500: TikTok Terror (from "Deadly Influence")

Summary

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True Crime Obsessed – Episode 500: "TikTok Terror" (from "Deadly Influence")

Air Date: May 14, 2026
Hosts: Jillian Betavali & Patrick Hines
Subject: The murder of Sania Khan, a Pakistani American influencer and photographer, and the intersection of social media, cultural expectations, domestic violence, and community silence.

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Episode Overview

This episode recaps Season 1, Episode 2 of the documentary series "Deadly Influence," which explores the life and tragic death of Sania Khan—a social media influencer whose story spotlights the dangers faced by women straddling multiple cultural expectations. With their signature blend of humor, poignancy, and outrage, Patrick and Jillian unpack Sania’s journey through personal, cultural, and digital challenges, ultimately revealing how the systems around her failed to protect her, leading to her murder by her estranged husband.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Stage: Sania’s Background and the Pressure of Dual Cultures

• Early Social Media Days: Sania was a MySpace enthusiast who found her voice and career in photography through digital platforms.
• Chattanooga’s Pakistani Muslim Community: Sania’s upbringing in a conservative environment created constant friction between American freedoms and Pakistani expectations.
  • Sidra (friend): “We tried to be achiba cheese. Right. Which means good girls, respect your elders. Biggest thing, dressing modestly. … I think Sania definitely struggled with that all her life.” (03:21)
• Strained Family Dynamics: The podcast explores how Sania and her peers tried to bridge the gap between family loyalty and self-identity.
  • Patrick reflects on the damage of having “expectations and rules that apply to one faction of people and forcing it on like the new up and coming generation.” (04:27)
  • Both hosts relate personally to the damage of being unable to be oneself within family and cultural structures.

2. Friendships, Creativity, and Early Love

• Supportive Friends: Sania’s circle of friends offered both insight and solidarity as she tackled familial and community pressures.
• First Love and Parental Disapproval: Sania’s first serious relationship was with a white man, Robert, which she felt unable to share with her parents due to cultural stigma.
  • Patrick: “It’s just so stressful and anxiety inducing to live a life where you have to hide something from two of two very important people in your life.” (09:28)

3. Family Change and the Culture of Silence

• Parents’ Divorce: The hosts discuss the ostracization Sania’s mother faced for initiating divorce, and how Sania internalized double-standards about living one's truth.
  • Sidra: “Her mother was ostracized, shunned for initiating the divorce.” (11:30)
• Patrick & Jillian emphasize the harm caused by systems that devalue women’s autonomy.

4. Career Success and Social Media Identity

• Photography Takes Off: By 2016, Sania's business was thriving—traveling, photographing weddings, and becoming a successful influencer on TikTok.
• Double Life: Sania juggled her online celebrity with real-world pressures for a stable, "respectable" career.
  • Friend: “She used TikTok as a platform and expanded her business.” (18:05)
• Parental & Community Tension: Success did not erase cultural skepticism about her career path.
  • “The problem is when her parents don't want to have to explain it's a real job, like I'm doing at the gym.” (18:30)

5. The Search for "Acceptability" in Love

• New Relationship: After breaking up with Robert, Sania meets Raheel—a Pakistani Muslim training to be a physician's assistant—believing this would bring family approval.
  • “She wanted to be in a marriage with somebody that her parents are gonna, like, love and celebrate…” (22:47)
• Toxic Double Standards: Raheel’s family stigmatizes Sania for having divorced parents; both families expect conformity and silence.
  • “The reason why it took the time is because she came from a divorced household. That's still a big stigma.” (26:34)

6. Signs of Danger and The Failing Support System

• Wedding Red Flags: At their wedding, Raheel’s violent behavior shocks both families and guests.
  • “Raheed apparently takes out a sword, which is part of his wedding suit, and slams it down on the table... her friends are like, I saw, like, black in his eyes.” (29:15-30:03)
• Move to Chicago & Escalation: Isolated in a new city, Sania faces increasing emotional abuse and denigration of her career.
  • “He's telling her that her job isn't a real job. His family's never going to approve of it. She's got to, like, give it up and do something real.” (34:43)
• Violence and Denial: Raheel attempts a murder-suicide by trying to pull Sania off their 28th floor balcony; instead of support, Sania is told to stay quiet.
  • Sidra: "Her in laws were refusing to look at the fact that Brielle had a serious problem." (38:03)
• Community Silence: The importance of family reputation overrides Sania’s safety time and again.

7. Escape and Brief Empowerment

• Secret Rescue: With a friend’s help, Sania escapes Raheel and begins planning a new life.
  • Meru: “We ran to the elevator. We were shaking, out of breath, adrenaline was pumping, thinking that he had followed us. But we made it.” (42:07)
• Breaking the Silence Online: Sania begins posting openly about divorce and abuse, finding solidarity and support from other South Asian women while facing escalating harassment and threats online.
  • “My parents have boycotted me since I got divorced. See you later. Mom and dad with the peace sign.” (45:19)
  • “Glorifying divorce and disrespecting privacy is filthy. Why play with fire like that?” (46:58)

8. The Final Tragedy

• Murder-Suicide: As Sania planned to start over, Raheel traveled 700 miles, gained access to her apartment under false pretenses, and shot her before killing himself.
  • “Upon arrival, they heard a gunshot, broke in and found Sanya's body unresponsive. They then found another body with a gunshot wound to the head. It was Raheel.” (52:45)
• Community Response and Continued Blaming: Even after her murder, some within the community continue to blame Sania, echoing cultural silencing and misogyny.
  • Hira: “And yet the community is absolutely silent. Time and time again in our Communities, we talk about how women need to be complicit to the abuse that they face.” (56:12)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Sidra (on community expectations): “We tried to be good girls, respect our elders...but our parents did not understand the [American] culture. And so I think Sania definitely struggled with that all her life.” (03:21)
• Patrick (on cultural shame): “Shame is relative. It's so... Not everyone agrees on what is shameful.” (04:18)
• Jillian (on hypocrisy): “Why is it okay for her mother to get to, like, live her truth...but it's not okay for Sonya to do it?” (12:05)
• Grant (on parental expectations): “They had certain expectations placed on her that didn't mesh with the culture she was exposed to at our school.” (06:32)
• Patrick (on signs of danger): “We knew this on their wedding day....he reacts violently to things.” (57:51)
• Gabrielle (on their bond): “…twin flame, soulmate, soul sister…” (48:34)
• Meru (on getting the tattoo): “I'm so happy. I just had to mark my body with her memory.” (58:21)

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Important Timestamps

• [01:52–04:47]: Hosts discuss the pitfalls of dual cultural standards in South Asian Muslim American families.
• [09:03–11:21]: Sania’s relationship with Robert; pressures to hide due to family.
• [13:08–15:09]: Professional and social media breakthrough; pressure to follow traditional career paths.
• [22:18–28:14]: The search for parental acceptance in dating; meeting Raheel and his family’s prejudices.
• [28:19–31:07]: The wedding; public and private conflicts escalate.
• [33:38–37:01]: Sania speaks out on a podcast but hides the truth about her marriage’s state.
• [37:13–39:04]: The first attempt on her life and her mother’s silence.
• [42:07–43:42]: The escape and planning to start over.
• [45:03–47:50]: Sania’s viral advocacy online, responses from supporters and detractors.
• [52:06–53:05]: The murder-suicide.
• [56:06–58:33]: Friends, community activism, and memorial.
• [58:50–59:11]: Hosts highlight the continued need for resources and conversation.

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Cultural & Social Commentary

• Empowerment vs. Risk: Sania’s digital openness helps countless women, but brings misogynistic backlash.
• Community Silence: The episode scrutinizes how communities prioritize reputation over safety, perpetuating cycles of violence.
• Breaking Cycles: Sania’s online advocacy and the solidarity among her friends represent hope and the growing cultural shift among second-generation immigrants.

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Conclusion

Patrick and Jillian close with reminders of the importance of support systems, the dangers of protecting abusive individuals in the name of “honor,” and the power of visibility for those struggling in silence. Sania’s friends honor her with matching tattoos, her story fueling conversations about victims’ rights and the need to end cycles of cultural oppression.

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Resource Mentioned:
For help regarding domestic violence, visit thehotline.org.

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Transcript

[Jillian Betavali]

I know this is coming out in the spring, but, like, we've finally had a day with no snow here in New York. It's February. We're in the wayback machine, fam.

[Patrick Hines]

It's true. We're at the end of February. March is coming.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So I guess we'll see what March brings.

[Jillian Betavali]

We'll see. Hi. Jillian Betavali. Hello.

[Patrick Hines]

Patrick Hines.

[Jillian Betavali]

What are we talking about today?

[Patrick Hines]

Welcome to the bonus episodes, everybody. Happy Thursday. We're also recording this on a Thursday. So that's something that is similar to the thing. Yeah, this is our third bonus episode. It's that series Deadly Influence, Season 1, Episode 2. This is called TikTok Terror, which I think is a terrible name for what this is.

[Jillian Betavali]

That's the thing. When we get these episodes that are well done, but, like, they have to do the salacious title, we don't appreciate it. What is this? I know. Do you think the world is still going to be here in April?

[Patrick Hines]

I don't know. That's a really good question.

