Dan Olson, Part 2 - Charismatic Leaders and the Cult of Crypto

Summary

Trust Me: Cults, Extreme Belief, and Manipulation

Episode: Dan Olson, Part 2 — Charismatic Leaders and the Cult of Crypto

Release Date: March 25, 2026
Hosts: Lola Blanc & Megan Elizabeth
Guest: Dan Olson (Folding Ideas, YouTube)

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Episode Overview

This episode continues the conversation with Dan Olson, creator of Folding Ideas, delving deep into the world of cryptocurrency, NFTs, and their astonishing parallels to cult behavior. The discussion explores how charismatic leaders manipulate crypto bubbles, the psychological mechanisms at play, the stigma and shame among those who've lost out, and the intricate blend of American "prosperity gospel" and tech utopianism that fuels these financial subcultures.

Olson and the hosts dissect the MLM-like (multi-level marketing) dynamics of crypto spaces and examine why so many people — especially men — are reluctant to speak up after becoming victims. With engaging stories, sociological insights, and direct analogies to other cultic communities, this episode showcases how smart, well-intentioned individuals can fall for high-tech delusions, and what to watch for to avoid similar manipulation.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Charisma, Tastemakers & The Power of "Riz"

• [19:37] – [20:22]:
  • Dan Olson: Explains that in the crypto/NFT world, "contrarians" can thrive if they have enough charisma. They become influential tastemakers, guiding community opinion by redirecting hype from one coin or project to another.
    • QUOTE: "If you have the charisma, if you got Riz, then you can be the contrarian… You can be a contrarian in the community and be a tastemaker..." – Dan Olson, [19:37]
  • Dissent rarely leads to honest critique; it's about manipulating hype and steering attention toward new speculative schemes.
  • The cycle perpetuates itself through leaders’ confidence and community faith, emulating classic cult dynamics.

2. Grifter Playbook: Blame the Follower

• [21:19] – [23:20]:
  • Dan Olson: Details the psychological maneuver where scam leaders blame followers for failed predictions or investments, spinning a narrative that the community "didn't believe hard enough" or failed to spot red flags.
    • QUOTE: "The ultimate way that most grifters and con men redirect people for failed prophecies is just making it your fault for believing wrong or… some unfalsifiable element of your behavior that altered the course of history..." – Dan Olson, [21:39]

3. No Substantial Difference Between "Real" and Scam Cryptos

• [24:10] – [25:25]:
  • Olson: After infiltrating countless scam NFT/crypto communities, he asserts that there's "no difference" between the supposed "legitimate" and outright scam projects. The same narratives, randomized art, hype cycles, and structures persist across both.
    • QUOTE: "There's no difference between them… the difference between what was that one called Camel Rider Millionaire Club and Bored Ape Yacht Club was nothing. It was just one was successful and one wasn't." – Dan Olson, [24:28]

4. Identity, Community & the Appeal of Crypto

• [39:25] – [41:14]:
  • Olson: The pull into crypto is largely about group belonging, identity, and a narrative that justifies greed as virtue or destiny. The community encourages turning everyone into shills/scammers themselves.
    • QUOTE: "It is an environment that trains its participants to themselves become scammers." – Dan Olson, [41:14]

5. The American Prosperity Gospel & Cultural Pressures

• [41:19] – [41:44]:
  • Hosts: Discuss how American cultural mythology ("anyone can be rich, and should be rich") sets the perfect backdrop for the lure of crypto, despite the overwhelming odds against participants.
    • Lola: "The air we're living and breathing is giving us this messaging — get rich and you deserve to be, and there's something wrong with you if you're not."
    • Crypto becomes just another extension of the "temporarily embarrassed millionaire" mindset.

6. MLM (Multi-Level Marketing) Parallels

• [31:13] – [32:36]:
  • Hosts and Olson: Draw direct parallels between MLMs and crypto, noting both exploit dreams of wealth, employ complex or obfuscated systems, and quietly funnel wealth upwards.
    • Dan Olson: Explains that in crypto spaces, there's intentional gatekeeping and complexity to create an exclusive, "high IQ" club atmosphere, baking trust into the community and disguising exploitation.

7. Shame, Masculinity, and the Hidden Victims

• [33:06] – [34:29]:
  • Olson: Notes the acute shame men experience when they lose money in crypto, contributing to the lack of open discussion and making it seem like women are the primary victims of scams (since they're more willing to share their experiences).
    • QUOTE: "There is a shame element to failure that makes it a lot more common for people who fail out to just like, bury it." – Dan Olson, [33:11]

8. The Mechanics of Crypto Scams — The "Squid Coin" Example

• [36:07] – [39:07]:
  • A breakdown of the infamous Squid Coin scam, where everyone who invested lost everything because the coin could not be sold — yet the narrative convinced even skeptics to try and "outsmart" the system.
    • QUOTE: "The coin cannot be sold… so you have this wave of people convinced they're smarter than the scam and then you can't check out." – Dan Olson, [38:58]

9. Financial Risk — Luck Over Expertise

• [34:40] – [35:26]:
  • The majority of participants will lose: "Objectively, the vast majority of participants in crypto are just not winning because it's not a game that very many people can win. It essentially comes down to the luck of… did you cash out when you were actually in the green?" – Dan Olson, [34:40]

10. Classic Cult Rituals in Digital Form

• [13:56]:
  • The hosts draw parallels between rituals, collective experiences (like raves or religious ceremonies), and online phenomena like crypto, highlighting how collective emotional synchrony strengthens group bonds.

