437: The Curious Case of the Doomsday Cat Cult

Summary

True Crime Obsessed Podcast Episode 437: The Curious Case of the Doomsday Cat Cult

Release Date: June 24, 2025
Hosts: Julia Benzival and Patrick Hines

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Introduction

In episode 437 of True Crime Obsessed, hosts Julia Benzival and Patrick Hines delve into the unsettling story of the "Doomsday Cat Cult." This detailed examination uncovers how a seemingly benevolent cat rescue organization serves as a front for a manipulative and dangerous cult led by Cheryl Walker Ruthven. The episode navigates through the intricate web of abuse, brainwashing, and financial exploitation orchestrated by Cheryl, illustrating the profound impact on the lives of those involved.

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Meet the Hosts and Current Projects

The episode begins with Julia and Patrick engaging in their characteristic banter, sharing personal anecdotes and promoting their social platforms and Patreon page. They briefly touch upon other documentaries they are passionate about, such as the "Karen Reid" and "Fox Hollow murders," setting the stage for their deep dive into the cat cult narrative.

Notable Quote:

• Julia Benzival at [00:32]: "I want to thank you for bringing this documentary into my life."

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The Formation of the Cult

Cheryl Walker Ruthven emerges as the central figure of the cult. Initially part of a Pentecostal-style church known as Gates of Praise, Cheryl's charismatic and domineering personality leads her to break away and establish her own group, Freedom Fire Ministries.

Key Points:

• Cheryl's fiery preaching style attracted around 200 followers.
• Her desire for power led her to create a separate entity, intensifying her control over members.

Notable Quote:

• Mary Lancaster at [06:52]: "Her charismatic, fire and brimstone style preaching has attracted around 200 followers."

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Cheryl's Manipulative Tactics

Cheryl employs a combination of religious fervor and personal manipulation to exert control. She leverages her followers' need for community and acceptance, blending Christian doctrines with her own twisted interpretations that elevate her to a prophetic status.

Key Points:

• Cheryl enforces total obedience, punishing dissenters publicly.
• She manipulates members into adopting numerous cats, positioning them as divine vessels essential for salvation during an impending apocalypse.

Notable Quote:

• Mary Lancaster at [03:19]: "If she said take these cats, you couldn't say no. You did not have the right to say no."

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Impact on Families and Relationships

The cult's influence extends beyond its immediate members, deeply affecting their families. Cheryl's ex-husband, Mark Walker, finds himself at odds with her as she attempts to sever his relationship with their children, who are being indoctrinated into the cult.

Key Points:

• Mark and Cheryl's divorce leads to joint custody, but Cheryl gradually gains more time with the children.
• Cheryl accuses Mark of being abusive to justify her increasing control over the children.
• The cult manipulates the children, including tactics aimed at indoctrinating them to view Mark as evil and necessitating his demise.

Notable Quote:

• Markers at [14:57]: "Neither did."

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The Doomsday Plot

A pivotal moment occurs when Rick Madrid, a cult member, is manipulated into almost committing murder. Cheryl's indoctrination reaches its peak as she equips Rick with an AR15, directing him to target Mark under the guise of divine intervention.

Key Points:

• Cheryl's use of violence and coercion exemplifies the cult's lethal potential.
• Rick's internal conflict and subsequent departure highlight the challenges of escaping such manipulation.

Notable Quote:

• Mary Lancaster at [17:24]: "I am a reincarnated temple whore named Asherah."

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Cult Operations and Financial Exploitation

Cheryl's leadership is marked by financial deceit and exploitation. She demands exorbitant contributions from members under the pretense of supporting the cat rescue, funneling funds directly to herself while promoting the acquisition of numerous cats.

Key Points:

• Members are coerced into adopting up to 50 cats, prioritizing them over personal relationships and responsibilities.
• Cheryl's financial manipulations include theft of tax returns and misuse of adoption funds meant for children with special needs.

Notable Quote:

• Mary Lancaster at [51:38]: "We would have to buy particular cat food, the particular cat litter."

---

Escaping the Cult: Rod's Story

Rod, an ex-husband living in British Columbia, Canada, provides insight into the difficulty of extricating oneself from the cult's grip. Despite his initial skepticism, Cheryl's relentless manipulation forces him into a web of deceit and financial ruin, culminating in the loss of his children.

Key Points:

• Rod's attempt to leave the cult is met with Cheryl's cunning manipulations, including fraudulent legal tactics to retain control over the children.
• His sister, Carol, plays a crucial role in gathering evidence and supporting Rod's efforts to reclaim custody.

Notable Quote:

• Julia Benzival at [63:08]: "You always have to fight for your kids."

---

The Cat Rescue Facade

Cheryl rebrands her cult's operations as "Eva's Eden," masquerading as a humane and dedicated cat rescue shelter. This guise permits her to continue exploiting both the animals and her followers under the radar of law enforcement.

Key Points:

• The facade of a cat rescue allows Cheryl to maintain control while rationalizing the cult's activities.
• Members are burdened with the upkeep of an excessive number of cats, leading to both human and animal suffering.

Notable Quote:

• Mary Lancaster at [51:51]: "Cheryl would stand up and say, when you take these cats home, they are your number one priority."

---

Legal and Societal Implications

The episode discusses the challenges faced when attempting to legally dismantle such cults. Cheryl's ability to operate under the radar through small-scale operations and financial manipulation presents significant hurdles for authorities.

Key Points:

• The legal system often struggles to address coercive control without overt evidence of wrongdoing.
• Cheryl's strategic financial maneuvers, including tax evasion, complicate efforts to hold her accountable.

Notable Quote:

• Patrick Hines at [76:43]: "Because the law doesn't recognize coercive Control at all."

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Conclusion and Reflections

Julia and Patrick conclude the episode by emphasizing the insidious nature of cults disguised as charitable organizations. They reflect on the importance of recognizing manipulation tactics and the critical need for intervention to protect vulnerable individuals and families.

Key Takeaways:

• Cults can masquerade as benign organizations, making them difficult to identify and dismantle.
• Financial exploitation and emotional manipulation are common tactics used to maintain control over members.
• Support systems and awareness are essential in preventing and addressing the impacts of such organizations.

Notable Quote:

• Mary Lancaster at [73:12]: "That's still stuck in a very deep, dark place with someone who manipulates you and tells you if you leave, these bad things will happen to you."

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Final Thoughts

Episode 437 of True Crime Obsessed provides a chilling exploration of the "Doomsday Cat Cult," revealing how love for animals can be twisted into a vehicle for control and abuse. Through detailed narratives and expert insights, Julia Benzival and Patrick Hines shed light on the complexities of escaping such manipulative environments, offering valuable lessons on vigilance and the importance of support in combating cult influence.

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Join the Discussion:
Engage with other listeners in the True Crime Obsessed Facebook Group and support the podcast on Patreon for exclusive content and bonus episodes.

Transcript

[Julia Benzival]

After four years of living in my apartment, it finally happened.

[Patrick Hines]

What?

[Julia Benzival]

There was an enormous cockroach in my shower this morning.

[Patrick Hines]

Why do you tell me this? Why are you being mean? No, no, no.

[Julia Benzival]

I'm not trying to be. I had to wake my husband up at 4 in the morning. I screamed at the top of my lungs. I woke my husband up. I was like, you have to kill it. And then I had a conversation walking Daisy to school today. I was like, if Daddy C was out of town, you would have had to kill the cockroach.

[Patrick Hines]

She's like, she would have been fine with it.

[Julia Benzival]

She would have been fine.

[Patrick Hines]

She doesn't give a.

[Julia Benzival]

Hi, Julia Benzival.

[Patrick Hines]

Hello, Patrick Hines.

[Julia Benzival]

I want to thank you for bringing this documentary into my life.

[Patrick Hines]

You know what? No problem. It is part of that trashy Curious Case of series that's capitalizing on the.

[Julia Benzival]

Curious story we said we weren't going to do.

[Patrick Hines]

But that Fever Dream. But this is the last episode and it's the only full length one. So I was like, oh, we need a one off for the regular feed. Done and done.

[Julia Benzival]

Nice fam. Do me a favor, join the Facebook group. It's the True Crime obsessed podcast discussion group. I love it so much. It's very active. It's highly moderated by Sasha. It's a very safe, fun place to come hang out on the Internet. Yeah, one other thing. We got a Patreon. I don't know if the people know we.

[Patrick Hines]

We have a pretty hefty Patreon.

[Julia Benzival]

Pretty hefty. We are right now in the middle of sending out our pride gift to our hero. Bell Tier.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julia Benzival]

So that's our tier that we send you some stuff a couple times a year. We make special bonus episodes just for y' all.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Benzival]

But at the $5 level, you get a full length bonus episode ad free every week. You get monthly drag videos.

[Patrick Hines]

You get like, at least what we make.

[Julia Benzival]

At least 50 a year.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Benzival]

It is so much you and me right now. We're in the middle of the Karen Reid doc.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God.

[Julia Benzival]

The five episode. I mean, I'm just absolutely obsessed.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, we just said the Fox Hollow murders. We're definitely doing. Hey, beautiful. I promise you we're doing it.

[Julia Benzival]

I just got a bunch of DMS about that today too. I don't even know anything about it. Is it like. Is it men getting murdered for telling women to smile?

[Patrick Hines]

No, you'd think it's women getting tricked into sending a scammer $50,000. No one does it by herself, but One does it on her own accord. 500 grand. I can't even get into it. We will get into. Hey, beautiful. It's definitely on the calendar.

[Julia Benzival]

Patreon.com true crime obsessed. Or just click the link in the show notes here. What are we talking about today, girl?

[Patrick Hines]

The Cur Case of the Doomsday Cat Cult on I D or hbo?

[Julia Benzival]

Max, it's so. It's so. It's so insane. When did you think I'm in a cult?

[Beth Karras]

I probably realized I was in a cult the moment the cat stuff started happening. The message Cheryl would give about these cats were they were of God. And that we were to care for them with the utmost care and love and attention. And if we save these cats today, we will be saved in the day of Armageddon or the apocalypse. So we had to take the cats. No matter how many, no matter how much work it was, we had to take the cats. If she said take these cats, you couldn't say no. You did not have the right to say no. Like, if we said no, then you'd have to leave. Why would you leave the person that's gonna save you when hell's gonna break out on earth? Why would you leave that person? You better just, you know, buck up and take care of the cats so you don't die.

[Patrick Hines]

Beth Karras is here, of course. So Beth Carras, she doesn't miss a party?

[Julia Benzival]

No, she doesn't miss a party. She was prominently featured in the Curious Case of Natalia Grace. So I think when they decided to go to series with this thing, they're like, we can only do it if Karras says yes.

[Mary Lancaster]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

I don't know if she's in any of the other ones.

[Julia Benzival]

Oh, really?

[Patrick Hines]

I don't know. I've heard some horrible things about series.

[Julia Benzival]

Really.

[Patrick Hines]

So I don't know. I just went, right. I was like, oh, this one is an hour and 24 minutes done.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I love it because there's cats. There's obviously lesbians. I am so happy to have gotten some awesome lesbians in this one.

[Patrick Hines]

And, Mary, we'll get to you soon.

[Julia Benzival]

Mary, I love you so. And she's got a beautiful singing voice. She's like, a fair lesbian. I am obsessed.

[Patrick Hines]

She has, like, one of my favorite ending moments of documentary. I just think she's. I. I just like, yeah, yeah, I want to. It's. Anyway, I love her. So we're in the Pacific Northwest in Washington, and we meet Mary Walker. Not the Mary we're talking about. This Mary's not bad. I'm just. She's great. She is Mark Walker's wife.

[Julia Benzival]

All the Marys in this one are great, except for the lady who thinks she's Mary Magdalene.

[Patrick Hines]

I can't even.

[Julia Benzival]

Like, after watching the Da Vinci Code one time, I can understand why you'd want to be Mary Magdalene after watching the Da Vinci Code.

[Patrick Hines]

I didn't see the Da Vinci Code, nor did I read the book.

[Julia Benzival]

Oh. I read the whole thing in, like, two days, which is. It's designed for you to read it in two days and make you feel smart because you're talking about art and shit or whatever. I'm surprised it's one.

[Patrick Hines]

And, like, Jesus, though, too, right?

[Julia Benzival]

It's very Jesus. Y. But it's all about how, like, the cults and the. You would love it.

[Patrick Hines]

The church hated it.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah, of course. Of course.

[Patrick Hines]

I was obsessed.

[Julia Benzival]

Totally, totally.

[Patrick Hines]

Tom Hanks.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay. Right?

[Julia Benzival]

I can't believe.

[Patrick Hines]

I can't believe I missed it. It felt like a lot at the time, and I was kind of like.

[Julia Benzival]

It was its own cult.

[Patrick Hines]

I don't know what's happening here.

[Julia Benzival]

Like, the COVID of the book, like.

[Patrick Hines]

The ad campaign, they were, like, always looking back.

[Julia Benzival]

It was a picture of the Mona Lisa, and it said. But then the tagline was, why is this man smiling? And I was like, all right, I'm in. Hook, line, and sinker. I'm in. I'm obsessed.