[Jillian Betavali]

We really, like. We should make these just in case.

[Patrick Hines]

Just in case.

[Jillian Betavali]

You know what I mean?

[Sidra]

Sonya was a burst of sunshine and positive energy, man. It was infectious.

[Patrick Hines]

She was bold and funny. Everyone felt like her friend because everyone was.

[Friend 1]

I can't talk right now.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm doing Hot girl.

[Friend 2]

She was proud to be a Pakistani woman. She was very proud of how she modernized her culture.

[Friend 3]

She made a lot of women feel safe, seen and heard. But being a Pakistani Muslim influencer online, it can get very toxic very quickly. Harassment, bullying, death threats, possibility of online threats. Stepping over to real life is actually very real.

[Friend 1]

There was only positives until she had that day where her own life was actually at risk.

[Jillian Betavali]

All right, so our victim's name is Sania Khan. She is a Pakistani woman growing up in the United States. And I said, oh, my God, she's of my generation. She was a MySpace girly, because they're

[Patrick Hines]

saying that she loves social media. And I saw, like, the quick MySpace thing, and I was like, oh, shit. MySpace. Shout out.

[Jillian Betavali]

Were you on MySpace?

[Patrick Hines]

Barely.

[Jillian Betavali]

Me too, barely. Actually, I met Steve on MySpace.

[Patrick Hines]

Really?

[Jillian Betavali]

Yeah. We met on MySpace, but it was. Can you believe, like, the kids don't even know what that is. Wow, how far we've come.

[Patrick Hines]

It's. I mean, there. I remember that was, like, really big. You could have, like, music on your page. There was like a whole five or top eight or whatever, which was a thing.

[Jillian Betavali]

Fam. Imagine this. You would have to rank your friends. People would go to your MySpace page and then, like, you would see the top five. Like you would. And I remember getting into fights with people and moving them around.

[Patrick Hines]

It was, like, at random. It was like a first at random, and then I think you pick. And then that guy Tom was always in there.

[Jillian Betavali]

Oh, God, the founder. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, she loved MySpace. That's where she got started. We meet her friend Sidra.

[Patrick Hines]

All of Sonya's friends are fucking awesome.

[Jillian Betavali]

They're amazing.

[Patrick Hines]

Sidra met Sonya in the early 2000s. They were like 9 or 10 years old, and they met at a big party on New Year's Eve. And Sidra was talking to her cousin, and Sonya just, like, jumped right into her life. Like, hi, I'm Sania Khan. And Sidra goes. True Sana Khan style.

[Jillian Betavali]

I love that. Bring that energy whenever you meet me at a party.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Betavali]

Come jump into the conversation and say, hi. Give me your name.

[Patrick Hines]

I love it so much.

[Jillian Betavali]

Me too. They all live in Chattanooga, Tennessee. There's a big Muslim community there that's a major part of, like, what this episode is about. And Sidra tells us that the Muslim community there is very conservative.

[Sidra]

We tried to be achiba cheese. Right. Which means good girls, respect your elders. Biggest thing, dressing modestly. We don't bring shame to our families. We want to be assimilated into the American community, but our parents did not understand the culture. And so I think Sania definitely struggled with that all her life.

[Patrick Hines]

Being Pakistani American, they had two different identities, and she says that they're oftentimes in conflicts with each other.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

I want to give a note here that Sidra speaks Urdu a lot as a way to infuse their culture into the telling of the story. I think it's very, very cool. She'll say the word or phrase in Urdu and then in English. So it's like a verbal aka it's very verbal, like blank slash, blank. I think it's awesome.

[Jillian Betavali]

Well, because she says the Urdu words for good girls. Like, they tried to be good girls. They tried to respect their elders. Lots of rules.

[Patrick Hines]

Lots of rules.

[Jillian Betavali]

Too many rules as far as I'm concerned. And, like, I guess I can say it here, but I'm going to say it all the way throughout. Like, your fudgeing kids be who they are.

[Patrick Hines]

I think it's ridiculous because the whole thing is like, don't bring shame to your families. I'm like, shame is relative. It's so.

[Jillian Betavali]

But it's. It's okay for one mother to do it, but not another. Like, it makes me insane.

[Patrick Hines]

But, like, not Everyone agrees on what is shameful. It's all of these, like, expectations and rules that apply to one faction of people and forcing it on like the new up and coming generation.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yep. And nobody can live up to it. It makes everybody sad and angry and depressed and it makes all the kids lie to their. It makes me crazy.

[Patrick Hines]

Me too. And no matter what they do, they're going to fail.

[Jillian Betavali]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

The goalposts will always be moved.

[Jillian Betavali]

And I understand, I really get it, that it's a. They love their kids. You know what I mean? They want the best for their kids. They want the. They want the amer. What they think of as the American dream for their kids. I understand it comes from a place of love, but like, I guess for me it's just like being a gay kid who was allowed to be out in the 90s and be who I was and express myself. Like, I can't. And I think about this a lot. The kind of person, and I have friends whose experience this was, who could not be out, had to pretend to be straight to like, in their minds, keep the love of their parents. And it really fucks people up.

[Patrick Hines]

Of course, it's super damaging.

[Jillian Betavali]

Crazy.

[Patrick Hines]

So Sidra says that as young girls they wanted to be assimilated into the American community, but the parents and the elders were not into that at all. So it's one of those situations where they didn't understand the culture, so they just rejected it.

[Jillian Betavali]

And so the kids are trying to live in both world. Like they love their parents, they want to please their parents, but they also want to live their lives. They're going to school with a bunch of American kids. They want to be like their friends

[Patrick Hines]

here in Chattanooga, Tennessee, we're going to like live the life here. But the parents wanted to live there, but not let them experience it.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yes, we meet Grant. I love Grant. He and Sonya met in homeroom in ninth grade.

[Patrick Hines]

So cute.

[Jillian Betavali]

I know homeroom. I want to know more about Grant.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, like what?

[Jillian Betavali]

Does he have a boyfriend or a girlfriend? Yeah, we don't get an answer to that question. What is Grant? It's not my business. I understand. I don't have a right to know, but he's just seems like the sweetest guy and, you know, if he's like a straight guy and he's got a girl best friend, I love it. I think it's more likely not that, but who knows?

[Patrick Hines]

I was stuck in homeroom. I thought that was the cutest thing. I was like, homeroom. When was the last time you heard that? I know, but Grant says they had a very creative connection. They were photographers. They took photograph photos of each other, and they were, like, working through that, like, really, like, creative phase in high school. And Grant. It's not a phase, honestly. But Grant echoes that.

[Grant]

Sonya's relationship with her mother and father was strained and confusing, at least from my perspective as a white teenage boy. They had certain expectations placed on her that didn't mesh with the culture she was exposed to at our school.

[Patrick Hines]

Strained and confusing.

[Jillian Betavali]

Well, and that's interesting for him to say because he's the only non Muslim friend of hers that we meet, because

[Patrick Hines]

he says, like, that's my perspective as a white boy. He literally says like a white teenage boy.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yes, yes. And he loves Sonya a lot.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And that's hard when your friend is thriving or trying to thrive and be who they are. Like, she's an incredible photographer.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And she's finding that out about herself and, like, learning about herself. And yet she can't be proud of it or really talk about it freely. Except with Grant, you know, it's still, like, a secret in some way because it'll be, like, disappointing.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yes. And it's not even just her family. Like, it's the whole community.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jillian Betavali]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Jillian Betavali]

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[Patrick Hines]

Remember when it used to be like, hey, here's an 18 piece pots and pan set. That's a million dollars and you're not going to use half of them. No, we're doing this four piece cookware set.

[Jillian Betavali]

No. And like, we love our place in our house. We had, like, the same pots and pans that we used forever. We made the swish. It is so amazing. We know that we're, like, feeding, like, us and our child, like, stuff that isn't toxic and harmful for them, which, like, you got to get that stuff out of your kitchen.

[Patrick Hines]

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[Jillian Betavali]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Jillian Betavali]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Jillian Betavali]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Jillian Betavali]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Jillian Betavali]

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[Patrick Hines]

I know. And the no risk.

[Jillian Betavali]

Exactly. So Sonia goes to college and in her freshman year she meets a guy named Robert and they start dating. They loved each other. He was a white guy. There's a lot of like stigma from her family about this relationship. But she, like all of her friends are describing him as like her first real great love. Also, like, we're going to learn that Sonya was like a true romantic and the fact that she has this like first, like it's such a big deal

[Patrick Hines]

in her life and it's just so like stressful and anxiety inducing to live a life where you have to hide something from two of two very important people in your life. Like Sonia was so conflicted because as her friends are telling us, like she wanted her parents to be proud of her and she's not doing anything wrong. No, she's in love and she's creative and like that is causing her stress and anxiety and that's sucks and like,

[Jillian Betavali]

you know, so many of us know that, that feeling of like loving somebody and wanting your parents to love that person too. You know, I remember the first time I showed my mom a picture of Steve. Really the first thing my mom gorgeous was my mom. It was a headshot back from when he was an actor. It was a black and white headshot. Yeah, it was wild. It was a very cute. He had a very cute spiky little lesbian haircut.

[Patrick Hines]

You know, it was. Was it a button down? Was it casual?

