442: Worst Ex Ever: Married to a Monster

Summary

Podcast Summary: "True Crime Obsessed" Episode 442: "Worst Ex Ever: Married to a Monster"

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Introduction

In episode 442 of True Crime Obsessed, titled "Worst Ex Ever: Married to a Monster," the hosts delve into the harrowing tale of Amanda and her tumultuous marriage to Kevin. This episode is the final installment in the "Worst Ex Ever" series, offering a profound exploration of domestic abuse, its devastating consequences, and the often inadequate responses from law enforcement.

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Amanda's Story Begins

Meeting Kevin and Early Relationship

Amanda met Kevin in 2007 at a Denny's in Everett, Washington. Despite Amanda's initial disinterest—[00:30] Patrick Hines: "Amanda was living with him, like, right after college"—Kevin persistently pursued her, eventually leading to a seven-month courtship before they moved in together.

Amanda: "People tell me all the time, it's not my fault... Had I known that the most dangerous time for a person in a domestic violence relationship is when they try to leave, I probably would have done things differently." [02:27]

Signs of Control and Abuse

From the outset, Kevin exhibited controlling behaviors. He frequently checked Amanda's phone, demanded she delete male contacts, and criticized her appearance.

Amanda: "When I was pregnant with my son, he called me a crybaby and fat bitch. I was just really like, who did I marry? Who is this person?" [15:06]

Keven's lack of affection and emotional abuse became more pronounced over time, leaving Amanda feeling isolated and trapped.

---

The Breaking Point: Alicia's Murder

The Violent Attack

On November 6, 2016, at 5:00 AM, Amanda was violently attacked by Kevin while she slept in her home office. The assault left her with severe injuries, including broken teeth and a split eye.

Amanda: "I just remember being in shock. Like, what just happened?" [26:00]

Despite the brutality, the police were unable to arrest Kevin due to insufficient evidence, as Amanda could not positively identify him amidst her injuries.

Alicia's Tragic Death

Months later, on September 20, 2017, Alicia, Amanda's sister and the family's trusted confidante, was brutally murdered. Initially, suspicions fell on Kevin, given his history of abuse.

Manny (Amanda's brother): "We always knew that Kevin was the person." [56:34]

However, evidence did not immediately implicate Kevin, prolonging Amanda's fear and trauma.

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Legal Struggles and Obstacles

Filing Charges Against Kevin

Amanda sought legal recourse by filing two counts of second-degree assault against Kevin. Despite persistent efforts, it took over a year before Kevin was convicted and sentenced to three years in prison for these assaults. The murder charges, however, remained unresolved.

Julian Benzavalli: "This is the definition of we can't help you until he kills you." [50:00]

Breakthrough Through a Random Tip

A pivotal moment occurred when a random tip from a party attendee named Alexis Hale led law enforcement to uncover critical evidence. Alexis, a 15-year-old, and her 17-year-old boyfriend Jared Phillips were found to have orchestrated the murder under Kevin's direction.

Patrick Hines: "If you're at a party and somebody talks about the murder they committed, call." [52:06]

Using Snapchat timestamps and metadata, authorities connected Alexis and Jared to the crime, culminating in their guilty pleas and substantial prison sentences.

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Aftermath and Advocacy

Amanda's Resilience and Advocacy

Despite the immense trauma, Amanda channeled her pain into advocacy work. She played a crucial role in passing Washington House Bill 1901, which redefined domestic violence to include coercive control, providing greater protection and recognition for victims.

Patrick Hines: "Amanda is spreading awareness about domestic violence... She worked on getting a bill passed to redefine domestic violence to include coercive control." [60:38]

Family and Community Impact

Amanda's family, especially her brother Manny and Aunt Punky, grappled with the loss and ongoing fear of Kevin's potential retaliation. The ordeal underscored the pervasive impact of domestic abuse on not just the victim but their entire support network.

Manny: "Alicia was murdered for $2,600. And this is where we're told that Alexis, the 15-year-old, was totally the instigator." [55:35]

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Conclusion

"Worst Ex Ever: Married to a Monster" poignantly captures the relentless struggle Amanda faced in escaping an abusive relationship and seeking justice for her sister Alicia. The episode highlights systemic failures in law enforcement's response to domestic violence and underscores the importance of community support and legislative reform in protecting victims.

Notable Quotes:

• Amanda: "People tell me all the time, it's not my fault... Had I known that the most dangerous time for a person in a domestic violence relationship is when they try to leave, I probably would have done things differently." [02:27]

• Patrick Hines: "It is not hyperbole to say, the cops are saying to them, sorry, he's gonna have to kill you in order for us to have what we need to pick him up. And that's exactly what happened." [50:16]

• Patrick Hines: "Amanda is spreading awareness about domestic violence... She worked on getting a bill passed to redefine domestic violence to include coercive control." [60:38]

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This episode serves as a sobering reminder of the complexities surrounding domestic abuse cases and the critical need for effective support systems and responsive law enforcement to prevent tragedies like Amanda and Alicia's.

Transcript

[Julian Benzavalli]

Well, we've reached a critical mass. Daisy is now doing makeup. I mean, we're just here.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, that's 11, right? 11 and a half. Ish. Yeah, that tracks.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I guess I didn't start doing makeup until I was, like, in my 40s.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, I'm the type of person who doesn't know when kids should be walking and talking. So makeup could be 6 years old. Makeup could be 40. I don't have no idea if you're a Ramsey, you know. Hi.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Julian Benzavalli.

[Patrick Hines]

Hello. Patrick Hines.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Girl, tell them about the disky.

[Patrick Hines]

We are on Discord. It's really fun.

[Julian Benzavalli]

We have a lot of tabs. Is it a we or is it a you? Do you know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

We, like the collective way, like the TCO people are.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I literally was minimizing tabs on my computer today, and I was like, oh, Discord. I opened once four months ago.

[Patrick Hines]

X out. We're fine. We're having fun.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I know. No, it's like, if I were to. If I were to Google how's long to die and cold on that tab, it would say that I. I made that Google search on January 4, 2023.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes, exactly.

[Julian Benzavalli]

That was a long way to go for a bad character joke. What's the other thing we're supposed to talk about?

[Patrick Hines]

YouTube. We're on YouTube now.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Listen, not only are we on YouTube, we are Dom. I love our YouTube so much. People are really involved there. They're really interactive. Our videos look amazing. It's true. Crime obsessed podcast on YouTube. All of our regular episodes, our Tuesday and our Thursday episodes are all there. The video versions, and they are so much fun.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julian Benzavalli]

All right, what are we talking about?

[Patrick Hines]

We are talking about worst ex ever. This is episode four. So this is the last worst ex ever. It's called Married to a monster.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And boy, is she.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, it's married to a Monster. And also this whole series and also worst roommate ever are just like, well, cops are useless.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

In every single episode.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And men are terrible. Sometimes it's a woman, though.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, sometimes.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Every now and then. Not in this case.

[Amanda]

People tell me all the time, it's not my fault. I have heard hundreds of times, it's not your fault. But I should have seen the red flags. I was sleeping in my room. I heard two pops and it woke me up. I should have moved. I should have been more careful. I should have played it safe. She's lying face down in front of her. Her own blood. I am scared to open the door. Had I known that the most dangerous time for a person in a domestic violence relationship is when they try to leave. Had I known that, I probably would have done things differently.

[Julian Benzavalli]

We open with Amanda. We're in Everett, Washington. She tells us that she met a guy named Kevin in 2007 at a Denny's. I said, yes, Queen.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, I get your nudie toots. Yeah. She also opens by saying, like, if I had known that leaving is the most dangerous time for someone in an abusive relationship, I would have done things differently. And I'm like, this is why we scream the same things over and over.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Because you never know when it's going to be someone's first time hearing this, first time knowing a statistic.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I mean, and the advice given is so conflicting. It's like, leave the first time he disrespects you or what? And.

[Patrick Hines]

But it's like, it's also the most dangerous time. So fingers crossed. And the cops aren't going to help.

[Julian Benzavalli]

You, and no one's going to help you. Like, you know.

[Patrick Hines]

So, yeah, Kevin was at. They were all at Denny's. Love, love a booth. Love a Denny. Love the way it smells.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I love, like a fluorescent overhead at 4 in the morning. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

But, yeah, I love the vibe. I love the vibe of like a corporate chain restaurant with booths.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah. Well, Amanda is there with her friend Ari, and Ari is here, and she's like, their meet. Cute. Was actually really cute. Or was it?

[Patrick Hines]

Was it.

[Julian Benzavalli]

We were sitting in a booth eating nachos, and Kevin came and sat right in our booth next to Amanda.

[Amanda]

He was flirting and smiling, and I sort of was dismissive.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm sorry. That if I was with Ashley and eating nachos and some guy came over and sat next to one of us, I'd be like, can you not.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, can we have anything?

[Julian Benzavalli]

No, I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Peaceful nachos at Denny's.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Leave me alone with my nachos.

[Julian Benzavalli]

The best we can hope for are gay bartenders. When I was a bartender and I would like at a steakhouse, which women are just like, not. I don't want to say safe, but they. They certainly are not going to be able to be left alone at a co.

[Patrick Hines]

Sit alone at a bar.

[Julian Benzavalli]

No. And without being like, I would all. I would run interference all night long. All night long.

