467: Naming the Dead: The Hitchhiker (S1E1)

Summary

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True Crime Obsessed – Episode 467: Naming the Dead: The Hitchhiker (S1E1)

Release Date: November 6, 2025
Hosts: Patrick Hines and Julie Benzoli
Documentary Discussed: Naming the Dead (Season 1, Episode 1, "The Hitchhiker")

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Patrick and Julie dive into the National Geographic true crime docuseries Naming the Dead, focusing on the first episode, "The Hitchhiker." The central theme examines the crucial, painstaking work involved in identifying victims of serial killers who were left without names for decades. The hosts highlight the efforts of law enforcement, volunteers, and genealogists in their bid to give back names, dignity, and closure to the victims’ families—balancing humor and compassion as they unpack the case of two unidentified victims of Larry Eyler, known as the Highway Killer.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction to the Case & Key Players

• The episode opens in Newton County, Indiana, 1983, the site where four murder victims were found, all attributed to Larry Eyler, a serial killer believed to have killed between 24 and 50 people ([01:04], [01:13]).
• Two of these victims remained unidentified for decades, known only as "Victim 3" and "Victim 4" ([01:21], [03:27]).
• Scott McCord, elected coroner in 2008, discovered these sets of remains neglected in boxes upon starting his job. Disturbed by their treatment, he made identifying these men his personal mission ([02:39], [03:27], [03:46]).

2. Respect and Humanity for the Unidentified

• McCord humanizes the victims by naming them "Adam" and "Brad," emphasizing that “now with names, they're people, and you can't forget people” ([04:47], [04:56]).
• He and his daughter distributed flyers with composite sketches across a 50–60 mile radius in an attempt to identify them, demonstrating true "boots on the ground" dedication ([05:03], [05:26]).

3. Challenges in Identifying the Victims

• Despite their efforts, years pass with no breakthroughs. McCord arranges a respectful funeral and places the remains in a mausoleum ([07:23], [07:24], [07:28]).
• The hosts sharply contrast the victim-centered approach with Eyler’s calculated brutality, noting that he deliberately targeted young men—especially those he believed would not be missed, such as hitchhikers, gay youth, or runaways ([14:12], [24:21]).

4. Breakthrough via Genetic Genealogy

• The DNA Doe Project is brought in, and the hosts express awe at the "cutting edge" science and the passionate work of the all-volunteer team ([08:02], [09:54]).
• "Brad" is successfully identified as John Brandenburg Jr. after 37 years, reuniting him with his family ([08:21], [08:41]):
  • Notable Quote:
    "I've waited 37 and a half years for Johnny to come home, and you finally brought him back." – John’s mother to Scott ([08:41])
• The focus then shifts to identifying "Adam" through advances in DNA extraction and matching, despite severe contamination of the remains ([12:05], [12:37]).
• Dr. Kelly Harkins Kincaid (Astra Forensics) attempts a groundbreaking process to increase the human DNA percentage in Adam's remains, ultimately achieving a jump from 5% to 80% – a game-changing development ([15:31], [15:59], [16:03]).

5. Complexities and Setbacks in Genealogical Investigation

• The highest DNA match for Adam is only 3.2%, indicating a very distant relative—a problem especially common in African American cases due to underrepresentation in DNA databases ([19:44], [19:55], [20:09]).
• The team must painstakingly reconstruct family trees, moving branch by branch, generation by generation ([21:10], [21:16]). The work is slow and tedious, but gradually leads them to promising leads.

6. Critical Role of Historical Confessions

• Kathleen Zellner, Eyler’s attorney, was pivotal in gaining detailed, written confessions from Eyler about his crimes—information that decades later would help narrow searches and contextualize the victims’ possible backgrounds ([22:46], [22:49]).
• Eyler’s confession about picking up a young Black man hitchhiking towards Chicago matches with Adam Doe’s profile ([24:36], [28:20]).

7. Genealogy Yields a Break: The Maxey-El Amin Line

• Investigators connect Adam Doe’s DNA to the descendants of Lula Maxey, who moved from Arkansas to Chicago in the 1940s ([29:23], [29:28]).
• The key leap occurs when they discover a branch that disappeared from the records due to name changes after converting to Islam—leading them to Tariq El Amin and his family in Chicago ([34:41], [35:05]).

8. Emotional Resolution and Family Reunion

• DNA swabs from cousin Tariq and brother Ikra confirm Adam Doe as Keith Lavelle Bibbs (later Kaif Bismillah) ([42:55], [43:00], [43:08]).
• The family shares memories: Kaif was a protector, adventurous, and “always made sure [his siblings] were safe” ([43:38]).
• His family, after decades of pain and uncertainty, can finally lay Kaif to rest with his mother, gaining long-sought closure ([46:21], [46:52]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Scott McCord (On Naming the Unidentified):
  “And I gave him the names of Adam and Brad because now with names, they're people, and you can't forget people.” ([04:47])
• Patrick Hines (On McCord’s Dedication):
  “His whole mission is to identify these bodies and return them to their families. Like, that's a really amazing mission to have be your reason for getting out of bed in the morning.” ([04:16])
• On the emotional family reunion:
  “I've waited 37 and a half years for Johnny to come home, and you finally brought him back. That's what makes this job so important.” – Scott McCord relaying John’s mother’s words ([08:41])
• Dr. Kelly Harkins Kincaid (On DNA Breakthrough):
  “We sequenced almost a billion reads, and we've been able to go from about 5% of the DNA being human to nearly 80%.” ([15:31])
• Patrick Hines (Reacting to the identification):
  "And Adam Doe's birth name is Keith Levi Bibbs. And I'm crying." ([43:00])
• Family on Kaif’s Memory:
  "He was a protector... always made sure they were safe." ([43:38])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:04] Introduction of the Eyler case and discovery of four victims.
• [03:27] Scott McCord’s discovery of the remains and emotional drive to ID them.
• [04:47] McCord gives the victims the names "Adam" and "Brad."
• [07:23] Seven years of searching, funeral for the unidentified.
• [08:02] DNA Doe Project involvement, breakthrough with "Brad."
• [08:41] John Brandenburg Jr. re-identified; emotional family reunion.
• [12:05] DNA contamination challenge with Adam Doe remains.
• [15:31] Dr. Kincaid’s DNA breakthrough from 5% to 80% human DNA.
• [19:44] DNA closest match only at 3.2%; implications for genealogical research.
• [22:49] Kathleen Zellner obtains killer’s written confession, details on the victims’ last moments.
• [24:36]/[28:20] Detailed confession matching Adam’s journey, focus on Chicago.
• [35:05] Discovering the El Amin branch via religious name change.
• [41:59] Family identifies the victim as Kaif.
• [43:00] The moment Adam Doe is identified as Keith Lavelle Bibbs (Kaif Bismillah).
• [46:52] Burial and memorial service for Kaif; family reunion and closure.

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Tone, Style, and Memorable Touches

• The hosts balance warmth and irreverent humor with genuine heart for the victims and admiration for those fighting for their dignity.
• Julie shares her emotional reactions, reflecting the viewers’ responses, while Patrick provides advocacy and perspective, especially regarding the historical context for the targeting of marginalized youth.
• Banter and asides (e.g., about Showgirl soundtracks or the importance of bops vs. sad Taylor Swift songs) punctuate heavy content for needed levity.

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Final Thoughts

The episode delivers a rich, moving recap of Naming the Dead: The Hitchhiker, placing a spotlight on the grueling but essential work of giving back names to the lost. Advances in forensics, the tenacity of investigators, and the embrace of distant relatives all converge to restore humanity and closure—making justice personal not just for victims' families but for listeners, too. The hosts convey why this work matters, leaving listeners both informed and emotionally invested.

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End Summary.

Transcript

[Patrick Hines]

All right, National Geographic. Getting in on the true crime content.

[Julie Benzoli]

Are you kidding?

[Patrick Hines]

Kathleen Zellner is back.

[Julie Benzoli]

The series is so good.

