Amanda Rae - The Kingston Clan and Escaping Polygamy

Summary

Trust Me: Cults, Extreme Belief, and Manipulation Episode: Amanda Rae - The Kingston Clan and Escaping Polygamy
Release Date: March 12, 2025

---

Introduction

In this compelling episode of Trust Me, hosts Lola Blanc and Megan Elizabeth delve deep into the harrowing experiences of Amanda Rae, a former member of the Kingston Clan, also known as "the Order." Through Amanda's firsthand account, listeners gain an intimate understanding of life within this polygamous group in Utah, the manipulative practices employed to maintain control, and the arduous journey of escaping such an oppressive environment.

---

Overview of the Kingston Clan

[29:23] Amanda Rae begins by providing a comprehensive overview of the Kingston Clan:

"I was born in it, but obviously, in the later years, because it was in the 90s when I was born. It was actually started, though, in 1935. So it's been around for a while."

The Kingston Clan originated as an offshoot of the LDS Church during Utah's statehood era when polygamy was outlawed. Over the decades, it evolved from a religious movement into a more insular and controlling organization, emphasizing the "pure Kingston bloodline" through practices like intermarrying relatives, including underage girls.

---

Amanda's Childhood

Amanda shares vivid memories of her early life within the Order:

[29:34]

"We called ourselves Order members. Okay, so that was like our term Kingston Clan was kind of coined from the outside world."

Despite being integrated into society, members lived in separate homes to avoid suspicion. Amanda recounts the confusion and deceit surrounding her parentage:

"I was like, who, who's my dad then? I don't understand. And then I asked him... he said no. And so I'm like, well then who the hell is my dad?"

This secrecy extended to everyday aspects of life, including education and family structure.

---

Practices and Beliefs

The Kingston Clan enforced strict doctrines to maintain control:

• Bloodline Purity: Leaders married half-siblings and nieces to preserve what they considered a "pure" lineage. Amanda describes:

  [17:19]

  "And then I think, obviously the most thing that makes people want to watch the Kingston clan, I feel like, is the incest is one of the biggest ones where, like, wait a minute."

• Financial Control: Members signed 10% forms, surrendering control of their finances to the Order's bank.

  [16:10]

  "Consecration, which is give your all to the Lord. So they sign 10% forms, inventory forms. That means that everything they own could potentially be given up."

• Racism and Exclusivity: The Order propagated racist ideologies, teaching that only white individuals could attain heaven.

  [37:08]

  "We were taught that there was a great war in heaven... only white people will be in heaven."

---

Marriage and Polygamy

Polygamous marriages were not only encouraged but enforced to sustain the group's bloodline:

[17:57]

"Including my dad. His third wife is his half sister."

Amanda narrates her personal struggle with arranged marriages within the clan, highlighting the emotional and ethical turmoil it caused.

---

Education and Child Labor

Education within the Order was subpar, with children often forced into labor from a young age:

• Minimal Formal Education: Amanda was homeschooled with little actual instruction.

  [35:09]

  "They put me in homeschool at fifth grade. And I was basically teaching myself. Like, there was no teacher."

• Child Labor: Children as young as second grade were sent to work, with pay discrepancies favoring higher-ranking members.

  [48:39]

  "I'm noticing a pattern that it's always the leader's kids or the leader's brothers and/or sisters' kids."

This exploitation extended to financial manipulation, where members were uncertain about their earnings and had limited access to their funds.

---

Breaking Free: Amanda's Escape

Amanda's escape from the Kingston Clan was fraught with danger and confrontation:

[65:04]

"I ran away. I had been running away a lot, but I really liked this boy who was not Kingston."

Her final attempt to leave involved confronting the Order's financial control by trying to help a friend retrieve his money from the Order's bank. This act of defiance led to a violent altercation:

[67:27]

"He wasn't getting his money out. They weren't letting him get his money out... So he gives me his phone, I go back there, and I start taking pictures."

During this confrontation, Amanda was physically attacked by the leader's brother, resulting in injuries that necessitated police intervention. Despite witnessing the abuse firsthand, Amanda highlights the group's attempts to gaslight and discredit her experience:

[72:03]

"So why doesn't he show that footage to the police?"

---

Aftermath and Healing

Post-escape, Amanda faced immense isolation and the challenge of rebuilding her life:

• Isolation: Being cut off from her family left her feeling alone and anxious.

  [34:32]

  "It was hard, especially when your whole life, you were surrounded by the noise of your siblings."

• Trauma and Therapy: Amanda engaged in extensive therapy to address the emotional and psychological scars left by the Order.

  [65:04]

  "Working through my trauma because I kept going back to the Order topics."

• Emotional Abuse Awareness: She emphasizes the emotional manipulation within the clan, teaching members to distrust themselves and rely solely on the Order's leadership.

  [84:20]

  "If someone is questioning, there’s a reason you’re questioning. And you need to trust yourself enough to let yourself dive into those questions to get the answers that you deserve."

---

Conclusions and Insights

Amanda Rae's story underscores the insidious nature of cults like the Kingston Clan, highlighting how they manipulate, control, and exploit their members through a combination of emotional abuse, financial domination, and enforced conformity. Her journey from indoctrination to emancipation serves as a powerful testament to the resilience of the human spirit and the importance of self-trust and critical thinking.

Key Takeaways:

• Recognizing Red Flags: Strict control over personal finances, enforced conformity, and manipulation of beliefs are hallmark signs of cult behavior.

• Value of External Perspectives: Exposure to the outside world played a crucial role in Amanda's ability to question and eventually escape the Order.

• Healing is Non-linear: Recovery from such traumatic experiences involves ongoing therapy and support, emphasizing that healing is a personal and gradual process.

• Importance of Support Systems: Organizations like Holding Out Help provide essential resources for individuals leaving oppressive groups, aiding in their transition and recovery.

---

Notable Quotes

• Amanda Rae on Financial Control:
  [17:20]

  "The 10% forms means that everything they own could potentially be given up."

• Amanda Rae on Emotional Abuse:
  [84:20]

  "If someone is questioning, there’s a reason you’re questioning. And you need to trust yourself enough to let yourself dive into those questions to get the answers that you deserve."

• Megan Elizabeth on Recovery:
  [81:30]

  "Healing is never linear. It’s part of the work, especially when you were not given the tools in your childhood."

---

Final Thoughts

Amanda Rae's insightful narrative not only sheds light on the dark realities of the Kingston Clan but also offers hope and guidance for those seeking to break free from similar oppressive environments. Trust Me continues to provide a platform for survivors to share their stories with honesty and compassion, fostering understanding and awareness of the complexities surrounding cults and extreme beliefs.

---

Connect with Amanda Rae:

• YouTube: Amanda Ray R A E
• Instagram: Amanda Ray Grant
• TikTok: Amanda Ray Grant
• Podcast: Culty Crew (Under Construction)

Stay Connected with Trust Me:

• Instagram: @TrustMePodcast
• Twitter: TrustMeCultPod
• TikTok: TrustMeCultPodcast

Remember to follow your gut instincts, watch out for red flags, and never stop questioning to ensure your sense of self remains intact.

Transcript

[Megan Elizabeth]

This is exactly right.

[Lola Blanc]

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[Amanda Ray]

Calling all True Crime Junkies this October the hosts of Stuff They Don't Want yout to Know, Buried Bones and Betrayal are hitting the high seas on the first ever true crime voyage from award winning kid. Free Virgin Voyages book [e-mail] truecrime wanna.

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[Trust Me Podcast Host]

If you have your own story of being in a cult or a high.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Control group, or if you've had experience with manipulation or abuse of power that.

[Lola Blanc]

You'D like to share, leave us a.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

Message on our hotline number at 34786 TRUST.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

That's 347868, 7878 or shoot us an.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

Email at trustmepodgmail.com Trust me dude.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

You trust me. Trust me. I'm like a smart person.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, I've never lied to you. I never have lied.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

If you think that one person has all the answers, don't. Welcome to Trust Me, the podcast about cults and extreme belief and manipulation from two public school girls who've actually experienced it.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

I'm Lola Blanc and I'm Megan. Elizabeth.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

I was actually partially a homeschool girl, so not entirely accurate. Today our guest is Amanda Ray, host of YouTube channel by the same name and former member of the Kingston clan, also known as the Order, a polygamous group in Utah. Some of you may remember our previous guest, Priscilla, from the same group. It's not the flds. Both of these ladies were on escaping polygamy, so you might recognize them. Amanda's going to tell us who the Kingstons are, how many mothers she had in her family, and the principle of pure Kingston blood that led to people sometimes intermarrying with relatives, some of whom were underage girls.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

She'll tell us about how her two years of public school helped her think critically about what the cult said about outsiders and people of color versus the reality that they were just normal people. How children as young as nine are sent to work after school, and why the day she left began with a physical altercation with a grown man and the group.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Oh, I feel like we barely scratched the surface. There's so much. There's so much. But it's. It's good. It's good. We'll have her back on.

[Megan Elizabeth]

She.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

She really needs to come back on. She's wonderful. And what a treasure chest full of stories that are unbelievable.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Really also great at makeup. Just like, Priscilla, what is it with these Kingston girls?

