Killer Ouija Board

Summary

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True Weird Stuff – “Killer Ouija Board”

Podcast: True Weird Stuff
Hosts: Sherry Lynch, Carrie Bowser
Episode Date: March 28, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this gripping episode, Sherry Lynch and Carrie Bowser unravel the bizarre true story of a family scandal and murder that shocked Depression-era America. At the center is the infamous “Ouija board murder” of Ernest Turley in 1933, where the mystical board became both a prop in a family’s dysfunction and the focus of a sensational court case. The episode explores the troubled lives of Dorothea Turley, formerly the media darling “American Venus,” and her daughter Maddie, weaving in the origins of spiritualism and the cultural status of the Ouija board.

With keen storytelling, layered history, and sharp commentary, the hosts analyze manipulation, family dysfunction, and the American fascination with both the supernatural and scandal, all while reflecting on how a parlor game became the centerpiece of an unimaginable crime.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Origins of Spiritualism and the Ouija Board

• The Fox Sisters’ Hoax:
  • Spiritualism was born from the 1842 prank of Maggie and Kate Fox, who convinced many they could contact spirits via mysterious knocks. Even after confessing to the hoax in 1888, belief in spiritualism persisted because “hope, once unleashed—even fraudulent hope—is something desperate people don’t easily give up.” (Sherry Lynch, 06:03)
• From Spirit Communication to Parlor Game:
  • Charles Kennard commercialized the “talking board,” later patented as the Ouija board by Helen Peters and Elijah Bond. It was marketed as both a novelty and a spiritual tool, and its actual mechanism—a mystery—let users project responsibility onto “the spirits.”
  • The Ouija board “outsold Monopoly” (Sherry Lynch, 10:14), becoming an iconic pop culture artifact.

Dorothea Turley: The American Venus

• Beauty and Identity:
  • Dorothea’s rise as “America’s Venus” after winning a widely-publicized body measurement contest embodies early 20th-century obsessions with physical ideals and odd health fads (e.g., the collegiate posture-measuring craze).
  • Fame was fleeting; the contrast between Dorothea’s celebrated youth and isolated adulthood sets the psychological stage for the tragedy.

The Murder at the Heart of the Story (24:28–34:34)

Leading Up to the Crime

• Isolation and Discontent:
  • Relocating from Boston to rural Arizona for health and financial reasons, Dorothea becomes bored and unhappy, longing for her lost status and excitement.
• Ouija Obsession and Manipulation:
  • Dorothea and her teenage daughter Maddie frequently consult the Ouija board, even for practical problems (e.g., asking where to dig for gold).
  • Family tensions escalate, and “the board” increasingly becomes Dorothea’s voice of authority—even, ultimately, in matters of life and death.

The Shooting Incident (25:48)

• The Scene: A disrupted night by a skunk, followed by Dorothea and her son leaving Maddie alone with her father, Ernest.
• The Crime: Maddie fatally shoots Ernest in the back with a shotgun, initially claiming accident, then confessing after gentle questioning by Sheriff Hawes that she was compelled by her mother—and the Ouija board’s direction.

The Confession and Motive (28:53–30:31)

• Maddie's Account:

  "Mother asked the Ouija board, shall we kill father? And the pointer moved to yes. Mother asked who should do the killing, and the pointer spelled out my name. Mother said that I must not refuse to follow the command of the Ouija or I would suffer terribly."
  — Maddie Turley (28:53)

• Maddie describes feeling pressured by her mother’s wishes to be with another man, Kent Pierce, and recounts that even life insurance payout amounts were determined by the board.

Legal Aftermath and Cultural Impact

Trials and Strange Legal Questions (32:34–36:23)

• The case reached the Arizona Supreme Court, raising the incredible question:

  “Can a Ouija board think and act by itself, or may it be influenced by human hands?” (Narrator, 32:57)

• Dorothea’s defense blamed rebelliousness in Maddie, but her conviction was overturned on procedural errors. No retrial ever took place; the family was irreparably shattered.

Speculation, Sympathy, and Social Commentary

• On Manipulation:
  The hosts draw parallels between the manipulation in this case and other familial crime stories. Sherry argues Dorothea’s “most evil act” was persuading her child to kill:

  “She did one of the most evil things I can imagine. She manipulated her child into killing her father. That's evil.” (Sherry Lynch, 45:23)

• On Societal Judgment:
  The hosts reflect on how Dorothea continued to play the victim even after her release, blaming others for the family’s unraveling rather than her own actions.
• Cultural Relevance of the Ouija Board:
  Despite being marketed as a toy, the Ouija board’s mystique and perceived danger endure:

  "You can ask 10 people, and at least three of those 10 will tell you that it's demonic and they won't allow it in their house. Like, it has quite the reputation." (Sherry Lynch, 40:45)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Spiritualism’s Enduring Appeal:

  “Hope, once unleashed—even fraudulent hope—is something desperate people don’t easily give up.”
  — Sherry Lynch (06:03)

• On Early 20th-Century America’s Fixations:

  “Women had cast off the corsets and bustles of the Victorian era, only to find themselves being judged by a new Beauty Standard, a 2nd century BC marble statue of the Greek goddess Aphrodite. ... This sparked a mad hunt for scoliosis.”
  — Sherry Lynch (13:11)

• On the Board’s Power:

  “Mother said that I must not refuse to follow the command of the Ouija or I would suffer terribly.”
  — Maddie Turley (28:53)

• Maddie’s Motivation:

  “I was nervous to pull the trigger. But then I remembered how important it was to Mother for her to marry her handsome cowboy.”
  — Maddie Turley (29:55)

• On Why Dorothea Used Her Daughter as the Killer:

  “She didn't want Kent [Pierce] to pull that trigger, he'd have been hanged. ... She did one of the most evil things I can imagine. She manipulated her child into killing her father.”
  — Sherry Lynch (45:23, 74:11)

• On Fame and Identity:

  “It's a little bit hard to go back to the farm after that, isn't it?”
  — Sherry Lynch, on Dorothea’s fall from fame (57:11)

• Broad social commentary:

  “If you’re unhappy in your marriage, murder’s not the answer. If you’re in love with a sexy cowboy from down the road, murder’s not the answer. And the idea of turning your kid into the killer—girl.”
  — Sherry Lynch (81:32)

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Important Timestamps

• [03:08] — Background on the Fox Sisters and the birth of spiritualism
• [07:27] — Commercial evolution of the Ouija board
• [13:11] — The “American Venus” beauty contest and health fads
• [17:02] — Dorothea’s character and youth
• [24:28] — Transition to the notorious killing on the Turley ranch
• [28:53] — Maddie’s confession and the central role of the Ouija board
• [32:34] — The case reaches the Arizona Supreme Court
• [40:45] — Discussion on the cultural persistence of the Ouija board’s reputation
• [45:23] — Analysis of Dorothea’s manipulation and responsibility
• [52:21] — Sympathetic reflections on the victims, especially unnoticed David Turley
• [77:04] — Forensic mistake and how the case was solved
• [81:32] — Lessons and dark humor about murder not being a solution to marital problems

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Host Analysis and Final Theories

• On Motives and Outcomes:
  The hosts are unequivocal in their interpretation: Dorothea, unable or unwilling to commit murder herself, cruelly manipulated her 15-year-old daughter into becoming the executioner. Dorothea is painted as the clear “villain” (71:01).

• Cultural Legacy:
  This case, they argue, endures because of its singular blend of American mythmaking: tabloid beauty, the allure of the supernatural, family dysfunction—a story that feels at once lurid, tragic, and deeply modern in its psychology.

• Reflection on Justice:
  Despite the notoriety, no one really “got away with murder.” The cost—family obliteration and public disgrace—was comprehensive. As Sherry concludes, “There was no real justice for Ernest Turley” (36:23).

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Final Thoughts:

“Killer Ouija Board” is a compelling dive into the darkness that can grow from boredom, manipulation, and misplaced belief, as well as an American tale of how fantasy and reality sometimes collide—with fatal results.

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For more on this story and bonus content, visit trueweirdstuff.com.

Transcript

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[Sherry Lynch]

Hey, true weirdos, I hope you know how much all of us here appreciate you. You are the people we're making this show for, and your feedback means the world to us. We were so blown away for this show to win as many awards as it has. I mean, at this point, we're working for hardware and handouts, but at the end of the day, it's you people will walk up to us on the street. I had a guy wave at me wearing a True Weird Stuff T shirt at the park. It just is the coolest thing. And that's 100% you. And thank you.

[Carrie Bowser]

And we're just covering costs to be able to present this to you. We're not really making any money with it, so if you could do us a favor and patronize any sponsors that you hear throughout the show, that would be great. Also, just go on whatever platform you listen to it and please rate and review it. It really helps us in getting discovered. And if you have a suggestion for anything, just reach out to us at our website, trueweirdstuff.com and thank you so much for listening.

