435: Murder Has Two Faces: Motherhood Interrupted - True Crime Obsessed

Summary5 min read

True Crime Obsessed – Episode 435: Murder Has Two Faces: Motherhood Interrupted

Release Date: June 12, 2025

Overview

In Episode 435 of True Crime Obsessed, titled "Murder Has Two Faces: Motherhood Interrupted," the hosts delve into the harrowing case of Evelyn Hernandez, a 24-year-old expectant mother who vanished along with her five-year-old son, Alex, from San Francisco. This episode juxtaposes Evelyn's case with the widely publicized disappearance of Laci Peterson, highlighting significant disparities in media coverage and investigative efforts due to race and socioeconomic status.

Introduction to the Case

Julian Benavalli opens the discussion by drawing parallels between the podcast’s new series title and Barbara Streisand's movie, emphasizing the dual narratives in true crime stories:

"The entire time I was watching this, I was thinking about Natalie Grillo. Because it's called Murder has Two Faces. And it made me think of the Barbra Streisand movie, the Mirror has Two Faces." (00:00)

Myra Escobar expresses enthusiasm for the series, underlining the importance of shedding light on lesser-known cases:

"I can not stop raving about it because it's about cases that happened during the same time as another famous case that we all know about." (01:50)

Evelyn Hernandez’s Background

Evelyn Hernandez immigrated to San Francisco from El Salvador, escaping violence in her home country. She formed a close bond with Myra Escobar, her best friend from high school who also immigrated, this time from Guatemala. Their shared experiences in the Mission district, a neighborhood fraught with challenges, set the stage for Evelyn's struggles and eventual disappearance.

Challenges Faced Due to Language Barriers

A critical aspect of Evelyn's case is the language barrier faced by her sister, Raina, who is deaf and communicates through American Sign Language (ASL). This double barrier—translating from Spanish to English to ASL—hindered effective communication with law enforcement, as highlighted by Professor Danielle, a criminology expert:

"There's no way that Raina was able to communicate clearly and effectively with the police." (15:27)

Raina shares her struggles:

"I was really shy at first and embarrassed. My sister Evelyn, she learned to sign for me. She learned to communicate in ASL and sign language." (10:21)

Comparison with Laci Peterson Case

The episode meticulously compares Evelyn Hernandez's disappearance to that of Laci Peterson, noting striking similarities:

Both women were young, intelligent, and pregnant.
Evelyn's case received minimal media attention despite being as distressing as Laci’s.

Leanne Melendez, a local ABC reporter, laments the lack of coverage for Evelyn’s case:

"As a Latina, I remember in the newsroom being outraged that the Evelyn Hernandez case had not received the kind of attention that it really deserved." (21:00)

In contrast, Laci Peterson's disappearance was extensively covered, saturating media outlets and keeping the case in the public eye, unlike Evelyn's.

Investigation and Suspect: Herman

The primary suspect in Evelyn's disappearance is Herman, Evelyn’s boyfriend and a limo driver. Several red flags emerge:

Evelyn had withdrawn emotionally before her disappearance.
Herman was married, adding complexity to his motives.
Evelyn's wallet was found near Herman's workplace, suggesting a possible connection.

Myra Escobar discusses the suspicious circumstances surrounding the wallet's discovery:

"Absolutly messy marks suggestive of foul play, yet the case was quickly handed over to homicide without thorough investigation." (25:34)

Holly, an investigator, admits limitations in the initial response:

"There wasn't much information, and we quickly moved on." (21:00)

Media Representation and Racial Disparities

The podcast critically examines the concept of Missing White Woman Syndrome, where cases involving white women receive disproportionate media attention compared to women of color. This disparity not only affects public awareness but also impacts the resources allocated for investigations.

Amara, a podcaster, emphasizes the necessity for equal representation:

"Each one of us has a responsibility to be the voice for those people who are underserved." (42:41)

Ongoing Search and Unresolved Questions

Despite Evelyn’s remains being found in the San Francisco Bay, her five-year-old son, Alex, and her unborn child, Fernando, remain missing. The lack of closure intensifies the pain for the family and highlights systemic failures in addressing such cases.

Raina poignantly states:

"I'm saving his toys all waiting for him." (47:53)

Calls to Action and Community Involvement

The hosts urge listeners to take proactive steps in supporting the search for Evelyn and her children:

"If you have any information about Evelyn's case, please call 1-415-575-4444." (49:12)

They also stress the importance of diverse representation in media and law enforcement to ensure all communities receive equitable attention and support.

Conclusion

This episode underscores the grim reality of how race and language barriers can influence the visibility and resolution of true crime cases. Through heartfelt discussions and expert insights, True Crime Obsessed sheds light on Evelyn Hernandez’s tragic story, advocating for justice and greater media responsibility.

Notable Quotes

Julian Benavalli (07:00): "It's so needed. Ronnie, thank you so much. We can't get over it."
Myra Escobar (15:56): "I cannot stress enough what this series is doing to have Raina here as such a major storyteller."
Holly (21:00): "We were not pushing police as we did with Laci Peterson."
Raina (47:53): "Alex's and Evelyn's things that I've saved. I have his toys all waiting for him."
Amara (42:41): "Each one of us has a responsibility to be the voice for those people who are underserved."

Resources and Further Listening

Murder Has Two Faces Series on Hulu: "Motherhood Interrupted" – This episode is the first installment in the series focusing on Evelyn Hernandez's case.
Book Club: Join the podcast’s book club via the Facebook group by filling out the featured Google form.
Patreon: Support the podcast and gain access to bonus episodes, including monthly drag bingo hosted by the team.

Final Thoughts

"Murder Has Two Faces: Motherhood Interrupted" is a poignant exploration of a missing person case overshadowed by systemic biases. True Crime Obsessed not only recounts Evelyn Hernandez’s story but also challenges listeners to reflect on societal inequalities that dictate which voices are heard and which are silenced.

If you have any information regarding Evelyn Hernandez’s disappearance, please reach out to the San Francisco Police Department at 1-415-575-4444.

Note: This summary excludes advertisements, intros, outros, and non-content sections as per the instructions.