[Patrick Hines]

That's. We're just trying to have nachos. We can't even have peaceful nachos.

[Julian Benzavalli]

My question was just like, did they invite him over? Maybe they invited him. I don't know, but, like, he's there to talk to Amanda, and Amanda is not giving him the time of day.

[Patrick Hines]

Amanda says he was flirting with me and I was dismissive of him.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So Jason is so.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I'm sorry, Ari. What's so cute about this?

[Patrick Hines]

Like, I know Ari. I like Ari. She just wanted nachos, man. Girl, I hear you.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

I just want eat in peace.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Denny's. Nachos. I don't know, though. I know. Give me some pancakes. At a. At a Denny's.

[Patrick Hines]

I want to eat nachos.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I can see on your face. You're, like, reliving all the time. Men have bothered you. I hate that for you. I hate it.

[Patrick Hines]

I just instantly got so tired.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Well, I got to tell you, we're doing two really tough episodes today, and one of them is about like. Like, child predators on Instagram, essentially.

[Patrick Hines]

It's one of our bonus episodes. It's the first episode of that show Undercover Underage.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And I. I literally made a note that makes me want to get in bed and never come. It makes me feel like I have no fight left.

[Patrick Hines]

Cuz I want to take a really.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Sad shower, put on some Tori Amos.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. My God, Fiona Apple. So Jason is Kevin's best friend from high school. I'm assuming former is just written in Invisible Inc. No question.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Jason is on the right side of history here, I think.

[Patrick Hines]

Amanda does not give Kevin her phone number. She is not interested. A week later, they, quote, run into each other at some event and downtown Spokane.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Where Are you calling bullshit? Do you think he was stalking her?

[Patrick Hines]

I think it's kind of interesting. He's being really, like.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Sometimes I watch these things, like, such a fudgeing, man. That didn't even occur to me.

[Patrick Hines]

It's Weir. She was like. She used the word dismissive. He didn't have her number. He was really pursuing her. And then they run into each other at some event in a major city.

[Amanda]

And he made a joke about it being meant to be that we ran into each other. Just the charming way he spoke drew my interest. He made it pretty clear he wanted a relationship with me, and I found his efforts to be attractive.

[Patrick Hines]

I found his efforts to be attractive. Listen to what she's saying. Yeah, that's zero shade to Amanda. But, like, this happens all the time.

[Julian Benzavalli]

But, I mean, what is the right balance between, like, pursuing somebody and stalking them? What is the difference?

[Patrick Hines]

To me, it's so obvious.

[Julian Benzavalli]

So obvious. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I want it to be stated. I'm asking that question knowing that I know what the answer is you do. But I wasn't asking that question. Like, educate me. I don't know. But like, we see in, like, in TV or like, in movies all the time. Like, the guy that, like, that, like, won't take no for an answer is like. And then he ends up being, I'm.

[Patrick Hines]

Going to marry her. And then it's like, then I just. And then he just made it happen. And it's like, sometimes. Look, I'm not generalizing at all. Yeah, but the words I'm hearing are. Amanda used the word dismissive. He was really pursuing her. She did not give him her phone number. The night of the ruined nachos, and now suddenly.

[Julian Benzavalli]

The ruined nachos. Yes, I love. That's the chapter title.

[Patrick Hines]

Do you know what I mean?

[Julian Benzavalli]

Like, totally.

[Patrick Hines]

Nachos were ruined. Amanda and Ari were shot up for never get back trying to have a girls night at Denny's. Like, fucking girlhood eating their nachos. And it was ruined forever. Yeah, fuck that. Like, don't fuck with, like, why we're having apps. Peaceful apps are all I want.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Not even a Rudy toot.

[Patrick Hines]

So then it's like.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Which they won't give you if you call it that. You got to say the whole thing.

[Patrick Hines]

You got to say the ihop.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Oh, God damn it. Well, now I wish we were at an ihop. Yeah, you gotta say Rudy Tooie for.

[Patrick Hines]

Denny's has some other long winded one to compete with the ihop.

[Julian Benzavalli]

They have the moons over my Hammy, I think.

[Patrick Hines]

Really? I think probably that sounds very dense.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Moons over Miami. Yeah. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

But I'm hearing all these words, and then I'm also hearing we happen to run into each other. I don't know. I'm not. We don't hear anything about how that was weird.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm just saying it's called worst marriage Ever. Whatever the fuck it's called. This guy's a monster.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And I'm just putting two and two together. Travel down the road.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Back again, girl. How's Fiona?

[Patrick Hines]

She's awesome.

[Julian Benzavalli]

He's great. He's a little annoying, but he's good.

[Patrick Hines]

You know what? I'm so thrilled because today's episode is sponsored by the ASPCA Pet Health Insurance Program.

[Julian Benzavalli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julian Benzavalli]

That time, they allow you to customize your plan, helping to ensure that your pet's plan is as unique as they are.

[Patrick Hines]

Because vet bills can really add up, especially when you're least expecting it.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Always, it's simple. You use their app to submit a claim, and you'll receive reimbursement for eligible vet bills directly into your bank account.

[Patrick Hines]

To Explore coverage, visit aspcapetinsurance.com TCO that's.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Aspcapetinsurance dot com TCO Again, that's aspcapetinsura dot com TCO this is a paid advertisement. Insurance is underwritten by either Independence American Insurance Company or United States Fire Insurance Company and produced by PTZ Insurance Agency limited.

[Patrick Hines]

The ASPCA is not an insurer and is not engaged in the business of insurance. I'm engaged in the business of loving my pet, so.

[Julian Benzavalli]

No, you are.

[Patrick Hines]

I don't know about everyone else.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Well, now we meet Manny, who's Amanda's younger brother, like Amanda and Manny, and we're gonna learn their sister Punky. They were all really, really super freaking close.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And he's saying that, like, when he met Kevin for the first time, Amanda was living with him, like, right after college.

[Patrick Hines]

Amanda and Manny are roommates. Brother and sister are roommates.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Brother and sister are roommates. Right, right, right. And Manny's saying that Amanda said, kevin, my friend is gonna stop by. And he stops by. And like this. This was read.

[Manny]

So he complimented me on my broad shoulders. He said I was a lot bigger than he imagined and kind of did this gesture, and I immediately liked him.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And Manny's like, I liked him right away. I don't know what to tell you.

[Patrick Hines]

And immediately I was like, oh, Kevin knows what he's doing, and that's dangerous.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yep.

[Patrick Hines]

So Kevin was, quote, constantly trying to be Manny's friend. Of course he was.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

August 2007. Amanda and Kevin are dating for seven months, and then they move in together. And now we hear about Alicia, also known as Punky, who's Amanda's sister. Punky is the truth seer of the family.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I wish we knew how she got that nickname. I'm dying to know everything about it.

[Patrick Hines]

I know. I love her.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I know. Me too.

[Patrick Hines]

She didn't like Kevin, and she thought he was arrogant.

[Julian Benzavalli]

She didn't like anybody. So this is the thing that we learned about Punky is that she didn't. She definitely didn't like Kevin, and she was 100% right about that. But she also. They're like, she never Liked any of the siblings, significant others. So it's a little hard. I think the Kevin thing gets a little watered down because they're like, oh, Punky doesn't like anybody.

[Patrick Hines]

She. They say. Most of the things she said fell on deaf ears. Tell me about it.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Well, and also, I bet that Kevin could tell right away that she didn't like him and that he didn't have a chance with her and put all of his efforts into Manny.

[Patrick Hines]

Of course. That's 100% what happened.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So Kevin asks Amanda's father for her hand in marriage.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Is this something we still do?

[Patrick Hines]

I know someone who just got engaged in mid to late 30s, and he had just had a conversation with the father.

[Julian Benzavalli]

See that. That's fine. If somebody came to me and was like, I'd like to ask your permission to marry, I'd be like, why don't you ask her?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Like, what makes you think it's my call?

[Patrick Hines]

Well, I think it depends on the nature of the relationship and sort of like, heads up, I'm doing this. I don't know.

[Julian Benzavalli]

That is fine. I totally respect that.

[Patrick Hines]

I. I really don't have an opinion either way.

[Julian Benzavalli]

You don't?

[Patrick Hines]

Very antiquated permission is like. But, like, also this person, like, they picked out the ring together. They knew it was happening. Like, they'd been dating for years.

[Julian Benzavalli]

A conversation of like, hey, I'd like to ask your daughter to. Is that. Are you cool?

[Patrick Hines]

It's just sort of like, hey, the time is coming. This is a surprise for everyone but her. And I'm asking her. I think it really, really has to do with the dynamic of the relationship. I don't think it's like a monolith thing, but, like, this weird, like, can I, like, purchase your daughter and a piece of land?

[Julian Benzavalli]

Can I get a couple cows?

[Patrick Hines]

Or whatever. Apparently, Kevin's dad, like, the ex. The mean, the horrible person, like, his dad wasn't a good guy. So he is claiming he wants to break the cycle. And then more than that, Amanda's dad promises to be the father that Kevin never had and always wanted.

[Julian Benzavalli]

But, like, you know, it's worth really saying that, like, this is Kevin's angle. He's like, oh, he's.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, I don't care. I don't know about his family, but, like, this is all bullshit.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I mean, he'. The dad and the brother fall in love with him and, like. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, I've been. Make promises to him.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Right. Right.

