515: The Yogurt Shop Murders (From "20/20")

Summary

True Crime Obsessed – Ep 515: The Yogurt Shop Murders (From "20/20")

Release Date: July 28, 2026
Winner of 2026 Webby Award!
Recapping with humor, heart, and sass, hosts Julian and Jillian break down the "20/20" special on the notorious Austin, Texas Yogurt Shop Murders, blending dark subject matter with wit and keen social commentary.

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EPISODE OVERVIEW

The podcast recaps the “20/20” coverage (Season 48, Ep. 18) of the 1991 Yogurt Shop Murders in Austin, Texas, exploring the brutal killing of four teenage girls, the decades-long investigation, false confessions, wrongful convictions, dogged efforts by family and law enforcement, and the ultimate solving of the case via DNA and genetic genealogy. Alongside the case deep-dive, the hosts reflect on criminal justice failures, societal fears, evolving policing methods, and the importance of advances in forensic science.

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KEY DISCUSSION POINTS & INSIGHTS

1. Case Background and Scene ([00:22–06:31])

• Victims Introduced: Sisters Jennifer and Sarah Harbison, Amy Ayers, and Eliza Thomas.
• 1991, Austin, TX: After a shift at “I Can’t Believe It’s Yogurt!” four girls are found shot and sexually assaulted.
  "They were just going to the fucking yogurt shop so they can watch whatever TV was on in 1991. TGIF or whatever." – Julian [05:42]
• The fire set to cover the crime ruins much evidence; even so, DNA is preserved from under Amy's fingernails.

Memorable Moment:
Hosts riff on ‘90s nostalgia and “The Office” jokes, relating the absurdity of the yogurt shop’s name to pop culture.

2. Impact on Austin and Families ([06:31–14:39])

• Austin’s Transformation: The murder shattered Austin’s sense of safety, compared by hosts to prior tragedies but deeply personalized due to the victims’ ages.
  • "They say the yogurt shop murders were the crime that changed Austin forever." – Jillian [12:59]
• Family Portraits Painted: Victims described as vibrant, each with unique dreams and strong family bonds.
• Emotional Fallout: Reluctance by police to disclose full details to grieving families; immense community support forthcoming.

3. First Suspects: The “Creek People” and Early Investigations ([17:40–25:15])

• "Creek people": Local teens, marginalized by police and media, including suspect Maurice Pierce, who had a .22 similar to one of the murder weapons.
• Coerced Confessions and False Leads: Maurice, wired by police, attempts to implicate friend Forrest Welburn with no result.
• Rise of “The Four”: Police focus narrows on Maurice, Forrest, Robert Springsteen, and Michael Scott (unrelated to "The Office").
  • "I really didn't know that Michael Scott was one of the names. When I made that connection to that I can't believe it's yogurt thing, I was screaming." – Julian [21:10]

4. Lack of Evidence and Legal Missteps ([23:05–32:47])

• No physical evidence ties any of the “Four” to the yogurt shop.

• Despite this, community and cop pressure mount:
  "They have 0000 evidence." – Julian [24:30]

• False confessions begin after intense, manipulative interrogations using the controversial Reid technique.

  Notable Segment:

  • [27:07–31:43] Horrors of the Reid technique and how police feed details, wear down suspects, and produce unreliable confessions.
  • “I mean, this is horrifying. This should be played on what not to do… This is how they get a false confession.” – Julian [27:07]

5. Trial, Conviction, and Exoneration ([36:13–41:40])

• Springsteen and Scott convicted—Springsteen to death, Scott to life—despite recanted confessions and persistent lack of evidence.
• Breakthrough: Improved DNA testing (Y-STR) shows none of the four boys matches crime scene evidence (2009 retrial).
• Charges dropped but not fully exonerated; they remain in legal limbo for years.
  • “You can be out after 15 years for serving time for a crime that you definitely did not commit, but sleep with one eye open because we might come and get you.” – Jillian [40:08]

6. DNA, Genetic Genealogy & The Real Killer ([43:06–54:52])

• Detective Dan Jackson by 2025 leads manual database search.
• The Break: A shell casing from the yogurt shop links to a 1998 Kentucky murder.
• DNA and ballistics reveal a cross-state serial killer: Robert Beshears.
• CeCe Moore (genetic genealogist) ties multiple murders and assaults spanning decades and several states to Beshears using genealogy and a Facebook search.
  • “They dig this son of a bitch up…they’re out there with toy shovels, like, smoking cigarettes. Do it in the least respectful way possible.” – Jillian [53:18]
• Beshears had faked his death, evaded law enforcement, and ultimately died by suicide in a police standoff in 1999.

7. Exoneration and Aftermath ([56:08–60:07])

• September 2025: Austin PD officially exonerates the four men. Families and the men themselves appear, drained rather than celebratory.
• Ripple Effects: Maurice Pierce (one of the “creek people”) died during a police encounter years after being falsely targeted, his life forever altered by wrongful suspicion.
• Damage Continues: The false accusations ruined lives and reputations, and one of the men spent time on death row.
• “Their lives were ruined, and the lives of their families were ruined and the lives of their children were ruined, you know, and continued to be ruined to this day.” – Jillian [58:36]

8. Reflection: What Did We Learn? ([59:35–61:13])

• The hosts dissect the systemic failings: police rush to closure, use of manipulative interrogation tactics, reliance on confessions over evidence, and the limitations of a legal system prone to human error.
  • “You cannot be allowed to lie to suspects. That’s number one.” – Jillian [60:07]
• They acknowledge legislative progress:
  • Homicide Victims’ Families Rights Act (2022), allowing federal case file review if unsolved for 3+ years, born partly from this case.
  • “It was written with this case in mind.” – Julian [61:02]

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NOTABLE QUOTES & MEMORABLE MOMENTS

• “They were just being girls…Like, we can’t have anything. I was just like, we can’t even have yogurt.”
  — Jillian [05:36]
• “At the end of the day, the Reid technique means that they can lie to you…It’s all legal. And it is still what is in practice today.”
  — Jillian [27:14]
• “I remember being disgusted with myself. I remember my ears ringing. He wasn’t there. No, he was not. Now he’s having visceral…responses… You were not there.”
  — Julian [30:07]
• “We always have to test the DNA. It’s not hard. We’ll raise the money. Like, we’ll figure it out.”
  — Julian [39:22]
• “It kills me that it’s rare, but thanks for calling it out, Matt.”
  — Julian (on the police chief’s formal exoneration, [57:00])

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IMPORTANT SEGMENTS & TIMESTAMPS

• [00:22–06:31] Crime, victims, and Austin’s environment
• [17:40–20:21] Introduction of “creek people” and first suspect thread
• [27:07–31:43] The Reid technique, false confessions, and mental toll
• [36:13–38:30] Trials, faulty evidence, and initial convictions
• [43:06–46:21] DNA advances, linking cases across multiple states
• [47:18–54:52] The real killer, Robert Beshears: his criminal history, identification via genetic genealogy, and connection to the yogurt shop case
• [56:08–60:07] Exoneration, systemic damage, lasting consequences
• [60:07–61:13] Lessons learned, reforms, and hosts’ reflections

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THEMES & TONE

• Blend of irreverent humor and compassion, balancing true crime analysis with pop culture references, emotional empathy, and pointed criticism of investigative failures.
• Persistent advocacy for justice reform, forensic science improvements, and humane police practices.

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TAKEAWAYS FOR NEW LISTENERS

• The Yogurt Shop Murders were not only a tragedy for the immediate victims and their families, but a decades-long saga that revealed deep flaws in the American justice system: coercive policing, obsession with confessions over evidence, and slow adoption of new forensic tools.
• The case only found its true resolution after relentless efforts to leverage genetic genealogy, new technology, and by challenging previous investigative assumptions.
• Justice, when delayed and denied, costs real lives—both of the innocent and those seeking closure.
• Humor and heartfelt reflection from Julian and Jillian remind listeners of the human stakes and the necessity for systemic change.

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Final Note:
“Call a lawyer.” – Jillian & Julian, closing words of the podcast [62:41]

Transcript

[Julian]

When he does that manual run through the system. This leads Detective Dan to everything we just told you.

[Jillian]

Yes. So we are now, we've now connected this piece of shit from the four crimes he did in those other states to the yogurt shot murders.

[Julian]

And they confirm 100% that this piece of shit's DNA is under Amy's fingernails. Yes. So he did it and we fucking got him.

[Jillian]

All right, girl, what are we talking about today?

[Julian]

So we are doing the yogurt shop murders. This is the 2020 episode, season 48, episode 18. We are doing this instead. The four part series on HBO that then became a five part series when the updates came. But this episode has it all in.

[Jillian]

They got a lot done in this, like 90, 90 minutes or so. There's a lot here. But it's very well done, it's very good. I knew nothing of this case.

[Julian]

I was waiting for the episode that would tell like the full story.

[Jillian]

And here we are.

[Julian]

We believe that it was business as usual. The shift started about 7 o'.

[Jillian]

Clock. It was set to close around 11pm

[Julian]

Two of the girls had left to go to the mall and were coming to the yogurt shop.

[Jillian]

They were going to have a big slumber party, a big sleepover.

[Julian]

It's Friday night. They're wanting to get out of there. The girls were all picking up, cleaning up the yogurt store. Something horrific and evil was about to walk in that door. They were supposed to be home by 11, but they were already dead by 11. Before we start, can I say something?

[Jillian]

Of course.

[Julian]

So the yogurt. Not to like make jokes, but the yogurt shop is called I Can't Believe it's yogurt.

[Jillian]

It's so 90s. I was like obsessed with the name of this store.

[Julian]

But there's a bit in the office where Michael Scott.

[Jillian]

Wait, you're going to bring, you're going to bring up the office now? We're going to. Okay, great.

