493: Dirty Rotten Scandals: The Dr. Phil Show

Summary

---

True Crime Obsessed – Episode 493

"Dirty Rotten Scandals: The Dr. Phil Show"

Release Date: April 14, 2026
Hosts: Julia Mandavale & Patrick Hines

---

Episode Overview

This episode of True Crime Obsessed takes on the explosive two-part docuseries "Dirty Rotten Scandals: The Dr. Phil Show." Julia and Patrick bring their signature humor, heart, and sass to unpack the show’s revelations, examining Dr. Phil’s rise to fame, allegations of guest exploitation, and the dark connections between the show, treatment facilities, and the broader true crime landscape. The hosts highlight questionable ethics, the cost of chasing ratings, and the continued fallout from “Phil’s” decades on air.

---

Main Discussion Points & Insights

Dr. Phil's Rise & Oprah’s Influence

• Early Days: Dr. Phil (Phil McGraw) is introduced as Oprah’s courtroom consultant during her 1990s "beef scandal."
  • "He had a business called Courtroom Sciences…that’s how they met, because she was dealing with a lawsuit, and then she had him on the show all the time." (Patrick, 05:13)
• From Guest to Fixture: Phil transitions from Oprah guest to having his own eponymous show, quickly attaining single-name celebrity status.
  • “He became like Oprah in that you don’t need a last name. Then when she left, he was on top.” (Guest/Interviewee, 05:28)
• Oprah’s Legacy—good and bad: Oprah "unleashed some terrible people onto the world" (Patrick, 06:06), including Dr. Oz and Dr. Phil, raising questions about her responsibility.
  • "Oprah, you know, owes us some answers. No joke. Guess what? We're never going to get them." (Julia & Patrick, 04:49–04:54)

---

The Show’s Turn Toward Sensationalism

• License Lapses, Tone Changes: After Phil lets his psychologist license lapse in 2006, the show grows increasingly sensational.
  • "After that, you can see yourself. The show became more sensational, more disturbing." (Documentary, 10:30)
  • "It’s so weird when people let their license lapse for the thing they’re known for." (Julia, 10:48)
• Shifting Focus: Instead of genuine help, the show becomes about maximizing ratings through outrageous, traumatic stories and audience judgment.
  • "He’s like a bully and a buffoon and a loud mouth blowhard." (Patrick, 09:26)

---

Exploitation of Vulnerable Guests

Notable Pattern: Guests—often children or young adults in crisis—are “promised help” but separated from their families, pressured to participate, and often further traumatized on camera.

Case Studies

• Emily Jones (2011, 16, pregnant)
  • Family forced to go on for help; Emily begs not to appear but is manipulated onstage.
    • "Emily is telling anybody who will listen that she doesn’t want to do this…People are literally telling her it’s too late." (Julia & Patrick, 23:12–23:27)
  • Public humiliation through aggressive questioning.
    • “Did you get pregnant on purpose?…But what you really mean is you want to keep the baby so your family can raise the baby, right?” (Phil, 29:06–29:26)
• Marcy (2017, sexual assault/incest survivor, 17)
  • Producer grills Marcy about her abuse for four hours.
    • “He wants it said in certain ways…Like, this is how you say what he did to you.” (Julia, 23:51)
  • Threatened with abandonment in LA if she refuses to perform.
    • “If you don’t film this episode tomorrow, we won’t pay for your way home.” (Guest/Interviewee/Marcy, 24:02)
• Angelique (2013, attempted murder survivor)
  • Promised a chance to tell her story but blamed for her trauma and used to promote Phil’s book.
    • “I felt like he was blaming me…and then all of a sudden, he brings out this book. I was used." (Angelique, 33:18)
• Todd Herzog (Addiction, Survivor winner)
  • Left alone with vodka backstage, brought out for a humiliating intervention at his most intoxicated.
    • “Phil says, ‘We’re going to bring Todd out and that’s going to be a bit of a chore. F** you. How dare you.’”* (Patrick, 26:13–26:28)
    • "They mortified him on purpose for ratings and that's what they did to everybody." (Patrick, 27:04)

Behind-the-Scenes Perspective

• “Phil’s” Environment of Fear: Reports of staff intimidation, screaming, and manipulation.
  • “The way Dr. Phil treated the producers created an environment of fear. You don’t want to end up in a room with Dr. Phil being screamed at.” (Jack, 18:17)
• Release Forms: Guests forced to sign extensive waivers, giving up rights to privacy and legal recourse.
  • “Phil does not and will not administer individual, group or medical therapy. And you can’t sue…You give all of your rights away.” (Patrick, 27:12)

---

The Treatment Facility Pipeline & Corruption

Broken Promises and Dangerous Referrals

• Creative Care & Inspirations: Phil’s most-promoted treatment centers are revealed to be negligent, poorly supervised, and connected by questionable personal relationships.
  • “Wendy McIntyre…says, ‘I’m the person who gets called when your child…comes home in a body bag.’” (Julia, 46:54)
• Kickbacks and No Oversight: Phil's son’s bandmate Anthony Haskins runs the aftercare side, with zero clinical experience—he pushes patients into “the Disneyland of treatment” for profit.
  • “He was in a band with Phil’s son. That’s it. Zero experience in therapy or anything else." (Guest/Interviewee & Julia, 45:43–46:02)
• Nightmarish Outcomes:
  • "Wendy learns that in four months there were two deaths at a house with no supervision." (Patrick, 50:41)
  • "Two and a half weeks after DJ gets there, he's found on the side of the highway...walked from Malibu to downtown LA…Nobody called his family." (Julia, 51:24)
• VR "Therapy": Phil sells a virtual reality goggle system as treatment; serves mainly as a vehicle for channeling funds to his businesses.
  • “If you buy my goggles, I’ll talk about you on the show…It’s like a money laundering.” (Patrick, 61:22)

---

Legal Battles, Gag Orders, and Whistleblower Intimidation

• Aggressive Legal Tactics:
  Phil sues staffers and whistleblowers, including long-time producer Leah Rothman, for whistleblowing and copyright infringement over a recording of Phil’s misconduct.
  • "Leah says…she and a whole bunch of people…were put in a single room. Dr. Phil entered and demanded the doors be locked…"(Documentary, 58:28)
  • “The production company sued her for copyright infringement and won. …that’s why people don’t whistleblow.” (Patrick & Julia, 60:16–60:19)
• Journalistic Chilling Effect:
  Boston Globe pulls the plug on further reporting after legal threats.
  • "The Globe told us there was no appetite for a legal fight. And so that was it. The project got shut down." (Documentary, 65:25)

---

Ending & Legacy

• Ongoing Allegations:
  Dr. Phil faces continued allegations: sexual harassment, defamation, workplace abuse, as well as responsibility for the trauma left in his wake.
  • "So many other reports have come out…sexual harassment, defamation, abuse in the workplace…What he did to Britney Spears back in the day." (Patrick, 66:12)
• Show’s End and New Ventures:
  Dr. Phil ceases production in 2023 after 25 years; subsequent business ventures end in bankruptcy and new fraud accusations.
  • "He launches Merit Street Media in 2024 and 2025. It files for bankruptcy…and accused by a production partner of, quote, years-long fraudulent scheme." (Julia, 66:39–66:49)
• Oprah’s Accountability:
  Hosts repeatedly return to the question of Oprah's responsibility and note her silence.
  • "I am so like sick and tired of no accountability for that…Where is she?" (Patrick, 66:55–67:09)

---

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On the Dr. Phil "Help":
  “My traumatic experiences were seen as entertainment.” (Guest, 02:23)
• On Guest Treatment:
  "Everyone say, she’s safe, the baby’s healthy. Like, that’s all fine. But…everyone wants the exclusive with Angelique because the story’s insane." (Patrick, 14:31, 14:45)
• On the Show’s Abandonment of Promises:
  "The whole thing was a facade." (Marla, 53:25)
• On Media Complicity:
  "The Boston Globe caved. My jaw was on the ground. Your spotlight." (Patrick, 65:44)
• On Phil’s Pattern:
  "To the surprise of no one, however, Phil has been a grifter his entire life." (Patrick, 63:41)
• On Surviving the Show:
  "She is everything that Dr. Phil did not expect." (Emily, 35:15)

---

Key Timestamps

• Oprah Meets Dr. Phil & His Rise: 05:01–05:46
• License Lapses & Shift in Show: 10:26–10:48
• Emily Jones’ Story: 12:10–13:33, 28:38–29:59
• Angelique’s Ordeal & Book Promotion: 13:41–15:46, 33:04–34:10
• Marcy’s Forced Participation: 20:40–24:39, 31:13–32:24
• Todd Herzog’s Exploitative Episode: 25:38–27:09
• Treatment Center Kickbacks: 45:03–46:32, 49:13–51:47
• VR Therapy & “Money Laundering”: 60:41–61:45
• Leah Rothman Lawsuit & Staff Lock-In: 57:49–60:19
• Boston Globe Quits Investigation: 64:47–66:02
• Final Reflections on Oprah & Phil: 66:55–67:22

---

Conclusion

This episode delivers a scathing, in-depth look at the Dr. Phil enterprise. Julia and Patrick, with humor, empathy, and justified outrage, detail the machinery of exploitation that turned real trauma into prime time entertainment—and the trail of harm left by a figure once endorsed by Oprah. The ultimate takeaway: behind the veneer of “tough love” and pop-psychology, there was little intention to help—only to extract pain for profit.

---

Next Up:
The podcast will recap "Wild Boys: Strangers in Town," another wild and infuriating story, so stay tuned!

---

Transcript

[Julia Mandavale]

So I was leaving the gym the other day, and as I was walking away, I swear to God, this happened. I'm not making this up. There was a lady coming into the building with her tiny little dog.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Mandavale]

And the dog wasn't cooperating. So I sort of, like, just scooted around them. And from behind me, I hear her go, morticia. Morticia.

[Patrick Hines]

Cute.

[Julia Mandavale]

Morticia.

[Patrick Hines]

Because, you know, my first question was, if he doesn't tell me the name of this dog, by the end of

[Julia Mandavale]

the story, the dog's name was Morticia. I love that. I was laughing so hard.

[Patrick Hines]

Mortish.

[Julia Mandavale]

Hi. Julia Mandavale.

[Patrick Hines]

Hello. Patrick Hines.

[Julia Mandavale]

Sam. Don't forget to join us at the Patreon. Exciting, exciting, exciting news.

[Patrick Hines]

Guess what, everybody?

[Julia Mandavale]

Full video episodes on Patreon. Our editor Jennifer has, like, she learned how to edit video so she can edit our videos for our Patreon. They look so freaking good. We're starting with the Rocky Mountain mortician murders.

[Documentary Narrator/Reporter]

Yeah.

[Julia Mandavale]

If you want to just do audio, that's fine. Nothing changes. If you want to see us do video versions as well, they are also going to be there.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. I just want to say I love Jennifer so much. Jennifer, edit. Let the women do the work. Because I've been working with and loving on Jennifer for years. Just like, I'm so excited. I'm so proud. I'm just like, thank you. Jennifer.

[Julia Mandavale]

Incredible. We love her so much. The videos look great. Go check it out. What's the other thing?

[Patrick Hines]

YouTube.

[Julia Mandavale]

Oh, my God. Yeah. Also, if you like video on video, please go follow us on YouTube. We have over 250,000 subscribers there. Sometimes I just go, like, to, like, check on them, and I end up watching them for half an hour.

[Patrick Hines]

Come on.

[Julia Mandavale]

We're so engaging. Like, we're so fun. Fun on the tube of you.

[Patrick Hines]

You just want to go say hi and check up on. Yeah.

