Akina Cox - Part 1: Unification Church, Mass Weddings, and Unpaid Labor

Summary

Trust Me: Cults, Extreme Belief, and Manipulation
Episode: Akina Cox - Part 1: Unification Church, Mass Weddings, and Unpaid Labor
Release Date: July 30, 2025

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Introduction

In this compelling first part of her two-part interview, Akina Cox, an artist and writer, delves into her upbringing within the Unification Church, commonly referred to as the Moonies. Hosted by Lola Blanc and Megan Elizabeth of Exactly Right and iHeartPodcasts, this episode offers an unfiltered exploration of life inside a high-control religious group, the psychological manipulations employed by its leaders, and the profound impact these experiences have on its members.

Akina's Journey into the Unification Church

Akina begins by recounting how her parents became involved with the Unification Church during the late 1960s and early 1970s—a period marked by societal upheaval and widespread search for alternative beliefs. Her father, a near-draft dodger from the Vietnam War, met Reverend Moon through hitchhiking, leading to his recruitment into the church after attending a free dinner event.

Akina Cox [16:12]: "My dad barely escaped getting drafted into Vietnam and he was just hitchhiking across the country... he went to get some free dinner with this guy and then went to that second location."

Life Within the Church: Control and Manipulation

Growing up as a second-generation member, Akina describes the stringent controls exerted by the church over members' lives. From restricted dating practices to mandatory participation in mass wedding ceremonies, the Unification Church meticulously orchestrated every aspect to maintain devotion and suppress dissent.

Akina Cox [33:31]: "So that was the gist of it. There was like a lot of other stuff... the term love bombing was invented by the church. It was really into being really nice to people and getting them to join the cult."

Mass Weddings and Arranged Marriages

One of the most harrowing aspects Akina shares is the mass wedding ceremonies, famously held in Madison Square Garden in 1982, where thousands of couples were blessed in large-scale, arranged marriages. These ceremonies were touted as a divine act to erase original sin, compelling members to marry within the faith regardless of personal compatibility.

Akina Cox [60:20]: "We went to a blessing and everyone was like, you guys, like, this is a sign that the blessing really works, Reverend Moon."

Economic Exploitation and Lavish Leadership

Akina sheds light on the vast economic disparities within the Unification Church. While Reverend Moon and his closest associates amassed considerable wealth through various businesses and media ownership, ordinary members were often subjected to unpaid labor, long working hours, and financial exploitation through compulsory tithing.

Akina Cox [53:32]: "They were putting their henchmen in charge... they were just like a lot of church members who are working for nothing or either volunteering their time or working for church businesses, making hardly anything."

Political Influence and Media Manipulation

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around the Unification Church's strategic political maneuvering, including the establishment of The Washington Times newspaper. Akina argues that Reverend Moon's investment in media outlets played a pivotal role in shaping conservative politics in the United States, laying the groundwork for modern right-wing movements.

Akina Cox [55:07]: "He started the Washington Times... I feel like MAGA would not exist without Reverend Moon because he started The Washington Times."

Breaking Free: The Path to Questioning

Akina recounts her critical turning point during her college years, where exposure to critical thinking lectures ignited doubts about the church's doctrines. This intellectual awakening led her to confront the inconsistencies and manipulative tactics of the Unification Church, ultimately paving the way for her departure.

Akina Cox [43:12]: "I went back to my dorm room and I tried to read church material, and I was like, oh. Oh, shit."

Current Factions and Continued Influence

Even after Reverend Moon's death in 2012, the Unification Church remains fragmented. Akina discusses how her parents aligned with Sean Moon, Reverend Moon's youngest son, leading to the formation of splinter groups like Sanctuary Church and Rod of Iron Ministries. These factions continue to propagate the church's original ideologies while often adopting more militant stances.

Akina Cox [56:05]: "They got in the news a few years ago because they all had a bunch of AR15s and had this big, like, marriage rededication ceremony. But bring your assault rifle."

Parallel to Contemporary Cult Dynamics

Towards the episode's conclusion, Akina draws parallels between the manipulative strategies of the Unification Church and current political rhetoric, particularly under the Trump administration. She highlights how fear-mongering and demonization of specific groups mirror cult-like tactics used to control and influence public perception.

Akina Cox [40:38]: "It's called the shotgun argument, where they just tell you a lot of random points all at the same time... to kind of stun you and so you don't have a foothold of, like, how to argue back."

Conclusion and Teaser for Part Two

The episode wraps up with a reflection on the lasting psychological scars left by such high-control environments and the resilience required to overcome them. Akina emphasizes the importance of critical thinking and emotional support in breaking free from manipulative groups. She also hints at exploring the intersection of cult dynamics and political climates in the forthcoming second part of her interview.

Akina Cox [67:00]: "I have so many more questions about this. I think this would be a good time to break and pick this back up in the next episode."

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Key Takeaways:

• Recruitment Tactics: The Unification Church employed deceptive and manipulative methods, such as offering free meals and engaging in love bombing to attract new members.

• Economic Disparity: A stark contrast existed between the lavish lifestyles of the church leadership and the unpaid or underpaid labor of ordinary members.

• Political Influence: Strategic ownership of media outlets like The Washington Times allowed the church to exert significant influence over conservative politics in the U.S.

• Psychological Manipulation: Mandatory mass weddings, rigid control over personal relationships, and demonization of outsiders fostered a high-control environment that suppressed individual autonomy.

• Resilience and Recovery: Akina's journey underscores the importance of critical thinking and emotional support systems in escaping and recovering from high-control groups.

Notable Quotes:

• Akina Cox [53:32]: "They were just like a lot of church members who are working for nothing or either volunteering their time or working for church businesses, making hardly anything."

• Akina Cox [55:07]: "He started the Washington Times... I feel like MAGA would not exist without Reverend Moon because he started The Washington Times."

• Akina Cox [40:38]: "It's called the shotgun argument... to kind of stun you and so you don't have a foothold of, like, how to argue back."

---

This episode serves as a vital exploration of how charismatic leadership and manipulative practices can intertwine with cultural and political systems to perpetuate control and influence. Trust Me continues to provide a compassionate and insightful look into the lives of cult survivors, fostering understanding and resilience among its listeners.

Transcript

[Lola Blanc]

This is exactly right.

[Megan Elizabeth]

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[Akina Cox]

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[Unknown]

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Trust me.

Do you trust me?

Would I ever lead you astray? Trust me.

This is the truth.

The only truth.

If anybody ever tells you to just trust them, don't welcome to Trust Me, the podcast about cults and extreme belief and manipulation from two future brides who've actually experienced it.

[Lola Blanc]

I am Lola Blanc and I am Megan Elizabeth.

[Unknown]

Today our guest is Akina Cox, artist and writer who grew up in the Unification Church, also known as the Moonies in Part one. Today we'll talk to her about the background on the church and leader Reverend Moon, how her parents both joined by getting rides from members in the 70s and getting a subsequent invitation to dinner, and what it was like being a member of this group growing up.

[Lola Blanc]

She'll tell us about the mass wedding ceremony that she participated in, how her family moved to the border of north and South Korea, the lavish lifestyle the Reverend Moon was living while its members were often working long hours without pay, and how she began to question the church when she went to college.