[Jillian Betavali]

I'm trying.

[Patrick Hines]

I have it like the fun headshot or like the serious.

[Jillian Betavali]

It was somewhere in the middle. He looks really cute in it.

[Patrick Hines]

I' sure. I'm not, I'm not doubting that.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yeah, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Was it like the, oh, I have personality or was it like I'm very.

[Jillian Betavali]

It was more personality. It was definitely more personality.

[Patrick Hines]

That's so funny.

[Jillian Betavali]

I forgot that he used to be an actor.

[Patrick Hines]

Really?

[Jillian Betavali]

Like, it's been so long.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Betavali]

You know what I mean? And I never really knew him as an actor because, like, he was an actor in D.C. and he did it for 10 years, and he was, like, on the national tour of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, performed at the White House. I know he was nominated for a Helen Hayes Award, but I never knew him as an actor.

[Friend 2]

Which White House?

[Jillian Betavali]

The Bush. Which is funny, because when I first met him and I saw pictures of him performing at the White House, I thought he was a Republican. I was like, oh. But I went on the date. I was like, well, let's see how this goes. And it was not that he just performed at the White House.

[Patrick Hines]

It was different then.

[Jillian Betavali]

Well, he performed for Michelle Obama's best

[Patrick Hines]

friend forced to be president. Yeah, he's a war criminal. But he was our war criminal.

[Jillian Betavali]

He was our war criminal.

[Patrick Hines]

Here's the deal. Sonia's parents get divorced. They weren't, like, quote, supposed to in this culture. You know how I feel about religion and divorce. Fucking get divorced. Please don't murder anyone. Don't oppress anyone. Like, we did this in Mr. And Mrs. Murder.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

I'd rather, like, commit murder than get divorced. It makes me crazy. But when Saadi's in college, they get divorced, and it takes a toll on the family. And Sidra, her awesome friend, is here

[Sidra]

to be like, when it comes to South Asian family norms, we're really good at keeping the facade alive of a happy marriage. But when things go sour, they go down sour real quick. She got to see the other side of the Chattanooga Muslim community. Her mother was ostracized, shunned for initiating the divorce.

[Jillian Betavali]

We learned that Sonya's mother was ostracized by the community because she was the one who initiated the divorce. But here's my thing. Sonia's mom, why is it okay for you to live your. Now, listen, I've got a lot of questions about the dad. Was this an abusive relationship?

[Patrick Hines]

No. No.

[Jillian Betavali]

I'm so glad that for whatever the reason is, the mom got out. I. I'm very happy for her for that. But why is it okay for her mother to get to, like, live her truth and her mother to do the thing that's right for her, but it's not. It's not okay for Sonya to do it.

[Patrick Hines]

I totally agree.

[Jillian Betavali]

For me, it's like Sonya's mother understands that, like, the system doesn't always work, that this whole, like, you, like, we are going to be told that in their community, you stay married no matter what.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Betavali]

Sonya's mother understands that there are cases in which that that is not true because she lived through it.

[Patrick Hines]

And it's also just how they're treating women.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, because Sonia resents how her mother was treated not just by the community, but by her father.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

We're told he took a, quote, authoritarian approach to the situation. Meaning what?

[Jillian Betavali]

Well, and that's right. Like, I wish we had more information on that, but we don't. And this also damages Sonia's relationship with her dad. Like, she lives with her mother when she's home from school or whatever, sees the dad occasionally, but there's like a fracture in that relationship too.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. So we meet Hira, who's an influencer. She goes by supportive South Asian cis, and she says that a lot of South Asian parents push certain careers on their children so they'll be set up for the future.

[Friend 3]

Like most immigrant communities, Pakistani communities, you have to become a doctor or a lawyer or an engineer, because those are careers that will make you more stable in life. Sonia actually did do as her parents wished and she went to UTC and pursued a education in psychology.

[Patrick Hines]

I thought it was cool that once she like had a passion and followed it, end of story. Like, that's what she's going to do. But I thought maybe psychology was a little bit, a way to give her parents like a little bit of a bone, but kind of not really. Like, it's still like, I'm still studying science. Like, I can still be a doctor of this thing, but I'm also going to take beautiful photos.

[Jillian Betavali]

And that's my other thing about photography is I am the worst photo. Like, I cannot take good pictures on my iPhone. I told you this. I think I took a photography class in college with a camera that self focused and my pictures were still blurry. Like, I am, I am that bad at taking. I'm like the guy in that episode that we did forever ago when they're hearing this. But like last week where they. He took the Polaroid of that. Oh yeah, that dolly in prison. And like it's half in the picture. Like you can't see anything in it.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm the person who sees like, oh, filmed on an iPhone, taken on an iPhone. I'm like, which iPhone? I know I can never. It's always telling me to clean my camera lens. Do you get that message? Stop yelling at me.

[Jillian Betavali]

You guys. Leave her alone.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm like, I did.

[Jillian Betavali]

I know. I just, I don't know what is wrong with me that I cannot take a good picture. Like, no, I agree.

[Patrick Hines]

It'll look good when I'm saying, like, me. Like, I. Me too.

[Jillian Betavali]

I just don't. So the fact that Sonya was not just, like, great at this, she was, like, beyond great at this is like a magical. It's like. It's like a skill I could never have.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Jillian Betavali]

And she's the same as being an engineer.

[Patrick Hines]

She has, like, the eye for it and she. The passion for it. And so, like. But the thing about being a photographer is that this wasn't, like, quote, normal,

[Sidra]

and that's not normal. She didn't care. She didn't let Lo Kia Keenge. What are people gonna say?

[Patrick Hines]

Dictate that Sonya didn't care what people were gonna say, which I'm sure was, like, hammered into her her entire life.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yeah, I mean, like, you're talking to two people who, like, make a living making a podcast. What, Like a ridiculous idea of a thing to do.

[Patrick Hines]

I've always been, oh. Oh, really? Oh, like, about anything I've ever done in any creative space, it's always like,

[Jillian Betavali]

oh, it's so funn. When we first started doing this and it became our real job, and people would ask me what I did, I'm like, I make a podcast. I swear it's a real job. Then for, like, eight years, I stopped saying that because I was like, I think it speaks for itself. I just joined this new gym, and I started meeting people, and they're like, what do you do? I'm like, I'm a podcaster. I swear it's a real job. For some reason, I'm back to that.

[Patrick Hines]

No, I've gotten. I've gotten to the point where when people hear that, they go, oh, my God, Really? Like, they think it's a very cool thing.

[Jillian Betavali]

And I'm like, oh, I know.

[Patrick Hines]

That's so nice.

[Jillian Betavali]

The best is when people are like, oh, you make a pot. And then they look it up and they're like, oh, damn. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Betavali]

I'm like, I know it's good.

[Patrick Hines]

It's nice to not have to always explain it anymore.

[Jillian Betavali]

I don't know why. I'm back to saying, I swear it's a real job. I don't know why.

[Patrick Hines]

You shouldn't do that anymore.

[Jillian Betavali]

I know. It is a real job.

[Patrick Hines]

My uncle said to me recently, also named Mike. I'm surrounded by a lot of mics in my life.

[Jillian Betavali]

That's true.

[Patrick Hines]

His son is also named Mike. But anyway, he.

[Jillian Betavali]

All right, that's enough. No more mics in that family.

[Patrick Hines]

I know. It's so much. But just in my life, you have

[Jillian Betavali]

a lot of mics.

[Patrick Hines]

I have so many. They're all great. But he. He said to me, he was like, you know, because there was a time where I was, like, struggling and, like, my college story is, like, crazy and whatever. And he said he was like, I never knew, like, what you were gonna do, but I always knew no matter what it was, you were gonna be successful at it. Like, no matter where you landed, I knew it was gonna be great. You just needed to figure out what it was.

[Jillian Betavali]

I was like, I would have thought that about you, too. My sister recently said that to me.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm not saying it as a humble brat. You. No, no, no, no. I know that.

[Jillian Betavali]

But, like, you are that. You are that kind of person.

[Patrick Hines]

You know, dark for a while, and I didn't even know. I didn't even trust myself about that, you know?

[Jillian Betavali]

Well, I should be to you privately, like, publicly, like, you're an only child. You have parents that are successful. You never. The. One of the things that I am so amazed about by you is that the idea of asking your parents for help back when you were a bartender and you were. Was never even crossed your mind. You would just never have done it. And, you know, being a kid, that for whom, like, that's not an option. I'm always, like, jealous of kids for whom that is an option. And to meet one for whom that would be an option, who would never have it blows my mind about you.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Betavali]

Which is why that's what I'm talking about. When. If I'd known you longer when we were younger, before we were doing this, I would have had the same thought. I would have been like, she's going to. Whatever she's going to do, she's going to be successful.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, that's very nice. And.

[Jillian Betavali]

But that is why. That is my proof as to why that is true.

[Patrick Hines]

If I, you know, like I always said, if. If we needed to move home during COVID like, that could have obviously been an option. It's not like they would have said no, but it was something I just wanted to do.

[Jillian Betavali]

I think it's amazing about you, but that's why people think that about you, because you're just. You're going to. You're scrappy and you're going to make it work.

[Patrick Hines]

I just mean that should be the norm is my point. Yeah, like, it should be the norm to be like, oh, you're a photographer. That's. That's cool.

