514: The Body on the Train (from "Naming the Dead")

Summary

True Crime Obsessed — Episode 514: "The Body on the Train" (Naming the Dead S1E4)

Release Date: July 23, 2026
Podcast Hosts: Patrick Hines & Julia Bezavale
Summary by: True Crime Obsessed

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Episode Overview

This episode offers an emotional and engaging recap of Naming the Dead Season 1, Episode 4: "The Body on the Train." The story follows journalist Marissa Burke’s quest to identify a Black man found dead in a train car in Nebraska in 1961, buried under the label “Unknown Negro.” The hosts—Patrick and Julia—blend humor and deep empathy, unpacking the documentary’s exploration of the forensic and genealogical investigation, the historical context of racism in travel, and the communal drive to reclaim erased identities through the work of the DNA Doe Project.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction to the Case & Marissa’s Mission

• The Unidentified Man: The central narrative is the effort to reclaim the identity of a Black man who died in 1961, found crushed in a refrigerated railway car, buried anonymously in North Platte, Nebraska.
• Marissa’s Emotional Investment: Burke’s personal motivation, rooted in her family’s deep ties to Black civil rights and her history as a news reporter, resonates strongly with the hosts.
  • Julia: "One of her missions in life is to identify this man... as a student of history myself, I totally get this." (02:15)

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2. Forensic Investigation: The Exhumation

• Exhuming the Remains (03:43–08:05): Marissa secures the cooperation of law enforcement and archaeologists to exhume the body, yielding a full skeleton and a non-tarnished metal statue of Jesus.
• DNA Challenges: Dr. Kelly Kincaid from the DNA Doe Project explains the difficulty of extracting viable DNA due to environmental damage from soil, water, and temperature fluctuations.
  • Dr. Kincaid: "It's not really looking good. There are a lot of conditions that lead to a bad sample. And this case kind of hits on all of them." (05:05)
  • Relief comes when a tooth root is found, offering the potential for a DNA breakthrough. (10:34)

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3. The Mysterious Ice Car Death

• How Did the Man End Up in the Ice Car?:
  • Investigation reveals he was crushed under blocks of ice in an ice bunker—an incredibly dangerous place to hide on a train. (11:19–13:07)
  • Patrick: "He was crushed in a railroad refrigerator ice cart. And I'm like, a what?" (11:32)
• Train Expert Consultation: Marissa consults Henry, president of a railway museum, who explains the operation of ice-bunker produce cars and the risks of hiding there. (12:57–14:17)
  • Marissa: "This just doesn't seem like a way somebody would want to travel... it's cold, it's dark, not a lot of space... almost inhumane." (18:07)
• Alternative Hypotheses: Hosts and Marissa discuss: was the man an experienced “transient” (as labeled), or just trying to travel incognito for safety as a Black man during segregation?

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4. Historical & Social Context

• 1961 and Black Mobility: The dangers of public transportation for Black Americans during Jim Crow; railway travel as a possible "safer" choice amid threats of violence on buses. (24:40)
  • Marissa: "1961 was a hard time for African American people to travel... because public transportation either wasn't allowed or it wasn't safe. You just didn't know what you were going to encounter." (24:51)
• Civil Rights Ties: Marissa's great-uncle, Mukasa Papa Ricks, was a close confidant of Martin Luther King Jr. and a key figure in the movement—an inspiration for her investigative zeal. (23:13–23:44)

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5. The DNA Doe Project’s Obstacles and Breakthroughs

• Genealogy Roadblocks: African American ancestry research is uniquely hard due to lack of records before emancipation.
  • Jennifer Randolph (DNA Doe Project): "With African American genealogy, once we are pre emancipation, enslaved people are not known by their name." (21:48)
• Rare Documentation: Discovery of a Louisiana slave bill of sale for the Doe’s ancestor gives a critical starting point. (28:05–28:21)
  • Patrick: "The identities will not be erased on these people's watches. It's never been so clear as this episode. It moves me." (29:10)
• Family Connections: Volunteers link paternal lines to Louisiana, maternal lines to California, and ultimately gather both sides who’d never previously met—turning forensic science into a powerful family reunion. (38:47–40:03)
  • Marissa: "The John Doe, he has brought us together. What a blessing, this show." (39:20)

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6. Major Reveal: The Man Who Found the Body

• Leonard Spencer's Testimony (33:20–36:39):
  • By chance, Marissa discovers that Leonard, interviewed for the documentary, is the very person who discovered the body in 1961.
    • Julia: "This man, Leonard, is the guy who found the dough that Marissa is trying to identify. My jaw is dislocated." (34:49)
  • Leonard recounts finding the man under 5,000 pounds of ice, clarifying the timing and location of the Doe’s last moments—supporting the theory he entered the car in California.

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7. The Emotional Family Reunion & Unfinished Work

• Cross-Generational Impact: Both maternal and paternal relatives join Marissa for the unveiling of the facial reconstruction, sparking emotional recognition and deep connection.
  • Chris (Doe’s relative): "I could feel it in my bones saying, like, you know, help me out. Help me. Nobody has to be alone. It's like an aching inside." (44:46)
• Call to Action: Marissa emphasizes the importance of African Americans participating in DNA and genealogical research to reclaim lost identities, while addressing legitimate privacy concerns.
  • Marissa (from Patrick's DM): "...it will take more people willing to go on the journey with their own family trees to close this case." (45:41)
  • Jennifer Randolph: "You pick and choose how your information is used... It only shows where the DNA profiles overlap and the information is private." (46:29)
• Ongoing Mystery: The man has not yet been identified, but the process has reunified a scattered family and reinvigorated community and scientific determination.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On the significance of the case:
  Marissa: "To see his remains, to see his skull, it's like, that's him. That's the unknown Negro. I'm closer to him than I was before. It gives me hope. It really does." (07:06)

• On historical erasure:
  Patrick: "Once we are pre emancipation, enslaved people are not known by their name. When I tell you I hate that sentence down to my soul..." (21:57)

• On the show’s theme of defiance:
  Patrick: "It's like, it's never been as clear to me... because with these awful... enslavers, they wanted to erase people and not give them an identity... but like, that's not gonna happen with these people." (29:00)

• Family reuniting:
  Julia: "The families live in the same town but don't know each other... They're so happy to be meeting each other and... this woman is looking for this relative." (39:01)

• On the importance of persistence:
  Marissa: "My mom always says nothing beats a failure more than a try." (40:36)

• On the Doe’s possible experience:
  Marissa: "Maybe he wasn't experienced at this. Maybe he didn't know about the ice bunker. Maybe he did think it was a safe place to be." (25:53)

• The central call to action:
  Patrick (quoting Marissa): "It will take more people willing to go on the journey with their own family trees to close this case." (45:41)

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Highlights & Notable Segments

• Emotionally charged exhumation and discovery process — [03:43–08:05]
• Detailed explanation of the ice car mechanics and dangers — [12:57–14:17]
• Breakdown of genealogy challenges for African Americans — [21:41–22:55]
• The jaw-dropping reveal of the original witness, Leonard — [33:20–36:39]
• The heartwarming, unprecedented family reunion — [38:47–40:36]
• Unveiling of the facial reconstruction and profound family reactions — [44:13–45:01]
• Discussion of DNA privacy and why more participation is needed — [45:41–47:19]

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Tone & Style

The hosts maintain their signature blend of humor, empathy, and activism. They add personal reflections, banter about train history and allergies, and keep the storytelling accessible, emotional, and motivating.

