Claire Hoffman - Levitation, Meditation, and a Childhood in a Transcendental Meditation Trailer Park

Summary

Trust Me: “Claire Hoffman — Levitation, Meditation, and a Childhood in a Transcendental Meditation Trailer Park”

Podcast: Trust Me: Cults, Extreme Belief, and Manipulation
Hosts: Lola Blanc & Meagan Elizabeth
Guest: Claire Hoffman
Air Date: August 20, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode features journalist and author Claire Hoffman, who shares her firsthand account of growing up in a Transcendental Meditation (TM) commune—specifically in a meditator-only trailer park. Claire recounts how her family was drawn into the movement, her early life within this unique subculture, what “levitation” actually meant in practice, and how her understanding shifted over time. The episode explores the fine line between magical communal purpose and the unhealthy idolization of a guru, the curious rituals of the TM community, and Claire’s eventual questioning and detachment from the group.
Focus: Part one centers on Claire’s memoir, Greetings from Utopia Park: Surviving a Transcendent Childhood.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Background on Transcendental Meditation & Claire’s Family (03:29–04:23, 13:49–14:42)

• TM Context: Developed by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi (noted as The Beatles’ guru), TM began as a widespread meditation practice and evolved into a global movement. Critics and survivors have labeled more intense pockets of TM practice as cult-like, highlighting stories of strict control, expensive courses purported to lead to enlightenment, and idolization of the leader.
  • “Some do consider it a cult. David Lynch, may he rest in peace, made it more popular. And most likely that's the more chill version that your friends are practicing today.” — Lola (03:29)
• Claire’s Family Origin Story:
  • Claire’s parents met at a TM retreat in the 1970s, fell in love, and soon after started a family. Her father left while she and her brother were young. Struggling, her mother moved them to Iowa, where Maharishi had established a meditation community after buying a bankrupt university.
  • Her mother sought stability and community within the TM movement after a period of family upheaval.
    • “My dad was an alcoholic and super into coke and everything and he just left. And my mom was like, what do I do? I have these two little kids. So she moved us to this little town in Iowa that the Maharishi had bought a bankrupt university in.” — Claire Hoffman (14:42)

Life at the TM “Commune” and Utopia Park (19:00–24:45)

• Early Impressions:
  • Though Claire’s family was effectively poor, the move signaled hope and security. She recalls “storybook” visions of a magical life, even if realities like living in a trailer park persisted.
    • “I was really excited… It had been a super tumultuous time for us. I had just this vision of like a storybook—I was like, oh, I'm going to be able to play outside… Although then we got there, my mom was really scared of me being kidnapped, so… It was the 80s.” — Claire (20:23)
• Community Structure:
  • TM principles influenced day-to-day life: adults meditated for hours each morning and evening, left children largely unsupervised, and even regulated mundane behaviors (like precise chewing).
    • “Everything was just really organized according to Maharishi's principles of living… literally there was a point where they were sort of prescribing how many chews to take of each bite of food.” — Claire (24:13)
  • Utopia Park, the meditator-only trailer park, was vibrant with children and communal activities but underscored the gap between the “rose colored” ideology and real living conditions.

Belief, Ritual, and Guru Worship (25:27–27:15, 38:10–42:39)

• Maharishi’s Role:
  • He was distant, residing in India or Europe, rarely (if ever) appearing in person—appearing via telecasts or filtered through wealthy donor “messengers.”
    • “No, super wizard of Ozzy. He always lived… either in India or in Europe, and apparently there were, like, tax issues, so he never came.” — Claire (25:32)
  • Guru worship shaped the culture—birthday cakes were first offered to his photo, and rules often shifted according to his distant directives.
    • “He was like an omnipresent God. Like, I believe that he had the ability to know my thoughts and feelings and, you know, know if I had been meditating regularly or not.” — Claire (38:10)
    • “There would be, like, always, like, these giant cakes, and they would cut them, and they'd take the first slice of cake and put it in front of Maharishi's photograph.” — Claire (40:32)

“Levitation” and TM Mysticism (27:38–30:10)

• Levitation Practice:
  • TM’s “city program” promised supernatural abilities like levitation (and, fancifully, walking through walls or invisibility). In practice, “levitation” was physically hopping in lotus position on padded floors, never actual flying.
    • “It looks like kind of butt hopping… you kind of bounce along.” — Claire (29:22)
  • There’s a tongue-in-cheek acknowledgment of the gap between promised powers and reality.
    • “People barely kind of lost their minds doing it… It’s a meditation technique—like you meditate for like an hour and then you start saying these other different mantras. And there’s one, the levitation one, that’s supposed to make you sort of lift off the air, but no one, as far as I know, has actually maintained levitation.” — Claire (28:58/29:19)

Growing Doubt and the Shift Away from TM Belief (31:32–36:41)

• Awakening:
  • An announcement attributing the fall of the Berlin Wall to TM group meditation jarred Claire’s faith.
    • “The head of the school…made this announcement that they had just torn the Berlin Wall down and that it was because our meditations have been so powerful over the last few weeks. And I was just like, that's not true. Like, my meditations—I’ve been reading Cosmopolitan inside my bedroom during the time I'm supposed to be meditating. Like, that is just not a fact.” — Claire (32:11)
  • The presence of her father after his recovery (bringing in outside cynicism), combined with adolescent rebellion, contributed to her mental and emotional break from the community.
• Cult or Not?
  • Claire describes TM as high in devotion but lacking the most oppressive “high-control” tactics. She could leave without overt consequence.
    • “TM wasn’t like a high control situation… Like, I got on a plane to go move in with my dad. And, like, no one tried to stop me, and no one’s ever tried to stop me from saying anything.” — Claire (35:06)
  • However, people did experience penalties for failing to conform—devotees might, for example, be barred from group meditation for visiting other spiritual teachers.