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Transcript635 lines

[00:00]
Julian Benavalli
The entire time I was watching this, I was thinking about Natalie Grillo. Because it's called Murder has Two Faces. And it made me think of the Barbra Streisand movie, the Mirror has Two Faces.
[00:08]
Patrick Hines
The mirror.
[00:08]
Myra Escobar
Yeah.
[00:08]
Julian Benavalli
And I can't think about Barbara and not think about Natalie Grillo is really all I'm saying here.
[00:12]
Myra Escobar
We love Natalie.
[00:13]
Julian Benavalli
I know. We love Barbara. I guess. Hi, Julian Benavalli.
[00:24]
Myra Escobar
Hi, Patrick Hines.
[00:24]
Julian Benavalli
Fam. We got a book club. You should join it because we got like several hundred people in it.
[00:28]
Myra Escobar
Yes.
[00:29]
Julian Benavalli
To join the book club, all you gotta do is go to the Facebook group. There's a feature featured post. You fill out a Google form. It takes literally eight seconds.
[00:35]
Myra Escobar
Yeah. And then everyone's like reading true crime ebooks and voting on the next book. And then you meet up and talk about it online. It's very sweet.
[00:43]
Julian Benavalli
If you can't make it to the meeting, you can just have the chat in the Facebook group. You should also join our Patreon. Who knows when you're gonna hear this, but God knows in the real world. We just did our monthly drag bingo last night.
[00:53]
Myra Escobar
Yes. Very fun as usual.
[00:54]
Julian Benavalli
It's. So we do a monthly drag bingo with the amazing Schwa. It's at the $5 tier on Patreon. And then beyond that, we've got over 450 full ad free bonus episodes.
[01:03]
Myra Escobar
Yeah, we just finish Fox Hollow Murders on Hulu. We just started A Body in the Snow.
[01:07]
Julian Benavalli
That's The Karen Reed 1.
[01:09]
Myra Escobar
First trial of Karen Reid. I'm so tired.
[01:11]
Julian Benavalli
Are you? Are you following it daily?
[01:13]
Myra Escobar
Yes. Or not. Because today we're off. No trial today, no trial tomorrow. Everyone will see us on Tuesday.
[01:19]
Julian Benavalli
Everyone's on vacation.
[01:20]
Myra Escobar
Bev can't wait to get out of there. Talk about exhaust. All she does is sigh.
[01:25]
Julian Benavalli
That's the judge side.
[01:29]
Myra Escobar
Some of us showed up to work today. Girl.
[01:31]
Julian Benavalli
Get it together patreon.com obsessed or just click on the link in the show notes to this episode. What are we talking about today?
[01:39]
Myra Escobar
So, hi, this is one of our bonus episodes. I want to give a shout out. So this is a series called Murder Has Two Faces. This is the first episode. It's called Motherhood Interrupted. I want to shout out Ronnie, who's an amazing TCO listener who dropped the series in the discord.
[01:51]
Julian Benavalli
Oh, shit.
[01:51]
Myra Escobar
And I can not stop raving about it because it's about cases that happened during the same time as another famous case that we all know about.
[01:58]
Julian Benavalli
So it's like a lesser known case that happened at the Same time as a famous case.
[02:01]
Myra Escobar
Right. Like the white woman case got covered and then the woman of color did not. And so it's a whole series. It's so needed. Ronnie, thank you so much. We can't get over it.
[02:08]
Julian Benavalli
It's so good.
[02:08]
Myra Escobar
We need this good so badly. 24 year old Evelyn Hernandez of San.
[02:14]
Julian Benavalli
Francisco was eight months pregnant when she.
[02:17]
Myra Escobar
Vanished, along with her five year old son, Alex.
[02:20]
Leanne Melendez
Even in her own city, Evelyn's case received hardly any publicity. And yet within months, on this side of the bay, in the same body of water, another young pregnant woman disappears. The cases were so similar in nature and yet were worlds. AP.
[02:40]
Amara
When you say the name Evelyn Hernandez, very few people remember the case. When you say Lacey Peterson, it's a name that everybody knows.
[02:49]
Patrick Hines
Please, please let her go.
[02:51]
Myra Escobar
Bring her back. We want her back.
[02:54]
Twiggy
I wanted to believe that if they solve Lacey's case, we will know what happened to Evelyn and what happened to Alex and her baby boy as well. But there were no answers.
[03:08]
Julian Benavalli
I love how this opens. We get this on screen text. It sums up what this series is in a nutshell. It says, this is a story of two crimes. Two young women, both expectant mothers, about to bring new life into the world. Within a year, both vanish without a trace. One woman, Laci Peterson, is a household name. And it has a picture of Lacy. And then the picture of Lacy sort of goes away and it says the second woman is not. And her case remains open. Her name is Evelyn Hernandez. And then like, Evelyn's picture sort of like takes over the whole screen. And it really is a beautiful setup to what we're about to see.
[03:40]
Myra Escobar
Yes. So Robin Roberts is our host.
[03:42]
Julian Benavalli
I love her.
[03:43]
Myra Escobar
She's great. So we start with Myra Escobar, who's Evelyn's best friend. They met in high school.
[03:47]
Raina
Yeah.
[03:48]
Myra Escobar
They both immigrated to San Francisco about the same time. Evelyn is from El Salvador and Myra is from Guatemala.
[03:53]
Julian Benavalli
Yeah. Both families moved to the Mission district of San Francisco. And like, we know the Mission district was like, not a safe area. And we'll get more into that in a little bit. But like, it looks so beautiful now. Every building they were showing, I was like, damn, San Francisco. Like, somebody did a good job with it, at the very least. The murals we're looking at, the murals are gorge.
[04:11]
Myra Escobar
But Myra, like, talks about her experience having this new life in a new place, her experience as an immigrant, and how she describes, like, not the best part of town.
[04:19]
Julian Benavalli
I love what Robyn sits down with her and we like, at the beginning of her interview, I said, I love this so much. And I don't think we've ever seen this before. The first thing Robyn says to Myra is, oh, I'm gonna get emotional. She says, thank you for this opportunity to get to know Evelyn.
[04:33]
Myra Escobar
I think this series for many reasons, and we'll get into someone else we're gonna meet. And I think it's doing really important things in this space. I am kind of obsessed with it.
[04:42]
Julian Benavalli
I just couldn't believe that in the hundreds and hundreds of documentaries we covered, no interviewer has ever said to the traumatized survivor, family or friend person, like, thank you so much for letting us get to know this person better. It's really beautiful through your interview. Like, it was so, so, so simple and so elegantly done.
[05:02]
Myra Escobar
Yeah, it's really moving.
[05:03]
Julian Benavalli
Yeah.
[05:06]
Myra Escobar
Travel down the road.
[05:07]
Julian Benavalli
Back again, girl. Remember the crazy cat cult?
[05:10]
Myra Escobar
Yes.
[05:10]
Julian Benavalli
They would have. Really. From one of today's sponsors, Pretty Litter.
[05:14]
Myra Escobar
I mean, seriously, the doomsday cat calls.
[05:16]
Julian Benavalli
It'S all I could think about during that entire episode.
[05:18]
Myra Escobar
I know, because we'll get to the.
[05:19]
Julian Benavalli
Health indicator in just a second. But Pretty Litter ships for free right to their doors. It's non toxic, pet safe and household friendly. Plus it's low dust, controls odor, and lasts up to one month. All those lesbians really could have used this.
[05:30]
Myra Escobar
Here's the thing. If you have a cat, which I love, my best friend Ashley has cat. 30 cats or 30 cats, no matter the cat.
[05:36]
Raina
Yeah.
[05:36]
Myra Escobar
If you don't use Pretty Litter, your house probably smells and you're just nose blind to the litter. And that's totally fine. But that's why we love Pretty Litter. Because the low dust, it's not like, like scampered all around your apartment. And the odor control is like the number one stunner here.
[05:48]
Julian Benavalli
Correct. Now the health indicator, this is the big, big thing. In addition to your house not stinking because your cat can't talk to you unless you're like Rose Nylands.
[05:56]
Myra Escobar
Not yet.
[05:56]
Julian Benavalli
You know what I mean?
[05:57]
Myra Escobar
Not yet.
[05:58]
Julian Benavalli
So the thing is, when the cat uses the litter box, if the litter turns a different color, you know, it's time to take your cat to the vet. Cause there could be something wrong. Pretty Litter is out here saving lives every day.
[06:07]
Myra Escobar
It's detecting abnormalities in your cat's urine. Okay.
[06:10]
Julian Benavalli
I mean, it's. Thank you, Pretty Litter.
[06:11]
Myra Escobar
Serious business.
[06:12]
Julian Benavalli
So fam, right now, save 20% on your first order and get a free cat toy at prettylitter.com TCO that's prettylitter.com.
[06:20]
Myra Escobar
TCO to save 20% on your first order and get a free cat toy. Prettylitter.com TCO Pretty Litter cannot detect every feline health issue or prevent or diagnose diseases.
[06:30]
Julian Benavalli
A diagnosis can only come from a licensed veterinarian. Terms and conditions apply. C site for details. Also, that cat cult is still in existence. They should use the promo code.
[06:38]
Myra Escobar
They should go away, but everyone else.
[06:41]
Julian Benavalli
Should use the promo code. No, you're right. You're right. I strike it from the record.
[06:46]
Myra Escobar
So Myra tells us about Evelyn. She had this light around her. She was charismatic. Myra says she wanted to feel that she was important.
[06:53]
Julian Benavalli
Yeah. We meet Bertha, who was Evelyn's drama teacher at the youth center. I just love this job for this woman.
[06:58]
Myra Escobar
I know.
[06:59]
Julian Benavalli
She seems. Bertha just seems awesome. She's like, I'm gonna go and work at the youth center and teach drama. Hell yes. We see video of whatever the play was. Y. I don't know if she was a two show day Liesl like you were, but I don't know.
[07:12]
Myra Escobar
Who knows? And what Berta is saying is that, like, the kids of needed this because.
[07:17]
Julian Benavalli
She explains that all kids need drama club.
[07:20]
Myra Escobar
All kids need drama club. But she was saying that, like, I've.
[07:22]
Twiggy
Known Evelyn since we immigrated to San Francisco. We arrived around the same time. She was from El Salvador. I'm from Guatemala. When we were younger, this used to be home.
[07:37]
Myra Escobar
