444: Trainwreck: The Astroworld Tragedy

Summary

Episode Summary: True Crime Obsessed – Episode 444: Trainwreck: The Astroworld Tragedy

In Episode 444 of True Crime Obsessed, the hosts delve deep into the catastrophic events that unfolded during Travis Scott's Astroworld Festival. Through a combination of documentary analysis, survivor testimonies, and expert insights, the episode paints a comprehensive picture of the tragedy, its causes, and its far-reaching consequences.

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1. Introduction

The hosts, Julia Penzavalli and Patrick Hines, kick off the episode by setting the stage for their discussion on the Astroworld tragedy. They express a mix of emotions, highlighting the severity and emotional weight of the topic.

Julia Penzavalli [02:51]: "You didn't have to know somebody to be affected."

2. Background of Astroworld Festival

Astroworld, an annual music festival founded by Travis Scott in Houston, Texas, is positioned as a highly anticipated event, especially as the world began reopening post-pandemic. The festival, themed after a childhood amusement park of Scott's, promised an exhilarating live music experience with multiple stages and top-tier artists.

Patrick Hines [04:24]: "Travis Scott was bringing us all together in this festival."

3. Planning and Safety Failures

Behind the scenes, significant oversights in event planning and crowd management set the stage for disaster. Tickets were sold beyond the venue's safe capacity—50,000 tickets for an area designed to accommodate 35,000 attendees. Additionally, the stage design and entry points contributed to the chaos, with insufficient security measures in place.

Patrick Hines [64:22]: "We, like, Live Nation management... 'There was a way this was going to fail.'"

4. The Event Unfolds

On the day of the festival, excitement was palpable. Concert-goers queued for hours, eager to secure prime spots for Travis Scott's performance. However, early signs of trouble emerged as attendees began to rush the gates, some armed with smoke sticks and bombs, overwhelming security measures from the outset.

Julia Penzavalli [18:06]: "You don't see an attendant at the gates at this point because they're knocking the security down."

5. Chaos and Tragedy

As Travis Scott took the stage, the atmosphere rapidly deteriorated. The crowd surged uncontrollably towards the stage, leading to a devastating crowd crush. Emergency services were overwhelmed, and despite the presence of paramedics and security personnel, ten lives were lost due to compression asphyxiation.

Aiden [38:08]: "I felt the oxygen leaving."

6. Responses from Authorities and Travis Scott

In the immediate aftermath, Travis Scott continued his performance for over an hour, even as chaos reigned. His nonchalant demeanor and delayed response to the unfolding tragedy drew significant criticism. Live Nation, the event's promoter, faced scrutiny for their inadequate safety protocols and failure to halt the event promptly.

Patrick Hines [43:09]: "He just kept on going. And the thing is, like, Live Nation and Ticketmaster, they have this monopoly."

7. Legal Consequences and Settlements

The tragedy led to a slew of lawsuits against Travis Scott, Live Nation, and associated entities. Despite the gravity of the incident, a 2023 Houston grand jury found no individual criminally responsible. Nevertheless, ten wrongful death lawsuits were settled out of court for undisclosed amounts, leaving many families without a formal resolution.

Julia Penzavalli [70:32]: "In 2023, a Houston grand jury found that no individual was criminally responsible for the deaths at AstroWorld."

8. Impact on Survivors and Victims' Families

The emotional toll on survivors and the families of the deceased is profound. Friends lost in the tragedy, like Rudy Pena and Brianna Rodriguez, left enduring scars on their loved ones. Survivors grapple with PTSD, depression, and survivor's guilt, while families mourn their irreplaceable loss.

Maria, Rudy's Mother [55:30]: "They stole my light. They stole a part of my heart."

9. Conclusion and Reflections

The episode concludes with the hosts reflecting on the systemic failures that led to the Astroworld tragedy. They lament the lack of accountability among major industry players and express skepticism about meaningful change ensuing from the incident. The episode serves as a stark reminder of the potential dangers of large-scale events when profit and spectacle overshadow safety and humanity.

Patrick Hines [72:43]: "How does anybody who watches this documentary or listen to this episode enjoy a live concert ever again?"

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Notable Quotes:

• Julia Penzavalli [02:51]: "You didn't have to know somebody to be affected."
• Patrick Hines [04:24]: "Travis Scott was bringing us all together in this festival."
• Patrick Hines [64:22]: "We, like, Live Nation management... 'There was a way this was going to fail.'"
• Aiden [38:08]: "I felt the oxygen leaving."
• Maria, Rudy's Mother [55:30]: "They stole my light. They stole a part of my heart."
• Patrick Hines [72:43]: "How does anybody who watches this documentary or listen to this episode enjoy a live concert ever again?"

Key Takeaways:

• The Astroworld tragedy was a preventable disaster rooted in poor event planning, overcrowding, and inadequate safety measures.
• Travis Scott and Live Nation faced significant backlash for their roles, with legal consequences trailing in the aftermath.
• The emotional and psychological impacts on survivors and victims' families are long-lasting and profound.
• The incident underscores the need for stringent safety protocols and accountability within the live event industry.

This episode serves as a crucial examination of one of the most harrowing events in recent music history, urging listeners to consider the human cost behind large-scale entertainment spectacles.

Transcript

[Julia Penzavalli]

Okay, witch, I'm begging. What do I have to do for some warm weather?

[Patrick Hines]

I don't know, girl. It's not my fault.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Come on. I know it is.

[Patrick Hines]

It's not.

[Julia Penzavalli]

I know you're in your house. Double bubble, boil and tumbling or whatever.

[Patrick Hines]

A lot bigger fish to fry.

[Julia Penzavalli]

You know what? That's fair.

[Patrick Hines]

If I may.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Okay, you're right. Hi. Julia Penzavalli.

[Patrick Hines]

Hello. Patrick Hines, fam.

[Julia Penzavalli]

I am out on tour. I am very, very close to being done. I've got 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. Six shows left.

[Patrick Hines]

Wow.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Six of 40. So August 1st, I'm gonna be in Charlotte. August 2nd, I'll be in Atlanta. August 4th, I'll be in Orlando. August 15th, D.C. august 16th, Philadelphia. August 30th, closing it down in London at 21 Soho, one of my favorite places. It's so fun.

[Patrick Hines]

That's fun.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Please come and see me. Come and make new friends. We're having such a great time. This show is really great. It's such a community building event. If you want, it's an hour long. I make you laugh. But before that there's a pre party. After that there's a post party and. And everyone just makes friends and loves each other.

[Patrick Hines]

The whole thing's a party.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Honestly, the whole thing's a party. It's PatrickTours.com. please come and see me. And if you can't see me on the road, maybe see me and GP together on YouTube.

[Patrick Hines]

On YouTube. Our full episodes of like our regular feed episodes are all on YouTube, like full length and everything.

[Julia Penzavalli]

And I gotta tell you, they're great. They're so fun to watch. I go through to just look at them, but then I end up watching the whole thing. It's so fun. We've got like over 20,000 subscribers on our YouTube channel. Get in the YouTube.

[Patrick Hines]

The two youths, as they say, my cousin Vinn, it always comes back.

[Julia Penzavalli]

What would Macchio say when he discovered the YouTube channel? Oh, great. It's true Crime obsessed podcast. It's so fun. What are we talking about today?

[Patrick Hines]

Oh my goodness. So this is new on Netflix. It's. You know that train wreck series we did, the Woodstock one. This is the astroworld tragedy.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Are they all going to be music based?

[Patrick Hines]

We are recording this so far in advance. Everyone's going to be like, yeah, idiot. I don't know. But no, they're not all music based. I thought they would be, but they're not. There's plenty of train wrecks in the music industry. We're talking about two, three, Four of them. Two, three.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Two, three, four. I know, it's ridiculous.

[Patrick Hines]

There was a countdown clock until Travis Scott came out.

[Julia Penzavalli]

And that's when it started getting pretty hectic.

[Patrick Hines]

And I'm like, oh, my God. I can't take a deep breath.

[Julia Penzavalli]

The music started playing and you just felt your whole body just move forward. Became overwhelming real fast. And then the wave comes back.

[Patrick Hines]

I fell on something. I fell on someone because people were falling on me. Instant nine, one one.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Cancel. Yes, sir. Press it down, please. It was cr.

[Patrick Hines]

People are dead and hundreds others hurt. One lawsuit claims the festival was a, quote, predictable and preventable tragedy.

[Julia Penzavalli]

I relived that moment trying to change my actions for a different outcome. But it's always the same outcome.

[Patrick Hines]

You didn't have to know somebody to be affected.

[Julia Penzavalli]

You guys were in charge of this. What was the failure? Never spoke about it before. But we're doing this so that people will know the truth. We're opening in November 2021. We're in Houston, Texas. The world is finally starting to reopen after the pandemic. And I took a collective by myself side for. I remember how grateful I was to find out that we were gonna actually get to go outside and be around people again.

[Patrick Hines]

I know. I do wanna say too, like, this is really hard to watch if you haven't watched it. I just wanna give. I mean, I'm feeling a little heavy and tight in my chest just talking about it. The people who are. Who were there, they have, of course, experienced the same thing. Is like, if I wasn't there. Just be careful. Take care when watching this.

[Julia Penzavalli]

That's all I'm saying. Because a lot of this is, like, shot from, like, people's like, cell phones.

[Patrick Hines]

In the crowd and hearing from people who survived this. So it's very. I had to take a couple breaks. It was tough.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Like a visceral. Like, I felt it physically.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah. We're. So we're talking about Travis Scott's astroworld. I have no idea who Travis Scott is.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay.

[Julia Penzavalli]

And I recognize that he is, like, I did a lot of cookie days, like, the biggest star on the planet. I did not know him.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. So. So this is a yearly event.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And it couldn't happen during lockdown. And so Travis Scott is bringing it back. People are ready to party.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah. I mean, we meet a bunch of people. We meet Aiden. He's like a basketball player. Young guy. To see Travis, like, get as big as he is today is, like, inspiring to me. I was like, man, like someone who, like, grew up in the same city as me.

[Patrick Hines]

Travis Scott. Yes, sir.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Can take over, like, the music industry. It was like he was repping us. People from Houston are so proud of this guy and so excited to go be a part of this festival that he's created.

[Patrick Hines]

And Aiden in particular, he says, like, he would listen to Travis Scott before his basketball games. Like, basketball is his whole life. And he says, it's my ticket to college. I'm saying that. Cause it's important later.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

But he, like, Travis Scott was a major part of his life. And so many of these people who we speak to are like, super, super fans. Like, really feel like not. They're not just connected to him because of Houston. Like, that's a big part of it, but just like, he really is a major part of their. And they look up to him.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah. And they love this woman. Kya is saying that she loved that Houston has a little bit of everybody and that Travis Scott was bringing them all together in this festival. A big part of this festival is just being around other people who love the same shit that you love.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And so, like, Travis Scott is holding events all week leading up to the AstroWorld Festival. Like, events and fundraisers. And Travis is on camera talking about, you know, saying all the right things. You know, like talking about giving back to his community. And he says, what's the point of having all this if you can't share it with people? Like, the correct take. Right, right. That was before the whole event.

[Julia Penzavalli]

That was before the event. We meet with this journalist, Mark. He's saying, like, hip hop had always been about going against the system, but Travis Scott was doing something different. He was putting himself in a position to be like, fuck the system in general.