Money, Consumerism, and Questionable Authority (34:30–36:41)

• Financial Barriers:
  • TM’s shadow, according to Claire, was primarily about money: expensive courses, supplements, and ceremonies.
    • “It was a money thing, as you can tell by the deal you got… That usually comes up.” — Claire (34:54)
  • The notorious “personal mantra” (often simply assigned based on birth year) became a paid commodity, and ever-advancing courses promised further enlightenment for a price.

Reflection and Empathy Towards the Guru (42:53–43:37)

• Nuanced Understanding:
  • Through reporting her memoir, Claire shifted to seeing Maharishi as a human, not a myth—learning about his ambitions, relationships, and ordinary desires.
    • “I would read…this woman who said she had an affair with him… and he's talking about his ambitions and…interest in banking and politics. And it just kind of made me be like, oh, wow. Like, he's just like a man.” — Claire (41:42–42:08)
  • This personalized view gave her empathy, though she recognizes many other cult survivors have experienced real harm and shouldn’t be expected to empathize with their leaders.
    • “I can kind of do that empathy exercise. But I feel like you guys have a lot of people who come on your show who are, like, from totally different things. So I'm not saying, like, everybody should be extended that thought exercise, but for me, it was…liberating.” — Claire (42:53)

Media, Socialization, and Escape (39:11–40:09)

• Magazines as Escape:
  • Pop culture (“Cosmo,” “Seventeen”) surfacing within the community gave Claire and others a look at the outside world—and, in strange ways, a strange education.
    • “You’re supposed to answer the phone sounding like you just finished having sex.”—Claire, laughing about Cosmo advice (39:56)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On arriving in the TM community:
  “I feel like my memories are all from those early years in a palette that is TM… which is pastel colored, you know, and slightly magical… There was a real sense of purpose and magic and possibility, which felt really good.” — Claire (21:10)
• On “levitation:”
  “It looks like kind of butt hopping or like—a kind of—it’s, I mean, some people achieve more grace and beauty. In theory, you’re supposed to be in lotus position… and you kind of bounce along.” — Claire (29:22)
• On the moment of doubt:
  “I was 12, and…they had just torn the Berlin Wall down and that it was because our meditations have been so powerful over the last few weeks. And I was just like, that. That's not true.” — Claire (32:11)
• On Maharishi as leader:
  “He was like an omnipresent God…I believe that he had the ability to know my thoughts and feelings…Although that obviously faded as I got more into, like, magazines.” — Claire (38:10)
• On transition to skepticism:
  “I think I felt myself just retreat into myself more and become more interested in the outside world.” — Claire (35:06)
• On the difference between TM then and now:
  “I still practice TM is the truth…David Lynch was a good thing for the TM movement in the sense that he sort of returned it back to…the meditation technique and less of the guru culture.” — Claire (37:22)

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Segment Timestamps

• [03:29] — Lola gives context for TM and the “cult-like” community practices.
• [14:42] — Claire describes her family’s move to the Iowa TM community and the allure of Maharishi.
• [20:23] — Childhood impressions of TM life, initial sense of magic, and communal hopes.
• [24:13] — Daily life in Utopia Park and the regimented lifestyle.
• [25:32] — Maharishi’s “Wizard of Ozzy” influence, filtered through donors and video messages.
• [27:38] — Breakdown of TM “levitation” and the gap between mystical promise and reality.
• [32:11] — Pivotal moment of skepticism (Berlin Wall claim).
• [34:54] — Discussion of TM’s emphasis on money and expensive enlightenment.
• [38:10] — Maharishi’s godlike status in the community and cult of personality.
• [40:32] — Childhood ritual of offering cake to Maharishi’s photo.
• [41:42–42:08] — Reporting her memoir and discovering Maharishi's human side, not just mythology.

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Tone & Style

The conversation is open, honest, and sometimes irreverently humorous—balancing empathy for the earnestness of belief with clear-eyed critique of manipulation and excess. Both guests and hosts draw personal parallels, often inviting laughter (“I’ve been reading Cosmopolitan inside my bedroom during the time I’m supposed to be meditating…”), and frequently return to the theme of how easily hope and need for purpose can tip into exploitation and cultish devotion.

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Takeaways

• The boundary between healing communal practice and cultic control can be blurry and often shifts over time or intensity.
• Idolization of a guru figure—especially one who is distant and rarely seen—creates both an aura of mystery and a mechanism of control.
• Many drawn to such communities are searching for meaning, safety, or healing during turbulent times—but the very mechanisms that give such groups their sense of magic can enable manipulation and disappointment.
• TM today, especially as popularized by David Lynch, is often practiced in a way divorced from the more controlling or mystical aspects described in Claire’s childhood.
• Questioning is often gradual, sparked by personal experience and outside influences rather than sudden revelations.

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Next Episode

Part two will focus on Claire’s more recent book, Sister: The Miraculous Life and Mysterious Disappearance of Amy Semple McPherson, and her broader reflections on faith, cults, and the psychology of charismatic leaders.

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Selected Quotes with Timestamps:

• “My dad was an alcoholic and super into coke and everything and he just left…So she moved us to this little town in Iowa that the Maharishi had bought a bankrupt university in.” — Claire (14:42)
• “Everything was just really organized according to Maharishi’s principles of living…there was a point where they were sort of prescribing how many chews to take of each bite of food.” — Claire (24:13)
• “He was like an omnipresent God…know if I had been meditating regularly or not.” — Claire (38:10)
• “I would read…[about his] ambitions and interest in banking and politics. And it just…he’s just like a man.” — Claire (41:42)

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This summary delivers the episode’s main narrative, key themes, and most thought-provoking moments for listeners seeking full context and understanding.

Transcript

[Lola Blanc]

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[Claire Hoffman]

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[Megan Elizabeth]

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[Claire Hoffman]

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[Claire Hoffman]

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[Lola Blanc]

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[Lola Blanc]

Trust me.

