440: Undercover Underage: Every Aspect Matters (S1E1)

Summary

Podcast Summary: True Crime Obsessed - Episode 440: "Undercover Underage: Every Aspect Matters (S1E1)"

Introduction to "Undercover Underage"

In Episode 440, titled "Undercover Underage: Every Aspect Matters," the hosts of True Crime Obsessed delve into the intricate operations of a true crime series focused on combating online child exploitation. This episode marks the first season of "Undercover Underage," highlighting the meticulous efforts required to protect minors from predators on the internet.

Overview of the Operation

The episode centers around Rue, a 38-year-old mother of three, who leads a nonprofit organization named Sosa (Safe Online from Sexual Abuse). Rue and her dedicated team adopt teenage personas to engage with and entrap adults seeking inappropriate relationships with minors online. The hosts emphasize the gravity and emotional toll of this undercover work.

Rue (03:36): “Every day, adults exploit and abuse minors online.”

Creating Authentic Teenage Personas

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on the creation and maintenance of believable teenage personas. The team meticulously crafts each decoy's online presence, ensuring consistency across various platforms such as TikTok, Instagram, Reddit, and Facebook. This involves detailed backstories, including family dynamics, hobbies, and personal histories, to withstand the scrutiny of predators.

Rue (04:34): “We have spent time building what a teenager's life might be. So they have family and friends and hobbies.”

The hosts highlight the importance of authenticity, noting that any inconsistency can alert predators to the deception, thereby jeopardizing the entire operation.

Engaging with Predators: Case Studies of Kevin and Mitch

The episode provides in-depth accounts of interactions with two primary targets: Kevin and Mitch. These case studies illustrate the challenges and strategies involved in gathering evidence against predators.

• Kevin's Interaction:

  Kevin initiates contact by complimenting the teenage persona, Flory, and quickly escalates the interaction by sending explicit photos and requesting a video call.

  Patrick (10:03): “He sends a really disturbing request to Flory that she doesn't really know how to handle just yet because he wants to meet her at a motel 15 minutes away.”

  Despite Kevin's aggressive advances, the team focuses on extracting valuable information without compromising Rue's safety. The conversation reveals Kevin's manipulative tactics, including fabricated personal details aimed at gaining trust.

• Mitch's Interaction:

  Mitch presents himself as an older individual seeking illicit relationships, further complicating the operation with his attempt to verify Rue's persona's age and authenticity.

  Patrick (41:00): “He’s a 64-year-old man claiming to work at a school, sending sexually explicit messages to a 15-year-old.”

  Mitch's blatant use of his real information contrasts Kevin's deceptive approach, highlighting different predator behaviors and the corresponding strategies the team employs to counteract them.

Challenges and Emotional Toll

The hosts candidly discuss the emotional and psychological strain of engaging with such disturbing content. Rue openly expresses her discomfort and the difficulty of maintaining her composure while performing her role.

Julia (14:06): “I feel so uncomfortable is not the right word because I'm happy to be talking about it. But I feel like, for lack of a better way of saying it, just totally fucking skeeved out.”

The team also grapples with the frustrations of piecing together incomplete or misleading information provided by predators, which often hampers their efforts to identify and apprehend the offenders.

Collaborations with Law Enforcement

Detective Mark Suda from the Norwalk Police Department is introduced as a key collaborator in the operation. His expertise in investigating human trafficking and sex abuse cases complements Rue's undercover work, aiming to bridge the gap between online interactions and real-world enforcement.

Detective Mark (27:00): “That's our job and that's what we're here for, to take these guys off the street.”

The collaboration underscores the complexity of tracing digital predators and the necessity of combining technological prowess with traditional investigative techniques.

Insights and Conclusions

The episode culminates with reflections on the broader implications of online predation and the critical role of organizations like Sosa in safeguarding minors. The hosts emphasize the importance of awareness, parental vigilance, and the relentless pursuit of justice against online predators.

Rue (47:08): “The Internet is uncharted territory. Every kid needs someone in their corner.”

Rue shares poignant testimonials from survivors, highlighting the profound impact of online abuse and the need for supportive interventions. The narrative underscores that victims are never to blame and that collective efforts are essential in combating this pervasive issue.

Final Thoughts

"Undercover Underage: Every Aspect Matters" provides a compelling look into the hidden battles fought to protect children from online exploitation. Through detailed storytelling and candid discussions, the True Crime Obsessed hosts illuminate the dedication and sacrifices of those on the front lines of this digital war. The episode serves as both a cautionary tale and a beacon of hope, illustrating that with determination and strategic collaboration, meaningful progress can be made in safeguarding the vulnerable.

Notable Quotes:

• Rue (03:36): “Every day, adults exploit and abuse minors online.”
  (Timestamp: 03:36)

• Rue (04:34): “We have spent time building what a teenager's life might be. So they have family and friends and hobbies.”
  (Timestamp: 04:34)

• Patrick (10:03): “He sends a really disturbing request to Flory that she doesn't really know how to handle just yet because he wants to meet her at a motel 15 minutes away.”
  (Timestamp: 10:03)

• Julia (14:06): “I feel so uncomfortable is not the right word because I'm happy to be talking about it. But I feel like, for lack of a better way of saying it, just totally fucking skeeved out.”
  (Timestamp: 14:06)

• Detective Mark (27:00): “That's our job and that's what we're here for, to take these guys off the street.”
  (Timestamp: 27:00)

• Rue (47:08): “The Internet is uncharted territory. Every kid needs someone in their corner.”
  (Timestamp: 47:08)

This episode not only sheds light on the sinister underbelly of online interactions but also celebrates the unsung heroes dedicated to combating such heinous crimes. True Crime Obsessed continues to blend humor and heart with serious discussions, making complex issues accessible and engaging for their audience.

Transcript

[Julia Betavale]

I went and saw a jazz show last night.

[Patrick Hines]

You did?

[Julia Betavale]

Yeah. There's a new place in my neighborhood called so and so's. It's like this, like.

[Patrick Hines]

That's such a jazz club.

[Julia Betavale]

I know. And it was like. It's like a restaurant, supper club, jazz thing.

[Patrick Hines]

Fun.

[Julia Betavale]

My friend Nick's a jazz singer and we went some do a little thing.

[Patrick Hines]

That's so great.

[Julia Betavale]

It was so fun.

[Patrick Hines]

You recommend so much.

[Julia Betavale]

Go to Sew and so's if you're in New York City. It's so fun.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, not an ad. This is just like a real organic conversation.

[Julia Betavale]

Hi. Julia Betavale.

[Patrick Hines]

Hello. Patrick Hines.

[Julia Betavale]

All right, tell them what they need to know.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay. Two things. Discord. Yeah, and we also have a YouTube.

[Shelby]

Oh, that's it?

[Julia Betavale]

That's. You're not gonna. You're not gonna give a bag?

[Patrick Hines]

Well, I was gonna go into it, but, like, they are both channels. They both have channels. That's something they have in common. No, the Discord is very, very fun. We have a bunch of channels about, like, true crime stuff or TCO related stuff and then not TCO related stuff. So it's like really, really fun. Really, really kind. And we also have a YouTube channel where you can, like, watch us talk about these things.

[Julia Betavale]

Look, you can watch our full video episodes. This is something we worked really hard to get done. Now we get. We got it done every week. We have almost 20,000 subscribers. It's amazing. Like, more than 12,000 of you are videos, like, per video. It's really. And here's my ask. Even if you don't like YouTube, go subscribe to the channel if you have a YouTube. Because the more people who subscribe, the more the algorithm will show it to people who are. YouTube is all about discoverability.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay.

[Julia Betavale]

So I've been saying Pod Save America asked me to do it for them, so I did. I don't watch their YouTube stuff.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay.

[Julia Betavale]

But I subscribe for that.

[Patrick Hines]

How is their YouTube stuff?

[Julia Betavale]

It's good.

[Patrick Hines]

I don't know. You haven't watched it?

[Julia Betavale]

Well, they're all very cute and they're all very, like, politics boys. And I like, I love Pod Save America, but I'm not gonna watch their show.

[Patrick Hines]

But as a supporter of their show. You're clicking.

[Julia Betavale]

And our video episodes are really fun to. Because we're very expressive.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, we are.

[Julia Betavale]

I fall out of my chair a lot. I knock things over. I'm pulling a china shop. It's true Crime obsessed podcast on the YouTubes.

[Patrick Hines]

There it is.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And the Discord link is in these show notes.

[Shelby]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

I will never know how to get there.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, it's fine. We're having fun over here.

[Julia Betavale]

I'm not needed. I know, I know. What are we talking about today?

[Patrick Hines]

Okay, so. Hi. This is one of our bonus episodes. I believe it's our seventh bonus episode of the year.

[Julia Betavale]

It's our most upsetting bonus episode of all time.

[Patrick Hines]

So this is a show. Hi, Tom. Tom is our editor.

[Julia Betavale]

Hi, Tomi.

[Patrick Hines]

Tom knows people who work. Worked on this show.

[Julia Betavale]

No way.

[Patrick Hines]

So this show is called Undercover Underage. It's season one, episode one. It's called Every Aspect Matters. But Tom knows people and he was asking if we wanted to cover it, but it was like before, like a long time ago. Cause this show's been out for a while.

[Julia Betavale]

Oh, wow.

[Patrick Hines]

But when we started doing the bonus episodes, I thought that maybe we'd try it out a little bit. So it's tough.

[Julia Betavale]

Let me say this right now. I know some of you listen with your kids. This is not one for them.

[Patrick Hines]

No, it's a very important show. They're doing important things. I want the awareness out there, but it's tough.

[Julia Betavale]

Like, take the things you learned from this episode and go have a conversation with. With your kids. But this is not for kids. This is just. This is a lot of. This was, like, very hard for me. I'm very glad we're doing it. I'll do anything Tom says. Sometimes I butt dial him like Jen McKay. But two in the morning?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Only Tom answers before I go straight to voicemail.

[Julia Betavale]

And he's like, patrick from my pocket Patrick.

[Patrick Hines]

That's how a real butt dial works. So weird. Just saying.