[Unknown]

And next week, in Part two, we will talk more about our current political landscape and the Salon article she wrote about the parallels she sees between her upbringing and a cult and the Trump administration's ice crackdowns. Before we get to our guests, we do have a big announcement.

[Lola Blanc]

What is it, Lola?

[Unknown]

Well, Megan, I think you already know this, but for our listeners, we have transitioned to a new home, and we are now at Exactly Right Media.

[Lola Blanc]

So exciting.

[Unknown]

This has been our dream network for so long. We are so excited to make this move and so happy to be back with y' all listening to us.

[Lola Blanc]

Lola, do you know how we got on Exactly Right Media?

[Unknown]

Tell me, Megan.

[Lola Blanc]

I put Exactly Right on my vision board.

[Unknown]

So here we are. And I think that's magical thinking, and.

[Lola Blanc]

I think you're wrong. And that's what we do a lot on this podcast. We think each other are wrong indeed.

[Unknown]

Which is maybe a good transition to explain to y' all who we are. I am Lola Blanc, resident skeptic, and I am somebody who believed in a cult leader myself as a child. I was originally a mainstream, regular Mormon, and then a man swooped in and manipulated my mother. And then I believed that he was a prophet of God and it was a scam. It was a very harrowing experience for my mother. He did prey upon her LDS beliefs, and he has continued to do that with other people until we got out of it. And ever since that experience, which you can listen to the full story of on episode one of his podcast, my mom was our very first guest. But ever since then, I have been extremely interested in how people's beliefs get preyed upon by manipulators and how we are all influenced to believe crazy things and how it happens to people who are incredibly intelligent and wise and thoughtful and curious, because so many of our guests really are like that. So I decided that I wanted to create a podcast that centered the survivors and centered the human experience of it and didn't make it this, like, scarce scary thing, but, like, really showed people what it's like to have that experience. And I was looking for somebody who could share that with me. And I fortunately was introduced to Megan by A mutual friend. And I got to hear a little bit about her story, which she can tell you about.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, I mean, the beginning of this podcast is really interesting. I was sitting with our mutual friend who was very. We're very good friends with him, but we'd never met before. Like for example, we're both going to his birthday tonight. How did we never meet each other?

[Unknown]

That's so weird.

[Lola Blanc]

Anyway, I was sitting with him and he got a text and he was like, oh my God. My friend just asked if I know any therapists who grew up in a cult. And I was a therapist at the time who grew up in a cult and I grew up in the two by twos. It's really exploding into the news right now because it's somehow been kept a secret for more than a hundred years. But some people call it the truth, the way the worker religion, Cunyites, whatever you might call it.

[Unknown]

Oh, I've never heard that one.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, there's a lot to it. We actually have an interview with 2ex2 by twos, Carrie and Kyle Hanks that you can go listen to. So I'm fourth generation on both sides of my family. My parents met through it and very odd growing up experience because it's kind of like being Amish, but you have to live in the normal world and go to normal school, but you just have to kind of look weird. Like you have to be weird enough in the world that people are like, there's something special about you. Is it Jesus? So no television, long skirts, long hair, really scared to hell, lots of, lots of religious trauma. And this podcast has been such a gift because I just keep getting to deconstruct with every episode that we do.

[Unknown]

It's so amazing to be able to hear our guests stories and connect with them and be able to joke about our experiences because that's very important. It can't just be. We can't just live in the darkness. Although sometimes a little darkness is necessary.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, sometimes a lot of darkness, sometimes a little darkness. But I think we always come back to being very life affirming and hopeful and kind of the opposite of what cults teach us to be.

[Unknown]

Yeah, we're all about that Post traumatic growth baby resilience. So for the next segment that we do on this show, the cultiest thing of the week, I ask Megan what the most cult like thing that she experienced that week is. So Megan, I would love to know what your cultiest thing of the week is.

[Lola Blanc]

Well, my cultiest thing was actually something that I read about in one of Akina's articles, which is this woman known as the Maga Grammy. You've heard of her, of course. Her name is Pamela Hemphill. And she went and rioted on January 6, and Trump pardoned her and she said no to his pardon. She said that she was being led by something that was not her critical mind and that she wants to serve her time and not be pardoned. I mean, she did serve her time, but she still, you know, doesn't want the pardon.

[Unknown]

That is so interesting. And I want to have her on so badly.

[Lola Blanc]

I know, me too.

[Unknown]

I mean, yeah, I'd be so curious to know. I mean, and I did read a little bit about that when she first spoke out about that. I'd be so curious to know more about just like, what was going on for her when that happened, how she thinks about everybody else who's gotten the party, you know, like, there's just so much there I want to know more about.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah. One of the interesting things she said that makes it my cultiest thing of the week was that what got her out of her groupthink was that she started engaging with people on X that had different thoughts than her and they were like just being kind of conversational and not accusatory. And she had, you know, interesting good faith dialogues.

[Unknown]

So that's actually also how Megan Phelps Roper, I believe, who was a member of the Westboro Baptist Church. That's also how she began to question and eventually leave that horrible family. Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

I mean, yeah, she was his daughter, so great story. She was also just engaging with people who were having good faith conversations with her.

[Unknown]

Yeah. Not to say that always happens.

No.

But it is really interesting and gives me hope when it does happen.

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

And I think next week's episode, when we talk to her more, she kind of calls back to stuff like this. So, throwing it out this week, what about you? What's your cultiest thing of the week?

[Unknown]

Well, this is another thing we will actually talk more about next week, but I feel I would be remiss in our first proper episode back if I didn't address our current political landscape.

[Lola Blanc]

Of course.

[Unknown]

So, okay, we all know that Trump blames immigrants for all things in the world and, you know, generally anyone on the left and trans people, he uses fear mongering language about them. And now there have been these horrific ICE crackdowns in which people are getting deported en masse at higher rates than ever before. And I will say, like, Democrats were also engaging in too many ICE deportations. But this is now happening at a new level where people are being targeted simply for being brown, and people who have the, quote, wrong perspective or think differently from what Trump wants are also being targeted. These are all extremely culty things that are happening when you are demonizing a group of people and trying to eliminate anybody who is critiquing you. He has used language like wanting to deport the worst. Has used all this.

[Lola Blanc]

Really?

[Unknown]

Yeah, like fear mongering language. And I just want to shout out some statistics here because 72% of the people that have been recently detained by ICE have no criminal convictions. Using their own scale that rates the threat of each detainee, 84% of people detained by ICE were deemed to be level one, which is no threat, of course, if somebody is committing a violent crime, sure. But that's not what's happening here. And I will mention this next week as well. But the idea that immigrants are somehow more criminal than other people is false, and it's actually the opposite, because data consistently shows that undocumented immigrants commit less crimes than people who were born here. A National Institute of Justice study, examining data from the Texas Department of Public Safety found that undocumented immigrants are arrested at less than half the rate of US Born citizens for violent crimes and a quarter the rate of US Born citizens for property crimes. Another report found that immigrants have consistently had lower incarceration than people that were born here. For the last 150 years, this has been true. And meanwhile, the daily average of people being processed into the system has doubled since the beginning of this year because of an arbitrary quota coming from Trump, who wants to enact the biggest mass deportations in history. And now, of course, with this big, stupid fucking bill, we've expanded ICE funding to unprecedentedly high levels. And it is very. It's very alarming. Um, I, like, I would just, would encourage folks, and I know that if anyone listening is a Trump supporter, I probably, probably already lost them. I already lost him.