[Julia Mandavale]

I'm like, hey, you guys.

[Guest/Interviewee]

Hey, guys.

[Patrick Hines]

How's it going?

[Julia Mandavale]

Sexy people talking true crime. It's true crime obsessed podcast on the YouTube.

[Patrick Hines]

Yep.

[Julia Mandavale]

What are we talking about today?

[Patrick Hines]

All right. That new show, Dirty Rotten Scandals. They have one on the Dr. Phil show. It's two parts. We're doing it in one.

[Julia Mandavale]

Dr. Tell it like it is. Phil McGraw.

[Patrick Hines]

I would like for people to have a real idea about Dr. Phil.

[Guest/Interviewee]

They are there to get you in and out. So f have a taxi cab literally sitting out there. I bawled my eyes out in that cab.

They're set up to fail. They're manipulated.

We had to do absolutely everything that we could to get them there.

I had no say in anything at all the entire time we were there.

My traumatic experiences were seen as entertainment.

[Patrick Hines]

Fear is permanent. Every day it was cold.

[Guest/Interviewee]

You feel like you're working for the devil.

[Documentary Narrator/Reporter]

Technically, he's not a real doctor, but, like, he's Dr. Phil. That's his whole brand.

[Guest/Interviewee]

He is no stranger to controversy and television's Dr. Phil is under fire once again.

[Patrick Hines]

Today

[Julia Mandavale]

I had low expectations for this. I did not because it's like a USA Networks thing. I didn't really know how it was going to go. It is really good.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, they got Dave Holmes to sit down. Do you remember how we were all introduced to Dave Holmes on mtv?

[Julia Mandavale]

He was like a vj.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, no, he lost. Well, he was. But he lost the wannabe Jeffrey to that guy Jesse Camp. Do you remember Jesse Camp?

[Julia Mandavale]

Yes, of course.

[Patrick Hines]

And like, Dave obviously should have won.

[Julia Mandavale]

Didn't he become a vj?

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, Dave's doing great. Like, he ended up doing everything. He worked in music forever. He still does. You know, We've seen him in a lot of talking heads, but it's just funny, like, how we. The world was introduced to him.

[Julia Mandavale]

Yeah. He's also gay. He's older. He looks great. I was like, are you my future?

[Patrick Hines]

He's got, like, such a great knowledge. I just love seeing him. I'm like, oh, well, we'll be okay.

[Julia Mandavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

This year.

[Julia Mandavale]

Yeah. Well, we're at the Boston Globe.

[Documentary Narrator/Reporter]

We learn this tipster, a minor celebrity had read our stories and said they really needed to talk to us. They said, you should investigate Dr. Phil. We were like, what the is that? I mean, like, that's ridiculous. We're serious people and we are not going to investigate Dr. Phil because that is not a serious thing to investigate.

[Julia Mandavale]

I want to spend the next two hours investigating who this minor celebrity was.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Mandavale]

Was it Dave Holmes? I don't know. Was it?

[Patrick Hines]

I don't know.

[Julia Mandavale]

And I love that they had to say minor celebrity. That's my favorite part of the whole thing.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, I also want to say about Dave Holmes, what he says about Oprah is that, like, she kind of pulled a bunch of shady shit and unleashed some terrible people onto the world.

[Julia Mandavale]

Yeah. Except for Susie Orman. She was great.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, he mentioned Susie Orman. I'm like, wait a second. I think of two things when I think of Susie Orman.

[Julia Mandavale]

No girlfriend. Denied.

[Patrick Hines]

Kristen Wiig's perfect, perfect, perfect impression and her perfect cameo on Big Love.

[Julia Mandavale]

Oh.

[Patrick Hines]

Because Nikki, played by Chloe, has like a. Has a, like, spending money problem. She calls into the Susie Orman show.

[Julia Mandavale]

Stop it.

[Patrick Hines]

And Susie Orman's like, nikki, what did I tell you about those credit cards?

[Julia Mandavale]

Nikki, come on, girlfriend.

[Patrick Hines]

It's so good. And also Dr. Oz, like, where's the big expose documentary about him? Because that awful.

[Julia Mandavale]

Definitely coming. Like, no question.

[Patrick Hines]

And then Dr. Phil, and it's like, oprah, girl. What was going on over there?

[Julia Mandavale]

Oprah, like, owes us some answers. No joke.

[Patrick Hines]

Guess what? We're never going to get them.

[Julia Mandavale]

We're never going to get them. But we learned that, like, the. Dr. Phil was introduced to Oprah when she went through her, like, beef scandal. Do you remember this?

[Patrick Hines]

Barely.

[Julia Mandavale]

It was like the mad cow thing. I don't. I don't really remember it either. But, like, she got. She was like, talking shit about beef. She got sued to shit. Dr. Phil was apparently, like, her, like, service psychologist.

[Patrick Hines]

No, she. He had a business called Courtroom Sciences. So he helped her, like, how to navigate being deposed or whatever. And so Oprah liked him. So that. Because of that. But that's how they met, because she was dealing with a lawsuit, and then she had him on the show all the time.

[Guest/Interviewee]

Dr. Phil went from being an occasional guest on the show to being a regular guest on the show to being a fixture on the show. Within a couple years, they gave him his own show. And immediately, like, his face was suddenly everywhere. He became like Oprah in that you don't need a last name. Then when she left, he was on top.

[Patrick Hines]

And then he went from being an occasional guest to a regular guest to a permanent fixture. And then she just gave him his own show. Yeah, that's how that happened.

[Julia Mandavale]

You know who also they're not mentioning here is Ayanla Van Sant. Do you remember her?

[Patrick Hines]

No.

[Julia Mandavale]

She was very early days Oprah. She was like the original, like, doctor. She's actually an amazing woman.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, great.

[Guest/Interviewee]

And.

[Patrick Hines]

But, like, probably know her on site, right?

[Julia Mandavale]

She's like, early Oprah days. And then, like. But she was just kind of like a life coach. And then Oprah was gonna give her a show, but then said she wasn't ready, so another network tried to give her a show. Then Oprah blacklisted her. And then when.

[Patrick Hines]

But what.

[Julia Mandavale]

But then when Oprah was doing her final season, she went to be like, what's Ayanla up to now? And, like, revitalized Iyanla, like, went and found her, brought her back on the show for the last season, then gave her her own show on the OWN network. It was Ayanla, fix my life. I think I was obsessed with ayanla wow.

[Patrick Hines]

How is she now?

[Julia Mandavale]

I don't know. I don't think did very well. But Yana was amazing. Unless she's not. But I really loved her.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, she's not as bad as Dr. Phil, as far as I know.

[Julia Mandavale]

Absolutely not, girl. Ladder is a new sponsor. I'm so excited about this because this is all about the making of the workouts accessible.

[Patrick Hines]

Ladder is like perfect for me because I need to be told what to do at the gym. I never have a plan. I have no idea what I'm doing. So Ladder is perfect.

[Julia Mandavale]

Yeah. The other thing too about ladder is that gym fatigue is real and gym boredom is real. If you go to the gym and do the same thing every week, you're just going to get bored and you're going to stop. With Ladder, you get a new plan every week that builds on the last because you want to, like, keep getting better.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And it's like having a coach right there with you. So in your coaching guides you through every set. You get cues, you get like form reminders, which is always a big deal. You get motivation and you know, for

[Julia Mandavale]

the longest time I was keeping. Now you're going to hear something me say something crazy, fam. I was keeping a spreadsheet of my progress so I could remember. But Ladder does this for you. The app remembers your weight, your reps and your sets, which is like, you absolutely need to like keep track of that if you want to keep building strength.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And I also just want to say it costs less than a dollar a day, so I think says a lot.

[Julia Mandavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

You can get everything you need, but it's like elite level personal training for a fraction of what you pay.

[Julia Mandavale]

I am obsessed. Tis the season to get healthy, fam. Remove the guesswork with ladder and get a real coach in your ear telling you exactly what to do for every workout. No thinking. Everything planned for you.

[Patrick Hines]

If you have an iPhone, head to Ladder, dot fit slash TCO and take a quick quiz to find your perfect ladder plan.

[Julia Mandavale]

Use our link to get a free 7 day trial with no credit card and $10 off your first month if you join.

[Patrick Hines]

I love it. I'm saying it.

[Julia Mandavale]

It's the thing that I always needed. Like, please tell me what to do in the gym.

[Patrick Hines]

Seriously.

[Julia Mandavale]

We're with this journalist named Evan Allen and she is an investigative reporter for Boston magazine and my.

[Patrick Hines]

No, the Boston Globe.

[Julia Mandavale]

Oh, yeah, you're right. Boston Globe. Boston Globe.

[Patrick Hines]

That's very, very important, 100%.

[Julia Mandavale]

Because my first note about her is like, this woman is not fudgeing around.

[Patrick Hines]

If you don't know. The Boston Globe did. Spotlight has. Spotlight. Spotlight. Like, the movie is based on what they did to uncover all the abuses in the Catholic Church. Yeah. So, like, when you hear the Boston, you're like, oh, shit.

[Julia Mandavale]

You can tell when she gets her teeth into something, she really gives a shit about it. And she's really into this.

[Patrick Hines]

And, well, she explains that in the

[Documentary Narrator/Reporter]

early days of Dr. Phil, the segments are funnier, they're lighter. The next clip shows he was straight talking Texas guy cutting through the bullshit because he cares about you and he's going to tell you the truth. And it's like a truth that you need to hear. There was a turning point where the tone really shifted and he had this

[Patrick Hines]

vibe of like, he's cut through the bullshit because he cares so much and he, like, really wants to help you and tough love and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, okay, yeah.

[Julia Mandavale]

And I remember too, thinking, like, oh, he's gonna be like the dad I never had, like, early on, because he. She's right. Like, he went from being this sort of, like, jovial, I'm gonna give you the tough love, but I really love you and whatever. He's a buffoon, literal buffoon.

[Patrick Hines]

He's like a bully and a buffoon and a loud mouth blowhard.

[Julia Mandavale]

And maybe he was just pretending in the beginning, but I do remember those, like, early lovey dovey Dr. Phil days.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, they probably didn't get any ratings, which is why we're here. Like, no one wanted to watch Fluffy. Like, everyone's happy at the end. And we actually do help the poor kid who's doing whatever.

[Julia Mandavale]

Who's his wife. Is it Robyn? Because she would be on the Oprah show sometimes. You don't know. You haven't read the biography? No, I just remember, like, it became like a family affair.

[Patrick Hines]

Like someone married this.

[Julia Mandavale]

Oh, his wife, I think it's. Robin, was like a fixture with him for, like, from time to time on the Open.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, she must be in on this, too.

[Julia Mandavale]

She never got to be on the stage, though. Like, he'd be on the stage and she'd be like, in the audience and they would, like, call on her sometimes.

[Patrick Hines]

Didn't Kathie Lee do that all the time with her?

[Julia Mandavale]

With Frank?

[Patrick Hines]

Was it. She always, like, talk. Weren't they always talking off camera to somebody?

[Julia Mandavale]

Oh, to Gelman.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, right.

[Julia Mandavale]

To Gelman, the producer who like that. I had such a big crush, kind of. And in looking back on it, it was kind. It very Much. Felt like wifey. Like, oh, let's ask wifey her opinion.

[Patrick Hines]

Whatever. The first four years.

[Julia Mandavale]

Do you need another reason to hate him or you're good? Oh, okay.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, this is crazy. The first four years of the show, he actually was a licensed psychologist.

[Documentary Narrator/Reporter]

But then we found that in 2006, he let his license labs, which means that he's not a licensed doctor. After that, you can see yourself. The show became more sensational, more disturbing.

