501: The Curious Case of... The Woman Dying for Attention

Summary

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Episode Summary: True Crime Obsessed – "The Curious Case of... The Woman Dying for Attention" (Episode 501, May 19, 2026)

Main Theme:
This episode of True Crime Obsessed recaps and analyzes the HBO/Max & Discovery docuseries episode “The Woman Dying for Attention,” which tells the wild, disturbing, and surprisingly far-reaching story of con artist Sarah Delashmit (referred to interchangeably as Sarah Della Schmidt or similar) — a woman who faked disabilities, illnesses, pregnancies, romantic relationships, and trauma for years, stepping into and stealing from supportive communities (especially those involving disability and illness). Through humor and heart, hosts Jillian and Patrick unravel both the emotional wreckage Sarah leaves and what drives a person to such compulsive deception, spotlighting key victims and their journeys to heal and seek justice.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Scene: The Main Players & Initial Victim (00:19 – 04:40)

• Victim Erin Johnson: Diagnosed with cerebral palsy as a baby, meets “Sarah” (then a counselor at a camp for kids/adults with disabilities) in 2005. “Sarah full of shit, am I right?” (02:50, A)
• Camp counselors were true caretakers: “They do it all” (03:12, B)
• Unusual intensity of Sarah’s friendship with Erin, going far beyond camp.

2. The Web of Lies Grows: Faked Tragedies & Relationships (04:40 – 15:40)

• Sarah claims to have a disabled sister, Gabby, and invents multiple family traumas.
• Sarah fabricates an online romance for Erin with “Jeff” — who turns out to be Sarah all along.
• Notable heartbreak: “I fell really hard and real fast... just a hope of actually having a future with a guy who’d love me for me and not judge me for my disability.” (09:57, G)
• Sarah uses Erin’s stories and desires to manipulate her, including faking Jeff’s death and even staging fake medical crises for herself (seizures via Zoom, etc.).
• “She better hope she never meets me.” (13:15, D)

3. Escalating Deceit: Emotional Abuse & Exploitation (15:10 – 19:19)

• Sarah adds layers: claims to have Ebola, cancer, a paralyzing tumor, multiple surgeries, etc.
• Sympathetic friends/communities are weaponized for attention/validation.
• “The grooming and abuse has been going on on daily basis, 10, 12, 18 hours a day.” (15:28, A)
• Grief and confusion for victims: “That feeling of grief, of like somebody had just died, that's where it gets really, really crazy.” (02:07, F)

4. Mirroring, Manipulation, & Shifting Roles (19:19 – 32:00)

• Sarah returns to camp as a “camper” this time, faking extreme disability (in wheelchair, entirely dependent).
• Bethany’s Experience: Was a thoughtful, trauma-surviving counselor, describes betrayal when she realized Sarah lied: “She stood up, didn’t say anything to anybody, just got in the van, and they closed the door and drove off... She was able-bodied and was lying about all this.” (33:28, E)
• Sarah would demand intimacy and vulnerable care under false pretenses, exhausting and manipulating caregivers.

5. Pattern Exposed: Other Victims & Unraveling the Scams (32:00 – 45:40)

• Sarah forms rapid, intense “friendships,” demands invasive information (e.g., pregnancy ultrasounds from Bethany).
• Leaves devastated communities and immediately targets new groups.
• Exposes herself to journalist-curious women (Sarah Trevelyan, etc.), who pieced together her trail.
• Fraud escalates into other illnesses, identities, and online communities (SMA, muscular dystrophy, breast milk and mom groups, etc.).

Notable Quote:

• “Oh my God, this bitch is talking to herself.” (49:39, D) – on Sarah operating multiple sock-puppet profiles in rare-disease communities.

6. The Breaking Point: Law Enforcement & Accountability (45:45 – 58:12)

• Criminal frauds: Sarah exploits breast cancer charity to acquire a $4,500 bike fraudulently.
• FBI and law enforcement get involved due to her mail and wire fraud.
• Legal outcome: Sarah is convicted on eight counts, serves just 18 months before being released (57:49, A).

Notable Quote:

• “The harm that Sarah caused went way beyond monetary value. She stole and harmed the emotions of people—a lot of very, very good people who were trying to do very, very good things.” (55:11, B, quoting FBI agent)

7. The Cycle Continues: Aftermath, Recovery & Watchfulness (58:12 – End)

• Sarah resumes life with little consequence, even becomes a mother.
• Victims vow vigilance; “I will never take my foot off her neck...I will always know where she is and what she's up to.” (62:04, F)
• Andrea, another advocate, calls her a “dangerous sociopath” and predicts escalation unless intervention is permanent.
• Hosts reflect on the systemic challenges for communities targeted by pathological liars and express empathy for victims—and exasperation at how little justice is possible.

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Memorable Moments & Notable Quotes

• “Women supporting women.” “Love that for them.” (00:21–00:24, A&B, reacting to trophy hunters being trampled by elephants)
• “[Sarah] was studying our friend Erin.” (04:34, A)
• “This is, like, murder as far as really bad. It’s that level of not caring at all about other people.” (10:54, B)
• “The violation of that kind of a lie in that environment—no one knows how to handle it.” (34:04, A)
• “I will never take my foot off her neck.” (62:04, F, on monitoring Sarah)
• “Don’t stick your dick in crazy.” (58:04, Andrea/D)
• “How does she get some guy to sleep with her? My God.” (63:02, A)

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Important Timestamps

• (02:50–03:12): Introduction to Sarah and Erin’s camp dynamic
• (09:57): Erin describes the emotional pain of believing in “Jeff”
• (13:15–14:08): Sarah fakes seizure on Zoom; “She better hope she never meets me”
• (24:28–24:50): Zip line incident at Camp Summit, showing counselors’ real care vs. Sarah’s fakery
• (33:28–33:46): Camp counselors realize Sarah can walk—her ruse is exposed
• (49:39): Online chatroom deception—Sarah talking to herself as multiple made-up profiles
• (55:11): FBI describes emotional harm; recognizing the extent of Sarah’s betrayal
• (57:49): Sarah pleads guilty, is sentenced, but released in 2022
• (62:04): Elizabeth and Andrea vow never to stop tracking Sarah—a warning for communities everywhere

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Tonal Notes

• Blend of Humor and Outrage: Hosts use wit and sarcasm (“Sarah full of shit, am I right?”) but show deep anger at Sarah’s abuse and real empathy for victims.
• Emotional Honesty: The show enhances true crime’s usual format by spending time with the emotional complexity for both victims and supportive communities (“the amount of love and care and thought and attention that [Beth Karras] still puts into the care of her brothers…” — 36:34, B).
• Call for Vigilance & Justice: The hosts and guests recognize that despite Sarah’s light sentence, communities must watch for people who exploit the empathy and care at their core.

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Conclusion

“The Curious Case of... The Woman Dying for Attention” is a cautionary true crime tale of how one woman’s relentless quest for validation and attention left lasting emotional—and at times financial—scars on kind, vulnerable people. Patrick and Jillian highlight each twist and heartbreak, bringing both levity and empathy, leaving listeners with big questions about recognizing manipulators, supporting survivors, and the limits of justice.

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Next episode preview: The Truth and Tragedy of Mariah Wilson (Netflix; cycling world murder case). “A little bit different vibe of what we just covered.” (63:30, A)

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Transcript

[A]

Did you hear. Did you hear the big news?

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

The trophy hunter who was killed by female elephants.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Love that for them.

[B]

I did instantly think of you.

[A]

Five elephants charged, some trophy hunters killed one, injured another.

[B]

Is that right?

[A]

Yeah. They were like, absolutely not. They had their little babies with them. They were like, get out of here. And one of them just like rammed them. Good for her.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Women supporting women.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Love that for them. Hi.

[B]

Julia Matavali. Hello.

[A]

Patrick Hines, fam.

[B]

Join us on the YouTube. We are closing in on 400,000 subscribers.

[A]

Unbelievable.

[B]

Unbelievable. Our videos are super fun. They're super cute to watch. Go check it out. Yeah, give us a little subscribe. What's the other thing?

[A]

Patreon.

[B]

Oh, my God. Our Patreon is also amazing. We have like over 400 ad free bonus episodes. We've got after parties where we do, like, cases we haven't covered. We've got that hero belt here where we make episodes just for them. Yep. We did that America's Next Top Model thing.

[A]

Yeah. We are starting our recording of Trust Me, the false props profit today.

[B]

Yes. That's at the $5 here. That's for everybody.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. So that's going to be coming very, very soon. We got a lot going on.

[B]

It's true. Once again, click the link in the show notes or it's patreon.com truecrimeobsessed. What are we talking about today, girl?

[A]

All right. This is an episode of that show the Curious Case of Ellipsis. This is season two, episode six, the Woman Dying for Attention. It is on hbo, Max and Discovery.

[C]

If Sarah had any shame, she wouldn't have done any of the things she's done over the last 20 years.

[A]

I think she really wanted the things

[D]

that she lied about. There's something. There's something not right in there.

[C]

This was a woman with no authentic identity.

[B]

I just remember I couldn't sleep that whole week.

