486: Hunting Phil Spector (from "Homicide: Los Angeles")

Summary

Podcast Summary: True Crime Obsessed – "Hunting Phil Spector" (Ep. 486)

Date: February 24, 2026
Podcast: True Crime Obsessed
Hosts: Jillian Benavale & Patrick Hinds
Original Doc: “Hunting Phil Spector” (from "Homicide: Los Angeles," Netflix)

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Episode Overview

This episode, Jillian and Patrick deliver their signature blend of humor, outrage, and heart as they recap "Hunting Phil Spector." The Netflix doc episode covers the 2003 murder of actress Lana Clarkson in the home of the legendary—and infamous—music producer Phil Spector. The recap delves into Spector’s legacy in music, the details of the case, the struggles for justice, and the complex characters surrounding the story, all while sharply critiquing celebrity culture and systemic failures that enable powerful men to hurt others.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Phil Spector: Cultural Icon & Villain

• Spector’s Musical Legacy: Patrick uses his expertise in pop culture and music history to explain the "wall of sound" technique Spector pioneered, which revolutionized pop music in the 1960s.

  “He, like, changed everything, but he's the worst fucking person I know. Sucks.” (Patrick, 00:15)

• His Dark Side: Both hosts emphasize repeatedly that Spector’s genius is inseparable from his monstrous personal behavior—known for gun violence, misogyny, and control.

Spector’s History of Abuse

• Hosts discuss Spector’s abuse of Ronnie Spector (Ronettes), keeping her captive, and his violent intimidation of artists during recording sessions.

  "He would hide her shoes so she couldn't leave...[she] finally like snuck out of the house barefoot and called her mother." (Patrick, 39:14)

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2. The Crime Scene & Immediate Investigation

[09:05–13:06]

• Setting: Lana Clarkson is found dead in Spector's decrepit Alhambra mansion, described as run-down, filthy, and "haunted."
• First Response:
  • Spector is hostile, ranting, and must be tased and restrained by police.
  • He claims Clarkson killed herself:

    “She certainly had no right to come to my fucking castle and blow her fucking head open.” (Spector, via audio, 12:37)

• Immediate Doubts:
  • Spector’s erratic behavior and disturbing comments raise immediate suspicion.
  • The gruesome state of the body (teeth blown across the room) makes suicide unlikely.

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3. Lana Clarkson’s Life & Circumstances

[21:01–23:23]

• Clarkson, described as “gorgeous,” tall, and hard-working, was a hustling actress who often networked for survival jobs.

  "She was six feet tall and gorgeous...[she] was a working actor, always out, always networking." (Jillian, 23:10 & Patrick, 24:06)

• After fracturing both wrists, she took a job as hostess at the House of Blues—a coveted networking spot—which put her in Spector’s sights.

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4. What Actually Happened? Reconstruction of Lana’s Last Night

[25:05–26:44]

• Chauffeur Testimony – Adriano d’Souza:
  • Drove Spector and Clarkson home after a night of drinking.
  • At 5am, hears a “popping noise,” sees Spector with blood on his hands, saying, “I think I killed somebody.”
  • Adriano runs for his life and contacts the authorities.

  “This is a white rich, pow, super powerful man in Hollywood. And he's the non white driver. Yet he fucking ran.” (Patrick, 26:37)

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5. Physical Evidence & Crime Scene Forensics

[20:15–20:48, 27:32–28:05]

• Evidence Details:
  • .38 caliber gun, Lana shot in the mouth at a downward angle (inconsistent with suicide).
  • Blood found on a diaper (used to wipe gun), lock mechanism removed to trap guests—a known Spector control tactic.
• Detective’s Process:
  • Detectives treat all suspicious deaths as potential homicides.
  • The medical examiner refuses to rule until all facts are in.

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6. Spector’s Pattern of Abuse

[45:28–49:51]

• Multiple Incidents: Spector had a “long sordid history” of gun violence, threatening celebrities (e.g., John Lennon, Leonard Cohen), and locking people in his home.
• Host Quote:

  “So it's this crazy thing of, like, it's not even that he wants to hang out with you longer, he just wants you to be his property.” (Jillian, 48:19)

• Testimony: At trial, five women testify to Spector pulling guns, threatening, and trapping them.

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7. Courtroom Dramas & Systemic Critiques

• Delays and Defense Tactics: Spector stalls trial with money and high-powered lawyers (notably fires Robert Shapiro, of the O.J. Simpson case).
• Jury Dysfunction: Despite overwhelming testimony, the first trial results in a hung jury (four guilty, five not guilty, four undecided), largely due to the celebrity aura and defense attacks on Lana’s character.

  “We had to relitigate for the jurors that didn't get it or fell for the misinformation the defense gave.” (Juror Richard, 60:27)

• Defense’s Attacks on Lana:
  • Spector’s wife, Rochelle Short, is openly mocking in court; the defense insists Lana was suicidal, which is not supported by evidence or her family’s account.

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8. Justice for Lana

• Retrial: Eventually, after a mistrial, a second jury convicts Spector of murder.
• Sentence: Spector is sentenced to 19 years to life, dying in prison of COVID in 2020.

  "And so Phil Spector is hauled away to prison. He gets 19 years to life, and he is dead. Yeah, he died of COVID." (Patrick, 64:08)

• Final Thoughts:
  • The hosts urge whoever owns the music masters to “do the right thing” by Spector’s victims, especially the exploited women musicians.

---

Notable Quotes & Moments

On Spector's Violence:

“Phil Spector pulls a gun on Leonard Cohen...and says, 'You're gonna go sing this now?'”
—Patrick (45:38)

On the Wall of Sound & Legacy:

“Be My Baby by the Ronettes is a perfect example [of the wall of sound]...He pioneered it and changed everything, but he’s the worst fucking person I know.”
—Patrick (37:03, 00:15)

On Systemic Problems:

“The defense can't just get 20 [high-paid experts]...it's just a completely unfair system.”
—Jillian (43:01)

On Jury Difficulties:

“We had to relitigate...for jurors that either didn't get it or fell for misinformation the defense gave.”—Juror Richard (60:27)

On Spector’s Wife's Inappropriate Behavior:

“She's in court, laughing—a star-fucker wife...How anybody thinks that plays well with the jury?”
—Jillian (59:11)

Comic Relief/Human Moments:

“He calls Lana’s hand a paw, like an animal paw. I thought of Catherine O’Hara in Home Alone: Santa says, ‘Hold out your little paw there.’”
—Patrick (57:13)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:15 – Spector’s wall of sound and Patrick’s pop culture rant
• 12:37 – Spector’s chilling recorded tantrum: “No right to come to my castle and blow her fucking head open”
• 21:47 – Family learns of Lana's death
• 25:57–26:32 – Chauffer Adriano witnesses Spector’s confession
• 37:03 – The wall of sound explained; Be My Baby as example
• 39:14 – Spector’s abuse of Ronnie Spector
• 45:38 – Spector pulling gun on Leonard Cohen
• 54:02 – Five women testify against Spector
• 60:27 – Jury relitigates—and deadlocks—in first trial

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Tone & Style

• Language: Candid, expletive-laden, irreverently funny while expressing deep outrage over injustice.
• Empathy: Genuine compassion for victims, cutting critique of Spector and enablers.
• Banter: Signature TCO chemistry—Patrick and Jillian play off each other’s humor and indignation.
• Pop Culture Touchstones: Frequent references to other famous figures (Ronettes, John Lennon, O.J. Simpson) and connection to broader celebrity crime narratives.

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Conclusion

This episode is a thorough, entertaining, and ultimately enraging critique of how celebrity, wealth, and systemic bias can derail justice. By balancing grim facts with humor and humanity, Jillian and Patrick call out both Phil Spector’s crimes and the failures that lay beyond a single case—while reminding us to celebrate the real lives lost, like Lana Clarkson.

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Next Up:
“Manhunt: Joanne Dennehy” (Apple TV / Prime)—a deep dive into one of Britain’s most infamous female serial killers.

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For more episodes and community, find TCO on YouTube and Discord!

Transcript

[Jillian Bezavale]

Are you ready?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. I'm gonna be so annoying.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Good. This is a great cold open. Tell me everything.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm gonna be so annoying. Cause I, like, I took a lot of, like, pop culture music and the American experience classes in college. And, like, I'm gonna, like, tell you about the wall of sound. It's gonna be so annoying.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Oh, that's. I didn't take any notes on that, so that's great. You can tell me all about it.

[Patrick Hines]

He, like, changed everything, but he's the worst fucking person I know. Sucks.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Hi, Jillian Bezavale.

[Narrator/Expert]

Hello.

[Patrick Hines]

Patrick Hines.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Tell them what's happening.

[Patrick Hines]

We are in a new space. We are in a now in New York City, thanks to Mike and Roger, who are helping us out here. Not my mic, a different mic. Our mic. And it's, like, beautiful and fancy and we're here today.

[Jillian Bezavale]

It feels like we don't deserve it. We'll see if we can earn the space by the end of this recording.

[Patrick Hines]

Imposter syndrome is still buried.

[Jillian Bezavale]

What are we supposed to tell them about today?

[Patrick Hines]

We are supposed to tell them about the YouTube and the Discord today.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Okay, fam, Join us on the YouTube. We're at, like, 250,000 YouTube subscribers. It's insane. And what's the other one?

[Patrick Hines]

Discord.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Oh, well, that's you, the Discord.

[Patrick Hines]

We have a Discord server and there are all these fun channels and everyone's like, really, really nice and kind, and it's just fun. If you know Discord. It's like a really nice, safe space in the Discord world.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Like, if you're looking for community, go hang out there, make some friends.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Get involved.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. I let you guys know usually today. I forgot, sorry, like, what we're recording today. Oh, you're falling down on the job.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Pens a volume.

[Patrick Hines]

I know. I've been really bad about it.

[Jillian Bezavale]

It's what they've been calling you in there all day.

[Patrick Hines]

I know.

[Jillian Bezavale]

You know what I mean.

[Patrick Hines]

Or I don't know because I've been a total jerk. But now that I said it on the mic, I have to do it. So I'm gonna be back.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Girl, tell them what we're talking about today.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay, so this is called Hunting Phil Spector. It's an episode of Homicide Los Angeles on Netflix. We've never done an episode of the show, but instead of doing, like, the six part Phil Spector thing, we're doing this because we have so much to do on the Patreon.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Is the show older? Look, it's very stylized. It's Very Dick Wolf. I'm really into it, but I was like. I was like. As soon as I saw his name come up, I'm like, what year is this from?