[Julia Mandavale]

It's so weird when people let their license lab for the thing that they're known for.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, especially when he has a show saying that he's Dr. Phil, but he doesn't have a license anymore. So when you go around saying you're like, a doctor or like a lawyer, but you don't actually have the license, you let it lapse. Like, you can't do that.

[Julia Mandavale]

And I wonder if it's just like, oh, I'm on TV now. Because, like, he would. Like, we see him talking about, like, I take it really seriously, but it is glamorous life. As he's, like, doing the. No, I let it lapse. That's what I'm saying. I think that he was like, oh, I can be done, like, doing real work. I'll just, like, go be, like, a TV star now, you know, and not defending him. Like, like, you cannot be called Dr. Phil. Like, you can't call your show Dr. Phil and not actually be a doctor.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm calling him Phil from now until the end of the episode. I'm not calling Dr. Phil.

[Julia Mandavale]

So.

[Patrick Hines]

But this is when the shift happens. Like, this is when it gets more disturbing. Like, we see this thing. It's one of the episodes is called. And these episodes are, like, 10 sentences long.

[Julia Mandavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

It went from Mom's on the Edge to, my teenage daughter is pregnant, and she is convinced it's Jesus. And then we see this clip of this brat being like, I am pregnant, and it is Jesus. And it is Jesus. And I'm like, who's. No one's believing this. We're just watching it because it's like, you know what?

[Julia Mandavale]

They once said that to a lady in a manger. She turned out to be right.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay, we're not doing this. But, like, who took her seriously? Who was like, she really believes that these are people who want to be on TV to Los Angeles.

[Julia Mandavale]

Yeah, totally.

[Patrick Hines]

So Emily Jones, however, was a guest in 2011. She was 16 years old.

[Guest/Interviewee]

That's when I wound up finding out that I was pregnant. Me and my boyfriend broke up about a month into the Pregnancy I didn't really feel comfortable with, like, abortion. I felt that it was the right choice to take care of it and hold myself responsible.

[Julia Mandavale]

Like, she really wanted to have this baby. She believed in herself. Yeah, but she lived in a home situation where her fucking piece of shit stepdad didn't want her to have the kid. Her mother wanted to support her. So the mom and the stepdad are fighting all the time, and the mom doesn't want to have to choose between her husband and her daughter. So what does she do? She calls. The only logical thing, she calls Dr. Phil.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. And I'm like, well, why do you have to choose? Why is it all about the mom? Like, I. Like I don't.

[Julia Mandavale]

And the truth of the matter is it feels like it's all about the stepdad.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Mandavale]

Because it's like the stepdad who's like, she can't have it. And the mom's like, she wants. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Mandavale]

It's my reading that Emily wanted the baby, and she. And she decides to keep it.

[Patrick Hines]

But the point is, like, now this. She's like, this family's falling apart, and her mom is so desperate that she calls Dr. Phil. Sorry that the mom calls the Dr. Phil show. The Dr. Phil, she calls. But, like, Emily begs her mom not to make a girl on the show. And basically, her mom is basically told, like, if you care about your family, you'll do it.

[Julia Mandavale]

Like, if you care about my marriage, you will go on the show.

[Patrick Hines]

So that's. That's Emily's beginning story. Now we go to Angelique, who was a guest in 2013. Now, this is different because the show came to her this.

[Julia Mandavale]

Well, because the entire world came to her. Story is bananas.

[Patrick Hines]

It's insane.

[Julia Mandavale]

In 2011, she was pregnant. A friend asked her if she could come over to, like, hang out. The friend tells Angelique, I've got a present for you. Turn around and count to three. When she gets to two, Emily's like, do you have two butcher knives at my back?

[Patrick Hines]

The answer is.

[Julia Mandavale]

Turns out. Turns out. The answer is yes.

[Guest/Interviewee]

I stood up as fast as I could, ran, and turned the light on.911 was called. The cops were there. They could all see two large butcher knives. They also found scissors, disinfectant, a baby onesie, a newborn blanket. That's when I started to realize she had plotted to kill me and perform a C section on my body, to

[Julia Mandavale]

take my unborn child, to literally, like, cut the baby out of Angelique's body and leave Angelique for Dead and take the baby for herself. That's a real thing that happens.

[Patrick Hines]

Angelique escapes, and when she calls the cops, they find the butcher knives, the bleach, and all the baby stuff that this person had on her.

[Julia Mandavale]

Like, this is.

[Patrick Hines]

This was a 100% real thing. So everyone say, she's safe, the baby's healthy. Like, that's all fine. But this is all over the news, and everyone wants the exclusive with Angelique because the story's insane.

[Julia Mandavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So she declines everyone because she says that they all wanted to change the story. And I'm like, why? This is the way you make up this, like a crazy and say where you'd be like, that's. That would never, ever happen. And then it did. Like, what are you changing?

[Julia Mandavale]

What are they. I didn't even think that through.

[Patrick Hines]

What are they changing it in the most cynical way? I'm like, this will get you all the ratings you need for the entire year.

[Julia Mandavale]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

This story is crazy.

[Julia Mandavale]

Well, the Dr. Phil show reaches out and they're like, we want to give you a platform to tell your story on your terms.

[Patrick Hines]

We would be honored to have you honored.

[Julia Mandavale]

And she's like, literally, like, Dr. Phil was like the biggest thing. Like, it was literally like being asked to be on Oprah at that time in 2013.

[Patrick Hines]

She said, yeah.

[Julia Mandavale]

And so she's like, all right, great. I'm going to take the Dr. Phil show up on their offer. I'm going to go do this.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. Because they told her outright, this is your show. You can tell your story. However, and it's our. It's just a privilege and an honor to, like, be in your presence.

[Julia Mandavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, finally. Okay. So then we get all of these, like, staff members who have fake names, but they all. All say the same thing. Like, the show was never about helping people. Phil's an egomaniac. It's all about ratings. It's manipulative, it's predatory.

[Guest/Interviewee]

We were told to tell them that it's going to be life changing, that he's going to help them, that they're going to get resources that they would never otherwise get. Everybody believed that he was a real doctor and that, you know, he had the best of intentions for that. It really wasn't until they actually, like, got on stage that it all sort of started to fall apart.

[Julia Mandavale]

Make all the promises in the world, just get them fucking here and, like,

[Patrick Hines]

do the razzle dazzle up front. So Angelique, like, they fly her and her baby to LA and everything is like, all expenses paid, top of the Line. And this is where we meet Jack, the travel coordinator.

[Julia Mandavale]

This poor guy. I hope that there was a mental health professional on set for Jack really feels like he's reliving some trauma because

[Patrick Hines]

his job was to make the trip out there and where you stay as flawless and like, hey, welcome to Hollywood, baby. Because that's all part of the manipulation. Like, they razzle dazzle you upfront so they can trick you later.

[Julia Mandavale]

And he literally talks about how, like, they filmed on the par lot. I've been to the Paramount lot.

[Patrick Hines]

That's crazy.

[Julia Mandavale]

It is absolutely iconic. It's.

[Patrick Hines]

It is.

[Julia Mandavale]

And Jack says it too. Like, you literally open the gates and you're going into like the Paramount. It's absolutely breathtakingly gorgeous.

[Patrick Hines]

It's gorgeous. You see like the mountains and like everything that was filmed there. So, like, I know iconic is overused. The Paramount lot is.

[Julia Mandavale]

Is absolutely iconic. So, like, that's also part of the razzle dazzle because, like, what everyone is going to tell us going forward is like, once you're there, they very much make you feel like you can't leave. And this is all part of that.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. And also everyone who worked on the show was miserable too, because they were filled with an tons of stress. Phil is a nightmare. He's always screaming at everybody.

[Julia Mandavale]

The thing that's like, we were talking about this a little bit before we started, that's hard to remember, is like, I worked in radio in the late 90s, early 2000.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Mandavale]

And it was. This was the culture. It's not like the Dr. Phil show, I think. I'm not defending the Dr. Phil show by any stretch. I'm just saying this is what culture was like back then. Like, you were kind of supposed to hate your job. You were supposed to do anything to get the guests. You were supposed to be awful. Like, this is kind of what the world was like.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, it was a lot of it was very like Devil Wears Prada. Like a million girls would kill for this job.

[Julia Mandavale]

1 if you want wanted to do anything in entertainment, you were made to feel lucky to be spat on by your boss.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julia Mandavale]

Yeah, that's.

[Patrick Hines]

As someone who also worked in radio. Yeah, yeah.

[Julia Mandavale]

And Jack is talking just about, like, what, like life, like working on the show was like. And talking about Phil. Now we got to talk about this for one.

[Patrick Hines]

Thank you for calling him Phil.

[Julia Mandavale]

And I don't even have a doctor in front of me in my notes.

[Patrick Hines]

Good. Thank you. That means a lot to me because fudge this guy.

[Julia Mandavale]

It's my pleasure.

[Patrick Hines]

Thank you.

[Julia Mandavale]

I. Should I do a final replace for Doctor and just put in two spaces?

[Patrick Hines]

No. You could just not say it.

[Julia Mandavale]

I'm going to try, but I read it.

[Patrick Hines]

Sorry, I won't correct you every time. Everyone knows how I feel. I'm looking directly into the camera.

[Julia Mandavale]

She found a camera. She's looking at it. But Jack is saying that he's a

[Guest/Interviewee]

very tall, big guy. It's this sort of direct, booming voice coming at you. And the way Dr. Phil treated the producers created an environment of fear. You don't want to end up in a room with Dr. Phil being screamed at.

[Julia Mandavale]

He was tall with a booming voice. I mentioned this to you yesterday off mic. The guy that they get to play Phil in the reenactments because it's all blurry. You don't actually see it, but he is a doppelganger. And I'm like, did they shave his head for this? Like, he's got the mustache, he's got the oversized suit.

[Patrick Hines]

But that's such a wig. Like, that's such a wig you can get in any costume store where it's bald, but the hair is just going around. Wasn't that his hairdo?

[Julia Mandavale]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And especially because it is blurry. Like, you never really see the guy, but like you, he looks exactly like him. They've got the lady who plays his assistant who's wearing the worst wig.

[Patrick Hines]

I know.

[Julia Mandavale]

It's like a drag queen's first night party city wig.

[Patrick Hines]

Quick drag.

[Julia Mandavale]

Quick 100% quick drag. Like, I think they spent all their money on the Phil reenactments, and that was all they had left for the wig.

[Patrick Hines]

And I'm sure he was, like, throwing Oprah's name around too. I'm sure it was a lot of, like, don't you know who I am? There's a lot of that, right? Yep.

[Julia Mandavale]

Girl, our place is back. It's time for us to do what we do and save some lives.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. We're getting rid of toxicity in our lives, but especially in our kitchen.

[Julia Mandavale]

Exactly. And that's the danger of traditional nonstick cookware. Fam. They are loaded with those forever chemicals. Those are awful.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And they're not just in nonstick cookware. They're in, like, air fryers, utensils. And our place is helping you get rid of all that.

[Julia Mandavale]

And look, you can start simple. They've got this amazing four piece cookware set. That's what we got. It's the best way to overhaul your kitchen with multifunctional, high performance space saving

[Patrick Hines]

pots and pans they also have the wonder oven. So this is an air fryer and toaster oven. Sold out eight times. It's made from stainless steel and glass. Glass, Yeah. I love it.

[Julia Mandavale]

This is what we use exclusively in our house. I now make myself make dinner for my family once a week. I look forward to using it. I know I'm giving them like the stuff that's good for them. It doesn't have all those toxins in

[Patrick Hines]

it and it's pretty. It's sleek and pretty.