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Do you trust me?

[Claire Hoffman]

Would I ever lead you astray? Trust me.

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This is the truth. The only truth.

[Lola Blanc]

If anybody ever tells you to just trust them, don't welcome to Trust Me, the podcast about cults extreme belief and manipulation from two levitators who've actually experienced it. Not the levitation though. I'm Lola Blanc.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And I'm Megan Elizabeth.

[Lola Blanc]

Today is Part one of our interview with Claire Hoffman, former member of a Transcendental Meditation community and author of two different books we're gonna talk about. But for today, we're going to discuss her book, Greetings from Utopia, Surviving a Transcendent Childhood, which is about her childhood growing up on a commune like trailer park organized around Transcendental Meditation. In part one, today, she's going to tell us why her mother started practicing tm. What it felt like arriving at Maharishi's school at age 6 and growing up in the meditation focused community. What levitation actually was and why life there was actually kind of magical and gave her a sense of purpose.

[Megan Elizabeth]

When she was young, she'll talk about how she began to question the group and the unhealthy worship of the leader, almost like he was a God. How Cosmo magazine factored in and how doing research for her book and learning about how much he was really just a human man shaped her perspective on idol worship and helped inform her next book.

[Lola Blanc]

Real quick, some context for folks. So Transcendental Meditation is a meditation practice initially popularized by a man named, I think I'm pronouncing it correctly, Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, who was the guru to the Beatles and lots of very, very famous people in the 1970s. And most people use it relatively harmlessly since it's just one of many meditation techniques. And directing your focus through meditation can be generally helpful for folks. But some former members who were deeper in reported levels of control and isolation, an inordinate amount of worship of Maharishi and his alleged special powers, prohibitively expensive courses claiming to offer enlightenment, and claims that the TM community alone knows the right way to meditate. So some do consider it a. A cult. David lynch, may he rest in peace, made it more popular. And most likely that's the more chill version that your friends are practicing today. But that is a little bit of context for what we're gonna talk about.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Absolutely.

[Lola Blanc]

Before we do talk about it, Megan, please kindly tell me your cultiest thing.

[Megan Elizabeth]

The cultiest thing of the week for me is that I have been infected by tm. We go into it a little bit into the episode. I got taught it, I was given a mantra, and every day I feel guilty twice a day for not doing it.

[Lola Blanc]

You feel guilty twice a day? Sounds healthy. I can't get over the mantra thing. The mantra thing will never cease to be funny to me. Because it is just based on your birthday.

[Claire Hoffman]

Yes.

[Lola Blanc]

And it's presented as this, like, big, mysterious, otherworldly thing. Right.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Well, at least it's not like the final boss in Scientology where they hand you a crown drawing of, like, a.

[Lola Blanc]

It's true, but it's misleading. Like, I feel like people go in thinking it's this, like, mystical, you know, specialized.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Like, maybe nobody even else even has it.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, yeah, but it's, It's. That's.

[Megan Elizabeth]

No, there's like, 10 of them, and.

[Lola Blanc]

You'Re one of 10. Yeah. Yeah. I, I, Yeah. I wonder what my birthday mantra is.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Well, you could probably go. I mean, you can Google.

[Lola Blanc]

I don't. Oh, you can Google it. Oh, I was gonna say I don't want to pay for it, but if I can Google it.

[Claire Hoffman]

Great. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

Should we Google it right now?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Let's Google it right now.

[Claire Hoffman]

Okay.

[Lola Blanc]

What is my TM mantra? How do you find it?

[Megan Elizabeth]

By putting in your date of birth.

[Claire Hoffman]

Okay.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah. Oh, here we go. Mine, it looks like, would be KE reem.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Wow.

[Lola Blanc]

What's yours? Kiring.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I'm not telling. Mine still feels slightly sacred.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, no, no. You have to say multiple things. Oh, I see.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Oh, I had a second course where I got a longer part of my mantra, actually.

[Claire Hoffman]

Oh.

[Lola Blanc]

It's like, first, there are advanced techniques. You get more words as you go, but initially it's. It's categorized by your age. Okay, this is too confusing. I see it on a, A website that's trying to expose tm.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, I, I, I liked my TM teacher. I think a lot of people have really good intentions with it. I don't feel like I was exploited at all for it, but I can see how this could turn bad very quickly if you're, like, told you're going to levitate and shit.

[Lola Blanc]

Right?

[Claire Hoffman]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

So you got. You've been infected with this and you.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, I'm infected forever. Anyway, what about you? What's your cultiest thing?

[Lola Blanc]

That's such a tangent. I'm so sorry, everyone. Okay, here's my cultiest thing. I'm someone for whom politics is a very important part of my life, and social justice, I don't even like that term. I feel like that term gets a bad rap. But social justice is an important part of my life, and basically just like, fighting the man, you know, fighting abuses of power on a governmental level. And I've attended a lot of different actions and meetings and events and trainings, and I have been having a lot of conversations with friends who also value this sort of thing about how we can bring more people into come to this stuff and to, like, show up for that kind of Work, because in this day and age in particular, our attention spans are shot. There's a constant barrage of bad news. So it's hard to even know what to panic about. Cause then the next thing comes that brings a new wave of panic, you know? So, like, it's hard to know how to fight back against that, because there's just so much coming at us all the time. And that is why in some of these conversations we've been talking about, like, how to motivate people to participate in a cause and to show up to stuff. Because, like, we'll get a new news story that's horrific, and then we'll react to it, and then people will go to, like, a really big protest. But it's hard to get people to continue to show up beyond the point where it's, like, the top headline in the news story that day. You know what I mean?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. I mean, I think I know where you're going with this.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, I. I bet you do.

[Claire Hoffman]

So.

[Lola Blanc]

So one of the, you know, topics of discussion is, like, how to pull more people in and. And provide an emotional reward beyond having an outlet for their anger. Because our anger can only last so long. Like, it metabolizes, you know, like.