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

Like, the. They're so good at makeup.

[Megan Elizabeth]

They're so good at makeup.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Like, teach me. I've been doing the same makeup for literally 20 years.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And I just get.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

Worse at a CA every day of my life. Like, it's like reverse learning. Yeah. So wonderful at makeup and just a wonderful person with a really wild story. So. Love this interview.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Yeah. Before we get into the interview, Megan, what's your cultiest thing this week?

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

I'm sorry, hold on.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

She's moving her cat, guys.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

So, I mean, I'm sure you're hearing a lot about the Ruby Frankel documentaries that are being released about the Mormon blog influencer. The YouTube woman who's just. Her abuse is, like, off the scale. And I've been looking into it and reading it, and it's. It's worse than you thought, like. Cause I'd seen footage of the little boy who finally, like, broke free from the other woman. Jody's home, and he's completely starved, like, wrapped. His wounds are all wrapped in tape, and you're like, oh, my gosh, this is insane. But then you. You keep watching, and it gets worse and worse and worse and crazier and Crazier. So I suggest people take a look into that just to see a tidbit of how things can get really out of control. And then I was also just thinking about how Amanda's story kind of parallels some of my own in weird ways. Definitely was not living in a family that was like inbreeding itself or anything, but I was really lucky that the two by twos, the, that I grew up in allowed us to go to public school and allowed us to go to go to school. And the like whole point of it was like, you have to be this verse in the Bible in the world, but not of the world. So Amish people were wrong because they were wearing these outfits and being so pure, but they weren't in the world. They were hiding in a little farm. So you needed to look like that and act like that, and then you needed to get on the bus and, and go to public school and show everybody what Jesus liked.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

But it wasn't to convert people. It was just if you.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

It was a dream that people would say, you're so different. What is it about you that's making me feel this urge of asking you?

[Megan Elizabeth]

And.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

But that's not how it went. People would be like, flush yourself down the toilet, you stupid bitch. Like, you're a weirdo. So, yeah, I don't know if for the second week in a row I've just given two cultiest things, but those are just what's been weighing on my heart this week, as the two by.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Twos would say as many culty things as you want. Endless culty things.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

But yeah, there are like multiple Ruby Frankel and this YouTube family blogger stuff coming out right now that everybody's talking about. And I can only assume that we're going to see. See a bazillion more families, religious or not, coming out, about how abusive their YouTube family.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, so, yeah.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

Anyway, that's what's been laid on my heart this week, as the two by twos would say. What about you, Lola? What's the cultiest thing that happened to you this week?

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Okay, I swear I will not do this every week. But because we would, this would get very exhausting every week. But I do want to mention some things that are happening in the administration because speaking occulty, I mean, okay, so what do cults do? They control information. They silence dissent. They shrink the world so that only they are the ones with access to the correct information. Politically speaking, this would look like silencing people who are critical of them. It would look like Eliminating dissenting thought in various forms. We talked about that in our Cultural Revolution episode, how intellectuals were targeted and teachers were targeted and that kind of thing. That's very, very common in fascist regimes, which I know is a buzzword, but just stay with me here. So I'm just gonna go down a little list here of some things because it's pretty overwhelming, and I'm okay. The White House banned the Associated Press indefinitely. They took control of what press is and is not allowed in the daily presidential press pool, which is breaking precedent of many years. One of the reasons for the White House Correspondents association to be in charge of those decisions is because we are supposed to have a free press, not just a mouthpiece for whoever's in charge. When the president is in charge of the press pool, then they can make sure that there aren't people there asking them questions, challenging what they're doing. Right. The Trump administration has decided that DEI is this broad evil to be rooted out. They're calling woke ideology the pressing issue of our nation. Not healthcare, not protecting our people, not keeping billionaires out of politics. It's wokeness, guys. It's the biggest issue of our time. And because they have decided to target woke ideology, which we could talk about the reasons for why that is. But my theory is power. But this specter of DEI as an evil to be rooted out has now become the focus, and one of the ways it's become a focus is in science. So they have banned a whole long list of words or flagged them for review because they could be too woke in research papers. Those words include female, black, LGBTQ climate, ethnicity, gender, historically, women, biases, trauma, confirmation bias, and so many more. And I've spoken to several actual scientists about this. One of whom his research paper was pulled because it referred to it was studying transgender mental health. I've also spoken to neuroscientists who have absolutely nothing to do with absolutely anything related to any of these topics. And research, like, as a whole, is just basically, like, shrinking and closing off, and everyone's panicking and things are getting closed. And that's partially for a couple of different reasons. But one of the reasons is no one's research is able to get through because it's virtually impossible to have healthcare research where you don't use words like bias or gender. Because the whole purpose of science is to have to make sure that there isn't bias. Right? That's the whole point of science, obviously. Studying and learning about a group that exists, whether you're interested in learning about that group or not is not indoctrination, but purging information because it doesn't align with how you see the world is indoctrination. That is closing off the access to education and different information. It's ironic to be claiming to be fighting indoctrination and ideology when what you're actually doing is removing science, information, education, and ideas. That difference from yours. And finally, Trump has been calling pro Palestine protests illegal. Protests are quite explicitly legal. They are protected by the First Amendment. I'm happy to read that language, but we don't need to do that here. Peaceful protesting is legal in this country. It's a First Amendment, right? Now, a Palestinian graduate of Columbia University who lives here legally has green card and has been charged of no crimes, was taken from his home by ICE agents on a State Department order, and the agents hung up on his lawyer. They took him anyway. Whatever you think about the protests, this is extremely dangerous. It's an extremely dangerous precedent. It is silencing politically different ideas without actually there being a crime. You cannot just take people because you don't like what they're saying. You just can't do that legally. You cannot do that.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

You can in North Korea, right?

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Do we want to live in North Korea?

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

Exactly.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Do we? So does punishing press who aren't saying what you want them to say, removing research that talks about topics you don't like, broadly banning words that aren't in line with your particular ideology, and arresting protesters who have not actually committed a crime and threatening to arrest many more sound like it's in line with not a cult or democracy, because, I don't know, sounds like something a cult government would do to me. So that's. That's my rant.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

Yeah. I'm very curious to see where all of this will. I mean, curious is the wrong word. I'm very terrified to see where all of this is going to go.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

And here's my obligatory. For anyone who might be, like, not, you know, politically aligned with me, like, of course, the left has had culty moments, and culturally, there have been very culty elements happening here. And I'm not gonna deny that for a second, but it's cultural cultiness is very different from federal government actually controlling your life. Cultiness. These are two very different things, and they're both a problem, but one is much more of a problem. That's my point.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

Yeah. One's much more culty.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

Well, to be determined as how bad it will get.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Indeed. Should we talk to Amanda now?

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

Let's do it.

[Lola Blanc]

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[Amanda Ray]

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[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Welcome Amanda Ray to Trust Me. Finally.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yay.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Thank you so much for Being here, I've known you for years, and we have not done this before, which is crazy. So can you, for our listeners who do not know who the Kingston clan is, can you give just like, a brief overview of what this group is that you were in?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yes. So I was born in it, but obviously, like, in the later years, because it was in the 90s when I was born. It was actually started, though, in 1935. So it's been around for a while. But the short version of what the order is is they're kind of an offshoot of. You know, the original person who started the order was lds, and it's when the Utah was trying to become a state, so they had to, like, outlaw polygamy. And so kind of a lot of a lot of offshoots came around at this time, like FLDS, AUB, the LeBaron Group. Right. So. And the Kingstons was. Was one of them. And it originally wasn't supposed to be a religion, but it kind of evolved into a, you know, God's kingdom on earth. And the main core principles of the teachings are consecration, which is give your all to the Lord. So they sign 10% forms, inventory forms. That means that everything they own could potentially be. Give it up. Right. And of course, the 10 forms means that because the banks are in the order, like, everyone puts their money in a. In the order bank, the 10 is automatically taken out of everything. Oh, wow. Kids's banks accounts, too.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Oh.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Who are also.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh.

[Megan Elizabeth]

So there's that piece. And then I think, obviously the. The most like thing that makes people want to watch the Kingston clan, I feel like, is the incest is one of the biggest ones where, like, wait a minute. Because you'll hear like, FLDS maybe marries cousins. You'll hear that a lot. But in the order, the leader is marrying his half sisters and nieces. So. Wow. Very big. Including my dad. His third wife is his half sister. So my mom was the second one. Yeah, I know. I always have the joke of, like, so he married three wives. The first wife is my mom's sister, and the third wife is his half sister. So it's a bunch.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Oh, my God.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

How many people are in this group? Like, is that why is there a shortage of people? Is that why we're intermarrying?

