Podcast Summary:

Trust Me: Cults, Extreme Belief, and Manipulation
Episode: Jane Borden - Cults Like Us: Puritans, Demagogues, and America’s Doomsday Obsession
Date: September 10, 2025
Hosts: Lola Blanc & Meagan Elizabeth
Guest: Jane Borden, Author of "Cults: Why Doomsday Thinking Drives America"

Episode Overview

In this captivating episode, hosts Lola Blanc and Meagan Elizabeth welcome writer and religious studies scholar Jane Borden. Drawing on her new book, Borden explores how the Puritans, doomsday thinking, and cultic group dynamics have laid the philosophical and psychological groundwork for American society. The discussion traverses history—illuminating how apocalyptic beliefs, authoritarianism, and black-and-white thinking continue to warp everything from economics and politics to self-help and pronatalism. The episode is a thoughtful, often darkly funny investigation into how the human urge to belong, fear chaos, and seek simple answers can be manipulated—even today.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Cultiest Breaking News & Host Banter

• Cultiest Thing of the Week:
  • Meagan reflects on the Lori Vallow case (04:00), noting, "Whenever somebody decides to represent themselves in court, I automatically assume that they are very mentally unwell..."
  • Lola describes attending Al Anon: finding elements of cultish groupthink, like “shared language and slogans,” but notices its safeguards against centralized authority (07:00).
  • Both hosts discuss the fine line between healing community and unhealthy conformity.

2. The Puritans: America’s First Cult? (10:00–18:00)

• Jane Borden: “The Puritans were kind of a cult. If people today looked back at them, we would call them a cult.” (13:11)
  • The Puritans fled England, believing Armageddon was imminent and that England would be destroyed first for not purifying the Church enough.
  • They enforced high-control measures:
    • “Belief was controlled, behavior was controlled, information intake controlled…It was a culture of punishment.” (15:39)
    • Swearing, flirting, skipping church, and disagreeing with ministers became punishable offenses.
    • Informant dynamics created an atmosphere of fear and conformity.
  • Membership Tension: Only the “chosen” could enter the church, but the process became increasingly exclusionary to protect leaders’ power—illustrating the recurring cult theme of access always just out of reach (16:53).

3. Doomsday Thinking: The Apocalyptic Mindset (20:17–23:20)

• Origins: Apocalyptic thinking emerges with monotheism—spreading from Zoroastrianism to Judaism to Christianity, deeply shaping Puritan thought.
• American Obsession: Puritans imported this worldview, building a culture around the belief that the end was always near.
• The Day of Doom: A bestselling poem in New England celebrated the joy of the “elect” watching the wicked punished— “So their first reward is to see their loved ones and friends get thrown into the lake of fire.” (23:08)

4. Puritan Values and American Economics: Wealth as Virtue (23:23–27:30)

• Work and Wealth: Puritans saw hard work as worship; wealth signaled God’s favor.
  • Over time, accumulating wealth became righteous: “So, is wealth then really bad, or is it just a sign…that maybe he loves you in turn?” (24:17)
• Bootstrap Myth: “The number in your bank account represents your moral character…if you’re poor, surely God wants you to be poor.” (25:22)
• Baked-in Justification: These beliefs rationalized rising inequality and justified exploiting, rather than aiding, the poor.

5. The American Monomyth & Authoritarian Longing (27:40–37:43)

• Monomyth Defined:
  • Hero stories (Westerns, action films) follow an “outsider saves the day through cleansing violence, then disappears”—originating in Puritan “Indian captivity narratives” and the Book of Revelation. (28:47)
• Revelation’s Real Message:
  • The Book of Revelation, often taken as literal prophecy, was anti-Roman propaganda written for persecuted Jews. “It’s a story of divine retribution…very much coded.” (31:38)
• Authoritarianism:
  • The monomyth primes Americans for autocratic leaders: “It subconsciously encourages the public to…wait for a superhero and then grant that figure unlimited and unchecked power.” (35:55 Lola quoting Borden)
  • Crisis amplifies cultic thinking; sociopolitical and economic pressures increase our vulnerability to demagogues.