[Sherry Lynch]

A talking board. That's what the spiritualists called them. It was just a piece of wood with letters and numbers painted or printed on it. The user placed his or her fingers on a sliding pointer called a planchette and then waited for the dead to speak.

[Narrator/Actor]

The Arizona Supreme Court will rule on some of the strangest questions ever put to any high tribunal. Can a Ouija board think and act for itself? Or may it be influenced by human hands?

[Sherry Lynch]

A man was dead, his wife was on trial, and his teenage daughter was in custody. Was it a diabolical plot hatched by an unhappy wife and carried out by an unwitting child? Or was it all just a terrible accident?

[Carrie Bowser]

We it's just a game, isn't it? Isn't it?

[Sherry Lynch]

Well, isn't it? And make out a small beam of light against the mirror.

[Carrie Bowser]

True weird stuff.

[Sherry Lynch]

The whole spiritualism movement was born in 1842 from a prank played by a pair of sisters in upstate New York. Maggie and Kate Fox claimed that their home was haunted by a spirit and that they could communicate with this mysterious entity. The spirit, the girl said, spoke by knocking on walls and furniture. Their mother, Mrs. Fox, became a believer after asking this spirit how many children she had had. To her amazement, the spirit rapped out the correct number and it all might have ended right there. People are often hesitant to admit to believing in ghosts, but the Foxes did believe. Maggie and Kate were packed off to Rochester to stay with their mother's sister until something could be done about the haunting. Trouble was, the spirit apparently followed the girls to Rochester and the odd knocking noises started up all over again. Their aunt had neighbors who were very intrigued by the phenomenon. Not just any neighbors, but but a couple of radical Quakers named Amy and Isaac Post. The Post shared what was happening to the Fox sisters with their Quaker friends, who also very much believed. These Quakers became the core of the Spiritualist movement and Maggie and Kate became famous mediums. Suspicion dogged them almost from the start, though. Handful of preachers along with a prominent doctor, all called B.S. on it. In 1851, a friend of the Fox family came forward and admitted to secretly helping the sisters fake the spirit sounds. But by this point, the whole Spiritualism movement had pretty much gotten too big to be taken down. The deep grief that hung over this entire country in the years following the Civil War left millions of people in mourning, desperate for any sign from their lost loved ones. People yearned for peace and for closure, and they were willing to believe almost anything to get there. Even Maggie coming forward in 1888 with a full confession as to how she and her sister had made the whole thing up and faked every noise. Even that wasn't enough to turn people away from Spiritualism.

[Narrator/Actor]

The once celebrated Fox sisters, who are the patentees of medical spiritualism, appeared Saturday night at the Academy of Music to expose the frauds of spiritualism. Mrs. Margaretta Fox Kane read a lecture in a faltering voice and produced famous rapping so that they were plainly audible by the movement of her big toe joint. She thanked God that she was able to expose Spiritualism.

[Sherry Lynch]

Not that it made a bit of difference, because hope once unleashed even fraudulent hope is something desperate people don't easily give up. In those days, it felt like the whole country was near strangled by grief. As many as three quarters of a million lost their lives during the Civil War. The expected military casualties, plus the horrific loss of life due to disease, both soldiers and civilians. People were desperate to make a connection with the dead, not just for comfort But. But because folks were starved for meaning, all this death, was there any kind of greater purpose that could justify the blood that had been spilled in this land?

[Grainger Advertiser (Male)]

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[Sherry Lynch]

With spiritualism, the Fox sisters had set in motion something even they couldn't stop. And listen. Just because they admitted to faking it, it doesn't mean the spirit world doesn't exist. There's no gotcha moment here. While Maggie and Kate Fox's claims were in genuine, they genuinely did inspire something that most of us have probably played with at least once. The Ouija board. It was an entrepreneurial guy by the name of Charles Kennard who first had the idea to turn the spiritualists talking boards into a sort of a game. Kennard was a fertilizer salesman who'd managed to develop his own fertilizer recipe. Business was good. Then came a drought, and that, combined with his existing debt, forced Kenard to find something new to sell. The newspapers of the day were filled with stories of seances and mediums and talking boards. Just a simple plank of wood. Paint it with the numbers 0 through 10 and the words yes, no, and goodbye. A simple product, cheap to produce, and if you think about it, a perfect product in so many ways. Because whether or not it worked was entirely on the user. Spirits don't want to talk to you, ma'.

[Dorothea Turley]

Am.

[Sherry Lynch]

That's too bad. But it's not the board's fault. Kennard kept an office in Chestertown, Maryland, and just down the hall was a gentleman named E.C. reich, a Prussian immigrant. Reich was a furniture maker who also made coffins and served as an undertaker. The two men partnered up and made about a dozen talking boards, and Kennard began talking them up. It was a little bit of a lark for Reich, who had plenty of business dispatching the dead. But Kennard had bigger ambitions. He left Chestertown for Baltimore, convinced that his talking boards were a winning idea. He did struggle to find investors. But there was one man in Baltimore willing to listen. A lawyer named Elijah Bond, whose sister was a spiritual medium. Her name was Helen Peters, and she helped convince The United States Patent Office that the board would deliver as promised. No small thing, considering that what the board promised to deliver were messages from beyond the grave. And it was also Helen Peters who gave the board the name we call it today. What are you called? Tell me your name. Helen's fingers barely touched the planchette as it moved eerily across the wooden surface.

[Carrie Bowser]

O U I J A Ouija.

[Sherry Lynch]

It means good luck. And that's how a hustling fertilizer salesman and an undertaker patented the world's only board game that doubles as an oracle to the unseen world beyond this mortal coil. Only the Ouija board itself could have predicted that it would outsell monopoly because absolutely no one else saw that coming. Millions of Ouija boards have been sold and they're still selling. Not too shabby for a simple product whose own patent application never once mentions how it works. You can say that's because it doesn't. I can think of at least one person that would argue, one person who would never agree that the Ouija board is a toy, a hoax. The kind of thing only the simple mind it would take seriously. That man would tell you in very plain terms that the Ouija board is a dangerous thing. He'd know because he was murdered and it was a Ouija board that called for his killing.

[Carrie Bowser]

A social innovation in the home, the Egyptian luck board. Ouija Ouija prophesizes forewarns and advises as well as prefigures one's destiny. The most fascinating, mysterious puzzle in this century, the most interesting and mysterious talking board has awakened great curiosity. Wherever shown, it surpasses in its results second sight, mind reading or clairvoyance. Wonderful as it may seem, the Ouija was thoroughly tested and the above facts demonstrated at the United States Patent Office before the patent was allowed.

[Sherry Lynch]

Now, the Ouija board didn't bother letting Charles Kennard know that he would be kicked out of his own Company. In 1891, a man who'd been working for Canard as a varnisher took over. His name was William Fuld, and one of the first things he did was file that talking board patent and the business took off. Now, the Ouija board did tell Fuld to prepare for a huge year in 1917. So he built a new and bigger manufacturing plant in Baltimore, producing close to a million units per year. 1917 was absolutely a very good year for William Fuld and his mystical talking parlor game Ouija board. Got that right. Too bad that Fuld didn't know to ask the board about Dorothea Kalnac. Why Would he? He'd never heard of any such person, though her name would later be attached to his Ouija board in the ugliest way. Dorothea Kelnac was just a regular American girl, a beautiful nobody who was about to be named America's Venus. As in the Venus de Milo, the ancient Greek marble statue that embodies the feminine ideal. Except for the missing arms, that's less ideal. But no one knows what happened to those, so it only adds to her mystery. These American Venus contests were pretty bizarre. Women had cast off the corsets and bustles of the Victorian era, only to find themselves being judged by a new Beauty Standard, a 2nd century BC marble statue of the Greek goddess Aphrodite. Given that the statue was 6 foot 8 inches tall, some adjustments would clearly have to be made. Experts ended up agreeing that the Venus's actual height was 5 foot 4. If she were a flesh and blood woman, that is. Then there was the whole debate about her measurements. Some experts insisted that the Venus de Milo was a solid 39, 26, 38, while others believe she measured in at 34.75, 28.5, 36. And here's a totally bizarre, fun fact. This whole fixation on the Venus de Milo coincided with a near maniacal belief that poor posture led to poor health. This sparked a mad hunt for scoliosis. On college campuses, students were required to strip naked and be measured every which way, but loose.

[Medical Expert]

By today's standards, a posture examination might seem like a quaint oddity compared with the more enduring practice of testing in the eyes and ears. But the medical profession of the early 20th century believed that assessing bodily carriage held great predictive and diagnostic value. To them, the curves, bumps and protrusions of an individual's body served as a topographical map for understanding the physiological workings under the skin.

[Sherry Lynch]

Bad posture both revealed and predicted bad health. That was the thinking back then.

[Medical Expert]

Harvard orthopedist Joel E. Goldthwaite published widely on the matter. Goldthwaite used the latest X ray technologies to show how slouching posture cramped the lungs, pinched off circulation, and caused the vital organs of the abdomen and chest to descend downward.