[Megan Elizabeth]

I think that's why it is common that you'll see in all polygamous groups in Utah. There's going to be some family marrying, cousin marrying, because one like, they no one really want, especially A woman, Is a woman really going to join this? Probably not. So they, there is and then you'll see a lot of men unmarried, in their like 30s and 40s, because if they're not Kingston enough, they're not going to be like awarded a wife. Right. So yeah, it's hard to convert. And also they're not, they're not like LDS where the LDS have the missionaries trying to convert people. They kind of, at least what I was taught was that we were kind of chosen in heaven. It was like a pre chosen decision that we got to be born on the kingdom in the kingdom on earth. Right. So but as a woman's duty in the order in the kingdom on earth is like you're prepped from. I remember in like as early as first grade, they're telling us to pray for our direction of the person that we're supposed to be married to. Like our number one choice. So we're all like praying and hoping that like if you're, if you had best friends. This is so weird. A lot of us have memories of this. If you have best friends, you're like praying that heavenly father will let you marry your best friend's husband so you can be best friends forever.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

I mean, I, I, I hear that slumber party like little nugget in there where I would do the exact same thing. I'd be like, hell yeah. Like, let's get married to the same guy. Be together forever. Wow. So first grade already like praying for that man.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Right? And of course once you go through puberty, you think of it a little different, right? You're like, wait a minute, get away from my man.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wait, so you said there'd be men who'd be unmarried, but it would be because these other men were like taking all the women. So like, was it punishment to not bestow them a wife?

[Megan Elizabeth]

To be honest, I think that this is just like from what I've seen and from what I've heard from older generation members who have left, it seems as though because they teach the whole our, our bloodline is pure and directly descended of Christ. Like we are, we are descendants of Jesus Christ. So it, it feels like they're kind of almost like a cult within a cult and racist against their own members. Like if you're not as pure Kingston as us, then you shouldn't be awarded a wife. And you would always see the marrying up the bloodline. Like because I'm technically Kingston, I was going to have to marry a more Kingston man.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

What would that look like? What does that mean?

[Megan Elizabeth]

So he. They actually had me going out with this guy. Like, it's this process of coming forward. So he has to, you know, get direction from God or whatever, and then go to his parents and then get approval, and then go to my parents, get approval, and then they can come forward, which means they're allowed to, like, kind of, like, take you on a date, but you're not allowed to kiss, hold hands, any of that stuff. And they just kind of present themselves as a choice for marriage for you. But in my case, I really felt like I was just being forced to be with this guy because I. I had vocalized that I didn't want to be, you know, married to him, especially because his parents. So he was so closely related to me because his mom is my dad's full sister, and his dad was my dad's half sister. So his parents were his mom.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Say. Say, Eric. Say it again.

[Megan Elizabeth]

His mom and my dad were full siblings. Okay. Oh, and then his dad and my dad were half siblings. So that means. Yeah, his mom and dad are half siblings with the same dad, different moms.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

So he's like your double cousin.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. So my kids would definitely have, like. Oh, my God. I thought, like, deformities for sure.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

Were there a lot of deformities there?

[Megan Elizabeth]

So from what I saw, like, I feel like the physical stuff was less than you would think. Like, I remember being a TA in the private school of the church, and I saw a girl with. Who was born with a missing ear. There were little things like that. But they did start to do blood testing to see who was compatible with who. So I think over the years of that, you. It was mostly just internal issues. There wasn't as many physical issues. You think if you're. If you're inbreeding that much, you're going to see a lot of physical issues, which I think they did when Ortel was in leadership. So Ortel was before Paul. He's our. My grandpa, Paul's dad. And he. His first wife was the first case of incest that we know of. His first wife was his niece, and he could never. They could never have babies to full term. And he ended up marrying, like, three of her sisters, and only one of them could actually have kids, but they had a lot of issues. So I think that's when the blood testing was born. Because they're like, wait, why? Why can't we have. Because. Because the orders, like, their numbers grow just because they're having so many babies so fast. Like, the fate of and you get married and you have a baby every year until you can't anymore, you know?

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Right. I love that his response to not being able to have a baby with his niece was to try multiple other nieces and think that that would solve the problem. Good thinking.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Right? So, so stupid. And I, I think that his logic was literally like my bloodline really is so great. So I'm supposed to marry a bunch of my own family because we're. We need to keep this bloodline pure.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Oh, it's so creepy.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Right?

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

So you're. So why. This is the weirdest. Why is your bloodline not pure?

[Megan Elizabeth]

My bloodline?

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Yeah, yeah.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

Like why did you need to be more Kingston?

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Well, no, that's what's weird is you'll see all of the Kingston's marrying more Kingston. Like you'll never see a woman like rarely ever would you see a woman marrying down the bloodline. And usually it was if she fought and was like going to lead the order. And then the, the they were like okay, okay, okay. Because they don't want to lose a woman because that's, that's. That's technically to them one woman is like nine babies that they could have had. Plus.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

But so your dad is like more of an indirect descendant of the leadership. Like what is it?

[Megan Elizabeth]

So yeah, he's half, half brothers to the leader. But so his dad is the leader before. So he is Kingston.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

That's pure. Okay.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Because the guy that I was like supposed to be with, he was like my age. Like okay. Probably a year older than me. So marrying up I guess just means like, like the Kingston. How do I explain this? The Kingston girls are preserved and saved for the Kingston boys the higher up Kingstons. So that they can keep that bloodline pure. Because it's going to taint and muddy up the blood. To give a Kingston girl to a non Kingston man. It's kind of like royal bloodline. Have you. You know how they.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Oh, you're just saying to marry a Kingston and not a non Kingston.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Well, but the Kingston boy that I was supposed to be wearing was more Kingston. Does that make sense?

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

Because. Because your a half brother to a Kingston and this boy was like full Kingston because.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Because both parents were Kingston.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Okay, got it. Okay.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

That took us a minute.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Why are we so confused by that?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Wow.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Okay.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

Okay. So they were like, here's a full Kingston. You're welcome. Here he is.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Double Kingston for you.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Double Kingston. Okay. Yeah. So. And everyone else is like a mud blood. Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

It's literally. It feels that way especially because you'll see where if there is a man who. So there's a lot of families where if you watch the show Escape and pulling me Shirley, she was on there and she is technically Hanson. So the Hanson girls would get married but the Hanson boys had a really hard time getting married. So Hanson was like mud blood, right? Because they did not have Kingston in their bloodline. So the girls would, they want the girls but get the boys away from their women.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

I think I remember that in that show they like sent them like kind of ostracized them to a point where a lot of them would be leaving.

[Megan Elizabeth]

It's interesting to see when you have the Hanson men's. And the Hanson men are like around the women, right? The Kingston women. And then all of a sudden like the leader will have like a direction from the Lord and say, hey Hanson man, we actually have a job for you out in Idaho in the middle of nowhere and you're going to get paid like $10 an hour. It's a great opportunity. Pushed them over there to get them away from the Kingston women. So they would actually, you'd see this happen a lot where even like the potato farm in Idaho, it's, it's ran by the Browns which are less Kingston. So they would be pushing them out to the mine and, and the farms and the, you know, in the potato farm in Idaho because they didn't want them tainting up the Kingston bloodline. But they would, they would frame it as like this is a wonderful opportunity from the Lord. And of course the men are doing this right. They want to be pleasing the Lord so that they can be awarded a wife. But in a way it's so that they can't get the wife.

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[Amanda Ray]

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[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

So can you talk to us a little bit about your childhood and what just day to day life was like for a little girl in the Kingston Clan or the Order? What did you guys call it?

[Megan Elizabeth]

I mean we called it the Order.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

We order.

[Megan Elizabeth]

We called ourselves Order members. Okay so that was like our term Kingston Clan was kind of coined from the outside world.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Outsiders. Okay. Okay.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. But yeah, so we call ourselves Order members and as I said in like first grade we were praying about who we're gonna get direction on for our number one choice. My mom was or is the second of three wives, but as a, as a young kid I didn't know who my dad was because they lied to me about it because my mom was the second wife. We were like the secret family, right? So I would see my dad with the first wife, which is my mom's older sister and I would see all of their Kids calling him dad. And so I was like, who, who's my dad then? I don't understand. And then I asked him, I remember asking him if he was my dad and he said no. And so I'm like, well then who the hell is my dad?

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

But he would come over to our house still like a dad would, but we were not allowed to call him dad. We called him by his first name.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

This isn't like the FLDS where you have all these families living together in these like enormous houses. Right. You families are living in separate homes. And was that on purpose or just because he lived in Salt Lake and it would be impossible to get a five story home in Salt Lake?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Like, like the Order has been, from what I have seen, they try really hard to be integrated into society and kind of look like they are normal, which they've done a pretty good job of doing that. Like they blend in pretty well with society. And I think it's for money gain, for opportunities for businesses. Right. And they, their location is technically, is it technically Salt Lake? It's like Redwood Road, like bordering Salt Lake, West Valley area.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Okay.

[Megan Elizabeth]

So they were very like when the raids were happening and people were actually getting prosecuted for living polygamy, I think that they just took the measures to be very, very careful. And so they had, you know, I, I mean, I think there's like one family that all lives in one home in the Order, but it's very rare that you'll see that. And I think that it's one to protect themselves. Right. Like, because my mom, she, she's on food stamps, she all. A lot of these women get state help. And so if the state's coming in, you have to get looked at. Your home has to be looked at to see if you can qualify, see what the state of the home is in. So I remember the lady coming and checking our home, which was crazy. My mom had pictures of my dad everywhere. But like she claimed that they claimed that they don't know who the father is so that they can get these benefits. But just imagine if they had homes full of kids and a bunch of wives. That would look a little suspicious.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Right, right, right.