[Megan Elizabeth]

So you mean like a cult?

[Lola Blanc]

I mean, like, maybe some of the things occult does. But for good. But for good. And that's a very important asterisk, because as we know, some of these tactics to recruit people into causes can often be for bad. But in the case of, like, building a movement to promote justice and equality and solidarity, like, you. You do need to inspire people for the world that they want to create and not just the world that they're upset about in that moment. I think some groups are really great at that, and some groups are more policy driven, and it's a little dry. And, you know, they're. It's all different. But there have been times where I've attended some of these things, and I have almost expected that we were gonna, like, sing a song or something. I'm like. It feels.

[Megan Elizabeth]

You were, like, holding a candle. Ready.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah. Or, like, waiting for, like, not a. You know, not a pastor, but, like, waiting for someone to get up there who's gonna, like, you know, give a fiery speech and make me believe in something bigger than myself. And that is not always what happens. And of course, that's maybe unrealistic to expect all the time. But I will say, like, I think more people that I know certainly would probably show up to stuff if it functioned a little teeny bit more. Like church, where they're going. And they're not only finding purpose, they're finding community. They're feeling emotions, they're feeling an outlet for their hopelessness. You know what I mean? And sometimes I think activists who are doing such crucial work, I shouldn't generalize, but in some cases they're so focused on the important, important work that they're doing that maybe the seemingly less important component of like the emotional experience people are having while they're there isn't as much of a consideration, which totally makes sense because people's lives are on the line a lot of the time with this kind of work. But yeah, anyway, so that's why I'm like, let's just sing a song, you know, let's sing a song. Let's join hands. So some places are good about that, though. We talked about Al Anon in another episode and how you get up at the end and 12 step programs. How you get up at the end and you like hold hands and you say the thing together. All I'm saying is I want a little bit more ritual and just like a, just like a touch, just like a little bit more cultiness to just kind of basically motivate people to keep.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Coming back and never cross the line into badness as our goal.

[Lola Blanc]

That is always the goal.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Speaking of groups that we're good at making you feel like a big family. Let's talk to Claire.

[Lola Blanc]

Let's do it.

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[Lola Blanc]

Welcome Claire Hoffman to Trust Me. Thank you for joining us.

[Claire Hoffman]

I'm so excited to be here.

[Lola Blanc]

We're excited to talk to you because you have not one but two books that we want to talk to you about today.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Not one but two cults.

[Lola Blanc]

Not one but two cults. I will be curious to ask her later if she defines the second one as a cult. Sure, tbd. We will ask you that, but not yet. So the two books, first there was Greetings from Utopia, Surviving a Transcendent Childhood. That is about your own childhood growing up on a commune, correct?

[Claire Hoffman]

Commune. Ish. Yeah, Ish.

[Lola Blanc]

Okay.

[Claire Hoffman]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

And the second book, which we will also get into, is called Sister the Miraculous Life and Mysterious Disappearance of Amy Semple McPherson. So let's dive in and first can you just tell us a little bit about your childhood and how your family first joined this commune?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Ish.

[Lola Blanc]

That was a Transcendental Meditation community, right?

[Claire Hoffman]

Yeah. So my parents met at a Transcendental Meditation retreat in the early 1970s near Riverside, California. Actually, they were my mom was from New York and my dad was from Santa Cruz. But they met and kind of instantly fell in love. And they were both, to different degrees, kind of followers of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, who was this guy that the Beatles were super into and who was teaching this transcendental meditation technique to a lot of college students all around the world and especially in American universities. That was sort of their evangelical technique, so to speak. They really, it was like $35 to learn to meditate. And you know, they very quickly got pregnant with my brother and got married and they moved to New York City where my dad was trying to be a playwright and my mom was going to fashion design school and the marriage kind of fell apart. And, you know, my dad was an alcoholic and super into Coke and everything and he just left. And my mom was like, like, what do I do? I have these two little kids. So she moved us to this little town in Iowa that the Maharishi had bought a bankrupt university in and put out like a call to his followers all over the world for everyone to move there and practice meditation together and kind of extra layer on top of that. In the late 1970s, he had introduced a new form of meditation that was called the TM City program, which involved levitating. Aha. Yes.

[Lola Blanc]

Sounds real.

[Claire Hoffman]

Everything is real or the opposite, I can't tell. Yeah, so he had, he was really into quantum physics and he had a mathematical formula that showed that if large groups of people got together and practiced this levitation technique, we would create world peace.

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[Lola Blanc]

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[Lola Blanc]

Hi, I'm Cindy Crawford, and I'm the founder of meaningful beauty. When Dr. Sabah and I decided to do a skincare line together, he said to me, we are going to give women meaningful beauty. And I said, that's exactly right. We want to give women meaningful beauty, which means each and every product is meaningful.

[Claire Hoffman]

It has a.

[Lola Blanc]

A reason to exist. It's efficacious. You're going to get results, and then you just go out and live your life. Meaningful beauty Confidence is beautiful. Learn more@meaningful beauty.com.

[Claire Hoffman]

My family moved there in 1983 with this, like, sense of purpose to all meditate together and change the world. And by my family, I mean my mom and my brother and I. My dad was gone.

[Lola Blanc]

How old were you when you moved there?

[Claire Hoffman]

I was six. Okay.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Do you think that this is something your mom would have ever done without your dad? Kind of bob and off?

[Claire Hoffman]

Yeah. Yeah. It's a great question. I mean, my dad was always a little, like, saltier, I would say, and a little more cynical and just less, you know, he would say afterwards, like, she was more into it and he was just really into her. So, yeah, I do. I do wonder about that. And just the incredible destabilization. I mean, he left, I think, $50 on our dining room table. And my mom was like, what am I gonna do?

[Megan Elizabeth]

And you're in New York City.