Evelyn was escaping the violence in El Salvador, so, like, she had to leave for her safety. So then she comes to this unfamiliar place and, like, finding that community with Berta and all the kids and, like, making art and, like, doing drama and like, that was this, like, really beautiful thing.
[07:51]
Julian Benavalli
Myra says, you know, I imagine when they were leaving their home countries and they were coming to this magical land of San Francisco, Myra goes, we dreamed of San Francisco being exciting, luxurious place. And like, any city, that's not really what you're going to find.
[08:04]
Myra Escobar
Yeah. She says, like, it was dangerous to be out there. And so they sort of went from one unsettling place to another.
[08:11]
Julian Benavalli
I mean, you know, lots of poverty, crime, at least a mostly stable government, I guess, at one point here in the United. Yeah.
[08:17]
Myra Escobar
Well.
[08:20]
Julian Benavalli
Are we already in trouble?
[08:21]
Myra Escobar
Ouch. Hurts me. It hurts me to think about it because I know it's real.
[08:26]
Julian Benavalli
I know.
[08:26]
Myra Escobar
Do you know what I mean? I'm not like, I don't have my head in the sand, but it's kind of like, oh, that's like, yeah, that's what's happening. Okay. I want to talk about Raina. Raina is Evelyn's sister Raina, is deaf, and she's speaking American Sign Language. Someone's doing a voiceover for her. I cannot tell you how important this is.
[08:40]
Raina
Yeah.
[08:41]
Myra Escobar
I cannot stress enough what this series is doing to have Raina here as such a major storyteller telling us her experience using asl. I took ASL in college.
[08:50]
Julian Benavalli
Oh, you did?
[08:51]
Myra Escobar
I loved it. I just think it's fantastic. Hearing issues run in my family, so this is, like, an important thing.
[08:56]
Julian Benavalli
Oh, wow.
[08:57]
Myra Escobar
But to see that kind of representation of Reina sitting here and, like, it's such a game changer, and it actually has to do with maybe why the story wasn't told as much.
[09:06]
Julian Benavalli
No question.
[09:08]
Myra Escobar
I just love it.
[09:08]
Julian Benavalli
I wanted to say that at Emerson, where I went to college, we had a club called Hands On Experience, where they were mostly hearing people, but they were learning sign language, and they would do. They would, like, sign songs. Like, they would, like. They would perform signing songs. It was so amazing to watch.
[09:25]
Myra Escobar
Yeah. It's just, like. It's just one of those things that just is important to me, even though I don't speak it, and it's not. But just to see this representation of Raina and having her be such a major storyteller here, I think is a game changer.
[09:36]
Julian Benavalli
I will also say, every time I see somebody speaking American Sign Language, I feel like I want to learn that language more than I've ever wanted to learn any other language.
[09:44]
Myra Escobar
It's really. It's fascinating. It's beautiful. It feels good to do.
[09:48]
Julian Benavalli
Yeah.
[09:49]
Myra Escobar
And I unfortunately just never kept up with it, so it's my fault. I don't speak it. But it was, like, a course I was able to take as an elective, and I love it. I loved it.
[09:59]
Julian Benavalli
So Raina describes the family came to San Francisco when she was 11. And she says, like, she was overwhelmed. And she says, I didn't have language.
[10:08]
Patrick Hines
I was really shy at first and embarrassed. My sister Evelyn, she learned to sign for me. She learned to communicate in ASL and sign language.
[10:21]
Julian Benavalli
Evelyn learned to communicate in ASL so she could communicate with her sister because.
[10:26]
Myra Escobar
Reyna says she was really shy, and she was embarrassed. And so Evelyn was like, girl, I got you. And then, like, helped Reina communicate and just also be seen.
[10:34]
Raina
Yes.
[10:35]
Myra Escobar
You know, and just, like.
[10:36]
Julian Benavalli
And she loved her sister, and she wanted to talk to her, and, like, she wanted to make the world bigger for her sister.
[10:41]
Myra Escobar
Yeah. So Reyna says that Evelyn fought with their mom a lot. Their mom was. Was super strict, and Evelyn was, you know, a Rebellious teenager.
[10:48]
Julian Benavalli
Yeah.
[10:48]
Myra Escobar
And so When Evelyn was 16, she left home and she pretty much moved in with BFF Myra.
[10:53]
Julian Benavalli
It just. Stories like that just break my heart. I know, it really, it makes me so sad. And I'm sure everyone was doing the best they could, but like a 16 year old going out on their own, it's it. I knew a girl in high school who's had that story, who was living on her own, paying rent with her, that we were. Worked. She, I mean, she was this amazing woman and she's doing fine now. Not fine, she's doing. She's thriving now, but she. We worked together at the grocery store and she had to move out because of her parents struggles with addiction when she was 16 and got her own place and was paying her own rent based on the grocery store job that we both had. And like when kids have to grow up so fast, it just breaks my heart.
[11:31]
Myra Escobar
I know it's tough. And Myra says like she always had a place to stay. She was always family.
[11:35]
Raina
Yes.
[11:36]
Myra Escobar
And so Evelyn gets pregnant at like 16 or 17 years old. She is very happy, but also terrified, of course.
[11:42]
Julian Benavalli
And her son is Alex. And Myra is saying when Alex came, he changed Evelyn's whole life. And she knew that the most important thing she could do in the world at that time was be a good mom for Alex.
[11:54]
Myra Escobar
Right. And so Evelyn was a single mom at 17 years old.
[11:57]
Twiggy
It was really hard for her to be a single mom. So from the beginning, she had multiple jobs just to make ends meet. And the moment that she was able to make enough to rent a room, she did that. She wanted to create stability for Alex.
[12:16]
Julian Benavalli
She was saving and saving and saving. And as soon as she had enough money to rent a room, like a. Rent a room in somebody else's house, but to like have her own place for her and her kids, she did it.
[12:24]
Myra Escobar
Yeah.
[12:24]
Julian Benavalli
Which is incredible.
[12:26]
Myra Escobar
Yeah. So we meet Danielle, who's a professor of criminology, and also Amara, who is a podcaster. She makes the podcast Black Girl Gone, a true crime podcast. So they are here to tell us about the media and the publicity surrounding the Lacy Peterson case and specifically missing white woman syndrome.
[12:41]
Julian Benavalli
Yeah. And so Danielle is describing Lacy Peterson Peterson and saying that like, Leci Peterson was the white woman next door and that people were really drawn to that story for that reason.
[12:51]
Myra Escobar
And they say like, when you're not white, you just like, oh, she made bad decisions. But white women are seen as like they were, are 100% totally innocent, the girl next door.
[12:59]
Julian Benavalli
And they need our protection that's the. That's the feeling. But when a person of color, when it's a not white woman, goes missing or something bad happens, she must have been living a high risk lifestyle. Right.
[13:08]
Myra Escobar
What are the circumstances she in somehow.
[13:10]
Julian Benavalli
In some way contributed to what happened to her.
[13:13]
Myra Escobar
And that's really magnified here because Lacey and Evelyn did have similarities. They were young, they were pretty smart, they were pregnant. But Evelyn was an immigrant, and she was a single mom. And so, like our experts here are saying, which meant that she didn't have a voice.
[13:25]
Julian Benavalli
Yes, and we'll get more into it, obviously, but like, the media was the voice for Lacy Peterson, you know. So Myra says that she hadn't seen Evelyn for a few weeks when Evelyn went missing. Evelyn had been dating somebody new, and Evelyn had wanted to introduce this guy to the family. So this guy's name is Herman, and he was the father of the baby that Evelyn was then pregnant with.
[13:46]
Myra Escobar
Right. So Evelyn is pregnant again.
[13:48]
Raina
Yes.
[13:48]
Myra Escobar
This guy's older than her, had a stable job.
[13:50]
Julian Benavalli
But Evelyn seemed happy, like, nobody really knows this guy. She's pregnant for a second time. We're gonna learn more about how she's pulling away from her friends and family a little bit, but at the same time, she seemed pretty happy.
[14:00]
Myra Escobar
So it's May 3, 2002, two days since Evelyn was last seen. Raina, her sister, is throwing a baby shower for her.
[14:06]
Patrick Hines
The baby shower, it was planned for one o' clock, and so I was waiting. Everybody there was waiting. You know, she hadn't shown up to her own baby shower. We were all confused. We thought maybe she'd given birth suddenly.
[14:24]
Myra Escobar
Did she go into labor maybe, and then couldn't call any of us? Like, what are the reasons she wouldn't show up? Something crazy must have happened.
[14:31]
Julian Benavalli
Well, so Reina runs down to the hospital where Evelyn will eventually be giving birth. And she goes in and sees that there is somebody on, like, the call sheet or whatever that has in the maternity ward that their last name. And she thinks it must be Evelyn, but it isn't. And she cannot figure out, like, what the hell is going on here. Not only where is she, where is Alex, her son, her five year old?
[14:52]
Myra Escobar
So let's talk about this language barrier, because Raina does not speak English. She speaks asl.
[14:56]
Raina
Yes.
[14:56]
Myra Escobar
So Professor Danielle says this made me crazy. She says a lot of police departments do have an ASL interpreter, but they're not always available. Just find someone.
[15:05]
Julian Benavalli
Yeah. And I was thinking, tell me if I'm getting this wrong, but it seems like A double language barrier.
[15:10]
Myra Escobar
It is that, yes, because it's asl.
[15:12]
Julian Benavalli
But also, like, in Raina's own mind, she's still translating from Spanish to English, then to into American Sign Language. Like, that is a double language barrier.
[15:22]
Myra Escobar
And Professor Danielle says there's no way that Raina was able to communicate clearly and effectively with the police.
[15:27]
Julian Benavalli
And I had so many questions about, like, but wait a second. Like, isn't she surrounded by all of her people? Because the baby shower supposed to be that day. Aren't they all talking to the police at the same time?
[15:35]
Myra Escobar
Well, the point is that the police didn't do anything to help make that happen.
[15:38]
Holly
Right.
[15:39]
Myra Escobar