[Jillian Betavali]

Well, like, when you're seeing. She's having so much success. Like, you know, this is where her sort of like social media and her work life sort of come together.

[Friend 2]

In 2016, her photography business just started going bonkers. She was out of town every weekend going to like, awesome places to shoot people. And then she started recording herself, putting her thoughts out there.

[Friend 1]

She became this traveling photographer. She used TikTok as a platform and expanded her business.

[Jillian Betavali]

Like, I can understand a parent being like, you've been trying this photography thing for 10 years and you're not really. It's not work. No. For Sonya, like, it was working. She becomes sought after. She's traveling the country, she's going to all these cool places, she's making money, she's building a social media following. Like, it's working.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Betavali]

Her. What's the problem?

[Patrick Hines]

Everyone stops.

[Jillian Betavali]

The problem is when her parents don't want to have to explain it's a real job, like I'm doing at the gym.

[Patrick Hines]

It's more about them and what they have to say and what the community's gonna. Some woman can't even get out of whatever this really. It was. If you're getting divorced. It wasn't working. Let's just say that I'm not gonna assign what it was. It wasn't working. She's ostracized from the community by getting out of that. That's crazy.

[Jillian Betavali]

And like, I understand that it's cultural and I don't wanna sound judgmental, but we're here, we are sitting in this room because this system costs this woman her life.

[Patrick Hines]

And about that system, like, her friend Meru is here. Cause they met on social media and they bonded over their upbringing and their family life. What it was like to be both a Muslim and American. And she's like, we were trying to rewrite all of these rules that were like forced upon us. And she says that Sonia made the religion what it means to her rather than what everyone else says it should be.

[Jillian Betavali]

I wrote that down too. Because it's not like Sonia was shunning the religion. She wasn't. She wanted to be a part of it, you know, and she. But like, she wanted to have religion be what it is for her, which is like what I think about. Like, my mom is gay and my mom, like, came out in the Catholic Church and like, wanted to stay because my mom loved the cat, but she wanted to make it work for her.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Jillian Betavali]

Which is what I think religion should aspire.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. That like, doing it the other way is just by definition oppressive.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

It just.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Is right.

[Jillian Betavali]

I mean, and literally that's why we're here.

[Friend 2]

Yeah.

[Jillian Betavali]

So now we're with Olivia. She's another social media friend and she, once again, another friend saying Sonia was the best photographer ever.

[Patrick Hines]

But also like Sonia had big dreams of, she wanted to be in a marriage, she wanted a big family. She loved this thriving photography career. And so like she, when she meets people like Olivia who say like, she, it's not, not just that she was pursuing photography.

[Jillian Betavali]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

She was excellent at it. And she would capture these beautiful moments in beautiful ways and she becomes like a wedding photographer. She loved love and people are talking

[Jillian Betavali]

about how like the photography is great. She's using social media to promote her photography, but the social media is also blowing up.

[Patrick Hines]

Right?

[Jillian Betavali]

So they're saying it's like she has two full time jobs. She's like a full time photographer and a full time influencer and she's making money. At one point she's like paying her rent through her TikTok videos.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. Like by 2016, Sonia's photography career has been skyrocketing. She's always out of town for work. Her friends describe her as a traveling photographer. Like it doesn't matter where the gig was. If someone wanted her to photograph their wedding event, whatever, like, she would go. She was kicking ass.

[Jillian Betavali]

And people are jealous. Like she gets to travel for this job that she loves. Girl, Home Chef is back. You know that I always loved Home Chef but that I've like re loved it even more since I actually started cooking for my family sometimes because it

[Patrick Hines]

makes it so easy. Like the fresh food is delivered to your door, the recipes are really easy to follow, the meals taste great. It's a no brainer.

[Jillian Betavali]

I got to tell you. They've got all kinds of like meals for all kinds of schedules. So we're talking if you need 30 minute meals, oven ready tray meals, those are the ones I like to make. Or even a quick microwave lunch. Home Chef has got you totally covered.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And people really love it. Home Chef is rated number one by users of other meal kits for quality, convenience, value, taste and recipes. And you know, I know from meal kits, so for sure.

[Jillian Betavali]

And speaking of value, fam, it's super affordable. Home Chef customers save an average of $86 per month on groceries. 86 bucks?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. So like, you're eating well, you're saving time, you're saving money.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

You don't have to have that awful conversation. What are we doing for dinner tonight? Guess what?

[Jillian Betavali]

You already picked it a week ago and it's in your Fridge. And it's going to take you, like, less than 30 minutes to make, and your house is going to smell like a restaurant.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay, there you go. Done. Sold.

[Jillian Betavali]

So, fam. For a limited time, Home Chef is offering our listeners 50% off and free shipping for your first box, plus free dessert for life.

[Patrick Hines]

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[Jillian Betavali]

chef.com TCO for 50% off your first box and free dessert for life.

[Patrick Hines]

Home chef.com TCO must be an active subscriber to receive the free dessert.

[Jillian Betavali]

And you're going to want to be, like, you're going to want to be.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, it's like a winner.

[Jillian Betavali]

It's a win.

[Friend 1]

Win.

[Jillian Betavali]

So it's 2017, and her relationship with Robert ends. Remember, he was the guy that she met in college.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Betavali]

And, like, she was honestly a little bit caving to the pressure of her parents to meet a South Asian man to bring home because she wanted to

[Friend 1]

have a strong relationship with her mother and father. So she needed to find the right person to make them happy, to make them proud.

[Grant]

She decided on dating a South Asian person that she could bring home to mom and dad.

[Jillian Betavali]

Once again, she wants to be in a marriage with somebody that her parents are gonna, like, love and celebrate, and it's not gonna be this white guy.

[Patrick Hines]

And she was really scared of falling in love with the wrong. The quote, wrong person.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

That breaks my heart.

[Jillian Betavali]

I know. And that's, like, in my opinion, that's like, a young person thing. Like, I get that too. But I think in her mind, family and marriage is beyond just the husband. It's like, my parents have to love them, and they're gonna be the grandparents. And what? Like, she honestly doesn't want to rock the boat. She wants to make everybody happy.

[Patrick Hines]

So when she's on these dating apps, she's, like, only looking for the type of guy her parents will approve of, which makes me crazy because she's not even putting in all of the things. What if she wants another photographer? What if she wants someone who's also creative or isn't a doctor, lawyer, engineer, which are all great things. But maybe Sonia doesn't want that, and that has to be okay.

[Jillian Betavali]

I couldn't agree more. And she meets this guy, Raheel. He's training to be a physician's assistant. And like the friends are saying, he was charismatic, he was sweet. He was Pakistani and Muslim, just like Sonya and Grant. Grant. My friend Grant, who may or may not have a boyfriend, likes him because he knows how to present himself right. I like that about Grant.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, I think her friends would appreciate that because she is so awesome, and she really does know what she wants in terms of this long term relationship. So I think, like, she wouldn't appreciate someone who showed up like a schlub

[Jillian Betavali]

who doesn't, like, want to be with somebody who makes a good first impression

[Patrick Hines]

or like, oh, you're coming to meet me for our date. Like, this must mean something to you because, you know.

[Jillian Betavali]

You know, like, that's the thing. Their dating life sounded awesome because she lives in Dallas and he lived in Atlanta.

[Friend 1]

Sonia and Raheel kept a relationship through weekend getaways. They often did camping trips.

[Friend 3]

Raheel was very sweet to her. He would fly in and surprise her. Would send her gifts and flowers on Valentine's Day.

[Jillian Betavali]

They're taking weekend camping trips, and they're like, you know, like, they're doing this sort of, like, jet set, sort of early relationship thing, which your face is like, fuck this.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, I think it could be great. But based on what we know or what we're told that Sonya wants, it's hard to, like, really dive into the everyday life with someone like, that is super fun. I love that idea. But based on what she wants, it's kind of hard to get to know someone where every. When everything you do is this big adventure. What about sitting down, being like, tell me about your childhood. What was your worst breakup? Or what was your.

[Jillian Betavali]

You know, I was thinking about that because I'm like, you know what? Like, how I kind of love the idea. Cause I'm a workaholic, so I love the idea that, like, Monday to Friday I can, like, work, work, work, work, work. And then, like, weekends are for the relationship.

[Patrick Hines]

You might, like, save some of the. The bad stuff or some of the.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Not perfect stuff, because, like, we only have the weekend. Like, you really got to get into it if you want to build something that we're told Sonya really wants.

[Jillian Betavali]

I love my husband very much, but I would maybe when, like, when Daisy's older and out of the house, I'm like, steve, go live in Palm Springs for six months and just come back to New York on the weekend.

[Patrick Hines]

And then you'll go back and forth.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yeah, that's great. I would miss him a lot. I didn't see him all day today, and I was. I called him and I was. I know he was at the office. I was working at home, and I called him before I came. I'm like, I haven't seen you all day. Like, I miss you. Which is Weird for. Because we are always together or in

[Patrick Hines]

contact with each other, like, always.

[Jillian Betavali]

I mean, we. We have to be between Daisy and work and, you know, just, like, life or whatever and. But yeah. So I don't think I would actually like that in practice, but it sounded really, like, fun and.

