441: Manhunt: The Liar, The Thief, The Conman

Summary

Podcast Summary: True Crime Obsessed - Episode 441: "Manhunt: The Liar, The Thief, The Conman"

Release Date: July 15, 2025

---

Introduction

In Episode 441 of True Crime Obsessed, hosts Jillian Benzavalli and Patrick Hines delve into the harrowing tale of Christine Handy and her encounter with a manipulative conman named Alexander Darken. This episode, titled "Manhunt: The Liar, The Thief, The Conman," unpacks the intricate web of deceit spun by Alexander, leading to financial ruin and emotional trauma for Christine and her family.

Christine's Initial Encounter with Alexander

The story begins in 2003 when Christine Handy, a single mother of three undergoing a difficult divorce, meets Alexander Darken at a coffee shop in Chetlinum, Gloucestershire. Patrick reflects on the deceptive charm Alexander exuded, noting, "Alexander Darken. Darken. D apostrophe, A, R, I, K. Yeah, Alexander." ([06:27])

Christine, seeking companionship after her divorce settlement of £650,000, is drawn to Alexander's seemingly sophisticated persona. They begin a relationship that appears stable and loving, with Alexander integrating smoothly into Christine's life and gaining the affection of her children, particularly her son, Simon.

Red Flags and Financial Exploitation

As their relationship progresses, subtle red flags emerge. Alexander fabricates an impressive educational background, claiming to have attended prestigious institutions like Westminster School, Eton, and Oxford University by age 15. Jillian comments, "He tells her he comes into the city every Monday to, quote, do his banking." ([06:32])

Despite Christine's initial skepticism, Alexander's persistence leads her to lend him substantial sums of money. In August 2003, he requests £75,000 under the guise of needing it for his studies. Christine reluctantly agrees, pressuring her friend for assistance when Alexander demands more. Patrick warns, "She's been pressured to loan him money, which is a clear red flag." ([17:14])

Over the next few years, Alexander siphons off approximately £600,000 from Christine, utilizing sophisticated methods to conceal his actions. These financial manipulations leave Christine financially devastated, forcing her to sell her house and borrow additional funds to cover Alexander's fabricated expenses.

The Turning Point: Discovering the Truth

By 2008, Christine's suspicions grow when she notices a brand new BMW outside Alexander's home. Jillian highlights Christine's increasing vigilance: "She's starting to feel like there's not something's going on here." ([31:40])

To uncover the truth, Christine collaborates with Philip, a journalist and fellow victim of Alexander's cons. Together, they embark on a mission to track Alexander's financial discrepancies and past criminal activities. Their investigation reveals an article from the Daily Mail dating back to 1994, exposing Alexander's history of fraud and deceit.

Patrick notes, "With his name clarified, it's obvious Alexander was a master manipulator who had evaded justice for years." ([52:35])

The Manhunt and Arrest

Determined to bring Alexander to justice, Christine and Philip enlist the help of private investigator Gil Alba. Their concerted efforts culminate in locating Alexander in Mount Kisco, upstate New York. On [60:07], Jillian recounts the intense confrontation where Christine directly faces Alexander in a gym parking lot, leading to his immediate arrest by Gloucestershire Police officers upon his return from a flight.

Alexander is subsequently charged with multiple counts of theft, false accounting, and sexual offenses, including rape and sexual assault of a minor. Jillian emphasizes the gravity of his crimes: "He's a horrifying monster... not just scamming people financially but also being a sexual predator." ([58:50])

Aftermath and Lessons Learned

The episode concludes with Christine and Philip seeking closure and rebuilding their lives after Alexander's incarceration. They reflect on the importance of vigilance in relationships and the necessity of safeguarding personal information. Patrick imparts a critical takeaway: "Listen to your gut... don’t trust everybody right away. Keep your personal stuff to yourself as long as you can." ([57:35])

Christine's resilience and determination serve as a testament to overcoming betrayal and reclaiming one's life. The episode underscores the devastating impact of financial and emotional abuse while highlighting the power of community and perseverance in seeking justice.

Notable Quotes

• Patrick Hines ([06:27]): "Alexander Darken. Darken. D apostrophe, A, R, I, K. Yeah, Alexander."

• Patrick Hines ([17:14]): "She's been pressured to loan him money, which is a clear red flag."

• Jillian Benzavalli ([31:40]): "She's starting to feel like there's not something's going on here."

• Patrick Hines ([52:35]): "With his name clarified, it's obvious Alexander was a master manipulator who had evaded justice for years."

• Jillian Benzavalli ([58:50]): "He's a horrifying monster... not just scamming people financially but also being a sexual predator."

• Patrick Hines ([57:35]): "Listen to your gut... don’t trust everybody right away. Keep your personal stuff to yourself as long as you can."

Conclusion

Episode 441 of True Crime Obsessed meticulously unravels the complex case of Christine Handy and Alexander Darken, shedding light on the intricate strategies employed by con artists to exploit trust and manipulate victims. Through engaging storytelling and insightful commentary, Jillian and Patrick offer listeners a compelling narrative that underscores the importance of awareness and caution in personal relationships.

---

Note: This summary excludes segments of the transcript related to advertisements and sponsor messages to maintain focus on the core true crime narrative.

Transcript

[Jillian Benzavalli]

There's like, one not terrible straight white man in this. Oh, yeah. Two. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

They both have the same name.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

That's true. That was a little confusing at first.

[Patrick Hines]

But also, does it make it easier for us to keep track? Like, oh, the fills are. Okay.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

I don't.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay. I like it. Commencer1.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Hi. Jillian Benzavalli.

[Patrick Hines]

Hi. Patrick Hines.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Fam. Join the Facebook group. I love our Facebook group. I'm so grateful for our Facebook. We've been at the Facebook group for, like, eight or nine years now.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. A wonderful listener set it up for us.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

At the beginning, we both were like, we have a Facebook group.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And they were like, yes. And then they were like, I don't feel like moderating this anymore.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Can you guys take it over? Yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll do it.

[Patrick Hines]

But thank you for doing that.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

It's so fun. It's such a great place to make new friends, have some community, talk about the episodes. It's great. It's the true crime obsessed podcast discussion group because we wanted to make it really hard to find.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. Just as wordy as possible.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

As many words as we could find. Also, join us over on the Patreon. You tell them about the pates?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, we're on the Pates. We do, like, after parties where we do AMAs and we give advice, but that's where all of our ad free episodes live. So it's ad free versions of the episodes on the regular feed, but also all of those series that are like three, four, five, six episodes. Like, that's where we cover that on the Patreon.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

And that's all at the $5 level, where you can also get drag bingo once a month, which is like the funnest thing ever. At the $20 level, our hero bell level, we do make special episodes just for them. And we just recorded one from unsolved mysteries from 1991.

[Patrick Hines]

Two words for my Unsolved Mysteries, girlies. Who's Tyler? If you know, you know. If you don't know, you're gonna go. It's a roller coaster, and you need.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

To be brought into the knowledge.

[Patrick Hines]

So. And it's not just episodes just for you. Like, that's sometimes what we do. But we also, like, send you stuff in the mail occasionally.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Definitely get the calendar at Christmas. We always send out a pride thing. We did a trucker hat this year that said you can sit with us. You can sit with us because we want people to feel included.

[Patrick Hines]

That's true.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

What are we talking about today, girl?

[Patrick Hines]

It's called manhunt the liar, the thief, the con man. He has all three of those things. And an idiot and an idiot and.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

A monster, and a true, true monster.

[Patrick Hines]

Just horrifying all around.

[Christine Handy]

£75,000, £130,000, 50,000. The money was just going out like water.

[Patrick Hines]

He took £600,000.

[Christine Handy]

You hear about con stories and they last like a few months. They don't last years and have a child in the process.

[Patrick Hines]

This was a man who was excellent at what he did. What he did was basically ruin people's lives.

[Christine Handy]

He's stolen my money and I wanted answers.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

She will chase that man to the end of the earth.

[Christine Handy]

We needed to find him, so we got onto the Internet looking for a private investigator.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

I told him, listen, we know where he is. You have to come with us right now.

[Christine Handy]

He just puffed out his chest and just said, don't do this to me, Chrissy.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

He was like a cornered rat. And she found him.

[Christine Handy]

You don't want to think that you've been a relationship with a predator.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

So we start in a place I can't pronounce.

[Patrick Hines]

You want to try?

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Okay. It's Cham. Gloucestershire.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, God.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Oh, no.

[Patrick Hines]

I think it's Chetlinum.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Chetum or Chet. Did I get the Gloucestershire?

[Patrick Hines]

Sure.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Because I said all of these. Like, it looks gorgeous. I love the uk. Like, I love, love, love. But all of these places sound like Shakespeare invented them. And they're all in the hobbit. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

That's exactly what I like.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

It's Stratford Upon Avon. I want to go to Stratford Upon Avon.

[Patrick Hines]

Let's do it.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Okay, great.

[Patrick Hines]

Go on. A little hobbit hole.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

I wasn't expecting you to come along, but I'm thrilled to have a travel companion.

[Patrick Hines]

No, I'm down with the hobbits.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Okay, great.

[Patrick Hines]

You know, I like I'd fit in with the elves. I think I want to be with the entire trees and everything.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm not going to fucking Mordor, though. No.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Well, we meet Christine Handy. She was going through a divorce in 2003. They had three kids. We only meet one of them. Their son Simon is here to talk to us.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, she was married for 11 years.

[Christine Handy]

I thought I'd be married forever, so it was a big thing, my divorce.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

It was definitely a very difficult time for my mum, but we never really knew that. I think they were trying quite hard to shield us from it.

[Patrick Hines]

Simon says Simon is Christine's son. It was a really hard time, but all of that was hidden from the kids. And I'm like, you know what? Good. No need to drag them into it. Like so many people insist on doing.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

A million percent, keep that shit away from the kids.

