439: Hollywood Demons: Stephen Collins, America's Dad

Summary

Podcast Summary: True Crime Obsessed - Episode 439: Hollywood Demons: Stephen Collins, America's Dad

---

Introduction

In Episode 439 of True Crime Obsessed, titled "Hollywood Demons: Stephen Collins, America's Dad," hosts Jillian Benavalli and Patrick Hines delve into the dark history of Stephen Collins, renowned for his role as the patriarch on the beloved family show 7th Heaven. This episode explores Collins' alleged sexual misconduct, the subsequent public and industry reactions, and the enduring impact on his career and personal life.

---

Stephen Collins: The Facade of a Family Man

The episode begins with Jillian and Patrick introducing Stephen Collins, affectionately known as "America's Dad" from 7th Heaven. They discuss Collins' successful acting career, highlighting his roles beyond 7th Heaven, such as in The First Wives Club and All the President's Men.

Jillian Benavalli [00:04]: "I never had any need for 7 Tevin."

Patrick Hines [00:05]: "Total blind spot for me. I have nothing."

Despite his on-screen persona, the hosts express skepticism about the authenticity of Collins' wholesome image.

---

Allegations of Abuse and the Early Signs

Jillian introduces the core of the discussion by revealing that Collins was accused of sexual misconduct, particularly with minors. They emphasize the difficulty in obtaining testimonies, noting that out of over 100 contacts reached, only men were willing to speak, aside from a survivor and Dr. Drew Pinsky.

Jillian Benavalli [03:04]: "Producers reached out to more than 100 contacts of Stephen Collins. Nearly everyone declined to participate or did not respond."

The hosts highlight the manipulative tactics Collins employed, describing his ability to maintain relationships with co-stars while harboring sinister intentions.

---

The Surviving Victim's Story

A significant portion of the episode focuses on April, a survivor who was seven years old when Collins allegedly abused her. The narrative outlines how Collins used his status on 7th Heaven to gain access to vulnerable individuals.

Jillian Benavalli [15:15]: "Stephen Collins is a fucking pedophile."

April's initial encounter with Collins is depicted as grooming behavior, where he presents himself as a friendly and approachable figure, making his advances seem harmless.

Jillian Benavalli [17:41]: "She sees it as like, oh my God, he's making me feel like the most important person in the world. And he's so charismatic, but like this man wants to devour this little girl."

The episode underscores the psychological manipulation involved, explaining how victims often struggle to come forward due to fear, shame, and the power dynamics at play.

---

Public and Industry Reaction

The hosts discuss the broader implications of Collins' actions on his career and the television industry. They critique the lack of accountability, pointing out how Collins continued to work in the industry despite the allegations.

Patrick Hines [10:32]: "I would have known him as that creep from the first Fights club. And that is all right."

They also touch upon the documentary's attempt to shed light on Collins' behavior, questioning why more victims haven't come forward and the role of silence in enabling abusers.

---

Dr. Drew's Analysis and Misconceptions

Dr. Drew Pinsky features in the documentary, providing insights into Collins' behavior. However, the hosts express disappointment with his simplistic explanations, feeling that Dr. Drew downplays the severity of Collins' actions.

Jillian Benavalli [03:23]: "They probably had a deep affection for him, and they're conflicted in terms of trying to understand how they can have such affection for a monster."

The hosts argue that Dr. Drew's analysis misses the deeper psychological aspects of abuse and the long-term trauma inflicted on victims.

---

Stephen Collins' Continued Career and Public Perception

Despite the mounting evidence and testimonies, Collins managed to sustain his acting career for years. The hosts critique the industry's tendency to protect its own, allowing problematic figures to remain influential.

Patrick Hines [58:08]: "So seventh Heaven was going to end and then everyone threw a fit and so they gave it another season."

They highlight Collins' appearances in other projects post-7th Heaven, questioning the moral integrity of continuing to employ someone with such a history.

---

The Leaked Confession and Legal Implications

A pivotal moment discussed is the 2014 leaked recording where Collins admits to past abuses during a therapy session with his wife, Faye Grant. The hosts condemn the lack of legal repercussions due to the statute of limitations and criticize the justice system's failure to protect victims.

Jillian Benavalli [60:00]: "Once a pedophile, always a pedophile. Like, this man needs to be stopped."

They emphasize the need for societal and legal reforms to better address and prevent such abuses, advocating for support systems for victims.

---

Final Thoughts and Call to Action

Jillian and Patrick conclude the episode by reflecting on the disturbing juxtaposition of Collins' public persona and private actions. They advocate for greater awareness, accountability, and support for survivors.

Patrick Hines [64:02]: "This was damage control. We did it, of course, to make sure that she didn't say anything."

The episode ends with a poignant reminder for listeners to seek help if affected by similar issues, underscoring the importance of breaking the silence surrounding sexual abuse.

Jillian Benavalli [69:41]: "We scream a lot, fam. But child abuse shit makes me really mad."

---

Conclusion

Episode 439 of True Crime Obsessed presents a thorough examination of Stephen Collins' troubling actions and the subsequent lack of accountability within the entertainment industry. Through in-depth discussions and critical analysis, Jillian Benavalli and Patrick Hines shed light on the complexities of abuse, victimology, and the pervasive influence of power dynamics in enabling predators. This episode serves as a compelling call to action for greater vigilance and support for victims of sexual misconduct.

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Jillian Benavalli [00:04]: "I never had any need for 7 Tevin."
• Patrick Hines [03:07]: "All men except for our survivor and Dr. Drew."
• Jillian Benavalli [15:15]: "Stephen Collins is a fucking pedophile."
• Patrick Hines [10:32]: "I would have known him as that creep from the first Fights club."
• Jillian Benavalli [17:41]: "This man wants to Devour this little girl."
• Patrick Hines [58:08]: "So seventh Heaven was going to end and then everyone threw a fit and so they gave it another season."
• Jillian Benavalli [60:00]: "Once a pedophile, always a pedophile. Like, this man needs to be stopped."
• Jillian Benavalli [69:41]: "We scream a lot, fam. But child abuse shit makes me really mad."

---

Note: This summary excludes sections related to advertisements, sponsor messages, and non-content segments to maintain focus on the core discussion of Stephen Collins' case.

Transcript

[Jillian Benavalli]

I never had any need for 7 Tevin.

[Patrick Hines]

Total blind spot for me. I have nothing.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Me too.

[Patrick Hines]

I have nothing.

[Jillian Benavalli]

To anybody's surprise, I never watched one episode. Yeah, I had to learn that Dr. Quinn, medicine woman was also one of those meant to be like, wholesome family spiritual shows. That's what they say in this thing. I loved that show.

[Patrick Hines]

I totally missed that little gay channel.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Hi. Jillian Benavalli.

[Patrick Hines]

Hello. Patrick Hines.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Tell them what's going on over on Patreon. Oh, my God. We have our 15 hour Karen read.

[Patrick Hines]

The Body in the Snow thing.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

Five episodes. Five million.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Five episodes. But 49 million hours.

[Patrick Hines]

It's unbelievable. They're gonna be very long episodes. And reminder, we're covering that documentary, not the Trial, in real time. Okay.

[Jillian Benavalli]

But also maybe a little of that.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm doing my best. I'm the one watching it. Don't you tell me what you're doing.

[Jillian Benavalli]

I am too, though. Well, I'm catching up on it.

[Patrick Hines]

You're watching Canton Confidential.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah. Which is like holy majoli.

[Patrick Hines]

I don't know if that's good or bad. I don't know what people think.

[Jillian Benavalli]

I know. Whatever it is, it's wrong.

[Patrick Hines]

We also did Fox Hollow murders. We just finished that. Yeah, we're doing. Hey, beautiful. We're doing lady of the Dunes. What el did we do?

[Jillian Benavalli]

I mean, just. We've done everything, every cult thing you ever wanted us to do. People want more cult stuff.

[Patrick Hines]

Say no more.

[Jillian Benavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Kidding. Done.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Also, fam, we've got a book club. We've got like 500 people in the book club. Sasha runs the whole thing. If you want to join, go into the Facebook group. Just go to the featured post where you fill out a Google form. It takes literally 20 seconds and you're in. And that's it. That's it. You're. You're part of the. You're part of that cult.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Benavalli]

You're part of the book club cult.

[Patrick Hines]

You can do that in the Discord as well. There's like a book. A book club channel.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Oh, the disky.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Benavalli]

What are we talking about today, girl?

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, God. So that show, Hollywood Demons, the first episode is Stephen Collins, America's dad. And for. If you're like me and didn't know his name, he's the dad from seventh Heaven.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Stephen Collins was America's father. However, the lives you're watching on TV could not be less real. You don't have to believe everything you hear. I can't say that working on Seventh Heaven was a very positive experience.

[Patrick Hines]

For me, the fact that he was on a show with a bunch of children really concerned another girl.

[Jillian Benavalli]

I've never told this story.

[Patrick Hines]

Are you okay telling it?

[Jillian Benavalli]

I need people to hear this. Not many things are rarely just black and white. The shades of gray are where the story is.

[Patrick Hines]

Sometimes the biggest monsters have the prettiest faces. How many girls all together now? I did not watch that show. I did not watch seventh Heaven.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Me. Not one time.

[Patrick Hines]

I knew him as the creep from the First Wives club.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Oh. I mean, wait.

[Patrick Hines]

Because we learned that he's Annie's husb. Diane Keaton's husband who cheats on her with her equally sleazy therapist.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Okay. And, like, we learned that, like, Stephen Collins, like, did a bunch of shit. Like, he had a really thriving career.

[Patrick Hines]

He was, like, a successful famous actor, which is part of the problem.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah. Well, one of the things I wanted to point out, right at the top, we get on screen text that says, producers reached out to more than 100 contacts of Stephen Collins. Nearly everyone declined to participate or did not respond. The only ones who ever worked with them, who we were able to interview, they were all men.

[Patrick Hines]

All men except for our survivor and Dr. Drew.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Now, is Dr. Drew garbage or we're okay with him?

[Patrick Hines]

I have no idea.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Okay, I'm gonna Google today. I don't know either. But Dr. Drew, I like a lot of what he says in this documentary.

[Patrick Hines]

Today, in this situation, because, like we. Like I said, we cover the documentary.

[Jillian Benavalli]

In front of us.

[Patrick Hines]

He says a lot of things that make a whole lot of sense to me that I agree with.

[Jillian Benavalli]

And one of the things he says is, well, the fact that the women don't want to talk about it, to me, I think it's probably more a sign of how they're. How mixed their feelings are. They probably had a deep affection for him, and they're conflicted in terms of trying to understand how they can have such an aff. For a monster. Let's be fair. We're conflicted about confronting the fact that he was a monster. We see this a lot. We saw it with Bill Cosby. I remember Phylicia Rashad had a really hard time, like, speaking out against him.