[Patrick Hines]

I love how Mark's like, can I curse? I like, girl, it's Netflix. He's like, oh, yeah, okay, so fuck this.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Whatever. Like, absolutely not.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, hell yeah.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Strict. No cursing zone.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And Coco Dominguez is here. She's a reporter. She's been covering Travis and AstroWorld for a long time. And she's like, he's a hip hop rock star. Like, he's huge.

[Julia Penzavalli]

I want to talk about. We learned that, like, Travis Scott's F are called ragers. That rager element comes from the mosh pits. He tells people like, yo, if you came to a Travis Scott show to look cool, get the fuck out, because it's real. He wants you to turn up that.

[Patrick Hines]

It'S the live experience. It's like seeing him live is beyond intense.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah. And it's all about the Mosh pits. Now, I never have been in a mosh pit. I remember mosh pits from, like, the 90s when I was coming up. And, like, you'd go to, like, a Pearl Jam concert or whatever it was, and there'd be, like, mosh pits. And, you know, my sister did it. I get like. I remember there was, like, a local band that would, like, do concerts in the basement and there'd be mosh pits in the basement.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, yeah. Like, church basement.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah. Or like, literally the basement of Corey Schn's house.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, yeah.

[Julia Penzavalli]

I remember being like, anybody want brownies? They were selling tickets to this, like, thing in his basement.

[Patrick Hines]

I would. I used to go to shows all the time. I like rock shows, hip hop shows. Like, I. So I've seen artists do the right thing that should have been done here. I've been in mosh pits. I've been injured in them. I've been taken care of well in them. There's sort of an etiquette to this kind of thing. If you grow up in a certain kind of, you know, like, I've been. Whatever. I'm not an expert on anything by any means, but I'm just saying I've been to different venues and seeing all different types of music. And usually especially the heavier the music is, the more there's an etiquette amongst the crowd.

[Julia Penzavalli]

And the idea that they're called ragers makes it sound like they're supposed to get violent in the mosh pit.

[Patrick Hines]

Based on what we've learned, that's what Travis is encouraging.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Like it. I'm just going to go.

[Patrick Hines]

I like it.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Grandpa's going to say he doesn't like.

[Patrick Hines]

It, but Mark the journalist says they look at him like he's a God. And I just wrote, oh, no. Yeah, that's not good. Travel down, girl.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Drip Drop is a new sponsor this month. I'm so excited. It's a million degrees out. I'm going to the gym again. I got to stay hydrated.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Everyone knows that electrolytes are super important. We've been saying that forever, but, like, there are so many electrolyte powders on the market that they either don't taste good or they make all these claims and they don't actually work as well as they claim to be working well.

[Julia Penzavalli]

That's the thing. Drip Drop uses a precise ratio of sodium electrolytes and glucose for rapid fluid absorption. This is all about their proven fast hydration. So it delivers three times the electrolytes and half the sugar versus the leading sports drinks that's so important.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And you can feel it.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah. I got out of the shower after the gym the other day. I was like, why do I have so much energy? I was like, oh, my God. Thank you. Drip Drop.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. It's trusted by firefighters. It's trusted by medical professionals. It's trusted by over 90% of top pro and college sports teams.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah. Can I tell you one other thing? Because you know, we love science on this podcast. Drip Drop is a breakthrough hydration formula which is backed by Science Girl. It's the science.

[Patrick Hines]

And they have so many fun flavors to choose from. They have over 16 original formula flavors. They have eight zero sugar options as well.

[Julia Penzavalli]

And they've got those super flexible subscription options because you don't want to run out of this stuff. You're never stuck without your proven fast hydration.

[Patrick Hines]

I just want to talk about the flavors really quick because they have their variety packs I love. So they have, like the bold variety pack, which has berry and lemon and orange and watermelon. So it's like you can't go wrong. They also have the tropical variety pack. So it has mango and passion fruit, pina colada. I love passion fruit. So you got a lot of options, everybody.

[Julia Penzavalli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Penzavalli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Penzavalli]

Now get the pina colada. It's something you need it delicious.

[Patrick Hines]

So Travis Scott, like, wants the crowd to go crazy. He's very, very clear about that. And everyone listens to what he has to say. So, like, he wants there to be a crazy, crazy mosh pit, but then he even takes it to another level.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Right?

[Patrick Hines]

So Travis Scott's Astroworld Festival, Mark says it took him into outer space, into the heavens. I'm like, no pun intended, right, Mark? I see you, girl. So the first one happened in 2018 and it just exploded.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And by 2019, it was even bigger. The artists were bigger. The Spectacle was bigger. 2020 comes around. There is no as world, obviously. 2021, AstroWorld makes its big return for the first time.

[Julia Penzavalli]

This would be a two day event with a ton of artists playing across the two stages and Travis playing the headline set.

[Patrick Hines]

All of us had been locked up for so long.

[Julia Penzavalli]

This was.

[Patrick Hines]

Let's go get it. It's about to go down. Bigger and better than Ever before. It's a two day event which had never happened before.

[Julia Penzavalli]

People don't remember how ready we all were to get the fuck back out there. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

It's huge. And so he was leaning into. He's not alone. You know what I mean? Like that's. That's what people were dying for. The live music experience again.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah. And like the way that it was going to work was like Travis was going to be the headliner. Obviously we'll get more into this when we get. When we get to the venue. But like he had his own stage.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Penzavalli]

That like nobody else is going to get to play on except for him.

[Patrick Hines]

Bad and stupid idea.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yes. Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So we meet Raul, Marcel and Manuel and they're concert goers. They are best buds.

[Julia Penzavalli]

These guys love each other. So nothing made them happier than the idea of like a boys trip to.

[Patrick Hines]

See Travis Scott to like plan their outfits and their shades.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Fellas. They were like giddy. They planned this whole thing together. And they're here to tell us about their friend Rudy because Rudy was also going to Astroworld with them. And this was Rudy's first time. But the other three had already been.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Had been before.

[Patrick Hines]

So.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Rudy, Rudy, Rudy.

[Patrick Hines]

I've been ready for this my whole life.

[Julia Penzavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Just like if you want to cry, watch Rudy. And I don't want to hear about how the real guy was a dick. I know. Was he give us the movie.

[Julia Penzavalli]

I know. I saw Rudy in the movie theater on a band trip. That's what kind of nerd.

[Patrick Hines]

I remember Jon Favreau. He's so can we just have Rudy as like a. Just a way.

[Julia Penzavalli]

I think you can.

[Patrick Hines]

You know, it's like things that make you cry. Like listen to Sia Breathe Me or watch the Infidelity of Six Feet under. If you just want to sob. Like, Rudy is a good movie for that. I know the truth. Can you just let us have Rudy? If I want to cry about it.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Is anyone trying to take it from you because you let. You can be.

[Patrick Hines]

The Internet was trying for a long time. Let me the truth about Rudy. Oh, God.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Rudy exposed. Are we going to do the documentary?

[Patrick Hines]

Like, yeah, like that never happened. Like, oh, all the players actually didn't go into the coach's office and put their jerseys. I'm like, oh, you're telling me that was for cinematic. Like, obviously that didn't happen.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Oh my God.

[Patrick Hines]

Give me a break.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Come on, everybody. From the. From the. Give me a fucking break file over here.

[Patrick Hines]

Give me a fucking break.

[Julia Penzavalli]

People. Want into the give me a fucking break file?

[Patrick Hines]

Like, there's plenty, especially today. So sit tight. Get your popcorn. So all of our concert friends are talking about how much they love going to concerts, especially Sophia.

[Julia Penzavalli]

I love her because she is going to nursing school.

[Patrick Hines]

Three weeks before AstroWorld, I had just received my license to practice nursing. And what better way to celebrate than going to AstroWorld Fest? And, like, it was a concert that you didn't want to miss. And, you know it was gonna be fun. She just received her nursing license in 2021.

[Julia Penzavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Hell, yes, Sophia.

[Julia Penzavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

So it's November 5, 2021, morning of AstroWorld. There's videos of all of our friends getting ready. They're doing fit checks. They're super psyched. They're making the drive, they're getting on the plane, they're getting ready in their hotels. Like, just the vibe people couldn't wait.

[Julia Penzavalli]

I gotta tell you, the people in Houston, like, when you get them out in public, they are really fun. Hi, Houston fam.

[Patrick Hines]

Hello.

[Julia Penzavalli]

They do. They're great. They're a great audience. They are very excited and I love them.

[Patrick Hines]

There you go.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Kirby Goldstein is here. She's a photographer. Hi. Kirby shot all of the previous AstroWorld festivals, and this changed her whole career because she says that it proved to Live Nation that she could be part of the festival team.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Do you think she gets a lot of Kirby you enthusiasm, you know, I sure hope not. Could you.

[Patrick Hines]

I sure hope not.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Could you calm down? Is that. Could you, Kirby?

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, we'll tell Kirby to calm down. We're doing that.

[Julia Penzavalli]

That.

[Patrick Hines]

Don't want to do that. Don't want to do that.

[Julia Penzavalli]

I'm just trying to make a pun. I'm trying to make a pun.

[Patrick Hines]

Hi, Kirby.

[Julia Penzavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Sorry about that. So let's get into fucking Live Nation.

[Julia Penzavalli]

So what you're saying is we're not going to say, Kirby, you're enthusiastic? No, we're not. Okay.

[Patrick Hines]

No. And Kirby, I'm looking out for you with that. You know what I mean? You don't want it either.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Who was that lady? I wanted to take me camping. And you're like, you don't have to do that.

[Patrick Hines]

I don't know. But she doesn't have to remind her. It's up to her to extend the invite. And it's okay to not do that.

[Julia Penzavalli]

I'm not doing donuts in a truck on the ice is all I'm saying.

[Patrick Hines]

So Live Nation, Kirby says, they hold so much of this industry in the palm of their hand. If you're working in live music, there's a really high chance that you're working for Live Nation.

[Julia Penzavalli]

So by talking about what happened at.

[Patrick Hines]

AstroWorld, I know that I'm jeopardizing my career. Ultimately, sitting down for the stock could negatively affect her career. So what happened?

[Julia Penzavalli]

I'm confused about that because we're gonna meet a guy named Scott in a minute who like Live Nation hired to be like, what the fuck did we do wrong? And he's here, so I feel like Kirby should be okay.

[Patrick Hines]

But he's like an independent contractor.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And he does like all live events, not just music. Like it doesn't.

[Julia Penzavalli]

I would really like Live Nation. To Kirby. Their attitude about our friends.

[Patrick Hines]

I hope Live Nation. I'm so mad about Live Nation. I know.

[Julia Penzavalli]

For so many reasons.

[Patrick Hines]

If you don't know about Live Nation, they like promot operate. They manage ticket sales for live entertainment internationally. Like, yeah, but they also own and operate the venues.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Used to be that that's where artists could make their money was going on tour. And now Live Nation takes such a big percentage of that.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, Live Nation merged with Ticketmaster in 2010. And it was a very sad day for live music lovers everywhere. The Department of Justice approved the merger. And now because of the ERAS tour fiasco about the ticket sales, they are now filing all of these lawsuits against them because they're like a devastating monopoly. And I'm like, I'm unsure how you didn't see that coming in 2010, especially because Pearl Jam has screaming about this since 1992.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Wait, tell me about the era. What happened with the eras tour?