[Patrick Hines]

It's really good.

[Julie Benzoli]

So good.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Yeah. Hi, Julie Benzoli.

[Julie Benzoli]

Hi, Patrick Hines.

[Patrick Hines]

All right. We don't have to tell them anything at the top. Give them your review of Showgirl. They're going to want to hear it.

[Julie Benzoli]

I like it. I don't know what everyone's goddamn problem is.

[Patrick Hines]

I couldn't agree more.

[Julie Benzoli]

I've been humming Elizabeth Taylor all day.

[Patrick Hines]

I have Life of a Showgirl in my head on a copy.

[Julie Benzoli]

I'm doing the Fate of Ophelia Choreo.

[Patrick Hines]

Everywhere I go, I ruin the friendship. We were talking about that the other day. It's so good.

[Julie Benzoli]

Actually romantic would give me a break.

[Patrick Hines]

What is a total bop?

[Julie Benzoli]

Everyone's gotta lighten up a little bit.

[Patrick Hines]

I agree.

[Julie Benzoli]

My official stance is everyone's gotta lighten up 100%.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, what are we talking? Speaking of not lightening up, what are we talking about today?

[Julie Benzoli]

Okay, so except everyone here because they're doing amazing work. So this is our 18th bonus episode. It's a brand new series that everyone is loving because it's excellent. It's called Naming the Dead. This is season one, episode one. It's called the Hitchhiker.

[Scott McCord]

The four victims found on this farm were murdered by Larry Iler, the Highway Killer, sometime between March and July of 83.

[Patrick Hines]

Police say Larry Iler was a serial killer with at least two dozen victims, maybe as many as 50.

[Scott McCord]

So he would bring them in, kill him in the barn, and then bring them out here. One, two, three. And is this number four? This would be victim four. Two of these young men couldn't be identified at the time. And when I started as Coroner, I found two boxes labeled Victim 3 and Victim 4. These were somebody's kids. We know who killed them.

[Patrick Hines]

A convicted killer has confessed to 21.

[Janelle Daniels]

Murders in Illinois and Indiana.

[Scott McCord]

We know how he killed them.

[Janelle Daniels]

Out of rage.

[Patrick Hines]

He would stab them 21 to 31 times.

[Scott McCord]

Why do we not know who they are?

[Patrick Hines]

Off we open on an image from Newton county, Indiana, in 1983. And I love it when they do this. Like a semi tractor trailer drives by. And it cuts to the same image today. And we're going to the farm. We're at these two people we haven't met yet. We're going to meet them in a second. But we're at a farm where these bodies were found in 1983.

[Julie Benzoli]

So this episode is about identifying two victims of a piece of shit named Larry Eiler. He was known as the Highway Killer.

[Patrick Hines]

Never heard of this guy.

[Julie Benzoli]

Yeah, fuck him.

[Patrick Hines]

And we'll go right back to not knowing anything about him when this is over.

[Julie Benzoli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Great.

[Julie Benzoli]

So we meet Scott McCord. So in 2008, he's elected as the coroner of Newton County, Indiana.

[Patrick Hines]

Now, this is an example of a man doing the good work. Unless he's garbage. This guy's doing the good work, Right?

[Julie Benzoli]

So he says, like, he walks in on his first day, he's just freshly elected, and there's a box on his desk, and he's like, oh, what's this? Like a. Like a housewarming gift? Like, what's going on?

[Patrick Hines]

I have a question. If you're a corner and you walk into your office on the first day and there's a box on your. Should you shake.

[Julie Benzoli]

Meets his office with a desk. Not like the medical area.

[Patrick Hines]

I guess so. But, like, I'm. Look, I'm. I love this guy. I'm totally on the side. Weird that the coroner is an elected position. I was like, really? But, like, don't go shaking boxes in the coroner's office. My advice for your first day.

[Julie Benzoli]

I guess so. Because the world is a nightmare. But he was like, oh. Like, is it a happy first day? No, it's not.

[Patrick Hines]

No, no, no.

[Julie Benzoli]

He's like, it's not heavy, but there's something in there.

[Scott McCord]

And when I opened them up, they were full of skeletal remains. I felt mad. Mad that they were in boxes. Mad because it didn't seem like anybody cared anymore. I guess. Mad enough, I felt it was. It was my job to. To take care of it, to do something about it.

[Julie Benzoli]

Why are human remains in boxes? That is incredibly disrespectful.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, I. I'm glad that they were stored and kept, but I totally agree with you. There's gotta be a better fucking life.

[Julie Benzoli]

Because the bottom line is that they were just dumped on this guy's desk, like, oh, he's the new guy. And it's so. Just so fucking rude. And Scott is pissed. And as we've learned, that is often when the most important work gets done.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, and that's why it was because when they said that the coroner was an elected position, I was like, that's so weird. But then I was like, we want people with good, strong moral compasses in.

[Julie Benzoli]

This job who want the gig.

[Patrick Hines]

Right, exactly. Because. Right. And so, like, that's his whole mission here. Like, I'm so interested in people who do, like, these corner jobs. Like, why are you drawn to this kind of work. And, like, it turns out for Scott, his whole mission is to identify these bodies and return them to their families. Like, that's a really amazing mission to have be your, like, your reason for getting out of bed in the morning.

[Julie Benzoli]

Yeah. Because he sees the box and he's pissed and he's like, well, it seems like nobody cared anymore.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julie Benzoli]

And so he's taking this on as his responsibility. So the first thing he does. There are two John does. The first thing he does is name them.

[Scott McCord]

And I gave him the names of Adam and Brad because now with names, they're people, and you can't forget people.

[Julie Benzoli]

So Adam is black and between 15 and 18 years old. Brad is white between 17 and 13 years old.

[Patrick Hines]

Now, not only is he, like, naming them in the office doing the good work, he and his daughter make up flyers of the composite sketches of what they think these boys would have looked like. And they take them to every town within a 50 to 60 mile radius and show anybody and everybody these pictures to see if anybody knows who they are. Like, talk about boots on the ground. Like, knocking on doors, doing the good work.

[Julie Benzoli]

I know. And the reason he named them, he named them so that other people would see them as human beings, which is insane to say out loud, but here we are.

[Patrick Hines]

It's one of those things where cases like this always confuse, like, the fact that there are so many missing but also unclaimed missing people. It is so heartbreaking.

[Julie Benzoli]

And this episode shows us how that can happen.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julie Benzoli]

And it's not like a bad, nefarious thing. No, it's kind of amazing, truly.

[Patrick Hines]

And then the people, mostly all women, doing, like, the good work of trying to identify these people and bring them home.

[Julie Benzoli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

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[Julie Benzoli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julie Benzoli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julie Benzoli]

Right?

[Patrick Hines]

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[Julie Benzoli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julie Benzoli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julie Benzoli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Janelle Daniels]

That's right.

[Julie Benzoli]

You want to need something cute every once in a while. So there's no luck. They go 50 or 60 miles, they're going door to door, boots on the ground, and nothing happens. So after seven years, Scott has a funeral for the victims.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julie Benzoli]

And he places the remains nicely and respectfully in the local mausoleum.

[Patrick Hines]

It's very like lady of the Dunes. Like giving a proper burial, doing the right thing. Everyone deserves that 100%.

[Julie Benzoli]

Not that piece of shit who killed them, for example. Do you know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

I will almost always agree with you, and I know you rethought it as soon as you said it, but you're right. Not everybody deserves that. There are plenty of people who deserve to be thrown off a cliff.

[Julie Benzoli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

You know what I mean? Before they're dead and after. Yeah, you know what I mean?

[Julie Benzoli]

You know, you know how, you know.

[Patrick Hines]

Listen, we know what you mean.

[Julie Benzoli]

I'm not going to over explain myself. But finally we have a breakthrough. Thank you. Science and the DNA Doe project.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. We get a match for Brad. And what they did was the DNA Doe Project worst DNA from Brad's remains. They upload Brad's DNA to a database. They trace his family. It's amazing. Genetic genealogy is like the most amazing cutting edge checkup and like an opportunity to like have a whole episode about it is my favorite.

