Celeste Gross - Growing Up in the Children of God

Summary

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Trust Me: Cults, Extreme Belief, and Manipulation

Episode: Celeste Gross – Growing Up in the Children of God
Aired: April 1, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode features Celeste Gross, a survivor of the infamous Children of God cult (now known as The Family). Joining hosts Lola Blanc and Megan Elizabeth, Celeste recounts her formative years spent in the cult's highly controlled environment in Brazil. She shares the harrowing journey of her family's induction, daily life, eventual escape, and the immense challenges they faced reintegrating into mainstream society. Along the way, Celeste discusses how her family has processed their experiences as adults—now sharing their story on TikTok to aid healing and raise awareness.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Allure of Belonging: Celeste’s Parents Enter the Cult

Timestamps: 16:13–19:35

• Celeste explains both parents came from chaotic homes and were seeking community and purpose.
• Her father, struggling with homelessness and addiction in America, was taken in by the group:

  "He says they saved his life." —Celeste Gross (16:13)

• Her mother, in Brazil, similarly latched onto the promise of hope and belonging offered by the group.
• Both parents joined what seemed an innocent, gospel-driven movement where they could not only survive but thrive in a close-knit community.

2. The Mission, Foundation & Hierarchy of the Children of God

Timestamps: 19:35–23:10

• The group initially focused on “preaching the gospel to every creature,” often through music and outreach.
• Living arrangements evolved from small households to compounds of up to 80 people.
• Finances: Homes, food, clothing, and even cars were obtained entirely from outsider donations, with the children used as a visible, persuasive tool.

  "I think the kids were the biggest bait..." —Celeste (21:03)

• The cult operated under strict hierarchical control via "Mo letters" from the founder, David Berg:

  "He would write and send out to all the homes, telling us exactly how to live... how many squares of toilet paper to use, how you fold your T-shirt, everything." —Celeste (21:58)

• David Berg (“Moses”/“Mo”) was never seen directly by most members, controlling the global movement through written edicts.

3. Daily Life in the Cult: Child’s Perspective

Timestamps: 26:54–38:32

• Children, including Celeste and her six siblings, lived segregated from their parents in age-group dorms and were supervised by assigned adults rather than family.
• A rigid daily routine:
  • Early communal breakfasts; food depended on last week’s donations.
  • Homeschooling focused on English and biblical studies, neglecting sciences and outside knowledge.
  • Chores, group Bible study, and brief evening visits with parents.
• Access to media was tightly controlled:

  "We had all our own music, our own TV shows, because we weren't allowed anything from the outside." —Celeste (41:02)

• Three exceptions: Cult-produced shows, “The Wizard of Oz,” “Pollyanna,” and the German film “Sisi,” for unknown reasons.
• Music was composed and performed by group members; Celeste’s dad was one of these musicians.

4. Social Control and Isolation

Timestamps: 38:32–44:39

• The cult established a strict media ban, with only in-group content and rare outside films permitted.
• Secular contact was forbidden; contact with non-member family was once per year at most.
• Strict rules for every aspect of life, including the infamous toilet paper ration:

  "Two when you pee and three when you poop. That's it." —Celeste (44:55)

5. Life on the Outside: The Family's Sudden Flight

Timestamps: 48:37–55:31

• Celeste’s father was demoted for "temper issues" and decided to leave; the group allowed the rest of the family to stay, but her mother insisted they all go together.
• The family became homeless overnight, with nothing but a VCR-DVD player (sold to buy bus tickets to her grandmother’s house).

  "Overnight, we were homeless and we had nothing to our names..." —Celeste (48:44)

• Arrival in the outside world was traumatic: theft, poverty, and having to rebuild from scratch.
• Integration into public school was harsh; they faced bullying and alienation due to their naivety and strangeness.

6. Long-Term Effects and Processing the Past

Timestamps: 55:31–61:28

• Celeste and her siblings struggled with shame and the challenge of not publicly sharing their background for years.
• Her parents never really discussed what happened; they coped by focusing on survival and moving forward.

  "In the beginning, we didn't consider the trauma or what were the complications of growing up in a cult... My parents were just like, okay, typical. Moving on." —Celeste (55:26)

• The children eventually adapted, but the trauma and lack of life skills left their mark—parents never learned long-term planning due to indoctrinated beliefs about the “end of the world.”

  "In our minds, we were told Jesus was gonna come back and we don't have to worry about doing anything..." —Celeste (56:39)

7. Celeste Today: Healing and Advocacy

Timestamps: 58:00–61:28

• Celeste, now a private chef, processes her past by sharing on TikTok:

  "I'm grateful for [my experiences], in spite of it all, because I am incredibly resilient, adaptable. I can read the room like no one." —Celeste (58:21)

• She underscores both the negative (lack of trust, especially toward men, trauma) and the positive (resilience, resourcefulness) impacts of her upbringing.
• Collaborating with siblings to share their story publicly has offered healing, despite her parents’ discomfort with public discussion:

  "I told them, I said, you know, we need to talk about it because this is our story and we have the right to tell it." —Celeste (59:40)

• The family’s TikTok: @7siblingsinacult

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "They saved his life." — Celeste, on her father's initial encounter with Children of God (16:13)
• "He would dictate and everybody would just follow what he wrote. So he was the mastermind... but he never showed his face." — Celeste (21:58)
• "I didn't know I was in a cult. I thought that's just how everyone lives." — Celeste (38:33)
• "When you pee: two. When you poop: three. That's it." — Celeste (44:55) [on toilet paper rationing]
• "Overnight, we were homeless and we had nothing to our names except my parents' VCR-DVD... that's the only thing they owned." — Celeste (48:46)
• "I started that TikTok account... we need to talk about it because this is our story and we have the right to tell it." — Celeste (59:40)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 16:13 — How Celeste's parents joined the Children of God
• 21:58 — The power and reach of the "MO letters" from David Berg
• 26:54 — Daily life inside: communal routines and education
• 41:42 — Media ban: only cult-approved content and three outside movies
• 44:55 — Strict rationing and rules (toilet paper, food)
• 48:44 — Family's sudden expulsion and journey out
• 53:52 — First experiences in the outside world; culture shock and shame
• 58:21 — Processing trauma, building resilience, and healing through storytelling

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Additional Insights

• Celeste and her siblings' TikTok, @7siblingsinacult, is mentioned as a platform for healing and connection for other survivors.
• Both hosts reflect on parallels from their own cult childhoods, noting the unique ways strict belief systems shape childhood experiences, media access, and adult worldview.

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Further Resources

• Celeste on TikTok: 7siblingsinacult
• For more episodes on cult survival and recovery, explore the Trust Me podcast library.