[Patrick Hines]

Am I going to read it 25 years after it came out?

[Julia Benzival]

It's really, really good. I mean, it's like. I say it's meant for people like me. It's meant to make dummies feel smart, which it totally did, and I loved it.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay, great.

[Julia Benzival]

It's a K pop. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So Mary and Mark both had two boys and a girl when they got married. That's a total of six kids.

[Julia Benzival]

Yes. And good math.

[Patrick Hines]

I was like. And I say that my mom is one of six. It's still a whole lot of kids.

[Julia Benzival]

My dad is the oldest of eight. He's dead now, but was the oldest of eight kids. Isn't that wild?

[Patrick Hines]

Are you in touch with any of his siblings?

[Julia Benzival]

No. I wish, but no.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Moving. They had big dreams of being the Brady Bunch.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Big blended family. And that all went out the window almost immediately, says Mary.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah. Mary is telling us the story, by the way, while she is loading and shooting a crossbow. Did you notice that?

[Patrick Hines]

She's a monster.

[Julia Benzival]

A croft of it all. Like, a fucking. A crossbow to me is scarier than a gun.

[Patrick Hines]

Nice. Tomb Raider reference.

[Julia Benzival]

Thank you. I barely know what it is, but thank you so much.

[Patrick Hines]

I was not expecting that walking into work today.

[Julia Benzival]

And I only know about it because of Angelina Jolie. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Nice one.

[Julia Benzival]

That's all.

[Patrick Hines]

So Mark's ex wife is named Cheryl. Cheryl is the bride of Christ, apparently. And Mark was.

[Julia Benzival]

But really though, what is she?

[Patrick Hines]

And Mark was very transparent. He's like, look, my nutcase of an ex thinks she's the body of Christ or whatever.

[Julia Benzival]

So I just have my note here. Oh, thank God. Beth Caris is here.

[Patrick Hines]

Thank God.

[Julia Benzival]

They get her in real early.

[Patrick Hines]

Thank God.

[Julia Benzival]

They get her in real early.

[Patrick Hines]

Thank God. So let's dive into it. Cheryl Walker Ruthven.

[Julia Benzival]

This is gonna be such a good one. I'm so excited. Beth.

[Patrick Hines]

Kara says Cheryl Walker Ruthven is a.

[Mary Lancaster]

Pentecost style preacher based out of Bellingham, Washington. Her charismatic, fire and brimstone style preaching has attracted around 200 followers. And she's gained a reputation for pushing.

[Patrick Hines]

The boundaries of traditional faith, charismatic, fire and brimstone preacher. And I'm like, beth, you can't be both. That's like saying jumbo shrimp. It's one or the other. It's like.

[Julia Benzival]

I'm sorry, I never thought about that before.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, that's a. That's straight out of White Hot American Summer.

[Julia Benzival]

Oh. Oh, is it really? I love White Hot American Summer. Yeah, I saw it in the movie theater.

[Patrick Hines]

Me too.

[Julia Benzival]

With a. Talk back with some of the cast afterwards.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, yeah, they used to do it all the time. And they used to have like, a lot of screenings, like midnight screenings. Yeah. We were probably at the same one many a time.

[Julia Benzival]

That is wild.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Benzival]

That's so crazy.

[Patrick Hines]

That absolutely happened. Travel down the road.

[Julia Benzival]

Back again, girl. Cure is a sponsor this month. Look, this is kid approved hydration if ever I've seen it.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. So Cure is a clean plant based electrolyte drink mix formulated with pediatricians and made just for kids.

[Julia Benzival]

But the point is, it's delicious. It's getting to be summertime. Daisy's going back to that summer camp that we love. Love. It's outdoors. It's all day long. We are putting this in her water bottle every single day for school to prep her for summer. She drinks the whole thing and she is obsessed.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. So there's no added sugar, no artificial sweeteners, no fake colors, just real hydration. Your kids are going to love it.

[Julia Benzival]

Okay, let's talk about these flavors. We've got fruit punch, pink lemonade, and mixed berry. I. I Could drink the fruit punch all day long, every single day.

[Patrick Hines]

I was going to say, I know this isn't for me, but can you please pass me the fruit punch? This is also safe for kids over one year old. And it's made from premium plant based ingredients. Again with the plant based.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah. And it's so easy. It comes in an easy stick pack. You just mix it with the water and you're good to go. Like once again, we dump it into her water bottle, which she takes every single day. Now she, like used to come home with a full water bottle and it was so annoying. Now it is empty every single day.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And everyone's like, outside, you got your soccer games, you got your activities.

[Julia Benzival]

It's summer. Like the kids are going to camp. Like, this is the perfect time.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Also, cure is a female founded brand.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Just wanted to drop that because I think it's important.

[Julia Benzival]

So, fam. If you want to feel good about giving your kids something that's actually good for them, go to curehydration.com TCO for 20% off your first order.

[Patrick Hines]

That's curehydration.com TCO For 20% off clean hydration. The whole family will love.

[Julia Benzival]

Just add it to their water. They're gonna. Thank you.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Save me some fruit punch, will you?

[Julia Benzival]

Totally.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay, so there's five. I have to say something. This is the thing I want to talk about for 25 minutes because I don't understand. Like, it made me feel kind of crazy.

[Julia Benzival]

I know you texted me about this.

[Patrick Hines]

Today, how poorly planned this whole thing was.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah, there's. There's no real good way to do it, but this is a really bad way to do it.

[Patrick Hines]

This is maybe the worst way to do it. Knowing, like, Mary and Mark know how crazy Cheryl is.

[Julia Benzival]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And I'm not using that word like lightly, like she's an abusive, insane person.

[Julia Benzival]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So in 2005, Mary meets Mark's kids for the first time. All the kids and the family is coming together for the first time on a scene ski trip. Plus one of them got to bring.

[Julia Benzival]

A friend, one of the adult, but they also brought a dog. So it's six kids, three adults and a dog.

[Patrick Hines]

So I'm like, it just seems like a lot for everyone to first meet each other on a ski trip. And then I'm like, some of them have to be teenagers. Someone's a grump. Does everyone even want to go?

[Julia Benzival]

My. My note here is, I know we have bigger fish to fry, but I'll never understand why anybody would Go skiing.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm not even like, this is the tip of my iceberg about this. Because then I'm like, okay, well, now you're introducing siblings when they're potentially already grumpy. Like, this doesn' feel like a good idea.

[Julia Benzival]

The thing about a ski trip like this is, like, you got to get all bundled up now. You're a lot.

[Patrick Hines]

There's, like, equipment, there's like, gear.

[Julia Benzival]

And, you know, like, a couple of the kids aren't going to be good skiers, but a couple of the kids are going to be really good skiers.

[Patrick Hines]

And again, everyone is meeting like, hi, nice to meet you. Let's get in the car and drive. Four hours to go. Like, it's just a lot.

[Julia Benzival]

Their country, by the way, they went. They went into Canada to go skiing.

[Patrick Hines]

It's just a lot to do. When everyone just met each other.

[Julia Benzival]

What do you think would have been, like, the best way to do it? Like, what's the idea? Literally, go to Chili's, I have a.

[Patrick Hines]

Barbecue, post, like, do something.

[Julia Benzival]

A barbecue is a good idea.

[Patrick Hines]

No. Why? It has to be like the meeting.

[Julia Benzival]

It has several days and I'm assuming probably not that many rooms. So there's a lot of people sharing.

[Patrick Hines]

Bathrooms that you just met. And I know, like, you're stuck with each other now. Like, I get it, but it's like this family being blended and all coming together is the activity. We don't have to drive and go skiing. It just feels like a lot. But this is.

[Julia Benzival]

Who's picking the music?

[Patrick Hines]

Like, oh, my God, this is nothing compared to Mary meeting Cheryl for the first time. Because it just gets worse. Because she goes, well, she was already in the. Mary says she was already in the driveway waiting for us. Wait a second.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Wait, everyone is meeting Cheryl after the ski trip?

[Julia Benzival]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

After hours on the road, everyone's in a bad mood.

[Julia Benzival]

No question.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, everyone is in a bad mood. Like, why are you so bad at introductions? So, like, unless I'm projecting. And everyone was thrilled to be skiing, thrilled to be meeting. No, none of the 10 people are grumpy after being with their brand new blended family all weekend.

[Julia Benzival]

But then. But then they get home and the ex wife slash bride of Christ is in the driveway.

[Patrick Hines]

And she goes, well, Mary, I just. Okay, this is so unclear because Mary.

[Julia Benzival]

Is saying a lot of this is unclear.

[Patrick Hines]

Everyone is.

[Julia Benzival]

It's a documentary about a cat call.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, everyone is unpacking the car, hauling suitcases. All 10 people are getting all of their luggage out of the six Cars.

[Julia Benzival]

You're so traumatized.

[Patrick Hines]

I just don't understand, like, why they. Why today when, you know, Cheryl is a nightmare, like, why.

[Julia Benzival]

I think that the point is that Cheryl is here to be a nightmare. She's here to make this difficult situation as hard as possible.

[Patrick Hines]

Because Mary says all of a sudden.

[Mary Lancaster]

You know, Cheryl came in through that opened door and she's in the living room. And I just remember standing in the kitchen thinking that Cheryl was a bit of a threat.

[Patrick Hines]

She's in the living room staring menacingly into the kitchen at Mary.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So what happened? Like, I guess Cheryl was gonna meet them.

[Julia Benzival]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

The day they come home from a 10 person ski trip. She showed up crazy early. And instead of, I'm sorry, Mary, she.

[Julia Benzival]

Showed up crazy, comma, early, comma, Mary.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm sorry. You're not. You're like, you didn't do anything wrong here. Except for maybe what I'm about to say. Instead of saying, come on in, we'll unpack later. She's like, sorry, Cheryl, could you wait outside? I know you're an insane person.

[Julia Benzival]

I know you're the bride of Christ, but could you. Would you mind waiting outside for just another couple of minutes while I wrangle.

[Patrick Hines]

All of these children and like, teach them how to unpack for the first time today? It's like these people who, like, at 5:30 on a Friday have to teach their kid how to go up and down the stairs in the fucking Union Square subway station. Not the time, Carol. It's 5:30 on a Friday and we have places, places to go. This is not the time to do that little one step at a time thing. Two feet on the step. I'm sorry. When you have kids, you have to pick and choose. This is also isn't the time to like, teach them how to press the elevator button.

[Julia Benzival]

I agree.

[Patrick Hines]

When you have an elevator full of.

[Julia Benzival]

People, like, we literally just the other day, like yesterday, taught Daisy how to fold her own clothes after getting them out of the laundry.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, wow.

[Julia Benzival]

And she was like, she looked at us like, how dare you ask me to do that? And I was like, daisy, do I have a parent here folding my clothes and putting them away? And she's like, no. And the light bulb went off. She's like, oh my God, you don't. And then in that moment, she realized she was going to have to learn how to do that some point.

[Patrick Hines]

Among other things.

[Julia Benzival]

Well, listen, we, we've. It's been a whole year of like, she makes her own breakfast. She, you know, like, like all of that. So this weekend's lesson was, like, learning how to fold her own. She literally did not know how to, like, fold her pants.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, wow.

[Julia Benzival]

And we had to, like, teach her how to do it and, like, put her own away. It's like, my. My point is just like, you actually literally do have to teach your kids how to do these things. But now's not the day.

[Patrick Hines]

Not when Cheryl, bride of Chucky's outside. Like, give me a break. Like, I'm not defending Cheryl in any way, but this is just the worst way. It's an absolutely for this to happen.

[Julia Benzival]

But, like, also, Mary, you don't have to be. You don't let your new husband's ex wife into your house. You can also be like, get out of here. Like, get the fuck out of my house.

[Patrick Hines]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding.

[Julia Benzival]

I don't think so.

[Patrick Hines]

That Mary was like, you know what? Fuck it. We just got home from a ski trip. We're going to do what we want to do. You wait outside. Which I would 100% agree with. So I just backtrack on it.

[Julia Benzival]

No, no, no, I'm with you. It's unclear, but I think you got it right. Beth Caris, my best friend, is telling.

[Mary Lancaster]

Us Mark and Cheryl divorced in 2004. The settlement resulted in 50, 50 joint custody of the children. But eventually the children spent more and more time with Cheryl. Now in 2008, Mark's continued presence in the lives of the children is a source of frustration for Cheryl.

[Julia Benzival]

Cheryl really fucking hates this.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, the thing. The reason why is that they get divorced in 2004. The big ski trip meeting was in 2005. It did not take Mark long to move on. And that is often triggering for some people. Right? So, like, not only did he leave her Christ incarnate or whatever, but, like, now he's already having the Brady Bunch holiday special ski trip.

[Julia Benzival]

It is funny that she's bride of Christ, but also Christ incarnate.

[Patrick Hines]

She's a nightmare.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's. That's a little confusing.

[Patrick Hines]

She doesn't mean it. She doesn't give a shit.