[Claire Hoffman]

Yeah, exactly. It's like, do you want a sandwich?

[Lola Blanc]

Right, right.

[Claire Hoffman]

So, yeah, it was. It was a really tough situation. And she. I think that felt like her community in Iowa. Like, those were people that she was connected to through college and through the T, which is what they called it. And she sent us, we went to the Maharishi School of the Age of Enlightenment, which was Maharishi's special school, K through 12.

[Lola Blanc]

Can you just talk to us about, like, what the experience of arriving there was, like, at such a young age? Like, was that confusing or exciting or, like, what did that feel like?

[Claire Hoffman]

I mean, I think I was really excited. I mean, it had been like a super tumultuous time for us. You know, I. I mean, my mom was like a really good mom in, in a lot of ways. So she created stability, but it's super unstable. And, you know, we got there and I had just this vision of like a storybook. Like, I was like, oh, I'm going to be able to play outside. That was like my main thing. I was like, I'm gonna get to be outside. Although then we got there, my mom was really scared of me being kidnapped, so. Because it was the 80s, right?

[Lola Blanc]

The whole milk carton. A lot of milk carton photos. Yes.

[Claire Hoffman]

Yeah, yeah. It was like, actually just equally as intense.

[Lola Blanc]

Did you believe in the religion at that age? I mean, like, yeah.

[Claire Hoffman]

Oh, totally. I was so in. Like, I mean, it. I. I feel like my memories are all from those early years. In a palette that is tm, I would say, like, if you were like, AI make a tm, like movie, it would all be like a TM filter, which is pastel colored, you know, and slightly magical. And. Yeah, I mean, there was a lot that really worked for me as a kid. Right. There was a real sense of purpose and magic and possibility, which felt really good.

[Lola Blanc]

I mean, you know, as someone who also believed I was gonna save the world or something, as a child, I can attest, I mean, I was a little older, I was 12, but I can attest that, like, that's a really special and exciting feeling. You're like, oh, my gosh, I'm a part. It's like being Harry Potter. I'm a part of this bigger thing and I'm like part of, you know, these chosen people.

[Megan Elizabeth]

It also just sounds like it's so. It sounds beautiful. Am I imagining that correctly? Like, is this.

[Claire Hoffman]

It wasn't that beautiful? I mean, yeah, like, we got there and we were still super poor and we ended up. I mean, my mom had gone to college and was getting her master's degree. My dad had gone to the University of Iowa Writers Workshop. Like, my grandfather was a scientist. Like, we weren't.

[Lola Blanc]

I was a legit writer. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Claire Hoffman]

But, but for the cocaine.

[Lola Blanc]

Right, right.

[Claire Hoffman]

But. But I mean, like, it was. I. I guess more I'm saying, like, my mom grew up middle class. Like, her dad worked at Princeton in a lab. My grandmother was a nurse. Like, like, we sort of came from a family of middle class professionals, I would say. And when we got there, I mean, my mom, like, there was no work. Like, she. I think she took a job, waitress at like a vegetarian cafe, you know what I mean? Like, and we moved really quickly, I mean, which we were really happy about, frankly, to Utopia Park. That's what the book is named after, which was a meditator only trailer park. So it wasn't. I mean, there was like a real rose colored glasses situation, you know, where like, I mean, Utopia park to me in some ways says it all right. Like it's like, oh, it's heaven. And by that we mean a trailer park. Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

Can you paint the picture of just like everyday life? Like, what are you doing in the trailer park day to day?

[Claire Hoffman]

Yeah, I mean, some of it was awesome because lots of kids live there from the school. And I could walk to my school. It was like a mile walk or maybe less from there. And like all my friends lived around me. Like trick or treating was awesome. You know, after school was great, but so the adults in our town and things are different now, like this was really kind of hardcore time for the TM movement. This doesn't really exist anymore. But the adults would meditate from like 6am to 8am and then 5pm to 7pm so my mom would be gone during that time and then come and take us to school. And I would be at school all day, you know, see my mom for like an hour in between before she would go meditate. And then, you know, everything was just really organized according to Maharishi's principles of living. So, you know, like when you wake up, when you eat, like what you eat, how you eat. I mean, literally there was a point where they were sort of prescribing how many chews to take of each bite of food.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Wow. And was it vegetarian? Was that the.

[Claire Hoffman]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And so was the restaurant your mom working at, was that owned by the group or.

[Claire Hoffman]

No. Okay. Yeah, it was like some hippie entrepreneur or something.

[Lola Blanc]

I never know how to refer to him.

[Claire Hoffman]

The.

[Lola Blanc]

The Maharishi. If I don't want to say the full name, what do I say?

[Claire Hoffman]

I just say Maharishi. But I. I've also been told that I say all Indian things. Like a South park character, which made me. Made me feel really seen. I was like, that's pretty much it. Like I grew up in Iowa acting like I was Hindu. Like, it's nailed it. Funny.

[Lola Blanc]

Maharishi.

[Claire Hoffman]

Yeah, just pretend you're Cartman.

[Lola Blanc]

To what extent were there actual interactions with him? Like, was he very involved in the community or.

[Claire Hoffman]

No, super wizard of Ozzy. Like, he always lived. When I was growing up, he was either in India or in Europe, and apparently there were, like, tax issues, so he never came. I mean, we also heard that his state of enlightenment made it hard to be around people. But wealthy donors would travel to go see him, so he would communicate with us. You would either get, like, trickle down knowledge. Like, if somebody rich who was like a donor to the school, they would, like, go visit him in India and come back and be like, all the math now needs to be in Sanskrit or something. And they'd be like, let's change everything, you know, I mean, they did that literally when I was in. In sixth grade, they switched to something called Vedic math, which, like, destroyed my brain forever. You can't do that in sixth grade.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, you can't.

[Claire Hoffman]

Yeah, my standardized test scores were amazing.

[Lola Blanc]

But.

