Jasper Hoffman, Part 1 - From Atheists to Mennonites

Summary

Trust Me: Cults, Extreme Belief, and Manipulation

Episode: Jasper Hoffman, Part 1 – From Atheists to Mennonites

Release Date: July 8, 2026
Host(s): Lola Blanc & Megan Elizabeth
Guest: Jasper Hoffman, writer, podcaster, and former Mennonite

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Lola and Megan interview Jasper Hoffman, host of The Plain People's Podcast, about her family's remarkable transition from a secular, artsy California lifestyle to joining—then wholeheartedly embracing—the Mennonite faith. Not raised in the tradition, Jasper recounts how her punk-rock, atheist, anthropology-loving parents became immersed in homesteading, homeschooling, and ultimately, the tighter confines of the Mennonite community. Part One traces the allure of devotion, the evolving rules and expectations for girls and women, and the subtle and overt methods of control and conformity within such religious communities.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Defining “Plain People” and Inter-Group Relations

[13:12–15:01]

• Plain People is a term used for conservative Anabaptist churches (Amish, Mennonite, Hutterite), distinguished by their desire to be seen as "separate," "plain," and simple.
  • Jasper: "Plain people is just a nice little umbrella term to kind of include all those churches." [13:28]
• There's cross-pollination and occasional friendly rivalry between groups (Amish and Mennonite), muddling lines but often sharing similar values—even to the point of families moving between denominations.
  • Jasper: "Any cult or any church is a lot like lasagna... all the same ingredients, but everybody has their own little unique flavoring." [14:20]

2. Origins: From Punk Rock to Homesteading to Faith

[15:05–18:39]

• Jasper's mother came from a privileged Hollywood background, attended school with Jodie Foster and Christie Brinkley, was an atheist and a punk rocker, and had a penchant for alternative lifestyles.
  • Jasper’s parents studied anthropology and history, met in college, and were drawn to alternative communities in Humboldt County, California.
• The trend toward homesteading and homeschooling in the '80s/'90s allowed folks disillusioned with mainstream culture to exit “the grid,” aligning with today's tradwife movement.
  • Jasper: "It was a lot of homesteading and... people that were pulling their children out of public school to homeschool them way before it became accepted like it is today." [17:09]
• The death of Jasper’s Catholic grandfather led her atheist mother to promise she would take Jasper to church, marking the family’s soft entry into religion.

3. Homeschooling as a Gateway to Fundamentalism

[18:39–24:46]

• The local homeschool group was large and diverse, spanning secular anti-government families to conservative Christians.
  • Jasper remembers the group as “very organized” with field trips and a loose curriculum.
• Lack of educational resources meant the group sourced textbooks from Mennonite/Amish publishers (Rod and Staff), sparking interest from the church itself—and eventually bringing Mennonite missionaries to town for a “revival week.”
  • Jasper: "Rod and Staff had reached out to the secretary of the home school group to see why … if they sent missionaries there to do a revival week long service of Mennonites, would there be interest?" [21:45]
• The family hosted missionaries, and soon became “founding members” of a new Mennonite congregation in California.

4. Love Bombing & Gradual Immersion

[24:46–29:35]

• Jasper describes the early "love bombing" phase: excessive warmth, delicious food, structure, and acceptance.
  • Jasper: “It's the love bombing phase of any church, I believe, and any abusive relationship where everything just looks so pretty on the outside.” [24:46]
• High-control religion appeals to people dissatisfied or chaotic in other life areas; in offering "a guidebook," the church fills a personal or familial void.
  • Jasper: "People are drawn to these authoritarian, high control, high demand religion because... there's something internally that's not being met." [25:40]
• Changes in family identity progressed slowly: clothing, loss of TV, gradual adoption of “plain” customs.
• Memorable Moment: Jasper likens the experience to “being boiled like a lobster” – not realizing the full impact as immersion increases. [20:28]

5. Escalation: From California to the Midwest

[32:32–36:07]

• After about three years, Jasper’s parents sought greater religious “authenticity” and moved sight-unseen to a more conservative Mennonite church in Illinois.
• Abrupt lifestyle changes: the family disposes of possessions—TV, family heirlooms, Jasper’s beloved piano—deepening the sense of loss and separation.
  • Jasper: "I knew that I wanted to pursue some sort of higher education... and so around that time when they decided to move, that's when I was coming... everything's gone pretty much." [34:58]
• The move signaled a transition from “Mennonite-lite” to its much stricter form.