---

Notable & Memorable Quotes

• On Charisma in Crypto:
  "If you have the charisma, if you got Riz, then you can be the contrarian… you can be a tastemaker..."
  — Dan Olson, [19:37]

• On Why Crypto Scams Blame Victims:
  "The ultimate way that most grifters and con men redirect people for failed prophecies is just making it your fault for believing wrong..."
  — Dan Olson, [21:39]

• On Why "Legit" and Scam Cryptos Are Alike:
  "There's no difference between them... It was just one was successful and one wasn't."
  — Dan Olson, [24:28]

• On Collective Effervescence:
  "Collective rituals, irrespective of their emotional content ... empower the individual, reinforce social ties, and motivate moral commitment to groups, to leaders and to values."
  — Lola Blanc, summarizing Durkheim, [10:00-11:50]

• On Masculinity and Shame:
  "There is a shame element to failure that makes it a lot more common for people who fail out to just like, bury it."
  — Dan Olson, [33:11]

• On Identity and Greed:
  "There are people who have convinced themselves that the solution to a corrupt world is to have the most avarice, to just to be the most acquisitive, to be the greediest..."
  — Dan Olson, [40:10]

• On Warning Signs:
  "If anyone tells you you need to jump on something before it's too late, they're wrong... If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is."
  — Dan Olson, [51:16]

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Charisma & Tastemakers: [19:37] – [20:22]
• Blame & Grifter Playbook: [21:19] – [23:20]
• No Difference between Scam & Real Crypto: [24:28] – [25:25]
• Identity & Belonging in Crypto: [39:25] – [41:14]
• US Cultural Influences: [41:19] – [41:44]
• MLM Comparisons & Gatekeeping: [31:13] – [32:36]
• Masculinity & Shame: [33:06] – [34:29]
• Squid Coin Scam Mechanics: [36:07] – [39:07]
• Risk, Luck, and Losing: [34:40] – [35:26]
• Collective Effervescence/Group Rituals: [10:00-13:20]
• Practical Advice (Red Flags): [51:16]
• Final Thoughts & Where to Find Dan Olson: [57:01]

---

Episode Highlights & Memorable Moments

• "Cultiest Thing of the Week": Lola introduces the concept of "collective effervescence" and its role in groupthink, while Megan discusses a clandestine spiritual group in Italy. ([04:00] – [13:20])
• Squid Coin Tragedy: A vivid explanation of how everyone thought they could outwit the scam, only to find the coin was unsellable. ([36:07] – [39:07])
• Bitcoin Pizza Myth: The real backstory of the “guy who bought pizza for 10,000 bitcoins.” ([42:14] – [43:50])
• On Gendered Narratives: Crypto as “penny stocks for gamers,” and how the culture borrows from both finance and gaming machismo. ([48:27] – [49:31])
• Cat Cameo: Dan’s cat briefly steals the scene. ([54:29])
• Dan’s Healthy Skepticism Tips: “If someone says you must do it now, it’s gambling — not investing.” ([51:16])

---

Practical Takeaways & Advice

• Beware Exclusivity: If a financial product or community feels exclusive, requiring "special knowledge" or a certain IQ, it's often a red flag for exploitation.
• Question Urgency: Don't trust investment advice that demands immediate action. “If it’s the future, there’s no such thing as too late.”
• Recognize Shame as Manipulation: Cultural shame, especially among men in these spaces, protects scam leaders and hinders open discussion and recovery.
• Understand the Structure: Whether it’s MLMs or crypto, the systems are designed so that nearly everyone but a tiny minority loses.
• Shared Rituals & Identity: The sense of belonging can blind participants to risk and foster manipulation.

---

Where to Learn More

• Dan Olson / Folding Ideas:
  • YouTube: Folding Ideas
  • Bluesky: @oldablehuman
• Hosts:
  • Instagram: @TrustMePodcast
  • TikTok: @TrustMeCultPodcast

---

Closing

Packed with dark humor, personal admissions, and compassion, this episode bridges the gap between internet finance bubbles and classic cult psychology. Olson demystifies the jargon and reveals the self-justifying, reality-bending dynamics of online financial manipulation. As always, the hosts encourage transparency, critical thinking, and destigmatizing conversations about being conned or manipulated.

---

Final words:
"If anyone tells you you need to jump on something before it's too late, they're wrong... If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is."
— Dan Olson

---

Listener challenge:
If you’ve been scammed or burned by crypto and want to share your story to help others, reach out to the Trust Me podcast!

Transcript

[Lola Blanc]

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[Dan Olson]

Trust me. Do you trust me?

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Would I ever lead you astray?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Trust me.

[Dan Olson]

This is the truth. Only truth.

[Lola Blanc]

If anybody ever tells you to just trust them, don't. Welcome to Trust Me, the podcast about cult extreme belief and manipulation from two girls who've been scammed, who've actually experienced it. I'm Lola Blanc.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And I'm Megan Elizabeth.

[Lola Blanc]

I was a little redundant there, but that's okay. In part two with our guest Dan Olson this week, who is the creator and host of YouTube channel Folding Ideas, we are going to continue our conversation on cryptocurrency and NFTs. He is going to tell us about how these bubbles are driven primarily by charismatic leaders, why success rates of investment into crypto and NFTs are likely similar to MLMs. In other words, the vast majority of investors do not win big. And why there's a lot of shame around having lost money in this arena. But we think more men should come forward with their stories.

[Megan Elizabeth]

He'll explain why there's no inherent difference between scam cryptocurrencies and so called real cryptocurrencies since all are rooted in speculation and faith where the line is between greed and just being a victim of American prosperity gospel. And what to look out for to prevent yourself from getting scammed like we have been so many times.

[Lola Blanc]

It makes it sound like we're just getting scammed nonstop. I mean, maybe before we talk to Dan more about this man tech money world. Megan, can you tell me your cultiest thing this week?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, it's one that I might join.

[Lola Blanc]

Go on.

[Megan Elizabeth]

It's a high controlled spiritual movement.

[Lola Blanc]

So.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Okay.

[Lola Blanc]

I mean, sounds culty, but. Okay.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And it's in. It's in Italy. It's called Da Menhore.

[Lola Blanc]

Okay. It sounds like you're saying the manhor, but you are.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I'm just trying to speak Italian.

[Lola Blanc]

Damanhur. Damanhur. D A M A N H U r. Yeah, Damanhur.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Okay. And it was started by a man named Alberto Ariati.

[Lola Blanc]

Really good. Wow.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Thank you.

[Lola Blanc]

Are you Italian?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. Here's a few things I like about the spiritual movement. Underground tunnels.

[Lola Blanc]

Okay, tell me more.

[Megan Elizabeth]

The whole thing's underground.

[Lola Blanc]

The whole thing's underground?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. There's like a giant temple underground and on their website, my. My favorite thing about it is also its first red flag is that everywhere on its website it's like called by some the eighth wonder of the world.

[Lola Blanc]

Okay.

[Megan Elizabeth]

The underground temple is so giant Wait,

[Lola Blanc]

how old is it?

[Megan Elizabeth]

It was built in the 70s.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And you, like, weren't allowed to build the tunnel, and so they used to pretend they were having parties to build the tunnel. So.

