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True Crime Obsessed
West Memphis 3 Update: With Gillian, Damien Echols, Lorri Davis, and "Truth And Justice" Podcast
00:40:46
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- [00:04]
Bob Ruff
Hey, everyone. Just surprising you in your podcast feed today.
- [00:07]
Lori Davis
Surprise.
- [00:08]
Bob Ruff
Yeah. So I'm just going to be like, short and sweet at the top here. So this is an episode. If you are a Truth and justice listener, with Bob Ruff, which I'm sure many of you are. This episode dropped on their feed yesterday. So everyone is always asking, what can we do about the West Memphis Three case? The DNA testing, We are going to explain it. It's me, Bob Ruff, Damien and Lori. The four of us got on. We recorded on a Sunday. It's like very, very, very important. It's been 32 years since, since Stevie Branch and Michael Moore and Christopher Byers were senselessly murdered. We have calls to action. We have things to do, and we explained it all to you. So I guess, like, without further ado.
- [00:42]
Damien Echols
Yeah, let's, let's. I haven't heard it yet, so I'm dying to hear it.
- [00:45]
Bob Ruff
It's so serious. We get so real.
- [00:46]
Damien Echols
Oh, my God. Really?
- [00:47]
Bob Ruff
Yeah. All right, let's do.
- [01:29]
Damien Echols
Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Truth and Justice. This week's episode is. Is a pretty special one, is pretty near and dear to my heart and I know to a lot of you guys, it's, it's. We're covering a case that we've been working on for. Gosh, I just. We were talking about before we hit record. It's been eight years that I've been working with Damien and Lori on the, on this case. Obviously it's the West Memphis three case. And we're recording this. So you guys are recording this on Sunday, May 4th. So you're, you're not going to hear this until the following Sunday, but we're a day away. For us, Tomorrow is the 32 year anniversary of the murders of Stevie Branch, Christopher Byers and Michael Moore. And we thought there's a lot going on. I know a lot of you have been waited, waiting with bated breath for the DNA testing that we've been working so hard to get done for literally years now. We're real close to the finish line, it feels like, but it also feels like it's a long ways away. And so we decided that this would be a perfect opportunity this week for us to talk about what's been going on, hear from Damian himself and Lori, Damien's wife, and give you guys an idea of what you can do to help. I know that's something that a lot of you have been asking me, especially in the, in the last few months. What can we do? Well, this is your opportunity and to Help us do that. We're joined by Gillian Pensivelli from the True Crime Obsessed podcast. He. Hey, Jillian, how are you?
- [02:54]
Bob Ruff
I'm doing wonderful, Bob. Thanks for having me. It's always nice to come to a family reunion, even if these are the circumstances.
- [03:00]
Damien Echols
Right, Right. And I guess while we're going around the horn, Lori, if you want to say hi to everyone.
- [03:06]
Lori Davis
Hey, everyone.
- [03:07]
Damien Echols
And we have Damien Echols here with us.
- [03:09]
Jillian Pensivelli
Hello, everyone. And I also just wanted to say thank you if you're still following this case after all these years. Like Bob just said, it's been 32 years now since these murders took place place, and a lot of you have been with us almost since the very beginning, and we don't take that for granted. We appreciate your presence and support in our lives very, very much.
- [03:31]
Damien Echols
Yeah. And, and Jillian, can you share a little bit about before we kind of get into the meat of this? Because, you know, you're, you're, you're always around with me every time I'm, you know, you, you were down in, down in West Memphis with us almost three years ago. Now.
- [03:44]
Bob Ruff
The test June, it'll be three years.
- [03:46]
Damien Echols
Yeah. And so if you explain you're, you're, you're not a truth and justice groupie. You have a real connection for a long time. So can you explain kind of your relationship with Damian and Laurie?
- [03:56]
Bob Ruff
Sure. Well, I am also just a fan. I know you and I are friends, Bob, but I'm also a big fan of you and what you do and what you're able to do, you and your listeners. There's a big crossover between truth and justice listeners and true crime obsessed listeners, which is great because we all just want to see shit get done. That's the main thing. So I have just been dear friends of Damian and Laurie since 2012, I think. And, yeah, we met soon after Damian was out of prison and we met and we just sort of became very, very close very quickly, I guess. I don't, I don't know, but I think that's it. And I've just been a dear friend of theirs, and I, I'm always saying, you know, what can I do? How can I help? Use me as a mouthpiece. I have this microphone. What can I do? And so there's been a lot over the years that have gone on behind the scenes and then some things that we bring publicly, Bob, as you know. And now is sort of the time to really rally for sure. This is it. This is it. This is kind of like this is the time I can't say it any other way, you know.