[Patrick Hines]

He's really good at this.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Well, right. That's the manipulation like, we can't. We. We got to give him the benefit of the doubt. He's our guy.

[Patrick Hines]

And now everyone is in on this, like, lovely family together. It's, like, really fucked.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So it's a short engagement, of course, by design. I'm sure they get married very quickly. Here's something very, very, very important.

[Amanda]

In my family, my parents were still together, my relatives, my cousins, everyone had these long term marriages. And we were all happy and excited.

[Patrick Hines]

That was a thing. They don't believe in divorce. They don't do that.

[Julian Benzavalli]

They're all still together.

[Patrick Hines]

Everyone was married for a long time. And Amanda says, like, she was happy to be a part of that. That was sort of like a club that she wanted to be a part of.

[Julian Benzavalli]

But it's also that thing where Amanda is gonna feel like she can't leave the abusive husband because she's gotta uphold that tradition in her family.

[Patrick Hines]

And she's told as much later. And I'm gonna be furious.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Okay, I'm glad to hear you say that because it's.

[Patrick Hines]

Are you kidding?

[Julian Benzavalli]

Bullshit.

[Patrick Hines]

It's insane. What they.

[Julian Benzavalli]

You do not have to stay in an abusive marriage just because your parents are.

[Patrick Hines]

No, it would've been nice to have some support. Yeah, I'm sure. So it was a really emotional wedding. Like, everyone is thrilled to have this big happy family because that's what Kevin is pitching. And like, of course, it's like right before the wedding, up until the wedding, everything's great, right, Like. Cause it's all bullshit. It's all an Act. So September 2011, they've been married for two years. Amanda's 25 years old and she's pregnant with Ileana, her first child. Everyone is thrilled.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I love that name. Iliana.

[Patrick Hines]

Ilana.

[Julian Benzavalli]

It's a beautiful name.

[Patrick Hines]

Really pretty.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Everyone is excited, especially Aunt Punky. She gets pregnant again and again. She gets pregnant like three times in a row, really, really fast.

[Patrick Hines]

She was pregnant three months after Ileana was born.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Ouch.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Just physically, I mean.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes, it goes ouch. And they're all very close in age. It's two girls and a boy. And, you know, Manny is saying, like, Amanda was a great mom, nurturing and loving and like. And Kevin seemed to really, like, be a loving dad as well, according to Manny.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, sure, because that's part of the act.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Because Amanda tells us that they had a lot of problems in the marriage, especially Kevin's lack of affection. So much so that Amanda was shocked. See Kevin emotional about the birth of his daughter.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

So it was that rare that he was going to be emotional, that she was like, oh, do you care about this? Like, oh, weird.

[Julian Benzavalli]

It's such a wild. When she said that when I was watching this the first time, it really caught me off guard because he was so attentive to her in the beginning, like, try courting her and trying to get her to take him serious. And then once he had her, he basically ignored her.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, it couldn't have worked out better for his fucked up mind that, like, oh, and she comes with a family who, like, doesn't believe in divorce.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Now I really got her.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah. But that lack of affection, really, I've never really heard it said like that before.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julian Benzavalli]

You know that, like, that's what their marriage was. Was. It hasn't gotten physically abusive yet, but he's ignoring her, which is still abuse, of course.

[Patrick Hines]

And so it's not just that.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I. I think the important point there is that people don't always recognize that as abuse.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julian Benzavalli]

You know, for sure. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And because it's not just his lack of affection, it's the aggression. Like, he fought dirty, which is bad. Like, fighting is normal, but you cannot fight dirty because he's always putting her down and calling her names.

[Amanda]

When I was pregnant with my son, he called me a crybaby and fat bitch. I was just really like, who did I marry? Who is this person?

[Patrick Hines]

Like, bye, bye. Like, that is abuse.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Except that we all know that women, people who leave relationships, are the most vulnerable. At the time of the week, we're.

[Patrick Hines]

Supposed to suffer one way or the other, like, pick our poison.

[Julian Benzavalli]

What are people who need to leave a relationship really supposed to do? Truly, because we've said this a thousand times already on this episode, no one's gonna help you. No one's gonna believe, literally told, we can't help you until he kills you.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, so much of it is the brainwashing that the abuser does. So much of it is. You think Punky wouldn't be like, stay with me, it's gonna be fine. But chances are he was. You know, she's brainwashed into believing not just Amanda, but, like, someone being abused is brainwashed into thinking that no one. Or, like, he's so nice to my brother, my brother's never gonna believe me. Like, there's just so much layers to it.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah, there are. And we'll get into it in, like, a minute. But there. There are so many things that happen to Amanda that the police blatantly turn a blind eye to.

[Patrick Hines]

And Amanda says, like, she woke up one day and she's like, I don't even know who I'm married anymore. Like, she says Kevin has abandonment issues and his father didn't claim Kevin. And like, she said, I do think that created some emotional issues for him. Like, I'm sure it did.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

How could it not? But there's no excuse for this behavior.

[Julian Benzavalli]

100%.

[Patrick Hines]

Join the fucking club of people who I love, who are great, who had shitty upbringings.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Exactly. Totally.

[Patrick Hines]

Are you kidding? I married one. Give me a break.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And there has to be more to it than that. Right. He has to have some kind of severe mental illness.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. Or not. Like, I don't want to, like, put that on mental illness. Sometimes people are just assholes.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah. Like, and monsters.

[Patrick Hines]

You know what I mean?

[Julian Benzavalli]

So much more than being an asshole. You know what I mean? These monsters are created. And this is when Amanda goes to her dad, and she's like, dad, I'm not happy. I don't know what to do.

[Amanda]

My dad's feedback was to make it work. He was like, this is a good guy. He doesn't drink. He doesn't gamble. He doesn't do drugs. He works a regular job. But Kevin was emotionally abusive throughout the marriage.

[Julian Benzavalli]

The dad tells her to stay.

[Patrick Hines]

To stay. And it's like. It's the most heartbreaking. It must have been one of the loneliest moments of her life.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

To go to someone, her dad, and ask for help in him telling her.

[Julian Benzavalli]

To stick it out because their family is so close. You know what I mean? And I'm sure she's wondering if I'm the one who's the first to get divorced, Is my family gonna abandon me?

[Patrick Hines]

I mean. I mean, it was, like, not allowed. Her brother says it was. Divorce was not topic in our house growing up, like, you couldn't even talk about someone else's. It was like. It was like a word you couldn't even say, like, Right. Weird.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I know. And Amanda is here to say that, like, especially after having the kids and this reinforcement from her family that you should just shut up and fucking take it, she decides she's, like, committed to working it out.

[Patrick Hines]

So she. So now Amanda has to adjust to this abusive lifestyle and work around this guy's triggers. And I just like, how do you hear what's going on? And you're still telling your daughter, stick it out. It's sick.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I know. And it's like, Amanda also has to know that he's not gonna change. He's not working on himself. He's not in therapy. He's not like this is. When you're Amanda, this must be what you're thinking is gonna be your life for the rest of your life. She describes walking on eggshells all the time. Imagine living like that every single day.

[Patrick Hines]

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[Julian Benzavalli]

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[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. So I don' love the heat, but I really super don't love sleeping in the heat.

[Julian Benzavalli]

No.

[Patrick Hines]

So it really helps that Miracle made bed sheets are inspired by Nessa.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

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[Julian Benzavalli]

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[Patrick Hines]

People are disgusting. Let's talk about your skin.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Please do me a favor.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, everyone's okay, great. Not yours anymore because you use Miracle. But like do me a personal favor, stop sleeping on bacteria. I know like bacteria is clogging your pores. It's causing breakouts, it's causing acne. Sleep clean with Miracles.

[Julian Benzavalli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julian Benzavalli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julian Benzavalli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julian Benzavalli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julian Benzavalli]

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[Patrick Hines]

Thank you Miracle Maid for sponsoring this episode. So Kevin is very controlling, obviously, but now he's like checking her phone constantly, regularly. She had to delete every single male Contact in her phone.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And then it's like, he's upset about the things she's wearing to the point. This is where I was like, okay, we've crossed a line. Because she tells the story that they're at a family function.

[Amanda]

I was wearing a T shirt. I had bent over to pick up one of the toys for the kids. And he got upset about that because my breasts were showing. When I bent over.

[Manny]

He said, woman, in a stern voice, and it was unsettling.

[Patrick Hines]

Her brother describes it as he saw her and said the word woman in, quote, a stern voice. That was unsettling. That's a warning shot. That's what he says to her at home when she's, quote, out of line.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So he's doing it, like, what is.

[Julian Benzavalli]

He doing in front of her family? And Manny says it was kind of jarring, but we just assumed that she tolerated it because she didn't say anything.

[Patrick Hines]

Manny says he, quote, didn't know the dynamic of the situation.

[Julian Benzavalli]

When I tell you this is the.

[Patrick Hines]

Dynamic, and it sucks.

[Julian Benzavalli]

If I saw my daughter's partner speak to her like that, the guy would be lifted up by his fucking T shirt. You do not talk to my daughter or any human being like that ever. Ever.