[Julie Benzoli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

It's like this. And archives.

[Julie Benzoli]

So Brad Doe, who? He'd been Brad Doe since 1983. His name is John Brandenburg Jr. Yeah. And his mom says to Scott, like, and that's the thing about this, like, Scott is always talking to these families.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julie Benzoli]

It's unbelievable, right?

[Patrick Hines]

Because it's not like the family's not getting an email or like a generic phone call. Scott is like bringing the remains back to the family to meet the family.

[Scott McCord]

When we actually took his remains back home, mom gave me this little hug and the words that she said will stick with me forever. She said, I've waited 37 and a half years for Johnny to come home, and you finally brought him back. That's what makes this job so important.

[Patrick Hines]

Scott says, like, this is what makes my job so important. And I'm like, you know what? We should be. You should be campaigning for Corner at this point.

[Julie Benzoli]

I mean, this episode made me want to do this kind of work. Like, it made me want to be like, what do I do? Like, does the DOE project need help? I'll do it.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm sure they do. Like, you would be great at this.

[Julie Benzoli]

I would love this.

[Patrick Hines]

I can totally see you high topknot at your computer in the morning identifying bodies.

[Julie Benzoli]

We need to get the water away from me. I'm busy. Hydrate, schmydrate.

[Patrick Hines]

No, I can totally. You'd be so good at this.

[Julie Benzoli]

I think I would be. So if you need volunteer. I'm going to look into volunteering.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay, great.

[Julie Benzoli]

But Scott is like, look, okay, so only half of this situation is solved. He says he needs to find Adam's family. He needs to get Adam home.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Julie Benzoli]

So now we're in Texas, and the team who found Brad's identity is now focusing on Adam. And they're all volunteers, but they're genealogists chosen for their investigative skills, which, like, we meet them.

[Patrick Hines]

We meet Janelle Daniels. She's a former police officer in Miami, Dade County. And she said it was the history.

[Janelle Daniels]

Of my family genealogy that I fell in love with. And it was like, oh, I can use this for good. Right. Not just for myself and my family, but help other people.

[Patrick Hines]

I can actually use this to do, like, the good work.

[Julie Benzoli]

Yeah. And I'll, like, go. I'll take the class. Because I realize now saying this, like, I am not a genealogist.

[Patrick Hines]

No. But it's like ancestry.com and all of that. Like, when that came online, like, I remember sitting down, I traced my family tree back to, like, four generations.

[Julie Benzoli]

Really?

[Patrick Hines]

We all came in through Canada.

[Julie Benzoli]

Did you find anyone that you didn't know about?

[Patrick Hines]

No. Like John Wilkes Booth or whatever?

[Scott McCord]

No.

[Julie Benzoli]

Or just like, oh, my God, someone else had a kid we didn't know about or something that usually happened.

[Patrick Hines]

No, it wasn't like that. I was more interested in learning why I'm so big and hairy. I was like, where do my people come from? You know, Canada.

[Julie Benzoli]

Did we go all the way back to evolution to figure that out? Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

CRO. Magnon Hines.

[Julie Benzoli]

Wow.

[Patrick Hines]

You know, but it is a really interesting way to spend a weekend, like, to like, do this kind of project because you get to see the doc. It's what these people all love about it. You can see the documents and the records and like, you know, like, you see like your family, like writing down their own names in the census and shit. Like, it's pretty fucking cool. Yeah.

[Julie Benzoli]

So Rebecca, her day job is chief deputy prosecuting attorney.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, Rebecca, she's got plenty of free time, you know.

[Julie Benzoli]

Jennifer Randolph is the director of cases. And then we meet Dr. Kelly Harkins Kincaid. She is the founding CEO of Astra Forensics. Such a cool name.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julie Benzoli]

So she's in Santa Cruz and they're calling her in for help.

[Patrick Hines]

She also seems like she'd be fun at a party. She does enough quirky things in these moments that I'm like, you can cut loose.

[Julie Benzoli]

And this is a job that, like, you need to blow off steam.

[Patrick Hines]

No.

[Julie Benzoli]

And you need to sort of step away from it because sometimes you get lost or you get there too many blinders on and you just like, I need to step away and come back. And that's when the party happens.

[Patrick Hines]

I was curious about why she wanted to like, start her own company doing this, you know, it's so incredible.

[Julie Benzoli]

So cool.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julie Benzoli]

So she explains the challenges in this case. In particular, the big challenge with Adam Doe is the contamination of his remains by its soil or water microbes from the environment. We tested both a tooth and a toe bone, and in both cases we found only about 5% of the DNA was human. Which means about 95% of the DNA comes from microbial life.

[Patrick Hines]

Only 5% of what they have is human DNA. And that is a very, very, very hard sample to get, like a good DNA profile from.

[Julie Benzoli]

Yeah. They have one tooth and one toe bone.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julie Benzoli]

So they're stuck. But there might be something Dr. Kelly can do.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julie Benzoli]

But she's never done it for the purposes of IDing a doe.

[Patrick Hines]

She says it seems to be a brand new cutting edge technology that like, she's gonna try in this case for the first time on a dough.

[Julie Benzoli]

Yeah. And she's really laying it all out. She like, it's complex, it's labor intensive, it's a lot. And I don't know if it's going to work, but let's try it.

[Patrick Hines]

It's like, it seems like it's heavy duty cleaning. Like, that seems to be like what it is. It's like going to the dentist.

[Julie Benzoli]

So they want to like, wash away all the non human DNA, AKA the contamination While also keeping the DNA intact. It's really hard to know.

[Patrick Hines]

I was going to say that seems to be the issue. How do you wash away the bad stuff and keep the good stuff?

[Julie Benzoli]

And she says, it's a long shot, but we don't have anything to lose. And I'm like, are we about to witness history being made? Like, are we doing it?

[Patrick Hines]

I know, I know.

[Julie Benzoli]

So we're back in Newton County, Indiana.

[Patrick Hines]

We meet Heidi McCord. She's the chief deputy coroner. So she's like, the one who works right under Scott. And, like, we learn that these two had, like, a great working relationship from day one. They were both in it for the right reasons. They were both really driven by the work. And Scott says, heidi was my chief deputy for a year and a half. And I thought, well, this is working out well. So I married her.

[Julie Benzoli]

They got married.

[Patrick Hines]

I know. Imagine meeting somebody doing that kind of work who loves it as much, who's like that news guy who's like, I fucking love it.

[Julie Benzoli]

The. From Gacy. Yes, that Gacy thing on Peacock.

[Patrick Hines]

These two jump out of bed every morning to identify bodies, and they found.

[Julie Benzoli]

Each other, and they love it, and they love working together. They still work together. Very cute.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julie Benzoli]

But Scott is saying Adam was so.

[Scott McCord]

Young when he died.

[Janelle Daniels]

Right.

[Scott McCord]

But it doesn't seem like there's anybody reaching out to try to find him.

[Julie Benzoli]

You'd think somebody would still be looking.

[Scott McCord]

Oh, I know somebody's still looking. In my heart, I know somebody's looking for him.

[Patrick Hines]

When somebody in your family goes missing, like, how do you ever stop thinking about them and hoping they come back?

[Julie Benzoli]

Yeah, I don't think you do. It was awful to live with it, you know?

[Patrick Hines]

Yes. And it was like the 80s. And, like, I think so many of the, like, we're gonna learn eventually that some of these kids were gay. And I think that's a part of this is undeniable. And I think that, like, also these disappearances happened in a time when, like, people went missing and there wasn't a lot of recourse to find them. And so, like you were saying, you just, like, you learn to accept it.

[Julie Benzoli]

Yeah. So Scott is investigating the case. He's investigating this piece of shit serial killer and the victims trying to get any clues about Adam Doe at all.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes. And so he discovers a book called Freed to Kill by a woman named Geralyn Kohleric, and he, like, reaches out to her.