[Megan Elizabeth]

So I think part of it is that they want to, they want to kind of come off as a single family home. But then I also think that it benefits the leader to have all of these homes because they're all going to be in the Order's name. No one leaves the home. And a lot of times no one even gets to have the home on their Name. Under their name.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Wow.

[Megan Elizabeth]

So it's beneficial for them. But, yeah, you'll see. You'll see, like, a single mom with a bunch of kids at the home, and then the dad would rotate. So, like, my dad, he had three wives, so we would see him every third night. Right. Unless it was my mom's birthday or there was some type of, you know, party going on or vacation, or the other wives were mad at him and told him to get out of their house.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

How many siblings do you have? Like full siblings?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, My mom had 10 kids, so I have five brothers and four sisters. I'm the second oldest. And then my dad had. I think he has 32 kids right now, or 33.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

How many of them do you have a relationship with?

[Megan Elizabeth]

My closest is the. Obviously, like, the ones that left. So I have my older sister who left around the same time as me. She was married in the group and then kind of got pushed out because she didn't want to look polygamy. And there was a lot. A lot of story with her, but we left the same year. And then my younger sister left on the show, Rachel. And then my younger brother also left on the show at school. And then actually, just last year, we had my younger brother Jake. He's 10 years younger than me, but he came out just last year. So those. The five of us, we've been really bonding over the trauma.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And you. You had Priscilla on here, right?

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. She probably mentioned that when you leave, they really do cut you off. And because I was one of the first to leave in my family, like, the. I wasn't allowed home for Christmas. I wasn't allowed home for Thanksgiving. It was like I was dead to the family. My 18th birthday came around the corner after I left, and I thought that my mom was gonna bring my siblings, and she showed up alone with a gift. The gift was a photo album of all of my siblings. And she told me that you basically won't ever see them again unless you come back to the order.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Oh, my God.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I was like, literally, yeah.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

What does that feel like to be 18 years old and alone like that?

[Megan Elizabeth]

It was hard, especially when your whole life, you were surrounded by the noise of your siblings. Right. It's such a eerie, weird feeling to go from always having someone around you, always having noise, always hearing a baby crying or, like, laughing to being alone in an apartment. And there's, like, silence Now. I love silence, but at the time, it was like I needed to turn, like, a TV on or something because it gave me anxiety. To be alone and in silence.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Oh, my gosh. Yeah, that seems crazy. So you went to public school, like, for a couple years.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Right before you left, I went to. It was a junior high for seventh, I think the seventh and eighth. And then we moved. And it was because at the time. So I had been going to the orders private school, which is Ensign Learning center. And. But they only had that up to grade five or five or six. And then they were working on the junior high and high school. So a lot of kids would just do homeschool at this point and. Which is what they put me in. They put me in homeschool at fifth grade. And I was basically teaching myself. Like, there was no teacher. My mom would just be like, hey, go into the basement and. And learn. And I'm like, okay, I don't know how to do that. So.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

Oh, my gosh.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Literally, like, it was K12, fifth and sixth grade, which I understand. Like, if the parents are involved, K12 is a good program. But if the parents are just throwing the kids downstairs, like, how come you're not learning?

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Right?

[Megan Elizabeth]

It's not going to be good.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

But then eventually my mom was like, okay, well, my kids need to go to school because they're not learning. So we went to junior high school. It was literally all the way on the other side of time. It took an hour to get there. And we would take the UTA bus, me and my older sister. And then we had cousins next door that would take, like, help us get there. They were cousins on the outside. But, like, it was weird. They. Their grandpa lived polygamy and they almost were members of the order. And I think the Order was still trying to get them to join, but they were. So it was like, okay to be friends with them anyways. So we went all the way to school together with them an hour every single day. And I'm so grateful for that experience because it gave me such a different perspective. Like. But up until this point, the Order was really all I knew. We are the true kingdom of God upon the earth and everybody else is sinners. Right. And then I go. And at this point, too, like, I was taught the story of, you know, why only white people will be in heaven, which I don't know that story.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

I don't remember. Did she.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

No, I don't think so.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Tell me if this sounds familiar, then.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Okay.

[Megan Elizabeth]

We were taught that there was a great war in heaven and Jesus and Lucifer were fighting, basically. And Lucifer was saying that, like, we just need to force everyone to do the right thing. And then they'll all go to heaven. And then Jesus was saying, no, we need to give freedom. And so us great white people chose Jesus's side. The demons of hell chose Satan's side, and they were never born. And then there were a bunch of fence sitters who couldn't choose the side to be on. And those were people who were not white. And there, yeah, the punishment was, you get to be born on earth, but you will never go to heaven. You're going to go straight to hell afterwards.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

The devil sounds so much nicer.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And I know welcoming everyone into his.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

Home, the devil is like, let's fix this.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

So did you, did you know any black or brown people?

[Megan Elizabeth]

So, yeah, and this is where my brain starts to shift, because one of my first friends in junior high was a black girl, and she was so nice to me. She was the only one that, like, came up and talked to me. And so I started to, like, my, my brain gears start going right? I'm like, wait a minute. So I go home and I tell my dad, I'm like, so are we sure on this? Like, all black people don't get to go to heaven. I brought the girl home. Like, I really liked her and I brought her home as, like, telling my mom, hey, I'm going to bring a friend home. Is that okay? My mom was more. You won't see this often in the order, by the way, outsiders coming to homes. But my mom was born on the outside and kind of like coerced to join, so she wanted me to be able to have friends. So I brought this girl home, and I, I think my mom didn't know that she was going to be a black girl. So she lets her come home and then she's like, oh. And then my dad happened to be there that day, and he also was like, I, I, I realized as soon as he saw her that I had done something wrong. Right?

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Oh, my God.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. So. But he was good to her face. And as soon as she left, he made sure to let me know, like, why not only did you bring an outsider to the home, but you brought. Decided to bring. I don't remember if he used the N word or not. He was very fluid with truth. He would definitely use the N word. And that was a very, they still are very. They use the N word in the.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Jesus Christ.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, like, like it's nothing. But, yeah. That made me so sad. I, I don't remember if it was like, if I prayed for her, but it was, like, internal, like, turmoil because I'm like, why does she not get to go to heaven? But some of these bullies in the order get to. I have to see them in heaven, you know?

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Right, right. Did that start planting some seeds for you about how the religion for you?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, well, I. I think at this point I was like, well, I have to be in the order because that's how I get into heaven. But I. It didn't. It was starting to make me lose kind of, like, respect for God in a weird way. Like, why does God not. Because if the answer is no, this is how it is, and this is God's, you know, plan, it made me start to question God in a way. Like, your plan's a little flawed.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Right, Right.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

Maybe you're kind of mean.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

So many people in groups like this do not get the opportunity to go to public school and be face to face with outsiders and people who don't look like them. So I think it's, like, incredible that you got to have that experience and, like, see directly the difference between the narrative and the reality of how people are. Right.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I definitely credit a lot of my free thinking because for a while I was like, why me? And a lot of people did be like, you were just, like, special enough to know. I'm like, no, we were all born into it and I was given different opportunities that made me see. And just because this other person stayed doesn't mean that they weren't smart. It's just that they weren't given those opportunities to critical think.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Yeah. Yeah. If you're completely isolated from the outside world and like, you know, nothing else, like, if you don't have the information, then it's gonna be a lot harder to make some of those free thinking choices.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Exactly. I. And I even had, like, yeah, I. I've gotten offended a couple times when there was. There's been some comments on my TikToks recently. They're like, oh, I could never survive in the order. I asked too many questions. And like, shut up. Yeah, you wouldn't. If you were born in there because you stopped down, you would be literally abused. So. So you don't know what you're saying.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Right now when your entire life is being controlled. Like, yeah, people just don't. They just don't understand if they've never.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

There's a lot of similarities between what you're saying and how I grew up and this little religion called the two by twos and where it's kind of like, we're not really getting more members, we're just like, breeding them into existence, because who the fuck would join this? But yeah, I guess I'm just wondering, was there a dress code? Did you fit in at public school, or did you look kind of like my experience where I looked like American girl doll going to a 90s school?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. Very, very normal. Right. Blending in. And that's what they wanted. That's what we. We did have the strictness of, like, you know, modesty, obviously. And then they were big on not piercing your ears in my generation. Yeah. But I did it myself. I took pins and I went into the bathroom and I put the pins in my ears, and I came out like, these are my ears. Okay.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

I also was not allowed to pierce my ears, but I was a rebellious 13 year old. And by rebellious, I mean I listened to. Listened to punk music. But what? I. I never did any drugs or alcohol, but I did have my friend pierce my belly button with a safety pin.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Oh, my God.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

And. And then someone at church saw it and told my dad. And I only had a belly button piercing for one week, and I still have a scar. Cause it was. It was also really poorly placed in a really terrible piercing.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Wasn't that so painful? Cause it's. That's like more skin too, than.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Yeah, it didn't feel good. And they, like, messed it up the first time, so they had to do it again. But I was so intent on being, you know, this was like my one way to rebel anyway. That bitch who told my dad, yeah, you. Anyway, that's my aside. Keep going.