[Patrick Hines]

It's insane.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And if I hear it again, I'm going to kill. Now I'm getting violent.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, yeah.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Because it's like, I'm sorry, but, like, I just. I will not stand for that.

[Patrick Hines]

I just figured it was something he did, and I assume she. Toler tolerated it. Well, maybe your sister shouldn't have to tolerate.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Or maybe you could ask her.

[Patrick Hines]

That's what I mean. Like, maybe she shouldn't have to tolerate. Maybe you should say, that's weird.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

That's not how I want my sister to live her life. This marriage she's not allowed to get out of. I wonder if this man, like, should, like, connect the dots.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And it's. Once again, we are not blaming the family. The bad guy is the bad guy. We know that. But I think what I'm just saying is, if I were listening to this podcast, I would be taking this as permission to, like, be, like, in my own life. Oh, right, right. When I hear somebody speak to somebody that way, I am empowered now to stand up and say, don't fucking do that.

[Patrick Hines]

Don't do that.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Or at the very least, go to the person who was spoken to that way and say, hey, is everything okay at home? I'm a safe place for you. You can talk to me.

[Patrick Hines]

And remember, this is after Amanda told her father that she was in an abusive relationship.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes. Yes. And that's the thing. Like, we have to make our people know that we are safe. You know what I mean? Maybe don't have the fight with the boyfriend at the. At the family event, but go to your friend that. That just happened to and say, talk to me. I want to know what's going on.

[Patrick Hines]

Even drop. Even say, like, I don't know, make up some invisible friend of yours that's going through. Like, just make it clear.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And you know Punky was not at this barbecue because she would have beaten his Punky. Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

There's no way she was there.

[Julian Benzavalli]

She was not there.

[Patrick Hines]

And if she wasn't, didn't do anything. Okay, that's fine. Like, you never know with these people. Right.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And then Kevin's best friend Jason, is over at the house one day. He was the one that was at the Denny's when they all met. And Amanda comes out of a room wearing a pair of little shorts. And now Kevin is yelling at Jason not to look at Amanda in any type of way.

[Patrick Hines]

So he's doing this in front of her family and his friends. What are they doing when he's alone? Right.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Is the. Is the question we always come back to.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And even Jason is like, I don't know this person. The person who was saying that to me, I don't recognize this guy. This is different than I've seen him be. Like, Kevin, something is going on, and Kevin is getting worse. He's escalating.

[Patrick Hines]

So now it's February 2016. They've been married for six years.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And Amanda has had it. She's made the decision. She wants out of this marriage, not just for her, but for her three children.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Amanda]

When I went to talk to Kevin about wanting divorce, he was super upset about it and seemed hurt. I remember being surprised. I really didn't think he was going to care that much.

[Julian Benzavalli]

His response wasn't anger. She says it was, like, hurt and upset. And I think that that is shocking in a moment like that. You're used to this guy yelling at you, screaming at you, or ignoring you.

[Patrick Hines]

She's like, if you don't want me to leave, then be nice.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, then don't be abusive.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Maybe you feel like you want to.

[Patrick Hines]

Be here, but it's like, oh, it's control. Like, it's all. It all goes back to.

[Julian Benzavalli]

It's manipulation. Right.

[Patrick Hines]

And so Amanda wants to leave, but like so many people in her position, money is a concern. She's three kids.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Although in like, in a minute, she's going to have like, the highest power job I've ever heard of.

[Patrick Hines]

She's so awesome. So just to, like, get some space.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

She moves into the home office.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I'm surprised he allowed that.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, you know, I don't know. I. To what end?

[Julian Benzavalli]

I know. Was it a fight every single day or, like, did he just not want her around? But he wanted her around enough, probably, you know?

[Patrick Hines]

You know, there are, like, plenty of options that would still. Still be like, mean to Amanda, but controlling for him. Like, these people aren't like, they're sick.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So it's November 6, 2016. It's 5:00am Amanda is asleep. Like, for example, like, things like this would happen. Right?

[Julian Benzavalli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Amanda's asleep in the office. Kevin, like, out of nowhere at 5am, is in a. A seething, blind rage, kicks the door in and he's looking through Amanda's phone.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Well, he's trying to. Her phone is locked.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And she's asleep. And like, she's got one of those fingerprint unlocks.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. He's like ranting and raving. I don't want anyone to know my business. Like, of course he doesn. Like, tell your friends you're sleeping in the office like that. So, yeah, he's trying to, like jam.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Her finger into the phone to unlock it, but it's not working.

[Patrick Hines]

He's backed her into a closet.

[Julian Benzavalli]

She says she felt like she was held hostage by him in this closet.

[Patrick Hines]

This guy is 511, he's 185 pounds, he's in the military and he's a trained boxer.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So he's backed Amanda into the closet. He's trying to physically force her to open her own phone, but it's not working because he's acting like a fucking maniac. Obviously it's not going to work. Yeah, she's screaming like it's just a mess. And in his frustration that it's not working, for the first time, he hits Amanda.

[Julian Benzavalli]

He punches, like closed fist punches her in the face.

[Amanda]

I just remember being in shock. Like, what just happened? He got a towel and started cleaning up the blood off my face. He hugged me. And then he left for work and.

[Patrick Hines]

Then leaves for work. Like, imagine how stunned Amanda is, woken up at five in the morning from this insane rage. That makes no sense.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Altercation happened, then he's helping you clean up and then he leaves. It's like you can't even make sense of it.

[Julian Benzavalli]

No. And like, we're told that her family is really Upset about it, but still, like, nobody is telling her to leave. We see pictures of these bruises. We see picture her face is swollen. I mean, her face is so swollen, she's unrecognizable.

[Patrick Hines]

And Manny says Punky knew. She always knew. Yes, she always knew.

[Julian Benzavalli]

She always knew.

[Patrick Hines]

So Amanda takes the kids and leaves the house. And she is going as no contact as she can be because they have three kids. Right.

[Julian Benzavalli]

But she still want, like, she is, like, she's trying to think about the kids. She wants the kids to have a dad. She doesn't want to be friendly to him, but she wants to communicate with him just enough to, like, be able to deal with the kids so that the kids can keep their dad.

[Patrick Hines]

You're so. Like, when you're in an abusive relationship, you don't know which end is up. And you. It's not like, I think now she saved. Say, I don't want my kids to have a father like that.

[Julian Benzavalli]

No. And he's going to start hitting them any minute now.

[Patrick Hines]

But in the moment, she's just trying to salvage anything left. And she's thinking, like, well, I don't want it. Like, you just. Your mind is mush.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

By design.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And so, like, in that moment, like, at first, I think it's so easy for someone to hear that and be like, what the fuck?

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

But the reason why is because she can't even. She has no one to talk to.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

She can't even, like, get her. Like, she is off balance in every sense.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes. 100%.

[Patrick Hines]

You know?

[Julian Benzavalli]

100%. And she's also thinking about money and work and where she going to live and. Yeah, all of it. The kids are Super Young. They're 2, 4 and 5. I know.

[Patrick Hines]

And so Kevin's, like, harassing her now, right? Trying to get her to come back, calling her all the time, making these empty promises, air quotes, apologizing because the apologies aren't real.

[Julian Benzavalli]

But then if she. If he would call her and she didn't answer, he would just call, bomb her.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julian Benzavalli]

She's like, there would be times I would have 40 missed calls. 40.

[Patrick Hines]

But then the call before he promised, he's changed.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Right, Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

So then he would start threatening her.

[Amanda]

At one point, Kevin said, come home or else. And I said, or else what? And he said, or else I'm going to file for child support, alimony, and full custody. And if I don't get it, I'm going to kill you.

[Patrick Hines]

And if I don't get it, I'm going to kill you.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Now this is where I think some headway could be made legally like we need. If we're, if we're out there changing laws.

[Patrick Hines]

Sure.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I think that if somebody threatens to kill you, that should be taken seriously.

[Patrick Hines]

I agree.

[Julian Benzavalli]

You know what I mean? Is it not, I mean like it's not in this situation. You know what I mean? If somebody says I'm going this and this and this, I'm going to kill you and this person has a history of physically abusing you.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julian Benzavalli]

There should be some legal consequence for that.

[Patrick Hines]

Of course. You know, I'm just wondering what she would have to do. So she'd probably have to show the photos and probably have it on recording. She'd probably have it recorded depending on if it's a one party, two party state. Right.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Because these cops let her down over and over and over again. He's telling them what he's going to do. He's telling them what he's going to do. Do.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Travel down, girl.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Cornbread hemp seltzers are back. I'm telling you, nobody's drinking alcohol anymore. Why would you?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, I'm super into the THC seltzers cuz they're really good for the summer. I mean they're good all year round, but it's kind of nice to have on like a rooftop or outside or whatever.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Can we just talk about the no hangover? So like we've been having these happy hours. We filled our ice bucket with these cornbread hem seltzers and they were gone in five seconds.

[Patrick Hines]

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[Julian Benzavalli]

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[Patrick Hines]

I mean the salted watermelon is so good. The raspberry limeade. And I'm usually not a blueberry girly, like just as a rule. I love the blueberry breeze.

[Julian Benzavalli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julian Benzavalli]

You know exactly how much you're taking. You can take more or less as desired. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

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[Julian Benzavalli]

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[Patrick Hines]

I'm not Drinking booze anymore.