[E]

I've never seen her walk. I don't even really know how tall she is.

[F]

I think she just idealized my life

[A]

at the time and was like, this is what I want and I'm gonna insert myself in your life.

[D]

As things progressed, I found out exactly how intricate the web was. And it became almost a game.

[C]

She wasn't in it for the money. And so I became intensely curious about what she was in it for.

[E]

That person does not exist. That feeling of grief, of like somebody

[F]

had just died, that's where it gets really, really crazy.

[E]

My head was just Spinning.

[D]

I just don't want anybody to be hurt. She better hope she never meets me.

[B]

We open in Corona, California. We meet Erin Johnson. Now, she was diagnosed with cerebral palsy when she was 8 months old. Erin is, like, severely disabled.

[A]

Yeah. Right. She's using a motorized bed in the photo. She's not doing that. But Erin has one hell of a story about this piece of shit named Sarah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Team Erin. Our dear friend Aaron is here to tell us this horrifying thing that happened to her 100%.

[B]

Like, this lovely little lady, this woman Sarah, who is like the. Our. Our main bad guy. Her name is Sarah Della Schmidt. And we jump to the summer of 2005.

[A]

Sarah full of shit. Am I right?

[B]

Sarah? Dumb as shit.

[A]

Like, for sure. Summer 2005. Erin. Our friend Aaron meets shitty Sarah at a camp for disabled children and adults. Sarah was actually one of the counselors,

[B]

which makes it sound like she's an amazing person.

[A]

Yeah. Because over the course of that week, they were inseparable. And we will meet counselors, and they are amazing. And this camp sounds wonderful. So, like. But that's what Sarah's trying to do here.

[B]

Right? That's where we start. And the thing about these counselors at this camp is that the people who go there, it's for disabled kids and adults, and they need a lot of care. So it's, you know, everything from hair washing and bathing and helping get to the bathroom, and they'll do it all. They do it all.

[A]

And Beth Karas is also here.

[B]

I have Beth Karras, exclamation mark.

[A]

Yeah, she's here. I don't know why we're surprised. This is kind of her show here.

[B]

I really love Beth Karras very much.

[A]

But Beth says, look, I know what

[B]

it's like because I lived with two disabled brothers. They just want friends. They want someone to think they're special enough to spend time with. Right. And be a friend to. So this meant a lot to Aaron

[A]

when she saw her brothers have amazing friendships. It just meant so much to her.

[B]

Yeah. And also that, like, these disabled kids are just looking for people to connect with. With, you know?

[A]

Right.

[B]

And, like, we've already heard that Sarah is this woman, Aaron's, like, best friend and how meaningful that is for them. So Aaron tells us that Sarah, once this week of camp is over, Aaron and Sarah stay in very close touch, which I'm a little bit like, is that okay? I don't know.

[A]

Right. I don't know the boundaries there. But also, that would make sense if they did in normal circumstances.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. But Aaron says that Sarah tells her Sarah's got a disabled sister named Gabby. She's 11. She has a condition called SMA, which is a form of muscular dystrophy.

[A]

And so Erin says that this, like, bad guy Sarah asked her a lot of questions. And Aaron, of course, Erin is in that. That place where she's looking back and seeing where things made sense and didn't make sense. So she says it almost like looking back, it felt like she was studying our friend Aaron.

[B]

Yeah, because we don't know yet, and Aaron doesn't know yet that Sarah's like a bad guy. So Aaron also says the level of in touch they stayed was insane.

[A]

Constant. All day, every day.

[B]

Like, all day, every way. Way too much.

[A]

Yeah. But Sarah tells our friend Aaron all about her life.

[C]

Sarah started to tell Aaron about her husband Adam and their multiple pregnancies, multiple miscarriages, and even deaths of some babies.

[A]

Even some deaths of the babies. Like, real. Like, Sarah has been through some shit and she's telling her new friend Aaron about it.

[B]

And not to confuse things too much, but we also meet here, this woman, Sarah Trevillin, she's a journalist. And I said, this lady is a real life Carrie Bradshaw. Yeah, she's got my dream life. She mostly writes long form magazine pieces and makes a true crime podcast. Podcast. And she wrote about this case, like a long form article for Elle magazine. Yeah, that used to be a thing.

[A]

Elle magazine, magazines in general. Long form articles and magazines. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

When I was in college, like, people were, like, studying to become, like, journalists who, like, wrote long form articles for magazines. I missed. I missed them.

[A]

Yeah, like, like Andy from Devil Wears Prada.

[F]

Yeah.

[B]

Not back for the sequel. Oh, no, Andy's back.

[A]

Not if Anna Hathaway.

[B]

No, no, no. Sorry.

[A]

Isn't back. The stupid boyfriend.

[B]

He's not back. He's made, like, a whole thing about not being back for the sequel.

[A]

Who cares? Everyone hated you anyway. You were the real villain.

[B]

Whatever stupid name is $8 in Gruyere. Or whatever Jarlsberg is. What?

[A]

He uses no one in their right mind. Especially this, like, fancy pants chef.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

That he allegedly is.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Would know. You don't use Jarlsberg.

[B]

Why did I hate the boyfriend so

[A]

much and he overcooked it? Because he wasn't supportive of her.

[B]

Can you just let her do it?

[A]

She's not thrilled about it. She has to do it for a year. Yeah, just be decent about it. Like, she's kind of going through it. What an Asshole. Her friends.

[B]

We needed a villain. Oh, my God. That woman. Tracy, what's her name was in it too. Tracy Tom, who was in the rent movie obsessed with her.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's time for a deep rod one first rewatch. Yeah, we got to watch that again.

[A]

Really good.

[B]

I know. And Devil Wears product you the day we're recording this, it comes out tomorrow.

[A]

Does it?

[B]

I like, might even brave the movie theater to go see it in the theater.

[A]

Look, if it's worth it to you, you should do it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Just be careful how to act anymore.

[B]

I know. I go mostly to 2 o' clock matinees with my kids to see like

[A]

cartoons, but you get the popcorn and coke.

[B]

So it's like $95. But sure,

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

Yeah, I love the Santal. The first time I wore it, Mike was like, what is that new perfume? I was like, no, girl, it's the order. I am obsessed with it. It's so luxury. It's so fresh. I just really, really love it. It smells amazing.

[B]

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[A]

My favorite is the discovery set. Because sometimes either you don't know exactly what scent you're going to want or if you want to like change it up throughout the week. Yeah, so I'm all about those discovery sets.

[B]

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[B]

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[B]

That's salt and stone.com and use code tco for 15% off your first order. But don't get that bergamot. That's just for Steve.

[A]

Summer's coming. You don't want to stink.

[B]

It's true.

[A]

So please. Our friend Aaron one day gets an email from this guy named Jeff. And Jeff is like, oh my God, Aaron, I just saw your photo on a dating site and I think you're super pretty. And can we get to know each other? So Aaron's like, hell yes. And Aaron of course, tells her bestie Sarah, like, oh, my God, this guy Jeff, like, I'm really excited. And, you know, I got a match and hooray. Like, what any bestie would do.

[C]

And Sarah's like, so Aaron is narrating this to Sarah while they're on the phone. And Sarah says, I cannot believe this, but I know Jeff. He's my husband Adam's best friend.

[B]

I know this guy Jeff because he's my husband Adam's best friend. Now when they show us this in the episode, they flash up a picture of these two men with their eyes blacked out.

[A]

I was like, what are the odds?

[B]

What's going on here? Yeah, what's happening?

[A]

They did not sit down for this.

[B]

They did not.

[A]

They're probably just a random picture she got. She doesn't even know them.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

I would guess.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

So anyway, Erin, of course, responds to Jeff's email. They're talking all the time. He's so sweet, complimenting her tell. He's like, Is eventually telling her that he loves her. They want to have kids, they want to buy a house. Aaron goes, he told me everything I wanted to hear. Like, Aaron has done the work. Erin knows exactly what happened. And she's telling us very honestly.

[B]

And, like, we all love Aaron so much. I'm like, jeff, can you make yourself known in real life?

[A]

It was Aaron. I mean, it was Sarah.

[B]

That's what I'm saying. You know what I mean? I'm like, like, my. My point is, I just want Aaron's little heart to be protective, of course.

[A]

But, like, Sarah is taking advantage of the fact that maybe they physically couldn't meet if he was disabled. And, like, it's just a perfect way to pray from this, like, asshole of a person.

[B]

Like, I gotta tell you, this series is great. And they. They get these salacious stories, but, like, this is really fucking sad.

[A]

It's really sad.

[B]

There should be a mandatory double life sentence for people who do things like

[A]

this because Erin is saying, like, I

[G]

fell really hard and we're fast. I think it was just a hope I'm actually having a future with a guy that would love me for me and not judge me for my disability.

[A]

Just to be with someone who would love me for me and not judge me by my disability.

[B]

Yeah. And like, journalist Sarah is saying, like, Aaron is an adult who lives with her parents. She's very well aware of her own limitations.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And Jeff is just, like, offering her the world. And it's, like, not a surprise to learn that all of this is fake, and Sarah's behind all of it. So, like, I'm not giving anything away to say. What kind of evil fucking asshole do you have to be?