6. Life in a Conservative Mennonite Community

[37:36–46:09]

• Jasper enters Mennonite school at 14, now highly regulated and isolating (“the only girl in ninth grade”).
• Shock at the degree of information control: pages (science, psychology) blacked out in encyclopedias, only church-approved curriculum used.
  • Jasper: "The encyclopedias were missing pages... blacked out with marker. Anything that had to do with science, psychology..." [39:28]
• Expectations for girls: “keepers at home,” learning domestic skills with education focused on practical homemaking.
• Despite some useful teaching (balancing a checkbook, typing), the school culture included harsh physical punishment for perceived disobedience (“the basement”), and extreme social and behavioral regs.
  • Jasper: "You would hear children being beaten if they were out of line. And that was hard." [48:52]

7. Discipline, Conformity, and Exclusion

[49:00–51:37]

• Seemingly minor infractions could trigger discipline: “My brother got in trouble... for saying, 'you guys.'” [49:00]
• Jasper herself is eventually banned from returning to school for being “too friendly” with boys and not conforming enough.
  • Jasper: "I was not allowed to come back... they had too many problems with me. So I only... finished my education in ninth grade." [49:52]
  • Lola: "Because you were questioning too much? ... Or were you not allowed to come back?"
  • Jasper: "Yeah, I think so. And I was too, too familiar with the boys. I was too friendly." [50:09]
• Social control intensified as Jasper was pressured to “apply for membership” and conform.

8. Emotional and Psychological Impact

[51:41–54:53]

• Isolation and humiliation heighten as Jasper is excluded from school, but still seeks acceptance by adopting even stricter religious observance (“bought it hook, line, and sinker”).
• Self-image and hopes for a veterinary career are erased; focus pivots to being “the perfect Mennonite girl.”
  • Jasper: “I just shifted my focus so much on becoming the perfect Mennonite girl so I would marry well.” [55:04]
• Fiercely hangs on to her individuality (getting a horse), in spite of community resistance.
• Memorable Quote: "There was never any point where I was like, this is baloney." [53:53]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Jasper on the diversity and similarity of conservative Christian groups:
  “Any cult or any church is a lot like lasagna, where it's pretty much all the same ingredients, but everybody has their own little unique flavoring. And everyone thinks that they are the winner of the potluck for sure.” [14:20]

• Jasper on slowly losing her autonomy:
  “I liken it a lot to just being boiled like a lobster. So you have no idea, really, what you're getting into with this… it was a slow progression of, like, losing access, like, to TV…my clothes were slowly...I was not allowed to start purchasing pants.” [20:28, 28:10]

• Jasper on church as a refuge for dysfunctional families:
  “People are drawn to these authoritarian, high control, high demand religion because you guys know there's something internally that's not being met, a need, and people don't know how to source that from within. So they're looking for a guidebook.” [25:40]

• On controlling information:
  “...the encyclopedias were missing pages. Oh, they were glued together. They were blacked out with marker. Anything that had to do with science, psychology, things that I had been raised around.” [39:28]

• On being excluded from church school:
  “I was not allowed to come back… they had too many problems with me. So I only… finished my education in ninth grade. That was pretty much it for me.” [49:52]

• On continued attempts to conform:
  “I was literally immersed in it and was trying to be the best Mennonite possible. There was never any point where I was like, this is baloney… I was so pious, y’all. Like, I was so nauseatingly…pious.” [53:53–54:10]

• On church discipline:
  "You would hear children being beaten if they were out of line. And that was hard. And so you just tried to stay out of the basement and stay in compliance with what was expected of you." [48:52]

• On expectations for women:
  "So the whole focus then shifts to learning how to be a keeper at home... I never molded into the good keeper at home, gentle spirit girl, because all I wanted to do was be outside riding horses." [36:36]

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Additional Insights

• Love Bombing: Both Jasper and the hosts reflect on the universal tactic of "love bombing" and the slow encroachment of rules in high-demand groups.
• Cultural Control through Fashion and Media: The transition for Jasper’s mother—from punk to quilted jumper—was gradual, mirroring the incremental lost freedoms throughout the family.
• Information Blackouts: Extreme censorship extended even to encyclopedic knowledge, reflecting deep distrust of secular or scientific information.