[Julian]

Because there's an episode where he doesn't know what TCBY stands for. And he's like stuttering and stammering and he conflates it with I can't believe it's not butter. So he's like, tcby, I can't. I can't believe it's yogurt. And I'm like.

[Jillian]

But he was right. Thank God it's yogurt. Thank God it's yogurt. Is that what TCBY is?

[Julian]

I can tell you in 1984, I can't believe it's yogurt. Sued TCPY, whose company was originally named this can't be yogurt, exclamation point. And the lawsuit then forced TCBY to change its name to the country's best yogurt.

[Jillian]

Oh, my God.

[Julian]

That was a bit. Because, like, there's no way a place is actually called I can't believe it's yogurt. I thought that was the joke in the episode.

[Jillian]

And not to mention the fact that we are going to get another Michael Scott in this episode.

[Julian]

And I didn't know that. When I screamed, this is literally the first thing I wrote down. I can show you my notes.

[Jillian]

Oh, my God.

[Julian]

And then when I saw that there was a mic, I was like, this is. We're being haunted by Michael Gary Scott.

[Jillian]

Well, it's December 6, 1991. We're in Austin, Texas.

[Julian]

It all started late one Friday night with a police radio call to Detective John Jones.

[Jillian]

An Austin police homicide investigator happens to have a news crew riding with him in the car that night, and he gets a call and starts speeding to the scene. He had a news crew with him in the car in the moment. He gets the call. We see the moment and we hear the moment. He gets the call about what will come to be known as the yogurt shop murders.

[Julian]

Yeah. Jonesy just, like, happens to have the news crew with him.

[Jillian]

It's absolutely wild. So he races there. Like you said, it's called I can't believe it's yogurt, exclamation point. Huge fire. Now, the efforts to put out this fire were massive. There were lots of water used, and while there. In there putting out the fire, they literally trip over a body.

[Julian]

Which I know at first sounds super callous and awful, but they thought that this was an empty burning building because it was late at night. So they weren't expecting anyone. They were just really. Their focus was putting out the fire, literally. So, like, when I heard that, I was like, oh, God. But no, it was the fire department. Like, they're not thinking anything else. No.

[Jillian]

And not only was it one body, they quickly realized it's four bodies in this, like, in this yogurt shop in a strip mall. Like, this is a small sort of, like, storefront of a. Of a building.

[Julian]

Yeah. And everything was shut down. It was, like, quiet. Right. So they discover four bodies. They were teenage girls. They were all shot in the head. They were all sexually assaulted. It's horrifying. The Austin cops immediately call in reinforcements. Like the FBI and the atf.

[Jillian]

Yes.

[Julian]

And the crime scene was really hard to process, which was the point of the fire.

[Jillian]

Right, exactly. And like. And. And because they. There was so much water used in putting out the fire, there was, like, not a. Of evidence to be recovered at the scene.

[Julian]

But this is 1991, remember? And now we get one of those things. I know people hate this trope because people are like, well, we don't need to be told that DNA was, like, hard to get. 1991, but it was really important.

[Jillian]

Yes, yes.

[Julian]

And, like, the amount of DNA they were able to get and preserve. Well, is. Someone describes it as remarkable. I agree.

[Jillian]

Yeah. And one of the things they took were fingernail clippings from the girls. These were young. These were teenage girls, and they took fingernail clippings from at least one of them.

[Julian]

And so I want to say their names here. So their names are Sarah Harbison, Jennifer Harbison. They are sisters, Amy Ayers and Eliza Thomas.

[Jillian]

Yeah. So Eliza Thomas and Jennifer Harbison were working the evening shift that Friday night. But two other girls, Jennifer's sister, Sarah Harbison, as well as her dear friend Amy Ayers, they were at the mall earlier that evening, but went to the yogurt shop. They were going to have a big slumber party, a big sleepover. They were coming to meet the girls at the yogurt shop, and then they were going to go back to that house for sleepover.

[Julian]

They were just being girls.

[Jillian]

Yes.

[Julian]

Like, we can't have anything. I was just like, we can't even have yogurt.

[Jillian]

Or the office says this episode at the mall.

[Julian]

All besties. They all got along like two sisters getting along. They all get along with each other's friends. They were just going to the fucking yogurt shop so they can watch whatever TV was on in 1991. TGIF or whatever it was.

[Jillian]

Oh, my God.

[Julian]

Whatever. It could be in 1991.

[Jillian]

Step by step, if you're asking me.

[Julian]

Right. And, like, just be girls and do whatever. And yet. And yet, here we are.

[Jillian]

It's also, like, so young for these kids to have jobs. Like, I had a job when I was 14. I worked at an ice cream store. Like, I get it. It just feels like they, like. Like we are. When. When kids are closing up a store like that, we are setting them up for a situation like. Like the absolutely defenseless.

[Julian]

It's without all of the technology that we have today. Like, no, you know, like, alarm code. I know they had alarm systems, but I'm talking about, like, Bluetooth. Like, yeah. And the motion sensor.

[Jillian]

Different fact and we didn't think about, like, tragedies like this happening all the time, like in the way that it feels like they do now.

[Julian]

I know. And I think when we started to, like, hear about it more is when things started to change a little bit in terms of, like, safety and security.

[Jillian]

I also think that because we do this for a. To somebody yesterday, I used to be a little bit of a true crime robot where I could, like, do these episodes and like, go about my day. Now I say true crime around every corner. Everywhere I look is a true crime.

[Julian]

I can't believe that that wasn't your day. One of this whole endeavor.

[Jillian]

You know what changed? My kid got older. You know what I mean? Like my. Like my. My daughter is two years, one year away from one of these girls ages, you know, and like, it's one thing to walk through the world and be like, the world is scary and I can be killed at any moment. It's another thing to be like, oh, my God, my child. Like my. My 12 year old. Even when we were talk sleepovers, I was telling my friend Lucas today that we don't do sleepovers. And we are, like, out loud and proud about it.

[Julian]

They are a thing of the past.

[Jillian]

They absolutely are.

[Julian]

Yeah, I've heard from a lot of

[Jillian]

parents laugh at us. They're like, you're silly. And I'm like, you know, isn't silly your plumber, your repair guy, the creepy uncle that you didn't even want to come spend the weekend, but you were too weird. Like, you were too shy to say anything about it. My kid's gonna be there during that

[Julian]

sleepover week after something happened.

[Jillian]

No, but like, this. This is how it happens.

[Julian]

No, I know.

[Jillian]

You know?

[Julian]

I know. But I've heard most of the parents say, no, we don't do sleepovers ever. I very rarely hear parents say, they can have a sleepover.

[Jillian]

Yeah, right.

[Julian]

But that was not my life,

[Jillian]

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[Julian]

Yeah, there's always a lot to do. Yes, and Gusto totally has it covered. So we're talking like automatic payroll filing, simple direct deposits, health benefits, things that make normal people, like, their head explode because they're like, I can't follow this. This Gusto has you covered.

[Jillian]

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[Julian]

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[Jillian]

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[Julian]

That's three months of free [e-mail] TCO one more time.

[Jillian]

Gusto.com TCO go pay your people.

[Julian]

Yeah, Say it with Gusto. Right?

[Jillian]

Well done, GP fam. Before we get back to the episode, just a reminder, we've got a Facebook group, about 60,000 people in there.

[Julian]

Yeah, we have a grand old time. Also, same thing on the Discord. We have a Discord server with a bunch of different channels where everyone chats and is really nice.

[Jillian]

It's so fun to, like, go to the Facebook groups on days where we're not doing episodes. Or, like, just if you, as a listener, get in there, talk about the episodes, make new friends. Discord, same thing. Everybody's really nice. It's highly moderated. Sash makes sure that it's a very, like, safe and fun place to be on the Internet. So check it out.

[Julian]

I also went in there. Cause we're doing maternal instinct. And then we're gonna do an after party about what was left out. I was like, hey, everyone, please teach me about feral hogs if you know about feral hogs. And then John Oliver did an episode about feral hogs, like, that week. It's a whole thing. You'll hear about it in the after party.

[Jillian]

Oh, my God.

[Julian]

Sometimes I go in and I'm like, wait, can you, like, what?

[Jillian]

Feral hogs could draw the wrong kind of crowd?

[Julian]

Girl, I know very. They're awful. But, like, hey, my pots. People talk to me about pots.

[Jillian]

Wrong.

[Julian]

Mackenzie Shurilla is so. That part's fun too.

[Jillian]

So we learn that these girls were herded into the back office of the yogurt shop. Once again, it's like a strip mall store. It's not a big space.

[Julian]

That word in that context, herded my skin crawl.

[Jillian]

You know, the thing about that word, too, is that, like, you just know the guy had a gun. You know what I mean? And like, that's how he, like, because how could one person overpower four kids? You know, four people, one gun, maybe two. Right? So these girls. This is terrible. This is not for the kids. Turn it off in the car, everybody. Thank you so much.

[Julian]

They were forced to strip. They were forced to tie each other up with their underclothes bound and gagged. They were sexually assaulted. And then they were each shot in the back of the head, execution style. And the place was set on fire.

[Jillian]

And then the place was set on fire.

[Julian]

And so let's talk about the weapons. All four girls were shot with a. With a.22. And Amy, who is the youngest girl, was shot a second time with a.380 semi automatic pistol. So they're thinking, okay, does that mean two people, two guns, two people.

[Jillian]

And also the shell casing from that.380 semiautomatic, which is a thing I hope I never have to say again.

[Julian]

Can't. I can't pick it out of a lineup.

[Jillian]

Seriously. Made its way into a floor drain and was recovered on the scene. So I guess the implication is that the other show casings, the killer saw and picked them up, but this one was in a drain in.