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Tone:
The episode maintains a compassionate, candid, and sometimes darkly humorous tone, providing both gravity and humanity to the subject of cult survival.

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Transcript

[Celeste Gross]

This is exactly right.

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Would I ever lead you astray?

[Celeste Gross]

Trust me.

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This is the truth.

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The only truth.

[Lola Blanc]

If anybody ever tells you to just trust them, don't. Welcome to Trust Me, the podcast about cults. Extreme belief and manipulation from two celestial beings who've actually experienced it. I'm Lola Blanc.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And I'm Megan Elizabeth.

[Lola Blanc]

If you're a bad Mormon, you're a telestral being at no one gets that joke, okay? This week, not at all. Our guest is Celeste Gross, survivor of the Children of God, AKA the family. She is going to share what it was like growing up in the cult along with her many siblings who all talk about it on TikTok. She'll explain to us how her parents joined when it still just seemed like a beautiful gospel movement that helped her dad get sober and what it was like living on the commune in Brazil, living off of donations with every part of life controlled and down to how many squares of toilet paper they were allowed to use.

[Megan Elizabeth]

We're going to get into the media ban the group imposed and how only songs and TV shows made by the group were allowed other than two very specific movies, which will surprise you. Celeste will tell us about how her family became homeless overnight after they finally left and the extreme hardships they faced while trying to rebuild a life from nothing.

[Lola Blanc]

That's right. And before we hear Celeste share her story, I would love to know your culties thing of the week.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Megan, My cultist thing of the week is Billionaire Peter Thiel. You know him?

[Lola Blanc]

We love Peter Thiel.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Billionaire Peter Thiel. And I had high hopes for Peter Thiel. You know, kind of like a good looking gay billionaire. I thought maybe you did. Yeah, I thought at least he'd serve us like some Gatsby. Do you know what I mean? Sure. Like I thought something other than what is happening. I'm getting my Information off of cnn. So Peter Thiel is in Rome, it says, near the Vatican. He's not at the Vatican because to quote, mean girls like you don't even go here. They don't want anything to do with him. But he is near it at a, quote, unquote, undisclosed location, talking and giving lectures about the Antichrist. Now, what is the Antichrist according to Peter? I'll tell you, it's going to look like peace. What it's going to look like people being anti technology and anti climate change. And do you know who Peter has seen as being? Somebody not the Antichrist in particular, but is Antichrist adjacent and probably working with the Antichrist.

[Celeste Gross]

Who?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Greta Thunberg.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, of course she's the Antichrist. How would she not be the Antichrist?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Our little Swedish peace activist who's on a mission to bring clean water and food and peace to the world is actually just a part of the greater scheme in this Antichrist movement that will look like something good to us. So I'm just going to say, Peter, if you're listening to this, and I know you are, please go to the woods. You need to go deep into the woods. You need to do mushrooms by yourself, A hero dose. We need you to go into the

[Lola Blanc]

woods, Peter, and maybe stay there while you're at it. Just a thought.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Stay in the woods until your heart opens and speaks to you. You'll know when it is and when you can come back.

[Lola Blanc]

That's very generous of you.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Thank you. So, yeah, that's what's happening. And it just feels like a third of the world is in complete religious psychosis right now. As far as he goes, I don't think in my mind that he actually believes any of this. I think he's just trying to stir up that Christian.

[Lola Blanc]

But he does go to church. Like, it's interesting.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I know.

[Lola Blanc]

I'm like, do you? I don't know. Whoever knows, though, you know, whoever knows when someone is in that has that much power, like, they could believe anything and they could be a scheme. It could all be a scheme. They could believe it. I have no fucking idea.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And the more power you have, the more likely it feels. I haven't done this study, but it feels like you just start believing weirder and weirder shit.

[Celeste Gross]

Sorry.

[Lola Blanc]

I mean, you do have less empathy. You do connect less to the plight of others. That is, that has been shown over and over and over again in research. So, like, maybe when you are less connected to others, that's more conducive to developing weird beliefs. About people who do care about others or something.

[Megan Elizabeth]

You know, I guess I'm, you know, in my research, I still have yet to really understand what he thinks is, like, what does he want for society? Because it's not peace. It's not.

[Lola Blanc]

He wants his own wealth. He wants to justify, however, to maximize his giant pile of money.

[Megan Elizabeth]

It's just very strange.

[Lola Blanc]

I know.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Put it mildly. But, yeah, Peter, like I said, please go to the woods.

[Lola Blanc]

I love go to the woods as just like a general refrain that we can say about anyone who's, like, being fucking crazy. Just go to the woods. Take a little time. Oh, yeah, go. Get away from your money for one second.

[Celeste Gross]

Yes. Go to the woods.

[Megan Elizabeth]

My God, the forest.

[Lola Blanc]

It's like, go to the mattresses, but go to the.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Go somewhere and just touch the grass.

[Lola Blanc]

In fact, it's the opposite of go to the mattresses. Wow.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. Wow. Yeah. What about you? What's your cultiest thing of the week?

[Lola Blanc]

Uh, well, so some folks might remember that a little bit ago, maybe a year or two ago, I was talking about the stuff that was going on with my mom and what she was doing in this FLDS town. And finally, you are all going to get to see exactly what happened. It's so crazy. There is a docu series coming out that ironically is called Trust Me, but it is not our series, although I do. I think I am in it and my song is in it. But it is called Trust Me, the False Prophet, and it is on Netflix. It drops April 8, and it follows my mom's journey entering this historically FLDS town as an outsider and how she kind of came to earn the trust of the people, which was a whole other. That could be a whole episode on its own.

[Celeste Gross]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

And then the new prophet decided to ask her and my stepdad if they would start filming him. And of course, over time, they realized that he was engaging in illegal acts, and my mom contacted the authorities. At first she was told she didn't have enough evidence, so then she started collecting evidence and went officially undercover. And spoiler alert, the man is now in prison. And you guys can watch the whole story on April 8th. The trailer looks amazing. I have not seen the series. I think it's gonna be a very, very dramatic one. So that is my coldest thing of the week.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yes. I cannot wait to see it. The name will not be hard to remember. It is called Trust Me. So just type that into Netflix. When does it come out again? Did you already say that?

[Lola Blanc]

I did, but I'm gonna say it again. It's April 8th, and I just wanna shout out all of the women and girls who came forward with their stories and were able to break free from this man and take him down because there is a whole group of incredible strong survivors who were a part of this. And, and yeah, I'm excited for y' all to get to see all of their stories.