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Key Timestamps

• [13:12] Introduction of "Plain People" and inter-group dynamics
• [15:22] Jasper’s unconventional family background
• [18:39] On homeschooling and the seeds of religious conversion
• [21:45] How Mennonite missionaries entered their lives
• [24:46] Love bombing and the rationale for joining high-demand religions
• [32:32] Sudden leap: moving cross-country for deeper religious immersion
• [34:58] The loss of possessions and personal dreams
• [39:28] Discovery of blacked out encyclopedias at school
• [48:52] Physical discipline for children in church school
• [49:52] Jasper is banned from returning to school
• [53:53] Striving for perfection and the lure of conformity

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Tone and Style

The overall tone of the episode is both compassionate and darkly humorous, with the hosts and Jasper blending sobering stories with relatable asides (“cosplaying Little House on the Prairie,” “the vintage clothing pipeline”). The honesty and vulnerability of Jasper's account, as well as the hosts’ own cult-adjacent experiences, foster a raw but empathetic exploration of belonging and belief.

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Looking Ahead

Part Two Teaser:
Jasper’s account is brought up to the moment where she’s shut out of school and begins a period of deep internalization of Mennonite values and expectations. The next episode (Part Two) will cover how she eventually left the church and began to rebuild her identity.

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For anyone fascinated by the psychology of belief, the subtle (and not so subtle) mechanisms of control, or the lived experience of negotiating faith and individuality, this conversation provides powerful first-person insight into how ordinary families can be drawn down the rabbit hole of extreme devotion.

Transcript

[Lola Blanc]

This is exactly right.

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[Megan Elizabeth]

This is Lele pons from suite 305 with Lele Pons. Game day at my house. It's chaos but like in a fun way. The TV's ready, the remotes are ready, the kids stores are going off and somehow everybody needs batteries at the exact same time. That's why I keep Duracell stocked. And Duracell just released limited edition Duracell

[Jasper Hoffman]

and messy battery packs.

[Megan Elizabeth]

The design is inspired by Messi's iconic left leg tattoo, so every battery feels like it comes with an extra kick. From the TV remote to automatic corkscrew, Duracell keeps us game day ready. Duracell double and triple A batteries are the only ones built different with power boost ingredients for long lasting performance you can trust. Find the limited edition Duracell and Messi batteries in stores at Lowe's and Walmart or on Amazon.

[Commercial Announcer]

Trust me. Do you trust me? Would I ever lead you astray? Trust me, this is the truth. The only truth.

[Lola Blanc]

If anybody ever tells you to just trust them, don't. Welcome to Trust Me, the podcast about cult extreme belief and manipulation from two horse girls who've actually experienced it. I'm Lola Blanche.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And I'm Megan Elizabeth.

[Lola Blanc]

This week we're joined by Jasper Hoffman, writer, podcaster and former Mennonite. In part one Today she's going to tell us about how her parents went from being a punk rock atheist and an anthropology major to homesteading and homeschooling which eventually led them to church. First a non denominational one and then of course a Mennonite church that came into town when Jasper was a kid.

[Megan Elizabeth]

She'll tell us about how it then escalated to her family moving to the Midwest, getting rid of all their material possessions and committing wholeheartedly to being Mennonites with redacted encyclopedias and physical punishment in the basement for children who are considered rebellious and why she was forbidden from going back to school.

[Lola Blanc]

And stay tuned next week for part two because she will tell us about leaving the church. But before we go to menon, I was going to try to make that a thing before we go to into the Mennonite world with her. Megan, what's your culties thing?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Well, as you might know, there's a guy named Samuel Bateman who started a cult.

[Lola Blanc]

Sure is.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And he was sentenced to 50 years in prison, which is incredible. We've been following the story through your mom. We've had gnomes on the podcast. We have Mikel coming up on the podcast. Lots of people who have escaped from this man's grip. And I've been watching Court TV of him representing himself. Can you say Ted Bundy?

[Lola Blanc]

Oh my God. Yeah. Something I learned this weekend was that so called sovereign citizens represent themselves in court because they don't recognize the government and they don't recognize lawyers as like legitimate. And Sam, apparently because I was watching this with my, this presentation with my mom, she was whispering to me saying that's why Sam represented himself because he subscribes to this idea.