[A]

Who was, like, getting all the information from our friend Aaron while they were chatting all day, every day. So she knows exactly what to have quote Jeff say to Aaron.

[B]

And I was thinking about this a lot today. Like, there's something really wrong with Sarah. She's not just a mean person. Like, there's something really, really wrong with her.

[A]

Yeah, no, she's not.

[B]

Well, no, I mean, like, no excuse,

[A]

but, like, she's just not, like, clearly

[B]

have to be a legitimately soulless person. This is like murder as far as, like, really bad. It's that level of not caring at all about other people.

[A]

Well, guess what? Tragedy is about to strike. Sarah calls our friend Aaron and is like, oh, my God, Jeff and my husband Adam, because remember, they're best friends.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They were in a car accident. My husband Adam survived, but Jeff was killed. And on top of that, salt in the wound.

[G]

But then later on, Sarah called me and told me Jeff and Adam got in a car accident. And in the end, Adam with the. Jeff died. After he passed away, she said he was gonna go to California and propose to you. I have the ring.

[A]

Sarah's like, oh, this seems like a good time to tell you the love of your life is dead. But also, he was gonna propose to you, so you almost had the perfect life.

[B]

Yeah. And she's like, I have the ring. And I'm like, cough it up, Sarah. Mail her the ring, girl.

[A]

And Erin's head is spinning. Like, wait, what? Like. And also, everything. We see this a million times. Like, they just. It's not love bombing, but it's just, like, crazy bombing. So the chaos becomes normal. But also, now we're not even focused on the fact that. What are the odds that this guy who met me online knows you and you're. Now we're like, oh, my God, he's dead.

[B]

Well, and also. Cause Aaron says I couldn't even. Aaron knows something is up here. But she's like, I couldn't even question Sarah because she was such a big part of my life. And if I question her now, I lose Jeff, who may or may not exist, but then I also lose my best friend Sarah.

[A]

Right? And also, not to mention, Sarah is really going through it. She had Ebola. She's had cancer multiple times. She has a tumor in her spine that paralyzed her. She was having multiple seizures every day, like, violent seizures. Like, this is the Worst. And nothing that our friend Aaron.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is going through could even compare. So it's best that Erin just stay supportive of her friends. Are.

[B]

In 5, 6, 7, 8. Sarah gets on a zoom with Aaron and then has a massive seizure in the middle of the zoom call just to really drive it home.

[A]

Faking a seizure, like, fudge you.

[B]

I can't even imagine.

[A]

Fudge you. Punch Nazis and punch Sarah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Don't do like faking a violent seizure like that.

[B]

I know.

[A]

My God. Just like, do you come up with that?

[B]

I know. To be like, you know what I really need to do? I really need just to prove that I really have this disorder. How much you fake Ebola, Sarah. How about you wrap yourself up in like a thick blanket and be like, it's freezing in here. It's the Ebola.

[A]

And you know what I mean? If you want. Here's my thing too. If you want attention, which fine, clearly she does, then, like, go online and lie safely.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

In a way where like, you're just posting and everyone's like, oh, my God, I feel so bad for you, Sarah. But to.

[B]

Those people are evil too.

[A]

They super are. But like, to. To like, there's levels of it where she's choosing, yeah, rope our friend Aaron into this and ruin her life and emotionally abuse her.

[B]

Because I think the damage and the causing of the hurt is part of what she's. She's not just trying to lie. She's like literally trying to damage these people. And I. Part of me thinks that, like, we're going to learn, like, this woman is a total sociopath. And I, I just wonder if part of it isn't like, when people are devastated. What do they look like? I need to get on a zoom call and, and see, I have to create the. I have to create the tragedy so I can actually see what, like, devastation really looks.

[A]

You want to talk devastation? Guess what?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

After these violent seizures, the next day,

[G]

Sarah's sister that called and says Sarah is in drug induced coma. So Gabby was kind of keeping me updated and I got really close because she didn't have her big sister and I didn't have my best friend.

[B]

And I'm like. So Sarah's now doing voices as Gab?

[A]

Oh, sure. Yeah.

[B]

What.

[A]

How many profiles do we have? We have Sarah, we have Gabby, we have Jeff.

[B]

Adam.

[A]

Adam.

[B]

These are just the ones we know about, Right?

[A]

Right. So far, that's four. Oh, I don't even. I can't even keep one social media profile.

[B]

Here's the thing. Like, we talk about this all the time. But like these, every case we cover is more exhausting than the last. Keeping the ruse up, but that's gotta be part of it.

[A]

And I wonder if Erin is the only one she's doing this to right now. At this level, she's probably. It would make more sense to like, well, have Jeff be talking to a couple people if you're gonna make Jeff that. Have him to be, you know.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Abusing so many other people.

[B]

Oh, my God. Well, Sarah recovers.

[A]

Oh, good.

[B]

And now Gabby is constantly in the hospital for having like different surgeries. Then Gabby dies at age 13.

[A]

13. She dies and Aaron is like, God, I forgot that.

[B]

Like, I forgot this in my notes. I'm looking at my own notes, horrified. Like, poor Gabby is dead.

[A]

And also, this has been going on for two years because Gabby used to be 11, now she's 13. So this grooming and this abuse has been going on on daily basis. 10 out 10, 12, 18 hours a day.

[B]

Can you imagine getting Ebola, Then the double spine cancer. Then your 13 year old sister dies.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

God.

[A]

She had multiple cancers and surgeries and illnesses. And then your husband's best friend is dead in a car accident. It's, I mean, what a mess.

[B]

She's going through a real hard time.

[A]

Really crazy. And Aaron is saying the same thing.

[G]

Like at this point it was like, okay, God, like, how much can you put one person through before you're like, okay, enough of them. Yeah.

[A]

This is so unfair. Enough is enough.

[B]

I know it's not about me, but when there, Remember when there was like Ebola in New York City a couple years ago?

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Like maybe 10 years ago, there was like an Ebola outbreak in New York. And it was like a doctor got it from a patient who came back from overseas or whatever. The doctor lived one block away from me and took the same train that I took home from the hospital the night he got the ebol. So like they obviously, they quarantined him in the hospital, but before they knew he had it, he had been on the train. I always take, I'm like, I'm going to get Ebola on the D train. And I'm like, that's going to be the name of my, of my memoir.

[A]

You didn't.

[B]

I didn't get a bowl, but for like a minute I was really worried I was going to get it.

[A]

Well, a lot of people getting it from him on the train.

[B]

I mean, I don't think anybody did. I think if I can worry, I'm just going to Worry big.

[A]

Was it real?

[B]

The Ebola was real. I remember like I remember when they had him quarantined in the hospital.

[A]

I'm like, was he, was he wearing a bad fake mustache and a bad wig and what's his name actually?

[B]

Because now that you mention it, fake doctor at like wherever.

[A]

I mean that's now next. I literally this that new documentary my DMs will be filled. Oh my God. You guys are just talking about. Yeah, I mean I'm waiting for that.

[B]

I only ask you this because it's like number one on Apple podcasts. Are you listening to the love fraud podcast?

[A]

No one recovered.

[B]

No, it's a. It's just another one. It's with Clayton from the Bachelor or whatever. It's crazy. I mean it's like it is the most insane. It will be a documentary within six months.

[A]

Okay, great.

[B]

We'll do it. Yeah. Yeah, girl. Haya is back. Look. These are the amazing vitamins for kids. Daisy absolutely loves them. It's the first thing she takes ever since single morning. She looks forward to it. It makes her feel like a big kid.

[A]

Yeah, they're delicious but also actually packed with things you want. Not like sugar totally dyes and all of the artificial stuff.

[B]

Some of those big names on the on the supermarket shelves contain up to 7 grams of sugar per serving and are stuffed with artificial additives and petroleum based dyes. Not higher girl.

[A]

Yeah. And this is for all kids. Right. So it's designed for kids to and up higher ships straight to your door. You get this awesome reusable bottle with your first order. Then they send the refills and they also send stickers so the kids can like be involved in decorating their bottle.

[B]

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[A]

Yeah. One fight you don't have to have anymore.

[B]

Literally the take it where I can get it.

[A]

The end.

[B]

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Go to h I y a h e a l t h.com/tco and get your kids the full body nourishment they need to grow into healthy adults.

[B]

And that like veggie packed chocolate milk.

[A]

And the stickers.

[B]

And the stickers.

[A]

Most importantly. Here's what's interesting though. When. Remember when Erin met Sarah at camp? Sarah was the counselor.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And she was providing care for Erin. But now it's like a few years later.

[C]

What's amazing is that when Erin knew her, Sarah was the one providing the care. But when she showed up at Camp Summit years later, she arrived as someone who needed that same level of care.

[A]

Sarah is back at the camp, but not as a counselor. As someone who is in need of care because she's had the worst two years of her life.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And now all of these illnesses have occurred and now she's a camper at this camp.

[B]

I hope she doesn't bring the ebola to the camp.