- [04:55]
Damien Echols
Yeah, absolutely. You know, the four of us have a group chat that we're, you know, talking about a lot of the behind the scenes stuff constantly. I remember sitting, I was, I was on a camping trip in October and stepping aside to, to talk to you guys because we just thought it was, it was finally happening. And we were preparing, like, how we were going to present that the DNA testing is finally happening. We finally have a prosecutor that's working with us and we're ready to go. And it just seems like we just keep running into one roadblock after another. I've shared a lot with my audience already about where we've come up to this point. I'm going to give a quick, quick overview of that. And then leading up to February 25, which was the day we thought that we were going to have the evidence sent out. And then we turn over to Lori to kind of talk about what's been going on since then. Because everyone's been kind of in the dark as far as what's been going on since then. So this kind of backtracks all the way to. Well, I mean, really, it was, it was 2017 when I, when I met Damian and Laurie and we started doing the Forgotten West Memphis 3, Season 5 of Truth and Justice. And the idea was to kind of breathe new life into the case. We called it the Forgotten West Memphis three because, you know, once, once Damian and Jason and Jesse were released from prison on the alford plea in 2011, you know, a lot of the public support kind of died down. But we never, we never got justice for Stevie, Michael and Christopher, and we never, we were never able to solve the case or, you know, fully clear, clear their names, you know, after being released. So we did the, the podcast, then I did the Forgotten West Memphis three docu series on Oxygen. And in that, through that process, you know, I kind of took it on thinking, well, we're going to solve this by getting boots on the ground and talking to all these people and learn the kind of, the same thing everybody else did. It's been too long. There's too many changing stories. There are too many motivating factors for people saying the things they're saying. It's not going to be solved through finding some witness. This case is only going to be solved through science, through testing evidence. So we, you know, we brought in Jim Clemente, former FBI profiler, we brought in people from pure Susanna Ryan, from Pure Gold Forensics, MVAC testing, and we looked into this new technology at Jim's recommendation. And we kind of made a plea at the end of the docu series for listeners to start putting pressure onto then District Attorney Scott Ellington to do this testing. Let's. Let's do some testing. She identified certain items that she really thought could reveal who finally who killed Stevie, Michael, and Christopher. And that. And y' all came to the call. You did it. The pressure worked. Ellington told us that he was willing to do it. Like, I've told this story before, but it got to the point where I was kind of playing go between and they were asking for FedEx account numbers for the lab to send the evidence. We thought it was going. Then Ellington found out that he was going to move up to this judgeship, and he ghosted us, just disappeared. Then came in Keith Cressman in his stead, who again, said he was going to do it. And then we had all the games we played. That's a whole. That's a whole episode in and of itself that we've already recorded where he said he would do it. Then he said, the evidence is gone. Then he said it was lost in a fire. All of you guys continued your support, and a lot of the old names that have been involved in this case came back out and kept fighting. We had Mara Leverett came out, started filing FOIA requests with the fire department. Damian, you guys, I believe, actually sued for them not responding until eventually that led to they found the evidence in the most unlikely place ever, which was in the evidence room, where it had been the entire time. So, you know, at that point, we thought we were good to go. And then that. That was. Now we're in, like, 2022. And then Cressman kind of pulled back and said, nope, you're going to have to file a motion. We're going to put it before a judge. Damian's team did that myself, Jillian, lots of you listeners, Damian, Lori, everybody, we all went down to go to this hearing that was another whole episode that we've already recorded when the horrific things they did to us when we were down there and everybody that came to support.
- [08:48]
Bob Ruff
And Bob, you raised money to have that expert there. Like, we were told it was going to be something else. And then they sort of pulled the rug out from under us there. But there was time and money and resources from our end that you and your listeners helped raise. And we were.