[Claire Hoffman]

But otherwise, he would communicate with us through telecast. So, like, these big. For people to meditate together, they built these two giant golden dome buildings and that were covered, like, their big arched wooden ceilings. And then they had almost like bed foam with white sheets across the whole floor, which was, like, super fun. But that was for people to be levitating on. So they would have all the celebrations and ceremonies there. So, like, I mean, I think they each held a couple of thousand people. They had the men's dome and the women's dome, and they would put down a big screen, and he would, like, it was like early days of zoom or whatever, and he would talk to us, you know, for five minutes a few times a year.

[Lola Blanc]

Did you ever meet him in person?

[Claire Hoffman]

I didn't. He was apparently there. I saw him. I have, like, a shard of a memory of seeing him. He came to Fairfield once when I had first moved there, and I saw him up on stage. But, I mean, if you couldn't imagine the amount of video that I've watched of him. Right, right.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Can you say more about the levitating? Like, what is. What is the levitating?

[Claire Hoffman]

My kids are always like, say the same thing. They're like, can you say more about it? I'm like, what, do you. Just Google it, You guys? Leave me alone. You're so mean to me.

[Megan Elizabeth]

What is that? What's the levitating?

[Claire Hoffman]

So I think cities, like, the city techniques come from, like, some kind of ancient text, like the Yoga Patanjali text. So they're not specific to Maharishi. It's a book that you can buy in a bookstore. And I think the idea is that it promises you sort of superpowers. Like, they're forms of meditation that promise you extraordinary powers. And he kind of developed them for the western world in the 70s. And supposedly initially he was also teaching the power to walk through walls and invisibility. And there was a lot of imagine.

[Lola Blanc]

Sounds real. Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

You have to stop that teaching pretty quick.

[Lola Blanc]

Should I try, like right now?

[Claire Hoffman]

Yeah. People barely kind of lost their minds doing it. And maybe even like the CIA tried to infiltrate, which is really, really. Wow. Yeah. I mean, you feel like the late 70s, like people were just like down for more magic than they are now.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Totally.

[Claire Hoffman]

Yeah. It's. It's a. It's a meditation technique. Like you meditate for like an hour and then you start saying these other different mantras. And there's one, the levitation one, that's supposed to make you sort of lift off the air, but no one, as far as I know of, has actually maintained levitation.

[Lola Blanc]

It's a hop.

[Claire Hoffman]

It's a hop? Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

What does the hop look like?

[Claire Hoffman]

It looks like kind of butt hopping or like. Like a. Yeah, like it's a kind of. It's. I mean, some people achieve more grace and beauty in theory. You're supposed to be in lotus position, you know, with your like legs crossed and. Yeah, you kind of bounce along.

[Lola Blanc]

It reminds me of light as a featherstiff is a board, because it's like, yes, technically I'm in the air, but there is a physically feasible reason why I'm in the air, which is that there are fingers lifting me.

[Megan Elizabeth]

It just sounds like it would really.

[Claire Hoffman]

Hurt your back or your butt. Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Did people get injured like levitating, hopping?

[Claire Hoffman]

That's a great question. Not that I know of. That wasn't like a common complaint. I mean, there was. They had like that big old like yellow foam. People would kind of bounce as a child.

[Lola Blanc]

Were you participating in those, like, were you doing long meditations yourself?

[Claire Hoffman]

No. You could start to learn in high school, but like a lot of my friends weren't allowed to learn because they were deemed not ready or bad.

[Lola Blanc]

Interesting. So was it like relatively normal then in terms of like the structure of your day to day life?

[Claire Hoffman]

Levitating or to meditate?

[Lola Blanc]

I mean, like in. Cause in many cults the children are like. They either have to like be doing religion all day long or working, you know, like. But it sounds like you weren't necessarily participating that much in the practices themselves.

[Claire Hoffman]

Yeah, we meditated twice a day. Like the kids meditated twice a day. And you meditated. So until you're 10, you would do like a walking meditation. That was your age. So you would like walk around for seven minutes saying a mantra. And then once you turn 10, you get a seated meditation, which is the basic meditation that, like, all those college students learned in the 70s. Like, that was the kind of entry level TM. And it's like, what just to fast forward now, like, people learn through the David Lynch Foundation. Yep.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I was gonna say it's like, what I paid $500 to learn from a teacher I also dated. So not a lot of roller skating.

[Claire Hoffman]

$500 for. For. For my mantra.

[Lola Blanc]

How did you go from believing in this, like, magical thing where you're, like, saving the world basically, to having some more skepticism about it?

[Claire Hoffman]

Yeah, I mean, it kind of was like, this confluence of events. I mean, when I was either 11 or 12, my dad came back into our lives. He had done. He had gone through AA and gotten sober and had, you know, been trying to reconnect with us. And he moved to Iowa. He actually moved to Iowa City. So he didn't move to. I think he tried to move to Fairfield for, like, six days and kind of freaked out and had to move to Iowa City.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I heard that.

[Claire Hoffman]

Yeah. And so he started being part of our lives. And I think, you know, I mean, he's just was like a naturally, like, very funny, very cynical, just a kind of sophisticated person. And he would just make observations. I would say that that started to, like, stick. Stick with me. Anyway, I was 12, and I had this moment at a school assembly where this will definitely give you my exact age, but the head of the school and the university made this announcement that they had just torn the Berlin Wall down and that it was because our meditations have been so powerful over the last few weeks. And I was just like, that. That's not true. Like, my meditations. I've been reading Cosmopolitan inside my bedroom during the time I'm supposed to be. Supposed to be meditating. Like, that is just not a fact. Wow. That was. It was a real moment, actually. What's funny is, like, I've been at parties, like, big groups of kids that I grew up with. You know, like, when I was in my 20s, and there's, like, a number of people that. That school assemb. Like, the snapping of fingers. Yeah. There was just a handful of us that were like, no.