[Patrick Hines]

Like a year or two ago.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Okay.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jillian Bezavale]

It's very cool. It's actually very well done.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bezavale]

I don't know how you get six episodes out of this. They nailed it.

[Patrick Hines]

I know. It's like one. It's like, I just hate him so much.

[Jillian Bezavale]

I know.

[Detective Rich Tomlin]

Waiting at the Alhambra Police Department in custody was Phil Spector.

[Medical Examiner/Expert]

I knew from the phone call from my lieutenant that he was a very wealthy music producer.

[Detective Rich Tomlin]

Me personally, I never heard of him.

[Lana Clarkson's Family Member/Friend]

Spector's style is often credited with changing

[Patrick Hines]

how we hear pop music.

[Narrator/Expert]

This case was going to be what I call red ball. A case that's going to draw a lot of attention. And you have to recognize that going in. And I think we all did.

[Medical Examiner/Expert]

This is murder. There's no more serious crime.

[Jillian Bezavale]

It boils down to a passion and a sense of duty.

[Narrator/Expert]

Justice comes from finding the truth.

[Jillian Bezavale]

So we open with some on screen text. It says, the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Office is the largest sheriff's department in the country, serving the most populated county in the nation. They investigate the most brutal and complicated murders. These are their stories.

[Patrick Hines]

You gotta do it. It's like a tick.

[Jillian Bezavale]

As soon as they said, these are their stories, I was like, this has

[Patrick Hines]

gotta be a Gulf joint thing for sure.

[Jillian Bezavale]

So. Wow. Because I was also thinking, like, this would make a great, like, whatever the. Whatever. The thing that he makes is Law and Order. Yeah. That's what like. Like Law and Order. Los Angeles would be amazing. But, like, I feel like this is easier and less expensive.

[Patrick Hines]

Let's do it this way.

[Jillian Bezavale]

You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Guess who else is here. Alan Jackson.

[Jillian Bezavale]

It is so wild because we know Ellen Jackson as a defense attorney. We know him as the Karen Reed guy. He was the guy that was defending Rob Reinerston and then stepped away for whatever reason. Like, he's that guy. I did not know that he was a prosecutor.

[Patrick Hines]

He was. He was. I think we talked about it, like, quickly in the Karen Reid thing. What's also funny is that during our coverage of the Karen Reed documentary, everyone was so surprised that we didn't reference the country singer Alan Jackson. And I'm like, how was everyone surprised that we didn't reference.

[Jillian Bezavale]

I don't even know who that is to this day.

[Patrick Hines]

I looked him up. He's that guy that did that really shitty money grab. Like, where were you when the Terrorists. Harris attacked us on 911 song that was everywhere. Like, that's that guy.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Oh, God.

[Patrick Hines]

Everyone surprised we didn't mention him.

[Jillian Bezavale]

I texted our friend Stacy Keenan, who was a prosecutor in la. She worked with Alan Jackson because, well, he was. He started. We're going to learn in this episode. He started with the O.J. case. Which way predates her. She was still, like, on Step By Step at that time. You know what I mean? But I'll ask her if I can. Let's ask Relay what she said.

[Patrick Hines]

Let's bring it to the chat.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

But he. Alan Jackson is telling us there's something

[Defense Expert/Commentator]

special and different about celebrity cases. And it's always been Los Angeles that seems to be the epicenter of those types of cases.

[Jillian Bezavale]

I love, too, that they always trot Lori Loughlin out for the B roll when they talk about that. Like, there she is, walking. She's never gonna. I don't care how many seasons Fuller House goes on, she's never gonna live it down.

[Patrick Hines]

Fuller House.

[Defense Expert/Commentator]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Just give me a break. I know Mark Lilienfeld is here. This guy is a real piece of work.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Did you.

[Patrick Hines]

Did that name feel familiar to you?

[Jillian Bezavale]

No, but I was like. There's, like, a moment here that I was like. I felt like. You felt very seen by him.

[Patrick Hines]

And unfortunately, it's like all these people who are pieces of shit.

[Jillian Bezavale]

I thought he was, like, such a sweet old man.

[Patrick Hines]

No, I. I was like, why do I know that name? And I looked at him.

[Jillian Bezavale]

You're gonna break my heart.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, for sure. He's just a real piece of work. But he has all of these. This, like, documented history starting in 2008, where he was, like, calling women broads and, like, using profanity during training sessions and all this stuff. Then he retired in 2016, but then he kept getting hired as, like, an outside professional source.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Oh, no. Don't get this guy in the stand, though.

[Patrick Hines]

But then doing all this shady shit, like sneaking in contraband to inmates. And then the big grand finale was in 2024, where he was doing Nazi salutes on the job. So he's on the do not hire list. And he was, like, forced to resign in disgrace.

[Jillian Bezavale]

And yet they put him in this documentary.

[Patrick Hines]

They sure did. And he's, like, supposed to be the offshocks kind of guy, but he's, like. He's, like, doing the Nazi salute as of 2024. It's like a racist nightmare.

[Narrator/Expert]

No.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, but he's here. He's here, too.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Oh, man. I got to go through and take out like 90% of my humor.

[Patrick Hines]

No, it's fine. Oh, my God. But like, he's just saying that. Like, he's like, look, got a lot of poverty and a lot of wealth like celebrities. It's. Everyone's having a grand old time.

[Jillian Bezavale]

I got to imagine it's like a real adventure to be like a police officer in L. A or a prosecutor or anybody involved in the justice system. Because one day you're dealing with me and then the next day you're dealing with Michael Jackson.

[Patrick Hines]

Right? Like, you never, you never really know what's going on.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yeah, girl. Hi is back. Look, new year, new you. If you're looking for a resolution, fam, how about getting your kids to actually get vitamins that are good for them and also taste good?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. New year, new them.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Basically, because everyone, this is all for the kids. It's like those kids vitamins that they taste like candy but they aren't candy. They are actually good for your children.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Listen, Daisy loves them. We're a real test case. They come with bottles and they send you stickers to decorate. She loves that part. It gets her excited about it. It's the first thing she goes for every morning.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, we're talking like vitamin D, B12, vitamin C, zinc, folate.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Who knew kids needed folate? Guess what? They do.

[Jillian Bezavale]

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[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. I mean, it's amazing. It's definitely something kids need. And also the ingredient list is clean.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Non GMO vegan dairy, allergy free, gelatin free, nut free. These people have thought of everything.

[Jillian Bezavale]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Jillian Bezavale]

Go to h I y a h e a l t h.com tco and get your kids the full body nourishment they need to grow into. Healthy and.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, like disguised as chocolate milk.

[Jillian Bezavale]

I mean, honest to goodness, my goodness gracious.

[Patrick Hines]

Rich Tomlin is all. He's like the lead detective here. And he seems to be the one that's like, no, this job's really hard.

[Detective Rich Tomlin]

At the time, my children were seven and nine. People were saying they're too young because it is a lot of hours and there's always something to do. But we worked around our family life. Now, if that meant right after we're going back in the office at 10 o' clock at night to get it done, then that's what we were going to do.

[Patrick Hines]

He just explains how hard it is to do the work life balance when you're a homicide detective in Los angeles in the 90s.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yes, 100%.

[Patrick Hines]

And so like he, he'd work and then like, try to be home for dinner or like put the kids to bed and then back he's back at the office at 10 o'. Clock.

[Jillian Bezavale]

What is he, a true crime podcast?

[Patrick Hines]

You know, and then just like, okay, like back on the case. Like, bye, honey.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, it's February 3, 2003. It's 7:00am Rich is about to get off work when he gets a call like, that's the end of the shift. It's like, sorry, girl, you're not going home.

[Patrick Hines]

Hat in hand.

[Jillian Bezavale]

As he said, he's being assigned to a case at a mansion in a neighborhood called Alhambra.

[Patrick Hines]

Alhambra.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Al what?

[Patrick Hines]

Alhambra.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Alhambra. It's la. Like, you don't know. I don't know how to say these words. Alhambra. But this is not a home. This is not a mansion. This is a fucking castle.

[Patrick Hines]

It's so weird because they say that Alhambra is like a, quote, Sleepy Hollow. It's a small town. It's middle class, single family residences. And then Rich goes, then there's this monstrosity in the middle of everything, AKA Phil Spector's, like, house of horrors.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yeah. And they do that thing where they zoom out and you're like, yeah, there are like just two story homes all around it. And then there's like 200 acres of this castle. And he refers to it as his castle himself. You can't do that. If you're the rich guy that lives in the castle, you gotta say, my house.

[Patrick Hines]

And it's also like, ugly. And it's in massive disrepair.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Not well kept, full of rodents and vermin. And I'm not just talking about Phil Spector. They're also like, mice and roaches.

[Jillian Bezavale]

I can live with. With, like, dishes in the sink for five days. Mice and roaches, Absolutely.

[Patrick Hines]

I got news for you. Day six, the mice and roaches are coming. That's what happens.

[Jillian Bezavale]

That's why I got married. I know, I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Invites them. Danny Smith is also here. He's like, it was a circus. There are news crews everywhere because everyone knows, like, oh, that big haunted mansion at the top of the hill, That's Phil Spectrum.

[Jillian Bezavale]

And, like, he looks like the ghoul that would live in the haunted. 100%.

[Patrick Hines]

He's a true ghoul. Five foot six, crypt keeper with, like, a wig collection. So the sheriff's department covers all of Los Angeles county, which is enormous.

[Detective Rich Tomlin]

And in that county, you have smaller municipalities. They have their own police department. However, they don't have the resources that the Sheriff's department has. There are a hundred homicide detectives in the LA County Sheriff's Department. So they will reach out to us and we will assume responsibility for the case.

[Jillian Bezavale]

You're really punching that H just to let me have it. You're just really hammering.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm punching the Am, not the, ah, the Am. I went back, I was like, it Ambra. But Rich says Ambrose, so I can't

[Jillian Bezavale]

say it because I already forgotten what it is.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, we're going to move on from it in two seconds because the L A Sheriff's Department takes over.

[Jillian Bezavale]

I didn't really know that, like, L. A County was that densely populated.

[Patrick Hines]

Huge.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yeah, I guess it's big. I didn't know there was that many people there.

[Patrick Hines]

A lot.