[Julia Betavale]

Check. Carrie.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, God.

[Julia Betavale]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Karen, shut the fuck off. What a mess.

[Julia Betavale]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

Anyway, that's Bev. Sustained. No, I won't. I won't.

[Julia Betavale]

Okay. You know better than that, Mr. Jackson.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, God.

[Julia Betavale]

I know. Shame on you, sir. Shame on you. I know, Kev.

[Patrick Hines]

Shut up. Can you all shut up and go home?

[Julia Betavale]

Thanks, everyone.

[Shelby]

Shut up.

[Patrick Hines]

I know. So, okay, so yes, this is called Undercover Underage. Episode one, Season one.

[Rue]

Every day, adults exploit and abuse minors online.

[Julia Betavale]

Super attractive young girl.

[Rue]

My name is Rue, and my nonprofit organization helps law enforcement stop. Would this be enough to get a warrant?

[Julia Betavale]

All you need is probable cause.

[Rue]

We have all the evidence we need. I'm a 38 year old mother of three. But with the help of my team, I transform into a teenage girl. We become the target to help protect the underage.

[Julia Betavale]

Rue, I think you should duck down. He's staring straight at you.

[Patrick Hines]

We get an on screen text that says, in 2021, a production crew was granted access to film school Sosa, a nonprofit organization focused on the prevention and awareness of child sex abuse and exploitation online. This is those people who are like 35 years old, but they're posing as teenagers to, like, reel in these creeps and then hand them over to police. That's what this whole thing is.

[Julia Betavale]

This really is about people sexually abusing your kids from five states away. This is every parent's worst nightmare about your kids being sexually abused by strangers on the Internet.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And so RuPaul is our hero, our host. She runs the nonprofit. She runs Sosa. It's Safe from online sex abuse. She and her crew get the evidence by pretending to be these young girls and, like, work with the. Work with law enforcement to get these sons of bitches.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

And the setup here is that they have a house in Connecticut. It says somewhere in Connecticut. And these, like, there's a whole team that works there, but there's primarily these three women who pose as these underage girls. Here's my question. Do they own the house? Are they renting that? Like, what's the deal?

[Patrick Hines]

I don't know. I don't know about that part.

[Julia Betavale]

And my only other question is, are they revealing themselves by making this documentary and therefore making their work less effective?

[Patrick Hines]

I don't. That I. I don't know about. Because there's one guy that we catch and one guy that we don't in this episode. So I don't know.

[Julia Betavale]

It's insane how these predators know exactly what to do and what not to do. It really is sickening. Absolutely terrifying. And as a parent who would love to believe that it's not as bad as they say it is, it's worse. And that was not an easy pill to swallow.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. You know, I've said this fact before on the show. It's a shitty fact.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

But most of the child sex abuse images on the dark web are pictures that parents have posted thinking that.

[Julia Betavale]

Think about that. You saying that all the time.

[Patrick Hines]

So that's just like, not to ruin anyone's day, but like, think about what you post.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Online. Think about what you post about your kids. Especially, you know how I feel about people posting their kids online. I've been very honest about it.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Whole family vlogger thing.

[Shelby]

Oh, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Using kids as content. I just. It is. I don't like it.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Even if you have the best intentions, which I don't know, it's still. You want attention On a child. It's very weird to me. So anyway, who is a 38 year old mother of three, but she, quote, transforms into a teenage girl and she actually like, like talks to these creeps. Yeah, but the point is that to make sure it doesn't happen to a real child and the phone call she.

[Julia Betavale]

Has with them is just like, there's a, it's a multi pronged approach. She's, she's communicating with them via text. We're going to learn. These women in their Personas are on every platform, like Tik Tok, Instagram, Reddit, Facebook. They're everywhere. They will do actual video calls with these people. They will do texting with them. They like it is. They are very committed to the bit, as they say.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. So we're in this, like, we start in this war room, this war house, basically, and it's ruined her team. And they're set up in that house in Connecticut. Lots of computers, several people hard at work and Ru's like, everyone ready? All right, let's met our battle stations. And I'm like, let's fudgeing go.

[Julia Betavale]

Now, is this, does Ru have another job on top of this or this is her job?

[Patrick Hines]

I don't know. Okay, let's ask her. Let's get an interview and ask her. Yeah, but the team members. So we have like photo experts in retouching photos to make these women look like 13 year olds, down to the detail. Like, oh, that eyebrow looks too manicured for a 13 year old.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Social media experts, online researchers. So Shelby runs, she's the social media lead.

[Shelby]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

She's talking about a Persona named Florie. Now, remember, like, just, I know it might be hard, especially if you haven't seen this episode. All of the, quote, young girls we're talking about are fake. They're Personas. They're played by 35, 38 year old women. Yes, but they're Personas. Right. So Flori is an account they have on Instagram that is already, quote, quite popular. And so Shelby is working on making this account seem as real as possible.

[Julia Betavale]

And they're so good at it. You know, really good work. Well, they use all the hashtags, but.

[Patrick Hines]

They also, like most teen girls, these Personas have the same username across the board. If I say that I'm a Capricorn on Reddit, I've got to make sure I'm always saying I'm a Capricorn in all my other platforms. When I mentioned, you know, I'm 15, is that okay? They replied yeah, why not? You can't do this as you go. You can't like make it up as you go along. Like these Personas have to be fully formed people.

[Shelby]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Like girls. Like how your accounts would be in real life, Right?

[Shelby]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

If my birthday's December 21st on one thing, it's going to be that everyone. Because I'm a real person, Right?

[Julia Betavale]

Yeah.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

And the thing that we really learn is that these predators know to check. Like they know if they're paranoid about it, they get this stick. They must be. If they're getting any whiff that you're not who you say you are, they're going to stalk you on all of your platforms to see if there's any inconsistencies.

[Rue]

Travel down, girl.

[Julia Betavale]

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[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. So their whole thing is like making better kitchen products that are better for you.

[Shelby]

Yes.

[Julia Betavale]

Correct.

[Patrick Hines]

So everybody wins.

[Julia Betavale]

So listen, they're four piece cookware set is the best way to overhaul your kitchen with multifunctional high performance, space saving pots and pans. We did it. It actually comes with like a, a space organizer that you can put all your stuff in the lids.

[Patrick Hines]

The lid organizer.

[Julia Betavale]

I know. And like the pans and the pot. It really, it's such a cool feature. I've never seen it before. It looks cool and we love it.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And I really want to stress, like most nonstick cookware still like to this day contains harmful chemicals like Teflon. Like they call them forever chemicals.

[Julia Betavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

I so this is like beautiful kitchenware. It's toxin free, it's high performance. It' a just a safer, simpler, like prettier way to cook.

[Julia Betavale]

Totally. And look, the cookware set will upgrade your kitchen in one fell sweep. We literally got rid of all the other stuff when we got this cookware set. It includes two multifunctional always pans and two perfect pots in mini and full sizes that replace bulky, expensive stack cookware. Get rid of it.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, it's just four pieces. You can sear, you can saute, you can fry, you can bake, you can boil, roast, steam, you can do it all.

[Julia Betavale]

We live in, in New York City, we never had enough room for all of our pots and pans and now we just have that and that's all we need.

[Patrick Hines]

It's 150 bucks for a cookware sets. Never in my life have I heard of that, that you can do all those things. I'm sauteing and roasting and then you.

[Julia Betavale]

Put it away in your beautiful little organizer. It's the most amazing thing.

[Patrick Hines]

Unbelievable.

[Julia Betavale]

So fam, stop cooking with toxic cookware and upgrade to our place today.

[Patrick Hines]

Visit fromourplace.com tco and use code tco for 10% off site wide with 100.

[Julia Betavale]

Day risk free trial free shipping and return. You can experience this game changing cookware with zero rest.

[Patrick Hines]

If I wasn't cooking with it like today, I'd be like, you're lying to me. Stop lying to me. I wish you would stop lying to me. But no. But no slides off the beautiful podcast.

[Julia Betavale]

And then you put it away.

[Patrick Hines]

Unbelievable. So Flori, this Persona has already been contacted by a creep. Now, legally, we can't dox these creeps.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So they give them pseudonyms. So this creep will be known as Kevin or creep number one.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

This creep DMS Flory. And we'll get into their rules about, like, the rules of this organization and how they handle all this. But this is where we are now. So this creep DM's flory. You're so beautiful. How are you liking town? He sends a photo of himself. This photo is now on the projection. The projector in the war room.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Even though when it goes up and it's all blurred, you can tell he's wearing a blue Speedo. Even though it's blurred. But one of the team members does that.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

The picture comes up and you hear someone go, ugh.

[Julia Betavale]

I know there's one person in the world who looks good in a Speedo. His name is Tom Daly. Everybody else, you need to throw them away.

[Patrick Hines]

Great.

[Julia Betavale]

Nobody ever wear one ever.

[Patrick Hines]

Or if it's not a Speedo, it's like the. What do they call them? Like brief. The bikini briefs for men. What do you call those? Yeah, like tighty whities, but blue.

[Julia Betavale]

Yes. We're like a trunk is as skimpy as I'm giving you. Everybody, you need to wear a trunk. Or longer.

[Patrick Hines]

Really?

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

I mean, it's just you. No. Well, I'm basically wearing a one piece.

[Patrick Hines]

No. But I'm surprised. You don't want to see as many people in tighty whities as you can.

[Julia Betavale]

I love a look. I love a sexy man. But, like, you know what it is? It's very hard to even think about sex in any positive way while being in the brain space of this episode. It's just, just so disturbing that they're sending it to these girls that are. They think are 15 years old.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And it just reminds me of like to just have the confidence. The shred of a fraction of the confidence of a mediocre fucking sex offender.

[Julia Betavale]

Oh, oh.

[Patrick Hines]

100% to send a photo like that.

[Julia Betavale]

And these people are so sick. Part of what gets them off is just the sending of the photo. Of course, you know, it's so gross.

[Patrick Hines]

So Rue is here to say, like.

[Rue]

Most perpetrators go unpunished. And so they're not fearful of the law because they don't think anyone's, one, reporting it and two, able to find them.