[Patrick Hines]

So Christine was kind of like coming into her own as a single mom. She had her routine. She was working part time at a boutique. Like, she was like, I was happy.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yeah. Her divorce settlement was. She tells us the number. £650,000. That's a lot of money.

[Patrick Hines]

So it was £650,000 in 2003, which is $817,000 in 2003, which is like 1.4 million today.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Good. You get it, Christine, you get it in that divorce settlement. You heard?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

She's raising the kids. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And we don't know anything about what happened, just that this was hard on her, obviously, being married 11 years and she was like, like getting her groove back.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yeah, truly. Truly. And she buys a house outright, no mortgage. She. There's a small amount left to live on, but she knew it wouldn't last forever. So she gets a job. She gets a part time job in London. And every Monday she's got a routine. She gets the kids off to school. She would, quote, pop into Soho, have a coffee and read the paper before work. I love Soho.

[Patrick Hines]

Like straight out of a sitcom. I know everyone's always knocking on or barely knocking on everyone's door to have like breakfast in the morning before work. Since when?

[Jillian Benzavalli]

It's a British sitcom starring Elaine Page. This is called Christine.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God. Oh, I love it.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Me too.

[Patrick Hines]

And then she'd go to work at this job she loved. Like everything was coming up. Christine. One Monday a man asks to join her and I'm like, oh, God.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

But I know from a thousand miles away you can see it. She's sitting outside at this outdoor cafe.

[Christine Handy]

And next minute I was aware that there was somebody stood next to me. And I looked up and they said, do you mind if I join you? And I just said, help yourself. And then I looked around and realized that all the other tables were empty, which I thought was strange.

[Patrick Hines]

No, this is weird because all the other tables are empty. And I'm like. So she's. He's hitting on you.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

He's hitting on you.

[Patrick Hines]

So his name is Alexander Darken. Darken.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Wait, hang on. It's Alexander. Oh, she like. They say it so beautifully in this. Alexander Dark. D apostrophe, A, R, I, K. Yeah, Alexander.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, he's going to have a whole mouthful of a name in about five minutes.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Wait until we get to his, the name. He tells her.

[Patrick Hines]

So he's a financial consultant. And he comes in, he tells her he comes into the city every Monday to, quote, do his banking. They chat, whatever. Christine heads to work and she expects to never see him again. It's just a conversation they had one morning over coffee.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yeah. Next Monday, she goes to her coffee shop. He's there, same table, same chair. And he's like, hey, Chrissy. And she's like, hey, Alexander. And I was like, look, in a way, I can see how this could be charming. That like, oh, it's my new life. It's my once a week into Soho. Now I've got a friend. Like, this is kind of fun or whatever, but like my spidey senses, I know it's because what we do for a living, but my spidey senses are optimal.

[Patrick Hines]

And we're also talking about it in a documentary. It's not like a friend of ours telling us this lovely story. Right? Like, context is important here.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

I wonder if there's more to the story.

[Patrick Hines]

I wonder. Travel down the road.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Back again, girl. Wild Alaskan company is back. And not a minute too soon because we have so much fish from them. And we just pulled it out of the freezer the other day because, like you can freeze it and store it and all of that. We thought it, it was the most delicious seafood I've had in forever.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. If you're not hip to the Wild Alaskan company, please. They are the sustainable solution. Correct. So they're the best way to get wild caught, perfectly portioned, nutrient dense seafood delivered directly to your door. I don't think you've tasted fish this good.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

I'm just saying, I literally haven't. And even when I go to like fancy supermarkets, I've yet to have fish that I've purchased like locally that is better than the fish from the wild Alaskan company, which we are obsessed with.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And it's 100% wild caught, never farmed fish. That means there's no antibiotics, GMOs or additives. Just clean, real fish that support healthy oceans and fishing communities.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

And fam, you can try this risk free with a 100% money back guarantee. So if you're not completely satisfied with your first box, which you absolutely will be, Wild Alaskan company will give you a free full refund. No questions asked, no risk, just high quality seafood. We need our protein, like everybody need. You need your protein.

[Patrick Hines]

We really do. We really do. There was one time I was like really hangry and I just said to my Like, I need protein. And now it's an inside joke. We have, but literally we do. We need it.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

It's true. So, fam. Not all fish are the same. Get seafood you can trust. Go to wildalaskan.com TCO for 35 bucks off your first box of premium wild caught seafood.

[Patrick Hines]

That's wildalaskin.com TCO for 35 bucks OFF your first order.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Thanks to Wild Alaskan Company for sponsoring this episode and honestly sponsoring our dinner and lunches for most of last week.

[Patrick Hines]

And that I need protein bit is true. We need protein. Don't get hangry.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Don't get angry.

[Patrick Hines]

So they have coffee. Christine tells them all about her divorce. Then they go their separate ways.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Can this be a cautionary tale? We gotta be pretty guarded about super personal information with brand new people. This is advice I will not take and such, but this is advice that I will give.

[Patrick Hines]

Don't give them too much. Yeah, they're really psychic. They would know.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Oh, 100%.

[Patrick Hines]

But it's the same thing. Don't like, don't show all your cards.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

No, because I was thinking about why do we do what we do? And I really hope that, like, people are learning less. Like, I hope that we're learning lessons. Listeners are learning lessons. I sure am. This man is going to scam the living shit out of this lady. And it starts with him just getting the little pieces of nuggets of information that he needs. And like, very, very quickly. She's done nothing wrong. She's not the bad guy. Christina's great, but like, if we can take something away from these stories, like, let's be a little guarded at first once. I will not take this into this advice.

[Patrick Hines]

No, no, no. But and also, cause he's kind of starting a little slow. Like he lets you know, she leaves and she's like, oh, I won't see him again. You know, like, now we're at the same time.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Good ones aren't patient. You know what I mean? We learn from con mum. We learn. Like, these people are willing to, like, put in the time.

[Patrick Hines]

So it happens again next week. This is the third time. And now Alexander buys Christine a coffee. It's already waiting for her, like, oh, here's your order. Like, trying to be cute.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

And like, this should be really sweet. This should be the beginning of a beautiful love story. Well, it's not. She's had kind of a difficult date today and she I love. Look, nobody wants you to have a bad day, but sometimes when you do, you know, you really love it.

[Patrick Hines]

But, like, where's the lie? It's just not.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

It's just not.

[Patrick Hines]

It's just not.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

It's just not.

[Patrick Hines]

And we start, like. The more Alexander talks about himself, the more I'm like, oh, red flag. So Alexander tells Christine.

[Christine Handy]

We started talking about his education, and he said he'd been to Westminster School and he'd been to Eton and that he'd gone on to Oxford University at the age of 15, that he had degrees in engineering and economics, and he.

[Patrick Hines]

Was at Oxford by the time he was 15. I'm like, okay, no, I'm gonna stop you right there. It's just like, when something's like, oh, right in this context, immediately I'm like, does it all go back to Oxford? No, no, that's not the answer. But it is something that made my ears go, like.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Because Doogie Howser, he is not. You know what I mean? Max Casella from Newsies.

[Patrick Hines]

From Newsies.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

How could I ever forget Max Casella? I think about that show all the time.

[Patrick Hines]

And the Sopranos. He's in the Sopranos. First time he showed up, I was like, I know, he's great.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Oh, he's the best.

[Patrick Hines]

He's not bad, is he?

[Jillian Benzavalli]

No, no, no.

[Patrick Hines]

We still love Max.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Cassette? No, but I was just listening to. I was, like, approving our episode. You did your macho impress. Oh, sure. So your macho.

[Patrick Hines]

I shot the clerk. I shot the clerk. Oh, my God, that movie is perfect for me.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

So good.

[Patrick Hines]

So Alexander asks, this is where I'm like, oh, God, I know. Alexander asks for Christine's number. She says, no, no. And then she says, he looked really wounded. So I said, okay, fine. Here's my number. And I'm like, ugh. So this guy has her number, and he basically starts harassing her.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

He has her number. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

But he starts harassing her.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And she says, he kept asking me to go out to dinner with him. I'm like, block the number.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

I.

[Patrick Hines]

This person just blocked the number.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Well, because I think that she's feeling a little flirty. She just wants to go slow. She's like. I said, let's not do dinner. Let's do lunch. Like that. That feels safe to her.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. But, like, everyone out there, your gut is right. The first time she said no, at first she was kind, and then she was kind of like, oh. Then he kept asking, and, oh, he made her feel bad. Like, this happens to women all the time.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

And I gotta say, I think that he's looking for women who will act that way. Because that's how he gets her every time.

[Patrick Hines]

Every single time.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Because she says no, and then she feels bad, and then she does it.

[Patrick Hines]

So, like, first she says no to the date, then she says yes, then she says no to dinner, then she says yes to lunch, Then lunch was great. Like, good enough that Christine enjoyed herself to be like, yeah, I'll go to the wine bar for date number two.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yes. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So it was another very nice time. Until.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

He produces his passport, and he's like, christine, I need you to know who I really am.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

This is unbelievable. So she opens the passport. I'm going to do my best here.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay, go ahead.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

She opens the passport, and his real name is Alexander. What's the second word, Mark? Oh, I put March.

[Patrick Hines]

It's the easiest one I know, but.

[Christine Handy]

I wrote March, Alexander Mark Alphonsus Nathaniel d' Arrakan de Rothschild Hatton. I said, like, that's rather a mouthful. And he said, yeah, well, I just wanted you to know that I was.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

A Rothschild Alphonsus Nathaniel d' Archian de Rothschild Hatton.

[Patrick Hines]

It took the subtitles two frames to cover. It wasn't one line of the subtitles. It took them two frames. They had to split it up because the name is so long. And Christine's like, all right, so you got a long name.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Exactly the problem. And he's like, I just wanted you to know that I'm a Rothschild now. Chrissy says all she knew about the Rothschild. I didn't know that was a real thing. I thought that was, like, a fancy department store.

[Patrick Hines]

I knew as much as Christine knew, which is they're an incredibly prominent name in banking. They started. And then I Wikipedia it. They started out in 16th century. Like, there's, like, a lot. This is not a Rothschild podcast.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

No.