[Lola Blanc]

The legal underground tunnel.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. So the townspeople were, like, distracted. And then I think the police. This is hearsay. Please, I'm too busy to be sued. But I think the police were like, you gotta destroy the tunnel. And then they went and looked at it and were like, oh, it's so pretty. And it is. You have to go look at it.

[Lola Blanc]

It's crazy. She showed me pictures, and it is really beautiful.

[Megan Elizabeth]

It's crazy. So calling yourself the eighth wonder of the world, like, you're kind of already serving Keith Renery.

[Lola Blanc]

But what if I'm the eighth one of the world?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. I mean, but see, that's what I'm saying. It's already Keith Rener. Like, I'm the. You know how he was Australia's Guinness Book of World Record, smartest man, like, he.

[Lola Blanc]

In the world. Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

He just, like, made a category for himself. Like, you can't really do that. You know, Nobody else is calling them that. But one of the things I really like about it is that. Well, number one, it's in northern Italy. Number two, which is beautiful. And number two, it's a lot about time travel and time jumping.

[Lola Blanc]

Tell me more.

[Megan Elizabeth]

There's the school of meditation. There's these pods that you sit in that bring you through time, literally, as a time traveler, but, like, in your mind. Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

Okay, cool.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

I mean, sign me up.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Sign me up. But then, of course, the other shoe drops, and it's like, if you aren't doing what they say, they have a. You have to work really hard.

[Lola Blanc]

Of course you do.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. And if you don't do what they say, they're like, you. You're excluded. You can't come to church. And if you can't go to normal church, it's.

[Lola Blanc]

Who.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Who gives a shit? But if you can't go to time travel church. Oh, my God, that's mean.

[Lola Blanc]

And then is the time travel. Like, do you have to time? Like, is it. What is their purpose of the time travel?

[Megan Elizabeth]

I think they're like, they're. They're trying to figure out some timeline jumping that'll kind of help bring about world peace. I'm making that up.

[Lola Blanc]

Okay.

[Megan Elizabeth]

The. The mission.

[Lola Blanc]

But I believed you.

[Megan Elizabeth]

The mission remains unclear to me. Again, they're very welcoming. A lot of YouTubers go and. Well, at least I saw a few go and, like, Tour it. And it's very impressive. It's very beautiful. And they're like, so kind and welcoming and normal seeming that you're just like, yeah, I. Let's just do that. Grow your own food.

[Lola Blanc]

Well, they have to. I mean.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

They're not going to attract people if they're not friendly.

[Megan Elizabeth]

So then, you know, I went online and read people who had bad experience, sexual coercion, being coerced into sexual relationships. The leader was very angry.

[Lola Blanc]

Okay.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Being separated from your children.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, my God. Why do they always do that?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, allegedly.

[Lola Blanc]

Okay.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And, you know, just a lot of. A lot of things that. Like, why. Why can't it just be the underground temples and the gold mirrors and the secret rituals and the spiritual technology and a community currency? There's, like, no money. Why. Why does it have to be always about somebody wanting to have sex? Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

I mean, I think sometimes it's not. Sometimes people are just going to church, but when it's like. Seems so over the top and special. And it was made in the 70s when everyone was on LSD. Like, I don't know.

[Megan Elizabeth]

One of the places is called the hall of Mirrors. And it's so dope. Cool. I know. I know. We can't talk about it anymore because, like, we're all gonna go join it.

[Lola Blanc]

I mean, we should visit it for sure.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Absolutely. We should visit it.

[Lola Blanc]

Whoever wants to pay for that trip, hit us up.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And whoever wants to pay for the cult interventionist I'm going to need in order to leave, let us know.

[Lola Blanc]

We'll hit up some of our previous guests.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yes, Lola, what's your cultiest thing of the week? I.

[Lola Blanc]

I don't know why I'm using that tone. I stumbled upon a term that I. I don't think I knew. Like, I'm like, if we talked about it, it was years ago and I forgot which is this term is collective effervescence.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Anything?

[Lola Blanc]

No. All right. It's a sociological concept coined by a guy named Emile Durkheim. It describes something we talk about a lot, which is. I'm reading the Wikipedia right now. It's when a community or society come together and simultaneously communicate the same thought or participate in the same action. And such events cause the. This collective effervescence, which is basically just like a shared peak experience or like a sense of awe.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Well, I immediately thought concert rave, 100%.

[Lola Blanc]

And religious rituals, it's just like any ritual where people are doing the same thing together and experience, like a heightened emotional state. Can't believe I didn't Know the term and we talk about that like every other episode, basically. But then I was just reading a little bit more about it and I. I just think it's super interesting. Um, I'm now gonna read an excerpt from a study called perceived emotional synchrony. I didn't even know there was a word synchrony. Synchrony in collective. I thought it was synchronicity, but that's a different thing. This is a different word. Perceived emotional synchrony in collective gatherings. Validation of a short scale and proposition of an integrative measure. Okay, this is in Frontiers. Okay. At the end. Basically skipping to the end here it says, in sum, rituals reinforce emotions, particularly positive collective emotions such as awe, moral inspiration and hope through pes. Perceived emotional synchrony. And this is how they strengthen social cohesion and increase well being. The collective rituals have social consequences in the relations between nations and social groups. National identities need patriotic rituals to share a sense of pertinence and sacred values and to perpetuate intergroup conflicts, as shown in this Chilean ritual study that they were talking about here. In sum, collective rituals, irrespective of their emotional content. It could be joyful feasts, sad funerals, or patriotic rituals empower the individual, reinforce social ties, and motivate moral commitment to groups, to leaders and to values. Which is just a sociology way of saying that when you have a peak experience with your cult or your group or your nation or whatever the fuck it is, it's gonna connect you more deeply with that thing.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, I think what comes to mind immediately is like Christian nationalism. I kind of deconstructed that live on the podcast. I think over a period of time where I was like, I don't know, the Pledge of Allegiance when I was younger, standing up and being like, under God, even though I don't technically believe that that is an old man in the sky. It just feels. It felt comforting.

[Lola Blanc]

Yes, to me.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Right. And then you can see how like, oh, actually when all these nations are saying these things and they're all different gods, it can lead to quite a lot.

[Lola Blanc]

War, you might say.