[Patrick Hines]

People get away with this shit all the time. So that's why she and her team focus down to every minute detail because, like, they want to put a stop to that. If they're talking to Ru, as creepy as it is for Ru and as hard it is as it is for her, that's one less real child. They're not talking.

[Julia Betavale]

Well, because she's saying people aren't reporting it because. Not because they don't want to report it, because nobody takes it seriously. As we learn time and time and time again.

[Patrick Hines]

Or like, the kids are going to think, maybe I'm going to get in trouble if I tell my mom. It's just like a whole.

[Julia Betavale]

But then also, like these predators, most of them are really good at hiding their locations. It is hard to find. There are the idiots who just give you their. Their full name.

[Patrick Hines]

Hey, we're going to talk to both here. So Shelby, our social media lead is, you know, talks about the DMS between this creep and this Flory Persona. So, like, he starts off really nice, sends the photo, then very quickly asks Flory if she wants to meet in person. Now Florie immediately is like, I'm too young to drink, but, like, I can go grab a bite.

[Julia Betavale]

Now, remember, in real life, she's a 38 year old woman.

[Patrick Hines]

Exactly.

[Julia Betavale]

But her Persona is Flory.

[Patrick Hines]

So then the creep goes, all right. Then eating it is. Then he asks her, how old are you? She says, 15 hby, how about you? Yeah, they have to know the slang, like, things like that. You have to look because how many times have we said, you see a text, that person didn't write that.

[Julia Betavale]

Oh, totally.

[Patrick Hines]

Like they need to do that, you mean?

[Julia Betavale]

You know what I think about all the time? The one time I said Riz and you stopped dead in your touch of.

[Patrick Hines]

That Aaron, Somebody taught you that?

[Julia Betavale]

Probably Megan. I don't think Aaron knows Riz. I think it came from Megan.

[Patrick Hines]

Was Aaron.

[Julia Betavale]

Was it Aaron?

[Patrick Hines]

You said it was Aaron, but I was like, where'd you hear that?

[Julia Betavale]

Oh, God.

[Patrick Hines]

Who taught you that?

[Julia Betavale]

I Got some Riz.

[Patrick Hines]

You got Riz.

[Julia Betavale]

This episode drained all my Riz.

[Patrick Hines]

I know.

[Julia Betavale]

I feel. I feel so uncomfortable is not the right word because I'm happy to be talking about it.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

But I feel like, for lack of a better way of saying it, just totally fucking skeeved out.

[Patrick Hines]

As you should be.

[Julia Betavale]

Absolutely disgusting.

[Patrick Hines]

If you were like, I feel great after this. There's a problem.

[Julia Betavale]

Can you imagine?

[Patrick Hines]

So Flory, again, like, the Persona says 15. How about you? Now the creep goes, shoot, I was hoping you were 16 minimum.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Now the Persona, Flory, pushes and asks why? And the creep deflects and he's like, let's just get a date. He's asking because 16 is the age of consent in Connecticut, which is insane.

[Julia Betavale]

Which is way true.

[Shelby]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So this creep is making it very clear what he wants. He's local.

[Julia Betavale]

I think also he wants to get eyes on her as soon as possible for a number of reasons. But one of them is also to make sure that she's real.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julia Betavale]

That he's not A, being catfished or B, that she's not law enforcement. Like, I think a lot of these creeps go through a lot of people because they get. You know what I mean? Like, there's a lot of people out there fooling these guys.

[Patrick Hines]

And so Ru kind of explains how they do it.

[Shelby]

Yes.

[Rue]

So she says every adult that contacts one of our Personas is explicitly told from the outset that they're speaking to a 15 year old girl. And it takes our entire team to sustain that belief. Okay, I'm changing.

[Patrick Hines]

Explicitly told multiple times how old the.

[Julia Betavale]

Persona, that they're specifically underage.

[Patrick Hines]

So, like, the first thing Florey says back is, well, I'm too young to drink. That's number one.

[Shelby]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So, like, they make it clear in their 15 year old conversation or when they're asked outright, which all of these creeps do they tell them? They're not lying. They are telling. Or I mean, they're lying, but you know what I mean.

[Shelby]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, we see screenshots of people saying, like, I don't mind, honey. Age is just a number. Young girls make me happy. The younger the better. I'm 27. I'm just an. I'm just an older guy that's into younger girls. He says, like, making them put it in writing, right?

[Shelby]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Is the other part of it. So all of these screenshots when they hand it to law enforcement is like.

[Julia Betavale]

Here they are saying, and like, these Personas that they have made are very. Like, they have Everything. They know them from start to finish. It's like an acting exercise.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. And they all have bedrooms, like, so each Persona is the decoy. Right. And they have like three bedrooms in the house and each belongs to one of these decoys.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So the decoys are Nola, Alex, and Floribeth. Who's Florie?

[Shelby]

Yes.

[Julia Betavale]

So the point is wigs for days.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, the point is to make this as real as possible. So, like they're building their teenage lives, like hair, makeup, fake braces.

[Julia Betavale]

Oh, my God, the fake braces are crazy. Where they go to school, all their friends.

[Patrick Hines]

They have to sound like a teenager with their voice. They have to type like one.

[Rue]

We have spent time building what a teenager's life might be. So they have family and friends and hobbies. All right, let's go be 15. We have to create her community as well. So we're creating a background, a history where she goes to school. Does she take piano lessons? Authenticity is in details.

[Patrick Hines]

This girl is not just a TikTok queen.

[Rue]

This is crazy embarrassing.

[Patrick Hines]

So who are they in their downtime when no one else is watching them? A real 15 year old with like a real life.

[Shelby]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And how do you do that when you're a 38 year old mother of three? It's fascinating.

[Julia Betavale]

And it takes a whole team. Like, that's all these people who are like working in this house are all contributing to this, to this Persona.

[Patrick Hines]

And Avalon is the story developer.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God. She says authenticity is in the details. So like these 35 year old women are making TikTok videos as 15 year olds, like doing the dances, doing the trends and Ru's like, oh, this is so embarrassing.

[Julia Betavale]

But like, the rooms are really dark. Like whenever they get on the calls with the creeps, it's very dark in.

[Patrick Hines]

There because you're like hiding from your parents. Like, it just leans in into this fucking creepy shit.

[Julia Betavale]

So Flori, no one also looks their age anymore, you know what I mean? Like, nobody looks their age.

[Patrick Hines]

And the creeps get around the Photoshop. We'll get into it.

[Shelby]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So Flory, Florie, Beth, she's 15 years old. This is a Persona again. She's not real. Yeah, she's half Filipina, half white. Her mom is a nurse. She recently moved from Brooklyn to Connecticut. She's emotionally fragile. You know, she never really knew her dad. Just things that these guys love.

[Julia Betavale]

I mean, the fact that they know to put that detail in there, like for these Fucking daddy.

[Patrick Hines]

Right? We also meet Mat, who's the Visuals lead the photographer. The Photoshopper. And again, not photoshopping them to make them look good, to make them look 15.

[Julia Betavale]

Yeah. I love the Matt's. Like, in real life, I do fashion, beauty, lifestyle, tech, food. I'm like, matt, we get it, right? You're not a regular photographer, you're a cool photographer.

[Patrick Hines]

But he's using it, I know, for this, for the forces of good, crazy work. And he's like, it has to look believable. It just has to.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So the creep, this Kevin creep guy wants to video chat, which is a critical part of all of this, because these creeps are always nervous. They're talking to a decoy.

[Shelby]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So Kevin asks for video and it's like, go, go.

[Julia Betavale]

It's wild.

[Rue]

Shelby, I need my phone, so you need to post that now. Oh, I'm so sorry. Oh, run downstairs, get the photo of me and my mom.

[Patrick Hines]

Got it.

[Rue]

Perpetrators are always concerned they might be talking to law enforcement. Appearing on a video chat as a 15 year old Persona builds an essential level of trust and allows me the opportunity to gain information, to discover their identity.

[Patrick Hines]

Because even being like, oh, I can't right now, that would, like, raise a red flag for Kevin.

[Julia Betavale]

But like Flory Rue, like our, our main person who plays Flurry, she's got to get into character. She's got to get into wigs.

[Patrick Hines]

Those braces on the braces, she's putting.

[Julia Betavale]

On like one of those Britney Spears hit me baby one more time, like traveling school girl skirts.

[Patrick Hines]

And she's like, she's like yelling. She's like. Because it's like, all systems go. She's like, can you bring me that picture of me and my mom to make it look like there's like. She's like, comparatively, because there's a clock.

[Julia Betavale]

She'S got to respond in a minute or less to not, you know, make this guy get suspicious, think that she's.

[Patrick Hines]

Doing exactly what she's doing.

[Julia Betavale]

Exactly. And it's also like, as like, efficient as these men are at detecting the decoys. Like, nobody would ever think that anybody would go to this extent to trap them.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Julia Betavale]

You know, I fucking love it. But that's my only concern about this, is that, like, well, wait. Oh, they're. They're kind of giving up the secret.

[Patrick Hines]

And I don't know, like, when, how far after the conversation's happening that these episodes are out. Like, the production of a show like this is actually pretty fascinating. On top of the already fascinating things. It's like, how do you, like, you're blurring them, you're protecting them and why?

[Julia Betavale]

You know, like I thought that too.

[Patrick Hines]

Like.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So the. But the video chat builds trust.

[Julia Betavale]

Right?

[Patrick Hines]

And this helps the team find out more about the creep. So we can say with me, everyone get the son of a bitch.

[Julia Betavale]

And that's the point of all of this. They do all of this to gain the trust. Doing the video calls, doing the live that we'll learn about in a minute. They are in every conversation trying to get any detail. Anything. A region of the country, a previous job, how many kids they have, a.

[Patrick Hines]

Local restaurant, just like anywhere. Anything they can.

[Julia Betavale]

Fucking creeps are. So there's probably endless patience on Reddit or whatever, the dark web teaching them what to say and what not to say. They're so well ver. It's like these two experts going at each other.

[Patrick Hines]

But you also. They're the creeps are only. They know they're doing something wrong.

[Shelby]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

If you have to jump through all these hoops and see make sure she's at a decoy, then like you know what you're doing wrong.