[Julia Benzival]

She's also Mary Magdalene, but not until she sees a Da Vinci Code. I'm getting ahead of myself. So we meet now, my hero, lesbian cat lover, Mary Lancaster. I'm obsessed with her. And she's got a lot of info on, like, Mark and Mary. Like, she gets. She gets very close to Cheryl, slash bride of Christ. So she knows a lot. And she's. Mary is telling us that, like, Mark's role in Cheryl's when they were married, was to be subservient. Let Cheryl be the master of this religion. Let her, like, be the one to call all the shots. And Mark was meant to be like the little, like the, the. The wallflower.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. So Mark wasn't having it. So Mark called her out on her shit and then doubled down and divorced.

[Julia Benzival]

Her and fought for custody of the kids. This is also known as just getting a divorce. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Like in the real world, like, it's.

[Julia Benzival]

Just like I always think my older sister did it. Like they were both like, we're not happy anymore. Let's get divorced. They did it kindly and friendly.

[Patrick Hines]

No murder.

[Julia Benzival]

No barely a murder.

[Patrick Hines]

No bullshit.

[Julia Benzival]

Like how everyone just got on with their lives.

[Patrick Hines]

But Cheryl doesn't subscribe to that because after they, like, Mark really fought hard for this custody and this visitation, Cheryl didn't want him to be in the kids lives at all, which is like, not how this works. Cheryl. No, when Mark is not an abusive asshole, like, that's not how it works. So Cheryl, then again, like, ever the mature one, right? Cheryl, is now talking shit about Mark to her quote congregation and making up lies about him.

[Julia Benzival]

And this, this really makes me crazy. She's saying that he's abusive, like, physically, financially, that he's not. Mark will eventually tell us that she got a $750,000 settlement him. And she's out there telling the congregants and their shared children that he never paid child support. I mean, it's. It's horrible. She tells him my dad actually didn't pay child support.

[Patrick Hines]

Neither did.

[Julia Benzival]

My grandfather was ordered to pay child support. And we were growing up in section 8 housing on food stamps, and my dad had the money and refused to pay it. Like, that's a son of a. Mark is not that guy. Mark is not that dad.

[Patrick Hines]

Right? 100%, you know, but according to Cheryl, he was.

[Julia Benzival]

I mean, no disrespect to my grandmother Theresa. She was probably fine. Yeah, you know what I mean, Mark.

[Patrick Hines]

Apparently, according to Cheryl, she was telling.

[Mary Lancaster]

Her congregation that he was manifesting demons, that he was a devil named Baphomet, and that I was a reincarnated temple whore named Asherah.

[Julia Benzival]

I was a reincarnated temple whore named Asherah.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm like, girl, same. Tell me about it.

[Julia Benzival]

A reincarnated temple whore.

[Patrick Hines]

And no one, everyone's like, huh? Yeah, got it. Taking notes. Cheryl is telling her cult that Mark has to die like Earl, because Earl had to die, because Earl did have Earl. Absolute fuck Earl.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

But again, that's the chicks everyone still wants.

[Julia Benzival]

Retweeted us.

[Patrick Hines]

And yes, Mary from the cult is like, I am ashamed to say this, but I very often prayed for Mark's death because back then I was told he was evil and needed to go.

[Julia Benzival]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And also, as Mary is telling us that she's wearing a yellow shirt with black hats all over it, there's a cat climbing wall set thing behind her. Some of the culture stuff stuck. I'm just kidding. Mary, we love you. We know the cats came first. We'll get into it.

[Julia Benzival]

We got to be clear, when we're talking about marry the new wife and marry the lesbian, how do we do it?

[Patrick Hines]

I'm. I guess marry the lesbian.

[Julia Benzival]

Are we allowed to say marry the lesbian? Because I love her so much.

[Patrick Hines]

She talks about how she's gay. I don't know why. And it's not an insult to call someone a lesbian. Great.

[Julia Benzival]

So.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God, this asshole. 2008 Rick Madrid joins the cult.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And I know that no one joins a culpa for the sake of the storytelling.

[Julia Benzival]

And he's such a piece of shit. He's like, I. He totally stuck out. From the congregation, we hear this podcast interview that he did in 2021, and he's like, I'm basically, I'm just like a bro. I'm a bros bro. I'm a heathen kind of guy. You know what I mean? I'm just a guy. I ride motorcycles and. And I. I grew up on horses and horseback. And I'm one of those guys, I drink beer and I fight. I'm one of those guys, I drink.

[Patrick Hines]

Beer and I'm like, okay. And how many times have you thought about kissing a dude? Because it feels like it's consuming you with.

[Julia Benzival]

Are you asking me how, like, I get thinking about it right now?

[Patrick Hines]

I get it. You're a guy. I totally get it. How many times can you say it in 10 seconds?

[Julia Benzival]

I know. He's like, the no homo of it all.

[Patrick Hines]

And he's like, this is just the beginning. So Rick comes to a service, and Cheryl's like, that one targets him immediately. She's all over him, love bombing him, giving him these, like, amazing prophecies because Mary's like, he was the bad boy of the cult. And, like, mary, girl, no.

[Julia Benzival]

But what Rick doesn't understand is that she's manipulating you. Like, right? And, like, he thinks he's, like, above it and he's better than all these other men who aren't men that are in the cult. Who are sincere. She's getting you. She knows, like, that's what these. And Beth Caris is gonna say it a thousand times. This is the one thing that cult leaders are really good at. They know exactly what the person needs to feel special. Like, Rick, she used you, you idiot.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, she used you. And those.

[Julia Benzival]

Even though you're a bros, bro.

[Patrick Hines]

The sex was so amazing. Rick was having visions. And I'm like, of men.

[Julia Benzival]

I know, Rick.

[Patrick Hines]

I get it. You're the straightest man to ever live. You've made that very clear.

[Julia Benzival]

They are kind of gay visions. Like, he's like, we're underwater. I know. We're going to down a stream. And he also calls it making love, which I can't stand. No, gay whatever.

[Patrick Hines]

No, but, like, the longer Rick was with Cheryl, the stronger she got, because it all comes back to Rick's manhood. I'm like, what is happening? Like, you fell for it.

[Julia Benzival]

How long until we get to the cats?

[Patrick Hines]

Like, not soon enough.

[Julia Benzival]

So the point is, he goes, she was something. I don't know what it was, but she was something. And I just wrote, okie dokie.

[Patrick Hines]

She was manipulative. Okay, like, whatever. So point is, Mark needs to die. Rick will replace him. And Rick is the new spiritual father and husband.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And Rick admits on this podcast, like, I have to, like, much like Mary, he's like, oh, Mark's death was literally all we talked about.

[Julia Benzival]

Everybody would walk around the church and proclaim how Mark is going to die.

[Patrick Hines]

How she explained it was.

[Julia Benzival]

It was a spiritual thing.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, the whole point of the cult at that time was like, how is. How are we going to get Mark to be dead?

[Julia Benzival]

I mean, she really was out to have him murdered. There's no question about that.

[Patrick Hines]

And what they try to say, they try to say, like, well, it'll be a spiritual thing. Like, one day he'll just fall over and die. Like, not murder necessarily. He'll just die. And it'll be because we preyed on it.

[Julia Benzival]

And I know that I'm a Debbie who's just waiting for the lesbians and the cats, but it was at this moment that I realized we hadn't seen Mark yet. And I was like, oh, I know. Shit. Is he actually dead?

[Patrick Hines]

Because. And what's happening is like, Mark's not dying. Cheryl's getting pissed. And so now she wants Rick to, like, move things along a little bit.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah. So she buys an AR15.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, first what she does is she makes herself the prophet, obviously. And you never, ever, ever, ever, ever say no. To the prophet.

[Julia Benzival]

Of course not.

[Patrick Hines]

And then because of that, she brainwashed everyone.

[Julia Benzival]

Remember the one, that inflatable hot tub. And that was like in the living room all the time. And she'd, like, drink vodka as medicine.

[Patrick Hines]

That's. Love has One. That's Mother God. Yes.

[Julia Benzival]

Do you think they know each other?

[Patrick Hines]

No. These two would not get along.

[Julia Benzival]

Oh, Mother God and Cheryl. This one, Mother God and Mary Magdalene would.

[Patrick Hines]

They would kill each other.

[Julia Benzival]

They would. They'd be drowning each other in that inflatable hot tub.

[Patrick Hines]

They would hate each other.

[Julia Benzival]

It'd be kind of amazing to put them on a reality show.

[Patrick Hines]

I would, I wouldn't watch a single second. Can you imagine? That's. And so wouldn't that aggravate. No, I would watch the living screen.

[Julia Benzival]

Because one of them is turning bluer and bluer and bluer. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Turn off that racket. This racket.

[Julia Benzival]

Cats are just all over the place.

[Mary Lancaster]

Travel down the road.

[Julia Benzival]

Back again, girl. Good Wipes is back. It's time to talk about the stuff we do in the bathroom, which you have no shame about talking about.

[Patrick Hines]

I don't know why you should, especially when Good Wipes is involved. Because Good wipes will elevate your everyday hygiene with premium wipes that deliver a superior clean that no dry toilet paper can match.

[Julia Benzival]

Now listen to me, fam. Good wipes are infused with soothing botanicals like aloe, vitamin E and chamomile that just make you want to run to the bathroom.

[Patrick Hines]

It really does. Good wipes are gentle enough for sensitive skin. Which is me. Yet powerful enough to leave you feeling fresh, confident, and completely clean.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah. Once again, they smell amazing and are safe for sensitive skin. If you are one of those sensitive skin ladies, guys, people out there, you know it's for you.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Also their scents, okay, they have rose water, shea cocoa, lavender, botanical bliss.

[Julia Benzival]

Who doesn't want a lavender scented? Goodwill.

[Patrick Hines]

I know.

[Julia Benzival]

You know what I mean? What kind of monster doesn't want that?

[Patrick Hines]

And they're soft. Sometimes these wipes are like, what am I doing down there? Like, no, these are really soft. They're so much better than other wipes.

[Julia Benzival]

And, and, and, and, and actually flushable.

[Patrick Hines]

That's huge. Yes, that's huge. So these are made with plant based fiber, so they break down easily.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah. So, fam, if you want to upgrade your restroom ritual, you can grab Good wipes at Target, Walmart, Kroger, and most local grocery stores.

[Patrick Hines]

As a special offer for TCO listeners, Good Wipes is giving you your first package for free. Ooh. Just buy any package, text them your receipt, and get reimbursed almost immediately.

[Julia Benzival]

For more details, head to good wipes.comtco.

[Patrick Hines]

Again, that's good wipes.comtco to snag a free pack of Good wipes.

[Julia Benzival]

Do it. Go to the bathroom. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And be clean after.

[Julia Benzival]

Totally.

[Patrick Hines]

More importantly. So she makes herself the prophet who you never say no to. And then she brainwashed everyone, especially Rick, about how Mark had to die. And then on top of that, she buys Rick an AR15 and is like, go do target practice. Pretend it's Mark.

[Julia Benzival]

All they do, they do target practice.

[Patrick Hines]

All day long before specifically Mark.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So. And I'm like, I thought he was supposed to, quote, keel over, but apparently he wasn't keeling over fast enough because the bullshit doesn't work because the cult's not real.

[Julia Benzival]

Right. Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

And so now she wants Rick to shoot and kill him.

[Julia Benzival]

And, like, Rick, you're like, once again, you're such a man's man who can't be manipulated. Except she's getting you to fucking kill this guy.

[Patrick Hines]

I know.

[Julia Benzival]

You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

And Rick eventually is like, I kind of can't believe how far it got. Like, thankfully, by the time 2021 rolls around, he finally thinks like, oh, shit, what was I thinking?

[Julia Benzival]

We're back in 2008, and Mary says that she and Mark have been living in Bellingham, Washington, for 10 years. And Rick Madrid, who's doing target practice, basically, like, on Mark every day, has been to their house a bunch of times because he's now married to Cheryl, and Cheryl is coming to their house all the time to pick up the kids.

[Patrick Hines]

They're casing the joint.

[Julia Benzival]

So Mary is saying, like, they're getting the layout, like they were planning this murder.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And then one day, Rick shows up to the house specifically to kill Mark.

[Julia Benzival]

Like, at the end of the driveway.

[Patrick Hines]

And Mary, his wife, says he had.

[Mary Lancaster]

The rifle with him and he leveled the sights, and he had Mark in his sights, and he had a God.

[Julia Benzival]

Moment.

[Mary Lancaster]

And he decided not to pull the trigger. And we're certainly glad he did, Quote.

[Patrick Hines]

Had a God moment and didn't kill Mark. And this is where the camera zooms out and we see that Mark is alive and well. Thank God.

[Julia Benzival]

I screamed. And Mary is crying.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Benzival]

Mark was seconds away from being gunned down in his own driveway and just.

[Patrick Hines]

Had all of these people praying and wishing and plotting for his death based on nothing.

[Julia Benzival]

No.

[Patrick Hines]

So Mark is the father of three children in a cult.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

His Kids are in a cult. And he's like, my ex wife is the leader of that cult. Mark is here to tell his story.