- [09:05]
Damien Echols
And that was the worst part, is we still had to spend it right. Like, we always had to pay her thousands of dollars for all of her time. And then she never Got to testify. Because at the end of the day, the judge then pulled the rug out from underneath us and said that, you know, she didn't have jurisdiction and she wasn't going to rule on it because Damien wasn't in prison anymore. That gets appealed all the way up the Arkansas Supreme Court, who ultimately says, nope, you absolutely do need to hear this case. They send it back. Then we have an election. Then we have the new prosecutor, Sonia Haygood. She gets elected, and she's a former defense attorney, was very defense minded, was able to meet with Damian, his team. Jason and his legal team got involved as well. And we were. We started moving forward and. And the testing was going to happen and even more testing than we had originally even hoped for. And that was where we were at. That was the phone call we had back in October. And then it was, you know, it's going to happen in December, it's going to happen in January, and then in February was. February 25th, was the day the order was going to be signed by the judge and the evidence was going to be shipped off. And we all thought by March, we're going to have the results and we're going to see if we can solve this thing once and for all. And on that day, like the night before, we got word somebody was sick in the office and there was going to be a delay and then nothing. Since then, at least it's been released publicly. So this is Lori. I'll kind of turn it over to you if you can talk about, like, what has been going on behind the scenes since February 25th.
- [10:49]
Lori Davis
Well, I'll start out with saying, first of all, I just want to say how absolutely amazing it is, Bob, to have you and Jillian on our team. I worked on this case for 13 years while Damian and Jason and Jesse were in prison. And at that point, we had an amazing team who worked on everything. Trust was everything. A lot of work to do, very stressful. And now to have you both and your followers and your teams working with us, I can't tell you how important and how amazing it is because you've had our back now for years. And Jillian, when you know, you say, yes, we got close immediately. You were one of the few people in that crazy time that I met and I immediately trusted, and our trust in the both of you has never wavered. So I just want to. I just want to say how important that is to us and for everyone out there listening to know how amazing these two people are to the justice system and to this case. And Bob Yes. I just want to go back a little bit and, and let everyone know that in the year that, since the Supreme Court, it's been over a year at this point, handed down their decision that this, that the DNA should be tested. The amount of work that the lawyers on this case, the Innocence Project, the DNA experts, everyone has come together pro bono working on this case. I can't tell you how many iterations of the order or which lab should we use. And we're working with Sonya Hagut through this whole process to work up this order that has to be signed before we can begin testing. Jason's attorneys came on board in the middle of the process. And so, and I'm, I'm glad that they did because everyone has to be on board. And then Jesse's attorneys came on board. So everyone is on board at this point after going through. It's been the, the amount, the amount of work no one even understands is staggering. The emails going back and forth. We have some of the best DNA experts and labs in the country who are willing to work with us. And while the order has yet to be signed, I know that the state, the prosecutor, you know, she's been on board throughout the process, and we've kept her updated on everything, and she's been great to work with. So why since February 25, there's been silence is. It's just, it's a mystery to all of us. And I'm hoping that we can get moving, like, right away. As Bob said, everyone involved was ready to meet on February 25 to go over the evidence, have it. They even had the courier lined up for it to be sent to the lab. The order was going to be signed before that happened. Everything was going to happen at once. And since then, what we do, what we have heard from Ms. Hay Goode is that she's still working on editing the order. That's the only thing, the only progress that we know that has happened. And we are, we all are still anticipating in good faith that this is going to happen. And that's all we know at the moment.
- [14:10]
Damien Echols
Yeah, and that's, that's not a long story, but it's, it's kind of a, it's a perplexing one because, you know, I know Jillian gets the same thing where it's, what's happening, what's happening, what's happening. And I want to be able to tell people, well, they're doing this or they're doing this, but it seems like there's just been kind of radio silence. We're just not. And I know, like Damian, you've been very frustrated with it. We've talked a lot about it. It just seems like the rug constantly keeps getting yanked out. So we really don't know much other than we've been told. Things are being edited. And while we're on the topic of Damien, you know, Damien, I know that we're, we're blessed to have you on the show because you don't, you don't like to do interviews. You don't. I, you know, I mentioned to my audience a while back, gosh, it was probably a year ago that, you know, you, you had told me that you're just like, I don't, I don't want to be famous anymore. I just want. I want to live my life. I don't want to be on tv. I don't. That's why, you know, Damian doesn't do a lot of interviews. But you're here today with us. So I want to give you the opportunity to talk about, like, why is this, why is all this so important to you that we finally get this done, that we get this testing done?