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Final Thoughts

True Crime Obsessed’s recap of "The Body on the Train" is a powerful story of remembrance, justice, and the steadfast work required to reclaim forgotten histories. The episode shines a light on systemic challenges—historical, forensic, and personal—that hinder identification. The efforts of Burke, the DNA Doe Project, and the broader community are depicted as acts of resistance and healing, leaving listeners inspired to contribute to similar work.

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Additional Resources

• DNA Doe Project: Ice Car John Doe Case Page – [Project Link, updated case info]
• Marissa Burke’s reporting – [Wave3.com]
• Episode encourages listeners to consider DNA testing to aid ongoing identifications, especially within African American communities.

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Ending note:
Patrick: "We love you, DNA Doe Project." (47:58)
Julia: "Do something good in the world." (48:22)

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This summary covers the core content and emotional beats of the episode. For more details or updates, check the DNA Doe Project's latest announcements and support family history initiatives.

Transcript

[Julia Bezavale]

And Maresa's like, well, maybe that wasn't the case. Maybe he literally was using the train to get from one town to another town for a specific reason.

[Patrick Hines]

Under the radar.

[Julia Bezavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So maybe he wasn't experienced at this. Maybe he didn't know about the ice bunker. Maybe he did think it was a safe place to be.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Right.

[Julia Bezavale]

And, like, as a black man was on one of the trains trying to hide.

[Patrick Hines]

And if that's the case, where did he start and where was he trying to go? This show. Oh, my God,

[Julia Bezavale]

Girl. I took the dog out this morning at 4am when I woke up and

[Patrick Hines]

go back to the joke. This is coming out. I don't know if it's coming out around the Jokenda. We just did the Devil in the Mountains thing where both Patrick and Jokenda have to announce that they wake up earlier than everybody else.

[Julia Bezavale]

He gets up at 5:30. That's sleeping in. But the point is, it was. It is end of June. It was 58 degrees.

[Patrick Hines]

It was like 92 days ago.

[Julia Bezavale]

I know, but I was so cold. I was so. I was so cold.

[Patrick Hines]

Not a hoodie.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Okay.

[Julia Bezavale]

I just forgot.

[Patrick Hines]

Deal with it.

[Julia Bezavale]

I'm like, I'm not going back upstairs.

[Patrick Hines]

No.

[Julia Bezavale]

Hi, Julia Bezavale.

[Patrick Hines]

Hi, Patrick Hines.

[Julia Bezavale]

Oh, my God. What are we. We're talking about your future career today.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, okay. This is our eighth bonus episode. Welcome to a bonus episode drop. This is the show Naming the Dead, Season 1, Episode 4, the Body on the Train. It is on Hulu. Real quick, I just want to say we just dropped like a week ago. Another Naming the Dead episode. Our listeners are like, I just want to give a shout out to the listeners who are loving the series.

[Julia Bezavale]

It's so good.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm getting so many DMs and seeing so many comments from people being like, oh, my God. Thank you for turning us onto the show. Yeah, it's so, so, so good. I just want to shout it out.

[Julia Bezavale]

So it's just like, so nice seeing people do the good work.

[Patrick Hines]

I know, I know. I love it. For a man buried at the Northwest

[Marissa Burke]

Cemetery, his story is lost along with his identity. This all started as one of my first big stories as a news reporter. He was found decades ago on a train cart and buried with a grave marker that reads Unknown Negro. The moment I saw those words, it struck me to my core. I knew this was more than just another news story. I want to know who he really is. That's what I want to know.

[Julia Bezavale]

So we're in Lincoln County, Nebraska. We meet Maressa Burke.

[Patrick Hines]

Love her.

[Julia Bezavale]

She's just a woman on a mission. And like, okay, here's her story. And then I just want to say, like, how I kind of relate to it. We're in a graveyard. It's North Platte Cemetery. This was one of Maressa's first big stories as a news reporter. She tells us, and the man that she's talking about was found decades ago dead in a train car, buried with the grave marker in this cemetery as unknown Negro. And she, like, she sees it and immediately knows. It's like one of her missions in life is to identify this man. And just as like a. As a student of history myself, like somebody who, like, really cares about the people who came before us and did the good work and whatever. I totally get this. I totally understand. Like, we're gonna learn later that Maressa's family has, like, deep ties to the black civil rights community, the black civil rights movement. And it just means so much to her in the way that, like, the gay history stuff means so much to me. So felt like very, very close to this episode.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, this is an excellent episode. The whole show is. But so documents say that the date of death is October 4, 1961. The name is. We're going to say a lot of shitty words here.

[Julia Bezavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

The context is the time. It's 1961. Yes, they said. We don't agree with it. It's just. What? We're just quoting the documents. The name is unidentified transient. And literally everything else says unknown. Like, unknown is listed. We just know that he's a black man.

[Julia Bezavale]

We don't know where he's from. We don't know date of birth. We don't know anything about him.

[Patrick Hines]

And so Marissa has been working on this case for two years.

[Julia Bezavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

She so far thinks the man is about 60 years old. And she tells us that his body was found on a coast to coast freight train.

[Julia Bezavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So the death certificate says transient. So she's wondering, like, okay, well, if he was like riding the rails as a way of life, then the train route is kind of meaningless. Like, it kind of doesn't matter. Right?

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

But in this time, then we just get like, I also love this show because they're just like, oh, my God, we're going to drop something amazing with no prep. Because we learn also after we learn that, that Marissa has convinced the local cops to exhume the remains.

[Julia Bezavale]

And we're watching it happen. And I got to tell you, like, everybody working on this is really invested, like, very Marissa by the graveside, she's super emotional. You can tell the people who are there's like archeologists and the local cops.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Bezavale]

And they are all like, like they're all wearing masks but you can see in their eyes how like they are. It's so sacred to exhume a body. Yeah. It's very moving and a little bit, I'm going to say creepy. Like it's like to exhume a body is just like, like, like it feels just so like real.

[Patrick Hines]

And there's also like a lot of hope here too.

[Julia Bezavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Because Jennifer Randolph, she's the director of cases for the DNA DOE project. She's been in every episode of this. Yeah. And Dr. Kelly Kincaid is back too. And as we know, the DNA Doe project needs DNA to get some clues here. That's right in the name. The DNA DOE project.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Julia Bezavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So Dr. Kelly Kincaid, she's the one who checks the DNA to see how good the sample is and she's like, I gotta tell you Jennifer, it's not really looking good. There are a lot of conditions that lead to a bad sample. And this case kind of hits on all of them. He's been in the ground 60 plus years. Water is a real problem. It's located on the edge of a golf course. Which means there's like these sprinkler systems. Freeze thaws are bad for DNA preservation. And in Nebraska you have hot summers and cold long winters. But we can't know until we try.

[Julia Bezavale]

It depends on how long he was buried. If the soil, if he's in the soil versus a coffin. And when she's. I was watching it again today and I was like, oh God, we don't even know if this man was buried in a coffin or if he's just a body in the dirt.