[Julia Benzival]

And, you know, we get Mark and we get another guy later who, like, what do you do when this happens to you? Like, there is no what do you do? Like, there's no legal recourse.

[Patrick Hines]

None. And at the time, of course, Mark had no idea what Cheryl was doing and saying, like, they didn't know they were casing the joint, but looking back on it, like, they're putting all the pieces together.

[Julia Benzival]

And also, like, Cheryl is telling everyone, including their shared children, that he's the devil, that, like, and that they have to kill him. And she's like, going around the dinner table getting the kids to come up with different ways that they could murder their own father.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And Rick, in this interview that we're hearing from 2021, he was like, I cannot tell you. Like, I don't even recognize that person, like, who I was, like, just like, taking an AR15 about to kill someone I've never met. But he still has to talk. He's still, still, still. In the same breath, he's like, admitting. I'm like, oh, my God, Rick, you did the work. Amazing. Like, you're deprogrammed. It's about. It has to be about how all the other men in the cult were weak and he was a real. So when Cheryl met him, there was finally a real man around. I'm like, rick, are you okay? The men are not okay.

[Julia Benzival]

No. She showed you her boobs one more time and then got you to almost kill a guy.

[Patrick Hines]

What are you talking about?

[Julia Benzival]

Do you not understand how brainwashed she.

[Patrick Hines]

But it's still about how you're like a big man.

[Julia Benzival]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Are you all right? The answer is no. So anyway, Mark would learn about all of these attempts on his life, like, years later, and he didn't report it to the police because, like, as Beth says, like, nothing could really happen.

[Julia Benzival]

But I do think the paper trails.

[Patrick Hines]

Count when something happens. No matter if you look, you don't really want to make the report or make the paper trail, but you kind of have to because the cops will say to you, well, until you die or you're actually injured, we can't do anything, make the paper trail because, like.

[Julia Benzival]

She'S eventually going to steal your kids from you. And you need some evidence to say, like. Like, someday maybe your kids will snap out of this or this will help them snap out of it, you know.

[Patrick Hines]

Especially knowing that someone's in a cult. Like, no one did anything wrong here. Cheryl's the one doing anything wrong. But, like, if we're going to, like, tell these stories is like maybe a learning process for everyone. Like, oh, if someone. If your ex wife is in a cult and you know that she's trying to kill you, maybe like, let people know.

[Julia Benzival]

Well, and that is the hope is that, like, situations like this are always worse than you think they are when you're not the person in the cult. You can't just let this cult leader be, like, raising your kids 50% of the time, because what she is, how she is brainwashing and abusing them when you're not around, you're just not aware of it. So it's like what you're saying. Like, this reaches a lot of people. If this, if this, if you're the person that, like, has the ex that's in the cult with the kids, do something about it.

[Patrick Hines]

Or also, big or small, it doesn't have to be an actual cult, but if you have someone, like, that's what Mary, our cat lover, like, that's how she sort of ends this. It's like if someone is manipulating you and isolating you, like, just like, look at the signs.

[Julia Benzival]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Because this doesn't have to be like an official cult for you to get sucked into someone's bullshit.

[Julia Benzival]

Totally.

[Patrick Hines]

So to the surprise of no one, Cheryl is the worst.

[Julia Benzival]

Like, and even Rick figures it out. Rick leaves her.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And like, like all cult leaders, you can't question her in any way. She's always yelling, always fighting.

[Beth Karras]

She publicly humiliated people all time. The if you spoke illy about her and she found out, she would admonish you in front of everybody and embarrass you.

[Mary Lancaster]

I watched her humiliate men in front of their wives by making false accusations.

[Patrick Hines]

She'd lie and then she'd laugh maniacally, which we have to hear from this creepy audio from 2009.

[Julia Benzival]

Also, like, her speaking voice is very. Like, she needs to do some breath work because her speaking voice is very airy and it feels. Or maybe she just does a lot of talking and, like, you know, tired.

[Patrick Hines]

I think she's just screaming all the time.

[Julia Benzival]

Oh, my God, she's just screaming.

[Patrick Hines]

Listening to her all the time.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So I'm like, Beth, charismatic, you say?

[Julia Benzival]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Manipulative is the word.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So let's go back to 1984 when Mark's mother tells him to go meet that gal working down at Nordstrom and that's how he meets Cheryl.

[Julia Benzival]

I like, that was that really struck me. It whenever like even mother God was once like worked at the local McDonald's. Remember like they do start out with normal jobs.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julia Benzival]

You know.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. It never starts out this way.

[Julia Benzival]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Obviously.

[Julia Benzival]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

So it's, you know, 1984, Mark is 23. They date for six months. They get married.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

After 10 months they have their first kid, then they have the rest of their kids.

[Julia Benzival]

I was like, that 10 month story sounds like some fuzzy math, you know what I mean? I wonder if the reason the marriage came so fast was like, you know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

So Mark was a Christian. Cheryl wasn't religious until she discovered Gates of Praise. This is one of those like demons and speaking in tongues and like a lot of theater.

[Julia Benzival]

But it gets really lesbian really fast. Like it's. She just a lesbian and like she's like, she's in such deep denial.

[Patrick Hines]

100.

[Julia Benzival]

Okay.

[Patrick Hines]

That's a major part of this.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Because Debbie lynch was the head of that cult.

[Julia Benzival]

They are banging in seconds.

[Patrick Hines]

Like Mark says that they were obsessed with each other. He goes, it was almost like an affair. He's not sure if they were ever physical with each other. And I'm like, mark, I'm going to go with yes.

[Julia Benzival]

They definitely were.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julia Benzival]

And like when fam. We're not just saying that out of nowhere. We have evidence to back it up down the road.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. That's absolutely what's happening.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And so Cheryl loved the attention, she loved the power. And in 2001 she ditched Debbie and go solo.

[Julia Benzival]

Let me ask you a question. Organization, like Gates of Praise or whatever Cheryl calls hers in a second where they, they only have like 125 followers or whatever. It's a small number, but they, they're like an organized. Are they all cults? Is every one of them a cult?

[Patrick Hines]

You're asking me? Yeah, in a sense, I think so.

[Julia Benzival]

Is that like the definite, like can you have your own teeny tiny religion that only these certain people believe in and it's not a cult? Like, and then I guess part B of the question is like, are all cults evil and bad?

[Patrick Hines]

Yes. Because by definition I believe you're asking me this on the fly. I'm not googling this right now. But I believe that a cult by definition is all coercive control in some way. I would venture to say my opinion, my feeling as a spiritual person who wants you to believe safely and healthily and everything you believe in. I believe in prayer. I believe in all of that. But I do think on some Level, all religions can be taken to cult status.

[Julia Benzival]

Sure. Because it's like this Gates of Praise thing. How does everybody going into this not know this is a cult?

[Patrick Hines]

I think a lot of people like the ritual of it. I do. I do think a lot.

[Julia Benzival]

And they're looking for community. Like, that's how people end up in cults in the first place. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And I think a lot of people. There's a lot of really attractive elements to it in some way. And then I think then you get, like, fundamentalists, or then you just get, like, really strict, and no one's having any fun, and then it goes kind of around the bend. But that doesn't necessarily mean it's a cult. It just means that, like, can you lighten up?

[Julia Benzival]

Well, because even in this one, everybody says about all of these little religions that turn into cults, like, in the.

[Mary Lancaster]

Beginning, it was a place that you wanted to go because you felt that freedom. You felt that warmth. You felt that acceptance.

[Julia Benzival]

It started out so fun. Like, that's how it does. Always starts.

[Patrick Hines]

It always does.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Because everyone's, like, looking for something, you know, and then, like, they're getting it in the first six weeks.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah. So that's what happens here. Debbie in Gates of Praise makes Cheryl an associate pastor, like, pretty quickly. And, like, this is where Cheryl becomes drunk on power, because all of a sudden, she loves this position of leadership. She doesn't want to be the second banana. She's got to go out and start her own thing.

[Patrick Hines]

So she ditches Debbie.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Go solo. And she starts Freedom Fire Ministries, which definitely sounds like a cult.

[Julia Benzival]

I mean, Gates of Praise, Freedom Fire Ministries, they are the cultiest culting sounds.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, are you kidding me? And, like, you know, she just wants power and attention. It's not even about religion. It's just about her.

[Julia Benzival]

Yes. Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And, like, God was speaking through her. And as we have all these people talking about how charming she was, there's audio of her screaming.

[Julia Benzival]

I know. Like Jim Jones. They're always, always screaming.

[Patrick Hines]

And it reminded me, as I'm screaming as you. Well, please. But it reminded me of this moment in Big Love. If you'll allow me, please. So we're at the compound, right.

[Julia Benzival]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

And so one of the true believers of Harry Dean Stanton playing Roman Grant, though, like, he's like a false prophet in Big Love. That's not a spoiler. Like, he's just, like, the bad guy. So they're the compound. And, like, the one of the true believers of him is screaming to other true Believers on the compound. Roman Grant is the one true prophet, blah, blah, Just, like, ranting and raving, getting in everyone's face. And it's like, girl, we get it. We live on the compound. Like, we agree. And at one point, Lois Henriksen just, like, walks by and she goes, oh, Patsy, shut up. And it just reminded me of, like, doesn't stop. Like, just so over and exasperated. Patsy, shut up. You know that a couple times Mary wanted to be like, cheryl, shut up.

[Julia Benzival]

Shut up.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, even we're here. We get it. Could you not?

[Julia Benzival]

That just made me think, have you seen this?

[Patrick Hines]

I love. I love that scene so much. It is such an underrated scene. All my big love, people. Like, please tell me it is so fudge.

[Julia Benzival]

Oh, my God. It just made me think. There was a TikTok of these people skiing. We're talking about skiing again. And they're like, one person is trying to take a picture of his wife, and they're stopped. And, like, in between the man down.

[Patrick Hines]

The middle of the slope, in the.

[Julia Benzival]

Middle of the mountain, and that feels. Or it's like at the bottom of.

[Patrick Hines]

The mountain, even it feels even more dangerous.

[Julia Benzival]

In the middle of them, like, comes this older woman careening. She goes, I can't stop. Oh, no. And then is she okay? But then the man behind her. No, it's the man. He goes, I can't stop. And then behind him is his older wife. Earl.

[Patrick Hines]

Earl. We're back to Earl. Are they all right?

[Julia Benzival]

I think so, but it's Earl.

[Patrick Hines]

This is why I don't go skiing.

[Julia Benzival]

Going 900 miles an hour and they can't stop.

[Patrick Hines]

This is why we don't go snowing.

[Julia Benzival]

It's terrifying. I know.

[Patrick Hines]

It's very scary. I know. Although I would go snowboarding. I have gone snowboarding. Really? Yeah.

[Julia Benzival]

I fell on a party barge. Okay.

[Patrick Hines]

No, I fell on a lot of ice and had a bruised, like, literal bruised tailbone. And I was like, well, okay, everyone else looks a lot co. Which could be said for literally anything in the world. Everyone looks cooler. You're doing it.

[Julia Benzival]

You're getting nothing. Bruised on a party barge. Is all I'm saying is maybe your ego. That's it.

[Patrick Hines]

A lot can be bruised on a party barge. So Cheryl took things from every religion and yelled at you about it?

[Julia Benzival]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And, like, this train is never late. But there was a lot of talk of end times. We hear it's always about the end times. There was a sense of dread, fun.

[Julia Benzival]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Sounds so fun and charming.

[Julia Benzival]

That's the thing. Cause they're saying, like, we're doing like, Christianity and we're doing mysticism and we're in the woods praying to, like, you know, the mother Goddess. And I'm like, oh, that sounds fun.

[Patrick Hines]

Sorry. That's like the ideal way, I think, to do religion. Take what works, leave what doesn't.

[Julia Benzival]

Then Lesbian Mary is the one who tells us all of that. And then she's like, but there was also so much dread and we were so sad. And I was like, oh, how do you manage to do that? Like, take the lesbians to the middle of the forest and talk about the fairies and praying to the Mother Earth or whatever and then. But.

[Patrick Hines]

But it's sad because everything had or else at the end of it.

[Julia Benzival]

Uh huh.

[Patrick Hines]

That's why. And it was just breeding fear. And she's the true prophet. It's like, there is no true prophet.

[Julia Benzival]

No, but then why do people believe it? Once again, it's not their fault for believing it, but why do people believe it?

[Patrick Hines]

Because people like Roman GR Tell and.

[Julia Benzival]

You people are looking for community and they're looking for meaning and they're looking. I get it.

[Patrick Hines]

And then, like, they get trapped and we'll get into that.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So Mark doesn't buy it. So Cheryl needs to get rid of Mark.

[Julia Benzival]

When Mark and Cheryl were still married.

[Patrick Hines]

And this is when she has Mark arrested on a fake domestic abuse claim.

[Julia Benzival]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

And while Mark is sitting in jail, he's like, you know what? I need a divorce lawyer.