[Megan Elizabeth]

You know, the thing that's so annoying is that this man rose to power because Warren Jeffs went to prison. Then this man's going to go to jail. And I just really hope that the buck stops here.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, but it's just like I feel like in religions where the premise and the foundation of them are that someone just had a vision and then told people that just unfortunately, I think just intrinsically leaves room for new people to do that. It's like until or unless you eliminate the fundamental belief system that someone can just deem themselves the leader, like, how do you stop that? And maybe we can talk about that with my mom when we have her on, hopefully in a few weeks.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, that is the question. Well, again, I can't wait to see it and I can't wait for y' all to hear this interview with Celeste.

[Lola Blanc]

Let's get into it.

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[Lola Blanc]

Welcome. Celeste grows to trust me. Thank you for joining us.

[Celeste Gross]

Thank you for having me.

[Lola Blanc]

So Megan found you on TikTok, is that right?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Correct.

[Lola Blanc]

Because you and your siblings have been sharing your stories about your childhood in the Children of God, also known as the family.

[Celeste Gross]

Yes.

[Lola Blanc]

Can you start us at sort of the beginning of your family's journey and tell us how your parents met and how they originally joined.

[Celeste Gross]

My father is American, born in Baltimore, Maryland. My mom is Brazilian, born in Sao Paulo, Brazil. My father joined the cult. He was kind of living on the streets. He didn't really. He was into drugs. My father had a very chaotic childhood as well, was abandoned by his parents when he was super young. So at a very young age, he just was kind of living on the streets, kind of no direction. And he met this group that he describes as. He says they saved his life. So he had no direction. He had no home, he had nothing. He had no family. And they took him in and he felt communion and he felt a sense of belonging. And he met. It was a beautiful movement at the time where all these young hippies in the 60s got together and. And just read the Bible and sang a lot, but also party like. But he was into it. And so he started traveling and ended up in South America somehow with the cult. He joined the cult. I think he was around 19 or 20 when he joined. My mother in Brazil. Also came from a very chaotic family and upbringing. So her brother, my uncle George, he was a seeker. And he invited her one day. He said, I met this very cool group. They live in communion. And they invited us for like, some devotion and some time at their space. Let's go. So he took my mom. Little did she know that that was one of the meetings they had, like gatherings, let's say, for outsiders to come and see how they lived. And my mom instantly fell in love. I don't know if she fell in love or if she maybe just saw hope of a better living and a better future since she grew up in such, like, a bad environment. So shortly after meeting this group, she went home. She told my grandmother she was leaving. She packed her bags and she joined the Cult, like, overnight.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Wow.

[Celeste Gross]

And at one point, my parents met because my dad traveled through South America. Eventually he made his way to Brazil, to Sao Paulo, and met my mother at one point. My mother was 20 and my dad was 25, I guess, at that point. So that's how my parents met.

[Lola Blanc]

Wow. I mean, it's such a good illustration of how people don't join something that they think is a cult. They join something that seems to really be offering answers to what they're looking for or in need of in their lives. So your dad got sober in the Children of God?

[Celeste Gross]

Basically, yes.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Wow.

[Lola Blanc]

I mean, yeah. Like, going from not having a home and being not sober when you really need to be to having not only a home, but like a family and a community and, you know, getting some stability to help you get that sobriety. I mean, of course, that sounds great. Sign me up. I would do the same in his position, you know, and in your mom's as well. We've covered Children of God before, but it's been a minute. So was there, like, a larger mission or like a greater.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. Like, what were the beliefs of the Children of God? My.

[Celeste Gross]

My parents said it was very beautiful in the beginning. And in a sense, in a way, their mission was just preach the gospel to every creature. So they would just, like, go and talk to people about Jesus, but, like, in a very innocent way. That's how they describe it in the beginning. Also, I think my parents were pretty naive in the beginning when they first joined.

[Lola Blanc]

Right.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And in the beginning, were they living on compounds? Was everybody living together?

[Celeste Gross]

Yeah. My parents say that there were lots of people living in compounds, and then there were people that lived with families. Two or three families in a house. So, no, not that big. We lived through every kind of situation. We lived in compounds with up to 80 people. And at times, we shared our house with two or three other families. But for the most part that I could remember, we lived in bigger houses with a lot of people. But my parents. I think in the beginning it was smaller compounds.

[Lola Blanc]

Would it be like on a ranch, like with a farm, a commune? Or would this be like, in the city?

[Celeste Gross]

It would be both. It would usually be on the outskirts, but we lived off of donations. But so it was really what they could get. But they could actually get some very nice houses. It was, like, not really a house. It was like a compound with the guest house, with this, with that, but still very crowded.

[Lola Blanc]

How would they convince people to donate enough money for a living situation like that?

[Celeste Gross]

Well, I think they use the kids a lot. Like we would sing. We would, they would line us up and we would sing in front of strangers, like let's say the owner of a grocery store. And they would go to the grocery store and say, hey, we are from Children of God. And we, our missionaries and our mission is to save the world and preach the gospel. And we rely on donations and here are the kids. And then the kids would all line up and sing. And of course, people, I think the kids were the biggest bait, but it's crazy because they got homes, giant homes, compounds, donated cars, everything, everything was donated. Food, all the, all the beds, blankets, everything you need to live was donated to us. Who was incredible?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Who was running it? Who's in charge?

[Celeste Gross]

The guy that found it was David Berg back in the 60s in California. But then it spread worldwide. At one point, I think when it had the most followers, it had over 50,000 followers. So it was worldwide. So it was set up where the hierarchy, where this guy is in charge of this whole cult and the whole city. And. But then each home would have. So each layer of it had a person in charge. But everything came from David Moe, the MO letters that he would write and he would send out to all the homes telling us exactly how to live, exactly how much toothpaste to use to brush our teeth, how many squares of toilet paper to use, how you fold your T shirt, everything. Wow. Everything. He would dictate and everybody would just follow what he wrote. So he was, he was the mastermind. And then there were people below him, but he was always up here. But he never showed his face. No one knows where he lived because also there was a lot of prosecution. So he always hid, right? But he controlled everyone through his MO letters.

[Lola Blanc]

Foreign

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[Lola Blanc]

What do you remember of your childhood? Like, what was day to day life like in these different places?

[Celeste Gross]

I remember my siblings a lot because there were seven of us and we're all super close in age. So I remember we were separated into age groups. So, like, I would be in the dorm with all the 8 through 10 year olds, and then my siblings would be in another one and another one. And we would all share dorms that had bunk beds that were three bunk beds so we would all could fit in a room. And we always had one person responsible of taking care of us. A teacher or someone that would watch us. We were separated in groups of 12 to 15 kids, and we would just live together in this dorm. And we, we were homeschooled many hours a day in the morning. So our routine was essentially, we would wake up, we would go to this hall where everyone would be there having breakfast. So like 80 people having breakfast at once. Breakfast was always pretty disgusting because it was like, I remember they would put these fried eggs on trays, but, like hundreds of fried eggs, and they would all pop together to yolk, and we would always eat what to us. So let's say we were donated boxes of green bell peppers that were like half rotting. We would clean them out.