[Megan Elizabeth]

No, that's very similar. Of like, I wanted to feel like I had some form of control of my life, so I was like, I'm just gonna do it anyways and force those pins through my ears, which was like, like, so painful.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

But didn't you, like, get in trouble? I mean, if I would have pierced my ears, my parents would have, like, sent me away.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Right. And I think at this point, like, I was 17. By. By this point, I think, yeah, 17. And by this time, my dad had been getting me ready to basically be groomed to be married. So my mom saw my. My safety pins in my ears, and she was like. I remember she was like, you're gonna have to talk to your dad about that. And I was nervous, but I. I went to. I can't remember whose wedding it was, but it was this reception, and it was in the huge. Like, it was like, the cement building looked like a warehouse. And I was dancing with my dad, and I was really nervous because I had to ask him if I could keep My ears, basically. And I had my earrings in. And I was like, can I keep my ears pierced? And I was shocked that he said yes. And I think it's a mixture of his mom had pierced ears and he was, like, very fond of his mother. But also he was getting ready to basically push me to marry my cousin. So he was trying to be nicer at this time.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Buttering you up. Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Right. And so I was like, oh, okay. So I got to keep my ears pierced. But I still got, like, shamed for it and reprimanded because I worked at the school and if I wore earrings even to a dance, if the principal of the school, which was the leader's brother, if he saw me wearing earrings or if he saw me wearing clothing that he disapproved of, he would take me into his office and be like, look, you're an example to these children. Do you really think that you should be wearing earrings? Do you really think you should be wearing this jewelry or this, this, this immodest clothing? Jeans was one of them. He's like, jeans is immodest. Jeans.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

I couldn't wear jeans.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Couldn't this. The idea of them being immodest is funny because why?

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

No, the jeans were like the devil's clothing.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. What's the reasoning?

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

You just weren't allowed to. Women weren't allowed to wear pants in general. And then jeans were so flattering and cool. And I remember my first pair, we went. I went to Gadzooks.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Oh, I loved Gadzooks. It was so cool.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

I got a pair of like, Jinka bootleg flared. Oh, my God, the dream, like, almost skater pants with like a, like a girl doing karate on the butt. And I was like, this is the dopest thing that's ever happened to me. And I would roll them up in my backpack and change to them every day at school.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Because you had to leave your house in. In the clothing and go change later.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

Yes.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

So, yeah, I relate to what you're saying. And that's really wild that your dad would be like, yeah, keep your ear piercing because you're gonna marry your cousin. Like, what a, what a crazy situation to be put in.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Yeah. Oh, my God.

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[Amanda Ray]

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[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Wait, I want to hear a little bit about the practice of children working because I know you've talked about this.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Oh for sure. I think every order member has a memory of working at a very young age. And I remember the Ensign Learning center school bus that would pick us up from the order. Private school would drop the kids off a lot of us to different business locations so that we could go to work. So you get picked up from school, dropped off at work.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Wait, from what age?

[Megan Elizabeth]

I can't tell you my earliest, earliest memory, but I know that it was at least in one of my memories. Probably second grade. Second or third grade.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Second grade?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, we're.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

We're like any of the most Kingstony people spared. Like if you were full, Kingston, full, full, full, full, full. Were you not not required to work as much.

[Megan Elizabeth]

To be honest, I feel like the more Kingston ones still, they still had to work, but they would be given first access to the better positions. And then I do remember because I became good friends with one of so. So the leader and his brothers. They. Those kids. When I became good friends with some of those daughters, I would find out that they had way more money in their bank accounts too. Like, one of my friends, she was like, yeah, I was saving up 30 grand. I was like, wait, wait, wait. My account never went past 2000 ever. And I had been work. There was times where I didn't even have access to the money. So why would my account never go over 2,000, but you're over here having 30 grand. And so I started putting two and two together because I was like, I'm noticing a pattern that it's always the leader's kids or the leaders brothers and or sisters kids.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Okay. So they ran the bank and they, they didn't really tell you there wasn't like a set rate for how much money you were making. They would just kind of like pay whatever.

[Megan Elizabeth]

They were always just so sketchy about the pay. Like, you would just start working and then you would hope that you're getting paid. But then there were times where someone would go like three months without getting paid. And then they'd be like, hey, what? I. I'm noticing that there's literally not even been one one, because you'd get your statement on Sundays at church. They'd pass them out and then it would show, like the money that supposedly went into your account and then what your surplus is and whatever you had to like minus subtract it was. They made it so confusing so that you would never know exactly how much money you had. But I remember this girl, she was like telling them, hey, I. I haven't gotten any surplus on my statements for three months. And they told her, oh, yeah, well, when you work in this portion of the school, then you actually don't get paid. Did you not know that? And then they basically were like, well, take. Take it as like you were working for the Lord. And then if you, if you complain for working for free for the Lord, now you're a bad guy, you know?

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Wow. And parents didn't mind their children, like, being forced to do child labor. I mean, I know it was a part of the culture, but like, was there any pushback?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, you would think there would be, like Riots. Right. But I think that it just was such a normal thing and that it became, to be honest, I think for my mom personally, my mom had 10 kids, so I think for her she was like, yeah, go to work. Like totally.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Get out of the house. Yeah.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

She's like, you're a doctor, you're a scientist, everybody full time jobs.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Totally. Damn.

[Megan Elizabeth]

But yeah, there was not really. I didn't see any pushback and I mostly saw up pushing for it. And so that was just the culture that we lived in.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Were other kids as getting as much of an education as you were? Because it sounded like your mom actually cared if you guys were learning because when you weren't, she sent you to public school.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Like what was the education like for everybody else?

[Megan Elizabeth]

I think that, yeah, I was lucky enough to have a mom that cared more than the average mom. And she even allowed, she like pushed for my sisters to go to college. And even when my dad didn't want them to go to college, my mom allowed my sister to go kind of behind his back. And so she was trying the best she knew to set us up to not fail. But so on average though, it's a lot harder for the girls to get access to school because they are, I mean, I saw my own friends like having to drop out of high school to go get married and start their family. So they would do this thing called Penn Foster. It was a very popular way that the order members would get their high school degrees. I mean I got mine at 15, graduated Penn Foster and really it was just everyone cheating through it. Or like the teacher would, they would put us all in a room and we would try to learn together and then we would try to ask the teacher if we didn't know, but the teacher also didn't know. So it was like kind of like pushing us to have to cheat or to fig, you know, either to learn or cheat. But a lot of them opted to cheating just to get their degree, their high school diploma. But yeah, so on average I feel like they're, the women were less educated. You did see randomly there were some, if they were in like the higher ups families, if they had a position that they were wanting them to go for, like a teacher or something, then they would allow them to go out. You would see a lot more men going to college, definitely because they could trust the men. But I was, I, I fought to go to college and they were like, absolutely not. And I think it's because like my dad would say things like, you know, ask your husband if it's okay for you to go to college, ask your husband if it's okay for you to. You know, when you're older and you have a husband, you can ask him if you can wear that. Like, it started to become like, once I'm done taking care of you, then I'm gonna pass you off to your husband and then he can be your parent. So it was super weird. But the reason they didn't have me go to college is because I was already breaking order standards. I was already, like, running around with boyfriends and, like, going. Going out with men that were not Kingston. So they were, like, worried that I was definitely gonna go, like, date an outsider. They were like, let's keep her locked up in this cage as possible so that she can't, you know, escape, basically.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

To what extent did you believe in the religion itself? Like, it sounds like you kind of had a. A rebellious streak and wanted to do your own, like be a little bit independent. But did you still really believe in the religion?

[Megan Elizabeth]

I think every single member that's born there is like a die hard for the order. And. But at some point, for me, I think it was 15. Yeah, I was 15 years old, I ran away. So I had been running away a lot, but I. I really liked this boy who was not Kingston. And my dad flat out told me he was like, like, I don't know who you're supposed to marry, but I know it's not him. And so I was like, what? What? So I ran away with him and I was so, like, conflicted because I was like, I don't want to live polygamy. And I also, I cannot imagine having daughters and teaching these daughters too, that they're also going to have the same fate that I'm so, like, depressed about, right? So I remember praying, I prayed so hard to get the answers. And I remember crying in. In this one time that I ran away. I was like, crying I little quad Bible, and I was reading and crying, and I just came to the. I had a. A weird experience that to this day I'm like, was it. Was it like schizophrenia? I don't know. But it basically was like a comforting experience with my Bible where I was like, okay, I'm going to leave. I'm going to get out of the order. I don't know how, but I'm going to do it. And it. It was just the mixture of. I didn't want to ligame. I didn't want to have to force my daughters into a lifestyle that I don't even appreciate. And then around this time, too, I had a friend who asked me if I heard about the whole. This is what he said. He said, did you know that Daniel beat Marianne? I don't know if you have heard these names or anything, but it became public. What he was talking about was it was public news that. So my cousin Marianne, who's Daniel's daughter, and if you watch the show Escape, and believe me, Daniel is the dad of Jessica, Andrea Chanel, Colleen. Like, he has 200. Over 260 children. Sorry, 160. Yeah, 160 children. But one.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

That makes it better. Just kidding.