[Julia Betavale]

This isn't robbing a bank, which is just wrong. This is immoral. This is. This is psycho. This is very sick behavior. Like it is so beyond like these. And we've talked about this all the time. These are really sick fucking people.

[Patrick Hines]

Sick.

[Julia Betavale]

You know, sick.

[Patrick Hines]

And rue like essentially. I mean she basically says she hates the video chats. Like because the creep is disgusting. The stakes are really high. Like the stakes are. It's the highest. The stakes are. But it's also the grossest thing for her to do.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

To not let it show on her face, in her voice, or show any uncomfortability at all. Anything more than what a 15 year old would be uncomfortable with. Which is what they fucking like to these creeps.

[Julia Betavale]

Right. They love the vulnerability.

[Patrick Hines]

Has to sort of toe the line of being like I'm allowed to be a little bit nervous. Which she is in real life. Ru. The 38 year old.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

But also like transferring it and expressing it in a way that's like believable for a 15 year old.

[Julia Betavale]

Right. Because what they risk, if a perpetrator.

[Rue]

Realizes I'm an adult, they might expose my account or disappear. If we lose them, we fear they'll move on to abuse an actual minor.

[Julia Betavale]

If one of these men figures out that they're a decoy, they can blow them up online and then all of that work is for nothing.

[Patrick Hines]

They're talking to a lot of people and they built these profiles. It's really hard to do that.

[Julia Betavale]

Yes.

[Rue]

Travel down the road.

[Julia Betavale]

Back again, girl. The cornbread THC seltzers are back. I gotta tell you, everybody is drinking less now. Everybody is switching to something else. And so many of our friends that come over for our happy hours, we are going through these THC seltzers like you can't even imagine.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, it tastes really good. It feels really good. Like it's perfect for the spring and summer months when you just want something refreshing.

[Julia Betavale]

It's also so much lower calorie, so get the this. It's 30 calories and 5 grams of sugar made with pure THC and all natural ingredients, no synthetics.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, I love it because I just, I don't have a hangover.

[Shelby]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

I just feel like it's a good buzz. It's like a healthy buzz. It feels nice. And each can has 5 milligrams of THC, which is like the perfect amount. So you're not feeling what they call like couch locked, where you don't feel paranoid, just feel good.

[Julia Betavale]

I cannot tell you how much my gays are loving it.

[Patrick Hines]

I know, it's so good. They have the blueberry breeze flavor, the peach iced tea, Raspberry lime made, salted watermelon. I love all of them.

[Julia Betavale]

And listen, if you're looking for an alcohol alternative, this is it, fam. I am telling you, I love it.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm switching over.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

So right now, TCO listeners can save 30% off their first order and enjoy free shipping on orders of over 75 bucks.

[Patrick Hines]

Head to cornbread hemp.com TCO and use code TCO at checkout.

[Julia Betavale]

That's cornbread hemp.com TCO code TCO.

[Patrick Hines]

Cornbread hemp. This is the good life.

[Julia Betavale]

It really is.

[Patrick Hines]

Let me tell you.

[Julia Betavale]

Salted watermelon.

[Patrick Hines]

It is. It's really good.

[Julia Betavale]

I. I know. It's so good.

[Patrick Hines]

I want now.

[Julia Betavale]

I know. Me too.

[Patrick Hines]

So two minutes before this video chat, the creep wants a live video, which is hard because you can't edit that.

[Julia Betavale]

Like when you take a picture in live and it's like it captures like.

[Patrick Hines]

The three seconds, if you hold it, it'll move. You can't edit those, right? So they're like, okay. So they have to make it look good.

[Julia Betavale]

Just as it's very dark, the way.

[Patrick Hines]

The hair is like the hat, the pose or whatever. But it's like, how would a 15 year old kind of get or like move in a certain way or whatever? So they send the line and the thing that's so barfy is that they just keep saying, like, we need to make the creep feel safe. Can I say I'm like, we need to make the creep fucking.

[Julia Betavale]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Be dead somehow.

[Julia Betavale]

Kevin, in my note here, it says, kevin asks for a live video. I said, jesus, the fact that these guys know what to ask for. Maybe ask for help.

[Patrick Hines]

Help.

[Julia Betavale]

You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Help.

[Julia Betavale]

Maybe go and talk to somebody about the fact your obsession with 15 year old girls.

[Patrick Hines]

I know, but also we've asked this many times. Then what?

[Julia Betavale]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Imagine you. Where do you walk into? I'm not defending them or like protecting them in any way. I'm just asking, like, where is the place where someone can go in and be like, I need help. I don't want to be this way. I know this is wrong. I know this is disgusting. I want to kill myself. I hate myself.

[Shelby]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

What do I do?

[Julia Betavale]

What do I do?

[Patrick Hines]

Like, where is the place for that?

[Julia Betavale]

And that conversation is had, people.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, there are like six SVU episodes.

[Julia Betavale]

About it and there's just no answer. It's like, you have to like, there are communities of pedophiles. I mean, according to the Internet fucking nambla. Yeah, but I mean, there are communities of pedophiles that try to live away from society to keep themselves away from doing harm.

[Patrick Hines]

And like a support group.

[Shelby]

Yes.

[Julia Betavale]

And sometimes it works and sometimes it, you know, I mean, it's. It's fucking horrible.

[Patrick Hines]

It's disgusting. And Matt are the photographer and the Photoshopper. He leaves the room before Rue is about to do this actual video. And she goes. And he goes, good luck. Be 15. Like, Matthew.

[Julia Betavale]

I know, I know, I know.

[Patrick Hines]

So the creep is late for this video chat and Rue hates this.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Because she's like, did he catch me? Like, does he know I'm not 15? Like, why is he not here?

[Shelby]

Yep.

[Patrick Hines]

Is he telling Reddit about us? Is he telling the dark web about us? Like, oh, my God, it's anxious. Like she's. It's making her really anxious.

[Shelby]

Y.

[Patrick Hines]

So Florie is texting him, Ru, like, as a 15 year old, she's like, where are you? And when he responds, he goes, how old are you, really? And she's like, fuck, yeah. And she responds like, I'm 15. Why? And he kind of turns it around and says the barfiest thing. Well, you're way too sexy for 15. And I'm like, I need a shower. I'm gonna throw out. Meanwhile, Ru's like, oh, thank God he buys it.

[Julia Betavale]

I know.

[Shelby]

Yeah, yeah, I know.

[Patrick Hines]

And I'm like, this is. It's just such an. It's an incredible thing to do, but it must be so trying.

[Julia Betavale]

I.

[Patrick Hines]

It must be so hard for her to do.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

Like, how do you. You know, Audra McDonald talks about leaving Rose at the theater. You know what I mean? How does, like, Rue leave Flory at the house?

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Julia Betavale]

You know, is that the gayest analogy I ever made?

[Patrick Hines]

No, it's true, though. But also, Audra left the Tony stage in character.

[Julia Betavale]

Oh.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

So, yeah, true. I mean, it's like, what do you. How does Flory. We're gonna learn that she's got three amazing kids at home that she loves. How do you go home and, you know, wash this? I mean, it's so awful.

[Patrick Hines]

And not be, like, obsessively paranoid and let your kids still be kids knowing what's behind this horrible curtain. Like, how do you just live, too? Right?

[Julia Betavale]

Well, now we meet Detective Mark Suda. He's a Norwalk Police department police officer. He's a SOSA consultant, and he tells us. I've been involved in all kinds of local, state, and federal task forces. I'm an investigator in a special services unit, and my unit investigates narcotics, gangs, and vice. So we deal with a lot of human trafficking, prostitution cases. The way these guys go after some of these kids and the predator end of it, it's unfortunate for a lot of families, but that's our job and that's what we're here for, to take these guys off the street. He deals with sex trafficking, sex work. Like, that's why he's here.

[Patrick Hines]

Right? And now also, this video call doesn't happen.

[Julia Betavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

But the creep sends Flory a dick pic and they're thrilled. Cuz he just committed a crime because he sent a sexually explicit photo to someone he thinks is a minor.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And I'm like, right, but could. Isn't there a loophole where, like, could he get out of it?

[Julia Betavale]

Because she's not actually a minor.

[Patrick Hines]

And I was like, well, I guess it's about the intent.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And regardless, it means he's probably done this before.

[Shelby]

Absolutely.

[Patrick Hines]

Which is the point. Like, so Rue only doing this to set up the case for the cops. Like, Rue can't go in and get the son of a bitch, but she needs to do everything she can to be like, see, probably doing this.

[Julia Betavale]

These old men actually believe that these young girls want these pictures.

[Patrick Hines]

I know, I know. So Detective Mark is like, this guy's a seasoned predator. So the point is, like, if they can get the guys to do this to Rue, that is enough to get the search warrant. And then I'm sure he's doing it to multiple other girls.

[Julia Betavale]

Like that's exactly, exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

So they need to idea this guy so they can make moves like nothing can happen if they don't know who he is.

[Julia Betavale]

They don't know who he is. They don't know where he is, but.

[Patrick Hines]

He'S acting like he's local right.

[Julia Betavale]

To where they are.

[Patrick Hines]

And once they ID him, they can get a search warrant and search the house and get the computers. So like the whole every single word out of Ru's mouth is hopefully getting him one step closer to give something valuable.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

To ID him.

[Julia Betavale]

The next day, Shelby, the one who runs social media, she comes in.

[Patrick Hines]

I came in today and I had 50 chat requests. It can be tricky when someone's asking you rapid fire questions, trying to figure out if you're real or not. And they want to know, like, how much do you weigh? How tall are you? Where do you actually, what's your sign? When were you born? What's your birthday?

[Julia Betavale]

Over 50 chat requests.

[Patrick Hines]

That's insane.

[Julia Betavale]

Her 15 year old Persona has over 50 chat requests from older disgusting men.

[Patrick Hines]

Disgusting. And like that's. And this is where she's saying, that's.

[Julia Betavale]

The, that's the note where I had that. That right there is enough to make me go back to bed forever.

[Patrick Hines]

I know. Good night.

[Julia Betavale]

50.