[Julie Benzoli]

Yeah. I mean, she literally wrote the book on the case.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julie Benzoli]

So she's my number one call.

[Patrick Hines]

She Takes his call. And she's here to sort of tell us everything.

[Julie Benzoli]

Yeah. So she says the victims were all young men, at least 15. They were stabbed and they were, quote, discarded in wooded areas.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julie Benzoli]

So this guy, this highway killer guy would go out, like, hunting these young men and these boys, offering them money. And once he gets them in the truck, he would drug them.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julie Benzoli]

With sleeping pills. And then drive, like, 100 miles.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julie Benzoli]

And then two hours away, out of.

[Patrick Hines]

Rage and fantasy, he would then stab them 21 to 31 times, take their identification, toss it out the window so they couldn't be identified. And like, back in the 1980s, if you were to find a victim in one place, get rid of their ID and then take them to 100 miles away. And in this case, overstate lines, often, that was a pretty easy recipe to not get caught and to not have the victims be identified.

[Julie Benzoli]

Yeah, absolutely. So we're back with Dr. Kelly and the DNA. Yes, we have done this a number of times. We really wanted to get every human DNA molecule possible out of the sample. We sequenced almost a billion reads, and we've been able to go from about 5% of the DNA being human to nearly 80%. We went from 5% to 88. 0.

[Patrick Hines]

Did you love the animation of this pie chart as much as I did, where, like, we see the pie chart sort of explode?

[Julie Benzoli]

I love this series. I love how they, like, explain, because this shit can be hard to follow.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, generic genealogy is like.

[Julie Benzoli]

You're like, wait, whose family is that? Or, wait, what's the DNA thing? And they really make it very accessible so that you could just be in your feelings the whole time about the journey and not be confused about, like, what's happening.

[Patrick Hines]

There was a reason I was only a genetic genealogist for a weekend. I was like, now we're in too deep.

[Julie Benzoli]

Yeah, now we're in too deep. I feel like everyone is just like, no, Jillian, you can't just, like, be a genetic genealogist over the weekend. And I'm like, I want to help.

[Patrick Hines]

Denise Richards playing like, a physicist in one of those Bond movies.

[Julie Benzoli]

Let me help.

[Patrick Hines]

Christmas Eve Jones.

[Julie Benzoli]

Is that her name?

[Patrick Hines]

Is Christmas Eve Jones?

[Julie Benzoli]

Christmas Eve?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, I think so. Christmas Eve Jones. And now she's like, a lady having sex with ladies on housewives. I love it.

[Julie Benzoli]

Yeah. She's married to, like, a horrible person.

[Patrick Hines]

She is.

[Julie Benzoli]

Got to get out of that.

[Patrick Hines]

I just watched the Charlie Sheen doc on Netflix.

[Julie Benzoli]

Oh, you did?

[Patrick Hines]

It's Wild and it's only part one. There's more to come. And it's as like insufferable as you think. But he's here trying to be charming. It's not working. But Jon Cryer is also here looking very much like a terrified man. Like it's, you know, the Charlie Sheen shit is layers. At one point, you're going to hate this. At one point, a hammered, hammered Charlie Sheen is on a flight. He goes into the cockpit. The captain is so impressed by Charlie, Sheeny lets him fly the plane. They switch off the autopilot.

[Julie Benzoli]

We have to move on.

[Patrick Hines]

I know. No plane is safe ever.

[Julie Benzoli]

That's horrifying.

[Patrick Hines]

I know. I was thinking about you the entire time I was watching that travel.

[Julie Benzoli]

Down, girl.

[Patrick Hines]

Haya is back. We love this stuff. Look. Typical. Children's vitamins are basically candy in disguise. We all know that. We were raised on them.

[Julie Benzoli]

We were just like in the bed kind of reminiscing of like, remember how we used to take like candy every day?

[Patrick Hines]

Like literally.

[Julie Benzoli]

So Haya tastes great and it's perfect for. Wait for it. Picky eaters.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julie Benzoli]

Because you want to fill in the most common gaps in your kid's diet. But also they're going to be like, oh, no. Vitamins. Gross. No, not.

[Patrick Hines]

She looks forward to it every single day. And these are formulated with the help of pediatricians and nutritional experts. Experts. Haya is pressed with a blend of 12 organic fruits and veggies. Yes, please. Then supercharged with 15 essential vitamins and minerals including vitamin D, B, 12C, zinc, folate and many others to help support immune system, energy, brain function, mood. Thank you, Haya. Concentration, teeth, bones and more. Also fam. Are you tired of battling with your kids to eat their greens? Haya now has kids daily greens plus superfoods, which is a chop chocolate flavored greens powder designed specifically for kids. Packed with 55 plus whole food ingredients to support brain power, development and digestion.

[Julie Benzoli]

Just scoop, shake and sip with milk or any non dairy beverage for a delicious and nutritious boost your kids will actually enjoy.

[Patrick Hines]

And she does. I swear to God.

[Julie Benzoli]

That's the whole thing about it.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, fam. The same multivitamin that more than a million parents trust is now available with an enchanting Disney princess welcome kit with a new princess unboxing experience including princess bottle and and stickers.

[Julie Benzoli]

And we've worked out a special deal with Haya for their best selling children's vitamin. Receive 50% off your first order.

[Patrick Hines]

To claim this deal you must go to hyahealth.com tco this deal is not.

[Julie Benzoli]

Available on Their regular website. Go to h I y a h e a l t h.com tco and get your kids the full body nourishment they need to grow into healthy adults.

[Patrick Hines]

And that cute princess bottle, like, get that too.

[Julie Benzoli]

They're going to keep the love of stickers, if I'm any for sure. But now. So we went from 5% human DNA to 80%, which is like, major, major news. And now they can upload it to the database so they can hopefully find people who share DNA with Adam Doe.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julie Benzoli]

And the higher DNA you share with someone, the more closely you're related. Right. So, like, the highest possible match on a database is 50%.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julie Benzoli]

Which means you can be a parent, a child, a sibling. That's like the big deal.

[Scott McCord]

Yeah.

[Julie Benzoli]

So 25%, you're an aunt or uncle, and then the percentages go down and further away from there.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. The top DNA match in this is 3.2%. So which is kind of a reveal. It's like we're watching them all in real time, like, get the results. And it is disheartening because Janelle tells.

[Janelle Daniels]

Us Adam doesn't have any close relatives in the database. We find that a lot in our African American cases that we work. And that's because fewer African Americans upload their DNA.

[Julie Benzoli]

They only have a 3.2% DNA match. And it would be like Adam, at best, Adam's second cousin.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julie Benzoli]

This is like, what an idiot I am, because I'm like. Like, that kind of sounds like a decent lead, but the music is telling me it's not.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, yeah. I had the same thought and I'm.

[Julie Benzoli]

Like, I think any lead is a good lead at this point.

[Patrick Hines]

So.

[Julie Benzoli]

But the music is like, no, girl.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, it's wild too, because they show us what that looks like on a family tree and they have, like, the person and then they zoom out and it's like. It's like 15 sets of grandparents or whatever. And you're like, oh, God.

[Julie Benzoli]

So our team, these amazing ladies, have to go back three generations. And time is like, not on our side here. So this is not good.

[Patrick Hines]

And let me tell you what that means. Like, they get into this a little bit later, but having gone through this in a teeny tiny bit when I was doing my own family tree, like, going back three generations means you have to painstakingly go through the documents for each of these people. So that means like, great grandparents means, like the two of them plus all of their kids. Plus all of their kids plus all of their. To get to a second. Like, you could spend six months going through, like, one person's, like, documents to trace them all the way back.

[Julie Benzoli]

And then I was like, oh, okay, yeah, I got my face.

[Patrick Hines]

This is not a good. We should also automate the system. It should be a little faster. I think there should be a way to do that.

[Julie Benzoli]

I wonder. I don't know what the system is like at all. I don't even know.