But.

But I would say, like, what I've been trying to do more of is look at some of what he writes and examine the language and the purpose of that langu. He. He did this, like, crazy Memorial Day post that's just using, like, rapists, criminals, evil murderers, horrible. You know, like, look at the language and what the goal of that language is, and then what is the result that's actually happening? Because what's happening right now is just that, like, people who are working in farms and paying taxes are being sent away for no reason.

Right?

That is not the America that I want to live in.

[Lola Blanc]

Well, as she says in Clueless doesn't say RSVP on the Statue of Liberty.

[Unknown]

That is the correct way to end that comment to end my rant. Yeah, I have no good conclusion. That's the truth. I have no good conclusion. It's very scary. I hope that we all can work together to combat this.

[Lola Blanc]

Well, I think Akina gives us a lot of good perspective on how she grew up and what we can do moving forward. So please listen to this week's episode. Enjoy it, and listen to next week's as well because she gives some really great ideas.

[Unknown]

Yeah, we will talk more next week about how to sort of manage our emotional state and also feel like we're contributing something.

[Lola Blanc]

But for now, let's dig in.

[Unknown]

Let's talk to Akina about her childhood in the Unification Church.

[Megan Elizabeth]

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[Unknown]

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[Akina Cox]

What do stuff they don't want you to know. Buried bones and betrayal have in common. These hosts are all headed to the Caribbean for the first ever true crime voyage on award winning kid. Free virgin voyages and you're invited book [e-mail] truecrime.

[Unknown]

Welcome Akina Cox to Trust me. Thanks for being here in the studio with us today.

Yes, thanks for having me.

Okay, so we have you here with us today because you wrote an incredible article for Salon, right?

Yes.

About how you are seeing parallels between your childhood in a cult and our current administration and some of the behaviors with ice. Let's just start out talking about how you grew up because we have not done an episode on the Unification Church, AKA the Moonies since Steve Hassan, which is years ago at this point. So tell us, how did your parents end up in the Unification Church?

Okay, so I'm a second generation member of the Unification Church, or I was before I left, which means that my parents joined, which is the situation for like a lot of people my age who grew up in the church. A lot of our parents joined in the 70s or late 60s and then we were born, a lot of us in the 80s because Reverend Moon, who was the leader of the Unification Church, he did a lot of arranged mass weddings. Both my parents were hippies and they were born in the mid-50s. So my dad barely escaped getting drafted into Vietnam and he was just hitchhiking across the country and he met someone who was chatting with him and told him about world peace and, you know, all these great things they could do together. And then he went to get some free dinner with this guy and then. Yeah. Then went to that second location.

Yeah. What a like quintessential. What year was that? Do you know?

It was, I'm guessing, like 73.

Yeah. I mean, when people were hitchhiking, a guy picks you up, hitchhiking, tells you about world peace and feeds you into a cult. Yeah.

And feeds you.

[Lola Blanc]

That's exactly.

[Unknown]

And you eat the food they give you. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

Exactly. Exactly.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

I mean, do you know, like, what was going on for him at that time? Was that something he was really like searching for was a message of peace?

Honestly, I feel like his story is kind of emblematic of a larger story of like a bunch of Kids who grew up right after World War II, like my grandparents, my granddads on both sides were in World War II and you know, they came home and didn't really want to talk about it and there was pressure to be perfect and then all of a sudden they're supposed to go off and fight in this Vietnam War, which sounded crazy. And I think there was, they felt like they couldn't trust the dominant culture. Like they, they don't want to trust this government that's sending them off to war to die. So then they're like more open for these other groups coming along, right?

Yeah, I mean it makes so much sense and it makes me think about how this is such, we're in such a cult era again right now because there's such that like resistance to the establishment is very prevalent right now, understandably because the establishment is doing terrible things on so many levels. But yeah, I mean, we'll get into that later. But like just hearing you say that, I'm like, yeah, that's now.

I know. I feel like when I first left the church and I would talk about my experiences with other people, there was this attitude of like, oh my gosh, that was so like an exotic time, you know, and you just kind of see it through the lens of a film camera, you know, like hippies in LA wearing flowy dresses and talking about world peace and you know, eating vegan food or whatever. And it felt like such a time that was inaccessible, but it now feels like it's come back again where people.

[Lola Blanc]

It'S making a comeback.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I do.

I feel like a connect. I know.

[Megan Elizabeth]

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[Unknown]

Are you shopping for a new laptop while still trying to keep up with technology and AI? Talk about feeling burnt out. But no more. Lenovo.com makes it easier than ever to find the perfect PC. In fact, we'll break it down for you. Step 1 Shop our lineup of AI PCs powered by Intel Core Ultra processors. Because why deal with downloading new software when you can buy a smarter PC that already comes comes with all of the AI features and tools. Step 2 Find the one that fits your passion. Whether you're a creative genius, a research scientist, a hardcore gamer, or a future CEO, no dream is too big. That's the power of Lenovo. With intel inside, you can keep up with your ideas as well as any challenges you may face. Step 3 add to cart and purchase. Oh, if you're a college student or a teacher, make an education account through us and get 5% off your whole order. Shop now at lenovo.com A Better Future is waiting and it needs you.

[Akina Cox]

Calling all true crime junkies this October, the Hosts of Stuff They Don't Want yout to Know, Buried Bones and Betrayal are hitting the high seas on the first ever true crime voyage from award winning kid. Free Virgin Voyages book [e-mail] truecrime.

[Lola Blanc]

What about your mom?

[Unknown]

How did she get so she joined in a similar way. Okay, so she I don't think has been formally diagnosed with anything, but she sees spirits.

She's using air quotes.

Yes. So my theory is that she was off to college. I think she was starting to have some like mental health issues. She came home to Berkeley, California. She didn't really wanna talk about it with her family, understandably. I'm sure she was like not sure how to explain it. Like 70s mental health treatments were not that great. Yeah, right. So then she was like doing homework at the local library, met some guys who wanted to give her a ride home and she took it. A lot of rides happening here and, and they invited her to come by their house for dinner and then.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, so apparently kind of the perfect couple. Yes, they love rides and dinner.

[Unknown]

Which is funny because they're like not great cooks. Like I would expect better food for them.

Low key. I relate. I cannot cook and I do not cook. And if someone was like, I will give you food, I say yes. So that must have been a common tactic to look for people who needed rides.

It was a common tactic. I heard that they often like recruiters would look for people with wearing backpacks because it meant you were, like, going somewhere or in school or in some period of transition. And, I mean, they tried this, like, all day, every day. So I'm sure they talked to, like, a hundred people that day. Right. And my mom is the one that fell for it.

Wow. And before you were born, presumably, was when the mass wedding.

Yeah. So they were supposed to, back in the day, work for the church for many years before you have the option of getting married. It was something like three or seven years. One of those where you're supposed to, like, essentially work for free, and you're, like, volunteering 24 7, living out of a van, either going from, like, city to city, fundraising, selling little tchotchkes and trinkets and saying it's, you know, for your world peace or for your youth group or whatever, or they were living out of these church centers and just recruiting people from the nearby city. And so they did that for several years. And then they got married in the famous Madison Square Garden blessing. Well, we call it blessing. It's a mass wedding ceremony. I think that was 1982.