[Jillian Bezavale]

And why wouldn't they be? It's nice, like, warm.

[Patrick Hines]

So here's what the local police say when they hand the case over. They're like, we got a 911 call from Phil Spector's chauffeur.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Now, my note here. Chauffeur is the hardest word in the English language to spell. I can't spell it.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, really?

[Jillian Bezavale]

C, H, E. I can't.

[Patrick Hines]

Pseudonym's pretty bad.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Pseudonym is tough. Pseudonym is pretty.

[Patrick Hines]

It's like, how many Y's? Where are they?

[Jillian Bezavale]

I was having a hard time with publicly for the last 25 years. There's no way.

[Patrick Hines]

Really.

[Jillian Bezavale]

There's no way. It's just ly. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

People spell it with a L, L, Y.

[Jillian Bezavale]

They do. It's not just me.

[Patrick Hines]

No.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Chauffeur's bad. So when the cops get there, they describe seeing Phil Spector. There's a dead woman in his parlor. They see him up, up in the ghoul.

[Patrick Hines]

He is literally out of a horror movie, pacing and ranting and raving in the big, like, arch window upstairs. The cops, quote, enter the home, confront Phil Spector, and guess what? He is not cooperative.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And they clearly see a dead body. Now, they take way too long to say the name Lana Clarkson.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So they see Lana Clarkson and they say that she's slumped over in a chair and she's clearly dead. And, like, as they're. The cops are like, what is going on here? Phil Spector is ranting and raving, and somehow in 2003, we have the audio. We hear him.

[Jillian Bezavale]

It's.

[Patrick Hines]

Why?

[Jillian Bezavale]

Because they say that one of the cops recorded it. This is absolute fucking nonsense. I don't know what that fucking lady, what her problem is, but she wasn't a security at the house of booze. And I don't know what her fucking problem was, but she certainly had no right to come to my fucking castle, roll her fucking head open. What the fuck is wrong with you people?

[Patrick Hines]

He said, she certainly had no right to come to my fucking castle and blow her fucking head open.

[Jillian Bezavale]

It's the first time he refers to his own house as a castle and,

[Patrick Hines]

like, discusses Lana in this horrifying way.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Also just so obvious. It's like that guy from the Ellen Greenberg case being like, I was at the gym and I broke down the door and then I came in and now. You know what I mean? It's like when you're giving the alibi on at the crime scene, we know you did it.

[Patrick Hines]

Why are you screaming at me? And not screaming about this horrible. Like, they had to tase him.

[Jillian Bezavale]

No, they say they literally had to tase him and use a ballistic shield to knock.

[Patrick Hines]

That's the thing the SWAT team has. Yeah.

[Jillian Bezavale]

The guy weighs 86 pounds.

[Patrick Hines]

It's like a ballistic shield soaking wet.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So Phil Spector is saying that this is a suicide, that Lana Clarkson killed herself.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And is there evidence that points to this? That's the big question. And Rich says, kinda, yeah, at first

[Jillian Bezavale]

glance, kinda, I guess because there's a gun on the floor and she's been shot in the mouth.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. So before they have any forensics about the direction of the bullet or the shot, they're like, okay, well, I don't. A shot, a gunshot in the mouth? Like, yes, let's. I don't know. Maybe.

[Jillian Bezavale]

I guess except for the fact that Phil Spector's fucking crazy, insane person, and

[Patrick Hines]

he has been forever. So by 2003, like, everyone knows that Phil Spector is a violent nightmare.

[Jillian Bezavale]

But my question there, though is like, did anybody ever call the cops on him? Because it seems like, not.

[Patrick Hines]

I. I mean, he's like a very powerful man in Hollywood, so probably not.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Now, Mark tells us something that I actually really appreciated.

[Patrick Hines]

I do, too.

[Medical Examiner/Expert]

We treat all death investigations, on the surface at first glance, as if they're murdered. We send homicide cops out to every suicide that occurs in the jurisdiction of the Los Angeles County Sheriff. Every accidental death, with the exception of a traffic collision, we send a homicide cop out there.

[Patrick Hines]

Even accidental deaths. Except maybe a car accident. Even then a homicide cop, but that's the default. And I don't know why that's not universal.

[Jillian Bezavale]

I couldn't agree more.

[Patrick Hines]

So Detective Rich is like, who is this Phil Spector guy? Like, he has no idea. But as he's looking around, he's like, like, oh, he's seeing the awards, he's seeing the photos with the Beatles, with Tina Turner, Elvis Presley, the gold records.

[Jillian Bezavale]

This guy.

[Patrick Hines]

Jesus. And so Mark Lilienfeld or whatever gets the case. The Nazi.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And he gets all the big cases because he's super seasoned and like. But also problematic. And we're not here for that part, I guess.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yeah. Mark is the one that tells us the house was, like, in horrible shape.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, it was, like, poorly lit, he says, which is the least of our worries.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Can we get to the lighting later?

[Patrick Hines]

Really care about the lighting?

[Jillian Bezavale]

Dealing with the lighting. Hiding right now. But it really, like, if you're gonna live in a 25,000 square foot mansion,

[Patrick Hines]

it's like he was collecting rich, expensive things but didn't know where to put them. They were just like, there. And so there's didn't have, like, cleaning people. No, it's like mice, rats, roaches, chandeliers everywhere, Expensive art, a full, like, suit of armor.

[Narrator/Expert]

There was everything in that house. I mean, literally, it like he was a multimillionaire pack rat. You're like, you know, I know I need to make sure that, that I don't miss something. But you're also like, Spector probably hasn't been in this room for six years.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Denise walks in the room, he's like, phil Spector hasn't been in this room for years.

[Patrick Hines]

For years. Like, it's a mess. It's disgusting. But, like, more than anything, the vibes are fucking putrid.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, everyone's like, why is why? Like, how do you have photos with Paul McCartney?

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And the vibes are disgusting, and I want to rip my skin off and take a shower.

[Jillian Bezavale]

It really does feel like you're going to visit, like, your old, decrepit grandpa who, like, can't take care of himself.

[Patrick Hines]

But it, like, feels like a funeral home. There's, like, death and violence everywhere.

[Jillian Bezavale]

The rug is, like, bright red.

[Patrick Hines]

Disgusting. Like, filthy. So gross. So they still haven't said Lana Clarkson's name in this episode, which is wild. They just keep saying, like, the woman.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

But they're talking about collecting her DNA, and this is so awful.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Her teeth were everywhere. Like, she was shot in the mouth, and it just like. And I'm saying this. I'm not making a joke. Like, it literally blew her head off.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, her teeth were across the room, which to me is like. Like, I'm. I did not do very well in physics, but it just seems like maybe not a suicide based on little. Little details like this. I'm like, oh, no, this was not.

[Jillian Bezavale]

No. And so Mark says. You know Mark, who we. We hate now. I. He was like, my fuzzy old grandpa. Now I have to hate the guy.

[Patrick Hines]

Sorry.

[Jillian Bezavale]

I used purple. Purple is the. Like, I love this guy color.

[Patrick Hines]

Really.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yeah. I know. I'm gonna have to change it all to red. I hate the. Don't worry.

[Patrick Hines]

That's not. Those notes are not gonna be made public, girl.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Okay.

[Patrick Hines]

You never know. That is just for this moment.

[Jillian Bezavale]

I never know.

[Patrick Hines]

I know.

[Jillian Bezavale]

But Mark is here to say, like,

[Narrator/Expert]

we're there to speak for the dead, and they leave us clues with physical evidence. All of us knew that when you're standing over a dead person, that's an awesome responsibility to be given, and you have to take it seriously.

[Jillian Bezavale]

We do this job to speak for the dead, and they really are taking it seriously. Like, we've got to collect all this evidence and, like, really get to the bottom of what happened here.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. So they're covering the entire haunted mansion, and they want to, like, make sure that they investigate the crime scene as much as possible before releasing it. I'm like, that should be standard, but. Okay, well.

[Jillian Bezavale]

And they say that they usually hold a crime scene for 78 hours, but for this one, they held it for over a day.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bezavale]

And the crime scene really is a very small area of that.

[Patrick Hines]

It is. It's, like, right in the foyer area.

[Jillian Bezavale]

But it's like, that house is so filthy.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bezavale]

It must have been really hard to collect evidence. Like, that house is so filthy.

[Patrick Hines]

And what if the Fight started elsewhere.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And it ended there. Like they don't know,

[Jillian Bezavale]

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[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And hers goes beyond medication by offering access to ongoing care.

[Jillian Bezavale]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Jillian Bezavale]

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[Patrick Hines]

And they have options starting at just $69 a month with a 10 month plan when paid upfront in full. And hers provides access to options that fit your goals and your budget.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yeah. Because that stuff can be expensive otherwise. Fam.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And you know what? Your time is super valuable too. We can do this 100% online.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Oh, I love hers.

[Patrick Hines]

Just saying.

[Jillian Bezavale]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Jillian Bezavale]

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[Patrick Hines]

Actual price depends on product and plan purchased. Here's the evidence that they have. They have a.38 caliber gun next to Lana's body. It was loaded and there was what they say, one spent cartridge in the cylinder of the gun. And here's a very weird thing. You know when you have like a deadbolt on a door, the thing that you turn to make the lock turn, that piece was off the lock on the back of the door and like on the floor.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So the thing that you used to get in or out of a place to unlock and leave was like rendering the lock useless. So you're locked in.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Right. And they're sort of like, never seen

[Patrick Hines]

that before and like, did it fly off in some kind of like physical altercation? Like, why is that part of the. Like, how do you even get that part off?

[Jillian Bezavale]

Right? And fam, we promise we will tell you, right?

[Patrick Hines]

So they also find the holster that goes with the gun that was in a drawer. And it clearly fits the murder weapon.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yeah, Meaning, like, she didn't bring a gun to the scene. Like it was his gun.

[Patrick Hines]

It was his gun.

[Jillian Bezavale]

So it's 5pm, it's 12 hours later. The coroner, now they tell us the identity of the victim is Lana Clarkson.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. She's an actress and model in la. And her mom Donna is here and her sister Fawn are both here.

[Jillian Bezavale]

And there's this weird thing where, like, her sister's watching the news and somebody calls his sister to say, I think something is happening with Lana. We don't know why this. Why the friend knows that.

[Patrick Hines]

Right?