[Julia Benzival]

Because he'd been saying that he was looking for a way to get out of this marriage because Cheryl was going crazy. The kids were still very young. He was trying to figure a slow way out. But when she lies and has him arrested for like, a battery charge he didn't do, that's when he's like, I'm out.

[Patrick Hines]

And then brainwashing the kids at dinner about how to kill him. Yes, I think I'm out.

[Julia Benzival]

Yes. Travel down the road Back again, girl it's summertime. It's getting hot out there. It is time to refresh the old wardrobe with Quinn.

[Patrick Hines]

The thing about Quince, their clothes are timeless. They are lightweight and they're really elevated. And also, like, you're buying things that are going to last you for a long time. We're not doing that fast fashion. We're not doing stuff that's going to fall apart.

[Julia Benzival]

No, no. We're talking 100% European linen shorts and dresses from 30 bucks luxe swimwear, Italian leather platform sandals and so much more. I know. This is the Ladies read this week, but Steve just ordered a whole bunch of stuff for his upcoming summer trip. He got a linen shirt, linen pair of pants. Really, really freaking cute on him.

[Patrick Hines]

My nylon crossbody bag. I will talk about it. I will scream it from the rooftops. It's my favorite everyday bag.

[Julia Benzival]

The best part about quints is everything with quince is half the cost of similar, similar brands.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes. And Quint only works with factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices and premium fabrics and finishes.

[Julia Benzival]

We love quints. We always have loved quince. Quince is like, literally our go to when we need, like, the wardrobe refresh.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Benzival]

And fam. You can give your summer closet an upgrade with quints as well. Just go to Quince.com TCO for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns.

[Patrick Hines]

That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com TCO to get free shipping and 365 day returns.

[Julia Benzival]

Quince.com TCO don't let Steve Tipton be the only one out there wearing it.

[Patrick Hines]

No, you already look great.

[Julia Benzival]

You do.

[Patrick Hines]

Let's talk about Rod. Rod is the ex husband of a cult member. His wife is still in the cult.

[Julia Benzival]

And he lives in British Columbia, Canada.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And so his wife was secretly going to the cult, and then one day dropped it on him out of the blue. And she's like, I want you to come to this cult with me. And Rod goes, and literally it was.

[Julia Benzival]

Like an or else. Because he says, like, the first three years of our marriage were great. Then I found out my wife was secretly going to this cult. And when I agreed to go with her, things had gone from bad to, like, amazing. All of a sudden, like, he's the apple of her eye again. She's in love with what she wants. Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

Cause, like, because Peter did what she.

[Julia Benzival]

Wanted, and then by virtue of, like, she did what Cheryl wanted. It's all about pleasing Cheryl.

[Patrick Hines]

It's so annoying.

[Julia Benzival]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Because it's all the same shit, right? And it's like you're pleasing this woman who's screaming at you. Rod's like, she was really big on come on, people. That was her big word.

[Julia Benzival]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Or her big phrase.

[Julia Benzival]

But he tells this story that, like, he's going to this cult with a kind of a skeptical eye, but he wants to make his wife happy. But one day he's there, and on the altar, Cheryl's got this pitcher of water and this big thing of salt, and she dumps the salt into the water and then she Tells everyone that they need to come up and drink it to, like, cleanse their soul.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, it's a union kind of thing.

[Julia Benzival]

Yes. And he instantly thinks.

[Patrick Hines]

I can't help but think back in.

[Julia Benzival]

My mind about the Jonestown experience and.

[Patrick Hines]

How Jim Jones had run many trial.

[Julia Benzival]

Runs prior to the poisoning of all his people that had that followed him.

[Patrick Hines]

This was a trial run. He calls this a trial run because.

[Julia Benzival]

He'S saying that Jim Jones and Jonestown and that whole thing. We went with the Kool Aid.

[Patrick Hines]

It's why we don't make oh, drink the Kool Aid jokes. Cause we realized they were forcing the kids to drink it and all this horrible.

[Julia Benzival]

But he remembers that Jim Jones did a bunch of trial runs where he would pretend that it was laced with poison to see who would do it. And Rod says this reminded him of that. And he said she was watching to see if there was any dissenters who wouldn't drink the salt water. And there weren't any. Everybody did it.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Julia Benzival]

Including him.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And then he was like, wait a second.

[Julia Benzival]

But that was when he had his eye on her. That was when he was like, I knew that things were bad when this happened because it's so clearly a cult.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. And he. He wasn't in it deep enough yet that he could. He could see the similarities in another very famous deadly cult.

[Julia Benzival]

Yes. And now, once again, Rod. His wife, is taking their children to the cult. So it's not just the wife, it's the kids. And he's starting to lose his wife and his kids to this cult.

[Patrick Hines]

I just had a weird thought. What if we, like. Because I instantly went from, like, that should be illegal.

[Julia Benzival]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

But then they hide behind, like, you can't tell me what to do with my religion. Like, would some of this go away if we just started taxing the churches?

[Julia Benzival]

Oh, my God. I mean, I bet. I bet the churches themselves would go away because it would no longer be a profitable business.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. Like, if we just started taxing churches.

[Julia Benzival]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Then.

[Julia Benzival]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Could we get rid of some cults? Because then somehow, like, and they'd all go to prison.

[Julia Benzival]

You know what I mean? Like, all the cult leaders would go to prison because that's where all the. That's where all the money is. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

You guys just go into the woods with Mother Earth and, like, be nice to people and love yourself and love others and do nice things.

[Julia Benzival]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, how can I help?

[Julia Benzival]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

You don't need any of this.

[Julia Benzival]

How quickly does that have to turn into like. And don't Sleep and give me all your money.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, or else. Why are you saying or else? At the end of any of these sentences, the fairies are hanging out. Although, don't fuck with the fairies.

[Julia Benzival]

Don't fuck with the fairies. But put a pin in Rod. We'll come back to him. Right now, things are okay, but he's starting to, like, see the light.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Benzival]

And we're back in Tennessee with Mary the lesbian.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. And the former cult member with all the cats.

[Julia Benzival]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So she was born into a conservative Christian family, she's gay, and she knew it from a young age that she had to hide her true identity. Hi. Please never make your kids feel this way. Please.

[Julia Benzival]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, please stop doing that.

[Julia Benzival]

I know. No matter how much we beg, it's.

[Patrick Hines]

Never going to love and accept your kids.

[Julia Benzival]

I know. It sounds so easy, right?

[Patrick Hines]

It's like, it's. I mean, that's why you had them, right? To love and accept them.

[Julia Benzival]

Exactly right. But she tells us it was in 2004. She's 27. She starts attending Cheryl's church. And she's the one who tells us it was joyful. It was so fun. Her sister Rachel joined with her at the same time.

[Patrick Hines]

It was great because she explained. Mary explains, at a very young age.

[Beth Karras]

I knew I had to hide my true self. My first crush was on the girl in first grade, and I was in kindergarten. But because of the religious upbringing, I just knew I needed to hide that part of me.

[Patrick Hines]

She was always at the altar trying to pray the gay away.

[Julia Benzival]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And by 17 years old, like, so she had this horrible negative reaction about how a church wasn't accepting her and religion wasn't accepting her. And on top of that, at 17 years old, Mary teaches herself how to play piano.

[Julia Benzival]

And that's pivotal here, because one day she's in church with Cheryl and she's playing, and Cheryl really takes an interest because she's amazing. She sings a little bit for us, but she sounds incredible.

[Patrick Hines]

And Cheryl's like, oh, this is my way in.

[Julia Benzival]

Yes. And so Cheryl says to Mary, when you play music, people are going to hear it. You're going to change lives and touch souls. And Mary is like, that's all I wanted. All I wanted was to, like, make a difference doing my music and being in a. In an environment where I was, like, celebrated and accepted. Right.

[Patrick Hines]

So Mary opens up a little bit, and Cheryl swoops in and completely manipulates that.

[Julia Benzival]

And then Mary instantly falls in love with Cheryl. And Cheryl tells this crazy story that one night, Cheryl invites Mary into the church, it's just them. They're at the altar. They're kneeling. The lights are low. It's candlelight. And Cheryl says, we need to go into covenant. And she says, it's not a marriage exactly. It's more like we're doing the work of the Lord together, but the only way we can get there is if we kiss.

[Patrick Hines]

Now, this is abuse because she's using manipulation to get sex. This is 100% sexual abuse.

[Julia Benzival]

Yes. Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Also, real quick, I just want to drop in here. Mary's sister Rachel is also in the cult.

[Julia Benzival]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

That's is important.

[Julia Benzival]

Yes. Mary is psyched. She looks at Cheryl. She thinks she's beautiful. She's the wife of Jesus or whatever. She's gonna get to be with her.

[Patrick Hines]

Mary's like, oh, my God, I found the love of my life. And Cheryl is like, no homo.

[Julia Benzival]

Literally.

[Patrick Hines]

Literally. She's like, this is not homosexual. This is from God. I was like, why can't we do both?

[Julia Benzival]

And what Mary is saying is that.

[Beth Karras]

Like, there would be services where she would preach against homosexuality. Then a couple nights later, like, yeah, we're banging.

[Julia Benzival]

And they would be like, 5, 6, 7, 8, come to my window on the record player, and they are banging.

[Patrick Hines]

Literally the word banging.

[Julia Benzival]

Like, literally she says banging. They banging all night long. They're doing the lesbian sex.

[Patrick Hines]

This is abuse because Mary's being manipulated by Cheryl and being lied to. But Mary was like, I was conflicted, but I also didn't care because I was really hot for Cheryl.

[Julia Benzival]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So Mary had, like, a lot as she feels accepted in a religion. She's sharing her music and she can kind of be herself. She's thinking and feeling and, like, there's a lot going on for Mary. And I have to say, like, based on everything we learned and what she went through, for her to sit here in her real self so strongly is incredibly powerful.

[Julia Benzival]

And it feels to me like that's the kind of person Mary has always been. She loves to live in her authenticity, which is why she struggled so much when she couldn't come out and, like, be who she really was. And that's probably why she found this cult, because she was looking for a place where she could go and be herself. She was looking for community.

[Patrick Hines]

Also, this confirms that Cheryl was definitely sleeping with Debbie from the other church.

[Julia Benzival]

No question.

[Patrick Hines]

And the cycle of abuse continues.

[Julia Benzival]

No question. But, like, she even abused Rick. Like, she used her sexuality to get Rick to almost fucking kill her ex husband.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, yeah. Like, what else is she doing to people? We aren't speaking to exactly. What else don't we know that? What else was she doing? Because she manipulates people differently, like yet in the same way.

[Julia Benzival]

And Beth Caris says a thousand times throughout this documentary, that's her gift, is she knows what people need. You know, she knows what they need and she's able to like quickly give it to them.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. So four months after the abuse starts and Cheryl starts having sex with Mary.

[Julia Benzival]

I am just hearing come to my window blasting. I know as like the bed is squeaking so good. I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Cheryl dumps Mary.

[Julia Benzival]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And Mary's devastated, but Mary like. So now this is another way to like emotionally break you down. Yeah. Because Cheryl knows Mary's never gonna leave.

[Julia Benzival]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

And Mary's too scared to leave. So now she's like falling in love and now she's break, she's broken her down. And now Mary has to like bow down to her abuser and this person she thought she loved and still listen to everything she says. Because Mary's like, if I leave this cult, I will die.

[Julia Benzival]

She literally thinks that Mary is so connected to Jesus that if she leave that if Mary leaves the cult, God will strike her down. Yes, she really, really believes that.

[Patrick Hines]

Now we meet son John, who's the worst, Cheryl's ex boyfriend and a real piece of work. And before he says anything, he goes.

[Julia Benzival]

I'd like you to tell me what you hear ringing.

[Patrick Hines]

It's not done yet. Not done yet. Guess what? The answer's still going to be ringing.

[Julia Benzival]

I know. I hate this guy, so. And all he wants to do is talk about how hot Cheryl was. They met on a website called spiritual singles in 2009. She had her own church. And basically like we see this guy for 2 seconds. Cuz when she couldn't, she manipulates him in one aspect where like she wants to be with him. But she comes to his house and he's got this what he calls beautiful art. And some of them are nudes. And she gets him to take all the art and burn them in the backyard.

[Patrick Hines]

Like $50,000 worth of art just destroyed. And this is when it hit me. Is insecurity the root of all evil?

[Julia Benzival]

Probably.

[Patrick Hines]

I was really asking like on some level doesn't it all come back to that?

[Julia Benzival]

Right?

[Patrick Hines]

Like she's so insecure that this guy can't have his on the wall.

[Julia Benzival]

He can't have like paintings of nude women that aren't her.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, does it all come down to that? Like all these cult leaders, like you can't question them, you can't just have a constructive conversation. Like, is insecurity the root of all evil?

[Julia Benzival]

No. Yeah, for sure. It's. It's insecurity that's matched with an ability to pretend that you have self confidence because none of these people actually do.

[Patrick Hines]

It's wild.

[Julia Benzival]

But it's like Mary is able to, like, she's able to make people believe that she believes all of her own.