- [15:18]
Jillian Pensivelli
Well, you know, first I kind of want to echo a little bit of what Lori said just about, you know, you and Julian and what you just said about how I don't really do many interviews anymore. You know, I've, I've tried to as much as I possibly could. You know, there's always stuff hanging around, there's always reminders. But I've tried as much as I possibly could to kind of put this behind me and move on with my life. Because before you came onto this case, we had went through a period of time where I thought, there is no way in hell anything's ever going to happen in this case again. It's. It's done, it's closed. Me hanging on to it is just pointlessly torturing myself. You know, looking back and whenever you came onto this case, it kind of breathe new life into it and breathe new life into me. And it was like for the first time in years, I thought there's actually a real possibility that this case could finally be solved, that something could happen here. But I, you know, I don't. Part of the whole thing about not doing interviews and stuff anymore is my brain just doesn't work the way it used to. You know, when I was in prison, I had to do this stuff constantly. You know, I was doing interviews non stop just because I had to. I had to keep people's attention on the case. I couldn't Let it be forgotten, or I knew the same thing would happen then. That's kind of happening a little bit now. You know, what you're seeing happen in this case is almost like a miniature portrait of what we've seen over and over and over. You know, when I look back through. Through the years that I was in prison, there would be something happen every so often. You know, some break, like someone coming forward and admitting that they lied because they were forced by the police or something like that. And every time something like that would happen, you would think, this is it. Like, surely something's going to happen now. This is going to be the straw that broke the camel's back, and someone's going to step in and fix this. But it didn't happen. And, you know, even the same thing. I mean, look at whenever the initial DNA testing was done. You know, we got out in 2011. But, you know, after the initial DNA testing was done, we sat there for what, a year, two years, you know, years after the first DNA testing was done, you know, the DNA comes back, it doesn't match us. We're thinking, okay, slam dunk, we're going home. It's finally over. Yet more years pass. So we're seeing that kind of the same thing here. It's like, you know, like you said, we've got it done, down to the fact of them asking for FedEx numbers to ship the evidence to.
- [17:54]
Damien Echols
Right.
- [17:54]
Jillian Pensivelli
It's over. But once again, like you said, the rug pulled out from under you. So in a lot of ways, I've kind of had to build up calluses to this sort of thing just to keep from going absolutely crazy over this. You know, this. This is. This could be mental torture. And I imagine it is mental torture, like, to the families of the children that are involved in this, because this isn't just, you know, me. This isn't just Jason. This isn't just Jesse. This isn't just us on our team. This is everyone involved in this case. You know, this is the. The children themselves. You know, this. Finally we have the opportunity to bring justice to these kids, to show who murdered these children. Not only that, but to finally end this for their families. You know, just like it doesn't end for us. We keep having the rug ripped out from under us. The families are in that exact same position. I mean, imagine the way they feel, having to go through this over and over and over, seeing stuff like this happening, feeling like they're so close, and then finally. And then having it snatched away at the last minute. So I've kind of had to put a lot of distance between myself and the case just for those kinds of reasons. And, you know, the, the only way that I would do something like this now, even like go back into this world and talk about this stuff again, honest to God, is with you and Jillian. That is it. Period. You know what, doing this, it's like doing it with family, it's like doing it with friends. It's doing it with people that, you know, aren't doing this just for sensationalistic reasons. It's, it's done out of love and it's done out out of a true desire to finally see justice brought about in this case for everyone involved. And I feel like I'm rambling on a little bit, so I'm going to shut up. But once, I just want to say, you know, again, thank you for, for keeping the spotlight on this and for not letting it die out. Because if not for you coming on this, it probably would have died out, died off completely.
- [19:54]
Damien Echols
I, I just thought of this as you were talking, and it's a question I don't think I've ever asked you. If this DNA testing gets done, when it gets done, I'm speaking life into it when it gets done. And, and I believe it's going to reveal who the true killer is, is. And hope to God that they get arrested, convicted, your guys, names are cleared. What is, how is, what will your life be like? Have you thought about how is that going to change things in your life? And the reason I say that is because you have. Since I've known you, since we've become friends, over the years, you've always told me that, like, you can't live in that world. You do your best and you've done an amazing job of trying to just live your life outside of this case. And I see all the time people, all the naysayers and somebody talking about what's motivating you and what they think. This, that, that, and, and honestly, I've never even thought about what's motivating you other than just wanting the truth to be revealed and for things to be over. So have you thought about, like, how will this change your life? What will be different for you if this case is solved?