[Julian Benzavalli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julian Benzavalli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julian Benzavalli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julian Benzavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Not extra dehydrated tomorrow. Give me a break. Who has the time?

[Julian Benzavalli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julian Benzavalli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julian Benzavalli]

Think about what you might need that for. It's date night. Your car breaks down. You got to pay that cell phone bill.

[Patrick Hines]

Unexpected trip to the vet. Or you just want, I don't know, to go to the movies. You just want to fancy pizza. Oh, wow. Or just regular pizza whenever things come up.

[Julian Benzavalli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julian Benzavalli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julian Benzavalli]

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[Patrick Hines]

See the cash out user agreement for details. Services not available in all states. June 21, 2017. Amanda comes home from quote dance practice. Amanda, tell us more. What were you rehearsing? What is this? I love that you had this, but she said practice, but I'm like, so it wasn't a class?

[Julian Benzavalli]

No, no, no, no, no.

[Patrick Hines]

What were you rehearsing for Squad? Like, oh, my God, I can see.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Her bleeding a cell block tango.

[Patrick Hines]

If I'm being like some kind of jazz number. When she said that, I was like, I want to know more about this.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And where are your gay friends?

[Patrick Hines]

Like, what's going on here?

[Julian Benzavalli]

Amanda, where are your gay friends? We need her surrounded by gays.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God. So Amanda pulls up after, like, this super. I'm assuming very, very fun rehearsal.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Nine hour rehearsal.

[Patrick Hines]

Must have been fun.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Mostly to Shania Twain songs.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God. Let's go, girls.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I know we're going out tonight. I'm feeling all right.

[Patrick Hines]

So she gets out of the car. She is immediately ambushed and attacked by Kevin. It is a violent and vicious attack.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Kevin is a fucking idiot, this person. But, like, he manages to be out of her eyesight and doesn't say anything.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, I wonder who it could have been.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I mean, of course it. He beats her so badly.

[Patrick Hines]

Remember, he's a trained boxer.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes, yes. But he beats her so badly that she's struggling just to stay conscious. She's like, I have to stay conscious and call 911. She calls 911, and once again, we see pictures of just how bad this was. Her teeth are broken. Her eye is split open. She's got bruises on her legs and arms.

[Patrick Hines]

And he was probably mad that she was out doing something for herself, that she was at this dance rehearsal or whatever she was doing. All jokes aside, again, the more things you do that make you happy, that have nothing to do with him. He got mad.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes. And so when Amanda gets the cops on the phone or in the hospital or whatever, she says, kevin Lewis did this. Here's his address. And the officer asks her, did you see his face?

[Amanda]

No, I don't think so. From having a bunch of blood in my eyes. They said, did he say anything? No. And he said, they were unable to make an arrest because I couldn't find positively identify him.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay. The cops don't arrest him because Amanda, quote, couldn't identify him. Could you haul him in for questioning?

[Julian Benzavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Could you check his hands for injuries? What about the 50 missed calls? Useless. Use less.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And it's like, there's got to be something we can do here. Like, once this. Like, once this has happened. We know that he's already beaten her. We know that he beat her in the closet at least that one time. Now this has happened. He's telling her he's going to kill her. How is this legally not enough for some kind of order of protection?

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, it's. It's truly unbelievable.

[Julian Benzavalli]

The cops just don't believe her. They just. Or they're just saying that we don't have enough evidence that it's him. And so. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And she's literally like this Is my ex husband or about whatever this is my husband. Like, I left him because he beat me. He just beat me in my car. Here's his name and his address. And they're just like, we. Sorry. It's not enough. Well, Amanda says she's not scared. She's like, she's frustrated. She can't believe this is what's happening, but she's not scared. She's determined to get Kevin and bring him down. She makes a Facebook post about the abuse. I love this. Amanda is going public with what's going on with her.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, she posts. And I mean, the photos are very jarring.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, it really shows. And it's crazy that the cops, like, when you see the photos, that the cops were just like, well, sorry, but it's like. But you saw someone did this to her. Don't you want to find out who it is at all?

[Julian Benzavalli]

Right. He's out there. He's out there.

[Patrick Hines]

Like someone hurt her.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes, yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And left her to die.

[Julian Benzavalli]

She's the mother of three kids and she's a human being.

[Patrick Hines]

So, no, she couldn't identify him. But look at her.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Right?

[Patrick Hines]

Listen to her.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And would it have been better if she had just been like, yeah, I caught a glimpse of him out of the corner of my eye. We're supposed to lie.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Julian Benzavalli]

You know?

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Julian Benzavalli]

So Amanda files charges for both assaults. She also files an order of protection. The kids are automatically included in this.

[Patrick Hines]

Both assaults are from the closet.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

With the phone and the car. So she has documentation, she has photos. She's doing everything you're, quote, supposed to do.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And now we meet Abigail Ruggles. She was a nanny for Amanda and Kevin in 2017. And she saw the Facebook post with the pictures of what happened to Amanda, and she calls Amanda right away to find out if Kevin did that to her. And what is the plan? To get the kids the fuck out of there. Like, Abigail's really invested in this family.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And so Kevin gets served with a protective order, right? No, it's a no contact order. It's about Amanda and her kids.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Amanda has full custody. Like, he's got to stay away.

[Julian Benzavalli]

But he does what he said he was going to do. He immediately files for full custody, child support, alimony, and he wants $8,000 a month. And remember, he said, if I don't get that when I file for it, I'm going to kill you. Right.

[Patrick Hines]

8,000.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Like $8,000. I mean, come on.

[Patrick Hines]

So, like, on top of all of that.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, so it's August 2017, there's a court hearing.

[Amanda]

He was essentially denied. Everything that he was requesting. The custody remained with me. And in fact, the judge said, you have to pay some child support. And he didn't get any alimony either. And so that set him off. He was very angry.

[Patrick Hines]

Kevin is denied everything.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

We have a win finally.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And he's gotta pay child support, which.

[Patrick Hines]

Is like great on one hand, but awful on the other. Because remember, he threatened to kill Amanda if this exact thing happens.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Right, exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

So it's like on one hand, it's like, oh, great. But then you're like, right, but who's protecting her? Like, right.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And like. And now Amanda's got her village around her. Like Abigail the nanny, her sister Punky. But Abigail is saying, like, I was really scared for Amanda. I know Amanda's saying she's not scared, but I was scared for her. I was scared for myself as an employee. And also Abigail, Amanda got full custody of the kids. She was working a ton. We're going to find out. She gets this like, amazing job overseeing like 80 nurse anesthetists.

[Patrick Hines]

Unfortunately, we have to say the word anesthetist again.

[Julian Benzavalli]

You do have to say it. Gay. I'll say it once I say it. Nurse. Anesthetist.

[Patrick Hines]

Anesthetist.

[Julian Benzavalli]

It's anesthetist. It's very. It's syllabent. Ss.

[Patrick Hines]

I love it.

[Julian Benzavalli]

All the way home.

[Patrick Hines]

But I was like, we're here again with anesthesist.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I know, but like, that is. I mean, if she's overseeing those people, that is a high paying, six figure job.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, yeah.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I mean, you know.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julian Benzavalli]

But Abigail is saying that, like, she needs a lot of help. I couldn't do it myself. So between Abigail and Amanda and Punky, they're all raising these kids, right?

[Patrick Hines]

So September 19, 2017, Amanda's working at the hospital director of anesthesia on the administration side, like a Mascara. She oversaw 80 something doctors and nurse anesthetists.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Nurse anesthetists.

[Patrick Hines]

But she's a badass. Which is like another reason this guy hates her.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

He's jealous of her. He's jealous like, she has a good job, she has great friends. Like, you just can't stand it.

[Julian Benzavalli]

She's a total boss, making her own money. Doesn't need him. Never needed him.

[Patrick Hines]

And like, is going to dance class and like, she's like living her life and thriving.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah, he can't take that. No.

[Patrick Hines]

So there's this big work conference in New York City and all of the directors sounds Amazing.

[Julian Benzavalli]

By the way.

[Patrick Hines]

Are meeting and gathering there. It's like a really, like, corporate, like, work conference.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

That you see in the.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I've been to one of those. I know.

[Patrick Hines]

So, Alicia, I feel like I'd be.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Fun at one of those things.

[Patrick Hines]

Sure.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I would be the one organizing the happy hour.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, but you wouldn't want to. You'd be, like, very bored.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I'm probably not going to go to the session tomorrow. Does anybody. Is that okay with everyone?

[Patrick Hines]

It's like, a lot of sessions, right?

[Julian Benzavalli]

It's a lot of sessions. And it's like, these are nurse anesthetists. Like, these. Like, they gotta know their shit.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julian Benzavalli]

You know what I mean? Do you ever get surgery and you look at the nurse anesthetist and you're like, thank you for all the homework you had to do. You know?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. When I went under for my sinus surgery, I cried.

[Julian Benzavalli]

You did.

[Patrick Hines]

At the anesthesia.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Cause I was like.