[Jasper Hoffman]

Stupid.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Stop. Well, he did a really bad job, thank God. And it's just so number one, he's like really turning on this Michelle Duggar voice. So he's almost talking like a woman now. Like he's trying to be super sweet. So you know, he like. Like the sweetest sweet a sweet could ever be is his new cadence. And he's impossible to understand. You can't. He cannot make a clear point to save his life. He thinks this is all about like the girls being in the tractor trailer. The trailer, I guess, not a tractor trailer. And like he keeps being like, I didn't know they were in there. And it's like that's, that's not the problem. You did know they were in there. But that's not actually what any of us really care about.

[Jasper Hoffman]

Yeah, yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

It's just always fascinating to watch these people really think that they are smarter than the average bear.

[Lola Blanc]

Yes.

[Megan Elizabeth]

No, please, please keep that in. So I am so glad he got served way more than the 50 years, because then there's all these other child endangerment clauses, whatever the fuck it's called. I'm not a lawyer and I know that. So, you know, he. He's. He's going to jail for a long time. It's so satisfying. And, yes, more to come on this story.

[Lola Blanc]

Yes, definitely. And it's been really fun to see all the women at his trial together in cahoots, you know, like, cheering each other on, like. Yeah, what a. What a nice ending to a very Otherwise very alarming story.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I know. I mean, they're just, like, making direct eye contact and being like. Yep, you're an asshole. Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, I know. It's so sick.

[Megan Elizabeth]

It's so awesome.

[Jasper Hoffman]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

God, it's. The earth is healing. What about you? What's your cultiest thing?

[Lola Blanc]

I went to my first cult conference, which I'm so sad you weren't able to attend. I know, but been meaning to go

[Jasper Hoffman]

to this for years.

[Lola Blanc]

So, ICSA is the International Cultic Studies association. And every year they have a conference. It's in a different city every year. It was like Manchester a few years ago, so I definitely didn't go to that one, because what am I, made of money? But this year it was in San Diego, which is just a couple hours south of us in la. And so I was able to go and met my mom there and saw so many of our former guests, which was so cool. Cause some of them I've only ever seen in the little square on the screen.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Aw.

[Lola Blanc]

I know. But, yeah, I got to go to some presentations there. Some really interesting ones. There was this guy, Dave Buddha, who did one that I thought was just like a fascinating premise, which is he called it Planned obsolescence and Personal growth.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Okay.

[Lola Blanc]

This idea that, like, you go to these large group awareness trainings, like a Tony Robbins or whatever landmark, and you are sort of sold this idea that you're going to have a permanently altered state of your life. That when in reality, there's a very knowingly, a very temporary and fleeting emotional state being induced in you in these weekends.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Lola Blanc]

And the goal is to get you to try to keep chasing that feeling with the belief that it's going to be eventually permanent, but instead it's actually like, they are well aware that it's typically not. I mean, of course, there are some people whose lives are changed forever, but for the most part, and he was, you know, kind of describing how it's a bell curve and most people are in the middle. And of course, there's people on either end of the extremes. But generally, you go. You feel something, you go back to your life, you don't feel it anymore.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Right.

[Lola Blanc]

And so just the idea of planned obsolescence, which for the folks who don't know that term, that's kind of like this idea that, let's say your iPhone, or whatever technological. Whatever product you have, is designed to not last forever, because if it eventually breaks down, you do have to buy another one. And I just thought that was a really cool concept to apply to, like, self help seminars.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, I relate to this a lot. And that the Two by Two is the cult that I grew up in. We would have these conventions that were like four day long, pretty intense seminars, you could say. And afterwards you would feel, in my experience, would almost bring all of our parents. Because I'm looking at this from a kid into, like an OCD state of mind, where it's like, fresh slate, clean slate. We've got to be perfect from here

[Jasper Hoffman]

on out, you know, and then it

[Megan Elizabeth]

would just be like, slowly, slowly, you'd start to make human mistakes. And then you would. It'd be like ramped up for next year's convention where you felt so guilty for not being perfect. And everyone would pray. Like, people would literally pray that they would die on their way home from convention.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, my.