[Patrick Hines]

Shit and do things because she gets off on that power that, like, I got him to destroy this $50,000 painting.

[Julia Benzival]

And it's once again using her sex because all he wants to do is sleep with her. And then, like, in order to do that, he's got to burn $50,000 worth of art, which he does, and then they no longer have any use for each other. And like, series rap on, son John.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, it's very Jenna Maroney using my sexuality.

[Julia Benzival]

I love her.

[Patrick Hines]

Right? Isn't that her whole thing? Yeah, she uses her sexuality totally.

[Mary Lancaster]

Travel down the road.

[Julia Benzival]

Back again, girl. Earn in is back. Look, fam, life doesn't happen bi weekly, so why should Payday, the money you earn can be in your hands today with Earn in, it's what it's all about.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Let me tell you a little bit about this whole. So, Earn in is an app that gives you access to your pay as you work up to $150 per day with a max of 750 bucks between paydays.

[Julia Benzival]

All you gotta do, just download the Earn in app and verify your paycheck. Then access up to 150 bucks a day as you work and leave an optional tip. Any money you access, plus tips are automatically repaid from your next paycheck.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, it's so easy.

[Julia Benzival]

Think about your life, right? Maybe you need new stuff for the kids for summer. Maybe you're going on a date night. Maybe you just want that new pair of, like, summer sandals. You like your money. You've already earned it. You should have it when you want.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, you should have it, like right now. If you so choose.

[Julia Benzival]

If that's what you want and I want it so, fam. Download Earn It Today, spelled E A R, N I N in Google Play or the Apple App Store.

[Patrick Hines]

When you download the Earn an app, type in True Crime Obsessed under Podcast when you sign up. It'll really help the show. Yes, True Crime Obsessed under podcast.

[Julia Benzival]

Earn in is a financial technology company, not a bank. Cash outs are based on your available earnings. Standard cash outs take one to two business days with no, no mandatory fees.

[Patrick Hines]

Option to expedite your Transfer for a fee. Tips are voluntary and don't affect the service.

[Julia Benzival]

See the cash out user agreement for details. Services not available in all states.

[Patrick Hines]

Go treat yourself. Okay, we're finally up to the cats, everyone.

[Julia Benzival]

Oh, thank God.

[Patrick Hines]

So Cheryl, as Cheryl was taking everything from all different religions.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

One day everyone is told they have to adopt all the cats.

[Julia Benzival]

I love that Beth Caris is the one to give us, like, the religion. The religion lecture on how, like, cats in religion is not a new thing.

[Patrick Hines]

And it's not. Thank you, Beth. Much appreciated. We know.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah. But I'm also like, Beth, I like, I'm. I love that Beth seems to know everything.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Benzival]

Well, and the thing is, like, we would talk about this. I did a couple episodes of that. History's Greatest Mysteries. They give you a packet this fucking thick that you have to memorize. So I'm sure that they gave Beth, like, Beth was like, like highlighting the part on cats and religion, you know?

[Patrick Hines]

You know when, like, even at the end of shows like this, it's like, written by.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah, totally.

[Patrick Hines]

Some producer was like, I don't think.

[Julia Benzival]

That Beth Caris has like a minor in like, religious studies from B.

[Patrick Hines]

No. But also, you don't need a minor to know that cats are everywhere. Especially like the ancient Egypt.

[Julia Benzival]

Like, no, Like, I guess you do.

[Patrick Hines]

You would know, like, if you're like, oh, yeah. If you saw like something from the Met or the Museum of Natural History, like, and you'd be like, wow, there are a lot of cats in these paintings.

[Mary Lancaster]

They're saying now cat obsession in religion isn't entirely new. For example, the ancient Egyptians believed that cats were vessels that could be inhabited by their gods.

[Julia Benzival]

Cats would be inhabited by their gods or whatever.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Benzival]

That's a thing.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julia Benzival]

Why cats? Why not monkeys?

[Patrick Hines]

I think there's a lot of beliefs. I mean, there were, you know, but no, cats have always been like a major part of religion. Yeah. I mean, especially I know the Egyptian. Like, you're giving me a lot of credit.

[Julia Benzival]

I thank you for thinking that I know these smart things. Oh, I went to theater school. I. You know.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, God. So because Cheryl has to do everything to the extreme, like, she does it here. So, like, again, at first it sounds good. Great. Save the cats. One day you too will be saved. I'm like, I call it karma Cheryl, but whatever.

[Julia Benzival]

Well, speaking of, we're at Ava's Eden.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, Cheryl has rebranded the cults now. It's Eva's Eden. It's a cage free shelter for cats. So they.

[Julia Benzival]

Which is like. Sounds great. On its face.

[Patrick Hines]

Sounds great. Like, they'd go around Washington saving the cats, take care of them, nurse them back to help if needed, help them find loving homes. Like, again, it all sounds great. And like, it always sounds great in the beginning, even when it's a rebrand.

[Julia Benzival]

But explain to me why she has to do this. So Cheryl then insists volunteers would pick.

[Beth Karras]

Up between 30 to 50 cats, sometimes more.

[Mary Lancaster]

Cheryl would stand up and say, when you take these cats home, they are your number one priority. They come before your husbands and wives, and they come before your children.

[Patrick Hines]

The cats have to come first, above everyone else. If you have children, fuck the kids. The cats come first. They were fed first. They were kept in these pristine conditions, allegedly. Which we will learn is not at.

[Julia Benzival]

All true, but it's also not possible.

[Patrick Hines]

She'd then make it a competition. Like, I have 35 cats and office space. Like, the pieces of flair. She's like, if you want me to add 37 pieces of flair, just tell me. The minimum is 15. I have 15. Like, please. So, like, people were. People had over 50 cats.

[Julia Benzival]

I know. And this is where, like, Connie's been with us throughout. But Connie is, like, really going.

[Patrick Hines]

Connie was losing it. She's like, there's no way you can keep your. Yourself or your home or your cats or anyone clean.

[Julia Benzival]

It's like the cats are destroying that now. We had cats for a long time. We had two. And we've talked about this in all the pretty litter ads. It's impossible to keep a litter box clean as fresh as possible, even with two cats. And Connie's, like, we would have litter boxes. We'd have, like, five in every room. The house smelled like a combination of bleach, cat piss, and litter box. It literally makes you go insane.

[Patrick Hines]

It's, like, abusive to the people. It's abusive to the cats. It's like, she. You know, Connie's miserable. She's crying all the time. She was just having meltdowns. Like, you can't. Because then, like. And then you go to, like, the cult or whatever these people do every day to be, like, screamed at by Cheryl. And then you come home to this house, like, this house of abuse. It's just like, it would make your.

[Julia Benzival]

Head spin because if you didn't take the number of cats Cheryl wanted you to take, she would publicly humiliate you.

[Patrick Hines]

And, like, you'd be exiled and you'd lose your house and you'd lose everything.

[Julia Benzival]

And they said the Connie's. Like, when people would say no to her, they would get kicked out of the cult, they would lose their house, lose their job, lose their footing. She goes, I don't know how she did it. She just had the connections.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, what?

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So Cheryl's whole thing is like, the.

[Mary Lancaster]

Cats were important to Cheryl because they were to be the vessels that would send all of us. I guess the cats would eventually turn into a human.

[Patrick Hines]

These cats will eventually turn into humans. And I'm like, are you telling me that I have to have 50 cats? And then one day they're all gonna become a person?

[Julia Benzival]

Like 50 cats.

[Patrick Hines]

So now I have 50 people in my house.

[Julia Benzival]

Oh my God.

[Patrick Hines]

And Connie's like, look, man, I don't know. It didn't make sense then. It doesn't make sense now. I can't explain it.

[Julia Benzival]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And then Connie says, connie, love you for this. She went from being a woman of God to a nutcase. Like Connie. It was not a long jump. No, out. A nutcase. She was just hiding it.

[Julia Benzival]

And Connie says, like, this is when the cult is. They start to turn on each other. Because Connie's like, I was at such a low point. I was losing my mind. She's like, I wanted to get out. I didn't know what to do. I went to a friend who was in the cult.

[Patrick Hines]

She tells her husband. Her husband's like, fuck yeah, let's go.

[Julia Benzival]

And. But she goes with the friend. The friend, like, holds her and lets her cry, like all afternoon. And then Connie gets home. She's not home 15 minutes before Cheryl is knocking on the fucking door to scream at her because the friend called Cheryl the second Connie left her house. Why did you do this to each other?

[Patrick Hines]

Ratted her out big time.

[Julia Benzival]

But like, even Mary's going to say her and her sister Rachel were so tight, they were such, such good friends when they start to lose it themselves. They couldn't even talk to their sister about never.

[Patrick Hines]

You couldn't up. You can't trust anyone.

[Julia Benzival]

Oh my God.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, you get.

[Julia Benzival]

You'd be a lockbox if we got stuck in a cold. I would know that I could talk to you.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh yeah, you wouldn't know. Cuz I'd be doing it to like, take notes and get it shut down.

[Julia Benzival]

You'd be Elizabeth Mossing. We'd be out of there. You get, you'd get. Look what you made me do. Taylor's version. And we'd be out in five seconds.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm too scared to watch Handmaid's Tale.

[Julia Benzival]

Me too. No, me too. I'm too scared.

[Patrick Hines]

So I. I don't know I know she's in it. I don't know the reference, but I'm like. It feels. It feels like it would maybe be the best idea for my mental health at this moment in time.

[Julia Benzival]

I don't know if I've ever told you this, but the original. There was an original movie in the 90s of the Handmaid's Tale was a mo. It was a movie, not. Not a series.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Benzival]

I don't know the lore of the thing, but, like, one of the main characters homes was the Peterson home. The Michael Peterson. Kathleen Peterson.

[Patrick Hines]

What?

[Julia Benzival]

And there is a stuffing.

[Patrick Hines]

The one, like the movie from the 90s.

[Julia Benzival]

Yes. There's a scene shot on the staircase.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God.

[Julia Benzival]

You can YouTube it. It's there. One of the Handmaids is coming down the staircase that Kathleen Peterson eventually dies.

[Patrick Hines]

On when he was still living there.

[Julia Benzival]

I think this was before the Petersons owned it. Oh, but it was. But it was like, yeah, it's shot in the Peterson house. You can YouTube it. It's wild.

[Patrick Hines]

That's crazy. Yeah, that's crazy. So here's what's happening. The cat rescue is a front for the cult. Everyone knows it.

[Julia Benzival]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Especially the people in the cult. And people had upwards of 30, 50 cats in. Everyone's miserable. Everyone's being abused. The cats, the humans.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah. So now we jump back in time to be with Mary and Mark. So Mark, remember, is Cheryl's ex husband. And Mary was saying, like, we were trying so hard to, like, stay on good terms with Mark's kids, who are half in the cult and half with Mark, and. But it got to the point that they. They couldn't do it anymore. And Mark says to Mary, if I.

[Mary Lancaster]

Ever saw his children, that I should run the other way and call 911, because there was only one reason why they would be here, and that would be to kill me.

[Julia Benzival]

The only reason they would be here would be to kill you.

[Patrick Hines]

Can you imagine?

[Julia Benzival]

No, but, like, that is like. And those poor kids that are, like, they're now adults, but, like, they've been so abused and brainwashed all their lives that there's even the idea that they would be trained to kill. It's insane. And it's heartbreaking. Like, as a parent, watching yourself lose your children and have no control over it. It's horrible.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. By, like, the person that you thought you were gonna raise them with. And it's not, you know, it's not just by any cult, which would be hard enough, but it' like, you were married to this woman, like, that's their mother who should be taking care of them, and.

[Julia Benzival]

Right. Cause it's twofold. You've lost your kids, and also, you know that they've been brainwashed and abused.

[Patrick Hines]

By this person who betrayed all of you.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So Mary wants to leave, but she's.

[Julia Benzival]

Like, marry the lesbian.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, Mary the lesbian. She's like, but one, Cheryl will ruin my life. And two, she doesn't want to leave her sister Rachel, who's also in the cult.

[Julia Benzival]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

So we're at movie night. They all go see the Da Vinci Code together.

[Julia Benzival]

The whole cult goes to see the Da Vinci Code together.

[Patrick Hines]

And this is, weirdly, a major turning point.

[Julia Benzival]

So the thing is, you haven't seen it, so it's hard to explain it, but, like, it's a fascinating movie. And, like, in the movie and it's. I'm sorry. It's a book that was made into a movie. And in the story of the Da Vinci Code, Mary Magdalene is not a sex worker as she is thought to be in the Bible. She's actually Jesus's wife. And the whole thing is about the bloodline of Jesus that, like, was secretly hidden. Mary and Jesus had a kid, and then that kid was spirited away. And the bloodline of Jesus, like, has lived on to modern times, like, to this day. Okay, but so Mary Magdalene becomes, like, an incredibly important person in the history of Christianity. And so now, after seeing the movie.

[Beth Karras]

And that is probably the pivotal point of Cheryl beginning to say she is Mary Magdalene. She has come back to the earth now as Cheryl, but she truly is Mary Magdalene.