[Sidra]

Fun.

[Patrick Hines]

You just want to be bicoastal. Just be bicoastal. That's what it is.

[Jillian Betavali]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Stop making up these, like, fantasies that don't make any sense. Just be the bicoastal girly that you want to be.

[Jillian Betavali]

I do want to be bi. Coastal.

[Patrick Hines]

You know, that's really what it is.

[Jillian Betavali]

I've got all these gay friends.

[Patrick Hines]

Don't put it on Steve.

[Jillian Betavali]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Anyway. Anyway, we are told that Sonya really, really to marry him mostly so that she could, quote, show him off to the community and, like, he ticked all the right boxes. So maybe her family won't make her life a living hell. I mean, they're still gonna do it for the photography, but maybe this will help if she marries a physician's assistant.

[Jillian Betavali]

But, like, it took him five years to propose.

[Sidra]

The reason why it took the time is because she came from a divorced household. That's still a big stigma.

[Friend 2]

I know that there was some resentment from Raheel's family and the way that they saw Sonia, but she can't help that her parents made the choices that

[Jillian Betavali]

they did because she came from a divorced household.

[Patrick Hines]

I know.

[Jillian Betavali]

Everyone. Fuck off.

[Patrick Hines]

Fuck off. Lighten up.

[Jillian Betavali]

Lighten up.

[Patrick Hines]

Get a grip. Lighten up. Calm down and, like, worry about yourself for five seconds.

[Jillian Betavali]

And honestly, like, we're gonna learn later. Not only does she come from a divorced household, she's a fucking photographer.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God.

[Jillian Betavali]

I don't know if we told you about this, but she's a photographer.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, but honestly, like, these are the conversations. Like, he probably lied.

[Jillian Betavali]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

To his parents about what she did. Or, like, don't worry, I'll talk her out of it.

[Jillian Betavali]

Like, it's. Look, and once again, I know it's cultural, and I know it comes from a place of, like, wanting the best. I know that that's where it comes from. But, like, it. Her life.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm just. I feel. I feel less and less inclined to make excuses for it when it's so damaging to so many people.

[Jillian Betavali]

I know. I can't. I think that it's hard to imagine what it would be like to be in the community, like, when it. When it's so much bigger than just you or your family. Like. Like, the. The cultural pressure I don't know why I'm so flemmy. I'm sorry. The cultural pressure isn't just coming from her parents. Like, the, it, the pressure is coming to her parents from their community.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Jillian Betavali]

But that's all they know. And I'm sympathetic to that.

[Patrick Hines]

I hear that. But that's the old guard, because Sonya is meeting all of these people online, all of her friends, half of them who are sitting here, and there are a lot of her friends, and they're all awesome, but half of them met her online because they recognize so much in each other.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So, like, the new generation is here to say, like, we gotta stop some of this oppressive shit.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yeah. Well, speaking of, we go to their wedding. Like, the wedding. The wedding starts out great.

[Patrick Hines]

A June wedding. June 20th. Probably everything she wanted, you know?

[Jillian Betavali]

Yes. And, like, and she looks gorgeous. But, like, once again, we're told there's all this pressure for her to be the perfect, most beautiful bride that ever brided.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, the wedding is what everyone wanted it to look like, which, which is a trend. Like, it should look like this and make everyone whatever. And so it was huge. Sonia was stunning. Everything looked fine.

[Jillian Betavali]

She looked I, I, she was absolutely breathtaking.

[Patrick Hines]

ABS, 100%. So during what they call the signing of the papers, there was an event. They don't really explain this, but this is like a special ceremony that's done. It's called the Nikah ceremony. I'm sorry if I'm mispronouncing that, but it's like a sacred agreement.

[Jillian Betavali]

Okay.

[Patrick Hines]

That, like, formalizes the marriage under Islamic law. There's a lot more to it, but it's like you go into the agreement with the person about, like, what you expect to your marriage, and you're, like, consenting to the marriage. So it's like an agreement. It's like paperwork that you actually sign. Because they say that, but it's also, like, a very sad good thing as well.

[Jillian Betavali]

But this is where we start to learn that there's, like, discord between the families because Sonya, like, her parents are divorced. And so Raheed's family isn't, like, super into them. And so when they're doing the signing

[Friend 1]

of the papers, the conflict was over something what I thought was very minor. It was like a seating arrangement. He was telling her father to sit in a certain place. But I recalled her speaking back to him that, you know, you're not supposed to be telling us, like, what to do.

[Jillian Betavali]

Raheed is trying to tell Sonia's dad where to sit. And Sonia's dad is like, bitch, you don't tell me where to sit. And Raheed apparently takes out a sword, which is part of his wedding suit, and slams it down on the table. Like, one of her friends is like, I saw, like, black in his eyes.

[Patrick Hines]

She says, I have a weapon, and I'm willing to use it to Sonia's

[Jillian Betavali]

dad at their wedding. To which I would say, you better.

[Patrick Hines]

And the thing. Because what happened is, like, Raheela trying to tell Sonia's father what to do. And as we've been told a million times, you don't disrespect the elders. And this is the ultimate disrespecting of the elders. Like, speaking out of turn. And I paid for this. How dare you. There's, like, all of these rules are culminating into this one incident.

[Jillian Betavali]

And all of her friends are like, I don't know where that fell in the ceremony, but early enough in the night that it ruined the night for everybody. It just ruined the wedding.

[Patrick Hines]

Her dad wants Raheel to leave his own wedding.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, wants to kick the groom out of the wedding. But all of the friends, even now are like, I don't want to talk about. It was so bad.

[Jillian Betavali]

Some of the friends, like, won't, like, literally won't speak about it to this day.

[Patrick Hines]

And I think they felt. I can't imagine being either Sonia or her friends in that moment being like, oh, this is like a peek into who you're marrying. You have to run. And she can't run.

[Jillian Betavali]

And not only that, we're told that, like, in this moment, she. She's like. Feels like she has to support her husband over her father.

[Patrick Hines]

And that is drama, too, because then her parents are mad at her. She's already a fucking photographer. I mean, like, it's just getting.

[Jillian Betavali]

Let her live.

[Patrick Hines]

Just live, girl.

[Jillian Betavali]

ZipRecruiter is back. I love ZipRecruiter. I've used it so many times. And I got to tell you, the thing about the Zip recruiter candidates, they're more eager about the job. They're the ones who want to learn more about the job. They're more invested in the job, like, through the interview process. And on day one, we're obsessed.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And they're also qualified.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

That's the thing.

[Jillian Betavali]

So if you're hiring, you want a candidate who's passionate about your role, but you can't get that insight from a resume unless you post your job on ZipRecruiter.

[Patrick Hines]

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[Jillian Betavali]

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[Patrick Hines]

And ZipRecruiter has a new feature that shows you the most interested qualified candidates first so you meet the right people faster.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yes. And candidates can tell you in their own words why they're interested in your job both from like the applying side and the hiring side. That's amazing.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, absolutely. I also would like, if I'm applying for a job, would like to know that the person that's going to hire

[Jillian Betavali]

me actually cares and like actually really wants the job. And like as the candidate it gives you that opportunity to really stand out.

[Patrick Hines]

Exactly, exactly.

[Jillian Betavali]

So fam. Find candidates who really want your job on ZipRecruiter.

[Patrick Hines]

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[Jillian Betavali]

Try it for free at ZipRecruiter.com/TCO.

[Patrick Hines]

That's ZipRecruiter.com/TCO.

[Jillian Betavali]

Meet your match on ZipRecruiter.

[Patrick Hines]

Do it.

[Jillian Betavali]

We're gonna go to Chicago which makes me feel so much better. I like love Chicago so much and

[Patrick Hines]

there was a part of me before I we knew how bad Reheel really was. I was like great, get the hell away from everybody. Go to Chicago. Get space from your all of your terrible parents.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yes. And like the thing is like he's going to medical, medical school there cuz he's going to be a physician's assistant. And like one of their friends says to us they move into a highrise on the 28th floor. And I just made a note, I'm like this is going to be important to this story like that really look, it's not about me. I could never live that high. We looked at an apartment once that was like in the 60th floor. I, I, we live on the fourth floor and I could not go any higher than that.

[Patrick Hines]

I lived on a very high floor. It was a rental and it was during COVID so the price was like insane and we got a in price. New Yorkers will know this. It was the price of the rent and go up for like four years. And it was, I remember that they were, I was like I kind of never going to get this deal again. But it was incredibly high up. And when it was really windy like I used to send you pictures. I'm like oh, I'm in the clouds today. I remember, not fun for me. But anyway, so November 7, 2021. Sonia is a guest on a podcast called Brown Bad and Bothered.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And she is talking very candidly about her experiences as a South Asian woman woman. Like these strict parents, balancing the cultures, being in a, quote, unapproved career.

[Jillian Betavali]

But she's also talking about how, like, her husband is working so hard. He's in physician's assistant school. It's going to be a long time. She's, like, thrilled that she gets to be the breadwinner. She makes good money as a photographer and as a social media influencer. The problem is Sonia was trying to

[Friend 3]

live between the online world and the real world. Trying to pick and choose things that would reflect well when in reality, things weren't going very well in her relationship.