[Patrick Hines]

It's such a. It's a major betrayal when you think you know somebody, and then it turns out that they're a stranger and a monster. Not that it's like, oh, I didn't really know who they were. It's like, I didn't know who they were because they were doing horrifying things.

[Jillian Benavalli]

And I'm not like, I'm not picking a fight with Phylicia Rashad or any of these women at all. What I'm trying to say is I can understand how conflicted you might be and it happens and how much you might not want to give your con. Your. Your conflicted emotions to some documentary that you don't know what's going on.

[Patrick Hines]

And then when it's tied to something that is such a big part of pop culture or television history, like the Cosby show, something like, then it's like, oh, does it taint your career too? Like, now when people look at the Cosby show, they're not like, oh, that dance is so funny, or, oh, that thing is so funny, it becomes about something else.

[Jillian Benavalli]

And also, like, a lot of these actors didn't. Except for, like, Jessica Biel didn't do a ton of other stuff. And. And Seventh Heaven is their cash cow. And, like, it was taken off the air for a long time. It's finally back on. Like, they don't. Finally, after all these years, my dreams came true. In Seventh Heaven is back.

[Patrick Hines]

Not a single episode. This documentary is the most I've ever.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Watched in Seventh Heaven, except for that awesome tiktoker who's here, who was the one giving. Because I've seen a lot of Seventh Heaven through his gay eyes. And, like, when we get there, I will say there were a lot of days he was the only reason for me to be on the Internet. I love this man.

[Patrick Hines]

Jeremy London is here. So the Jason and Jeremy London situation is kind of wild if you think about it. They are identical twins.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Oh.

[Patrick Hines]

And they both made it in Hollywood.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Who's the other one?

[Patrick Hines]

You'd think that Hollywood would be like, no, we literally have that. Exactly one. We're fine. So Jeremy London, it was in Seventh Heaven, which I just learned. Party of five. Mall rats.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Jason London was Dazed and Confused, man in the Moon, all the Aerosmith videos, like, to Wong Fu, but they were all like. They were both famous at the same time.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Isn't there, like a brother situation happening now where one of them is gay? Luke Evans and Chris Evans, and one.

[Patrick Hines]

Of them's gay like Captain America?

[Jillian Benavalli]

I think so. And then Luke Evans is like the gay brother. And there's. Aren't there like 100 Hemsworth too? I'm not. I'm not.

[Patrick Hines]

SARS guards.

[Jillian Benavalli]

They're kind of everywhere now. There's like, there's another Ephron, apparently.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, yeah, Dylan from the Traitors.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Wait, and the other. What's his name? There's Like a Franco. There's like a Dave and a James.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, but these are identical twins. It's different. Siblings are like identical twins. It's like you look exactly the fucking same.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Oh, right. And you can see your producer being.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, you'd think Hollywood would be like, we have a Jason, we don't need a Jeremy.

[Jillian Benavalli]

You know, one of those great stories is Linda Hamilton from Terminator has a twin sister. And some of the ways they were able to do the special effects in Terminator 2 was by using the twin. Isn't that cool?

[Patrick Hines]

Tom Hanks, his brother does all the voices of Woody for like video games and other other like digital things. Maybe not all the voices, but like a lot of voices.

[Jillian Benavalli]

And it's just like so interesting.

[Patrick Hines]

Hey, brother, want to make a zillion dollars? Like want to be the voice of Woody and a lot of other things. Anyway, Dr. Drew is our Beth Caris for this. He's our host.

[Jillian Benavalli]

That is so perfectly said. Travel down the road. Back again, girl. Haya is back. Daisy loves taking Haya and this thing. I gotta tell you. These vitamins are pressed with a blend of 12 organic fruits and veggies that are supercharged with 15 essential vitamins and minerals, including vitamin D, B12C, zinc, folate and many others to help support immune system energy, brain function, mood, concentration, teeth, bones and more. It's a good way to start the day.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, and it helps that it tastes good too. So it doesn't have all that stuff. And then it's like cardboard. Like no, she likes taking.

[Jillian Benavalli]

She literally looks forward to taking it. It's unbelievable.

[Patrick Hines]

And it's also non gmo, vegan, dairy free, allergy free, gelatin free, nut free and everything else you can imagine.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Now I want to tell you this, fam, listen to me. If you're tired of battling with your kids about eating their greens, now Haya has kids daily greens plus superfoods. So it's this chocolate flavored greens powder designed specifically for kids, packed with 55 plus whole food ingredients to support brain power development and digestion. You scoop, you shake and you sip with milk or any non dairy beverage for a delicious, nutritious boost your kids will actually enjoy. And once again is how we're still able to trick our kids into eating the good things, right?

[Patrick Hines]

So the same multivitamin that more than a million kids and parents love are now available with Disney's the Lion King. With a new Lion King unboxing experience including Lion King bottle and Lion King stickers and fam.

[Jillian Benavalli]

We've worked out a special deal with Haya for their bestselling children's vitamins. So receive 50% off your first order.

[Patrick Hines]

To claim this deal, you must go to hiahealth.com tco this deal is not available on their regular.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Go to H I y dash A H E A L T h dot com TCO and get your kids the full body nourishment they need to grow.

[Patrick Hines]

Into healthy adults and stop the LION KING Like 20 minutes before it ends. Right?

[Jillian Benavalli]

Oh, I mean, it's a little too sad.

[Patrick Hines]

I can't talk about it, but I love that we got the Lion King stickers.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Daisy loves that love sticker.

[Patrick Hines]

Kyle Searles. Searles is here. He played Mac on seventh Heaven.

[Jillian Benavalli]

This is what I'm saying. I barely wrote some of these names. I'm like, a lot of this just felt like such a filler to me.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, cuz he's saying like, it just.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Showed me what I wanted to be when it came to being a professional actor and how you treat people and how you present yourself too. That's why it was even more of a shock to hear, you know, what ended up happening.

[Patrick Hines]

I don't know if this whole episode was meant to be really shady towards the men.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Uhhuh.

[Patrick Hines]

But it was. It was because, like, all of these guys are like, he was amazing.

[Jillian Benavalli]

You don't understand how amazing he was.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, he was. Well, you weren't a target, Kyle, so of course you had a great experience with him. And also, I'm sure it was smart him to be on his best behavior on the set of 7th Heaven. I'm sure I'm not. I'm not talking about anyone's experiences, but like, if there are no stories from the set of 7th Heaven, which math says, like, probably that's wrong.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

But like, he probably wouldn't want to do that on set of seventh Heaven.

[Jillian Benavalli]

My thing about these men and what makes me so crazy about them is that all of them want to talk about how amazing he was. And then all of them willfully ignored the allegations. When they came out, we're going to hear them say, I've heard that something happened, but we don't know what happened. It's like, bitch, it was recorded. He said it himself. He told Katie Couric what he did. They didn't pay any attention to it. And they sat down for the interview to say what an awesome guy this guy was.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, like this guy Tom Green. Not that Tom Green, who's also problematic. He is. Right.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. Didn't you See that coming from a mile away.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Totally.

[Patrick Hines]

This guy has one E at the end of his name. I hate him, too. But this guy's trying to say that Stephen Collins stole the show in a little movie called all the President's Men starring Robert Redford and Dustin Hoffman.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Girls, shut up. I know.

[Patrick Hines]

My thing is, this is all so tedious. It just made me think, like, he can't just be a mediocre guy who did awful things. We have to build him up to this fucking icon first. Right, okay. Like, the guy had a successful career. You look at his IMDb, stacked fine. He was a working actor, recognizable, whatever. But, like.

[Jillian Benavalli]

But if he didn't have this scandal, I would not in a million years have known who he was.

[Patrick Hines]

I would have known him as that creep from the first Fights club. And that is all right. But, like, he stole the show. And all the President's Men.

[Jillian Benavalli]

They literally like Robert Redford and Dustin Hoffman were looking at.

[Patrick Hines]

To this day, Dustin Hoffman is talking to James Lipton inside the Actors Studio.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Totally.

[Patrick Hines]

It was that. It was that moment. What are we talking about?

[Jillian Benavalli]

Taking the merch off. It's now hot in here.

[Patrick Hines]

I told you. I know, because I got to tell you, like, I'm really not interested in this guy's fucking resume. And they don't even mention the First Wives club.

[Jillian Benavalli]

No, you're absolutely right about that.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm sure Goldie Hawn and Bette Midler and Diane Keaton were like, thank fucking God.

[Jillian Benavalli]

I know, I know. Well, we learned that he was on a show called Tales of the Gold Monkey. Like, in the 80s, they call it a cheap Raiders of the Lost Ark. The important thing about this is that this is where he meets his wife, Faye Grant.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, he was 35, she was 25. And they tell the story that I'm like, what? Where they had to hug on set, and he, like, wouldn't let go of.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Her, and he kind of started shaking a little. And cut, cut, cut. Finally, they released each other, and that was the moment. And Steve told me after that hug, I realized, I'm gonna marry that girl.

[Patrick Hines]

He was like, I'm gonna marry that woman.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

But it's like, did she not want to be in that hug? I know, it's weird. And then he's. Yeah. So the show Tales of the Golden Monkey was really popular, even Teenybopper Girls. And I'm like, what the fuck is that?

[Jillian Benavalli]

And it was only on for one season, like. But it does get him the seventh Heaven gig down the road. I guess this documentary really starts when we meet April.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Can I just say one thing about teeny bopper girls?

[Jillian Benavalli]

Sure.

[Patrick Hines]

Harry Styles said this. Don't count them out at all.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Like, what exactly is a teenybopper girl?

[Patrick Hines]

Like, you know, people use that phrase as, like, what's the word? Like, pejorative. Like, it's like. It's a demeaning thing. Like, oh, the teeny boppers. Cause they love stupid music and they love whatever.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Oh, that's me.

[Patrick Hines]

It's. But it's like, stupid and wrong to say. And there's some. Of course I'm not gonna know it now off the top of my head, but there was some Harry Styles thing where it's like, how dare you? Like, they're the best fans in the world.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Harry Styles is like, these women bought my private jet for me.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, you're welcome. Exactly, Ms. Dor Sty. But like, I'm just saying, like, don't count out what young girls like. So to even say, like, even teeny bopper girls liked it, even the idiots liked it is how I took that. And I just resent it.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Well, let me just say this documentary feels so male. It feels so fucking male. There's like two women in this thing, but the whole thing feels like it's from the male gaze. Like, even when we're talking about the abuse survivors, they're showing, like, sexy pictures of them.

[Patrick Hines]

I know.

[Jillian Benavalli]

You know what I mean? It really is bad. So we meet April.

[Patrick Hines]

I grew up in a very small town in Oklahoma. There was one stoplight and one four way stop sign. TV was a great escape. And Tales of the Gold Monkey was a big deal. It was the fantasy escapism. I want to be taken away into something totally, completely different. That's not real life that I don't live every day.