[Patrick Hines]

It was a fucking mess. Taylor had to like release and I mean, and it's not the first and only time it's happened. It's just because she's the biggest star in the world that like, when she talks about shit like the Department of Justice is like, oh, yeah. But they're a total monopoly because they have this like, quote, long standing policy obligating artists to accept their concert promotion services if they want to play their amphitheater. So it's like you play by their rules or you don't play venues at all. John Oliver actually did a really great piece on this in like 2022.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Like you have to pay them for the promotion they're making you take.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Wow.

[Patrick Hines]

Like you like, it's either it's all Live Nation or no Live Nation at all. And they have a monopoly. And it's basically like Pearl Jam fought Ticketmaster and like lost in the 90s, right.

[Julia Penzavalli]

I remember that?

[Patrick Hines]

They were like, okay, fine, like we'll just do it ourselves.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Right. And then there's Ticketmaster's, like, you can't play any of our venues then.

[Patrick Hines]

And so then they had to do like these, what they call like alternative venues and do everything on their own. And like there, there were interviews I remember with Eddie Vedder saying like, there were so many times where it, if Ticketmaster was handling this, this wouldn't be a problem.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

And they just couldn't tour the way they wanted to and they had to cancel dates. And so it's a nightmare. It's like not cool. It's bad for the fans.

[Julia Penzavalli]

I mean, after about we're here because.

[Patrick Hines]

Of it, you know, so it's really bad. So 8am the morning of AstroWorld. Kirby, the photographer says, we were instructed to lean into the chaos.

[Julia Penzavalli]

But you know what? Like that can also be okay. Like we are going to see how chaotic this was by design from the minute one. Well, also, so I'm just saying, like in another setting, like, like the chaos could be fun, you know, like if it's fun chaos.

[Patrick Hines]

Because Live Nation used footage from previous chaos to promote the event. Footage from 2019 of fans breaking down fences to get in.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Also fun note, there was a crowd surge at the 2019 AstroWorld as well.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Oh, really?

[Patrick Hines]

Three people were trampled and hospitalized. So they knew. And they're using this footage of people ripping down the fences. Like it's a good thing. That's the problem.

[Julia Penzavalli]

And it's also the fences they're using are like chain link fences.

[Patrick Hines]

It's like nothing.

[Julia Penzavalli]

It's designed to be Destroy.

[Patrick Hines]

So at 10am the gates open and the gates are kind of far away from the stages. So everyone is like running to the stages. Some people have like smoke sticks and smoke bombs.

[Julia Penzavalli]

You can see them trampling the metal detectors. Like right away the metal detectors are just getting knocked over. So like any kind of weapon could be on the ground.

[Patrick Hines]

Definitely not checking pockets and bags. Like, no way.

[Julia Penzavalli]

You don't even see an attendant at the gates at this point because they're.

[Patrick Hines]

Knocking the security down. Like the security people down. Speaking of, Jackson and Samuel Bush are here. They're a nephew and uncle.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Oh my God, I love them so much. Yeah. And like Jackson is saying that he saw a post from a friend's social media asking if anybody wanted to work the Travis Scott concert. I mean, this all happened in like literally one and two o' clock in the morning, the day before the concert. They hit us back and told us to wear all black and be there for 5:30 in the morning. And we were there. He says, yes, I want to do it. And then like shows up two hours later.

[Patrick Hines]

Now I just want to slow down on this because, like, security clearly wasn't a priority.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Oh, clearly.

[Patrick Hines]

Is there a world where, like, someone dropped out last minute and this is just a little piece of it? I don't know. We're not told the details, but looking for people on Facebook is flimsy.

[Julia Penzavalli]

100%. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Jackson confirms this because he says the only instructions they were given were given by the people directly working.

[Julia Penzavalli]

He never met anybody involved in the thing.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, I'm not hearing anything about a professional security company, which is what an event like this needs.

[Julia Penzavalli]

But I think we're saying the same thing is that it was designed to go. It was designed to be chaos.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Because they thought it would look good.

[Patrick Hines]

And they're told, like Jackson and his uncle are told they're going to rush the gates. So get ready.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And that's exactly what at one point.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Jackson goes, these fans are so little, but there's so many of them.

[Patrick Hines]

They're so little. What are they, Rudy? So this footage is terrifying. Like, there are people running, people with smoke. It's 10am like, people running with the smokesticks.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Already knocking things over. They're screaming, they're pushing security. People are already falling over and getting trampled. We're seeing it. It's ten in the morning.

[Julia Penzavalli]

I will. I understand that there is, that there are people who want to go to things like this. I will never understand that. I will never understand why anybody want wants to be a part of this kind of chaos.

[Patrick Hines]

And Jackson's like, same. Because Jackson the security guard is like, this is more than I bargained for. It's not how it was pitched. It's not what he thought. And he kind of looked around like, oh, and there's no way he can.

[Julia Penzavalli]

There's nothing they can do.

[Patrick Hines]

There's no way he can do his job as a security guy with this type of energy. Like he, he says it, travel down the road.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Back again, girl. Remy is back. Look. This is that custom fit night guard that Steve did that he's totally obsessed with.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. It's the best way to protect your teeth. And Remy is 80% less than the dentist and it's way easier. Tell me what Steve did.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Here's how it works, right? So you receive your impression kit from Remy. You do the whole thing at home.

[Patrick Hines]

Home.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Remy gives you the step by step instructions. To get your perfect impression, then you send it in. Remy ships your custom fit nightguard made in the US In Las Vegas. You get your night guard back and start protecting your teeth right away.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. So you, dear listener, might be part of the 30% of Americans who grind their teeth at night. And if you're one of those people, your smile needs protection.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yes. You know, Steve is so used to having to go to the dentist to get this done. It's something like, it takes time. It costs a lot of money. Not with Remy fam.

[Patrick Hines]

And Remy is so confident that you'll get a perfect fit. They offer you you a 45 night perfect fit guarantee or your money back. I love that because, like, maybe you're grinding your teeth some nights and not others. You never know. You need those 45 nights to be like, oh, wait, I love this.

[Julia Penzavalli]

I think Justine was, like, nervous. Like, I'm doing this impression myself. It's not going to be perfect. It was absolutely perfect. So, fam, like I was saying, there's no waiting rooms, no overpriced bills. Just a better way to protect your teeth while you sleep.

[Patrick Hines]

Try Remy risk [e-mail] TCO and use code TCO to get up to 50% off your night guard at checkout.

[Julia Penzavalli]

That's 50% off at shop r e m I.com/tco with code TC.

[Patrick Hines]

Thank you, Remy, for sponsoring this episode, protecting those smiles, loving it.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Absolutely. We meet Mark Lentini. He's the former commander of the Houston police. And he said that AstroWorld had paid the Houston Police Department to provide security. But he's very clear that the cops had no control over planning or strategy or the security guards. He says, quote, we were there for law enforcement.

[Patrick Hines]

They were there to.

[Julia Penzavalli]

But it's like, how I know, you know?

[Patrick Hines]

And Mark. But he says what was going on.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Was so totally predictable. There didn't seem to be any kind of contingency plans to mitigate it. They lost all control of the entry points. People were getting in unticketed, and it was just overwhelming chaos.

[Patrick Hines]

They lost all control at the entry points, which is a major security issue on its own, by the way.

[Julia Penzavalli]

He said that there were so many breaches of protocol. People were getting in unticketed.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Penzavalli]

So people were climbing over the fence wherever they are. Like you would think the most important thing in a, in an event like this would be able to know the number of people that are there. You want that one guy with a thing, you know what I mean? Count them as they're Coming in. May I just tell you, you will never see this kind of insanity at an Indigo Girls concert. You are always sick. In fact, most people are just sitting. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Although some people who go to Indigo Girls concerts, we probably could have used your help.

[Julia Penzavalli]

I know. We need the lesbians.

[Patrick Hines]

Get organized.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Lesbians, where are you? We need you.

[Patrick Hines]

Pull rank. Get some shit done.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Gert, Beth.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Where are.

[Patrick Hines]

Where are you? But the thing is, it was always going to be this way because Travis Scott and Live Nation wanted the chaos.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, they thought it was a good thing. They wanted to use the footage for promotion again.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yes. Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And on top of that, Travis Scott is actually known for this. He has a reputation for this kind of thing.

[Julia Penzavalli]

This is. We see the examples of this. We're at some concert somewhere where he is crowd surfing. Travis Scott is crowd surfing. Some kid tries to steal his shoe. Travis Scott is pointing into the mosh pit, telling the other mosh pit attendant to beat this kid's ass. He's telling, Yes, I called them mosh pit attendees.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Screaming, fuck him up.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Fuck him up.

[Patrick Hines]

So Travis Scott is saying this. The crowd is immediately chanting back and beating this person up. To be clear, Travis Scott told his fans to beat up another one of his fans. And they did it.

[Julia Penzavalli]

And they did it.

[Patrick Hines]

And Travis Scott was also spitting on this man. In Lollapalooza 2015, Travis Scott is arrested after fans storm Lollapalooza stage. He's. He was charged with disorderly conduct. He was, like, encouraging all of this. So right after Lollapalooza, when he's arrested. Switzerland, 2015, that's when he's telling the crowd to be. But he's spitting on this guy. Arkansas, 2017, he's arrested for inciting a riot.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

New York, 2017, right after Arkansas. I want to slow down on this because they don't really give you details here.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

We hear Travis Scott saying, they're going to catch you. Don't be scared. I thought he was taunting people, like, they're going to catch you and beat you up. It's almost worse.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

He's encouraging people to jump from the second and third floor balconies.

[Julia Penzavalli]

I saw that.

[Patrick Hines]

What they don't mention here is that a guy named Kyle Green was pushed from the third floor balcony, fell to the ground. As he was lying on the ground, Travis demanded, ordered his security to drag him to the stage so that Travis Scott could give him a ring.

[Julia Penzavalli]

What?

[Patrick Hines]

Kyle Green sued Travis Scott because he ended up, quote, in a Wheelchair after suffering injuries that included fractured vertebrae, a broken left wrist, and a fractured right ankle. He was paralyzed on his left side, but has since regained some of his abilities and is now partially paralyzed.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

This is what Travis Scott encourages and wants. He's spitting on his own fans and encouraging his fans to beat up other fans. He's dragging someone who just was pushed. That's not like it's completely unacceptable.

[Julia Penzavalli]

You're just going to a fucking concert.

[Patrick Hines]

It's unacceptable. But the point is, it was a known thing, right? And if Live Nation is the number one name in the music industry, they fucking knew.

[Julia Penzavalli]

We meet this guy Scott.

[Patrick Hines]

Scott.

[Julia Penzavalli]

I love him.

[Patrick Hines]

I love him. He's a crowd safety expert. He's like, generally speaking, you don't want to go to a concert with me. I'm like, scott, I beg to differ. Are you kidding?

[Julia Penzavalli]

Come to the Indigo Girls concert with me where everybody's just sitting.

[Patrick Hines]

I'll be the safest girl in the room next to Scott.

[Julia Penzavalli]

I'll be like, no, no, no, no, no.

[Patrick Hines]

That way.