[Patrick Hines]

Cause they come over and they're like, here's all the ways you could probably not die, but you could. Like, here's all. Like, you have to sign your life away, like. And he tells you what I'm gonna do. And I just started tearing up. And I was like, I'm fine. This is just sometimes a reaction that happens. But, like, when I feel anxious and was so cool about it. Cause he was like, heard. Got it, like, didn't engage in the emotion, but still was, like, nice and telling, like, what I was signing away.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I. When I had to get, like, lower back surgery, like last year or whatever. And I just remember thinking, like, the poor, like, surgeon's gonna have to see my butt. Cause you have to, like, you know, So I wanted to get, like. I just didn't want to have to think about it. And then like, the young nurse anesthetist who gave. You know, they give you that, like, the cocktail before they knock you out. And it's like, to make you not nervous.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And it was. He was so sweet and he was so happy. And he gave me the thing. And I was like, oh, my God, this is my favorite part. He's like, this is everyone's favorite part. And then he gave it to me. And I remember going, you're really handsome. And he goes, thanks. And then I was asleep.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. I had an amazing. The two nurses who, like, walked me into the room. It was August, so it was like after the eras. It was the summer of, like, the Barbie movie and Beyonce and Taylor and so what a summer. It was such a summer. God, God, we thought everything was gonna change.

[Julian Benzavalli]

They're arresting senators today. It's going great.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, unbelievable. So, but we were talking about, like, one of the nurses had gone to Beyonce and I had gone to Taylor. And then the gay nurse was just like, oh, my God. Loving you guys. And he was like, is your hair purple? And we were talking and he was like, we were just like, talking about Taylor and Beyonce. And then it was like, Taylor and Beyonce. And my surprise songs were. And three, two, one.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Oh, no. You were out.

[Patrick Hines]

And then I woke up.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

But it was such a lovely.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Why people hate getting surgery. It's kind of a fun afternoon.

[Patrick Hines]

It's terrifying, but it was like, for someone who was, like, nervous, it was a perfect way to just be like, look over. Literally, like, look over there.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I know. That cocktail they give you before they put you out. Like, it's my favorite day of the week.

[Patrick Hines]

I don't remember any of it.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Oh, I love it so much.

[Patrick Hines]

Anyway, now I can breathe that my sinus is fixed and my septum is not as deviated.

[Julian Benzavalli]

No, I mean, you haven't had like a sinus infection in years.

[Patrick Hines]

It's amazing. I've. People are in my DMs asking about that surgery. I will. It's the one thing where I'm like, I can't talk. I'm DMing about septums.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

It changed my life. Do it, do it.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Modern science.

[Patrick Hines]

It's amazing.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah, we should still get vaccines. So September 20, 2017.

[Patrick Hines]

No to vaccines.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Oh, like the director of the Health and Human Services.

[Patrick Hines]

Right, Sorry. I was. I was still in the summer of 2020.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I.

[Patrick Hines]

For a mere moment.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Oh, God. If only we could go back in.

[Patrick Hines]

May of 2023 at the ERAs Tour. Travel down the road. Back again, girl.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Ritual is back.

[Patrick Hines]

Look, it's hard to get all the nutrients we need.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I know, I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Everyone's busy. We got a lot going on. And I'm not saying that Ritual is essential for women 18 plus multivitamin is like salad in a pill. I'm not saying that, but I am saying that it's formulated to help you fill key nutrient gaps that you might not be getting enough of from your diet.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And.

[Patrick Hines]

And that's. That works for me.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And no, listen, we love science on this podcast. And Ritual conducted a university led clinical trial for their essential for women 18 plus multivitamin to assess its efficacy and get this result, it increased vitamin D levels by 43% and omega 3 DHA levels by 41% in just 12 weeks.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Here's my thing with essential for 18 women plus, like you can have your own, like, ritual. Ritual.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, I love it.

[Patrick Hines]

I love it in the morning.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Because it's minty for fresh, which helps. It's like a nice little minty push in the morning and then I just feel like ready for the day. It's a little like mental trick I play for myself and then I'm like, oh, I have my nutrients, so I'm good.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Oh my God, I love that for you.

[Patrick Hines]

Thanks. Me too.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Also, ritual is HSA and FSA eligible with a seamless checkout experience.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. So you can save when you shop with your pre tax dollars.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Oh my goodness, I'm into this. So, fam. Instead of striving for perfect health, aim for supporting foundational health.

[Patrick Hines]

Get 25% off your first month [e-mail].

[Julian Benzavalli]

TCO start ritual or add essential for women 18 plus to your subscription today.

[Patrick Hines]

That's ritual.com TCO for 25% off.

[Julian Benzavalli]

So September 20, 2017, 12 midnight. So Abigail and Punky are watching the kids because Amanda's at that amazing conference in New York being a badass. Yeah. And I love Abigail because she's like, it's a normal night. We got to get to bed. She's like, no, absolutely. Abigail's like, normally I would stay up late and binge TV shows. She's a paid to the five, there's no question.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Hi. Hi, Abigail, we love you. But she's like, Punky was staying on the couch. I didn't want to like, bother her, so I went to sleep in the bedroom. Right now. This is the most fateful decision of her life.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. So it's 12am And Abigail wakes up to gunshots. She gets out of bed. She goes downstairs to, quote, investigate.

[Amanda]

I turn the corner of the banister and I see Alicia is lying in a stream of blood Life. I caught my phone and called 911.

[Patrick Hines]

Py has been shot and killed.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And presumably Kevin, the ex, did this, right? Like, who else could it have been?

[Julian Benzavalli]

And we hear the 911 call. Abigail is losing her mind. And like, this is the thing that one of the many things that breaks my heart. The kids are trying to come downstairs and Abigail trying to keep Punky alive but also shield the kids from seeing what they're doing. Seeing the paramedics arrive.

[Patrick Hines]

She said the girls didn't see anything, but Isaiah did.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Cuz she goes, he saw some of it. His eyes were so wide.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah. And the he he'll be traumatized for the rest of his life.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. So the kids are taken from the house and they're brought to Amanda's parents farm.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And meanwhile, Amanda's in New York City. Her phone is ringing off the hook.

[Julian Benzavalli]

She hears, she keeps sending it to voicemail. She's like, dad, leave me alone, I'm working.

[Patrick Hines]

And so she really, she hears because I guess the time difference, whatever. So her father calls her and says, he killed Punky. So now Amanda has to sit on a flight home, which must have been absolutely miserable. Yeah, she's sad, she's scared, she's confused, she's anxious. Those bullets were meant for her. She's thinking, yes, of course. Where are my kids? I mean, the worst. How many times do we hear about these, like, cross country flights?

[Julian Benzavalli]

Oh, it's horrible.

[Patrick Hines]

Of like misery. Misery and terror.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I know. I think about Matthew Shepard's parents who had to fly from Saudi Arabia to Colorado. Oh, my God. I know.

[Patrick Hines]

And it's like, so. So okay, did Kevin do this? If so, why was Alicia the target was Amanda? Like, what's going on here?

[Julian Benzavalli]

And like, Manny describes how he found.

[Manny]

Out my alarm is going off. And then I realized it's not my alarm, it's a phone call. It's my dad. And he says, son, I need you to get ready. I need you to wake up. I need you to listen to me. Your sister is dead. Dad said I would not stop screaming. No, for the next two minutes.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I would not stop screaming for the next two minutes. Which means Manny doesn't remember. Manny blacked out.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, I mean, of course. And it's just like the pain of knowing that Punky knew the whole time.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Well, right, but they're also like, everybody assumes that Kevin was the gunman. And why would Kevin kill Punky? Like, that doesn't make any sense.

[Patrick Hines]

Right?

[Julian Benzavalli]

Right. Like nobody can figure out out why Kevin, who they know did this, would have killed Punky.

[Patrick Hines]

But he must have had a hand in it at the very least.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Right?

[Patrick Hines]

So Amanda is terrified because now Kevin's just out in the world. Like, is he. What, did he make a mistake? Did he think that Punky was Amanda? They are sisters. Like, is he coming back to get Amanda? Will he kill somebody else? Is he looking for the kids? On top of that, they're trying to mourn Punky, Alicia, at the funeral. They have to keep it a secret.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Because it's a place where Kevin would. If they announce it publicly, then Kevin's gonna know where she is and he can come and get her.

[Patrick Hines]

So on top of the mourn and the trauma that comes with this situation, we have to add that added level of fear and secrecy to the mess.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Cause I'm also like, wait a second. Why is Kevin out on the street? Like, what the fuck is going on here?

[Patrick Hines]

This is so unfair.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And so the cops go to talk to Kevin, and the cops say to us, kevin did not give them much information. He said he was home that night. He didn't leave his residence. They say, we thought he was involved, but we didn't know his level of involvement at the time.

[Patrick Hines]

Zero. Okay, great.

[Julian Benzavalli]

He's just like. Once again, he beat Amanda almost to death in her car, but they couldn't get him. Cause she. She didn't, quote, see him right now, Punky is dead. He's the only one who could have done it, or at the very least, been majorly involved. But they still don't have enough to get this guy, right.

[Patrick Hines]

Also, Brad is Alicia, Punky's husband. He was devastated. They knew each other their whole lives.

[Amanda]

They had known each other their whole lives, and they did everything together. They really were each other's best friend. Watching him say goodbye to her before they closed the casket was one of the hardest things I've ever witnessed.

[Julian Benzavalli]

The hardest thing she's ever seen in her life.

[Patrick Hines]

And the cops know he didn't do it, right?

[Julian Benzavalli]

So they rule him out.