[Julia Mandavale]

It is pretty. So fam, stop cooking with toxic cookware and upgrade to our place today.

[Patrick Hines]

Visit from Our Place.com TCO and use code TCO for 10% off site wide

[Julia Mandavale]

with 100 day risk free trial free shipping and returns. You can experience this game changing cookware with zero risk. Like how I do once a week for my family.

[Patrick Hines]

Exactly. Now we meet Marcy. She was also a guest in 2017. She was 17 years old. And just like Emily, her mother wrote to the show asking for help. And Marcy is a truly heartbreaking story.

[Julia Mandavale]

It's just hard.

[Patrick Hines]

Women do.

[Julia Mandavale]

I mean, Marcy comes from a very low income family. Her parents were divorced. Her brother molested her twice when they were younger and he was taken out of the home by family services. The mom signed away the parental rights and in the, in the custody of the state, he never finished his sexual offender program. So when he turns 18, he goes and moves in with the dad who has absolutely no idea how to fucking manage or deal with him. So he's like allowed to just go do whatever he want. He's like a really, really fucked up kid.

[Guest/Interviewee]

My mom was scared that he was going to reoffend. She knew he still needed that help. That's why she wrote the show. My mom was like, Dr. Phil show answered me and you know, we're going to get help.

[Patrick Hines]

And their mother is scared that he's going to reoffend, as they say. So like she needs help. The state didn't do and they don't have any money.

[Julia Mandavale]

Like I come from a family like this. I had a brother that did not do anything sexual like this but needed a lot of help. And we were in a similar situation. My mom had no money. I was as I was taking notes in this section, I'm like, I'm kind of shocked. My mom never wrote to Dr. Phil. Like if my mom watched daytime TV in this era, she probably would have because that was what you were being sold. Come on our show, we will help you. Not only will we help you in the moment we will give you all of the aftercare money can buy. We will make sure your family is

[Patrick Hines]

presented like a dream come true.

[Julia Mandavale]

Yes. And that's what Marcy's mom was looking for.

[Patrick Hines]

Right? For people in these, like, dire situations.

[Julia Mandavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So Marcy says that she was in therapy for years at this point, and her mother didn't want her to be re traumatized. But the show says, nope, Marcy has to come and suffer on TV in front of a live audience or we won't help you. And so Marcy reluctantly agrees. And she says, I thought it would be good for everyone. Like, this poor girl at the time, she's a girl, like, just wanting to fudgeing, do the right thing and get help for her. Like, what is she going to do?

[Julia Mandavale]

I mean, yes. And once again, like, hard to remember how big TV was in the pre, like, social media era.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, Oprah approved. And I keep hitting that home because at the time, it was huge.

[Julia Mandavale]

It would be huge today.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, the Oprah Book Club, anything. The Oprah's favorite things. Like, then, you know, like, all of this stuff, like, if Oprah said you were one of the good ones, then, like, your life was changed forever.

[Julia Mandavale]

Dr. Phil was the Oprah Winfrey heir apparent. You know what I mean? So we get another little piece from Angelique about being on set. They're making you feel like royalty. Like, making you want to be there

[Patrick Hines]

until you get there. And then they bully you and call you names or manipulate you.

[Julia Mandavale]

Well, but what they also do is they separate the kids from the adults. So Emily, the one that was pregnant at 16, gets there with her mother. They separate them immediately. Emily is telling anybody who will listen that she doesn't want to do this. And every. People are literally telling her it's too

[Patrick Hines]

late, it's too late.

[Julia Mandavale]

Making it understood to her that she has no agency here.

[Patrick Hines]

And same with Marcy. So they separated Marcy from her mother. And Marcy and her mother are, like, in this together for sure. And some random producer starts grilling Marcy about her assault for four hours. This person is not qualified to be talking to Marcy at all.

[Julia Mandavale]

And, like, wants details about the sexual abuse at the hands of her brother and then is giving her feedback, like, he wants it said in certain ways.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Julia Mandavale]

Like, this is how you say what he did to you.

[Patrick Hines]

And Marcy's like, cool, I don't want to do this. Like, I. She could not have been clearer. I want to go home. I want to go home. Let me out of here. And they Say, well she looked directly

[Guest/Interviewee]

at me and she said, if you don't film this episode tomorrow, we won't pay for your way home. We were a low income family. We didn't have the money to pay for a plane ride back for all four of us. So there wasn't really anything we could do about it.

[Julia Mandavale]

They've got to get airfare for four of them back to Boston. Like they're not going to be able to pay for the hotel that night. They are financially manipulating these people in

[Patrick Hines]

the moment they're being held hostage.

[Julia Mandavale]

That just enraged because they literally know that that means that the has absolutely no choice but to do it.

[Patrick Hines]

And what they're doing, they're doing this to Marcy who's 17 years old, she's a sexual assault survivor, she's an incest survivor. And this is how they're treating her and her mother who's desperate for help because the state didn't do anything right to do it. It is so beyond cruel to not even see these people as real humans who are going through shit who really do need help.

[Julia Mandavale]

And I was thinking too, these were five shows a week. Like not only do they need constant content like this, and as we're going to hear they are churning these people out like you're, you get re traumatized, you're there for 90 minutes and they spit you back out into a car and off you go.

[Patrick Hines]

Must have made a fortune.

[Julia Mandavale]

Of course those five day a week talk shows with millions of viewers, it's insane.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. So Evan the reporter says the way they treated guests on the show is exactly like an abusive relationship because they love bomb you. They draw you in and then they isolate you and then they bully you and manipulate you once you have nowhere to turn. So they're setting the guests up to fail or be embarrassed or humiliated or whatever.

[Julia Mandavale]

And if it doesn't look like you're going to fail enough, they're going to set you up to fail even worse. So we learn about Todd Herzog. Poor guy, I mean this is unbelievable. 22 year old guy addicted to alcohol. And once again they separate him from his family. He's alone in his, in his dressing room where they have left bottles of vodka. And knowing he's going to drink one, he drinks a full bottle of vodka. His family is out on stage. First they're all talking about what a problem. Like the family is there to get him help. So this guy does literally not drink himself to death. Yeah, well Dr. Phil has placed a bottle of fucking vodka in the, in the guy's dressing room knowing he's gon.

[Patrick Hines]

And when they bring him out, like, they have to like, help him come out. This poor guy's crying, he's apologizing. It's so sad.

[Julia Mandavale]

He's so hammered he cannot walk without two people on either side of him holding him up.

[Patrick Hines]

And Phil says, we're going to bring Todd out and that's going to be a bit of a chore. Fuck you. How dare you.

[Julia Mandavale]

I know, it's horrible.

[Patrick Hines]

How dare you. So Phil then also conveniently has a breathalyzer in his pocket.

[Julia Mandavale]

I mean, that is also. They make him do a breathalyzer on camera. He does it. He blows a point to six, which is insanely high.

[Documentary Narrator/Reporter]

And Dr. Phil says, I've never seen spoken anyone closer to death. Take him to the hospital. What are you doing?

[Julia Mandavale]

Reporter Evan is like, take him to the fucking. This guy could die right here on your set.

[Patrick Hines]

And like, while he. After Todd blew the point to six, like upcoming all the scary facts behind Phil about alcohol. It's like, you knew this went exactly how they wanted it to.

[Julia Mandavale]

Yeah, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So they didn't help him. They didn't do anything. They mortified him on purpose for ratings and that's what they did to everybody.

[Julia Mandavale]

And of course they deny leaving alcohol out for him.

[Patrick Hines]

Right, of course. So Evan, the reporter breaks down this release form that they signed saying that Phil does not and will not administer individual, group or medical therapy. And you can't sue for like invasion of privacy or defamation or emotional distress or anything. You give all of your rights away because you think, well, at the end of this, I'm going to get the help I need or I'm going to get. I'm going to get something that I could never afford or whatever. You just figure like, well, what does Dr. Phil going to do to me?

[Julia Mandavale]

And also like, no one reads those things. But by the time you get to the point of signing the release, like you've been in hair and makeup for 90 minutes, you've been retraumatized. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Then they trick you.

[Julia Mandavale]

You just sign it, right? And like you. You have absolutely no idea what you've given up. And by the way, the guy's name is Dr. Phil. So like, you just assume you're there being treated on national television in front of an audience. Cause the guy calls himself a doctor, right?

[Patrick Hines]

Little do they know, like, that's just the name of the show.

[Julia Mandavale]

Exactly, exactly. Oh my God.

[Patrick Hines]

And one thing I'm not like victim blaming in any way. But I'm curious what episodes they watched of the show before they went on. Because if this, if this was so rampant.

[Julia Mandavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

I just wonder. I think, I mean, we'll, we'll get to this later. That where it's like the reward outweighs the rest.

[Julia Mandavale]

I also think that when you're watching somebody else be on the receiving end of the quote, tough love, it looks like he's doctoring, you know, and you don't think he's gonna do it to you. Like they, and probably the producers have convinced him, he loves you, he wants to help you, he's on your side.

[Patrick Hines]

And also like a pregnant 16 year old, what can he say? Incest, you know?

[Julia Mandavale]

Well, and we get her. So like Emily, the pregnant 16 year old girl is like, she thinks that he's gonna like help reunite.

[Patrick Hines]

That's what this. Her family is fractured. They are here to have like a big group therapy session to help. It's not really about Emily being pregnant anymore because it's really about like their dynamic is what we're told.

[Julia Mandavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So then suddenly like he's yelling at Emily and she's the problem and then we have to talk about like pregnant teenagers. And Emily's like, I'm sorry.

[Julia Mandavale]

And he's grilling her.

[Guest/Interviewee]

Did you get pregnant on purpose?

No, I did not get pregnant on purpose.

Did you want to get pregnant?

[Patrick Hines]

No.

[Guest/Interviewee]

And you want to keep the baby? I'd like to keep the baby and raise the baby. But what you really mean is you want to keep the baby so your family can raise the baby, right?

[Julia Mandavale]

No, he's attacking her. And like when the camera cuts to her and you see the look, like she is humiliated, devastated. And she's questioning like, is he right? Did I actually do all of these things? Am I a terrible fucking person?

[Patrick Hines]

And like the bait and switch is so severe because they all thought, even though Emily was like, I don't want to do this, I don't want to do this, they all thought that this was like going to just be a public group therapy session. That'll probably be embarrassing, but like, that's the point. But instead they humiliate the 16 year old girl who is going through something very serious.

[Julia Mandavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And she's told every single person in the building that she doesn't want to be there. And she's on that stage against her will.

[Julia Mandavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And everyone knows all of those steps before except the studio audience.

[Julia Mandavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

And Phil is still like, this is the way to go.

[Julia Mandavale]

Right. Because the audience thinks that this is what she signed up for. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Julia Mandavale]

That she was dragged there by her parents to get her ass kicked by Dr. Phil.

[Patrick Hines]

And isn't she a horrible, evil whore because she's 16 and pregnant.

[Julia Mandavale]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

And let's judge her and I'll point the finger and blah, blah, blah.

[Julia Mandavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And also Marcy, the sexual assault incest survivor. She's 17. She's also telling everyone in the building that she doesn't want to do this. And she says she didn't even have a conversation with Phil beforehand, so she didn't even know what to expect.

[Julia Mandavale]

Phil never. Oh, I love not calling him Dr. Phil. It's so good. So free.

[Patrick Hines]

Just like a guy named Phil.

[Julia Mandavale]

Phil.

[Patrick Hines]

What he's always been.

[Julia Mandavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Some blowhard named Phil.

[Julia Mandavale]

Totally.

[Patrick Hines]

No offense to all the good Phil's.