[Julian]

I love that. I know the fire didn't get to it or whatever, but like, I loved that because I'm like, when you plant 2020, I see you and I know you. I know exactly what you're doing. When you plant something like that there, you know that that shell casing down the drain is coming back, right? In a major, major way.

[Jillian]

2020. Can I thank you for your lower thirds? Can we have a minute for the lower. Look, we know you got Andrea Cannon, we know you got Joshi Manx, we know you got Keith. But like, give us a lower. I would trade one of them for a lower third.

[Julian]

The thing. I would.

[Jillian]

Okay, okay, okay, I take it back, I take it back, I take it back.

[Julian]

I don't mind if that's your style and you don't want to do lower thirds. Okay. But my issue is, you know what I'm going to say. The closed captions.

[Jillian]

Yes.

[Julian]

If I can't follow, I want to get the person's name.

[Jillian]

Yeah.

[Julian]

And then if you're behind your head, then if you're going to have shitty closed captions.

[Jillian]

Yes.

[Julian]

Oh, shit, we've talked about this. Then you got to do the lower thirds. You know what I mean? Like, it's enough. I've gotten so many DMs, being like, you keep dragging Peacock. I know until they make the change. So I have a responsibility now.

[Jillian]

Yeah. So once again, we're reminded it's 1991. The Homicide Unit had very limited resources. There were only six people. There were only six people on the Austin homicide unit.

[Julian]

Yeah.

[Jillian]

And we learned that part of that was because, like, Austin of 1991 is not the Austin we know today. Austin in 1991 was kind of a sleepy college town, a third the size

[Julian]

of it is now.

[Jillian]

And people, you know, back then didn't lock their doors at night. They say people didn't lock their doors at nights. Now, here's something. They say the yogurt shop murders were the crime that changed Austin forever. I know it was a long time before this, but Austin is where tower happens.

[Julian]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jillian]

Like, literally, our country's first known school shooting happened at the university of Austin in 68. Yeah. Yeah. And it was on a college campus. But, like, this was not Austin's first major tragedy.

[Julian]

No. They do say, say Austin lost its innocence. And I think they mean, like, I think they thought of it differently. I don't know how to say this. Maybe I even shouldn't say it, but I think they think of, like, oh, four girls from eighth grade.

[Jillian]

Yeah.

[Julian]

To, you know. Yeah. 13 to 16. Like, that was like a psychopath. But this was something that was so not saying.

[Jillian]

But, no, no, no. I, I every. All of these deaths are awful. Like, you're not discounting the Austin. You're not discounting the university of Austin. But it is true. Like, four young girls at the yogurt

[Julian]

shop, they came from the mall having a sleepover. And during the holiday season, it's December, so I think that's why people were like, whoa. And they were able to distance themselves from 1968 and 1991.

[Jillian]

But. And also truly, like, the killer is on the lam. So, like, that's another thing, too, where, like, in Austin, at least, like, they. They got the guy, you know?

[Julian]

So we start talking to some of their family members. Barbara Wilson is Jennifer and Sarah's mother. Remember, they were sisters. And she just says the girls were vivacious, they were loving. They loved each other. Yes. They grounded. Their mother.

[Jillian]

Sonora is Eliza's sister. She describes Eliza as, like, fashionable and energetic. She had fantasies of being a model who didn't in 17.

[Julian]

And I love how she was, like. And she wanted to do a lot of different things. She was 17. Like, the world is her oyster.

[Jillian]

Amy Ayers was 13. Her parents are here, and, like, her brother Sean is also here. He's going to become More of a player in this later. But, like, this little lady, like, loved horses. She loved being a rancher. She was like a total cowgirl.

[Julian]

Her dad said she was just a cowgirl. Like these people.

[Jillian]

Part of me feels like I could have had that kind of life. I could have been a little cow girl, really.

[Julian]

Helping with the animals.

[Jillian]

Helping with the animals. Like, riding on the. It would have. I wouldn't have liked the manual labor

[Julian]

of it, probably, but a lot of shit.

[Jillian]

Yeah.

[Julian]

You know, my first, like, a lot of poop.

[Jillian]

My first job was I worked at a. Like, an outdoor petting zoo. Like, raking, like, poop and. And doing horse rides. Like, I didn't. I didn't mind it so much. I feel like I would not have evolved into. I wouldn't have loved being a cowgirl as I got older, but at 13, I could have been a sassy little cowgirl.

[Julian]

Horse poop is something else.

[Jillian]

Horse. Well, because we live on a street that the horse carriages go down.

[Julian]

Why do we still have them?

[Jillian]

It's horrible.

[Julian]

Were we supposed to get rid of them a million years ago?

[Jillian]

But even the police horses, like, when they stop to take a dump, it is massive.

[Julian]

They don't even stop half the time. No. But horses in general, just popping away.

[Jillian]

Yep. Poop.

[Julian]

Here we go.

[Jillian]

Which is one way to do it for them.

[Julian]

Birds do the same thing.

[Jillian]

I got shit on by a bird on my head last week.

[Julian]

You know why people say that's good luck? It's the worst. What else do you say? You're just like, oh, wow. So what'd you have to do? Go home. Then I just make you relive it.

[Jillian]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Julian]

Like what you have to do. Go home and take a shower. But the way to end the conversation is, you know what?

[Jillian]

It's good luck.

[Julian]

No, it's not. Daisy, would you get a lottery ticket, too, the next day? No.

[Jillian]

Daisy saw it happen in real time. She looked up, she goes, laughed in

[Julian]

my face as I said, one day it'll be you, kid.

[Jillian]

I know.

[Julian]

One day it'll be you.

[Jillian]

It comes out dripping down my glasses, girl.

[Julian]

No, it wasn't.

[Jillian]

It was really bad. It was really awful.

[Julian]

That's disgusting.

[Jillian]

I know, but you're right. Horses will just poop as they walk.

[Julian]

Good for them. They're majestic beasts. Do whatever they want. They're stunning.

[Jillian]

I want for the Hero Bell calendar, I want a picture of a horse walking and taking a dump. And it just says majestic geese.

[Julian]

I mean, squad.

[Jillian]

Yeah, that's great.

[Julian]

Even in reality, it Stinks to high heaven.

[Jillian]

Yeah.

[Julian]

And the poops themselves are like, that's nothing compared to. I think there's like, piles of poop.

[Jillian]

Piles of poop. But the individual. The individual nuggets are like, sorry, everybody. Let's.

[Julian]

You know what? I would much rather talk about the horse. Horse.

[Jillian]

You talk about the horse.

[Julian]

Than what we're dealing with right now.

[Jillian]

Well, we learn, like, how all of the families were told.

[Julian]

They were telling us some story about there being a fire. See, I'm still not processing any of this very well. That there was a fire and the girls didn't make it. They were trying not to tell us that they had been shot.

[Jillian]

The police didn't want to tell the parents right away that the girls were sexually assaulted and that they were shot. They were saying, like, there was a fire and they didn't make it.

[Julian]

Jennifer and Sarah's mom, Barbara said, when this happens, the devil has come to your door. Like, that's the only way to describe it, really. That's absolutely true.

[Jillian]

The one thing that that happens here that's amazing is that, like, the community of Austin springs into action. All of the families say, like, they felt like they had a lot of support from the community.

[Julian]

What I loved about the community, it's so many kids. It's people, it's their peers. You know, like Amy's dad says, look around. Look at what we've got behind us. And I'm like, these people are going to make me sob the rest.

[Jillian]

So eight days in, they get their first solid lead. We learn about this kid named Maurice Pierce. He was 15 years old. Witnesses had seen him with a.22. Remember, the.22 was one of the guns that had been used. And he had apparently bragged to other people about having been at the yogurt shop. We don't really get confirmation on this. We only hear it once. If it's true, you're a fucking idiot, Maurice.

[Julian]

Yeah, well, yeah, I don't think it happened. But we also hear about Shoal Creek, which runs through Austin.

[Jillian]

And the creek people.

[Julian]

Well, it's like when people think of Austin, they think of Shoal Creek. Austin peeps.

[Jillian]

I know.

[Julian]

Yeah. Because we were this. I'm not going to have this be another glitter ball city where everyone is like, we've never called.

[Jillian]

I'm calling bullshit. Even though we see Deborah Roberts at the end. And I don't want to, like, I don't want to assign her any bullshit here. My. One of my very best friends, Chris, lives in Austin. I've never heard him mention Shoal Creek. Okay. Not once.

[Julian]

Well, Austin friends, please reach out.

[Jillian]

And people of Austin, we love you. Like, tell us everything.

[Julian]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jillian]

You know, I've sometimes considered moving to Austin. Austin. My only problem is it's still too cold in the winters there.

[Julian]

It gets cold at night, right?

[Jillian]

Yeah. San Diego.

[Julian]

You're gonna live in Malibu or like Palm Springs.

[Jillian]

Palm Springs, totally.

[Julian]

What's that? That's like the hottest part of the desert in California. Palm Springs.

[Jillian]

Palm Springs. When we were there for like whatever we were there, it was like 110 in the middle of the day, that's

[Julian]

where you're gonna be. I was just like taking in like a couple years. You're gonna be bi. Coastal. And that's what you're gonna be.

[Jillian]

Totally.

[Julian]

And I'm not. That's not like a threat. That's like a happy thing.

[Jillian]

I can't. The cold winters. I can't do it, girl.

[Julian]

I can't wait for it. But there are like these kids. And as tips were coming in and witnesses were being interviewed, there came to be known the creek people.

[Jillian]

So underneath the bridge, kids would congregate there, smoke weed, drink beer that would

[Julian]

like hang out at the creek to, you know, drink beer and smoke weed. And they were called the creek people. And I'm like, really? And they're like, well, did the creek people do this? And I'm like, I'm gonna guess not.

[Jillian]

Can we go easy on the kids? Just smoking pot under the bridge downtown. Cole. We're calling them the creek people, like the mole people who live in the subways here.