And a very, very valuable time in the case, which is right now.
[15:42]
Julian Benavalli
And we're going to see in the end, when everybody is asked what have been done differently. More resources at the beginning. More resources at the beginning.
[15:50]
Myra Escobar
Don't, like, sometimes have an ASL interpreter? Not going to always have them.
[15:54]
Julian Benavalli
Exactly.
[15:54]
Myra Escobar
Or have access to one where you can pick up a phone?
[15:57]
Julian Benavalli
Maybe.
[15:57]
Myra Escobar
Maybe it's not something where someone would need a desk to show up to work there every day, but have resources and have a piece of paper with a couple of phone numbers on it.
[16:05]
Holly
Right.
[16:05]
Myra Escobar
I mean, like, or email, where you can reach out to people for help in the situation.
[16:10]
Julian Benavalli
I've literally, I don't think ever really thought about this before. Like, the basic need to be able to communicate. Like, the circumstances of this person going. Going missing and not being able to do it. Like, I imagine you're in a foreign country, you're in El Salvador and your sister goes missing, and you've got to go to the El Salvadorian cops and you don't speak Spanish. Like, that's what Raina is up against here.
[16:29]
Myra Escobar
And they're not helping her.
[16:30]
Holly
Right.
[16:30]
Myra Escobar
So Raina says she's begging the police. She's showing them pictures of Evelyn and Alex. She's telling them, making it very clear that Evelyn is pregnant now.
[16:38]
Raina
Yes.
[16:38]
Julian Benavalli
And pictures of Alex also. Alex is missing.
[16:40]
Myra Escobar
Alex is missing. But the thing is, though, on top of it, because we hear this all the time, that BFF Myra's mother actually told her, don't call the people cops because they're not going to help anyway. They're probably going to harass us all. We're immigrants, like, they don't give a shit anyway, so don't bring cops into this world if they're just not going to be helpful.
[16:55]
Julian Benavalli
So then it's like, what? Then somebody goes missing and that's just that, like, that's so Terrifying because the.
[17:00]
Myra Escobar
Cops made it that way, right?
[17:01]
Julian Benavalli
Yeah.
[17:02]
Myra Escobar
Yeah. So we're living it in this case because Evelyn's friends and family were basically told like, just keep waiting.
[17:06]
Julian Benavalli
Yeah.
[17:08]
Myra Escobar
Travel down the road.
[17:10]
Julian Benavalli
Back again, girl. Green light is back. Look. Greenlight is a debit card and money app made for families that helps kids learn to save, invest and spend wisely. I tell you, we were just at an event for Daisy School. I told like four parents about it. They all signed up.
[17:24]
Myra Escobar
Nice.
[17:25]
Julian Benavalli
I mean, cuz it's all about this opportunity to teach your kids about like financial responsibility. It really is an amazing thing. I love it so much.
[17:31]
Myra Escobar
Yeah. So parents can send money to their kids or keep an eye on their kids spending and saving. It's all about like demystifying the financial life that we all have to lead, unfortunately.
[17:40]
Julian Benavalli
Totally. It's all about kids and teens building money, confidence and skills in a fun, accessible way. Like with games. They have games that help with all of this.
[17:48]
Myra Escobar
And the Greenlight app also includes a chores feature.
[17:50]
Julian Benavalli
That's what we use.
[17:51]
Myra Escobar
So you can set up like a one time or recurring chores. You can customize it all to your family and to your household and you can reward your kids with allowance for a job well done.
[17:58]
Julian Benavalli
Can I tell you, one of Daisy's chores is putting the silverware away from the dishwasher. And she's so used to this chores feature that she saw me just doing it the other day and she ran over and got upset.
[18:07]
Myra Escobar
Don't steal my money.
[18:07]
Julian Benavalli
No, I basically robbed my kid in the kitchen.
[18:10]
Myra Escobar
Basically. But she know, the point is she knows.
[18:13]
Julian Benavalli
She knows exactly. Exactly. Green light is easy. It's a convenient way for parents to raise financial naturally smart kids and families to navigate life together. I love on the weekends, sitting down with Daisy, looking at the Greenlight app, seeing how much money she has and deciding what she wants to spend it on. I love it, love it, love it.
[18:26]
Myra Escobar
You're just like forming good habits early, you know, it's not scary. Look, I used to be that way too. Like I'm not gonna look at the account because if I don't see it, I don't. You know, it can be very scary. And then they took a credit card away from me so I couldn't use green Light.
[18:39]
Julian Benavalli
Even from you.
[18:40]
Myra Escobar
Oh, yeah. I was too scared to.
[18:41]
Julian Benavalli
Yeah, it happens. Fam. Start your risk free Greenlight trial today.
[18:45]
Myra Escobar
At greenlight.com TCO that's greenlight.com TCO to get started.
[18:50]
Julian Benavalli
Greenlight.com TCO do it.
[18:52]
Myra Escobar
Do it.
[18:53]
Julian Benavalli
Oh, and you can customize a debit card and get, like, your puppy or whatever on it. Cute.
[18:56]
Raina
Yeah.
[18:56]
Myra Escobar
Love it. Okay. Holly from the sfpd. Oh, my God, do I have words for you. I know she was assigned to Evelyn's case, and she says it's a tricky.
[19:08]
Bobby
Thing with missing persons, with adults, because adults do have a right to go missing, to go places and not tell people where they are.
[19:17]
Myra Escobar
Adults have a right to go missing. Holly.
[19:19]
Julian Benavalli
I know.
[19:19]
Myra Escobar
Why would you even need to say that? Like, she eventually is like, oh, we were concerned a little bit, but, like, why?
[19:24]
Julian Benavalli
She was nine months pregnant.
[19:25]
Myra Escobar
Why give any weight to this idea that Evelyn just bailed? It's such a dangerous narrative when I.
[19:32]
Julian Benavalli
Think about, you know, it's like the Sarah attorney thing that she said that she was working on, that, like, if somebody calls and says that somebody's missing, the cops have to come out and at least check it out, right?
[19:40]
Myra Escobar
Yes.
[19:40]
Julian Benavalli
And at least make a report to do something about this. The cops being able to just say, she's an adult. She can go missing if she wants to. There's got to be some law on the books that's like, you have to take a report whenever that call is called in.
[19:54]
Myra Escobar
And even for Holly to say it now.
[19:56]
Julian Benavalli
I know.
[19:56]
Myra Escobar
That's what I mean.
[19:57]
Julian Benavalli
Like, she's also going to say that. Like, I was really worried about her, but we didn't do anything wrong in the beginning. She's going to say that eventually.
[20:02]
Myra Escobar
She. I have so many things to say to her. Because on the other side of it, the women in this community are coming together. They're putting up posters. They're going around looking for who's.
[20:11]
Julian Benavalli
Raise your hand if you're shocked.
[20:12]
Myra Escobar
Like, they're the ones trying to get on the news. They're trying to be. Be seen and heard and listened to and make their voices heard, but they didn't even know where to start. And Myra says to Robin Roberts, like, we didn't even know what questions to ask.
[20:23]
Raina
Yeah.
[20:24]
Myra Escobar
Like, we're just panicking and no one is listening to us. And we have this language barrier, and they're looking down at us because they're immigrants and she's pregnant and unwe or whatever, all these stupid fucking tropes and stereotypes. So Myra is like, what do we even do? Like, what. How can we be the most helpful here?
[20:38]
Holly
Right?
[20:38]
Julian Benavalli
And then we meet Leanne Melendez, who's a local ABC reporter then and now, 1994 to now. And she's saying that, like, she was there. She was covering this case. And she said, on the first day, we definitely did not give this case enough attention. Police held a small press conference where there wasn't much information. She says, we probably interviewed a few of her friends or something and then we quickly moved on.
[21:01]
Amara
And she says, as a Latina, I remember in the newsroom being outraged that the Evelyn Hernandez case had not received the kind of attention that it really deserved. She has a 5 year old child who's missing, she's pregnant. Why aren't we paying attention? We were not pushing police as we did with Laci Peterson.
[21:25]
Julian Benavalli
She remembers being outraged that the case wasn't getting the coverage that it deserved. And especially because this woman had a five year old son who was also missing. But like, you know, eventually Leigh Ann's gonna say, like, now there's more Latinas in the newsroom and we have more power and we're gonna make our voices hear. Back in the day, you get the sense Leanne was the only one there being like, we need to cover this. And nobody was listening to her.
[21:47]
Myra Escobar
No one. So now Evelyn is missing. Now a few months later, Lacy Peterson goes missing.
[21:53]
Raina
Yeah.
[21:53]
Myra Escobar
And Holly, adults are allowed to go missing. Pera from the sfd, she has the nerve to say, well, Evelyn's case haunts me. And she goes, you know, I wonder if there's things that could have been done differently. I don't think so.
[22:06]
Julian Benavalli
But no, we did a pretty great, great.
[22:08]
Myra Escobar
I. Holly, I'm going to list you about 10 coming up. Pay attention, please.
[22:12]
Julian Benavalli
So pay attention, police, because Leanne, the, the reporter we were just talking about was saying we were all over the Lacy Peterson story. Now, this is seven months after Evelyn.
[22:21]
Myra Escobar
Went missing, she said, with a lot of similarities.
[22:23]
Julian Benavalli
I mean, and, and, and they are going to get even more. Leanne says there was satellite truck after satellite truck. She said, we invaded Lacy Peterson's neighborhood and it really never went away. And like, the only difference is that Myra was a woman of color, not from this country.
[22:37]
Myra Escobar
Right.
[22:38]
Julian Benavalli
You know?
[22:38]
Myra Escobar
Yeah. That it's like, well, what were her circumstances? And, oh, that's kind of sketchy. But meanwhile, it's. The circumstances are the same. There's someone missing and so is a 5 year old, and she was pregnant.
[22:49]
Julian Benavalli