[Julia Penzavalli]

But I feel like he probably has a hard time going into crowds on his own because he how we can go wrong.

[Patrick Hines]

He has a very cool job because.

[Julia Penzavalli]

He says, I provide public safety management.

[Patrick Hines]

In high risk environments. In an ideal scenario, we're brought on for the site design of an event, but more often, than not, we're brought.

[Julia Penzavalli]

On after some sort of critical incident has occurred. More often than not, we're brought in after some sort of critical event has.

[Patrick Hines]

Occurred, which is not the point.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Hire this guy. Hire him to design your event so that nobody fucking dies.

[Patrick Hines]

Instead of him telling you, like, here's why this happened. Hire him so that it doesn't happen, you fucking idiot.

[Julia Penzavalli]

And he says, in the aftermath of the AstroWorld tragedy, I was asked to work with Live Nation to see what happened. He said he wanted to look honestly at what had occurred, so they give him all of the data.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, that's great. But doing an event with Travis Scott is the number one mistake.

[Julia Penzavalli]

That's the number one mistake. I love that this guy's allowed to be here. I love that he didn't, like, sign a gag order or whatever.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. He receives what he calls a treasure trove of evidence. This is really important. I want to slow down on his wording here. He says, this is not a case of missing red flags. This was a case of ignoring glaring warning sirens. He ignored ignore blaring sirens. Like, these words are carefully chosen, and they really hit home. Like, oh, they just, like, allowed this to happen.

[Julia Penzavalli]

There's a reason why this shit happened. I mean, Remember when like 150,000 people showed up to see Chapel Roan at Lollapalooza last year? And nobody died.

[Patrick Hines]

Nobody died.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Nobody complained about it.

[Patrick Hines]

And that's not to say that if they did everything right. Air quotes. That no one would have gotten hurt, obviously. But the tragedy as we know it at Asherworld, it was completely 100% avoidable.

[Julia Penzavalli]

And we're going to see some diagrams of it. And it is like. Even the animated diagrams make you want to catch.

[Patrick Hines]

It's like they sent these people into a trap.

[Julia Penzavalli]

It's terrifying.

[Patrick Hines]

So 4:30pm, day one. Everyone seems happy. It's Astroworld. It's a playground. It's like a theme park. Which is kind of the point. Cause Astroworld was a theme park that Travis Scott loved when he was a kid. Yeah.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Everyone's having a really good time. Everyone's dancing around. All my notes are in pink here. Which means go, go, go.

[Patrick Hines]

That what means go, go, go.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Everything's good.

[Patrick Hines]

We're having a good time. Everything's cool. Except Arturo, who's a concert goer.

[Julia Penzavalli]

I was a really big Travis Scott fan and I loved the energy of brings. I mean, if you really love the artists and you love what they stand for, you just want to represent them in any way you can, you know? So we waited four hours in line for the merch. It was like under the scorching sun too.

[Patrick Hines]

It was pretty bad in the scorching sun. And I'm like, someone tell me how much water was at this show. 50 bucks.

[Julia Penzavalli]

But also like, that sounds like poor. Four hours to hire 25 more people at the merch desk.

[Patrick Hines]

I know.

[Julia Penzavalli]

You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

But they. Over. There were thousands of people there. And then unticketed people. Tens of thousands of people.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Imagine the amount of money that guy made just in fucking T shirts that day.

[Patrick Hines]

You know, I can't even imagine what the price point was for water.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

For a two day.

[Julia Penzavalli]

And you know, I would say you're not allowed to bring anything in with you, but there's nobody checking anybody running in.

[Patrick Hines]

But no one's thinking about hydrating.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So 7:45pm SZA is performing. Everyone's loving it.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Travis Scott is about to come on and everyone is trying to get the best spot, which everyone is telling us is as close to the front as possible.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah. Because again, like his stage had been closed off all day. So SZA is performing at a different stage. And then as. As her Set is end. People are leaving that stage to go to the other stage, run over.

[Patrick Hines]

And, like, it's already chaotic just moving from one stage to another because people are already getting separated from their friends.

[Julia Penzavalli]

And the thing about it, as I understand it, it's a T shape, right? So, like, you're meant to enter from the middle and then go either left or right in an orderly fashion. But now you've got people entering from the side and entering from the back. So as everyone's trying to push to the front to get as close as they possibly can, they're pushing on people from all sides.

[Patrick Hines]

But that wouldn't have happened if you just had the stage open.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Right? Right, exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

And I understand you don't want to take an audience away from SZA because everyone's trying. Like, I understand the thought process, but I'm also not fucking defending Live Nation for anything.

[Julia Penzavalli]

No. And it's also just, like, a simple design. Like, they just needed to design this better.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Yeah. So Jose Villegas is here. He's an emt. He was excited. He's like, I'm gonna go to the show, enjoy some music, make some easy money. I'm like, no, girl, this is not the ERAS tour.

[Julia Penzavalli]

I did not like this guy's attitude one bit. He's like, when I agreed to work.

[Patrick Hines]

AstroWorld, I was excited. I thought I would just show up.

[Julia Penzavalli]

As a paramedic, Just walk around, enjoy some music, make some easy money, you know? Cause I've always told myself, like, if I have to do real paramedic work, someone else is having a really bad day. If I'm doing paramedic work, it means somebody else is having a real bad day. Excuse me.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, he's right.

[Julia Penzavalli]

But I'm like, we are counting on you to, like, what?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Penzavalli]

You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

And Travis had a countdown clock.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Now, Taylor did this, and it was fun and exciting because, like, applause would end by Lady Gaga.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Oh, really?

[Patrick Hines]

And then youn Don't Own Me by Leslie Gore would start playing, and then a clock would appear and get the clock.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Oh, shit.

[Patrick Hines]

So the clock at AstroWorld, however, just made things worse. It added more anxiety. It really was like a countdown clock, but not in the fun. Like, oh, my God, like, Taylor's gonna come out or whoever's gonna come out. Like, it just made everyone's anxiety worse.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Because everyone's just pushing to the front.

[Patrick Hines]

Our counselor friends are saying the crowd quote got tighter.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Let me ask you this. Taylor didn't do, like, standing. Like, she didn't have General standing.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes, she did. And so Natalie, our dear Natalie, when to Ireland, Natalie waited outside for X amount of hours. I don't know how much, but she was right on the bar. She was the first row.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Wow.

[Patrick Hines]

And she was fine. She lived to tell the tale. She has amazing footage of Taylor two feet away. And like everyone was fine. But there's a way to do it. There's a way to organize.

[Julia Penzavalli]

When I saw Lady Gaga at the Monster well at Madison Square Garden, I was on the floor standing and I was totally fine. There's plenty of room.

[Patrick Hines]

It wasn't for every ERAS tour show. It depended on where you went. But like for a decent, like, yes. Like that was a lot of people's experience.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So Travis hasn't even started yet. There are people already smushed, their friends have been separated, which I have to tell you, in an event that big is anxiety inducing anyway.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Where are my friends?

[Julia Penzavalli]

And it's like no one is panicking, panicking yet. But everybody is feeling like they're starting to recognize they can't move. Really. They're kind of stuck where they are.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. And one of our friends says before Travis hits the stage, people are feeling this isn't normal.

[Julia Penzavalli]

This is normal.

[Patrick Hines]

Like this isn't okay.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Travel down, girl.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Function is back. Look, I have signed up for this. I did the blood work. The whole thing about function is that it's a health platform that gives you access to the kind of data that most people never see and the insights to actually take action. So get this. With function, you can test over 160 biomarkers. We're talking heart, hormones, toxins, inflammation and stress and so much more. I was monitoring my testosterone levels, which is something that I felt like I needed to do as I was getting older. Older. But then it was like, oh my God, look at all these other things I can see.

[Patrick Hines]

Right? Well that's the thing. So like function is what happens when healthcare catches up. Cuz things are always moving. We never know. Like, is there a new normal? Has normal changed? The answer is yes. Right, so the first health membership gives you access to over 100 biomarkers, like you said, but it's across the whole body. So like hormones, metabolism, inflammation, heart, liver. And you can add on MRIs and CT scans too.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah. And you get an all in one dashboard. It's perfect. It's so easy to see, it's so easy to navigate. And they give you stats, steps to take if there's action that needs to be taken.

[Patrick Hines]

There's also it's explained in plain language.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So usually you're like, wait, what am I reading? Is this good? Is this bad? Is this not? I don't know.

[Julia Penzavalli]

It's true. Because when you. I hear the word dashboard, you almost instantly lose me because I'm like, I can't read it. No, it's all easy. It's so easy to see and understand.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. So they're just, like, helping you stop guessing.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

It's amazing.

[Julia Penzavalli]

And really, like, see inside your old body.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Penzavalli]

So, fam. Learn more and join using our Link.

[Patrick Hines]

The first 1000 get a 100 credit towards their membership.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Visit functionhealth.com tco or use gift code tco100 and sign up to own your health.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, we've been talking about, like, owning it. Like, owning it. How about your health, too?

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah, yeah. Own it all. Yeah, girl. Quince is back.

[Patrick Hines]

Look, I love Quint.

[Julia Penzavalli]

I know. We all do.

[Patrick Hines]

They have, like, this elevated, kind of luxurious whole line of clothing and pajamas and loungewear.

[Julia Penzavalli]

And she's been wearing the linen shirts for days. He says he's upgraded. He feels like, like an adult now.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, that's the thing. Okay, so I love, like, fancy pajamas.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Totally.

[Patrick Hines]

And it's really rare to find them and sometimes they don't breathe at all. So I. Can I tell you what I ordered?

[Julia Penzavalli]

Please.

[Patrick Hines]

I know everyone's, like, loving summer. I am not. I cannot wait. Like, so I got the.

[Julia Penzavalli]

It's mostly just me. I'm screaming at it at you at all times.

[Patrick Hines]

It's true. So I got the bamboo jersey, long sleeve pajama set. And I got it because I can't wait for those chilly nights where I want to wear, like, long sleeves and long pants. I don't want to open a drawer and have it not be there. So I ordered it early.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Oh, my God, I loved that for you.

[Patrick Hines]

I do, too. Honestly.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Well, listen, we're talking 100% European linen top, starting at 30 bucks. Washable silk dresses and skirts, soft cotton sweaters, versatile warm weather pieces you'll reach for again and again. And I know that we're talking about the women's stuff, but they have a ton of amazing stuff for men. They've got bags, like, there's so much great stuff.

[Patrick Hines]

They have jewelry, accessories, like luggage. They have everything.

[Julia Penzavalli]

They're also awesome. They work directly with top artisans and they cut out the middlemen. So Quint gives you the luxury without the markup. They pass on the savings.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Everything with Quint is half the cost of similar brands. And they show you that when you order, it's like, oh, should be this.

[Julia Penzavalli]

That's right.

[Patrick Hines]

But you're actually paying them.

[Julia Penzavalli]

That's right. So, fam, give your summer closet an upgrade with quints.

[Patrick Hines]

Go to Quince.com TCO for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns.

[Julia Penzavalli]

That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com TCO to get free shipping and 365 day returns.

[Patrick Hines]

Quince.com TCO we love it. Yeah. And you know, I'm wearing those long sleeve pants, like, tonight.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Totally. Wear them to the booth next time. It's chilly in here.

