495: Wild Boys: Strangers in Town

Summary

---

True Crime Obsessed

Episode 495: Wild Boys: Strangers in Town

Originally aired: April 21, 2026

---

Episode Overview

This episode recaps the two-part documentary "Wild Boys: Strangers in Town," which tells the bizarre real-life story of two teenage brothers—dubbed "the Wild Boys"—who appeared in Vernon, British Columbia, in 2003 claiming to have grown up off the grid in the wilderness. The hosts, Patrick Hinds and Gillian Pensavalle, deliver their signature blend of humor, skepticism, and empathy as they revisit the events, dig into the town’s divided reaction, and ultimately expose the truth behind the brothers’ outlandish claims.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction: Encino Man Comparisons and Early Suspicions

• Encino Man Reference (02:16): The hosts immediately draw a comedic parallel between the story and the movie "Encino Man," noting how odd it is that the boys claim to know about pop culture reference points while purportedly growing up in the wild.
  “This dramatic retelling of Encino Man, I’m like, look, I am here for the shirtless Brendan Fraser in the first two minutes.” – Gillian (02:48)

• Setting the Scene (03:00): Vernon is described as a “town frozen in time,” surrounded by wilderness—a detail both hosts find ripe for ribbing.

• First Reactions: Early reactions from townspeople (and the hosts) reveal a community divided between wanting to help and fearing deception.

2. Enter the "Wild Boys" and Vernon’s Generosity

• Tammy’s Involvement (04:25): Local mom Tammy Ryder sees the boys—Tom (older) and Will (younger, visibly malnourished)—and immediately wants to help, embodying the “Canadian neighborliness” trope. “She leaves an envelope full of quarters and a note: ‘Here’s my number. Call me. I can help you.’” – Patrick (05:13)

• Their Story (09:19): Tom and Will claim to have grown up off-grid, raised to "never grow up" and avoid the outside world, invoking Neverland and Peter Pan themes—a claim Gillian quickly labels magical thinking, not life guidance.

3. First Red Flags & Skepticism Mounts

• Royal Canadian Mounted Police—The “Wet Blanket Police” (11:52): Officer Henry is immediately suspicious, finding no records of the boys in any official systems. “Just because somebody tells you something, that doesn’t mean it’s real. I need facts.” – Officer Henry, as paraphrased by Patrick (11:59)

• Obvious Contradictions: The boys seem oddly adept with technology (computers, payphones) and pop culture for supposed feral children.

4. The Town Divides & Media Attention Grows

• Divided Community (12:58): The town splits—some rally to support Tammy and the boys, others are convinced they're scammers.

• Historical Context (13:43): The hosts note that Vernon previously attracted American draft dodgers, so long-term off-grid living, while unlikely, isn’t totally implausible.

• Media Frenzy (26:13): A local newspaper story, orchestrated by Tammy to help get the boys ID, goes viral, attracting national scrutiny.

5. The Brothers’ Diet & Will’s Declining Health

• Fruitarianism Revealed (22:04): Will is not just vegan—he’s an extreme fruitarian, refusing even root vegetables. Both hosts express alarm. “I mean, it really sounds like disordered eating.” – Gillian (23:04)
  “It’s no nutrients, lots of fruit decay, at the very least you will suffer severe malnutrition, which is what we’re seeing with Will.” – Gillian (23:06)

• Will’s Health Crisis: Tammy and others notice Will’s rapid decline; attempts to feed him are fruitless (pun intended).

6. Authorities Step In

• Mental Health Intervention (35:43): As Will’s health deteriorates, police apprehend him under the mental health act. Officer Henry handles it insensitively, joking about force-feeding Will cheeseburgers.
• Hospitalization & Media Interest (37:19): Will’s admission draws national TV producers (e.g., CBC’s “Disclosure”) eager to unmask the mystery of the “Wild Boys.”

7. The Truth Unravels

• Identity Exposed (43:46): The big reveal—Tom Green and Will Green are actually Kyle and Rowan Horne from California. Their “raised-in-the-wild” story was a fabrication. “It was all an act, a game—a survival act.” – Tom/Kyle (43:53)
  “He was just, like, numb to everything. And he didn’t seem like it mattered. It was upsetting... you came to us. And that is true.” – Tammy, on confronting Tom/Kyle (44:05)

• Parents Found (45:15): Reporter Timothy makes contact with their mother in California; the parents are nonchalant, even detached, about their sons' disappearance.

8. Backstory: Dysfunction, Conspiracies, and Neglect

• Family Dynamics: The Hornes are revealed as deeply immersed in conspiracy theories (flat earth, anti-vaccine, distrust of medicine). “There’s a whole out-there fringe group who think the Earth is flat. I’m pretty much in that camp.” – Roger, the father (48:47)

• Will’s Medical Trauma: Will’s childhood injury (splenectomy) and paranoia about vaccines kickstart his obsessive preoccupation with health and extreme diets (52:03).

• Neglect & Enabling: The parents allow Will to deceive doctors by hiding weights in his clothing for weigh-ins, and recount hospitalizations with minimal concern.
  “I’m just hearing a lot of neglect here.” – Patrick (54:15)
  “The mom was maybe ok with him dying as long as he could treat himself on his own terms… which is crazy.” – Gillian (64:00)

9. Fallout & Aftermath

• Deportation & Recovery (64:00): The brothers are deported after being identified; Will is finally hospitalized and gains weight, but shows no gratitude to anyone.

• Long-term Outcomes: Rowan, diagnosed with orthorexia, is obsessed with longevity and the idea of not dying—creating unsettling online content and showing ongoing signs of mental illness.
  “He is severely not okay.” – Gillian (67:15)

• Parental Enabling Persists: The parents express pride in Rowan’s online pursuits rather than recognition of his crisis.

• Summing Up: The hosts reflect on the sadness and absurdity, noting that while Rowan is the most fragile, the entire story is one of mental health crises, poor parenting, and a community’s best (but tainted) intentions.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Early Suspicions:
  “How do they know pop culture if they grew up in the forest? How do you know about Tinker Hell?” – Gillian (12:34)

• On Community Response:
  “These are people, they’re human beings who need help, and I think Tammy’s doing it exactly the right way—helping with a reasonable dose of skepticism.” – Patrick (17:46)

• On the Big Reveal:
  “Well, guess what: Everything falls apart. They’re completely full of shit, and they have been since the beginning.” – Gillian (39:19)
  “My thing about this is, I’m just not surprised… It’s kind of a nothing-burger of a story.” – Patrick (44:32)

• On Parental Neglect:
  “They allowed him to put on weights to get on the scale. Does that sound like helping?” – Gillian (55:30)

• On the Documentary’s Overall Impact:
  “All you need is that small group of three people being like, ‘Me too, bro.’” – Patrick, on echo chamber effects (67:42)

• On Parenting and Outcome:
  “Now Rowan is diagnosed with orthorexia, which is basically an obsession with what the person believes is healthy eating, because this is not healthy eating.” – Patrick (64:19)

---

Important Timestamps

• 02:16 – Encino Man comparison, origin of the “wild” narrative
• 04:25 – Introduction of Tammy, her efforts to help
• 11:52 & 18:12 – Police skepticism; Officer Henry’s involvement and attitude
• 22:04 – Fruitarianism explanation and health crisis for Will
• 26:13 – The story goes public, community divides deepen
• 35:43 – Police intervention under mental health act
• 43:46 – Real identities revealed; the elaborate ruse collapses
• 45:15 – Parental reactions and backstory, flat earth ties
• 52:03 – Medical trauma, anti-vax paranoia, origin of Will’s eating disorder
• 57:31 & 59:03 – The brothers’ flight to Canada, the parents’ questionable involvement and responses
• 64:00 & 65:19 – Deportation and aftermath; lack of gratitude
• 66:06 – Rowan’s obsession with immortality, disturbing online behavior

---

Final Thoughts

The hosts close with a mix of exasperation and empathy, skewering the parents’ conspiratorial attitudes and lack of engagement while acknowledging the depth of the boys’ mental health crises. They highlight how a community’s good intentions were exploited, and how neglect, misinformation, and untreated illness created a slow-motion disaster. The episode’s trademark humor surfaces especially in their riffs about Encino Man, Tinker Hell, and dubious “flat earth pizza.”

---

Next Episode Teaser:
The hosts will cover "The Skincare Queen and the Hitman," another wild story about lies, deception, and crime—as always, with their unique comedic twist.

---

Join the Conversation:

• Facebook Group: True Crime Obsessed Podcast Discussion Group
• Discord Server (for episode threads, animal photos, and more!)
• Links in the show notes

---

Transcript

[A]

With VRBoCare, help is always ready before, during and after your stay. We've planned for the plot twists, so support is always available because a great trip starts with peace of mind.

[B]

Is it weird that I have never wanted a piece of fruit more? Is that bad? Not good or bad?

[A]

We know a couple people in this documentary are never getting scurvy and I feel very good about that.

[B]

But they're just getting everything else.

[A]

I know.

[B]

My goodness.

[A]

Hi, Julia Betavali.

[B]

Hello. Patrick Hines, fam.

[A]

Join our Facebook group. It's the True Crime Obsessed podcast discussion group. Today, as we record this, the NorCal TCO Facebook meetup group turns two.

[B]

Come on. Happy birthday, NorCal. How cute.

[A]

We also have a Discord.

[B]

We do have a Discord. It's a Discord server.

[A]

Discord server.

[B]

And there are channels within that server and everyone's really nice and fun and it's just like channels about the episodes, like Patreon episodes and regular episodes, but also channels about random true crime stuff you want to talk about or like animal photos.

[A]

It's like somebody start a channel about surfing. Just start it.

[B]

Great.

[A]

I'll jump in.

[B]

That's the thing. Cause you can.

[A]

Because you can.

[B]

That's the beauty of it.

[A]

Links to either. They're both in the show notes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What are we talking about today?

[B]

We are talking about Wild Boys, Strangers in Town. This is two episodes on Paramount plus, but we're doing it in one. Cause we can.

[A]

Cause we can.

[B]

Yeah. They were dubbed the Wild Boys, so called Wild Boys, after they caught the country's attention with an unbelievable tale.

[C]

It was a definite split in the community.

[D]

One was finding out who they were and then there was a group of people, including myself, that were trying to help them. The younger one was extremely thin.

[A]

The situation was getting dire. People started feeling unsafe.

[D]

In my mind, I'm like, oh, my gosh, they've been with my kids. You know, they know where I live. They'd never been to school.

[A]

There's no driving records, criminal records, nothing tangible.

[B]

What do you know about your parents? Are they criminals?

[D]

Maybe this is all lies.

[A]

People wanted answers. I was getting more and more frustrated. It was my job to get to

[C]

the bottom of it.

[D]

Are they criminal?

[A]

Hiding from.

[D]

Maybe they're in a cult.