[Julian]

But then it's like, like one of the creek people, such as 15 year old Maurice, who also is a 22. What is a 15 year old doing with a gun like that?

[Jillian]

Anyway, so Maurice is called in for questioning. He tells the cops that the night of the murders, another guy borrowed his gun. This guy named Forrest Welburn. And then when Forrest returned the gun to him, he told Pierce, he, quote, did something bad and he smelled like smoke.

[Julian]

And so the cops are like. The cops are like, you know what? You're wearing a wire right now.

[Jillian]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Julian]

So they. They wire up 15 year old Maurice.

[Jillian]

I love a wire. I love a wire. They send him in. They probably up the shir. The wire. They sent him to go get Forrest to say this on tape. Forrest is like, girl, what are you talking about?

[Julian]

What are you saying?

[Jillian]

Remember when we didn't kill those girls, but instead we. We stole a car and got out of town?

[Julian]

And this is when the cops are like, the truth is really not important right now because the cops are like, we're going to talk to Forrest anyway. We're going to talk to Forrest. And Forrest is like, okay, well, guess what? I still didn't kill those girls. But the day after the murders, I did steal a car.

[Jillian]

Yes.

[Julian]

And, like, drive to San Antonio with three of my friends, and one of them is Maurice. So maybe that's what you're looking at us for.

[Jillian]

But this is where we lear the original four suspects. Because the police believe what happened was these boys scoped out the yogurt shop, came back later, robbed it, murdered the girls, then stole the car, and then got out of town.

[Julian]

Right.

[Jillian]

And so the four suspects are Maurice Pierce, Forest Welburn, Robert Springsteen. Say it, girl.

[Julian]

And Michael Scott.

[Jillian]

Michael Scott.

[Julian]

And I didn't. I mean, it's a very common name.

[Jillian]

I will not let them steal our joy.

[Julian]

I know.

[Jillian]

I will not.

[Julian]

But you know what? We're like. Like, can I say I'm on these guys side?

[Jillian]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Julian]

Like, I mean, we're gonna unpack this. But I really didn't know that Michael Scott was one of the names. When I made that connection to that I can't believe it's yogurt thing, I was screaming.

[Jillian]

I was like, not Michael Scott. Anything but Don Draper. What if it was like, Maurice Pierce, Forest Welburn, Robert Springsteen, and John Draper?

[Julian]

Like, that would have been Springsteen. Roger Sterling, John Draper, Michael Scott.

[Jillian]

Totally.

[Julian]

Peggy Olsen.

[Jillian]

Exactly. Exactly.

[Julian]

Girl.

[Jillian]

Ladder is back. This is all about solving the problem of, like, what do you do when you go to the gym?

[Julian]

Yeah. At one place. I think I definitely need to be told what to do is the gym, because I have no idea what I'm doing. So the thing about Ladder that is so perfect for me is that, like, it's not just like a content farm of random workouts. Like, this is a strength training app. This is a programming app. So it really, really is exactly what I need in the gym.

[Jillian]

Yeah. And it feels like you're working out with a personal trainer who's, like, standing with you. You. You get in ear coaching guides that coach you through every set with cues for reminders and motivations. That is the thing that people who go to the gym on their own need more than anything.

[Julian]

Yeah. And even if you're working out from home, like, or any kind of strength training style that you prefer Pilates or bodybuilding.

[Jillian]

Yeah.

[Julian]

If you're just at home and you have dumbbells only or like, prenatal postnatal Whatever you do, ladder can help you.

[Jillian]

And ladder now includes nutrition tracking at no extra cost. So, like, that's the other component to this. Go to the gym, get your fitness on, and then like, you know, abs are made in the kitch.

[Julian]

Yeah. You know what we love a plan. I'm taking it.

[Jillian]

Yes. So fam, remove the guesswork with ladder and get a real coach in your ear telling you exactly what to do for every workout. So no thinking. Everything is planned for you.

[Julian]

Honestly. Perfect.

[Jillian]

I know.

[Julian]

If you have an iPhone, head to ladder, dot fit slash tco and take a quick quiz to find your perfect ladder plan.

[Jillian]

Use our link and get a free 7 day trial with no credit card and 10 bucks off your first month if you join.

[Julian]

There you go.

[Jillian]

Do I get your fitness on? So the cops believe that these four guys are their guys.

[Julian]

The only problem is there was absolutely no evidence at all. They didn't have the ballistics for the.22. They didn't have fingerprints, hair, DNA, nothing that tied any of these boys or anyone to this crime at all. They had at the beginning a lot of gossip, teenage gossip.

[Jillian]

There's absolutely no fucking evidence to support this. The ballistics from the gun do not match. It's the same kind of gun, but it's like the ballistics don't match, match. There's no DNA, there's no hair. Like, literally, they say all they have is teenage gossip. Which, by the way, I also love. I love teenage gossip. As love as much as I love Michael.

[Julian]

It's hard to follow when you don't really know all the players, but I'm in.

[Jillian]

I'm about to, like, really experience it a lot, I think, with my kid.

[Julian]

What's like the hottest goss you've heard so far?

[Jillian]

Well, like the hot goss, like at Daisy's school, is that like. Like she's got a lot of boyfriends, you know what I mean? We had three. I know by name. Two are anonymous. I'm not allowed to know their names. But they're not like, they're not really boyfriends. No, but I get all the hot goss from ab, our babysitter, because she'll tell Abby everything and then Abby will tell us. Oh, Daisy's also started doing this thing where whenever we do something that she doesn't like or like. Did you forget to feed the dog? She will go, it's a trifecta. Everything.

[Julian]

We gotta put an end to that.

[Jillian]

I. She's her father's daughter.

[Julian]

Yeah. On your way over to feeding the dog Literally. Yeah.

[Jillian]

Three shakes of the head.

[Julian]

Tell your story walking. Yes, they say but so they have 0000 evidence. You is going.

[Jillian]

Yeah.

[Julian]

So the families are frustrated. Obviously they want to keep the story alive. So they're wearing pins. We will not forget. Like this is. This is what always happens.

[Jillian]

Yes.

[Julian]

We're like something is at a standstill because the cops have blinders on. We've heard a million times that's not how you do this. So now the family suffering even more. These guys are like I didn't do anything. I'm 15 years old. Yeah. I shouldn't have a gun.

[Jillian]

And you have no proof that I did anything.

[Julian]

And I stole a car. But that's the worst thing I did.

[Jillian]

I just want to live my life as a creek person.

[Julian]

That's it.

[Jillian]

You know. We live and so. But the other thing too is that like the pressure is really on the cop. Like if you think about it for young girls were murdered. The killer is still on the loose. It were six months in. The cops have nothing. At this point the pressure is really on.

[Julian]

And you know that that is never good because it leads to an atmosphere that leads to bad decisions by the cops and the prosecutors.

[Jillian]

Yes.

[Julian]

And. Or false confessions and. Or wrongful convictions. Guess what everyone? We have all three.

[Jillian]

I don't understand. October 1992. We're 10 months in. Authorities became very excited after a man who was arrested, arrested in Mexico confessed to the murders. The man on the right goes by the nickname the Terminator. And that's exactly what 24 year old Carlos Saavedra claimed he did when he raped and killed four Austin teenagers. Two idiots confess to the murders.

[Julian]

One guy's known as the Terminator.

[Jillian]

Off they go down to interview these guys. The guys know no details of the case. Like they didn't do it. But one of our cops tells us they got over over 50 confessions because people want it.

[Julian]

And this is not because of police misconduct. This is because people want like better deals or if I tell you I know this or whatever, that's why they're doing it.

[Jillian]

Yeah.

[Julian]

Because this guy was in like the cartel or whatever was the Terminator. I don't know.

[Jillian]

Sounds like it.

[Julian]

I'm making a lot of assumptions here.

[Jillian]

But like yeah.

[Julian]

I would think that maybe you would say oh I know what I like. I know something just for the sake of a better deal. But like nothing.

[Jillian]

Nothing comes of it. Ain't eight years pass like this. I cannot fathom as the family. Eight years pass with nothing. It's the late 1990s, there's a new effort in Austin to like solve this case. They dust off the case files and they go back to square one.

[Julian]

Or do they? Because it sounds like they just went back looking for anything that pointed to the four original suspects. Teenagers and not arrested because there wasn't any evidence against them.

[Jillian]

Right.

[Julian]

Not how you do this.

[Jillian]

So they bring in a couple of a Michael Scott, who is interviewed for 18 hours without a lawyer. Robert Springsteen, interviewed for five hours without a lawyer. We see the interrogations and they are using what we now know, what is called the Reid technique.

[Julian]

I mean, this is horrifying. This should be played on what not to do. This played in schools of like, this is how they get a false confession out of you.

[Jillian]

I mean, at the end of the day, the Reid technique means that they can lie to you, they can keep you there as long as they want. They can. They can fuck with you in any way that they want to. It's all legal.

[Julian]

Any.

[Jillian]

And it is still what is in practice today.

[Julian]

Yeah, so like these guys have nothing to say because it was eight years ago, they were kids, they don't remember anything. Cause they didn't do anything.

[Jillian]

But the problem is the other thing too, like in the Reid technique, now they're not supposed to do this, but they do this anyway. Brandon Dassey is like the prime example. They are feeding them information so that they can then give the information back and then they can say that they offered this information. And what they're doing is they're exhausting these kids. They're giving them information that the kids then think that they had themselves. And these kids memories are starting to get fuzzy. They're starting to believe that maybe they actually did do this. And the thing that I was thinking too is that these are good kids and they want to do the right thing. So when Michael Scott's being interviewed for 18 hours and he is being made to believe that he actually was there, he actually starts to say like, wait, may maybe I was right. Maybe I did do this.