[Patrick Hines]

And we do as we're seeing them exhume the body just real quick. There is a statue of Jesus that has been buried with him. And I'm like, okay, so a religious person buried him I'm assuming also like

[Julia Bezavale]

this statue of Jesus is made out of some kind of metal that has not tarnished. And it's beautiful. And my mom went to a seminary school when she was like later in life. And there's a statue that is, it was a life size statue that was very similar that was always like so moving to me because it's the way the metal is, is bent and the way that like the holding of the head. It's a very stunning sort of like visual of this thing. And for it to be the first thing they Find when they're digging up this body is very emotional, very spiritual. It was. It was. Yeah, very. It was. It was crazy to see.

[Patrick Hines]

And it's so incredible because Marissa is here watching this, and she's feeling everything. And she gasps.

[Julia Bezavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And you see her gasp. And she's, like, you know, holding her face, and it's just to watch it. Like, she's watching them collect these bones, and it's very, very moving because also,

[Julia Bezavale]

the first thing they find is a piece of casket. So I was like, oh, thank go. Okay. Thank God. Like, they buried him in a casket. Like, that's one strike taken away.

[Patrick Hines]

Right, right, right, right. And Marissa says to see his remains,

[Marissa Burke]

to see his skull. It's like, that's him. That's the unknown Negro. I'm closer to him than I was before. It gives me hope. It really does.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm closer to him than I was before. It gives me hope. It really does. It's a very beautiful moment.

[Julia Bezavale]

It's really beautiful. And, like, once again with the human, like, it's jarring to see that it's

[Patrick Hines]

done better than I've seen it in other shows, series and docs, you know,

[Julia Bezavale]

and there's no delicate way to do it, especially when you don't know how the body has been buried. Yeah, they're kind of just like. Because they're using a. I don't know what. I don't know what these boy things are called, but it's like a. Like a forklift or something. I'm an excavator. They stop using that, and they're Then, like. Then they're digging with their hands. Well, and like, what an intimate thing to actually be like digging with your hands down to somebody's coughing.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, so they bring his remains to the lab at this chapel, and Dr. Kelly Kincaid from the DNA DOE project, she. It's like, almost a full skeleton. It's almost a complete skeleton, which is a big win number one. But Dr. Kelly goes, way to go, Nebraska soil. All of her, like, trepidation or everything, where she was like, I don't know. It is all out the window. Nebraska soil was great.

[Julia Bezavale]

The only thing I was thinking in that moment was, like, Dr. Kelly, could you say, like, way to go, Nebraska excavation team?

[Patrick Hines]

Yes, that's true.

[Julia Bezavale]

All of these people have a. Assembled this man's, like, remains. They've assembled, like, a full skeleton. They've been out there digging, like, they. They dug up a body today. And she's thinking, the soil, which. I get it. She's a Scientist.

[Patrick Hines]

I understand the soil could have had all of those factors.

[Julia Bezavale]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Making it like so that the amazing team didn't really have much to pull.

[Julia Bezavale]

No, no, it's true. And Marisa tells us that there was no autopsy performed but we see that this man has a broken rib on the right side and a broken rib on the left side but no way to tell how he died.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Julia Bezavale]

So like obviously those aren't life threatening injuries in most cases. So it's like what happened to this guy? Girl Haya is back. Look, we have hi in our house. We have for a very long time now it's kids vitamins and most kids vitamins are candy. Not Haya.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Back in the day it was just like lots of sugar and additives and dyes. But no, not anymore.

[Julia Bezavale]

No. And Daisy wakes up. It's the first thing she takes every single day. She absolutely loves it. We don't even have to ask her to do it. She's obsessed.

[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Bezavale]

She loves that.

[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Bezavale]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Bezavale]

Let me tell you, Daisy loves that too. I wasn't sure at first if it was going to be her thing, but yep, we mix it with water every single morning.

[Patrick Hines]

So easy.

[Julia Bezavale]

And she loves it.

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[Julia Bezavale]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Bezavale]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Bezavale]

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Oh,

[Julia Bezavale]

just like as we're ending this scene like because Dr. Kelly is on like a facetime with the group in the room and the group in the room is like they're so excited because like. Cause Dr. Kelly's like wait, like there's a tooth with a Root. And the root is what they need. And, like, the team on this side is like, oh, my God. Like, we're so excited to, like, everyone involved in this series. Like, all of the medical experts they get are all, like, they just want it to work. They just, like, everyone's so all in.

[Patrick Hines]

And this was so close to not working.

[Julia Bezavale]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

And now they got the good news.

[Julia Bezavale]

They needed so many factors against it.

[Patrick Hines]

We can, like, keep working. We can keep the work going. So Sergeant Meyer finds a news article from November 3, 1961, which is two days after our John Doe's burial. And it has the cause of death. Yes, in 1961 language, it says, dead man.

[Marissa Burke]

Still not identified. A Negro man found crushed in a railroad refrigerator. Ice car was found here Tuesday morning by railroad workers cleaning out the cars. Crushed in an ice car.

[Patrick Hines]

He was crushed in a railroad refrigerator ice cart. And I'm like, a what?

[Julia Bezavale]

I know. I didn't know what this was either.

[Patrick Hines]

So Sergeant Meyer's like, okay, this feels off. Because if he. If this man was used to riding trains, then he for sure would know that this is a really dangerous place to be.

[Julia Bezavale]

So let me, dear listener and viewer, explain to you what this is because, like, they. They tell us later, but just so you can understand, like, these ice cars are used to cool the trains. Cause these trains carry produce. And so it's hard to understand in our 2026 brains, but basically, these are like silos in a train car that are empty until a train pulls up to this machine that, like, a lever is pulled and 5,000 pounds of ice

[Patrick Hines]

are dropped in, like, huge, huge ice blocks are dropped through these hatches into these, like, bunker compartments. And this was done regularly.

[Julia Bezavale]

Right. And so what the sergeant here is saying is that, like, if he was riding the rails, all the. He would have known that an empty ice silo would be a very dangerous place for somebody to ride or sleep or be. Because sooner or later, like, without warning, they're going to stop and it's going to be full of £5,000 of ice.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. And so Marissa's like, I need eyes on the ice car. I need to know exactly what this is, what this looks like, so she can try to figure out what happened. Yeah, she meets Henry, Henry Baum, the president of the Niles Canyon Railway Museum, and he's going to explain it all to us.

[Julia Bezavale]

Can we just, like, take a moment for the fact that there is a railway museum and that he's the president of it? He's the president. I love people who love Weird shit and preserve it.

[Patrick Hines]

This is what I mean. I love enthusiasts.

[Julia Bezavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

I love people. We were just talking about this at the top of their game, found a thing they love and do it well. The more niche the better.

[Julia Bezavale]

A railway museum like there in New York City there is a, like a, a transit museum which is like. Sounds so boring. But then you go and you see the like the subway cars from like the 1940s which by the way, once a year they still run on the tracks and you can ride them. And I did once.

[Patrick Hines]

Did I tell you that was, that's what my grandf did after he was, we were just, we were talking about

[Julia Bezavale]

stop being Nazi after.

[Patrick Hines]

No, he never was. He was forced into Mussolini's army. I just told the story and then like showed everyone in Utah how to, how to cook. Oh yeah, he was a cooperative. But after that when.

[Julia Bezavale]

Not that your food's bad, it's that you don't know how to cook it. You think?

[Patrick Hines]

I forget he was top tier. But anyway, he was a conductor on the, in the New York City mta. That's why, that's like what he did for a very, very long time. So like in like the 50s.