[Julia Benzival]

I'm absolutely Mary Magdalene.

[Patrick Hines]

But then five seconds after that, she's like, you know what? Scratch that. I'm actually Jesus, and I'm gonna be putting my blood and all the wine, and everyone is forced to drink it.

[Julia Benzival]

Literally, she's cutting her hand at communion in her church and making everybody drink her blood wine. And everybody does it like that with the salt. Oh, my God. It is. It is. That is blood chilling to me.

[Patrick Hines]

Disgusting.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Unsafe.

[Julia Benzival]

Yes, absolutely.

[Patrick Hines]

So Beth Caris is here to be like, what is the point of all this? What is the point of your cult? Like, why are you doing this? It feels like Cheryl doesn't even know. She just wants the attention and the money.

[Julia Benzival]

And it comes down to, like, attention and money. So we're back with Rod. Rod is the one who lives in British Columbia, and his wife, like, was like, hey, you got to come to the cult with me. And he's like, okay, well, yeah, he's the one that saw the Salt, like, that whole thing. And he's like, so what's happening now is Rod is like, we were expecting a tax return, and we were going to pay bills and save some money. Nope. The wife decides to what? The other thing I don't understand here. Why are we not naming the wife? Why are we not giving the wife's name and finding her?

[Patrick Hines]

I think maybe for, like, legal purposes, I think. I don't know. Because I don't know.

[Julia Benzival]

She's gonna abscond with their children. And, like, I'm like, we have an opportunity to, like, say her name and the children's name. Why aren't we doing that?

[Patrick Hines]

He must have been advised not to, for whatever reason. I don't know why.

[Julia Benzival]

Well, this is the beginning of it. Because she, like, takes the tax return without telling him, cashes the check and gives all the money to Cheryl.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Now we meet Carol, Rod's sister. This is another thank God you're here moment.

[Julia Benzival]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

You could just tell Carol is on top of it.

[Julia Benzival]

Well, because. What Beth cares makes the point that Rod has the one advantage that most people in the cult don't have, which is he's got people that are close to him that are not in the cult, that are good at researching and can sort of shake him by the shoulders and be like, what? What are you doing? You're in a cult.

[Patrick Hines]

Rod is also kind of halfway there. He's like, what's with the salt communion? Is this Jim Jones? Like, he. And he doesn't love the cult, and he's like, weird. My wife was only nice when I'm cool with the cult. And when I'm not cool with the cult, she's stealing our money. And she's stealing our money, which is a major red flag.

[Julia Benzival]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

So Rod is kind of, like, with it. So his sister Carol starts organizing. She's awesome. She starts organizing everything. She's taking notes. She's collecting all of the correspondence between the ex, the wife, and Cheryl. And like, everyone, Carol is on top.

[Julia Benzival]

Of it, which becomes very important because in September 2004, Rod's wife gives him an ultimatum. And he's. She says to him, you have until September 24th, which is basically seven days. Right. To submit to Cheryl and her teaching and leadership and turn the entire family finances over to me so I can turn them over to Cheryl. And if you don't do that thing within the next five days, I'm leaving and I'm taking the kids.

[Patrick Hines]

Now, what's interesting is that this was on a Saturday.

[Julia Benzival]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

On Monday, Rod goes to work as usual.

[Julia Benzival]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And I guess he thought she was bluffing or something. But, like, on Monday, I'd be at, like, the open government building to go take care of this. Rod.

[Julia Benzival]

Rod does not go to work.

[Patrick Hines]

So I'm only. And I'm not saying that in a bad way. I'm saying he must have not. He must have been like, well, I have four days left.

[Julia Benzival]

Right. And, like, we are going to see.

[Patrick Hines]

How to figure this the fuck out.

[Julia Benzival]

Right. Because the wife, we're going to learn, has been working on this for months and months. She's ready to go, but so is Carol, the sister.

[Patrick Hines]

So he comes home on Monday. Rod goes to work as usual on Monday. So this was Saturday. He has seven days. Monday, he goes to work.

[Julia Benzival]

And I came home from work and.

[Patrick Hines]

The house was empty.

[Julia Benzival]

And I went into my son's room, and there were all these goodbye cards. Everything's gone. The kids are gone. The shit is. Everything's gone.

[Patrick Hines]

Carol, the sister is like, that was Monday. By Tuesday, we were in court. Because I had all my research ready to go.

[Julia Benzival]

Yep.

[Patrick Hines]

Hell, yeah, Carol.

[Julia Benzival]

And, like, essentially, the judge 100% sides with Rod where the judge is like, I mean, it's Canada. Thank the Lord.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, you know, I was like, the judge actually does the right thing.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Because the judge forgot where we were for a second.

[Julia Benzival]

Right. The judge is like, she's terrifying. This whole cult is a danger to the kids. You've got 100% custody of the kids, which is great on paper, but nobody knows where the kids actually are.

[Patrick Hines]

And no one knows where the ex is. No one knows where the kids are. Rod. Rod has full custody, which honestly could only be bad for the wife, because if Ron. For many reasons, but, like, just follow me on this. Ron has full custody, and now she's taken his kids from him.

[Julia Benzival]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So with that decision being made without her knowledge, she just broke a bunch of laws simply by existing with the kids.

[Julia Benzival]

And somehow it gets back to her because she calls Rod and she's like, I'm coming home. I'm bringing the kids back. Only because the judge has mandated.

[Patrick Hines]

Because he's like, is she going to cross the border? She's going to leave the country? Like, what is going on now?

[Julia Benzival]

The wife, for the next six months, like, Rod and the wife are in counseling. She says, what?

[Patrick Hines]

This made me crazy. I was like, every. Like, Beth, Cara says this sentence, and I'm like, every word gets worse than the one before it. Rod sits through six months of counseling with a minister with the goal of reconciliation.

[Julia Benzival]

I know. No, absolutely not. Like counseling. I know. Boom, minister, boom.

[Patrick Hines]

Reconciliation. Like, it just. It just keeps getting worse. One minister, one of Cheryl's little lemmings. What are you talking about?

[Julia Benzival]

I know, I know, I know, I know. I always feel that way when there's, like, religious counseling. I'm like, can you just go to an actual therapist? I know, I know.

[Patrick Hines]

If you want to. Like, I need to get. That's different. But like, with the counseling, with a relationship. Who is this minister?

[Julia Benzival]

And that's what we keep saying, is that people don't. They're not realizing how dangerous these cults are. If you have a spouse or a partner and children and that spouse or partner is taking the kids to the cult, they are so far gone by the time you find out about it. You got to save the kids.

[Patrick Hines]

And guess what? The wife tricks Ron.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah. She's. For six months, she goes to this counseling with him saying they're going to get back together. She's not going to Cheryl. She's not seeing Cheryl. She's not in the cult.

[Patrick Hines]

It was probably a Minnesota that Rod chose, and the wife went along and lied the whole time.

[Julia Benzival]

Because what ends up happening is that Rod, thinking that they're in a good place, allows the kids. They're still separated, and he allows the kids to move permanently in with her while they, quote, look for another house together. She convinces him to let sign the papers.

[Patrick Hines]

She convinces him to let the kids change their primary address to her address.

[Julia Benzival]

And sign papers saying they're not going to get divorced anymore.

[Patrick Hines]

This is such a trap. And every single second for six months, she knew she was full of shit.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah. And so the second the papers are signed, she literally walks up to Rod in the backyard and is like, hey, guess what? She said, you know, I've been going.

[Patrick Hines]

To freedom fire the whole time.

[Julia Benzival]

I've now established status quo.

[Patrick Hines]

But the children here, and I'm keeping.

[Julia Benzival]

Them with me, you're never going to be able to undo this. The kids are mine and we are leaving.

[Patrick Hines]

Can you imagine?

[Julia Benzival]

No. And. And this is where Rod says, I was emotionally broken. I was financially broke. I didn't have the will or the means to fight. And I'm like, yes, you do, girl. You always do. You always have the means to fight for your kids. I know. I can only imagine. He felt like his legs were just cut out from underneath him.

[Patrick Hines]

He has no money. He has no money, no resources.

[Julia Benzival]

I just. You gotta. You always, always have to fight for your kids.

[Patrick Hines]

I agree. But like, this Is all part of what Cheryl does. It's all the same pattern. So she'll, like, divide and conquer. She causes drama or chaos or divorce. She lies, she brainwashes, and then she's the one who reaps the financial rewards.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Because even this wife who's stealing their tax return, the wife doesn't get it. It goes right to Cheryl.

[Julia Benzival]

It goes right to Chery.

[Patrick Hines]

And so the point is, Cheryl gets all of their money because she was forcing people to break up.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

She's getting all the divorce settlements, or people are just handing her hundreds of thousands of dollars.

[Julia Benzival]

Mary cashes out a retirement plan. I had to look up what the letters meant. It's a retirement plan for $100,000. She gets 58,000 of it to Cheryl.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Or taking their money. Or then forcing people to spend all of their money on the cats.

[Julia Benzival]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Which I'm saying, like, the cats, the animals deserve it. Like, they should have loving homes. But what Cheryl would do is, like, buy all these supplies at cost.

[Julia Benzival]

And if the cats for free, then charges 75 bucks a cat, as she's making you take them, she would be.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, well, they need kitty litter or whatever.

[Mary Lancaster]

We would have to buy particular cat food, the particular cat litter. And we had to buy it from Cheryl. Cheryl bought it in Watts. And then we were required to buy it from Eva Zeden. It was actually very costly.

[Patrick Hines]

And then make you, the cult member, buy it at this exorbitant price.

[Julia Benzival]

Yes. Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So let me. Can I just ask, what do you think Cheryl was doing with these millions of dollars? Making the world a better place.

[Julia Benzival]

No, she got better tits.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, she got tits. She's getting elective plastic surgery.

[Julia Benzival]

She got better tits. I was like, oh, but you know what, though? It's because she's got to use her sexuality to get these people to give her the money.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Benzival]

It's an investment in the business, girl.

[Patrick Hines]

But, like, not with everyone. So I'm just curious, like, what she was doing. Because she wasn't doing it with Connie.

[Julia Benzival]

No. Right, right.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, I just wonder what she. And, like. And the color, it doesn't matter because.

[Julia Benzival]

She was doing the equivalent with Connie. So, like, Mary the lesbian needed love and sex. Right. And so that's what she gave her.

[Patrick Hines]

And then took it away.

[Julia Benzival]

And then took it away. And so what Connie's equivalent to that was she gave it and took it away.

[Patrick Hines]

Of course. They're like masters at this.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So 2012, Connie's father, his health is in decline. He has Alzheimer's, and Connie has to leave the cult. She's like, fuck it. No. This kind of wakes her up of like, oh, my dad needs me. I want to be with him. I want to be with my family. Like, I'm done.

[Julia Benzival]

And she knows she can't be honest with Cheryl or the cult because they will try to talk her out of going to be with her dying father.

[Patrick Hines]

And so she, like, she wants to go. The cult is probably going to keep her. And her husband's like, hi, I know this woman is a grifter. She's ripping us apart.

[Julia Benzival]

Great tits. But we gotta go.

[Patrick Hines]

You know what I mean? I just heard. You're tearing me apart, Lisa from the room. Tommy Wiseau. You're tearing me apart, Lisa. Oh, hi, Mark. So Connie leaves the cult. She doesn't tell anyone where they're going. For her protection.

[Julia Benzival]

She says, for my own protection.

[Patrick Hines]

And then we just have, like, this brief moment where we meet Faith. Like today we meet Faith, Connie's daughter. She was sixth.

[Julia Benzival]

Her sixth adopted daughter.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. They left Washington when Faith was 12. And they're sort of like hugging and crying, kind of coming to this realization with us that, like. Like, if they didn't leave, they wouldn't be together, probably.

[Julia Benzival]

And, like, we learned this thing about Connie where she was adopting kids with special needs. Like, that was her mission in life, that she. All of her kids had special needs.

[Mary Lancaster]

In 2009, we adopted our sixth kid that particular year. The Internal Revenue, they were paying adoptive families monies back, especially if you were adopting special needs children. We ended up with a reform being 28,000. We gave her 7,000 of it.

[Patrick Hines]

What I took from that also is that Cheryl was encouraging them to do that for the money.

[Julia Benzival]

They don't say that explicitly, but yes.

[Patrick Hines]

That'S sort of what I inferred.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah. Meanwhile, also making them take 50 cats.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Julia Benzival]

I mean, that's crazy.

[Patrick Hines]

And then spending all the money. Like, there's a way to save the animals and take care of kids who need you.

[Julia Benzival]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Without doing it this way. Like, we can do it all, I promise you.

[Julia Benzival]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

Exactly. In a healthier way for everyone, that doesn't involve abuse. Yeah, I. I swear. I know it sounds crazy, but that is possible. So it's February 2013. It's Mark's the guy at the front, at the head of this, where we were like, oh, he's going to be murdered.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

But he's alive.

[Julia Benzival]

Ex husband.