[Sherry Lynch]

And so what could be done but ask coeds to strip naked? And this was all widely known to the bottom public. We're talking breathless accounts in newspapers pitting colleges against each other for which student body had the most ideal bodies. And that's how we arrived at the hotly debated Swarthmore vs Wellesley Venuses. Of course, the male students weren't expected to measure up to Michelangelo's David because, well, I mean, you know. Which brings us to March 1917 and a Venus contest put on by the New York newspaper, the Evening World. The paper published the measurements. All contestants would be judged by height. 5.49 inches. 132.2 pounds. Neck, 12.5 inches. Chest, 34.2 inches. Waist, 25.9 inches. Ankle, 8.2 inches.

[Narrator/Actor]

Ms. Kellynack, 21 years old, of Crestwood Park, New York. Two points accepted. Is the flesh and blood replica of the famous statue. To the springing supple lines of her, the arresting charm of a perfectly modeled, perfectly managed body. I can bear grateful witness.

[Sherry Lynch]

Ms. Kalnac, who beat out 50,000 other contestants, was also a reporter's dream. Sassy, smart, downright delightful, I was what

[Dorothea Turley]

is called a tomboy. I climbed fences, I climbed trees. I roamed for hours through the fields and woods. I learned to ride horseback when I was five years old. I learned to swim when I was a mere child. I believe that the tomboy has a better chance of becoming a Venus than the affected, artificial, repressed child whose one duty in life is to be a little lady.

[Sherry Lynch]

No one could have been more surprised to be named the Venus than she was.

[Narrator/Actor]

My being discovered a Venus was all an accident. I never gave my figure a thought or wasted any time looking in mirrors to see if I was beautiful.

[Sherry Lynch]

This whole Venus de Milo obsession was a really big deal. Even Hollywood paid attention, releasing a silent film film in 1926 called the American Venus. Now, for most of us, winning a contest like this might just be the biggest thing that ever happened to us. The story we'd tell over and over again until we're gray and wrinkly and all kinds of forgetful. It's not a bit surprising that Ms. Kelniak went on to become famous, not to mention pursued by what seemed like every bachelor in New York City. What man didn't want the American Venus on his arm? But Dorothea's parents had zero tolerance for this and sent their daughter off to Europe to study music.

[Narrator/Actor]

Ms. Kalinak attained a degree of prominence on the concert stage, but a career was not for this pretty maiden. She met handsome, serious minded. Chief Petty Officer Ernest J. Turley of the U.S. navy fell in love with him and they were married. A daughter, Maddie, and a son, David, were born.

[Sherry Lynch]

And so the Turley family moved from Boston and ended up living for a brief time in California. But life on the west coast had disappointments for Dorothea. She'd grown accustomed to applause and adulation. She was the American Venus. And there was none of that in Coronado, California. And then there was the problem of money. Ernest Turley's Navy salary didn't cover the extras the American Venus had grown accustomed to. And she struggled with her health. Sinus troubles that kept her sick more than she was well. A friend of Dorothea's suggested Arizona. The dry climate would help with her sinus issues and it would be a fresh start for the the family. The kids, Maddie and David, were enthusiastic. Ernest promised them that they would buy guns and learn to hunt and fish. The family bought a ranch, a piece of property high in Arizona's White Mountains. In August 1933, they settled into a rennet cabin. Crude and unattractive, but it was shelter and it was only temporary, Bero told herself. Their neighbors were mostly cattle and the occasional cow puncher. It was lonesome country, but peaceful in its own wild way. The kind of place where a visitor was an occasion, a welcome interruption from the daily grind of endless chores and tasks. A knock came at the door that first week and Dorothea found herself eye to eye with a broad shouldered man with a dusty hat and a weathered smile. He said he was looking for a job.

[Dorothea Turley]

Oh, well, my husband is away from the house just now. We'll have to let you know. What is your name?

[Sherry Lynch]

Reckon it's Kent Pierce, ma'.

[Maddie Turley]

Am.

[Sherry Lynch]

Could be that it was the isolation, the culture shock. One day you're in Boston, the next you're in the wilds of Arizona. Not a shop, not a cafe. Not another soul to be be seen for weeks on end. A person can think they're cut out for solitude, only to learn the hard way that the crowd is where they feel most at home. Or, you know, maybe it was just midlife. Maybe she was bored, disenchanted with the life she'd made. It happens. Within a month of moving to that ranch in Apache County, Dorothea was spending hours hunched over her Ouija board. Maybe she hoped the spirits would offer the comfort she couldn't seem to find anywhere else. Plus, the board was a resource for Dorothea, very similar to the way Google is a resource for us, for example. While roaming around the land surrounding her new home, Dorothea stumbled upon some ancient petroglyphs, prehistoric art carved into the rocks. Dorothea was utterly captivated and full of questions. She knew just who to ask about these mysterious carvings. Her Ouija board. The Ouija board told Dorothea that there was gold buried beneath those rocks. Dorothea told her husband Ernest, and handed him a shovel. Ernest thoroughly grumbled and complained, but commenced to searching.

[Narrator/Actor]

He dug and dug and even used dynamite until his back was breaking. Eventually, Mrs. Turley went to the Ouija again. And the board admitted so she said that some mistake had been made. Mr. Turley never quite forgave her for this tomfoolery.

[Sherry Lynch]

Tensions in the marriage were becoming obvious. Little spats and quarrels that rapidly escalated. The idea of living on a ranch out in the desert wilderness. Sounds pretty romantic when you're daydreaming about it. All those crimson sunsets and peaceful evenings under the stars. That's what you're imagining. The reality, though it's no daydream. The heat, the merciless glaring sun. The dust, the wind you imagined as a welcome breeze. That turns out to be a howling scourge of stinging sand and banging shutters. The grit that works its way into everything, even the sight of Ernest or the sound of his voice. Dorothea's patience was scraped bare.

[Narrator/Actor]

Twice it was revealed later. She even threatened his life, screaming at him one time in rage.

[Dorothea Turley]

Every time I look at you, I want to kill you.

[Sherry Lynch]

There were things other than gold honey that the Ouija board told Dorothea and her teenage daughter Maddie, Who'd been joining her mother in these conversations with the spirits. Spirits who were as displeased as Dorothea with how things had turned out. Something needs to be done, said the spirits. Someone was to blame. Someone who is standing in the way of your happiness. Dorothea. That someone was Ernest Turley. A man completely unaware that his time, according to the mystical talking board, was running out. Maddie Turley. She's been on the fringes of this story. Which is where children find themselves in tales like this. Background characters and the melodrama of their parents lives. Collateral damage. But Maddie is about to make her debut as a main character.

[Carrie Bowser]

The scene. A dusty corral, early morning.

[Narrator/Actor]

Enter stage left.

[Carrie Bowser]

A skunk.

[Narrator/Actor]

On the night of November 17, 1933, a skunk got under the Turley cabin and had a fight with their cat. The noise and odor so disturbed them that they could see sleep no more.

[Sherry Lynch]

That night, the Turleys kept watch all night. Waiting for the skunk to emerge from hiding. It didn't. And by noon the next day, Dorothea declared that she and son David simply had to go to the village store for groceries. It was David's birthday, and she planned a special dinner to celebrate.

[Dorothea Turley]

You stay with Daddy, Maddie, and help him catch the skunk.

[Maddie Turley]

I won't help you catch him, but I might shoot him.

[Sherry Lynch]

And with that, Dorothea and David left. Leaving Maddie standing in front of the house. Holding a loaded shotgun and munching away on an apple. Ernest Turley fetched a bucket and headed to the corral to milk the family's new cow. Maddie followed, still holding the gun, still eating the apple. She watched as her father bent to the task of milking. Watch as he finally finished, then stood and lifted the now heavy bucket. Mattie followed him through the gate and

[Narrator/Actor]

back toward the cabin with no warning at all. Two quick shots rang out. Mr. Turley hit in the back, tumbled down, and glanced around to see Maddie's gun smoking, she herself being on her knees.

[Maddie Turley]

Daddy.

[Sherry Lynch]

The girl was screaming.

[Maddie Turley]

Daddy.

[Sherry Lynch]

Daddy, have I hurt you? Ernest Turley was in tremendous pain, but still managed to not only send his daughter for help, but to admonish her for having been careless. Turley in that moment believed it was an accident, because of course he did. Why in the world would his teenage daughter intentionally shoot him in the back? Maddie was hysterical. Through sobs she managed to get out that she'd stumbled. The gun went off as she fell. Turley tried to comfort his daughter even as Dorothea and the doctor tended to his wounds. The cowboy who'd come around looking for work, Kent Pierce, even showed up and helped out by holding the lantern, illuminating Ernest as he lay pale and sweating in the dim cabin. And the law was there, too.