To put a very fine point on it, nobody is saying that Laci Peterson shouldn't have gotten all the coverage she got. It's the Gabby Petito thing. It's just that everybody deserves that kind of coverage. You know what I mean? And like with Myra's case, like with Lacy Peterson, she's pregnant, that is absolutely fucking terrifying. Spare no expense. Find this woman. But with Myra, she was pregnant and her other son was missing. There's another missing person connected to. You know what I mean? It's like. I mean, I'm looking at you as though you don't get it. I know you do. It's just I always think about what it must have felt like to be Reina, to be the family that, like, there's nothing you can do to make people care.
[23:24]
Myra Escobar
Right. You can't even communicate in a way that is productive because the cops are not really letting you.
[23:30]
Holly
Right.
[23:31]
Myra Escobar
They didn't say, can you hold tight. We'll find an ASL interpreter.
[23:34]
Holly
Right, right, right.
[23:34]
Raina
Yeah.
[23:35]
Myra Escobar
Even if it's Tom, Even if it's something like they weren't being helpful. It's like, oh, adults are allowed to go missing.
[23:40]
Julian Benavalli
Right.
[23:40]
Myra Escobar
It's not weird that she didn't show up to her own baby shower.
[23:43]
Julian Benavalli
We, you know, we hear this all the time. Adults are allowed to go missing now. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't remember ever hearing that about Lacy Peterson. Ever. No, I don't ever remember.
[23:52]
Myra Escobar
It was a tragedy from day one. As it should have been.
[23:54]
Julian Benavalli
Right? Like, a pregnant woman is missing, but.
[23:56]
Myra Escobar
It should have been with Evelyn, and that's the whole point, right?
[23:59]
Julian Benavalli
Yeah.
[23:59]
Myra Escobar
So Herman, the boyfriend.
[24:01]
Julian Benavalli
Okay, sorry, what's his name?
[24:03]
Myra Escobar
Herman. Which, if you're a good Herman, great. But this her Herman, we don't like.
[24:08]
Julian Benavalli
We don't like this Herman.
[24:09]
Myra Escobar
He told the cops he was at work. He drives limos, which is fine.
[24:13]
Julian Benavalli
It's got to be this guy.
[24:14]
Myra Escobar
It's definitely her.
[24:14]
Julian Benavalli
It's got to be Herman.
[24:15]
Myra Escobar
Well, because what happens is that he's.
[24:17]
Julian Benavalli
Like, oh, sorry, spoiler. You gotta be this guy.
[24:19]
Myra Escobar
The fucking boyfriend. Yeah, usually. And we'll get to why it's always the husband in a little bit.
[24:25]
Julian Benavalli
I don't know. That Scott Peterson makes some good points.
[24:31]
Myra Escobar
I love how they really, like, say it for the people in the back at the end of this.
[24:35]
Julian Benavalli
Yeah, yeah. So he says, oh, the thing about.
[24:38]
Myra Escobar
In Los Angeles, like, Herman says he's supposed spoken to Evelyn many times that day. And so the cops go to Evelyn's apartment, and they're like, everything looked fine. They just look like she'd be back later that day. I was like, so she left all of her belongings, but then she went missing and never showed up to her baby shower.
[24:52]
Julian Benavalli
Can we get an itemized? Like, what was. There was her cell phone there, was her purse there. Like, did it look like she. It can look like a struggle happened without, like, shit, being knocked over.
[25:01]
Myra Escobar
Well, her wallet wasn't there because we're about to find her wallet.
[25:04]
Holly
Right.
[25:04]
Myra Escobar
Evelyn's wallet was found 10 miles away from where she lived. It was found on the side of the road, like, near a canal. Near a body of water.
[25:10]
Raina
Yeah.
[25:11]
Myra Escobar
And she had two $20 bills in there and a check that was written, made out to her.
[25:16]
Raina
Yes.
[25:16]
Julian Benavalli
Holly, the investigator says at that point.
[25:19]
Bobby
There was no activity in her banking, no activity on her phone, no activity anywhere finding her wallet here. It was time to turn the case over to homicide.
[25:32]
Julian Benavalli
So it was time to turn the case over to Homicide.
[25:34]
Myra Escobar
Right.
[25:34]
Julian Benavalli
So Holly tells us the police called in cadaver dogs down to the canal where they found the wallet to see if it was possible that her body had been put in the canal, but there was no blood or any physical evidence at all. They don't. They don't tell us what the cadaver dogs found or didn't find.
[25:47]
Myra Escobar
Right.
[25:48]
Julian Benavalli
I'm assuming nothing.
[25:49]
Myra Escobar
But what's interesting, though, is that the wallet was found just a few blocks away from where the boyfriend worked.
[25:53]
Julian Benavalli
Right. That seems to be only interesting to you and me. Like, I know.
[25:56]
Myra Escobar
Oh, Holly missed. All adults are allowed to go missing parents.
[25:58]
Julian Benavalli
She doesn't give a. Holly goes in, like, stakes out this canal for a couple hours to see who's driving around there, what kind of traffic it gets, and she's like, it's only limo drivers. It's only limo drivers coming to the gas station that's right there to gas up. And then a couple blocks from there is where. Where Herman's Limo Company was.
[26:13]
Myra Escobar
Right.
[26:13]
Julian Benavalli
How sloppy do you have to be? Like, clearly, that wallet was put there. It didn't fall out of a thing. It didn't.
[26:19]
Myra Escobar
Or it was, like, thrown.
[26:20]
Holly
Right.
[26:20]
Julian Benavalli
And it's like, so Herman was driving to work and, like, tossed her into the canal. And then the wallet on the side of the road. Like, it feels like this was so sloppy that it was solvable. You know what I mean?
[26:31]
Myra Escobar
Absolutely. Again, in the very valuable early moments of someone going missing.
[26:36]
Raina
Yes.
[26:36]
Myra Escobar
When they could have been trying to communicate with the family, but they chose not to.
[26:39]
Julian Benavalli
But that's the whole. I mean, I know that we are screaming at the chorus. I know everybody agrees and knows this, but I'm just going to say it out loud anyway. The most crucial time in a missing person's case is, like, the first 48 hours. We all know that.
[26:50]
Myra Escobar
But that was a show called the First 48.
[26:52]
Julian Benavalli
The First 48. I actually had a friend who was a PA on that show.
[26:54]
Myra Escobar
Oh, my God.
[26:55]
Julian Benavalli
I know who's so cute. His name was Sean. He did coats at a restaurant I worked at.
[26:57]
Myra Escobar
I thought you were going to say he did coke. And I was like, no, no.
[27:00]
Julian Benavalli
But he had, like, that perfect floppy hair. Oh, my God. But that is the same window that the cops are going to say adults are allowed to go missing. Just give it a couple days. If she doesn't come back, then we'll take. It's like, wait, what? What?
[27:09]
Myra Escobar
Right?
[27:10]
Julian Benavalli
How are you not hearing yourselves?
[27:11]
Myra Escobar
And if they were talking to Evelyn's friends, like, I don' Twiggy, who says to us that a few months before her death, Evelyn started to withdraw. And Twiggy says, she goes, I did. It wasn't the Evelyn I knew. So Twiggy says that the relationship between Evelyn and her boyfriend, Herman, the limo driver, was not good.
[27:28]
Raina
Yeah.
[27:28]
Julian Benavalli
And also Myra tells us that, like, nobody ever got to know Herman. Like, either he was isolating Evelyn or Evelyn was isolating. No one really got to know him. Yeah, right.
[27:39]
Myra Escobar
And Reina, Evelyn's sister, said that, like, this guy was making a whole lot of promises and didn't live up to any of them. Like, he also didn't do anything to prepare for the baby.
[27:48]
Patrick Hines
Herman hadn't gotten any things for her for the baby. A stroller, diapers. And Evelyn was really sad that he was sort of pushing her away.
[28:03]
Myra Escobar
Not a stroller, not diapers. Like, nothing.
[28:05]
Julian Benavalli
It's almost like he had a secret family, almost.
[28:08]
Myra Escobar
And so, like, Raina says that he was kind of, like, pushing Evelyn away, and that was making her sad. And there was, like, a lot of strife in this relationship.
[28:16]
Julian Benavalli
And it's only after she goes missing that the friends and family learn that Herman is married.
[28:21]
Myra Escobar
She's fucking married.
[28:22]
Julian Benavalli
Now, here's the thing. Scott Peterson was married to Lacy, but in love with Amber or whatever, didn't want to have a kid. This is why he killed his wife. Like, my point is just. Herman, I hate to say it this way, but Evelyn is the secret. You know what I mean? He's married. He's got a wife. I think that he has kids with this. With the wife. Everything is pointing to, he killed her because he didn't want the family to find out about her.
[28:47]
Myra Escobar
Well, egg on both of our faces because he's, quote, a formal suspect.
[28:50]
Julian Benavalli
Isn't What?
[28:51]
Myra Escobar
Hey, Holly, Holly. Remember earlier when you said that you didn't think you could have done anything differently, Right? Looking at the married boyfriend who worked five feet from where Evelyn's wallet was found would have been a step in the right direction.
[29:01]
Julian Benavalli
How about that?
[29:01]
Myra Escobar
Please.
[29:02]
Julian Benavalli
I know.
[29:04]
Myra Escobar
Travel down the road.
[29:06]
Julian Benavalli
Back again, girl. This episode is brought to you by IQ Bar, our exclusive snack sponsor.
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Myra Escobar
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[29:25]
Myra Escobar
Yeah, well, for you too, because you're gluten free, right?
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Julian Benavalli
Correct.
[29:28]
Myra Escobar
So IQ bar is totally free from gluten, dairy, soy, GMOs, any artificial sweeteners. It's like a natural anytime snack. And they're also good. Like Mike uses it when he goes down to the treadmill for marathon training. They're just a perfect thing like oh great. Or even after a workout or like in the morning to kind of start your day. I love these things totally.
[29:44]
Julian Benavalli
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[29:56]
Myra Escobar
Yes, yes. They really have it all. I'm not even a coffee person, but I like. Okay, delicious.
[29:59]
Julian Benavalli
And can I tell you, the hydration mixes, we have them in a little cup in our pantry because I know I have to start the day with water. Who wants to actually do that? But I pour in the hydration mix and I have one every day now.
[30:08]
Myra Escobar
Especially now that it's getting hotter out. You really stay hydrated.
[30:11]
Julian Benavalli