[Shelby]

50.

[Patrick Hines]

I know, I know. It's disgusting. And that's why they're like, well, we don't need to reach out to these people.

[Julia Betavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

One, it's like not good for the case. But like it's, it's not like they're sitting around like they are busy.

[Julia Betavale]

More predators than they even know what to do with.

[Patrick Hines]

And she's saying like, she says all of the. Shelby, the social media expert, is like, all of these guys are instantly trying to see if you're actually 14 or not. Like, they start the conversation asking like, your height, your weight, where do you live, where are you from, what's your sign, what's your birthday? Like they're, they're kind of grilling you right away.

[Julia Betavale]

Oh my God.

[Patrick Hines]

So like that's why you have to have a fully formed Persona going in. You can't just like make it up on the fly because they can catch, they know how to catch you.

[Julia Betavale]

And it's just like, I know this goes without saying, but it just shows you that they know how wrong this is. It just shows you that they know how fucked up this is.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, they know they're doing something wrong.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So suddenly, remember the creep? Like, they were gonna do a video chat, and then it didn't happen. And so now he wants to do a video call, and it's like, go, go, go. Once again, we're running because we're in.

[Julia Betavale]

The middle of an interview with Shelby, and all of a sudden he wants a video chat.

[Patrick Hines]

And the camera's down, and it's like. We're like. But it's 4am yeah. And Ru is, quote, dressed as herself. So she's like, not in teen clothes. Not the teen.

[Julia Betavale]

This is a Broadway quick change if ever you've seen one.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, yeah. So we're for the call. And she's like, what if he wants a tour of my bedroom? Like, they're not equipped for that in this moment. Like, he might ask for that. He might ask, like, show me something. Like, to prove that you're actually 14.

[Julia Betavale]

And once again, the only reason they're doing this much, they're putting this much.

[Rue]

Effort in our job, is to take the little information an ACM gives us and turn it into an identity to.

[Julia Betavale]

Get information out of him so they can find out who he is.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. Because if he's doing a video call with her right now, he's not doing it with an actual 14 year old. And that's a win of itself, as creepy as that is.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So she gets an outfit together. She throws in a baseball cap, turns the lights off, throws in the braces.

[Julia Betavale]

Off, off with like.

[Patrick Hines]

Like fluorescent, you know, like string lights or whatever. The baseball cap. And it's 4am so she can kind of, like, huddle and have to be quiet.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So the timeline and these creeps work so fast. Three days ago, the creep reaches out to, quote Flory, the Persona. Flory says she's 15 years old. He's bummed she's not 16, but whatever. He immediately sends her dick pics and underwear pics, and now they're FaceTiming. This happened almost overnight.

[Shelby]

Y.

[Patrick Hines]

So they call these creeps ACMs adult contacting them minor. So that when you hear that, that's what that means.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And these creeps, not only do they want to prove that you're actually a teenager, but they don't want to say too much about themselves. So they can ask you a bunch of questions, and then if you don't answer, they're suspicious. But they don't want to answer too many questions either.

[Julia Betavale]

Right. And they know what not to ask. They know what to ask you.

[Patrick Hines]

You know, it's not A coincidence. I'm wearing my Hex the Patriarchy shirt today.

[Julia Betavale]

Yeah, they're all very well versed in this. And like the forums online that must exist to tell them a play by play of what to do and what not to do.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. So here's, there's like in these conversations because it's the first like real face to face they've had.

[Julia Betavale]

And we hear it and his voice is distorted and it just adds another level of fudgeing creep to this whole thing.

[Patrick Hines]

It feels like someone caught like the calls coming from inside.

[Julia Betavale]

100%.

[Patrick Hines]

So he says he went to the Citadel, which is a. The military college of South Carolina.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And he ended up being a lieutenant in the army. And again with these guys, like, is it real? Is it not? Is he trying to impress her? We don't know. We're like jotting all this down. Right. He commanded an armored platoon in the invasion of Iraq. He's got. He. Then he gets into the car business. He did that for 15 years. He was in the car business longer than Flori has been alive. And he thinks that's hot. But that's okay.

[Julia Betavale]

She does get him talking about his kids.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, he has kids.

[Julia Betavale]

I know.

[Rue]

Do you have any sons?

[Patrick Hines]

I do.

[Rue]

Do you have any daughters?

[Patrick Hines]

I do.

[Julia Betavale]

I have 20 daughters.

[Rue]

So you have four kids?

[Patrick Hines]

Yes, I do.

[Rue]

How many wives have you had?

[Julia Betavale]

You have a square. How many wives have you had? And he says to the 15 year old, you would be number three.

[Patrick Hines]

Disgusting.

[Julia Betavale]

Disgusting.

[Patrick Hines]

So they talk about meeting up. The call ends. This motion is stunning. Rue rips off the floor. Persona so fat. She's. They're barely hung up. And she's like, it's all, it's. She wants to rip it off of her skin and I don't blame her. But like she has her head in her hands and like she feels like she nailed it, but she's like, that's like she's sweating. Yeah. It's so intense. Cuz any minute he's going to be like, you're faking it.

[Julia Betavale]

Right?

[Patrick Hines]

And so I'm like, girl, get in the shower, get comfy clothes on.

[Julia Betavale]

Whatever you need to do.

[Patrick Hines]

Pizza. Get that. Whatever you want to do.

[Rue]

Travel down the road.

[Julia Betavale]

Back again, girl. Zebiotics, pre alcohol. Probiotic is backed. We are obsessed.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. So here's the thing. I always like to say. We are like not canceling the next day anymore cuz we've been drinking.

[Julia Betavale]

Oh my God.

[Patrick Hines]

Everyone has stuff to do.

[Julia Betavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So like Mike and I always have this when we have like A date night where we're going to a restaurant.

[Shelby]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

I'll walk out and in the kitchen, there'll just be two of them on the counter. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just in case we have, like, too many glasses of wine or one too many cosmos. Like, our. Our next days are valuable.

[Julia Betavale]

Totally. And, like, this is great whether you're having, like one drink tonight or two with your friends or a little bit more than that. You know what I mean? Like, it's good in any situation.

[Patrick Hines]

So Zbiotics pre alcohol probiotic drink is the world's first genetically engineered probiotic.

[Shelby]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

It was invented by PhD scientists to tackle through rough mornings after drinking.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

Because here's what happens when you drink. Alcoh gets converted into a toxic byproduct in the gut. So it's this buildup of this byproduct, not dehydration, that's to blame for your rough days after drinking.

[Patrick Hines]

Pre alcohol produces an enzyme to break this byproduct down. So just remember to take pre alcohol, your first drink of the night. Drink responsibly, and you'll feel your best tomorrow.

[Julia Betavale]

I mean, that's like, better advice. I've never heard. So fam. Summertime is here, which means more opportunities to celebrate with warmer weather.

[Patrick Hines]

Before that Chardonnay on the porch, glass of watching the sunset at the beach, or a seltzer by the campfire. Don't forget your zest. Zbiotics Pre alcohol Drink one before drinking.

[Julia Betavale]

And wake up feeling great and ready to take on the next day and all that summer has to offer.

[Patrick Hines]

Go to zebiotics.com tco to learn more and get 15% off your first order when you use TCO at checkout.

[Julia Betavale]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Betavale]

Thank you, Zbiotics, for sponsoring this episode and for the the good times. Go, girl. Rocket Money is back, fam. As you know, Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps you find and cancel unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps you lower your bills so you can grow your savings. Who doesn't want that?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. So my favorite thing about Rocket Money, as I say all the time, it's the dashboard.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So it shows you all of your expenses in one place, including subscriptions you forgot about.

[Julia Betavale]

Oh, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So you can see, like, wait, what Is that, is it worth it for me? Do I like it? Or if you're just like, I don't even know. I have have that. I don't want it. Rocket Money will help you cancel it.

[Julia Betavale]

They will go through all of your subscriptions. Once you link your account, they will tell you what you have. They will help you cancel it. I also made a donate, like a charitable donation the other week and they emailed me to ask me if that was real.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Julia Betavale]

Like, Rocket Money's got your back.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And I love that you can see like your whole financial picture, including bill due dates, including paydays. It's so easy to digest. It's like, it's not scary. It doesn't feel overwhelming. You can see it all in one place and be like, oh, that's where I need to cut back. That's where I'm good.

[Julia Betavale]

And if you don't like talking to people, Rocket Money will even try to negotiate to work lower the bills for you. So the app automatically scans your bills to find opportunities to save and then goes to work to get you a better deal. They'll even deal with customer service so you don't have to imagine I went through this with one of the gyms I was trying to cancel.

[Patrick Hines]

This really happened worst at the gym.

[Julia Betavale]

But then the gym called me because Rocket Money made them do it. They didn't want to. They called me to make sure I wanted to cancel.

[Patrick Hines]

That's when you ignore.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

But I took the call and I was like, thank you, Rocket Money. It was Perfect.

[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Betavale]

I've saved so much money, free money.

[Patrick Hines]

As far as I'm concerned.

[Julia Betavale]

Truly. So, fam. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money.

[Patrick Hines]

Go to RocketMoney.com obsessed today.

[Julia Betavale]

That's RocketMoney.com obsessed.

[Patrick Hines]

RocketMoney.com obsessed. Which we are.

[Julia Betavale]

Which we are.

[Patrick Hines]

So the team is like trying to ID this crate. But of course, like, things aren't fully adding up. Can you believe, like, some of it might be true, but most of it probably isn't. We don't know.

[Julia Betavale]

And somebody's gonna tell us at some point that these guys are really good at giving information. They can't either be fact checked or can't be connected to each other.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. And like, they're trying to, like all these Little facts that he peppers in, like how long he's owned his house. Like, maybe that's a real thing. That's a weird thing to lie about. So, like he's owned 19 car dealerships. He's talking about how many trees he's planted.

[Julia Betavale]

Right?

[Patrick Hines]

And you're like, okay.

[Julia Betavale]

And it is just kind of like. But you guys, like, if you've created all these Personas, don't you think maybe they have two?

[Patrick Hines]

Maybe, you know, I don't know, but they have like.