[Narrator/Actor]

The officers of the county had to make some inquiries. As a matter of custom, one of these officers developed a curiosity.

[Sherry Lynch]

Law enforcement today has all sorts of new and high tech tools at their disposal. At the time of the Turley shooting, there was no DNA, hadn't even been discovered yet. And forensics ballistic testing for bullets was very new. Police did have fingerprint technology, and the FBI's new fingerprint database was in its ninth year. But as we learned from Sherlock Holmes, deductive reasoning coupled with experience can take an investigator a long way. The officer who developed a curiosity was Sheriff Marion Hawes. What sparked his suspicion?

[Narrator/Actor]

The bullets traveled downward. Not upward, through Mr. Turley's hip. That was funny, Sheriff Hawes reasoned, when Maddie said the gun went off as it struck the ground. It would seem more like Turley had been shot while she was still standing, maybe with the gun at her shoulder.

[Sherry Lynch]

How about it, Maddie? Is that about how it went? That was all it took.

[Narrator/Actor]

Maddy did a complete about face and admitted that she had shot her dad. Said she'd raised the gun first as he passed through the cowpen gate but lacked the nerve to pull the trigger.

[Sherry Lynch]

It was a stunning confession, shocking petricide, something so rare that it was nearly impossible to comprehend. Why? Why Maddie? There was no known history of difficulty or conflict between father and daughter to fire a shotgun twice into her father's back. Unfathomable. And Maddie's reason. The Ouija board.

[Maddie Turley]

The Sands took place in a room in our home. It was dark in the room, and there were only shadows from a flickering lamp. Mother asked the Ouija board, shall we kill father? And the pointer moved to yes. Mother asked who should do the killing, and the pointer spelled out my name. Mother said that I must not refuse to follow the command of the Ouija or I would suffer terribly.

[Sherry Lynch]

Maddie described her mother asking the Ouija board if the shooting would be successful. Would Ernest die outright?

[Maddie Turley]

It said that it would be successful and that Father would not die outright. We asked about the law, and it said not to fear the law, that everything would turn out all right. We asked how much the insurance would be, and it said $5,000.

[Sherry Lynch]

The spirits explained. Maddie revealed that Dorothea was meant for a different life with a different man.

[Maddie Turley]

I was nervous to pull the trigger. But then I remembered how important it was to Mother for her to marry her handsome cowboy.

[Sherry Lynch]

That'd be none other than Kent Pierce, the handsome cowboy who'd been so helpful at holding the lantern while the doctor worked on Turley's wounds.

[Maddie Turley]

I raised the gun quickly, and I shot. I had asked Mother if I had to do what the Ouija board said. She told me there was no escaping its commands. I was horrified and panic stricken when he fell.

[Sherry Lynch]

When Dorothea learned of her daughter's confession, she was enraged. She accused the police of bullying and manipulating the girl into making up whatever story they wanted to hear.

[Dorothea Turley]

Well, after that brow beating, that shameful mistreatment, the girl would have confessed to anything.

[Maddie Turley]

I wasn't mistreated at all. I only told what I thought I should.

[Sherry Lynch]

Ernest Turley was hospitalized first in Arizona and then transported by a United States Marine Corps plane to the naval base in San Diego. Meanwhile, his daughter Maddie appeared in juvenile court, where she pleaded guilty. Maddie was sentenced to a reform school in Arizona, where she would remain until her 21st birthday. On December 26, 1933, 38 days after he'd been shot in the back, Ernest Turley succumbed to his injuries and died. If Dorothea hoped his death was the end of it, she was mistaken. Dorothea Turley was arrested and charged with assault with intent to murder. She was sentenced to 10 to 25 years in prison, a sentence she began serving in July 1934. Movies and TV shows and Dateline have taught us that the next person in handcuffs would have to be that handsome cowboy, Kent Pierce.

[Narrator/Actor]

Kent Pierce had All the outward appearance of a movie type cowpuncher. Big hat, neckerchief, tight pants, bow legs and all. But he was a very frightened young man. Who denied any untoward associations with Mrs. Turley.

[Sherry Lynch]

Pierce was investigated and questioned and then released for lack of evidence suggesting he'd been complicit in any way with the murder of Ernest Turley.

[Dorothea Turley]

Well, no. Kent was Maddie's friend. You wouldn't expect a woman of my age to rob a cradle, would you?

[Sherry Lynch]

With Kent Pierce fully cleared, that left mother, daughter. And the Ouija board had a case so confounding that it went all the way to the Arizona Supreme Court. In May 1936. The court was faced with some of the strangest questions ever presented to any tribunal in the state's history.

[Narrator/Actor]

Can a Ouija board think and act by itself. Or may it be influenced by human hands?

[Sherry Lynch]

Dorothea's defense was to call her daughter a liar. And blame the whole thing on teenage rebellion.

[Dorothea Turley]

Maddie was angry with her father and me. We didn't want her to use rouge. Or to run around at night with cow punchers. Or to cross her legs the way she did. Or to wear such short dresses. She has been influenced to place the blame for this killing on me. Because some of the cowboys didn't like me.

[Sherry Lynch]

The first jury didn't believe a word that. But the Arizona State Supreme Court found 32 points of error in the original conviction. And ordered a new trial. Just two years into her sentence, it looked like Dorothea might go free. And upon learning this, Dorothea asked, will

[Dorothea Turley]

I see Maddie again?

[Sherry Lynch]

The warden of the prison gently warned Dorothea that yes, she could see Maddie. But that Maddie was likely to once again again be called to testify against her.

[Dorothea Turley]

Yeah, what of it? As long as I see her.

[Sherry Lynch]

Then Dorothea shared her plan for the future with the warden.

[Dorothea Turley]

Now I'm confident that I will soon be free. If I am, I shall work to have Maddie freed. Then go with her to New York to live with my mother and my son, David. This whole thing has been tragic and involved. And mistakes all the way through. Maddie's father, father himself, said the shooting was accidental. The girl was extremely careless with her gun. It has caused much grief.

[Sherry Lynch]

Sure enough, just two months later, in October 1935, the Arizona Supreme Court reversed the conviction of Mrs. Dorothea Irene Turley. It was expected that a new trial date would be set by July 1936. And that never happened. There was no new trial. Ernest Turley was dead. Maddie Turley was a ward of the state. David Turley, who'd lost his Father. And then watched both his sister and mother be arrested, charged and convicted. Was understandably bitter, especially towards his sister Maddie. You might expect Dorothea to lie low. Any attention might remind the law that they could always get that new murder trial on the docket. Playing low wasn't Dorothea's style. In 1938, she filed a lawsuit asserting

[Narrator/Actor]

that Mrs. Thelma Bradford Bailey, who was in charge of the school for delinquent girls to which Maddie Turley was committed when her mother went to prison, won the girl's affections by obtaining a parole for her. The parole was granted in December 1936. And Mrs. Turley has not heard from her daughter daughter since.

[Sherry Lynch]

Dorothea's lawsuit demanded that she be paid $75,000 in damages due to the loss of affection. How she thought Mrs. Bailey, a matron at a reform school. Might come up with the equivalent of nearly $2 million is anyone's guess. She was tenacious and patient, though. And the alienation of affection trial was finally scheduled for October 1939.

[Narrator/Actor]

Superior Judge Howard C. Speakman dismissed the suit at the request of Mrs. Turley, who said she is too ill to appear in court and is unable to contact her witnesses.

[Sherry Lynch]

And that was pretty much the end of it. Neither Dorothea nor Maddie got away with murder, exactly. But the biggest consequence they faced was the destruction of their family. There was no real justice for Ernest Turley. An attendant at the naval hospital reported that Turley's last words were that just before the gunshot, he glanced over his shoulder and saw his daughter Maddie standing behind him, shotgun leveled. It's hard to imagine what it would be like to die at the hands of a beloved child. The pain, the betrayal, the horror. All mixed up with a father's desperate desire to protect his young. And there, in his last minutes, he remembers seeing his daughter drawing down on him. What really happened on the Turley ranch? The truth was Dorothea spent a lot of time in the company of Kent Pierce, Accompanied by daughter Maddie and another young man named Pollard William Wilt Bank. The four rambled around the Arizona desert in the Turley family car. Witnesses reported seeing Dorothea and Kent Pierce being very affectionate, very demonstrative. Kent Pierce even told a neighbor that he had every intention of marrying Dorothea one day. Interesting how easily all of that was overlooked. Did Dorothea manipulate her teenage daughter to commit murder? What kind of mother pushes her own child to kill? Did Maddie kill her father and then concoct the whole story of a seance and spirits? Or do you believe that Maddie unloaded that double barrel shotgun into her father's back just because she didn't care for his rules. You'd have to ask the Ouija board. Next time on True Weird Stuff. Everyone knows the story of Amelia Earhart, the bold and brave lady pilot who made the first solo transatlantic crossing by a female flight flyer and planned to fly around the world till her plane was lost. There's news now that the wreckage of that plane might finally have been found. And that's fascinating. But you know what's even more fascinating? Dozens and dozens and dozens of radio mayday calls. Amelia Earhart's voice floating over the airwaves, broadcasting, in a sense, sos. The Coast Guard, the Navy, amateur ham radio operators, they all heard it. Why did no one go to the site? Why was Amelia Earhart allowed to die? Let's take a look on the next True Weird Stuff.