[Julia Bezavale]

And those old railway cars are old and fancy. Like they're like, they're nice.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. It's not what it is today.

[Julia Bezavale]

It's not what it is today.

[Patrick Hines]

No. It was like very cool. Anyway, but I freaking love these two because Marissa's like, I have so many questions, I hope you can answer them. And Henry's like, well I'll try, I'll do my best. So he explains ice cars were used

[Julia Bezavale]

to keep the produce grown on the west coast fresh on the multi day journey to the cities of the East.

[Marissa Burke]

Was there ever a lock on it

[Julia Bezavale]

or anything like that? Well, they would put a lock on it so people didn't get in and help themselves to a box of cucumbers.

[Patrick Hines]

So you know, people didn't get in and help themselves do a box of cucumbers. Get these two a show. Get these two a show.

[Julia Bezavale]

Do you know that cucumbers are my least favorite vegetable? I hate.

[Patrick Hines]

Why?

[Julia Bezavale]

I don't know. I can't explain it because I love pickles, but I hate cucumbers. Like the.

[Patrick Hines]

A raw cucumber, you know that a pickle is a cucumber.

[Julia Bezavale]

That's what I mean. Like I love a pickle but a raw cucumber because I'm on one of those cilantro people too. I get the specialty parking at Chipotle for people with The. With, like, the. The cilantro thing that you.

[Patrick Hines]

You can't eat it because it tastes like specialty parking.

[Julia Bezavale]

It's a joke. It's a joke. But they would have, like, reserved parking for, like, those of us who are, like, have such sad lives that we don't like the taste of cilantro.

[Patrick Hines]

Can't even be near cilantro. Like, it's a peanut allergy on a plane.

[Julia Bezavale]

Exactly. That had happened to me twice in a row. Like, everyone, like, was forced to throw their nuts away. It was wild.

[Patrick Hines]

Why are we serving nuts on a plane?

[Julia Bezavale]

Like, the most, like, the most controlled environment where like. Like, good luck if you got an allergy.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, I don't understand. I think. Didn't they stop doing it? But it feels like, like, personal. I know we're gonna serve nuts in this, like, closed tin can. And if you have a nut allergy, good luck to you.

[Julia Bezavale]

We had people over the other night. We had a bowl of mixed nuts out, and one of my. Like, one of the. Like, a friend of a friend was looking in it. He's like, oh, I can't have anything. I just can't have the cashews. My. My throat will swell. I'm like, we're throwing all the nuts away in this house.

[Patrick Hines]

Wasn't, like, touching it with his hands.

[Julia Bezavale]

No, no, no, no.

[Patrick Hines]

He was, like, peering into it to

[Julia Bezavale]

see if there was cashews. And I made. We had 13 people. Was for our Tony's party. I made everybody get up and wash their hands, and I threw away all the. And nuts.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Bezavale]

I'm keeping people alive.

[Patrick Hines]

Also, here's my thing. People with allergies like this. My question is. And it's also like, I feel bad about it. Your whole life has to be like, are you gonna have cashews there?

[Julia Bezavale]

Right. Don't be nice about it.

[Patrick Hines]

And it's kind of. I'm so sorry. Like, on the person, I think to be like, hey, heads up. Thank you for this invite.

[Julia Bezavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

I could die. If you serve a cashew, could you please totally hold it on the cashews for one night?

[Julia Bezavale]

Could you cool it on the cashews, Heinz?

[Patrick Hines]

And I know that that's like, a miserable way to live, to be hyper vigilant about it.

[Julia Bezavale]

Yeah, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

But it's kind of on the person to say it instead of you polling people about what their allergies are.

[Julia Bezavale]

Then I was like, we need EpiPens at my house. Like, we have gatherings with some. A lot of times people I don't know, like, friends bring Friends or whatever. I don't know what people. What people need. We need EpiPens.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, the person needs to carry the EpiPen.

[Julia Bezavale]

I know, but what if. What if they just used it last week and they didn't re up? We need, like, a.

[Patrick Hines]

Can't go out without telling people what your allergy is. Isn't that part of the gig? It's unfortunate. I'm not saying it flippantly.

[Julia Bezavale]

Way to live.

[Patrick Hines]

I know it's a mess, but I feel like.

[Julia Bezavale]

Can you see me running through a room throwing people and drinks out of the way with an epip? Had to stick the guy in the neck. Just like saving the day, isn't it?

[Patrick Hines]

Right in the thigh.

[Julia Bezavale]

Well, that's the other thing. I don't even know where to stick the guy.

[Patrick Hines]

Got the person I know with the affliction, for lack of a better term, has to be telling people and communicating. Use your words, Ben.

[Julia Bezavale]

What? Do I stick you? If I got a stick yet with an EpiPen, where does it go? Does it go in your neck?

[Patrick Hines]

Don't be like, oh, are there cashews here? I feel my itchy throat, like, no, you got to get ahead of it.

[Julia Bezavale]

You got the EpiPen, the guy's down, you go, you stab the guy in the wrong place, and he dies anyway. You did the best you could.

[Patrick Hines]

I think everyone needs to communicate better.

[Julia Bezavale]

I couldn't. Couldn't agree more.

[Patrick Hines]

But anyway, these two are having fun, getting to know each other. And so we learn that, you know, the man's body, our Jon Joe, was found in one of these ice bunkers, and the man was crushed by ice. So now we're on top of the car. They're showing us how this mechanism works. It is terrifying. The ice is heavy and heavy.

[Julia Bezavale]

It's also like, Marisa goes into the ice shade.

[Patrick Hines]

It looks so cool, she does. Hopping down so effortlessly. It's like one move totally.

[Julia Bezavale]

But, like, she keeps her head above ground because that shit is. Is scary. Like, it. Like, it looks like the ice is gonna fall on you any second.

[Patrick Hines]

And so Marissa's like, this just doesn't

[Marissa Burke]

seem like a way somebody would want to travel. I mean, it's cold, it's dark, not a lot of space. It's just almost inhumane. I think what's getting me the most is I don't think you want it to be in there.

[Patrick Hines]

She says it's almost inhumane. It's meant for ice, right?

[Julia Bezavale]

And I think the idea. And we never get to the bottom of this, but, like, the idea was, was this man killed and put there. He in there and died because the ice fell on him.

[Patrick Hines]

As Marissa is asking all of these questions, Henry is casually chilling on the top of this train car.

[Julia Bezavale]

You can't. You have to picture they're on a train car, like resting on his, on

[Patrick Hines]

his arm and his elbow lay full laying.

[Julia Bezavale]

The guy's wearing overalls. They're. They're 30ft in the air having a cash conversation.

[Patrick Hines]

And Marissa's like on her knees, you know, like kind of peering in. And he's just laying there like, I don't know. What are we going to do about

[Julia Bezavale]

this dream day, though? Like, these train cars are his. He built a whole museum around it. He got himself elected president. And today there's a lady here who wants to know.

[Patrick Hines]

And Marissa is so cool and so invested that Henry is super invested.

[Julia Bezavale]

Totally.

[Patrick Hines]

And she's making him feel so comfortable. He's just lounging. Get these to a show,

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

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[Julia Bezavale]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Bezavale]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Bezavale]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Bezavale]

It's really good and it works just as effectively.

[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Bezavale]

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[Julia Bezavale]

And by the way, I want to say Jennifer has put together a weekend intensive. It's in Texas. They are all outside, probably somewhere on her property under a tent.