[Jillian Bezavale]

And the cops are trying to get in touch with the mom, and the mom is calling the cops for the same reason. It's like this. This kind of weird thing that happened, right?

[Patrick Hines]

That, like, as they're trying to get in touch with each other, they're both calling each other.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yeah. They finally get the mom, Donna, on the phone. She thinks they're calling her back. They have no idea that she's called.

[Patrick Hines]

Right, Right.

[Lana Clarkson's Family Member/Friend]

He told me Lana's address on the canal. He says, well, can we meet you there? And then all of a sudden, the detectives pulled in, her sister pulled in, and brother. We all quietly walked around to the front of the cottage, and we went inside, and Detective Fournier just kind of looked down at the floor and he said it was.

[Patrick Hines]

It was Lana.

[Jillian Bezavale]

And the mom and the sister show up, just, like, knowing they're about to get the worst news of their lives, Right?

[Patrick Hines]

And so Lana lives in the canals in Venice, which is like a very cool walk. Through the canals, no? Oh, it's kind of cool. It's just a little neighborhood, but it's, like, in the canals, like the Venice canals. Next time you're in la, like, take a, like a little bit of an afternoon trip there. It's kind of cool to walk around. I don't know, maybe locals in LA are like, it's a stupid, dumb place,

[Jillian Bezavale]

but if you like it, then it's great.

[Patrick Hines]

It's just a cool. I don't know, one time my friend and I walked around the canals and, like, had a nice chat. It was nice.

[Jillian Bezavale]

That's so fun. Yeah, it's cool. That's great. And her little house is like a little bungalow.

[Patrick Hines]

It's like, it's very cool. So unless it's not. Or whatever. Who cares?

[Jillian Bezavale]

You can like it even if other people don't.

[Patrick Hines]

I had a nice chat with my friend Risa there. We're in a new face today.

[Jillian Bezavale]

We're all a little thrown off.

[Patrick Hines]

So everyone is at Lana's bungalow. Or cottage.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Donna, her mother, Fawn, her sister, her brother, and the cops. And all the cops here are like, just in case we can't hit this point home enough. This is absolutely the worst part of the job. Notifying the families.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yeah. And they promised they were going to, like, they're going to get to the bottom of this. But now we learn about Lana and she was just like, I would have been obsessed with her when I was a kid if I had known about her.

[Lana Clarkson's Family Member/Friend]

Lana did a lot of TV shows in the 80s. She was in the Barbarian Queen movies.

[Narrator/Expert]

Movies.

[Jillian Bezavale]

She did a ton of TV shows in the 80s. I'm like, we see her in a scene of something with the Hoff. Is it Baywatch?

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, maybe.

[Jillian Bezavale]

She would have been perfect for Baywatch.

[Patrick Hines]

They said that she starred in the Barbarian Queen movies. She was just like.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Because she was six feet tall and gorgeous.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, tall and blonde.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

But she was, like, working. She was hustling. She was doing her thing. Like, she was out there in la, like, making it, which is possible.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Amazing. But then she fractures both of her wrists in a fall, and it's like a year. That.

[Patrick Hines]

That is awful, I have to say. Like, so they say it was a big setback for her. She had to have pins put in both of her wrists. I have to tell you, like, really, really think about how debilitating that would be.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Oh, yeah. It would affect. Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Every. We couldn't do this single thing in your life, big and small.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Anything. Think about something you want to do. You're almost.

[Jillian Bezavale]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

You know what I mean.

[Jillian Bezavale]

And you need people to help you do it. Bathe, eat.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm just saying, like, for a year of recovery, that's.

[Jillian Bezavale]

The look on your face was like, don't you ever try to fucking bathe me, bitch.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, well, that. But it's just so. Of course, it set her back. And it must be so depressing and frustrating more than anything.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yes. Especially, like, when you're doing so well.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. It's a total. You're just, like, running into a brick wall. Like, you have the momentum and then stop. But her family does make a point

[Lana Clarkson's Family Member/Friend]

to say, in the entertainment industry, everybody socializes after hours. I'm not surprised. Lana was always networking with different people. She had a lot going on Lana

[Patrick Hines]

was a working actor, always out, always networking. This was not surprising to them at all that she would have been in his orbit and also not have told them about it. Yeah, like, that was. It was not weird to them. And I get it.

[Jillian Bezavale]

And so now we learn Spectre is arrested. He asked for an attorney. He doesn't make any kind of statement. The cops can't question him. He posts million dollars bail like it's nothing. Nothing to him.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, because he stole all the money from his black artists. But we'll talk about that later.

[Jillian Bezavale]

And the DA also refuses to file the case until they've, like, thoroughly investigated. We'll get more into that. Or we can talk about it now if you want.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, just like, quickly. They only have one shot. This guy is super rich and super famous, and they don't want to screw it.

[Jillian Bezavale]

And they've been burned before. And we'll talk about girl.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. So Adriana d' Souza is the. The chauffeur who made the call. He's the one and only witness.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yeah, this poor guy.

[Patrick Hines]

And the cops speak to him and they film it like we're watching it, and they're just, like, walking around the house. And this guy is not a happy camper. He's super upset.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Well, he says he. Because he. He'd driven Phil Spector 10 or 15 times before. He says.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bezavale]

And he says that night he went to pick him up. Spector comes out at 7pm sharp, like he always does. They went to dinner and drinks in West Hollywood, and then he was directed to take him to the House of blues at like 1:30 in the morning.

[Patrick Hines]

And so Phil Spector, until about 2:00am which is when Lana Clarkson helps a totally out of his mind, hammered Phil Spector into the car.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And the driver goes back to Phil Spector's mansion, and Phil Spector and Lana Clarkson are both in the backseat.

[Jillian Bezavale]

So, like, something happened where she was helping him to the car and then decided to go with him. And then. So it's 5am Adriano, the chauffeur, is still there, presumably waiting to take Lana home. Lana home? He's parked at the back of the house. He's dozing.

[Detective Rich Tomlin]

At about 5 in the morning, Adriano said he heard a loud popping noise. It was enough to startle him, it was enough for him to get out of his car, when suddenly the back door opened up and he saw Phil Spector wearing a white jacket. And Adriano could see there was blood on his hand.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Spectre's there wearing a white jacket. He sees Blood on Spectre's hands. And Spectre says to Adriano, I think I killed somebody.

[Patrick Hines]

Because Phil Spector's holding the gun.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

The chauffeur looks into the house and says he sees legs. And he says, I saw the lady in the chair with blood all over her face. And that's when Phil Spector says, I think I killed somebody.

[Jillian Bezavale]

And then Adriano is me. The Adriano shaped hole in the door runs for his fucking life.

[Patrick Hines]

This is a white rich, pow, super powerful man in Hollywood. And he's the non white driver. Yet he fucking ran.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Ran as he should. But then he like immediately calls Phil Spector's manager, goes to voicemail. We hear the recording. Like, that's wild. And then he's like. He literally says, come to Phil's house right now. I think he killed a lady. I'm gonna call the cops right now.

[Patrick Hines]

And then he calls 911 and he tells the dispatcher the same exact thing.

[Jillian Bezavale]

And I was thinking, thank God this was five in the morning and the manager was asleep. Because that's not how that would have go. Gone down if he had gotten the manager. No way the manager would have let him call the cops.

[Patrick Hines]

Because I wonder how many times it's happened before. Honestly, I wonder how many phone calls like that she or some other manager has received in the past.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And because this is a big celebrity case, the autopsy is done immediately. And even Detective Rich is like, it was done the next day, which is unheard of.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yeah. He's like, it went all the way up to the Sheriff. Once again, L.A. county has been burned. You know what I mean? Like, you got to get to why. You got to get this one right.

[Patrick Hines]

You guys spoiler oj Right? We'll get to it, but let's talk about the autopsy.

[Narrator/Expert]

Fine.

[Detective Rich Tomlin]

There was one gunshot wound inside of her mouth. Where the gunshot was and how it was lodged. Lana died instantly. The bullet was in a downward angle. If you committed suicide, are you going to point the gun downward? It'd be more like it'd be level or it'd be maybe even an upward angle.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Wouldn't it be level or up? I mean, like, at least that's how we see it in the movie.

[Patrick Hines]

It doesn't make sense for us.

[Jillian Bezavale]

People don't shove the gun down their throat.

[Patrick Hines]

Throats, no. Even if you plan to, it's just. It just pretty obvious that it's not a suicide.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And Dr. Pena is the medical examiner. He's not here.

[Jillian Bezavale]

We've met this son of a bitch before.

[Patrick Hines]

I think so. Right.

[Jillian Bezavale]

I think in the Brittany Murphy case, I was trying to remember where. I mean, he's like the LA corner. So, like, he does all these high

[Patrick Hines]

profile cases, but we're reminded, we're told that the medical examiner is the one who legally determines the cause of death.

[Jillian Bezavale]

I love that they are taking, like a minute to drive that.

[Patrick Hines]

And this guy's super thorough. Like, he's refusing to make a decision until he has all the information. I'm like, again, I know. Should be standard. Yes. But thank you for reminding everyone if they're. If this is their first true crime episode, that that's how it should be.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yeah. And so now the investigators have to rule out suicide. Like, we all know it's not, but they've got to, like, rule it out. So they're asking, was she depressed? Was she in financial distress? They talked to her landlord. She was a model tenant. Sounds like such a fucking awesome lady.

[Patrick Hines]

No financial issues. She was a working actress. She wasn't struggling or needing any money. She had a lot of friends. Like, she had had, like, ups and downs like everybody else. But, like, there were no red flags in her life at all. Like, she was thriving and making it happen for herself in la. I know it's so hard to do. And, like, I just want to, like, mention something too, because you can be a working actor and not be a famous one.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Oh, yeah. That's what most of them are.

[Patrick Hines]

And that's what she was doing. So she was like, making it and hustling and she was excellent at networking, clearly. So, like, she was just, like, out there doing her thing and, like, living

[Jillian Bezavale]

her life and being happy.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. You know, living in the canals. Like, how cool. Okay.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Walking in the canals every single day. She loves. And it's the favorite thing to do.

[Patrick Hines]

She had, like, this cute little bungalow. Like, it's just so, like, oh,

[Jillian Bezavale]

girl, Fabletics is back. Look, I know you spent some time in their site today. Tell me everything.

[Patrick Hines]

I spent some time on their site today and some time in their clothing. All the time.

[Jillian Bezavale]

I know you love it so much.