[Julia Mandavale]

No good Phil's. I see you. I love you. But Marcy is, like, sitting there on the stage having to, like, once again relive for America what her brother did to her.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, I also just want to say, because there's no prep with Phil, that's just bad production.

[Julia Mandavale]

Oh, that's what I was going to say. Phil does not say hello before, and he does not ever, like, talk to you again after.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, in addition to all the vile, unethical shit, it's just bad production.

[Julia Mandavale]

He probably just shows up 15 minutes before. Before taping.

[Patrick Hines]

No one's allowed to look at him.

[Julia Mandavale]

Yep. And leaves five minutes after.

[Patrick Hines]

Powder his nose and out he goes.

[Julia Mandavale]

Powder his nose and out he goes.

[Patrick Hines]

And this episode is again, more bad product. The episode is called My Son Claims he will Not Reoffend, comma, but have I Raised a sexual predator? Season 15 Episode 150 oh, my God. So in the introduction, Phil says that the brother has molested multiple people, by the way. Oh, Marcy goes first. She comes out first alone. They have her out there by herself.

[Julia Mandavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Then her mother comes, and then they play this interview with the brother on the screen.

[Guest/Interviewee]

We're going to hear from him now. He does talk about. About some of his violation of. You. Are you okay with us playing this?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Mandavale]

And you had no idea that they

[Patrick Hines]

were going to do this?

[Guest/Interviewee]

I didn't. That was the first time I heard him talking about it.

[Patrick Hines]

Phil springs this on Marcie with no notice, and then in the moment, she's like a deer in hell. My heart breaks for her. And he's like, you're okay with this, right, Marcy? And. And she's like, okay, so now? But they got her. They got her on camera saying yes. And so they. To them, they're in the clear. But meanwhile, anyone with two eyes and is watching this is like, you're manipulating her. She doesn't even know where. Like, what. It's all the lights in her face. Like, oh, my God.

[Julia Mandavale]

What about hearing him literally describe in graphic detail what he did to her? Yeah, who wants to hear that?

[Patrick Hines]

She said, sitting on that stage, I felt like I wanted to die.

[Julia Mandavale]

What? How would you not turn the channel if I was like, there's. Who is listening to that?

[Patrick Hines]

A lot of people.

[Julia Mandavale]

Anyone who is, like, interested to hear what he did to her in graphic detail needs to take a good, hard look at them.

[Patrick Hines]

It's true. Isn't your imagination bad enough?

[Julia Mandavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, yes. So. But this is just unconscionable. And he didn't help. All he did is cause harm. Like, what help? What help did he promise that, like, nothing came of it, caused harm, and,

[Julia Mandavale]

like, raised ratings for himself? Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

And this is when Evan, the reporter is like, hi, this is child abuse as entertainment. And he's done it a zillion times.

[Julia Mandavale]

Yes. So Angelique, who was almost killed by

[Patrick Hines]

her friend and her baby was almost stolen, ripped out of her, but cut

[Julia Mandavale]

out with two fucking butcher knives. She's sitting there, like, ready to tell her story. All of a sudden, Phil is blaming her for what happened because she should have had better intuition because she's a nice person.

[Guest/Interviewee]

I felt like he was blaming me, and then all of a sudden, he brings out this book. I was used. Dr. Phil promoted his book and said that it's about people just like me, people that are too nice. But he used the fact that I trusted the Dr. Filcher to do it,

[Julia Mandavale]

then rolls out his book to be like, I wrote a book just about people like you, by the way, the audience.

[Patrick Hines]

He's laughing at her, and so is the audience. Cause he'd be like, and yet. Or like, so you ignored a bunch of stuff, didn't you? And everyone's laughing at her, and she's like, I thought. I thought it was gonna be an honor and a privilege to have me here.

[Julia Mandavale]

Meanwhile, Angelique is, like, realizing that the producers, like, scrolled through news stories across America to find a case that matched what. What. What Phil had written his book about, brought her on the show under a false pretense to create an ad for his book.

[Patrick Hines]

And so every single time, the game guest is leaves stunned and, like, walks out in a fog.

[Julia Mandavale]

I mean, they make the same face. It's. It's this every time.

[Patrick Hines]

And then, like, some PA is like. Like, literally kicks you out onto the

[Julia Mandavale]

lot, your bag in his hand, and

[Patrick Hines]

then you have to go out into the world to deal with now even more trauma than you already came in with. And you have shame and judgment, and you think people are going to be like, oh, you're that pregnant whore from Dr. Phil. Or you're that idiot who almost let her friend kill her. Or you're that. And I know so much about your sexual assault. Like, what the fuck?

[Julia Mandavale]

And it's made your home life even worse. Like, when Emily goes, luckily, the mom is, like, apologizing to her. We don't know what happened with the stepdad.

[Patrick Hines]

No.

[Julia Mandavale]

But we do know that Emily had the baby.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes. And Emily said.

[Guest/Interviewee]

She goes, look, despite what Dr. Phil said, I have an incredible daughter. She is 13, and she is an honoral student in advanced orchestra. First chair. She gets straight A's. Literally the most thoughtful, empathetic child. She is everything that Dr. Phil did not expect.

[Patrick Hines]

She's everything Phil did not expect. Good for you, Emily.

[Julia Mandavale]

I was like, advanced orchestra for first year is hard. I played the trombone. I was the third chair. And, like, even as a senior.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Julia Mandavale]

That's hard.

[Patrick Hines]

That is hard.

[Julia Mandavale]

I also took geometry as a senior. That's a sophomore level math class. I know.

[Guest/Interviewee]

I can't.

[Patrick Hines]

Please, we can't do this.

[Julia Mandavale]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

And, like, that's really great for Emily, but usually we hear it's like, Marcy's story. So Marcy says this totally. They went for help. It totally destroyed her family. Her mental health is been suffering ever since. Her mother's health severely declined. She doesn't even speak to her father. And her brother is in prison for possession of child sexual abuse. Images. So thanks for fudgeing. Nothing, Phil.

[Julia Mandavale]

Yeah, I mean, and it was like the Phil show that, like, made it all worse.

[Patrick Hines]

And that's how part one ends,

[Julia Mandavale]

girl. Goodalls is back. I love it when I get to talk about this because Daisy eats this at least once a week. You know how she is. Mac and cheese night once a week in our house.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julia Mandavale]

We have switched from that other stuff to the good old. And I actually feel good about giving this to her.

[Patrick Hines]

I love Goodalls so much. Goodalls is like a celebrity in our house. We saw it in the wild at the grocery store. Like, oh, my God, it's good.

[Julia Mandavale]

Oh, you asked for a photo. Love Goodalls Mac and cheese. Fam. Has protein, fiber, with prebiotics and vitamins and minerals from real plant sources.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And almost all Goodalls products are low glycemic index, so you get steady energy instead of a carb crash.

[Julia Mandavale]

Yeah. Plus it's Clean Label purity award certified, which means it's been tested for over 400 different contaminants. And Goodalls meets their highest standard.

[Patrick Hines]

They also have so many flavors. They're so delicious. They have different shapes. I just love Mac and cheese so much. And I love goodles.

[Julia Mandavale]

Can I just say this? If you are an adult who loves Mac and cheese, cheese, that's amazing. But if you have a kid like me that was obsessed with that, like other Mac and cheese, make this switch and they will not notice. Daisy could never tell the difference. It's as good or better.

[Patrick Hines]

It is awesome.

[Julia Mandavale]

So, fam, it's time to get some goodles for yourself.

[Patrick Hines]

We know you'll love them as much as we do.

[Julia Mandavale]

Yeah. Pick up Goodles Mac and cheese and pasta on your next shopping trip.

[Patrick Hines]

Available nationwide at Target and Walmart, plus many other major grocery stores and retailers. I can attest to that.

[Julia Mandavale]

But, like, all the time, be cool if you see it the store, give it its space. Don't crowd. Just like ask for a photo if it's appropriate.

[Patrick Hines]

Mike was like, it was like the gas port around the world. Seriously.

[Julia Mandavale]

He was like, oh, my God, girl. This episode is brought to you by IQ Bar, our exclusive snack, hydration and coffee sponsor.

[Patrick Hines]

IQ Bar protein bars, IQ Mix hydration mixes and IQ Joe mushroom coffees are the delicious, low sugar brain and body fuel you need to win your day.

[Julia Mandavale]

Can I just say, we have these all in our pantry and I use the at least one of them every single day, sometimes multiple. I always start with the coffee.

[Patrick Hines]

I have to tell you, you have to get that ultimate sampler pack. It's a great way to try all IQ Bar products and flavors. You get nine IQ Bars, eight IQ Mix sticks, and four IQ Joe sticks. You really get everything.

[Julia Mandavale]

And let me talk about these IQ plant protein bars because I am a protein bar person, but these are the smarter snack choice. They've got plenty of plant protein, tons of fiber, which is my new obsession, and no added sugar.

[Patrick Hines]

And IQ Mix is a zero sugar drink mix that hydrates with electrolytes, improves mood, and boosts clarity, which I think we all need these days.

[Julia Mandavale]

And it also makes you want to drink the water because it is delicious.

[Patrick Hines]

That too.

[Julia Mandavale]

So, fam. With over 25,000 5 star reviews and counting, more people than ever are fueling their busy lifestyles with IQ Bars, Brain and body boosting bars, hydration mixes, and mushroom Coffees.

[Patrick Hines]

Their Ultimate Sampler Pack includes all three. Just saying.

[Julia Mandavale]

And right now, Fam IQ Bar is offering our special podcast listeners 20% off all IQ Bar products, including the Ultimate Sampler pack, plus free shipping.

[Patrick Hines]

To get your 20% off, text TCO to 64,000.

[Julia Mandavale]

Text TCO to 64,000.

[Patrick Hines]

That's TCO to 64,000.

[Julia Mandavale]

Messaging data rates may apply. See terms for details.

[Patrick Hines]

That does not affect the hydration, however, does not.

[Julia Mandavale]

So episode two, Evans. Like, we knew it was bad. We tried to reach the show for comment. We spoke to their head of professional affairs, and they said the show did nothing wrong.

[Patrick Hines]

They gave us the Fox news response,

[Julia Mandavale]

quote, Dr. McGraw has a very strong sense of not trying to exploit people. Don't call him that. You call him McGraw or you call him Phil.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, here's. That's like when Fox News won that lawsuit by being like, oh, we're not a news network. We're an entertainment network. You can't believe anything Tucker Carlson says. He's an entertainer. He doesn't tell the news. Do you remember that?

[Julia Mandavale]

And maybe our next president, like, but

[Patrick Hines]

do you remember that?

[Julia Mandavale]

Yeah, vaguely.

[Patrick Hines]

It was like a zillion dollar lawsuit for, like, them talking about, like, the voting machines or whatever. And they won the lawsuit because they're like, I'm sorry, do you think we're news? Like, we're not journalists, we're entertainment. And they fudgeing one.

[Julia Mandavale]

I mean, we have no control over the media.

[Patrick Hines]

No, no. That we don't even. And that was like, however many years ago. But it reminded me of that, too. But being like, no, excuse me, because I googled it.

[Julia Mandavale]

We're just here for funsies.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, are we? That this guy Phil never had a license in California where his guy Phil.

[Julia Mandavale]

This guy Phil show never had a

[Patrick Hines]

license in Calif. California, where his show is taped, by the way. But in 2002, the California Board of Psychology determined that, like, because he is an entertainer and not, like, actually helping people, he didn't need a license.

[Julia Mandavale]

It's just like, okay, but if you believe in God, someday you're gonna have to answer to her. You know what I mean? You're calling yourself Dr. Phil and you're saying that you're gonna, like, bring these families here to help them. And you're absolutely like. Like, you're torching these people on national television so you can have a bigger pool.