[Julian]

We've seen this all the time. And like eventually, after hours of unrelenting interviews, Michael Scott and Robert Springsteen confess to these murders. Robert Springsteen, when he confessed the last step of Reed interrogation is that you have them write the confession and sign it. Robert Springsteen refused to sign it. He immediately takes it back. Michael Scott takes it back. But he goes ahead and signs his. And then Michael Scott signs the confession, but also like verbally takes it back. Yeah, but we see these clips, and I'm telling you, these should be Taught. Because they're, like, berating Robert Springsteen.

[Jillian]

Yes.

[Julian]

And he's like, is it possible? Is it possible? And it just reminded me of, like, this bizarro world. My cousin Vinnie, like, only evil. Because there's that famous thing where he's like, is there any more shit that we can put on top to the outcome of this case? Is it possible? But, like, when he says it, that's the best. And then she's like, maybe it was a bad time to bring it up. This is when the biological clock is ticking. Like this.

[Jillian]

Yes.

[Julian]

Is it possible? It's my favorite thing, but it was like, bizarro version of that being like, is it possible? Is it possible?

[Jillian]

Well, because the other thing, too, is that, like, the kids don't want to piss off the cops. So, like, Michael Scott is saying, anything is possible. I didn't do it. Yes, anything is possible. I didn't do it. They're trying. And, like, this was before it was in the, I guess, popular understanding to just ask for a lawyer. You know, like, if they just asked for a lawyer, all of this would have been shut down, but they didn't know.

[Julian]

Robert Springsteen says, I'm not gonna say no anymore because you guys got a really compelling case. And I'm starting to remember a few things here and there.

[Jillian]

Yes.

[Julian]

And like Michael Scott says, you guys are triggering a bunch of memories. And I'm like, this is how. This is in real time. We are watching it happen. And like, Micha Scott goes. I remember being disgusted with myself. I remember my ears ringing. He wasn't there. No, he was not. Now he's having visceral memories and responses, bodily responses about, like, the details of the rapes and the murder. And it's like, you were not there.

[Jillian]

And he even says. He's like, well, there was that one girl that I tried to rape. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, you didn't. You didn't.

[Julian]

I have to tell you, like, I had a. I had to stop. I was having a very strong physical reaction to, like, what happened to the girls, that nothing is going on and that these co. Focusing and berating these men who are just like. I'm remembering now. I was like, oh, my God. No, you're not. I was like, I need to.

[Jillian]

I know.

[Julian]

I'm having, like.

[Jillian]

I know.

[Julian]

A reaction.

[Jillian]

No. And it's also because the cops have so much pressure on them to solve it. They don't even care if they get it right. They just need convictions. So Springsteen and Scott, who confess are both Charged with four counts of capital murder. But once again, we're reminded, like, they, yes, they did these confessions, but there is no actual evidence that they were there. No physical evidence, no DNA, no fingerprints, not nothing. And the community pretty quickly starts to realize that there's something is wrong with this case. These are not the guys.

[Julian]

And what's insane, though, is that, like, the charges against Maurice and Forrest end up being dropped because there's no evidence.

[Jillian]

Right?

[Julian]

And so ATF even says that Maurice is 22, is not the murder weapon, which doesn't connect to anything in these false confessions.

[Jillian]

Right.

[Julian]

So the fact that they have to drop charges on two should mean they drop them on them.

[Jillian]

All right?

[Julian]

But they don't know.

[Jillian]

They just. They need to get these guys. They need to get the community off their back.

[Julian]

And I also want to give you, like, one example of the read technique, because we see it, we hear this all the time. We're always screaming about, they can lie to you. They can lie to you. But here is it in practice in a very accessible, digestible way, I think. So, for example, like, they can and will lie to you. Like, it's encouraged, whatever, but they. You can be totally sure of something. Like the fact that Robert Springsteen is like, I was at the Rocky Horror Picture show that night.

[Jillian]

He went to see Rocky Horror, the midnight showing.

[Julian]

Like, he's like, I know I was there.

[Jillian]

I'm a Creek person. I want to throw my rice at the screen, right?

[Julian]

You know, say it and then. But the cops can lie to you and tell you, well, no, the movie actually wasn't playing that night, so you weren't there, but the movie was indeed playing the night of the murders. Questioning throws off his memory and why he could say he wasn't at the yogurt shop.

[Jillian]

Scott begins to believe all this stuff they're telling him. He's like, okay, so now I'm trying to. I'm trying to get these memories out

[Julian]

when meanwhile, the movie was playing and

[Jillian]

we see the newspaper ad for the Showtime.

[Julian]

So they do that to make you, like, confused and kind of start this crack of like, well, if I am misremembering that. And like, then they're in and then they just break you down. But, like, that is an example, because I feel like we say it all the time, but people could be like, well, how? Like, what do you mean? Little things like this. It's not just like. Like the Dateline episode we did where it's like, oh, your father's dead. We're going to kill your Dog like all that. It is that, right? But they work their way up. They start with you, with telling you something that you know in your bones is true. They lie to you, tell you that it's not, and that's how they start.

[Jillian]

And it like, once again, I just want to reiterate for the 90th time. These cops know there's no evidence.

[Julian]

Exactly.

[Jillian]

They know the gun doesn't match.

[Julian]

And at one point, Detective Robert Merrill held a gun to the back of Michael Scott's head in the interrogation.

[Jillian]

Yes.

[Julian]

As some kind of like, is this

[Jillian]

how you did it? Like, and we see it happen. He gets behind him with the gun pointed at the guy's head.

[Julian]

Yeah. The second day of their interrogation. They've been berated and screamed out for hours. Not eating, not sleeping. Ridiculous

[Jillian]

girl. Fabletics is back. Look, it's the summer, and summer always makes me want to be out doing things all day long. And you need. You need the right clothes for that kind of thing.

[Julian]

Yeah. So Fabletics is awesome. And I signed up as a new VIP with Fabletics and I got 70 to 80% off everything.

[Jillian]

Come on.

[Julian]

Like matching sets or tanks or lounge pieces. You know the thing, like, even if I'm going to like rot all weekend and not do anything, it does feel kind of nice to have like, you know what, I am going to shower and put on a cute little matching set so I don't feel like such a scrub.

[Jillian]

Yes. The quality, honestly surprised me because it's so reasonably priced. The Fabletics pieces feel like premium activewear you'd expect from higher end brands, but without the price tag. They are soft, they are breathable and built to actually last. They're going nowhere.

[Julian]

Yeah, they're like durable but also comfortable at the same time, which I didn't know was really a thing, but here we are.

[Jillian]

And honestly, you can wear them throughout the day, you can wear them to the gym, but you can also wear them to a PTA meeting, which I have done. You wear them to dinner, to the bar. Fabletics is like, can be great workout gear, but also just like great casual gear that you can wear anywhere.

[Julian]

And when you put on something that you know is good quality and feels good and is cute, it just sort of elevates your whole mood for the day. And I'm into that.

[Jillian]

Yep. So fam shop [e-mail] TCO to get 70 to 80% off everything. When you sign up as a new

[Julian]

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[Jillian]

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[Julian]

That's fabletics.com TCO for 70 to 80% off everything as a new VIP. That's crazy.

[Jillian]

It's wild, girl. Zenni is back. So look, I'm a glasses wearer all my life. Zenni is an online eyewear shop. They do prescription glasses, sunglasses, blue light lenses starting at under 30. I cannot tell you how reasonably priced and really, really cute everything is at Zenny.

[Julian]

Yeah, and it's also easy. You just go to zenni.com you pick a frame, you upload your prescription and they ship it right to your door. That means no appointments, you don't have to go to the store, no one's trying to upsell you at the counter.

[Jillian]

And look, this isn't in the talking points anywhere. But I always say it. They have the best virtual try on system I've seen anywhere where like you turn your camera on, you pick the glasses you want, and you can look at them from any angle. It follows you around. It is like really, really accurate to what they look like. I was, I tried on like literally 30 pairs.

[Julian]

Yeah, sometimes those virtual try ons are, they, they just like throw those words around and they don't mean anything and they're not helpful. But this is not the case with Zenny.

[Jillian]

Also, Zenny has over 150,000 reviews. And worth it. Like so many options, so reasonably priced. You're gonna love it.

[Julian]

And when everything is under 30 bucks, that's when you can get like, oh, I'll only use this pair four times a year. Great.

[Jillian]

Yes, exactly.

[Julian]

You're not throwing money out the window and you can look cute and you can see, which is very important.

[Jillian]

So fam, if your glasses are overdue for a refresh, now's the time.

[Julian]

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[Jillian]

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[Julian]

That's Z e n n I.com podcast promo code podcast15get I wear. Oh, adorable.

[Jillian]

Springsteen is tried first. Springsteen and Scott go on trial and we learn that they are able to use part of Springsteen's confession against Michael Scott and Michael Scott's confession against Springsteen.

[Julian]

Even though both of these confessions were recanted.

[Jillian]

Yes.

[Julian]

Even though there's no physical evidence. All they have are these very obviously false confessions. That's it. And they're trying them and using, using the false confession. One's false confession against the other. The juries believed the statements and ultimately Returned convictions. Robert Springsteen was sentenced to death by lethal injection, and Michael Scott was sentenced to life in prison.

[Jillian]

Springsteen is sentenced to death by lethal

[Julian]

injection in Texas, by the way.

[Jillian]

Yeah.

[Julian]

This is, you know, like, this isn't necessarily a place where he's got time aside in terms of putting people to death.

[Jillian]

No. And, like, I know your friend Damien has been through this. I cannot imagine what it would be like to be sentenced to death for something that you didn't do. Yeah. Sounds not like a great weekend.

[Julian]

This is. Yeah, this is like, a little close to home.

[Jillian]

Yeah.

[Julian]

Between, like, the sexual assault and then the death row and then the. The false confessions, I was just like, this is a.