[Patrick Hines]

It's so cute. Like, it's such a cute, like, workout set, but also for just, like, lounging around. Like, it's comfortable, it's durable.

[Jillian Bezavale]

They've got the scrubs too, which I'm totally obsessed with.

[Patrick Hines]

I know. And let's talk about joining Fabletics as a vip.

[Jillian Bezavale]

You got to do it. And when you go to the website, you'll see why. Like, all the best benefits of being a vip. They're right There for you.

[Patrick Hines]

Let me tell you something. When I signed up as a new VIP with Fabletics, I got 80% off everything. 8 0.

[Jillian Bezavale]

How are you keeping the lights on Fabletics?

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, my goodness. And honestly, the quality is so.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yes, good.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, it just. It's cozy, but it's not too hot that it's stifling. Like, I got the cozy fleece to go sweatpants and the cozy fleece hoodie, and I wear it as a set. And I feel like one of those cute girls who wears, like, sweatsuits now.

[Jillian Bezavale]

What a queen.

[Patrick Hines]

I know. Such a queen. But I'm also not, like, hot. Like, sometimes I'm like, oh, my God, I got to rip this off me. No, but I'm like, cozy, but I'm not overheating needed, but I'm not chilly.

[Jillian Bezavale]

And look, there's something really reassuring about knowing that Fabletics isn't just an online brand floating in the void. They've got over 2 million VIP members and more than 100 retail stores. Fam, it feels like you're joining a community that people genuinely count on.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, I know it sounds too good to be true, but this VIP membership basically pays for itself. Get on it and you look super cute.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yeah. So, fam, Fabletics already has incredible deals and I've got an exclusive offer just for TCL listeners.

[Patrick Hines]

Get 80% off everything when you sign up as a VIP. Just head to Fabletics.com TCO take a quick style quiz, and be sure to select TCO when prompted to unlock your 80% off.

[Jillian Bezavale]

That's Fabletics.com TCO and look, this is me speaking. Don't trust anything that doesn't make you take a quick little quiz. How else are they going to know what you like?

[Patrick Hines]

And it's so easy. And guess what? You have all the right answers.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

Duh, girl.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Our place is back. Look, we have gotten rid of all the other cookware in our house and completely replaced it with our place. Would you like to know why?

[Patrick Hines]

I would love to.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Because of the hidden dangers of traditional nonstick cookware. They're loaded with forever chemicals. I did not know that before our place became an ad on our podcast. We have since gotten rid of everything and we only use our place.

[Patrick Hines]

And also, that's all great. I'm totally on board for that. It's also really pretty.

[Jillian Bezavale]

It is.

[Patrick Hines]

It's really pretty. And it doesn't take up a ton of space. So they have like the Our Place four piece cookware set.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Such a great, simple, easy, healthy, safe way to overhaul your kitchen.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Like you get these high performance space saving pots and pots pans. There are four pieces and you get everything you need.

[Jillian Bezavale]

And the thing is like, I know sometimes it can be like tricky to change to new cookware because you know what you know and you know what you have.

[Patrick Hines]

It's true.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Our place, it's probably the best performing cookware we've had. The nonstick is amazing. I just love it. You know, I'm not much of a cook. Steve does the cooking in our house and I'm always like wowed by our pots and pans. They're beautiful, they're amazing. And they're non toxic.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And just quick shout out to that wonder oven. It's the air fryer slash toaster that I'm in love with. That I point out to everyone when they came over.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Makes a great gift.

[Patrick Hines]

Just saying.

[Jillian Bezavale]

So, fam. Stop cooking with toxic cookware and upgrade to our place today.

[Patrick Hines]

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[Jillian Bezavale]

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[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Did I mention it's pretty?

[Jillian Bezavale]

It is so pretty. So we meet Nilly, Lana's friend, and she tells us that after healing from her wrist injuries, she'd been out of acting for like a year. So it was. Even if you're a working actor like her, if you take a year off, like you're not top of mind. It's not easy to get back in.

[Patrick Hines]

Out of sight, out of mind.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yeah. And she's gotta get a survival job. So she gets an opportunity to be a hostess at the House of Blues.

[Lana Clarkson's Family Member/Friend]

She was excited to be working. She was excited that she had healed and she was healthy. It was a privilege to be asked to be the hostess of the Foundation Room. The Foundation Room at the House of Blues was a very prestigious place. If you were famous and you were in Hollywood, you were visiting the Foundation Room.

[Patrick Hines]

The Foundation Room is a private members only section of the venue. So it's like a who's who of Hollywood.

[Jillian Bezavale]

It's a Neely met George Clooney there one night.

[Patrick Hines]

Exactly. So it's like it makes total sense for her. She's making great money. It's in networking.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Handover. Like it's great, it's fun.

[Jillian Bezavale]

I'm sure it's like a good time

[Patrick Hines]

and I'm sure she's great at it.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So the cops go to the venue and they speak to the manager and the head of security and the server who had to deal with Phil Spector all night long.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Now, this is maybe my favorite story in the whole thing, because Lana meets Specter. He comes in, he wants to get into the foundation room, even though he doesn't.

[Patrick Hines]

He's not a member. He's just like, don't you know who I am?

[Jillian Bezavale]

No reservation.

[Patrick Hines]

Lana goes, no, ma', am, I don't. And you still can't come in.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Because he goes, I'm Phil Spector. And she goes, I'm sorry, Ms. Spector, you can't come in.

[Patrick Hines]

Don't you know who I am? No, ma', am, I don't. Keep it moving.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Because, you know, he was wearing one of those insane wigs, right?

[Patrick Hines]

Or not. Or he just, like, looks. You know, he had the long hair. Whatever. The head of security runs over, and he's like, lana, no, no, no, no. You treat this person like gold, okay? He can say and do whatever he wants. And I'm like, this is how people become nightmares. Fifty years of this kind of treatment.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yes. The one thing I will say is that, like, a music legend in a music establishment, I get. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Right? But he shouldn't have been like, don't you know who I am? I deserve to be here. Without a membership. Fudge you.

[Jillian Bezavale]

And that's the thing.

[Patrick Hines]

So Lana apologizes profusely, gives him this special table.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Well. And now when you're full, Specter. And now this gorgeous woman owes you one. You know, he was just fudgeing horrible.

[Patrick Hines]

And he's hammered. And he keeps saying, like, come to my castle. You have to see the castle. I'm like. With the rats and the roaches. That castle.

[Jillian Bezavale]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

So Lana's friends are here to say. And I love this.

[Lana Clarkson's Family Member/Friend]

Yes, it's easy for people to make big leaps and make assumptions about a woman going to a man's home in the middle of the night. But I knew Lana, and I knew exactly why she went to his house. She didn't go because she was interested in him. Romantic. Romantically. This is Hollywood, Let me tell you, networking is highly valuable.

[Patrick Hines]

Don't you dare make any assumptions, Lana. Because she was all business, and she knows how to operate and protect herself and navigate situations like this.

[Jillian Bezavale]

And also, Nelly's like. And she wasn't fucking afraid of that little pipsqueak. She was 6ft tall. He was 5. 5.

[Patrick Hines]

From a drunk, like, stumbling Phil Spector.

[Medical Examiner/Expert]

Who.

[Patrick Hines]

That's the other thing, too, is the. Like, we kind of get into this. Well, he's like a puny, drunk pipsqueak. There's no way he can hurt me. But that's not true either.

[Jillian Bezavale]

No, that's not true either. And the other thing about Lana, too, that, like, no one even considers, is that she might really just have been wanting to make sure that this guy got home okay.

[Patrick Hines]

Perhaps. Yeah.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Like, it might not even have been networking. It might have just been like, you're so hammered, like, I'm just gonna see you home.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And we don't know. And we don't.

[Jillian Bezavale]

But. But the point is, I think what you're saying and what Nelly is saying is it doesn't matter why she.

[Patrick Hines]

I was just gonna say, like, we know that. It doesn't really matter.

[Jillian Bezavale]

It doesn't matter.

[Patrick Hines]

It doesn't matter at all, actually.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So Rob is here. He's a music producer. And this is fascinating because he says, I'm the one person who knew both Lana Clarkson and Phil Spector. What an unusual, dubious distinction.

[Jillian Bezavale]

And that is the 987 millionth time he said that out loud.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bezavale]

You know what I mean? He seems great, and he seems like he's got cool stories. He also knew Leonard Cohen. He loves to tell people that. He seems fine. But, like, it's just like. That is a weird distinction.

[Patrick Hines]

It's bizarre.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And so let's go back to 1966, and Rob meets Phil Spector for the first time at Gold Star Studio.

[Jillian Bezavale]

All right, we're about to get history, GP we're gonna get some information.

[Patrick Hines]

So Rob was, like, 15 and would sneak in to watch the magic happen. Now, this is where the wall of sound was invented. The wall of sound, like, I hate to say it, is something that Phil Spector pioneered and changed everything.

[Narrator/Expert]

Phil Spector had the wall of sound. And the wall of sound was just about having four guitar players at once and three piano pedal. We did stuff like that. Two drummers, you know, it's, like, completely different. Crazy.

[Patrick Hines]

It was, like, literally, like a wall of sound. And so Be My Baby by the Ronettes is a perfect example.

[Jillian Bezavale]

That's like, be. That's like the Dirty Dancer.

[Patrick Hines]

The night we met, I knew I need, like, River Deep, Mountain High, Tina Turner. Perfect wall of sound. But, like, the Ronettes is absolutely, like, the quintessential wall of sound. And so, like, a Christmas gift for you, which is one of the best Christmas records ever. It's like a Christmas gift for you from Phil Spector, like, in the title, but it's all, like, the Ronettes, the Crystals, Darlene Love, like, famous Christmas songs.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Darlene Love, Baby, I Love Her.

[Patrick Hines]

Who didn't make any money from that. And like.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Oh, really?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, yeah. It's like, it's tragic. But that album, this is the last little like, tidbit. That album came out the day Kennedy was assassinated.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Oh my God.

[Patrick Hines]

So it was a flop when it came out. It is excellent. Like, wow. It is a near perfect Christmas album. It's so good. It's all the old like 60s songs that you love.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

But it came out the day Kennedy was assassinated, so no one gave a. It was a total flop. And now like, like it's legendary.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Oh my God. How do you know all this?