[Lola Blanc]

I mean, it blows my mind how.

[Unknown]

Big this it was. Can you tell us how big their blessing was? Several thousand couples. I want to say 3,000 or 3,000 people.

That's so crazy. Can you just, like, for those not familiar with the Unification Church, also known as the Moonies, they apparently. That saying the Moonies is a derogatory term.

No, I've heard they sometimes go. Or they used to go after people for saying that. Like it's a slur or something. But you can call it whatever you want to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.

I mean, what was this group? Paint a Picture for listeners who don't know.

Yes. So the Unification Church was started by Reverend Moon, Reverend Sun Myung Moon in, I want to say, the 1950s in Korea. So after World War II, there was the Korean War. I think it started around 1950. And he grew up in North Korea. He escaped by essentially walking down to the end of South Korea because, you know, it's kind of like this very long peninsula.

[Lola Blanc]

So we have an exciting origin story from this place.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

Wow.

And I want to say there's like a million asterisks I'm laying in here because a lot of what he said was obviously not true.

Right, right, right.

Like, I heard this story that he, like, crossed the Han river, which is. Or no, maybe it's the Imjin River. Anyway, he crossed this river with a man on his back that he carefully carried him down because this man Wasn't able to walk. And there's, like, a picture of it, like, in a bunch of church centers. Turns out it's not the same guy. It's like, not Reverend Moon in that picture. It's like someone else, whatever.

Just relying on white people's racism.

Well, it was like. It was a very blurry, like, black and white picture from the 1950s. So. Yeah. So, like, everything is wrong.

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

But from his perspective.

[Unknown]

From his perspective, he went to the South Korea. He started preaching. There were a bunch of random cults in that area. Because my theory is, again, when, like, there's crazy upheaval, then there's more room for these cults to come about. And so there were a bunch of other ones. He seems to have gotten some ideas from some cults. He starts to get popular. He's getting in trouble with the law because he says he's anti communist. Maybe the problem was bigamy. So anyway. But he is getting bigger and bigger. He moves to the states in 1971 and starts, like, going on these big speaking tours and getting lots of people to come. And kids just start dropping out of high school joining. It kind of started a moral panic. And we have people, like deprogrammers who started kidnapping people who are in the cult because they're, you know, their parents were just like, where did these guys go?

[Lola Blanc]

That was one of the most interesting things about your story to me, was that the deprogrammers for your parents became kind of a repeatable story of, like, we escaped the deprogrammers.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

Can you say a little bit more about that?

[Unknown]

Okay. So I grew up with these stories of my mom trying to smooth things over with her family, being like, it's fine. I'm in this group. Don't worry about me. Okay. I'll meet up with you. According to her, my grandmother did hire deprogrammers to come and kidnap her. And she, like, acted like everything was fine. And then my mom ran away as soon as she could and made her way back to a church property. Yeah.

The thing I'm just finding so fascinating with this story and also with everything these days is North Korea, obviously very cult like culture.

Yeah.

You escape that, you start a cult. Deprogrammers getting people out of the cult in that era were very much their own cult dynamic.

Yeah.

Were, you know, like, in essence, like, very abusive a lot of the time.

Yeah.

Why can't we just respond to a cult culture by not creating a new one? It's so why is it so hard for us?

[Lola Blanc]

It's A cult within a cult within a cult within a cult.

[Unknown]

It's just never ending. We react. Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

And it's just so interesting, the narratives that we make about what happened. Because to your mother, this was like a heroic story.

[Unknown]

Like, I escaped the deprogrammers, which probably was partly valid.

Totally. I later heard from another family member that it happened, like, according to them, like, much more relaxed. And, you know, they just wanted to talk to my mom, but my mom saw them and thought, I'm about to be kidnapped.

Right.

And so they were actually, like, on a boat. And my mom, like, jumped over the side, according to her, and just, like, swam away. What? When no one was looking.

Wow. But, yeah, so. But that was before you.

That was way before I was born, I think, when I came along. Well, first of all, when people got married in the church, if you're legally married to someone, then if they have, like, a psychotic break or if there's something wrong with them, then their spouse is in charge of them. Right. So once my mom got married, my grandparents couldn't really try and kidnap her anymore. Because I think what they were doing with the duprogrammers was they were kidnapping them, bringing them to a favorable judge who would say, this person can't make decisions for themselves. And then they would have to get treatment.

[Lola Blanc]

I see.

[Unknown]

Or, you know, they would have to at least be under their parents, like.

[Lola Blanc]

Legal, like a Britney Spears in a.

[Unknown]

Good way or something. Yeah, yeah. Yes. So you can't really do that if someone is married, because then it's just their partner that becomes insecure.

[Lola Blanc]

And now the partner's also in the group.

[Unknown]

So they're. So between that and then me being born, I think my grandparents were like, okay, we just wanna, like, let's see if we can, like, not be. All be friends, but, you know, not try and kidnap her anymore so that we get to see our grandkids sometimes.

Right. So what were some of the beliefs of the group?

So. So it's kind of Christian and kind of weird.

That describes, like, almost all of them.

So many, like, I feel like it's, like, very, like, Mormony adjacent, where you're like, oh, we have the Bible. Then we have this other book.

Right.

And this other book says this other guy is the new. Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

Cause he was prophety.

[Unknown]

He was like, well, Reverend Moon said he was the Messiah.

[Lola Blanc]

He was Jesus back in a new form. Because Jesus took a timeout when he got crucified.

[Unknown]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

So he was picking it back up from there.

[Unknown]

Yeah. Jesus pleaded with him to take over when he was 15. And he graciously accepted.

[Lola Blanc]

That was so nice.

[Unknown]

So sweet. Yeah. So he said everyone has to be married because that is the way to erase original sin. And then you can, if you go to a blessing and you have babies, then your kids are gonna be born without original sin. Oh, perfect.

[Lola Blanc]

Perfect way to create more members.

[Unknown]

Yeah, yeah.

So that was the gist of it. There was like a lot of other stuff. Like there's evil spirits everywhere and we're in a battle between good and evil. And there was a sociologist who coined the term doomsday cult. And it was about the Unification Church. It's just. It's a very kind of a textbook cult. And a lot of textbooks were actually written about it in the 70s. Cause I feel like it came into prominence like while sociology, like was kind of really having a moment. So also the term love bombing was invented by the church. It was like really into like being really nice to people and getting them to join the cult.

So these marriages were arranged, right?

They were all arranged in the church.

What were other forms of control that the church had over people's lives?

I'm like, what wasn't? I mean, in the beginning, people all lived together in like communes kind of. When I was like a baby, they started, people started to move out. Cause we were all supposed to move away and start our own little outposts essentially. But we all woke up really early on every Sunday morning to recite a pledge at five in the morning where we reiterated. It was almost like the Pledge of Allegiance, but it was longer. And it was to the church or.

To Reverend Moon, do you remember?

Changed around a little bit. So like every five or ten years it would change the words. There was something about blood, sweat and tears. There was something about vanquishing your enemy.

Oh yeah, yikes.

Yeah, it was like. It was a little bit more hardcore when I was a kid. And then I feel like it tried to get a little softer when I was older.