[Carrie Bowser]

Special thanks to our voice talents on this episode. Sam Moore, Heather Elizabeth, Carrie, Doc Bow, Aaron Cox, Kevin Nash, Lamar Richardson, and Don Morgan. Spiritualism sort of comes and goes, this business of trying to contact the dead, Ouija boards, that sort of thing. We had talked about this before that it had a big, it was a big sensation right after the Civil War. It also, in the 1920s and 30s, had a renaissance of sorts of. And then somehow I can remember when we were kids, my sister had a Ouija board.

[Sherry Lynch]

It sells incredibly well even to this day.

[Carrie Bowser]

She would get together with her girlfriends and they were moving it around on the board. I don't know what they were talking about, but it's kind of amazing that this mother did something that a lot of parents do. They make a child do something. And because you're so bonded to the parent, you want to please the parent. So that's, that's, that part of the story is actually not all that surprising.

[Sherry Lynch]

The. Okay, so, like, the Ouija board is an amazing product because it literally makes no, even its patent makes zero promises that it does anything but sit there. And they sell hundreds of thousands of them every year. Isn't that kind of, isn't that kind of genius when you think about it? Like, it's a perfect, it's a perfect product, and it's sold and marketed as a children's toy. But there, I know, I mean, you, you can ask 10 people, and at least three of those 10 will tell you that it's demonic and they won't allow it in their house. Like, it has quite the reputation. So the thing with the spiritualism movement, it was a hoax and a prank, but that I want to make, I want to make really clear that that doesn't mean that there's not a spirit world, you know?

[Carrie Bowser]

No, I agree with you on that.

[Sherry Lynch]

Like, there are people who do fraudulent real estate schemes selling you island property. That doesn't mean there aren't islands. Right. It's just meant we had a shitty person who did a fraudulent thing. So I want to, I want to get right out in front of that because people get upset when you, you. When you suggest that there's no unseen world and, and who knows? Right, Right. The thing with Dorothea, this is actually when you take the Ouija board out of it. This is a very familiar story. Beautiful, bubbly, sparkling woman marries sober minded, hardworking, serious guy. They move away from everything she's ever known, they start a family, they end up out in the middle of nowhere, and then there's a murder. This is like, without this, how does Josh Mankiewicz pay for this house?

[Carrie Bowser]

Right, I know, exactly. Yes.

[Sherry Lynch]

And even the part where we manipulate the kid into pulling the trigger or poisoning the drink, that's not novel. There are two things in this story that make it jump. One is the Ouija board, and the other is one, once again, where's the trial? They just never got around to it. And so somebody got away with murder or conspiracy to commit murder. And I think that somebody was Dorothea. Back in the day. This, that was a time to be a criminal, because the court systems, I guess, since everything was done on paper and folks were tired and hot, whatever. Like, how many times have we seen this, Max, where the trial just never happened?

[Carrie Bowser]

So you don't think Kent knew about this or do you? And we didn't, we didn't really get into that in the story, but I just wondered what you might have thought about that.

[Sherry Lynch]

Okay, so here's the thing with Kent Pierce, and I don't know why this is. The law cleared him almost immediately. Even though the neighbors and people in the nearby town, the gossip about Kent Pierce and Dorothea Turley was off the hook. Clearly there was something going on there. The law cleared him. So one of the things that we try to do in this podcast is save all of our speculation for this part. So I'm only going to put the stuff in the story that is the stuff that is like, that can be documented. Right. I, like you, could not believe that. Handsome, bow legged, squinty eyed Kent Pierce basically said to the sheriff, no, sir, I. I didn't do nothing. I don't know nothing. And the sheriff was like, that's good enough for me. And that was the end of that. When clearly by Kent Pierce's own admission.

[Carrie Bowser]

Yeah.

[Sherry Lynch]

To other people. Hearsay, of course. Can't get it into court. Even if you are going to have a trial, clearly there was something going on. So I think there is a villain in this story, A monstrous human being. And I think that person is Dorothea Kelnjak.

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[Sherry Lynch]

It's hard to look at this story and not feel like Dorothea was bored, restless, cheating. And, you know, the easiest way out was for Ernest to die. Yet she didn't have the wherewithal or the gumption to pull the trigger herself. So she did one of the most evil things I can imagine. She manipulated her child into killing her father. That's. That's evil.

[Carrie Bowser]

It is. But we've seen many cases of this where the one parent wants the child to do something, and they do it, I imagine. So apparently, the daughter was in the company of a man. Right. Who was one of the friends of. Right.

[Sherry Lynch]

This is where it gets. This is where it gets really toxic. And again, like, I don't want to. I don't want to put things that are just made up in there, but I can speculate wildly. Now, here we go. Dorothea wanted to spend time with Kent Pierce and vice versa, but they needed a cover, and that had to be Maddie. And Maddie was 15 when this whole saga began. And so Kent brought a friend. And to all appearances, it would look like mother and daughter out for a ride. Surely there's nothing going on here who would bring their child into that. Right? So it's. I. I could not find one single instance where Maddie was on board with this. There's. There's all this talk about Maddie's short dresses and Maddie's rouge and Maddie wanting to cross her legs. But when you really. That's all what Dorothea is saying. But when you look at the. At the rest of it, you know, Maddie ended up in reform school for years until she got out right before her 21st birthday, and then disappeared into the most private life imaginable. There was no evidence that anything Dorothea said about her daughter was true. None. None.

[Carrie Bowser]

So. And I imagine part of this manipulation was, hey, we're out with these two men and we're not gonna tell your dad. So that's just between us. So it's like we have this special little bond and whatever I say goes, and you'll do whatever I say is what that ended up progressing to. And you can see how that would happen.

[Sherry Lynch]

There's a little moment, it's a blink and you miss it moment. Maddie testifying. I knew how important it was for mother to marry her handsome cowboy. Well, it's as she said. She said Dorothea says Maddie is lying to cover for herself. But again, there's no. There's no evidence that you can find to suggest that. And Maddie right there under oath, is saying something completely different. I think there was so much sympathy for Maddie, even on the part of the sheriff who broke the case. Yeah, by. He was so gentle with her and so tender toward her that it dissolved whatever. Whatever facade she had managed to put up to try to brazen her way through this. He just melted it. And that's when the confession came out. Everyone, there was no doubt that Maddie Turley fired a double barreled Bridger. That's my dog, he said. I'm sad too. People are terrible, dude. There's zero argument that it was Maddie Turley who, at 15 years old, fired a double barreled shotgun into her father's back. No one disputes that. Not Maddie, not Ernest, not the cops. No one.

[Carrie Bowser]

And her. Go ahead, Go ahead.

[Sherry Lynch]

And her father. And this is the most heartbreaking part of this story for me, her father, until his last breath, was he was trying to convince himself that it had been a terrible accident. And it wasn't until the end, as the light was leaving his eyes, that he said, I looked over my shoulder and saw my daughter standing. It's terrible, Bridger. It's tragic. Standing and leveling that shotgun at my back. So he knew.

[Carrie Bowser]

He did know. But at the same time, that is his daughter. So he is going to give her the benefit of the doubt throughout because he's gonna try to protect her. Yeah, she did do this. But maybe there was a reason. Maybe it was a mistake. Maybe I missed whatever it is that he had running through his mind. So he was. I think he was just being protective of his daughter. And then at the very end said, look, I can't do this anymore. This is really what happened. Because I think when you're close to dying, you want the truth to come out.

[Sherry Lynch]

Well, there's in people's actions sometimes in their smallest. Bridger I'm going to need you to get a grip. Okay. In people's smallest actions or their most offhanded words, you see the truth of a situation or their character. So we have Dorothea, who. Can I just tell you, you know, sometimes when we're talking about people in the past, people of a hundred years ago, and you'll read something like. And so. And so was a beauty bombshell. And you look at the picture and you're like, now she looks a little bit like a yam, I guess standard. Or he looks. His face is. That was the. That's considered like dashing back in the day. You know what I'm talking about? Because beauty standards change.

[Carrie Bowser]

So I did, I. Holy moly. I did look and go have a look. I went and had a good look at Dorothea. And you know, you know,

[Sherry Lynch]

beautiful in that. In that approachable way. Like, listen, no man on earth has a shot at Nev Campbell. But you think you do in a way that you don't with Angelina Jolie. Do you understand the difference?

[Carrie Bowser]

Yes, I do.