[Patrick Hines]

They rule him out. So, like, months are going by and nothing's happening.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Months, Months. And. And Kevin is just out there, and Amanda's whole family is, like, in fear for their fucking lives.

[Patrick Hines]

It's just like, they say there's not enough to move forward with the murder charges. And I'm like, really, really? Like, do the things you need to do to get the murder charges, right? Do the fucking work. Like, let's think. Was it a random attacker, or was it the guy with the history of abuse who told everyone he was going to do this?

[Julian Benzavalli]

Bring him in for a fucking question, sit him down and get him talking.

[Patrick Hines]

Right?

[Julian Benzavalli]

At the very least, he'll say something.

[Patrick Hines]

Because she has a protective order against him. So ask a question.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

I know they asked, but he didn't answer.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Okay, well, how do they not. I don't understand how they can't get him downtown for one interview, but leaning.

[Patrick Hines]

Into the fact that it wasn't Amanda, Right? They are using Punky's death as a positive for their case, which is disgusting.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Once again, it just comes down to they just don't want to do the investigation. Like, that's just why?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, I guess so. I mean, I don't know. I wish I knew the real answer as to why. You would not really do when you see the photos, if you can stomach them. The photos Amanda took in the hospital.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Horrible.

[Patrick Hines]

And the cop just being like, it's probably not your abusive husband.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah, probably not him. It's probably a random.

[Patrick Hines]

Or is it the guy who told everyone he was going to do this.

[Julian Benzavalli]

With a history of abuse and knew your schedule and knew when you'd be pulling into the driveway in the middle of nowhere, you know, Washington? And so, Amanda, I had to live.

[Amanda]

Kind of looking over my shoulder for quite a while. And of course, my home was turned into a bloody crime scene, so I couldn't go back there, and certainly not with my kids and all the trauma that had. Had just happened. So I moved into a shelter with the kids.

[Julian Benzavalli]

She needs to be somewhere where he can't find her, because her.

[Patrick Hines]

Also because her house is a crime scene because her sister was just murdered.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

And I'm like, okay, so I guess that. Cause I was like, really? No spare room at the farm for Amanda and her kids. But you're right. It's probably more of a safety thing, I hope.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Right?

[Patrick Hines]

I hope so. Amanda is trying to at least get Kevin charged with assault for the two documented assaults she experienced.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

But she says there's all. She said, there's all this back and forth about which department to file it with. And in my notes, I say, I swear to God, I'm about to lose my mind.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I know there's a man out there who just killed somebody who will definitely do it again. And you can't decide who's gotta file this because you don't want to have to stay late at work today. Right.

[Patrick Hines]

And it wasn't until after Alicia's murder that things started moving with those charges. And I'm like, well, maybe if those charges weren't held up, we wouldn't be here.

[Julian Benzavalli]

But this is also the definition of we can't help you until he kills you. It is literally that in action. It is not hyperbole to say, the cops are saying to them, sorry, he's gonna have to kill you in order for us to have what we need to pick him up. And that's exactly what happened.

[Patrick Hines]

And so Jarrett the lawyer is.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Because Amanda should have been dead. Like, if Amanda didn't, on a fluke, have this work trip, it would have been her.

[Patrick Hines]

Right? Right. So Jarrett the lawyer is here, and he files two counts of second degree assault, which are both Felony charges. Jarrett is on our side.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes. Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So a year. A year after Alicia's murder, a year without charges. A year where Kevin gets to live his fucking miserable life. And Amanda's l Fear and hiding.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Her kids are living in hiding.

[Patrick Hines]

Three children. A year later, he is found guilty of both charges of assault. And they're both felonies.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So he gets sentenced to three years.

[Julian Benzavalli]

But they're not even looking into the murder yet.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. And this gives Amanda's like, okay, cool, so now I have like a three year countdown clock of like, when my life's going to be miserable again.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

And now it still is miserable.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And he's going to be in prison for three years, honing his anger and learning from other people on the inside how best to kill her.

[Patrick Hines]

Like three years until it gets even worse.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

Thank you so much.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Right? Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So months later, the sheriff's office gets a tip that changes everything to some.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Fucking idiot at a party. These people are so stupid.

[Patrick Hines]

Not through police work, by the way, just a random tip.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes. Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Thank you, random caller, whoever you are.

[Julian Benzavalli]

At a party in Spokane, Washington, a female named Angelica was making comments about how she and her boyfriend killed someone. We were able to determine that Angelica was someone named Alexis Hale.

[Patrick Hines]

Now, Angelica is actually named Alexis Hale.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And. But she really was running her mouth. The caller was like, I think her name was Angelica. I don't know. Her name is Alexis Hale. She really was running her mouth and she was saying things at this party that were not released to the public.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Right. So the cops, based on this tip, are able to say like, yeah, this must be the actual killer, because they know things that. That only the killer would know. I just want to take one more second and thank that hero caller. Be that person.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julian Benzavalli]

If you're at a party and somebody talks about the murder they committed, call.

[Patrick Hines]

It, even if you don't have the name. Right, Right. Make the phone call.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Make the phone call.

[Patrick Hines]

And so on top of that, not only was Alexis talking about things that weren't released to the public, her boyfriend is a guy named Jeridon Phillips, who also happens to be Kevin's cousin.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Alexis is 15 years old. Jared on is 17. These are kids.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Children.

[Patrick Hines]

So here's the evidence against them.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Once they get these names, they get the evidence in 15.

[Patrick Hines]

They were Snapchatting the whole fucking thing. So we have Snapchat timestamps and the metadata. So Alexis and Jared Don were in photos and videos together on the night.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Of the murder, literally driving from Spokane to Amanda's front door.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Like taking videos and Snapchats the whole time.

[Patrick Hines]

Cell phone info says they were in the same car driving from place to place. Alexis was taking videos of the journey, which is absolutely insane behavior.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And the cop keeps saying, by the way, just because you think your Snapchats disappear, they don't like nothing ever.

[Patrick Hines]

Do people really still think that Snapchat's disappear? I know so, but also they stopped at Kevin's place on the way to Amanda's. Like we, we got them. So it's April 6, 2019, 19 months after Alicia's murder.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

The cops talk to both of these psychopaths.

[Julian Benzavalli]

We see Jared on Phelps, his interview and the cops are like, I've been in your phone, I've been in your social media.

[Patrick Hines]

I know a lot of things that.

[Julian Benzavalli]

You don't know that I know. I know you pretty well by now from what you put out in your social media. I didn't come here on a fishing expedition. This, this is the real deal.

[Patrick Hines]

I've been in your phone, I've been in your socials. I know a lot of things you don't want me to know. Not just about this murder. You better start talking.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

And he does. And so he knows he's caught. He says, yep, Kevin Lewis is my cousin. He reached out to me saying he was looking for someone to kill Amanda. Jared on says look no further, I'll definitely commit murder for him.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Happy happily to do it.

[Patrick Hines]

Jaredon enlists his 15 year old girlfriend Alexis to help. She agrees.

[Julian Benzavalli]

She agrees.

[Patrick Hines]

Got ideas out of all the things she could have said to him when he asked for her help killing someone, she said yes. There were like so many other options. And she went with, yeah, we're going to find out.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Jared on was paid $2,400. She was paid 200. Punky was murdered for $2,600. And this is where we're told that Alexis, the 15 year old, was totally the instigator. It was her idea to play the victim. It was her idea that they would show up at the house rather than having Jared on knock on the door because they knew Amanda would not open the door for him. She was going to play like a young girl in dist.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. So because the killers meet up with the ex husband, 15 year old Alexis is like, are there going to be kids there? The ex husband says yes. And even 17 year old Jared Don goes, that didn't change my mind. They're never going to be 13.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Didn't matter.

[Patrick Hines]

So the ex shows the killers A picture of Amanda. And then they tells them to go to the house that has Amanda and two other women and three children and kill someone they've never met before in their lives.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I took a brief look at the picture. You showed me a picture.

[Patrick Hines]

But he shows you photo of the person that he wants you to kill. Correct.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Okay.

[Patrick Hines]

And the best that you can tell when, when the female answers the door.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Whoever.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Whoever was opening the door was getting shot.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay.

[Julian Benzavalli]

So did.

[Patrick Hines]

So looking at the photo didn't really matter, did it?

[Julian Benzavalli]

He didn't care. He glanced at the photo. He was just killing whoever answered the door.

[Patrick Hines]

And then Alexis was going to be the bait because a house full of women and children are more likely to open the door for a 15 year old girl.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And so Alex, Alexis knocks, Alicia answers. Jeradan, sorry, Jeradon shoots her twice. Alicia falls to the ground, he shoots her again. And then the killers leave and go home. And we know this because Jeradon is telling all of it in great detail with zero emotion and zero remorse.

[Julian Benzavalli]

He does not care.

[Patrick Hines]

He doesn't give a shit.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And I, and, and I, you know, we'll see. Abigail towards the end of this thing, talking about her survivor's guilt. But like, that decision to be like, I'll be the one to take the bedroom tonight, you stay on the couch and watch tv, that was the most, that was the most fortuitous decision of her life.

[Patrick Hines]

And I'm thinking like, as we're watching this, not like it matter, not like it would make anything okay, but did the ex promise you $10 billion? Is he a genie with unlimited wishes?