- [21:03]
Jillian Pensivelli
You know, that's kind of an interesting question, and I didn't even realize this until you asked that just now, but I haven't, like, I have no idea. And, and really it's something that I haven't put a great deal of thought into. You know, it's like, one of the things you learn in prison is. Is to not look too far into the future. You're constantly looking towards what you hope is going to happen or what you fear is going to happen, or, you know, whatever it is, something that's not happening right here and now, you are going to live a life of anxiety and torture. So I really have, for the most part, just been taking it one step at a time, one day at a time. And I kind of do the same thing out here. I learned a lot in prison, you know, a lot of stuff that really kind of saved my life. And one of those things was that you have to create a world for yourself and a life for yourself right, right here and now. Something that you can completely immerse yourself into and pour yourself into and focus on that with every bit of intensity you have. In order to keep from looking forward at what you hope's coming or what you fear might not come, or from looking back at, you know, what was done to you, what you've been through, all of that kind of stuff, you have to find something to pour yourself into in the present moment and. And let it completely consume me. And for the most part, that's how I survived back then, and it's kind of how I survive now. I really have not put a great deal of thought. It's almost been abstract. You know, it feels like something that has to be done, but it's more about just putting one foot in front of the other, getting, you know, one day ahead. I haven't really thought about what it would look like for this to finally. In a way, it's almost like I can't even conceive it. You know, this has been part of my Life for over 30 years, so it's. It's kind of hard to picture, you know, any concept of. Of what it would look like for this to finally be over.
- [23:22]
Damien Echols
Like I said, it kind of just occurred to me during our discussion here, too, and. And what it just kind of, I thought was, you've done such a good job of living your life and building this life with Lori and. And everything you're doing that almost feels like what it would just be, is just like a monkey off your back, like a thing that's been dragging you down, that's just not dragging you down anymore, and then you just continue to thrive.
- [23:44]
Jillian Pensivelli
Yes, absolutely. And, I mean, there's little things that I think about every now and then that would be really great to be able to experience in this life that I can't right now, you know, like, one of the things that really also breathed life into me in prison was being able to train with a Zen master from Japan, Shoto Harada Roshi. He's the head abbot of this 300 year old temple in Japan. He used to fly back and forth from Japan to prison to visit me in Arkansas. And he's in his 80s now. You know, this is not a young man anymore. I think he's like 83, 84 now. Who knows how much longer he has left? I would very much like before this man dies, to be able to go over to Japan and visit the temple where he is now. I'm not able to do that because I have a criminal record. Same way. One of the things I was talking about, like pouring myself into one of those things is, is Tang Soo do, which is Korean karate. I would very, very much at some point in my life, like to be able to visit South Korea and visit, you know, some of the places and the training grounds where this stuff originated from, like the birthplace of it. I can't do that because I have a criminal record. So I do think of little bitty things like that every now and then. Yeah, I would like to be able to experience that. I can't until this is finally done. But that's as close as I've come to, like a big picture. But it really is, I guess it would be like you're saying just kind of something you don't. It would be nice to never have to think about a legal brief again for the rest of my life.
- [25:20]
Damien Echols
Right? I bet, yeah.
- [25:22]
Bob Ruff
But Bob, what you were saying about like, just having this monkey off your back, like the beginning of our friendship, for years we didn't talk about the case at all. That's not how our friendship. I mean, I. We met because I think there. There was an. An art show of Damien's that I went to, but we didn't talk about. We went out to dinner that night. Like it was like that, like instant. And we didn't talk about the case the way we do now because now it's different. Now it's time for action. But for years we would, you know, stay the weekend in Salem or, or just go bowling, go to the movies, go to fun restaurants. And it was always sort of there. Like it wasn't the basis of our friendship.
- [26:00]
Lori Davis
And it was.