[Jillian]

This is a big one. And, like, Michael Scott is sentenced to life in prison.

[Julian]

Now, 15 years after this. Now we're at October 2, 2009.

[Jillian]

Yeah.

[Julian]

The cases are retried because the Supreme Court rules that in other cases, two people statements cannot be used against each other in court.

[Jillian]

Can you imagine if, like, we didn't commit a crime? But my. But the cop was able to, in your trial, be like. And then Jillian, you know, killed that woman by pushing her in front of a bus. And their only evidence for that is that I said it.

[Julian]

I mean, isn't that exactly what we just said in Glitter Ball City?

[Jillian]

Yeah.

[Julian]

Same story. Only the names interchange.

[Jillian]

Yes, yes. And for it to be able to be part of the thing that gets you convicted is just this thing that this other person said and then said that isn't true.

[Julian]

And, like, no one on the jury the first time was like, I see no evidence. There was. I just don't understand. Like, I know that they didn't do DNA back in 1991. I know that that wasn't on people's radars, but to no witnesses. No, no, nothing. Like, if you're the lawyer, the alibi has to be. He was at Rocky Horror. Jason Misskelley was in a different county. He signed into the wrestling match. Yeah.

[Jillian]

Yeah. You know what I mean?

[Julian]

Like, throw that. But people didn't care. It was a brutal, brutal, brutal assault and murder.

[Jillian]

And they were sick of not being able to. We're eight. Right. Eight years later. Like, they got to get somebody.

[Julian]

But however. So now in 2009, now it's 15 years.

[Jillian]

Yeah.

[Julian]

We didn't even get this far to, like, the. The cases being retried.

[Jillian]

Right.

[Julian]

Because the convictions are dismissed thanks to updated DNA testing. But when prosecutors test the crime scene DNA with improved technology called ystr, which looks at male genetics only, they find none of the Four boys match the DNA recovered from the crime scene.

[Jillian]

That evidence made clear that there was no physical evidence tying the boys to the crime.

[Julian]

See why DNA testing is so important, Everybody? See why we have to always test the DNA?

[Jillian]

It is. Yes.

[Julian]

Do you see?

[Jillian]

Do you want to say it under the camera?

[Julian]

We always have to test the DNA. It's not hard. Yeah, no, we'll raise the money. Like, we'll figure it out.

[Jillian]

It's not even that expensive.

[Julian]

It's like. But don't you want to know who really did it?

[Jillian]

Yeah, well, but do they?

[Julian]

Well, then you're in the wrong line of work. Exactly.

[Jillian]

Yeah, we.

[Julian]

We know. We don't even have to. Yeah, but there's a catch. The cases are dismissed pending further investigation, which means they are free, but not really, because at any time they can be charged again. That's no way to.

[Jillian]

And, like, rearrested.

[Julian]

And, like, do they get compensation? Like, the system is so broken, but then they're just like, oh, sorry about that. Prison and death row for 15 years. You can be out now, right, But.

[Jillian]

And they always. Whenever they're like, well, it's as though they did them a favor, right? You can be out after 15 years for serving time for a crime that you definitely did not commit, but sleep

[Julian]

with one eye open because we might come and get you, right?

[Jillian]

What? Is our system broken?

[Julian]

Yeah, broken.

[Jillian]

Did it ever work?

[Julian]

I don't know.

[Jillian]

It's so interesting. I was talking to this Innocence Project attorney, and he was saying that in Tennessee, they. They get it right, like, 97% of the time.

[Julian]

You know, I. I wanted to say, I know we get shit for being hard on the system and the. The people who are good in it. I know that it can work.

[Jillian]

But. But my point, though, and his point, too, is that 3% of the time is just basic human error. Like in any other thing. In sports betting, 97% of the time, those are amazing odds, right? But that means that 3% of the time it's not going to be correct. Which means 3% of the time the person's going to jail forever or sometimes they get sentenced to death. How do we fix that? If the system is based on human beings being jury members and, like, you know what I mean? Like, and human error is a thing. I acknowledge that 3% is not acceptable. No, no percent is acceptable. But how. How do we fix. How do we fix it?

[Julian]

I don't know.

[Jillian]

How do we guarantee that we get it right 100% of the time?

[Julian]

I don't know. I mean, that's you know, that's always been my take on the death penalty.

[Jillian]

Yeah, right.

[Julian]

Because I have to be against it because there's at least 3% in, what would you say? Mississippi.

[Jillian]

Yeah. Tennessee.

[Julian]

Tennessee.

[Jillian]

Yeah.

[Julian]

You know, like I can't. Conscience.

[Jillian]

No, I couldn't agree more with that. But it's. When he said that to me, it really struck me that like unless we turn everything even, even if we got AI robots who knew everything and they were the jury members and you know, we get it down to 99% of the time, we get it right.

[Julian]

Like still have to double check their work.

[Jillian]

Of course. But my, my point is if we're going to have a system, I guess we have to accept that sometimes we're not going to get it right or

[Julian]

it's, it has to adapt. You know, how many times do we say that like the system is set up to work against women or domestic

[Jillian]

violence situations and once you're convicted, it's impossible almost to get that, you know, to get. So I think that's where we need to make the changes.

[Julian]

Yeah.

[Jillian]

But 3% is, is still a lot. And it's. Any percent is unacceptable. It's.

[Julian]

And that's one state.

[Jillian]

Yeah. And that's one state. Now we get the part of the documentary, we're with Pam and Bob who are Amy's parents. And I said going through the photo album just to ruin my day. And the thing is, it's so sad because the photo, the pictures stop when Amy is 13. So like they're thumbing through the photo album and her mother says, and that's where it stops. Like that's the last one. And that broke my heart.

[Julian]

And now Amy has a brother, right?

[Jillian]

Yes.

[Julian]

So he got married and now his wife, Amy's sister in law is here. Her name is Angie. And she's like, for me it was

[Jillian]

the right thing to do. I wanted to help them. I wanted to help my sister in law because it was not right what

[Julian]

was done to her and her friends. I never met Amy, but that doesn't mean I'm not gonna fight for her to get answers.

[Jillian]

She's here to like literally. Because I think the family gets exhausted at some point, of course. And so, you know, what are we like 20 years in or? And Angie's here to be like, I'm going to fight to find out what happened to the sister in law that I never met.

[Julian]

Right. And so now we were with Mindy Monford, who's the former assistant Attorney General for the Cold Case Unit. And she's like, we have to test this DNA. It's 2009 now. Like they kept it really well for 1991. We have it. Like we got to get to the bottom of it.

[Jillian]

The only thing is like, because we

[Julian]

know who didn't do it.

[Jillian]

We know who didn't do it, but there's also precious little of this DNA to test. So like, they've got to be really careful with it because they don't know how much they have.

[Julian]

And so they test hundreds of people against this profile that they have. Like first responders, cops, lawyers, family members, known serial killers, like everything. And we're still getting zero information until Detective Dan Jackson comes on the scene and changes everything.

[Jillian]

Dan Jackson comes in at the 30 year mark.

[Julian]

30 years.

[Jillian]

30 years of this case.

[Julian]

And to the point where I hope, I hope this comes. You take this as I mean it. But the Cold Case Unit offices, he like gives us a tour and it's almost like a museum to the case.

[Jillian]

And I've never seen anything like this.

[Julian]

There's like, I'm not saying that in a mean, but there's like a small model of the yogurt shop and scale, there's.

[Jillian]

It's a two scale diorama.

[Julian]

He says, yeah, so. And they're like framed photos and with biographies. Like, this is an. It's a cold case, but it's like it's preserved in a certain way.

[Jillian]

And the reason the cold case division was founded was for this case.

[Julian]

And Dan's like, take those false confessions and shove them. Yes, I want evidence. I want real evidence, actual evidence.

[Jillian]

He said that he didn't even actually like read a whole all of the case file because he was so focused on like looking what, looking at what was really that. So he didn't read all the interviews with all of the people. Like he's focused on what, what is tangible and what they can work with now. Girl, Chime is back. Look, Sam, you know this by now. Chime is changing the way people bank. They offer the most rewarding fee free banking.

[Julian]

Yeah, this is fee free banking built for you. And they're not like those traditional old banks that are super boring and annoying and they charge you overdraft and monthly fees. I never thought that I'd live in a lifetime where I didn't have to worry about overdraft or monthly fees. I didn't know that was here. It's here with Chime.

[Jillian]

Can we talk about rewards to Chime Members can benefit from up to 1,150 bucks in annual Rewards fee free. I love rewards.

[Julian]

Yeah. And you know what unlocks the most rewarding way to bank with Chime?

[Jillian]

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[Julian]

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[Jillian]

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[Julian]

Yeah. And you get premium travel perks like airport lounge access and 27 travel concierge included with your Chime card. Now that you're saving all that money, take a load off.

[Jillian]

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[Julian]

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[Jillian]

Head to Chime.com TCO that's Chime.com TCO. It only takes a few minutes to sign up, fam. Go do it.

[Julian]

Yeah. Start saving that money. Make your money work for you. Isn't that what they say?

[Jillian]

Yes.

[Julian]

Chime is a fintech, not a bank. Banking services from MyPay and Chimecard provided by Chime's bank partners. Optional products and services may have fees or charges. Stated annual percent yield and cash back for Chime prime only. No minimum balance required. Checking account ranking based on a J.D. power survey published October 20, 2025. For more information on APY rates, my pay spot me and travel perks, go to chime.com disclosures. So now it's June 2025. Yeah, it was yesterday. This happened last week. Not really, but it feels like that.

[Jillian]

Yeah.