[Patrick Hines]

Fox News is like, I'm sorry, did the news in our name confuse you?

[Julia Mandavale]

Well, I was just, like, scrolling through my notes. Their response, because Evan says To them. Do you have a responsibility to help these people? Quote, of course not. It's a television show. Then the other thing, too, they had that in the chamber for decades.

[Patrick Hines]

For decades.

[Julia Mandavale]

They knew they were going to need that response someday.

[Patrick Hines]

And they almost, like, loved that he didn't have his license anymore because, like, he's not a real guy. He's, like, blowhard.

[Julia Mandavale]

Oh, my God. But it's then. It's like, can we then subpoena all of the emails and all of the promises that were made to all of these people because they were told that the doctor is going to. Going to help you?

[Patrick Hines]

Well, Dave and Marla Thomas are here. They were guests in 2017, and they're going to tell us about their son, DJ.

[Julia Mandavale]

Never in recent memory have I seen two people that I would more like to spend some time with.

[Patrick Hines]

These people are awesome. So when D.J. was 23, he was diagnosed with what they say is bipolar one, schizoaffective disorder. And Marla, the mom is like, I

[Guest/Interviewee]

can tell you that David and I had exhausted every single solitary option for DJs care. He needed to be. Be in an inpatient treatment program that was going to cost out of pocket, about $10,000 a month. And so it was not doable.

[Julia Mandavale]

DJ needed inpatient treatment, and it was going to cost $10,000 a month out of pocket. Now, once again, having gone through very similar stuff with my brother, I came. I'm here to tell you that that is true.

[Patrick Hines]

Mental health treatment is not accessible.

[Julia Mandavale]

Not only is it not accessible, when you do get it, it might kill you. You know, mean what I. I mean.

[Guest/Interviewee]

Yes.

[Julia Mandavale]

So, like, it's bad all around.

[Patrick Hines]

So Dave and Marla are now, like, forced to do this themselves. And they're like, so DJ is living at home with his parents, and one day there is what they call a violent episode. And then DJ leaves the house, and now DJ is missing.

[Julia Mandavale]

Now, somehow, Dr. Phil did, like, David Marlowe reach out to Dr. Phil.

[Patrick Hines]

I don't know about this, but the show finds D.J.

[Julia Mandavale]

and I'm like, how did they even know he was missing that?

[Patrick Hines]

I have literally have that same note verbatim. I don't know if the parents reached out, but. Or not. Or they just, like, see someone in

[Julia Mandavale]

distress because it was in L. A. So it could be like a producer just scouting downtown L. A, and they

[Patrick Hines]

pick up a vulnerable person. And, I mean, it's probably that, honestly.

[Julia Mandavale]

So they say that DJ agreed to be on the show. Now Dave, the dad is like, we get it. We Know what we're walking into. We know that these shows are exploitive, but they are promising help that is out of our reach. And we made a decision as a family that it was worth it to go on the show, to get him the help that he needs.

[Patrick Hines]

It was their sacrifice to try to get a little bit of a reward. Reward. And I want to say, like, that outweighed a risk. But they didn't. They were like, this is. They had no illusions about this. They know exactly what this was.

[Julia Mandavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And their son desperately needs help, and their parents. And they're gonna do whatever it takes.

[Julia Mandavale]

And you can see this because we see the episode that he's on, and like, Marla, the mom is like, DJ

[Guest/Interviewee]

was in a full on schizophrenic episode. You know, DJ, he was delusional. So he was talking about having $700 million in the bank and dating. Dating Rihanna and all that. And Dr. Phil was stoking that.

[Julia Mandavale]

And Dr. Phil is like, stoking that. And Marlo is like, he will. He wanted DJ to have a full schizophrenic episode on there.

[Patrick Hines]

And, like, mission accomplished would have been great tv.

[Julia Mandavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Because what happens is Phil starts doing a commercial in the middle of the episode talking about this amazing facility called Creative Care. It's in Malibu. Then he just starts parading out these people who work at Creative Care in Malibu. They're so incredible. Oh, my God, dj, You're going to get all the help you need. Like, all expenses paid. His care will be fully provided for for two years. For two years. And you're thinking like, holy shit. Like.

[Julia Mandavale]

And he agrees to go. And like, Dave and Marla in that moment are like, well, we felt like, okay, this was totally worth it.

[Patrick Hines]

This is why we did this.

[Julia Mandavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

No. So Marla says, that was the start of the nightmare.

[Julia Mandavale]

Yeah. And so, oh, by the way, this is where Evan, the reporter, she's walking through the office now. And this is the first time we see the stack of pencils in the back of her hair.

[Patrick Hines]

I could never do that. I just. It never worked for me. I used to look at the cool girls and envy. Like, how do you do that?

[Julia Mandavale]

But the numbers grow. She starts with like, three. We see her on the sub, later, the subway, the T in Boston. She's got new pencils stuck in her hair.

[Patrick Hines]

Let me ask you, does she have a tie or is the pencil holding it together?

[Julia Mandavale]

No, there's like a hair thing that. It's literally to hold the pencil, not to hold the bun.

[Patrick Hines]

I knew Someone in high school who could hold. Who can make the hot, like, suit. Like, nothing. Messy bun. That looks perfect.

[Julia Mandavale]

Oh my God.

[Patrick Hines]

With the pen.

[Julia Mandavale]

There's another shot reporter, Evan, getting into her car. She's got new pencils in the hair. And all I could think of was like, did she spend her days looking for her pencils?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, because they're up there.

[Julia Mandavale]

They're right. Like, is she constantly buying pencils and then just show, like, do you think she gets in the shower in the morning, takes the ponytail down and 40 pencils fall out?

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, I wish. If only we really are witches. Like, I can't even deny it anymore.

[Julia Mandavale]

But the thing is too, like, it's not a gimmick. Like, it's really who she is because she doesn't take them out for.

[Patrick Hines]

She'll need it later. She. It's good. They're always good to have the sheer

[Julia Mandavale]

number of pencils in her head.

[Patrick Hines]

I love that.

[Julia Mandavale]

I love it so much.

[Patrick Hines]

So let's talk about these facilities. Phil is always saying he's going to send so and so to the best fill in the blank treatment center there is. Whatever. Whatever you have, have. He's got the best one for it.

[Julia Mandavale]

Like, Evan shows us a whole bunch of them. Like he's connected to a bunch of them. And she says their original tips are the minor celebrity. Who is it?

[Patrick Hines]

Who it could be that, like, he's

[Julia Mandavale]

got to be profiting off this somehow. And Evan is like, we had the same question.

[Patrick Hines]

So it turns out after Evan looks into it, the situation is even worse than she thought.

[Julia Mandavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So let's talk about Anthony Haskins. He's the resource director, so he's in charge of setting you up at these treatment centers. Guess what his qualifications are.

[Guest/Interviewee]

I was told that he was in a band with one of Dr. Phil's sons, and Dr. Phil just gave him the job. He didn't have any background in therapy. There was really no experience that would warrant him being that person.

[Julia Mandavale]

He was in a band with Phil's son.

[Patrick Hines]

That's it. Zero.

[Julia Mandavale]

I didn't call him Dr. Phil again. It feels so good.

[Patrick Hines]

Zero experience in therapy or anything else. This guy's no idea what he's doing.

[Julia Mandavale]

No. But he's also part of the family, so nobody on set can question him. Even though he's like that asshole who just like shows up sometimes, walks in, walks around, like he owns. Owns the place.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Woof. So Anthony, what he really does, though, is like aggressively sell you on one of these places. Yeah, it's the Disneyland of treatment, the best of the best. You're gonna be so well taken care of. Like, DJs gonna go for two years. You don't have to worry about it. And then when he comes out, it's gonna be amazing. I mean, the stuff where you're sitting there being like, oh, yes, okay, this is my dream.

[Julia Mandavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So that ends up, of course, not being the case.

[Julia Mandavale]

No. And Marla, DJs mom, they are sold on this place. Like, DJ wants to go, he's gonna go. They feel he's. They're calling it the Disneyland of aftercare. Like, so he goes. And this. We take a break from that story for a second to meet Wendy McIntyre, who's a public safety advocate. She says, I'm the person who gets called when your child gets sent to rehab and then comes home in a body bag.

[Patrick Hines]

Wendy. Jesus Christ. At first I'm like, could you have softened that up a little bit? But no, the point is that this is what happens. And she does this because she lived it so she can do whatever the fuck she wants.

[Julia Mandavale]

This happened to her.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Mandavale]

Her son died. Her son Jared died in a sober living home in 2004. She. She said, I've become the Erin Brockovich of the treatment industry. So if you are holding yourself out

[Patrick Hines]

as this great place, but you're killing

[Julia Mandavale]

people, I'll be coming for you. I'm coming for you.

[Patrick Hines]

Good for her. Because she says this sober living home, that where her son died, is called the safe house. And she goes, ironically, yeah. Like, she's fucking over it. And when you really learn what these places are doing, you should be furious.

[Julia Mandavale]

I mean, it's very similar to what we were. We were just doing with that guy with the green juices.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God. Know idiot fam.

[Julia Mandavale]

DraftKings casino is changing the game with flex spins.

[Patrick Hines]

New players play $5 and get 1500 Flex spins 50 a day for 30 days.

[Julia Mandavale]

Come on. Then you choose how to play across your favorite games, like Huffing More Puff, Cash Eruption and more.

[Patrick Hines]

Download the app now and sign up with code TCO to claim 1500 Flex spins on your choice of slots.

[Julia Mandavale]

The crown is yours in partnership with Drop Kings casino gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER in Connecticut. Help is available for problem gambling. Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org Please play responsibly.

[Patrick Hines]

21/physically present in Connecticut, Michigan, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, West Virginia only. Void in Ontario eligibility restrictions apply. Non withdrawable spins issued as 50 spins per day for 30 days. Valid for select games only and expire each day after or 24 hours. See [e-mail] promos ends April 30th at 11:59pm Eastern Time.

[Julia Mandavale]

So we learn in 2013, Wendy gets a call by like a neighborhood group who basically are complaining that they live in this like family oriented culdesac but it's been invaded by a facility called Creative Care which apparently is like, like snapped up a bunch of homes in this little neighborhood and they're using it as a treatment facility.

[Patrick Hines]

And Creative Care is the number one place that Phil promotes. They the self proclaimed gold standard, the premier facility on drug treatment and mental health. Like they are the only place to go is how they're promoting themselves and how they're being promoted on Dr. Phil five times a week.

[Julia Mandavale]

And Wendy tells these neighbors who called her a bitch, get your camera and video everything. And then like the sheer number of vans pulling up and taking people away and body bags is staggering, Staggering. We see it, we see it happening.

[Patrick Hines]

And so Wendy goes right to Phil on social media, on Facebook.

[Julia Mandavale]

Wendy, right, come on.

[Patrick Hines]

And she's tagging him and she's like, stop sending people to Creative Care. Like, shame on you. You have to stop it. So now former clients, she goes viral or whatever. Former clients and employees of Creative Care see Wendy's posts calling out Phil and they reach out to Wendy and they're like, my God, thank you so much. Finally someone is saying something and we

[Julia Mandavale]

hear some of the messages to Wendy and they're saying like people are dying. They cannot retain staff. And Wendy, the people who work there are telling Wendy there is a direct connection to the Dr. Phil show through this guy, Anthony Haskins. Because what, Remember he's the aftercare guy, guy at Dr. Phil and he's the one that's getting DJ to go to this place and he's the one that's like selling all the people on this place. What Anthony is doing is he would come in and like do like a, like a little presentation to the staff and then be paid like we don't even know how much, but presumably a lot of money in cash. Here's how Creative Care operates, Anthony. They keep her on the payroll, right? They're kept away from clients. They don't have access to any clinical notes. They have no idea what's going on. They're just paying them as a consultant to make sure that the Dr. Phil referrals keep rolling in. That's the connection between the facility and the Dr. Phil show and what they're

[Patrick Hines]

doing just to, like, slow down on it. Like, there's no supervision at Creative Care. Like, Wendy learns that in four months there were two deaths at a house with no supervision. So, like, people who need help are just left to their own devices, and they're overdosing or harming themselves or some other awful tragedy that could have and should have been avoided. And it was promised it would be avoided.