[Patrick Hines]

You know what I was thinking about today? How do we not have mobile DNA kits? How do we not have, like, every investigator on a scene with a DNA kit in their pocket to be like, run the shit and put it into like, a little system. And then it tells you exactly who the guy is.

[Julie Benzoli]

Yeah, I think there's, like, legal stuff.

[Patrick Hines]

With that that could be used for.

[Julie Benzoli]

As I said, I'm realizing it could be used for. Everyone can just like, be. It's like we're kind of going to the. I guess so we're overcorrecting.

[Patrick Hines]

I think so. But there's gotta be a problem.

[Julie Benzoli]

But I get why you're asking that in our line of, like, why can't it.

[Patrick Hines]

Who would never use it for nefarious purposes? It seems so simple to me.

[Julie Benzoli]

Yeah. Okay, so this is painstaking work. They have to build a huge family. 3. But this guy, this asshole piece of shit serial killer, killed in two different states, which complicates everything, which is crazy.

[Patrick Hines]

Because when you think about it from this piece of shit's perspective, like, oh, kill it. It's like the Ted Bundy effect. Let me kill in five different states. That they'll never catch.

[Julie Benzoli]

All these jurisdictions fighting against each other. So he's dead, which is great, this guy, but it also means that we can't get any more information out of him at all.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, but I got to tell his attorney back in the day did a lot of good work on that because it's. We can't get anything out of him now. But Kathleen Zellner is here. She's here today, and she's here back in the 80s when she was this guy's lawyer. Why she took his case, I don't know. But in his final years, his attorney persuaded him to reveal the tactics he used to evade detection for so long. Having won Eiler's trust, Kathleen convinced him to shoot shares some critical information.

[Janelle Daniels]

I will distribute names and a written statement in Larry Eiler's writing confessing to 21 murders.

[Patrick Hines]

She gets him to like, literally write down like, and like, I whatever the piece of shit's name is confessed to the murder of in detail, 21 people. There are some he can't remember, but in detail where he picked them up, what they look like, what they were wearing, what race they were. It is unbelievable, this confession.

[Julie Benzoli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And I guess we know serial killers like to tell their stories. They want to be, they want credit for all the shit that they did or whatever.

[Julie Benzoli]

And they remember much more than they admit because they fudgeing, loved what they did.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julie Benzoli]

But Zellner today kind of breaks it down a lot of things that we can kind of assume just based on watching things like this for a long time. Yeah, but like, so he picked people he assumed wouldn't be looked for and.

[Patrick Hines]

He picked people that like, I think he assumed were gay.

[Julie Benzoli]

So yes, some of the victims were gay, some were not. But after the murders he'd go out of his way to stage the body to make it look like whatever happened had to do with like the gay shit the cops don't want to deal with.

[Patrick Hines]

You know, I didn't want to give this guy any more attention. I was going to look into him a little bit and find out like, was he gay? Was there a sexual component to this? I didn't intentionally because I didn't really want to know. But like, as a gay person, it really can't be overstated how fucked up that is. And like I'm just one of many minority. Like I'm not trying to say it's worse for gay people than anybody else, but like to really target gay people because, you know, no one's going to give a shit.

[Julie Benzoli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

It really hurts my feelings.

[Julie Benzoli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

To be honest. You know what I mean?

[Julie Benzoli]

Everyone's feelings, you know, like it just. He knew the cops wouldn't care or prioritize it. So whether the person was gay or not, he made it look like that.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And if they were gay, he knew that they probably had some shitty relationship with their family, got kicked out of the house, so their family isn't looking for them either. It's a perfect storm for them.

[Julie Benzoli]

Right. So Zellner got him, like you said, to confess to 21 murders. Handwrite all of these details.

[Janelle Daniels]

I, Larry Eiler, confessed to the murder of an unidentified black male in his late teens, early 20s in mid July of 1983 at an abandoned farmhouse near Lake Village, Indiana. I started driving on 63 north to 41 North. I saw a black guy hitchhiking.

[Patrick Hines]

She like still has this box in her office. I was like, kathleen, that's an office full of ghosts. Girl, Jesus.

[Julie Benzoli]

Or maybe they just asked her to get it.

[Patrick Hines]

It could be.

[Julie Benzoli]

Maybe she went to her storage locker.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, you're right. She doesn't seem like she's got a closet full of boxes. She seems a little tidier than that.

[Julie Benzoli]

And I think she also like doesn't believe in ghosts. I think she's one of those people who's just like fighting for what she needs to fight with there. And like these guys can go fuck themselves. Like I can't remember what it is. I feel like this is a trope where it's like someone like I know someone literally did this in a house that I, my parents and I used to live in. A very dear family friend of ours who was house sitting when no one was home and heard a bunch of shit and like talked to the ghost and was like I'm not in the mood for this. And then they stopped. So I feel like Zellner's that type of gal, that type of person who just hears like woo. Like shut up.

[Patrick Hines]

You know that's a particular kind of hell you have to be sent to to be the ghost that gets sent back to the lady who's not here for your shit.

[Scott McCord]

Yeah.

[Julie Benzoli]

Ralph was like, I'm not doing this tonight. Like I'm tired. Like no how deflating.

[Patrick Hines]

And that must be for the ghosts.

[Julie Benzoli]

And they listen.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what? I'm not even that good at this.

[Julie Benzoli]

I'm sorry.

[Patrick Hines]

The ghost imposter syndrome comes right up. Like I was never going to be a good ghoul. I was never going to be good at haunting. God. You know what? I'll see myself out.

[Julie Benzoli]

And they literally do right? Like wow. Like called out clocked.

[Patrick Hines]

Travel down the road.

[Julie Benzoli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julie Benzoli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julie Benzoli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julie Benzoli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julie Benzoli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julie Benzoli]

I like that.

[Patrick Hines]

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[Julie Benzoli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julie Benzoli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Scott McCord]

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[Julie Benzoli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julie Benzoli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julie Benzoli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julie Benzoli]

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[Julie Benzoli]

So this guy talks about Adam Doe. He says, I confess to the murder of an unidentified black male in his late teens in mid July of 1983 in an abandoned farmhouse near Lake Village, Indiana. Like, the details. And he says, like, he was driving north on 63, heading to 41, north towards Chicago, saw black guy hitchhiking, and at first you're like, I don't give a fuck about the details. No, we need the details. We need them because he killed in different states and jurisdictions. Like, our DNA team, our go team, needs this. This is so valuable.

[Patrick Hines]

And Janelle, who's on the DOE? Okay. Adam was picked up on Highway 41, just south of Newton County. He was driving north to Chicago.

[Janelle Daniels]

So if Adam was hitchhiking in that direction, we could reason that he was going towards Chicago, maybe even Trying to get home.

[Patrick Hines]

Maybe he was trying to get home. So maybe the DOE Network can be looking in Chicago for his relatives.

[Julie Benzoli]

Right? And they're like, cool. But unfortunately everyone they found is from Arkansas. They just keep seeing Arkansas over and over again and they're like, what?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julie Benzoli]

Until. This name is so great.

[Patrick Hines]

I know.

[Julie Benzoli]

Lula Maxey.

[Patrick Hines]

It's great.

[Julie Benzoli]

She's from Arkansas. She's born in 1897.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julie Benzoli]

Born in Arkansas, moved to Chicago in the 1940s.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And she says Lula and her husband Sam could be Adam's great grandparents.

[Julie Benzoli]

So they had six kids, which is like great, but also a ton of work because the team has to go through all of those people and their kids. And their kids.

[Patrick Hines]

But I just want to point out like, how valuable what Zellner did back in the 80s was to this case. Because if you remember, they had like eight sets of great grandparents that they had to like go through all of the family trees. But because Zellner was able to like get this guy to confess, acknowledge where he was in the country, that this kid was probably headed to Chicago. Now the DO network can just focus on any family tree. It's a pretty amazing time travel, like to connect those threads. The work that Zellner did in the 80s connects to Scott giving a shit about this case connects to the DOE network. Like doing this work in the 2000s. In the. In the 20,000. In the 20,000 year of our Lord.