[Megan Elizabeth]

That's a little better. 14 wives and, like, 160 something. Wow. But one of those kids was named Marianne, and she was a teenager. Like, I think it was 15 at the time. And you can look all of this information up. They forced her to marry her uncle, David O. Kingston. And she's, like, 15. She was actively against it. She, like, begged her mom to get her out of the situation. And because she was defiant. Then Daniel took her to one of the Order ranches. It was the Washakie Ranch. And he, like, beat her up to the point where, like, she had broken bones, she had bruises all over her body, and she had to run to the nearest gas station when he left and call the police. Like, he just left her there like that.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Oh, my God.

[Megan Elizabeth]

So. But I, being in the Order, never heard this story. Like, I went my whole life thinking that David O. Kingston went to prison for. I had no idea why he actually went. The order kind of made it seem like they're just trying to prosecute us because we're polygamous. They're trying to. Because of our religious beliefs, they're trying to hurt us.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

It's always persecution and never a crime.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. Never accountability on the men, of course.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Death. Come to find out later, it's because he was literally raping his underage niece. And the sad part of this story is he was supposed to get 10 years, but he got out in, like, four because of, like, he promised that he wasn't gonna be living incest. Meanwhile, he has, like, how many wives of his or his own half sisters. Crazy.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Wow.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. So I'm hearing this. This. This guy be like, did you know that Daniel beat Marianne? And my brain is like, no, because why would a numbered man do that?

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Like, wait, who said this to you?

[Megan Elizabeth]

This was my friend. He was in the Order, but he was in. This is some tea. But it's also, like, you have to, like, know the lore. Yeah. Merlin's family. So Merlin was supposed to be the next leader. There's this huge rivalry that when Ortel died, my grandpa, his brother Merlin was supposed to be the leader, but instead, his son Paul swooped in and got the leadership because his favorite wife. Wife was like, no, my son's gonna be the leader.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Wow. Juicy. Okay.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. Merlin's son, like, Merlin's family became, like, ostracized. And even though they're all Kingston, it became like this divide where Merlin's family was kind of teaching their family different things because he was supposed to be the leader. And then Paul's family kind of had hit their own thing. So then it was like, again, a cult within a cult where don't talk to Merlin's family because they. They don't know the true teachings, even though they're in the order to.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Right.

[Megan Elizabeth]

So Merlin's family would kind of be the ones that would whisper me, like, did you know that? Did you know that Ladonna used to do this and Paul used to do this?

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Right, Right.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Merlin's kid was like, did you know that Daniel beat Marianne? And I was like, no. So then he told me. He's like, go ask your dad. Say, dad, did Daniel beat Marianne? So I. I was like, fine, I will. I go ask my dad, dad, did Daniel beat Marianne? And he goes, let's not talk about that. And instantly I knew. I was like, oh, my gosh. So this is. What else are you hiding for these. Yeah. What else are you okay with them doing? And I started to just. I think at that point, I was just losing all respect for my dad, because it's like, one. You lied to me when I was a little kid about you being my dad, and now you're sitting here like, you won't even enlighten me on the terrible things that these men are doing. You're. You're blindly following these men. Not only that, you're wanting me to marry one of their kids. You know, like, what's my fate if I trust you with my future?

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Yeah. Yeah. Was that like, a major, like, eye opening? Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Oh, yeah. That was like, I'm gonna fight kicking and screaming to get out of here. Because apparently. And the fact that, like. No. When I went to research more about the story, it was turned into, like, if you went to the Kingston side, like, David's family, the guy that went to prison, if you went to that family or to Daniel's family, they were slut. Shaming the girl. It was all the girl's fault. David did nothing wrong. This girl who was 15, right. Is the terrible person. And this is very common in the order you'll. I even heard recently one of the members talking to their relatives. Like, I, I was kind of like a fly on the wall in the conversation. And she was saying similar things like slut shaming a 15 year old for being with a grown man. Wow. Why are you guys. It's because the men are running the. The society and the men want zero accountability. So they want it all to be. Which I, I find that so interesting though, because like I was literally talking about this the other day. How is it that we, we in these cults can be like, the men are like, it's all the woman's fault. The woman made me do it. It's like they, they're. They're forcing me. They have all this power over me. Okay, then why doesn't the woman be the leader of the church? Because she has. She's.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

She's so powerful. Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. It's like the blind leading the blind over here.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Well, evil sinners can't lead churches. Amanda.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

Eve could never.

[Megan Elizabeth]

The story of Eve. I know that one's also a very triggering one.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

It really is. I mean, this sounds like. And I could be way off, but this just sounds like some. Someplace so rife and perfect for abuse that I'm surprised. Like, I'm surprised Marianne didn't die, to be honest. It sounds like she was beaten and left for dead. Almost like, Like.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. And there's been cases where I, I really believe there's been multiple cases that we don't even know that have been cover ups because also there. And I don't know how it is right now, but when I was in the order, my dad told me like a funny story of how his mom didn't get him his birth certificate until he was like 8 years old. So it was very common practice where they would not have birth certificates for a while. So there's these kids just running around with, with. There's no, there's no proof that they exist. And I, My theory is that there was so much abuse in the group because, you know, you. They would literally teach that if the kid is six months old, then they should obey. They should be obedient, and if you have to use force, then do it because the kids should be obeying. So I think that the reason why they waited on the birth certificates is because, yes, there was a lot of diseases that these kids got and they didn't make it because they don't believe in the hospital. But then there was also a lot of abuse. So they're like, well, maybe we just wait till they're, like, five to get their birth certificate. That's my belief on it.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

That makes perfect sense. I mean, your theory. Not that they would do it.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. Because also, too, my mom had all ten kids at home. I remember helping bury the placentas in the backyard after she's done giving birth.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

That must have been what you thought your future was really gonna be. I mean, how terrifying to watch a woman give birth at home and that much pain and be like, this is what I'm gonna do for.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

And, like, 10 times, and that's it. And that's my whole life's purpose.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yep. And with the grooming, though, so many women, including me, are like, you know what? 10 kids sounds good. Like, I'm so excited.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Really? You were. You felt that excitement?

[Megan Elizabeth]

I wasn't excited to get married to my relatives, but I was excited to be a mom because we. We were moms at such a young age already. And that was honestly the one thing. And I bet you everyone you interview from polygamous cults will say the same thing, that the best thing that they had in these cults was their siblings. The being raised with all of these siblings, being raised with their. Like. I was kind of, like, got the taste of being a mother with my little. You know, literally, after my mom had her last kid, they handed her off to me to go clean her off while my dad was helping my mom. Mom. And so I'm like, the first person, one of the first people that gets to hold this little baby and clean her. And it is. It's a really cool experience. And so you. You want that, especially when that really is the highest place that you get in the order. Sadly, as a woman, not. Not to say that, like, having a baby is, like, sad. What a low thing. But to. To know that that's your only right, Greatest accomplishment is that you're going to be birthing kind of like being livestock for the order.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Right. So can you tell us about your marriage and. And how it ended up happening and how you felt?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, well, I actually didn't get married in the order, though.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Oh, you got married after. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Right. I ran away.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Right. So how did you not get married? Tell us that story then.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, so they. They were basically. It was going towards that direction, and I had. Like I was saying, I had voiced my concern, and I ended up. So I had ran away multiple times I've told this story on my YouTube, but I have, like, a whole. It's like such a long story, but basically, the last day I was there, I was trying to help my friend get his money out of the. The order bank because he was trying to leave. And I had been working at the order bank. So it ended in this huge, like, there was a physical altercation. Like, the. The. The leader's brother, like, attacked me. I was bleeding at. The police got called.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Wait, he attacked you because you were trying to get money out for your friend?

[Megan Elizabeth]

I. I was like. I kind of wanted to spare you the story, but if you want to hear it, I'll tell you.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

I want to hear it. If you. If. Yeah, if you don't mind. I mean, I don't. Unless you want to not spoil it, because it's on your YouTube. Totally up to you.