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Myra Escobar
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[30:22]
Julian Benavalli
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[30:24]
Myra Escobar
That's TCO to 64,000.
[30:27]
Julian Benavalli
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[30:30]
Myra Escobar
Yeah, but really just enjoy those bars.
[30:32]
Julian Benavalli
And the hydration mixes and the coffee.
[30:34]
Myra Escobar
And, and, and Marcia, Marcia, Marcia. So, but unlike Scott Peterson, this guy was not in the public eye. Like he wasn't part of the story in the media because the cops weren't.
[30:46]
Julian Benavalli
Looking at him well, and, and they.
[30:48]
Myra Escobar
Say that he couldn't.
[30:49]
Holly
Right.
[30:50]
Julian Benavalli
And this is one of the reasons they're going to say that the Lacey Peterson case took off in a way that Evelyn's didn't. Now we know the real reason is because she was a brown woman not from this country. Like, we know, we know that. But the contributing factors were that in the Lacy Peterson case, they had a suspect. Right? Everyone in the public, everyone in the world thought that Scott did it. And the media was on his front porch at all times. There was a gen. A genuine fascination there in a way that Herman. Nobody in the media even knew his name.
[31:17]
Myra Escobar
So the cops talk to Herman's wife, and she says, I don't know what your talking about. He was working for the limo company. Then he came home, and then we watched tv and then we went to sleep.
[31:24]
Bobby
We asked his wife if she knew that Evelyn was expecting Herman's baby. And she really did not want to answer that. She was not going to say anything negative about Herman.
[31:38]
Myra Escobar
She wasn't going to ever say anything negative about Herman. Pay attention, Holly. Pay attention, Holly. That's weird. Holly.
[31:44]
Julian Benavalli
I was going to say, it feels like the wife was like, he was with me all night. And that was good enough for Holly and all the rest of the, like, if you guys could have put some of your investigative resources into just like really looking into this guy and that.
[31:57]
Myra Escobar
She, the wife, wouldn't even answer if she knew about Evelyn's existence.
[32:00]
Holly
Right.
[32:00]
Myra Escobar
Red flags, Holly. What is that? Six, seven, eight more things you could have done differently?
[32:03]
Julian Benavalli
I know, I know.
[32:04]
Myra Escobar
What are you talking about? The wife wouldn't acknowledge if she knew about Evelyn or not.
[32:11]
Holly
Right.
[32:11]
Myra Escobar
That's weird. And then she is the only alibi for this guy.
[32:15]
Holly
Right?
[32:15]
Julian Benavalli
Exactly.
[32:16]
Myra Escobar
And they just like, had cookies and milk at home.
[32:18]
Julian Benavalli
And like Holly even says they were never able to fully verify. Verify where Herman was every minute of the night. We'll go out and do it.
[32:24]
Myra Escobar
Right. You know, well, Herman gets a lawyer. And so all conversations with Herman come.
[32:28]
Julian Benavalli
To an end and like, series rap on Herman, like, that's it. We're done. Like, we're gonna find out at the end of this thing. The last time he was interviewed by the police was 2002.
[32:35]
Myra Escobar
Yeah.
[32:36]
Julian Benavalli
And this at 2022. And that was. And even that was too long for me. 2002.
[32:41]
Myra Escobar
And this series tried to contact him, but he didn't respond.
[32:44]
Julian Benavalli
Of course.
[32:44]
Myra Escobar
Of course he didn't. Because he got away with murder.
[32:45]
Julian Benavalli
Right, exactly.
[32:47]
Myra Escobar
So July 24, 2002, three months since Evelyn disappeared. Evelyn's remains have been discovered in the San Francisco Bay at the water's edge.
[32:55]
Julian Benavalli
Yeah. The family is like, truly devastated, and some of them are really surprised.
[32:59]
Myra Escobar
Well, the thing is, Alex, her five year old, is not with her.
[33:03]
Holly
Right.
[33:03]
Myra Escobar
Evelyn's baby is not with her. So her baby, she was, you know, like, about to give birth. The baby isn't there. And Alex, the five year old, is also not there. Where are they?
[33:12]
Julian Benavalli
So we don't get enough science on the unborn baby. We don't know if the body delivered the baby, when. Like, we don't know because what's not being said here is, is like, did somebody kidnap her and then steal the baby? Or did any number of. Any, any of the horrible things you can imagine, or did Herman just kill her with the baby still in her body and then throw her in the bay? And we don't know what happened because.
[33:36]
Myra Escobar
She was in a very advanced state of decomposition.
[33:39]
Leanne Melendez
Yeah, her body was in an advanced state of decomposition. Her legs were there, but both her arms were missing and her head was missing. And her baby was never found.
[33:49]
Myra Escobar
And Alex, the five year old, is still missing and the baby.
[33:52]
Raina
Yeah.
[33:53]
Myra Escobar
And the wallet is 10ft away from where the boyfriend worked.
[33:55]
Julian Benavalli
Yeah. And Myra says, like, once they found Evelyn, it seems to her like the conversation just stopped.
[34:00]
Myra Escobar
We just did this with her. Baumeister.
[34:02]
Julian Benavalli
Yes.
[34:02]
Myra Escobar
Oh, he's dead. So case closed, right?
[34:04]
Julian Benavalli
And it's like no one's looking for Alex.
[34:06]
Myra Escobar
No one's looking for Alex, you know.
[34:08]
Julian Benavalli
And no one's looking for the killer. It's like, well, they found Evelyn's remains and that was that or her baby.
[34:13]
Myra Escobar
Or her five year old old.
[34:14]
Raina
Yeah.
[34:15]
Myra Escobar
So April 14, 2003, nine months after Evelyn's body is found, the search for Lacy and Connor Peterson starts. And in that same body of water.
[34:23]
Raina
Yeah.
[34:24]
Myra Escobar
So we have Bobby here from the FBI dive team. He did both searches. So when Lacey was found, her head, hands and feet were missing. This is like. People are so fucking evil. I can't believe we're talking about two pregnant women who this happened to.
[34:37]
Julian Benavalli
I know.
[34:38]
Myra Escobar
Like, and to think about it feels out of body.
[34:40]
Julian Benavalli
I know.
[34:40]
Myra Escobar
It feels like I'm not actually here.
[34:42]
Julian Benavalli
Yeah. And. And like with Scott, we're gonna learn that there was some evidence that he made those anchors to anchor her body down. And when her body came up, like that's how the limbs were severed. Because I don't think we've ever discussed an idea of like Scott actually dismembering her like that. Right.
[34:57]
Myra Escobar
I don't think so. We haven't. I don't think it's come up on anything that we've covered. I mean, and sometimes like you're saying we haven't discussed the science in this episode necessarily, but like, I think it has to do with decomposition. In the water. And how.
[35:10]
Julian Benavalli
Right, and that's what I'm saying, because what's gonna happen is people on all sides of this are going to try to connect the cases. Right. And we'll get to that when we get to that. But the other thing that's like keeping the, the Peterson case in the news is that now Scott is arrested once they find Lacy's body. And it looks like he's been on the run. Remember this whole thing?
[35:29]
Myra Escobar
How can I forget?
[35:30]
Julian Benavalli
Bleached his hair. And he had $10,000 in cash. And he was in San Diego, like miles from the Mexican border.
[35:36]
Myra Escobar
Then he was also running from the press. But also the golf and the ID and the cash.
[35:39]
Julian Benavalli
Exactly. And so like, they're just like in this documentary, they're pointing out time and again the things contributing to the Peterson case, like staying fresh in the news.
[35:48]
Myra Escobar
Right. So now Scott Peterson's defense team is going to try to use Evelyn to prove Scott's innocent, which is so disgusting I can't even talk about.
[35:55]
Julian Benavalli
The thing is, I'll just say this here, like they want to say that these cases are connected. And in my mind, they are connected. They're connected by the fact that there was two men out there that wanted these women dead.
[36:03]
Myra Escobar
Yes.
[36:04]
Julian Benavalli
They're not connected by a satanic cult. Now, what this case should be teaching us is that this is real, that women, and we've been told this a.
[36:11]
Myra Escobar
Thousand times, homicide, is the number one cause of death in pregnant women.
[36:14]
Holly
Right.
[36:15]
Myra Escobar
Are you kidding?
[36:15]
Julian Benavalli
And like, it's so, so common that like it happened within miles of each other in San Francisco, within months of each other in these instances.
[36:23]
Myra Escobar
Right.
[36:23]
Julian Benavalli
You know, what I'm trying to say is it's not that these cases aren't connected. They're just not connected in the way that Mark fucking Garagos wants to say that they're connected.
[36:31]
Myra Escobar
It's the age old question. Why are men.
[36:32]
Holly
Right.
[36:33]
Julian Benavalli
Yes.
[36:33]
Myra Escobar
It all comes down to that.
[36:34]
Julian Benavalli
Yeah. But I really want to drive that point home that like everybody on the right side of history is like, no, these cases aren't connected. No, they are connected. They're connected by the evil fucking men who killed their pregnant. You know what I mean?
[36:45]
Myra Escobar
It's really dangerous, but I just want.
[36:47]
Julian Benavalli
To scream it from like the top of my. Like, the cases are connected.
[36:50]
Myra Escobar
They are connected the way you think.
[36:52]
Julian Benavalli
No, because there is an epidemic of men murdering their pregnant people.
[36:56]
Myra Escobar
Right.
[36:56]
Julian Benavalli
You know?
[36:56]
Myra Escobar
Right. That's all right. No, you're right. Well, Holly, the cop says that the defense team, Scott's defense team called her, and she says, they sort of pleaded with me. They're trying to get the cops to tie these two cases together.
[37:07]
Julian Benavalli
Can I say one more thing? Because the defense is trying. What, like, what you're saying? The defense is trying to bring these cases together. Together. Like Scott didn't kill Lacy because it also happened just a couple miles away in a very similar way. I think the prosecution could have used this case to say, no, evil men like this do exist and they kill their pregnant partners.
[37:22]
Myra Escobar
Yeah. You know, I think they did bring that up a little bit.
[37:25]