[Lola Blanc]

They would.

[Celeste Gross]

They would line us up, we would clean out the. The rotting pieces, and we would eat green bell peppers for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. So it always depended, like, what was donated to us that week or whatnot.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Wow.

[Celeste Gross]

We would have breakfast and then we would. I believe we would go to Bible study for an hour or two after breakfast. From there, we would be homeschooled for four or five hours a day. We would have one hour to play in the afternoon, and then we would have dinner, and then we would have more Bible time, like the whole home together. And then we had about one hour to spend with our parents in their room before we had to go to our dorms and sleep. And that was like every day.

[Lola Blanc]

So you weren't living with your parents, you were living in dorms with kids your own age, right?

[Celeste Gross]

Yeah, but my parents, Our parents lived in the house.

[Lola Blanc]

Okay, but.

[Celeste Gross]

But our parents, like, every adult in that house had a. A job. So some Adult jobs were to take care of the kids. Others were to go and get donations, others were to cook. There was. So my parents were always doing something that they had to do whatever their duty was, but they weren't taking care of us. We were handled by other people that were responsible for that.

[Megan Elizabeth]

How early was breakfast? How early were they waking people up? Like, how busy were they keeping everyone? Because that seems like a full schedule.

[Celeste Gross]

Yeah, we stayed pretty busy. There was not much time. Like in the afternoon we had time to play outside after being homeschooled. But we also had chores. So, like, they would give us, like, for example, you're going to clean this and that, and we would clean for hours. We. We didn't have much time to goof off.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, it doesn't sound like it.

[Lola Blanc]

And when you say homeschool, like, what's the curriculum? Is it like real school? Is it David Berg?

[Celeste Gross]

So when I was 9 years old that I left and I. And I went to real school, I was really bad at some subjects, but then in other subjects, I was super advanced, more than people in regular school. But it was definitely not like a regular school. Definitely had a lot of English because everyone in the cult, no matter where we lived, our common language was English, even though I grew up in Brazil. But everyone in our home spoke English, so we learned a lot of English. We learned a lot of the Bible too, even though we were in school. But it was a lot of Jesus in that school. So we didn't learn things like science because.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Right.

[Celeste Gross]

I don't think they believe in science. We were taught about evolution. We were taught that we. The whole. We didn't come from monkeys. So they had their own agenda. It wasn't regular. It wasn't a normal school, like, at all. It was a lot weaker.

[Lola Blanc]

And there was just someone, one of the adults was designated to, like, teach you guys. Basically.

[Celeste Gross]

Yeah. They weren't necessarily a teacher. They were just.

[Lola Blanc]

Jenny.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I'm assuming that they. That the English was the required language so that the mole letters would be more accessible. Is that the deal?

[Celeste Gross]

No, because they made their materials in every language. They translated to every language. We had posters that we would sell. We had cassette tapes. We had videos with all the material that we would also sell to make money. And they would come in Japanese and Portuguese and Spanish and English. I don't know why. Why they decided that Eating baby. Because David Berg was American, so he wanted everyone to speak that language. Yeah, it was good, though, because we all learned English living in Brazil. So in a way it was a good thing.

[Lola Blanc]

And this was such an international movement.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Right.

[Lola Blanc]

Like there were many countries that had outposts of this group.

[Celeste Gross]

Yeah. So I think they wanted to have a language in common that everyone could because there were people from all over the world and I think they wanted everyone to be able to understand each other at the end of the day.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Did different communes, compounds of countries have different rules?

[Celeste Gross]

No.

[Megan Elizabeth]

It was all okay.

[Celeste Gross]

We all followed. We all followed the same rules because

[Lola Blanc]

the letters would go to everyone and everyone would have to follow them.

[Celeste Gross]

Yes.

[Lola Blanc]

Did your. Anyone in your family ever meet David Berg?

[Celeste Gross]

No.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Wow. What did you picture him to be like when you were younger?

[Celeste Gross]

Well, he, he and those MO letters, they were all like, they had hand drawn images. So it was kind of a cartoon character that he made for himself. And in this cartoon character, he has this big beard. So in my mind that that was him. But I've googled his face. He. In these mo letters, he looks like this nice little like grandpa with big white beard, Kind of like Santa Claus and. But yeah, he. In real life he looks a little crazy.

[Megan Elizabeth]

That's. So. Are you looking him up right now? Yeah. What's the vibe?

[Lola Blanc]

I mean, he definitely has photos with his very long beard where he looks Santa like. But then there's like him just like surrounded by girls.

[Celeste Gross]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

Being creepy. Very Warren Jeffs type pictures.

[Megan Elizabeth]

What do you think was so special about him that got people united?

[Celeste Gross]

I really don't understand. Like, I feel like people, some people are just so lost and they're just looking for someone that pretends like they know what they're doing.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Well, that you just hit the nail on the head in a more simplistic way than I've ever heard it. And you're completely correct. Yes. Yeah. Okay. So he wasn't. These letters or his speeches weren't incredibly invigorating or smart or.

[Celeste Gross]

No, no. I can't imagine me as an adult ever seeing that in my life and being like, wow, this man has all the answers. I'm gonna blindly follow him.

[Lola Blanc]

I mean, it must have just really been about the people. It sounds like that's what it was for your parents. I think that's what it was for a lot of people is like, oh, these wonderful people who care about me are following this thing. So seems like it's working for them. I'm going to do it too. I think that's just like so incredibly powerful. And we forget that sometimes in the conversation about cults because we do focus so much on the charisma of the Leader. But then there's so many cases like this where the leader's not even there.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, these great people that you want to hang out with and live with.

[Celeste Gross]

Yeah. And I think also the idea of rebelling against the normal world of working, making money, so they had all this free, I'm free. We live off of donations. There's not that responsibility of following a 9 to 5 like everyone. We're better than that. I know it was very attractive for my dad because my dad never really wanted to work. He wanted the easy life. So he thought, oh, that's. That's convenient. I don't have to work.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, but you're working pretty hard, I imagine, on the.

[Celeste Gross]

Yeah, you work. But maybe because it's not a normal job like most people, then maybe they thought, it's not work.

[Megan Elizabeth]

It still feels rebellious. I can imagine. Yeah.

[Celeste Gross]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

Do you remember what your parents, like, responsibilities were, like, what they were assigned to?