[Julie Benzoli]

You know what people call what happened before this, right?

[Patrick Hines]

What?

[Julie Benzoli]

You know what the kids call it? Uh, the 1900s.

[Patrick Hines]

I know. I know the 1900s. When Steve told Daisy his birth year last night and it blew her mind. You know what?

[Julie Benzoli]

I don't care for that.

[Patrick Hines]

I don't care for it either. Like that we.

[Julie Benzoli]

That'll be you one day, girl.

[Patrick Hines]

I know. One day.

[Julie Benzoli]

I know. One day it'll be you.

[Patrick Hines]

I know. But like, you know, we not only span centuries, but we span moments. Millennia.

[Julie Benzoli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Isn't that wild?

[Julie Benzoli]

Pretty awesome.

[Patrick Hines]

That's crazy.

[Julie Benzoli]

It's pretty cool.

[Patrick Hines]

And we now live in the 20 thousands.

[Julie Benzoli]

We live in the 20 thousands.

[Patrick Hines]

We live in the 20 thousands.

[Julie Benzoli]

So they have all these people to go through, so they rule out four descendants. Then it's down to two.

[Patrick Hines]

One doesn't have any records they can find after 1950. So they focus their attention. They have three daughters on the final branch.

[Janelle Daniels]

After three daughters, only one is in Chicago. And it's the right age. You know what? We may have found Adam's mother.

[Julie Benzoli]

And the birth date, 1943. Could possibly line up with being Adam Doe's mom. Like, we're kind of. We're getting. We're, like, coming out of the weeds. We're out of the woods.

[Patrick Hines]

Almost be the best day doing that job.

[Julie Benzoli]

Like, once you start to pull a thread that actually is working, that must be exhilarating.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, the thing about that is we're gonna see in this episode, like, how many times, like, it looks on paper like a perfect match and ends up not being it.

[Julie Benzoli]

Yeah. Like, you can't let it be exhilarating.

[Patrick Hines]

Ye.

[Julie Benzoli]

You know?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julie Benzoli]

So here's the thing, though. This is very delicate because even if this woman is Adam Doe's mother, She's never been officially informed of her son's death.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. Because that's when I start to think, if this kid was gay, we don't know. We'll never know.

[Julie Benzoli]

We don't know anything.

[Patrick Hines]

We don't know anything about that. But, like, if he ran away or was thrown out of the house like this. What I'm saying, these families think that they're out there somewhere, Just choosing not to get in touch with them.

[Julie Benzoli]

Right. You know, like, you know, fearing the worst or whatever. Just fear of the unknown, just like.

[Patrick Hines]

And I don't know if that's better or worse than if these kids went missing at a time when it would have been impossible to track them down. If they. Then you can let yourself believe that they are probably. Or maybe out there somewhere.

[Julie Benzoli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

You know?

[Julie Benzoli]

Yeah. So coroner Scott and Janelle call this woman together.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julie Benzoli]

And I'm like, oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. She answers.

[Patrick Hines]

Here's my question. Do you think these people were given any information before these phone calls were made? Because A, why are they answering the phone to some, like, unknown number in Indiana? I know.

[Julie Benzoli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

You know, And B, it's like, quite the bomb to drop on somebody.

[Julie Benzoli]

Yeah. I don't know. I mean, but that's real light. Like, if the cameras weren't there, that's.

[Patrick Hines]

How it Would be.

[Julie Benzoli]

Would be happening anyway. But I'm sure there's a lot little.

[Patrick Hines]

You know, there's got to be something like, hey, we got some news. If you wouldn't mind answering your phone at 2:35 today.

[Julie Benzoli]

Right. I don't know how it works, but I would think. I don't know. I think it could go either way.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julie Benzoli]

On a show like this could go either way.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Julie Benzoli]

So she answers, and I'm all excited, but this is a dead end.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julie Benzoli]

Very quickly.

[Patrick Hines]

I just have, like, The Mori Povich. She is not the mother.

[Julie Benzoli]

She's not the mother. And I'm like, really? We were so close. And Scott's like, no, girl. This happens all the time.

[Scott McCord]

Over the 13, 14 years, I've been searching for Adam. I've been here a few times where the light is right there, and you reach out and it goes at you. It goes dark. It's like being punched in the gut.

[Patrick Hines]

How could this not be the right. Like, it's in. It's in the family line. Like, the doe is related to that woman in some way. It's just not his mom.

[Julie Benzoli]

Just not his mom. And they're so far removed in their family tree that she doesn't know that someone's missing. And they're like, okay, well, what?

[Patrick Hines]

And that's the other thing in these cases that, like, in theory, makes no sense. If somebody in my family was missing, like, I. I would know about it. But then it's like, once you go outside of that first cousin, it's like, well, I don't even know who my second cousins are, you know? So, like, on paper, you're like, how could everybody in this family not know about this? But then, like, when you. When you put it in, like, the real life.

[Julie Benzoli]

Oh, yeah. Clear.

[Patrick Hines]

Why would they?

[Julie Benzoli]

Why would they?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julie Benzoli]

So there's another possible lead, like, if you can call it that at first, because there's another branch of the family, but they don't have any records after 1950. So where do you even go from there?

[Patrick Hines]

Now, I wonder if this isn't partially done for the show. Because if there's no records for a family after 1950, that in and of itself, itself needs to be its own clue. Like I was thinking, what they learn about why that is the case, they'll always know. And next time that happens, they'll look for this thing.

[Julie Benzoli]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So I felt like this was a little bit done for them, which is fine. I don't mind.

[Julie Benzoli]

Oh, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

But, like, if the family tree just ends at 1950, there's gotta be a reason for that. Yeah.

[Julie Benzoli]

You know, so they dive back in.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julie Benzoli]

And they're doing all their work, and they find a name. Tariq El Amin. And Janelle is like, oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

They see this whole line of El Amin. They're like, who are these people?

[Julie Benzoli]

She found that, like, quote, missing branch of the family that wasn't connecting in their work.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, after 1950 disappears.

[Janelle Daniels]

And the reason why we couldn't trace them is because they changed their names.

[Patrick Hines]

Alonzo Smith became Tariq El Amin.

[Janelle Daniels]

It's a Muslim name. So it's possible that they changed your name for religious reasons.

[Julie Benzoli]

It's because they're Muslim and they changed their names.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes. And I'm like.

[Julie Benzoli]

Like, that's why they couldn't find them.

[Patrick Hines]

I bet this happens kind of frequently.

[Julie Benzoli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

You know what I mean?

[Julie Benzoli]

And they say that, like, a lot of times, and I've never seen anyone do this, but in their lot of. They're the experts, but they say a lot of times, like, when you do something like this, you post about it online.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julie Benzoli]

So they found Tariq El Amin, and then through that, they find Tariq Jr who posted the tree online. Where does Tariq Jr live?

[Patrick Hines]

He lives in Chicago.

[Julie Benzoli]

He lives in Chicago.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julie Benzoli]

And Janelle is so sweet because she's. She's, like, laughing a little bit. And like, we just said, like, you can't get too excited because you really never know. But she's like, it's good, it's good, it's good, it's good. Like, she's trying to hold it, but she really like this. I took a screenshot. Like, her smile is just like the.

[Patrick Hines]

Other thing in this moment that she says, too. Is she like, I can't wait to tell Scott tomorrow.

[Julie Benzoli]

I can't wait.

[Patrick Hines]

But I was like, oh, that's only for the show. Like, they're like, you can't. Like, you can't. We need to get the camera crew when you tell them. So, like, if this were real life, like, she'd be texting him a bitch. Wake up. I got the answer.

[Julie Benzoli]

So Janella, Scott, meet up again. They're calling Tariq Jr. Even in my notes, I have. Oh, my God, it's ringing.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God.

[Scott McCord]

Oh, my God.