[C]

It's not my job to tell you the truth.

[B]

So we start off with a very serious retelling of the cinematic masterpiece that is Encino Man.

[A]

Oh, yes.

[B]

And if you don't know about Encino Man.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Pauly Shore and Sean Astin discover Brendan Fraser.

[A]

I forgot that Pauly Shore was in that.

[B]

Yeah. He's, like, frozen in a block of ice in Sean Astin's backyard, I think. And they thaw him out and they name him a link, and then, like, hijinks ensue as they, like, acclimate him to 1992, California.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Guy is explaining that walking out of the wilderness, like, this is how he felt. And I'm, like, super crazy that you knew about Encino.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

In the wilderness. But this dramatic retelling of Encino Man, I'm like, look, I am here for the shirtless Brendan Fraser in the first two minutes of this, for sure. Let's do it.

[A]

There's a lot of clues that not all is what it seems from the beginning. So we're in a place called Vernon, British Columbia. They say it's a town frozen in time. They say, quote, I was like, is

[B]

that an Encino Man? My friends? I see you, Sean, the mayor.

[A]

It's a caveman frozen in time.

[C]

The best analogy, my. It was. It was an AM radio station in an FM stereo world.

[A]

But it was a great place to

[C]

visit and an even better place to live.

[B]

The media didn't give a shit about us, but it was a great place to live and visit and be the mayor of.

[A]

They also say, like, it's very remote, like, two miles in any direction. You're in the primeval wilderness. Prime evil.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Are there wildebeests in there?

[B]

I'm like, well, the wilderness.

[A]

Or woolly mammoths. What are the ones that are gone? The woolly mammoths.

[B]

Woolly mammoths, yeah.

[A]

What's a wildebeest? We did this already.

[B]

Wildebeest is what killed Mufasa and the like.

[A]

And they're still with us.

[B]

They're still with us.

[A]

As far as we know, they are. Today. We don't know. Look, it's. It's. It's only Tuesday. It's already been a long week. We don't know anything could happen.

[B]

They killed Mufasa. But to be fair, the whole scar did it on purpose. He, like, spooked them and made them start running. Like, it's not like they were like, it's Mufasa. Let's get him.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

I can't talk about the line, okay? It's too sad. Let me tell you, though, Tammy Ryder's here. She gets shit done.

[A]

Tammy, ride or die. Am I right?

[B]

100%.

[A]

I just came up with that forbidden better or worse.

[B]

You know what I mean?

[A]

That's exactly right. For better or worse. Because I do want to say. They say that, like, we're in Canada. And they say, as Canadians, there's a tendency to help your neighbor, to help your community. Like, it's very. Come from. Away from my Broadway people.

[B]

Yes, yes, yes.

[A]

You know what I mean? Welcome to the Rock.

[B]

And so it's 2003. Tammy's 34. She says these are her words. Her life was her kids.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

She was helping out in the classrooms and all the activities, and she was with her kids at the library. And she sees these two boys.

[D]

The younger one was extremely thin and looked sick, and he was just following behind the older one. I remember thinking something was wrong.

[A]

The younger one is, like, following around the older one. That dynamic seems to be important in this as well, and we hear that

[B]

about a million times.

[A]

Yeah. And she learns that they're living behind this small store in town in a tent in the woods, and she finds out that they're coming into the store to use the payphone a lot. And Tammy, Ride or die. I'm obsessed with her because she's like, I want to help these kids. God damn it. I'm gonna.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

She leaves an envelope full of quarters and a note that's like, here's my number. Call me. Like, I can help you. Can you imagine?

[B]

Right. And they, of course, at first, like, I didn't know any. You listened to the podcast?

[D]

I did.

[A]

The podcast came out many years ago, and I kind of forgot what the whole story was here. But, yeah, I mean, like, that is. This is a lady, like, really putting her Canadian where her mouth is like, you know what I mean? Like, really here to help her neighbor.

[B]

And they call right away again. They know Encino man had use payphones in the wilderness. And they called right away, and they're like, tammy, girl, wait. Do you.

[A]

Do you not trust that what they say happened is what happened?

[B]

The minute we're talking about Encino man, first you have my attention. And number two, I was like, sums up. And then the pay phone we get thrown in. So. But, like, obviously, they accept Tammy's help. Who would?

[A]

Right? Of course. Of course. And so Tammy comes down and meets them, brings them food. They're very grateful, but, like, also loving Tammy because now she's putting her mom where her mouth is because she brought them, like, Ring Dings and Ho Hos and Pringles.

[B]

And they didn't want any of.

[A]

They didn't want any of that. They only wanted, like, healthy food.

[B]

And she says, you know, they're, like, painfully shy. And the younger one was about 15 or 16 years old, very skinny, looked sick again. We'll hear that a million times.

[A]

I trade my kid for a ring ding right now. Look. Ho ho.

[B]

It's 4:32. That's the snack hour.

[A]

Totally. The husband, the kid and the dog for a ring ding and a ho ho. I'll get the dog back.

[B]

Let's like put him on hold for a second.

[A]

But it'll go to a night. I'm going to re home my entire family. But it's going to go. They're going to go somewhere nice.

[B]

And then what happens in 30 seconds when the snacks are gone and you're looking around, seeing a podcast co host.

[A]

I waited for a second for a snowball girl. Chime is back. Look, fam, Chime is changing the way people bank. This is not like your old school banks that charge you overdraft fees or monthly fees. They also aren't charging Feees for their ATMs. It's incredible.

[B]

Yeah. This is fee free banking built for you.

[A]

Yeah. So listen, Chime members can benefit from up to 1,150 bucks in annual rewards

[B]

for fee free and direct deposit Unlocks the most rewarding way to bank at Chime.

[A]

Chime is rated 5 stars by USA Today for customer service. Real humans 24. 7. You cannot put a price on that.

[B]

I have to say, nowadays.

[A]

I know. Yeah. Literally.

[B]

Yeah. And you're not just switching banks. You're upgrading to America's number one choice for banking with a Chime checking account.

[A]

Plus summertime tis the season to travel fam. You get premium travel perks like airport lounge access and 24.7Travel Concierge included with your time card. That airport lounge situation will change your life.

[B]

It's true. They also have Spot Me, which lets you overdraft up to 200 bucks fee free.

[A]

This would have changed my life in my 20s. I'm obsessed. I don't know why everybody isn't on this. And fam, Chime is not just smarter banking. It's the most rewarding way to bank. Join the millions who are already banking fee free. Today.

[B]

Head to Chime.com/TCO.

[A]

That's Chime.com/TCO.

[B]

It only takes a few minutes to sign up.

[A]

Go sign up, fam. Get that fee free atm. Don't get charged to spend your own money fee free.

[B]

We're doing it. So the boys are here with us. Today we meet Tom Green.

[A]

First, this is the Tom Green show. It's not the Green Tom show.

[B]

Nope, not that Canadian Tom Green. Different Canadian Tom green.

[A]

The former Mr. Drew Barrymore. Look, I forgot about that.

[B]

It's kind of the only thing I remember about him.

[A]

Can I tell you, I saw a thing today. Drew Barrymore was on her show talking about how she saw a hot guy in a store. She was with Ross Matthews, and she's like, painfully hilarious.

[B]

Ross Matthews.

[A]

I know. And she's like, I think he's so hot. I wish I could just go tell him. And Ross is like, you're Drew Barrymore. Pretend this is a rom com and go tell him.

[B]

Go do it.

[A]

She did. She saw that he wasn't wearing a ring. She went and told him. She's like, I just think you're very handsome. And he's like, oh, my God, I'm married. And she's like, oh, I'm so sorry. Like, imagine like, Drew Barrymore just put her. Drew Barrymore where her mouth is.

[B]

That's the only way. The only person who could pull that off is Drew.

[A]

The only person in the world.

[B]

Now, when I think of Drew Barrymore, I don't think of Tom Green, but when I think of Tom Green, I think of Drew Barrym. Drew Barrymore stands on her own.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No question.

[B]

So Tom's the older brother. He's the healthier looking one who did all the talking. And he actually is still doing that right here in this documentary.

[A]

Yeah. And he tells everybody.

[C]

I was born and raised in the wilderness of Canada up near Revelstoke. That's up north of Vernon. My mom and dad and my younger brother, we grew up off grid in a cabin.

[A]

They want us to believe that for whatever reason, they have just wandered out of the wilderness where they spent their entire lives.

[B]

And now Will Green is here. Will's the younger brother?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

My name is Will Green, and I was raised in the forest. And their parents taught them about Neverland and never growing up and being a child forever. And, like, it's super inspiring and whimsical. And I'm like, I'm sorry. And unrealistic and damaging. I love whimsy. Find your whimsy elsewhere. This is not the. This is like a stupid. I'm sorry. It's a dumb thing to teach your kids in this way where it's like,

[A]

you is great, but, like, it's not a life lesson.

[B]

It's a story.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

You know, watch Hook. I'm just saying, like, come on, Rufio.

[A]

Rufio. Rufio. Rufy. Oh, this is a welcome to our movie podcast.

[B]

I went to grade school with Amber Scott.

[A]

Who's she?

[B]

She was a little girl in Hook.

[A]

She sang that song. Really?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

She was super cool.

[A]

Remember when Julia Roberts and Steven Spielberg were in a feud?

[B]

They called her Tinker Hell. You don't know about this. She allegedly had, like, a bit of an attitude on set because she like the special effects. She had to be Tinkerbell and, like, she was so much smaller. So really get to interact with everyone.

[A]

Her Tinker Hell.

[B]

The story is that she was, like, nicknamed Tinker Hell. I doubt Robin Williams participated in this.

[A]

Absolutely not.

[B]

But the story is that she had, like, a different, like, it looks like one of the most fun sets on Earth.

[A]

No question.

[B]

And Amber and her mom, like, told everyone that, like, it was the best.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

According to the lore, Julia Roberts was sort of isolated from everyone and didn't get to have as much fun. And she had a little bit alleged attitude about it, and so they called her Tinker Hell. I don't know anything.

[A]

You're. You're having that anecdote in the chamber. Makes me feel like you have been sitting there waiting for me to reference Hook for nine years.

[B]

I can talk about Hook relentlessly.

[A]

Unbelievable.

[B]

Yeah. I thought everyone knew Tinkerhell.

[A]

No. I will never forget it now, though.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

But find your whimsy somewhere else, because I love whimsy. But this is not. This can be a little damaging when the kids are, like, 26 and 16, 23 and 16 or whatever.

[A]

Like, don't teach your kids they can live forever. You know what I mean? That's not a thing.

[B]

Because he can't.

[A]

No.

[B]

So Tammy says that, like, they didn't go to school, they'd never been to the doctor, they're not socialized again, because they are. They grew up in the wilderness, totally isolated from everyone.