[Patrick Hines]

Look. They're so cozy. I know because I have the short sleeve version too, honestly. So it's 9:02, the music starts, and they're saying that, like, this is so hard.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

That you just feel your body move forward because everyone is pushing. Like, people are having no control over their bodies because the crowd is bigger than everyone.

[Julia Penzavalli]

And it's the kind of thing where we're not quite there yet. But you get the sense that if you go down, you're never getting back up.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, that's what essentially happens.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

It's just so dangerous. So our concert, like, and it's instantly bad.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, from the minute the music starts, like, panic.

[Julia Penzavalli]

They say it felt like an earthquake. You see him do that thing where he comes jumping out of the stage and then it is chaos.

[Patrick Hines]

And our concert friends are saying, like, they're even, like, retelling it now. They're saying, like, I can't breathe. I can't breathe. And they're realizing, like, this is not okay. Like, I'm trapped here. And they were so. Jose, the paramedic was center stage, and people are instantly climbing over the barricade to escape the crowd. Like, instantly. And this is typical. It's why they have paramedics and security at that specific location. This happens at concerts all the time. You should usually have a very easy way to get out of a mosh pit if you're feeling overwhelmed. If you're not having a good time, like, fine. But not to this magnitude.

[Julia Penzavalli]

No.

[Patrick Hines]

So Jackson, the security guard is essentially.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Saying, like, it was crazy. Anywhere you look, you've seen somebody either hyperventilating, changing colors or that wanted help out of there.

[Patrick Hines]

Everywhere you looked, someone was suffering.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

It's so scary.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Kirby, the photographer confirms this. She's like, I was seeing people.

[Julia Penzavalli]

She's like, in a protected press area. And then, like. But again, people are climbing over them. That wall she's like, I'm trying to do my job. But she's like, as I'm looking into the crowd, I'm realizing how really bad it is in there.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. And so, like, just to break down this, like, stage setup. So Travis Scott had his own stage. It was unused all day until his performance, which meant that thousands of people are rushing to this one spot at the same time, which is already bad and stupid.

[Julia Penzavalli]

It was unused but closed. It's not like you could go camp out at your spot all day long.

[Patrick Hines]

So everyone was waiting, oh, what time is it? So I can run and get separated from my friends and be in a dangerous situation. But to make it all worse, they were. Everyone was coming to the sides. So Scott, the safety guy is explaining they were pushing into a T shaped barrier system and it created a trap.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And he says the compression built and built and people could not escape because.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Just to make it really clear, it wasn't a pass through. You would go into the T shape, but then you'd hit a barricade.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Penzavalli]

And it wasn't even like you could just climb over the barricade and get into like a protected area. Like, it was literally up against a wall. So you're literally being smushed into a wall.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. This was 100% avoidable.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Again, not to say that no one. There would have been zero injuries, but not the magnitude that we know. We would not be talking about the astroworld tragedy in a documentary.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Right, Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

So, like, we're seeing all these videos from people's phones in the crowd.

[Julia Penzavalli]

And it's like, crazy.

[Patrick Hines]

It's really hard, like, because people are getting thrown to the ground and then they can't get back up.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

And they're being trampled.

[Julia Penzavalli]

We hear from Raul, Martial, Manuel, the three guys who are in the boys trip because they were with Rudy and Rudy was behind them. But all of a sudden they. They're all separated and now like, and they're all also experiencing the whole, like, can't breathe situation.

[Patrick Hines]

And Aiden is telling us about his friend Bri.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And she, like, he can tell. Oh, my God, she can't breathe. She gets knocked to the ground. Aiden also gets knocked to the ground.

[Julia Penzavalli]

He says, I was like the second layer. It was the people under me and then me falling on my back and then people just stacking on top of me. And I feel like the more I kept fighting it, the more I was wasting energy. Just like if you're like holding your breath underwater, all those pains, all those, like, panicking Moments. I'm sorry, I'm just.

[Patrick Hines]

Aiden can feel it now telling us. He's like, I felt the oxygen leaving. And Aiden, like, today, like, talking about it, like, needs to catch a break.

[Julia Penzavalli]

He needs a break. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And it's like this footage. Like, I just started crying. Like, people just screaming. Like, the absolute, like the urgency and the panic and people saying, help as many as they can, as fast as they can, as loud as they can.

[Julia Penzavalli]

And the thing that we're going to learn too, is that, like, this is only happening in one section of the venue. Everything else is normal everywhere else.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And people are calling 91 1. Like, the sheer terror in this person's voice. The sheer.

[Julia Penzavalli]

And like, she's saying to the 911 operator, like, people are being crushed. Like, it's really dangerous. And the dispatcher is like, well, what are you reporting exactly? And she's just like, there's too many people in the room.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm scared and I need help.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

So Aiden gets rescued, but he's like, okay, where are my friends? Like, where's Michaela? Did Bri get out? Because Bri got knocked over too.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Now Aidan is trying to stop the show.

[Julia Penzavalli]

And we see this. We see the camera phone videos of Aiden climbing onto the camera platform.

[Patrick Hines]

Really famous footage.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Is it really okay?

[Patrick Hines]

Like, he's screaming and he's like, people are fudgeing, dying. He's begging a camera guy to help him.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

People are screaming at Aiden to shut the fuck up.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Get off.

[Patrick Hines]

Is anyone okay?

[Julia Penzavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

What is wrong with you? I know, like, crowd mentality is fucking wild. It is, like, to be yelling at Aiden, who's begging for help, like, no one's okay.

[Julia Penzavalli]

And he's clearly not fudged up. Like, at first you can tell they think he's just like, some crazy person, but he's like, no, no, no, no, no. People are dying and they're trying to, like, arrest him.

[Patrick Hines]

And one other person joins Aiden and is screaming at Travis Scott to try to help. They have, like, their arms and X's, like, trying to get anyone's attention. And I'm just thinking, like, can you imagine? Like, you just survived this horrible ordeal. Yes.

[Julia Penzavalli]

You don't know where your friends are.

[Patrick Hines]

It's still going on. People are hurt. You can't find your friends. There's a massive concert going on. No one can hear you. You're begging for help.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, I've had anxiety dreams like this, so I can't imagine actually living it. I know, like, chaos of, like, it's so loud. It's so enormous. Like, the whole scene is enormous. You don't know where your friend are. You. You are literally catching your breath and no one is listening to you.

[Julia Penzavalli]

He also just survived by the skin of his teeth. You know what I mean? He's thinking he should be dead. And he. You can see the look on his. He cannot believe that nobody is like. He's like, I survived to save people, and now nobody is listening to me.

[Patrick Hines]

I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't remember that he did it.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Oh, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Like. Like, if he. If he just was so. Like that. That trauma kicks in and you're just like. He just like, oh, wow, I did that. He's like seeing it on video.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So Jose, the EMT is doing CPR on someone who does not have a pulse, and he's trying to shock them back to life. And he's saying, like, I needed a lot of stuff. Now this is happening right by the barricade in front of the stage. Mere feet away from Travis Scott.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, literally right under his nose.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yes. And he gets on the radio to say that he's got a guy. He's doing CPR because he's got a guy in cardiac arrest. And the command center is so shocked, they make him repeat it. They're like, what? What's going on?

[Patrick Hines]

And now Sophia, the nurse.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Who two seconds ago was under the crowd. Think this is where I'm going to die. Is now up and she starts helping people.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And she starts in action.

[Julia Penzavalli]

She's like, oh, my God, I just graduated nursing school. I gotta. I gotta help people. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

She tells the story of saving someone's life. So this person had a really, really faint pulse. I grab his legs and I just remember, like, putting them up. I'm doing sternum rubs. I was like, I really hope this works. Like, I really, really hope this work. And then his chest went from not moving to, like, rising and falling. His chest started moving and his eyes open up and we learn. As she's telling the story, oh, my God, I'm going to cry. It's our friend Arturo. It's Arturo who was on the stuck on the merch line for four hours. But, like, he's been here with us the whole time. And Sophia saved his life. I was crying. And Arturo explains he had a fucking heart attack. Like, he passed out and Sophia saved him.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Now it's 9:42. Travis is on the platform and all of a sudd. He stops the show because he can see a guy passed out in the mosh pit.

[Patrick Hines]

Now, the show has been going on for 40 minutes, and I want to say AstroWorld had been declared a mass casualty situation at 9:38. This is 9:42.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So Travis Scott kept performing for 37 minutes after the whole AstroWorld thing was. Was declared a mass casualty.

[Julia Penzavalli]

And do you think he knew that's.

[Patrick Hines]

What we're going to dive into?

[Julia Penzavalli]

I guess, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So at 9:42, Travis Scott finally notices someone passed out. And he, like, barely stops the show and he's riffing and saying. Yeah, with auto tune.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

He's not really checking in. There's no sense of urgency.

[Julia Penzavalli]

No.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, the sound of this auto tune makes me want to rip my skin off.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Me too.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, he's not asking the crowd if they're okay.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah. They do mention at some point the idea that if the show is fully stopped, it might cause crowd panic.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, yeah.

[Julia Penzavalli]

I don't know anything about this. I do wonder if that's why he keeps singing so that it's not just like a silence.

[Patrick Hines]

I got to tell you, there are so many documented stories. I've seen some of them of artists on stage stopping a show or getting someone help or figuring it out. That does not cause chaos. If everything just stopped and Travis Scott disappeared, fine.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, we saw Taylor do it in, like, Argentina or whatever. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, and it happens. It's been happening since the beginning of concert time.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, you know how to command a stage. You know how to figure it out. And if you see someone and look, Travis is watching this person get carried out. I don't know if this person that we're seeing is a victim of this tragedy, but this person does not look like they're alive.

[Julia Penzavalli]

No. And somebody says that. Somebody says normally you see people carried out out. They're all nestled in the person, or they got their arms or legs and they're taking them out. I've never seen anybody carried out the way that this kid got carried out. I've never seen anyone get carried out the way this guy. They look like they're carting a dead body like this.

[Patrick Hines]

And the crowd is chanting, stop the show. They're holding up exes with their arms. They're doing anything they can to communicate with Travis. Stop the show around this person. Like, he can see them. And so I saw, like, a lot of these videos, videos today, and it's really awful. Like, he was right there.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And this chaos is unfolding and there are people, like, jumping and dancing on top of ambulances. Like, the lights and sirens are on. Like, people are suffering. People are being carried out.

[Julia Penzavalli]

People are being killed.

[Patrick Hines]

What kind of asshole are you to jump on a fucking ambulance?

[Julia Penzavalli]

I know. Like, I know.

[Patrick Hines]

But the point is, like, he saw people trying to get his attention, and not just in a way where it's like, oh, you're a famous person. I want your attention.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

People were suffering.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yes. Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And he's still, like, weirdly singing an auto tune, like, trying to, quote, figure out what to do. I'm like, there's one option here.

[Julia Penzavalli]

You just stop, right? Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, you just say, are you okay? What's going on? You like, oh, wait, I got to listen to my ear. Hold on, everyone. Like, I want to make sure everyone's safe. There are a million things to do.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Because we also learned that, like, we are told that any of these following people could have stopped the show. The police, ems, or anybody from Live Nation. And then we're told, wait, that's actually not. Not the case.