[Sherry Lynch]

No man is like, yeah, I got a shot at Angelina Jolie, because, you know, you don't, Brian, but Nev Campbell, you could maybe make something happen there. It's this otherworldly beauty that manages to somehow be approachable. That was Dorothea.

[Carrie Bowser]

This had to have been a sensation in the newspapers when this came out. It just had to have been a sensation because this is worthy of a two parter dateline episode. Really is.

[Sherry Lynch]

Well, there are so many pieces of this. Like for. Do you know even today how rare it is for a child to kill a parent? It's so rare for. For a daughter to kill a father. It's so incredibly rare.

[Carrie Bowser]

Yeah.

[Sherry Lynch]

And so what do we have here? We have the American Venus. She was a coast to coast sensation at the time of that competition. And we haven't even touched on the weird trend of measuring naked college girls.

[Carrie Bowser]

We talked about that.

[Sherry Lynch]

We haven't even touched on that.

[Carrie Bowser]

And we will talk because. Oh my God.

[Sherry Lynch]

But this woman, I am telling you, she was what we would like. She was the equivalent of a. In our world of like a big reality TV star. You know, everybody knew who she was. And the newspaper, I mean, they couldn't get enough of her. And she was, she made great copy because she was sassy. You know, I'm a tomboy. I'm not like the other girls. In other words, she was a real pick me. But for the time, she was an enormous star. And you must remember that this is like 1917, before we really have big Hollywood stars, right? She was huge. And Ernest Turley was an officer in the United States Navy. They tend not to be goofballs, right? He was a serious.

[Carrie Bowser]

Yeah, he did.

[Sherry Lynch]

Intelligent man. And she was bored. She was bored and under. Amused. It was her idea to move. Hey, please, I'm begging you. I'm begging you. It was her idea to move from California to Arizona. She wasn't happy in California. They probably should not have left Boston, but, you know, it woulda, shoulda, coulda. She was miserable in California and thought, you know, she had these romantic notions. She probably pictured herself, you know, galloping on a steed through the desert with the wind blowing her hair back as the sunset behind a mesa. I mean, you know how people. You know how we are, right? You know, with this kind of thing. And then she was just bored. And she resented Earnest, even though the man had been tripping over himself to whatever she wanted, they would have. And she had these two beautiful children. One of them she turned into a murderer. David Turley lived the rest of his life in a bitter fury over what had happened to his family, to his dad, and to his life. A bitter fury.

[Carrie Bowser]

I. I wonder if only Maddie ended up.

[Sherry Lynch]

No, he never forgave her. Unless he forgave her. And it never made it into the public sphere.

[Carrie Bowser]

But I wonder if he was able to look at it and see it for what it was. But, you know, and.

[Sherry Lynch]

And Dorothea played the victim right up until the end. She. You know, the whole thing where the. The matron at the reform school has turned my child against me. Lady, you manipulated your kid into committing murder, into shooting her father in the back. Back. I think that might be what turned Maddie against you and the. The whole lawsuit. I shall sue. And then, oh, my health is too poor. Ain't nothing wrong with your health, Queen. You don't have a case. And apparently someone got through to her that she had no case. It's. It's for the American Venus, held up as this icon, this ideal of feminine beauty and charm to turn out to be such a sociopath disappointment. It was. It was a disappointment.

[Carrie Bowser]

Yeah.

[Sherry Lynch]

We could have done an entire episode on these men measuring college girls.

[Carrie Bowser]

I'm sure I couldn't quite get over this, that that's how that happened and. Although, can I just tell you, it's so funny when you were reading about this that I was thinking to myself, you know, when I was in college, I went to a community college, and we had wet T shirt contests on a Friday afternoon, and nobody said anything about it. Nobody acted like there was something wrong with that. This is at a community college. When I think about that now, you would no more hear something like that. So it's not surprising to me that this sort of mania started it.

[Sherry Lynch]

The thing like you look at it and you go. And it was all under the, you know, it was all masquerading as public health. You know, the epidemic of scoliosis. Wait, there was no epidemic of scoliosis. You're a pervert.

[Carrie Bowser]

Right? That's exactly right.

[Sherry Lynch]

And if you, and if you think about who is going to places like Swarthmore and Wellesley and Harvard at the turn of the last century, you know, wealthy. The daughters of wealthy privileged families. It's, you know, college was a very elite experience and so ever. And it was mandatory. You were admitted into Wellesley. Wellesley, well, the school that starts with a W. You were admitted and. And then you had to strip and be measured. And not like they were measuring the circumference of your ankle, the length of your fingers, the distance between, you know, the top of your breasts and your waist. Like they were all over these girls. Can you imagine how bizarre that was? And the whole, the whole find the American Venus. Like what the hell? It's a, it's an almost seven foot tall statue with no arms. What are we, folks? What, what was in the drinking water that Everybody was so nuts and weird, but they were. And she, she probably would have lived a completely different life free of any violence without the fame of the American Venus. I'm not saying that's why she did it, but after winning that contest and being celebrated and pampered and parades and you know, newspaper and magazine coverage and people taking your photo and asking your opinion on things and you're meeting dignitaries. It's a little bit hard to go back to the farm after that, isn't it?

[Carrie Bowser]

Especially if you're not particularly have a good sense of self worth. And I don't think she did. Or just a sociopath. That's possible as well.

[Sherry Lynch]

Well, she was so young when all of this happened.

[Carrie Bowser]

Oh yeah.

[Sherry Lynch]

And I think it's kind of human nature when things are going really great for you, whoever you are, wherever you are, there's this part of you that just kind of. Of thinks, well, this is how my life is now. Things are going to stay pretty great.

[Carrie Bowser]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Sherry Lynch]

But that is not how life works. And that's why it's important to enjoy those moments and occupy them fully. Because they're fleeting and your life may not always be so Wonderful. And especially instant fame, I think is a poisonous thing. Oh yeah, it's one thing thing to work your way. And we could, we could sit here and name artists in various different fields, actors and musicians and dancers and whatnot, who. Writers who really worked to achieve fame. And what looks to us like an overnight success is to quote Harrison Ford, about 15 years of struggle and building people's decks. Yeah, right. So when folks who've gone through that journey arrive at a point of success, they have some life experience behind them and maybe a little perspective. But I want you to imagine you're literally a teenage kid and suddenly you're being celebrated as the epitome of female beauty in the usa. You don't have anything to compare that adulation and fame and privilege to. And it just feels like it should keep going and it doesn't. And it for her, she's like one of these flash in the pan reality stars. The, you know, it's Spencer Pratt and Heidi Montag. The spotlight moves on and you're like, whoa, wait, wait, wait. I wait. But I, I love that and I need money now. That was Dorothea. And so maybe she married what seemed like a really solid, safe and good man in Ernest Turley. And we have no way of knowing if there was love and attraction because that kind of stuff goes into people's diaries back then.

[Carrie Bowser]

Yeah, we don't, we, we don't know he's the victim in this crime. We don't know what kind of person he was. We don't, we really don't know what the situation was. But I have to believe that she had all this fame and everything else and getting married was just, just the next, the next thing to do that was going to fix whatever she might have felt was wrong inside.

[Sherry Lynch]

Sure. Because what else was there to do for America's Venus back in the day? And this wasn't. She was a little bit early for the dangling of a Hollywood contract. It's wild to me. We see this all the time in true weird stuff. The things you think are modern, like, oh, the person wins the singing contest and now they're going to star in a movie. That's always since Hollywood has existed, we've seen this over and over again. Do you remember we had the episode in Arkansas where the, you know, the, the guy was promised a big show business career and they took him around and put him on radio stations. He had a Hollywood contract as a walk on part in a movie. And then of course it fizzled out and he was back on the farm. Because it turns out it's real hard to sustain that. Exactly. Bridger. So I went looking for all of these people. How did things turn out? It's tricky with women because their names change right when they get married. I can tell you that. They all disappeared. They all just. Maddie. Maddie could not escape the public attention fast enough. And you can understand why, certainly. Bridger. So if you're a new true weird stuff listener. We rescued Bridger from the pound he was brought in with. There were eight dogs altogether that were rescued by police and animal control from some. I don't know if it was a breeding situation or I don't know what was going on. His little paws had never been on anything but concrete. His little claws. His nails had grown up into his paw pads. He was emaciated. The other seven dogs that came in with him all had to be immediately euthanized. None of them could be saved. He was the only survivor. Today he thinks he's King Charles of England. He is the bougiest house hippo you can possibly imagine. He weighs, like 80 pounds, he thinks. Thinks he's a lap dog or a cat. And he is so fixated on my husband that he can't bear to be separated from him. And my husband broke a tooth and is at the dentist because ordinarily I wouldn't have Bridger. So here we have the perfect storm of insane bougie dog with separation issues, husband with a broken tooth and a Ouija board murder happening all at the same. Yes, sir. Come here. Come here, and I'll scratch your head.

[Carrie Bowser]

You know, if you could figure out a way to kill him, you know, you wouldn't have any of these problems. Sherry. I'm just saying that it is a.