[Patrick Hines]

So, yeah, yeah, but, like, it's a name where you're like, oh, that's no joke. Like, you throw that name around, and when it. And when it's. When it comes to money, you're like.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Oh, and there are people. Like, there are Rothschilds to this day, I think.

[Patrick Hines]

So.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

There must be.

[Patrick Hines]

There must be.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

So she's saying, like, he's making her feel special by telling her a secret. Like, letting, like, this guy's got the con down to a science.

[Patrick Hines]

And she's like, oh, wow. He trusts me.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yes, yes.

[Patrick Hines]

They have a great night at the wine bar. He kisses her. She says, I felt very floaty. And I'm like, yeah. To quote Carrie Bradshaw, you were drunk and he was rich.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, but, like.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

And once Again, like, that should be fine.

[Patrick Hines]

Would we not all fucking feel floaty?

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Honest to God.

[Patrick Hines]

So they are now officially dating again. This started out because Christine said no.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

And I just want people everywhere to know it's no shade to Christine. But it's like if your gut is saying no, if, like, you don't think about it, you're just like, no, thanks.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Maybe, like, go with that.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Lean into that a little bit. I know.

[Patrick Hines]

And it's hard to do when someone's puppyizing you and whatever and making you feel bad and what's the harm? And then you feel like a monster. I know. The world is designed to work against us. I hear you.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

It's true. It's true. Because it is like, it is her gut to say no, but I think she's single, maybe kind of a little bit ready to mingle. Sure.

[Patrick Hines]

And that's fine.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

When she says no, she shouldn't be punished for it. I know. No. God, no. But when she says no and then offers, like, a lower level, he says yes, but then is able to talk her into the higher level thing.

[Patrick Hines]

If we're starting out negotiating.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Bad news.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

So they're dating officially. Alex is showing up with flowers, like, great conversation. They have all the same interests, like, I'm sure they do.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yeah, of course.

[Patrick Hines]

But, you know, the big thing is that Christine's kids really liked them.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yeah. And the kids are young. Simon's the only one who's here. But when we see this is 2008, three, that this is all happening, it's now 20, 25, and Simon looks like he's like 27.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And I think this was only from, like, a few years ago this came out.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

So, yeah. So, like, I. Simon was probably not even 10.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. You know, and Simon's like, you know, he was always really nice to us. He dressed very smartly. And, like, we see a lot of photos from this time. This guy is very comfortable. He's lounging all over the couch. He's holding her kids, hugging her kids.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Taking them to, like, fancy places. He would give them treats.

[Christine Handy]

That was very attractive to see that he got on well with the children. And the children did respond to him.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

She is obviously single with kids, and it's nice to have a man around.

[Patrick Hines]

Who was keen to be involved with us. So, yeah, Christine's happy. The kids love him. And Alex is like, yes, my plan is working.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yes. Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So it's October 2003. Three months into the relationship. Alex has been accepted to the London Business School. He's getting his mba. Let's break out the champagne.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Brings, literally, champagne to, like, celebrate this whole thing with her. He's getting a thing called a bursary, which I had to look it up. It's a scholarship.

[Patrick Hines]

Scholarship. Which is weird because he's a Rothschild. Right. You're like, well. And he's like, oh, the thing about that is that all my money is in Swiss bank accounts, and I don't want to move a single cent over to the UK because of the taxes. Right.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Because Covid didn't happen yet, so we couldn't blame it on that number.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, I can't move my money because of COVID You can move your money into my account. Like, believe it.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Like, why?

[Patrick Hines]

I don't understand. So he doesn't get the scholarship. Like, he. He. This is what he tells Christine.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

He tells Christine that he has this big, long meeting to get the scholarship, and he doesn't get the scholarship because they look at him and say, well, with a name like Rothschild, you shouldn't be asking for money.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

And he's devastated. He's almost in tears.

[Patrick Hines]

And so with a name like Rothschild, he actually asks Christine for the money. Like, he wants 75,000 pounds, which is almost $100,000.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yeah. And it's like, I. This guy's gotta know about her divorce settlement. Like, somehow he must know. She just bought a house, had a little bit of money left.

[Patrick Hines]

She told him.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Right, Exactly. And so £75,000 is about what she would have left over. She's smart in this moment, and she's like, I can't do that. Like, that's like my little nest egg for my family. And then he says, could you possibly ask a friend also?

[Patrick Hines]

He should have the. He's asking for money that he allegedly already has.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Exact.

[Patrick Hines]

So she goes.

[Christine Handy]

The pressure started to build, and I felt backed into a corner to sort of help him. And I went to the friend to ask if they'd consider loaning me the money, and they said yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So she asks a friend for the money, and she lies.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

She tells her friend it's to redesign her kitchen, and the friend says yes. First of all, who is this rich friend who's totally fine paying for someone else's new kitchen?

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Send me 5k. Here you go, girl.

[Patrick Hines]

What are you gonna do when you don't redo your kitchen? Like, that's a lie that you have to really follow through with.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Oh, my God. Well, now she's gotta redesign her kitchen.

[Patrick Hines]

But she can't, because all of that Money is for him.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

You know what she's gonna do? She's gonna, like, move the refrigerator to the other side of the room. Maybe she'll, like, paint the walls or something, get a new table.

[Patrick Hines]

It's like, show me those blueprints. If I'm giving you $75,000, you didn't.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Even knock down a wall. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

I expect to be there for the first dinner in the new kitchen.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Literally. You would, like. That would be the thing.

[Patrick Hines]

I pay for this shit.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

This is my kitchen.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, it' whatever I want. And then suddenly you're not redoing your kitchen.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

That's a bad lie.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

No, it's. And also, like, I don't know, this seems really extreme to me. Once again, I'm not blaming Christine, but like, when your brand new boyfriend asks you for 75k and then gets mad at you to the point of making you feel like you have to ask a friend, you got to leave that guy.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And if you're a part of a really powerful financial institution, just like, get the money.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

I know, I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Where's your fucking privilege, man?

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Exactly. And so what we're saying is, is this is never right. If you meet a Rockefeller and they can't pay for dinner, they're not a Rockefeller. They're not.

[Patrick Hines]

There's a problem.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

They really. I promise you, they're not. Christine never says this. I'm not assigning this to her, but my guess is she's dazzled by the potential of money down the road.

[Patrick Hines]

I think anybody would be, you know.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Girl, Pretty Litter is back. Tell us everything about Macaroni.

[Patrick Hines]

Macaroni's great. I saw Ashley over July 4th weekend and there were several other people there. She was holding court, talking about Macaroni, how great he is, and how she knows he's healthy thanks to Pretty Litter.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Well, that's the whole thing. Pretty Litter has that health indicator. So when the cat uses the litter box, if it turns a different color, then you know, you need to take the cat to the vet. Because as I always say, you might not know this, but cats can't speak English.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And it was like an actual Pretty Litter ad, just in real life. Cuz everyone at the. At the barbecue was like, wait, doesn't your house stink? And she was like, no, let me tell you why.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

And if you don't have Pretty Litter, your house does stink. Also, Pretty Litter, this is a big one. They ship free right to your door. So no heavy bags to carry and no last minute pet store Runs. I remember that was the worst thing was like carrying those heavy, heavy bags or boxes from the car or from the store. Like none of that was pre litter.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And just to go back to the stink.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Oh, please.

[Patrick Hines]

So they have this advanced odor control. So that means your home smells like your home, not a gigantic litter box.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And they have an ultra absorbent formula which uses less material than clay litter. So that means it's. You're not like traipsing it all over your house and you don't have like litter dust.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Ultra absorbent formula. That's my drag. Sure, fam. Right now you can save 20% on your first order and get a free.

[Patrick Hines]

Cat [e-mail] TCO that's prettylittleitter.com TCO to save 20% on your first order and get a free cat toy.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Pretty litter.com TCO okay.

[Patrick Hines]

And just saying. Pretty litter cannot detect every feline health issue or prevent or die. A diagnosis can only come from a licensed veterinarian. Terms and conditions apply. See CSIP for details. So it's 2004, six months into the relationship, and Christine's like, everything's great. And I'm like, is it your rich boyfriend doesn't have any money, you're lying to your friends, and now you can't.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Have your best friend Sylvia over for dinner anymore?

[Patrick Hines]

Stop stealing money from them. Like, how great could it be?

[Jillian Benzavalli]

It's not that great.

[Patrick Hines]

So Alexander pressures Christine into having another baby.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

This is insane.

[Christine Handy]

He would talk about how fortunate I was to have my three children by this stage. I'm 39. And he was saying we're in a relationship together. It's my right as a person to be able to be a father.

[Patrick Hines]

It's my right as a person to be a father. Excuse. I beg your finest fucking pardon.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

And they're also. They've been together for six months.

[Patrick Hines]

Three months later, she's pregnant and it was a surprise to her. And I'm like, wait, but were you not trying? Because I thought he was like. He demanded a baby. So she realizes she's pregnant and like, suddenly and it's a surprise.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yeah, after like a long, like, girls weekend. Skiing. Which barf.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, like three. Skiing.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Why they didn't be going skiing?

[Patrick Hines]

You know, it's the cat cult. We just did that horrible ski trip where everyone had to meet for the first time.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

No. Oh, my God. I know. Gwyneth Paltrow gets almost killed on a ski slip. Why is anybody going?

[Patrick Hines]

I don't know. You Know, I'm certainly not.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

She won that lawsuit.

[Patrick Hines]

She did. I'm there in the lodge drinking that hot chocolate. I'll see you guys later.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

And I would definitely do that one time.