[Patrick Hines]

So Mark's daughter is turning 18 and he can't get in touch with. He wants to wish her happy birthday. Can't talk to anyone. So Mark goes to check out the house. The house is empty. They left. Like, they bailed.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And so.

[Julia Benzival]

And what. What's really fucked about this is that Cheryl waited until all. Olivia, the daughter, is the youngest, and she just turned 18, so she's now a leader. They're all legal adults, so there's literally nothing Mark can do.

[Patrick Hines]

But they left at the stroke of midnight. Actually, like, 12,00 and one second.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

When she's actually 18.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So now there's like. They, like, drive to Tennessee in the middle of the night.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

The second this girl turns 18, which is so that Mark can't do anything about it. It's like, cruel. It's painful, but it's all part of her plan. And, like, the law is kind of like. I don't know what to tell you.

[Julia Benzival]

They're legal adults. They can literally do whatever they want.

[Patrick Hines]

And so Mary.

[Julia Benzival]

Mary goes like, they're relocating the cult to Tennessee. Mary is quote. This is the lesbianist way to say it.

[Beth Karras]

And in the bus was cats, chickens, guns and gold. We were moving all the precious items for Cheryl.

[Patrick Hines]

So.

[Julia Benzival]

Shady cats, chickens, guns and gold, baby.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Assault rifles.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Because God knows, can't have one without the other.

[Julia Benzival]

No. But, like, Mary has now moved the cult to Tennessee because, like, it's getting too hot up there in Bellingham.

[Patrick Hines]

And Cheryl's like, by the way, keep your fucking trap shut. Lie to your family, Lie to your job. If you're leaving a job, don't tell them where you're going. Like, lie to them.

[Julia Benzival]

Yep.

[Patrick Hines]

So Cheryl moves everyone to Tennessee and buys a 42 acre property. And Mark learns about it because Olivia, the daughter that just turned 18 and was basically stolen in the middle of the night, posts about it on Facebook.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah. And it's like she. Cheryl's lying to everybody. Mark calls the sheriff, I want to do a welfare check on my adult kids. He calls Cheryl.

[Patrick Hines]

She tells idiot sheriff.

[Julia Benzival]

It's just. It's one of those things where everyone is just believing all of Cheryl's lies.

[Patrick Hines]

Idiot sheriff is like, but did you see the tits on that one? Like, obviously, you're the idiot, because, I mean, Carol, Rod's sister, says, like, I'll tell you what happened. That sheriff saw her tits.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, she said that. And she goes. She goes, you know what? They were bowling balls in a tight sweater.

[Julia Benzival]

Okay.

[Patrick Hines]

All right. And she does that hand movement that's like, okay, you know, what do you want me to say?

[Julia Benzival]

And like, Rod, remember, he's the one From Canada. His wife and kids can't move to Tennessee because there's, like, a court order against it. But she still, like, secreted the kids away and is still, like, she's, like, out there, and she's incredibly loyal to shush. They're still in the call.

[Patrick Hines]

They're still out there. So it's there. We're in Columbia, Tennessee. It's 2013. Mary is L there. They bleep out her job. Mary says, I got a bleep job.

[Julia Benzival]

I think she said, I got a shit job. Like, a bad job. Oh, I think that's what she said. Maybe I'm wrong.

[Patrick Hines]

Maybe because we didn't see her face when she said it, so I couldn't like her lips. But I was like, why did they, like, weird. Oh, Beth, we can't curse hbo. It's not tv. It's hbo. Grow. We're talking about abuse of all kinds on these fucking shows, and we can't say the word shit.

[Julia Benzival]

I know, but, like, Mary's still got. She's got this, like, crappy job. She's got all. All those fucking cats. She wanted to get out so badly. And I said, she still has 14 cats. This is just so gay.

[Patrick Hines]

And finally, like, a woman appears.

[Julia Benzival]

Yes. Not in the cult.

[Patrick Hines]

And Mary's, like, working on her music, and she meets this woman and confides in her. They, like, start dating right away. And she confides in her girlfriend, tells her about the cult, tells her how she's miserable, tells her that she wants to leave. And the girlfriend is like, you know what, Mary? You and your 14 cats, you're coming. You're moving in with me.

[Julia Benzival]

She's like, I know a lesbian with a U haul. You're moving in tomorrow. And she literally did.

[Patrick Hines]

And then Mary feels the confidence to tell her sister Rachel, who's also in the cult, but not just that she's leaving the cult, but that Mary's gay.

[Julia Benzival]

And that she's in a relationship. And, like, Mary tells this amazing story that, like, I'm sobbing, my sister is sobbing, and we can finally talk to each other about all of the shit that we've been going through with Cheryl. Because that's the whole point of Cheryl making them all turn on each other, is that they can't be allowed to share common experience.

[Patrick Hines]

And it's why cult leaders and abusers isolate.

[Julia Benzival]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

This is why.

[Julia Benzival]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

Because any social inter will ruin everything. Even, like, a kind word at the post office.

[Julia Benzival]

Right?

[Patrick Hines]

You know, even seeing someone out in the wild who's like, girl, Are you okay? Like, at the checkout counter or whatever. And it's like, hey, are you okay? Anything like that. That's why they, like, start their own restaurants, so everything is contained.

[Julia Benzival]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

So that you can't go to, like, CVS and maybe see a nice, kind person and be like, I want to leave. Oh, my God. Can you help me? Like, really well.

[Julia Benzival]

And Mary says. Because she tells Cheryl that she's leaving, and she says, I've seen other people tell Cheryl that they were leaving, and Cheryl gets really nasty with them.

[Beth Karras]

The reason why I think she much softer with me is because she's afraid of what I'm doing right now. I'm talking about my story, and I'm stepping up to say this is what happened.

[Julia Benzival]

Mary knows too much. Including the lesbian sex.

[Patrick Hines]

Yep.

[Julia Benzival]

And she's afraid that she's like. She's afraid I'm gonna do exactly what I'm doing right now and, like, sit down and talk about, like, putting on, coming to my window and banging in my bedroom.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Which is exactly what happened.

[Julia Benzival]

Good job, Mary.

[Patrick Hines]

So Cheryl is insane, and rumors are flying that she's gonna hide, hire a hitman to kill Mark and his wife, also named Mary.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Which ends up being true.

[Julia Benzival]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

So Mark's current wife, also Mary, is like, well, we decided that the best defense is a good offense. And I'm like, what exactly does that mean? Because it can get very dangerous here very quickly.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah. But basically, Mary. Mary, Mark's wife, starts a Facebook page about the cult in Tennessee. And, like, the Facebook page, I actually looked it up. The Facebook page took off.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Benzival]

It became a place for, like, survivors and escapees to come back and, like, tell their story. It turns into, like, a national news outlet sees it and, like, writes a story about it.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, in 2016, nashvillescene.com wrote an article.

[Julia Benzival]

Nashville scene.com.

[Patrick Hines]

Would you like to know what the title of the article is? Apocalypse Meow. How a cult that believes cats are divine beings ended up in Tennessee. Like, there's a lot call it Apocalypse Meow, but, like, there's a lot more to it.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, because it's also, like, how dangerous can the cat cult be? But, like, obviously vary. But, like, on the surface, it's just all sounds kind of silly.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. You know, and so, like, we're wrapping up. We're trying to, like, wrap up people's stories. And remember Rick, the, like, big, strong guy, Rick Madrid, the, like, straight guy.

[Julia Benzival]

Right there, the one that almost killed Mark in his Driveway.

[Patrick Hines]

So he goes on that podcast in 2021 and confirms everything about the cults. Like we heard a little bit of the podcast earlier, but a few months after he goes on this podcast, we.

[Mary Lancaster]

Tried to locate Rick Madrid and we were surprised by what we found.

[Julia Benzival]

Low Hi, is this Rick Madrid? No. Rick Madrid passed away a couple years ago. Oh, he did? Yes, he did.

[Patrick Hines]

He dies mysteriously. Dies in his sleep.

[Julia Benzival]

And they say it was like sleep apnea. And we never. Beth Carris says we never get an answer on this because he died in New Mexico and New Mexico will not release death records to anybody but the family members. She says they couldn't find like a published obituary, so they can't even confirm that Rick Madrid is actually dead or.

[Patrick Hines]

How he died or anything like that. Ye here literally every talking head is like, tell me that's not suspicious.

[Julia Benzival]

Did she do it?

[Patrick Hines]

So at this point, like the only way to get Cheryl is through tax evasion.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Follow the money and see where it goes. And I bet it's not going to the irs, it's going to her tits.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

She also has like a lot of precious metals. What's that about?

[Julia Benzival]

Like, no, she's just crazy and out there and like, and like the cult is still raging.

[Patrick Hines]

They eventually move to Kentucky and now instead of Eve is Eden. It's Da Vinci's dream like that and now it's like cats and dogs and like I just hope all the animals are okay. I google da Vinci dream and it was in a news article where they like went to a hoarder's house and all the animals from the hoarder's house went like Da Vinci's dream was one of the shelters that some of the animals went to. So like they are actively, I think they were saving some cats lives but like living in, in filth like that is animal abuse. So I hope they're taking care of the animals at least.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah, I mean that's the thing is that like on the surface, like the reason why these cult leaders in these like small time cults don't get investigated is because like it doesn't seem like, like we get these individual stories which we needed because these people like any one could have killed themselves, any one of them. Like these kids lives are being ruined. They're being ripped away from their actual. But on the surface it's like what? It's just a cat cult, who cares?

[Patrick Hines]

And the law will always be like, well you went there exactly, gave her the money. Like the law doesn't recognize coercive Control at all.

[Julia Benzival]

Right? And that's why Beth Caris is like, if they're gonna get her, it's gonna have to be on tax evasion, because she's getting them to give her their money. And, you know, she's not paying taxes on it. Like, you know what I mean? But, like, they're never gonna. She's way too small time. Even though she's destroying lives every day, she's for the IRS or anybody to actually really care about.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. So Mary says, Mary the lesbian. She ends this. I love how this ends.

[Beth Karras]

She says, if anybody's listening to this, that's still stuck in a very deep, dark place with someone who manipulates you and tells you if you leave, these bad things will happen to you. I promise you it won't. You will only find life and authenticity on the other side of those lies.

[Patrick Hines]

You will only find life and authenticity on the other side of those lies.

[Julia Benzival]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And I'm like, fuck, yes, Mary. And also, for the record, she loved cats before Cheryl.

[Julia Benzival]

She totally did.

[Patrick Hines]

And she goes, cheryl doesn't get to ruin cats for. For Mary or anyone or any one of us, actually. How dare she? And of course, Cheryl never responded to producers.

[Julia Benzival]

Are you shocked? Of course.

[Patrick Hines]

Are you shocked?

[Julia Benzival]

Oh, my God, girl. We did the Weird cat cult one.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. The Curious Case of the Doomsday Cat Cult.

[Julia Benzival]

It's a good one. It's a good, interesting app. It's.

[Patrick Hines]

It's wild.

[Julia Benzival]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

I think we're went off the rails there a little bit, but I hope.

[Julia Benzival]

You enjoyed it, fam. Don't forget, join the Facebook group. It's the True Crime Obsessed podcast discussion group. Join us on Patreon if you want all the bonus episodes. I'm telling you right now, the Karen Reid thing is insane.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. We're going to refill our glasses of water and dive right into that.

[Julia Benzival]

We're doing it right now. What are we doing next?

[Patrick Hines]

We are doing. So you know that show Hollywood Demons on hbo, Max?

[Julia Benzival]

Oh, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

We're doing Stephen Collins, America's dad about the seventh Heaven dad who's a pedophile. Oh, shit.

[Julia Benzival]

Okay.

[Patrick Hines]

It's worse than I thought, to be honest.

[Julia Benzival]

Is it really?

[Patrick Hines]

I didn't know that, like, his wife was involved in outing him. It's a whole thing.

[Julia Benzival]

Have you seen the guy on TikTok who was recapping 7th Heaven episodes?

[Patrick Hines]

He's in this documentary.

[Julia Benzival]

Oh, my God. He's the. I'm a.

[Patrick Hines]

He's the guy who did the TikTok, where he goes through Never Been Kissed and he's like, this is horrifying. He's in this.

[Julia Benzival]

Yes, yes. All right. All right. Well, stay tuned for the trailer for that. And we love you.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, we love you.

[Julia Benzival]

All right, bye.

[Patrick Hines]

Bye. Stephen Kalles was America's father. However, the lives you're watching on TV.

[Mary Lancaster]

Could not be less real.

[Julia Benzival]

I don't have to believe everything you do. I can't say that working on seventh.

[Patrick Hines]

Heaven was a very positive experience for me. The fact that he was on a show with a bunch of children really concerned me.

[Beth Karras]

You said that there was another girl.

[Patrick Hines]

I've never told this story. Are you okay telling you?

[Julia Benzival]

I need people to hear this. Not many things are rarely just black.

[Patrick Hines]

And white.

[Julia Benzival]

Steven, over your feud.

[Patrick Hines]

The shades of gray are where the story is. Sometimes the biggest monsters have the prettiest faces. How many girls all.