[Julian Benzavalli]

I mean, it seems like it was $2600 is what he was willing to pay for that.

[Patrick Hines]

We don't know that yet. So as I'm watching this, right? Among my many other questions, why did you say yes to this?

[Julian Benzavalli]

And why did you. Like, you clearly didn't think you were going to get away with it, right?

[Patrick Hines]

But he, he did it for $2400 and he gave Alexis 200 of those dollars. And they are flashing it all over Snapchat saying, you'll never guess what I did for this money.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Like that's, I mean, what is wrong with these people?

[Patrick Hines]

They're like, they're posing with the money, they're posing with the gun.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So we have them on the social stuff, the cell phone data, we have them on bank information, we have them on ring cameras, we have this asshole's confession. Like we've got them.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah. And they say they've got enough to charge it. They. They tell the family, and the family's.

[Manny]

Finally like, we always knew that Kevin was the person. But to find out that there was another person who pulled the trigger. Finally we could make sense of things. Because this whole thing was so confusing from the beginning. We just couldn't imagine Kevin shooting the.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Wrong person because the guy who did it didn't even know the difference between Punky and Amanda and didn't care.

[Patrick Hines]

But the order was, it doesn't matter who opens the door, Right? Oh, God. That is one of the three women or three young children in there.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Oh, my.

[Patrick Hines]

Kill any of them. God.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Oh, my.

[Patrick Hines]

That was. That's what the order was. So, like, so the ex husband is charged with aggravated first degree murder because he was serving time for the assaults when he was charged. Because it took so long to get to the bottom of this, thanks to that random person who called. Not any fucking police work.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Thank the Lord for that person.

[Patrick Hines]

But the ex husband is charged with aggravated first degree murder because he planned the whole thing.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

And he told them exactly what to do.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So it's October 14, 2021, the trial. Alexis and Jared, on both plead guilty. Alexis gets 15 years. She's 15 years old. Yeah, she's 15 years old.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Fuck.

[Julian Benzavalli]

She's going to get out of prison at 30, having served half her life in prison.

[Patrick Hines]

As they're telling us about Alexis and her trial, we're seeing social media photos of her taking selfies as she's pointing the gun in the mirror.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah, I know.

[Patrick Hines]

It is.

[Julian Benzavalli]

So these people had no plan to get away with this. They. They had. All they wanted to do was go kill somebody.

[Patrick Hines]

And Jerada got 32 years. I googled this. And. And in the one of the articles I read, it says I kind of wanted to do it so I could say I'd done it before he testified. He says this during his testimony at trial. Sociopath. I know we don't diagnose people, but can I have these two?

[Julian Benzavalli]

I know. Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

You're gonna come for me about this, okay?

[Julian Benzavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Look at yourself in the mirror. Hopefully not holding a fucking gun, you psycho. I'm saying it. Psycho. You're a psychopath. Come for me. So the ex pleaded not guilty. Of course, he showed zero remorse. BFF Ari is like, he really thought he was gonna get away with all this.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I mean, it's unbelievable.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, it started what could have and should have been an annoying thing that happened to Denny's with a girlfriend.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, it should have ended there. I'm not interested.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Leave me to eat my nachos in peace.

[Julian Benzavalli]

The idea that he then stalked her for a week and then followed her to Spokane to meet her by accident at a festival, that is crazy.

[Patrick Hines]

And look, I'm speculating wildly here, a la Joan Calimezzo, but it seems like.

[Julian Benzavalli]

A pretty strange coincidence.

[Patrick Hines]

I wouldn't be surprised if that's really what happened. It just feels weird. She wasn't interested. He didn't get her number, but yet here he is. It's just weird to me. But guess what, BFF Ari, he didn't. The jury found him guilty. He did not get away with it. So he got life in prison without parole.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And, like, now all of these people. L. With their survivors go. Amanda says, people always tell me it's not my fault. And she's like, I understand that, but I'm. I'm the link between Kevin and Punky. Like, without that, Punky isn't dead.

[Patrick Hines]

And Punky's also her sister. Like, it's the trauma of that, too, losing your sister.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And it's also like, you know, what those kids went through that night, Losing their. Losing their dad, being witness to these.

[Patrick Hines]

Murders and all the shit they saw when they were living in the house and their father was abusing their mother in any number. And so, like, Abigail the nanny says.

[Amanda]

There'S not a day that goes by that, like, I don't think of her and what she did to not only save the kids, but to save me, because I could have just as easily been behind that door. But I know how important it is to move forward for her to the end.

[Patrick Hines]

Alicia stood up and fought for what she. For the kids, for her, the kids, for the people she loved, for what she believed in. Like, she's just a fucking.

[Julian Benzavalli]

And, like, you know, Punky's family just misses her so much. Manny gets a tattoo. He gets a Punky tattoo. It's very fucking cool.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And Amanda, though. So Amanda is working through her trauma by doing the good work.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So she's spreading awareness about domestic violence. She's an advocate. And. And. And she worked on getting a bill passed to redefine domestic violence to include coercive control.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

That is such a big deal.

[Julian Benzavalli]

That's a really big deal.

[Patrick Hines]

And the law passed. And, like, Amanda is hearing that it's saving lives, which is amazing. It was added to Washington House Bill 1901. I looked it up today.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Oh, wow.

[Patrick Hines]

And she's like, yeah, you. Alicia would have wanted that. Like, that's what my sister would have wanted. And I'm sure she's incredibly proud of her. And like, fuck everyone. And thanks, Amanda, for doing the work and I'm sure you're exhausted.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I know, but thank you. Thank you.

[Patrick Hines]

We need you. We need you out there, Amanda. Thank you so much.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Oh, my God. Well, we finished the whole series of Worst Ex ever.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Married to a Monster. There are only four episodes of Worse X ever. It feels like a million. We also did Worst Roommate ever. Yeah, that's sprinkled in.

[Julian Benzavalli]

But it does feel like in total it was 400 hours there.

[Patrick Hines]

It feels like that for sure. I think there were only, what, four worst exes ever.

[Julian Benzavalli]

That is, if you were to have asked me right now, like, how many worst exes ever do, I would have been like, I don't know, 12?

[Patrick Hines]

I think we've done eight this year.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

Worst Ex ever and Worst Roommate ever. There's like four piece. We did Worst Roommate last year.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Yeah. That's crazy because it definitely feels like it was like a minute major part of what we did this year.

[Patrick Hines]

This feels like a lot.

[Julian Benzavalli]

So much. Oh, my God. You know what else is so much the disky. You guys join mostly Jillian in the discord.

[Patrick Hines]

We have so much fun. So, like, we. There's the, like, episode discussion, Patreon app discussion. There's a place for you to, like, send documentary suggestions where there's also, like, not TCO related stuff. Not true crime stuff. There's like the animal, the pet channel. There's like a whole bunch of different channels.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Oh, my God. And speaking of channels, go look at our YouTube channel. Please, please, please do it. The more subscribers we get, the more the algorithm shows us to other people who want to like, who look for content like ours. So even if you don't like YouTube, go subscribe. Yeah, just go hit the subscribe. I did it for Pod Save America. You go do it for us.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, fun.

[Julian Benzavalli]

You know what I mean, Paying it forward. What are we doing next, Girl?

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, boy. Remember that Train Wreck series that we did, Woodstock? So they are coming out with a bunch of new episodes. Train Wrecks. So this is Train Wreck the Astroworld tragedy on Netflix. About that fucking horrifying Travis Scott concert.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I don't know anything about this.

[Patrick Hines]

It's where the people died at the Travis Scott concert. Because he, like, wouldn't stop the show.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

So we're going to drag Live Nation. We're going to drag Travis Scott.

[Julian Benzavalli]

All right, cool. Screw both of them.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, they are horrible and we meet a lot of people who were there, so we're, like, hearing it.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Oh, wow.

[Patrick Hines]

But just, like, beware. It's hard to watch if you have issues with, like, having trouble breathing. Just, like, be careful with that. You know, Watch with caution. But we'll be covering that next week.

[Julian Benzavalli]

All right, fam, we love you. Go do something nice for somebody, please, please, and yourselves.

[Patrick Hines]

You know what I'm saying? Just be nice.

[Julian Benzavalli]

All right? We love you.

[Patrick Hines]

We love you. All right.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Bye.

[Patrick Hines]

Bye. There was a countdown clock until Travis Scott came out. And that's when it started getting pretty hectic. And I'm like, oh, my God.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I can't take a deep breath. The music started playing, and you just felt your whole body just move forward.

[Manny]

Became overwhelming real fast. And then the wave comes back.

[Julian Benzavalli]

I fell on something. I fell on someone.

[Patrick Hines]

Because people were falling on me.

[Amanda]

It was crazy, man.

[Patrick Hines]

People are dead and hundreds others hurt. One lawsuit claims the festival was a, quote, predictable and preventable tragedy.

[Manny]

I relived that moment trying to change my actions for a different outcome.

[Julian Benzavalli]

But it's always the same outcome.

[Patrick Hines]

You didn't have to know somebody to be affected.

[Julian Benzavalli]

You guys were in charge of this. What was the failure?

[Patrick Hines]

Never spoke about it before. But we're doing this so that people.

[Julian Benzavalli]

Will know the truth.