[Megan Elizabeth]

War, you might say. But it did bring me comfort. And that's what first came to my mind. Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

And I think like in any group, whenever there is a goal that we're going after, like war, for example, the way to get people on board with it is to have these intense rituals and to make it feel really infused with meaning and purpose and this like shared collective identity. And yeah, it's just interesting thing to be aware of in general, like because when we do have those experiences, whether it is at a concert or a church or at a political rally or whatever, like that thing is going to make us feel more deeply connected to whatever it is. And that can be good. And that can be used, you know, as like this wonderful way to connect with people or it can be used to manipulate us. So, you know, that's my cultigas thing.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Well, it does kind of go into what we talk about with Dan today.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Do you want to dart on? I was going to say, do you want to make the connection.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, yes.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Cut that part out.

[Lola Blanc]

I liked it. Yeah. We will talk a little bit about this American idea of bootstrapping yourself and you're gonna be a billionaire. And maybe some of the stuff we talk about today falls under the category of a shared ritual, but just like on the Internet, crypto ritual.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Get on in here and listen.

[Lola Blanc]

Okay. Yeah.

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Yes.

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[Megan Elizabeth]

Okay, let's say that I'm a contrarian, but I'm in this community and I start talking a little bit of shit on it. Right. Would my fellow crypto nft. Is it kind of a Scientology thing where they would rat me out? Are we?

[Dan Olson]

If you have the charisma, if you got Riz, then you can be the contrarian.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Dan Olson]

Like you can be a tastemaker, you can be a contrarian in the community and be a tastemaker, but that means that you're some, like you're almost certainly engaging in, oh well, this thing, this thing over here, it's crap, it's going to zero. And people who are holding it are like, delulu, what you need to get in on is Terra Terra and ftx, those are the ones that are gonna go to the moon.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Right?

[Dan Olson]

Right. Is like you can be a contrarian, but it's almost always man, like, it almost always shows up as like redirection and tastemaking.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Got you.

[Lola Blanc]

So this speaks to the point Megan was making earlier, which like, how much of this nebulous intangible market is driven just by these like charismatic individuals who are kind of seem confident in tell

[Dan Olson]

what to do, almost all of it.

[Megan Elizabeth]

So they are the tarot readers that are like, I mean, you have to be pretty. I'm trying to choose my words wisely. Like let's say you're a psychic, quote unquote, and you're like, you're gonna have a kid next year. Like, you gotta be a little bit cuckoo to tell someone that. Because when it doesn't happen, or in this case when your money doesn't come to fruition, or maybe even the whole thing falls apart, I imagine there's a lot of cognitive dissonance in that for people.

[Dan Olson]

Oh yeah. But the way to navigate through that on behalf of the tastemakers, you know, that's a very well trod path. We've had grifters and con men doing that for centuries. Which is. Well, did you believe correctly?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Shit.

[Lola Blanc]

Correct. Yes, yes, damn it. Wait, say more about that. Because. Yeah, say more about that.

[Dan Olson]

The ultimate way that most grifters and con men redirect people for failed prophecies is just making it your fault for believing wrong or pointing to some nebulous thing, some unfalsifiable element of your behavior that altered the course of history and

[Lola Blanc]

a leader in this space, what might be something they would point to that's your fault. Just like, because you didn't have enough

[Dan Olson]

faith in it and you weren't paying enough attention. Oh, too many of you, paper hands, too many of you, like, you didn't believe hard enough. You know, the community collectively lost faith in the thing and that's why it collapsed. Or you point to something like, well, sure, that one went poorly, but that specific, you know, you didn't see the warning signs that that guy was actually a bad actor. That guy was a grifter.

[Lola Blanc]

Right?

[Dan Olson]

That guy was like, he was a plant. He was actually a, like, you know, you get all of these narratives that get spun up and they're all very insubstantial, they're very, very cyclical. Most of them don't stick. It's just like everything gets spit out until sort of a consensus narrative ends up forming and a lot of it just gets memory hold. So, you know, the, the whole Terra collapse was just like, well, you should have known that that guy was incompetent. Clearly based off. If you had read the white paper and audited the way that it was working, you would have seen that it was going to like, that it was going to go to zero. You should have audited it harder, bro.

[Lola Blanc]

Right, yeah.

[Dan Olson]

So like you get that narrative in ftx. It was. Well, clearly if you were paying attention, you would have noticed that like Sam Bankman Fried wasn't up to, was up to no good. In fact, I think he's actually an Obama plant.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh my God.

[Dan Olson]

I think he's a, I think he's a bad actor. That the man sort of like they, they made him go into all of this and like set this up in order to discredit crypto.

[Lola Blanc]

Of course you kind of did this thing that you talk about where you joined like every scam crypto or nft, like chat that arose.

[Dan Olson]

I am still sorting through the consequences of that decision.

[Lola Blanc]

And like, and the point that you Made, which I'll just have you say yourself, but was that there? You know, in theory these are like these scammy temu versions of Party 8 Billionaire Club or whatever. It's like these random ass scam nft things. Except that what's the difference between those and the ones that were successful? Please.

[Dan Olson]

Nothing. There's no difference between them, they, they. It is the same narrative, it is the same foundation, it is the same. We have algorithmically generated 10,000 JPEGs combining random aspects of, you know, along a bog standard rarity distribution curve that we just took from Magic the Gathering. And the core of it was that I went through all of these, all of these discords and I read just days and days and days worth of communication between people and dug into all of these different projects and you know, the difference between what was that one called Camel Rider Millionaire Club and Bored Ape Yacht Club was nothing. It was just one was successful and one wasn't right.

[Lola Blanc]

And it seems like maybe the difference in the ones that were successful were this thing where they had someone leading it that people trusted and believed in.

[Dan Olson]

They. They either had a charismatic leader or they had art. That was the thing I will give Bored Ape Yacht Club is that while the characters are repulsive, they are also instantly identifiable and they do have a sort of like gross charisma to them in a, like in. In a sort of car crash, I can't look away sort of way. Like I, I do comprehend why people found Bored Apes compelling artistically, even if it is like not good, right?

[Lola Blanc]

Wait, did I confuse two different. Is there?

[Dan Olson]

You did.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I did.

[Dan Olson]

But I don't blame you because Party Ape Billionaire Club is a real thing. It is a Bored Ape knockoff. Looks very similar.

[Lola Blanc]

And you know, Jiha, can you use me saying Bored Ape Yacht Club instead of Party Ape a billionaire girl?