But you know, wow, interesting. And like, were these instructions coming from Reverend Moon or was there local leadership?

There was local leadership, but it was very much a top down situation where we weren't supposed to really differ in any way from each other.

[Lola Blanc]

What were your thoughts about it? How did you like.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

How did you feel about it?

[Unknown]

I feel like when I was a kid there was just so many opportunities to do something wrong that I was really caught up in the like, you know, you weren't supposed to date, you weren't supposed to. You're supposed to not really talk about the church to most outsiders.

[Lola Blanc]

This is like the group I grew up in. This is like the two by twos.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

We're not supposed. We're supposed to act so different that people go, what group are you in?

[Unknown]

Oh my God. Same. No.

[Lola Blanc]

Okay, so yeah.

[Unknown]

Yes. And then there's this whole idea that there's like evil spirits everywhere and you have to appease them or you're. Or you're like fighting them or whatever you know, you have to do that would scare you.

[Lola Blanc]

Evil spirit. She.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

Are you talking about my sleep paralysis demons? Yeah.

And I feel like there's something similar with Mormons, where Mormons, they baptize dead people. But we wouldn't marry dead people.

You'd marry dead people?

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

I'm sorry, what do you mean?

[Unknown]

So ostensibly you would like go and pay for them to get blessed. Like you would say, oh, my grandparents died before they could get married in the church. I will pay money. And then in the spirit world, they'll.

Be married and so they'll be saved.

So they'll be saved because they can go to heaven.

Are dead people marrying other dead people?

So mostly. But.

[Lola Blanc]

Why are we laughing?

[Unknown]

Because you know what's coming. When I was like eight, I went to a masked wedding. I was in the nosebleed section. Cause it's often happens in stadiums. Yeah. And I saw like, you know, rows of big girls wearing pretty dresses, which was exciting. And then at some point I hear the announcer saying like, so and so is getting married to Buddha. So and so is getting married to St. Francis. So and so's. I don't know, just like listing off all these famous dead people that are getting married. Two women who were on the stage. Wow. And I was so far away. I didn't see that. These were like 80 year old women who were just like getting married to a dead person.

Oh my God.

I thought, I thought like, I was like, oh, is that an option for me? Am I going to like apply to be.

[Lola Blanc]

Marry Elvis or something?

[Unknown]

Yeah. And they'll be like, here's. I don't know, general patent or something, you know, like, I was like, are they gonna, like, I don't. How do you check a box to make sure you're not given a dead person? Because I don't want that.

[Lola Blanc]

That would have kept me up at night.

[Unknown]

Yeah, yeah.

That was a little scary. Yeah.

Aside from that, Was it exciting? Like, what was that like seeing those ceremonies?

They were long, boring. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

It wasn't like going to a pop concert.

Okay. So apparently Whitney Houston was supposed to sing at one of the Blessings in Washington, D.C. in like the late 90s, and she backed out last minute. And I was there and I would have been so excited to see her.

I'm so sorry.

Freaking jerk.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, that might be one of the.

[Unknown]

Worst things that happened in the story.

[Lola Blanc]

Just kidding.

[Unknown]

No, it's so traumatic.

[Lola Blanc]

I mean, how is he choosing who marries who?

[Unknown]

So for my parents, it was like everyone who was eligible and whose central figure or their local pastor said it was okay. They would go to a big room and there'd be like, women on one side, men on the other, and you just go down, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. Kind of just like be like, you and you. Or maybe you and, like, just take a second. And then when I came along, it was supposed to be. Well, he still arranged people in person sometimes, but he was kind of retired from that. You could also just send in your picture and they would pick out a picture of a dude and send it back to you.

How many of these marriages were successful, do we know?

Well, according to the church, they were very successful. So I did end up going to one when I was 21, I wanna say. And of all my friends who were in one, most of them have gotten divorced, obviously.

That makes sense.

Yeah. And there's like a couple of us left, and then there's like a couple of people who are, like, still really in the church and have a bunch of kids. Wow. Yeah.

We went to one. Do you remember that?

No. You went to a.

You don't remember?

No. Wow. Wait, you went to what?

We went to a Unification Church Sunday service. Out of curiosity, because it was like when we first. First first started the podcast and we hadn't even aired yet.

In Pasadena, possibly.

It was in like. I thought it was in more of like an outskirts town, maybe, but it might have been.

Yeah.

Like, we were thinking maybe we would do an episode on it, but it was so boring that there just wasn't enough to talk about.

[Lola Blanc]

That's a tactic, don't you think? Where it's just like. Because I feel like again, the two by twos kind of do that. They make it so boring that you're like hypnotized and somehow they're not really saying anything, but you think they've said something smart.

[Unknown]

Yeah. Well, that's what I talked about in the essay was I was noticing that Trump kind of also does that. It's called the shotgun argument, where they just tell you a lot of random points all at the same time. And the point is not to overwhelm you with their intellect, but just to kind of stun you and so you don't have a foothold of, like, how to argue back.

[Lola Blanc]

Right.

[Unknown]

It's so fascinating.

Yeah, yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

And it works because you just disassociate so much and it just goes straight into your brain.

[Unknown]

That's so interesting to me, though, because I feel like the people who seem to want to stay in the cults the most are the ones who are having more heightened emotional experiences.

[Lola Blanc]

But mine was like, the fear was going straight into my anxiety. The anxiety was. But like, the thoughts weren't going through my critical mind. I was just beamed with fear. But it didn't make sense what they were even saying, because it doesn't make sense.

[Unknown]

Mormon church used to be three hours long when I was growing up, and it was so fucking boring. But sometimes, like, a missionary would go up or you'd have an engaging bishop and he would like, start crying. And I don't know why I'm saying he. I feel like I only remember it being men for some reason.

Yeah.

But somebody would go up and bear their testimony and it'd be really moving. And those would be the talks that I'd be like, I believe in this church. It wouldn't be. The boring guys ever give me a testimony.

When I was a kid, when it was like, time for that at camp, I'd be like, yes, tell me your life story.

[Lola Blanc]

Were you into it? Were you like, I want to give my testimony. I love this church.

[Unknown]

Well, so when I was a kid again, I feel like I was just mostly anxious all the time because there were so many ways to sin or do something wrong or, you know, and. And my parents were like, you know, had anger issues and were abusive in different ways. So I was more like just like survival mode and like, okay, yeah, let me try and do everything perfectly to, you know, fit in here. And when I was 16, I did have a moment where I was like, oh, I think there's something to this chur. Interesting. And I, like, got really into it for like, I feel like a year or two. That was also a time where. So we're skipping ahead a bit. But I had been raised on the Jersey Shore mostly. And then my parents. Cause my mom had a vision from God, decided to move us to Korea. This was in the year 2000. And she moved us to the border of north and South Korea. Korea, so, so close that we could like, hear the North Korean speak loud system. Wow. Yeah, it was very close. And we Were in the middle of nowhere. Like, absolutely in the middle of nowhere. And, like, you had to walk two miles through rice paddies to get to a bus station. And I think part of me was just like, almost had this moment where I was like, okay, I need to, like, belong here, otherwise I'm gonna lose my mind.

Right, that makes sense.