[Sherry Lynch]

If only I didn't have a conscience. So, you know, Ernest Turley had a distinguished career in the Navy and tremendous support from the military. I mean, he's languishing in this hospital in Arizona. And remember what. Remember the time like this was before for, you know, the kind of advanced medicine and antibiotics and all the stuff that we have now. And so the Marines flew him to San Diego. They medevaced him out of there to try to save his life. And the doctors at the naval station, the naval base in San Diego, worked around the clock. And for a minute there, it looked like there was hope, but his injuries were too severe. And it breaks my. My heart. It breaks. It breaks my heart that he died. His last moment was the admission that his daughter had deliberately tried to murder him.

[Carrie Bowser]

And. And so I. I did a Little. I did a little search about Kent, and apparently Kent just sort of faded. He faded from view after all of this.

[Sherry Lynch]

They all did. And they did that because they were allowed to do that. Yeah, they. And. And I don't know. I mean, you remember this one went all the way to the Arizona Supreme Court. This wasn't like some dusty courtroom, you know, in a town with one saloon. This was a big case. I can't. I can't tell you why the retrial. The new murder trial did not ever make it onto the docket. It might have been that the prosecutor. Because remember the original murder conviction, they found 32 points of legal error. Like small procedural stuff.

[Carrie Bowser]

Right.

[Sherry Lynch]

You know, little legal nuances. So it was pretty thoroughly examined at the state supreme court level. And so I'm guessing that when the prosecutor sat down to review the case. Turley's dead. Maddie. They can bring Maddie in to testify again, but what do they really. Maddie's already confessed to shooting Ernest.

[Carrie Bowser]

Right.

[Sherry Lynch]

And she's done her time to bring another murder trial. Now they've got to prove that this woman, via the Ouija board, manipulated her daughter. And I bet that would be kind of tricky in any courtroom to prove, much less back then. What do you think?

[Carrie Bowser]

Yeah, I think that it probably would have been because you need. You need back then, eyewitnesses were the big. Were the big thing, you know? But here's what I imagine. Ken Pierce holding the light as they're tending this poor guy's gunshot wound. And him going, boy, I bet that looks like it hurts. Knowing how it all happened.

[Sherry Lynch]

It's diabolical. And that's why I have armchair diagnosed Dorothea as your everyday next door sociopath. You know, they walk amongst us and they do most of the time. They never do anything violent. They're just kind of hard to get along with because. Because they're devoid of empathy. And the. That lack of empathy, you know, their life is great because they're living their best life every waking minute. Because I don't give a damn about you.

[Carrie Bowser]

Right? Right.

[Sherry Lynch]

So I don't know if you agree with that, but I just feel like she demonstrated consistently just a complete lack of empathy for everyone but herself but herself.

[Carrie Bowser]

And if you're thinking this is the only murder that involved a Ouija board in this country, it. You are sadly mistaken.

[Sherry Lynch]

There are so many. But I want you to imagine if we are correct and the neighbor gossip is correct, and the general view of the case is correct, she talked her daughter, her 15 year old. That's a child. She talked her 15 year old into pulling the trigger and then brought her lover in to watch her husband suffer and hopefully die. The fact that he didn't. Well, that just didn't go away.

[Carrie Bowser]

I wonder if the daughter. The other man that was involved with this. Whether something was happening between the daughter and him. The mother says, I will keep this quiet. You can go off with him and I will go off with my cowboy and we will both be happy and we need to be rid of him. Whether that wasn't a part of the equation as well.

[Sherry Lynch]

You know what? There's no evidence of any relationship between Maddie and the. That Wilton dude.

[Carrie Bowser]

Yeah.

[Sherry Lynch]

Will it. Dude. But that doesn't mean that mom didn't sell that idea to me.

[Carrie Bowser]

That's what I'm. That's what I'm thinking. I'm not saying he did anything wrong or that she did anything, but. But I. My guess is that she would be able to sell that a little better. Look, both of us, we have happiness at our doorstep. What's the one thing that's keeping us from. From that boom?

[Sherry Lynch]

Think about how toxic it is. This idea of Maddie. We're on a double date with our cowboys. You married. And that's her father. Like the level of toxic manipulation just. Even if a trigger never got pulled. Max.

[Carrie Bowser]

Right.

[Sherry Lynch]

You make your child your co Conspirator. It. It's so disgusting, isn't it?

[Carrie Bowser]

It truly is. And the way she acted afterwards just sort of feeds into that. That. That is exactly how it all came down.

[Sherry Lynch]

Like this is one of those where. I mean, there are three things you can believe. You can believe that spirits did tell Maddie to do that. Right? Okay. You can believe that. You can believe that Maddie decided to kill her father because she wanted to wear sh. Shorts, dresses and cross her legs. Teenage teenagers have committed some crimes for roughly less. Right? Even in the modern times. Bridger. Bridger. I need to have a word with you. This does not. He's at the dentist.

[Carrie Bowser]

Sherry, can I point out one other thing that I think is funny? The guy who helped invent the Ouija board. What did he do for a living? He was a fertilizer salesman.

[Sherry Lynch]

Fertilizer.

[Carrie Bowser]

Of course he was.

[Sherry Lynch]

I liked. And this was how America used to be. His first business partner was a furniture maker who also made coffins and doubled as the town's undertaker. I mean, that's a hustle. That's a hustler.

[Carrie Bowser]

That is. That is.

[Sherry Lynch]

So here we have. Here we have. There's just no way. Even though this story has loose ends and unanswered questions in terms of Kent Pierce and all of it. There is no way that Dorothea does not look like a stone cold blooded, sociopathic, selfish, black widow spider bitch in this story.

[Carrie Bowser]

No question,

[Sherry Lynch]

honey pie, sugar buns. I. You know what? I don't even know how I'm going to get back at you for this, but I'm thinking of a plan. I'm going to give the cat your. Your next tooth bone. They like those green dental chewy things. They're supposed to like, help their teeth. Well, it turns out the cat likes them too, because the cat and the dog think they're each other. It's very. That's on the next True Weird stuff. It's a cat who thinks he's a dog. So, David, there are two victims in this story. There are three victims in this story. Ernest. Of course, Maddie. Because your own mother made you into.

[Carrie Bowser]

Right.

[Sherry Lynch]

Made you into a killer. And you have to live with that for the rest of your life. It cost you your freedom, it costs you your father, it costs you your brother.

[Carrie Bowser]

Right?

[Sherry Lynch]

It dramatically upended any hope you had for whatever future you planned.

[Carrie Bowser]

Right?

[Sherry Lynch]

But David Turley, who is completely kicked off to the side in all of this like an old dried cow pie, is also a victim.

[Carrie Bowser]

Yeah.

[Sherry Lynch]

Here, go chew on this. There you go. You've been wanting to chew on it all day. Now's your chance. What else? There was something else in here. We were gonna. The perverts measuring naked college girls. Check.

[Carrie Bowser]

Yeah.

[Sherry Lynch]

The creator of the Ouija board being a failed fertilizer salesman. Check.

[Carrie Bowser]

Sure. I'm just wondering if there's a magic eight ball murder that we can.

[Sherry Lynch]

I'm hope I'll. I'll find one for you.

[Carrie Bowser]

Can we find that? Maybe do that and I'll find one.

[Sherry Lynch]

So here's what I. We always like to. When we have these cases where it's murky, we always like to present our own theory of the case. I think Dorothea and Kent Pierce were hooking up. I think Dorothea wanted to be with Kent Pierce, who was significantly younger. But again, she's the American Venus. And buddy, I'm here to tell you, she was. She was some kind of something h. So of course, all I can say is a handsome and they said Camp Pierce. Like a lot of the accounts of the dark day. Ken Pierce was like movie star handsome. So we have a young, swaggering, bowlegged, sexy cowboy. And we have America's Venus. And yeah, she's in her late 30s. And today that's Nothing. But back then, you know. Move out, Meemaw. But she was still absolutely drop dead gorgeous and so alluring and sassy and playful. She was catnip. I think that she didn't want Kent because if Kent had pulled that trigger, he'd have been hanged. Right?

[Carrie Bowser]

Right.

[Sherry Lynch]

There's no way this case would have been as bizarre and convoluted if Kent Pierce had pulled the trigger. She can't risk having her cowboy pull the trigger. And she doesn't want to get her hands dirty that way.

[Carrie Bowser]

And I. Maybe in her mind she thought if her daughter did it and that nothing would happen to her because she was underage. I don't know.

[Sherry Lynch]

I think so. Maybe because her daughter was a minor. The. The Ouija board angle is just. It's like woo, woo. But it's also the most sinister thing because what Dorothy managed to pull off was persuading Maddie to commit murder. But it wasn't her mother doing the persuading. It was the spirits. Yeah. So whatever. Whatever karmic justice we all face at the end. And I guess I'm getting mine right now with Bridger. Whatever karmic justice we all face at the end. Dorothea Kelney, Irene Kelnyak turn Turley is guilty of some very egregious acts of evil here, of deception and betrayal and manipulation and violence.