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[Jake Ambetta]

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[Malcolm Gladwell]

Isn't it a perfect problem for IBM because you kind of need to have a legacy of building stuff, building actual physical machines.

[Jake Ambetta]

Yeah, it's why I came to IBM. I wanted the experience, the culture of building hard things that others have not done before.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Where do you imagine we are in the timeline of this technology? There will come a point when it will mature, right?

[Jake Ambetta]

Yeah.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

My cell phone is a mature technology at this point. How far are we from that point

[Jake Ambetta]

with Quantum, by 2029 we'll build the first fault tolerant Quantum computer that is one that can run a very, very large, large problem.

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To learn how IBM is building the future of computing, visit IBM.com quantum

[Megan Elizabeth]

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[Lola Blanc]

The MLM comparison. Yeah, and first of all, I take issue speaking of like gendered differences. Like we talk about MLMs like they're cults. I don't think we spend nearly enough time Talking about like NFTs and crypto stuff like they're cults in the same way. It's the same fucking thing. It's the same dream, it's the same.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Well, I mean one of the things that we haven't touched on yet, but that makes it so important is that they've made it so over complicated that the layperson has no idea what you're talking about. So unlike in MLM where it's like Mary Kay, I get it. This is so complicated that it sounds smart even to smart people.

[Lola Blanc]

Correct?

[Dan Olson]

Yeah, it's obfuscated and so well, and that's constructed in part because one, it is non trivial to, to navigate how to get into it. And that serves a narrative of like, well, this is an exclusive club. You gotta be, you gotta be a certain IQ to get in this door. Which then of course me like, which then of course naturally feeds into the next narrative down the road of like, well, we got through the door so we're clearly, all high IQ individuals. Would this be a scam if we were all high IQ individuals?

[Megan Elizabeth]

No.

[Dan Olson]

And it's like. Which is then used to build trust, which is then used to et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

[Lola Blanc]

Right. I can't remember the exact statistic that we've talked about on the show with MLM experts, but the vast, vast, vast majority of MLM participants do not even break even and garage certified. They look at, you know, this very, very minuscule amount of people who seem to be making it and like, incredibly wealthy and believe that they're going to get to that point. Are there stats on crypto NFTs like, what the difference is?

[Dan Olson]

Not really. Mostly because they're more difficult to track.

[Lola Blanc]

Right.

[Dan Olson]

Like, it is more opaque. And there is due to the fact that it is a very macho endeavor. There is a shame element to failure that makes it a lot more common for people who fail out to just like, bury it.

[Lola Blanc]

And that's why we don't get to talk to enough men who've experienced stuff like this, which I feel like makes it seem like women are the only ones who fall for scams and cults because we are more willing to talk about it and have those conversations. And I really wish that there were a culture shift around that and some of the stigma would be removed because it happened to so many people.

[Dan Olson]

Yeah. And then there's also the, like, the ephemeral nature of the tokens that are being traded. Right. That a lot of these guys who have, like, in theory, like, they've lost tremendous amounts of money doing this stuff. What they've actually lost is all paper wealth. Right. They mined Bitcoin 15 years ago and then used that to buy Ethereum and then used that to buy a bored ape. And the bored ape price crashed. And so their paper wealth has like, it's like, oh, I've lost millions of dollars. But it, it has always existed in this crypto ecosystem.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Right, Right.

[Lola Blanc]

But we know generally speaking that most people aren't making. Most people are not getting rich.

[Megan Elizabeth]

No, no, no.

[Dan Olson]

Objectively, the vast majority of participants in crypto are just not winning because it's not a game that very many people can win. It essentially comes down to the luck of like, you know, did you, did you time things right and did you cash out like, when you were actually in the green? That's the big thing is a lot of people, they diamond hands themselves back down into the red or back down to break even. Then the other factor in why we don't have good stats is also a lot of this stuff is just kind of like so new that there's not a foundation of data to look at. You know, most of the studies about MLMs are able to go all the way back to like, you know, the 60s and 70s, and a lot of

[Megan Elizabeth]

people probably haven't even processed what's happened to them yet.

[Lola Blanc]

Totally.

[Megan Elizabeth]

A lot of people might not have even realized it yet. Yeah, you know.

[Dan Olson]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

So if any men are listening who had participated in a crypto scam, even if you feel a little embarrassed, come on and chat with us about it. We won't make you feel bad. No, we've all fallen for scams.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I would have invested in crypto if I under. They made it too complicated.

[Lola Blanc]

If I had had money. Yeah, 100%.

[Megan Elizabeth]

One million bazillion.

[Lola Blanc]

Everyone I knew was like, you're gonna get rich. Go get crypto.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, yeah, I'd have 20 Dogecoins.

[Lola Blanc]

Good.

[Dan Olson]

I, I mean, there are a few that I can give you the stats on. So, like 100% of the people who bought squid lost everything.

[Lola Blanc]

Shit, that's crazy. That's crazy.

[Dan Olson]

And, and I think that's the, that's the one that also, like, further compounds the, like, the confusion. Because the thing is, like, the number of MLMs that have been like truly 100% illusory scams is relatively few compared to the number that are just exploitatively structured.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Right? Like, there's Tupperware. We get the Tupperware, you get the

[Dan Olson]

Tupperware, you get protein powder, you get the overpriced toothpaste, you get the whatever. You know, there is a product, it's a bad product, it's an overpriced product, but it exists. And the number of just like pure scams, the number of things on the level of Squidcoin that it's like the thing never existed.

[Lola Blanc]

And Squidcoin was like. It was after Squid Game came out, some people were like, some people were

[Dan Olson]

just like, this is squid coin. And it's like. And they just, they just lifted squid games ip, you know, screen grabs and the, the general, like, aesthetic for all of their branding. And they made it look like they were affiliated, and it was very obviously not affiliated at all. But they ran this hustle. They made a market by basically buying their own thing in order to create the illusion of activity. And that created the narrative of like, oh, this is about to blow up and it's based off a squid game. And even if this is probably a scam, I'm smarter than the other people. So I'm going to get in early and I'm going to. But like, you know, because it's based off a squid game, a bunch of dumb normies are probably going to come in and they're going to buy it and that's going to cause it to a thousand x. And so I'm going to buy in early, wait for it to a thousand X, and then I'm Going to jump ship. So like you wound up actually with a lot of people getting in on it who figured that they were like smarter than the people who were coming after. And it's like, all right, it's going to start going up and then once it goes up, that becomes a self reinforcing narrative of this is a spot to make a lot of money. And then you're going to get the late comers and those late comers are going to really like, really make it go to the moon. And then I'm going to jump off the boat and get my bag and like, I don't actually care if it is a scam because I know how to like, I know how to read a scam and I'm going to get out, you know. So you wound up with this flood, this just absolute flood of people who were like all reasonably certain that they were buying into a scam, convinced that they were smarter than the scam itself and were going to be the ones to come out ahead. And then the ABs, just the people, the beauty of it, just the simplistic beauty of it, of the coin cannot be sold.