- [26:01]
Bob Ruff
If they needed. If you guys needed my help, of course I would be there. I would be asking for what we could do. But it wasn't like we were talking about the case all the Time, but it's always there. And the tragedy of it is always there, and the frustration of the legal briefs and all of that is always there. So I just think it would be nice to be able to go visit you and go out to lunch and not have maybe an email appear or like, just sort of live for real knowing that justice was served and we got to the bottom of who killed those three boys and put an end to this. Like, I just. I always hear Eddie Vedder's voice in my head, like, there's gotta be a happy ending to this. There's just gotta be a happy ending to this.
- [26:38]
Lori Davis
Well, I mean, and I have to say, Damien, you know, and I know everyone who's been involved in this case has experienced it in a different way. The victim's families, Jesse, Jason. But my experience has been with Damien. So that's what I can speak to. Not back when he was 18, but for, you know, Damian turned 50 this year. So from 18 years old to 50, this has been his life. And to be able to live the rest of his life without people out there, you know, saying that he's guilty or getting phone calls in the middle of the night or horrible emails or having to look at his Instagram feed and seeing, you know, it's just that has been a part of his life since I've. Well, since he's been out. But just the trauma of all of this has been with him since I've known him. So what I think would be important for everyone involved, for the state of Arkansas, for all the state officials, for all the victims families, for the victims themselves, may they rest in peace after this, and for Damian, Jesse and Jason is to start the process of healing. And that's what this DNA testing would do. And to be able to move into a whole other period of time where we're healing from this, rather than it's this constant source of anger and pain and sadness.
- [28:06]
Damien Echols
It's time, and that has to be. And Laurie, since I've known you, you've always been worried about everyone else. That's kind of. That's. That's always been your. You're always, you know, taking care of things. But how do you. How is it going to change for you? Because there's got to be some healing on your part, too. Like, this has been like, you're. You're a big part of your life's mission for a long time, Many, many, many years now. Have you thought about what life looks like after. After the testing is done and we prove who actually did this.
- [28:37]
Lori Davis
I mean, it's just going to be a source of relief. And as horrible as murder is in crime, and of course, you know, there's a. There is. We are going to find the perpetrator. There's a lot of. Still a lot of really bad stuff about this story, but I think that relief of finally being able to move into another stage of life with Damien, it's like really, truly free life. Yeah, we haven't had that ever. I think that's going to be kind of incredible for this next chapter for us. And thank you for asking me, Bob, but, you know, it's. It's. I have to say it's been a privilege to be able to work on this case.
- [29:19]
Damien Echols
So you have to take up another hobby now. You gotta go down to the dojo with Damien.
- [29:27]
Lori Davis
Hey, that's what. Actually, that's what's been happening. So.
- [29:30]
Damien Echols
Yeah. All right, so that, that brings us to kind of our main point here is to answer the question that listeners have been asking for months and months is what can we do to help? And for that, I'm going to turn this over to Jillian. Jillian is a rock star in all this. She's not only obviously been connected with the four of us, but also she, she's, you know, stays in contact with the, with the attorneys and, and other people connected with the case. So, Jillian, how can the listeners help?
- [29:56]
Bob Ruff
So the big thing is asking. So Sonia Haygood, the prosecutor, has been very supportive, very much on our side. And as an elected official, you know, we have every right to call and ask nicely, always nicely. Everyone, like, I know this is. It makes. It's enraging, it's infuriating and it's heartbreaking. And I understand where all those emotions are. I live in them with you. But we're not going to get anything done just yet if we pick up the phone and start yelling at people. That's not how anything gets done, Bob, you know, or, you know, everyone here knows. So I've been calling Sonia Haygood, which has been a little bit difficult, if I'm going to be honest, because some of the numbers online, like, I can't tell you. Google Sonia, hey, good. And go to the website that comes up and click that link or call that phone number because for whatever reason, and I, I have no idea. I don't have a theory. I don't know why, but a lot of the numbers are dead or outdated or they don't lead you anywhere. So I had to call around and get her two phone numbers. So her office number is 870-819-2500. That's her office. And I've been calling and just asking nicely if we can have an update on this or calling to voice my support that people still want this done and not sort of holding anyone to task for anything. I know she's busy. The thing about Sonia Haygood, which I think is so relevant to this case, is so many other cases that she has worked on is getting justice for kids. She works with, you know, child abusers and people who are. Are just evil monsters. But so much of what she does is about justice for kids. So whenever I see the cases she's working on and I know she's busy. Cause she's always. She's in the news. A lot of things that she's doing, it's like, sonia, this is, you know that we just need this signed. We just need this order to be done. The other number is 870-919-1021. You can. That's her. They call it the office cell. So you can text that, you can call that. I've left messages. I think it's really important that people in Arkansas call as well to say, this is my home. This is, you know, I voted for you, or this is where I live. This is really important to her constituents. But I'm not married to that. You know, you don't have to be an. I'm calling from New York regularly. And again, like, I think it's really important to say that we're here right now, today to just get to the bottom of it. Stay curious, be nice, be kind. Nothing ever comes of someone calling and trying to, you know, give someone a dressing down or yelling. We all know that. We've all been working on things like this for quite some time. So because it is genuine, we do want to just get to the bottom of this.