So I got really into it, and then I went to college and I heard a lecture about critical thinking, about, like, how to tell what kind of arguments people are using against you. Like the strawman fallacy or whatever. It was just like a one hour lecture, but I remember reading it or, like, listening to the lecture and being like, oh, my gosh, this is great. I will understand more about the church through this because I'll be able to make these questions. Critical arguments in support of the church. Wow. And then I went back to my dorm room and I tried to read church material, and I was like, oh. Oh, shit.

Oh, no.

[Lola Blanc]

What did that feel like?

[Unknown]

I just. I took my books, my church books, and I just threw them in the back of my closet and I was like, I'm not gonna think about this for a little bit.

[Lola Blanc]

That sounds like a good. That sounds like a good plan, to be honest. Yeah, that's what I would do too. It's for later.

[Unknown]

Yeah. So then it took me a few more years, and then, like, finally there was a moment, like, in my mid-20s where I was like, okay, now it's time to leave.

[Lola Blanc]

Wow. Wow.

[Unknown]

What a great argument for having critical thinking classes in school.

I know.

I want to go back a little bit, though, because before you moved away, you were in New Jersey. Were you on, like, a compound?

No. So when I was born, my parents lived in the New Yorker hotel in midtown Manhattan, which is a building owned by the church. And, like, a bunch of church families lived in it at the time. And then Reverend Moon was like, you all need to leave because you need to, like, start your own outposts. Because if we're all together, we can't get more people to join the church. So my parents moved an hour south to the Jersey shore, and I grew up mostly there, but then we would do church stuff on the weekends or in the summers. But then during the week, I sometimes was going to public school and just had to, like, pretend I was normal, which was impossible. Wow. Yeah, it was impossible. It was like, you relate so hard. I know. Yeah. Well, at least you have a normal name. My name is Akina. And this was the 90s on the jersey shore. You know how many Laurens I went to school with. Yeah, yeah. And I was like. And they were like, what's your name? Akina. Why are you wearing like weird baggy stained clothes like, or like just like big clothes to hide your body? Cause you're modest and.

Oh, was that a thing?

Yeah, girls are the devil. And you know, we. Sure, sure, yeah, blah blah. As we all know.

[Lola Blanc]

As we all know.

[Unknown]

Yes. So would that like if I were walking down the street in the 70s, would I be able to identify who the Moonies were?

You probably wouldn't.

Okay.

But there were giveaways. There was like a lot of times they were selling flowers on street corners of the city or. Yeah, that was the biggest thing was they were like selling things like little trinkets. But I feel like I can, I'm like, I can tell because oftentimes if someone was getting blessed, they would wear a blessing ring. And so it's like, there's like little tells. If you are a church member, I can also tell.

[Lola Blanc]

And no one else from your church. Yeah. And other members wouldn't be able to tell, but I'm like, oh that.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

And I'll ask and they'll usually be.

[Unknown]

I was convinced I had that power as well. For Mormons. I did identify successfully other Mormon children in random places, like multiple times.

[Lola Blanc]

I'm sure they loved that.

[Unknown]

No, it was like a bonding thing.

Oh, okay.

[Lola Blanc]

But you were a child as well.

[Unknown]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, I thought this was you as.

[Unknown]

A daughter going Mormon child.

She's in a playground, parents are calling the cops.

That would be like, hey, a fellow 12 year old who looks awkward here. And they often had CTR rings. That was one of our giveaways. Choose the right. Every kid had a CTR ring.

[Lola Blanc]

Amazing. Well, I mean in the two by twos they say that we can tell each other because of the spirit and it's not because of the bun or.

[Unknown]

The, or the long dress.

[Lola Blanc]

Long dress and the like very specific type of long dress. It's the spirit. So keep that in mind.

[Unknown]

Yeah. So you were allowed to go to college. So what was the policy on or the thinking on outsiders versus us?

So outsiders were being controlled by Satan.

Sure.

Uh, oh, and. And we needed to like win them over, but they needed to be approached very carefully and they were essentially our enemy. But they didn't know that. And so it was very confusing for a kid to navigate. Yeah, I was allowed to go to college, you're right. But it was frowned upon. And a lot of my friends went and did like a two year Program, at least in between very. Again similar to Mormons. It's like Mormons with the Asian twist or something. But they were doing a two year program where they were going out, not so much to proselytize, although that did happen, but again to fundraise and make a shitload of money for the church. Cause they were just like cute 18 year olds. They were just sending out to random street corners in random cities with like a bucket of wind chimes or flowers and being like, you know, selling them in cash for 12 hours, 16 hours a day. So a lot of people are pushed to do that. My parents are a little bit strange in that they were very devout, but they did not want me going on that program. There were kids who were badly injured and in a couple of cases were killed on that program. How so? There were a few fatalities because they were sending out teams of these teens in vans and they were working sometimes for 24 hours. Like they would sometimes do like it was almost like a fasting thing where they would, instead of fasting, they would be just fundraising for 24 hours. They were insanely sleep deprived, driving these large vans. So there were a couple, at least one or two car crashes. Then they had also sent out a teenager and she was murdered because she like knocked on the wrong door.

Oh my God.

Yeah. So I had at the time been trying to get my parents to let me go on this mission because like all my friends were going and I was so tired of being like the only church kid at a school school and not knowing anyone. And I had wanted to go. And then I was like, oh, they're never gonna let me go. But yeah. So to my knowledge, that program is still going on today.

Oh really?

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

Well, that leads me to a question I have about the Moonies and money. Like where. Yeah, what was happening?

[Unknown]

I feel like that's a really good question. And I feel like the story is under told even though it's been like right under our noses the whole time. So basically ever since the 70s when Reverend Moon was here, he was like starting businesses and like putting his henchmen in charge. So there was like nominally not super related to the church, but definitely related to the church. And so he was like plowing this money back into the church and back into these businesses. And then with those profits, he was also donating them to politicians to think tanks. Really. He started a right wing newspaper decades ago called the Washington Times. So he's like kind of the story behind maga, in my opinion is that like, I don't think MAGA would exist without Reverend Moon because he started the Washington Times. He gave a voice to these Republican conservative politicians. He gave them tons of money, they would do things. Like I even noticed, we spoke about January 6th. I even noticed on January 6th, Matt Gaetz got up in front of Congress and said, oh, it was antifa who was in charge of January 6th. The Washington Times said so. And he had an article from them with him. And so I feel like they've done that a lot. Like they would write an article and like either Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity would pick it up in the 90s or the 80s or. And then like some congressman would use it as something they could point to and it feels like, to give them as evidence. Yeah. Validity.

[Lola Blanc]

It feels like family values were really.

[Unknown]

At the core of the message. It was very much anti communism. And then it became like, yeah, traditional family values and anti gay, anti feminist. Just a bunch of boring dudes screaming, really. And just like causing a lot of trouble. Not only in America, but they've done this to other countries as well where they just really, I feel like, are responsible for a right wing lurch.

Like by buying up a media.

Yeah, by buying it up, by starting it. Like Reagan said the Washington Times was his favorite newspaper and he read it every.

Wow.

Yeah.

The amount of influence that you can have when you buy a frickin newspaper. Yeah, it's wild.

Yeah. And for a long time, like they were there before Fox Media. They were there before Oan. Oan started in their offices, Fox News. Like they have Washington Times contributors on there. They kind of like were the mama newspaper to like birth all these like shitty conservative, like media companies. Yeah. So they're all connected.