[Patrick Hines]

I don't know. Because Scott, our safety guy, because, like, Travis Scott goes back to performing, and he doesn't say shit. Like, what a piece of shit. But Scott, the safety guy is like, let me tell you how easy it would have been for someone to stop the show, because it's literally a push of the button.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

You just override it.

[Julia Penzavalli]

But Scott was saying that, like, according to the event operations plan, which he has seen, there were only two people who were authorized to stop the show from Live Nation, and nobody can find them. Like, yeah. And you would think, like, also, Travis Scott can stop his own show. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

I was like, wait, wait, wait. Are they trying to say that Travis Scott couldn't, for whatever reason, stop the show? Bullshit.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Absolutely.

[Patrick Hines]

Artists stop shows all the time. They break up fights, they call for security, they make sure people are okay. Like, it's standard behavior.

[Julia Penzavalli]

And, like, we are told that, like, everybody's on the radio looking for the manager from Live Nation who can stop the show. Nobody can find him. Where the fuck is this guy?

[Patrick Hines]

I don't know. It's. I think that's, like, a weird thing, because I just don't buy it.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So, like, Travis Scott could have stopped it. He didn't stop it. And instead he's riling up the crowd.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Right?

[Patrick Hines]

So Jose the EMT saves that person's life that he was telling us about with the cpr, but he's in the medical tent, and he, like, takes. Takes a breath, feels relief, but then looks up and it's almost like in slow motion.

[Julia Penzavalli]

And he's just like, it's a war zone. And when I look up to assess.

[Patrick Hines]

What'S going on around me to my.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Right, there's two other patients being worked on. Behind me there's another patient being worked on. And if I look down the medical tent, there were two more patients being worked on down the medical tent, there were two more. And this is where Scott says, at 9:51, the evidence shows that the manager from Live Nation finally went backstage to talk to the audio engineer. Now the audio engineer is actually in Travis Scott's ear.

[Patrick Hines]

We have the transcript.

[Julia Penzavalli]

And we have the transcript. The manager from Live Nation is speaking to the audio engineer and we have the transcript. But this, this engineer can, can speak to Travis Scott in his ear at any time.

[Patrick Hines]

So the transcript is the manager saying to the audio engineer, we have four active cpr. Two are most likely dead. It's very, very bad. There are more crush victims than I have ever seen in my 25 year career. We have to have a discussion in Travis's ears letting him know what's going on. We need to shut this thing down in eight minutes at 10 o'. Clock. First of all, why are we waiting eight minutes?

[Julia Penzavalli]

Why are we waiting eight minutes?

[Patrick Hines]

Shut the fuck down. Right, so Scott, the safety guy says the audio engineer can speak to Travis Scott in his ears.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

We don't know what was said to Travis Scott, but we know what the manager said to the engineer. So we know what the engineer should have communicated to Travis.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Right. And then we lear. There's now another conversation that happens between the police and Live Nation, allowing the concert more time to continue.

[Patrick Hines]

Live Nation is fighting for more time.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Trying to keep the show going.

[Patrick Hines]

And just when it couldn't get any worse, Drake comes on stage. No, Kendrick would never.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Okay, but we like Kendrick.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Ok. Ok.

[Patrick Hines]

I love Kendrick.

[Julia Penzavalli]

You have to have some grace for me. I don't know anything.

[Patrick Hines]

If anyone ever says quick, Drake or Kendrick, the answer is always Kendrick.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Did I ever tell you about the Jewel Indigo girls beef from 1999?

[Patrick Hines]

Yes, you have.

[Julia Penzavalli]

No, I didn't. Because it didn't happen.

[Patrick Hines]

Of course.

[Julia Penzavalli]

You were trying so hard to get me to not tell you the story.

[Patrick Hines]

No, I was gonna say, oh really? What did you punch the ending? Like, what was it on Celebrity Deathmatch? Can you imagine? That would have been a good celebrity deathmatch.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Just grabbing Amy by her mullet.

[Patrick Hines]

Is it never gonna happen? That would have been a great celebrity death match. Totally, totally Celebrity Deathmatch was a clayvation show on MTV late night where they had like celebrities fighting each other in these really, like Mortal Kombat esque ways. The Indigo Girls versus Jewel would have.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Been so you like Sarah McLachlan versus Natalie Merchant. The way they would go after Paula Cole.

[Patrick Hines]

I was waiting for you to be like, well, Jewel went on, I was waiting for you to dive in.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Sheryl Crowe, Fiona Apple, just throwing beer bottles at each other.

[Patrick Hines]

Imagine.

[Julia Penzavalli]

What I'm talking about is like, this is so fudgeing crazy. This is insane.

[Patrick Hines]

It's just unconscionable to continue this performance. And like, I just can't imagine that. No, no, don't look on your face.

[Julia Penzavalli]

And you're like, of course you told.

[Patrick Hines]

Me about that girl. I was 10 times sending you the softball for you to be like, well, to come up with some ins.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Sh. And the Indigo. I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Can you imagine?

[Julia Penzavalli]

I mean, you know what I mean? Like, it's just a bunch of nice ladies singing some folk songs.

[Patrick Hines]

Drake, I know. Travel down, girl.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Rocket Money is back, fam. You know, we scream about this every week. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps you find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending. It helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, it's. Cancer can be really stressful. And it's also like, I'm a big out of sight, out of mind person, so if I don't see it, it's not really happening, which is like, not any way to live, especially when it comes to your finances.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Totally.

[Patrick Hines]

So Rocket Money shows you all your expenses in one place, including those pesky, pesky subscriptions that you forgot about, you.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Know, so that's one thing. I just signed up for my new credit card and anytime there's like a large purchase, they send me an alert. They send me a monthly recap of like, this is how much money you spent this month. Like, they're really. It's one thing to know you're spending the money money. It's another thing to see it all in one place.

[Patrick Hines]

And then you can be like, oh, I don't want that anymore. Oh, I'm actually not really using that as much as I thought I would know.

[Julia Penzavalli]

And also, this is my favorite part. Rocket Money will even try to negotiate to lower the bills for you. So the app automatically scans your bills to find opportunities to save and then goes to work on your behalf. They will even talk to customer service so you don't have to.

[Patrick Hines]

They totally have your back. So you'll get alerts if your bills increase.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Which is huge.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Or if there's unusual activity in your accounts. Or, like, if you're close to going over your budget, even when you're doing a good job, they'll be like, hey, good job, girl. Keep it up.

[Julia Penzavalli]

I have always been afraid of dealing with my finances. Rocket Money has made it so easy and something that, like, I just understand that I have to do.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And Rocket Money's 5 million members have saved a total of $500 million in canceled subscriptions, with members saving up to $740 a year when they use all of the app's premium features.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Fam. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money.

[Patrick Hines]

Go to Rocket Money.com obsessed today.

[Julia Penzavalli]

That's RocketMoney.com obsessed.

[Patrick Hines]

RocketMoney.com obsessed. Which we are.

[Julia Penzavalli]

We are. Which we totally freaking are.

[Patrick Hines]

Very obvious.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Very obvious.

[Patrick Hines]

I just can't imagine that no one is running backstage. Like, really, the chaos.

[Julia Penzavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

The energy of the chaos, like, the bad chaos, like, didn't seep in backstage. No one knew.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Oh, I know.

[Patrick Hines]

No one was. And Drake's like, no, I got this. Like, fuck you, Drake.

[Julia Penzavalli]

No. And I'm not making any excuses for anybody, but I think one of the reasons why so many people died and it. And so many people got hurt is because it really was. It seems like this was specific to one area of the. Because at one point, the people that are literally suffocating are looking 30ft that way, and they're like, they're singing and having a good time. Like, this is only happening over here.

[Patrick Hines]

But then it should make it more obvious, almost like it should stand out more. Especially when you're Travis Scott and you're seeing someone lifeless get pulled out of their crowd.

[Julia Penzavalli]

And we see him on that platform, like, 30ft in the air. He can see everything.

[Patrick Hines]

That's what I'm saying. Yeah. And they're desperately trying to get his attention. Like, there was, like, a united front of people, like, communicating, begging for help, like, give me a fucking break. And Scott, the safety guy, says the.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Idea of a performance continuing while even one CPR in progress is underway is.

[Patrick Hines]

Insane, unprecedented, not to mention multiple.

[Julia Penzavalli]

They've got eight people dying of heart attacks.

[Patrick Hines]

Like it's. It's.

[Julia Penzavalli]

And.

[Patrick Hines]

And countless more being injured.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So it's 10:13. Travis Scott ends his set. He started at 9:00', clock, and it was a dangerous nightmare from even before that.

[Julia Penzavalli]

And I'm like, for the people who didn't know what happened, are they Pissed that he only played an hour. Like, I'm wondering, is that going to cause more. Why can't you stay out there and direct the crowd? We need you.

[Patrick Hines]

He did nothing.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

And so like, the concert is over, but the chaos continues. Of course. There are like lights and sirens everywhere. People are needing help. People frantically looking for their friends like they're injured, they're hurt. And so our best buds are our road trip fellas.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

They. You can't find Rudy.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Right. They picked a meeting spot in the group chat and they think Rudy's gonna be there first because he's the one that got separated from us. They all get there and Rudy is nowhere to be seen.

[Patrick Hines]

So because they have been living this chaos for over an hour.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

They just start calling hospitals because they know it's bad. Like, and everyone is sort of saying if you can't find your friend, it's probably bad. Like, that's sort of like the news that's spreading.

[Julia Penzavalli]

The second hospital they call, they say they do have somebody there under that name, but they won't give him any information because they're not family.

[Patrick Hines]

Don't get me started.

[Julia Penzavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Don't I know. Started.

[Julia Penzavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

You're telling me that those four friends weren't family? Fuck that.

[Julia Penzavalli]

100%. Right. So then the friends have to call Rudy's mom and be like, he's in the hospital. You need to call and find out what happened.

[Patrick Hines]

And remember, they didn't live in Houston. They had to travel to get there. They had like a little road trip place. So again, we talk about this all the time. Like, Maria, Rudy's mom, gets this horrifying phone call, grabs Jennifer, who's her daughter and Rudy's sister.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Now they have to like, have this also very dangerous car ride there because there's no way you're thinking straight in this car.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Of course not.

[Patrick Hines]

So the cops are on the news now telling people how to find their friends and loved ones.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, this looks and sounds like the aftermath of a natural disaster.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Exactly like it's. Or like a school shooting. Like something as awful as you can imagine.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. Go to the Reunification center and we have units there to assist. It's a concert.

[Julia Penzavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

So. And. And like how. How is Travis Scott not a major part of this?

[Julia Penzavalli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

How is he not trying to get help and get to point the bottom of it? He is silent backstage with Dr.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Imagine the hero you could be at this point. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

If you come out like you were at the events leading up to this where? Everywhere. You were on the news saying, what's this all for if I can't share it with my community?

[Julia Penzavalli]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

Now your community needs you because you started it, and now there's nowhere to be found. Right.

[Julia Penzavalli]

And so Aiden gets to the hospital. So Aiden had been at the concert with his girlfriend Michaela, and their friend Bri. They can't find Bri. They get to the hospital. We're thinking, like, oh, like they're still trying. Like, it's not over yet. Like, there's still an opportunity for her to be saved. So we're still waiting there until they come back, and they're just like, yeah, we can't do anything. They get to the hospital just in time to see Bree's family being told that she has died.