[Patrick Hines]

I took some courses in college about like music and pop culture and like the, like music in the American experience or movies in the American experience and all this. So I just like kind of studied this and I just like love this shit.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Oh, that's so interesting, you know, and

[Patrick Hines]

I like, I came up in radio, so like, I knew. I don't know that. I just like love all this.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Well, that was fascinating. Thank you for sharing.

[Patrick Hines]

I'll tell you a little bit more

[Jillian Bezavale]

later, but now that's how Rob knows Phil Spector. The last time he saw that guy was the year of my birth, 1978.

[Patrick Hines]

But he said that when watching Phil Spector work was watching a little dictator is how he described him.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yes. Oh, and we'll get so much more of that. But this guy Rob met Lana in 1984.

[Narrator/Expert]

So Lana had no idea of Phil's reputation. Phil Spector was a very dangerous character. Unstable and very unpredictable. Had I been there when the palace of Blues closed that night, this would have never happened, you know, I would have never let her go out, leave there with Phil, you know.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Do you know, like, did his reputation precede him? Did people in the world know, like, that's Phil Spector and he's crazy. Crazy.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, I, I'll tell you. He married Veronica from the Ronettes. Ronnie, like, he married her in the late. They started an affair in like 1963 and he, I guess I'll tell it now, he absolutely abused her and like kept her locked in his home.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Oh my God.

[Patrick Hines]

And she finally escaped in like 1972. Cuz he like would hide her shoes so she couldn't leave. I mean, he's disgusting. So he was doing, he was doing violent, horrible and abusing women. His, his whole career basically. And he, she finally like snuck out of the house barefoot and like ran and found a phone and called her mother and so what? And she doesn't get any royalties. Like, these women like the crystals around us, like, they don't have any royalties. And she gave that up to be like, can you just let me go with my life? Because you threatened to hire a hitman. So, like, she gave him her voice.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Her.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, I know he invented the wall of sound, and that's incredible. But, like, it's still her. It's still the women on the record.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Of course.

[Patrick Hines]

You know what I mean? Mean, like, are you fucking kidding me? Be like, Phil Spector is not singing Be My Baby.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Of course.

[Patrick Hines]

Give me a break. So, like, he. I can't imagine that story wasn't known. You know what I mean?

[Jillian Bezavale]

God, that is crazy.

[Patrick Hines]

So I, I think people, people knew. Absolutely know.

[Jillian Bezavale]

So back with Rich, the detective, he's saying that they all knew that the case was going to be highly scrutinized, right? And so the DNA comes back from Spectre's jacket, and there, there's also DNA on a diaper found in the bathroom. This was like one of the grossest things I've ever heard that I. Apparently it's like a known thing that if you have a gun, you wrap it like in a cloth diaper.

[Patrick Hines]

I didn't know that.

[Jillian Bezavale]

I didn't know that either. But like, we're learning that there's, you know, Lana's blood on both of them, obviously, and that they're saying the blood got on the diaper because it was used to wipe the blood off the gun, which would obviously show that Lana could not have done that 100%.

[Patrick Hines]

So it's September 22, 2003, seven months after the murder, and the medical examiner rules that this was a homicide. Now the DA is not filing charges right away.

[Narrator/Expert]

There was a. I don't want to say paranoia, but the office got burned very badly in the O.J. simpson case. We wanted more time to file criminal charges against Simpson, but there was a lot of pressure from the media and we had to file the case. Well, what happened in the O.J. simpson case? We weren't and ready.

[Patrick Hines]

They're terrified of high profile cases because they screwed up the O.J. simpson case so bad.

[Jillian Bezavale]

And one of these guys is like, you can't just prosecute the guy that produced You've Lost My Loving Feeling. My granddaughter loves that song.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, we certainly can and we will.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

And like, it's not that they're not filing at all. They're just filing immediately because they learned

[Jillian Bezavale]

from OJ and the thing about the OJ thing, that's so enraging is that the reason the DA's office, they're telling us here, filed that case so quickly, is because of the intense pressure from the media. Can't you just ignore that? No. Why?

[Patrick Hines]

I guess they thought they couldn't. I disagree. I think, you know, you should have thought for two seconds because, like, who.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Fudgeing, like, remember, was like, Gil Garcetti was the. Was like the. Whatever his position was. He was like the head prosecutor guy. So what you're really saying when you're. You're. You're caving to pressure from the media is that somebody who's got to get reelected is afraid they won't.

[Patrick Hines]

And I think also part of it is public opinion and tainting jurors. I think that's part of it where it's like, let's just, like, try to control the narrative as much as possible and not letting. Because, like, as we see here, Phil Spector goes on television and does all interviews, and he controls the narrative.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So I think maybe part of that argument. I don't know. I'm just guessing.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Well, it's also just. I mean, obviously we see this, like, systemically throughout, but, like, in Los Angeles, the prosecutor's office is no match for the money of OJ Simpson. No match for the money of Phil Spector. You know what I mean? Like, there's gotta be a way to equalize the system where, like, the. The. The defense can't just get 20. We're gonna see Henry Lee and fucking Werner like, calling, throwing everything at the book. And, like, there's. It's just a completely unfair system.

[Patrick Hines]

And what is super unfair is that Phil Spector is giving interviews, saying Lana Clarkson kissed the gun, talking shit about Lana, controlling the narrative. And I'm like, first of all, how dare all of you who published anything he said? But why isn't there a gag? Like, why is he allowed to do that, right? When there's an open investigation about this murder? I just can't believe that that's allowed.

[Jillian Bezavale]

No, I agree. For me, as I was watching this, I'm like, well, he just looks. Looks crazy, right?

[Patrick Hines]

But, like, you never know, because at

[Jillian Bezavale]

the end of the day, his defense is, she killed herself. So if he can, like, be crazy, but also make her look crazy, and

[Patrick Hines]

you know how many people give a shit about, you've lost that love and feeling or whatever? Like, they're just sort of reminding everyone who he is and what he's done and your favorite song and all of this stuff?

[Jillian Bezavale]

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[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And so here's the thing. Chime isn't just another banking app.

[Jillian Bezavale]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Jillian Bezavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

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[Jillian Bezavale]

And listen, you can forget about those overdraft fees, minimum balance fees and monthly fees like the money you save right then and there.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And Chime turns everyday spending into real rewards and progress.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yes. And look, let me just say with the Chime card real quick, it's a new way to build credit history with your own money and get rewarded every single day.

[Patrick Hines]

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[Jillian Bezavale]

You got to build that credit. If this had been around in my 20s, it would have been a whole different decade for me.

[Patrick Hines]

Agree.

[Jillian Bezavale]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Jillian Bezavale]

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[Patrick Hines]

I was kind of like, oh, we're doing this. That's great. I'll say it again. I got you. Chime is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services. A secured Chime Visa credit card and my pay line of credit provided by the Bancor Bank NA or Stride Bank NA. MyPay eligibility requirements apply and credit limit ranges $20 to $500. Optional services and products may have fees or charges. See chime.com feesinfo advertised annual percentage yield with Chime+status only. Otherwise 1.00% APY applies. No min balance required. Chime card on time. Payment history may have a positive impact on your credit score. Results may vary. See chime.com for details and a applicable terms. So let's talk a little bit about this piece of shit. Yeah. Someone's like, yeah, he had a quote, long sordid history of waving guns around. Thanks.

[Jillian Bezavale]

So this is another thing too. Like, I don't know, because we learned that like, he's pulling guns on the Ramones, fires a gun into the ceiling when recording with John Lennon.

[Patrick Hines]

Debbie Harry.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Really? Leonard Cohen has a story where like,

[Narrator/Expert]

they're getting ready to rap a music recording session. Phil Spector says to Leonard Cohen, go out and put a vocal on this, will you? And Leonard says to Phil, he says, well, you know what, man? I'm tired. And he said, I could do it tomorrow. And then Phil gets the gun out, points it at Leonard and says, you're gonna go sing this now?

[Jillian Bezavale]

Phil Spector pulls a gun on him and forces him back into the studio. But, like, is it the responsibility of these artists to, like, do something about that?

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, I think by the time. Look, Phil Spector made such a name for him himself with the Ronettes and that. That wall of sound and that era that I think people felt like, if this is what we have to do to get. I'm not saying it's right.

[Jillian Bezavale]

I'm saying I know, and. But I also think that, like, I've lived a long life now. Like, I remember just a comparison. I remember there was a time when I worked in the restaurant industry. If you called out sick, you got punished on the schedule for two weeks. If you took a vacation, you got punished on the schedule. Like, you. Like, it was the restaurant manager's restaurant and you had. No, it is not like that now. No, they get paid time get as they absolutely should. So I'm just. My point in saying all that is that, like, the world is different now. Powerful people used to get away, like, the Harvey Weinstein of the world used to get away with the shit that they did, because that was the world as we knew it. And the world has really changed. So, like, looking at it from a 20, 26 lens of, like, you're just going to let him pull a gun on John Lennon? That sounds crazy.

[Patrick Hines]

And, like, that was all part of the world was. That was like, part of working with Phil Spector. Yeah.

[Jillian Bezavale]

By the way, I fully support waiters, like, never having to work and getting paid. You know what I mean? I want to be on the record.

[Patrick Hines]

But he would also lock people in his house, both men and women, and

[Detective Rich Tomlin]

how he would keep them in. Remember the deadbolt lock that was found on the floor? He would remove the lock, and now they're stuck.

[Defense Expert/Commentator]

It was another opportunity for him to control others, and that was what set him apart.

[Detective Rich Tomlin]

He was manic, if you will, about control.

[Patrick Hines]

That's why the deadbolt thing was on the floor, because he would remove the lock.

[Jillian Bezavale]

So it was like a trick thing that he made where he could lock the deadbolt and then remove the deadbolt and hold onto it. And, like, the other thing that we learned about him here too, is that, like, the story is, if you're hanging out with Phil Spector and you're ready to go home, but he's not ready for you to go home, he would lock the door, abandon you in that foyer, and go off and be by himself in his castle for a couple of hours.

[Patrick Hines]

So you're sitting, like, totally unsure of what's going to happen. Where is he going to pop out from next?

[Jillian Bezavale]

So it's like, no, I love, like, the ghoul popping out from the kitchen.

[Patrick Hines]

Imagine you're like, what the. I don't know this house. I've never been been here. It's disgusting. It's terrifying. Who knows where he is? He knows the house. I don't.