[Patrick Hines]

I'll wear the cute ski outfits. I feel like the fashion is cute, you know, like, just like. I don't know, the big boots.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

No, because pants, my whole thing is. And I know this doesn't really affect you, but, like, I would be thinking about the beach trip we could be on.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

I'm there for skiing, for the cute pants, allegedly, that I just made up that they're cute pants.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Pink.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, cute pants and hot chocolate. And like a large moment, a spiked hot chocolate. But I like that. To me, the beach equals vacation. To me, the beach. Like, I have a very strong association with, like. Oh. That means I'm like, unless something or someone is on fire, don't call me 100%. Like, I'm off. I'm off the grid completely.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

When I'm on a beach skiing, it's. Everything feels so cold to me. I just. I can't imagine. I'm sitting hours, tiny little studio in a jacket.

[Patrick Hines]

I know, because we turn on the acker real jacket. I'm wearing shorts.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Why am I so cold all the time now?

[Patrick Hines]

I was very cold. I was shivering before.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

You were.

[Patrick Hines]

But then I get worked up talking about these assholes, and now the hoodie comes off.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

I. Right now I feel pretty cozy.

[Patrick Hines]

So she's pregnant, and she calls Alex because this is what he wanted, so he's going to be so happy.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Over the moon.

[Patrick Hines]

And he answers, and she's like.

[Christine Handy]

I said, well, I've just done a pregnancy test and we're having a baby. And there was this total silence at the other end of the phone. And at that point, I start panicking. And he said, oh, hang on a minute. I've just got to do something. I'll ring you back.

[Patrick Hines]

And he goes quiet. And he's like, oh, I'm gonna have to call you back. I'm like, second family. Like, what's the deal with that, Right?

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Totally.

[Patrick Hines]

Ten minutes later, he calls back, and he's very, very excited.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

She's devastated. She's like, too little too late, Dick.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And she's pregnant. And also she's going through it alone. He demands that she get pregnant. She is pregnant. And now he's ghosting her. Like, and they're fighting about it. She has to go to all of her scans and all of her appointments by herself.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

They don't Live together also. Like, they live separately. She's doing this pregnancy herself because he wanted her to.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. So now it's December 2004, 18 months into the relationship. And we're at Christine's due date.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And Alex, of course, can't be there because he's, quote, going abroad for a meeting. I'm like, can you pick up? Can you swing by the bank?

[Jillian Benzavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

And unload your millions of dollars.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

While you're out of town 100%. Like, what are you talking about?

[Jillian Benzavalli]

And like, she. So he's.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm saying that. Cause he's not out of town.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

Full of shit.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Right, Right. And. But he promises he's gonna be back by the time the baby is due. Christine is home alone. And her water breaks 11 days early. She goes into labor 11 days early. She's calling Alex. He says he'll make his way home. Right now she's, like, in the house, packing the bag, dragging, like, in labor, dragging her shit to the hospital alone.

[Patrick Hines]

So he does not make it, of course.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Christine gives birth to Marcus, which Marcus, in a British accent, reminds me of that movie about a boy.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

I don't know anything about that.

[Patrick Hines]

With Hugh Grant and Toni Collette. Oh, it's so good. The soundtrack is so good. It's by Babbage.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Based on that movie. I'm based on that book.

[Patrick Hines]

That's right. Yes. Based on the book. And so Ashley and I loved it. And so, like, Marcus becomes friends with Hugh Grant and wants to be friends or whatever. But they have this really great phone conversation that ends with. Cause Marcus is like, do you know where we live? And, like, giving the address. And then at the end, Hugh Grant just making fun of him. Cause he's giving way too many details about the address. And then Hugh Grant goes. England, the world, the universe. Like, so good.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Hugh Grant will go on any talk show and talk about how he's just grumpy all the time.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

He's just a big old grump all the time. I don't know why I wouldn't want to, like, encounter Hugh Grant.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. I have no.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

I'm going to tell you. I said, like, two weeks before shit went down, I was like, Patti LuPone's mean. And then, like, two weeks later, like, the New Yorker article dropped. I was like, see, I told you.

[Patrick Hines]

I got. I have news for you that. I love that for you. But, like, it's not the hot.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Like, she's not a hot take. Right.

[Patrick Hines]

She's just like.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

But I was saying it to A bunch of gays who wanted to defend her. I was like, no, no girls.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, you just say she's mean. Say, I love her voice, but she's mean. Point is, I can't hear Marcus in a British accent without thinking about. About a boy. Marcus. Toni Collette, of course. Superstar in that movie.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Oh, my God, she's the best.

[Patrick Hines]

She always is.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Always.

[Patrick Hines]

So Alex shows up late to the hospital, then, get this.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

Brings Christine flowers.

[Christine Handy]

And he said, I'm going to have to rush off. I said, okay. And he said, you haven't got 20 quid on you, have you? And I went, sorry. He said, I was in such a rush to get here. He said, I ran through the corridor, picked up this bunch of flowers, and I said to the lady, I've got no cash on me at the moment. I'll bring it back in a minute. But I'm sat there thinking, I'm paying. I'm paying for my own flowers.

[Patrick Hines]

She needs to pay for her own flowers.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

She needs to pay for her own flowers.

[Patrick Hines]

Run.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Run.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Run.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, even the scam aside, he's not treating you well.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

No.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, he. He threw a fit about, like, forcing you to have this baby. Now he's not here for it, and he's just not a. He's not good to you.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

And like, she. They don't live together. And like, anybody who's had a newborn knows, like, those first 21 years are impossible, you know, and, like, to do it by yourself, like, with other children and recovering from. From having. Just from the delivery, like, and he's not around, and this was his idea. Like, oh, my God, he doesn't have a 20, and he doesn't have a 20. He's a Rothschild.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, give me 20. So Alex, like, you're saying, like, he's not around because he hasn't moved in, like, something. And that's by design. Like, something's always more important. It's always like, oh, I wish I could move in this week, but I need to go to Switzerland and not run by the bank, get my money.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

See the con, mom, while you were in Switzerland, what is going on in Switzerland? I know.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, they were a great place to have your money.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

I guess so. But, like, Switzerland, can we get it together? Like, do you see what's going on? How many documentaries have to be made about, like, people, like, ripping people off in your name before you're gonna stop being neutral about everything and just get your banking act together? Whoa.

[Patrick Hines]

I think it's a stricter now.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

In my research, it's like a little bit. You can't really do what? Because, like a Swiss. I know it's not all Swiss bank accounts, but I. Swiss. Like the term Swiss bank account used to be synonymous with, like, shady dealings. Yes, right. Offshore bank account. A Swiss bank account. So that's why we're saying that now. But apparently it's a little more strict than it used to be. But I don't know, the ins and outs.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

The world relies on good people gooding all the time. Because, like, I'm just at the point where I'm like, why can't I. Why don't I get a Swiss bank account if everyone's doing it, no one gets in trouble.

[Patrick Hines]

If it's like, good for finance.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Right? Like, don't have to pay taxes or whatever. Whatever. Like, why. Why aren't we. Let's go do that after this.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, well, speaking of Swiss bank accounts, it also reminded me of Wolf of Wall street because he's like, not being a father and I'm like, you're a father now, Jordan. A father.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

I can't wait till Daisy goes to college. I can watch movies again and then I'll know what you're talking about.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. You know Robbie the best.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Oh, she's great.

[Patrick Hines]

Father now, Jordan, a father who. Who? What are you, a fucking owl?

[Jillian Benzavalli]

I will say the lady that Margot Robbie plays in that movie is on Tik Tok and I see her like talking about stuff all the time.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Nadine is her real name.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Her name is Nadine. What a great, great name.

[Patrick Hines]

So Alex wants to change up whatever he's supposedly doing at school. He wants to change majors and of course that's going to cost him money.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So no matter what Christine asks him or there's excuses for everything, or he, like when Christine's like, well, can you call this person or can you get the money this way? No, no, no, no, no, no, no. He can never get the money.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

But this is what the baby was all about. Because he's got her so exhausted, she can't really fight with him.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

So she can't have the conversation about, you're a Rothschild, why are you. So he's asking her for another $50,000 for this new major at school.

[Christine Handy]

At that stage, I'm really tired. A baby that's less than two months old. I'm finding myself dealing with this busy life. But you just want life to be on a even keel. I just got to this stage that just wanted a quiet life. So if that's going to work for you. I loaned him the money.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

She's too tired to argue, so she does.

[Patrick Hines]

Marcus is barely two months old.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

But that's the point, right? The whole point of this kid's existence. And, Marcus, if you're listening to this, I'm so fucking sorry. I'm sure that you are amazing and wonderful and worthy. And I hate saying this out loud, but, like, this kid was created to exhaust this woman so this man could get more money out of her. That is so fucked up.

[Patrick Hines]

And because on top of that, Alex, like, Christine says, well, if it didn't work out, it was like the end of the world. And there was always this deadly urgency to everything. And I'm like, right, that's what they do. They break you down.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

I don't even believe that. She believes there's money coming to her down the road. At this point, she's just trying to get through the day.

[Patrick Hines]

At this point, she's just trying to survive.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Whatever way she can. So one day, Alex tells Christine they have to move to Geneva for some fancy new job at a fancy new bank. And I'm like, does this bank give you money or what?

[Jillian Benzavalli]

She still believes it. Enough to be excited about this. She's like, I love to travel, I love new countries. But, like, she's going to uproot her three other kids, plus Marcus now, and just move. Because this guy says so.

[Patrick Hines]

Because he tells Christine to sell her house. And I'm like, is there another house? Or she's just selling her house with these four kids?

[Jillian Benzavalli]

And, like, all I can think about is, like, christine, honey, this is all the money you have in the world. Like, you put everything into this house. You paid cash for it. And, like, you've already given this guy $75,000 plus another 50,000, plus who knows what else. Plus you bore a child for him.

[Patrick Hines]

And your life and your sanity and your peace.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Nothing is worth that.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

No.

[Patrick Hines]

So Christ has £400,000 because she sells the house.

[Christine Handy]

Got Alexander saying, well, I can help you invest that through a friend of mine. So I gave him £130,000 to invest on my behalf.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

She gives him $130,000 to invest. I hope that she held onto the rest of it, but she gives him $130,000, no questions asked. You know, like, let me look at the. The. Let me look at the online so I can see where my money is going.