[Patrick Hines]

It's like. And Aiden says, I felt defeated. I had everything figured out up until that point.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yes. And, you know, also, like, Rudy's mom gets to the hospital, and as soon as she gets there, she finds out that Rudy is dead. And she is speaking in Spanish. And it is so heartbreaking. She said, they stole my light. They stole a part of my heart. And I couldn't bear it then, and I still can't bear it now.

[Patrick Hines]

She says, what am I going to say to my heart? What am I going to say to my soul?

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yes. All I could think about was, like, daisy going to a concert like this someday. I mean, I can't imagine, as a parent, this is how you lose your kid.

[Patrick Hines]

I know. I know. It's horrifying. So November 6, 2021, the news reports that eight people have died. Not to mention the people who were injured physically and not to mention the people who are traumatized.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So their names are John Hilgert, Jake Jurenic, Axel Acosta, Rudy Pena, Brianna Rodriguez. That's Brie.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Franco Patino, Madison Dubisky, and Danish Bake. I sincerely hope I got everyone's name right. I apologize if I didn't. But the cops are back the next day because this is now an active crime scene.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

They're like, we have to secure the perimeter.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Meanwhile, Kirby tells us the next day, Live Nation texts all of their employees that day two isn't happening. And the. And they have a meeting where they let everybody know not to talk to the press, no posting about it, and no public comments.

[Patrick Hines]

And then someone puts out the narrative. Someone allegedly injected a police officer with some type of substance, was injecting other people with drugs, a bad batch of illegal drugs. This narrative is going around that so Many people were on drugs and that's what caused this. Someone was running around injecting strangers with, quote, a bad batch of drugs like Jonestown. I'm like, nice try, Live Nation. Who are you, Nancy Reagan with the drug Fear Monger?

[Julia Penzavalli]

It works on me. We know who it worked on. That's why I'm not going.

[Patrick Hines]

People are running around injecting others and that's why they passed out and died. Fuck you.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Where is the statement from Live Nation saying, how sorry they are and they're gonna get to the bottom of it and like, you know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And then Travis Scott goes on Instagram pretending, oh my God. To be emotional, saying, I wanna send out prayers to the people we lost last night. My fans mean the world to me and I always really wanna leave them with a positive experience. Anytime I can make out anything that' the show and help them and get the help they need. That's not true at all. We have videos of this guy doing the exact opposite, spitting on his own fans and encouraging people to beat them up. Like, you're just lying.

[Julia Penzavalli]

No. Can you imagine throwing a concert where eight people die?

[Patrick Hines]

No.

[Julia Penzavalli]

And you're not personally calling all of the families or whatever not. Maybe they don't want that.

[Patrick Hines]

Hundreds were injured.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

You know who did that? Ariana Grande. When that terrifying tragic event happened at.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Her concert, what happened?

[Patrick Hines]

The terrorist attack. Oh, I don't know anything about Ariana Grande other than sometimes she doesn't want people to photograph one side of her face. And she, like, I just know what, what pop culture, like, what she is in the pop culture zeitgeist. So, like, I don't know, but I know that she did a lot for the families and the victims and she's talked about it and the survivors. Like, that was a traumatic event for everyone involved. And it wasn't like, it's also like.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Maybe Travis don't call you fucking caused this. Like, so don't call it.

[Patrick Hines]

It's a totally fucking apples and oranges situation. Like, because Ariana was a victim, so she didn't have anything to do with any of this. Travis Scott has a reputation for inciting violence.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

Like that's the difference.

[Julia Penzavalli]

But then people keep dying. November 11th, a 9th person dies, then a 10th, a 9 year old boy dies.

[Patrick Hines]

And as this news is coming out, Arturo, our friend Sofia saved his life.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah. Says the apology video was like a slap in the face to me, to everyone who suffered. Like, it wasn't really like, you know, he made it because he had To.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, well, I'm sorry guys. Catch you at the next one. That's what the vibes were to me.

[Julia Penzavalli]

But I'll see what the next one was. The vibe like.

[Patrick Hines]

And now that like the news is coming out that a 22 year old, her name is Barthi Shahani, died because of like what happened to her at Astroworld. She was on life support.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Went to a concert.

[Julia Penzavalli]

The nine year old was on a medically induced coma for days and then he died.

[Patrick Hines]

Same as Ezra Blunt. 10 people in total have died. And Travis Scott is like, has his fucking crocodile tears pretending to be emotional about it.

[Julia Penzavalli]

They should all go to prison for letting a nine year old be at that music festival. I mean, I'm sure that he climbed over the fence with his brother or something. You know what I mean? I'm sure he wasn't like a ticketed, but like, Jesus Christ.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, so. December 9, 2021, Travis Scott does an.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Interview in air quotes.

[Patrick Hines]

He denied. I mean, this is just like it's.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Some friendly, charming the God. So like he's like a really, really, really big deal, but like, but it is clearly meant to be very friendly.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. So he like denies seeing anything, he denies hearing anything. He takes zero responsibility. Even though again, it's not like he was the headliner at Lollapalooza, which he also got arrested for. Like, he also incited violence, but this is his event.

[Julia Penzavalli]

But the other thing saying that, like, I'm just the artist, I just do the creative and I leave the, I leave the logistics to the pros. Like, you are a person who is known to incite this kind of rioting at your shows. And this time it ended up with eight, 10 people dead.

[Patrick Hines]

Also because he says, like, nobody told me anything. Nobody. Like I only heard about everything after the performance. Even if that were true, where's the outrage, right? Like, why are you not screaming about how we have to take down Live Nation?

[Julia Penzavalli]

I was just going to say because somebody does make the good point that like, look, blaming this on Travis does let the like the big wigs off the hook, which we can't do, of.

[Patrick Hines]

Course, you know, but like Travis could have used this.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Well, he could also be the kind of artist who doesn't incite violence at his shows.

[Patrick Hines]

Right? You know, like, if everything he's saying is true, that's why I don't believe him. Like, I didn't know anything because where's the outrage that you didn't know anything until after the show? You should be furious that Live Nation did this and didn't. And kept you in the dark about it. And now you should be at the forefront. Call up Eddie Vedder.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Call up everyone and let's fucking deal with it.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

But he didn't do any of that. And in fact, he was dating Kylie Jennifer Jenner. Like, of course.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Really?

[Patrick Hines]

Of course. And they received, like, a ton of backlash for how they handled this.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Oh, God.

[Patrick Hines]

There was apparently the Kardashians. Whatever. Show. Because they have, like, four versions of their show. They do, but no, like, the Kardashian show.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah, that's what I mean. They have four versions of it.

[Patrick Hines]

Whatever. They faked an entire bullshit storyline, acting like Kylie wasn't at AstroWorld just to avoid, like, dealing with it.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Was she there?

[Patrick Hines]

She was 100% there. And then Kylie was like. Because I think it was. I read all of this today, so I'm probably getting the details wrong.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Well, just get Natalie Grill.

[Patrick Hines]

But the night of AstroWorld was, like, Kris Jenner's big birth party, and Kylie wasn't there, so they had to, like, edit around the fact that she. Because I'm sure they were like, she's with Travis at Astroworld. Like, oh, my God.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

So they had to cut that out. And then she told some lie that she was, like, out doing something really innocent and innocuous and definitely not an Astroworld, like, like, donating my time and my efforts and my money. So they, like, manufactured a fake storyline.

[Julia Penzavalli]

What is wrong with these people?

[Patrick Hines]

Also, their daughter's birthday party is called Stormy World, modeled after Eshrow World.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Wow.

[Patrick Hines]

So, like, they have two kids together, but they're not dating. I fucking hate both of them, so I don't care. But, like, that. That was the other thing, too. They're just so heartless, where it's like.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Can I just tell you? So much of my day is spent sending clips from Instagram of the Kardashians to Natalie and be like, can you tell me what's going on here?

[Patrick Hines]

Don't do that to her. She's so busy. She's so smart.

[Julia Penzavalli]

You're right.

[Patrick Hines]

You're right. She don't, like, infect her with their bullshit.

[Julia Penzavalli]

I know the one where one of them comes down and tries to cut a cuc. Have you seen this one? And then, like, one of the other people who lives in the house, like, oh, you're having a kooky snacky. Like, I. I know, Kim.

[Patrick Hines]

There's people who are dying, obviously.

[Julia Penzavalli]

The one where they go grocery shopping.

[Patrick Hines]

I don't know that one oh, my God. I know one of their. I want to say it's Scott Disick. I think this is like a trending TikTok sound where he's like, do you want a drink? And Kris Jenner's like, oh, yeah, she's doing math. And he's like, I don't know. Life story, yes or no? So that I've seen. Which is like, he's.

[Julia Penzavalli]

I dare Daisy's boyfriend to talk to me like that. I dare him.

[Patrick Hines]

I don't know anything. He's an asshole. We hate him.

[Julia Penzavalli]

I should we text that only don't.

[Patrick Hines]

Waste all these time again. She's like, too smart. She's got better things to do. But where the hell is Live Nation?

[Julia Penzavalli]

I know, right?

[Patrick Hines]

So Travis Scott, Apple Music, Epic Records, they're all being sued for $750 million because they say in the lawsuit this was a predictable and preventable tragedy.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So Scott, the safety guy, tells us what happens because he has all the evidence, including texts and emails between executives.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Was given to him by Live Nation. Like, they do want to get to the bottom of this.

[Patrick Hines]

Sure they do.

[Julia Penzavalli]

So kind of like, why, like, you're. All of this is insane to me.

[Patrick Hines]

He has documents, site plans, thousands of photos and videos, text between executives, emails. He says, I believe AstroWorld 2021 was not an accident. It was an inevitability due to the.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Lack of foresight and the abandonment of.

[Patrick Hines]

Basic safety protocols due to lack of foresight and the abandonment of basic safety protocols. And like I did some side googs and I'll tell you when we get there. But, like, they really, like, almost went out of their way to not have a plan.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Well, one of the things I've been wanting to talk about is that we learned that Live Nation sold 50,000 tick to the event, but the tickets were sold before they'd worked out how this number of people would safely be able to view the Travis Scott concert.

[Patrick Hines]

And they said, his set, specifically his.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Set, like, how are you going to ever fit 50,000 people in that area? And they say following the tragedy, experts for the plaintiffs reviewed the evidence and they say they believe that there was room for just 35,000 people. Now, they sold 50,000 tickets. And then an absolutely unknown number of people broke down the barricades and climbed in by them. Like, you're dealing with at least another 5,6000 people. So you are literally have like 20,000 more people than the area can accommodate.

[Patrick Hines]

Easy.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Like, I mean, it's just any. Anything could have happened.

[Patrick Hines]

Why would you sell tickets before you had a plan. It makes no sense.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

So then we have text between management from like a week or two before the event.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And someone said, we don't know who is texting who, but we know that it's like Live Nation management. Someone says, I feel like there's no way we're going to fit 50k in front of that stage. Especially with all the trees. Exclamation point. Someone says, I'll pull a cap in the morning for us. They knew this was an issue.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Is the point. Were talking about it in writing. They knew it was a problem.