[A]

Now, we love Tammy Ride or Die. But she has taken the story verbatim. Like the hook, line and sinker. She believes every single thing that she's been told.

[B]

So Randy from the Royal Canadian Police.

[A]

Wet Blanket Police, more like it.

[B]

He's here to give everyone a cold, hard dose of reality.

[A]

The Royal Canadian Wet Blanket Police. Just because somebody tells you something, that doesn't mean it's real. I need facts. As soon as the story started bubbling,

[C]

the first thing that came to my mind was, okay, number one, who are these people?

[A]

Why are they in Vernon?

[C]

And then the natural thing is, what

[A]

are they hiding from?

[C]

Who are they hiding from?

[B]

Why are they in Vernon? What are they hiding from? Also, my questions to add to those are, where Are the parents. Why did the brothers leave the forest? How do they know what a payphone was? Like, why do they have such a perfect grip on the English language when they just, like.

[A]

Like, how did they just know that story about Tinker Hell?

[B]

Right?

[A]

You know what I mean? How did they just know that Julia Roberts was referred to as Tinker Hell on that set?

[B]

And they weren't just, like, absolutely terrified, like, what's a car? What's a. Like, how are they just not, like, shuddering in fear? Meanwhile, they're like, I know what a quarter is and I know how to use a payphone.

[A]

Look at that metal flying bird. They had planes in the 60s, Jenna.

[B]

Like, what is going on?

[A]

I know, I know.

[B]

But now the town's divided and, like, the truth is clearly somewhere in the middle. But, like, half the town hates them because Tammy's being nice to them, and half the town is like, come on. They. They, like, are like wolf children from the woods. Let's be nice.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But also, like, Canadians are really nice until they're not, because now we've got every other Canadian on TV being like, they're scammers. Well, they want our money.

[B]

Well, I mean, look, what I kind of resent here is that because the truth is so clearly in the middle, anyone who has a question is villainized. And I'm like, I have 10 million questions. Lock me up.

[A]

Well, but I also think, too, that, like, these people don't appreciate the idea of being advantage of because, like, that we're going to learn quickly. The town comes out to help these kids. You're basically giving them an allowance. And, like, the town is kind of like, some of them are like, why are we doing that? Yeah, because that nice lady Tammy Riderdi said to basically.

[B]

So, Sean, the mayor explains that in the 70s, a lot of Americans ran away to this area of Canada to avoid going to the Vietnam War. It's like two and a half hours from the border, according to Google Maps. And so he's saying, like, so if

[A]

a young man in his early 20s

[C]

had decided to cross the border and

[A]

go off the grid in an attempt

[C]

to avoid deportation, in theory, it was possible that two kids had lived completely unplugged from civilization.

[B]

It's not totally out of the realm of possibility that Tom and Will are kids of people who did this in the 70s and have just been totally off the grid now, that doesn't explain why they're in the wilderness completely, but why people would want to be off the grid. So they didn't get caught running away,

[A]

that it would have been possible to achieve this. It's not completely out of the realm of possibility.

[B]

And the brothers are like, well, we loved living in the woods, but they always wondered about people in the outside world. I'm like, yeah, you're Ariel under the sea, and you just want to be part of our world. Exactly.

[A]

Exactly where they walk up where they run. But Will is also saying that they grew up with the idea that people were dangerous.

[B]

So then why'd you leave your parents?

[A]

Right?

[B]

Well.

[A]

Cause someday you gotta leave Neverland. You know what I mean?

[B]

Do you?

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

According to these people, they are still. Their feet are firmly planted in Neverland.

[A]

And the other thing, too, is that the documentary makers give us all of these shots of these boys in the water, in these streams and creeks. I'm like, I wanna move into the.

[B]

Yeah, it's stunning. But let's be realistic, Right?

[A]

Well, Tammy finds him a place to stay at the local hostel. And, like, this is where we learned, too, that Will, the younger one, is, like, afraid of the shower and the blow dryer.

[B]

Yeah. I also want to just give Tammy credit, too, because she's saying here, she's like, she also had these questions, but she knew they. They needed help, and they, like, one of them was extremely malnourished, and she didn't want to scare them off. So she's not sitting here looking like, oh, my God, like, this is a totally innocent, totally normal situation. Like, she gets it, but she wants to help them.

[A]

What is happening here is, e. These kids did flee their life in the forest or they're having some insane mental health crisis.

[B]

Right.

[A]

One or the other is happening here.

[B]

And also, some hairdryers are just way too loud.

[A]

I couldn't agree more. As a person who, like, discovered a hairdryer on tour in Pittsburgh about 18 months ago, and I live by it now. Yeah, I, I. Absolutely.

[B]

Some of them are way too loud.

[A]

Way too loud.

[B]

Too much.

[A]

You're just trying to rock out to your. Out of the woods in the mornings.

[B]

Ridiculous.

[A]

And, like, it shuts down the sounds.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's too much. No.

[B]

And then you're hot.

[A]

No. I was just gonna say it does immediately warm a cold bathroom.

[B]

Yeah. But you are respectfully using it way less time than I am.

[A]

Oh, that's for sure true.

[B]

It's when, you know, when you're like, I just did my everything shower, and now I'm drying my hair. And now I'm sweating again. What is the point? I will just yeet myself off the nearest cliff. Thank you. It is the most infuriating.

[A]

No, you tried that at Action park as a kid and it didn't go well.

[B]

It didn't work. And then the fucking wire is banging in.

[A]

Uh huh. I get in trouble at my house because I put it back in the drawer in our little van. Then I close it, but the wire gets stuck.

[B]

I. I mean, I could kill myself.

[A]

I know. We need you.

[B]

Don't do that too. It is so. It is a maddening situation.

[A]

Tinker. Hell up in here. Do you know what I mean?

[B]

It's like, oh my God, it's a hair wash day. Jesus Christ. Maybe the wilderness isn't looking so bad.

[A]

I know you never have to shower out there.

[B]

Well, she. Speaking of showers, she wanted them to take showers. And they like, were fighting her on it. And so Tammy's like, okay, clearly things were not normal in the wilderness where they came from.

[A]

Yeah. And like, this is where Tom, the older one, is saying that the hostel is really perfect.

[C]

You know, they had a computer that anyone there could use. And that was a crazy experience growing up. You know, computer, tv. We didn't have any of that stuff.

[B]

And tell me how you know about the computer, Tommy.

[A]

Suddenly Tom is on this computer for hours at a time, probably watching Encino man on repeat. Uh, oh, yeah, I know. Uh, o.

[B]

Meanwhile, Tammy was incredible to them. Like she gave them. They said she accepted us like we were family. She let us into her home. And they say now, like, she was compassionate, empathetic, sensitive. She really cared.

[A]

I don't understand why everybody wouldn't be like that. It's like these are, these are people, they're human beings that need help. And I think Tammy's doing it exactly the right way. She helping with a, with a, A reasonable dose of skepticism. Well, but at the same time, knowing that these kids need help.

[B]

Yeah. So Henry is another cop. He might be one of the first cops we've met who actually admits that he enjoys in a position of authority, which is a direct quote 100. He's like, oh, I like being a cop because I want to like, tell people what to do.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, he loves it. And he says he was assigned to figure out who these kids were. Like, were they dangerous, were they running from something?

[B]

And so he, most importantly though, he doesn't believe a goddamn word they say.

[A]

No, not, not from the jump, no. And at the end of the day, like, Henry's gonna come out on top of this story.

[B]

No, he, he got there. I don't Love how he got there,

[A]

but his bedside manner is not great. No.

[B]

When you're not even hiding that you're in this gig for, huh?

[A]

I know it leaves a lot to be desired. I will agree with you on that.

[B]

Not my favorite thing he's saying he

[A]

runs their names through the system. Nothing comes up. No hospital records, no school records, no driving records.

[B]

Obviously, they were born next to a creek.

[A]

And I'm like, doesn't that prove their story, Henry? No, it just makes you more suspicious. But, yeah, he thought they were lying right from the start. Just more to your point. Like, the. The how he describes them more than anything else is unarrestable.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He's like, they've committed no offenses. They're unarrestable.

[B]

Kind of. There.

[A]

I'm like, that's.

[C]

That's a.

[A]

Interesting way of saying two normal human beings wandering through the world, having done nothing wrong. Right?

[B]

No fun for Henry.

[A]

Girl, Rocket Money is back. You know, I can't keep track of anything, which is why I sign up for Rocket Money, because, like, I. I'm always afraid that I'm, like, still paying for subscriptions I haven't used in 10 years. Not with Rocket Money Girl, no.

[B]

Because this is helping you track your subscriptions. You also have the ability to cancel unwanted ones with the app. Just a few taps, and. And it's saving users over $880 million in canceled subscriptions. Not a typo.

[A]

Cancel that stuff.

[B]

Are you kidding? And this isn't just about subscriptions. You can set budgets, you can set goals. You get personalized insights, you get regular reports. It's all those things that, like, people are scared about about their bank account. Like, the fear of the unknown. Rocket Money, like, clears it all up

[A]

for you, and it puts it all in one place. So the app consolidates checking, saving, loans, and investments into a single dashboard to give you a clear picture of your finances. This is what I look at when I get, like, it's all right there for you. There's no excuses. You gotta, like, stare at the hard thing. And you got it all in one place.

[B]

Yeah. And if there's something where you're like, I forgot I had that. I don't even want that. I barely use that. That's why the subscriptions are so important, because everyone has to subscribe to everything these days, Literally.

[A]

So, fam. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps you find and cancel unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps you lower your bills so you can grow your savings.

[B]

Let Rocket Money help you reach your Financial goals faster. [e-mail] obsessed that's RocketMoney.com obsessed RocketMoney.com obsessed But Henry the cop goes to the hostel to speak to them. And now of course we get two totally different versions of the story.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

According to the brothers, he was confrontational and intimidating the cops. Like we were professional and thorough. Tom says we were being honest. Thank God he hated that. And every. The cops, like these two had an answer for everything and they were being uncooperative.

[A]

Henry says that Tom when asked and then when they said their parents were Mary and Joseph, I thought, this is going nowhere.

[C]

I was just telling the truth. That's their job, to identify people. If they don't know who we are, that's on them.

[A]

He basically does the things.

[B]

That's when he's like, all right, interview over. We're not going anywhere. Like, this is bullshit.

[A]

But honestly too Tom, like, that's the quickest way to make people think that you're insane.

[B]

Well, also because Henry the cop reiterates that Tom did all the talking. The younger one didn't say a word. And like, I'm just saying this is a red flag that this 15 year old kid who's malnourished and everyone who sees him for two seconds like he, he's dying, he looks so sick and won't talk. And the, and under the supervision of his brother. And they like this, Tom's doing all the talking. We don't know anything about them. Like red flags out the wazoo.