[Patrick Hines]

Like 13 of them in the out of doors, 13 volunteers on their computers.

[Julia Bezavale]

One of these days we're going to see you in there. One of these days there's GP with the top knot in the pencils.

[Patrick Hines]

They're going to sort this shit out. And I'm like, I love the show so much. I know, give me a thousand more episodes. So Dr. Kelly has successfully extracted the DNA.

[Julia Bezavale]

Why? That wasn't like a four minute, like, dun, dun, dun, like, will there be enough DNA to use? We just. They don't even meant.

[Patrick Hines]

There just is because these people are awesome.

[Julia Bezavale]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Dr. Kelly's like, Move over. Yeah, we got my beer. I got this.

[Julia Bezavale]

We got it.

[Patrick Hines]

So now it's in the database and there are thousands of matches, but even the closest matches are distant cousins. So they're like, okay. So they're using everything they can. We're going through public records and obituaries and newspapers. However, this man is black. Specifically African American.

[Julia Bezavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And this makes it difficult only because the quote from Jennifer, who like runs this show, she says with African American

[Marissa Burke]

genealogy, once we are pre emancipation, enslaved people are not known by their name.

[Patrick Hines]

Once we are pre emancipation, enslaved people are not known by their name. When I tell you I hate that sentence down down to my soul, I

[Julia Bezavale]

mean, and that is like, what is that? 1886. You know what I mean? Like, that is not that long ago.

[Patrick Hines]

So we're looking at the 1860 US federal census. This is for context. This is three years before the Emancipation Proclamation and five years before the 13th Amendment, which abolished slavery. So we're definitely pre emancipation.

[Julia Bezavale]

And that's the thing with this genealogy is like oftentimes you have to go back that far or farther.

[Patrick Hines]

So they find these words are super horrible, but they find what is called a slave schedule. And it doesn't include their name or any other information. It's just like their, it's just like their stats, like age. It's so horrifying. And like, we need a name because that is really important. The DNA is super important, obviously. But like we need to start building our tree, right? We need the name of this person.

[Julia Bezavale]

So we, we take a quick break from this right here to find out about Marissa's like deep family ties to the Civil Rights movement.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh my God.

[Julia Bezavale]

Because we learned her Family's ties to the movement date back to when they think this doe died.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julia Bezavale]

So then she says to me, he's great uncle papa to the world Mukasa Papa Ricks.

[Marissa Burke]

Growing up, I always enjoyed my uncle coming into town and hearing the stories of Martin Luther King Jr. Being there and them planning the civil rights movement.

[Julia Bezavale]

We're seeing all of these images of this man, like, marching with Dr. Martin Luther King.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julia Bezavale]

By his side, like, very, very close

[Patrick Hines]

to him, I gotta tell you. So he's the. That a lot of people credit with popularizing the phrase black power. I took a course at fordham called the 60s. I learned about him.

[Julia Bezavale]

Wow.

[Patrick Hines]

And I, I'll tell you more later. I dmed with Marissa about this. I reached out to her because I just think she's so incredible. And I knew I could be misremembering, but I was like, I know who that. I know that name. And when I looked into more about what he did, like he organized voter registration marches, sit ins, like, you name it, he was right there. And like, I'm thinking when I was so familiar and I was like, where do I know that my memory is that it? At this class called in this class called the 60s because the professor was like super in on that, was on every list. Was like his house was bugged. Like he was, he was in the thick of it too. But if my memory is wrong, then I'm wrong. But I, I knew about this guy. And I'm telling you, I think it was that course. Why wouldn't it be?

[Julia Bezavale]

No, of course it has to be.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. So anyway, this guy's like the real deal. And Marissa is like, she has ties

[Julia Bezavale]

because you can tell because like, like you see pictures of like civil rights marches with Martin Luther King and there's thousands of people this man is right next to he standing shoulder to shoulder.

[Patrick Hines]

So Marissa is going to tell us like, what was going on historically at the time of this man's death in 1961.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And she's told all of the stuff that we know about, but like something kind of deeper.

[Marissa Burke]

She goes, 1961 was a hard time for African American people to travel public transportation, like a bus or even hitchhiking because you didn't know, you just didn't know what you were going to encounter

[Patrick Hines]

because public transportation either wasn't allowed or it wasn't safe. And she says, you just didn't know what you were going to encounter. So when people were like protesting segregation on the interstate bus routes, they were just met. They were met with violence, like everything else.

[Julia Bezavale]

But in, like, serious violence, like, we see them, like, bombing buses full of people. Like, I mean, really serious violence.

[Patrick Hines]

And so Mahes is saying the train might have actually been the safest way to travel across the country.

[Julia Bezavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And just because the death certificate says he was a, quote, transient, doesn't mean.

[Julia Bezavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

This is 1961 in Nebraska.

[Julia Bezavale]

And when they use the word, quote transient, we're talking about people who, like, lived on the trains. Like, that was their whole way of life. And Maresa's like, well, maybe that wasn't the case. Maybe he literally was using the train to get from one town to another town for a specific reason.

[Patrick Hines]

Under the radar.

[Julia Bezavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So maybe he wasn't experienced at this. Maybe he didn't know about the ice bunker. Maybe he did think it was a safe place to be.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Right.

[Julia Bezavale]

And, like, as a black man was on one of the trains, trying to hide.

[Patrick Hines]

And if that's the case, where did he start and where was he trying to go? This show. Oh, my God.

[Julia Bezavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So the train route, we learn. I think I've been saying route and route. I'm going back and forth. It's database. Database.

[Julia Bezavale]

Yeah. Gala. Gala. We've done this.

[Patrick Hines]

I can't commit.

[Julia Bezavale]

I know. No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[Patrick Hines]

So the train route started in California, went across the country to the east coast, then returned empty back across the country, heading west.

[Julia Bezavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And we get this on screen image, which is kind of crazy because the man's body, exactly halfway through the train's trip back to California, it had delivered the precious cucumbers.

[Julia Bezavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

On the East Coast. And it's almost exactly halfway. Like, we see the dot on the map. It's crazy.

[Julia Bezavale]

Yes. And so she's saying, like, because in the beginning, she was like, I want to follow the tracks to figure out where it was going. But then maybe they don't mean anything. But now she's like, well, so maybe they actually do mean something.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. So now we're at day two of the research with the the DNA DOE project, and they figure out someone on

[Julia Bezavale]

the doe's father's side has been uploading some family records.

[Marissa Burke]

She has a blog, a family history blog.

[Julia Bezavale]

Can you send me the link?

[Patrick Hines]

Sure.

[Marissa Burke]

Looks like she's done a lot of digging in local resources.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Right.

[Julia Bezavale]

We have some original documents here, including

[Patrick Hines]

some information on possible enslavers. This is a gold mine. Someone from our John Doe's father side is actively researching their own genealogy and uploading documents and family history to a blog. This is her Own blog. This is not a database. This is her own blog, own research that she just happens to be posting online of her own accord, which is

[Julia Bezavale]

weird because we never meet this person.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Julia Bezavale]

You know, but, like, this information is invaluable.

[Patrick Hines]

She's done a lot of digging. She's found a lot of stuff. They call her blog a gold mine.

[Julia Bezavale]

I mean, and, like, just to say what's there, because they tell us we have to talk about it, there's information about possible enslavers. They find a bill of sale for one of the ancestors, meaning, like, one of the human enslaved ancestors. Like, it's horrifying.