Wow, that is fascinating.

And more than that, he like gave money to Reagan. He was like very involved with the Bush family. Reverend Moon, he gave them tons of money. Even though Reverend Moon died in 2012, the Unification Church, like, they paid Trump to speak at one of their things. Just like a few years ago, like.

[Lola Blanc]

In 2020, Bush spoke at one of them.

[Unknown]

Bush spoke a lot. Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

Like they were locked in.

[Unknown]

They were locked in with Bush.

[Lola Blanc]

He taking money for himself. Was Reverend Moon, like livin lavish?

[Unknown]

He's very much a Trump guy in that he bought up a crapload of properties in the 70s, like a whole university in Connecticut, farms in Hawaii, a seminary in upstate New York, a skyscraper in midtown Manhattan, as one does. Yeah. He and his family had property everywhere.

And like, was he enriching? Like, was he living a very lavish lifestyle? Himself.

Yeah, yeah, golden toilet. I don't know about the toilet situation. I know he had like helicopters and, you know, his wife was always head to toe, like designer gear.

[Lola Blanc]

But the members were not living lives.

[Unknown]

No, the members were working for nothing. Like, I heard from someone who did work at the Washington Times when it started that they were ostensibly paid, quote, air quotes, they were paid for their time working, but they would be handing out the checks on a Friday and be like, hey, does anyone wanna, like, money is tied. Get paid this week? Yeah, does anyone wanna tithe? And like, so you'd have to like, tithe in front of your co workers through your. All church members. So they were just like a lot of church members who are working for nothing or either volunteering their time or working for church businesses, you know, making hardly anything, which is so common.

And I wonder, like, was there any chatter about that disparity and that being, was that a problem for anyone?

I don't remember hearing about that. Cause I remember hearing like, well, Reverend Moon is like the biggest king of them all, so he should, like. And he's meeting with presidents, he's meeting with kings and queens. He needs to like, be at their level. Oh, of course.

[Lola Blanc]

That would make sense.

[Unknown]

You're like, where do I sign?

Take all my money. I will live in poverty.

Yes. Right.

Wow. So interesting. Okay, so did your parents, did they remain in the church?

They remained, but around when Reverend Moon died in 2012, like in the couple years leading up to that, his large family kind of exploded into factions. And my parents went with the youngest son, whose name is Hyunjin, or he calls himself Sean in America. Sean Moon.

[Lola Blanc]

So the reverend's youngest son, your parents decided to follow, but the wife also.

[Unknown]

Was a leader, right? The reverend's wife. Reverend's wife, yeah.

He was trying to pass her and give like, the power to his sons at first. And she seems to have taken over the kind of main church branch.

It was photos of her on the wall. And they were talking about the mother when we went.

Yeah. So people probably call her. They call her true mother. And so she's, I think, living in Las Vegas or South Korea or both. And she's taken over the main church branch. And my parents are part of a splinter cult now called Sanctuary Church or also Rod of Iron Ministries. And they got in the news a few years ago because, like, do you guys know this? They. They got in the news a few years ago because they were all had a bunch of AR15s and had this big, like, marriage rededication ceremony. But bring your assault rifle.

[Lola Blanc]

Whoa.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

Okay, this sounds familiar.

Yeah. If you go. Yeah. If you Google sanctuary church.

I'm looking for pictures. Oh, my God.

It's probably a picture of my dad. You're probably looking at a picture of my dad.

It's a bunch of old ladies.

Okay. Maybe my mom.

[Lola Blanc]

This is wild.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

Why did they choose him, do you think?

[Unknown]

Okay, so when my parents moved to South Korea with me when I was a teenager, my dad started an English speaking service in Seoul. There were, like, a few expat church members out there, but there wasn't really a place for them. And then Sean Moon moved to Seoul and he started his own, and then they combined. And so by the time this break happened, my parents and him had been working pretty closely for, I wanna say, like, almost 10 years. Like, more than five. And so it was very natural for them to go with him.

[Lola Blanc]

I see.

[Unknown]

Splinter groups are endlessly fascinating to me. There's so many Mormon offshoot. Like, there's just. There are so many. How do you decide which profits?

[Lola Blanc]

The profit just started as we're speaking.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

And it should be a BuzzFeed article that's like, which offshoot?

[Lola Blanc]

Which offshoot would you belong in? Which kind of sourdough bread are you?

[Unknown]

Please pitch that.

Okay.

[Lola Blanc]

I'm curious if when the reverend died, if there was any legend around him being immortal or if this was shocking or if it changed anything.

[Unknown]

So not a ton.

[Lola Blanc]

Okay.

[Unknown]

There was this idea that, like, he had really wanted north and South Korea to unite before he died. And there was, like, this big church event that happened around then that they were hopefully trying to work for. So it's like, no, it wasn't one of those cults where they were like, he's never gonna die. Okay.

[Lola Blanc]

Okay.

[Unknown]

But I think there were. I think if they weren't lying to themselves, they would have said they had hoped for something more to happen before he died. That makes sense.

Yeah. So you have this crack when you go to college.

Yeah.

Was there something specific that led you to, like, revisit some of those doubts?

So I tried to ignore it because even though I had been, like, friendly with outsiders, I didn't have anyone. I, like, really relied on anyone. Like, I was so used to just, like, faking my life around them. So it was like, oh, if I believe this, I lose my family and my community. And I did not want that. So I ignored it. I got married in the church.

Was it a mass wedding?

Yeah.

Oh.

But my husband and I were supposed to have an arranged marriage. But we already knew each other and we already liked each other. And so then when our parents were like, how about this person? We were like, okay. But we were like, secretly making out. And then we went through the blessing and everyone was like, you guys, like, this is a sign that the blessing really works, Reverend.

[Lola Blanc]

Really worked a miracle.

[Unknown]

Yeah, well, because when we came along, sometimes your parents could also bless you. So we like. So our parents, they, like, chose us, but I see. Yeah.

How many couples were there?

So they said 400 million because they were counting dead people. Oh, cool. I don't know how many. I was looking this up the other day because I was like, how many were there? And it was like, no, there was 400. Were there even 400? I don't know. And so I think there was like a couple thousand, maybe a thousand.

[Lola Blanc]

That's wild. That's wild. This is wild.

[Unknown]

Do you have a photo of it?

I do have some photos. They're like blurry and you can be like, there's Akina, like in that row. Wow.

What did it feel like?

It felt kind of terrible. I've been thinking about it lately because now I'm 40 and you know, I got blessed when I was 21 and I thought I was an old maid. I thought I was a spinster. Oh, my God, you guys. There were girls who were getting blessed that I had babysat, who were like 16.

[Lola Blanc]

Wait, what girls were getting married at 16?

[Unknown]

Yeah, just a few of them.

Oh, no.