[Jillian Bezavale]

So it's this crazy thing of, like, it's not even that he wants to hang out with you longer, he just wants you to be his property.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, well, imagine being married to him, right as Veronica. She went by Ronnie. But, like, that was all happening in the 60s. She escaped in 72. Like, people knew.

[Jillian Bezavale]

It's just crazy.

[Patrick Hines]

People knew. I can't believe that, like, so many of these artists, especially the black artists, like, didn't make money from their legendary, iconic records.

[Jillian Bezavale]

And there's nothing we can do about that now.

[Patrick Hines]

I honestly, like, I was gonna save this at the end, but I guess I'll say it now. Like, whoever owns those masters should do the fucking right thing. And I know a lot of people, like, Ronnie is. She died in 2022. Like, I know a lot of people are no longer with us, but, like, do the right thing. Especially when the person is Phil Spector and, like, like, cheated people out of, like, Ronnie was scared for her life, and she was like, fine, you can have. Fine, I won't take royalties. Fine.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And then they had to fight it. It's like, crazy.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Well, so the DA's are saying that, like, look, we've all heard the rumors, but we need witnesses. And the good news is there plenty.

[Patrick Hines]

And, like, so many stories from these women. He would demand sex, they'd say no. Then he wouldn't let them leave. He'd pull a gun on them.

[Narrator/Expert]

That's an mo. And it means that this is a thing that he does that he has done. And the reason that's important is because if you never. If you didn't find anyone that ever said this happened before, that would probably be a pretty big defense point. Say, that's absurd to think that my client was. Would do that. Right. These women were willing to Testify that they were in fear of their lives, that they thought he was going to

[Patrick Hines]

kill them because he was about this power, fear and control. And so many women have very similar stories. The prosecutors are like, okay, we have a very good idea of what he did to Lana Clarkson.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yeah. So they're saying that, like, based on what these other people have been through, the idea is he didn't want her to leave. He left her in the foyer for an hour or locked her in. Like that's why that thing was on the floor. Of course she was dozing off for whatever reason. We'll never know. He grabs the gun, shoved it in her mouth while she was, like, still asleep. She woke up panicked and he shot her.

[Patrick Hines]

Cuz she said no.

[Jillian Bezavale]

That is insane.

[Patrick Hines]

Yep. So it's November 20, 2003, nine months after Lana's murder, and Phil Spector is finally charged with murder. And he knows he's caught. Right. And he doesn't want to spend a single day in prison. Nobody does. But this is when he starts all the tricks of delaying and hiring lawyers and firing them or they'd quit. Did you happen to see that? We get like on screen, texts of a timeline. Did you see the first lawyer he fired was.

[Jillian Bezavale]

What's his name?

[Patrick Hines]

Robert Shapiro.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Robert Shapiro, yeah. Like he started with OJ's guy.

[Patrick Hines]

He started, yeah. But every time he pulls some shit, he's out on bail.

[Narrator/Expert]

Phil Spector is on bail, Meaning he is out. He had gotten married. As long as he can stretch this case out, he's a free man.

[Patrick Hines]

The dude gets married to some desperate, fame hungry idiot.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

An aspiring pop star said in air quotes, rochelle Short.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yeah. And we'll get back to her in a second.

[Patrick Hines]

And guess where they got married?

[Jillian Bezavale]

Where?

[Patrick Hines]

The same foyer where Lana Clarkson was murdered.

[Jillian Bezavale]

No.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes. She's a idiot.

[Jillian Bezavale]

That is the most ghoulish thing I've heard in this whole.

[Patrick Hines]

And she knew he's awaiting trial and she marries him.

[Jillian Bezavale]

In the foyer.

[Patrick Hines]

In the foyer.

[Jillian Bezavale]

So it's April 25, 2007. It's four years after Lana's death. He's now coming to court. And these insane wigs.

[Patrick Hines]

There's that famous picture of him with the big, like, curly. The thing is ridiculous.

[Jillian Bezavale]

He's so insane, it all actually looks like his normal hair. I'm like, oh, yeah, that makes sense.

[Patrick Hines]

It does. I don't know how you can be a juror and not hate him on sight. That I know. Like, to me, that's like, you're not taking any of this seriously at All.

[Jillian Bezavale]

I think it just. Look, I was thinking about this today. I'm crazy glad that the. That professional juror is not a real job, because I wouldn't be doing this.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bezavale]

I would have gone into being a professional juror.

[Patrick Hines]

And it's so. We've talked about this before. It's so like, what is it, right? Is it ripe or rife for corruption?

[Jillian Bezavale]

Rife. I think it's rife.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay. I think it could be corrupted very easily. I get all that. But there are times where you just, like, you want to scream at some of these people.

[Jillian Bezavale]

I was only on a jury one time. I took it so seriously. I loved being on a jury.

[Patrick Hines]

Jury.

[Jillian Bezavale]

I would be good at it. I would be totally fair. Yeah. And then we learned, too, that, like, these defense attorneys are like, cornering Mark, who we now hate in the bathroom, telling him that they're going to, like, kick his ass on the stand. And this is where I'm like, look at fuzzy old grandpa, who I now know is a Nazi, who's like, I'm a little guy.

[Medical Examiner/Expert]

You think I haven't had my ass kicked before? What are you blind? Look at his face. Look at me, man. I built a career getting my ass kicked. And I'm not the world's greatest testifier, but I can tell the truth, which is pretty goddamn easy to do.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Really? Look at my face. You think I've spent my ass getting kicked by guys meaner than you my whole life? Yeah, I thought he was adorable.

[Patrick Hines]

Sorry. But the thing is, like, the LA prosecutor's office hadn't won a high profile case in 40 years. This is a really big deal. And Alan Jackson is here to say, look, I'm not trying the guy who changed music forever. I'm trying the sadistic murderer.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Alan Jackson had to retake that shot because I swear to God, he was like, look, do I love Phil Spector? Am I Phil Spector's biggest fan? Would I have gone to Phil Spector's? Yes. Yes to all of those. But we're not prostitute. Like, the look of admiration he has for Phil Spector in his eyes as he's saying that. It's wild. It's just like someday some insane woman in a suburb of Boston is going to have 15 too many vodka sodas at a bar with her cop husband. And boy, are you going to get

[Patrick Hines]

famous during a fucking blizzard.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Got behind the.

[Jillian Bezavale]

The wheel. Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Whatever you think about her, I know choices were made.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Choices were made.

[Patrick Hines]

They weren't great.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So they had 20 incidents, but they're witnesses. Well, they had 20 women.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yeah, they had 20 women being like, let me testify. The judge was like, you get five.

[Patrick Hines]

And Alan Jackson was fine. Yeah, no problem. So all five got up there and told stories about how awful he was. The. The assaults. He wouldn't let them leave. Holding them at gunpoint, hitting them. And then the. The shots to the ego come where it's like he looked like Elmer Fudd.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Oh, my God. That was my favorite moment.

[Patrick Hines]

His gun was bigger than he was.

[Jillian Bezavale]

I mean, it cuts to Spectre sitting in his little chair, and you can see how tiny he looks.

[Patrick Hines]

He's a frail little shell of a person because he sucks.

[Jillian Bezavale]

He looks like Robert Durst.

[Patrick Hines]

He's a demon.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Interchangeable. To me, they look exactly the same.

[Patrick Hines]

Sometimes you're inside shows on your outside.

[Jillian Bezavale]

100%.

[Patrick Hines]

Case in point.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Yep.

[Jillian Bezavale]

He's. He's the guy.

[Patrick Hines]

But then we hear it in this asshole's own words. He's threatening a woman. He left her some insane message.

[Jillian Bezavale]

And he says, be very careful what

[Patrick Hines]

you say to me, because there's nothing you say to me.

[Narrator/Expert]

It's worth your life.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Goodbye, Dorothy.

[Patrick Hines]

Be very careful what you say to me, because nothing you say to me is worth your life. Goodbye, Dorothy.

[Jillian Bezavale]

And the thing about it is these powerful fucking people who are accountable to nobody. Yeah. Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bezavale]

It's horrible.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, it's awful. It's awful. And so Mark, the homicide detective slash Nazi, hates testifying.

[Jillian Bezavale]

He does. He's not good at it. He just wants to do the job. Job.

[Patrick Hines]

He even hates sitting here in this documentary.

[Jillian Bezavale]

He says, it's breaking my balls to come here and speak to you.

[Patrick Hines]

And here's his thing about testifying. You listen to the question, you answer the question, and you shut the hell up.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

He did not follow his own advice.

[Jillian Bezavale]

I don't think I'd be good. I'd be a great juror. I don't think I'd be a good witness because I think that I'd want to over. I'd want to over answer. I would need several hours of prep.

[Patrick Hines]

I talked about this, I think, a couple times. I did a mock trial for Columbia Law School, like, study the case and then sit there. It's very frustrating because. Because the person who I was, I was accusing someone of sexual harassment. And so I was on the stand as the witness, like, explaining what this. My boss was saying to me. So when his lawyer was questioning me, my, like, student lawyer was like, she's super tough. She's gonna try to trip you up. And you're not gonna be able to answer anything. And it was true. Like, she would ask me a question and I would be telling the truth in the, the like case file that I got of my experience, my character's experience or whatever. And she would stop me, like, that's not what I asked. That's not. It's very, very frustrating if you're. And not.

[Jillian Bezavale]

That is too stressful as like an acting exercise. I wouldn't be able to sleep the night before.

[Patrick Hines]

And my law student was awesome. But like, we didn't prep the way you would for a real trial. It was like one 30 minute meeting I had with her. So normally I'd probably have more prep if I was a real person doing that real thing.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

But it is, it does feel very like. But what I'm saying is the truth. And they try to like get you to say the one specific thing that's gonna sound good for them. It's wild. It's very wild. So.

[Jillian Bezavale]

But it's like, Mark, look, I know we hate you, but I see you. Like, I would be bad at testifying to you. And he fucks up in a big way on this.

[Patrick Hines]

So on the stand, Mark Lillefeld, bless

[Defense Expert/Commentator]

his heart, was on the witness stand. During direct examination, he's asked to describe something about Lana and he slips and says her paw instead of her hand.

[Patrick Hines]

He calls Lana's hand a paw, like an animal paw. And I thought of speaking of Catherine Ohara in Home Alone. The Santa's like, hold out your little paw there.

[Jillian Bezavale]

And he's like, sorry.

[Patrick Hines]

But anyway, everyone's horrified. It's a horrifying thing to say. A lot of his mother's in the room.