Julian Benavalli
I hope so, because it's like, maybe.
[37:27]
Myra Escobar
I could be wrong.
[37:27]
Julian Benavalli
It's. We want to live in a world where we believe that it's so rare. And that's why the Peterson case was in the news so much.
[37:32]
Myra Escobar
Happens all the time.
[37:32]
Julian Benavalli
Happens all the time.
[37:33]
Myra Escobar
All the time. So now the defense is blaming it on a satanic cult. Scott Peterson's legal team is trying to.
[37:39]
Patrick Hines
Shift blame to some murky Satanic.
[37:42]
Myra Escobar
They say Satanists are snatching pregnant women.
[37:46]
Bobby
They said there could be a satanic serial killer cutting the babies from the pregnant mothers from the.
[37:54]
Myra Escobar
Give me a fucking break. File number one. It's never Satanist.
[37:57]
Julian Benavalli
I'd love to sort of get my hands on that file.
[37:59]
Myra Escobar
I mean, she's dense. It's never Satanist in the woods.
[38:04]
Julian Benavalli
No.
[38:05]
Myra Escobar
Would you like to know why?
[38:06]
Julian Benavalli
Tell me.
[38:06]
Myra Escobar
Satanists don't actually believe in Satan. They're not, like, vehicles of evil. We've been through this.
[38:10]
Julian Benavalli
Oh, my God.
[38:10]
Myra Escobar
From the Satanic Temple website.
[38:12]
Amara
Ahem.
[38:12]
Raina
Yeah.
[38:12]
Myra Escobar
The mission of the Satanic Temple is to encourage benevolence and empathy, reject tyrannical authority, advocate practical common sense, oppose injustice, and undertake noble pursuits.
[38:21]
Julian Benavalli
Aren't they, like, punking us by saying the Church of Saint.
[38:24]
Myra Escobar
It's supposed to, like, represent other things, but they don't actually believe in that. And they're like. They say, like, we're too selfish.
[38:29]
Holly
Right.
[38:30]
Myra Escobar
They believe, like, they worship themselves.
[38:32]
Holly
Right.
[38:32]
Myra Escobar
So, like, the minute anyone mentions Satanists in this context, they lose any and all credibility.
[38:38]
Holly
Right.
[38:38]
Myra Escobar
Because it's such a stupid, ignorant thing to say. Like, it's not just, like, pitchforks and, like, dancing around a fire in the woods. Like, true, real Satanists don't actually like.
[38:48]
Julian Benavalli
Damien hovering over his trailer. Yeah.
[38:50]
Myra Escobar
My favorite quote. He was like, if you think I could have hovered, you think I would have fucking stayed in West Memphis, Arkansas. You think I wouldn't have hovered my ass away? Like, are you kidding? But, like, Satanists don't, like, you're falling for it. Mark Garagos.
[39:01]
Julian Benavalli
Well, but that fall, right, it was like, this was how people abused children in the 90s and got away with it.
[39:08]
Myra Escobar
Right.
[39:08]
Julian Benavalli
You know?
[39:08]
Myra Escobar
Right. So, like, any time anyone. And like, Mark, you should be better than that.
[39:12]
Julian Benavalli
That. Well, I think my thing about Mark Garos is he's smarter. Like, he's. He's counting on everybody else being stupid.
[39:18]
Myra Escobar
He doesn't believe it because no one. There are a lot of people that can't get past the word Satan, right?
[39:24]
Raina
Yeah.
[39:24]
Julian Benavalli
Are.
[39:24]
Myra Escobar
They're never. They're going to be like, Right, but they must be a little evil. They must believe in that a little bit.
[39:29]
Julian Benavalli
No, and also, I think it. It's the same. It comes from the same line of thinking of, like, it was really hard.
[39:34]
Amara
For some people to wrap their heads around. How can anyone, any man kill his pregnant wife? It can't be Scott Peterson.
[39:44]
Julian Benavalli
It can only have been done by legitimately satanically possessed monsters. Because I can't live in a world where a guy that looks like Scott Peterson would actually do this to his wife.
[39:53]
Myra Escobar
Well, guess what, Holly? We live in it. We live in it. So this theory doesn't go anywhere, obviously, because that's not what fucking happened.
[40:02]
Julian Benavalli
But it doesn't stop the Peterson defense team from calling Holly to testify in Scott's trial. She describes going into the judge's chambers and meeting Scott Peterson. He's like, hello.
[40:11]
Myra Escobar
Yeah.
[40:11]
Julian Benavalli
Stands up, shakes her hand.
[40:12]
Myra Escobar
Don't say hi to me.
[40:13]
Julian Benavalli
Don't say hi to me. I know. Don't say hi to me.
[40:17]
Myra Escobar
Try to say hi.
[40:18]
Julian Benavalli
He did. I know. Can you imagine?
[40:20]
Myra Escobar
Scott, Take a walk. So Myra is asked by Robin Roberts, like, what do you wish in a perfect world, like, what could have happened differently that would have been better for Evelyn and this case? And she says, like, like, more care in general, more resources.
[40:34]
Julian Benavalli
More resources. Early on in that 48 hours where you're saying, wait to see if your loved one who probably left on their own comes back who did own baby shower. I know, I know.
[40:44]
Myra Escobar
Think about when you, hey, idiots, do me a favor. Do me a kindness. Try to think about what you're saying.
[40:48]
Julian Benavalli
Well, it's that kind of thing where, like, we live in a country where we have to go fund our own, like, medical care. I think that everybody should have a reserve GoFundMe for the private investigator you're going to have to hire when your adult friend goes missing, but was actually probably murdered by their spouse.
[41:01]
Myra Escobar
Ghosts. Her own baby shower. And everyone is looking at me like, it's normal.
[41:05]
Julian Benavalli
I know.
[41:05]
Myra Escobar
Are you kidding?
[41:06]
Julian Benavalli
I know.
[41:06]
Myra Escobar
So all of Evelyn's friends and family say to us, like, they say, I'm.
[41:11]
Julian Benavalli
Sorry, we're worked up.
[41:12]
Myra Escobar
The series is awesome. And it's a. It's really important.
[41:15]
Raina
Yeah.
[41:16]
Myra Escobar
It's really important to be out there. Because even if, like, this is so cynical. Oh, my God. But even if people are going to tune in to, like, hear more about the Lacy Peterson case, then they hear about Evelyn.
[41:25]
Julian Benavalli
Yes. So even if they're coming.
[41:27]
Myra Escobar
Even if they're coming to this series.
[41:28]
Julian Benavalli
And guess what you get no new news about Lacy Peterson. Nothing new news.
[41:31]
Myra Escobar
And, like, we should be caring about everyone equally, which is the point. But even if you're coming here and you just, like, accidentally learn about Evelyn.
[41:38]
Julian Benavalli
Yeah.
[41:38]
Myra Escobar
I'll take it. So that, like, maybe the more you hear about these cases, you'll be like, wow, this is fucked up.
[41:42]
Julian Benavalli
Yes.
[41:43]
Myra Escobar
Wow. We should care more.
[41:44]
Julian Benavalli
Yes.
[41:44]
Myra Escobar
Wow. What is my local government. Government doing? Wow. Like, does. Is there an ASL interpreter? Can I help with that? Am I, you know, like, something totally, like, to do something better in this world?
[41:52]
Julian Benavalli
Can I help with that? How can I help? Approach every episode with, can I help with that?
[41:56]
Myra Escobar
Can I, like, what can I do? What is. What is a resource I have that I could have done differently back then?
[42:01]
Raina
Yeah.
[42:01]
Myra Escobar
And can I do it now?
[42:02]
Raina
Yeah.
[42:03]
Myra Escobar
But all of Evelyn's friends and family are saying it's a very clear message to us that other people are more important. And every single person who says this to us is a woman of color.
[42:11]
Julian Benavalli
Well, and Leanne, the local ABC reporter, she is, gets really emotional about it. She's saying the way that these cases are tells us that we don't matter.
[42:19]
Myra Escobar
And she says, you know, looking back, she goes, I could have done more to keep the story going.
[42:23]
Amara
And she says, we tried giving her a voice, but we could have done better. Now there are a lot more Latinas in the newsroom. Each one of us has a responsibility to be the voice for those people who are underserved.
[42:41]
Myra Escobar
Now it's the responsibility of those Latinas in the newsroom to keep the stories alive. And I'm like, yes, but one better. Like, whatever community you're in.
[42:48]
Raina
Yeah.
[42:49]
Myra Escobar
But also it's like, well, why is it their fucking job?
[42:51]
Julian Benavalli
I was just gonna say, hey, white people, why don't we do it? Yes.
[42:55]
Raina
Yes.
[42:56]
Julian Benavalli
And we talked about this in other cases. It's why it's so important. Like, we. I wanna say it's why it's so important to have people of color in positions of hiring. But we should also. All people in positions of hiring should be looking around and making sure that they have diverse staffs.
[43:11]
Myra Escobar
Yes.
[43:11]
Julian Benavalli
You know what I mean? Because we need it. Because we. Like, if I have to explain it to you, I don't even know how to explain it.
[43:18]
Myra Escobar
You know, we can't. You should just fucking get it at 25. Welcome.
[43:22]
Julian Benavalli
Yeah. It's not even about being nice and doing the right thing. It's about knowing that we. That the. Knowing what you don't know.
[43:28]
Myra Escobar
Yeah.
[43:29]
Julian Benavalli
Hire for what you don't know.
[43:30]
Myra Escobar
Yeah. So now, like, as we're sort of winding down, we get like, Scott Peterson was convicted of Lacy Peterson's murder.
[43:37]
Julian Benavalli
And let me just say, Leanne, Leanne.
[43:39]
Amara
The local reporter says he was found guilty. And yet this case never ends. The Innocence Project in Los Angeles decided to look at his case again. We've been through it. We know what happened. And yet people refuse to let go.
[43:57]
Julian Benavalli
The innocent Project in Los Angeles. The way that she. The way that she put her hand out to be like, I know it's not the real Innocence Project, it's the Innocence Project Los Angeles, which is not the Innocence Project.
[44:08]
Myra Escobar
And Amara, who is a black podcaster, says, like, it's amazing that all these years later, people still can't let it go. Like she says, they're. They're trying to reopen this case and free Scott Peter Peterson because they just can't imagine he would do this.
[44:21]
Holly
Right.
[44:22]
Myra Escobar
And the way she says that is kind of like. Are you guys, Are you listening?
[44:26]
Julian Benavalli
I know.
[44:26]
Myra Escobar
Are you hearing what she's saying? Get over it.
[44:30]
Julian Benavalli
Yeah, like, I know. Let him rot.
[44:32]
Myra Escobar
We're not talking about Evelyn enough.
[44:34]