[Carrie Bowser]

It's called divorce.

[Sherry Lynch]

But aren't you.

[Carrie Bowser]

But Keith Morrison and Josh Mankiewicz could tell you that.

[Sherry Lynch]

I'm so amazed at the people. People who. Boy, divorce sounds like a lot of work. Let me kill him instead.

[Carrie Bowser]

Girl, I'm with you.

[Sherry Lynch]

I've been divorced. It's awful. I. I cannot recommend it. Bridger. This is the part where I announce publicly into a microphone that I'm not going to kill your favorite person. So listen, if my husband ever turned up murdered, I assure you it wasn't me. Because I know better. Ain't no divorce. I don't care how ugly it is. I don't care what you're risking. I don't care how much you're going to lose. I don't care if you have to live in your car. No divorce is going to be worse than committing a murder. Even if you think you have a perfect plan, you're going to get away with it. She thought she had a pretty slick plan. And I think you're right. I think she thought Maddie's age would. I think they would hear Maddie say, the spirits told me to do it. And the worst case scenario for Maddie was a little time in a lunatic Asylum.

[Carrie Bowser]

Or the idea that I accidentally. The gun fell down, it accidentally went off. And everybody believe it because she's 15 and she was clumsy. You know, I mean, if.

[Sherry Lynch]

If Maddie were a little smarter. If Maddie took after her mother instead of her father. Maddie, who was a pretty good shot, shot Ernest, made good on his promise to buy the kids guns and teach them how to hunt and fish. Maddie was a pretty fair shot. And there was some foreshadowing in here, if you remember. When mom and David pull away. Help. What does Maddie say? When Dorothea says, help, Daddy trap the skunk. What does Maddie say? I won't trap him, but I might shoot him. So if Maddie. What I was saying was, if Maddie took after Dorothea instead of Ernest, it might have occurred to Maddie, who was no stranger to that shotgun. It was hers. Might have occurred to Maddie the direction the bullets would enter. And she might have dropped. She might have dropped to the ground before firing, and then none of this would have ever happened. Because what broke the case was Sheriff. Pause. Wondering how those bullets had arrived, where they were, if she was telling the truth. So this is why, folks, you can't commit murder. I promise you. You're not smart enough to think of everything. None of us are. No, hey, hey, hey, Yo.

[Carrie Bowser]

No, but. But you know she's going to shoot him. No, she's probably not thinking in her mind. Well, somebody's going to wonder what the angle is on this. You know, somebody shot.

[Sherry Lynch]

She didn't take after her mother, who was, along with being absolutely deliciously beautiful, a very calculating personality.

[Carrie Bowser]

Was she. Was she deliciously beautiful? I'm looking at some pictures now. Maybe they're later pictures. I don't know.

[Sherry Lynch]

The later pictures. Are you looking at the pictures when she was named the American Venus, when it. It was like, you know, the actress Margaret Qualley? She did Maid in the Substance. There's a little bit of a Margaret Qualley vibe. And I happen to think Margaret Qualley, like, is just on. Oh, my God. Scrumptious.

[Carrie Bowser]

Oh, okay. Yeah, I was looking.

[Sherry Lynch]

Seeing it.

[Carrie Bowser]

I'm seeing. I'm seeing, like. Yeah, I'm seeing some. Some pictures, you know, time in the past. Oh, yeah. Oh, she was a. She was a major babe. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sherry Lynch]

This is why you have to be so careful, because, like, your great grandparents will say stuff like that Ethel Merman was a bombshell. And then you pull up a picture of Ethel Merman on your phone, and you're like, meemaw, she looks like a Maytag chest freezer. But then you look at the young Ethel Merman and you're like, oh, oh, yeah.

[Carrie Bowser]

Okay.

[Sherry Lynch]

She kind of was a bombshell. When you look at the young Dorothea, the American Venus, Dorothea, that's the one Ernest fell in love with. Yeah, yeah, It's a right.

[Carrie Bowser]

And the one that Ken Fierce fell in love with.

[Sherry Lynch]

It's not nice to talk about people's appearances, but I think it is fair to say that sometimes you'll hear like, this old time movie star was the chisel. And then you'll look at them and you're like, I don't see it.

[Carrie Bowser]

Okay. Yeah. I was seeing later pictures of her, Sherry, so.

[Sherry Lynch]

Yeah, well, going to prison and committing murder and being a scandal took a toll.

[Carrie Bowser]

They serve a lot of starchy food in the prison. That's just. I'm just going to say that that doesn't help your complexion or anything else.

[Sherry Lynch]

Yes, she doesn't. Look, when they released her, she only served two years for persuading her child to kill her father. When she emerged from that lockup, she. She had lost that vibrant glow that had convinced Kent Pierce to be an accessory to murder. And he got away with that, too, because you can't tell me he wasn't an accessory to that. Yeah, there's no way.

[Carrie Bowser]

That's what I.

[Sherry Lynch]

They couldn't. They couldn't pin anything on him. They couldn't. Okay. Let me tell you what Bridger has now. I have one of those little toys. It's a screaming goat. So there's like a little thing that you press at the bottom underneath. It's really low tech, no batteries or anything. He's eating it, and every once in a while, from inside his mouth, I hear the mic must not be picking it up. So what have we learned here? Here's what we have learned. Don't be killing folks.

[Carrie Bowser]

Yeah, I think that's probably. That's a pretty. That's a pretty good lesson to learn.

[Sherry Lynch]

I mean, if you're unhappy in your marriage, murder's not the answer. If you're in love with a sexy cowboy from down the road, murder's not the answer.

[Carrie Bowser]

No.

[Sherry Lynch]

And. And the idea of turning your kid into the killer girl. So I'm pretty sure she remarried and changed her name, but never, you know, as far as we know, never did anything noteworthy again. Okay. You're barking at the little goat, and it's not real. You know, some people will tell you, like, this dog is so smart, you'd swear he was a person. Yeah, you'll never hear me say that.

[Carrie Bowser]

You never Have.

[Sherry Lynch]

Okay. And with that, we will wrap up this episode and we'll take a look next time at the unanswered distress calls.

[Carrie Bowser]

I am very excited about this next episode. I am. I'm really very excited about it.

[Sherry Lynch]

I'm gonna ask you to think between now and then. Then he's barking at the goat because it makes noise. He's barking at the little goat because it makes noise. And I guess I don't even know what's happening here. No, what I want you to think about is, why Max? Hey, why Max? With all those distress calls? Why did no one go? Why did they leave her there to die?

[Carrie Bowser]

I don't know. I. I want to hear the story. I mean, it was. It was during World War II or it was. I say it was during World War II. I can't remember. What year was it that she went down?

[Sherry Lynch]

She went down right before World War II.

[Carrie Bowser]

Right. Well, right before our involvement in World War I.

[Maddie Turley]

Right?

[Sherry Lynch]

Yeah, right before we went in. Yeah.

[Narrator/Actor]

Yeah.

[Sherry Lynch]

I'm sorry. That was such an American centric thing to say. Right before we joined the fight.

[Carrie Bowser]

Right.

[Sherry Lynch]

She. Her plane went down. So now, Granite. We didn't have the kind of sophisticated technology we have now in terms of mapping, navigation, locating and pinpointing signals and all of that. We. We didn't have that. But we had a real pretty good idea. And we had not one or two. We had so many distress calls, and some people have theories as to why she was. Was left there to die. And, boy, if the. If any of those theories are even close to true, we are a shameful, shameful country and an embarrassment as a species. And that's all we'll say about that until the next True Weird Stuff. Thanks for being patient about Bridger the dog, and we'll see you next time.

[Carrie Bowser]

And if you listen to us on Apple podcast, hit the plus button in the top right corner. And now it helps an independent podcast like ours to get discovered, and we really, really appreciate it. If you subscribe, rate and review True

[Sherry Lynch]

Weird Stuff, hit our website, trueweirdstuff.com for show notes and photos and videos when we have it, and bonus content. Everything True Weird is waiting for you@True

[Carrie Bowser]

WeirdStuff.com and follow True Weird Stuff on Instagram.

[Sherry Lynch]

True Weird Stuff is in NOW Media production. Our executive producer is Anthony Garcia. The show is written and hosted by me, Sherry lynch, along with my deeply weird director, Max Sweeten. Our equally odd producer is Carrie Bowser. Additional production by the mysterious Stephen Call, our digital witch and social media cult leader is Heather Fur. Original graphics by Kevin Nash. Original artworks by Olivia Axelin. True Weird Original music composed and performed by Jack Griffin and Zane.

[Carrie Bowser]

Copyright 2026 Now Media.

[Sherry Lynch]

All rights reserved. All Wrongs Remembered.

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