[Julia Penzavalli]

And I just don't understand, like, Scott is going to say that, like, the big error here was that nobody spoke truth to power. And I will never understand that. Like, is it. Aren't you doing a good job to go to your boss and be like, hey, I actually don't know, maybe we should expand the stage somehow or expand the viewing area or whatever. Like, people, you got to speak up.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Penzavalli]

You know what I mean? But it really comes down to all of the mistakes that they made. But then the basic understanding that these people knew and nobody said anything to somebody who would actually do something about it.

[Patrick Hines]

There were so many poor decisions. Like, not only was Travis's stage in.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Danger of being over capacity, this poorly.

[Patrick Hines]

Designed site led to people approaching the.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Stage from the side and getting trapped in an area where they were crushed.

[Patrick Hines]

All 10 fatalities were caused by compression asphyxiation in this area. All 10 deaths were caused by compression asphyxiation in that trap area. Like, all the people who died came from that area that was set up for failure.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Can you. I know we have because we've watched this 10 times. But, like, imagine the feeling of just being.

[Patrick Hines]

I can't rush.

[Julia Penzavalli]

I can't do other people.

[Patrick Hines]

I had to, like, get up and, like, it was really hard. So I can't even imagine what it must have been like there. And like, Live Nation, 100% was aware of what was happening. Because we have texts from minutes before Travis Scott went on stage. Because, remember, we were saying he was on stage for an hour, but it was a nightmare before then.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Someone says, stage right of Maine is getting crushed. This is bad. Pull tons over the railing. Unconscious. There's panic in people's eyes. This could get worse quickly. The response is simply, yes.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Then the person continues. I would pull the plug, but that's just me. I know they'll try to fight through it, but I want this on the record that I didn't advise this to Continue. Someone's going to end up dead.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Wow.

[Patrick Hines]

That's it. Like it's before he came on stage. Friday, 9pm on the dot. This imessage is from wow. So also NPR got a copy of the security and emergency response response plan for the event. And good old npr, of course, I know.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Got their myths on Itenberg.

[Patrick Hines]

Got their myths all over it.

[Julia Penzavalli]

And it says gross. Really? The investigative skills on that one.

[Patrick Hines]

So they said in the article, the 56 page document never once mentions how to handle a dangerous crowd surge. Like what took place during headliner Travis Scott's concert over the weekend. And like the last time he performed at the festival in 2019.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Wow.

[Patrick Hines]

It doesn't address crowd crush or crowd craze moshing or stage diving. And it doesn't discuss anything significant about what to do in an emergency situation. And here is the worst part. Are you ready?

[Julia Penzavalli]

Oh God.

[Patrick Hines]

In the instance of a fatality, staff were told to, quote, never use the term dead or deceased over the radio. Instead they were told to notify event control using the code Smurf. So before something bad even happened, they had a shitty fucking little name for people of real human life as to not alarm anyone who could maybe overhear it. They wanted to keep this quiet. So that's why I'm sure people spoke up. But they were told it never went or as high up the ladder it went. Decisions were made to keep going.

[Julia Penzavalli]

I mean, the people dying then was built into the calculation. People dying was always a part of the plan.

[Patrick Hines]

But don't talk about it.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Right?

[Patrick Hines]

Like that's what. Like how much money can we make from this thing?

[Julia Penzavalli]

Oh my God.

[Patrick Hines]

And the chaos is going to be great for the footage for next year.

[Julia Penzavalli]

And so. So Travis Scott's career is over, right? Like he's never going to perform again.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, we'll get there. So the survivors are of course still struggling. They have survivor's guilt, ptsd, depress anxiety, like. And now they hate those artists they love.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Exactly. And good they should. I hate them.

[Patrick Hines]

All they wanted to do was celebrate music with their friends.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And now like they have to carry that too.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Rudy's mom goes to his grave every single day. This is the most attended cemetery I have ever seen. I know every single grave had like the most beautiful flowers that look like they were just placed there yesterday.

[Patrick Hines]

And his friends tell us about Rudy's funeral.

[Julia Penzavalli]

They say, I think we said that he brought people together.

[Patrick Hines]

After that, he brought already been more.

[Julia Penzavalli]

People together, whole city. His funeral was so big, everyone was there.

[Patrick Hines]

Rudy always Brought people together, even in death.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And Arturo. Okay, so remember.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Oh my God, this is the best.

[Patrick Hines]

Sophia, the nurse saved someone's life. And we're like, who is it? It's Arturo.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

They meet up and.

[Julia Penzavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Crying. And she's like, hey, how are you? And they're like, well, how are we gonna not be friends after this? Like, we're bonded for life.

[Julia Penzavalli]

In love. I feel like one of them must be married. Cause they don't talk about it like that. But I want them. They seem like they love each other so much.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God. I mean, can you imagine the.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Oh my. The stories forever. We know mom and dad. We know you saved us. And we know we get it.

[Patrick Hines]

Aiden misses his friend Brie. He sunk into a depression. He gave up basketball, which was his whole life. And he had associated Travis Scott with basketball. Cause he was listening to his music. Like, it just sucks. Like, it's so sad. And Rudy's mom, Maria says, like, my one wish is that like, this can't. Like, can't we get change to happen?

[Julia Penzavalli]

No.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, and the answer is no.

[Julia Penzavalli]

No, we can't. Because, like, everybody wants change. Everybody wants to see be different. But then we learn. In 2023, a Houston grand jury found that no individual was criminally responsible for the deaths at AstroWorld. All 10 wrongful death lawsuits against Live Nation, Travis Scott and other defendants have been settled out of court for undisclosed amounts. Like, they just gave them all probably a ton of money.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Penzavalli]

So. But like that just. Good, good. I hope. I'm glad those families have the money. But that means nothing is ever going to be done about it.

[Patrick Hines]

In 2024, Travis Scott broke records with the highest selling solo rap concert tour of all time, generating over 200, $210 million. Line break. It was produced by Live Nation.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Like, I don't understand how they're. Why isn't that. Why aren't there acts of Congress? Like, I don't get why there isn't something being done about this.

[Patrick Hines]

So they reached out to Live Nation.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And here's their statement. It's all such bullshit.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

The sell. Here's a Live Nation statement. The sellable capacity for the venue was set by SMG Global and approved by the Houston Fire Department before tickets went on sale. The number of tickets sold and attendees on site did not exceed the approved capacity. The fire department, SMG Global, Houston Police Department were aware of the event plans which were developed in line with safety codes. The festival safety and risk director and the police department representatives agreed to and Executed an early show stop. Like, what is that fucking word salad?

[Julia Penzavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

What does that even mean?

[Julia Penzavalli]

And nothing about it.

[Patrick Hines]

I don't even want range dressing on the salad.

[Julia Penzavalli]

I know, right? But they're not even, like, we're going to look into it, make sure this never happens again. We're so sorry to the families. What a tragedy.

[Patrick Hines]

Nothing.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, Travis Scott never did what you really would want someone in that position to do, which is be outraged and be sad and be devastated. And still he just kept on going. And the thing is, like, Live Nation and Ticketmaster, they have this monopoly. So, like, if you want a tour, you have to deal with them.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

And even, like, Taylor Swift gets fucked because all of her. Like, that was a nightmare. I. I survived the great war of Ticketmaster. I got tickets regularly. She did not turn on dynamic pricing. Like, she did it right. But it still was a failure.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

They still didn't know what the hell they were doing. It was a really stressful time, and it always is. So I'm not like, the deaths and violence. Also, like, I'm saying there are a lot of things here.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So from. And it's started with, like, okay, it was really hard to get tickets, or they overpriced things. And now it's like, well, now people are dying. Like, Kim, there's people who are dying. So, like, what are we going to do about this? How much worse can it get?

[Julia Penzavalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

It's a ticket company, right? Like, we just want to see live shows. So now, like, they're overpriced, and now our lives are at risk. And you're not going to have my back. Like, I paid to be here and I could die.

[Julia Penzavalli]

How does anybody who watches this documentary or listen to this episode enjoy a live concert ever again?

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, it's very scary.

[Julia Penzavalli]

You know how you go to an Indigo Girl show, Everyone is sitting. How dare you. Much smaller.

[Patrick Hines]

It's not Astroworld. I'm not saying they don't deserve 50,000 people, but I'm saying they smartly.

[Julia Penzavalli]

There was a moment, there was a time in the 90s when you would go see them at, like, a stadium.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, like, yeah, of course, this didn't happen at Lilith Fair. And everyone was sitting on the grass so nice.

[Julia Penzavalli]

There's nary a men's bathroom. It's how it should be, you know? You know. Oh, girl. We did Astro World train wreck.

[Patrick Hines]

The Astroworld tragedy.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Oh, my God, it's horrifying. Well, listen, I will tell you a tour that you can attend where you will certainly survive and probably make a new friend. It is mine. It is called An Evening with Badger. Guys, I just got a few dates left. So I'm going to be in Nashville on July 30, Charlotte August 1, Atlanta August 2, Orlando August 4, D.C. august 15, Philadelphia August 16, and closing it out in London on the 30th of August. Come and see me. We're gonna have fun. It's the opposite of this. It is like a love fest. It is so fun in like so many ways. In so, so, so many ways. And then also, join us over on the YouTube it's true crypto podcast. Go subscribe. Check us out. It is so much fun.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Full our full length episodes of what's on the regular feed. They're up there.

[Julia Penzavalli]

The rank feed.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Penzavalli]

What are we doing next?

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God. Sons of Ecstasy on hbo.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Max, what's that?

[Patrick Hines]

Sammy the Bull, the guy who ratted out John Gotti. And they're like talking about him and his kids. Kids. Karen from Mob Wives getting mixed up in the ecstasy scene in Arizona.

[Julia Penzavalli]

I barely understood a word you just said. It is a wild text, Natalie. I'll have her explain it to me.

[Patrick Hines]

It's a wild ride. It's just Sammy the Bull being like, what? I didn't do nothing. It's like, girl, you're selling ecstasy. There's a guy from London here. It's like a whole thing.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Oh, my God. All right, well, stay tuned for the trailer for that. What would Machio say?

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, hi, Machio.

[Julia Penzavalli]

We love you, fam.

[Patrick Hines]

Bye. We love you. Please stay safe out there.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Please, please, please, please.

[Patrick Hines]

All right, bye bye.

[Julia Penzavalli]

Facing life in prison, Sammy the Bull Gravano turned on his boss, John Gotti. Am I a rat? I took fucking 20 years to help my kids and my family. A few months later, they're gonna kill me to send a message to my father. This is Phoenix, Arizona. We were trying to start a new.

[Patrick Hines]

Life, but we would definitely fish out of water.

[Julia Penzavalli]

There's this whole lifestyle in the middle.

[Patrick Hines]

Of the desert, having raves, parties, ecstasy, ecstasy.

[Julia Penzavalli]

I wanted to control the ecstasy scene here in Arizona. I think I got like 30,000 hits of ecstasy. We got rid of them in a week. But then some guys started undercutting us.

[Patrick Hines]

English Sean.

[Julia Penzavalli]

English Sean was the mastermind to our ecstasy empire.

[Patrick Hines]

The name Sammy the Bull Gravano entered my sphere. They became the biggest threat to the organization.

[Julia Penzavalli]

I don't give a flying fuck. We'll go to war like that. I just took off running smoke, shooting out the window. I was prepared to kill him and bury him in the desert. Everybody knew the consequences of their life. It was me and my family against the world.