[Jillian Betavali]

She's trying to present, like, everything is amazing in her life, but it's not.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Betavali]

Which broke my heart because when we hear her on the podcast and she

[Patrick Hines]

sounds happy, she also says on the podcast, which I think is really important, support your child, motivate them. If you want them to succeed, if you want them to be happy, if you want them to succeed and be happy, then support them in what they're doing. Because she's like, this evil photographer. She's also killing it.

[Jillian Betavali]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

So she's. I loved hearing her say, like, please break the cycle. I'm doing my part to break the cycle. Yeah, you can do that. That too.

[Jillian Betavali]

And. But we learn, like, what's really going on in her life is that Raheel is never around. Between school and his friends and studying, he's never there. She says, well, I'm, quote, playing housewife. And, like, also the way he talks to her, he's telling her that her job isn't a real job. His family's never going to approve of it. She's got to, like, give it up and do something real.

[Patrick Hines]

Can you imagine getting out of a house like that, like, with your parents, and then your husband turns around and uses that same shit against you that your parents said that you thought you were getting away from.

[Jillian Betavali]

I know. And, like, I want to. I wonder, like, when they met, did they bond over being, like, first generation American kids of Pakistani parents who wanted more? Because we're going to learn that Raheel, he was like the absolute, quote, the perfect golden boy. The golden boy, which is impossible to live up to. But we're told in this moment, he was perfect to his parents. His sisters were perfect to their parents. And, like, Sonya can never live up to the perfection of him and his sisters.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, like, all of the women in his perfect family were absolutely perfect. And Sonya was being told by her family, her husband and her husband's family that she'll never be good enough. And it's like, because she's a photographer.

[Jillian Betavali]

Because she's a photographer and a woman. And that's the thing that, like. Like the fact that her husband isn't standing up for her in that moment,

[Patrick Hines]

the betrayal of that. Because he must have been nice about it for a while. He's not a fudgeing idiot.

[Jillian Betavali]

That's what I was thinking.

[Patrick Hines]

She never would have, like, put up with that. So for him to, like, that moment must have been, like, betrayal of it. You're supposed to love and support me.

[Jillian Betavali]

Exactly. So suddenly, as we're learning that things aren't as great as she's presenting, she kind of disappears from social media.

[Patrick Hines]

She's isolating.

[Jillian Betavali]

She's isolating. One of her friends is like, I was going to Chicago to see a bunch of friends. I wanted to reach out to see

[Meru]

her, but she told me she wouldn't be able to because she had some family stuff going on. And that was kind of a red flag for me because she would tell me what it was. I just knew that there was something that she wasn't telling me because she

[Jillian Betavali]

had, quote, family stuff to do. And she's like, that's when. That was a red flag. That's when I knew that, like, something was not.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, her friend is in her city.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Sonia's parents are in chat Chattanooga.

[Jillian Betavali]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

And her husband's always. Is never around because of studying. And, like, Sonia can't hang out with her friend.

[Jillian Betavali]

Right. And she's off the grid. This was a woman who was, like, making her living on social media, who's, like, just, like, nowhere to be seen.

[Patrick Hines]

Her business, her livelihood. And now she's off the grid. And citrus like, no, this is not okay. So then we jump to January 2022, and she, Sonia, starts to tell her friends the truth about what happened, quote, in December.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, a few weeks before. And so now we go back to December 7, 2021, and, like, gird your

[Jillian Betavali]

loins here, fam, because this is so and terrifying. We learn that Raheel was having a suicidal episode in their apartment on the 28th floor, grabbed Sonya and tried to jump off the balcony with her.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. Like, I mean, he was trying to kill both of them.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yes. That is. That is absolutely beyond. And apparently his mother was there and was somehow able to get him to not do that. But then also, the fact that he tried to kill himself becomes, like, such a taboo.

[Patrick Hines]

And Murder Sonia.

[Sidra]

She's like, my mom just didn't want anyone to know. I honestly didn't know what to do. Her in laws were refusing to look at the fact that Brielle had a serious problem.

[Jillian Betavali]

Sonja's own mother, who is like, you can never talk about this. This happens sometimes. Like, sometimes husbands just get like that.

[Patrick Hines]

What is everybody gonna say? Her own mother, instead of trying to help this clearly dire situation where Sonia is in grave danger. Grave.

[Jillian Betavali]

Grave danger.

[Patrick Hines]

I don't mean. I'm not saying that as a joke. Like, she was almost. That's attempted murder.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yes. And, like, just because he didn't pull it off the first time, like, doesn't mean he's not gonna try it again tomorrow.

[Sidra]

Right?

[Patrick Hines]

Like, is anyone getting help here at all? No. Great. So we get the screenshot that I need to slow down on. Sonya says this is the incident that makes her want to tell her friends. Like, we. I need to tell you. Like, this is not good. Sonya texts Sidra. Hey, babe, a lot has happened I haven't shared. Sidra's response immediately is, can you talk?

[Jillian Betavali]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

This is what I'm always saying, right? Like, Sonia was off the grid. She was ghosting everyone. She reached out to Sidra. Sidra didn't even think, can you talk?

[Jillian Betavali]

Yep.

[Patrick Hines]

We want to help you.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Reach out to us. Your friends miss you and are worried about you 100%. Text us.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yeah. This is where we get a bit of, like, Raheel struggling with the oppression of trying to live up to that perfect son moniker. Like, that's where a lot of his mental health stuff is coming from. But he's also not a lot allowed to talk about his mental health. He also lied.

[Friend 1]

Something else that came out was his age, that he had lied. He was actually in his mid-30s. That, for her, was a huge turning point as well, because she actually doesn't know who the hell she married, saying

[Jillian Betavali]

he was 26 when he was actually in his mid-30s.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Jillian Betavali]

So this is another thing where Sonya's like, my husband just tried to kill me, and I have absolutely no idea who I married. Like, this man is a stranger to me.

[Patrick Hines]

And we see him texting her. My family feel you are overreacting. Like, I don't understand. So now, like, do you know how lonely that must feel for Sonia? She can't even talk to her husband. She can't even say to her husband, what do you need? Like, we need to get help. Like, how can we fix this?

[Jillian Betavali]

And if you're Sonia's parent, if this were Daisy, the only thing that I would be thinking is he's going to kill her.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Betavali]

And the most important thing in the world is to keep her safe. And I am imagining, I'm assuming that what the. Her family and his family are actually thinking is the reputation of the family comes over her safety a hundred percent. Absolutely. It is. It is more important that nobody know that he's struggling with his mental health and that he just tried to kill her than it is that we get her out of there and keep her safe.

[Patrick Hines]

And to lie about his age. A 10 year age difference that she finds out after the wedding. I'm like, who did she marry? And then I thought about it for a second. I'm like, oh, a fucking coward mama's boy. That too. Because we get a text from him. My mother thinks you need to be more supportive of your husband. Husband. Bye.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yes, but like, but this is what I'm saying. Like, she was. She's grown up in a system that has told her she can't leave. Except that her mother did. But her mother is telling her that she can't.

[Patrick Hines]

She's being gaslit from all sides.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Because her mother is now a totally different person. Apparently not saying, like, what did Sonia's dad do, mom, that made you say enough is enough, but your daughter being almost thrown off a 28 floor balcony isn't enough. What's going on here?

[Jillian Betavali]

Right?

[Patrick Hines]

What? What is happening?

[Jillian Betavali]

Yeah, right.

[Patrick Hines]

Make it make sense. Like, her parents are talking shit to her. Her husband is her husband's family. She's isolated. Thank God she reached out to Sidra, at least for a moment. To not feel alone like that, I

[Jillian Betavali]

mean, it's just insane.

[Patrick Hines]

So her friend to kill her.

[Jillian Betavali]

He tried to kill her by throwing her off a balcony. And she doesn't want to sleep next to him. She's afraid he's going to kill her in the middle of the night. And he might.

[Patrick Hines]

So By January of 2022, when she's opened up to her friends about it, her friend Meru literally goes to rescue her in secret. She's like, okay, I'm leaving now.

[Jillian Betavali]

I'm on the next what I would do. She gets there, Raheel is home and like. And does not know that Maru is coming.

[Meru]

And she packed a small bag and she brought her camera like her baby. We ran to the elevator. We were shaking, out of breath, adrenaline was pumping, thinking that he had followed us. But we made it.

[Jillian Betavali]

They run to the elevator. They are shaking, they are out of breath, they are afraid. Rikula has followed them. He. He has not. They get on an airplane and they go to Maru's New York apartment.

[Patrick Hines]

And Sonya has escaped.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And once she is out of this situation for two seconds, she really can see how not okay any of this is and how scary and dangerous it is and how everyone around her is failing her.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And burying her more and more in this bullshit.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

They're making it a million times worse by the second. And she's like, she says out loud, that's it. I'm getting a divorce. She says it.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So Sonya goes home to deal with this. And where is Raheel? With his mommy. And then we get Sidra. Put this in the fucking Lou. She. This is screenshot that I took.

[Sidra]

And she goes, A self entitled boy goes running back to his mom.

[Patrick Hines]

A self entitled boy goes running back to his mom. And the poses her with her arms out. Print it out, frame it, hang it in the Lou.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yes. Down, back. But still the Louvre. That's a Lord song. I'm like obsessed.