[Jillian Bezavale]

It's really, really bad. But then we get like, I thought this was going to be such a fun moment.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, because I. First of all, he quickly corrected himself. The damage was done. The whole courtroom was like, her what?

[Jillian Bezavale]

He feels bad to this day.

[Patrick Hines]

To this day. As I get it. I would too. But like, I cannot believe for the. What we're going to be talking about for the next 10 minutes. I know the documentary really needed extra time, I guess in this episode.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Well, I thought you were going to love it because he's like, look, I just a nice fuzzy man who loves dogs.

[Patrick Hines]

I love. And Alan Jackson's like, this man is a canine lover. Okay. And we see this absolutely adorable dog.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

This like kind of derpy, like big faced, maybe German shepherd of. Or Akita or some kind of mix. He goes, I. This guy goes, I was nicknamed after A dog.

[Jillian Bezavale]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

I dream about dogs. I have some dog issues.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Now, listen, when he said I dream about dogs, I was like, this is the most, like, we've never had a moment like this in one of these documentaries.

[Patrick Hines]

Photo of that dog.

[Jillian Bezavale]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

So cute. I cannot stand it.

[Jillian Bezavale]

It really is.

[Patrick Hines]

And Aaron, when you post it, you're gonna have to put the garbage can over the guy.

[Jillian Bezavale]

I thought Mark was just gonna be a fun. A fun character. We do callbacks to for weeks to come.

[Patrick Hines]

No, the dog weekend.

[Jillian Bezavale]

The dog. We can.

[Patrick Hines]

The nameless dog. Yeah, but he's not faceless. Adorable face. Oh, my God, I wanna squeeze that face so bad. It probably smells so good. And it's so warm.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Well, now we cut to, like, all of the, quote, experts that the defense called. You look at, like, any big case over the last, like 20 years, they just hand picked all.

[Patrick Hines]

And they also, of course, because this train is never late, completely come for Lana and attack her.

[Defense Expert/Commentator]

We knew that the defense was going to come after Lana. They had to. They had to create this Persona of a person who was deeply depressed and, you know, had one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel and she just had nothing to live for.

[Patrick Hines]

So just like saying how unhinged she was at making this all her fault. That idiot fucking star fucker wife of his.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Kill.

[Patrick Hines]

Spector's wife is a laughing.

[Jillian Bezavale]

How does that. How does anybody think that plays well to the jury?

[Patrick Hines]

How is she not hauled out of that room? How dare you.

[Jillian Bezavale]

You would think that that would have won the case for the prosecution right there.

[Patrick Hines]

I agree. And if I were one of Lana's family, I'd say, get her out of here.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

If she can't handle it and be respectful, get her out of here. The judge should have called it right then and said, we're taking a recess until you can compose yourself. Get yourself out of my fucking courtroom. It's bananas to be laughing like, like mocking her, dehumanizing her, like she was a joke to them. She is not a joke. She was a successful person in Los Angeles.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Listening to her mother and sister talk about being in that courtroom and what they had to go through.

[Patrick Hines]

Disgusting.

[Jillian Bezavale]

So it's 2007, it's five months into the trial. The jury gets the case. Alan Jackson's pretty confident. You know, he says, and I quote, this shouldn't be that difficult. The jurors have all the evidence they need.

[Patrick Hines]

He's confident on day one. But the days keep going by. And it's day four and this is

[Jillian Bezavale]

his first big trial. And, like, they've already said to us, like, if this goes down, he's going

[Patrick Hines]

down, and LA's got to win this. 40 years. They really fucked up, O.J.

[Jillian Bezavale]

they need a win here.

[Patrick Hines]

So Alan Jackson's a wreck. And he's like, why is it. Why is it day nine?

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, this is. Is the longest moment of my life. What is going on?

[Jillian Bezavale]

And, like, we meet one of the jurors, we meet Richard, and he's just

[Narrator/Expert]

saying, like, there was four guilty, five not guilty, four undecided. It's almost like a second trial that happened during deliberations. Some of us in the jury room had to, like, relitigate for the jurors that either didn't get it or actually fell for the. For the misinformation that the experts on the. The defense side were giving.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Richard is here to say, I cannot believe how stupid these other jurors. Yeah, he's like, I had to relitigate this in the jury room. Like, from the beginning.

[Patrick Hines]

He said, the first vote was four guilty, five not guilty for undecided. Were you asleep when those five women were on the stand?

[Jillian Bezavale]

And, like, we do get somebody saying to us at some point, the thing about celebrity trials is that there's a lot riding on it for the jurors. Like, they love the person's work or they're afraid they're going to get shit from their family. And, like, people who can't put that stuff aside, it. Like, they would never be in my company of professional jurors.

[Patrick Hines]

No, I don't understand, Like, I. I just don't understand how you can sit there and listen to this airtight case and all of these women graciously telling their. Like, generously telling their stories about this abuse. Hearing him threaten someone, seeing him. The wife is laughing.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And you. We have undecideds. We only have four people saying guilty. And the rest of the jurors are either, I don't know, or he didn't do it because I like the Ronettes too much. Like the Ronettes, not him.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yes, yes. And a mistrial is declared. Like, they cannot come to a decision.

[Patrick Hines]

It took four. It took two weeks.

[Jillian Bezavale]

That took my breath away.

[Patrick Hines]

Took two weeks. And Ricardo says this was the hardest and worst experience of his life. It was so difficult having a fight with these people for two weeks and having them not get it.

[Jillian Bezavale]

And he, like, holds a press conference to say as much. I love it.

[Patrick Hines]

And so. So as the. Everyone's leaving the courthouse, like, Alan Jackson does Not want to deal with the press. So he hangs back for a minute. He just like, doesn't want to deal with it.

[Jillian Bezavale]

He's like having a bourbon with Marcia Clark somewhere.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God, Marcia. And by the time he leaves, there's just like one reporter left. And he said, one lone reporter with a microphone and a camera.

[Defense Expert/Commentator]

And as I walked out to my car, she said, Mr. Jackson, do you intend to retry this case? And I stopped in my tracks and I looked, looked at her and I said, I will try this case as many times as it takes to get justice. And I kept walking.

[Patrick Hines]

I stopped in my tracks and I turned to her and I said, and I quote, like, for the good of the nation.

[Jillian Bezavale]

I would like to go to the tape, please. I would like to see what that actually looked like or if it ever happened at all.

[Patrick Hines]

Sure. He said it. He's like, he's quick on his feet. He's got good lines. He said basically the same thing after the first Karen Reed trial.

[Jillian Bezavale]

I was just gonna say, like, on that very day, across the country In Massachusetts, a 14 year old Karen Reed was trying out for the field hockey team.

[Patrick Hines]

Was drinking our very first hot SA. So they get back to work, and about 18 months later, they try it again. And now I do want to say eventually, the first trial, like, I know they declared a mistrial, but eventually 10 jurors would vote guilty, and there were two holdouts. So Alan's like, okay, it's not as bad as I thought. So they don't have to completely start from scratch. Because sometimes we're like, oh, we have to do this totally differently. We have to do this better. We have to hit this point home. Alan's like, I kind of just had a bad, bad batch of jurors.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yeah. And honestly, like, we're at the last minute of this documentary. Like, we don't get much here, but, like, the jury comes back. It's April 13, 2009. The jury comes back in with a verdict. He's guilty.

[Patrick Hines]

And it took seven years after Lana Clarkson was murdered. Seven years.

[Jillian Bezavale]

I know. And also the family had to sit through a second trial. But, like, Alan Jackson is very proud to be the guy that won the first conviction for a celebrity case in 40 years. Yeah, good for you, Alan Jackson.

[Patrick Hines]

And so Phil Spector is hauled away to prison. He gets 19 years to life, and he is dead. Yeah, he died of COVID in January of 2020.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Oh, he died of COVID It's dead and gone.

[Patrick Hines]

And yeah, whoever owns those masters, you should do the right thing.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

That's all.

[Jillian Bezavale]

And, like, you know what? Let's go find one of Lana's movies and, like, have a party.

[Patrick Hines]

Let's do it.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Let's just watch it.

[Patrick Hines]

Let's do it.

[Jillian Bezavale]

All right. Oh, girl. We did Hunting Phil Spectre.

[Patrick Hines]

Homicide, Los Angeles Homicide, Los Angeles. Are there.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Is there lots of these?

[Patrick Hines]

There are a handful. We can definitely, certainly get some on the calendar.

[Jillian Bezavale]

I do like going to LA in the winter. And if this is how I gotta go, this is how I gotta go.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay. Happy to help.

[Jillian Bezavale]

All right.

[Patrick Hines]

We still have, like, how many weeks of winter? What did Phil say? Foxutawney Phil. Not this Phil. I don't give a shit.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Exactly. According to my daughter, we've got six extra weeks.

[Patrick Hines]

Has he. Has Phil ever said an early spring? When was the last time he said that? I feel like he's always saying winter.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yeah, he loves that Phil.

[Patrick Hines]

Phil's got one job, fam.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Go check us out on YouTube. You should. Should check it out today, especially because we have. We're recording in a whole new studio today. I think it looks. It feels very. Like we got a lot of room in here. Go follow us on the discord. And what are we doing next?

[Patrick Hines]

We are doing Manhunt. Joanne Dennehy. This is on Apple TV and Prime. This is crazy and really scary. This is a woman who is a killer. Oh, yeah.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Wow.

[Narrator/Expert]

All right.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, it's pretty rare.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Yeah, it is pretty rare.

[Patrick Hines]

Yep.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Stay tuned for the trailer for that fam. And we love you. Okay.

[Patrick Hines]

We love you. So stay safe out there.

[Narrator/Expert]

All right.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Bye.

[Patrick Hines]

Bye. You feel specter.

[Narrator/Expert]

I'm glad you.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Glad you did.

[Patrick Hines]

Hate you. A mother who murdered three men and attempted to kill two others in Cambridgeshire has become only the third woman in Britain to receive a whole life sentence.

[Jillian Bezavale]

Joanne Dennehy. It's absolutely the right thing that she won't come out of prison. The motivations for her was seeking making that infamy as well as controlling other people and some people being put under a spell. She wanted to be known for murdering

[Narrator/Expert]

for causing these horrific crimes. Joanne Denny is the most dangerous woman

[Medical Examiner/Expert]

British criminal history has ever known.

[Detective Rich Tomlin]

It.