[Julie Benzoli]

Like, all letters, like gibberish. Like, this is it. This is it. Yeah, this is it.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, then Tariq answers the phone, and then, like, we've got the good news, but then all of a sudden, like, Scott's like, like, what do I say to this guy?

[Julie Benzoli]

Right?

[Patrick Hines]

And he gives him all the details.

[Scott McCord]

Hey, the reason I called, many, many years ago, the remains of a young man were found here in my county. And it seems that you could possibly be a descendant or a relative of this un. Young man.

[Patrick Hines]

Wow. So, yeah, I have an older cousin who went missing in the 80s. The early 80s.

[Julie Benzoli]

Oh, I had an older cousin who went missing in the early 80s.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julie Benzoli]

And I'm like, oh, my God. So remember Lula.

[Patrick Hines]

Awesome name.

[Julie Benzoli]

Lula and Sam. They are his paternal great grandparents. I just want to Slow down on how insane this is. Because earlier they were like, you know what we need? You know what would solve this? If we had a cousin who had the same great grandparents.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Julie Benzoli]

And that. And here we are.

[Patrick Hines]

And here we are.

[Julie Benzoli]

And like. Like, it's so amazing.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Scott McCord]

Yeah.

[Julie Benzoli]

So they're so happy. And, like, Scott has. Does a little whisper, like, yes, yes. Like, and then he's like, oh, can I cry now? Because, again, this is complicated. They, like, it's a win in so many ways, and we can be happy and exhilarated, but at the same time.

[Patrick Hines]

It'S a loss for the family, and.

[Julie Benzoli]

We have to give this horrible, tragic news.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And like, that moment where Scott says, can I cry now? I was like, a, I felt so seen. But B, men be vulnerable.

[Julie Benzoli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

You know what I mean?

[Julie Benzoli]

I think he was saying, like, not so fast, because we do have to do the DNA swabs again. We're so, so, so close. You cry now. Not yet.

[Patrick Hines]

Not yet.

[Julie Benzoli]

Yes, not yet.

[Patrick Hines]

But it was just his instinct to cry and the fact that he was willing to say it out loud. More of this men.

[Julie Benzoli]

I know. His little whisper.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes, yes. Yeah.

[Julie Benzoli]

So they go to Chicago. They meet with Tariq. They share information. They have the release. They are so prepared. They have the release forms. They have the Q tips, they have the swabs.

[Patrick Hines]

But they're hoping for a sibling because they don't know if they're gonna get one yet because Tariq is a cousin, and they want to do a sibling because that would be the closest match.

[Julie Benzoli]

Right. And so, like, there are a lot of emotions here because we cannot forget that Adam Doe is the victim of a serial killer.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julie Benzoli]

There's. There's tr. Tragedy here. Major.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julie Benzoli]

So there's a lot going on, because.

[Patrick Hines]

Once again, the family, like, very well could just believe that he ran away and is out there somewhere.

[Julie Benzoli]

Right. You know, and we don't know family dynamics. We don't know what happens. Like, we will learn about this person's story.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julie Benzoli]

Like, I'm just telling you now.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julie Benzoli]

So, yes, you can cry, but, like, we don't know these dynamics. Like, we're people watching a story. Like, we don't know any history about anything.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. And I don't know if it's the case in this one, but, like, as a gay person who's read a lot of gay history, all I was thinking was, like, what if he really was thrown out by his family and his family doesn't care? Or what if he had a miserable existence and he ran away thinking his family will never love him. And now they've spent all of this time regretting that they made him feel that way. Like, just, you know, as a gay person, like, these emotions are also at my heart.

[Julie Benzoli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So I would also like to cry. Thank you so much.

[Julie Benzoli]

Everyone's allowed to cry.

[Patrick Hines]

Thank you so much.

[Julie Benzoli]

Except the serial killers.

[Patrick Hines]

No, no. They don't know how to cry. So it's okay. No. Travel down the road. Back again, girl. Drip Drop is back. Look, when I'm hydrate, find that everything just works better. My energy, my mood, my focus, literally everything improves. That's why I've been using Drip Drop at the gym. I take it with me every single day.

[Julie Benzoli]

Yeah. So here's the thing. Drip Drop is doctor developed proven fast hydration that helps your body and your mind work better.

[Patrick Hines]

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[Julie Benzoli]

Yeah. So you feel the results fast. So you're like more focused, you have better energy, improved mood, even glowing skin.

[Patrick Hines]

We forget how important it is to hydrate. Fam. Drip Drop science backed formula is trusted by firefighters, medical professionals, and over 90% of top college and pro teams.

[Julie Benzoli]

And us.

[Patrick Hines]

And us.

[Julie Benzoli]

Let me tell you, it tastes amazing.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julie Benzoli]

So they have 16 original flavors and eight zero sugar options. I am really loving the zero sugar passion fruit.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. I've been a lemon lime girly for a long time now. It's my favorite thing.

[Julie Benzoli]

You know what I mean? You could have it in the morning. You could have it like, oh, I kind of to need like a 3pm hydration boost or even at night.

[Patrick Hines]

It really makes me drink more water. Like I would not drink water throughout the day without this.

[Julie Benzoli]

It's true. It's true.

[Patrick Hines]

So right now, Drip drop is offering TCL listeners 20% off your first order.

[Julie Benzoli]

Go to drip drop.com and use promo code TCO.

[Patrick Hines]

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[Julie Benzoli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julie Benzoli]

Right this minute, please and thank you. So Tariq El Amin is a cousin of Adam Doe.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julie Benzoli]

Now we meet Iqra, who is Tariq's cousin.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julie Benzoli]

And I'm like, wait, are you Adam Doe's brother? Can you possibly be? So Iqra Ikra says I was three.

[Patrick Hines]

Years old, so I Don't remember vividly, but I have heard the stories and everything matches as far as it was around that same time and the age and everything, you know? Yeah. Mom, come look at this. This composite, them eyes, but those eyes and eyebrows do look real similar.

[Julie Benzoli]

This is all matching up for him.

[Patrick Hines]

And I want to say that Ikra's demeanor is different than Tariq's. Like, Tariq, the cousin who's been, I think, a little bit prepped by the producers or whatever. Iqra, I think, is in an emotional. He's having a moment. Like, he's sitting there and he doesn't know how to take all this is his brother, you know, potentially.

[Julie Benzoli]

And it's also like, why is this cop here wanting my DNA is going on 100%. Like, what is happening here? You found me. How? Like, how did you connect these dots? It begs many, many, many questions.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And so it's not confirmed yet, but there, you know, Scott and Janelle are showing the composite sketch to the family. They're like, it definitely matches. We learned that the height matches. We know that the DOE is about 5, 10, and that the missing brother, we hear his name for the first time. We hear somebody in the background saying, kaif.

[Julie Benzoli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And we will eventually have him be identified. But, like, the first time I heard that, I was like, we have a fucking.

[Julie Benzoli]

Because they're calling family. Like, not all the family's there. Like, the team is asking questions, the family's giving answers. Height, date of birth, eye color, Like. Yeah, because the more they're talking in person, the more they're like, wait, let me call my aunt and ask. Let me call my cousin and ask.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julie Benzoli]

So it's really amazing to watch. And then once they sort of like, Scott and Janelle kind of confer and they're like, we have to tell the family what we know.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And they tell him he was a.

[Scott McCord]

Victim of Larry Iler.

[Patrick Hines]

Why? Wow. Oh, you all got his picture? Oh, you already seen it? Y' all looked him up?

[Scott McCord]

No.

[Patrick Hines]

Let me see it. Just sick.

[Julie Benzoli]

He look crazy sick.

[Patrick Hines]

They're holding up his Wikipedia page and they're, like, looking at him. He looks sick. Like, he looks insane.

[Julie Benzoli]

So they do these DNA swabs, and when Ikra's DNA result comes back, it confirms that he's the brother.

[Patrick Hines]

It's him.