- [32:47]
Damien Echols
Right?
- [32:48]
Bob Ruff
So it is real, you know, But I know. I know it's enraging, and I know it's infuriating, and I know it's been going on for so long, and I know we're all tired. I totally understand that. I just urge you strongly to be very mindful of how you're communicating that to someone who has been on our side and has been very supportive. And just maybe we just want to figure out why. We just want this signed. That's it for everyone. You know, be a hero, get to the bottom of it, be the one who sent the order to get the testing done, and then we can get justice for those Boys and start healing for everyone. So that's. That's what I. I urge everyone to do.
- [33:27]
Damien Echols
Yeah. And we'll. We'll have down, in the description of this episode, both of those numbers, the regular number, and then the office cell, which can be called ORT or you can send a text message to it. And it's like Gillian just said, like, this, this case has been a need. There's been so many heroes along the way, but we need. We've been in desperate need of the big, you know, the big hero to save the day, you know, and I.
- [33:48]
Bob Ruff
Couldn'T believe when I was putting Sonia Hagut's numbers in my phone that like all of the other Arkansas numbers, like, there's Scott Ellington's number, there's Keith Cressman's number. Like, how many prosecutor's office have we had to call over the years to ask the same exact number question? It's crazy that I have so many. This is the third prosecutor's phone number I have in my phone.
- [34:10]
Damien Echols
Yeah. And that. And also, as far as the tone, like Jillian said, when you, when you called, remember that this is not Scott Ellington re. Emailing or calling or texting right now. This is. This is not somebody that's been fighting against us the whole time. I think the four of us all have the consensus agreement that Sonia Haygood is a good prosecutor and is on our side and is trying to do the right thing. We don't really. A big part of it is we don't know. We don't know what's holding it up. And so that's what we're kind of inquiring about. But keep that in mind when you send those, Those. Those messages. But sometimes we're hoping all it takes is just a reminder like, okay, oh, there's. There's. There's thousands of people out there that are. That are still paying attention and waiting with bated breath. Aside from the people directly involved, Damien and Jason and. And Jesse and their families and Stevie, Michael and Christopher, their. Their families. Aside from that, that there are people all over the world right now that are just, you know, waiting for this thing to finally, finally be over.
- [35:09]
Bob Ruff
And say where you're from, if you're local, say you're local. If you're not, say, I've been following this case and I'm across the world or wherever. I think that's important. Especially if you're in Arkansas.
- [35:19]
Damien Echols
Yeah, absolutely. And with that being said, you know, we said for beginning this, we were going to make this a big, long marathon we wanted to get in and answer everybody's questions. And of course, the big question, what can we do to help? And that's what you can do to help. So thank you all for, for coming on and joining me on, on this call. And for all you listening, look down the description of this episode. Those numbers are there. And, and let our voices be heard. With that being said, we'll talk to you guys a little bit more about this on this week's Friday follow up. Bye, everybody.
- [35:46]
Bob Ruff
Bye, everyone. Thank you so much for listening and we just need your help. Thank you so much and thanks, Bob, as always.
- [35:53]
Lori Davis
Bye bye, everyone. Once. Yes, absolutely. Thank you all for your support. It's. It means everything and always has. And Bob and Jillian love you both so much.
- [36:04]
Bob Ruff
Love you.
- [36:05]
Lori Davis
And of course you too, Damian.