[Julia Betavale]

But that's what the creeps are thinking. Like, well, maybe they're law enforcement. Probably not, but I'm gonna guess the.

[Patrick Hines]

Creeps don't have a whiteboard.

[Julia Betavale]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

In a warhouse war room and Google Docs and all these experts.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So in the middle, this is so gross. In the middle of this, like, this is how hard the world work is, like, emotionally and physically for Rue. Cuz in the middle of them trying to piece together, like, why is he talking about planting trees? 19 car dealerships.

[Julia Betavale]

Like, what?

[Patrick Hines]

He asks for feet pictures. Oh.

[Rue]

One of the most challenging parts of what we do is submitting to a perpetrator's demands. But in order to get Kevin on another call, we decide to comply.

[Julia Betavale]

Does it need any retouching?

[Rue]

I don't know. Does it?

[Julia Betavale]

Not really. Those look like 15 year old feet.

[Patrick Hines]

Honestly, I was thinking, what if he asks for something else?

[Julia Betavale]

Right?

[Patrick Hines]

And we don't get into that? At least not in this episode.

[Julia Betavale]

Oh, my God, that's.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, but my first thought was like, is he starting? What if, like, how do you get around that?

[Julia Betavale]

I mean, maybe you just say like, not yet, I'm not ready for that yet, or whatever.

[Patrick Hines]

Or. But he'll see, like, because you're like, maybe or.

[Julia Betavale]

Well, that's a good question. If we do get an interview with them.

[Patrick Hines]

Or is the goal to get an ID on them before that even happens? Is that why these things are moving so fast?

[Julia Betavale]

Right. Because he's got to be weighing when he can ask for that without scaring her off.

[Patrick Hines]

Right? That's true. Scaring off the 15 year old.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

But still, like, I wonder for the sake of getting their information, like, what happens?

[Julia Betavale]

Even the feed picture is very intimate. It's a very intimate. Disgusting.

[Patrick Hines]

But for her, she's like, thank God that's all he wants. I know, like, that's the easiest part of her job. She's not doing a video chat. She's not doing like, I can see if she's like, oh, that's nothing.

[Julia Betavale]

Even The Photoshop guys, like, they don't need it. They're great.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, they look like your feet are great by. So they're video calling again.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And so, like, Rue Flory, this Persona is asking him more questions. And she's trying to get him to say if he's local or not.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Because he's like, oh, how do you like Stanford? Whatever? And she's like, oh, do you live downtown? Like, could you walk to Main Street?

[Julia Betavale]

And I think that he's starting to get a sense of that. She's asking a lot of questions.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. And so, like, we've kind of hit a wall with this creep.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And now a new creep has entered the chair.

[Julia Betavale]

Mitch.

[Patrick Hines]

Mitch. Creep number two. He's claiming to be 50, and all the women are like, he looks at least 60. Like, what the fuck? And guess what, everyone?

[Rue]

What's interesting is that his display name seems to be a first name and the last name. So I am going to look it up and see if I can actually find him. It is not a fake name. I have an address and a landline.

[Patrick Hines]

This idiot uses his full, real name on his account.

[Julia Betavale]

First name and last name. They're like, there's no way this can be real. Let us give it a quick Google. Nope, it's him.

[Patrick Hines]

They have his full name, his full address, and his landline.

[Julia Betavale]

Like, what an idiot.

[Patrick Hines]

Stay stupid, everyone. Keep it coming.

[Julia Betavale]

Stay stupid.

[Patrick Hines]

So this guy's, like, texting her and, like, they use this as an example of what Ru calls the white knight tactic.

[Shelby]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Because he, like, with like, all the audacity in the world, is like, be careful of talking to people online, little one. Like, I'm the safe one.

[Julia Betavale]

I'm totally safe.

[Patrick Hines]

But, like, there are a lot of creeps out there. I'm like, you are the creep creep.

[Julia Betavale]

I will take your feet pics right now. But I'm the safe one.

[Patrick Hines]

The bizarro. The bizarro version of the craft. We are the weirdos, mister. Like, you are the creep creep.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

And it's so obvious, you know, Right?

[Patrick Hines]

Like, don't just, I'm a nice guy.

[Julia Betavale]

Right. And they're just saying, like, that's how they get the teenage. Like, that's how these creeps get the teenagers to trust them.

[Patrick Hines]

Right? So he. I'm not going to say this. No exchange about how he's being sexually explicit with a teenager. I mean, immediately it is.

[Julia Betavale]

He's talking about them having sex and.

[Patrick Hines]

Her having sex for the first time.

[Julia Betavale]

It is absolutely. I couldn't even write it down. I couldn't take notes on it, so.

[Patrick Hines]

I have my notes. I just have. Jesus Christ.

[Julia Betavale]

I know.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So creep number two, Mitch, sends naked photos to Flori, who. Who he knows is 15.

[Shelby]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And I'm like, can we get him now? We know where he lives.

[Julia Betavale]

Truly.

[Patrick Hines]

Can we get him now?

[Julia Betavale]

100%?

[Patrick Hines]

Actually, yes. We have everything we need to get.

[Julia Betavale]

This creep, and we'll get him in a minute. But now we're back with Rue, who.

[Patrick Hines]

Now we were with creep number one. Quote Kevin. Yeah, not his real name. Kevin sends a really disturbing request to Flory that she doesn't really know how to handle just yet because he wants to meet her at a motel 15 minutes away.

[Julia Betavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

And he's telling her what to wear. Like, I'll be there with my bag of tricks, which is all, like, sex stuff.

[Julia Betavale]

I mean, like, really over the top sex toys is what he's talking about.

[Patrick Hines]

And what he wants her to use on him.

[Julia Betavale]

Oh, my God. So they say again, by the way, we've made it abundantly clear that she is 15.

[Patrick Hines]

This is the guy who was disappointed she wasn't 16, because that's the age of consent in Connecticut. Connecticut. Get your act together.

[Julia Betavale]

And then, like, Rue is going to go and meet this guy.

[Rue]

We can't hand over evidence to law enforcement until we have a positive id, a name and an address. We do this with one goal in mind, and in this case with Kevin. The goal is not to make an arrest tonight. The goal is to get an ID.

[Julia Betavale]

On him now before we see the cop that's, like, their consultant getting the cop with her. I was like, where are you going?

[Patrick Hines]

Right?

[Julia Betavale]

Like, you can't. Like, you are not allowed. You can't go do this. But the cop is going to take her to go meet this guy at the hotel.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, because the goal for tonight is not an arrest. It's to, like, get his license plate number and run it.

[Shelby]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So it kind of doesn't matter if their cover is blown alone, necessarily. If they can get a plate.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

If they can get an id, who gives a shit?

[Julia Betavale]

I just, like, I'm seeing the horror movie version where she's quick, somehow trapped alone in a room, you know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Which would never happen. She would just be like, oh, my mom called me. Like, you know.

[Julia Betavale]

Right.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So Mark the cop, the consultant is going to be there posing as, like, an Uber driver, rideshare driver. So Rue actually has to go and meet this guy. And she's like, well, the good news is that I Don't have to act nervous because I'm already nervous.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So acting like a nervous 15 year old won't be that much of a stretch.

[Julia Betavale]

And like, is the plan that she's actually going to go into the hotel room with him and like be alone with him?

[Patrick Hines]

They want to find his car, they to want, want to get his plates. That's.

[Julia Betavale]

What if he's already in the hotel room? I mean, they know the make and model of his car at least they what he's told them it is, I guess.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

They have to hope there's not a bunch of them in the parking lot.

[Patrick Hines]

That's what they're there for. So it's Saturday 6 at 6:30, one week after our first contact. This happens so fast. So Rue is supposed to meet the creep at the motel. Mark, the cop is circling the parking lot looking for this car. I'm like, dude, you're an Uber driver, Remember? Pretend to be an Uber driver. So the creep texts Rue and he changes the plan last minute.

[Julia Betavale]

Well, because they're kind of like, where is this guy? And like now this is where you see the level of sophistication that this predator has. The predator has gotten Rue to the location he initially said, but now he's miles away.

[Patrick Hines]

Or if he's anywhere at all.

[Julia Betavale]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

If he's in Connecticut at all. If he's even in the state.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So the plan was to meet at a motel for sex stuff, right?

[Rue]

Oh my God, stop. He just said that he wants to meet up at 7. He said, yeah, we're going to have dinner, then I'll bring you home. And I said, I can always Uber home too. I'm going to Uber there, but I am going to be hungry. He said, I'll take you home. No sex, free. Just food. And I wonder if that's to imply that like he's not gonna have sex with a minor. That's like covering his tracks.

[Patrick Hines]

He's covering his tracks.

[Julia Betavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

So the restaurant is downtown in a very busy area. So it'll make surveillance really tough if this guy is telling the truth.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

And we see her getting out of the car in front of the restaurant. She's like going in, I guess, like she's wearing a wire. Like we see the inside of the restaurant and then the cop is like sitting in the car. I'm, I'm very nervous. I'm just sitting there, nervous for everybody.

[Patrick Hines]

And so like she goes outside, she thinks she sees him. There are just too many cars and too many for anyone to get Any eyes on him?

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And then suddenly he's like, I'm not here anymore. Like, he's just gone. And this is. The sting is over, like, instantly.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And so Rue is like this. Oh, this was a test, right.

[Julia Betavale]

Like, she thinks that she sees somebody that matches his description watching her walk into the restaurant. So he's in Rue's mind. He's trying to get eyes on her without her getting eyes on him.

[Patrick Hines]

And then he texts her, and he's like, oh, like, silly me. I went to the restaurant's other location. So either this is a test or this guy's an idiot. Honestly, it could go either way. But it was a yes because he wanted to, like, watch her walk in, even whether he was watching her or not, like, he was never going to meet her.

[Julia Betavale]

Right. Which is just, like. It is so much work on his end to not be meeting her.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Julia Betavale]

You know, to, like. It's the ultimate catfish.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. Or you could just, like, not be sick and meet someone your age.

[Julia Betavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, but then again, if that's really who he. I just don't understand, like. Well, would you be able to have any kind of healthy relationship if this is what you want?