[A]

I mean, let's go to Indiana.

[B]

We're gonna go Indiana. We're gonna meet Bethany and her dogs.

[A]

We only get one name. Ruby.

[B]

I only wrote it down. This is the thing. I never would have even noticed did I not know you.

[A]

I love the name Ruby.

[B]

Is Ruby a pitbull?

[A]

I don't know which one is Ruby necessarily.

[B]

She making Ruby do the shake.

[A]

She's like, come on.

[B]

Getting really excited.

[A]

I think she. Ruby was a little bit of a bulldog from in the bulldog.

[B]

Is that what it is?

[A]

I think so.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I love them all. She has like three dogs.

[B]

Golden and I have come a long way. Golden now comes with me everywhere.

[A]

Great.

[B]

If I go to pick Daisy up, he comes. If I go down to like little

[A]

carry, carrying case, whatever they call it. Carrying.

[B]

No, he just runs. His face is so cute.

[A]

It's very cute.

[B]

I feel like he's matured. My baby's growing up.

[A]

The muppetier a dog like that is, the better. When we had Alfie, he was a shi poo and we adopted him from whatever. He was adorable. But the. The muppetier he. His face was, the cuter he was. But of course, in the summer.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Got to get the haircut because they

[B]

just hate it and they're very embarrassed to get the Short haircut.

[A]

They're still adorable, but they're. They do. It's a very, very different look.

[B]

It's the better as far as face is so cute.

[A]

I love them all the same.

[B]

Golden. God damn it.

[A]

So, Bethany, a couple things about Bethany. Bethany was Sarah's camp counselor. She also grew up in a cult.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And she doesn't want to talk about. And that's fine. She talks about. We don't know what cult it is. I'm not going to pry.

[B]

I. All I can tell you is that I know two other people from Indiana who also grew up in a cult. And I was wondering if it was the same, but I couldn't.

[A]

What cult?

[B]

I don't know. I don't know. I actually don't know the name of it. What? Yeah.

[A]

Amanda on Real Housewives of Beverly Hills allegedly grew up in a cult, too. And it real. And it ended up being like, she just went to a really religious school. Jennifer Tilly's like, but what kind of cult, though? But what kind of cult? And she's like. Like, I just left one day. And it's like, that shouldn't be that easy.

[B]

Is that really a good.

[A]

Just like a really controlling university. Amanda, like, shut up. I'm manifest that. Amanda goes away.

[B]

Okay, great.

[A]

But here's the thing. Like most cults, again, I'm not prying with Bethany, but she says, like, the

[E]

situations I was put in in that cult was very traumatizing. Sorry, I'm trying to stop crying, too. So I saw a lot. I heard a lot. And I watched girls be put in situations where judgment and shame were kind of the narrative. Narrative. And so I left.

[A]

Whatever happened to Bethany? Like, she's been through some shit, but she leaves the cult, which is hard for many reasons. And one of those reasons is, like, the cult almost always talks a lot of shit about you, which happens to Bethany.

[B]

You're instantly shunned. And so she says, I didn't have any community. So in order to build a community, she was volunteering with nonprofits. So she worked with AmeriCorps for a year. She taught English in the Dominican Republic. And then she works at that camp summit where Sarah and Aaron both when. So, like, this is. We're getting back to the camp summit because Bethany goes to work there, which. It's the outdoor camp for adults with disabilities.

[A]

Yeah. And she's telling us about, like, the bonfires, the cookouts, horseback riding, swimming. I was actually on the website. It looks pretty awesome.

[B]

I was going to say those bonfires looked epic.

[A]

Yeah. And they also, they say on their website that they won't turn you away if they. If you can't pay. They'll like, they'll work with you to make it happen. Everything about this camp, from what I know, you had a horrible experience there. I'm sorry. But I'm saying what I learned today is that it's all about like, they make shit happen for you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What you think can't happen for you.

[B]

They're making it happen for you. Yes.

[A]

You think you can't pay. Don't worry about it. You think you can't go horseback riding.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Watch it happen.

[B]

Because also these kids, these counselors aren't just like the counselors during the day, they're the live in care at night. So they're literally doing it all.

[A]

And so we're in Paradise, Texas, at camp summit. It's 2015. Sarah is back at the camp, not as a counselor, but as a camper this time. And she has muscular dystrophy and she's in a wheelchair now. That's a big turn of events.

[B]

Yeah. And Bethany says the first time she sees Sarah, it was on move in day and she came in in a power wheelchair. And like, this is what everybody says about Sarah. Big smile, just fun, gregarious. Everybody loved her. The only thing that had, like, mobility on was her hand, her, like, wrist.

[A]

Like she could. She could operate her wheelchair and that's it.

[B]

Other than that, she's completely immobile and relying on Bethany and the other counselors for everything.

[A]

So we meet Carrie, who is Sarah's unit leader, which means that she was the lead counselor for Sarah's cabin for the week. She was there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So Kerry's responsibilities and all of the counselors, they were giving assistance in the. In the restroom, assistance bathing, helping with eating, helping with activities. Like, very hands on.

[B]

I just, I can't say it enough because my mom is in a nursing home and my mom needs this level of. And I have met her nurses, and they are the most. The people who do this kind of work for other people are like, you cannot. I could cry just thinking about it. It is the. It is the absolute. It's like not a job, it's a calling. It is the absolute definition of selflessness. Like, amazing.

[A]

Yeah. And like the thing about this camp, like I was saying, they will do whatever it takes to help you do the activities that you want to do, which is wonderful. So like, Sarah wanted to go on the zip line. They found a way to make that happen for her.

[E]

So she Went across pretty quick and then got onto the platform on the other side where other caregivers were there waiting. And I remember they lowered her down and she laid on the platform and she just sobbed. Like, that was the best experience. Thank you for doing this for me. Like, I've never been able to do anything like that before. And we were all just around her, like, cheering, like, I'm glad you had fun. You know, this is why we're here. I'm so glad that you get to experience this.

[A]

Everyone is cheering. It's like a beautiful, emotional moment all across the board, campers and counselors alike.

[B]

It's interesting because Beth Caris breaks in here to be like, hey, just. Hey, it's me, Beth Caris. Just wanted to give you a quick psa. Hi, how's it going? Hey, if you ever, like, have intuition, intuition that, like, you're feeling like something that you're seeing isn't quite right.

[A]

Beth, I know. I tried.

[B]

I know, I know, I know. I know you more than anybody.

[A]

We'll talk one day.

[B]

But Beth just pops in to say, like, you start to get the sense from these counselors, like Bethany and Carrie, that, like, maybe we didn't exactly think that. That Sarah needed the level of care she was getting.

[A]

Well, let me tell you something.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

There's a whiff of that. They're the monsters.

[B]

Of course. Of course. Of course.

[A]

And people like Sarah do this because there's no. No one is going to be the one that's like. Like, did her leg just move? Like, nobody that's like, should we tickle

[B]

her and see what happens?

[A]

Talk about ostriches. Like, you can't be the person that's like, I don't think I believe the person in the wheelchair like you.

[B]

It's like that episode of the Brady Bunch, I think it is, where, like.

[A]

Like, the guy, Davy Jones showed up.

[B]

Not that one, though. We do love that.

[A]

The only one I know, it was

[B]

like, the fake car accident, and, like, they're in court, and then Mike, the dad, throws the beefcakes on the ground and the guy turns his head around.

[A]

They go to court in the Brady Bunch.

[B]

Yeah, I think it's the. Maybe I make it. Maybe it was 90210. I can't remember. Could have been the golden girl. Girls. One of those. Somebody has the foresight to throw a briefcase on the ground and the guy snaps his head around, and then it's like, case dismissed.

[A]

This is like the end of Many a Colombo.

[B]

It sounds like it.

[A]

So good.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Yeah, the best one is the Dick Van Dyke episode. I don't even want to say. I can't.

[B]

Well, tell us.

[A]

Okay. He's a photographer.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And so Columbo learns. I'm so sorry. It's the best reveal ever. But basically he gets Dick Van Dyke

[B]

60 years to watch. You know what I mean? It's not a spoiler.

[A]

He gets Dick Van Dyke. He's, like, talking about. Columbo is wrongly talking about photography. And it's pissing Dick Van Dyke, who's been annoyed by him from the minute one, which is the trope of Columbo. But sometimes the murderers are, like, more annoyed than usual. Dick Van Dyke is like. He's really going against type. It's Dick Van Dyke and he's like the mean murderer guy who hates Columbo. And Columbo's just like, yeah, well, this and this and this. And he gets Dick Van Dyke to be like, no, no, no, that's not what I did. And I'll show it to you. And, like, goes and picks up the evidence and, like, proves it.

[B]

You can't handle the truth.

[A]

And then the moment. And Columbo and Peter Falk is just like chef's kiss. And he's just like. And there's a moment. And like you as a viewer, Colombo just goes to all the other cops and he goes, are you a witness to what he just did? Are you a witness to what he just did?

[B]

And Aaron, give her the hat. Give her the hat, Aaron.

[A]

The trench coat.

[B]

Yeah, and the trench coat.