[Jillian Benavalli]

And for her, that show was like an escape. And in 1983, she's got cool aunt Cindy who lives in Los Angeles, and she's like a producer. And she's like this big Hollywood muckety muck.

[Patrick Hines]

She's a line producer.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Don't fuck with the line producers for.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Like, the Scotts, for Tony and Ridley Scott. And April. April gets to go out and spend her spring break with aunt Cindy.

[Patrick Hines]

Here's the thing about aunt Cindy. Anti is neighbors with Stephen Collins, the guy from April's favorite show.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah. And like, so April is 13. She gets out there. She's hanging out in Los Angeles, having the time of her life. They're going to Disneyland, they're going to the beach. They're doing all the LA shit. And like one day she's like so impressed that Stephen Collins lives across the hall. That Aunt Cindy, I would never in a million years. But Aunt Cindy lets her go across the hall and knock on the door and ask for an autographed picture. I had a famous person in my building and like my. One of my nephews was like, can I go knock on the door? I would be like, over my dead body.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, it was a. I hate this phrase. A different time. But my friend Nick, his mom Ursula is like literally in A Hard Day's Night. She grew up in Liverpool, so she has all of these stories. She like dated Eddie Money, like she has a whole thing. But she actually wrote a book that I haven't read but she wrote a book called the Curious A Curious Case of Beatlemania. She was like a teeny bopper girl. Like for lack of a better term, she was a major fan of theirs. She met them a lot pre coming to America, like, like old school. She has the story where like again it was a different time. There was no social media, no one. The Beatles hadn't come to America yet, so they were famous in Liverpool, but they weren't like, yeah, we talk about like oh, the Beatles, Beatlemania. It wasn't like that. Yeah, and she was like a teenager and they found out where Ringo lived and she like went to his house, his apartment with her friend, her like young also 15 year old friend, and knocked on the door and he opened it and nobody knew what to do. And he was like, don't do that again. Like it was just kind of like.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Well that's a good anecdote because like Stephen Collins is fucking pedophile opens the door and this like 13 year old girl is standing there wanting his attention. It's like probably the best moment of this creep's life, right?

[Patrick Hines]

And like I guess it was a little bit of a kids show. So I, I have to imagine that he was getting stopped by children a lot.

[Jillian Benavalli]

It makes me so angry. And she says he was tall and blonde and good looking and he was really nice to her. And you know, she asked for an autograph and he's like sure, like I'll make sure my people get it to you. And but like she explains the way that he like leaned in and like really like took her in. And in one sense she sees it as like, oh my God, he's making me feel like the most important person in the world. And he's so charismatic and but like this man wants to Devour this little girl.

[Patrick Hines]

Like the grooming started that man there. So April gets the signed headshot and.

[Jillian Benavalli]

It says, we see it, she still has it.

[Patrick Hines]

So the autograph he writes to April, says to April, come out and see us again sometimes. And then he signs off with love. And for some reason that, that was weird to me, that I thought that was off putting. Like, why, why would he say that? April, even as a starstruck kid thinks it's like, weird. Yeah, it's way too personal. And Dr. Drew was like, no, he should have said, nice meeting you, stranger. Be well. So April had a great time in LA over spring break, obviously. And so Aunt Cindy lets April spend the summer of 1983 with her in LA. And they would, like, April would chill at the house all day. Cindy was at work being a badass line producer.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Y.

[Patrick Hines]

And then one day, I just want.

[Jillian Benavalli]

To say, like, Cindy, you sound like the coolest fucking person in the world.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Benavalli]

To like be a single person with a full time job and like taking in your 13 year old, like niece for the summer, like, what a badass.

[Patrick Hines]

She's the cool aunt for sure.

[Jillian Benavalli]

For sure.

[Patrick Hines]

So they live in like these kinds of apartments are like all over LA and California, but it's like, it's all kind of like an open space. There's like a courtyard, there's like a shared area, whatever. So one day, like April's chilling at the apartment or the house or whatever, and Cindy's at work. And one day Stephen Collins appears in the courtyard and he's got completely naked. And April is 13 years old. She's far away from home. She's home alone, she's in her nightgown. And her favorite person that she knows from television, who's famous, is naked in the courtyard. And she freezes.

[Jillian Benavalli]

The audacity of that, you know, like anybody else could have also seen him. He's so focused on abusing this girl that he's willing to take a chance like that.

[Patrick Hines]

And April says, like, I think he was trying to fake it. Like he had a pile of clothes with him. It almost looked like he was doing laundry. Like, yeah, maybe there was a shared laundry area in the apartment complex or something. But it just looks, it's just kind of like, whoa. Like he just sort of placed his naked, creepy self where she could see it.

[Jillian Benavalli]

And Kelly Mead, she's a sex crimes expert, former NYPD Special Victims Unit, she's saying to us in April Price's situation.

[Patrick Hines]

That'S a test to me.

[Jillian Benavalli]

And I believe he wants to See.

[Patrick Hines]

What she's going to do.

[Jillian Benavalli]

He wants to see if she's going to run away.

[Patrick Hines]

She's going to be disgusted. She's going to tell everybody, Is she.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Going to freak out? Is she going to run away? Is she going to tell anybody? If none of that happens, then he's one step closer to what he wants.

[Patrick Hines]

And if she screams and calls him on one, he'd just be like, she's a weirdo obsessed fan and destroy her character.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

That's all.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

Easy, one and done. Travel down the road.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Back again, girl. Earn in is back. Look, I've said it before, life doesn't happen bi weekly. So why should Payday, the money you Earn can be in your hands today. With Earn In.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, let me just break it down, please. Earn in is an app that gives you access to your pay as you work. So up to $150 per day with a max of $750 between paydays. This is like you want to treat yourself, you want to go to the movies, you want, I don't know, like rent is due, you have any kind.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Of emergency and paydays, not for a couple more days or another week. You get on your Earn in, you can get the money right freaking now. All you got to do is download the Earn in app and verify your paycheck. Then access up to 150 bucks a day as you work and leave an optional tip. Any money you access, by the way, plus tips are automatically repaid from your next paycheck.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Make Earn In a part of your financial routine and join Earn In's over 4 million customers who say things like, when I think about Earn In, I think about financial stability. Security gives me a lot of peace of mind.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah. So fam. Download Earn in today. It's spelled E A R N I N in the Google Play or Apple app Store.

[Patrick Hines]

When you download the Earn an app, type in True Crime Obsessed under Podcast when you sign up. It'll really help the show. True Crime Obsessed under Podcast.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Earn in is a financial technology company, not a bank. Cashouts are based on your available earnings. Standard cash outs take one to two business days with no mandatory fees option.

[Patrick Hines]

To expedite your transfer for a fee. Tips are voluntary and don't affect the service.

[Jillian Benavalli]

See the cash out user agreement for details. Services not available in all states.

[Patrick Hines]

So a few days later, April wants to play her Atari. She needs help hooking it up. And so she. It's so outside. She's outside and she sees Stephen Collins and asks him for help looking it up. Because remember, like, April just knows, like, oh, that's an adult, and he's naked, and I know him. And, like, she feels uncomfortable, but she doesn't know. Why would she? She's 13. She doesn't know what he's doing or.

[Jillian Benavalli]

That she, like, you know, it's.

[Patrick Hines]

It's.

[Jillian Benavalli]

It's reinforced. Was over and over and over again that, like, she has no reason to think, like, she. He's got a girlfriend. She knows that she's a kid. He's an adult. Like, and this was back before parents were really talking to their kids about, like, hey, if this ever happens, run for your life and come and tell an adult. She thinks she has to keep this secret.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Benavalli]

You know.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God. I remember those conversations.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Me, too. But so much of it was because of the 80s.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, this.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Things like this. And, like, you know, Webster would do a very special, like, child abuse episode, so.

[Patrick Hines]

So she asked him for help to play her cool game that probably cool aunt Cindy gave her, because her mom back at home probably doesn't want April playing video games. But video games are great, Mom. Yeah, back off. I am.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Hey. My mom was, like, a recovering alcoholic, like, single mother, poor lesbian.

[Patrick Hines]

I was just talking to your mom. I was talking to April's mom.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Oh.

[Patrick Hines]

Cause it was probably cool Aunt Cindy who let her. I'm just doing a whole bunch of things.

[Jillian Benavalli]

I wasn't able to get my mom flowers until the Tuesday after Mother's Day, so I'm feeling a little bit of guilt about it just was. I didn't.

[Patrick Hines]

But your hands were tied behind your back.

[Jillian Benavalli]

I was.

[Patrick Hines]

Hey, Siri, send my mom flowers.

[Jillian Benavalli]

I was. Yeah. I just didn't. I'm feeling a little guilty over here.

[Patrick Hines]

All right, well, now who's projecting?

[Jillian Benavalli]

Sorry, Pam. I know. I was just listening to our. I was, like, going through an edit of one of our episodes where I was really getting deep about my dad. Oh, my God. And we got to an end point, and you go. You feel okay to move on?

[Patrick Hines]

Like, therapy? Does this feel good to stop?

[Jillian Benavalli]

This is an okay spot. Okay, great.

[Patrick Hines]

I was like, yes, I'm fine. Stephen Collins takes this opportunity to assault April. And he's in the living room in my aunt's apartment hooking up that Atari. And he turned around, and his jeans were completely open, and he's completely exposed. He exposes himself to her, and she is in shock. And April explains. She was like, he was doing a nice thing for me. I didn't want to be rude. And that's when you're like, okay, the power dynamic and imbalance cannot be ignored here. And that's what he is also grooming now.

[Jillian Benavalli]

And it's also important to say he hasn't physically touched her yet. This is still assault.

[Patrick Hines]

It's still soft.

[Jillian Benavalli]

He has pulled his penis out of his pants and he's like, he's putting it in her alone. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So April tries to ignore what's going on and act like it's not happening, like in that very moment. And she says he chit chatted for a bit and then left. And April never said anything.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Can I just say one other thing? Dr. Drew says this was him expressing dominance and total control.

[Patrick Hines]

Exactly. That's like the power imbalance dynamic thing.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah. Yes. And basically just saying to her, like, if, like, this is going to happen.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. And April never said anything for many reasons. One of the reasons is because April was not believed when she told her family that a quote, uncle molested her when she was 4 years old. And she's like, he wasn't really an uncle, but he babysat me. That's why the uncle is in quotes. Nothing else is in quotes. Because we believe April.

[Jillian Benavalli]

She was 4 years old and went to her family and told them and they didn't believe her.