[Julia Betavale]

No, Absolutely. Absolutely not. But, like, my thing with him is, like, I'm still thinking there's a chance they're gonna get him. I'm still thinking there's a chance they're gonna meet or something, like. Because Rue is not giving up. She's like, all right, it didn't happen tonight, but we're gonna get this guy.

[Patrick Hines]

But tonight she's exhausted. She wants to go home and see her kids.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

She's, like, had it. It's been a long week.

[Julia Betavale]

We see her on the phone with her kids at work, and I. I could recognize the tone in everybody's. It's that, oh, my God, why aren't you home? I miss you tone. And it was so sad to me, and, like. Like, she's doing this for her kids, but it's taking her away from her kids. It's also a really sad line of work to be in.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And I think what happens is, like, someone will reach out and they have a target, and then she'll work for a week and then be home for a long time. That's what I'm. Because these things are moving fast.

[Julia Betavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

And so she wants to be home. She doesn't want to be fucking 15. She wants to be their mother. She wants to be ru. But she has to stay at the house in case Kevin reaches out. So Then between she starts like really explaining why she's doing this and why she started Sosa.

[Julia Betavale]

And it was so as a parent, it was just really eye opening to me. She said like, like she, she says it visually, which really made me understand it.

[Rue]

She said, I think the reason why it means so much to me is because it can happen so quietly and sneakily. A child can be alone in her room and parents can be downstairs and someone in a house seven stinks away could be sexually abusing her via her phone.

[Julia Betavale]

Being sexually abused by a man seven states away and she just doesn't even know it.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And she says the Internet is unchartered territory. Every kid needs someone in their corner. And like, it's never the victim's fault, obviously. And she says like, it has such long lasting effects that she like. Survivors have reached out to Rue to make videos, asking Rue to act like, can you just tell me like as a mom that it's not her fault?

[Julia Betavale]

Yeah. Because she said this whole thing started online, that initially she made videos to say to survivors of online sexual abuse, it's not your fault. Just so you know, victims are never at fault here. And the comments she said were heartbreaking. She said the comments were things like, I could have used you when I was a teen. Nobody told me this in school. I've dealt with the shame of this since I was 13. I thought because it was online that it wasn't real. And, and Rue realized the impact that her work was having. And then that she says the biggest thing these survivors wanted was for Rue to like cosplay as their parents.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

And look them in the, in the video, in the camera and say, like, it wasn't your fault.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, talk to their 13 year old self and like forgive them for something they didn't do wrong.

[Julia Betavale]

I know. And I mean, you know, the Internet for anybody with a kid is absolutely fucking terrifying.

[Patrick Hines]

It's terrifying. Rue is trying to save us all.

[Shelby]

Yes.

[Rue]

Travel down the road.

[Julia Betavale]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Shelby]

Yeah. So fam.

[Julia Betavale]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Betavale]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Betavale]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Betavale]

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[Patrick Hines]

Those hydration mixes have been so helpful.

[Julia Betavale]

Because they're so tasty. There's almost no calories. It's like the. You know you're supposed to drink a bunch of water when you first wake up. Who wants to do that?

[Patrick Hines]

Especially, especially like now it's a safety issue. You gotta stay hydrated. I'm like, pass me the hydration please.

[Julia Betavale]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, but keep up those hydration mixes.

[Julia Betavale]

Yeah, keep them up you while you're at it.

[Shelby]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So back to Mitch creep number two, this idiot who's using all of his real information and they know exactly who he is. Keep it up, Mitch. Not your real name Mitch. Right, Who I found, by the way.

[Julia Betavale]

You did?

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So he keeps messaging flory, the 15 year old Persona.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And like they're going to continue this conversation to just get more evidence against this guy. They're like, if he's giving it. Exactly, because he's not asking. Like, like the first guy is very well aware that, like, she could really be a plant or a decoy or whatever.

[Julia Betavale]

Mitch does not seem to know that.

[Patrick Hines]

That'S a talking and talking and talking. And they're like, okay. And it's getting to the point where they're just asking him to incriminate himself even more. 100%. Something that a 15 year old would never ask, which is what Florie asked. She goes, why do you like teens? Not even teenager. Shelby's like, fuck it.

[Julia Betavale]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Type how you want to type. Who cares? We can all use a night off.

[Julia Betavale]

Wouldn't it be weird if I was an undercover cop?

[Patrick Hines]

Like what would you do if I was a 38 year old mother of three named Rue? Like that. And he's like, well, most of the women my age are out of shape and. And not attractive. Says Mitch.

[Julia Betavale]

I was like, I would give anything to see a picture of fucking Mitch.

[Patrick Hines]

Right? She goes, have you hooked up with teens before? Not a single 15 year old. They're like, girl as they're like shoving pizza down their throat. They're like, this guy doesn't even want a video. Let's just do all text. Like, we're good. Easiest night of work ever. So Mitch admits that he had sex with a girl who was 16 and a half years old, but I gave her $50 because she was really poor. I don't want to discount if this is a real story, but I cannot believe a word these guys say because he might be saying it to her to make her feel comfortable with him. I don't know.

[Julia Betavale]

But then we get the bombshell. We learn he works at a school.

[Patrick Hines]

He goes, all the teenagers I work with are underage. Where do you work? I work at a school.

[Julia Betavale]

At a fucking school.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God. And again, I want to be clear, I'm not discounting what he did. I'm sure he's an actual abuser and it's transferred from online into real life. I know that. I'm just saying, like, I've learned that they'll lie to you too.

[Julia Betavale]

Oh, right. Of course.

[Patrick Hines]

Watching this. You know what I mean? Like, yes, but like, let's get the son of a bitch. So now we're back to Kevin creep number one. Yeah, he wants another phone call, but.

[Julia Betavale]

An audio only call.

[Patrick Hines]

And so Ru is like, okay, I'm kind of relieved, but also, why, like, is he on to us? What's going on here? So we hear the phone call. Kevin is drinking chardonnay, which is.

[Julia Betavale]

I mean, don't take it away from me. I know you hate it. I know this proves a certain kind of point.

[Patrick Hines]

No, it does not know. But I'm just like, so this. If this wasn't.

[Julia Betavale]

God damn it. I've never wanted a glass of chardonnay more in my life. God can taste it in my mouth right now.

[Patrick Hines]

It's 90 degrees outside.

[Julia Betavale]

No, but this is the worst thing we've ever had to talk about.

[Patrick Hines]

It's horrible, but I'm saying it's still going to be warm. No, it's 90 degrees outside. Keep it in the freezer. So if this. This edit is hilarious, even though it's disgusting, because, Ru, they're like on this audio only call. And so Rue's like, all I did, I let him do what he likes to do most, which is talking about himself. So here are some of the things we get because it's just editing, like out of context. And out of context. I ran a seven minute mile in the Denver marathon. I have a friend who has every iPhone that's ever been produced. I'm like, as John Oliver would say, cool.

[Julia Betavale]

Cool.

[Patrick Hines]

My friend owns a hotel on the island of Malta and I can stay there for free whenever I want. This winter, I gained 10 pounds. I love Southern California. I tore three ligaments in my left ankle. I was playing volleyball and was distracted by the breasts of the woman who was playing your bike.

[Julia Betavale]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

You don't follow racing, do you? And I'm like. And Ru is literally like yawning.

[Julia Betavale]

I know she's having a miserable time.

[Patrick Hines]

But out of all of, of this drivel.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

We actually might have gotten some valuable information.

[Julia Betavale]

Yeah. Probably not, but maybe, maybe years ago.

[Rue]

He sponsored a car show. We're hoping this is the lead we've been waiting for.

[Patrick Hines]

If they shut the street down, that's probably in some local paper. Yes, that's what I'm looking for. Now this guy like sponsored a car show because Remember he has 19 car dealerships and he said they shut down an entire street for. So they're like, maybe that would be in the paper, which, I don't know.

[Julia Betavale]

They think this is the scoop of the century. They're like, we're going to get him. If they had to shut down the city for his car show, then it'll be. I was like, what are you talking about?

[Patrick Hines]

Well, if you're shutting a street down, like, that would be written somewhere.

[Julia Betavale]

What, like in the, in the newspaper?

[Patrick Hines]

Maybe not in the newspaper. I'll tell you. So I have like, I follow an account that's like notify NYC so it'll tell us like, I got it with Fiona. If they're going to be like fireworks. Like, I just want to know if she needs her mask medicine or whatever. So I have alerts on for it. They will tell you the most. You think mundane things.

[Shelby]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Based on like, well, that makes sense. Street closures or whatever.

[Julia Betavale]

Like they were like looking for like in like the New York Times report about this guy's car show.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, I guess they just thought it would be. There'd be documentation somewhere and if they can get the time and the date and the location, maybe they could see like, okay, well who sponsored it and go that way.

[Julia Betavale]

Like, to me, the least believable thing in that phone call was the seven minute mile in Denver.

[Patrick Hines]

Give me a break.

[Julia Betavale]

Like, Denver's the hardest city in the world to run.

[Patrick Hines]

My friend owns a hotel on the island of this winter. I gained 10 pounds. Like, girl, shut up.

[Julia Betavale]

It's like, kevin, please. But this comes to nothing. They don't find any information about this.

[Patrick Hines]

Guy based on that information because Kelly, the research lead, is like, it's so frustrating because they have so much information, but they can't connect it together. And they're saying, we have so much information, why can't we connect it all? But I think that is truly very intentional on his part. He's choosing pieces of. Of information that don't have a connection.

[Julia Betavale]

He knows how to not give her what she's. I mean, at this point, it is possible that he knows that she's, like, working with law enforcement and is just fucking with her.

[Patrick Hines]

But I think he's also living out this fantasy where he has friends who own islands and they, you know, it's just all bullshit.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

He's making it up as he goes along more than they are.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

But everyone is exhausted by this. We all hate Kevin. Kevin can actually go fuck himself.

[Julia Betavale]

Kevin can actually go fuck himself.

[Patrick Hines]

Literally.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So now back to idiot Mitch creep number two, who's digging himself deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper.

[Julia Betavale]

He's just saying to this 15 year old girl, I just got my first COVID vaccine shot. I need one more shot before you and I can start making out.