[A]

Thank you so much to what he just did. It is perfect. But you can't. Colombo can do that.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

People at this camp cannot.

[B]

You can't walk around tickling Sarah to see what happens as much as you want to.

[A]

So this morning routine is described to us. So they help Sarah out of bed into her wheelchair, like, totally normal stuff. Taking her to the bathroom and all of her hygiene needs. This included Sarah having her period for the. And like, normally that's, like, really part of the gig. It's not weird. It's not, bro. It's just like what they're doing, right? But Bethany makes a point to say

[E]

she had to use the restroom a lot that week. At one point, it was north of 10 in a day because she needed pads changed and her wheelchair was huge. And it was very hard to maneuver at 90 degree angles where we needed to get it around the toilet. It would take at least two people to transfer her onto a toilet. So I'm trying to get her up, turn her at a 45 degree angle. I have never been so sore in my life.

[A]

All week they were in the bathroom with Sarah a lot. Like upwards of about ten times a day.

[B]

Yeah. And part of me was like, maybe this is too icky to mention, but like, part of me was like, was Sarah faking it for physical touch? Like, was she like, it felt like she needed people to be touching her.

[A]

It felt like a humiliate, a humiliation ritual knowing that I'm not like. And to be clear, in the real world, when someone needs that assistance, it's fine. It's not weird. Of course it's not humiliating. It's like these angel people are doing it, but when you're faking it and like scheduling to go when you have your period.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then taking laxatives or whatever.

[B]

And Bethany shudders at the memory. Like, she's like. Because Bethany doesn't like you're saying, think it's gross to have to do that for like in a regular. Right. But like now looking back on this and realizing that like Sarah set all of this up, Bethany, like, she just can't believe that she was taken advantage

[A]

of to that level in a very intimate, very vulnerable.

[B]

Vulnerable.

[A]

It's horrible what she did. And again, to be clear, so that it's not misconstrued, it's only awful because she's lying.

[B]

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[B]

Inc. Ends May 31, 2026 at 11:59pm E. Tea so then Bethany starts to talk about, like, how she's and we we've seen Sarah do this. Bethany says Sarah started to mirror her behavior. If she's in tears, Sarah's in tears. If Bethany's having a bad day, Sarah's

[A]

having She only has a week to love bomb these people. Yeah, she's got to work really hard.

[B]

And once again, Bethany and Sarah develop a very intense, very fast friendship. So at the end of the week, they say goodbye to each other. They're all going to come back for the spring session. Sarah's going back. Bethany's coming back. But then in the winter, Bethany finds out that she's pregnant and so she's not going to be going back for the SP fling. And she lets Sarah know.

[E]

Sarah's interest in my pregnancy ran pretty Deep to the point where, you know, Sarah would just ask me for my ultrasounds pretty frequently. You never sent me the ultrasounds. I thought that was weird.

[A]

Sarah is asking no less than 1 million questions about the pregnancy and demanding to be sent to ultrasounds.

[B]

Yeah, it's so weird. And once again, there's all of this connection. But I guess it makes more sense because Sarah and Bethany are both adults, whereas, like, Aaron was a kid and Sarah was an adult. So that felt weirder to me.

[A]

I mean, demanding someone like, she asked for the ultrasound and Bethany's like, and I didn't get around to it because I have a life. And then she would be like, where's the ultrasound? It's like, oh, you could try to steal her ultrasound. I mean, you can use it on some other unsuspecting victim.

[B]

So we go to Chattanooga, Tennessee, spring 2016. This is the spring week of camp.

[A]

And Bethany's not there, Bethany's not there. So Bethany gets a phone call and they're like, hey, we need to tell you something about Sarah because you were close with her when she was here and you guys were here together. Like something happened and I hope you're sitting down.

[B]

Midweek, Sarah's family, her pastor, they all show up at the camp. They bring Sarah up to the office in her motorized wheelchair. Sarah sees her family, sees the pastor, doesn't say a word to anybody.

[E]

She pulled up in the wheelchair and stood up, didn't say anything to anybody, just got in the van, they closed the door and drove off. She was able bodied and was lying about all of this.

[B]

Stands up out of the wheelchair. Bye.

[A]

See everybody, there's a little wink and a smile and a wave. Top of the morning bows and off

[B]

she goes, gets in the car, and everybody just takes off. And like, everybody around her is gobsmacked, stunt, absolutely stunned.

[A]

She was lying the entire time. The violation of that kind of a lie in that environment, like, no one knows how to handle it.

[B]

No. Bethany is saying that this betrayal caused, like, actual physical pain. Like, in this moment, Bethany is reflecting on everything that we already said that she had to do for Sarah during the week that they were there. And the amount of empathy and compassion and love she probably felt for this person, all of it was fake.

[A]

Who could and all of that and time and resources and love and empathy and assistance for someone who actually needed it and deserved it and not some fucking liar.

[B]

Yeah. And also Beth Carra says to us, like, you have to remember, Bethany is going through her own healing process, like escaping from the Cult, building her own community, like recovering from her trauma. And this probably set her back because like you come out of the world of a cult, you don't know who you can trust. You go and you find this community. You are betrayed in this, like once in a lifetime way. All of a sudden you're back to who can I trust?

[A]

Right. And now like we're back with Aaron from earlier and it turns out now this whole lie has been happening between Aaron and Sarah for 12 years.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so this like word gets out because I guess Sarah is like known in this community now. And so word gets out that she's been lying the whole time. And this is when Aaron's like,

[G]

Jackson, Adam, real this whole time. Gabby wasn't a real person. The pictures that I was getting of Gabby were pictures of another friend of Sarah's.

[B]

The pictures Sarah sent of her of Gabby, her 13 year old dead sister never existed. And it was just like a picture of one of Sarah's friend's kids.

[A]

And Aaron confronts her and she's like, why did you do this? And Sarah, another lie. She's like, I don't know why. Yes, I do. Control and attention.

[B]

Yeah. You know, but ultimately also like just like severe. Something's fucking wrong with me, Ness.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like I just, I. I think about this all the time. Like people who want to murder, people who are pedophiles, people who do shit like this, do they ever have that moment of like, why am I like this?

[A]

It's a compulsion.

[B]

It is. You know, but it's like, were you born with it? Did something happen? I, I'm, I'm just like so curious about that side of it.

[A]

And when people just have been getting away with shit, they just get more and more brazen.

[B]

Yes. And you probably need more and more and more to satisfy whatever it was that it used to be satisfied just by faking that you were.

[A]

Now, Beth Karras cannot stand for this. And she gets emotional, which we very rarely see from Beth.

[B]

Yeah. I do want to say Beth Carris points out that Sarah stole their time, which I thought was very important.

[A]

Well, that's what I mean. Like time and energy and resources that like someone else should have been receiving.

[B]

Yeah, fuck you 100%. But she says, because this is when Beth reminds us again that she had brothers that were in wheelchairs. And they passed away a long time ago.

[A]

John and Joe.

[B]

John and Joe. And like the first time I saw this, I started to cry. Yeah. Because Beth, who we just love, and Beth, just a good person with A great skincare routine.

[A]

I'm getting a lot of DMS about the toner, by the way. Everyone's like, toner after serum. Doesn't make any sense. And I'm like, thank you.

[B]

I wanted to know more about the red face mask thing. The red light mask. I'm going to get one probably. But to this day, Beth says, to this day, when I am getting out of the subway and I'm looking up at the stairs and there's no elevator. I think my brothers are named Joe and John. And I think I couldn't get them up the stairs. Stairs. How would I get them up the stairs? To this day, I still think about that. I can't get them. How do I do? What do I do? And she's just like. She's just so devastated by, like, the amount of love and care and thought and attention that she still puts into the care of her brothers all these years later after they've passed. And, like, the fact that somebody would take advantage of somebody's emotions like that Beth Caris will not stand for it

[A]

on so many levels time and time again. So many people. I mean, there are countless people, I'm sure, who aren't sitting down for this documentary. Yeah. That Sarah did this, too. So here's the thing. When Sarah is caught, this is what these people do. When Sarah's caught, she goes to you and moves on.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, it's the same routine every single time. So now we meet Elizabeth.

[B]

Listen, Elizabeth Hickox from Rhode Island. I said she is here over the phone. She is a fancy lady.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We see the exterior of her house. She lives in Taylor Swift's mansion in Newport.

[A]

I'm telling the house.

[B]

Yes. It is the biggest house I've ever seen. It's on the. I love that Elizabeth wants to tell her story, but she does not want to show her face in an ID documentary.

[A]

Not giving this asshole anymore no time or attention. So Liz was a volunteer for the Young Survival Coalition. Cycling. So it's for like cancer survivors and patients, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. So Sarah tells Elizabeth, oh, my God. They, like, meet at this event, this cycling event. So Sarah tells Liz that she was a flight attendant and then she's on leave from a flight attendant and she has a 14 month old and Sarah's getting treatment and now she has stage four cancer and. Oh, my God. I got the call two minutes ago. Liz, you're the first person I'm telling.

[B]

I just hung up the phone when you walked over to say, I haven't told my husband.