- [36:07]
Jillian Pensivelli
And I just want to say that, you know, the only reason that I'm sitting here doing this right now and that I'm not dead is because of the support that people have given to us and to this case over the years. You're the reason I'm still here. Your voice is the only thing, for the most part, that these people have cared about. So thank you for sticking with us through all of this time. You know, I know some of you, like I said, have been with us for decades on this. We don't take that for granted. I also just want to thank Bob for, you know, doing everything you've done through the years to, to get us one more first down, to finally get a chance to bring this entire thing home, you know, see it closed in every way possible. Thank you so much for, for not wavering in that, for. For continuing to do it. Thank you to Jillian for being my security blanket, you know, even doing these, these interviews like this. She's been family ever since we've known her and I don't think I could do stuff like this anymore without you being here. And for Lori, who is, you know, the person that I've learned everything that I know in life from and the reason that I survived everything that I did. I just want to say that I appreciate all of y' all. Yeah.
- [37:29]
Damien Echols
Truth and justice is an NBI Studios production co written and produced by Erica Burgenham. Music for season 15 is created and composed by Kaden Ladislaw. Follow up episodes are co hosted by Janet Varney and Zach Weber. Our logo font was created by Tate Krupa of Red Swan Graphic Design. Our website is created, managed and maintained by Katie Ross of createdintandom.com. thank you to our volunteer transcription team Erica Kanter, Kathy McElhinney, Courtney Wimberley, Kate Wood Yomnick, Danielle Rohrer, Jennifer Athey and Caroline Dwyer. Truth and justice provides all investigators and advocacy work for the wrongfully convicted completely free of charge. We're able to do that in large part thanks to you, our listeners, through your generous pledges on Patreon. Patreon accounts for the overwhelming majority of our funding. The number one way you can support our work is to become a patron@patreon.com TruthAndJustice for just $5 a month, you'll get all episodes ad free, a bonus pregame episode every Wednesday and also a video video version of the Friday follow ups exclusive to our patrons. Patrons also get to participate and join the chat live in many of our interviews and get early access to much of our content. Just go to patreon.com truthandjustice to sign up. You can also help us out by going to itunes and leaving us a five star rating and review. Doesn't cost you a penny and goes a long way towards making the show more visible. If you have a new case that you'd like us to consider, you can submit your cases on our website truthandjusticepod.com just click on the case submission button and fill out the form. You can always keep in touch with us through our email@theories truthandjusticepod.com you can like our Facebook page or join in on the conversation on the official Truth and Justice podcast fans page. You can also connect with us on social media platform X at TruthJusticePod and to follow our personal accounts on social media, I can be found at Bob Rough Truth, Janet can be found at at Janet Varney and Zach is at Z to the Q. However you do it, stay engaged and stay in touch. But as for now, we're signing off. I'm Bob Ruff. I'm Zach Weaver. And I'm Janet Varney and this has been Truth and Justice.
- [39:42]
Bob Ruff
Okay, there you go everyone. Nicely, nicely. Yes, call Sonia Haga.
- [39:47]
Jillian Pensivelli
Hang on.
- [39:47]
Damien Echols
Tell them one more time why that's so important.
- [39:49]
Bob Ruff
Yeah, and we definitely got into that in the episode. But like you get more bees with honey. I like I said I understand your frustration. I feel it. But Sonia has been on our side. She's been very supportive. We just kind of need answers. That's it. And the boys need answers and we just need to, for the families, like we just need to put this to bed. So here are the numbers. One more time, we're going to put them in the show notes. Her office is 870-819-2500. And her office cell, which they call it, you can text or call this number. It's 870-919-1021. So help us out. Again, especially if you're in Arkansas, that's really important. But when you call, like, say, where you're from, this is a worldwide thing. We need. We need to get to the bottom of the truth. So thank you, everyone, for listening. And, yeah, we love you. We love you.
- [40:33]
Damien Echols
And you have your marching orders.
- [40:34]
Bob Ruff
Yes, Nicely, nicely. Just call.
- [40:36]
Damien Echols
Kind marching orders.
- [40:38]
Jillian Pensivelli
Yes.
- [40:38]
Bob Ruff
Just, like, call from a place of curiosity, because that's what it is. It's genuine curiosity. Yes. That's all.
- [40:42]
Damien Echols
All right. Bye.
- [40:43]
Bob Ruff
Bye. We love you. Thank.
- [40:46]
Lori Davis
You.