[A]

Yeah. And the food stuff is like really serious because he's saying that like he wouldn't eat anything that involved killing a plant. Like he wouldn't eat a carrot because you had to pull it out of the ground.

[B]

So both of the brothers are vegan, but Will is described as extreme.

[A]

So fruitarian, he says.

[B]

So fruitarianism is real.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And it's a diet made up of certain, like fruits, nuts and seeds. And. But some people won't even eat the seeds because the seeds will become a plant. And that's also. It's too much.

[A]

My question is like, what fruits aren't plant? Like what fruit doesn't have to die for you to eat it or if

[B]

it like, if like an orange happened to fall off a tree.

[A]

Perhaps.

[B]

I'm not, not an expert on fruitarianism, but what I do know is that

[A]

have I learned right now that you were an expert?

[B]

I googled this for two seconds. I was like, this is pissing me off. So I know, I know it's widely criticized because it's very dangerous and very unhealthy because you're not getting. You think, like, oh, fruit is healthy. It's filled with sugar and acid. It's filled with acid. You're not getting protein, you're not getting calcium, you're not getting iron. Like, a lot of your like. Like essential vitamins and nutrients and minerals, you're not getting just from fruit.

[A]

There's also, and I say this respectfully to anybody who's listening who is a fruitarian, there's no need for it.

[B]

No, I'm sorry, you're wrong. You're unhealthy. You're in danger. Please get the help you need. I mean that sincerely.

[A]

I mean, it really sounds like disordered eating.

[B]

It's like, no nutrients, lots of fruit decay, and, like, at the very least, you will suffer from severe malnutrition, which is what we're seeing with Will.

[A]

As the weeks went by, he was losing weight and he was getting thinner and thinner.

[D]

He was so malnourished, very low energy, speaking very monotone, just not like a regular teenager.

[B]

You're just not getting what your body needs from just fruit.

[A]

As the resident fruit, I will tell you that we are not enough. No, we are not enough. No. You know what I mean?

[B]

100%, we are.

[A]

Great. Yeah. Have I dabbled in fruitarianism myself?

[B]

Maybe everyone needs a little bit more protein. Exactly, Is all I'm saying.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

We need some meat on those bumps.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

So. But Tammy and Tom Green.

[A]

This is the Tom Green Show.

[B]

Not that Tom Green. This Tom Green, the older brother who's like the mouthpiece, would fight about this. And Tammy's like, you. He will is a child and he's sick. And Tom's like, well, this is his choice. And he was, like, super nonchalant about the whole thing.

[A]

Yeah. To be clear, like Thomas fighting for the younger brother. Will's right to eat what he wants

[B]

to eat, but he's not eating right is the problem.

[A]

And you look at him and, like, I mean, he is gaunt. Doesn't even begin to describe it.

[B]

It's very jarring. He. He is in danger. And Tammy, of course, anyone would be sitting there being like, we need to help him. He needs help.

[C]

Help.

[A]

And, you know, he says, like, we haven't always been like this. Like, Mary and Joseph, the parents apparently hunted and fished. So, like, they did eat meat at some point, but they're just not doing it now.

[B]

But then Tom says to us today in the doc that their parents didn't support this, like, extreme veganism. And veganism quote is not how they do it out there. So that's why we had to go. But they don't tell anybody this in the moment because everyone, like, when Tammy. Like, when they're with Tammy. No, they're not saying anything. So the less they say, the more questions everybody has.

[A]

It's wild because there's a scene where it's Tom's birthday and Tammy has made him a cake.

[B]

Oh, it's so sad.

[A]

And he takes a bite of it, and you can see Will, the younger one in the background, the look on his face looking at the cake.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's a look of desperation. It's a look of not knowing what to do. And, like, the feelings he's feeling looking at the cake.

[B]

And when you're so malnourished like that, you also just can't eat anything.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, you have to start slow. You know, your body is totally void of anything it really needs.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So you can't just be like, oh, I'm gonna, like, go eat a bunch of burgers now. Like, no, no, no, don't do that either.

[A]

Right. Yeah.

[B]

This is a really sensitive thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So now Tom, the older one, wants to get a job.

[C]

I was saying to Tammy, hey, you know, I'm willing to work. Can you get me help so I can just get a job? We didn't have, like, birth certificates. We didn't have IDs. It all came down to getting identified.

[A]

This is where the story starts to change because they. In order for Tom to get a job, he needs identification. And so they. They. Tammy's like, look, there's like, a local. This was a little confusing to me. I don't understand how letting a local newspaper write a story about them is going to help them get identification. But one way or another, Tammy convinces them to let this little local paper write a story. Because remember, the. The boys are not talking to anybody about anything, barely even Tammy. But they agree to do this one

[B]

interview and the story blows up.

[A]

And, like, how could it not? It's like one little story about them gets picked up, and it's all like, they are these two wild boys that wandered out of the forest and don't, like, are literally saying they spent their entire life, like, eating out of the creek and growing up without, like, electricity. And now they're here and aren't telling anybody anything else. So now the world is fascinated by them.

[B]

But also, like, what do. Are your parents doing illegal things? Are there more kids being abused? Like, they're not. They're not telling anybody anything. Which is also kind of weird because they're also not acting like they escaped anything.

[A]

Right. Because they're not giving any information. It comes off as though they're being secretive.

[B]

Right. And now this divides the town even more. The town was already divided, but, like. Like, half of the town is giving these boys a ton of money, and the other half is, like, why?

[D]

There was a community member that called me in the middle of the night, drunk, freaking out, and basically accusing me of helping these boys who probably didn't need the help. She was just convinced they were lying. I remember just feeling a lot of pressure. Like, I don't know what to do. I'm just a mom.

[A]

This lady tinker Hell calls Tammy in the middle of the night drunk.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

To complain. I love that little tidbit. I was like, whoa, put the chardonnay down, Samantha.

[B]

I mean that. Because that's crazy.

[A]

That is crazy.

[B]

Like, please.

[A]

Because it's like a town where everybody knows everybody.

[B]

Like drunk dialing Tammy now. Hasn't she been through enough?

[A]

Yeah. I feel like Samantha's had an extra grind with Tammy from the beginning. You know what I mean?

[B]

Shut up, Samantha.

[A]

I know poor Tammy's getting it from

[B]

all sides, but she is so. So the pressure's mounting because now there's all this attention on the boys because of this newspaper article. So Tamm gets them a lawyer, and now they're protected by Tammy and this legal team, so no one can ask them anything. And now the cops are seeing Tammy as this obstacle. Yeah, because, like, she's, like, not alleged. She's, like, protecting them. And they're like, we have a ton of questions. And now she, like, it's just a mess.

[A]

It's like Henry from the Royal Mounted Wet Blanket Society is like, why did they need a lawyer? And I'm kind of on his side. Although I think when you're. When you're Tammy, you're kind of just like, this is out of my hands.

[B]

Well, she's not. With no shade at all. She's not equipped for this part of it.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

She didn't know. She gave them quarters and said, like, do you. But they're also, like, refusing a lot of help. They're not like, help me help you.

[A]

Yeah. But the thing, too, for the tammies of the world, of which I consider myself probably one, this is what's always gonna happen when you try to help the two wild boys that wandered out

[B]

of the forest especially.

[A]

It's never gonna be simple.

[B]

No because now Tom starts fighting with her.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, she is begging for any information to help them, and he's refusing. And eventually she's like, do you know how much I've done for you?

[A]

I know.

[B]

Like, all I'm trying to do is help you, and you're not giving me anything. You need to give me information. If you wanna be independent, like, you have to here.

[A]

Can I just say, I don't mean to make up sweeping, generalized statement, but here's something I want to say about all Canadians.

[B]

Okay. Oh, God.

[A]

They are the most careful, selfless, kind people. And I'm only like, my. My. My greatest reference for this has come from away. And if you don't know that story, fam. In two sentences, it's like, on 9 11, when all these flights could not come back to America, they were diverted to a town called Gander in Canada. And, like, the town, like, literally the town quintupled in size overnight. And the entire town came together to, like, take care of these people who where there was, like, chaos in their homeland and couldn't get back.

[B]

It's a really beautiful story.

[A]

It's such a beautiful story, and it's so well told, but I'm, like, just thinking about, like, Tammy, and I'm like, God, you're such a ganderin, you know?

[B]

Classic Canada.

[A]

Classic Canada girl. Home chef is back. I'm so excited to talk about it again because I now officially cook dinner for my family, like, one or two times a week.

[B]

Isn't it so great? It is.

[A]

And I feel like I'm contributing to, like, the nighttime things that have to get done. They make it so easy. Easy. My favorite thing, too, is that they've got all different ways you can do it. If you like to chop and cook, you can do it that way. If you got the ones you just want to, like, literally unwrap and throw in the oven, you can do it that way. If you want to do ones you pop in the microwave, you can do it that way.

[B]

And I'm also, like, a meal kit girl, so I've tried a lot of them. I have to say, home chef, I use it. I love it. The meals are a lot more, like, elevated than the other ones, but they're not more difficult than the other ones.

[A]

Well, and let me tell you, they work with chefs like Gordon Ramsay, and now they're partnering with Gianna de la Rent Renti, bringing restaurant quality recipes straight to your kitchen. And it looks like it and it

[B]

smells like it and it tastes like it.

[A]

I cannot Tell you how easy they make it. They like you look at the directions and like everything you need is pre portioned. It's right there. You unzip one thing, it tells you exactly where to dump it. You do a little stir, stir. You dump it on a plate and it is delicious and gorgeous.

[B]

Yeah, I'm not alone. People really love it. Home Chef is rated number one by users of other meal kits for quality, convenience, value, tastes and recipe ease. I am here to tell you that is 100% true and you're saving money, fam.

[A]

Home Chef customers save an average of 87 bucks per month on groceries.

[B]

And it feels nice. You're like, hey, dinner's ready.

[A]

I really like it.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

So, fam. For a limited time, Home Chef is offering our listeners 50% off and free shipping for your first box. Plus my favorite free dessert for life.

[B]

Go to homechef.com TCO that's homechef.com TCO

[A]

for 50% off your first box and free dessert for life.

[B]

Homechef.com TCO must be an active subscriber to receive free dessert, but you're going to thank us.

[A]

Yeah, you really, really are, girl. Haya is back. I gotta tell you as a parent because these are the vitamins for the kids, right?

[B]

Right, right.

[A]

Well, I was raised on like super processed foods. My mom did the best she could, but I love knowing that I'm giving my kid the real deal. And when it comes to kids vitamins, we know the ones that we know are filled with sugar, they're not actually good for you. That is where Haya comes in.

[B]

Yeah. The ingredient list is super clean, non gmo, vegan, dairy free, allergy free, gelatin free, nut free. They've thought of everything and they love to take it.