[Patrick Hines]

And she's like, well, why would anyone believe me now? I'm probably making it up in my own head anyway. Plus, he's a famous person.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

So. And he's been nice to her. So it's like, you're gonna be so awful to this person who hooked up your Atari or gave you the nice headshot or whatever.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Sachi Cole is here and we know her from Quiet on Set and she had that podcast Scamfluencers. And she says a lot of amazing things in this, but one of the things she says is the first time something happens. And April didn't say anything, like when she saw him naked the first time. Once more things start to happen, she starts to think, I can't say anything now cause I didn't say anything last time.

[Patrick Hines]

Of course.

[Jillian Benavalli]

And like, that's another thing we've gotta disabuse our kids of. We have to teach them what abuse is to tell us the first time, but if they don't, that they tell us anything anytime.

[Patrick Hines]

And so april, as the 13 year old who's so uncomfortable and lonely and scared, tries to do what she can do to distance herself from this guy. But it's like, what can she do? He's in her orbit. He's a famous Adult. It's not her job to do it. And meanwhile this creep who knows exactly what he's doing is finding her in the courtyard of this apartment complex. He came by in a bathrobe and sat down by me and was talking about how pretty my feet were, of all things. I was definitely not coming comfortable and I'm like doing the wince thing. Then he said to me, I need to learn to take a compliment.

[Jillian Benavalli]

When she doesn't respond the way that he wants, he says, you need to learn how to take a compliment. And I wrote the absolute fucking murder I felt when I heard that.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, elbow to the face. Instantly it is kick to the face.

[Jillian Benavalli]

This man is a monster. And it should scare everybody who's ever encountered him to think what you thought about what a wonderful person he was. How well he was able to mask the absolute monster that he. You should be terrified.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, he's made his career playing like the nice dad who you just want to, like, do good for.

[Jillian Benavalli]

And like. And he should. And also we're going to learn that he preys on these vulnerable people that he thinks he's never going to see again.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Benavalli]

These like little girls that are going to go back to Oklahoma and he'll never have to face again. Which is why I believe that the seventh Heaven set was probably safe for victims. From him at least.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Or not.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, we don't know and we shouldn't know. It's up to everyone to tell their story.

[Jillian Benavalli]

I'm just saying that, like, in order for him to continue his abuse, I think he needed his workplace to not. He needed something to point to because.

[Patrick Hines]

He needed people to say, like, I.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Absolutely not. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

But you know, at the same time, we're not hearing from them, so who knows?

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So it's the end of the summer, it's 1983, and April is laying in her swimsuit in the courtyard and the creep lures her into his apartment by promising her memorabilia from her very favorite show. So she's leaving and I think she's thinking, I want this. She's a 13 year old kid, it's her favorite show, He's a famous guy. She's been gaslighting herself that nothing bad happened.

[Jillian Benavalli]

It's the whole like Dr. Drew actually gets mad in this moment because he's like anybody who thinks April is stupid for going with him. Like, like he. Yeah, because even you and me sitting here justifying why she would feel like she could go with him and even her in this documentary justifying why she feels like she has to explain to us why she went with. It's like, girl, you went with him because you were a kid.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Jillian Benavalli]

You went with him because you were a kid. None of this is your fault because.

[Patrick Hines]

He choreographed it that way.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

And, like, it's just weird that, like, all of his interactions are just the two of them.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, he's watching her so much that he knows when Aunt Cindy's at work.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Now, once again, like, the creep is the only creep here. 13 is too young to be leaving a kid alone in a strange city by themselves five days a week. It's too much.

[Patrick Hines]

I guess she thought.

[Jillian Benavalli]

I don't know if I'm blaming it, Cindy, but. Right. But I'm just saying that, like, if we can learn lessons from this, we should know that that is. That's too much, I guess.

[Patrick Hines]

But April is now in this creep's apartment in her bathing suit.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And she's looking. And he does have cool stuff from the show. Right? Like her favorite show. This is the guy from her favorite show.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yes. Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

13 years old. And while he's like, oh, look over there. Like, here's my corner of all these things from your favorite show. So the memorabilia from the show and some pictures and stuff setting up on the top of this credenza. And I'm standing there, and I'm looking at it, and he goes, do you mind if I go get more copy comfortable? So I'm looking at this stuff, and he comes walking back from the bedroom.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Completely nude, completely naked. Now, remember, too, this has escalated. It went from, like, being outside naked to being in front of her with just his penis exposed to, like, complimenting. And now, like, this is the grooming process in action.

[Patrick Hines]

And she's terrified, and she says this thing that's just so sad. She says, I was as small as I could make myself. Like, she just wanted to disappear.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And so this creepy is just, like, puttering around the apartment again. This is what they do. Trying to normalize it. Like, trying to act like it's not actually happening so that there's nothing weird here.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So he's, like, changing a light bulb. He's acting like it's not insane and illegal that he is fully naked in front of April. This goes on for 20 minutes, and thank God Aunt Cindy comes home early from work, and April, like, sees her through the window, and she's like, my aunt's here. I got to go by. And, like, uses that as an out to run out of the apartment, and, of course, goes to shower immediately.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah. And Detective Kelly, by the way, is like, let me be clear. This is still a crime. Even though there was no touching, nothing happened. This is 100% still a crime.

[Patrick Hines]

Absolutely.

[Jillian Benavalli]

He trapped her. I mean, it's essentially kidnapping.

[Patrick Hines]

He lured her in.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. He's horrifying. So April doesn't say anything to her aunt and she goes home.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So now it's 1985, and this guy marries Faye Grant, who he met on set of that show.

[Jillian Benavalli]

And they have, they. They go over this so quickly. They have a daughter. And I was like, can we get eyes on the daughter?

[Patrick Hines]

Four years later, they have a daughter.

[Jillian Benavalli]

We only hear about this daughter one more time, but we have no. It's not our business if anything ever happened. But I'm worried for this daughter. Yeah, fam. Join the fun on DraftKings Casino, ranked the number one online casino experience.

[Patrick Hines]

They've got everything you've been searching for. Thousands of exciting games, huge jackpots, exclusive offers and more.

[Jillian Benavalli]

New players get a 10 day welcome offer.

[Patrick Hines]

500 spins on huff and more puff when you play. Just 5 bucks to start.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Download the DraftKings Casino app, sign up with code TCO and spin your favorite slots.

[Patrick Hines]

The crown is yours. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER in Connecticut. Help is available for problem gambling. Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org Please play responsibly.

[Jillian Benavalli]

21/Physically present in Connecticut, Michigan, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, West Virginia only. Void in Ontario eligibility restrictions apply.

[Patrick Hines]

New customers only. Non withdrawable casino spins issued as 50 spins per day for 10 days. Valid for featured game only and expire each day after 2024 hours. See [e-mail] promos ends 8 hours, 24.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Minutes and 25 at 11:59pm ET. Number one, based on Eilers and Krashik 2H24 product analysis. Girl function Health is a new sponsor.

[Patrick Hines]

Yep, that's right. So we chose Function because it's the only health platform that gives you access to the kind of data most people never see and the insights to, you know, actually take action.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah, fam. Insights, function health you can test over. Get this. 160 biomarkers. We're talking heart and hormones to toxins, inflammation and stress. And you can also access multi region MRI and CT scans, all tracked in one secure place.

[Patrick Hines]

Over time, it's a near 360 view to see what's happening in your body.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yes, girl. And also, did you know that there are nearly 30 biomarkers that can impact your skin more than your skin care routine. And, girl, you've got that sick skincare routine.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, that's great, because breakouts, dullness, dryness, redness, they're not just surface issues. They're internal signals. And Function helps you see them more clearly.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah. Function Health is the first health membership that gives you access to 100 plus biomarkers across the whole body. Hormones, metabolism, inflammation, heart, liver, hormones, and more, girl. Can I give you an example? Example?

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Benavalli]

So, girl, I signed up for Function. I'm obsessed. I'm getting older. I gotta track a lot of these things. And one of the things I'm really tracking is my testosterone levels. Right. Because imbalanced testosterone can drive acne, dry skin, oiliness, like, all of these different things. It's so easy to track these things with function. It's right there. It's all right in front of you. It's kind of mind boggling how even a hot dummy like me can make it make sense.

[Patrick Hines]

Yep. So function is offering 160 plus lab tests for 300 $265 to anyone who signs up between July 7 and July 11. To learn more and get started, visit www.functionhealth.com tco so 1994, he releases his debut novel, My God, called Eye Contact. He dedicated it to Faye Grant. It's a piece of fiction about a woman with sexual compulsions. A lot of fantasy. An early instance in the book is of this woman exposing herself to a minor, to a boy. This adult woman exposes herself to a young boy.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And no one thinks it's weird.

[Jillian Benavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

The publisher is like, oh, my God, A. I love it. Give me 15,000 of them. So he's on Charlie Rose, which. So, yeah. But he's at. This guy is acting like he's an expert on sexual compulsion. And it's. It's like. Well, because he is.

[Jillian Benavalli]

We hear the interview, we hear Charlie Rose asking him about sexual compulsion, and he has answers. And this is where Sashi says, but how? Like, Google didn't exist back then. So how did you find it out? You're telling us that you're an expert. How. How. How are you exactly? From sharing his personal experience and, like.

[Patrick Hines]

And no one is noticing.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Why is. Nobody's. Like, why is nobody noticing?

[Patrick Hines]

It's so weird. If Mike wrote me a book.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

That had an adult woman exposing herself to a young boy.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

I. Red flags abound, Right?

[Jillian Benavalli]

Like, how do we let Lolita get published?

[Patrick Hines]

I'd be flying away on that red flag.

[Jillian Benavalli]

100%.

[Patrick Hines]

Are you kidding me? I know what I'd be like, what is this? And not saying the wife didn't. I mean, eventually, she. She's why we're here.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Right? And, like. But honestly, if Mike did write a book like that, he would have spent two years researching it, and then he.

[Patrick Hines]

Would have written, and it would be because he's trying to do some other thing.

[Jillian Benavalli]

And. But that's the thing, is that, like, he's. This guy. Steven is this expert in sexual abuse. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

So it's not like he's an actor slash academic. This guy's just an actor. And now writing about his own sexual fantasies, but just disguising it as a woman character.

[Jillian Benavalli]

It's just such a smart observation on Saatchi's part to say, like, but how are you an expert?

[Patrick Hines]

How are you an expert?

[Jillian Benavalli]

Google didn't exist. You didn't go to school. How do you know?

[Patrick Hines]

Even worse, in 1996, he's in a TV movie called the Babysitter Seduction with poor angel Karen Russell.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Why does this movie exist? Why are we making this movie?

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, she. She was 20 years old at the time. I thought maybe she was, like, 17, but she was 20. It doesn't matter. But it's about the movie. It's a TV movie about how this guy is abusing everyone, not seducing. Don't seduce the babysitter. Because in the. In the movie, she was probably supposed to be a teenager.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Right?

[Patrick Hines]

Right. So he's playing an abuser using poor Kerry Russell, the young babysitter, and she tries to kill him and gets arrested. And that's the. That's the TV movie of the week.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Maybe I'm just so n. Were still making movies like this every day. I have no idea. But there was a time that movies like this were getting made all the time. And it was like the Crush.