[Patrick Hines]

I don't know why you love Lord now,

[Jillian Betavali]

girl. Ladder is back. Look, this is all about solving your gym problems. Because I think like so many people, we want to go to the gym, we want to be fit. But like, you walk in the room and then you have no idea what to do.

[Patrick Hines]

I have no idea what to do. I need to be told. I need a program.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yes, that's exactly what Ladder is. Ladder is an expert strength training plan, not a content library. So these aren't influencer workouts or challenges. It's all real progressive programing designed by certified coaches.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And it's all about like, it works for any strength training style that you prefer. If you're a Pilates girly, or if you want to do bodybuilding, or if you have like at home, dumbbell bells and that's it. Like anything that you need, there are programs for it.

[Jillian Betavali]

And it's not like they just like give you a thing that you read. There's in ear coaching guides that guide you through every set with cues, form reminders, which honestly don't waste your time doing a thing incorrectly because you're getting nothing out of it. And motivation, it's in your ear. They're telling you what to do.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And your progress is tracked automatically so the app will remember your weights, your reps, your sets. You can see yourself getting stronger over time. You could see what needs to be changed, what needs to be adjusted.

[Jillian Betavali]

This is the answer if you've been wanting to start like a gym program, but you, like, are too overwhelmed or too intimidated. This is it. This is going to tell you everything you need and like, help you progress over time.

[Patrick Hines]

I love this.

[Jillian Betavali]

So bam. Remove the guesswork with ladder and get a real coach in your ear telling you exactly what to do for every workout.

[Patrick Hines]

No thinking. Everything is planned for you.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yeah. If you have an iPhone, head to ladder, dot fit slash TCO and take a quick quiz to find your perfect ladder plan.

[Patrick Hines]

Use our link and get a free 7 day trial with no credit card and 10 bucks off your first month if you join.

[Jillian Betavali]

No excuses anymore, fam. Today is the day.

[Patrick Hines]

No strength training. Here we come.

[Jillian Betavali]

Here we go. The thing that Sonya does is she turns to her online community and why this is such a big deal is because nobody from their community is doing this. She's sharing her pain. She's sharing her confusion. She's sharing how she's been feeling gaslit. She's sharing how her family isn't supporting her. And like, people are really responding to this because so many women in that community are going through the same thing.

[Patrick Hines]

Someone's commenting, don't stop making videos was don't stop speaking. And so her content evolves and she also starts talking about her upbringing.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

You know, like pov, you're the black sheep of your South Asian family. And someone is commenting, my parents have boycotted me since I got divorced. See you later. Mom and dad with the peace sign.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yes. Like, people were so desperate for somebody to say it first.

[Patrick Hines]

And she's making a difference.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, she's healing. Others are healing. There's this new community now, this new generation. The old guard is over. Like, these people trying to say, like, oh my, I can talk about it now.

[Jillian Betavali]

And one of her friends says, like, her message, like, it wasn't just for Pakistani Muslim women.

[Friend 2]

She says her message was, no matter what religion you come from, you're a woman and you're beautiful and you can achieve anything that you set your mind to.

[Jillian Betavali]

You can accomplish anything you set your mind to.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. This religious oppression and patriarchy is fucking everywhere. We sit it with the Mormons.

[Jillian Betavali]

You know, it's interesting. Like, we were, we were just did a Patreon panel yesterday at Onyx. The big buzzword of the, of the weekend was authenticity. And I was, somebody was like, oh, well, how do you, like, make your videos go viral? And I'm like, we don't care about that. We just care about making the things that resonate with our listeners and resonate with each other. And like, that's what we do, and that's what we love. And that is the one of the reasons why Sonya became such a social media star, because she wasn't trying to get famous. She wasn't trying to, like, even make money. She was just trying to share her experience in the hopes that it helped

[Patrick Hines]

son somebody else, and that's how many people it helped. Yes, that she was going viral.

[Jillian Betavali]

I know all the time. And, like, I think that is such a thing to really think about. Anybody who's listening to this, who wants to, like, share any part of your life on social media, like, yeah, the way you find success doing that is by just being who you are, you know? And unfortunately, your community will find you 100%.

[Patrick Hines]

Unfortunately. However, with this will always come the death threats, the haters, the trolls, the unhinged people, the bullying, the harassment.

[Jillian Betavali]

Especially if you're a woman and especially if, like, you're a Pakistani Muslim woman.

[Patrick Hines]

I want to read some of these comments because they're all threats to her.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Glorifying divorce and disrespecting privacy is filthy. Why play with fire like that?

[Jillian Betavali]

That sounds like a threat.

[Patrick Hines]

That's a threat to me.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

My sympathy goes to him. Till death does us part. I mean, we're not going to be the grammar police right now, but, like,

[Jillian Betavali]

that's also a threat police of our worries, but it's still up there, like,

[Patrick Hines]

till death do us part. Like, I know what you're trying to say.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Then last but not least, prostitute. You should suffer the pain you caused. This is what she's dealing with. On the flip side of being authentic and finding this thriving community of women who don't feel alone and are finally making their voices heard.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And even her own mother is texting her. Shit. Stop being a teenager. Stop posting that online. Teenager.

[Jillian Betavali]

Like, I don't understand. Her mother got divorced. I know her mother left an abusive marriage, but she's not allowed to.

[Patrick Hines]

And Sonia's friends are like, she didn't focus on that.

[Meru]

She was like, girl, I'm gonna delete blocks and move on.

[Friend 2]

She brushed him off. You don't really think someone's gonna, like, lash out like that for just something as silly as something you post online.

[Patrick Hines]

Delete, block, move on was her. Her mantra.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yeah. And this is where we meet her friend Gabrielle, who I love. Yeah, Gabrielle's her friend in Chattanooga. Like, all of these friends that we meet, they just start to glow when they talk about Sonya. And she's just saying that, like, they. You know, they met on social media. She calls her, like, twin flame, soul sister, whatever you want to talk about it. And like, Gabrielle is. Has a front row seat for watching Sonya make this whole new life for herself through, like, sharing her. Her, like, lived experience on social media.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And so Sonia gets a tattoo, which is the number 28 in Roman numerals. And it was the year she, quote, woke up. Also, she lived on the 28th floor and survived attempted murder.

[Jillian Betavali]

Isn't that wild?

[Patrick Hines]

So the number 28 is really important to her.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And she posts about it. She says, the year I got married, the year I moved from a small town to one of the largest cities in the country, the year I fired for divorce, the year I almost died. And my apartment is on the 28th floor, which if you know my story is the one I almost lost my life in on. She's put that's the real. On the screen of her video.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So she said, tomorrow as I wake up, you know, like, she's just really thriving and taking her, like, wearing it like a badge because this is her story and she's gonna break the cycle and she's gonna make changes and we're all gonna heal.

[Jillian Betavali]

And she gets back together with Robert, the white guy from college.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Betavali]

You know, the one that got away. So she's going to move back to Chattanooga. That's her big thing. She's gonna move in with Gabrielle. She and Gabrielle are gon. Gabrielle. I don't. I feel like Gabrielle just signed like a five year lease. But as soon as Sonia was like, can we live together? She's like, fuck it. Burn it down. Of course we're living together.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. I think they are incredibly, incredibly close. And they. I mean, Gabrielle says that's when we fell in love. So I think they are very.

[Jillian Betavali]

Are you granting me right now?

[Patrick Hines]

I don't know if I am. I'm just saying I think I got a little bit. I think they were very seriously connected. I'm not assigning anybody anything because Gabrielle doesn't say anything.

[Jillian Betavali]

Gabrielle calls her her twin flame.

[Patrick Hines]

She says soulmate and soul sister. And she said that's when we fell in love. So you can use that in any way. I talk about that way with my friends, about my friends sometimes. But I'm getting, you know, like Sonia flies Gabriella to Chicago. It's not like relationship vibes. It's okay a little bit, but I don't want to, like, Gabrielle is here being very honest about this tragedy that happens. So I don't want to be a dick about it, but I'm getting Like, I don't know. I think they fed each other in a really important way.

[Jillian Betavali]

Well, that's the thing, is that, like, whatever it was, it was the beginning of something. Something, you know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Really important to both of them and really big.

[Jillian Betavali]

And it's like, we all have friendships that are really intimate, that, like, you know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

That you, this point in your life,

[Jillian Betavali]

100%, you know, like.

[Patrick Hines]

And I don't know Gabriella's story. Maybe she was going through something similar. I have no idea.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

But the plan is that. So Sonya flies Gabriella to Chicago. Gabriella is going to help Sonya pack up, and then they will drive from Chicago to Chattanooga.

[Jillian Betavali]

She says, have a little adventure. I'm like, that sounds amazing.

[Patrick Hines]

It sounds phenomenal.

[Jillian Betavali]

That's about as far as I want to drive with anybody. Chicago to Chattanooga. That halfway across. We can do that.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. I just hear the like and like. Like, just, like, figuratively and literally, like, leav everything behind.