[Celeste Gross]

I know my dad, at some point, he was high up on, like, the. In charge of the home we lived in. He was one of the leaders at some point. I remember my parents taking a lot of trips. I don't know what those trips entailed. Our parents have a lot of. They have some shame in the subject. They never fully shared what they would do on the. On those trips, but they said they were like faith trips, where you go when you find donations, I guess. But my parents weren't around for a lot, a lot of times, and we never really knew what they were doing.

[Lola Blanc]

Interesting.

[Celeste Gross]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

Did you feel close to them? Did you feel close to your siblings? How did it feel in your family?

[Celeste Gross]

Definitely close to my siblings because we were so close in age and we would see a lot more of each other than we would see our parents. Like, if we even saw our parents. It was maybe one hour or two hours a day maximum. But I don't remember necessarily not feeling close to my parents. I just thought that's how it is. I didn't feel necessarily abandoned by them. I just was like, well, we're taken care of. There's someone watching us.

[Megan Elizabeth]

You bring up a great point, which is that if you don't know anything else, everything feels normal. So.

[Celeste Gross]

Yeah. Yeah. Like, we had lots of aunties and uncles to us. Like, we were taken care of by everyone. Everyone was kind of our aunt and uncle. It was just a communal thing. Everyone took care of everyone's kids, took care, did whatever they wanted. But yeah, like, we were everyone's kids.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Right.

[Lola Blanc]

In a way that sounds fun.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I know.

[Lola Blanc]

I'M like, oh, a big family.

[Celeste Gross]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

All of these things have like such seeds of wonderfulness.

[Celeste Gross]

Yeah. Because there were some nice people there. So like the people that took care of us, that were nice, we loved to this day we remember their names. But then there were a lot of people with bad intentions too. So we were exposed to both.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

Did you believe in it? I mean, I know obviously you were very young. You left when you were nine, but. Or your family did, but do you remember feeling like it was like the true church? Like David Berg was a real prophet. Was, Was he a prophet? Yeah, he was a self proclaimed prophet, right?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Celeste Gross]

He called himself a prophet.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah.

[Celeste Gross]

I didn't think anything of him, honestly. I, I, because I didn't know. I didn't know I was, to me, like, okay, I didn't know I was in a cult.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Celeste Gross]

Like, I thought that's just how everyone lives.

[Lola Blanc]

It wasn't like a religious belief that was like drilled into you necessarily.

[Celeste Gross]

No, it was. But when you grow up like that, and that's all, you know, we only realized most things after we left. When you're, when we were in there was like, okay, whatever. We just follow whatever we're told. We do what we were supposed to do. We don't know. Oh, this is different.

[Lola Blanc]

Right. When I was growing up, because I grew up a mainstream Mormon, which is separate from what I call my cult experience. But Mormons are baptized at the age of 8, or at least they were when I was growing up. And you're asked to make a decision about your faith. So I'm like five, six years old and I'm like, yes, I have faith. I hear the angels. For sure. Definitely, definitely believe in Joseph Smith. You know, like, it was so, it was so like a part of our world. But also that like, Mormonism is very specific in that you're like asked to bear your testimony in front of everyone to talk about how you believe the church is true. And there's a lot of pressure to do it.

[Celeste Gross]

Yeah. And you don't even know what you're saying. You're just being fed and what you hear them saying. You're like, okay, yeah. As a child, you don't even know what that means.

[Lola Blanc]

No, no. Yeah.

[Celeste Gross]

No.

[Megan Elizabeth]

You have your own inner monologue about what it means. But you're also a child who is making up adult themes.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, for sure. And trying really hard to feel the correct thing that I'm supposed to feel.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

When you would sing in the, in a line to the strangers, what did you think, like, was that fun? Was it weird? Like, it could be fun?

[Celeste Gross]

Yeah, it was like, people loved it. They would be like, oh, so cute. I remember being so, so shy. Like, very shy. But we didn't really have a choice, so we just sang, like, kind of moping. My dad would. My dad would be like, smile. Like, show some enthusiasm. So then we would be like, yeah, whatever, But. But people loved it. Oh, so cute. All the kids. Or when it was like, sometimes it was us and the other kids from the same home. Sometimes it would be just me and all my siblings. So then people were always, like, impressed, like, oh, seven. Oh.

[Lola Blanc]

Do you remember what you sang?

[Celeste Gross]

What? We sang Jesus songs from the cults. Oh, I remember. I remember we had all our own music, our own TV shows, because we weren't allowed anything from the outside.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, what were the TV shows?

[Celeste Gross]

Ah, they were like, there's videos. You can YouTube it. There's like, all with, like, a lesson in the end. I was watching one the other day, and I was like, oh, my God. It brought back memories, like, because the music, we watch it over and over and over again. It's like a regular child watching Hannah Montana or whatever, right? But ours were Jesus shows made by the cult members, and that's all we had access to.

[Lola Blanc]

Wow. Oh, my God. I'm so curious.

[Celeste Gross]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I can't wait to watch one.

[Celeste Gross]

It's terrible.

[Megan Elizabeth]

That's wild.

[Lola Blanc]

I have no idea.

[Celeste Gross]

Fascinating. It was everything we had. But it was funny because they allowed us to watch two movies growing up. Because I remember well, because it was the only thing that was not their material that we were allowed to watch. Actually three movies. One was wizard of Oz from all, which has so much symbolism, and it has the evil monkeys and it has a witch, so how could they even allow us to watch that?

[Lola Blanc]

We also have the wizard.

[Megan Elizabeth]

It was a fraud. The person controlling us is a liar.

[Lola Blanc]

That's actually so funny.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Okay.

[Celeste Gross]

When I think of that, I'm always like, how was that one of the only ones allowed? It makes no sense. And then we could watch Pollyanna.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Okay.

[Celeste Gross]

It's. It's an old movie. Old, old movie. And we could watch cc it's an old movie, too. And those were the only three things we were allowed.

[Megan Elizabeth]

What?

[Lola Blanc]

Cc?

[Celeste Gross]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

What's Cece?

[Celeste Gross]

She's an. I don't remember the word, but Empress.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Okay.

[Celeste Gross]

In Germany or something. And it's a. It makes no sense. But, yeah, from all of them. The wizard of Oz was the. The funniest one, but other than that, Nothing.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Was there any secular music allowed or was it just the cult hymns?

[Celeste Gross]

Just cult music?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Who's making this cult music, David, all by himself or.

[Celeste Gross]

No, there. Because there was a lot of people that are part of our members that have talent, that are musicians. My father, for example, he was a musician. So they would sing a lot. They love to sing and play instruments.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Celeste Gross]

So, yeah, they made up all their Jesus music.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Oh my gosh.

[Celeste Gross]

I know. And they would sing and they would put concerts and they would record cassettes and sell the cassettes. And people would buy them too.