[Patrick Hines]

Lolita.

[Jillian Benavalli]

I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the Alicia Silverstone one. The Crush. Yeah. I mean, and. And it was meant to be sexy.

[Patrick Hines]

And the Crush was like Lolita, but make it a thriller. And she was the bad guy.

[Jillian Benavalli]

She was the bad guy. She was the one that was. She was the seductress because Robin Hood.

[Patrick Hines]

Men, tights, couldn't look away.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Listen, Carrie, always. I will always. Love.

[Patrick Hines]

Also the Princess Bride. Sorry, everyone.

[Jillian Benavalli]

As you wish. I will always think whenever I drive past sushi samba on 7th Avenue south, the. The Valentine's Day in, like, 2003, that my friend Mike, not Jensen Harpish, and I were sitting at the bar. And Keri Russell was also sitting at the bar with her girlfriends, having drinks, crying about guys. We were crying about guys. All of a sudden, the five of us are having drinks together.

[Patrick Hines]

Who is making Keri Russell cry?

[Jillian Benavalli]

I know, but we had, like. It was the five of us for like, three hours at the bar. Best friends for one night. Fun with Keri Russell.

[Patrick Hines]

That's so fun.

[Jillian Benavalli]

And she had the fucking Keri Russell hair. It was wild.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my. Before they cut it.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Garth Anseer is here. He's another one of these TV guys.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Well, he's like the founding president and programming director of the WB network, which.

[Patrick Hines]

Is actually like, a big deal. Hello. Paging Felicity on the wb.

[Jillian Benavalli]

And he seems like a good guy, but he definitely wants to be like, I was never there. I was never on set. I didn't see anything. I don't know anything.

[Patrick Hines]

One of those guys who loves TV and then made a zillion dollars program.

[Jillian Benavalli]

And I will say he does seem like. I was noticing on my second watch, he seems approachable. Like one of those top, top, top executives that you can actually have a conversation with.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes, I guess. Would you.

[Jillian Benavalli]

I hate all of these men. I hate all the men in this documentary.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, he says something and it's like, Garth, you pronounced it wrong. Because he says.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Then it just occurred to us that it had been many years since network television had done a true family show. And what kept crossing my mind is, where is our it is Enough. Because that was a show I grew up watching, and it's a big family. So we wanted to create that ethic.

[Patrick Hines]

Years since network television did a true family show.

[Jillian Benavalli]

And I'm like, they mean Christian 100%.

[Patrick Hines]

And now Bible thumpers do not equal a family. Charmed is a family. Buffy is a family. Everyone at Kelvin hall and Felicity is a family. That's the thing, right? Family is family. But no, when they say true family show, that is a dog whistle. That is code for being Christian. Yeah.

[Jillian Benavalli]

And he's saying, like, where's our eight is enough? I barely know what the hell that is. But this is where they're like, we're going to make the 80s enough for the 90s. And they. The network head decides that they're going to make the dad a pastor, a minister, I guess. Is it the same who. Who knows? But meaning that he'll be like, the father of the family and the community. It's a whole only way to look at the family. Like, shut up.

[Patrick Hines]

And who do they call up to make this wholesome Christian family show. Aaron Spelling.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Like, Aaron Spelling. Like, fresh off of 902 0. Like, great. Let him make a million shows.

[Patrick Hines]

And he also did like Charlie's Angels in the Love Bone. His IMDb is a mile long.

[Jillian Benavalli]

It's ridiculous.

[Patrick Hines]

I was on it today. It's like. The point is, it's a big deal to have him on board. We know him as like Tori Spelling's dad, not grandfather. Dad.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Definitely Deb. Yes. Yeah, yeah. And like, also Candy Spelling's husband, not grandfather somehow.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. But like, we know from like the salacious 90210.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Why does Kandy hate Tori so much that she barely ever let her into that billion room mansion? I don't know if you were in our drag bingo for May. I did a whole mother May I sleep with Danger prize pack. And everybody got a Tori Spelling either book or DVD set.

[Patrick Hines]

And every title has some play on the word Tori, but all the letters are like. So if it's like story time. Like, the S is small.

[Jillian Benavalli]

I mean, it's a little bit like the precursor to thank you, Amy. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

If you think, all right, I'm gonna tell another queen story. When I. When I was growing up, I remember my mom went to get her nails done at a place called Nail Tech.

[Jillian Benavalli]

And that sounds very. This is what we do here.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Which is like, okay, it was a nail salon, but it was.

[Jillian Benavalli]

It's called like, nail painting place.

[Patrick Hines]

But they had like, Nail Tech, like on like a sandwich board, I guess. But it was like a long and narrow. And it just. In every way they could. They had Tina, like, and so Nail Tech, it would be the, like the N and Nail Tech would be Tina across. So it was like Nail Down. I don't know. Like, it was just like some. What do we call? Manicurist?

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

I was gonna call her a nail artist that.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Well, that works.

[Patrick Hines]

Which would have worked, but no one. It was just like Tina, this, like, Korean woman who was like, bringing her. Her business to this place. But so it was like nail tech down verb.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

Any way they could make Tina in any of the letter. Any of the letters of nail tech obsessed. And they just had it my, like, all right, we're going to.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Tina, we are doing anything we can to talk about women in this documentary. Anything. Anything we possibly can.

[Patrick Hines]

That's not very hard on this podcast, though. No, but we do that.

[Jillian Benavalli]

We just need it extra in this episode.

[Patrick Hines]

So seventh Heaven is going to be a thing. They cast the kids first, then they cast the Creep. Because he was on that monkey tail show that everyone loved. Then that guy, Rob Anderson and his lower third is seventh Heaven fan and TikTok creator.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yes. Okay. I love this. I'm so glad we're finally here. I love this guy. I started watching his seventh heaven TikToks like whenever he started making them.

[Patrick Hines]

So he's a creator who recaps things from your childhood and tells you how ridiculous it is. He's the one who told us about. Well, not like we needed to know, but the. The Never been kissed recap. He does like Berenstein bears and he. A lot of seventh Heaven.

[Jillian Benavalli]

The seventh Heaven ones are. And like he. We get a lot of his great zingers in this episode. They're.

[Patrick Hines]

So he showed up to work today.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Totally. He's this like funny, funny, awesome gay guy. What if he's not? What if he's like straight? What if he's like, my wife begs to differ.

[Patrick Hines]

I don't know.

[Jillian Benavalli]

That would be really cool.

[Patrick Hines]

I don't know.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Hey, Sharon. But like I love him so much and he's here and he's the best.

[Patrick Hines]

So he talks about the absolute absurdity of seventh Heaven. Like the fear mongering and the over the top storylines and just how like ridiculous it was.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah. But he also loved it. I loved 7th Heaven growing up. I felt like I was part of the family. I really wanted to be. This is when I would imagine Rob Anderson in here. Like squeezes in maybe before, like Simon.

[Patrick Hines]

He's doing it to be like, I loved the shit out of the show and here's what was happening.

[Jillian Benavalli]

And he's like talking about all the different characters. Like the dad was like Reverend Cannon, head of the family. Katherine Hicks plays the mom. He's like, loves her kids, but was always overworked. Always overworked.

[Patrick Hines]

What's the head? The Reba like single mom who works too numbs.

[Jillian Benavalli]

And the funny thing about the only moment I know of her in the show is when she says to the dad, I need you to know I've smoked pot.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, right. I've seen that.

[Jillian Benavalli]

It's the only line of hers.

[Patrick Hines]

And it's like. To be continued.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

It was like the only two part episode. And then it's like, should we kill her kids? I'm divorcing your mother.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Right, Right. But I will end getting full custody and she's going to prison.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. Forever.

[Jillian Benavalli]

But I will also say every clip that you see of her, she's frantically running into a room, like throwing her shoulder bag over her trying to get all the kids into the car. Just like frantically overworked. I love that tells this story about one of the episodes because, like, all of the lessons apparently happened to the younger son. And all of the lessons are ridiculous. He's like, for example, he flips off his friends at school and we see him do it and we see the mom see it from the car and he goes, they act like it was a murder.

[Patrick Hines]

It was a murder. Barry Watson played the oldest kid. Great. Jessica Biel.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Where is that guy? We haven't heard a word from him. No, no.

[Patrick Hines]

Jessica Biel was like the hot girl. She was like. They say she didn't know how pretty she was. Beverly Mitchell played the girl next door. One producer is literally like, well, she wasn't as tall as her sister, but she's nice enough.

[Jillian Benavalli]

I guess she wasn't as tall. You know who she reminded me of? She reminded me of Christine Lakin from like that kind of like tomboy character.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, they're both like, everyone's very attractive. Like, we don't have. Literally.

[Jillian Benavalli]

I stopped writing the characters down. I was like, I don't care about this anymore. I just don't care about this.

[Patrick Hines]

TikTok Rob is like, oh, Ruthie was a real bitch. She was a real brat.

[Jillian Benavalli]

And I'm like, rob, I don't think boys are allowed to say that word anymore. I'm sorry, I just don't think we are. Not even the gay ones.

[Patrick Hines]

Also Happy the dog.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Oh.

[Patrick Hines]

Which I of course had to Google.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Great. Tell me everything.

[Patrick Hines]

Happy the dog was a regular character appearing in all 243 episodes of the show.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Uh huh.

[Patrick Hines]

Their name was actually Happy. They were a rescue dog from California. They auditioned for the role and got it. And Happy, poor little happy. She died October 2010.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Aw. May she rest.

[Patrick Hines]

May she rest.

[Jillian Benavalli]

She went across the rainbow bridge.

[Patrick Hines]

She did.

[Jillian Benavalli]

But TikTok Rob is saying that the thing about seventh Heaven is that every episode was on a very special episode. You know, like in the Golden Girls where Rhodes gets aids and it's like a very special episode.

[Patrick Hines]

It's just exhausting.

[Jillian Benavalli]

He goes, they were dealing with everything. Drugs, racism, gangs, kids in the hallway, puffing paint that made you feel good about your own life because you weren't addicted to drugs and you weren't huffing paint in the hallway and your neighbor's not a gang member and your neighbor wasn't a gang member. And I was like, this is.

[Patrick Hines]

Or gay.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Well, that's what I was just gonna say. Like, you know, there were certain Subjects that were off limits. I need TikTok Rob to tell me how they handled the gay stuff.

[Patrick Hines]

Like the whole point is like look how amazing this family is. They have dinner together, they're functional. They're so white and privileged and judgmental. Be like them exact like that's the whole point. Right. Travel down the road.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Back again girl. Home Chef is back. Look, it is summertime. It is time to switch up what you're having for dinner. We've got all these summer recipes on the Home Chef. We are freaking out. We are totally obsessed. Do you love it?