[A]

Yet Bullshit.

[B]

Ye.

[A]

They also don't give you that information over the phone.

[B]

No, exactly, exactly. But like Liz is saying to us, like, that really just grabbed me. Well, of course it did, Liz. That was the point.

[A]

Right. And like, in the middle of all of this, Sarah, for some reason, is healthy enough to fly down to Florida and visit Liz.

[B]

Yeah. So, like, Liz has many homes. One in like, one in Rhode Island. Now we're in the Fort Lauderdale house. And like, we. We learned this thing, that this organization, it's like a. It's a biking thing, is like their big fundraiser.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And if you can't afford to a bike, but you want to participate, you can apply and the organization will give you a B.

[A]

And that's for survi. Cancer survivors and people in this community. It's not like I want to go be an ally and support you. I'm not applying for a bike.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Because this does not apply to me.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Thank God.

[B]

So Sarah applies for a bike, gets a bike. When she shows up at Liz's house,

[F]

when she took her bike out of the box, I said, well, that's interesting. That's not the bike that our charity gave you. Where did that bike come from? And she told me that Southwest Airlines had lost that bike when she flew home from the charity ride and that they had given her an insurance claim. And she went out and bought this bike, which was a little bit nicer.

[A]

Like, they give nice bikes to this charity, but this bike was even nicer than the nice bike we're going to learn later.

[B]

This bike is like a $4,500 bike. And like, the bike that the charity gave was worth like 650 bucks. But Sarah's got a story.

[A]

Of course she does.

[B]

Southwest Airlines lost Sarah's bike and she made an insurance claim, and they wrote her a check for 4,500 bucks, and she went out and bought this bike.

[A]

Right. So it's much nicer than the charity bike. But like, of course there's an explanation. Now Elizabeth is like, huh, Goes home. Doesn't need to be Colombo. Goes home, she gets the fuck to Google. As I said, Google's her and finds a bunch of shit out in about 2.5 seconds, which is wild.

[B]

Sarah lost her nursing license in Oklahoma. And in Virginia, the nursing board issued a notice saying that she had faked pregnancy not once, but twice.

[A]

I mean, the cancer is fake, obviously. Yes. We have insurance fraud at the very least.

[B]

Well, but as soon as Liz finds out about this, to divert Liz away from the nursing and the cancer fraud Sarah invents a stalker.

[A]

Yes, that's.

[B]

She now tells us Liz, like, who did all the cooking and got all the information, is still in communication with Sarah. And she's like. Sarah tells her the stalker is texting her because the stalker is in love with Sarah's husband.

[A]

Imagine her husband.

[B]

Imagine her husband. They're going to be together forever. Sarah is not pretty enough for him.

[F]

Anyway, she told me that this stalker knows how to cut the brakes on a car and make a death look like an accident. The FBI was involved. They wanted to set up a trap for the stalker. And they wanted Sarah to go to store in o', Fallon, Illinois, and just shop to try to lure her out.

[B]

They're setting up a sting at, like,

[A]

a Walmart and the FBI needs Liz's help. But Sarah is communicating, is the middle person for the FBI. And Liz and Liz is. Is like, okay, so the plan is Sarah's going to be bait for the stalker, and the stalker is going to, like, kill her in the Target parking lot.

[B]

Right?

[A]

This is the story.

[B]

And so your face, I know you

[A]

guys, it's never the Target parking lot being trafficked in the Target parking lot.

[B]

I have heard horrible stories about things that do happen, though, in the Target parking lot.

[A]

Did you hear about it on TikTok?

[B]

No, it was on an episode of Dateline or something. Bad like Bach can happen anywhere. But it's like, not as bad as you think.

[A]

Right. Well, Sarah is going to be just

[B]

for the Target parking lot.

[A]

Right? Or whatever. We hate Target now.

[B]

I guess, I guess, who knows?

[A]

But Sarah's gonna be bait for the stalker and gonna just, like, wander around the Target parking lot. So the stalker will want to kill her in broad daylight in a crowded parking lot. And Liz is going to be on FaceTime to make Sarah look like an average shopper.

[B]

Now, this FaceTime goes on for 45 minutes.

[A]

Makes no sense. So Sarah, just to be clear, Liz is not there. Liz is at home in one of her many houses.

[B]

And Liz already knows about the faked cancer, the lost nursing license, the fake pregnancy pregnancies. Liz is still going along to get along. Googling Liz.

[A]

And she hasn't spoken to a single FBI person. I know I was telling her to do that.

[B]

Like the barrage of information that Sarah had to give her all at once. So she forgot about the cancer and the fake pregnancies and the nursing license and the bike, the insurance fraud. Liz is going along.

[A]

Liz is doing it. So Sarah is like, the stalker's here. And Sarah runs. And Liz goes, she Told me that

[F]

shots had been fired. And then the call dropped and maybe about five minutes go by. And she called back and she said they got her, she's been apprehended. She said there were, you know, seven bullets shot. You know, five people were injured and that a bullet hit her in the knee.

[A]

Seven bullets were fired, five people were injured. I crazy Sarah got shot in the knee. And the craziest part about this, not a single piece of media picked it up.

[B]

Can you imagine two o' clock on

[A]

a Tuesday in a Target parking lot,

[B]

who is making a phone call having been just shot in the knee and like the bullet is still warm, you know what I mean?

[A]

And also no one's on their phone. No, no one recorded this.

[B]

There's no, like, yeah, no one's screaming.

[A]

Like she still has her phone.

[B]

She's bleeding out from the knee. The bill. The bullet is still spinning.

[A]

Yeah, this never happened.

[B]

No, this never happened.

[A]

In fact, police confirm this to Liz. Cuz Liz calls the cops and she's like, are you, did you guys go to the parking lot at Target because of the seven people that were killed? And they laugh in her face. They laugh, laugh at her.

[B]

The stalker massacre in the Target parking lot.

[A]

So Liz is pissed and also now terrified because what is this person capable of? Not actually thinking there's going to be a gunfight in her driveway. But like, what is the Sarah person capable of?

[B]

Liz is also. Somebody will learn in the end who never forgets. She doesn't forgive. We're starting to collect these ladies who are never going to get over it. I thank God. This episode is brought to you by IQ Bar, our exclusive snack hydration and coffee sponsor.

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[A]

Sampler Pack. I'm telling you, truly, not just a

[B]

clever name, but it is clever.

[A]

It is clever. So we have Sarah's backstory. Kind of.

[B]

So Sarah grew up in the suburbs of Illinois in a town called Highland. Her parents divorced when she was a baby. The dad was a long haul trucker, so he wasn't around a lot. According to producer Ainsley, Sarah had some level of trauma in her past, but we don't ever learn what that is.

[A]

We don't hear about it.

[B]

Yeah, but apparently this trauma convinced her that lying is easier than telling the truth.

[A]

I mean, no, it didn't.

[B]

I like Ainsley, and you got a tough job, but I don't think that that's right.

[A]

No, it just didn't.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Like, look at Bethany was in a cult. And look at Bethany. Is Bethany pulling this shit? No.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Like, no, it didn't.

[B]

Do we have any members of the fam currently in a cult that are listeners? If you are, make yourselves known.

[A]

I don't think that could be possible.

[B]

They're probably not allowed to listen to us. I don't know. Maybe. Maybe they listen on the. I'm not making light. If you're in a call, I want you out. Like, DM us. We'll get you out.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

I totally.

[A]

So Liz is now. She's been doing this since high school, at the very least.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So Liz is now tracking down other victims and calls Bethany the camp counselor, and Liz gets them on Phil's show.

[B]

I was going to say, you got to say the name of the show.

[A]

That guy Phil had a show.

[B]

We're back on that show. Phil.

[A]

Phil.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And Liz. Dr. Phil. But I know, I know.

[B]

We don't say doctor because he was never. He was only a doctor for, like, five minutes.

[A]

Anyway, Phil is covering this asshole. I will. Sarah's, like, brought out some bullshit apology.

[E]

So at the end of the episode, she agreed to go to a mental health treatment facility that Dr. Dr. Phil had set up. And so she left the show and went straight to that facility in Southern California. And then to find out, a few weeks later, she left the facility and just went back home.

[A]

And it ends with Sarah agreeing to Quote, go to treatment. But we know how that goes.

[B]

Yeah, we covered that Phil documentary where, like, they send you to a rehab that Phil is getting paid for. Right.

[A]

It's almost.

[B]

Right. And so, like, after a week, she leaves. And this is where Phil says, like, Phil looks at her in the face. So one thing that Phil says that I agree with. You're a total sociopath.

[A]

Yes. Accurate.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Andrea Smith is here. She is a spinal muscular atrophy advocate. Her friend sends her the Phil app and they're like, this is crazy Sarah. Right? Doesn't it sound exactly like her? And they're like, holy shit, it's her.

[B]

Hang on a second. The greatest thing that you do now is say Phil. It's like, it is the funniest thing.

[A]

Like, the only thing about him that I know for sure is not a lie. That his name is Phil or is. It

[B]

sends her the Phil episode. I gotta tell you, Andrea, I think, is my favorite person in this entire documentary.