[Patrick Hines]

But he's the financial consultant. This is what he does. His family does this.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

I know. I mean, you like Steve Manages all of our money. But I look at all of this shit all the time. Like I. You know what I mean? Like, I. My joke used to be I didn't know where our money was. Well, guess what? I know where our money is now. Because I've been doing this long enough to know. You got to know.

[Patrick Hines]

You got to know.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Of course.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So eight weeks later, Christine sees a brand new BMW parked outside Alex's house.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Now, wait, I want to slow down on this for a second because she says, I was driving by Alex's house and I saw a brand new BMW. What she is not saying is she is snooping. Like, BMW. Good for her. I couldn't agree more. But I want her to be honest with us. Yeah, she's starting to feel like there's not like something's going on here. Is there another woman? Is there another family? Like, what's the deal? She's not just casually driving by his house. She's stupid. Good for her. I love it.

[Patrick Hines]

Marcus is three months old and this piece of shit is never around. So where are you? If you're not being a father. A father now, Jordan, then where are you?

[Jillian Benzavalli]

I shot the clerk.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, where are you now?

[Jillian Benzavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

It's so good, right?

[Jillian Benzavalli]

No, all I'm saying is we're scooting past the fact that she's, like, snoopish, which I love, but she sees this brand new BMW. She asks him about it. He says, oh, it was given to me by that Swiss bank to avoid paying taxes. Whatever it is, it's the company car.

[Christine Handy]

And I thought it was odd. And I said, well, why didn't you mention it? Well, I just thought you'd be cross. He hated me questioning him. Sometimes he storm out.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

So he picks a fight with her and storms out, right?

[Patrick Hines]

So then, you know, then they'd make up. And the flowers, the same old shit.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

And my note here is like, people question your partners, especially when they've got all the money and you don't see anything. Like, the reason she was a good mark for him was because she's so swee and kind and lovely and passive. And he knew that she wouldn't question him.

[Patrick Hines]

You know, and then when she did, she was made to feel like shit about it. When all of these questions are completely valid.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Totally valid.

[Patrick Hines]

Travel down the road. Back again, girl.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

This message is sponsored by greenlight.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. So do you remember Summertime as a kid?

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Oh, do I ever. The Goonies of it all.

[Patrick Hines]

Exactly that.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yes, exactly that.

[Patrick Hines]

So summer used to Be different where all these kids were like, out until the street lights out came, came home. Yeah. I think a lot of kids are like, inside as iPad kids now. This feels like the perfect time to teach your kids real world money skills that they'll actually use.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

So that's the thing. Greenlight is a debit card and money app made for families that helps kids learn how to save, invest and spend wisely. And let me tell you, we use this with Daisy every week. I always talk about this. It's got a chores feature. We set it up so that she does her chores. It pays her automatically. On Friday afternoon. We sit down, we open the app, we see how much money she's got saved and we talk about like, does she want to continue to save? What are her goals? And then we decide how much money she's going to spend for the weekend.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And you can customize that to your household.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So you can reward kids with their allowance for a job well done or like whatever you need.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yeah. I was never given any financial training as a kid ever. And it's the thing I didn't have that I wish I had had the most. And I feel very proud to be able to like, start talking about money and finances and understanding the importance of saving and spending with my daughter. I love Green Light. I'm very grateful.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Because they're also like not teaching it in school either. Like, I would have loved to have learned all of this stuff that it's like, it doesn't feel scary when you're an adult. It's like teaching them good habits now.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

100% fam. Greenlight is the easy, convenient way for parents to raise financially smart kids and families to navigate life together.

[Patrick Hines]

Maybe that's why millions of parents trust and kids love learning about money on Greenlight, the number one family finance and safety app.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

So don't wait to teach your kids real world money skills. Start your risk free greenlight trial [e-mail].

[Patrick Hines]

TCO that's greenlight.com TCO to get started.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Greenlight.com TCO Girl Hydro is back. Hydro is that full body workout of a rowing machine. Can I tell you a story?

[Patrick Hines]

Please.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

So they sent us one last year when we started working with them. We put it in our buildings gym. This morning I was on the treadmill. Somebody who lives in my hall came in, got on the hydro. He says he's been using the hydro every single day because he hurt his back from running. He discovered rowing using the hydro app and he does these rows because the Whole thing with hydro is that you can take rows guided by like Olympians. You can do them on the Charles river in Boston or you could do it in the river in London. Whatever, whatever that one is called.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

And he was doing a 6,000 meter row on that London river this morning.

[Patrick Hines]

Whoa.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

And he was. So I was like, I use it all the time too. Hydro is the best.

[Patrick Hines]

Here's the thing about hydro. You're hitting 86% of your muscles in one session.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

You could do it in about 20 minutes just to get that full body workout. And it's also like low impact. So if you have an injury it still gives you a mix of strength and cardio.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

You can really see results.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

You really see results. And there's such a wide range of things you can do. You can do like Olympic level. You can do guided. You can do not guided. They can play the music for you. You can play your own music. It really such an awesome piece of equipment. I'm obsessed with.

[Patrick Hines]

And if you're someone who's like, I need something visually beautiful and distracting for these 20 minutes and you're not looking.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

At a picture of me.

[Patrick Hines]

Exactly.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Something else.

[Patrick Hines]

They have these like beautiful places all over the world.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

It's true.

[Patrick Hines]

They also offer free shipping, a 30 day risk free trial and a one year warranty so you don't feel locked in. Like you can try it out first and see if it works for you.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Exactly. So fam, skip the gym, not the workout. Stay on track with hydro for a limited time.

[Patrick Hines]

Go to hydro.com and use code TCO to save up to $450 off your Hydro Pro Rower.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

That's H Y-R-O-W.com code TCO to save up to 450 bucks.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Hydro.com code TCO.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

I love skip the gym, not the workout.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm into it and it's only 20 minutes. Honestly, I know I'm still going to be counting the seconds but I'll take it. 20 minutes. So Christina's met some of this guy's family, but not all of them.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So she met his mother, she met his family sisters. She has not met his older brother because Alex doesn't get along with him. Because Alex hates the sister in law. I'm like, we got to meet the sister in law. She's, she knows the truth.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Diane, where? Get in here.

[Patrick Hines]

Diane, where are you girl?

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So they eventually all meet and the brother who Alex says he doesn't get along with and the sister in law the brother was like a little cool to Christine.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

But the sister in law, oh my God, lovely. And they get along very well. And I'm like, talk to the sister in law. She knows.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

And so it happens. July 2006, they're three years into the relationship and Christine tells us she invited the sister in law to her house.

[Patrick Hines]

For coffee and they're becoming friends and Alex hates it.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Guess who's got all the time in the world that day to show up for the coffee date that he wasn't fucking invited to.

[Patrick Hines]

Where were you at the birth of your son? Nowhere to be found. But now, oh, the two women are starting to talk and ask some questions and get some information. Then he can't handle it.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

And Chrissy's like, it was so weird that Alex was there, but whatever. So then Chrissy invites the sister in law back a few weeks later and Alex is pissed.

[Patrick Hines]

And so Christine tells the sister in.

[Christine Handy]

Law, I rang her and I said, Alexander's really not happy that we're spending time together. And she said, well that'll probably because I know too much and I hope you're not financially involved with him.

[Patrick Hines]

I hope you're not financially involved with him.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

And then she goes, and when I heard that, my heart just sunk.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. And I'm sure, I don't know, we don't get the details of it, but I'm thinking it sounds a little bit like the sister in law was like, hey girl, what are you doing today to like get Christine alone and warm her. Like, he doesn't like me because I called him on his and just so you know, like get into those bank accounts, like figure something out because he's going to take you down.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So financially, like that can destroy you.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

I mean, and it's like, like if you know somebody who is conning somebody, you owe it to that, you owe.

[Patrick Hines]

It to the world.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

It'll be paid back to you 100%, I promise. Of course you got to tell these people that they're going to, their lives are about to be ruined.

[Patrick Hines]

And so that the sister in law, I don't think knows the half of it, right. She just knows that like he's a liar and a con man just with money, not knowing anything else.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Right. And so Christina's like at her finances, she says like the three times she's given him money, 130 grand, 75 grand and 50 grand. And she says, and there was more on top of that. And so the sister in law says to her, if you think he's A Rothschild, then my husband is Mickey Mouse.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, you got another thing coming, sister in law. You got another thing coming. And she says, well, he takes the credit cards out in his brother's name. That's why the sister in law hates him.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Not the other way around. Alex wanted to keep Christine away from the brother and sister in law, but the real reason is because he's using his brother's name.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

And the brother and sister in law are on top of his shit, and they know what he's doing, and so they want him away from Christine.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

And I just don't understand how these people get away with this for so long. Why is this guy not in prison? You took out credit cards in your brother's name. That's credit card fraud.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And it's just like, what's the protocol here? When we're all, like, at the barbecue.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Or we're all at the mom's house for dinner and everyone knows what's going on.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Like when? Like, don't you just like. And it was to the bathroom and say, girl.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

It's also early days of the Internet. Like, this was 2006. It's pre Google. And I'm like, I feel like. Like you just make websites about these people. You know what I mean? Like that, like, people like, you just got to get it. You got to get it out there.

[Patrick Hines]

And I'm sure they didn't think it was that bad. Like, oh, he's a liar. He's going to steal her money. I don't think they KNEW it was $250,000. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. But we aren't told that well.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

And also Christina's like, I was panicking, and I sat with this information for two days. And that really made me think, like, they go long stretches without seeing each other. He is the father of her child. And they go long stretches, touches without even speaking.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. By design.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So she's like, oh, my God. She finally puts it all together. The hard reality is hitting her. She's devastated, she's in shock. And she's like, I'm financially ruined.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So she goes to confront Alex.