[A]

Daisy loves it. And here's something every parent needs to hear. If getting your kids to eat vegetables feels like an impossible battle, Haya's new Kids Daily Greens plus Superfoods is a total game changer. Daisy loves it. It's basically chocolate milk stuffed with veggies. It's a green powder designed specifically for kids that's packed with 55 plus whole food sourced ingredients. And it's super easy. All you do is mix one scoop with milk or any milk alternative and watch them actually enjoy something that's secretly fueling their growing bodies. It's like Daisy even now knows that there's veggies in it and she still loves it.

[B]

Yeah, that's great. And they send stickers and the kids can decorate the bottles with the stickers.

[A]

Who doesn't love a sticker?

[B]

And I don't know why that's not also for adults, for kids. I'm just saying.

[A]

So, fam. We've worked out a special deal with Haya for their bestselling children's vitamin.

[B]

Receive 50% off your first order to claim this deal, you must go to hyahealth.com tco this deal is not available

[A]

on their regular website. Go to H I Y a H E a l t h.com tco and get your kids the full body nourishment they need to grow into healthy adults.

[B]

There you go.

[A]

And feel good doing it.

[B]

And be a little jealous of the stickers. That's totally normal.

[A]

Truly. That truly. That's.

[B]

So Tom realizes he needs to, quote, give her some goodwill. So he's like, okay, I will. Let's go into the woods and I'll ask my parents some questions. So she's driving.

[A]

Because the other thing, too, is that he refuses to tell anybody where his parents actually are.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, and like, the cops, like, then we'll send helicopters out. And they're like, no, our house has, Our cabin has been covered. Like, we did that on purpose.

[B]

This is just so annoying to me. But they, like, she drives out deep into the woods alone with these two boys she doesn't know. Taking their direction, I'm like, everyone's lost the plot. This is way too dangerous.

[A]

Never do this.

[B]

And finally, I don't care how Canadian you are, right? They're like, yeah, over here. This is good. This is where they are. Like, that's the ticket. So then they leave her in the car, and this is when she starts to spiral, and she's like, wait a second.

[D]

I was sitting in the car for what seemed like forever, and I just started spinning at that point, being like, are they criminals? Like, are we in danger? In my mind, I'm like, oh, my gosh. They've been with my kids. You know, they know where I live.

[B]

Once she's sort of alone for a second in the wilderness by herself.

[A]

She's like, shit, this is not good.

[B]

And an hour later, the boys come back and they're like, oh, they. They, like, didn't say anything.

[A]

We saw them and they said they wouldn't help us, and we weren't allowed to come in the house.

[B]

And Tammy's like, you didn't see them?

[A]

And they're like, actually, no, we didn't.

[B]

Yeah, no, I, I, we. I just played along with you to give you some goodwill, and I'M not going to compromise their location. That sentence fucking put me through the roof.

[A]

I know.

[B]

That is the most irritating. You're not going to. What are they, fucking CIA now? You're not going to compromise then what do.

[A]

At that point, it's like, Tammy, you did what you could. You know what I mean? Drive them. Don't leave them in the woods. Because Lord knows these kids from the woods don't actually know how to survive in the woods.

[B]

Right? At this point, I'm like, then go do it.

[A]

Bring them back. Let them go back to the hostel. Go back to your life. Like, these kids for her are, like, beyond helping any more than she already has.

[B]

Well, Henry the cop is like, yeah, I could have told you that. This would have been a waste of time. But Tammy, according to Henry, who again, don't love the way he does things. I know, but he says that it felt like Tammy was, like, insisting on making it us versus them. The cops are being aggressive, Tammy's being protective.

[A]

I do wonder if there's a little bit of, like, self preservation on Tammy's part now. Like, drunk Samantha called her and yelled at her. And now she's got to prove Samantha that, like, no, these kids are actually good people.

[B]

And of course she's not going to tell the cops that she's going to do this because she knows in her heart that they're going to tell her not to.

[A]

Right? And, like, she probably also knows in their heart that the boy's story is bullshit.

[B]

But also, bullshit or not, Will is dying. Yeah. Like, he's so malnourished, he's so sick, he's refusing to. To eat. Like, he's getting worse by the day. Something's got to give here. Like, all she sees this teenager on, like, really? No.

[A]

Well, he's 85 pounds and over six feet tall.

[B]

That's insane.

[A]

I know.

[B]

So obviously she's like, something is very wrong and she just wants to get to the bottom of it. And I don't blame her for that one.

[A]

So she calls the Henry, the guy from the rcmp. Like, she's like, all right, we were on opposing sides, but now we're together. Like, I know where they are. Go pick them up. Like, Will's going to die if you don't do something.

[B]

Right.

[C]

That day I walked to the health. I was buying oranges and all my fruit that I normally buy.

[A]

I approached him, told him he was being apprehended under the Mental Health act of British Columbia.

[C]

He put me in caps and put me in, like, A freaking, you know, cop car.

[A]

Henry goes and gets him and, like, apprehends him under the mental Health act of British Columbia. And which basically means, like, if you are a danger to yourself or to others, we can detain. Now, this is where I'm with you, that Henry handles this all wrong. I hated this because they're in the car on the way, and like, I. In Henry's mind, in some way, he probably feels like he's won here. And so he's a little taunting the boys on the way to the hospital, and he's like, they're gonna force feed

[B]

him cheeseburgers because Will is terrified. Like, Will, whatever is going on in Will's mind is incredibly real. Yeah, he's not eating because he's scared to eat.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So when this cop is like, like, they're, well, too bad, bucko. They're gonna make it like, this guy kind of. I know, it's my opinion. I'm just saying he feels like the guy who, like, doesn't get addiction. Like, he doesn't, like, just stop.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Just leave. Leave the abuser, leave. You know, put down the bottle. Like, he doesn't really seem like he gets it. So he's definitely not gonna, like, take this as a mental health crisis, which it is, because.

[A]

And also, like, Will, the younger one who's dying, like, this could end up with him being, like, restrained and like, force fed. You know what I mean?

[B]

It's that bad. It's that sick.

[A]

It really is. And Will, I think, knows this. And like, I think for him, like, that, like, that's death to him. Like, he'd rather die than have that happen.

[B]

Right. And Henry, the cops, like, I don't deny it. I probably that crack about the burgers,

[A]

and I'm like, not cool.

[B]

So we meet Timothy. He's a TV producer for a show called Disclosure.

[A]

I just love Canadians so much because Timothy is just kind of like, yeah, it's a big story and we're gonna get to the bottom of it. You know what I mean? Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. So he knows that the brothers have never spoken publicly, but he also knows that Will is now admitted to the hospital.

[C]

And that was our goal, was to

[A]

see if we could get an interview

[C]

with them, get them to talk and learn more about them.

[B]

I went to Vernon not knowing how

[C]

long it was going to take.

[B]

I didn't have a return ticket.

[A]

He goes to Vernon with no return ticket. Like, this guy is all in.

[B]

And I do want to say, like, Will does not want to be in the hospital. He has no id. Like, this is just by definition, a very vulnerable, scary place to be in if you're will, because no one can find you, no one can help you. You're just like, in. Maybe. Maybe this is the American in me. But I'm like, you're just, like, in the system, and no one knows how to help you.

[A]

When we learned the true story, it didn't have to go down like this.

[B]

Right. Which is why they're not telling the truth. And I'm sitting here thinking, like, telling the truth will help them. And I'm not saying that. And I just confess and you can see your mom kind of way I'm saying it is.

[A]

Like, if I do feel like I've been up for 27 hours, you know,

[B]

like, I'm not saying it like that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But, like, it does feel a little bit. Like, why aren't you saying you're not saying anything for a reason? We all have to wake up a little bit.

[A]

And I do think, like, we have to remember, at least Will is a child. And maybe he's starting to think, like, now if I tell the truth, I'm going to be in trouble.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, like, not only are they going to, like, do all these horrible things to me, but, like, now I'm like, now, now we're too far into this lie.

[B]

It's much bigger than anyone. Anticip.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So Timothy, the reporter, is saying, like, he keeps trying to get Tom, the older brother, to tell their story, and either he's refusing, or he'd get close and then say, no again. Tom, you suck, man.

[A]

Tom does suck. But then Tom says that, like, just when they were about to give up, I was like, okay, fine, we'll do it.

[B]

Right? After months of negotiations, I'm like, how much money did you try to get for this? Negotiations just sounded interesting.

[A]

Yeah. Where? Like, where are you going to use that money in the wilderness?

[B]

I don't know. You know, like, how many pay phones could you really pay for?

[A]

I think that, like, Tom is just understanding they're coming to the end of their control of this. Like. Like, at this point, like, it's just out of their hands.

[B]

Well, guess what? Everything falls apart. They're completely full of shit. And they have been since the beginning.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And as we end this first episode, we check in with Tammy, and she's like, yeah. You know that hindsight 2020 thing, that's like a real thing. And looking back, you know the thing about the computer, like, how can someone

[A]

who was literally raised in the Forest with no electricity, have these skills.

[D]

Will would slip and say, oh, yeah, I watched that movie. Or, oh, I love Cinderella or something. Right. And. And I'd be like, well, how do

[B]

you know that they would, like, slip up and make pop culture references? I'm like, cinderella. How many times did you guys watch Encino Man?

[A]

Exactly. Right, right, right.

[B]

Tom had, like, designer sunglasses.

[A]

Where did the designer sunglasses come from?

[B]

They also had zero outdoor skills. They would, like, look at, like, a log and be like, what is that?

[A]

Like, I have the same level of woods skills as Tom.

[B]

So they lied and they're bullshit and they were bad at this.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And episode one, it's into episode two. So the story airs on tv.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And, like, there they are on television, like, talking about how they're raised in the woods, but they won't talk about their parents. So everyone knows this is bullshit, but they're just, like, along for the ride.

[A]

Yeah. So Timothy, the journalist, gets an email from somebody who says that, like, that's my kids. Those are my kids. And, like. And some of these, like. Like, that's great. But, like, this person could be anybody. So they. Timothy, who should be making reality television, gets Tammy in a car, gives Tammy a phone with the woman claiming to be the boy's mom. Tammy is hysterical because the mom is describing the boys to a T. And she's like, oh, my God, like, these are your kids.

[B]

But she's also. She's happy, she's furious, she's betrayed. She's literally out of the birdcage. Like, how do you think I feel? Betrayed. Bewildered.

[A]

I agree with you.

[B]

Because she's like, wait a second. Like, you're. You have a mom calling me from California.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And then when we see this footage of Tammy asking Tom about the scar, like this identifying feature, he's fucking smirking. That smirk is gonna stay on his face until the very end. And I wanna punch it off of

[A]

him because it is, like, it is the way that they're gon to identify them and be able to prove that it's him. And so that's the other thing. Timothy was like, we're going to confront Tom, but we're going to confront Tom in the car. They do the thing that they tell kids who are coming out to their conservative parents to do, which is get them in the car, get them on the highway, and tell them then.