[Patrick Hines]

First of all, okay. I know I get in trouble for saying this, but okay, Boomer. He goes, I just got my first shot of COVID He needs a vaccine.

[Julia Betavale]

I know, I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Or he's like, where were you on January six? Kind of guy. Being like, you think you're. You're just like giving us Covid.

[Julia Betavale]

Right, right, right.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, I got the jab or whatever they say. Disgusting.

[Julia Betavale]

The worst.

[Patrick Hines]

So now he's like texting very, very, very sexually explicit things. He's calling her a woman. She's not a woman.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

This man works at a school, by the way. When I'm reading this, the only thing I could think at a school.

[Julia Betavale]

Well, they get him, thank God. And he's charged with attempted transfer of obscene materials to a minor, attempted receipt of child pornography, which we don't call it that anymore, but legally, that's what it's still called, an attempted enticement of a minor to engage in illegal sexual activity. And I'm like, okay, great, can we just get this guy off the fudgeing street? Can we just get him in prison?

[Patrick Hines]

He's. We're blurring the photo and I'm like, one, why are we protecting Mitch? And what is the point of even putting a photo on half the screen if you're just going to blur it?

[Julia Betavale]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

Production. I'm just curious about that. But we got. Not his real name, Mitch. He's 64 years old. He was a food worker at the school. So, like, serving kids kids food, I guess. I found him.

[Julia Betavale]

You did?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

Who is he?

[Patrick Hines]

His. Should I. Doc, should I say his name?

[Julia Betavale]

I mean, yeah, he's a convicted sex criminal.

[Patrick Hines]

His name is Michael Nastu. He only got 18 months.

[Julia Betavale]

Oh, my God. We are told that the accumulation of all of these charges could end him up in life in prison.

[Patrick Hines]

Yep, he got 18 months of imprisonment, followed by three years of supervised release for a child exploitation offense. And he reported to prison March 13, 2023.

[Julia Betavale]

No way. So he's out.

[Patrick Hines]

Even if I'm wrong, this guy's a piece of shit, this Michael Nastu guy. So whatever. But so back with creepy Kevin, the first guy. He's telling Flory about this like 43 year old Dominican sex pot he has in his bed who's dying for him to get back and pleasure her. Like, are you kidding? Please, like, this isn't true. But they're like, we have to follow every lead, so if we can find her, maybe we can find him. I'm like, she doesn't exist. No, there's no way she exists.

[Julia Betavale]

And then we go in this, like, he's telling Ru that he's going out to dinner in Greenwich, Connecticut that night, which is like, not far from where they are. And they're trying to get. Get him to tell her what restaurant he's going to so that they can go and find him. Because once again, they know the make and model of his car.

[Patrick Hines]

It's a BMW.

[Julia Betavale]

So he says, yeah, that night he's taking the Beamer. He tells her, right?

[Patrick Hines]

So like, he says he's driving the BMW. He says he's at this restaurant. The restaurant is closing in 15 minutes. So like the cops, they're in the parking lot.

[Julia Betavale]

Like, Rue and the cop are in the parking lot.

[Rue]

Okay, we've got two people coming out.

[Julia Betavale]

Oh. Oh, Holy.

[Rue]

It's a gray haired man. Oh, but he looks so thin. And a dark haired woman. And they're going to another car.

[Julia Betavale]

I gotta tell you, I was surprised. Like, it turns out this guy is not here. He's been like. This was the moment I realized that Rue's been totally catfished by the fact.

[Patrick Hines]

And it's like, there's no BMW, there's no sex pot in the bed. There's no fancy restaurant. Like, either he's doing this to try to lure Flory and like, impress her that. That he's rich, or he's really trying. He knows Ru is not a 15 year old and he's trying to like, trick her and bait her.

[Julia Betavale]

Or. Right, Like. Or he's just like. It's somewhere in between where he's just some very sick man living like a fantasy life where he's at a computer somewhere being, like, pretend. Like, in his mind, he's at this fancy restaurant in Greenwich and like this. You know what I mean? And Talking to this 15 year old girl like that also wouldn't surprise me.

[Patrick Hines]

That's what I think. That was my first option. Yeah, like. And the. But like, he's just a creep and a loser and that's all he'll ever be. Like, he's never going to the fancy restaurant in his Beamer.

[Julia Betavale]

But that also doesn't mean that he's not a total danger. That like, like, if he could have lured an act, like, maybe Rue is his first attempt at this and the next time he actually will meet the kid at the hotel.

[Patrick Hines]

Sending a 15 year old a dick pic is traumatized is enough.

[Julia Betavale]

100%.

[Patrick Hines]

It's also the cop consultant guy, Mark shows how easy it is to get information on people.

[Julia Betavale]

Oh, really?

[Patrick Hines]

Drives up to the valet.

[Shelby]

Oh, yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

Hey, boss, I'm supposed to pick this guy up tonight. I don't know if you saw him in here or have you ever seen him before?

[Patrick Hines]

No.

[Julia Betavale]

No. Okay.

[Patrick Hines]

All right, thank you.

[Julia Betavale]

Have a good night. Okay.

[Patrick Hines]

Have you seen him? Do you know where he is? Does he look familiar to you? And the valet is like, no. And I'm like, oh, so it's that simple?

[Julia Betavale]

It's that.

[Patrick Hines]

Just walk up with a little air of authority.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

This is why you don't say, if someone calls and says, is Jillian working tonight?

[Julia Betavale]

Right. Of course.

[Patrick Hines]

Is so and so working? Like, no.

[Julia Betavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Never answer that over the phone or in person.

[Julia Betavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, just say, I don't know.

[Julia Betavale]

No, I mean, I mean, I'm glad that no one's got this piece of shit's back, but it's just like that work was for nothing. And it kind of ends with Rue driving off in the back of this car, being like, we'll get him next week.

[Patrick Hines]

We don't. So Mitch, we got.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Kevin, we don't. So in my research, he's still unknown because I learned today in my research that there are like, they get a lot of these guys.

[Julia Betavale]

Oh, really?

[Patrick Hines]

Then the Internet like finds them. Oh. So it's like, oh, Mitch is known. Mitch is really this guy.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. So like I didn't find like, I found links that led me to him because these people are collecting them also as warnings to other people in the community. Like whatever.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So everyone wants to know who Kevin is. Like Kevin is like the air. Air quotes. Kevin.

[Julia Betavale]

Where did this air this cover plus.

[Patrick Hines]

I guess this is on discovery plus. And then they had to move to YouTube, I think. So they're only like two seasons and then by the third season. But we'll ask Ru.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Hopefully we can talk to her. But I might have found Kevin. I'm not 100% sure.

[Julia Betavale]

Oh my God. Really?

[Patrick Hines]

The guy I found doesn't live in Connecticut. I don't know if the ages match up, but he has 19 or like 20 car dealerships.

[Julia Betavale]

No way.

[Patrick Hines]

Went to the Citadel and was part of a really large tree planting initiative.

[Julia Betavale]

How did you find him?

[Patrick Hines]

A link led to a link that led to a link.

[Julia Betavale]

Wow.

[Patrick Hines]

Now I'm not going to say this guy's name because it very well could not be him. So that would actually be doxing. And we don't do that.

[Shelby]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

But I did find like there's one guy that like the Citadel connection, the multiple like upwards of 20 car dealerships and the tree planting thing.

[Julia Betavale]

Wow.

[Patrick Hines]

But he doesn't live in Connecticut.

[Julia Betavale]

And no one else pointing to this guy?

[Patrick Hines]

No. There are like this link has come up like one or two times in my research.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

But like there was. There were no traction on the links or anything that I found like no traction in the comments necessarily. But I don't think it's him. But like it's weird to have those three things in common. I mean those are three weird things in and of themselves. Or like, like identify. Yeah. Unusual. Thank you. I cannot think of words. But then three, those three unusual things. Like the tree planting.

[Shelby]

Yeah.

[Julia Betavale]

And the 19 dealerships and the Citadel. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Interesting. So. But I'm not saying anything about anyone's name cuz we don't dox people here.

[Julia Betavale]

Oh my God, girl. We did. What's it called?

[Patrick Hines]

It's called Undercover Underage. This is season one, Episode one. It was really, really tough.

[Julia Betavale]

It was hard.

[Patrick Hines]

Tom recommended. I think it's very, very important to showing like how dangerous it is, how easy it is for kids to get wrapped up in this, and just the good work that these mostly women are doing, especially Rue, like, how hard it must be for her for sure to, like, do good work in the world. Like, Ru, I hope you're having a nice evening at home tonight.

[Julia Betavale]

Oh, me too.

[Patrick Hines]

That's what I really hope.

[Julia Betavale]

Ru, have a glass of chardonnay, girl.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, God. I guess take it back. Take that power back, fam.

[Julia Betavale]

Don't forget, we are on Discord. You can go to the link in the show notes here. If you want to join that community, find us on YouTube. Go subscribe, even if you're not going to watch the videos. But watch the videos. They're so fun. They're very engaging. I sometimes I think just like. Like, we'll skip through them, but then I get stuck watching them because we're compelling.

[Patrick Hines]

That's nice.

[Julia Betavale]

I know. I really like that.

[Patrick Hines]

Over the next, like, few weeks, it might start looking a little different.

[Shelby]

Yes.

[Julia Betavale]

We're. We are continuing our journey with our booth. It's been 10 years, and it's time for a face. A little.

[Patrick Hines]

Time for a little bit of a makeover. But we just got a. It's a lot of growing pains for everyone involved. I think it's hard.

[Julia Betavale]

It is hard, but we're figuring what.

[Patrick Hines]

The hell we're doing.

[Julia Betavale]

We're going with the tires.

[Patrick Hines]

We love it.

[Julia Betavale]

And we love you, fam.

[Patrick Hines]

We love you. Stay safe out there, everyone.

[Julia Betavale]

Right? We'll see you soon.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay, Bye.

[Julia Betavale]

Bye.

[Patrick Hines]

Have that pizza.

[Julia Betavale]

Oh, and the chardonnay.

[Patrick Hines]

Whatever.