[Megan Elizabeth]

No, no, I'm. I. I can tell you because there's a lot of little pieces of it, but basically, he wasn't getting his money out. They weren't letting him get his money out. He had like, 30, $40,000 in there. There. He calls me, I come over. We kind of. Kind of. We try to devise a plan. And he was like, well, you work there, and they'll buzz you back, no problem. And they're always so afraid of getting in trouble for child labor, which is crazy. They're so afraid of getting in trouble for that, yet they do it all everywhere, right? And we all knew that they were afraid because especially at the. The office, the order bank, there was all these kids that worked in the back. You had to push a button to buzz in the back. So no outsiders could go back. Someone needed to come fix, like, a copy machine or something. Then they would have all the kids, like, disperse, go hide. And then the outsider would come in, fix it. It would be, like, empty, and then leave, and all the kids would come back to go work.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Megan Elizabeth]

So we knew how paranoid they were of getting caught for the breaking child labor laws. So he was like, if you go back there, take pictures of the underage kids working, and we use that as leverage to get my money.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Wow. Smart, smart.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I was like, okay, that's a good idea. So he gives me his phone, I go back there, and I start taking pictures. I guess I was obvious, but I thought I was discreet, but I was. But in this moment, too, I could have gotten away. But in this moment, I realized that this is probably going to be the last time that I ever see these people. And my. One of my best friends worked in the office Right over to my. To the, like, left side of the building. So I was like, I'm just gonna go talk to her one last time. And I ran over to her, and it was like, one of those situations where it's like, I knew it was our last conversation, but she didn't. It was just a normal conversation to her, but. And it was our very last conversation. Like, I never saw her again.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Megan Elizabeth]

But I'm talking to her, and I just remember seeing her because my back was to the door. She was sitting in her office chair. And I remember as we were talking, I just remember seeing her face, like, looking behind me, like, scared. And it was. Was Paul's brother coming from behind me to get the phone that had the evidence. And I. I. It was such a blur. Like, I just remember all of a sudden, like, the phone flew out of my hand, and he was like. His arms were all over me, and then he was, like, pushing me with his hip out the door. And it was in front of, like. I feel like at least 10 people saw this. And I just remember seeing all their faces in shock as he's, like, shoving me out the door. He had the phone in his hand. And I just start. I. Like, he locked me out of the door. So I'm, like, in shock, adrenaline. And so I run across the street to my friend. My friend starts crying. He's like, you're bleeding. You're bleeding. And I felt nothing because I had so much adrenaline. And so I. But I remember, like, touching my neck, and there was blood. I was like. I don't even know how that happened because it happened so fast, but there were handprints all over me. Like, we eventually called the police, and the police, like, took pictures. It was very obvious that he put his hands on me, which. Which later he told the police, like, no, no, no. And he. He would not talk to the police till his lawyer showed up. His lawyer is also a numbered man for the order. But the. The craziest part of this story, and. And this is why at the time, I was like, God must have been watching us today, because I was super. Like, I definitely believe that Heavenly Father was watching over me. And I. And I was one of the rare cases where I. I still believed in God and that God didn't think I was going to hell after leaving. Like, a lot of the times, yeah, everyone's usually like, I'm hell anyways, whatever. But I believe, like, if there's a God, he's not the God they believe in, because that sounds like hell. And I don't want to go to a heaven where all of you guys are.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

I've literally never heard of someone like still believing. Like believing that when they leave their religious group. That's crazy. That's. That's great. That's way better.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And maybe it was a version of me kind of like gaslighting myself. Like, nope, there's a. There's a heaven and it, it's exactly how I want it to be.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

It's called manifesting and we love it.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Ye higher power. Right? Yeah. So I, I believe that Heavenly Father was watching over me because this as we're calling the police, there happened to be this cop that was going back to the station. He heard our call. He was like right in front of us, pulled over and he happened to be this same cop because. Because I don't know if Priscilla talked about any of this topic of A lot of the Order has policemen in their pockets. Like they, they pay off a lot of people. So. But I happened to be calling one that they weren't and he happened to be the cop that was on the case of. So there's a little story of there was a baby in the Order who was being babysat. And this is what the. What ended up happening. And I'll. And I'll tell you what the truth is afterwards. So what ended up happening was the baby. They claimed, the babysitter claimed that the baby fell, but by the autopsy, the baby was beaten to the death.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

Oh my God.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And the wrong person in my, in my. Not in my opinion. I talked to family members that were on this. So I truly believe this is what happened. I think this is fact. The wrong person went to prison to protect the abuser who was the leader's brother.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

Oh my God.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Right. And. And they do scare tactics like that to get the women to do that or like it's an honor to serve the, the Lord in this way, whatever that.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

To go to jail. Oh my God. God.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. And it was a mother that went. My mother who had kids went to go protect his dude.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Jesus. So this was the same cop you said?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, the same. The same cop that I had happened to be driving down was the same cop that went to the house and listened to the Kingston's lying about how the baby just fell. And so he, and he told me this. He pulled over and I'm like, I, I'm from the Kingston Group. I like was probably sobbing, stuttering like he probably was like, what's going on? But he did say he's like, listen I know you're not lying. I was on the case where they claimed that that baby had fallen, but I know that they killed that baby. Like, he was on my side, like, ride or die. He was so cool. He tried to go in there to go speak to them, and they were holding the door shut and he was telling us, he's like, they're, they're shuffling around, there's paper flying everywhere. They're, they're freaking out. They're not letting me in there.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Oh, wow.

[Megan Elizabeth]

They're acting so suspicious. Like, he was on my side, he was taking pictures for me. And he, I remember him saying, take this as your silver lining and get out. Never look back. And like, to this day I'm like, I'm so glad that I had that experience because it helped me through validate, just validating a lot of things that happened and then realizing, I don't know, this whole story was so crazy because even after talking to him and him like kind of giving me that pep talk, 30 minutes later, another cop shows up, pulls over, has me separate from the group and sit in his car with him, and he starts to say, like, look, do you really want to press charges on Jason? Like, it's so much work for you to have to go to court multiple times and he's gonna get a slap on the wrist. And I'm over here, like just a 17 year old, scared little kid, cult kid has no ideas what the laws are. And so I'm like, okay, yeah. And, But I do remember feeling weird about it. So I asked for his card. Later on, I showed the card to another girl that had been out of the order for a long time. She's like, yeah, he, he works for the order.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Wow.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

My God, this is like the most dramatic TV show I know.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

I'm like, transfixed. Yeah. Yeah.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

So you left that day.

[Megan Elizabeth]

That was, that was July 25th of 2013. That was the last day. Like, in hindsight, it was all, it really was a silver lining. Like seeing all of that unfolding and it happening so fast, which after, by the way, after I've been attacked, after he, after the guy, the uncle that attacked me, Paul's brother starts to talk to the police. We can see him lying to the police. Like, we can see him showing how he escorted me out within like an hour, the whole order. Same thing was happening to me as Marianne, right? I'm getting slut shamed. I, I, the, Guess what? Amanda actually never got touched by him. She clawed herself in the throat. And there's, there's video evidence that she did that. And, like, I'm like. Because these are the people that were sharing this information knew me. I was like, so you think that it's. But in my brain. So at the time, it was really, really hard for me to hear. I was like, whoa. Yeah. But in hindsight, what was really happening was at least I think it is easier to believe that I was just this crazy cult member. Right. Or this crazy person that just wanted to bring down the order and hurt the order Order, than to believe that the leadership is flawed. Yeah, right. To believe that the leadership actually did attack Amanda and did do these things. But the part that I'm actually really glad for is there were, like I said, like, 10 witnesses that did see him lay his hands on me. So there has got to be, or at least was at the time, a debate going on. They saw it with their own eyes, and then there's a bunch of people who don't want to believe it.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

I would love to be a fly on the wal in those debates between people who saw it and people who didn't believe it. And I. And I'm like, I wonder if people who saw it even could gaslight themselves.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Into to be like, maybe it wasn't.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Because also, too, like, this is the part that I kept saying over and over, at least to anyone who would hear, because I started to get cut off from people really, really fast. Even, like, the girl that saw me get attacked that I never saw again, she was texting me. She's like, I cannot believe he did that. Are you okay? And then all of a sudden, like, her texts were, like, different, because you could tell that someone talk, coached her and said, hey, we don't want Amanda to be able to use any evidence against us. Blah, blah. Do you want to be hurting the Order? You don't want to be hurting.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Right?

[Megan Elizabeth]

She's starting to feel scared. And so. But my defense was always when people would say they have footage. They have footage that he never touched you. I would say, then why didn't he show that footage to the police? Because he did end up having to do anger management, and he had it on his record record. So if there was evidence he never attacked a minor, then he would not have had to do that. Right, Right.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

And I love when people say there's evidence, but then they can never produce it. Like, it's just show me the footage somewhere. It's like, okay, yeah, we. Let's let the truth come out, then show me the evidence.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Right.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

But no exactly where did you go that day?

[Megan Elizabeth]

At that time, I was kind of like dating this guy. It was the guy that I ended up marrying. And he. He. So I don't like to say too much about his side because we're divorced now. And. And whenever I talk about him, he's like, keep my name out of your mouth. But he was there, and he was on the reports. So he was there with my friend. Like, they were waiting for me to come out. And he. He was like, you guys can come stay at my house. So we kind of like all huddled together, like, as an emotional support group. Group. But he. The. The part that shocked me about him, it was eye opening with him. And it honestly, I think is a big reason why we ended up. I ended up leaving him seven years later after the. After getting married, in this moment when I was attacked, when I had blood coming out of my neck and we were calling the police, his response was to call the leader and be like, come, come get your brother. Like, he believed that the leader would be on his side. Like, he was like, without a doubt. There's no way the leader would be, because he still kind of believed. And it pissed me off because I was like, dude, like, there's no way he's gonna take my side over his brother. Right? He's like, you're wrong, you're wrong, you're wrong. He kept trying to call, call, call. And I was right.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I was like, obviously, like. And here, here it is like the leadership was all shaming me. And honestly, I feel like that needed to happen for him to realize that, like, oh, my gosh, they don't care about us. I'm like, yeah, duh, right?