[Lola Blanc]

That is so interesting, because I would think that if I were in that position, I would want to believe it so badly, because it would. I would want to feel like I contributed something to the world.

[Claire Hoffman]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

I don't. I don't know if that would be an. An awakening point for my teenage Self.

[Claire Hoffman]

That's.

[Lola Blanc]

That's interesting.

[Claire Hoffman]

Yeah. I mean, this is why I say, like, there was a bunch of stuff. Stuff happening around the same time for me, you know, with my dad coming back and just, like, getting older. But it was just. I think it just registered suddenly as completely absurd. And that was like, this moment where the fabric just started to tear, you know, and it didn't, like, happen right away, but my brother was a couple years older than me, and he was super rebellious and, like, got into, like, smoking pot and skating. And, you know, my mom wasn't around a lot. Like, she was working all the time. First of all, because to afford, like, our private school tuition to go to the Marshall School of the Age of Enlightenment and to, like, afford to be able to go to the domes and to be able to afford, like, all the crazy supplements that you needed to do to achieve higher states of consciousness.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Oh, wow.

[Lola Blanc]

Did you have to buy them from them?

[Claire Hoffman]

Yes. Yeah. I mean, that's like. I just to, like, zoom out for a second. I feel like it's always interesting looking at religions where you're like, what's your. What's your bag? Like, what's your shadow? Is it like, sex? Is it, like, power? Is it violence? Or is it money? And we were definitely, like. It was a money thing, as you can tell by the deal you got.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, yeah, my. My. My deal. Yeah, exactly. My mantra. Deal.

[Claire Hoffman]

Yeah, yeah, it's money. That usually comes up.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, right.

[Megan Elizabeth]

What was the emotional response to being like, this is bullshit?

[Claire Hoffman]

I think I felt myself just retreat into myself more and become more interested in. In the outside world. And, I mean, I will say, like, TM wasn't like, a high control situation. You know, Like, I. How did I leave? Like, I got on a plane to go move in with my dad. And, like, no one tried to stop me, and no one's ever tried to stop me from saying anything. And, like, it's. It's. It's not. It's not like that.

[Lola Blanc]

Quick note for our listeners, like we have talked about in many previous episodes, different people can have a whole range of experiences in the same group depending on the context. We did actually interview Patrick Ryan and Joe Kelly, who can talk a little bit more about a different experience of tm.

[Claire Hoffman]

It was a very intensely devotional atmosphere, and people, you know, would pay a cost for not showing that devotion. You know, like, so there was a point where, just as an example, like, people were not being allowed to meditate in the domes that went to go see other Indian, like, teachers cheating Cheating. Exactly. Yeah. I moved in with my dad, so that was kind of easy. But I mean, it wasn't until, like, I mean, I was in college and I remember being like, wait, like, could I actually marry somebody who didn't do TM right? You know, like, could I? Like, I. There were a lot of ways that I was. Like, my brain had been fiddled with and my mom still lives there.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, really? Is it still tmi?

[Claire Hoffman]

It's super tmi. It's just not quite as vibrant or not as, like, big as it used to be. And Maharishi's been dead for, like, 15 years. So I think David lynch was a good thing for the TM movement in the sense that he sort of returned it back to the simple, like, just the meditation technique and less of the guru culture. So I'm assuming when you learned tm, like, you didn't really learn a lot about Maharishi.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Not at all. It was, it was very celebrity. David lynch says this is what keeps him creative and clear. Yeah, there, there wasn't, you know, threads back to, and there's whole communities that this is helping to support.

[Claire Hoffman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't. I, I, I still practice TM is the truth.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, I imagine so. It's very helpful, actually.

[Claire Hoffman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that wasn't. That's why I sort of always say it was a moment in time in terms of the 80s and the 90s. It was just like it was when Maharishi was alive and the people who had first sort of formed his movement, their level of devotion and sense of his importance was all encompassing.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I bet the Beatles had a lot to do with that, too. Just like, it was so cool.

[Claire Hoffman]

Yeah, yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

He was an icon. Hanging out with icons.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, that's really cool. Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

Speaking of him, Maharishi, how was he viewed in the community? And then I would also like to connect that to how it informed your next book.

[Claire Hoffman]

Great. Yeah. I mean, he was. To me, I mean, I'll just speak from my experience, he was like an omnipresent God. Like, I believe that he had the ability to know my thoughts and feelings and, you know, know if I had been meditating regularly or not. Although that obviously faded as I got more into, like, magazines.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Cosmo really saved both of our lives, actually. Were you as Cosmo Girl, too? It really helped me deconstruct.

[Claire Hoffman]

I mean, it. I. I became a lady because it was like, oh, this is my other way of being. Like, I could go to cocktail parties.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And, like, day to night, day to night.

[Lola Blanc]

So you're allowed to read Cosmo because there is in there.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I got a Cosmo subscription.

[Lola Blanc]

Your parents would say, like, 10 tips to blow.

[Megan Elizabeth]

They, like, didn't look at it.

[Claire Hoffman]

Wow.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I was like, here's my Cosmo. I got 17. I got.

[Lola Blanc]

I got 17.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I got Cosmo.

[Lola Blanc]

But I. Yeah, I don't think I was allowed. I'm surprised you were allowed.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, we got, like, a thing where you got, like, 18 magazines, and I just chose a lot of them, and they just didn't even look at.

[Lola Blanc]

Magazine descriptions were.

[Megan Elizabeth]

For a cult kid in those, like, decades. I don't know where I would be without magazines. And to be fair, very brainwashed in many different directions where I'm like, 20 ways to give him an orgasm. Like, when I need different things in my brain.

[Lola Blanc]

As skinny as humanly possible. Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

So.

[Claire Hoffman]

But yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, interesting.