[Lola Blanc]

Right, Right.

[Dan Olson]

And so you have this wave of people convinced they're smarter than the scam and then you can't check out.

[Lola Blanc]

That's so wild.

[Dan Olson]

You are trapped here. Wow, thank you for the money. And they disappeared so fast. It was art.

[Lola Blanc]

I'm laughing because it is funny. But also I feel it is important to say that so many intelligent people fall for scams all the time.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

And you know, like, most of our guests are incredibly smart and reasonable and like just in the right circumstances of their life with the right person manipulating them at the right time. You know what I mean? Like, I actually, I don't think people are stupid. I think that there's so much identity tied up with these communities and these cultures. And I wondered if you could say a little bit about that identity and like the meaning people are getting from feeling like they're in that community. And if there's something they seem to

[Dan Olson]

have in common, the big thing is it is hard to be charitable when you spend enough time reading these people's communication.

[Megan Elizabeth]

That's probably our missing piece.

[Dan Olson]

A lot of them, there is the charitable element is that there are a lot of things that are wrong with the world and people are hungry for solutions. And there are people who have convinced themselves that the solution to a corrupt world is to have the most avarice, to just to be the most acquisitive, to be the greediest, to Be the most consumptive thing that you can be. And they transform themselves into this person via narrative, via identity, via community, of just relentlessly shilling the next big thing to anyone who listens. It is an environment that trains its participants to themselves become scammers.

[Lola Blanc]

I mean, you're in Canada, right?

[Dan Olson]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

At least here in the US we are so deeply embedded in this culture that tells us that we can be rich and we can be billionaires and we should be, and that makes us good if we are and there is no alternative. So much of the air we're living and breathing is giving us this messaging

[Megan Elizabeth]

of like, get rich and you deserve to be, and you deserve to be,

[Lola Blanc]

and there's something wrong with you if you're not. And also, like, it also makes sense in our system that we feel this way because literally, you don't get health care if you aren't rich. Like, you probably can't afford to buy a house. Like, there's so much about American culture specifically that, like, I can't necessarily blame people for starting down that path of, like, I want to make a bunch of money, but I guess it's like, when it becomes exploitative of others that I'm like, okay, let's not do that.

[Megan Elizabeth]

What's the. Like, what's the. Is this an urban legend that somebody said, hey, I'll. If you buy me a pizza, I'll give you all this bitcoin? And then the person. No.

[Dan Olson]

So that actually happened. Okay, so the mythological version is that this guy in Florida bought a pizza for 10,000 bitcoin. And so now the pizza guy is a multi billionaire because that 10,000 bitcoin is now worth whatever it's worth at the time the story is being told. The actual version is that two guys on a bitcoin forum decided to arrange a thing where the one dude is like, hey, if someone will go to this pizza place and pick up a large pepperoni and drive it to my place, I will give him 10,000 Bitcoin.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Right.

[Lola Blanc]

Okay.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And so did that bitcoin that the person got that ended up. I'm using quotation marks, exploding. I mean, does that person now have a lot of money?

[Dan Olson]

Maybe no one really, like, the fate of the guy who actually, like, brought the pizza to him is. Is a little more obfuscated. His identity is a bit more obfuscated than the identity of the guy who bought the pizza.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Right.

[Dan Olson]

But I mean, presumably, maybe he cashed out a bunch of it at some point. Okay, maybe he's still diamond Hands ing it. Like, who knows?

[Lola Blanc]

I've heard of people. You know, it's so sad to me when there's people who forgot their password or whatever.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Okay, I know. Well, and then in the news, I'm going to say two things really quickly, and you can tell me if either of these things are interesting or not. Number one, the guy in the two people in Brooklyn who took a guy and tortured him for 15 days for his bitcoin password. Have you seen this?

[Dan Olson]

Oh, yeah. I mean, that's not even the tenth time that's happened.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. So, I mean, it's a very dangerous business.

[Dan Olson]

Yeah. Sort of one of the grotesque flaws in bitcoin. And this, like, this whole untraceable money is that it turns out that just like a sack of cash that you have hidden in the backyard. If the wrong people learned that you have a very large sack of cash hidden in your backyard. Well, sure, your account might be, like, unhackable, but your kneecaps aren't.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, my God.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Right? I mean, this man was like, lit on fire.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, my God. Jesus Christ.

[Dan Olson]

Horrifying, horrifying communication.

[Megan Elizabeth]

He didn't give up his password.

[Lola Blanc]

Wait, what ended up happening to him?

[Megan Elizabeth]

He ran out and found a police officer while they were in the other room.

[Lola Blanc]

And he never. Wow.

[Land.com Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Dan Olson]

I mean, and there's a lot of stories like that that have gone both directions, right? Where people have ultimately, like, given up the password, where people are just being killed. Where. Yeah, no, it's happened a bunch. Because, like, this intersects so well with the criminal world. Because the primary value of untraceable currency is crime. The lightweight, fun version is just that, like, there's a lot of people right now who can look up the current location of their bitcoin. There's a whole system that you can use to look up your bitcoin. If you can find your wallet address, like your former wallet address, and you can see your bitcoin was up to like, it was at like 125,000 all time high last year, something like that. And so it's like, ah, there's my. There's my $2.7 million worth of Bitcoin sitting in this wallet controlled by the FBI. Oh, no, because it was in escrow at. It was in escrow at Silk Road at the time of the seizure.

[Lola Blanc]

Do you see any parallels between, for example, the flat earther community that you explored and communities like this?