[Patrick Hines]

I love it so much. Home Chef delivers fresh ingredients and Chef designed recipes conveniently to your doorstep to simplify your cooking experience. It is so. It makes things so easy.

[Jillian Benavalli]

I used to hate cooking. Now, now I kind of look forward to it because I can do it with Home Chef.

[Patrick Hines]

You know what it is for me it's the deciding.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Oh yes.

[Patrick Hines]

It's standing in the kitchen going wait.

[Jillian Benavalli]

A second, what are we going to do?

[Patrick Hines]

So users of leading meal kits have rated Home Chef number one in quality, convenience, value, taste and recipe ease.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Let me tell you about the recipe ease.

[Jillian Benavalli]

I know, me too.

[Patrick Hines]

So whether you prefer classic meal kits with pre portioned ingredients, quick 30 minute recipes, oven ready options, microwave meals or a dedicated family menu, Home Chef has everything you and your family need for hassle free delicious dinners. And they have 30 options a week.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Well that's the thing. We can't always decide cuz they're all so good. We add meals sometimes.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh you of you have to cuz it's like three.

[Jillian Benavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

And like no matter what your dietary need is, they have that gluten free so you can search for that. Perfect.

[Jillian Benavalli]

It's also super economical. We used to order out all the time or like go to a restaurant. This is so much more convenient. Home Chef customers are saving an average of 86 bucks per month on on groceries.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, because you usually have to get like a full farm of cilantro instead of just a little bit you need.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Oh, cilantro. Oh my God.

[Patrick Hines]

Your herb of choice.

[Jillian Benavalli]

So fam. For a limited time Home Chef is offering our listeners 50 off and free shipping on your first box. Plus free dessert for life.

[Patrick Hines]

Go to home chef.com TCO that's homechef.com.

[Jillian Benavalli]

TCO for 50 off your first box at free dessert for life. You know I love that free dessert.

[Patrick Hines]

Fly also that's 550 home chef.com TCO.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Must be an active subscriber to receive free dessert.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean Come on. It's a great deal, but you got to like, they're not just giving it away.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Toe the line, you guys.

[Patrick Hines]

Come on. So back with April, who was groomed by the creep and she's now. Because now seventh Heaven is a thing. And so she's watching it and she's concerned that this. He's like this father figure to these three young girls on the set.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah. Who were 14, 13 and 7 in real life. And like, God love April for paying attention and knowing to worry about these things.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, how is she not there thinking about this? Of course she's taking it. Whether it's around the world.

[Jillian Benavalli]

This is the mid-90s. Her abuse happened in 1983. And no matter how much she says, I was going to carry it with me. Like you carry it with you.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, of course. So this. The fact that seventh Heaven is a thing prompts April to tell Aunt Cindy what happened.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Aunt Cindy is appropriately horrified, but April decides to stay silent because she's like, I'd never be believed anyway. And I'm really just not in the mood to have my own life ruined.

[Jillian Benavalli]

And we should say that April by now has moved to LA and is working in the business. Like, she's working really fucking hard and she's making a name for herself and in la. And now Stephen Collins is like a really powerful guy on a super popular show.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Benavalli]

If she comes out against him, she'd be. It'd be her word against his. And like, she firmly believes because of her experience that no one's gonna believe her.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Benavalli]

And her Aunt Cindy is kind of like, that's probably a good choice.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, especially because this Garth person is here to defend Stephen. Colin saying bullshit about how every role an actor plays is really just a version of themselves. And Steve is an inherently good guy.

[Jillian Benavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

And then tell some. It's like, oh, even the actors who've played Hitler, like, what are you talking about?

[Jillian Benavalli]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

And then he tells some story, some stupid story.

[Jillian Benavalli]

So Stephen was here one time and my nephew, who was then pretty young, was kind of doing crazy things out of sight, cuz he's mischievous. And Stephen came to me and said, I need to talk to you about something. And he just like, was the father figure, saying, you know, your nephew's going. Things like that I think you should know about.

[Patrick Hines]

Garth's nephew was being annoying. And Stephen Collins narked on the kid to Garth, and that somehow proves he was an amazing guy deep down inside. First of all, kids running around at a party is so annoying. I Know, second, every role an actor plays is just part of themselves. Like, it's just a ridiculous generalization and I'm sure it happens, but it's just a very stupid thing to say in the. In order to defend a monster.

[Jillian Benavalli]

And let me also say there's another toxic thing that is happening. We see clips of it over and over and over again. Everybody in this cast is referring to the cast as a family. And that is. That is really fucking dangerous because. Because then you feel like you can't tell on your dad. Then you feel like, you know what I mean? That, like. And part of me feels like Stephen Collins was trying to build that sort of unit around him so that if anybody, if he did ever do anything or anybody did ever say anything, he would have the armor of the cast who is. Now, you don't have to do that. And this translates into any job. Your coworkers do not have to be your family. You don't have to think about them like that.

[Patrick Hines]

Go home at five o'. Clock.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Take your weekend.

[Jillian Benavalli]

And because. Because it can create an environment, can go down.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, I agree completely. Because at the end of the day, these people are just actors on a set reading lines on a page. And they're just acting now. Like, he's doing this whole thing about, like, oh, well, I'm the father. I'm like the father figure of the community and the set and the show and like, the real world and the fake world. They're just actors.

[Jillian Benavalli]

They're just actors.

[Patrick Hines]

They're just doing bits and like, it's wonderful.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Like, the problem true, too, is that monsters like this ruin it for everybody. Because you should also, if you want to go to work and get really involved with your, like, workmates, like, you should be able to do that and not have to worry. Like, it just. It just. These fucking people ruin it for everybody. And speaking of people like that, we got to talk about Melissa Henson.

[Patrick Hines]

Melissa Henson, VP of Programs for the Parents Television and Media Council. It's a watchdog group.

[Jillian Benavalli]

They're like a Christian overlord organization.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. She says that television is disgusting filth. And she uses, Wait for it, Everyone friends as an example.

[Jillian Benavalli]

So, like, look, I want to go on the record and say it is fine to monitor what your kids watch. It is good for you to let. But, like, this whole idea that unless it is a Christian values, white, heterosexual, family show, everything else is of the devil, which is basically what she's saying. TV was becoming increasingly unfriendly to family audiences. And so it was increasingly difficult to.

[Patrick Hines]

Find programs that parents would feel comfortable watching with their kids in the room.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Let alone watch with their children. Ma', am, go get a life. It scares me that people like this have power. You know, it scares me that people like her get to decide what is good for my family to watch on TV.

[Patrick Hines]

And wasn't Friends on at like 9 o'.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Clock? Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Like apparently there's an episode where Chandler and Joey get free porn and they're afraid to turn off their TV so that in case they lose.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah. Is it such a bad conversation for you to have a conversation with your 16 year old son about porn? That's like exactly when you should be talking to him about it.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm assuming I don't know that episode. I'm assuming it makes those two guys look like fucking idiots, right? Like loser. Like it's supposed to be.

[Jillian Benavalli]

But like even if it doesn't, this is the whole thing. Like we live in a world where lots of different people want lots of different things and everybody has to, within reason and within the law, have to have access to the things that they want. And Melissa, I'm sorry, you don't get to decide for everybody.

[Patrick Hines]

Like Melissa loved 7th Heaven and she's like the fathered man of respect, right? He wasn't a clown. And I'm like, wow, Melissa, you sound super fun.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Because she points to the, the Al Bundy one. What was that?

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, Married with children.

[Jillian Benavalli]

He doesn't look good, Melissa. It's not like anybody is celebrating him. Nobody is celebrating Archie Bunker. Nobody is saying like, these are the kinds of men we want our, our boys to turn into, you idiot.

[Patrick Hines]

And must everything be morally perfect? That's boring.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

Like even now, like I can't watch Succession. Everyone's so evil.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Uh huh, uh huh.

[Patrick Hines]

That's the point, friend. Like it would be.

[Jillian Benavalli]

And like, no, your 16 year old probably shouldn't be watching Succession. But if you catch him watching an episode, why don't you sit down and have a conversation with your kid about what they saw and that's fine.

[Patrick Hines]

But kids aside, even people now this like moral superiority that everyone has. Like oh my God, my favorite reference is this like listicle bullshit I saw where it was like 11 reasons why Beetlejuice is Problematic.

[Jillian Benavalli]

And I'm like, shut up.

[Patrick Hines]

He's a demon.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Oh my God.

[Patrick Hines]

Geena Davis spends 90 minutes telling us what a demon he is. That's like he tried to like marry Lydia and that's like super problematic.

[Jillian Benavalli]

It's literally Daisy's favorite movie.

[Patrick Hines]

He's a demon.

[Jillian Benavalli]

She's 11. Melissa. Am I going to hell?

[Patrick Hines]

I watched that mov a thousand times.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Me too. I saw it in the movie theater when I was in third grade.

[Patrick Hines]

Beetlejuice is bad. Yeah, we know that.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

That's the point. The point is that we're all trying to stop Beetlejuice.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Right? Right. That's it.

[Patrick Hines]

And it's funny. And Catherine o' Hara's in it. Everyone needs to have a chance.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Maybe, maybe. What's her name? Melissa. Maybe, like, why don't you have a moment of self reflection and say, I held up this show. She never says this. I held up this show as the pinnacle of family values. This is what every family should be watching. And the guy at the helm of it was a fucking predator and monster. Take some responsibility for that, Melissa.

[Patrick Hines]

Right, because again, what an opportunity for.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Her to say, hey, not everybody who appearing as this like God loving, God fearing family man is actually who they are.

[Patrick Hines]

That's the point.

[Jillian Benavalli]

There's a real opportunity for Melissa to have a real conversation here about like, the show was great, the man was bad, and we can and should have that conversation.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Benavalli]

She never says it.

[Patrick Hines]

She just wants to like spew her bullshit. And I'm not buying it. So by the second season, seventh Heaven was insanely popular. Is there an I get it button?

[Jillian Benavalli]

I know. Like, I know, I know. Sorry, we're yelling a lot, fam. But like child abuse shit makes me really mad.

[Patrick Hines]

So it's 1997, back with April. She's living in Los Angeles full time. She's working in industry inspired by her aunt Cindy. She's working on TV commercials. And one day she finds out that she's going to be on set with none other than this creep Stephen Collins. She hasn't seen him in 14 years.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Now this makes me really sad because when she realizes that her abuser is about to be, she's going to have to work for him, essentially, she instantly feels that she has no power and there's nothing she can do. The producer is not safe to her. I want to live in a world where she could go to the producer and say, I got to go. I can't tell you why. I just need to leave. And he just says, or she just says, okay, that is not the world world that April lived in in 1997.

[Patrick Hines]

It's not the world we live in now.