[Claire Hoffman]

You know, everybody's off ramp. Looks different. You know, that's what. That's what it looks. I do remember. I remember that. I, like, learned how to. You're supposed to answer the phone sounding like you just finished having sex.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Stop it.

[Claire Hoffman]

What? Hello? Hello.

[Lola Blanc]

Wait, this is from Cosmo. Not from so long.

[Claire Hoffman]

No, no, that's from Cosmo. Oh, my God.

[Lola Blanc]

Hilarious. Do you still do that? I assume.

[Claire Hoffman]

I mean, I try not to, but sometimes it just comes to me. Okay, so he's like.

[Lola Blanc]

He's like a God. And you. I imag in this, like, slow awakening that you were having, started to kind of see that more for what it was. Can you talk about that and how that evolved over the years for you?

[Claire Hoffman]

Yeah, I'll try and condense this, because it really was a long process. But, like, so, for example, you know, when we had birthday parties at school or celebrations, there would be, like, always, like, these giant cakes, and they would cut them, and they'd take the first slice of cake and put it in front of Mari. She's photographed.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Oh, wow.

[Claire Hoffman]

I think there was a point where I was like, that's lame. You know, Like, I don't think that's cool. I don't like that. And that feeling just grew. That's basically my. My personality and view of life. But, yeah, over time, I just started, like, as I was a teenager, I was, like, just really rebellious and exploring other ways of being and drinking and doing drugs and whatever. And I left for college, and I wrote Greetings from Utopia Park. It came out in 2016. And I would say during the reporting of that, I did start to get a more nuanced view of him. I would say of, like, just really understanding him as a person instead of this, like, figure, you know, who was just controlling everything from afar. That has changed my perspective on so many things where, you know, I would read. I remember reading this book by this woman who said she had an affair with him, and she talks about their, like, pillow chats together, and he's talking about his ambitions and, like, you know, his interest in banking and politics. And it just kind of made me be like, oh, wow. Like, he's just like a man.

[Megan Elizabeth]

That's so surreal. Yeah.

[Claire Hoffman]

Yeah. Like, I think he was trying to have her go on birth control. And, like, truly, I grew up with him as, like, a deity who was, like, sexless and ageless and, you know, enlightened. But I also kind of wondered as I got older and doing that book, like, what it cost him, you know, like, what does it mean that he never came? Like, did it feel terrible to be around us? You know, like, did it feel incredibly isolating?

[Lola Blanc]

You have this very curious perspective on almost, like, the characters that are these figures, the complexity, and not just, like, this sort of evil person who's a leader. And I think that's really interesting.

[Claire Hoffman]

I should just say, like, he, like, never did anything to my family that, like, I hold against him. So it's. It's. I can kind of do that empathy exercise. But I feel like you guys have a lot of people who come on your show who are, like, from totally different things. So I'm not saying, like, everybody should be extended that thought exercise, but for me, it was. It was kind of liberating in a way of, like, oh, he's. He's a regular person who was X age from this province. And, like, did it feel awesome and powerful to be living in, like, a little room in Holland where you were calling all the shots, or did it feel, like, sad? And so that perspective informed my next book somewhat.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah. So I guess that's a good place to transition into this next book that you've written, which is a biography called Sister the Miraculous Life and Mysterious Disappearance of Amy Semple McPherson. So come back next week for part two. We have more to talk about. And that concludes part one with Claire Hoffman. Megan?

[Claire Hoffman]

Yes.

[Lola Blanc]

Would you join tm?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yes. You literally already have already joined it.

[Lola Blanc]

Would you join deeper?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yes, absolutely.

[Lola Blanc]

And are you going to. Maybe you do have the money to.

[Megan Elizabeth]

No.

[Lola Blanc]

Okay. Important, Important distinction.

[Megan Elizabeth]

No, but moving to Iowa, living on a commune and just meditating, that sounds so fun. I went on a meditation retreat to France for graduate school where we were silent for, like 10 days. I mean, for hours a day. We. We could talk at dinner and stuff. It was like the best week of my life. Best 10 days of my life. When I got back to the States, I was having crazy auditory hallucinations.

[Lola Blanc]

That's actually what I was gonna ask. Did you hallucinate when you were. Yeah, when you were there, you were.

[Megan Elizabeth]

No. Once I got back, I, like, took a nap and I woke up and it sounded like I had 5 billion children in my chest screaming.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, that happens to me sometimes when I'm half asleep. That it actually does. Like, my sleep paralysis is. Well, I keep my eyes closed because I'm too scared of demons. Not literal demons, but seeing a demonish figure. But what happens to me when I get sleep paralysis is I hear it's so scary.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And we did an episode with a guy who talked about how meditation just increases the likelihood of those auditory.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, hallucinations. We talk about that with Nitai. Joseph is his name.

[Claire Hoffman]

Yes.

[Lola Blanc]

Wonderful guest.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Love, Nitai.

[Lola Blanc]

That was a few years ago now. Wow, time flies.

[Megan Elizabeth]

It really does. Especially when you're not meditating. So, hey, we're so glad you spent this episode with us. We can't wait to talk to you and her next week. And as always, remember to follow your gut. Watch out for red flags and never, ever trust me.

[Claire Hoffman]

Bye.

[Lola Blanc]

This has been an exactly right production, hosted by me, Lola Blanc and me, Megan Elizabeth.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Our senior producer is Ji Ha Lee.

[Lola Blanc]

This episode was mixed by John Bradley.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain and our guest booker is Patrick Kutner.

[Lola Blanc]

Our theme song was composed by Holly Amber Church.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Trust Me is executive produced by Karen Kilgareth, Georgia Hartstark and Danielle Kramer.

[Lola Blanc]

You can find us on Instagram, Instagram, ustmepodcast or on TikTok@trustmecultpodcast.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Got your own story about cults, extreme belief or manipulation?

[Lola Blanc]

Shoot us an [e-mail] Listen to Trust Me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Death is coming for our family.

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