[B]

That's a horrible idea.

[A]

I think so, too.

[B]

That's a. That's a who. Tell that. Don't. Do not do that, please.

[A]

She's looking Right into the camera.

[B]

Really don't do it. That Putting everybody in danger.

[A]

I think the idea is that the parents can't, like, jump. They can't go away. Like they had. They're stuck with you in the car for at least the next 10 minutes.

[B]

Do not. That's one of the worst ideas I've ever heard. And I just sat through this shit, so do not. That is an awful idea.

[A]

Yeah, I. It's funny. Like, that just came back to me as I was saying it, and I'm like. I don't know if I think, like, maybe it's good for kids who know, like, who know their parents aren't going to like it, but, like, aren't going to, like, drive off a bridge.

[B]

Maybe like, a nicer restaurant, like a place where. Like a library maybe, where if you scream, you're an asshole like some not.

[A]

Not a car. 85 miles south.

[B]

Are you kidding me?

[A]

Follow us for more coming out tips from Jillian.

[B]

Do not do that.

[A]

I. No, it does now. Now that I'm saying it out loud, it does seem like kind of a bad idea. But. But it also seems like kind of a good idea.

[B]

No, it is a zero percent good idea.

[A]

Bad idea.

[B]

Zero percent good.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Zero.

[A]

Okay, Great.

[B]

Okay, great.

[A]

Move. Move. Moving on, girl. Gusto is back. Look. This is an online payroll and benefit software built for small businesses like ours. It's an all in one remote, friendly, and it's incredibly easy to use, so you can pay, hire, onboard, and support your team from anywhere.

[B]

Yeah, they have unlimited payroll runs for one. No hidden fees, no surprises. And that's usually a thing that they try to gouge on.

[A]

I got to tell you, Steve sent me a list of things because he runs our payroll. He's obsessed with it. He's talking about their dashboard, how perfect it is, how it makes everything quick and easy. And, like, they handle, like, the sneaky, tricky stuff, like different compliance or different tax filings that you need to make. So he was saying, like, we've got employees from, like, New York, California, Ohio, and he's saying no one can know all the different tax codes and forms to file. But Gusto takes care of all of that for you. Like, all the hard stuff.

[B]

Yeah. And you get direct access to certified HR experts to help support through any tough HR situation, which we all need.

[A]

Yeah, and he just, like, raves and raves about the customer service. He, like, knows some of them by name. They get back to him immediately, and they solve all the problems. Gusto, we are obsessed. Love so fam. Try Gusto today at Gusto.com TCO and get three months free when you run your first payroll.

[B]

That's three months of free payroll at Gusto.com TCO one more time, fam.

[A]

Gusto.com TCO into it.

[B]

Tom Green is actually Kyle Horn and Will is actually Rowan Horne. And they're like, it was all an

[A]

act of games, by the way.

[B]

Survival act. And I'm like, I'm sick and tired of the two of you. And Tom's fucking smirking.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So Tammy confirms that, like, there was no remorse.

[D]

There was no emotion. Just numb. He was just, like, numb to everything. And he. He didn't seem like it mattered. It was upsetting because he was just like, you're the one who chose to help us. We didn't ask you. You came to us. And that is true.

[B]

He's like, hey, lady, you came up to us. And it's like, yeah, she did. But you, full stop, took advantage of her.

[A]

My thing about this is, like, I'm just not surprised.

[B]

This is kind of a nothing burger of a story, if I may.

[A]

Yeah. Well, what I'm saying is I'm not surprised by the older ones, like, last of remorse.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And in a way, I. I almost have some empathy for him because when we. When we learn the story, I'm not saying it's right and I'm not saying I agree, but he thinks he's, like, in survival mode.

[B]

I have no. The older one, I don't have any sympathy for.

[A]

I'm not. I have sympathy for them, but, like, I. I understand. I'm. I don't know why. I just, like, I wasn't surprised that the older one was, like, kind of an asshole, because he's, like, the one that's, like, like, charged with keeping everybody alive in his mind, I guess, you know? But now we cut to their parents. Parents. I was so tricked because it comes up on screen. Mary and Joseph. I thought their names really were Mary and Joseph.

[B]

And then it, like, does a transition, like a fade. Their real names are Diana and Roger.

[A]

I wrote down. I wrote this whole thing, like, oh, my God, their names really are Mary and Joseph. They weren't. And then I have to go back

[B]

because, like, there's always one little nugget of truth, you know? So that could have been a very easy thing to tell the truth totally about, but they didn't.

[A]

So Timothy and the CBC people, they go to California to meet the family because, like, it's the biggest story in the world, and they want to, like, get more views out of it.

[B]

His parents. The parents, by the way, are completely like. I know we can't judge how people act, but they're not acting like they miss their kids. They're la everything. Every, like, weird, odd, scary thing their kids do, they think is adorable. And they're laughing about it. These parents. I hate them.

[A]

Yeah. And I've got a lot of questions about the family dynamics. Like, we meet, they have a sister, and, like, the sister's like, giving us a tour of the house. And the house looks like, quote, normal

[B]

or whatever in old footage. She's not here. That's an important, like, 2003 footage. I pray to God she's gone. Contact.

[A]

Oh, God.

[B]

That's my goal.

[A]

You have any update on her?

[B]

No, I can't find her anywhere.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

But Tom slash Kyle, the older brother had mental health issues and his parents are laughing about it on the news. She's like, dare we? Dare we incriminate him?

[A]

I know. Well, because it's really serious.

[C]

Like, Kyle's the sweetest kid ever. But we saw some of his writing that said he thought it was a good idea to blow up credit card buildings and police officers cars saying he

[A]

wants to blow up credit card buildings and police cars. And they say that they had him evaluated and that whoever the evaluators were were like, no, he's fine.

[B]

The cops come over, talk to him for 10 minutes and they're like, light, not, mom, he's fine.

[A]

Like, was that a different time or was that a different fucking time?

[B]

I also can't believe a goddamn thing these people say, because I don't believe them or trust them at all.

[A]

We learned about Kyle and Rowan when they were, like, in school. Like, Kyle was a loner. Locked himself in his room, was on his computer all the time. That's why he was so happy to see the computer at the hospital hostel. After high school, he decided he wasn't gonna work.

[B]

Yeah, he didn't wanna get a job. He just wanted to be alone in his room, like, feeding his conspiracy theories. And according to the dad, he's like, well, he didn't believe in working, but we believe that you have to work hard to get by in this world. And so they kick him out. And that's the last time they saw him. And I'm like, I don't believe that.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like, this entire family is self centered and entitled and they're all unreliable narrators. However, that smuggler bullshit is alive and well in Kyle. So I could believe that he's like, I'm just going to live here.

[A]

But my thing is just, like, it starts to make a little bit more sense why the parents weren't, like, actively looking for at least the older one. Like, if that story is true and they kicked him out on the street. We'll learn in a minute that, like, he always wanted to go to Canada, so he told his parents that's where he was going.

[B]

But that's a lie. That's not true. Because he's home. And we'll learn in two seconds that that story's a lie anyway.

[A]

So we learned, like, the dad was an insurance ingestor, the mom worked at a movie theater. They say they were very middle class. Rowan was the baby of the family, very sweet, and, like, by the time he came along, they'd thrown all the rules out. They weren't the regular parents. They were the cool parents.

[B]

Mother's like, the other kids had rules, like 10 air quotes a piece and consequences. But she was over being a parent by the time Rowan came along.

[A]

We learned that they listened to Art Bell every night. Now you say you're thinking that I've got something.

[B]

These people are conspiracy theorists through and through. Art Bell is like a conspiracy theory, right?

[C]

Growing up, I heard all sorts of weird conspiracies. You know, things that, like, if they're true, that'd be really crazy. You know, secret society not to trust the medical profession because the drugs are harming you, dangers of vaccines. Why don't we put fluoride in the water? It costs a lot of money to do that. There's a whole out there fringe group who think the earth is flat. I'm pretty much in that camp.

[B]

His dad is a flat earther.

[A]

I mean, that dad is like two camera. I'm a flat earther.

[B]

Can I tell you something, please, about my dad?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, my dad is like, he hates flat earthers. Well, so, you know, he's like my biggest fan. And he's very, like, interested in what I do and, like, the show and, like, what we're covering and the cases and whatever. So I'm very lucky with that. Like, he's super supportive about it. So there have been times where I'm like, dad, you gotta hear about the story. You gotta watch this thing. So I've told this on the show before, but, like, he. I tried to get him to watch the Flat Earth documentary.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Cause I thought he would, like, we would just, like, tease, like, I don't know.

[A]

I would chuckle about it.

[B]

20 minutes in. He was like, I Love you, but I can't do this. Like, it just. He was. Besides, there's another thing now that's on par with the flat earthers, because I was talking about this fruitarianism. He is just, like, it's so unhealthy. So now, like, he just can't. But I was like, dad. But there are these people and the dad's a flat earther. And he was like, I can't. And I'm like, no. But then there's this thing, fruitarianism. He was like, you made that up. I was like, I did not. So I was like, teaching him about it. But between the flat. My dad could never stomach this documentary.

[A]

I want to make a documentary about your dad called the Fruitarian and the Flat Earther.

[B]

Like, he can't.

[A]

I know.

[B]

He just can't do it.

[A]

The thing about the. I don't know about the fruitarianism thing, but, like, the flat earther thing, the reason it's so infuriating is because it's just like, you just can't argue with these people. Same with no talking to them.

[B]

Right, Right.

[A]

Like, you're never going to get through to them. Like, it just feels like they're living in a separate reality.

[B]

Like, willfully. Yeah. And I, I, that and bothers me.

[A]

It feels like they don't even believe it. They just want to have the fight 100%.

[B]

And that's what bothers me. I think it's the smugness.

[A]

Yes. Yes.

[B]

So, okay, remember that scar on Will's stomach from before? That's how the mom could accurately ID him. We get the story of how that happened.

[A]

It's horrible.

[B]

Rob Rowan. Will Rowan.

[A]

I know. There's so many names now.

[B]

He's nine years old. It's Thanksgiving Day. He's riding his bike outside and he falls off it and the handlebar, like, goes into his gut. It's. It sounds extremely painful and, like, could

[A]

happen to any kid, any kid at

[B]

any moment, at any time.

[A]

Tragic freak accident.

[B]

So he says. He hobbles back home. Cut to the mom who tells us we're trying to do Thanksgiving. And he's just laying there on the floor.

[A]

I know.

[B]

Groaning in pain, she begrudgingly calls 91 1. And I'm like, oh, and interesting. So you're calling 911 for an ambulance to the house of the people who think the entire medical profession is trying to kill you.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So that also pisses me the fuck off.

[A]

Oh, don't even get me started. Like, if you're not going to take the Measles vaccine. Then when you get measles, we don't help.