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

What, what did it feel like having your community turn on you like that? Because I just. It just seems like it would be so, so painful.

[Megan Elizabeth]

It definitely was, because it's like, it's not only that I just left and never saw these people again. They were like, kicking you while you're down on the way out, you know?

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And it was almost like they wanted to see you suffer. I just remember one of the memories that really sticks out was one of my really good friends that I was, like, really close with. We would sneak out together, we would break order standards together. She had a secret phone and she messaged me and she was like, it's just a really good thing that you're leaving and you're not bringing anyone else to heck with you.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

Oh, did she say.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

She said to heck?

[Megan Elizabeth]

I'm pretty sure it was heck. It's in text. They're afraid to say H E double oh my God. But yeah, her. She thought I was on a. Heck, yeah.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

And all of your siblings that you've helped raise, it's just like.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Yeah, it's.

[Megan Elizabeth]

It's.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

It's like apocalyptic. Emotionally, it's just unbelievable.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Right. I think. I think everyone that leaves goes through that of. Of. It's like mourning people that are still alive. Right. But as you heal and you do therapy and you grow and you start to learn what healthy love is, you kind of realize that none of them ever unconditionally loved you anyways.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

From the beginning.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

It was all a love based on conditions and what can you do for me? You know?

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

And the order.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Right. That's your only purpose.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

What's that? First, like, month, year out.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Like, I feel like for me was probably different than other people because it. My year happened so fast, and escaping polygamy actually contacted me within, like, six months of my escape. Escape. And I think that, to me, it was a good thing because it was also kind of a. I don't know, it was bittersweet because it was like a distraction. But it was also, like, forcing me to work through my trauma because I kept going back to the order topics. But I. I realized there was something wrong with me. I. I definitely had a lot of shame and guilt and hate that was kind of in me. Even in the Order, because you're surrounded by that and you're taught, talked. The way that you're talked at to by your parents becomes your internal dialogue. Right. So I had a lot of hate, guilt, shame, and stuff that came from the order. And then on top of that, you're like, mourning the loss of your family. It was. I was lucky enough that I did have siblings that still snuck out to come see me, and I'm so grateful for that. They ended up leaving later. Right. But I was in and out of therapy for a lot of years, and it took a lot of. Do you hear this? This thing of, like, healing's never linear. Right. But it's true. And I think that there were times where it was, like, really, really good. And then it was like, I don't want to. I don't want to heal anymore. I. It's too hard. And so I'd have to take a break, and then my mental health would go down, and then I would want to go back up. You know, it's kind of just like putting in the work is really hard, especially when you were not given the tools in your Childhood. So now as an adult, it almost felt like it was like a culture shock. It's. It almost felt like going from one planet to another planet where they're all speaking a different language. Right. Because my whole world was this cult and what worked in the cults doesn't work out here. So it's like trying to figure that out.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

It's important to mention, I think that on our healing journeys, taking breaks is just probably inevitably going to be a part of it. Like we have, you know, it's very. We want to think we can just kind of like power through it and be like, I'm healed. And like it's like a straight. Yeah, like a straight line up. But like that's not how it works and that's okay and that's normal and that's part of it. Right?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

Even being reminded of that right now, I was like, oh, a thousand pounds has, has just been lifted off my shoulders.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

You're right.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

How did you even know what therapy was? Or like how to find a therapist?

[Megan Elizabeth]

That's a really good. This is a good point to end on. And maybe even if you can have some of this in a description box for any members who, anyone from any cults that are trying to leave Holding Out Help actually helped me to have access to free therapy when I left. And I'm so grateful for that because I wouldn't have gotten it. I wouldn't have been spending money on that.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

And how did you know about them? Like how did you come into contact with them?

[Megan Elizabeth]

There was multiple ex order members who asked me if I had heard of them. And I think even while I was in the order, someone slipped me the information. So I knew that there was resources and at the time I never lived with them. But I know that holding out help now offers like housing for people that are leaving therapy. They offer for me. What I took advantage of was they helped me get a job because I didn't know how to, to have a resume. I was just given all my jobs in the order. Right. So they helped me write a resume, they helped me get my first job, they helped me get a gas card so that I could afford gas to get to the job they offer like phones, phone covering phone bills, stuff like that. So. So I think it's such a good resource. And doesn't your mom also has resources as well? Right?

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Yeah. Voices for Dignity in, in Southern Utah, in the, in the Short Creek area. Does she does really similar work there as well. Yeah. It's like we need organizations like that Because, I mean, like, my mom, actually my mom and me, when we left our, you know, were homeless briefly, like after she got out of her situation and realized that the man was a fraud. We had no money and we had nowhere to go. And there were no. There was no understanding of that at the time and there were no resources. And it made her healing journey just take so much longer because you're in survival mode at the same time, you.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Can'T heal when you're. Your basic needs are not being met.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Right, right, right, exactly. And yeah, I, like, I hope more of these organizations crop up all across the country, but I'm so glad that some of them are doing that work already. Amanda, we have to wrap up with you. I don't want to.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I want to keep talking another one.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

I know. Seriously, what would you say to somebody who is just beginning to wonder if the group that they're in could be a cult? Do you have any. Any advice or thoughts or tips?

[Megan Elizabeth]

I recently, on one of my live streams, actually had an order member commenting and he was like, my family doesn't abuse me. My. My family's actually pretty good in the order. And I told him, I was like, well, they may not physically abuse you, but they may be emotionally abusing you and you may be unaware. And he was like, nope, they're not emotionally abusing me. And I was like, do they believe in the law of one above another? And he was like, yes. And I was like, the law of one above another is emotional abuse. Because what is the definition of emotional abuse? It basically is what the abuser is doing is trying to make the victim trust them, trust the abuser more than themselves, lose trust in themselves, not. Not have a sense of self. That's what emotional abuse does. And what the law of one above another is is basically literally that, like, we are going to tell you what God says because we can't trust you with your relationship with God. So you're going to have to talk to God through us because. Right. So my point in this is if someone is questioning if you are a member of a cult or in your brain, you're going to think you're not in a cult. Right. I never did when I was in it. If you're questioning, there's a reason you're questioning. And you need to trust yourself enough to let yourself dive into those questions to get the answers that you deserve. And anyone who's trying to make you distrust yourself, yourself is probably emotionally abusing you. So questions are good things. They're. We critically Think and how we can find the best environment, the safest environment for ourselves. So anytime you are questioning, trust yourself that you're going to make the decisions for yourself, that's such a hard. It's like easier said than done. Especially when you're in a cult and you're. You don't have a very good sense of self because they don't create that environment for you. But questions are a good thing and you should basically hone in on that as much as you can.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Yes, yes. I leave that.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

Questions.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Yes. Amanda, where can people find you online?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yes, my. I have a YouTube channel if you look up Amanda Ray R A E. And then I also have Instagram. Amanda Ray Grant. I have a TikTok as well. I do kind of have a podcast, but it's like under construction right now. The Culty Crew podcast.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Cool.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Hopefully we will be back, but I hope so.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Thank you so much for talking to us. This has been awesome.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yes, thank you so much for having me. It was nice to meet both of. Well, I know Lola, but it was nice to meet you as well.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

Thank you, Amanda. Wow. I cannot wait to talk to Amanda again. She is fascinating.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Yes. Thanks to Amanda for coming on. And we have some news that's. It's vague still, but we are making some changes over here. We are actually moving homes. So prepare for there to maybe be some weeks off and maybe some. Some things seem a little different for a little while, but trust me, we will be back.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

And by homes you mean networks, not like our actual homes.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

No, I wanted everybody to know that we are moving apartments and they will be affected by that.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

Yeah. So it might be a week off here or there, but we'll be back. And special thanks to Podcast one and especially Steve and Gabby who we've loved so much.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

So indeed, we've had a wonderful team, but the future, the future awaits us and we can't wait to bring you all with us.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

Indeed. Indeed. Indeed. Did you just say indeed and then I'm saying indeed.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

I don't know. That's our thing now. Okay.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

Well, as always, remember to follow your gut. Watch out for red flags and never ever trust me.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Bye. Trust Me is produced by Kirsten Woodward, Gabby Rapp and Steve Delamater with special.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

Thanks to Stacy Pera.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

And our theme song was composed by Holly Amber Church.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

You can find us on Instagram @TrustMe podcast, Twitter RustMeCultPod or on TikTok RustMeCult podcast.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

I'm ooh la Lola on Instagram and Olalola on Twitter and I am Megan.

[Trust Me Podcast Host]

Elizabeth 11 on Instagram and Baber Abraham Hicks on Twitter.

[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

Remember to rate and review and spread the word.

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[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

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[Megan Elizabeth]

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[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

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[Megan Elizabeth]

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[Trust Me Podcast Co-Host]

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[Megan Elizabeth]

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