I know. It was one of those things where, like, I've been sitting with him thinking about it a lot lately and I'm like, that was like, way more traumatic than I remember, which is like, is not all of our childhood, especially the cult. The cult life. But you're like, oh, we were all coerced into that. Like, like, even though I loved the person I was getting married to, I was like getting married with all these people. A lot of them I didn't know. And he and I, I don't think we would have ever chosen to be married at that young age, even though we liked each other a lot. And then all the, all the girls, the night before, I was like, we were in a dormitory and I just remember girls running around and like crying like they didn't know their partner. They were like 20 or 19 and had just gotten off of a van where they were fundraising for a year and they were told like, this is the guy. And some of them were crying. Yeah. And then there were like 16 year olds or, you know, 19 year olds. I Don't know. Remember anyone, like, older than us that was, like, you know, even in their mid-20s? Wow. Yeah. It was really brutal. Yeah.

That's devastating. What if you get someone with bad breath also?

Yeah. There's like, so many jerks and, like, just so many. And like, you're wearing, like, there were so many ugly dresses too.

[Lola Blanc]

Could you pick out your dress?

[Unknown]

I actually. We were able to. I've heard now you can't pick out your dress. You just have an ugly dress that your mother up, picks, picks out for you.

Terrible.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, okay.

[Unknown]

My dress was kind of cute. It was like, asymmetrical ruching. Oh, my God. That sounds cute. Okay. Okay.

[Lola Blanc]

Well, then I guess it's all time.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I feel better.

Never mind. Wow.

[Lola Blanc]

I mean, do you still keep in contact with people?

[Unknown]

Some. I still keep in contact with some of my good friends. Like the girl who was sitting, like, to my right when we were getting blessed. We still talk. So when we were growing up, they called us blessed children because we were from the blessing. And we were told that we were all brothers and sisters, and so we had to really take care of each other. And so that kind of made it almost easier to leave because I remember some of my friends telling me, like, I have a secret boyfriend, or I, you know, I might be gay or I don't something. And I remember thinking, like, it was drilled into me that this is my brother or sister. Like, I am. That bond is gonna remain. And even when I thought I was a true believer, if people came and told me things like I made out with a guy, I don't know what to do. I would absolutely hold their secrets and, like, not tell anyone. And so I feel like, you know, I'm not friends with everyone from the church or, you know, like, I feel like I have a lot of good feelings towards everyone. Like, I know what a terrible childhood we all had, and I wish everyone the best, even if I'm not in contact with them. But I still. I feel like I still love everyone. Wow.

It sounds somewhat unique in that, you know, so much of the time we hear about a culture within a cult of ratting on everyone, like, being required to rational.

There was definitely, like. Yeah, there was definitely a lot of trauma that we all had to do. I think for me, even, like, if we were acting kind of shitty to each other when we were teens or, you know, like, some, like, some girl, like, ratted me out for, like, having not dress code at camp, I was still a little bit annoyed with her.

[Lola Blanc]

Still a little resentment There.

[Unknown]

But I'm like, we were all teens. Like, what else were we gonna do?

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

You know, like, I feel like I absolutely have forgiveness in my heart for any other blessed child, and I'm sure I offended or hurt other people, and I would definitely be happy to ask for forgiveness. I feel like I have a harder time forgiving a lot of the first generation who raised us in this. I'm like, I know you were damaged, and that's why you joined. But honestly, like, what the hell, guys? Yeah, right, right.

[Lola Blanc]

One of the other things that you said that really interested me was how demonized therapy was.

[Unknown]

Oh, yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

And how that's just a warning that you're probably in a high control group. Can you say a little bit more about that?

[Unknown]

Yeah. So it wasn't just therapy. It was, like, kind of like, all medical professionals were a little bit treated suspiciously, especially therapists, because I think because they were so scared of the church in turn. But I did go get regular checkups when I was a kid. I think a lot of that was also, like, I was going to public school, and I needed to get back. I did have a health, like, health issues that, like, kind of got ignored for a while. A lot of people didn't even go to regular doctors. It was like, don't even go if you have cancer. And there's actually, like. It feels like a very huge crossover between that and, like, the rfk.

[Lola Blanc]

I was just gonna say.

[Unknown]

Yeah, because there's, like, people being like, you can pray your cancer away or just drink this special tea or whatever. You know, there's a lot of that, too.

So it wasn't necessarily specifically, don't talk about your emotions with a person because it might expose us. It was more just like the.

Oh, no, I think that was still there. It was just everything.

I have so many more questions about this. I think this would be a good time to break and pick this back up in the next episode.

[Lola Blanc]

She's so cool.

[Unknown]

I know. I know. Also, I want her to be a voice actor.

[Lola Blanc]

I just want her to be my friend.

[Unknown]

Well, that, too.

[Lola Blanc]

I asked her when you went to the bathroom. She seemed hesitant.

[Unknown]

Come out a little strong. Okay. Megan, would you join the Unification Church?

[Lola Blanc]

Okay, so if it's the 70s.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Lola Blanc]

I think I might go on. I like flowers. Freedom.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Lola Blanc]

There was a lot of, like, we're not working for the man. Like, we're gonna live on a commune and be in the sun and make our own garden. I'd like that.

[Unknown]

Make our own garden. Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

I just feel like, there's a garden there.

[Unknown]

You just decided they had. There was a garden involved somewhere.

[Lola Blanc]

I just would like it. I just think I would like it. I like. It sounds like it started with things.

[Unknown]

That I would like.

[Lola Blanc]

I wouldn't like him, probably the reverend.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

But I can just see myself being swept away and maybe some of the excitement of selling trinkets on the street and getting hitchhikes and free meals and I. I would join it. I just know I would.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I could see that for you for sure.

[Lola Blanc]

I know.

[Unknown]

It's just. It's so. I'll never. I'll never stop being fascinated by this sort of like, hippie, Christian cult combination. Yes.

[Lola Blanc]

Endlessly fascinating hippie.

[Unknown]

Just like my idea of what it meant to be a hippie growing up just seemed so, like the antithesis of being in, like, a strict Christian church. But like, so much of that movement turned into these, like, Christian cults.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah. And that's why you see them having so many weird, different kinds of rules, because they were like, well, then we can do this actually. And we can do this actually.

[Unknown]

It's just like such picking and choosing from this match.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, it's very interesting.

[Unknown]

She referenced in this interview, like, creating a buzzfeed quiz. I think it would be a fun buzzfeed quiz to pick which. Which belief systems you want to pull from and like, create your own.

[Lola Blanc]

Cool. We actually have to do that.

[Unknown]

Does BuzzFeed still exist?

Yeah.

Oh, okay. Shout out.

[Lola Blanc]

Anyway, thank you so much for listening to this episode. Please rate us 5 stars. If you don't have 5 stars, don't rate us at all. Share it with your friends. And as always, remember to follow your gut. Watch out for red flags and never ever tr.

[Unknown]

This has been an exactly right production.

[Lola Blanc]

Hosted by me, Lola Blanc, and me, Megan Elizabeth. Our senior producer is Jiha Lee.

[Unknown]

This episode was mixed by John Bradley.

[Lola Blanc]

Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain, and our guest booker is Patrick Cotner.

[Unknown]

Our theme song was composed by Holly Amber Church.

[Lola Blanc]

Trust Me is executive produced by Karen Kilgareth, Georgia Hardstark and Danielle Kramer.

[Unknown]

You can find us on Instagram usme podcast or on Tik Tok at Trust Me Cult Podcast.

[Lola Blanc]

Got your own story about cults, extreme belief or manipulation? Shoot us an [e-mail].

[Unknown]

Listen to Trust Me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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