[Jillian Benavalli]

No. And it's really, really sad. She literally says, I'm just stuck. And she says, he sees her. He instantly knows who she is. He. Her face is burned into his brain from 1983. He'll never forget her. She'll never forget him.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And she. He walks right up to her when.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Nobody else is around.

[Patrick Hines]

He waited till nobody else was at the table. And he came up to me and he said, I. I want you to know what I did was extremely wrong. I feel terrible about it. Please forgive me. Please forgive me.

[Jillian Benavalli]

But the thing that makes me insane about that is that he doesn't understand that what he did is unforgivable. He doesn't understand that there is no forgiveness for that. The only thing that you can do, Stephen Collins, is lock yourself away in treatment for the rest of your life. That's the best you can hope for.

[Patrick Hines]

This was damage control. We did it, of course, to make sure that she didn't say anything.

[Jillian Benavalli]

But the whole situation feels very crazy.

[Patrick Hines]

He knows that. He knows it's not sincere. He's not actually apologizing. We hear him talk about it at great lengths in two different conversations. There's no remorse there. There's no feeling. Truly, this is damage control.

[Jillian Benavalli]

And it works because she instantly thinks, well, I don't have to worry about those kids on the set anymore. He seems remorseful. He seems like he's never going to do it again. Like he got the desired results.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. So now this is crazy. It's the year 2000. Jessica Biel is famous. She's a sex symbol. And she. Which is crazy to say because when I wrote that, I didn't know how old she was at the time.

[Jillian Benavalli]

How old was she?

[Patrick Hines]

She was 17.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

So I take that. But, like, the point is that she's being portray a sex symbol. She poses for Gear magazine, which, of course, is defunct.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Was she actually topless?

[Patrick Hines]

She's topless and her arm is covering her chest. And the whole thing is like this fallen angel. Right? It's like the good girl on the Good show. And now she's, like, hot and sexy and naked on this.

[Jillian Benavalli]

She's naked, but she's covering her breasts.

[Patrick Hines]

Her arm is covering her chest. So we see footage of her years after the fact that she's talking about how it was like, oh, it's such a yikes moment for her. She was so young, she wanted to break out of this, like, stifling role on 7th Heaven. I totally get it.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Stephen Collins comes out and calls it, his words, child pornography.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Now, I couldn't understand what he was trying to. Was he calling her out? Was he calling the magazine out? Or was he calling everybody out?

[Patrick Hines]

Because this is when we Learned she was 17 years old.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And, like, I had no idea that that was the case. Like, who allowed her to do this photo shoot? But who gets in trouble the most? Jessica Biel.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Exactly. Jessica Biel still had two more years on her contract with 7th Heaven, but Jessica is a. Essentially written out of the show. She's portrayed as a troubled teen who is sent away to go live with the grandparents. Jessica Biel, she was becoming such a big star on the show. She wanted to do other stuff. To this day, Garth, the head of programming at the wb, is like, no, no, no, no. She was so famous and wanted to do other things we were letting her.

[Patrick Hines]

Out to go do.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Absolutely not.

[Patrick Hines]

And Stephen Collins. We'll talk about this in a minute. There's other shit he could have talked and spoken publicly about, like denouncing, I don't know, Jeremy London. And he doesn't.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

He wanted to vilify Jessica because she.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Was more famous than him on the show at this point.

[Patrick Hines]

But it's also just misogyny. Like, she should not be in trouble. Like, she made a choice to break out of the stifling role. Whatever. Like, it's not someone. Some other fucking adult. How many adult men were like, fuck.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah, public, of course.

[Patrick Hines]

And she gets fired. It's just fucking enraging.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

The show continues on season six. Ashley Simpson was on it for two whole seasons.

[Jillian Benavalli]

The Olsen twins.

[Patrick Hines]

I had no idea.

[Jillian Benavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Jeremy London arrives by season seven.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Basically, what's happening is that, like, the cast is coming and going, and they're bringing in, like, the parents, remember, remain. And some of the siblings remain, but they're bringing in, like, new young blood.

[Patrick Hines]

And everyone's like, oh, my God, Stephen Collins is so great. He drove a Prius when he could afford a Bentley.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God, you guys are falling for the smoke and mirrors.

[Jillian Benavalli]

And once again, they're all here just to say, like, he was so amazing on set. He would, like, stop and talk to the background actors. And nobody ever did that, you know?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Benavalli]

And Dr. Drew also says, this actually worries me. He goes out of his way to bring people into his sphere. And that actually speaks of sociopathy. I don't know him, but I worry.

[Patrick Hines]

And, I mean, that's grooming, too.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Well, what I was going to say was that, like, introducing yourself to background actors is saying, it's like seeing April in the living room. I'm the man with all the power. This is my set. I'm the star. I'm choosing to give you attention. It's less Nice than it is controlling.

[Patrick Hines]

I like from his point of view. But I think introducing yourself to the background actor should be standard.

[Jillian Benavalli]

That's what I'm saying is that, like, everybody should do that, but he ruins it for everybody else. And, like, I think what I'm saying and what Dr. Drew is saying is that knowing what we know now, we're seeing what he's trying to do here. He's trying to build up this, this, this armor around him so no one can impugn his character.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. He's building himself.

[Jillian Benavalli]

By the way, it worked because these men now in 2025, sat down for this interview knowing that he did all this and are still here to talk.

[Patrick Hines]

About how amazing and actively putting their heads in the sand about it, which we'll get to. So in 2004, Jeremy London gets fired from 7th Heaven. And we get the story about how he was arrested on domestic violence charges.

[Jillian Benavalli]

But says it was all a lie. Hollywood abandoned me and chose to believe lies about me. I think one of the strangest things about the business is the world is watching always. And it wants to eat you and it wants you to fail. Hollywood chose to believe lies about him and turn like, oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, it's weird because in 2010. This is 2004. In 2010, he claims he was kidnapped and forced to do drugs for 12 hours. And then he was also. He would also be arrested for domestic violence again in 2012 and 2018.

[Jillian Benavalli]

He says he was kidnapped in for, like, he's living out my separate seventh.

[Patrick Hines]

Grade nightmare in 2010.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

So whatever. The point is Jeremy London gets fired from seventh Heaven for domestic violence, which you would think, like, on. On paper is like, everything seventh Heaven stands against.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Right? Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Stephen Collins didn't say anything publicly the way he vilified Jessica Biel.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, he didn't comment on the situation. He. He's the moral compass of everything, but he picks and chooses what makes him look better and what. He's just a fucking misogynist at heart, too.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So seventh Heaven was going to end and then everyone threw a fit and so they gave it another season.

[Jillian Benavalli]

People loved this show. I love your TV recaps. This is great. That's it.

[Patrick Hines]

People were, like, crying like, the Melissa of the world were writing letter. Letter writing campaigns to say, like, we can't have all this filth. Like, whatever.

[Jillian Benavalli]

And like, it. It ends on top. Like, it's final after the 11th season. It, whatever. It ends with 9 million viewers. But, like, at the end of the day, Like Stephen Collins, post seventh, Heaven goes on to continue his like, amazing career. They're talking about. He was played a dad on the Office on a show called revolutions.

[Patrick Hines]

That's a J.J. abrams show.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah. So here we go. In 2014, October 7, 2014, TMZ puts out a recording of Stephen in a therapy session with his wife from two.

[Patrick Hines]

Years earlier in 2012.

[Jillian Benavalli]

And it was recorded without his knowledge or permission. And basically it's his wife Faye, the woman that he married in the 80s from that TV, that monkey TV show that he did. They're still married. In this recording, Stephen recounts his experience with a young girl he allegedly abused before April in 1973. This child was 10 years old. Steven was 25. He was living in New York at the time. And this girl was before April. This wasn't even April.

[Patrick Hines]

This was in 1973.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

He was 25 and she was 10.

[Jillian Benavalli]

And like, we're not going to talk about it or play the audio because it is so disgusting. But he is explaining what he did with this 10 year old girl and it is straight up sexual assault of a 10 year old.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And he says that this has happened three times, quote, over the years with that one girl.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Three times with. With that one girl. That's like before we even get to April or anybody else.

[Patrick Hines]

And so, like, we talk a lot on this podcast about, like, what is to be done if there you're someone who's wired this way. Like there are SVU episodes about it.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Like, what if you're a pedophile and you can acknowledge it? Obviously you can't be in society. What do we do with you?

[Patrick Hines]

So at first there was a part of me that was like, wait, what is the context here? Is he trying to get help and it was leaked? Like, what? Like, what is that? Like, that was like, I was just curious if that. No, that's not where we're going. Yeah, but like, at first I thought like, that would be very similar to what conversations would be like. Right, right. And then you're like, no, no, no. Because there's no remorse, there's no desperation.

[Jillian Benavalli]

There'S annoyed to have to tell the story.

[Patrick Hines]

There's no, like, oh my God, I'll do anything. I can't live like this anymore. Like, there's none of that.

[Jillian Benavalli]

And even shame. There's no shame of like, I know this is wrong. I couldn't help myself. I know I'm a monster. There's no shame. And I think to me that is even the scariest part.

[Patrick Hines]

What happened is that he got caught in some way by his wife. And he said, yeah, fine, I'll go to therapy to, quote, work on it. And he's in a very, like, monotone way telling her what he thinks she wants to hear to shut her up or hold him. And I guess something else happened in the two years and she released this tape.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Well, right. And so Sachi is saying, like, I.

[Patrick Hines]

Don'T know why Faye taped it. Some people think it's because she just was taping her sessions to listen to them later and maybe reflect on them. Other people think that she recorded them because she knew that he had done this and wanted proof of it. There's a third theory that she taped it because she was trying to get a settlement out of him and their divorce and this was a good way to blackmail him.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Or was she, like, using it because she knew that she could get a better settlement? Settlement in the divorce.

[Patrick Hines]

And he has confessed to abusing three different girls because he mentions April.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And, like, the name is bleeped out by the wife, but he mentions her because he describes her as, quote, living with the neighbor across the way.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And as the tape continues, he mentions the family's babysitter. Just like that creepy movie with Kerry Russell.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

And then the recording ends abruptly. So the most important thing here. It's so disgusting. And the way he says it is so disgusting. But he has just confessed to abuse using three different girls since at least 1973.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Here's my question for you. That therapist is a mandatory reporter. And now I don't understand how I know that. We're going to talk about how the statute of limitations on all of these cases are up and they're whatever. But, like, once a pedophile, always a pedophile. Like, this man needs to be stopped. And I sincerely hope that that therapist went screaming to the fucking cops at the end of that session.

[Patrick Hines]

I don't know what happened with that, obviously. Like, I mean, his wife is the one who released it, so. Yeah, but all these men are defending him. Like, no, no, no. That's not the Steven I knew.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Well, because Jeremy London thing that sent me through the roof, Jeremy London says, I know something happened, but I don't know what happened. You don't know what happened? We weren't there. The thing about it, Jeremy, is there's a recording of him saying what happened. So you willfully ignored that.