[Patrick Hines]

And this bill of sale, as horrifying as it is, is important because this is a bill of sale for one of her ancestors in Louisiana.

[Julia Bezavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And we're told the quote is, he was sold from one enslaver to another in 1833. The Doe Project is like, this is better than anything we had.

[Julia Bezavale]

Right. Because it gives them a starting point. So the place is St. Landry parish in Louisiana. And they. We learned there were over 11,000 people enslaved there. It was a hub for Louisiana cotton production. And many of the enslaved families may have remained there after emancipation.

[Patrick Hines]

Can I just say something about how much I love the show and why I think I do?

[Julia Bezavale]

Sure.

[Patrick Hines]

So much of it is about Defiance.

[Julia Bezavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. So it's like, it's never been as clear to me as it is in this episode, because with these awful, like, colonizers and enslavers, they wanted to erase people and not give them an identity and erase their identity. But, like, that's not gonna happen with these people. We're not letting that happen. These people are not letting it happen.

[Julia Bezavale]

Despite the fact that the way the enslavers, they literally did it so that something like this would not be possible, but we're doing it anyway.

[Patrick Hines]

And, like, I think that there's always.

[Julia Bezavale]

I mean, them. I don't mean.

[Patrick Hines]

Right, right, right. But, like, yeah, it's just the identities will not be erased on these people's watches. And I think there's always a layer of that in this series, but it's never been so clear as this episode. And it's just, like, it moves me.

[Julia Bezavale]

And part of. I think also why this show is so amazing is because all of the people we meet are so. It's their singular mission.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Bezavale]

Like, they're so driven to do it. Like, it doesn't matter how long it takes Jennifer and her team to do this. Like, going to do it,

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

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[Julia Bezavale]

Rula is back this is all about that. Convenient in network online therapy.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. It's hard. Finding a good therapist is you work well with, you know, and so Rula does things differently. They partner with over 100 insurance plans and the average copay is just $15 a session.

[Julia Bezavale]

And it's true end to end care. So really is committed to supporting you and staying with you every step of the way on your mental health journey. So we're talking starting with finding the right therapist in the first place, helping you schedule appointments, monitoring your progress. Rula is there to help. Those are like the three hardest things.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And I just quick reminder, these are all licensed professionals.

[Julia Bezavale]

Yes, of course.

[Patrick Hines]

And the price makes sense.

[Julia Bezavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And it's also easy to switch.

[Julia Bezavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

If. So if you're not vibing with someone or whatever and you want to kind of shop around, it's very easy to do.

[Julia Bezavale]

I remember finding my in person therapist taking like months and months. Rula makes it so easy.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And like it sounds cheesy, but you're worth it. You should try someone you Girl.

[Julia Bezavale]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Bezavale]

That's R U L A.com TCO.

[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Bezavale]

Yes, girl. The absorption company is back. And look, this week I want to talk to you about the WLP1. So the WLP1 is a daily weight management solution, and the WLP1 supports weight management with ingredients clinically proven to increase natural GLP1 by 321%.

[Patrick Hines]

That is crazy. It's a lot easy.

[Julia Bezavale]

I know. I started taking it a little while back to support the GLP ones I'm already on. And I got to say, like, I noticed a bit of a difference. Difference?

[Patrick Hines]

Well, here's the deal. They're called the Absorption Company, right?

[Julia Bezavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So the biggest problem with supplements isn't what's in them, it's whether your body absorbs them at all.

[Julia Bezavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So, like, most of the things you might be spending money on actually have really low absorption rates. So they're kind of not doing much of anything.

[Julia Bezavale]

You're just taking them for nothing.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. So the absorption company is focused on solving that exact problem. They have pharmaceutical grade absorption technology designed to help nutrients actually work.

[Julia Bezavale]

Yes. So this WLP one, the whole point of it is that it supports thermogenesis, which is calories burned at rest. Like when you're sitting watching housewives.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, great. You know, look, you can get pretty ramped up.

[Julia Bezavale]

It's, you know, you're.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

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[Patrick Hines]

Depending on what episode you're watching.

[Julia Bezavale]

That's true. But it also regulates appetite and cravings. It makes you feel full longer. And clinical studies conducted show that taking WLP1 consistently has led up to nine pounds of weight loss in just four weeks.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And their whole thing is like having sustainable weight management that is much more about regulating cravings and metabolism and not just restricting every single thing you eat, which is exhausting and isn't working.

[Julia Bezavale]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Bezavale]

That's absorb more.com and under code TCO at checkout to get 35% off your first order.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm totally absorbing.

[Julia Bezavale]

You are absorbing.

[Patrick Hines]

So we're going to look into this area of Louisiana and the surrounding areas because maybe people stayed there after being emancipated. That is the hope. And, and guess what? Multiple matches from the John Doe's father's side live in one small area. So there's a very, very, very good chance that this is where the man's father came from. Yes, at the very, very least.

[Julia Bezavale]

So Marissa is like desperately trying to figure out where the doe may have gotten on the train when it stopped for fresh ice. And she learns. This is incredible. She's discovered there's someone in town who worked at the North Platte rail yard in the 60s cleaning out the ice cars on their return turn trip from the east coast. Cleaning out the ice cars. Remember this man, the doe was found in an ice car in north platte in the 60s.

[Patrick Hines]

And specifically he was, his name is Leonard Spencer. Specifically cleaning the ice cars on their way back from the east coast.

[Julia Bezavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So a local railway enthusiast, I love these people named Bob is gonna introduce Marissa to Leonard. And I'm like, see what happens when you're an enthusiast.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

It is.

[Patrick Hines]

See what can happen.

[Julia Bezavale]

And by the way, when we meet Leonard, Leonard also loved his job so much.

[Patrick Hines]

He knows the d. He started November 9, 1951. And the date he retired, June 30, 1990.

[Julia Bezavale]

Like unbelievable. I'm also like, you couldn't have done that last year to make it an even round. What's that like 40 straight years? He did 39.

[Patrick Hines]

Good for him. He's exhausted.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

He says to Marissa, oh, I saw a lot of people riding the rails, especially black men, hiding. And asking him, like, what town are we in? And he says, most of the time, they're just trying to get to Chicago. These men in his. In Leonard's experience.

[Julia Bezavale]

But then he drops the bombshell.

[Marissa Burke]

Would you have ever saw somebody trying to be in the ice bunker?

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Well, not until I run across the body at the bottom of a tank. Ice tank. Under about £5,000 of ice.

[Marissa Burke]

Wait a minute. You were the guy that found the body in the ice bunker?

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yeah, after I cleaned the ice out. That's when I found him. When I seen him.

[Julia Bezavale]

Only one time did I come across a body at the bottom of a tank under about £5,000 of ice. My notes say, what for? About five lines.

[Patrick Hines]

Mine just have letters. Letters and numbers.

[Julia Bezavale]

This man, Leonard, is the guy who found the dough that Marissa is trying to identify.

[Patrick Hines]

My jaw is dislocated.

[Julia Bezavale]

Me, too. And Maresa too. I thought. Now I watched it. I was saying I watched it again today. I'm like, was this a setup? Did they know going into this? I don't think Marissa knew.

[Patrick Hines]

Even Bob the Enthusiast is stunned.