[Julian]

Detective Dan runs the one shell casing. Remember I was like, that shell casing in the drain is definitely going to come back in a major way. Here we are. The ATF maintains this database and now you can take your expended shell casing,

[Jillian]

give it to Nibin, and they will

[Julian]

do one of these computer searches and

[Jillian]

they will search this database of thousands

[Julian]

and thousands of other expended shell casings. And remarkably, every once in a while

[Jillian]

you get a hit and Matt Murphy is here to be like, eh, we don't get a lot of hits, but sometimes we do. Yes. And say we fucking do the same day. Yes.

[Julian]

They run it through and like hours later, Dan's in the middle of his lunch break eating his tuna salad on rye and he's like, already?

[Jillian]

Yeah.

[Julian]

No one is expecting this.

[Jillian]

And the thing is, it doesn't give us a name, but it connects this shell casing to an identical shell casing from an unsolved case out of Kentucky from 1998.

[Julian]

And it's almost exactly the same. Or it's very, very similar.

[Jillian]

Yes.

[Julian]

A young woman was raped, shot in the back of the head with a.380. The business was burned to the ground.

[Jillian]

Yes.

[Julian]

And the gun is the only connection. Which is a hel lot better than two dueling false confessions.

[Jillian]

Yeah. Dan Jackson is asking the crime databases from across the country to do a manual search with the DNA that they have from the yogurt shop cases, to sort of individually upload the DNA that they have into these crime databases and they get a match.

[Julian]

And this is now 34 years after the murders. And this lead is all thanks to say with me genetic genealogy.

[Jillian]

Yes.

[Julian]

And CeCe Moore is here again. We just spoke to her. We've spoken to her three times. Wild Crime Season 2 Killer Cases Episode 7 and Benjamin Kyle for, like two seconds.

[Jillian]

She's incredible. She says she's been involved in over 300 cases that have been able to help law enforcement resolve cases. So CECE is telling us about a case from March 28, 1998. It's the case of Megan and Sherry Shirts. Mother and daughter viciously murdered. Sherry, the mom, had three gunshot wounds to the head. Megan also had a gunshot wound to the head. She had her hands bound behind her back with an extension cord and was.

[Julian]

Yep.

[Jillian]

And they get the perpetrator's DNA from Megan's body. So now we're gonna go to Derrisburg, Tennessee, which is 40 miles away from where Sherry and Megan had been murdered.

[Julian]

About nine o' clock at night, on the same evening that Sherry and Megan had been murdered, a mother in Dyer County, Tennessee, describes coming home with her kids and a maroon van pulls in. The man walks up and she describes the man and pulling a gun from the waistband of his pants and pointing it directly at her.

[Jillian]

A maroon van pulls into her driveway, tries to bust the door open to her front door. She's trying to keep it shut. The guy shoots through the door. The bullet gets lodged in her shoulder and he takes off.

[Julian]

And then, yeah, he just, like, leaves. He's like, oh, shit. Bail. He's bailing. He's bailing.

[Jillian]

But the ballistics expert is able to match that gun to the gun that was used in the. In the murder of Sherry and Megan.

[Julian]

Right.

[Jillian]

So that's connecting those two cases in Missouri and Tenness.

[Julian]

See, that took place hours apart.

[Jillian]

Exactly.

[Julian]

And so the survivor describes him to law enforcement and they come up with a composite sketch. Now, that was all in 1998.

[Jillian]

Yes.

[Julian]

And nothing is happening with that case. We don't know that it's connected to the yogurt shot murders in any way. This is just like happening in 1998

[Jillian]

and like years, like this guy again is just on the loose.

[Julian]

And now when DNA advances, they're able to upload the DNA from 1998 into CODIS.

[Jillian]

Yes.

[Julian]

And they don't get a name, but they get yet another case from 1990 in South Carolina.

[Jillian]

So just to like, put a fine tooth dotted comb on it.

[Julian]

Perfect.

[Jillian]

Is the.

[Julian]

You better cross that J.

[Jillian]

Cross that J and dot that Z. Girl, I'm doing it right here.

[Julian]

I cross my Z's.

[Jillian]

You do. I cross my sevens.

[Julian]

Remember in Wayne's World, where he's like. Wayne's World 2, where he's like. Because Kevin Pollock, who I love, has like a weird, like, eye situation trying to get their permits for Wayne Stock. And they try not to say I, you know, they like. And they just keep saying I and they're embarrassing themselves. And he's like, you should. Yeah, we just want to cross our t's and dot our lowercase J's. So that's. That brought me right back.

[Jillian]

Well, just to put a point, just to connect the dots.

[Julian]

Yeah.

[Jillian]

These cases now are all connected between Tennessee, Missouri and South Carolina, which Genevieve

[Julian]

Zatricky was raped and murdered in her home. Just like very similar to all of these other stories. So they take the DNA and store it, quote, in the hopes that the signs will eventually catch up. So remember, that was in 1990. But now we have a serial killer on our hands. Yes, because we have South Carolina in 1990, Tennessee and Missouri the same night in 1998.

[Jillian]

And those cases are connected by the DNA and the shell casing of the gun. This is not yet connected to the yogurt shop murders. But these three cases are connected.

[Julian]

Right, so now it's 2013. The Memphis PD realizes that their sexual assault kit backlog is astronomical.

[Jillian]

6179 sexual assault kits that need to be tested.

[Julian]

Sitting there.

[Jillian]

Sitting there.

[Julian]

And so there was a rape from 1997 where the kit had not been processed. Once that was processed, they were in for a big surprise. And In May of 2017, a third CODIS hit matched the crimes in Greenville, South Carolina, and Portageville, Missouri.

[Jillian]

And it matches the other three crimes in South Carolina, Tennessee, and Missouri. So this is now a Memphis kit matching the other three kits still not yet connected to the yogurt shop.

[Julian]

But they have every. All of these kits now are handed to Cece Moore.

[Jillian]

Yes, because it's the same guy. So we gotta figure out who this guy is.

[Julian]

So she's gonna do her thing with genetic genealogy and she makes the tree and she starts finding people who can help ID this piece of shit. And his name is Robert Beshears.

[Jillian]

Yes.

[Julian]

And she's gonna start focusing on him. Now. This guy was already convicted of a violent crime in 1985.

[Jillian]

Yeah.

[Julian]

Where he attacked a woman in Florida, shot her, attempted to sexually assault her, but she got away. Right, but he was arrested and convicted. It was in the.

[Jillian]

I mean, this guy has been doing this for decades. And like, so. But then, remember that sketch that was made from that. That victim in Missouri?

[Julian]

Yeah.

[Jillian]

Cece goes. So she's got a name now. So she goes to the guy's daughter's Facebook page.

[Julian]

Facebook stalking his relative.

[Jillian]

Literally. There is a picture of this man wearing the same hat and the same sunglasses with the same beard as in the composite sketch from eight years ago.

[Julian]

It's like he posed for that composite sketch from that film.

[Jillian]

Literally.

[Julian]

It is. It is unbelievable.

[Jillian]

So the composite sketches sometimes aren't that great. This one was absolute. I mean, it looks like a picture of the guy.

[Julian]

Yeah, well, guess what? He's fucking dead. He killed himself in a police standoff in 1999.

[Jillian]

I screamed when I heard that. I was like, we found out who this guy is and we're not even going to get, like, he died thinking he got away with all of this. Yeah.

[Julian]

He was a full blown serial killer. Yes. And he probably killed other people and assaulted other people. No question. Right.

[Jillian]

I was like, they want to get a DNA to directly make sure that it's him.

[Julian]

Right.

[Jillian]

They dig this son of a bitch up. My favorite thing is, like, when we do, like, the Naming the Dead episodes and we talk about, like, the reverence with which they do these exhibitions. Not this fucking guy. They're out there with toy shovels, like, smoking cigarettes. Do it in the least respectful way possible.

[Julian]

I mean, what an asshole. Guess what. It's him.

[Jillian]

It's him.

[Julian]

So all three states make an announcement that it's him. Missouri, Tennessee, South Carolina. Yeah, but what about Texas? Like, how does this connect to the yogurt shop murder?

[Jillian]

It takes seven years for this guy to be connected to the yogurt shop murders.

[Julian]

From 20. Now it's 2025.

[Jillian]

Right. And this happened because of that manual search that Officer Dan had asked the states to do.

[Julian]

Right. And when he does that manual run through the system. This leads Detective Dan to everything we just told you.

[Jillian]

Y. We are now. We've now connected this piece of shit from the four crimes he did in those other states to the yogurt shot murders.

[Julian]

And they confirm 100% that this piece of shit's DNA is under Amy's fingernails.

[Jillian]

Yes.

[Julian]

So he did it and we fudgeing got him.

[Jillian]

Yes. We also learned here that like, this guy had been in the federal authorities files for decades. Yeah, like he would, like, he's in stolen cars all the time. They, they're like, they're, they're taking his gun and giving it back to him. Like he was in. But we just didn't have. We didn't have his name, we didn't have his DNA. Like there was no way to get him. But he'd been in the system for decades.

[Julian]

Yeah, he was always like, crossing state lines, moving all over the place. One of the things that really intrigued me when I was researching Robert Beshears was that he faked his own death. He had two obituaries that were almost 20 years apart. And so what I immediately thought was he was trying to hide from something. This was a guy who was trying to cover his tracks.

[Jillian]

This is insane. This guy faked his death in the 80s, like, after committing so many of these crimes just to, like, try to get away with it.

[Julian]

I have to tell you, in all of the years that we've done this, if you asked me quick, how do you fake your own death? I'd be like, I don't know.

[Jillian]

No, only Blanche Devereaux know. She did. I don't know how she walked into her own funeral. Big daddy gave her a whooping. I wasn't, I wasn't a big fan of that part. But Blanche telling the story of faking her own death just to see who would show up at her funeral, That's a good move.

[Julian]

You could do it back then.

[Jillian]

Yes. It's. It's a very Blanche Devereaux move.