[Julia Mandavale]

And, like, the whole thing is that, like, they're giving money to the Dr. Phil Show. And so the Dr. Phil show is, like. Is. Is promoting them on air as, like, the number one place, even though people are dying left and right.

[Patrick Hines]

How can, like, you look at someone who needs help that way and then just say, like, okay, go to this house by yourself with some. With a bunch of other people who are unmedicated or need help, who are using. Like, I know you live with yourself. I do that.

[Julia Mandavale]

No, because in two and a half weeks after DJ gets there, he's found on the side of the highway. He'd been kicked out of the program for, like, saying, like, dirty things or whatever. His mother tells us he walked from malibu to downtown LA. I mapped it. It's 28 miles before he got hit up by a cop on the side of the. Nobody called his family. Nobody let him know what was happening.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, how could you do that to him?

[Julia Mandavale]

They promised him two years. They kicked him out after two and

[Patrick Hines]

a half weeks or he would have wandered out. I'm just saying. Because he had a tendency to do that. That's why we're here in the first place. And, like, if you're leaving these people in homes, like, with each other.

[Julia Mandavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And no supervision at all. Like, what do we do? How can you do that?

[Julia Mandavale]

And so DJ is taken to jail. He's sentenced to the mental health ward and medicated. He's in prison for four months. And Marla, the mom, is trying to figure out how she can get him back into that treatment center, because the judge will only allow him to be released from prison if he will resume treatment.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, that is. So now they're stuck, right?

[Julia Mandavale]

Because they know that he's not getting good care there. But the only way they can get this guy. This guy was with a mental health

[Patrick Hines]

problem, their son, who they love, who they just want to help.

[Julia Mandavale]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

That's all they want.

[Julia Mandavale]

The only way they can get him out of jail is to send him back to this other place, which is, like, probably slightly less worse than jail.

[Patrick Hines]

And so the parents are calling the show, being like, yeah, hi. Remember all of those promises, like, you have to make good on them now.

[Julia Mandavale]

And, like, nobody cares. Like, he was there. He was one of five episodes that week. Nobody cares anymore. Nobody is returning her calls.

[Patrick Hines]

And they already got the money from Dr. Phil or the promotion they want, so what do they.

[Julia Mandavale]

And the facility agrees to take him back, but they if only if he'll get the injection, that will give him his meds for a month. But the parents have to now buy the injection from the facility. So this promise of free care for two years is totally out the window. He's back for three days and he's kicked out again.

[Guest/Interviewee]

They start talking to me about how much it was costing to feed him and we can't do this. And he. He's. He's inappropriate with. And I say, well, this is what you do. At that point, it is clear to me this whole thing was a facade.

[Julia Mandavale]

The show promised this was gonna be free for two years.

[Patrick Hines]

They said he was saying inappropriate things. And I'm like, so what? He's there for treatment?

[Julia Mandavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

I thought you were the gold standard. You're the best of the best. Who cares?

[Julia Mandavale]

He has schizophrenia.

[Patrick Hines]

Of course he's gonna say some shit.

[Julia Mandavale]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

Deal with it. That's your job to deal with it.

[Julia Mandavale]

But, like, this is when it becomes clear to the family that, like, oh, they don't care. That two year thing was just a thing that they said on air to make them look good. We have no recourse to, like, out them to the public that. That we didn't get those two years. My son is not being treated there.

[Patrick Hines]

And Dave and Marlo were already like, oh, we know that they're, like, going to exploit our son, but we're going to take what we can get to get him help. And they didn't care about that. Yeah, but it was even worse. Like, they. They were walking in, being like, we know what the show is. And then, like, once they really got behind the curtain, they're like, oh, it's a million times worse than we could have imagined.

[Julia Mandavale]

Yeah. And so now we go to Boston, where we meet this guy Nick. And like, the long and the short of this guy Nick is at, like, he went through one of these horrible places called the Kids of North Jersey in 1997.

[Patrick Hines]

Like a torture chamber.

[Julia Mandavale]

Torture chamber. He's watching, like, young girls being raped. He watching, like, physical abuse, emotional abuse. When he gets out, he realizes that this is an epidemic, that there are places like this all across the country, and that as a survivor, he feels like it's his job to sort of do something about it. And then when he realizes that Dr. Phil is not only sending people to these places, but he's promoting them on his show, he's like, I gotta get in touch with them and let them know in case they don't know that where they're sending them, they're bad places.

[Patrick Hines]

Because not only are people being abused, they're dying.

[Julia Mandavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And this guy Nick, he talks the talk and he walks the walk because he was speaking on Capitol hill in, like, 2009. Like, he is getting shit done. So when he goes on the show, because Phil. Nick is like, clearly Phil doesn't know.

[Julia Mandavale]

Right. That must be the answer. Dr. Phil, the most trusted man in America.

[Patrick Hines]

There's no way Oprah would, like, stamp approve this episode and all this stuff. And, like, he wouldn't be working with this play. He must not know. I, Nick, because I know about this. I'm going to go on and tell him about it and just, like, let

[Julia Mandavale]

him know and, like, the show, like, they say they're thrilled to have him. Now we get audio of him being on the show.

[Patrick Hines]

I don't know where we get this.

[Julia Mandavale]

I think Nick recorded it.

[Patrick Hines]

Good.

[Julia Mandavale]

I think it was like a phone in his pocket. Because we do see clips of the Dr. Phil show in other places in the documentary, but we don't see it here.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Mandavale]

So I'm sure there's like, a fair use thing where they can use, like, short clips of it in other moments. And it felt to me like Nick must have had, like, his. Like, I'm going to record this on my own, and then it's mine.

[Patrick Hines]

Because what happens is Phil. Nick is like, hey, all of this horrible stuff is happening. So Phil turns us into an infomercial to talk about how bad Nick's place was and how amazing Phil's places are and how you should just, like, trust Phil because he vets these places. And then he says the thing, you know, I hate where he's like, with every barrel, there are some bad apples. And I'm like, well, why don't you do an expose on them, Phil? Like, what? You can expose them. You have the power to do good here. Why aren't you doing that?

[Julia Mandavale]

And also the one of the places that Phil is specifically saying, like, this is one of the good ones. Nick is like, six people died there last year, and Phil is now threatening him legally.

[Guest/Interviewee]

Listen, be very careful about what you say, because when you say that about programs that have been properly vetted and you make defamatory statements, that you can't support. You will be held accountable for that. And you're forewarned. Be very careful about what you say. You will be held accountable. And if you watch the version that

[Julia Mandavale]

air this was all cut out, he's saying, you cannot make accusations like that. They're going to come for you. People are going to like. You can hear the anger in Phil's voice that he's like, being exposed. And he knows it. And in the moment, Nick now knows that Phil knew. And Nick is not backing down. And Nick is like. He's talking over me. He's not letting me talk. But you hear Nick getting his points in.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Mandavale]

And then when the episode is aired, none of that is on it.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. But we have this, like, kind of

[Julia Mandavale]

shitty audio, which is amazing that we have. I'm like. I love that. He's like, someday someone's going to make a documentary about this and I'm going to have it. I'm guessing it's his audio.

[Patrick Hines]

It could also just be like, some whistleblower PA who hated him and was just recording stuff or just like, took that out of the editing room in case. Who knows?

[Julia Mandavale]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

But everyone, like, a lot of people hated this guy. And a lot of people had reasons to want to have a little. A little stockpile of evidence against him. So I wouldn't be surprised.

[Julia Mandavale]

We're back with Evan on the T.9 pencils in her hair. I counted.

[Patrick Hines]

That's.

[Julia Mandavale]

No, I don't know. My notes say nine.

[Patrick Hines]

Is that right?

[Julia Mandavale]

I don't know. There was a lot of pencils in the back of her hair.

[Patrick Hines]

You counted nine?

[Julia Mandavale]

She's just holding the tea. There's pencils sticking out, and she doesn't care who sees it. I love her.

[Patrick Hines]

I love it. But did you really count?

[Julia Mandavale]

Well, that's what my notes say. I don't remember. It was early this morning. I got up at 3:30.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, great. So she's trying to talk to people who are on the show, but she's having a problem because everyone's terrified. And this is a real fear because Phil loves suing people to shut them up. So we learn about this woman, Leah Rothman, who is not here for the doc. No, but she was.

[Julia Mandavale]

But her deposition is.

[Patrick Hines]

She's a longtime producer of the show, and she sued the show for false imprisonment, intentional inflection of emotional distress, and whistleblower retaliation.

[Julia Mandavale]

This story makes me so angry.

[Patrick Hines]

Leah says it and, like, one of the other staffers who have, like, fake names, we don't meet them like they're confirming this?

[Julia Mandavale]

Yeah.

[Documentary Narrator/Reporter]

And it talks in particular about this meeting where she and a whole bunch of people, she says 300 who work on the Dr. Phil show were put in a single room. And Dr. Dr. Phil entered the room and demanded the doors be locked.

[Patrick Hines]

There was a meeting where 300 employees of the show were put in one single room. And Phil comes in, like, making all these demands, like, demanding the door is locked. And he has security guards in there for intimidation.

[Julia Mandavale]

He's telling them nobody can leave. I've got security guards at every exit

[Patrick Hines]

until I know who did it. And you have 10 minutes to come forward. And everyone's like, did what?

[Julia Mandavale]

Right?

[Patrick Hines]

What are you talking about? It turns out someone was trying to sell information to the Daily Mail. But of course, because they're evil and Phil's evil. They're in bed and they're in cahoots. So the Daily Mail was like, hey, Phil, you have a leak in your staff?

[Julia Mandavale]

Yes. And Phil apparently knew who the leak was and wanted them to, like, out themselves. Locking the staff in a conference room, that is. That is crazy.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Yeah. And so he was doing this knowing who the leak is to. This is like a fear and intimidation tactic to scare the shit out of everyone. Also, where is this room that can fit 300 people? The studio.

[Julia Mandavale]

I don't even think Evan believes that number. She's like. She Sundays it was 300. Like, I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Where is it?

[Julia Mandavale]

Who knows?

[Patrick Hines]

Anyway, every. I believe every last one of you who was there, by the way, but gets sued.

[Julia Mandavale]

Dr. Phil sues her.

[Patrick Hines]

And also she. They say that she made a recording of something. They don't tell us what it is. I know what it is.

[Julia Mandavale]

What is it?

[Patrick Hines]

I googled it. She recorded with her iPhone A nine second clip of Dr. Phil from a larger archive of unaired footage from the show in an attempt to document an example of his conduct. So she was just like in the editing room and took her phone and

[Julia Mandavale]

do we know what it was?

[Patrick Hines]

It was just him, like, yelling on a flight or something. So it was him, like, not looking great, but she, like, captured something on her iPhone. I'm like, I don't know why we couldn't know that.

[Julia Mandavale]

It's not, we see you, we love you, keep recording everything.

[Patrick Hines]

But the production company sued her for copyright infringement and won.

[Julia Mandavale]

It's just like. But that's why people don't whistleblow.