[Jillian Betavali]

Now all I can imagine is the lesbian U Haul. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

So Gabriella is fresh off the plane. She just landed in Chicago. She's supposed to go to Sonia's house to help her pack. I landed, and I asked her, what train do I need to get on? And I hadn't heard from her, so that worried me a little bit. I still. I called her a lot, and she's texting, like, wait, what train do I take again? And Sonia's not answering her. Now, now, this is interesting. I guess Sonia and Gabriella were posting a lot about moving in together, because Gabriella says that Sonia's followers are reaching out to Gabriella because she goes, they know we were supposed to see each other today.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So she's getting these, like, Instagram phone calls, which is a very weird thing. Instagram, that you might call someone on Instagram.

[Jillian Betavali]

Somebody called me on, like, Facebook messenger. What's happened?

[Patrick Hines]

And it's like, sometimes it's like, oh, my God. Sorry, I didn't mean to do that. But sometimes it's like people leaving messages, and I'm like, oh, okay.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Anyway. But she's getting all these messages, like, from Sonia's followers reaching out to Gabriella because they all knew that this big move was happening.

[Jillian Betavali]

But then one of them sends. Gabriella is, like, waiting for, like, a text or a call back from Sonya, like, where are you, girl? I'm here. One of her followers texts her and says, I'm so sorry about Sonya.

[Patrick Hines]

And then Sonia's father and mother called Gabriella and Gabriella's like, this is the first time I've ever been in. Like, I don't know. Her parents. We've never spoken before.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So now they're calling Gabriell, Gabriella. Like, everyone knows that Gabriella is here, right? And they're all reaching out to her.

[Jillian Betavali]

The dad says to her, she's gone.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, you know what? He finally did it. Like that. That becomes so. The minute Gabrielle is texting Sonia, what train do I take? I'm like, he did it. He finally did it.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Piece of.

[Jillian Betavali]

And we learn that at 4:30 in the afternoon that day, the day that Gabrielle landed, the police were called to Sonia's apartment. And upon arrival that the cops are standing outside the apartment door.

[Friend 3]

Upon arrival, they heard a gunshot, broke in and found Sanya's body unresponsive. They then found another body with a gunshot wound to the head. It was Raheel.

[Jillian Betavali]

They find Sonya unresponsive, and then they find another body with a gunshot to the head. And it's Raheel.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Raheel killed Sonja and then himself.

[Jillian Betavali]

And like all of the friends are learning via text message.

[Patrick Hines]

Sidra is immediately furious.

[Jillian Betavali]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

Sidra is me just fucking pissed.

[Jillian Betavali]

And Gabrielle says, like, he knew I was coming. That's the thing. Like, he knew that I was coming to get her. And this is when he did it.

[Patrick Hines]

So let's rewind.

[Jillian Betavali]

It's funny.

[Patrick Hines]

Been six months since the divorce. The killer drove 700 miles from Atlanta to Chicago.

[Jillian Betavali]

Can we stop on that for a second? Because I was like, he had 700 miles to talk himself out of it.

[Patrick Hines]

700 miles, ramp himself up.

[Jillian Betavali]

I cannot imagine that level of fucking crazy.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, when you have the support of these insane people telling you, like, till death do you part and she should suffer the way you are suffering, like, that is the echo chamber that he's living in.

[Jillian Betavali]

Well, we also learn. I mean, he was banned from their apartment.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, that's a. Interesting way that they're. That's an interesting word that the documentary is using.

[Jillian Betavali]

I wonder, though, if there was like, it's not a restraining order. It doesn't sound like. But, like, when you try to, like, grab your wife and jump off the balcony. I wonder what that means. Banned.

[Patrick Hines]

So let me just slow down on this. So he's, quote, banned from the apartment, but he gets around this by calling a random real estate agent and saying, like, oh, I want to look at this other apartment in the building.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Proving that the building had no real way of actually banning him because he still Walked right in with the real estate agent.

[Jillian Betavali]

And it's also, like, who banned him? Was it like, Sonia who banned him? Was it Sonia's mother who.

[Patrick Hines]

Not a picture, not a this. Or was it just one of those, like, really awesome things that happen where there's, like, a piece of paper but then you can't actually force it?

[Jillian Betavali]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Patrick Hines]

But, like, he was able to walk right in.

[Jillian Betavali]

And so once that apart, that bogus apartment tour is over.

[Friend 3]

After the tour, he told the real estate agent that he was going to visit a friend. And at 11am, he knocked on Sonia's door. What is believed to have happened is Raheel told her that he had had her wedding dress in a garment bag. Sonia opened the door and Raheel immediately shot her.

[Jillian Betavali]

He shoots her.

[Patrick Hines]

Meanwhile, though, the killer's family has called police and asked them to go to the apartment to do a welfare check because they haven't heard he's been missing for 36 hours. He's been driving the 700 miles. But he didn't tell anybody, I guess.

[Jillian Betavali]

And, like, not answering his phone, I guess.

[Patrick Hines]

So Sonia's death is ruled a homicide. His is ruled a suicide. And we're told by the friends, like, once again, Sonia did everything right.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

She divorced him, she changed the locks. He was banned the apartment, for what it's worth, like, she tried to do everything she's told to do.

[Jillian Betavali]

And, like, pull over for this, please. Because he left a suicide note blaming Sonia. Yeah. I mean, all the friends are like, this is such bullshit. He said in his suicide note, he said he had the gun to his head, telling her he couldn't live without her. She tried to take the gun out of his hand.

[Patrick Hines]

And before that, they had a good time. And they were laughing, by the way. Everything was perfectly wonderful and normal.

[Jillian Betavali]

But then he pulls out a gun, puts it to his head, says, I can't live without you. And then according to Raheel, it went like she shot herself by accident. And then he couldn't, like, stand that his having been there caused her death, so he had to kill himself.

[Patrick Hines]

It's all fucking piece of shit.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So Hira is that influencer, the supportive South Asian cis.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And she makes videos about this because she's been following Sonia's career, basically, and resonating with her because she's fucking had it.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yeah.

[Friend 3]

And she says here, yet again, we have a South Asian woman going through domestic abuse who has now been murdered by her estranged husband. And yet the community is absolutely silent. Time and time again in our Communities, we talk about how women need to be complicit to the abuse that they face. So myself and some other social media influencers that I know from our community spoke up about this, and the community

[Patrick Hines]

won't talk about it. Right. So now all of these other influencers are saying, like, this is why she had the following she had.

[Jillian Betavali]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

This is why we understood, like, this could be any one of us.

[Jillian Betavali]

Right. And so they do it. She and, like, all of her girlfriends, like, they're the ones that, like, take to social media to sort of, like, tell Sonia's story and keep this going. Because women in this community desperately need to see women living through things like this, you know, or tragically, being like, this is what can happen if you're not allowed to protect and take care of yourself.

[Patrick Hines]

And there are still people, men in the comments defending Raheel and blaming Sonya. Even in all of this, people coming together, there are still people in this community and in that religion that are blaming Sonya and defending him.

[Jillian Betavali]

And it's. He didn't kill her because she left him. He killed her because he was always going to kill her. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Betavali]

It wasn't the leaving. Maybe that escalated it, maybe that made it whatever. But he killed her because he was sick and was always going to do this and.

[Patrick Hines]

And every signal. Because. Don't tell me the signs weren't there long before this.

[Jillian Betavali]

I mean, we know it's true because before there was any. Before there was any threat of her leaving, he tried to kill her. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And the wedding.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And, you know, he. He reacts violently to things. We. We knew this on their wedding day.

[Jillian Betavali]

And he's been a liar from day one.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Betavali]

His family won't let him get the help he desperately fucking needs because of

[Patrick Hines]

what, again, because of what people might think.

[Jillian Betavali]

The reputation or whatever. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Now he's a. Now he's a fucking murderer. So how's that for her? She's dead. And we all know and we're all talking about it.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

How about that? But her friends get her Roman numeral tattoo.

[Grant]

All of her closest friends came to this idea of getting the exact same tattoo in the exact same spot for the exact same reason.

[Meru]

Aw.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm so happy. I just had to mark my body with her memory.

[Friend 1]

I have to.

[Jillian Betavali]

What a beautiful way to memorialize her and to have, like, a little piece of her, like, with them forever.

[Patrick Hines]

I think that's really beautiful. Cause I really was moved by how many of her friends came, how they spoke about her, how they wouldn't speak about the boundaries they had, the honesty they had. I just fucking loved all of these women who showed up to continue this conversation. That really, like, needs to be had.

[Jillian Betavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And then we get the on screen text to go to the hotline.org if you need any kind of help with any of this whatsoever. So thanks for doing that.

[Jillian Betavali]

Oh, girl. We did deadly influence, the social media murders. Like, holy, holy, holy shit.

[Patrick Hines]

Season one, episode two, if you want to check it out. It's good, a great episode. It's a good series.

[Jillian Betavali]

It is a really good series.

[Patrick Hines]

They focus on the victim. I love that they have so many of their people here. That means a lot.

[Jillian Betavali]

I actually also really like that we get to see some of the social media posts that they make.

[Patrick Hines]

It's so important. Like, the trail is there. It's so obvious, right?

[Jillian Betavali]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We love you, fam. Thanks for checking out our bonus episodes.

[Patrick Hines]

Love you. Yeah. Happy bonus episode season.

[Jillian Betavali]

Bonus episode season upon us. All right, we love you. Bye.

[Patrick Hines]

We love you. Stay safe.

[Sidra]

Bye.