[Christine Handy]

I said, I want some money. It's as simple as that. You need to return some of my money. He just looked at me and the mask just drops. And he screamed in my face, fuck off, bitch.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

The mask just dropped. Like, the real monster came out.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, that will always happen.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

With these cons, big, small money, not money, whatever. There's always a moment where you're like, oh, there you are.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

There you are.

[Patrick Hines]

In Hook, they say, oh, there you are, Peter. And it was cute. And it makes you cry because it's Peter Pan and Robin Williams. But usually in moments like this, you're like, oh, got it. And usually that will wake you up in a sense where you're like, here's what I have to do. I have to get a plan. And that's what happens with Christine.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Thank the Lord.

[Patrick Hines]

So a few weeks later. Cause Christine is stunned, but she's like, get your shit together. Me, my money, or else.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And then a few weeks go by, which seems like a very long time. For what? For the exchange they just had.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

And also for him to not see his own child. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Because he doesn't care.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

He doesn't care.

[Patrick Hines]

He doesn't care. So it's like, a few weeks later, Alex calls Christine and is like, I have to leave the country. It's the. I'm totally going to get your money. Don't worry about it. But the only way I can get it is if I leave the country. So why don't you go live with your ex husband until this all blows over? I'm like, until what blows over?

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Why don't you go take our baby and go live with your ex husband?

[Patrick Hines]

I'd be like, come on in. We need to have a conversation. Conversation. Totally. We need to make a plan here. Because you're not just going to stay here and continue to live like this and be like, you need help.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

100.

[Patrick Hines]

You need help.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

And remember, we learned in con mom, like, there's a way in England that you can get people, like, declared, like, financially vulnerable or whatever.

[Patrick Hines]

So Christine is like, okay, enough. I'm going to the cops.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

That was all she needed. She's had it. So she files a report, and she's like, you know, nothing's going to change. It was. She said it felt like an initial meeting. She's just kind of starting the paper trail.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So by November 2006, this has been going on for three and a half years. It's almost Christmas. She has no money. She's in a bad place. She keeps getting asked out. She's like, God, no. Never again.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Until Philip comes along.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yeah. Philip is an. I was trying to understand this. Philip is an author selling books in, like, his own books, selling them downtown somewhere.

[Patrick Hines]

But he's also like. Her friends convince her to go for a drink with another investment banker. And I'm like, no, I know, but wait a second.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Philip is a children's book author slash investment banker who's working during the day, selling his own books, and asking her out for, like, a midday.

[Patrick Hines]

I definitely thought, this is scam number two.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

One million percent.

[Patrick Hines]

And, like, it felt like her friend. I'm like, girl, you're up.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Can you imagine if it happened again?

[Patrick Hines]

Well, wait till we get to. Hey, beautiful. Just you wait. So it's a good thing, everyone. I'll just. I'll. I'll, like, calm your fears. Now. I thought this was scam number two or he knew Alex or whatever. No, no, no. Philip is a good guy. He's great against all odds. He's a good one.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Totally. They meet in a pub, like, some afternoon, and he, like, that's where he tells her that he worked in investment banking. I wrote Run. But then the difference between Philip and Alex is, like, Philip wants to know about her, wants to get to know her. And, like, not in a creepy, scammy.

[Patrick Hines]

Way, but also because Philip is actually in this world. He's asking all the right questions about this guy that scammed her out of $500,000 or whatever, and he. In two seconds, he's like, this guy's a fraud. How can I help? Like, this is crazy. This is horrible that he did this to you. You have four children. Like, come on.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

So by New Year's Eve, two things are happening. One, Phil and Christine are spending a lot of time together.

[Christine Handy]

And two, New Year's Eve, Philip came over and. And we decided that we would go full pelt and investigate, do whatever it took to bring Alexander to justice.

[Patrick Hines]

They're gonna work together to take down Alex.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yeah. Which is so, like, I love the idea that they're gonna track this son of a bitch down.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, they're gonna get him.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

They're gonna find him.

[Patrick Hines]

We're getting him.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So now she has a lawyer. And the lawyer tells Christine file for Alexander's bankruptcy, force him to go to court, and that way you can ask. Ask questions this confused.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Like, you can file for somebody else's bankruptcy.

[Patrick Hines]

I guess because. I guess in the uk, I don't know, but I guess because she had given him money or, like, I think it's a way for her to, like, demand the receipts for where all this money went.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yes. I guess because they were married or they weren't married.

[Patrick Hines]

They were not married, but they're, like, large sums of money, right?

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So I guess she has a right.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

The laws over there, in my estimation, are better.

[Patrick Hines]

Whatever. The lawyer said she could do it, right? Whatever.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

So.

[Patrick Hines]

Because the point is, if Christine can prove that he used her money to buy the new BMW, that car belongs thanks to her.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Oh, my God, this was incredible. So she does. She was able to figure out that, like, it was he. The money. Remember when she gave him the 130k?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

To invest. That's what he used to buy the Beamer. Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Within. Within a day and a half. He's got a new car.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Exactly. Exactly. So Chrissy and Philip drive around looking for the car. Alexander's gone into hiding. They hire a private investigator. This PI finds this car in 40 minutes.

[Patrick Hines]

40 minutes. The car is around the corner from where? His mother's house, of course.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Exactly.

[Christine Handy]

And then the tow truck had come up. I got it on the back of the truck and we drove away. I was able to sell it and recoup £35,000.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

They find the car, they take it.

[Patrick Hines]

They take it.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

I was trying to imagine the scene where Alex goes out to, like, boop, boop. Yeah. The Beamer.

[Patrick Hines]

The Beamer.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

And it's gone. And I'm like, he can't even report it stolen because it's not his.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. It's not his. So Christine gets about £35,000 back, and I'm like, great, only 225,000 more to go. I know, but we're chipping away.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

I know. Sorry. I just. I'm really enjoying pictures. Picturing the look on his face when the Beamer's gone. Where's. Wait, what?

[Patrick Hines]

What? Like, where'd you tell Mommy you got the car from?

[Jillian Benzavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Where'd you tell her?

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Mommy puts it in your mouth.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, please. That's from con mom. So disgusting. So Christine and Philip are now dating because this whole thing really brought them together.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

I love it.

[Patrick Hines]

They're going through all the finances. They're tracking down where all the money's going. Like, he's going to the pub, he's buying designer clothes. He's doing everything but taking care of his kid. Or being a partner to Christine. Or, like, being a decent human, he's.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Spending 30 grand at Ralph Lauren. Like, tell me you're basic bitch.

[Patrick Hines]

I know. And like, it's.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

And unless you love it and you're listening to this, in which case you're awesome, fine.

[Patrick Hines]

But you're not a scammer. You're not this guy.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Unless you are, in which case turn us off. You're not invited to listen to us.

[Patrick Hines]

No, I've told you a million times, I don't want you listening.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Casey Anthony, turn this off right now. Turn it off right now.

[Patrick Hines]

That name just hit me like a bullet. I was not expecting to have to discuss Casey Anthony today.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Have you seen the TikTok where I.

[Patrick Hines]

Saw one and said, not interested.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

No, not her. There was a TikTok that went viral that was like this guy who brings a date to, like a dinner party. And it's Casey Anthony, but it's not really. It's not real. But all the friends have to, like, bring him into the. Is that Casey Anthony at my house?

[Patrick Hines]

No, I would. No, she would be.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Can you imagine?

[Patrick Hines]

She'd be removed from my home. Post. As. And as. Would that person say, post, post? Did I use it right? I don't know.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

It's great.

[Patrick Hines]

How would you get her out and the quote, friend? Yeah, I would push her out of my home.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Would you literally drop kick her down the hallway?

[Patrick Hines]

I don't. I don't know how to do that. Ideally, in my fantasy world, sure.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Okay.

[Patrick Hines]

You know, but I would just. I would would just say, like, right this way, like, and get her the fuck out.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

You would remove the cocktail that Mike had made, like, specifically for the guests before.

[Patrick Hines]

Because he likes to do it, like, have everything chilled before they arrive. So that when you walk in, it's like. So he wouldn't know that it was her.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

That's what I mean.

[Patrick Hines]

Or I'd be like, fiona, go get her. Fiona would be like, what? I'm like, not an attack dog, but that bark is very ferocious. So I don't know, I would just say, like, you need to leave. And this friend I thought you were to meet, like, now you're not. Goodbye.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Get out of here, Lin Manuel Miranda. Get out.

[Patrick Hines]

Imagine. He would never. Can you imagine, Lyn Miranda? Oh, my God. I'd be like, it's over.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

That's the weirdest dinner party. Like, you, Mike, Lin Manuel Miranda and his date Casey.

[Patrick Hines]

I'd be like, where's Vanessa? Why are you bringing this to my home?

[Jillian Benzavalli]

This is like, hear me out.

[Patrick Hines]

Are you all right? Home? Like, are you okay? Home. Home. Merry Christmas, you old Building and Loan.

[Christine Handy]

I'm home.

[Patrick Hines]

So Katherine Knight is a journalist, and she explains that in three years, this guy took £600,000 from Christine.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

I can't stop thinking about that dinner party.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, she probably wouldn't leave. She'd probably be like, but. And then I'd really. Then I'd have to be like, you.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

And Mike and Linamo Miranda and Casey Anthony.

[Patrick Hines]

I would never again. That's like a dream you had last night, and now you're projecting and projecting.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

You know, it's time to take the coat off. I'm finally warm.

[Patrick Hines]

It's about time.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

I'm finally warm.

[Patrick Hines]

I wish I knew how to drop kick.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

Because I would drop kick her. I'm home. Are you gonna listen to in the Heights later?

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Christine Handy]

I'm home.

[Patrick Hines]

Travel down the road. Back again, girl.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Helix is back. Look. This is that amazing mattress. We both have one. You know this. I've been traveling a lot. I've been sleeping in hotel beds a lot over the last couple of months. I am always so excited to get home to my Helix mattress. It's like a warm bath.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. They always say, like, there's nothing like sleeping in your own bed. It's really true now, like, double that. When you have a Helix mattress.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

100%.