[Julian]

Very. Just for the attention.

[Jillian]

Yeah. I'm kind of like, should I do that?

[Julian]

Yeah. Her beauty is also.

[Jillian]

Should I fake my own death just for like a week?

[Julian]

You couldn't.

[Jillian]

You're absolutely. I couldn't stay hidden for a week.

[Julian]

But like, I don't know, like, now I'd be like, I know cash is involved. I know you need a lot of cash.

[Jillian]

The thing is that you can't really fake your own death. You can. You can disappear. That is the thing. Like, you can either be disappeared or. And I actually spoke to a skip tracer who does it for free for women of. Who are domestic violence survivors. But even he was saying it was much, much easier to do to 20 years ago.

[Julian]

Sure.

[Jillian]

It's very hard to do that.

[Julian]

We're being watched right now. Not with these cameras. Hey, guys. Yeah, but at the end of the day, this guy's responsible for at least eight murders in four states. And it's super likely that there's more. So I'm like, okay, this is great, but we need to start exonerating people.

[Jillian]

Yes, yes, yes. So September 2025 in Austin. They hold a press conference to announce that the yogurt murders have been solved. They're going to exonerate the four boys. And it's funny because they're there. Three of them are there. And, like, they say their names at these press conferences and, like, these. It's. You almost even I expect them to have, like, a smile on their face for being exhausted. No. Like, they're so mad. I know, I know.

[Julian]

Like, just. Just to recap, two of them were falsely imprisoned for 10 years. The other two, everyone thinks they did it too.

[Jillian]

One of them was on death row.

[Julian]

One of them was on death row. And then the two of them that were in prison were released. What? Still living with the threat that they could be arrested and thrown there for something they didn't do at any moment.

[Jillian]

Living under the shadow. Like, everyone's like, well, they. They got out on a technicality probably, but they definitely did.

[Julian]

And also, Maurice and Forrest are living under the shadow. That same threat.

[Jillian]

Yes.

[Julian]

This is a life ruining situation.

[Jillian]

Yeah.

[Julian]

So. But Matt Murphy, I love the shade here. He's like, in a rare move. In a rare move, the current Austin police chief declares that the four men should be exonerated. The position of the Austin police department is Robert Brasher's is responsible for these murders. I'm like, it kills me that it's rare, but thanks for calling it out, Matt.

[Jillian]

And you know why the. You know why this particular police chief did it? She's a woman.

[Julian]

Yeah. And it's also, like, a lot of heats on this case now.

[Jillian]

Yes.

[Julian]

And Maurice Pierce died in 2010. He. He was the one who, like, was one of the creek people. He was 15. Like, who kind of. They started looking at first.

[Jillian]

Can we keep the creek people? I'm obsessed. I want a. I want a T shirt that says creek people.

[Julian]

I, like, support them.

[Jillian]

Yeah, same. I would have 100% hung out with the creek people. I would not have smoked pot with them because I didn't smoke pot in high school, but I would. They would have been my friends.

[Julian]

I would have popped a gummy with them.

[Jillian]

Totally.

[Julian]

I would definitely be Drinking beers.

[Jillian]

Yeah. The Creek people did the drama.

[Julian]

Justice for the Creek people.

[Jillian]

Justice for the creek people.

[Julian]

100%. I fully support them.

[Jillian]

Yeah.

[Julian]

But Maurice Pierce died in 2010 during an altercation with an awesome police officer. And I can't help but wonder.

[Jillian]

Yeah.

[Julian]

If this whole situation never happened to him, if he would still be alive. 100%, because I looked up what happened. They don't say what happened. Just, like, quickly, this was in 2010. Like, 20 years of being a suspect.

[Jillian]

Yes.

[Julian]

20 years of looking over your shoulder,

[Jillian]

and the cops all know who he is. Like, oh, let's. It doesn't matter if we kill that guy, because he's one of the yogurt shop guys.

[Julian]

And he was also in prison for three and a half years awaiting trial before it was starting.

[Jillian]

Yes.

[Julian]

So, like, 10 years after all of this stuff, he was pulled over and he fled the scene. I wonder why. Right, right. And so, like, when all of there was a physical fight and alleged. Allegedly, like, there was tasing or whatever, but, like, my opinion is that it's connected somehow.

[Jillian]

Yes, I agree.

[Julian]

Right. Anyway.

[Jillian]

And this daughter. Like, he's got a daughter who's an adult now, and she's on this. Like, it's just so fucking heartbreaking to me. Like, they say it quickly and they don't focus on it enough that after these boys are exonerated and the current DA is, like, looking them in the eye and saying, you are exonerated. You didn't do this. Their lives were ruined, and the lives of their families were ruined and the lives of their children were ruined, you know, and continued to. To be ruined to this day.

[Julian]

And it's like, okay.

[Jillian]

And there was no evidence. Like, there's no way that those cops can look back and be like, yeah, but there was this evidence, and it's that we knew the gun didn't match. We knew the DNA. There was no DNA. There was no fingerprints. Nothing matched these kids. It was clear that they didn't do it.

[Julian]

Yeah. There's no evidence. They recanted their confessions that you bullied out of them, Whether it's holding a gun to their head or lying to

[Jillian]

them about the movies or keeping them awake for 18 hours.

[Julian]

And so, like, at the. At the end of this, it's like, okay, so in 2025, after all of this time, have answers. We know who did it. The men are exonerated. But I'm like, at what cost?

[Jillian]

Yeah.

[Julian]

Like, this is a tragedy from top to bottom. Like, the killer's already dead. He probably committed other Crimes that we're not going to know anything about. Like, the girls suffered a fucking tragedy. They're never coming back. Like, everything is a mess. Like, countless lives ruined.

[Jillian]

Well, and I guess the question at the end of the day is, like, what did we learn? You know, can we at least, like, pull lessons from this and do better? Like, you would think that the embarrassment that the Austin police department had to suff in exonerating these guys would make them be better cops, right?

[Julian]

Yeah.

[Jillian]

You would hope that, like, we gotta do away with this Reid technique. You cannot be allowed to lie to suspects. That's number one. And in one of the episodes we did, we met a cop that was like, I never do that. In fact, I build a rapport and trust with the people that I'm interrogating

[Julian]

in the Dateline episode. The ruse.

[Jillian]

Yes.

[Julian]

Yes.

[Jillian]

How does that not seem like a better way? The lying to the suspect and saying the Rocky Horror wasn't playing when it was feels like such a cheap and easy way to try to trick a person into allowing a memory to be employed, implanted. Is that what we want? We should not be closing cases at any cost.

[Julian]

Yeah, it happens all the time. Yeah, but I'm so glad you asked that, because something they didn't mention that I learned. In 2022, President Biden signed the homicide victims families Rights act, which was written with this very case in mind.

[Jillian]

Oh, wow.

[Julian]

And so three. It says, three years after a case has gone cold, the law allows loved ones to have victims. Federal case file reviewed, a full reinvestigation will use the latest technology to hopefully dig up new leads.

[Jillian]

Wow.

[Julian]

So there was a lot of, like, you have to make sure that this. Your case, like, applies or whatever, but, like, it was written with this case in mind.

[Jillian]

Amazing.

[Julian]

So to your question, we did learn something a little bit.

[Jillian]

Yeah.

[Julian]

And 20 people voted no on it. And I'll. Which is insane. And I'll let you guess.

[Jillian]

Totally Elizabeth Warren. It was not.

[Julian]

Other side of the other. Other side of the street.

[Jillian]

Oh, my God, girl. All right. We did the yogurt shop murders from 2020.

[Julian]

Yes.

[Jillian]

Great episode. Very well done.

[Julian]

Yeah, fam.

[Jillian]

Don't forget, we've got a Facebook group. We've got a Discord channel. Get in there. Make friends. Interact with us. We want to hear from you. We go in there a lot. We ask, like, questions for after parties that we're recording. Like, we want to engage with you.

[Julian]

Yeah. You know, well, guess what we're doing next, girl. What? Maternal instinct on Netflix. And yes, brother, I will be doing an after party that is going to drop this the same exact day.

[Jillian]

Yes, because I know this girl is working. I said it last time, I'll say it again. She's doing. So just to be clear, we're going to drop an after party the same day that we drop our coverage of Maternal Instinct where Julian's going to tell us everything that was left out of the case. And then I'm going to start pulling my fucking weight around here.

[Julian]

Yeah, but we. I can't tell every single lie she's ever told.

[Jillian]

Of course.

[Julian]

Right. But I will say certain things that I think maybe paint a clear a picture. But much like the Mackenzie Shirley case, nothing is going to change your mind or make you be like, oh, right now, nothing. You know, like nothing in the killer cases episode with Mackenzie made me be like, well, wait, you're going to come to the same conclusion?

[Jillian]

Mackenzie Shirella, People have been screaming about

[Julian]

certain things that Netflix left out that they want to talk about. So we'll talk about it. Okay?

[Jillian]

All right. All right. Well, stay tuned for the trailer for that fam. And we love you.

[Julian]

We love you. Stay safe.

[Jillian]

Please, please do.

[Julian]

Call a lawyer.

[Jillian]

I was going to say it.

[Julian]

Call a lawyer.

[Jillian]

Call a lawyer.

[Julian]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Jillian]

Bye.

[Julian]

Love you. Bye. I haven't known tutor, but just a

[Jillian]

couple months, she hits me with. I'm pretty sure I'm pregnant.

[Julian]

Coming from a small town, you can trust easy. I just began to worry something's just not right.

[Jillian]

I said, did you go in with

[Julian]

her to the clinic? She said the doctor had an emergency or he couldn't meet us. So many things did not add up. I mean, they were buying cars, cattle. Someday she was going to be this millionaire. I mean, that's what she told us. All people see is this loving, happy relationship. Why would you not believe it? For a demon like her, hell would be easy.