[A]

She's great. She's like, oh, I'll tell you a story.

[B]

She gets receipts and she does not fuck around. And she also, like, doesn't mince words. She's got like some choice turns of phrases here.

[A]

No, she's great. So here's what Andrea tells us. In 2006, she was a stay at home mom in South Carolina. Her friend loses her daughter to sma, which is spinal muscular atrophy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so Andrea's getting involved to raise money for the cause and she's throwing some events and she's in this online community with a chat room, and that's where she meets Connie.

[B]

Can I just say we get this moment with Andrea where we're back from an ad and Andrea is doing yoga. She goes, my friend has a theory that everyone is a Winnie the Pooh character. And they say, you're a kanga. Because everybody you care about, you adopt them, you put them in your pocket and you hop around with them. You're a very protective mother figure. But then Andrea says, but the other thing about me is that I'm also dangerous. If you me off, I'm done with you. I had my. So she gets a tattoo that's part kangaroo with a scorpion's tail.

[A]

Nice.

[B]

Tells you everything you need to.

[A]

And look, she's been burned before.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Totally learning. She's putting up boundaries and I appreciate

[B]

that she answered the phone before it rang, when they were calling to ask if she would do this.

[A]

I've been waiting for this my whole.

[B]

My whole life. Yeah.

[A]

So this chat room is Where Andrea meets Connie, and Connie's son Drake was. It's Sarah. Just so. Because I know we're meeting a lot of names. I'm just telling you, like, this is, like, so Connie. Her son Drake was just diagnosed with sma. Connie's a wreck. Right on cue. Oh, my God. Megan joins the chat. Meghan has literally entered the chat, and she has a little girl also with sma. And Megan and Connie are talking in the public chat.

[D]

But weirdly, they both misspelled the same common word the same way tomorrow. T o M A R R O W from, you know, Drake and Connie. And then, oh, Lily is so beautiful. Have a great birthday tomorrow. T o m A r R O W. Love, Megan and Brooke. And I'm like, oh, my God, this bitch is talking to herself.

[A]

Oh, my God, this bitch is talking to herself.

[B]

Because there's, like, she's watching the exchanges between Megan and Connie and. And they're both spelling the word. The word tomorrow with an A. T o M A R R O W. That is crazy. And I have one more story, and I have to tell you what. I'll tell it fast. I used to work with this woman who I loved to pieces when I was a concierge in Hoboken, New Jersey. She would say, oh, I put the key to the safe in the draw. Oh. Like, if you need something, it's in the top draw. And I was like, oh, okay. Like, that's just how she says the word drawer. She sent me an. She was closing one night. I was opening. She sent me an email that said, I've left the key in the top. Dr. R A W. Yep. I was like, oh, yeah. Oh, like that. That was amazing to me.

[A]

Yeah. Maybe that was how she said it. And then her brain was just like. That's just how it's spelled.

[B]

It was something that I, like, never. I never discussed it with her, but I'm like, this story is going to come in handy someday. Today is the day.

[A]

That's how she spells out.

[B]

T o m a R R O W. Well, you know what?

[A]

That's fine. She's not faking cancer.

[B]

No. Yes.

[A]

So that's allowed.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So Andrea says, oh, my God, this bitch is talking to herself. And she realizes that Connie and Meghan are the same person and they have the same IP address.

[B]

Amazing. She's like, let me prove this in five seconds. Because, you know that Sarah is such a dummy. She doesn't know anything about IP addresses. No.

[D]

So I got one Connie email, and I got one Megan email. I extended the headers, and lo and behold, they were both from the same IP address. I felt really comfortable saying Megan and Connie were the same person. We were able to track the IP addresses to Sarah Delashmit in Highland, Illinois.

[B]

Like, that is definitive proof. They came from the same computer. They're the same person.

[A]

And Sarah at this point is only 21 years old. She's living with her mother named Connie.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And this is when she's also chatting with Erin as Sarah. Right?

[B]

Right. Like, this is right after the summer where she was like the good counselor at the camp. Like, this is her early work.

[A]

So she's Sarah and she's Connie, but everything is a lie and she has, like, the kid and whatever. It's like, this is exhausting. Yes, this is exhausting. And again, not sustainable.

[B]

No, but it's like. It's the don't date Brandon thing. Like Brandon needed to do. He needed to create those 500 profiles and be chatting back and forth with himself, like, as his ex wife. And it's like, these people, I don't. I make it make sense because they're dead inside. Yeah.

[A]

This is what feeds them.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Some people eat pizza, some people do this.

[B]

I asked you to make it make sense and you did.

[A]

You know you did.

[B]

You nailed it.

[A]

Some people have food that's delicious and feeds their soul, or they watch movies that they love, or they hang out with their pets or whatever, and that feeds them. But then you looked at me as

[B]

the kids say dead ass, and you said, because she's dead inside and this feeds them.

[A]

This is like our 5,000th sometimes.

[B]

And I say this with love. Sometimes the saddest things in the world make. Make perfect sense to you. Yeah, that's hard.

[A]

Am I right?

[B]

Of course I know it's. But that's. I don't want that for you.

[A]

Right. But it is. I gotta tell you, sometimes it is helpful to just be like, see, I know the why it hurts.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And like, the trauma's there and like, I'm in pain that this person has done this or whatever. But, like, it is very helpful to be like, I don't have to unpack. Like, I wonder why they're doing this. Like, I'm just an asshole. Or they're just that. You know what I mean? Like that. Then I get to the therapizing faster. Cause I'm like, I don't need to unpack. I know exactly why they're doing this.

[B]

Because they're dead inside and it feeds them.

[A]

And like, whatever.

[B]

Okay, great.

[A]

So once you get there, it's kind of. It's a little bit helpful. That's a silver lining.

[B]

Oh, man. Been a long nine years.

[A]

I mean, sorry, everybody. That's. That's life, you know? But Sarah's everywhere in this community.

[D]

And that's when we started looking at the other chat boards, and we found her everywhere. She had been active on the Muscular Dystrophy association association chat boards, claiming she either had herself or had children with various forms of muscular dystrophy. There's something. There's something not right in there.

[A]

She's on all the websites.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

All the chat rooms. Like. And now that Andrea can spot the lie, it's like, you know, Connie, Megan, whatever. Like, Sarah's everywhere.

[B]

Andrea looks at, the camera goes. There's just something not right in there. Talking about Sarah's head, Andrea and I get each other. Yeah.

[A]

On a certain level.

[B]

I could see you with a kangaroo tattoo. That's like a scorpion tail.

[A]

No, But I'm glad that she has it because it means so much to her. It means nothing to me. And I'd be like, I hate this now. Now I have to deal with getting it removed. I don't want this.

[B]

No, I'm glad you didn't get it.

[A]

I don't want this.

[B]

But Andrea says, I hadn't thought about her for years until the Phil show.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then she said that, like, learning what she did by watching the Phil show, she wasn't surprised at all to learn that her behavior had escalated. And she's like, I think that she's going to continue to get worse because she's a total fucking sociopath.

[A]

Yeah. She calls her a dangerous sociopath. And it's only going to get worse because she's just getting away with it. And she's learning what works and what's. It doesn't work.

[B]

It's not good. Not on Andrea's watch. Because she knows. She calls Liz and Bethany from the Phil show, and she's like, look, I think that you guys actually have a case here. You could shut her down, because the bike situation seems to be fraud. Remember the organization? The organization gave her a bike. And then she all of a sudden had a different, much more expensive bike. So there's some shenanigans there. And so Liz is on the case, and she calls Officer David.

[A]

Right. And so he is told. Sarah's a liar. She has this bike that was donated to her, and it's valued at $650. And now this. The FBI is involved.

[B]

Right. So what Happened. And I love, too, that, like, FBI Scott is here, and he says the harm that Sarah Dash caused was phenomenal. What she stole went way beyond monetary value. She stole and harmed the emotions of people, a lot of very, very good people who were trying to do very, very good things. She stole and harmed people's emotions.

[A]

It's true.

[B]

I love that.

[A]

She's like a monster, and she betrayed everyone.

[B]

But we learned the second bike was bought on eBay for $4500 using her mother's credit card. She then lied to the bank saying it was an unauthorized transaction, and she kept the bike. I can't believe. And the money. I cannot believe this doesn't happen every day.

[A]

I think it does, just not on this level.

[B]

Have you ever had the thing where, like, your credit card gets stolen and you're like, I didn't make those five purchases, no questions asked? It's insane. It's wild. Wild.

[A]

I think these companies, because they're, like, zillion dollar companies, I think they consider it the cost of doing business.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Now, I would think a 40, $500 charge would maybe raise some flags, and she really had to lie more, which is, like, great for the case, I guess. But, yeah, I think.

[B]

What about, like, a $300 billion ballroom? What do you think about that? Do you think that should raise any flags?

[A]

It should. Dummies are falling for this shit.

[B]

It's coming out of all of our pockets. I know. It's. We're all paying for it.

[A]

I mean, we're paying for a whole hell of a lot of things.

[B]

I didn't mean to make your.