[Lola Blanc]

Wow. Like outsiders would buy them.

[Celeste Gross]

Uh huh huh.

[Megan Elizabeth]

We in our cult would make tapes of ourselves singing the hymns. We would not sell them. We would just share them with each other so that other people could be tortured by the sound of us singing. And. But like, some families would be such good singers and those tapes would be like, really flown around, you know, like,

[Lola Blanc]

how widespread are they going state to

[Megan Elizabeth]

state, state to state, crossing state lines. Yeah. I mean, sometimes you just couldn't wait to get your hand on one of those tapes. You. You really, you know. Yeah. But we weren't making up our own songs. It's cool that you guys. I mean, cool.

[Lola Blanc]

It's.

[Megan Elizabeth]

It's interesting that you were allowed to be like, this is a new hymn. I just made it up.

[Celeste Gross]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Sounds like. Yeah, it sounds like everybody was kind of going on the fly a little bit.

[Celeste Gross]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

Like doing their own thing.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. It sounds a little bit more rebellious, which was what attracted your father, I'm sure.

[Celeste Gross]

It's just.

[Lola Blanc]

Except that the toilet paper squares were.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, so. So how many toilet paper squares were people allowed to have in the children of God?

[Celeste Gross]

Two, when you pee and three, when you poop.

[Lola Blanc]

That's it.

[Megan Elizabeth]

That's not enough.

[Celeste Gross]

How did he choose that?

[Lola Blanc]

That's not enough.

[Celeste Gross]

I don't know. And it was donated toilet paper, which was usually the cheapest one.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, my God. The thin kind.

[Celeste Gross]

No, but in Brazil we had bidets, so.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Oh, oh, okay. Okay, okay. That's fine. I guess. What else was, like, odd?

[Celeste Gross]

Well, we were not allowed any. So no kind of processed food, which in a way, I don't see that as a negative thing. I'm not into processed food. And I know it's. It's because of the way I grew up. So no sugar whatsoever. Nothing. It was just whole foods and vegetables and fruits and no access to tv, no access to. We could not listen to radio. We had no contact with outsiders or very limited contact to outsiders, like our family members or cousins. We would see them maybe once a year. We would barely see them.

[Lola Blanc]

What would you do for fun? Like, what was recreation time?

[Celeste Gross]

Like, sometimes they would have parties where we would, like, light the grill and grill sardines or whatever was donated to us. And we would build fires and we would. They would play music and all the kids would be playing, and we had, like, parties with that. It was just be music and everybody dancing. So there were some parties sometimes, but obviously no alcohol. Sardine parties. Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

So no alcohol?

[Celeste Gross]

No.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. Were you guys hungry? Because peppers half cut up and. Yeah. This is not sounding very fulfilling.

[Celeste Gross]

Yeah. I don't know that we were hungry. I remember one time we. We went thirsty because the water. Something happened with the water, and we couldn't get water. And we went to sleep that night with no water. We were without drinking water for almost 24 hours. I remember I was so thirsty, I thought I was gonna. And my mom was like, just fall asleep and then it won't be thirsty anymore.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, my gosh.

[Celeste Gross]

And then the next day we woke up and there was water. But I don't remember food being an abundance. But I also don't remember going hungry. But like, my uncle from. He was. He's an outsider, and he would send us boxes because my. My aunts and uncles would feel bad for us. So they would send us a box of goodies, and we never saw those boxes of goodies. They would take it and they would give it to the pregnant women, because the pregnant women had a refrigerator that belonged only for them, and they got all the treats. So they could eat chocolate. They could eat everything that ice cream.

[Megan Elizabeth]

It makes sense. That's incentivizing people to be pregnant.

[Celeste Gross]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And make more babies.

[Lola Blanc]

Well, and was. Was that a big part? I mean, obviously, like, in your family, that's a lot of children. Notoriously, there were a ton of children and children of God, many of whom were being abused. But was the, like, procreate and have a lot of kids? Like, was that, like a big part of the culture?

[Celeste Gross]

Oh, for sure. My mom had seven, but there were women in there with 16, 21 babies. Wow. Oh, yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And are these all home births? Most of the time?

[Celeste Gross]

Yeah, most of the time. Home births or. My mom had us in clinics, too. She would go to clinics, but a lot of home births. And, like, for example, my mom would always be nursing one of her babies and another random baby. So it was very communal. The women wouldn't have milk, so then the other women would breastfeed everybody's babies.

[Lola Blanc]

Wow. So Your dad got kicked out, right?

[Celeste Gross]

Yeah, yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

What happened?

[Celeste Gross]

They demoted my father because they said that he had temper issues and he was a very angry person and he was not happy with that. He got. He was very prideful and he got very angry and he decided to leave. And they said, okay, well, your wife doesn't have to. Just you, your wife and your kids can stay. But then my mom said, no, if, if my. I'll go where my husband is going. If he's leaving, we're all leaving. And they said, okay, you're on your own then. So overnight, we were homeless and we had nothing to our names except my parents owed a vcr, a VCR dvd, like the two in one. That's the only thing they owned. So they sold that. And with the money, we crossed the country. My mom got us nine bus tickets and she had barely enough money for like, enough water, enough food for us to cross the country for 30 hours in a bus to go to the city where my grandmother lived on the other side of the country. And my grandmother took us in, all nine of us, into her two bedroom house overnight. Oh, my gosh.

[Megan Elizabeth]

So what is that, like to go from one world to a complete. Like, talk about the wizard of Oz. What did that feel like?

[Celeste Gross]

Yeah, I don't even know. Like, I think I was just so young and I didn't understand what was happening. My oldest sister, she understands everything. She understood everything that was going on, but, like, I was so young at the time that I didn't really follow what was happening. I just kind of went with the flow. I think it took us about six months for us to understand we had left and our parents just trying to, like, put one foot in front of the other and.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Celeste Gross]

But, yeah, it was a huge, huge shock when we realized, okay, this, we're out. Okay, now what?

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, my God. First of all, thank God they had that VCR DVD combo because, like, what the hell would you guys have done? And also, I can't believe that paid for that many tickets for all of you. Yeah, it seems like such a stressful journey both for you guys and as your parent, like, oh, my God.

[Celeste Gross]

Like, yeah, my parents had absolutely nothing to their names. Like, we. I have a picture of us in the bus station the day we were traveling across. Across the country. We all had just like a little grocery bag with our belongings. That's all we owned. That's all we had.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Wow.

[Lola Blanc]

Because nobody really owned anything in the cult, right. Because everyone was everyone's.

[Celeste Gross]

Yeah. So maybe like, we all own like, two changes of clothes and a toothbrush. So that was it. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Wow.