[Patrick Hines]

That's why.

[Julia Mandavale]

You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Phil, especially because he has a zillion dollars and Oprah behind him and he sues Anyone and everybody. And he wins.

[Julia Mandavale]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So Evan finally finds a source who will talk to her.

[Julia Mandavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And the source tells her about the doctor in air quotes. Phil path to recovery. And it's this like virtual reality goggle system.

[Julia Mandavale]

This is the most like 2011. I don't know what year this actually was, but he like made a virtual

[Documentary Narrator/Reporter]

reality where like a person with addiction puts on the 3D goggles. And there inside the 3D goggles is Dr. Phil.

[Guest/Interviewee]

I've put them in a bar situation. So while they're in rehab, they're sitting talking to me in a bar. Now they're sitting. And this is actually in my backyard.

[Julia Mandavale]

You could be in rehab, but sit at a bar with Dr. Phil to talk about your problems.

[Patrick Hines]

You like put on the goggles and Phil shows up and like yells at you until you're better or whatever.

[Julia Mandavale]

This is just like one of his cockamamie ideas. He's got another one later.

[Patrick Hines]

But all it is is like, it's a way, it's like a go between for the money that he's making from all of these facilities.

[Julia Mandavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

So it's like this place called Inspirations. He's like, okay, if you buy my goggles, I'll talk about you on the show. Because it's like, oh, this is the place that has Phil. Yeah, the Phil goggles.

[Julia Mandavale]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

Like what happens is that like Phil is one company, the Goggles are another company, the facility is another company. So there's no like line from A to B about how money's crossing hands, but that's how he's doing it. It's like a money laundering.

[Julia Mandavale]

I was like, how much of these Goggles were they? Goggles, $9 million each. Like how are they expensive enough to make Phil enough money to be this fudgeing shady about?

[Patrick Hines]

Like, you don't need to be Evan or Colombo to figure out that like this is what's happening. And also this is Inspirations place is a fucking torture chamber nightmare.

[Julia Mandavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Because over a two year period police were called 180 times about missing kids. That's almost twice a week.

[Julia Mandavale]

But what that tells me is that like no, nobody cares. Like it's just a, it's a front for people to send their troubled kids and pay $15,000 a month or whatever. You know what I mean? Like, no one's actually trying to treat anybody in these places.

[Patrick Hines]

Wendy the advocates here, however, and she's fighting against that creative care place.

[Julia Mandavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Because the state suspends their license in 2019. And Wendy calls up the show. And she's like, this place doesn't have a license. You can't mention them on the air. Guess what? They continue to do it anyway. Which I guess tracks for someone who let his license lapse and then still goes by Dr. Phil. And, like, he doesn't really care about all. But for the sake of doing something, he fires Anthony, his son's bandmate, because

[Julia Mandavale]

he told Anthony, you can't go in there with your PowerPoint and collect $15,000 every weekend anymore. And Anthony still.

[Patrick Hines]

And he was like, okay, Jake's dead, or whatever, and then did it anyway.

[Julia Mandavale]

Anthony, you had, like, for you, the best job on the planet. Like, biting the hand that feeds you. What is wrong with you?

[Patrick Hines]

Like, whatever. So as we're wrapping up, we're back with DJs par parents.

[Guest/Interviewee]

Finally, after probably over maybe 10 to 12 years, our son, now he's in a full service program doing pretty good right now.

[Patrick Hines]

So they fought for 12 years to get him the help he needs. He is finally in a full service program, and they tell us that he's doing well.

[Julia Mandavale]

Which I'm like, can you give us the name of that program? Because I feel like, like, that's the

[Patrick Hines]

one that people need to do ones, right?

[Julia Mandavale]

Because obviously they can't afford it. Somehow you got him in there and, like, you know, like, what'd you do? Like, I want the Dave and Marla documentary. Give me that documentary.

[Patrick Hines]

But their son is, like, absolute a victim. All of these people are like, Emily, Marcy, Angelique, the parents, like Marla and Dave. And, like, to the surprise of no one. However, Phil has been a grifter his entire life.

[Julia Mandavale]

I mean, like, whatever. Starting back in the 1970s, he was selling fake memberships to a thing called Grecian Health Spa. 150 to 700 bucks a month in the 70s.

[Patrick Hines]

A lot of money in the 70s.

[Julia Mandavale]

They run it for a couple of years, then, like, it just disappears. Like, you're buying a membership to this thing that doesn't really exist, and then it just vanishes because it's the 70s. There's no way to fudgeing trace this stuff.

[Patrick Hines]

And so he was doing that, and, like, it's in the paper. And I'm like, so Oprah's the either wildly irresponsible and doesn't vet the people she unleashes onto the world, or she doesn't care because she was making money, too.

[Julia Mandavale]

Can we talk about Shape Up?

[Patrick Hines]

Sure.

[Julia Mandavale]

Shape up is the other thing that Phil the Pretender did later.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, right.

[Julia Mandavale]

It was A weight loss supplement. And the marketing was it's 22 pills that you take every day, depending on if you're apple shaped or pear shaped. What is it?

[Patrick Hines]

He pretending to be a therapist? Why is he hawking dial diet pills?

[Julia Mandavale]

But then he gets. He has to pay $10 million in a settlement because as Evan says, it doesn't do anything.

[Patrick Hines]

Do anything. But also, like, this is when Oprah's company was produc his show in 2003. Oprah.

[Julia Mandavale]

Can you.

[Patrick Hines]

What the fuck?

[Julia Mandavale]

Imagine taking 22 pills. What were in those?

[Patrick Hines]

But again, what qualifications does he have to do this?

[Julia Mandavale]

Zero. I know. So in the end, Evan's story publishes and they do it over two days. And it's like when the story comes out, it's like the biggest story in the world. Cause it's fucking Dr. Phil.

[Guest/Interviewee]

Yeah.

[Julia Mandavale]

Like, people were starting to get a sense that he was kind of a dick, but people still, like, loved watching it.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Mandavale]

So the story comes out. It's all over the media. It's like the biggest story in the world. Evans. And they're. So they do two stories and they want to do a bunch more. Like they've got all of these victims, all of these producers that have come to them with information. But Phil's attorneys send a letter demanding that they retract the entire story. And they attached a letter to the owner of the Boston Globe. And Evan's like, I've never seen this before.

[Documentary Narrator/Reporter]

This was the only time in my career this ever happened. But the Globe told us there was no appetite for a legal fight. And so that was it. The project got shut down.

[Patrick Hines]

The Boston Globe caved. I. My jaw was on the ground. Your spotlight.

[Julia Mandavale]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Why are you being so fucking spineless?

[Julia Mandavale]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Pulitzer Prize winning spotlight. What are you doing? The Boston Globe is backing down.

[Julia Mandavale]

Since when? And Evan says, the Globe said we don't have an appetite for illegal fight.

[Patrick Hines]

I was floored. And they caved.

[Julia Mandavale]

It broke her heart too. Like, I think that. I think that it really shook her sense of, like, people doing the right thing in the world, you know?

[Patrick Hines]

Yes. And so, like, in the wake of this article, though, like, so many other reports have come out, there are just so many allegations against him, like sexual harassment, defamation, abuse in the workplace. What he did to Britney Spears back in the day. What he did to Shelley back in the day.

[Julia Mandavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, look all this shit up. It's terrible. He has tons of lawsuits and like, like all of this shit. And like, I just can't believe. Because the show ends in 2023. And I'm like, he was on the air for 25 years.

[Julia Mandavale]

I know, I know. He launches, by the way, with his wife Robin. That's her in the picture. They launch Merit street Media in 2024 and 2025. It files for bankruptcy.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Mandavale]

And accused by a production partners of quote, years long fraudulent scheme. Like, he's been doing this since the 70s.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Mandavale]

Oprah, you know, I know.

[Patrick Hines]

I am so like sick and tired of no accountability for that with between him and Dr. O. Shit and trauma that has been unleashed is really like, needs to be discussed. And like, where is she?

[Julia Mandavale]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Where is she?

[Julia Mandavale]

She's out there. She's. I mean, I see. I see her like every day on the TikTok.

[Patrick Hines]

Has anyone ever asked her, like, what's up with Dr. Phil? Like, did you know?

[Julia Mandavale]

I don't think Oprah puts herself in positions where she's not the highest authority in the room. Like, I don't imagine, like, who would Oprah sit down with for like the heavy hitting interview?

[Patrick Hines]

Well, that. I find that to be a problem.

[Julia Mandavale]

I couldn't agree more. But I think it's intentional because I think especially in this day, in like, in this day and age with Dr. Oz a major part the federal government, like, I think there would be a lot of hard questions for her.

[Patrick Hines]

So she's just hiding behind her billions

[Julia Mandavale]

of dollars and Gayle King.

[Patrick Hines]

Great. Great.

[Julia Mandavale]

Oh, girl. We did Dirty rotten scandals, the Dr. Phil show, episodes one and two.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. That show. By a guy named Phil.

[Julia Mandavale]

By a guy named Phil. Join us on the Patreon Fam. We've got full video episodes now, starting with the Rocky Mountain Mortician murders. So fun, like video. You're going to find us there. What's the other thing?

[Patrick Hines]

YouTube and Patreon. Yeah.

[Julia Mandavale]

Oh, yeah. So also find us on the YouTube. We've got over 250,000 subscribers.

[Guest/Interviewee]

Hi.

[Patrick Hines]

Hi, everybody.

[Julia Mandavale]

Come hang out with us. It's so fun. I love our YouTube videos.

[Patrick Hines]

Yep.

[Julia Mandavale]

What are we doing next?

[Patrick Hines]

Wild Boys, Strangers in town.

[Julia Mandavale]

What is that?

[Patrick Hines]

Do you know about this? It's on Paramount Plus.

[Julia Mandavale]

Oh, yes. I listened to this podcast when it came out years ago.

[Patrick Hines]

The two brothers, like, emerged from the woods in Canada and claiming they were raised off the grid. And so this is the story of what happened and how they got there and all sudden of a. The insanity.

[Julia Mandavale]

A wild story.

[Patrick Hines]

It is crazy and infuriating. So come join us, won't you?

[Julia Mandavale]

All right, we'll stay tuned for the trailer for that.

[Patrick Hines]

All right, we love you Love you.

[Julia Mandavale]

Bye.

[Patrick Hines]

Except Phil. Bye.

[Julia Mandavale]

Except Phil. Bye.

[Patrick Hines]

They were dubbed the Wild Boys, so called Wild Boys after they caught the country's attention with an unbelievable tale.

[Julia Mandavale]

Was a definite split in the community.

[Guest/Interviewee]

One was finding out who they were. And then there was a group of people, including myself, that were trying to help them. The younger one was extremely thin.

[Julia Mandavale]

The situation was getting dire.

[Guest/Interviewee]

People started feeling unsafe.

In my mind, I'm like, oh, my gosh. They've been with my kids. You know, they know where I live. They'd never been to school.

[Julia Mandavale]

There's no driving records, criminal records, nothing tangible.

[Guest/Interviewee]

What do you know about your parents?

[Julia Mandavale]

Are they criminals?

[Guest/Interviewee]

Maybe this is all lies people want.

[Julia Mandavale]

I was getting more and more frustrated. It was my job to get to the bottom of it.

[Guest/Interviewee]

Are they criminals?

[Julia Mandavale]

What are they hiding from?

[Guest/Interviewee]

Maybe they're in a cult.

It's not my job to tell you the truth.

Something is wrong. The police were looking for us.

[Julia Mandavale]

After months and months and months, we got this email that changed everything.

[Guest/Interviewee]

That's where it started to be like, I think they know a little more than what they're telling us, Sam.