[E]

Sorry.

[A]

Why did I just apologize?

[B]

It's okay. We're almost done.

[A]

You know, 2020, we got a search warrant. The FBI takes the bike back. I love how they're like, we're taking this.

[B]

We're getting that. You know, we're getting out of here.

[A]

So she's. Sarah's indicted on eight counts, four counts of wire fraud, one count of mail fraud, and three counts of aggravated ID theft.

[B]

Now, did you catch. When we were getting this information, they do this, like, slow zoom in on this, like, fake regal judge. I thought it was, like, a real judge who was gonna then be like. And it's judge, like Mary Kazemeckis here to tell us about, like, the. No, it's like an actor, and, like, they just, like, zoom for no reason.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They just zoom in on this, like, super regal, beautiful looking judge, and that's the only time we ever see her.

[A]

Yeah. We could have gotten, like, a Stack of papers, like falling slowly or outside of a courthouse.

[B]

Totally even. Or like an FBI agent walking away with a fancy bike. Yeah. I love that. That lady had a job for a day.

[A]

That's great.

[B]

Yeah, but I was like, I was. I. She looked so much the part that I thought we were going to hear from her.

[A]

I wonder if she's in other episodes of the show. Oh, maybe if they just, like, had had her on set for a day

[B]

or two and then got all the Susan in the.

[A]

All the court stuff.

[B]

Let's get her in a. Let's get her in a. In a mall mom outfit.

[A]

Yeah, that would be great.

[B]

Grandma at a birthday party.

[A]

Good for her.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

Bad for Sarah.

[B]

Late in life. Yoga instructor.

[A]

Yeah. Sarah pleads guilty. She gets 18 months. She's. She is walking among us. She was out in 2022. She's. She lives with her mother. She has a baby.

[B]

Yeah. And she's.

[A]

Then this one.

[D]

Andrea goes, some advice to whoever knocked her up. Don't stick your. In the crazy.

[A]

Don't stick your dick in crazy.

[B]

That's wild.

[A]

Andrea, she's not wrong.

[B]

She's not wrong, but it's a hell

[A]

of a thing to say.

[B]

I love that they bleeped it, too.

[A]

Like, we're all adults here. So Ainsley, the producer of this very show, has been investigating this case, and she says that she's been contacting Sarah for several weeks with, quote, limited response. So Ainsley's like, fuck it. I'm making a house.

[B]

I love this because we met Ainsley earlier. She's the one who said that, like, her early trauma made her believe that, like, lying was better than telling the truth. No. But now Ainsley's like, ding, a ling, a linging on the door. And like, the mother. The mother answers the door. Ainsley's like, I'm a producer for this crazy show where we expose crazy people. And Sarah here, the mom's like, yep. Hang on just one second. Mom delivers Sarah to the door, grabs

[A]

her by her collar and drags her to the front door. And Ainsley and Sarah talk on the front stoop for 30 minutes. And she just explains that Sarah's like, panicking. She. All she wants is sympathy. She's just crying. She doesn't want to be outed and lose her job. And like some other producer who's also an FBI consultant, from behind the camera is like, ainsley.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're falling for her shit. He Very plainly, she's going to keep doing this. And Ains is like, I know.

[B]

I mean, Ainsley is young and she's. I feel like this is, like, maybe her first. Like, she's. Angela's gonna get there.

[A]

There's a time and a place to try to see good in people. This is not it.

[B]

No, this is definitely.

[A]

And the FBI guy from behind the camera is really very plainly saying, ainsley, do not fall for this. She will suck you in.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And this will be the rest of your life.

[B]

Yeah. Because, like, this is. This is how we get a Scamander. This is how we get that lady who run on Grey's Anatomy. You know what I mean? Like, it starts like this and like. And like, the crimes that this lady committed were fucking bad.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so now we meet Paige.

[A]

This is the plaque that I got

[D]

for being inducted into the Music hall of Fame in Valmire, Illinois.

[B]

Listen. She's been inducted into the Music hall of Fame in Valmire, Illinois.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

She's got a little plaque to prove it.

[A]

Yeah, we got.

[B]

We've been doing a lot of singing on this podcast. Last few episodes have.

[A]

Who else was singing in the glitter

[B]

ball city on Patreon? We had. We had that offer.

[A]

Trophy hunter.

[B]

And she was also a trophy hunter.

[A]

See what happens.

[B]

Days are numbered.

[A]

I refer you to my cold open.

[B]

She's going to be.

[A]

I'm not wishing death on people. I'm just saying if death happens to trophy hunters, but death does happen to trophy.

[B]

At the hands of the trophies. It's like, you like, killer be killed. That elephant looked her in the eye and was like, bitch, it's killer be killed.

[A]

Paige is in a mom group on Facebook. Sarah is also in the group. They met in October of 2024.

[B]

Yeah. And Paige is just saying that, like, the story Sarah. Sarah gave her was that she'd been doing IVF for 10 years. She's so happy to be a mom, but her husband flies for ups. He's not home very often. She spends a lot of time alone. And Paige is like, the mom cheerleader. Like, you're doing it, you're nailing it. Be a part of the group. We love you so much. And then. But once again, Sarah starts to echo Paige's experience. So Paige, her breastfeeding journey is that she had a significant oversupply. So she'd nursed the baby, but she would still have to pump four times a day.

[A]

And she said that's what she was currently going through, that she had this oversupply and. And she was not nursing her baby, but then she was still having to

[D]

pump about four times a day.

[A]

Then she made a post in a breast milk group looking for breast milk donations. It's like, oh, that's not what a mom with an oversupply does.

[B]

Paige is like, that's not really what happens when you have an oversupply. Yeah, I thought you had too much.

[A]

And then Sarah would start lying to two people in front of each other. Like she was. Would be lying to you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then to the next person next to you. Also lying about the lie that she just told.

[B]

Because, like, Paige overhears her telling somebody else a different story about where her

[A]

husband is, knowing full well that Paige knows the first story that was told.

[B]

Or like, is she even trying to keep her livestream, you know?

[A]

But that's where the danger is. Because now she's going to. One day she's going to feel like she has nothing to lose and shit's going to go really, really bad.

[B]

Not if Elizabeth from Rhode island has anything to say about it. She goes, I think she should get

[A]

locked up away for us to relate to. Yeah, she's a danger to society.

[F]

I will never take my foot off her neck.

[A]

I will always know where she is

[D]

and what she's up to.

[B]

I will never take my foot off her neck again.

[A]

I say, good for her. I know Andrea wants her dead. And she's like, I will not stop until she's not breathing anymore.

[B]

She goes, I've been tracking this crazy broader on the Internet for 20 years because the only way to stop her from really harming somebody is by her being treated or put in a box. And if she's not going to get treated, I want to make sure she's in that box.

[A]

She wants her.

[B]

Is that like a death box? I thought she meant a prison cell.

[A]

I took it as Andrea wants her dead.

[B]

She's got that scorpion tail. Could go get her.

[A]

Go get her. She's a fucking liar.

[B]

Oh, my God, girl. We did curious case of the woman dying for attention.

[A]

I mean, wild. Pretty crazy crazy, right?

[B]

I mean, unfortunately, it's like, yeah, we've heard this story before and we will again.

[G]

Yeah.

[A]

And Sarah is doing it right now.

[B]

No question she's doing right now.

[A]

How does she get some guy to sleep with her? My God.

[B]

I know. Well, she did say she did IVF for 10 years. Maybe that part was true.

[A]

Maybe.

[B]

Could be.

[A]

I don't know. There's always one little nugget of truth, fam.

[B]

Don't forget to join us on the Patreon. Over 400 full ad free bonus episodes. So much other stuff Go subscribe to our YouTube. You want to watch this episode? This was a very fun and funny one. It's true. Grandma says podcast. Almost 400,000 subscribers.

[A]

Crazy.

[B]

What are we doing next?

[A]

We are doing the truth and tragedy of Mariah Wilson. It's on Netflix. Cyclist.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

It's very well done. Her friends and family are here. It's a horrible story. A little bit different vibe of what we just covered.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But highly requested and just came out.

[B]

All right, well, thank you for the trailer for that.

[E]

All right.

[B]

And we love you.

[A]

Love you.

[B]

Stop lying and stop watching the Phil show.

[A]

Like, if you're lucky, lying. Stop doing it.

[B]

Yeah, I think that's a fair request.

[A]

You'd think. Paras of the world.

[B]

There was no forced entry into the residence. Could have been a home invasion, a robbery. But the more we started digging into it, it became likely that something else was going on. Collins Strickland was the last person to see Mariah alive. Colin, Is that the first thing? Do you own any firearms? I bought a pistol and I have actually never shot it.

[A]

Nobody could figure out a reason why somebody would want to kill this person.

[B]

Grief is like a big mud puddle.

[D]

I feel a lot of guilt. I told her mom she was okay and in good hands.

[A]

From Colin's phone, we realized he had Mariah in Escristi Wall.

[B]

This was the area not swabbed for DNA. It raises all these questions of, like, do you ever really know anyone? I said the only person I could think of that didn't like it.