[Patrick Hines]

And I'm, like, a difficult sleeper.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, I kind of need a lot to have a restful sleep. Like, I used to toss and turn a lot. I'm big about temperature. Like, I'm kind of a hot sleeper. And so with Helix, I have the midnight lux.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And it takes care of all of that.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Well, you got matched with it because they've got this, like, two minute online sleep quiz. You literally go in there. But if you're sleeping alone, you do it by yourself. You've got a partner. You don't even have to have the same sleep preferences. You just. You both say what you like, and they tell you the mattress that is perfect for you. I was very skeptical of this.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

But both Steve and I love our mattress, and we're not the same person. If you didn't know.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. It's been, like, such an upgrade.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Too. Because I, like, I remember what it was like to wake up, obviously, like, knowing I didn't rest the night before.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

We have people staying in our apartment, and they sent us a picture of them pulling the sheet up at the foot of the bed so they could see which kind of Helix mattress.

[Patrick Hines]

So they can order it.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

So they could literally order it. How funny is that?

[Patrick Hines]

I love it.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

So, fam. Get in on the heel. Go to helixsleep.com TCO for 27% off site wide.

[Patrick Hines]

That's helixsleep.com TCO For 27% off site wide.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Do it. Go do it. Now. You're gonna thank us.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Helixsleep.com TCO that's it. And I like the midnight luxe. You know, find what's good for you. But I swear by it. So Christine needs more information on Alex. So she barters with A journalist. And she's like, look. She asked him if he'd be willing to do some research for her if she's, in turn was willing to give him her story. He duly did some research and uncovered a completely fascinating article from the daily mail in 1994.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

I got a great story. If you do the research, I'll give you the story. And the journalist is.

[Patrick Hines]

I'll give you the exclusive. It's a great deal. It's really. It's like, a very smart way to handle this. She's like, I'll tell you everything, but you do it because it really. She's done enough.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Totally. And, like, I. I don't know exactly when Google launched, but this was, like, before we really knew how to, like, use the search engines to, like, find.

[Patrick Hines]

I got news for you. A lot of today, people still don't know how to use Truly Lose Free.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Everyone I know remember, like, Ask Jeeves and Dogpile. Like, like, that's what she's dogpiling. Alexander Pile.

[Patrick Hines]

What? Even, like, what was the.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

I'm sorry, you were probably, like, in preschool. But, like, Dogpile was like. It was like the pre. It was like, Ask Jeeves Dog name of it.

[Patrick Hines]

But I never use it. But, like, what a stupid name.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

I Ask Jeeves. We're, like, asking that in Parks and Records. Like, you ask a butler to Google things for you.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

You literally. Because you would put it into Ask Jeez. Then you see the butler run off to, like, find the information. I know.

[Patrick Hines]

That's. Hey, everyone. When you ask a question that's easily Googleable, the person you're asking feels like, Jeeves.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Google it yourself.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

100%.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, Google it yourself.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Google yourself. But the point is, she didn't have that at her disposal, so I'm glad that she had this, like, researcher to do this for her.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. So there's an article from the Daily Mail, which we hate, but it's from 1994 and it has some information.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

We've been in the Daily Mail. They said nice things about us. They like our podcast, but we hate them. I'm just saying we've been there. But, yeah, but, like, this is my question is that, like, it feels like this. This journalist found this article as quickly as the PI found the car, like, 40 minutes. So, like, I know that, like, the practice of Googling people that you're dating, like, it was new back then, but, like, there was information about this guy out there in the world that could have been found.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

And so, like, in this article, we.

[Christine Handy]

Learn it said he'd been arrested in Finland for leaving behind business debts and thousands of unpaid hotel bills. He'd used the Rothschild name to get the backing of the Albanian government to run a huge development. And he convinced investors to put tens of thousands into the project.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

And had convinced investors to put tens of thousands of dollars into the project. Like in Albania.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, here's the thing. It didn't end too well for him because the Albanians called the Rothschilds, just called them and they're like, who?

[Jillian Benzavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

No, we don't. I don't. And they did.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

The Rothschild did the 1994 east thing. They took out a full page ad.

[Patrick Hines]

The Sultan of Brunei did that with Con Mum to be like, we don't know her. Like, don't know.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

They take out a full page ad in. What's the publication?

[Patrick Hines]

I don't know. In the Financial Times.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

In the Financial Times would be like, we don't know her.

[Patrick Hines]

Distancing.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

We don't know. We learned that his name is not Alexander Mark Adolphus, Nathaniel d' Archy and de Rothschild Hatton. It's just Mark Hatton.

[Patrick Hines]

It's just Mark Hatton. But everyone calls him Alexander. So we're going to call him Alexander. But his name is Mark.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yes, but the point is, as far back as 1994, people have been debunking his shit.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

And this is like 2006 now.

[Patrick Hines]

So now we're actually in 2008, January 2008, four and a half years. And Christine makes a website about him warning others and asking people to contact her.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Now this, I think to this day is the smartest thing you can do. If you get conned or swindled, make a fucking website.

[Patrick Hines]

Or like make a TikTok page about it, you know what I mean?

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Like make something that's googleable. So when, like when somebody google. Because people will. And if you're not, you should be at this point, there's no excuse. 2025, you Google everybody you meet in your life.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. You just, you gotta wait till we get to. Hey, beautiful. Because there's like, we learn about like this website network about people like, oh my God, just like shaming the scammers and outing them.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Oh, good.

[Patrick Hines]

It's like a hu resource. Started where the uk.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

So where you can declare bankruptcy for other people.

[Patrick Hines]

Great.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

I love the uk, right?

[Patrick Hines]

This guy emails her. His name is also Philip.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

So yeah, like it was confusing for me for just a second.

[Patrick Hines]

So different Philip.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

But he emails her on the website. So like this is working. We're Finding people that were scammed by Alexander.

[Patrick Hines]

And he says, 10 years ago, like, I was scammed by this guy and this Alexander. They were, like, business partners and the same shit, right? Alex, like, promised all this money.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

It was also just like this guy Philip. They were business partners. Partners in the sense that Philip had a normal job at a retail company and Alex was a customer. And Philip loses his job and gets, like, a small severance package. And Alex is like, let's go into business together. I'm the Sultan of Brunei's ex kid or whatever.

[Patrick Hines]

I just put everything on your credit card, Phil.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

It was down to myself, who had.

[Patrick Hines]

A redundancy package and a credit card.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

And we were bumping along with that.

[Patrick Hines]

And also, I actually obtained funds from friends to help us set up. And he said, it will all be.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Refunded for you double. Don't worry.

[Patrick Hines]

But that never happened.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

And then Alex runs off into the night with all the money, and it's just. It's so, like, they're not scamming people who have money to spare is the thing that makes me crazy.

[Patrick Hines]

It's like it adds to the cruelty of it.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And so because Phil, this Phil, gets a look at some of the finances, and it's, like, very obvious that Alex was doctoring the documents and Photoshopping, however you Photoshop the 1994.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Scotch tape.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

I was like, chilean will understand this part. I don't know what's going on.

[Patrick Hines]

So. But Alex is eventually arrested for what he was doing with this film 10 years ago.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So 10 years ago in 2008. So, like, in the 90s, right? Yes. So he was eventually arrested and charged with theft, and he was found guilty of four counts of theft, one count of false accounting, I guess, for, like, doctoring the documents, and one count of contempt of court. So he gets sent, Oh, I was.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Like, I want more on that. Like, did he scream at the judge? I want to know what he did.

[Patrick Hines]

He didn't show up. Or he tried to, like, scam the.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Judge, or he, like, turned down a sidebar.

[Patrick Hines]

Sidebar. Sidebar. That's Bev.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

I love when she's like, enough with your shenanigans.

[Patrick Hines]

Sidebar.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

I know why, fam. We're very invested in the Karen Reed trial right now. Very invested.

[Patrick Hines]

What a fucking monstrosity this whole thing is. Jesus Christ. What a mess. Like, but that's Bev. That's the judge, if you don't know. Everyone just sighing for Jesus.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

What a monster.

[Patrick Hines]

Is it 2:30? Can I call it? I know she insists everyone we're all on time. I know, but she's can't wait to get the hell out of there.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Oh, my God. Well, he gets 18 months in prison. Like this guy served prison time. But like in the pre Internet days when he met Christine, like you could get away with this shit, like time and time and time again.

[Patrick Hines]

And it was like a small enough charge, you know, like, considering. So Christine and this Philip, now the two Phillips and Christine are all working together, you know.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

And Christine says it was really lovely to meet him because we understood each other because we had a shared experience. She's like, when you are a person who's been the victim of a con artist, people will often look at you and be like, how did you fall for this? Like, and. And she's saying that, like, when I met Philip, he'd been through it too, and he got it totally, you know, And I know that I'm. I'm being a little hard. I understand why she fell for it. It is not her fault.

[Patrick Hines]

It's always a slow burn. I just never.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

My whole thing is like we're sitting in this booth for 90 minutes screaming @ each other. I want people to get something out of this. Like, it's okay to question people. And like, especially at the beginning of a relationship. And if you really want the relationship, it can feel so unsafe to question or you're gonna feel rude, or the person's not gonna like you anymore. You gotta protect yourself.

[Patrick Hines]

You gotta be okay with being disliked.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

I. Oh, it's fine. Oh, God.

[Patrick Hines]

It's really fine.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Oh, jeez.

[Patrick Hines]

It's really okay. It doesn't matter.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Oh, high school me did not like that.

[Patrick Hines]

It doesn't matter.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Therapy me is better about it.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

But like, by who? Some guy who tried to buy you a drink?

[Jillian Benzavalli]

By. I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Who cares?

[Jillian Benzavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Hate me for the rest of your life. Great. I don't think about you at all.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Amazing what you made me do.

[Patrick Hines]

Bye. Like, you can hate me. Have fun. I'm living my life. Bye.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

But it is hard. Like, Google everybody. Don't trust everybody right away. Keep your personal shit to yourself as long as you can.