[Megan Elizabeth]

So that they would be clean. Yeah, it's all in there.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah. I think, like, you know, just pretty typical, this idea that you. There's some state of perfection you're going to achieve when, of course we are human. We are human beings.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, we're human beings.

[Lola Blanc]

And I did say beans. I just want to clarify. That was intentional. I was being cute.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Sorry.

[Lola Blanc]

I don't think it's.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I was like, totally. We are.

[Lola Blanc]

We're human beings.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Although I will say the Tony Robbins conference did permanently change my life, but not for reasons about him. I just left it early and came home and caught my boyfriend doing math.

[Lola Blanc]

Jesus Christ. Yeah. I don't know if we can attribute that to that.

[Megan Elizabeth]

No. But I did leave.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, hey, look at that.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I was, like, holding the notebook. I was holding the notebook, the Tony Robbins notebook that I'd filled out. And I was like, I'm leaving you.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, my God.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Anyway.

[Lola Blanc]

What a perfect breakup story.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Tony. Call me.

[Lola Blanc]

Shout out. Anyway, that was just one of many. There was another one on how cults, you know, how many of them replicate their coercive dynamics even after the leader dies. You know there's just a lot of interesting stuff and so folks, check out IXA if you feel so inclined.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Sounds like some future topics for us to discuss, but for now this is indeed shall we talk to Jasper?

[Lola Blanc]

Let's do it.

[Megan Elizabeth]

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[Lola Blanc]

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[Megan Elizabeth]

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[Lola Blanc]

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[Megan Elizabeth]

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[Lola Blanc]

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[Megan Elizabeth]

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[Lola Blanc]

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[Megan Elizabeth]

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[Megan Elizabeth]

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[Jasper Hoffman]

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[Jasper Hoffman]

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[Jasper Hoffman]

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[Lola Blanc]

Welcome Jasper Hoffman, to Trust me. Thank you so much for being with us.

[Jasper Hoffman]

I'm so excited to be here. Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

So much to talk to you about. First of all, you host a podcast called the Plain People's Podcast. And the reason that you host this podcast is because of your own upbringing. First of all, what does plain people refer to?

[Jasper Hoffman]

Good question. Because a lot of people mistake it for the plains people because they think it's people that are out on the plains and it's not. So plain people is a term that's very commonly used within the church and then outside of the church to describe members of the conservative Anabaptist churches. So that would be conservative, Amish, Mennonite brethren, a little bit of maybe like the Hutterites, but yeah. So the plain people, it ties into wanting to be separate from the world. So they want to be viewed as plain and simple. So the plain people is just a nice little umbrella term to kind of include all those churches.

[Lola Blanc]

Do they talk to each other? Like, in my head, the Amish people don't like Mennonites. You know what I mean?

[Megan Elizabeth]

You're thinking like of a like west side Story kind of thing where they hate each other, but they sound like they kind of have a lot in common.

[Jasper Hoffman]

They do. I will say that any cult or any church is a lot like lasagna, where it's pretty much all the same ingredients, but everybody has their own little unique flavoring. And everyone thinks that they are the winner of the potluck for sure. Yeah. So they do talk to each other. And it's very common to for churches. Like, if you'll leave Amish, then they'll go to Mennonite, or some Mennonite will end up going to Amish. And then there's kind of. To make it even more confusing, you have Amish, Mennonites. Oh, okay. So you just kind of have every branch that you could possibly want to go into.

[Lola Blanc]

Right. Okay.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Wow. Yeah, I didn't know that.

[Lola Blanc]

Well, I'm so curious about the ins and outs of the different ones. But firstly, let's start with the one that you were in. Also, something so fascinating about your story is that you were not born into it. Your parents converted. So. So what was going on with your parents before this happened? How did this transition Happen.

[Jasper Hoffman]

It's funny, I had a conversation with my mom at breakfast over this because she was like, did you tell anybody, like this portion of it? And I was like, no, that's your story. So I try to keep their stuff for their own telling, but ultimately, as an adult now I'm in my 40s and it changes the perspective of looking at your family joining a cult versus when you're in the experience. So I look at them as individuals, not only as my parents. And I really think that what was happening, obviously we didn't have social media back in the, you know, up until recently, so it was more difficult to connect with people that had common lifestyle goals as you. And my mom grew up in Hollywood, she went to private French school, she grew up in Rolling Hills, so she went to school with Jodie Foster, Christie Brinkley. So it's like not people that you would think would want to start quilting per se.