[B]

That's what I'm saying. So you're going to poison your kids mind with this conspiracy.

[A]

And I'm not talking about the kids that get denied the vaccine. I'm talking about the willful adults who aren't taking it.

[B]

But who are you calling when you need help?

[A]

Right, of course.

[B]

So Ghostbusters. Right, but. So nine year old Will has to have emergency surgery. Now he's more terrified than us, as anybody would be.

[A]

Any nine year old little kid would be.

[B]

Yes, but because of. Thanks to his parents.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So they have to remove Will's spleen and he's told if you had waited any longer, you would have died. So you're welcome. And maybe stop talking shit about us. Aren't you so glad we showed up on time?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So the mom tells us. I really want to slow down on this. The mom says that they were told.

[C]

We were told that without a spleen you're at heavy risk of catching pneumonia and dying. You need to take vaccines and these different shots, like for the rest of your life. We believe that there's mercury in them and the autism rates are going way up and I just opted out of that.

[B]

So they opted out of the recommended treatment. I need to stop on this for a second because this, first of all, this shows. What? They're unreliable. How they're unreliable now because nobody told her that. Because that's not the case.

[A]

Oh, really?

[B]

No. You are not at heavy risk of catching pneumonia and dying without a spleen. The spleen is what helps the body fight infection. So obviously if you don't have it, there are precautions to take.

[A]

Yeah, you're immunocompromised. Like that's the true thing.

[B]

You can absolutely live without it. I know people who do. I've spoken to them about this very thing. Like you can live a normal, long, healthy life, but you have to be aware, which is good advice in the world. Right. But like, you do need to take your vaccines. You have to 100% stay on top of it. If something happens, you have to be like, by the way, I don't have my spleen.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But like, you know, like, raise your

[A]

hand if you're spleenless.

[B]

Yeah. Like you are 100% at more of a risk of infection than those of us with spleen. It's like, I totally get that. But it is not a death sentence. What is a death sentence is not taking the vaccines and the antibiotics that you need. So for her to say, like, the medical profession is trying to kill you. And then, like, you're bringing him to the emergency room as he's bleeding out on the fucking living room floor.

[A]

No, it's like, this is exactly why these kids ended up exactly how they are. Because this is when Rowan becomes obsessed with being healthy.

[B]

Right.

[C]

When you have an organ removed from you, you feel like you're not ever fully safe. Just made me start thinking a lot more about death and how close I

[A]

had come to it.

[C]

And I think that's when, like, I really started to just be hyper obsessed with health.

[A]

Because he knows he's immunocompromised. All he can think about is, like, eating food to, like, take care of himself, which is resulting in him losing weight. And the mother is, like, standing next to him being like, isn't he cute?

[B]

And she's saying it today. Yes. Like, today she's like, well, we were told he was gonna die, girl. So now I don't believe anything she says. And, like. Because this whole, like, ordeal. Trauma. Traumatized him. The accident. Being in pain, writhing on the floor while the mother steps over him carrying her probably unseasoned Mac and cheese. Like, fuck you.

[A]

But, like, she's fully supporting his choices in his food intake, which is resulting in this, like, 16 year old getting down to £114.

[B]

I'm just hearing, like, a lot of neglect here.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Like, forcing the conspiracies on him. He's so malnourished. She's so underweight. Like, I'm just hearing.

[A]

I know. And it's like, how did. How did this happen?

[B]

I know.

[A]

How did, like, both parents and everybody else in the family be like, this is all makes sense to us because we get no backstory on how they met. What? Their backstory.

[B]

They're more susceptible to this. I think when you're a conspiracy theorist like this, you're just more willing to be like, yep, cool. And so they want to be the cool parents. And I don't think they're really interested in parenting.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so when Will is 12 years old, the Internet happens. And so now he finds a place to, like, exacerbate all of these fears

[A]

or to, like, prove them crack.

[B]

And he's, like, surviving on fruit and misinformation. Yeah. Which will kill anybody.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

And so, like, then he's. Now he's fighting with his parents, he's lying about his weight, he's hiding his weight, and he's, like, confirmation biasing all over the place.

[A]

Well, and then they take him to the doctor and the doctor wants to institutionalize him. The parents won't allow it. So they force him to do like regular weigh ins.

[C]

But when I said time to get on the scale, he says, just a minute, mom. And he would go to his room and put on a bulky outfit and hide ankle weights under his clothes.

[A]

And they're telling the story like now, like as though it's adorable.

[B]

It is not adorable. And the mom's like, we were so frustrated. I'm like, why? You fostered this.

[A]

You allowed it to happen and then you let him put on weights to get on the scale. Right?

[B]

And then I'm like. And then she's like, well, when we took him to the doctor, I'm like, so when do we believe in doctors? I just want to be clear.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like I'm just unsure on what you're. Because you're like scared they're going to take him away.

[A]

Well, but so this is what happens. Like after all of this, he's not gaining any weight. So CPS shows up to take him.

[B]

The doctor call CPS because at this point he's like 16 years old. This has been going on for four years. And the parents aren't doing anything to help him.

[A]

And like Kyle, who may or may not be living at home at this point, is there. Rowan is in the kitchen, like trying to, literally trying to make himself a fruit salad. CPS is at the door. And Rowan at like 16 years old, thinks it's life or death. He thinks if CPS takes him, they're gonna force feed him, they're gonna make him take the vaccines. Life or death. According to the reenactment, he runs out the back door without any shoes on and disappears into the woods where he's living in a tent in the backyard and like knocking on his brother's window at night to bring him out fruit

[B]

into the woods 100ft away. He's in a tent 100ft away.

[A]

But the parents are like, we've been searching high and low night and day for him.

[B]

No, no, no. And so, but suddenly the older brother is like, you know what? Like to his parents, he's like, hey, mom.

[C]

I had already been telling my parents that I was going to go to Canada like before any of this happened. So when I did decide, oh, I'm kind of going to Canada. Canada, it didn't seem all that suspicious to people. He had always talked about how it might be fun to go to Canada. That's why we weren't immediately suspicious.

[B]

We didn't think this was suspicious because he always talked about going to Canada with my full chest. You guys are fucking idiots. The parents or you think we are? Well, because the timeline doesn't make sense

[A]

here in the sense that it lines up where like, so this is when the older one goes to Canada. The younger one is fully missing, by the way. Like, and I don't know if there were police reports were filed. I don't know what. Like, they don't get into that, that at all. But the older one just skips town. The younger one is just missing. The parents aren't recounting this time in their lives as though it was the darkest, saddest time in their life because their 16 year old is missing. Yeah, but this is how Will and Kyle end up in Canada.

[B]

Well, let me ask you a question. Here's what doesn't make sense to me. How does a child go missing when CPS is there to investigate what's happening with that child? Why was it like, how is that possible? And then did CPS just say, oh, what a shame, don't they want eyes on the kid? And then he disappears while they're there and his parents nor CPS notice that he's gone?

[A]

Yeah, I mean, the parents knew.

[B]

In my humble opinion, the parents knew or they turned a blind eye or they let it happen so that Will Rowan didn't have to take any vaccines or get medicine. They let him run out. There's no way in hell I'm going to sit here and believe that they. Oh my God. While CPS is in the house, the kid goes missing and nobody talks about it again.

[A]

No. That feels very, very implausible. And like, these were my questions too. Was like, were you out looking for him? Night and day they say they were like, the mom was like, we were looking in ditches and we were looking in construction sites.

[B]

She's like, we were looking for avocado

[A]

peels off and she's like, got missing persons flyer. But it's a reenactment. It's not like from the time. No, yeah, that makes sense. It makes sense the idea that the parents, the parents either knew or sort of like were willfully ignorant.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

Because there's also no contact between the older son and the parents. It's not like, like, if Daisy's like, dad, I'm moving to Canada, Great, call me when you get there. And then every day thereafter.

[B]

Also, the day after her sister goes missing, she's like, I'm going to go to Canada. Can I borrow 500 bucks?

[A]

I know.

[B]

And you're going to sit here with a straight face. Mom. Actually, she has a fudgeing smirk on, too. And, like.

[A]

But then I guess my question is, why would the parents have called the CBC and been like, those are my kids.

[B]

Because I think it got. It did get a little straight. Got too big, and there's probably some money in it. I don't know.

[A]

But also, like, if they didn't call, somebody else would have, like, hey, Carol, there are your kids on the tv, Right?

[B]

They had to get ahead of it a little bit, I guess. So the brothers just, like, walk, slash, hitchhike to the border and walk into Canada. Nobody asks them anything. No one wants their id.

[A]

They're telling of it. They, like, walked, like. Like, across the highway into Canada.

[B]

And no one rebuts that, right? Like, no, we have the Mounties here. Like, no one says, that's not what. I think that's what happened. What happened.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, I guess so. And, like, this is where they say, like, see, so much of our story was true because this is when they start living. Living in the woods. But they're once again, they're living 15ft behind the country store.

[B]

Right.

[A]

They're not living in the wilderness.

[B]

No one in this family knows what the truth actually is. And it pisses me off. Yeah, like, how dare. Don't, like, drop the truth to me.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

How round is the earth again? Oh, you think it's flat? Bullshit.

[A]

I do think, though, the thing to remember, at least in my opinion, is that, like, these kids are in a mental health crisis. Like, they're not.

[B]

I think Rowan is for sure.

[A]

They're not thinking rationally and, like, making, like, rational decisions. Like, I think these kids are, like. I don't want to say they're suffering, but, like, there's more going on than, like, just, like, two kids ran away.

[B]

I agree with that. More so with Rowan.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So, like, we see them reunited. Like, the parents fly to Canada to reunite with their sons. And this new show is filming it, which is a choice.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But they're, like, not at all concerned.

[A]

And they're not even really, like, the parents are like, how are you?

[B]

So good to see you.

[C]

Why did you stop calling us in December? Just, I don't know. So just a phone call would have helped, you know?

[A]

Hey, guys, why'd you stop calling us? Like, Daisy's missing for a year, and I'm reunited with her in a parking lot. Like, are you kidding? I'm hysterical on the ground.

[B]

Did you ever report your kid Missing.

[A]

Right. But that's my question.

[B]

Like, and that like your two sons left around the same time. How weird is that? And at one point the mom even says there was a part of her that didn't want them to be found.

[A]

I did not understand that at all.

[B]

She says, well, if Tom, you know, Kyle is taking, taking care of him in Canada, maybe that's a good solution. I'm like, you knew.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like you absolutely knew. They at least knew they were together.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

She slipped here. If Tom, if Kyle is taking care of him in Canada, maybe that's a good solution. So she knew they were together.

[A]

Yeah. They also just strike me as very hands off, you know, like suddenly like out of sight, out of mind. It's not their problem anymore. So whether or not they knew specifically where they were or what they were doing, it seems like they just weren't really thinking about it at all.