Holly
Right?
[44:35]
Myra Escobar
Everyone listening to this just heard about Evelyn. If you didn't. Great.
[44:37]
Raina
Yeah.
[44:38]
Myra Escobar
But like, a lot of us just learned about Evelyn. And I look, I looked up if we mentioned her in other coverage.
[44:43]
Julian Benavalli
Have we?
[44:43]
Myra Escobar
We did. Not in the, the Netflix one that sky did, the Lacey Peterson, the murder of Lacy Peterson that we just did, but the one that we did a.
[44:51]
Julian Benavalli
Million years ago on Patreon that was.
[44:53]
Myra Escobar
Made by Scott's family.
[44:54]
Julian Benavalli
Yeah.
[44:54]
Myra Escobar
She is mentioned because they, they do. We, we like, get into them trying to tie it to her.
[44:58]
Julian Benavalli
I wanted to say one other thing about that, because Holly, the investigator says at one point, Scott Peterson's family reached out and they were kind of like.
[45:06]
Myra Escobar
Kind of begging her.
[45:07]
Julian Benavalli
You know, it was Janie. You know, it was Janie, the fucking sister in law who, you know it was her.
[45:13]
Myra Escobar
Yeah, I just, I assumed it Was Mark.
[45:16]
Julian Benavalli
No, in my. In my. As soon as she said the family reached out and was kind of begging me to like, say these cases are like that, I was like, you know, that was Jamie.
[45:24]
Myra Escobar
Because they're trying to use the similarities against Evelyn.
[45:28]
Holly
Right.
[45:28]
Myra Escobar
In a fucked up way. That's what they're doing.
[45:30]
Julian Benavalli
Yeah.
[45:30]
Myra Escobar
Instead of like, oh, wow. Instead of looking at the very real and horrifying statistic that homicide is the leading cause of death in pregnant women.
[45:37]
Holly
Right.
[45:37]
Myra Escobar
Pregnant people.
[45:38]
Julian Benavalli
That, like, this isn't uncommon. You know what I mean? Like, it's not weird that these two cases happen because it happens all the time.
[45:44]
Myra Escobar
It's not doing what you think it's doing. And the minute you say Satanist, I'm out. I. I am out. My Satanist now. And then we just end with like, the point is everyone deserves level of attention that Lacy Peterson got. It's the same thing we say all the time. And again, like, if you don't get it, then that's on you.
[46:00]
Julian Benavalli
Yeah. And like Myra is saying, if they.
[46:03]
Twiggy
Are alive, we want them home, and if they are not, we want them home so that we can bury them with her.
[46:10]
Julian Benavalli
We still want them home so we can bury them with their mother. And, you know, that's where we kind of end is like, where are they?
[46:17]
Myra Escobar
Where are they?
[46:17]
Julian Benavalli
Is there a world in which Alex is out there? Because I was like, I was saying, can we look at Herman? Like, how many kids does he have? And can we. We got some DNA tests.
[46:25]
Myra Escobar
And did he and his wife, are they still together?
[46:27]
Holly
Right.
[46:28]
Myra Escobar
She maybe want to talk now?
[46:29]
Julian Benavalli
Because we find out, like I said earlier, that Herman, the last time he was interviewed by the police was 2022.
[46:34]
Myra Escobar
You know what they say, once a cheater, always a cheater.
[46:36]
Julian Benavalli
I know. Do they have one or two kids that aren't biologically the wife's?
[46:40]
Myra Escobar
I don't know.
[46:40]
Julian Benavalli
Is one of them five years older than the other?
[46:42]
Myra Escobar
I don't know. You know, like, I mean, these are questions.
[46:45]
Julian Benavalli
Yeah.
[46:45]
Myra Escobar
So in 2018, a cold case detective named Dan gets the case.
[46:49]
Raina
Yeah.
[46:50]
Myra Escobar
And he does this thing where he's like, you know, we could really use some help from the public.
[46:53]
Julian Benavalli
I know.
[46:53]
Myra Escobar
And like, turns and looks at the came.
[46:56]
Julian Benavalli
But I do think it's like, well, tell me what you mean then, because I don't. I don't know that we feel empowered to help. Because I feel like a lot of times we're told we can't help.
[47:03]
Myra Escobar
Right. And I think what he's saying is, like, well, and I Didn't do it in 2018. I joined. I don't know what his deal is.
[47:09]
Julian Benavalli
What do you want us to raise? Well, let's raise some money. What do you want us to raise money for?
[47:12]
Myra Escobar
He's like, well, we have an anonymous tip line. And I'm like, oh, Dan.
[47:14]
Julian Benavalli
Oh, that's what you mean.
[47:16]
Myra Escobar
Okay.
[47:16]
Raina
Yeah, yeah.
[47:17]
Myra Escobar
But he. What he's saying is, though, which is important. Like, it's never too late. There's no piece of information that's too small.
[47:22]
Holly
Right.
[47:22]
Julian Benavalli
And he's saying they're relying on advances in DNA. Does that mean, like, my one complaint is, like, we don't what kind of evidence they have? Do you have things that haven't been, like, I would like a little bit more on that.
[47:32]
Myra Escobar
And if they were dating, of course his DNA is going to be on her everywhere.
[47:35]
Raina
Yeah.
[47:35]
Myra Escobar
Uncommon that Maybe he touched her wallet. Like, okay.
[47:38]
Julian Benavalli
Of course.
[47:39]
Myra Escobar
So you're right, though. We don't know anything. But, like, where is Alex?
[47:42]
Holly
Right?
[47:43]
Myra Escobar
And we learned that Evelyn named her baby Fernando. So Alex and Fernando have never been found. But Sister Raina, it's been 22 years, and Sister Rain is like, this is.
[47:54]
Patrick Hines
Alex's and Evelyn's things that I've saved. I have his toys all waiting for him.
[48:02]
Myra Escobar
Like, all of Alex's things, everything. Like, all the people that showed up to the baby shower, all the gifts for Fernando.
[48:08]
Julian Benavalli
Oh, my God.
[48:08]
Myra Escobar
Reina's like, I have them.
[48:09]
Julian Benavalli
Yeah.
[48:10]
Myra Escobar
Like, imagine, like, she's throwing a part, like a shower to celebrate her sister and Alex and this new baby.
[48:17]
Julian Benavalli
And that's the moment she finds out her sister's missing and everyone showed up.
[48:20]
Myra Escobar
With gifts, and everyone's like, it's 1:30. Where's Evelyn? And then suddenly, it's the worst moment of your life. And now Reina has all of the. Those things that she has to, like, deal with every day for the. For the reason of, like. Well, they're out there somewhere, and I just want them to have their things when we find them. Like, these people are. These women are so amazing.
[48:37]
Julian Benavalli
And just no one's looking at Herman enough. Like, we got to get him.
[48:41]
Myra Escobar
So. Yeah. So this is where we get when we wind down. Evelyn's sons, Alex and Fernando, have never been found. Herman was Last interviewed by SFPD, August 2002.
[48:49]
Julian Benavalli
That's insane.
[48:51]
Myra Escobar
He has never been charged or publicly declared a suspect. And Evelyn's disappearance. Evelyn's case remains active with the sfpd. If you have any information about Evelyn's case, please call one. I can't Believe we have, like, an old school phone number. Yeah, 1, 4, 1 5.
[49:04]
Julian Benavalli
That's like a San Francisco, like, area.
[49:05]
Myra Escobar
Code all the way, baby.
[49:07]
Julian Benavalli
Yeah.
[49:07]
Myra Escobar
1-4-15-575-4444. It's a very easy number to remember.
[49:12]
Julian Benavalli
Yeah.
[49:13]
Myra Escobar
So there's not a website or anything, but if you have. I mean, who knows, who knows if someone's ready to talk now, Right. Wife.
[49:20]
Holly
Right.
[49:20]
Myra Escobar
Or any other girlfriend of his or anyone else. Or someone from the limo company, like, anybody.
[49:25]
Holly
Right.
[49:25]
Julian Benavalli
Somebody knows something, pick up a phone. God.
[49:28]
Myra Escobar
We're attached to our phones all the time. Use them for good.
[49:29]
Julian Benavalli
I know.
[49:30]
Myra Escobar
And Holly. I can't. Not now. Holly.
[49:37]
Julian Benavalli
Oh, my God, girl. We did.
[49:39]
Myra Escobar
So this is the new series on Hulu called Murder Has Two Faces. This is the first episode called Motherhood Interrupted. These will be on the calendar for the bonus episodes. Mark my words.
[49:47]
Julian Benavalli
Oh, good. I'm so excited. Yeah. So good. Bam. We also have a book club. Go join the book club. You do that easily by going to the Facebook group. There's a featured post. Just fill out the Google form. It takes you like 20 seconds and then you're in with, like 400 other people reading true crime books.
[50:00]
Myra Escobar
True crime books. And then like, discussing it. And it's all. It's like, for listeners. By listeners, you know, it's like, it's so great. And it's also in the Discord, too. Like a channel for that. In the Discord and the disci and the disky.
[50:10]
Julian Benavalli
Also, we've got a Patreon come to our drag Bingo every month. It's more and more and more people. It is so much fun. We're killing it with the prizes. We're going really crazy with them.
[50:19]
Myra Escobar
And that's.
[50:20]
Julian Benavalli
I won Drag bingo last night.
[50:21]
Myra Escobar
One drag bingo.
[50:22]
Julian Benavalli
I didn't keep it. Obviously, I didn't keep the prizes, but I've been playing for over a year and I've never won. And I won last year.
[50:26]
Myra Escobar
Bingo. Whatever. Like, if one of us win, I think we both won, like, once.
[50:30]
Raina
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[50:30]
Myra Escobar
We just shout bingo and then move on quickly and give the prizes.
[50:33]
Julian Benavalli
Everyone was so happy for me, though. It was so nice because you have.
[50:35]
Myra Escobar
Been complaining about it for every week. Every month.
[50:37]
Julian Benavalli
Every month.
[50:38]
Myra Escobar
And then you're like, congratulations. I guess.
[50:40]
Julian Benavalli
I guess it's fine, you guys.
[50:41]
Myra Escobar
I guess it's fine. But no, you actually, when you took a picture of it, you did not fake it.
[50:45]
Julian Benavalli
You could alive lied. I know you didn't. I didn't. I did it.
[50:47]
Myra Escobar
Right? Yeah. So. But that's at the $5 level. So we're not, like, gatekeeping the bingo?
[50:51]
Julian Benavalli
No. And go listen to our coverage of the Karen Reed thing. It's crazy. It's so wild.
[50:55]
Myra Escobar
Like, how long till this trial is over? How long till we find out what happens? Will we ever find out?
[51:01]
Julian Benavalli
Who knows? Probably not.
[51:02]
Myra Escobar
Oh, my God.
[51:03]
Julian Benavalli
We love you, fam. Thanks for hanging out.
[51:05]
Myra Escobar
See you so soon.
[51:05]
Julian Benavalli
All right. Bye.
[51:06]
Myra Escobar
Bye.