6. Pronatalism, Eugenics, and Doomsday Replication (40:28–45:38)

• Modern Pronatalism: Some believe “if elites in America specifically stop having kids, that’s going to be the end of civilization.” (41:15) This echoes Puritan chosen-people logic and feeds into white supremacy.
  • The movement sometimes advocates for selective reproduction, paralleling historical eugenics justified as a pursuit of “perfection.”
• Self-Help and Exploitation: The idea of achieving heaven-on-earth through self-improvement leads to endless cycles of consumerism and exploitation. “The more we engage in self-reflection… it makes us sick. It doesn’t make us happier.” (46:06)

7. Why Do We Fall for It? How Marketing Became Cultic (49:31–53:17)

• Edward Bernays (Freud’s Nephew):
  • Changed advertising from need-based to desire-creation—“take my uncle’s ideas about the subconscious and desire and apply it to advertising.” (50:26)
  • PR and marketing now deploy cult-leader tactics: manufacture anxiety, offer false fixes, and create ever-renewing consumer dependence.
  • Bernays inspired not just American corporations, but political regimes—his book was found in Nazi offices.

8. The Power of the Pause: Resisting Cultic Thinking (53:23–64:32)

• Hope & Solutions:
  • “When we see the magic trick we stop falling for it.” (53:27)
  • The most radical act is community and mutual aid: “We have to bridge divides, because cult-like thinking feeds off division.” (61:18)
  • Practicing “the pause” before believing, buying, or acting out of fear—both on a personal and systemic level—is crucial. “Checks and balances are a pause…to create space for truth-seeking rather than reaction.” (57:31)
  • Online algorithms behave like cult leaders—isolating, manipulating, and controlling for profit.
  • Real hope lies in getting offline, forming genuine local connections, and engaging physically and emotionally with others.

9. Final Thoughts and Notable Quotes

• Notable Quotes:
  • “Cults break you down and rebuild you in their own image.” – Jane Borden (49:26)
  • “The pause…can help me name and identify what that inner battle is. Once I bring it to the surface, it is so much less powerful.” – Lola Blanc (64:00)
  • “The most radical thing we can do in our current environment is to care for one another…it sounds cliche, but community and mutual aid bridge divides.” – Jane Borden (61:18)
  • “Algorithms are the most successful cult leaders ever.” – Jane Borden (59:44)
  • “Pronatalism, self-help, advertising—all of it: it’s just power replicating itself.” – Jane Borden (42:49)

Timestamps for Major Segments

• [02:28] – Introduction to Jane Borden and episode themes
• [10:00–18:00] – Puritans as a high-control cultic group
• [20:17–23:20] – Doomsday thinking and its origins
• [23:23–27:30] – The Puritan roots of American bootstrap and wealth mythology
• [27:40–37:43] – The American Monomyth, authoritarian longings, and their pop culture roots
• [40:28–45:38] – Pronatalism, eugenics, the drive for perfection
• [49:31–53:17] – Edward Bernays, marketing, and the cult of advertising
• [53:23–64:32] – Resisting manipulation: “the pause,” community, and bridging divides
• [61:08] – Jane Borden’s hopeful conclusion

Memorable Moments

• Lola and Meagan’s tongue-in-cheek refusal to “join the Puritans,” underscoring how unappealing extremism is in retrospect (65:12).
• The revelation that algorithms operate as digital cult leaders—a fresh, resonant perspective on contemporary manipulation (59:44).
• Jane’s emphasis on community, empathy, and real-world connection as both antidote and hope.

Conclusion

This episode masterfully draws connections across centuries, exposing how cultish thinking—born of fear, division, and a longing for certainty—infects everything from religious roots to modern self-help and politics. Borden’s insights, paired with the hosts’ humor and vulnerability, empower listeners to recognize manipulation, question easy answers, value “the pause,” and ultimately seek meaning, agency, and healing in community with others.

Recommended Action:

• For anyone wrestling with questions of belief, influence, and community, read Jane Borden’s Cults: Why Doomsday Thinking Drives America and seek out local, real-world networks for resilient, compassionate human connection.