[Dan Olson]

Yes, but primarily what I see is a very human instinct that I see in a lot of places. So not just a Like, straight parallel. But I see an expression of humanity in both of them, which is just motivated reasoning. That by and large, people believe things because it will confirm something else or it justifies something else or it motivates something else. And ideally, that underlying motivation is a sense of like, I have a good grasp on reality as it exists. You know, I know more about the world. I have been given knowledge that empowers me to accomplish things or do things or, you know, achieve things. And sometimes it's a narrative that empowers your worst behaviors and says that, oh, it is okay to be greedy and consumptive and acquisitive and exploitative because, you know, wealth is good. Wealth makes me a good person. There's an old. There's an old saying that not every American is a Christian, but they are all Calvinists. That the sort of belief in predestination and in America, a predestination to wealth. America is a country of temporarily embarrassed millionaires.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah.

[Dan Olson]

That is, you know, ordained in the stars. And that whatever actions you take that move you towards that are per se justified. That's ultimately the parallel that I see is people using a story to justify a thing that they already wanted.

[Lola Blanc]

Right. Is there a particular type of person or demographic that seems to be particularly susceptible to NFT crypto scams?

[Dan Olson]

The crypto narrative is heavily gendered. It relies very, very, very much on macho narratives that we see in finance, that we see in real estate, that we see in business. It lifts very heavily from the outward signifiers of that. Fast cars, beautiful women.

[Megan Elizabeth]

What about gamer? Has it entered the gamer sphere?

[Dan Olson]

Oh, yes.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Okay.

[Dan Olson]

It is like basically the Mark Zuckerberg ification of that. It's like you take a Gordon Gekko, you put him in a hoodie, you give him. You give him a laptop that has Diablo IV installed on it, and you tell him that it's like, oh, sure, your dad or your grandpa lost all his money betting on penny stocks. Well, this is your opportunity to lose all your money on something stupid that doesn't exist. You know, it's.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I mean, I kind of want to do it.

[Dan Olson]

It's penny stocks for gamers.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

Have you ever invested in crypto?

[Dan Olson]

Invested in crypto? No, but I have held. I have held a few different cryptos for various purposes at times.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Interesting.

[Dan Olson]

Okay, so, like, that sounds cagey. The main. The. The main one was I. I had a little Bitcoin back in 2011, 2012, mainly because I was like, okay, like, what's going on here? Like, I was hearing all of these stories. I was hearing it's like, digital cash. And I'm like, well, let's find out if this is actually, like, you're hearing the narrative. What does it actually mean? What. What does it mean to buy something with Bitcoin? Can you buy something with Bitcoin? What happens? How convenient is it? And it turns out it was, like, extremely inconvenient and very difficult. And, you know, the. The pathways and systems weren't there. And it took days to do anything. And I was like, okay, this is not. This is not going mainstream anytime soon. Not as. Not as like, a currency. This. This story of, like, digital cash is dead in the water. So I had Bitcoin then, and the FBI has it now. And then I had some various things that I just sort of used for essentially the same kind of like, testing the system functionality during the production of Line goes up. And those are all gone now. Either I offloaded them or just they were worth nothing and I just forgot the.

[Lola Blanc]

In general, how do we maintain a healthy dose of skepticism about these promises of wealth and success in the tech realm?

[Dan Olson]

If anyone tells you you need to jump on something before it's too late, they're wrong. And then, just like the old standbys for anything, any financial advice, don't spend more than you can afford. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. If it is the future, then there's no such thing as too late. And if there is such a thing as too late, then what someone was talking about wasn't investing. They were talking about gambling.

[Lola Blanc]

Right. Perfect.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Okay, I'm gonna throw a few things at you super quickly.

[Dan Olson]

Sure.

[Megan Elizabeth]

So I went into the Epstein files to look at emails that are very disturbing. And it's like, oh, it looks like Epstein kind of started some of this crypto shit. I don't know. But I just want to throw out there that after I was looking at all of this stuff, I would sometimes go look to see what people were saying about some of the emails on Instagram or TikTok. And after I would be going down that rabbit hole for a while, Flat Earth videos started popping up in my algorithm.

[Lola Blanc]

Really?

[Megan Elizabeth]

And I was like, my head was so turned upside down. My reality was so shaken to its core that I was like, yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

You're like, maybe.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

Wow.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And. And it was just so interesting how a lot of these email wanting to get children to start buying things and games that, you know, they're using to kind of get them. I forgot exactly how he put it. But get them into the What's.

[Lola Blanc]

Economy.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Economy. Onboard them on board themselves onboard them into the economy. And it was just so trippy. And it's just funny that the two things we're talking about intersected. That's really funny where I suddenly became susceptible to something ridiculous.

[Dan Olson]

And I. I would assume that the. The algorithmic tie there is more that, like, the Epstein files are fascinating and a measure of actual conspiracy, but people who love really wacky conspiracies really love digging through the files and spending their whole time, like, baking them and finding truly bizarre stuff that, like, does not exist. And it's like, no, there's enough evil here. There's enough evil here that, like, happened. We don't need to make stuff up on top of it.

[Lola Blanc]

Ugh, thank you. If we cared enough about. About actual victims of sexual assault, we wouldn't need to find all of this other crazy shit. Like there's. Yeah, but did you know that there's like.

[Dan Olson]

There's also like. Clearly they were trying to summon the devil.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, well, of course.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Right.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. I mean, that's the most annoying part too. Like somebody was saying yesterday, like, well, they're worshiping a demon. And it's like, well, maybe they are in their minds worshiping a demon. I don't fudge know, but like, do you believe in Scientology? Is God? No. If they're worshiping something, who gives a shit? Like, just make themselves sex trafficking people.

[Lola Blanc]

And also, historically speaking, and I won't shut up about this to everyone, these past couple of weeks, whenever there's like accusations of baby eating and satanic worship, they're usually not rooted in reality and there's usually something very, like, real happening instead of that. And I think one thing you talked about in the flat earth one. Sorry, I can't remember the titles of your video.

[Dan Olson]

In search of a Flat Earth.

[Lola Blanc]

In search of a flat Earth. Oh, he got his cat out.

[Dan Olson]

The door opened. That is the cutest cat. Hello. Hello, Amy.

[Lola Blanc]

If only everybody could see. One thing you talked about that if we can quickly get it in here, is unfalsifiability.

[Dan Olson]

Yes.

[Lola Blanc]

What I am observing with the Epstein files and you can tell me what you think of this is that because there are so many redactions and because it's been such a part partial release, it contributes to this rampant speculation and like Charlie Day brain map stuff of unfalsifiability of you can kind of read whatever into it that you're looking for.