[Lola Blanc]

So how did your parents rebuild their lives and, like, find a home? Like, what happened then?

[Celeste Gross]

So much happened. So much happened that it's crazy. We almost went hungry. We lived in the middle of the slum in a one bedroom for all nine of us. Whoa. We went through so much. We had our house robbed while we were sleeping. And the thief, like, entered through the window where all me and my sister was. Were sleeping naked because we were. It was so hot. And these thieves came in. We had our little grocery bag of whatever belonged to us. These thieves came in in the middle of the night. We had just moved in two days ago, and they took our grocery bags. So we wake up the next day and the grocery bag we had with our toothbrush and our clothes is gone.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, my God.

[Celeste Gross]

My dad's. My dad's only set of clothes that he had to go look for work is gone. No, literally, like, we had nothing. Like, nothing. So the neighbors come and they say, hey, I think we found your stuff in the. In the alley back there. And we go. And the thieves were so dumb that they threw. The only thing of value that we had was my dad's American passport. They disposed of the passport behind the house.

[Lola Blanc]

Wow.

[Celeste Gross]

Thank God. Yeah. But, like, we had nothing to steal, but they managed to steal, like, literally our. Our only change of clothes. So it was not easy. We went through a lot of things until, I don't know, maybe five years after we left. My parents somehow managed. Like, my dad started to teach English because that's the only skill he had. He's American. In Brazil, he was like, I could teach English. That's easy. And my mom just stayed at home trying to raise us, cooking three meals a day and dealing. And we. We were, like, kind of going crazy when we discovered that there was a whole world out there and we started being exposed to it, and we. It was just. Wow. What?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. What. What was your first day of school like?

[Celeste Gross]

Well, first, when we first left, my mom. My mom, she volunteered at this Seven Day Adventist school. And in exchange, we all went to Adventist school for two, three years because my parents really wanted to keep us, like, protected. But after a few years, two, three years, that didn't work anymore. So then we went to public school. And my first year in public school, I was beat up at the exit of school. I was so naive. We were so naive. We were like these innocent kids. We knew nothing. And people looked at us and they were like, where did you guys come from? Like, what rock were you living under? Because we didn't know. We didn't know. We had no reference.

[Lola Blanc]

Right. Where was this?

[Celeste Gross]

This was in Sao Paulo in Brazil. It was. It was not easy. But then we stopped telling people we grew up in a cult because people would really treat us like aliens. And it was not our fault, but we carried a lot of shame. I carried a lot of shame. I know my siblings did, too. So I. I wouldn't tell people anymore. And I think part of it was just trying to put it behind us and be normal and move on. So in we. I think in the beginning, we didn't. We didn't consider the trauma or what were the complications of growing up in a cult. To us was like, okay, this happened. And my parents never really talked about it. Oh, that was crazy. No, my parents were just like, okay, typical.

[Lola Blanc]

Moving on.

[Celeste Gross]

Yeah, moving on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like. Like, okay.

[Lola Blanc]

I mean, and in fairness, they were in survival mode, it sounds like, for quite some time, which is like, yeah. Very destabilizing. Yeah. So many people come out of cults and are like your parents, where they, like, they don't have anything. They don't have a job, they don't have any resources. Sometimes they don't even have family relationships. Like, and that can be just such crisis mode. And I really feel for anyone who's had to. Who's had to go through that.

[Celeste Gross]

Yeah. No life skills.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Celeste Gross]

Out of nowhere, you're in the normal world, and you're like, okay, what am I going to do? I have seven kids to feed, and I have $0.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Right.

[Celeste Gross]

Nothing to my name. Oh, my gosh. What are they going to? Where are they going to sleep? We had no beds.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Oh, my God.

[Lola Blanc]

Wow.

[Celeste Gross]

My grandmother and, like, my aunts and uncles, they would try to help us. They would send us money, but, like, every month, we would have the lights cut out the water, the no money to buy groceries. We were late on rent. Like, my parents couldn't get it together. It took a very, very, very long time for us to have any kind of, like, idea of something semi stable.

[Lola Blanc]

Right.

[Celeste Gross]

My parents were never good. To this day, they're not good with finances and money, and they never really prepared for the future. They kind of just live every day. Like, and now they're older, and now they look back and they're like, wow, we really didn't think this through in our minds. We were told Jesus was gonna come back and we don't have to worry about doing anything. We don't have to worry about getting an education, about trying to be save money, retirement, because. Yeah. So now they're starting. Now they realize what. What they've done. The 40 years, 30 years later.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, I mean, Megan talks about that a lot. I mean, I won't speak for you if you feel like.

[Megan Elizabeth]

No, similarly, that's how I grew up thinking. And then I see a lot of kids, like my friends, kids also thinking that way just because of global warming. Or you're like, what do you want to be? And they're like, I don't fucking. I'm not going to be an adult. And you're like, oh, Kip got it. So you can just see how it spreads, that kind of thinking in many different forms.

[Lola Blanc]

So it's hard enough to take care of your finances when you don't believe in a doomsday.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

Like, I don't know how anyone does it. I'm really bad at it as it is.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Totally, totally.

[Lola Blanc]

Looking back on your experiences now, obviously, you know, you and your siblings have this TikTok where you all are sharing your stories. And I can imagine that's helpful to be able to kind of mind meld on it and process what happened to all of you. How did those experiences shape you as you grew up and became an adult? How do you think of them now?

[Celeste Gross]

I'm grateful for them in spite of it all, because I am incredibly resilient, adaptable. I can read the room like no one. Growing up like that gave me a lot of gifts. Just having to survive, having to be resourceful, having to just get over it. Because of that, I think growing up in a cult too, I don't like men. I don't trust men. Because I saw what men do, like my dad and my. My father included, unfortunately, like what they do to kids, what they. How abusive of power they can be. So I'm very, very careful when it comes to men. And I don't know, it's. I say what doesn't kill you, make you stronger. So I started that Tick Tock account maybe one year ago. My siblings, it's like pulling teeth, but I want them to participate more. Hopefully they will. But I told them, I said, you know, we need, we need to talk about it because this is our story and we kind of. We don't talk about it. We kind of brush it under the rug and it's something we all shared. It's like we all survived it. So it was actually really cool so far. It really helped. We were part of two other Podcasts where we all participated, and I think it helped us to start Heal as a family. Although my parents are really not happy about that idea, I told them it's our story, and we have the right to think to tell it. Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

When did you first realize, like, oh, that experience was so unusual and so,

[Lola Blanc]

like, it was a cold.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. What was that like?