[Julia Bezavale]

The Enthusiast is enthusiastic. This is the best day of everybody's life.

[Patrick Hines]

Now, I am a realist.

[Julia Bezavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay. Could this all be TV magic?

[Julia Bezavale]

I don't know. Marissa looks, like, really shocked.

[Patrick Hines]

She does. If it is.

[Julia Bezavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

I don't care.

[Julia Bezavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Because it got the job done. It did what they wanted it to do. At least for me and for you.

[Julia Bezavale]

It seems four lines of A before the T. And what?

[Patrick Hines]

Like, I understand if they told me it was all. Or we knew and didn't tell Marissa or whatever. Because how do you get this guy Production at least had to know.

[Julia Bezavale]

Yeah. Somebody somewhere probably knew.

[Patrick Hines]

I get it.

[Julia Bezavale]

But is there out there Me either this guy's still alive and he's the guy that found the. But this is. This isn't. This is insane.

[Patrick Hines]

It got one hell of a gasp out of me. And that's all they wanted.

[Julia Bezavale]

Gay gasp.

[Patrick Hines]

Naming the dead. You got it. You got it, you got it. Which doesn't take much for the show. For me, I am crying the entire time I'm watching this same Mike is walking by my office going, are you okay? And I'm like, but Marissa's doing it.

[Julia Bezavale]

I know, but we learned. So. So Marissa's got a bunch of questions for Leonard. Leonard. She wants to know, like, what Leonard saw when he saw the body. He said he basically saw the guy from the chest down. He says Whether he was already dead when he was put in there or the ice killed, I don't know.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, he. What is important is that he says

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

whether he was already dead or the ice killed him and how long he'd been there, I don't know. Because. Had to be in there before they put the ice in while it was empty. Because he was in there after I got the ice off of him.

[Patrick Hines]

He had to be in there before they put the ice in while it was empty because there wouldn't be any room otherwise.

[Julia Bezavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

And the man was found completely under all of the thousands of pounds of ice.

[Julia Bezavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So that means he had to be there before any ice was put in the bunker.

[Julia Bezavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

The bunker had to be empty when he was in there. Which means that it was at the very start of the train's journey in California.

[Julia Bezavale]

Right, so. Meaning that when. When they found the body, he'd probably been dead for a long time.

[Patrick Hines]

And everything Marissa's going through newspaper clippings, and she's like, wait a second. Everything she thought she knew about the train's journey is not accurate.

[Julia Bezavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Because the train was not going east right away. We thought it was like, start at the west, go to east.

[Julia Bezavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

That's not what happened. It started. It didn't go straight across the. It was heading south down California before going east.

[Julia Bezavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

This changes a lot.

[Julia Bezavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So the DNA DOE project is now looking into Louisiana, which is 2,000 miles away from California.

[Julia Bezavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Because they think the John Doe's family stayed there after they were emancipated.

[Julia Bezavale]

The dad's side.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. So Janelle Daniels is here. She's a volunteer. She's like, no problem. This is easy for me because I'm awesome. All we need to do is find a migration pattern that links us from Louisiana to California. And I'm like, cool, Janelle, I'm in. Let's go.

[Julia Bezavale]

Me too. I had to watch this, like, three times to sort of try to understand what was happening here.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, it's nothing.

[Julia Bezavale]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

All we need to do is find a migration pattern. Janelle, I'm with you.

[Julia Bezavale]

Just in case you're, like, unclear what's happening. We found the dad's family in Louisiana.

[Patrick Hines]

The John Doe's dad's family.

[Julia Bezavale]

Yes. But we learned that the DOE got on the train in California. Why Was he there 2,000 miles away? Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

So I just also want to hit home. This is painstaking work.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

These people are no strangers to the work. We know that. But I want them to know that we know. Yeah.

[Julia Bezavale]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

That it's painstaking work. And I'm like never ever gonna not let them know that.

[Julia Bezavale]

No. Yeah. We're talking four in the morning, hair on the top, knot, pencils, everything.

[Patrick Hines]

And they're all volunteers.

[Julia Bezavale]

All volunteers.

[Patrick Hines]

So they find someone in California.

[Julia Bezavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Who is from the man's mother's side. We already have the doe's father's side. Now this could be a major breakthrough. We can now connect the two sides. What?

[Julia Bezavale]

And Jennifer is on the ground in California. She's in her car. She's like, well, we've never done this before, but sometimes when you get a really tough case, you gotta think outside the box.

[Patrick Hines]

And guess what?

[Marissa Burke]

It turns out that this mother's side DNA.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Right.

[Marissa Burke]

Relative actually lives in the same area that the family on the paternal side of our Doe lives. You know you can't make this up, right? Just a total surprise.

[Julia Bezavale]

The families live in the same town but don't know each other.

[Patrick Hines]

Jennifer's like, I cannot tell. We have never ever done this. You cannot make it up. This is a really big opportunity for everyone.

[Julia Bezavale]

Like, so Jennifer's gonna bring them together because the idea is we've gotta figure out how they got from Louisiana to California. We're gonna bring both sides of the family together who've never met each other before. And we're just gonna sit around and tell stories.

[Patrick Hines]

And we see everyone, they're saying, the John Doe, he has brought us together. What a blessing, this show. I swear to God.

[Julia Bezavale]

I know because we're at this big family reunion and everyone. They're meeting each other for the first time, but they're so happy to be meeting each other and like getting to the. But they're so happy that this woman is looking for this.

[Patrick Hines]

This relative and like sharing with each other. They're talking about who met who and when they met and where they met and birthdays and where they moved and when. And talking about extended families. And they realize they're. There's a whole faction of people that they don't know about that they're learning through each other.

[Julia Bezavale]

And there's like a whole. They're basically saying there's a whole family, like a whole generation of the intermingling of our families that is missing that

[Patrick Hines]

neither side really knows about. But be. Through their stories, they're learning that it exists in the first place.

[Julia Bezavale]

Like, it's incredible because we've got the dad's side in Louisiana, the mom side in California. We kind of figure out how the family got from Texas to California. But we don't really know where the mom's side of the family was before that.

[Patrick Hines]

And now this is really. She's been shining the whole time.

[Julia Bezavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

But she says a couple of things

[Marissa Burke]

I'm good at is reaching people and connecting with audiences. So I think it's time for me to do another news story and get the word out.

[Patrick Hines]

She's gonna get a news story out on this. And she says, my mom always says nothing beats a failure more than a try. I swear to God, I'm gonna lose my shit, make 10,000 more episodes of

[Julia Bezavale]

this program and give Marissa her own show.

[Patrick Hines]

By the way, my mom always says nothing beats a failure than a try.

[Julia Bezavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Are you kidding?

[Julia Bezavale]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

We got the enthusiasts, we got the families coming together. I can't stand it.

[Julia Bezavale]

But we start to narrow it down that, like, the dad's side moved from Louisiana to Beaumont, Texas. The mom's side lived in Texas before she went to California. So they're thinking that the parents must have met in Texas at some point.

[Patrick Hines]

And so Marissa's like, okay. Like, she's trying to put herself in Roseville, California, in 1961. Was this guy working? Was he hanging out? She's like, I don't know. Like, did he hop on that train to head home? Which broke my heart.

[Julia Bezavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And she's like, and then he didn't know. And then, like, the. The bunker was iced. And I'm like, it's so heartbreaking for a million reasons, but especially, like, because this was supposed to be the safer way to travel.