[B]

And I think they were kind of like over. Over being parents.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't think they really. That's what I mean when I say neglect.

[A]

Just like, I know I talk about this a lot but like coming from a household where there was a member of the family who was had having a severe mental health crisis for like a lot of years, I do understand the idea of. Maybe what she means by that is like we couldn't help him here, but if so if Kyle is helping him there, maybe that's a better solution.

[B]

They chose not to help him. They. I believe they could have helped him. They just chose to not.

[A]

Yeah. And I'm not saying their beliefs are right, but in their mind it's like, well, the only help available to them was like getting him into a hospital that was going to force him to do all the things they don't believe. I think that that's what they should have done. But like I can see in their warped way of thinking, like, well, we can't make him do that. So at least if he's there, he's somebody else's problem and he's not dead yet.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, it's interesting that they went to Canada, right. Specifically Canada.

[A]

Yeah. It's because they knew they were really nice and they'd give the money.

[B]

No. And their health care is pretty fudgeing great.

[A]

Truly.

[B]

But the point also, Will is dying and he's in the middle of a severe years long mental health crisis that's not being addressed and it's being enabled. And if my mom, if my parents, they finally found me and I looked like Will looked.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They would say, oh, My God. Like, they're. I can picture their fate. They would be side themselves and saying, what. What happened to you? What do you need? And they're like, hey, kids.

[A]

Yeah. They have a whole different kind of parents.

[B]

Right. Because we're also hearing all of this from these people, and, like, I just don't trust their perception of reality.

[A]

Exact.

[B]

So it's like. Okay.

[A]

Right. Because I think what we're not fully saying is that it's sort of like the mother would rather let Rowan do what he thinks he needs to do for his body and have that result in him die than do the traditional mainstream thing that we know would save him.

[B]

Sure. And it's.

[A]

And I'm not saying that. All I'm saying is I think that's what she's thinking.

[B]

Right. And at some point, though, your beliefs don't matter 100% if it's going against what science says or like, or if

[A]

it's going, like, if you're dealing with a child, you know what I mean, who's going to die based on the way that you're parenting, that the doctors

[B]

eventually had to call CPS on you because you're actively. I'm sure they presented them with a lot of options.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'm not defending the health care system in this country. I'm just saying, like, at some point, you have to look at your kid and say, you're wasting out your dying, and I can't let you die because I love you.

[A]

But I, Yeah, I, I, I think just what I'm like realizing in real time is the mom was maybe okay with him dying if as long as he was able to, like, treat himself at the his own terms.

[B]

Jesus Christ.

[A]

Which is crazy. Which is absolutely insane. But, like, I almost can come to no other conclusion.

[B]

Yes. Because I think that there's so much that she's not saying.

[A]

Yeah. The second she allowed him to, like, put weights on his legs and get

[B]

on the scale to, like, lie to

[A]

doctors, she's saying, I'm going to let you treat yourself.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know. Oh, well.

[B]

Now Rowan is diagnosed with orthorexia, which is basically an obsession with what the person believes is healthy eating, because this is not healthy eating.

[A]

And then we learned that, like, an immigration. Once they who these kids are, an immigration warrant is issued, they're deported, and quote, they went as quickly as they came.

[B]

Well, Will is in the hospital now, and he's being treated for this finally.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he gains about, like, 30 pounds in the time he's there. And while he's in the middle of treatment, finally getting help. Yeah. Canadian police arrest him and we like

[A]

learn Henry the from the RCMP is like we arranged a private air ambulance to transport Will back. And like this kid just like gets all on the plane. Like he never in as much as even turned back or gave a wave or said thank Tammy for what she did or I appreciate what the hospital did for me. Anything like that. He just got on the plane, never looked back. Doesn't turn around and say thank you. Doesn't say thank you to Tammy.

[B]

Not a word of gratitude from either of them to anybody I know.

[A]

Which is like not well people.

[B]

But you still like not well means you're an asshole too. Like, since when?

[A]

I just, I feel like I'm not defending the behavior. It's just the only way I can explain it. You know what I mean? Like, he just like, these are. Yeah. It just, it makes no sense to me. And I understand what Henry is saying. Like, it's crazy behavior.

[B]

It's crazy. Yeah. And so now it's 2016, 12 years after this fiasco in Canada, which is really the only way to call, the only word to describe it. Things are like not great for Rowan.

[A]

Well, the family has to declare bankruptcy because his medical bills are between 50 and 60 thousand dollars. The acid from the fruit tax dissolved his teeth.

[B]

He's got holes in his teeth from the sugar and the acid. He never went back to high school. He never furthered his education in any way.

[A]

No, he's like obsessed with eternal life. He's like an eternal lifer.

[B]

Okay. He's a self proclaimed philosopher and his whole, his whole thing is like living forever and death is brainwashing. Like, we don't have to die. It's totally preventable.

[C]

He's really obsessed with not dying. And so he spends his whole life. Life, you know, making videos about it. Yeah, that camera is the best investment I ever made.

[A]

And the mic and all of that. And the best investment you guys ever made.

[C]

They bought it for me.

[B]

Well, that you ever made, mommy. Because the parents are like this. He's enabled. He's not getting help.

[A]

The mom is literally here to say I'm really proud of Rowan for doing something he's really passionate about. No, I know.

[B]

No, he needs help. And I was on his Instagram today and like some of the things he says that will make you live forever include, so smoking, because apparently tobacco and nicotine are good for you. Urine, like soaking your feet in urine. He's also very dangerously, like psychotically, like stalking Women, but using AI videos of them, like, canoodling and kissing.

[A]

What?

[B]

And saying, like, I want you to marry me. Or, like, someday you'll realize that we're. We actually are married. Like, he is severely not. Okay.

[A]

We're going to talk about this in the next episode we're doing today about, like, how there's communities of online. The problem with it is that he found community online.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So everything that he thinks all of this is being reinforced in that echo

[B]

chamber, but not really, because his Instagram, he has, like, 20 Instagram followers. He has 200, you know.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's not like he has this thriving echo chamber.

[A]

Like, you don't need a thriving. You just need one. You need to, like, we see these people that are like, I don't want to watch my dog die, let alone myself die.

[B]

Right.

[A]

All you need is that small group of three people being like, me, too, bro.

[B]

Well, I don't know where he's finding it because he's got, like, no interaction. All the comments are like, bro, you're fucking crazy.

[A]

Well, and we see him at one point, he has a moment of humor, humanity, where he's, like, sobbing, talking about how he doesn't have any connections and he needs more connection in life.

[B]

And, you know, the. When it. When you boil it down, there's a lot of it that's very sad, because it's all based in fear. Like, he is terrified of dying. He's terrified of living. He's incredibly lonely.

[A]

It's fear and indoctrination.

[B]

And his parents did it. And at one point, he meets up with his brother at Flat Earth Pizza.

[A]

I know.

[B]

Can we leave the pizza out of it?

[A]

And it's crazy, too, because also, like, the other thing we haven't really mentioned at all is that Kyle, the older brother, has a complete savior complex.

[B]

And he's a dick, though, because he's like.

[A]

We see them in the end driving away in this car that I don't even know how it's running. Like, the car has been smashed in. And it, like, ends with Kyle being

[C]

like, I have to take care of him. Almost like a parent. Right. But I was never bothered by that, by Rowan looking up to me or trusting me. And I definitely won't allow anything to happen to you. Him.

[A]

I will take care of my brother. He's like, my son. I will never let anything bad happen to him. And I'm like, that is not the loving statement you think it is. No, that is a total savior complex that, like, will result in him dying.

[B]

But it ends. He's like, still being a smug asshole. He has no accountability for enabling this, no remorse for lying. He doesn't give a shit about what he did to Tammy and that whole town. And he says, he goes, it's not my job to tell the truth with that goddamn smirk. And I'm like, I love that.

[A]

Timothy from the CBC is back laughing. He's like, yes, it is. What are you talking about?

[B]

When you're actively scammin, scamming people and lying. And also, like, don't you lecture me on what the truth is, buddy. Yeah, I know what the fucking earth is and it's not flat. And how dare you bring pizza into this.

[A]

You know what it reminds me of? Tinker.

[B]

Hell, you know, I. I could have sworn you have known that since it happened.

[A]

No, but I, like, I feel like I learned something really funny.

[B]

I'm shocked you don't know the person who coined her.

[A]

I know.

[B]

Calling her that.

[A]

Spielberg.

[B]

My God.

[A]

Oh, my God, girl. We did Wild Boy Strangers in Town.

[B]

Sure did.

[A]

Holy majoli.

[B]

Oh, fuck those parents, man.

[A]

Don't forget, join the Facebook group. Check out our discord. There are links to both in our show notes.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Girl, what are we doing next?

[B]

The Skincare Queen and the Hitman. This is another the Curious Case of season two.

[A]

The Skincare Queen and the Hitman is crazy. Okay. I can't wait.

[B]

It is crazy. Lies on lies.

[A]

Lies on lies.

[B]

Lies on lies.

[A]

You get good skincare routine. You know what? No, really, we don't.

[B]

Everyone's skin looks awful.

[A]

Oh, no.

[B]

And I don't really understand what the deal is, but we'll dive into it when we dive into it.

[A]

All right? So stay tuned for the trailer for that fam. And we love you.

[B]

All right. We love you.

[A]

I keep looking, like into this camera by accident.

[B]

I am too.

[A]

It's like a reality show. We're not supposed to look into the camera.

[B]

Bravo. Bravo. Bravo. Bravo.

[A]

Even I know what that means. All right, bye.

[B]

Bye. You had a high Hollywood facialist who's accused of hiring a hitman to murder her business competitor.

[C]

She was being accused of plotting murder, which I still find it hard to believe. That's not the Don I know. And they were painting her as this horrible, vindictive, evil, unkind person.

[A]

And they released that much shot, which was a very rough mug shot for a beauty guru.

[B]

I couldn't believe my friend who's this high end skincare guru would be in prison.

[A]

It just seemed so nuts.

[B]

But the evidence looked bad. Get a jump on next summer with vrbo's early booking deals don't wait to claim your dream summer spot, whether that includes a good porch swing or a poolside lounger. When you book early, you get the best places at the best prices. But back to poolside loungers. With vrbo. You don't have to reserve any loungers. They're all yours. In fact, the whole private home is yours. Book with early booking deals and you can lounge around all summer long, however you please. Book with vrbo.

[A]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway this spring. Sweeten your day one sweet treat at a time. Now through May 26th. Whether you're shopping for gifts for friends and family or just want to pick me up for yourself, get great deals on your favorite sweet treats. Shop in store or online, and save on items like Reese's Peanut Butter Cups, Trident Sugar Free Gum, Albanese Gummy Bears, Kinder Wafer Eggs or Snickers Bars. Get these deals before they're gone off rent May 26. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.