[Patrick Hines]

Right? And then, like, you know, we see it even back then and now, like, then she's like too far gone, you know, like, that's how they get you.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So now we're gonna take a turn because this guy isn't just scamming people.

[Christine Handy]

The cops tell Christine, before your case takes off. We've already had another complaint in of A sexual nature to a minor.

[Patrick Hines]

So this guy's a fucking predator on top of all of this, He's a sexual predator.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

And okay, they don't give us much information about this. And I can't decide if that's for better or for worse, but like, it feels like I suddenly. Chrissy, I love you and I'm sorry you went through this, but I don't care anymore. Like, this guy needs to burn like this. Like. And it's like we learn about one instance here. There are many, many, many more. And rapes of adults as well.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, he's like a horrifying monster.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Like, that's the monstro.

[Patrick Hines]

Christine starts getting more emails from the United States. So she gets three more emails from her website from the same family.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Now this family is saying like, oh my God, thank God we found your website. This guy lives with my mother. What do we do?

[Patrick Hines]

Right?

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Because you can you see it that like these three kids know they can see what's going on, but the mom cannot in the way that like Heather and the pastry chef from Con mom, she could see it, he could not. And they are desperate for like, how do we break the spell for my mother?

[Patrick Hines]

So now we know where he is. He's in upstate New York.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

He's in Mount Kisco. And I love that Chris is like, it seem a cute little town just north of New York City.

[Patrick Hines]

Guess what? She wants to go there. So I know where he is. But it's complicated because now they have to extradite him to the UK and it's a ton of work and they can't guarantee that he will still be at that address by the time everything goes through.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So the UK cops say no.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

I know we've loved the UK cops up until now, but it's kind of like that. They're like, they basically are saying it's too much work we're not going to do.

[Patrick Hines]

So Christine and her Phillips are like.

[Christine Handy]

So if we went over to New York and we found him and had him deported, how would that work for you? And the detective just laughed. And she said, oh, you'd be handing him to us on a plate. And without a bat of an eyelid, Philip was booking tickets.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

The cops are in full support. When they're like, if we go and get him ourselves, they're like, you'll save us a ton of money.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Like, this guy is a dangerous, dangerous, dangerous man.

[Patrick Hines]

Right? So they call Gil Alba, former New York City Police Department, current private eye.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

I love this guy.

[Patrick Hines]

And they give him the Address they have for Alexander, and he goes there right away. Sits on the house for like 24 hours. Now, the PI and Christine and her two Phillips follow this piece of shit to the gym the next morning.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Because, like, Phil the PI meets them at the airport. They're like, we got him. We got to go now.

[Patrick Hines]

Right?

[Jillian Benzavalli]

So they're going to follow him to the gym. What is this guy doing at the gym?

[Patrick Hines]

Nothing. A whole lot of nothing. So they're going to confront Alex at the gym. So they all post up in the parking lot, wait for Alex. Christine goes, there he is in his little pink shorts. Can you imagine, though, you're Alex, you're upstate New York, thinking you got away with it, and Christine from the UK is parking lot. Like, what a mind fuck. Good.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

I know. And like, we pictures of him in this moment, and he looks surprised and he looks angry.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm sure he was more surprised than he's ever been in a million percent.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Like, you think that these people are just dead. They're gone to you.

[Patrick Hines]

So Alex and Christine walk towards each other in the parking lot and she confronts him.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

He says, don't do this to me, Chrissy.

[Patrick Hines]

And then she goes. And then he starts to scuttle off back to the gym. Like, what? So Christine's like, okay, we got him. Like, now what? Like, now what do we do? Yeah, Christine has to go go to the state police and explain everything that's going on and then tell the New York State Police, the British police would like a word with Alex. And Christine's like, so that's what we did.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

And they do it. They also talk to the FBI and ins, and they go back to the hotel and they're like, this has got it. Like talking to Nancy from Scamanda.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Like when you just. You've given all the information, but you have no idea if they're going to use it or.

[Patrick Hines]

As we learned, the wheels of justice moves very slowly.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

And so, like. So Christine and Philip go back to their hotel that night. They're getting on a plane. The next morning, 5am, the phone rings in their hotel room. It's one of the kids from the website. And they're like, my God, the FBI and INS was just here. Like, they fucking got him.

[Patrick Hines]

The moment he stepped off the plane, he was greeted by a number of police officers from Gloucestershire Police, who promptly arrested him and charged him with fraud. And in the months that followed, he was subsequently charged with four counts of rape and. And three counts of sexual assault of.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

A minor, in addition to, like, all of the financial crimes. He's charged with four counts of rape and three counts of sexual assault of a minor.

[Patrick Hines]

And also. Are her kids okay?

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

He never touched them. We don't hear about that. So I know they don't tell us any whatever. Like they, we don't, we just don't know about that.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

The sexual crimes are not a part of this documentary really at all. We get kind of all of it on like on screen text. It's very, very upsetting.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. So In February of 2010, the trial starts. There's tons of media. Christine is there, she testified, she tells her story. He is guilty. Seven counts of quote, obtaining money transfers by deception. Which is like lots of words.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

And prior to this he was convicted of but not sentenced for his sex crimes.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

So he's being sentenced all at once.

[Patrick Hines]

The fraud and the rapes and the assaults.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

So he's sentenced to 18 years in prison, three years for the fraud and 15 years for sexual offenses. Which I believe in Britain is a very hefty. Yeah, like they don't sentence the way that we do.

[Patrick Hines]

So he's bankrupt, he's a convicted sex offender on the list and he's got away for 18 years. And now we meet Marcus.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

So Marcus is the son of Alexander. And Christine and I gasped when he sat down cuz I was like, do we really need to do this to him? Do we really need to put him in front of the camera?

[Patrick Hines]

But based on what he says, like he wanted to do it.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yeah. And I, I get that. I just. These kids, he's still a kid. He looks like he's 10, 12 years old. Like he's so young looking. And he said obviously I always sort of knew that my dad wasn't like a.

[Christine Handy]

And then I think it was around.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

The age of like five or six that I sort of learned that he'd.

[Christine Handy]

Like taken a lot of money off my mum. It was around the time I was 10, was when I found out everything.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

And when he was about 10, he learned everything.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

And because he said to his mom, like he knew his mom, he knew his dad was in prison for 18 years and he thought it was just for the fraud. And he says to his mom that 18 years seems like a lot of time for fraud. And that's when the mom, I mean when he's 10 years old, she says, and I, I understand this as like a parent of an adopted kid. Like when they ask the question seems to be the right time to give the answer. And she says all I could do was answer the questions. But she tells him about the sex crimes.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

And even now, like he says, in that moment he became despondent. He was like outside of himself right now telling us that information. He seems. Because I don't know how when you are the product of that, of a person who is like that, how you can't wonder if there's that in you too.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

And what I'm saying is, I'm sure there isn't. Marcus, I'm sure you're perfect and wonderful, but as a kid, you must grapple with thoughts like that.

[Patrick Hines]

And Marcus, you know, kind of says as much and says that like Marcus and Christine and her kids are just navigating this all in the best possible way they can. You know, they're doing their best. They have each other. They're trying to keep it in the past. They do what they can do.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

You know, like big things, small things, every, you know, like on a day to day aspect. And also in the much bigger picture, like, yeah, you know, they're trying to move on from this monster who was in their lives for a little bit. They're just trying to get better.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Life wrecker.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, life wrecker. Like, and like, they're all really close, so it got them closer together. And Marcus is like super protective of his mom and just wants her to like, have this great life.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

And I love that. The other two kids clearly wanted nothing to do with the documentary and so did not participate.

[Patrick Hines]

Fair enough. Yeah, fair enough.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So, yeah, we got the guy.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

We got him.

[Patrick Hines]

We had. She came to New York to do it.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

I know Mount Kisco.

[Patrick Hines]

There he goes in his little pink shorts. She said, see, she had some great singers in this.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

It's true.

[Patrick Hines]

It was great.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Oh, great girl. We did. What's it called?

[Patrick Hines]

Manhunt, the liar, the thief, the con man.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

My friend Tom texted me the other day. He's like, have you ever known the name at the end? I'm like, I don't. But somehow you always do. I don't know how. Oh, at the end.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Oh, you're so smart.

[Patrick Hines]

And the name of my the doc is Manhunt. The liar, the thief, the Conan. I just name it. Now that you're in Google Docs, you.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Know, I can do it now, fam. Don't forget, join the Facebook group. It's the true crime obsessed podcast discussion group. Join us on the Patreon, but only if you want like 500 full ad free bonus episodes and drag bin every month and drag bingo. And I'll send you stuff in the mail. Me. All of us will send you stuff in the mail. Ad free apps. Only if you want that.

[Patrick Hines]

Only if you want it. Only if you're interested in that kind of thing.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

What are we doing next?

[Patrick Hines]

We are doing worst ex ever. Episode 4 Married to a Monster this is the last of the worst ex ever.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

I feel like they're all monsters.

[Patrick Hines]

They are.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Okay, great.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, yeah.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So it's not just a clever name.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Okay.

[Patrick Hines]

Very accurate.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

I've emblemation. Stay tuned for the trailer for that. And we love you.

[Patrick Hines]

We love you. Stay safe out there. Listen to your gut.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

Listen to your gut.

[Patrick Hines]

We love you.

[Jillian Benzavalli]

All right. Bye.

[Patrick Hines]

Bye. People tell me all the time, it's not my fault. I have heard hundreds of times, it's not your fault.

[Christine Handy]

But I should have seen the red flags.

[Patrick Hines]

I was sleeping in my room. I heard two cops and it woke me up. I should.

[Christine Handy]

I should have moved.

[Patrick Hines]

I should have been more careful. I should have played it safe. She's lying face down in her own blood. I am scared to open the door. Had I known that the most dangerous time for a person in a domestic violence relationship is when they try to leave. Had I known that, I probably would have done things differently.