[Julia Bezavale]

Well, and that's the whole thing, because Marissa is saying, like, I originally thought he was traveling thousands of miles to see his family across the country, but what if he was just in Northern California trying to go across couple towns south because that's the way this train was going. And he had to do it this way because he couldn't take the bus because taking the bus was fucking dangerous.

[Patrick Hines]

And according to our enthusiast of the president of the Railroad Society or whatever, like, he was like, that would happen all the time. I was always meeting black men who were like, where am I? Exactly. I need to get here.

[Julia Bezavale]

Yes, yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So that is definitely a major, major, major possibility.

[Julia Bezavale]

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[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, we've talked about this lot on this little show of ours.

[Julia Bezavale]

When they started with us, I really had a thought that I had a friend in college whose dad died unexpectedly. She had three younger sisters, and the mom didn't know that the dad had life insurance until after he died. And it was a lifesaver because the mom hadn't been at work in like years and years and years. Without life insurance, their life would have like completely fallen apart. The point is, life insurance is an absolute lifesaver.

[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Bezavale]

And this is the thing. This actually held me up from getting life insurance for a long time. There's no medical exam and you just answer a few simple health questions like there's no barriers to doing it.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. And you can get up to $3 million in coverage and some policies are as low as $30 a month.

[Julia Bezavale]

Yeah. And you'll get their lowest rate from their network of trusted carriers.

[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Bezavale]

No, no.

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Bezavale]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Bezavale]

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[Julia Bezavale]

That's ethos.com/tco.

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[Julia Bezavale]

Marissa is going to do like a news report. Like that's what the ultimate thing that's going to happen.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Julia Bezavale]

She's bringing all of the families together to participate in this report. The family is so grateful for her. She's so grateful for them. Marissa is really talking about how like the story really highlights why it's important to know your roots. And then somebody says and why we don't.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Julia Bezavale]

I mean really think about that because like the whole, the whole point about how pre emancipation they didn't, they weren't given names and documents. Like this is why they don't have access to their stories before that time.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. And for Marissa to say like we this easily could have been solved if we had our full family trees. And that's when the person's like, but we know why we don't.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

So Marissa and it's so amazing. All of these family members are coming together. They're bringing people that Marissa hasn't met yet.

[Julia Bezavale]

Like haven't met each other because it's cousins and family from the other side.

[Patrick Hines]

And then Marissa understood unveils the facial reconstruction that the DNA Doe project created. And everyone's emotional. And I'm like, there he is.

[Julia Bezavale]

This guy.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh my God, there he is.

[Julia Bezavale]

Is so handsome. It like took my breath away. Somebody pulls out a Phone and was like, this is my nephew. It's a spitting image. And we see an iPhone picture next to like, the. The facial reconstruction.

[Patrick Hines]

And it's.

[Julia Bezavale]

It's almost as though the facial reconstruction is a copy of the iPhone picture.

[Patrick Hines]

The resemblance is undeniable.

[Julia Bezavale]

It's unbelievable.

[Patrick Hines]

Undeniable. And like, we meet Chris, who's the. On the John Doe's mother side, and

[Julia Bezavale]

he goes, the first thing that came to my mind is like, I could feel it in my bones saying, like, you know, help me out. Help me. Nobody has to be alone. It's like an aching inside.

[Patrick Hines]

He's saying, help me. Nobody has to be alone. There's like an aching inside in my bones. Oh, my God. So this man's family is here. He brought these two sides together. They didn't even know they existed before this.

[Julia Bezavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And now as we're ending, it sort of gets turned around. Like, now it's up to you.

[Julia Bezavale]

Well, this was the moment I realized, like, we're not going to solve it in this episode. I was like, oh, God. Oh my God. I've not seen one where we haven't gotten to the bottom of it before.

[Patrick Hines]

So, like, this man has roots in Texas, Louisiana and Alabama. There's a whole DNA doe project.org like page I DM Marissa because I was like, what is the most recent call to action? Yeah, is there anything. I said, we have this platform, we want to use it. Like, tell me what to say.

[Julia Bezavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So she said, and I quote, we are still looking for connecting points and other leads. The best call to action is for people, especially African Americans, to their ancestry through DNA and or family records. I wish finding his identity would be simple, but it will take more people willing to go on the journey with their own family trees to close this case. Yeah. And so I sent you the article today. Remember a couple of. I think the last time we did a Naming the Dead episode, we were talking about how very rightfully so people, especially African Americans, are like, I'm not putting my DNA in a database where it can get used against me. And I was like, don't worry, we'll get back to it. So in the article that Mares did on like www.wave3.com like on her news site, Jennifer Randolph, the head of the DNA DOE project, says, you're not giving all of your genetic information or putting it in a database where it can be used against you.

[Julia Bezavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

She says so very plainly, you pick and choose how your information is used. In each database, there are unidentified human remains and suspect Cases after violent crimes, there's DNA from crime scenes that can be used to identify suspects. So she says even though people fear that law enforcement will be able to access their DNA, DNA information. That is not true. That's what she says. She says it only shows where the DNA profiles overlap and the information is private. So she ends by saying, like, you should always read the terms and conditions.

[Julia Bezavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

But she is saying specifically in the article that Marissa put out there, like, it is safe for you to do this. And we, that community, especially people with slavery in their roots in their history, it's so important that you do this so we can get the identities back. Like, these slave owners aren't gonna fucking win.

[Julia Bezavale]

Oh, ye.

[Patrick Hines]

They're not winning.

[Julia Bezavale]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So we understand the fear, but that link is out there. Marissa, like, got the story. So Jennifer Randolph from the DNA Doe project is saying that it's safe. So we got it. We got to find out who this guy is. Everybody.

[Julia Bezavale]

We got to. Well, we, like, we need to set Google alerts so we can have updates if there are any.

[Patrick Hines]

You think I have it?

[Julia Bezavale]

Let me rephrase that. I should set my own Google alert so I can get an update if there is one.

[Patrick Hines]

And the DNA Doe project is so great. Like this guy. If you just, like, Google this case, the DNA Doe Project page will come right up and they have, like, dated updates. So you can always go there and check back. They will have your back. They will always update the cases.

[Julia Bezavale]

Yeah. You're going to. Don't leave us for the DNA do brush.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm not going to leave it, but I am going to love it. And I am going to cry every time I watch it.

[Julia Bezavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And I am going to tell these people how much I love them.

[Julia Bezavale]

We love you, DNA Joe Project.

[Patrick Hines]

We love you, DNA Joe Project.

[Julia Bezavale]

Oh, my God, girl. We did naming the dead, the body on the train. Are we doing all of them?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, we're going to do all of them, I believe, for our bonus episodes.

[Julia Bezavale]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So this is our eighth bonus episode. I hope you're enjoying them so far.

[Julia Bezavale]

Oh, good. Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

But they're. There's, like, a lot more coming.

[Julia Bezavale]

All right. Amazing, fam. We love you. Get out of here. Go do something good.

[Patrick Hines]

Go do something good.

[Julia Bezavale]

Go do something good in the world.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God. We love you. Thank you, Marissa.

[Julia Bezavale]

You're a badass, Marissa, you're the best.

[Patrick Hines]

Obsessed with you.

[Julia Bezavale]

All right, bye.

[Patrick Hines]

Bye.