[Dan Olson]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

And again, there were enough crimes. Those crimes were. Are worth Prosecuting and those victims are real anyway. Do you have any thoughts on that?

[Dan Olson]

Yeah, I mean that's just. You already said it. That it's like the redactions were so clearly aggressive and overreaching and widespread that you could speculate intentionally made things just a giant pit into which anyone could read any narrative they wanted. Which lets certain groups that already have their narratives take their pre existing ones and just like, ah, here is proof that they were summoning an egregore.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And I, I don't believe that the world is flat and I don't believe that there's a demon.

[Lola Blanc]

I think just like in general, I would encourage folks to, to pause on jumping to conclusions before there is evidence there and try to center actual victims who are standing before us, broadly speaking. All right, Dan, do you have any final thoughts for us on crypto? Shouldn't we invest what you got for us?

[Dan Olson]

Well, so this is a perfect time for me to announce the launch of my new coin. No, just reality is self justifying and it is worth seeking the truth for its own sake. Pseudoarchaeology, tea leaf reading, mysticism. It's fake. There's nothing there. And it is nothing but a window that lets other people into your soul to exploit you.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I will say everybody should go watch your videos. I feel like I'm on DMT while I'm watching it. Because you're so smart that you somehow make things make sense to me that shouldn't. So I'm just like in a completely altered sense of reality. Like, whoa, I completely get it. And then I turn you off and I don't get it anymore.

[Dan Olson]

But thank you.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, you're really good at what you do. So how can people find you?

[Dan Olson]

So we're on YouTube folding ideas. And I can be found on Blueskyoldablehuman. That's the handle that I can be found under on most social media. But bluesky is where I post my gripes about video games these days.

[Lola Blanc]

Perfect. Amazing. And do a video on industry because it's so good and I think you'll like it. Awesome.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Thank you so much for joining us.

[Dan Olson]

Thank you for having me.

[Lola Blanc]

That concludes part two with Dan Olson.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Wow.

[Lola Blanc]

And we already talked about whether you would join the cult of crypto.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Sure did.

[Lola Blanc]

So I guess that just leaves us with only one thing left.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yep.

[Lola Blanc]

Which is what would we call our cryptocurrency?

[Megan Elizabeth]

And when are we starting?

[Lola Blanc]

And when are we starting?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Um, I think we should call our cryptocurrency Trust. No, like cult.

[Lola Blanc]

Cultcoin.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Cult Coin.

[Lola Blanc]

Cult coin. Does that exist, I wonder?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, we should call it Cultcoin.

[Lola Blanc]

No, Cult Coin, though.

[Megan Elizabeth]

No, it is Cultcoin. No, it is Cultcoin.

[Lola Blanc]

We.

[Megan Elizabeth]

We don't say that we're running it. We pretend that someone else is.

[Lola Blanc]

Sure.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And we, like, put really heavy, like, demands. We love bomb our members, then we're mean to them, so they're super addicted.

[Lola Blanc]

Of course. You gotta do that.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

All of our imagery. Do they have imagery? Does crypto have imagery?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Like the NFT kind of things? We could slide in.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, yeah, we'd have NFTs. It's like super religious. Look, it's like us, but like with halos.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, but sexy.

[Lola Blanc]

Sexy halos.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

Like in bikinis, but with halos and wings.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yes, yes.

[Lola Blanc]

Like a Victoria's Secret ad.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Lola Blanc]

Who's signing up? Come and buy our crypto.

[Megan Elizabeth]

We have no idea how to start it, how to end it or how to do it.

[Lola Blanc]

If we wanted to start our crypto, we would end up being scammed by literally everyone.

[Megan Elizabeth]

So everybody just, yeah, relax on the crypto. Lots, lots to be gleaned from from Dan. I'm so appreciative that he came on and explained all this to us.

[Lola Blanc]

Same God, I feel like I know more, but I also think I'm going to forget everything I learned in one week.

[Megan Elizabeth]

He's one of those people who makes you feel like, oh, I know more now that I now know how little I know.

[Lola Blanc]

Totally.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

I guess we have to keep watching the Folding Ideas YouTube channel to keep learning.

[Megan Elizabeth]

As if I could stop. All right, well, give us five stars. If you are so inclined, buy some merch at Exactly Right merch [e-mail] and as always, remember to follow your gut. Watch out for red flags and never, ever trust me.

[Lola Blanc]

Bye. This has been an Exactly Right production, hosted by me, Lola Blanc, and me, Megan Elizabeth.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Our senior producer is Jiha Lee.

[Lola Blanc]

This episode was mixed by John Bradley.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain, and our guest booker is Patrick Cotner.

[Lola Blanc]

Our theme song was composed by Holly Amber Church.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Trust Me is executive produced by Karen Kilgareth, Georgia Hardstark and Danielle Kramer.

[Lola Blanc]

You can find us on Instagram, USMePodcast or on TikTok. USMeCultPodcast.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Got your own story about cults, extreme belief or manipulation? Shoot us an email@trust trustmepodmail.com Listen to

[Lola Blanc]

Trust Me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Hey, y', all, it's Lauren LaRosa have you ever had one of those weeks where your curls are just parched? Like no matter what you do, they are begging for moisture. Cantu heard you loud and clear with their new Ultra Moisture Collection. Powered by Batana Oil and Jamaican Black Castor Oil, this new line is clinically proven to help retain moisture for up to five days. Delivers up to five days of non stop hydration. Five whole days, y'. All. The shampoo gently cleanses without stripping and the leave in and stylers keep curls soft, defined and hydrated long after your wash day. Plus it's free of sulfates, parabens, silicones and mineral oils. If your curls have been craving real hydration, then this is it. So if your hair's curls have been so thirsty, go ahead and try that new Cantu Ultra Moisture collection. Your curls will thank thank you. It's available now at Walmart, Target and Amazon. So go get it.

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[Dan Olson]

From the creators of Jury Duty comes a new installment full of hijinks, hilarity and hot sauce. This season we're taking the comedy out

[Ryan Seacrest]

of the courthouse and into the mountains for an annual company retreat.

[Dan Olson]

The catch? Everyone but the new guy is an actor. Oh yeah, and the company is fake. Season two arrives with bigger laughs, higher

[Ryan Seacrest]

stakes and the same heart that made

[Dan Olson]

season one a cultural phenomenon.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Watch Jury Duty presents Company Retreat, now

[Dan Olson]

streaming on Prime Video.

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