[Celeste Gross]

It took me a long time to realize how crazy that experience was. Like, sometimes I'm talking to my sister, because my oldest sister, she's the one. Michelle, she remembers the most, she saw the most, she felt the most. So me and her will be reminiscing. And to this day, we talk about it, and then we just look at each other. Each other, and we're like, what the. Like, what? This is crazy. Like, what we went through is crazy. Now that we look back at it with the. With the. The knowledge of what's normal and what's not normal. So every day, I'm still impressed when I think back. And the more I talk about it, the more memories come back because I repress these memories. For so long, it's been very interesting to re. Remember and talk about it. And now that we're adults, just see how those experience shaped us. Like, we all went through the same experience, but all seven of us, we all have a different version of it or a different perspective of it, which makes it really interesting.

[Megan Elizabeth]

It's an incredible story, and I'm just amazed at how the whole family was able to get out and how you guys are now working together and sharing the story. And I want everybody to follow you. Where can people follow you?

[Celeste Gross]

Yeah. So we have a TikTok account, and our handle is seven siblings in a cult, seven being number seven. So TikTok, seven siblings in a cult.

[Lola Blanc]

And you're a chef now, right?

[Celeste Gross]

Yeah, I'm a private chef.

[Lola Blanc]

Cool.

[Celeste Gross]

I think, like, growing up with that horrible food make me want to, like, grow up and make good things.

[Lola Blanc]

Understandable.

[Celeste Gross]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

Well, thank you so much for joining us.

[Celeste Gross]

Thank you so much.

[Megan Elizabeth]

My, my, my, my, my, my.

[Lola Blanc]

Well, we've talked about Children of God before, and I know, Megan, that you would not. This wouldn't be your particular type of cult that you would join.

[Megan Elizabeth]

No.

[Lola Blanc]

But you had something about. Oh, wait, Sorry. Zoom Zoom is giving me a weird notification. We noticed you've spoken. Oh, what the hell? No. Okay. Sorry.

[Megan Elizabeth]

That was weird. We noticed you've spoken ill of Peter Thiel.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, my God. He's in the computer. Okay. You had something about the movies you were allowed to watch growing Up.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yes. So being raised in the two by twos, we weren't allowed to have a television or access to any media. And what we did have was a little, tiny VCR that was, like, very much hidden. We really weren't allowed to watch it very much. But we had a tape, and it was the Care Bears tape.

[Celeste Gross]

Oh.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And there was this boy in this particular tape that was called Evil Heart. He was like a very evil little boy. The Care Bears had to make good.

[Lola Blanc]

Aww.

[Megan Elizabeth]

But I was madly in love with him because he was, like, a bad boy.

[Celeste Gross]

Oh, my God.

[Lola Blanc]

Of course.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I'm three years old.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Cut to 20 years later. I'm doing an internship. I'm in a big city, and I turn around, and who do I see sitting behind me? Keep in mind that this is a cartoon, but I see the complete lookalike of the cartoon version of Evil Heart.

[Celeste Gross]

Okay.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And so I. I go up to him, and I'm like, oh, my God, you look like. And he's like, I know. And it turned out he was an actor and a TV show. But I did. I'd never seen the TV show because I didn't watch tv. And I was like, no, you look like Evil Heart from the Care Bear movie. And he was like, what?

[Celeste Gross]

And I was like, what?

[Megan Elizabeth]

And then we started dating for a very, very long time. What? He's the reason?

[Celeste Gross]

Yes.

[Megan Elizabeth]

This. This man ended up being the reason I stayed in Los Angeles after I got done with rehab and ended up staying here and living here. So it had a very big impact in my life, and he's still one of my best friends. He looks exactly like Evil Heart.

[Lola Blanc]

That is, if you want, hilarious.

[Megan Elizabeth]

He won't mind being. He won't mind being named. He was playing Sark in Alias at the time. The bad guy in Alias. And if you want to look up Sark, Alias, and Care Bears Evil Heart, you will see that they are the same person in my mind.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, I totally see it. Don't you? I totally see it. Like, he just needs redder hair.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Just if he had red hair.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah. This reminds me of the kid from Toy Story who? Everyone. Do you know about the actor who looks just like the kid from Toy Story? And everyone thought he literally was the actor from Toy Story, and it's like he was a cartoon. Also. He was a. Like a baby when that movie came out. Wait, what is the name of the actor? Hold on. The character is Sid Phillips, but the actor is Will Poulter. Do you know who Will Poulter is?

[Celeste Gross]

Yes.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yes. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Yes.

[Lola Blanc]

Will Poulter is literally exactly the evil kid from Toy Story. But he's obviously not. There's like a mass delusion from all of us, including myself. Were like, oh, yeah, the guy from Toy Story.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Well, I can relate because I literally was like, I can't believe I'm dating

[Celeste Gross]

the guy from the Care Bear movie.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And then I was like, you're not,

[Celeste Gross]

because it's a cartoon.

[Megan Elizabeth]

But inside, I really thought that I was. So shout out to two cults limiting your movies to very small things and making their own because it led to a. Led to a whole new life for me.

[Lola Blanc]

That's a love. That's so nice. Yeah, I. I was allowed to watch movies and listen to music, but.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Okay, show off.

[Lola Blanc]

Sorry. But there was a Mormon book series called Tennis Shoes among the Nephites that I was obsessed with and. Have I talked about this before? I'm sure I have, but it's like a. Kids go time traveling into, like, the Book of Mormon days. Tennis Shoes among the Nephites. Can I tell you the audiobook? On long road trips, Listening to this in the car like, nothing has ever. I haven't loved anything that much since Peak Experience.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Totally dang.

[Lola Blanc]

There's some good Mormon content. Just saying.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Well, while I wouldn't join the children of God, I will join the people who think cartoons are real. And yeah, the mind is a crazy, crazy place.

[Lola Blanc]

So true.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Thank you. Thank you so much for listening to another episode of Trust Me. We appreciate you so much. Rate us 5 stars if you can, if you want to. And as always, remember to follow your guts. Watch out for red flags, and never, ever trust me. Bye.

[Lola Blanc]

Later. This has been an exactly right production,

[Megan Elizabeth]

hosted by me, Lola Blanc, and me, Megan Elizabeth. Our senior producer is Jiha Lee.

[Lola Blanc]

This episode was mixed by John Bradley.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain, and our guest booker is Patrick Cotner.

[Lola Blanc]

Our theme song was composed by Holly Amber Church.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Trust Me is executive produced by Karen Kilgareth, Georgia Hardstark, and Danielle Kramer.

[Lola Blanc]

You can find us on Instagram, USMePodcast or on TikTok USMeCult podcast.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Got your own story about cults, extreme belief or manipulation? Shoot us an email usmepod.

[Lola Blanc]

Listen to Trust Me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Celeste Gross]

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[Megan Elizabeth]

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