[Julie Benzoli]

And Adam Doe's birth name is Keith Levi Bibs. And I'm crying.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julie Benzoli]

And then more on screen text. Adam Doe's birth name is Keith Lavelle Bibbs, later changed to Kaif Bismillah.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julie Benzoli]

Now his father's here, his sisters are here, and they're sitting down to tell us about Kaif.

[Patrick Hines]

Can I just say one thing? I know that I'm being an insufferable homosexual. I know I am. His birth date. His birth date is June 28, 1967. Two years to the day before Stonewall.

[Janelle Daniels]

Wow.

[Patrick Hines]

I don't know if he was gay. I'm not saying that he was gay. I have no idea. But I know.

[Julie Benzoli]

We don't know, but this.

[Patrick Hines]

This serial killer targeted gay men, and his birth date is two years to the day before Star Wars.

[Julie Benzoli]

Yeah. That's crazy.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julie Benzoli]

So we meet Tamara, Kaif's sister, Lynette, his eldest sister, and they tell us Kaif was a protector. And, you know, he was 15 when he was murdered. But his sisters say, like, he was an adventurer, and he would take them places but still make sure they were safe the whole time.

[Patrick Hines]

He would take them on the city bus into Chicago, and the sisters are like, I don't know if we were allowed to do that. But he did that anyway.

[Julie Benzoli]

We always felt safe with him.

[Patrick Hines]

Him. Yes.

[Julie Benzoli]

And the sisters talk about converting to Islam as children, and they're like, look, it was really, really strict, and the community was your entire life. And Lynette says, my brother and I, meaning Kai, like, they weren't ready for that.

[Patrick Hines]

No.

[Julie Benzoli]

So Kai was feeling, we learned from his family, like, stifled and controlled. He wanted to see the world, and he didn't want to be in that strict lifestyle. So he would run away a lot and always come home.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Like, that's the other thing here is, like, one of the reasons why his family didn't report him missing for two months was he would run away often. We weren't too concerned because that's what he did. He'd leave home and then come back.

[Julie Benzoli]

Kaif is probably over Aunt Riri's or Grandma's or Aunt Puddin.

[Patrick Hines]

He would oftentimes go to Grandma's or Aunt Puddin's house.

[Julie Benzoli]

Yeah. Aunt Puddin, you know, and, like, stay with family so they knew where he was and. Or that he was safe. And I think this is another thing, too. Like, this piece of shit serial killer was targeting people who, like, he assumed wouldn't be looked for. So that can be any number of things. But one of them can be, like, a black kid who is running away from a stifling community and lifestyle.

[Patrick Hines]

You know, I'm just stuck on the fact that he would give them money, you know? Cause I'm like, was it money. Like was it, was it for sex work? Like what was like what was that?

[Julie Benzoli]

But I mean, this is called the hitchhiker. So Kaif was traveling, he was looking for an adventure. You always need money.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, that's true.

[Julie Benzoli]

Like a 15 year old kid in 1983 needs money to get from point A to B. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And he was just trying to get home. I'm still stuck on an Puddin. I know an Puddin and it's spelled Puddin apostrophe. I'm obsessed.

[Julie Benzoli]

She had like the good food.

[Patrick Hines]

No question. She would be the one that would like sign your test when you got the D. You know what I mean? Like we all need n Puddin.

[Julie Benzoli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

And the dad is here to say that like when Kai left, he left because he was upset with the dad. And the dad has lived with that since 1983.

[Julie Benzoli]

But they tell us, you know, like this time he didn't come back. And so when the cops were called, nothing happened. No, they didn't help, they didn't care. And Tamara, his sister, says, I don't believe the authorities helped at all. I don't, I don't believe the, the authorities even. No, he was just another black kid missing. He was just another black kid missing, which is what this piece of shit killer was banking on.

[Patrick Hines]

Exactly.

[Julie Benzoli]

So Kai now is able to be buried with his mother. She died about 10 years before this.

[Patrick Hines]

Discovery and like according to the family, was absolutely tortured by him being missing. Like, like that was. How could you not be?

[Julie Benzoli]

Yeah, this fear of the unknown, you know, sometimes like when you're. Those kinds of thoughts are worse possibly than what action, you know, you just.

[Patrick Hines]

Like your kid is just not there. You know what I mean? Yeah.

[Julie Benzoli]

But now like the family's able to have a burial and they have a special service and everyone's speaking and Janelle and Scott are there and they're like.

[Patrick Hines]

We get to like go to the memorial service for Kaif and it is absolutely amazing.

[Julie Benzoli]

And they're like giving Janelle and Scott a round of applause and they're welcoming them to the family. They say, no, this is cousin Scott.

[Patrick Hines]

It's really a beautiful thing to watch.

[Julie Benzoli]

And it's like, it's so sad, but so beautiful. And like the work is so important. It's hard, but it's important. It's just all of these sort of dichotomies at once.

[Patrick Hines]

The family has a lot to say about the DNA Doe project. Like Tariq says, the work of the DNA DOE project, Janelle, the team that she's a part of just being able to give people back the dignity of their name, their identity. That's huge.

[Julie Benzoli]

It gives closure where there is none. Even after 40 years. That's a miracle. It's miraculous.

[Patrick Hines]

The work that these people are doing really is such a gift.

[Janelle Daniels]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

To be able to give these families closure in a way that was impossible ten years ago.

[Julie Benzoli]

Answers. And so now they're having this, you know, celebration of life or this burial, the ceremony. And every member of the family that they could have called, they called. So now all of these people are together for the first time in a long time. The first time maybe ever.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julie Benzoli]

So they say, like, there's a joy that comes out of the sadness because the family is together and reconnecting in ways that they would not have.

[Patrick Hines]

And they have answers now. There's no way that, like, having the answer isn't, you know, like, that closure must be so. I don't know what the right word is, but having that closure since 1983, to know finally what happened must be very relieving.

[Julie Benzoli]

I agree. I agree. And so it's, like, beautiful to see the whole family together. And I hope those ladies and gentlemen at the DOE project had a nice little, you know, champagne, a nice little whatever you want to drink for yourself or whatever to celebrate. Because, like, all of that hard work, it's really, like, methodical.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julie Benzoli]

It's heavy, you know? And so to finally. So many dead ends and to finally have this sort of beautiful even though it's sad moment is like, we'll take that. Unbelievable.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God, girl. We did. What's it called?

[Julie Benzoli]

So this is naming the dead. It's a new series. It's excellent. We will be covering more for sure.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay, great.

[Julie Benzoli]

And this is season one, episode one. It's on Hulu fam.

[Patrick Hines]

Just to close the loop from the cold open, I'd like you to go into the group and tell us your favorite song from life of a showgirl. Now. Now you listen to me, fam, Please. We will not be fighting about this album in the group. No. If you hate it, you hate it.

[Julie Benzoli]

It's not a problem.

[Patrick Hines]

You hate it. But please don't fight about it. I don't want Sasha getting mad at us.

[Julie Benzoli]

And let me tell you something. I love Sad Sack Taylor.

[Patrick Hines]

Jesus Christ.

[Julie Benzoli]

Sad Sack Taylor has saved my life on more than one occasion. I love it, but also deserve bops.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Janelle Daniels]

100.

[Julie Benzoli]

She. God damn it. So if you hate it, fine. But again, that's not really my problem.

[Patrick Hines]

No. And like, I just don't want this to turn into a nightmare. We all love each other. This is a great community. Let's stay.

[Julie Benzoli]

Are you, like, worried about people fighting over this record?

[Patrick Hines]

Yes, I am. Yes. I mean, I've been paying close attention to the Internet. There's some people are mad.

[Julie Benzoli]

Step one, remove yourself from the Internet.

[Patrick Hines]

I know.

[Julie Benzoli]

Take a breather.

[Patrick Hines]

I know, I know. Take a breather. All right. I'm going to go bury my head in the sand. Love you.

[Julie Benzoli]

Love you.

[Patrick Hines]

Bye. Bye.