[Patrick Hines]

And the producers are like, well, did you listen to the tape?

[Jillian Benavalli]

Right?

[Patrick Hines]

He's like, no. And they're like, well, now, seems like a Great time to press play.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Because he also says, you're messing with a man. That was, like, America's dad. I wish he was my dad. I still want him to be my dad. He says that.

[Patrick Hines]

Why is he here? This is the. But they're scraping the bottom of the barrel. No one will talk about.

[Jillian Benavalli]

I know. And, like, he's saying that as they press play on the tape for him to listen to, Stephen Collins actually said, and as soon as it's over, I'm a dad first and foremost, above everything else. And so my first thoughts always go to the children. Stephen Collins would be a dead man if that was my child. Stephen Collins would be a dead man if that were my daughter.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, but he says it like, fine, thank you for saying the right thing, Jeremy. But he says, I'm a dad, right. If that was my kid, Stephen Collins would be dead. A quick reminder, you don't have to have kids to be disgusted by this.

[Jillian Benavalli]

My point is, he only listens to the tape because he was made to do it on camera like that. That tape has been out there since 2012.

[Patrick Hines]

And then gives the appropriate response.

[Jillian Benavalli]

And he sat down to defend Stephen Collins. He sat down to say, you don't know what happened. I don't know what happened. We weren't there. He only. He's only saying the right thing because he has to, because he's on camera.

[Patrick Hines]

And because it relates to him in some way. Because he's deaf.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

I really don't care.

[Jillian Benavalli]

It's. It's like, this is what I'm talking about with, like, the maleness of this documentary.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, he did awful things. The end. I don't care if you're dead.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

It should not matter. So in 2012, Faye records a therapy session, and she emails the survivor from 1973, who was 10 years old at the time.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So in 2012, which, again, is two years before this is leaked, so, like, moves were being made. I don't know if the therapist was involved or what, but, like, that woman in 2012 files a police report, and.

[Jillian Benavalli]

We learned that it was so much worse, of course, than what Stephen Collins said happened. Just. It was a lot worse.

[Patrick Hines]

So NYPD opens an investigation against this creep, but the major problem is that the statute of limitations is up on the case. It was up in 1986, but she still filed the report because she says.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Basically, like, once a pedophile, always a pedophile.

[Patrick Hines]

But it was still going to be investigated because you might find other cases that you can't prosecute.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Maybe in investigating this case, we'll find others that we can charge because they.

[Patrick Hines]

They give us like, a little graphic. Girl number one was in 1973. Girl number two, which is April.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And it was in 1983. And then girl number three is 1994.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Right. So they're saying there' 10 years in between, but, like, very likely there are victims in between those 10 years.

[Patrick Hines]

So April calls police and she's like, hi. Like, he's talking about me on that tape.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And so the LAPD takes a statement, the NYPD makes a statement, but again, the statute of limitations, so absolutely nothing happens.

[Jillian Benavalli]

And they tell it like, all of the cases against Stephen Collins just fall apart. They can't do anything about it.

[Patrick Hines]

We get this onscreen text. Stephen Collins faced no criminal or civil prosecution for his alleged sex crimes against minors. The fact that they have to put.

[Jillian Benavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Alleged sex. When we have April here talking to.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Us about it, we have him here admitting that he did it before he.

[Patrick Hines]

Even goes on fucking Katie couric.

[Jillian Benavalli]

So in December 2014, this moron sits down with Katie Couric for an episode of 2020 to describe the sexual abuse against the 10 year old.

[Patrick Hines]

The amount of hours that he prepped for this. Like, he should have gone into hiding.

[Jillian Benavalli]

But no, the thing is, he's admitting to pedophilia. We'll learn. There's actually another word for what he actually is. He's attracted to girls between the ages of 11 and 14. And there's another word for that, but he's like, sitting down, saying, literally, yeah, I did it. I like, yeah, I did it in.

[Patrick Hines]

The most disgusting word. So he says things like, you know, I'm here to tell my truth. He admits the first victim was 10, but then says, like, he tries to. And abusers do this all the time. Like, we. We hear this kind of speech a lot. But like, oh, back in 1973, like, that was such a long time ago. We shouldn't care about it anymore. Or like, I exposed myself to this young woman. She's not a young woman child, she's 10. Or he'd say, like, I took her hand, I moved it so that she was touching me.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Inappropri. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So, like, he shifts ownership. It's like, no, no, no, you did this.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Right?

[Patrick Hines]

Then it becomes we. We realize we did something bad. We sat there in shock, like, they're in it together. Like, she's an active participant in this thing that, like, they both knew was bad, but they just couldn't fight the feeling or whatever. When he fudgeing abused her. That's assault.

[Jillian Benavalli]

And it's just mind blowing to me that this man has such an inflated sense of his importance of who he is that if he sits down and acknowledge it and quote, takes responsibility that he can could then move on from it.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Benavalli]

You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And Sachi says this thing where like, because he, he wants flowers and a medal for removing her hand after 45 seconds. And Sachi was like, that's his interpretation. He's saying it's 45 seconds. Let's be fair and say it's 45 seconds. I think you should take some time to count 45 seconds. And you tell me that's not a long time for a 10 year old to have her hand on your penis. You tell me if that's way too long for a 10 year old to have her hand on your penis. The answer is it is.

[Jillian Benavalli]

I mean, of course it's all. And like. And because this was pre. Me too. Like, he literally just like skates off into the sunset and faces no consequences.

[Patrick Hines]

Because he says, oh, no, no. Like he has three stories about this, yet he's not attracted to underage girls.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

And I'm like, really? How many innocent people have one story like this?

[Jillian Benavalli]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

You have three that we know of.

[Jillian Benavalli]

I mean, it's disgusting.

[Patrick Hines]

And Katie Couric asks, are you a pedophile? And he goes, I do not fit the either clinical or dictionary definition of it. And I'm like, what kind of answer is that? Guess what, I'll tell you. A prepar. Impaired one.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah. And Sachi says a pedophile technically refers to a person attracted to children under the age of about 10. So he's actually a hebophiliac, which is someone attracted to prepubescent. She says Girls mostly, ages 11 to 14.

[Patrick Hines]

And in both of those, in both of those definitions it says C Creep.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Exactly. I mean, my, my God, I can't.

[Patrick Hines]

Believe we're splitting hairs. I'm not throwing shade at Sachi. I know she said the wrong thing, but of course. Oh, there are like different names for different. Like oh, oh, like after a while, like a certain age is not what they're into.

[Jillian Benavalli]

I was really actually interested to learn that there was another wor for like the difference between being attracted to it. Like a 2 year old. Sure. And an 11 year old. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

You should still go to hell for it.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah. And like in the end, like, there's no consequences for him.

[Patrick Hines]

Zero.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Dr. Drew says Stephen Collins now Lives with a woman who is 40 years younger than him. She was a super fan. The age difference, given what we know about his history, does certainly raise an eyebrow. Let's hope he can commit to this woman and not perpetrate on others. She was a super fan.

[Patrick Hines]

Yep. He's in his 70s, she's in her 30s, she's German and they live in a small town in Iowa. Like, he gets out of this pretty unscathed. And like none of the women from his show are here to talk about their experiences. And like, good for them. Yeah, I wouldn't want to talk about it either. Good, bad or indifferent. Like, get this away from me. But like, all the men are just like, but he was so nice that time.

[Jillian Benavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

He was so great that he was.

[Jillian Benavalli]

America's dad and he was my dad.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, what they're literally saying, what they're saying without saying it is like, I don't want that image to be ruined. So let's not talk about it. I'm not going to listen to the tape until I'm four. I don't want like, you just don't want to accept it. And like you got to tired. I Jeremy all myself.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Jeremy Lennon says, I mean, people believe lies about me. I'm not going to believe lies about him before hearing the tape. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Like, why would you even say that? Why would you even say that?

[Jillian Benavalli]

It's just so. Fuck.

[Patrick Hines]

It doesn't make any fudgeing sense.

[Jillian Benavalli]

In the end, we get this, you know, on screen text. It says if you or someone you love has been affected by sexual abuse, help us. Available 24. 7 through the National Sexual Abuse Hotline at 800- 656-HOPE. Or you can visit hotline.R-A-I-N-N.org Brain is.

[Patrick Hines]

A great organization too.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah. Oh my God, girl.

[Patrick Hines]

This guy.

[Jillian Benavalli]

I think we screamed a lot.

[Patrick Hines]

We did. I'm out of water. I need more water.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Fam. Don't forget to check us out over on page patreon at the five dollar level, you get over 450 full bonus episodes to download and binge. The second you sign up, you get drag. Bingo. There's all kinds of other levels to get even more if that's what you want.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Benavalli]

We've got a book club with hundreds and hundreds of people in it. If you want to join, just go into the Facebook group, go to the featured post and just fill out the Google form and that's it.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, the books are so good and you're voting on them. You guys are all deciding what you want to read. So it's like, for you, by you. It's amazing.

[Jillian Benavalli]

It's a great way to, like, find a little. A little bit of community within the community. What are we doing next?

[Patrick Hines]

Girl Manhunt. The liar, the thief, the con man. This is on Apple TV and Amazon Prime. Lots of requests from our UK listeners. This is a UK story.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Oh, love.

[Patrick Hines]

Which weirdly comes to New York City. We'll get into it. We're back and forth. We're jumping across the pond.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Back and forth, across the pond.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. The woman. It's a crazy story.

[Jillian Benavalli]

All right, great. Stay tuned for the trailer for that. And that's all.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, we love you. Stay safe out there, please.

[Jillian Benavalli]

And if you see Stephen Collins, tell him we said fuck you.

[Patrick Hines]

Give him a nice little drop kick in the face. YouTube, a tutorial how to drop, drop kick and drop kick him.

[Jillian Benavalli]

All right, great.

[Patrick Hines]

And then punch a Nazi.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Okay?

[Patrick Hines]

And then also stay safe.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Okay.

[Patrick Hines]

Love you. £75,000. £130,000. 50,000. The money was just going out like water. He took £600,000. You hear about con stories and they.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Last, like, a few months. They don't last years and have a.

[Patrick Hines]

Child in the process. This was a man who was excellent.

[Jillian Benavalli]

At what he did.

[Patrick Hines]

What he did was basically ruin people's lives.

[Jillian Benavalli]

He's stolen my money, and I wanted answers. She would chase that man to the end of the earth.

[Patrick Hines]

We need to find him. So we got onto the Internet looking for a private investigator.

[Jillian Benavalli]

I told him, listen, we know where he is. You have to come with us right now.

[Patrick Hines]

He just puffed out his chest and.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Just said, don't do this to me, Chrissy. He was like a cornered rat, and she found him. You don't want to think that you've been in a relationship with a predator.