[Lola Blanc]

Opposite world.

[Jasper Hoffman]

Yeah, okay, totally. And she was a punk rocker, so she was like really into alternative living, which kind of makes sense when you think about joining into a cult because it too is alternative living and it's just not going mainstream. So I think there was always that, that attraction there for something that was like a little bit unique and different. And my parents met in college in Northern California in Humboldt county at hsu and my dad was an anthropology major, my mom was studying history, so they were very fascinated with culture also. And they ended up getting married and lived in Southern California where I was born. And by the time I was three, they realized they didn't want to raise me in the city and so they moved back up to Humboldt. And if anybody knows anything about Humboldt county, it is hippies, lots of weed, and very alternative, off the grid living. And so it should come as no surprise that in the early late 80s, early 90s, there was this very large movement which we see today with the tradwife movement. But there wasn't social media to really drive that and to curate that. So instead it was a lot of homesteading and a lot of people that were pulling their children out of public school to homeschool them way before it was became accepted like it is today. So I was a product of that. So I went to public school through third grade and at that time there was some changes in the family dynamic. My grandfather passed away and so my mom, who was a self proclaimed atheist punk rocker, made a promise to her father that she would take me to church. He was devout Catholic and so she started attending a non denominational church. With me. And at this point, I was nine years old, so I was in third grade. And through this non denominational church, we were introduced to the homeschool group that was there. And it was large. I mean, we had several families. So the variety was there, whether it was somebody that was secular, that just was anti government, or it was this fundamentalist movement with conservative Christians. So it was kind of like you could fall into the spectrum. And so it was very welcoming for my parents. I feel like at that time.

[Lola Blanc]

What is a homeschool group? Like, it's just a smaller version of school then at that point.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Right.

[Lola Blanc]

How does it work exactly? I was homeschooled for part of my schooling as well.

[Jasper Hoffman]

It was very organized. So we had a secretary, we had somebody that was curating different field trips. We had lots of learning experiences. The families really connected and got together. So, yes, in a way, we were not all studying together. Right. So we were within the home, doing our own schooling and had our own curriculum based off of a family's needs, which is what ties into how we were introduced to Mennonites. But for community and connection, there was a lot of support whenever it came to doing field trips and to doing a lot of things. So you weren't just isolated, kind of on your own.

[Lola Blanc]

Right, right, right.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. I will say I remember, like, playing a softball team in high school. That was the homeschooled team. And I was like, this is gonna be a piece of cake. And they, like, beat our asses. Very organized system, the practicing. Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

In high school, I was in the. I was in a homeschool program in Burbank, in la. But it was like, a lot of, like, actor kids. So it wasn't. It wasn't like, that organized. And I went to homeschool prom, and it was the worst. It was so bad.

[Jasper Hoffman]

Nobody knew each other.

[Lola Blanc]

It was so awkward.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Were you voted homeschool prom queen?

[Lola Blanc]

Of course not.

[Jasper Hoffman]

I left early.

[Lola Blanc]

I was like, I feel so alone. Anyway, so I. I feel you. Okay. So.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Well, I. I'm just so curious of. Of how it felt to be a third grader with these parents who are seemingly so cool, and then all of a sudden they're like, wait, we're doing this now? Like, what were you thinking and feeling?

[Jasper Hoffman]

I. I liken it a lot to just being boiled like a lobster. So you have no idea, really what you're getting into with this. And I was. I was nine. All I wanted to do was ride horses and not have to sit in school. Exactly. So to me, they did they did ask me, my parents did ask me if I would be interested in being homeschooled. So I did have some autonomy at that point and a voice, I feel like. And, and so at that time it sounded fun. So initially it was great. And the only thing was, is I just remember there being a lot of contention in the home because my parents are artsy fartsy and all of a sudden we're trying to learn math and having somebody, you know, everybody hates math in the family. And so I just remember it being a lot of arguing over like science and anything that just didn't come naturally for us and it was difficult. So through that homeschool group though, at the time there were not a lot of supporting textbook companies. So we had Abeka, Christian Light Publications, there was a few other that were coming, like from Bill Gothard, more fundy type of things.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Booklets.

[Jasper Hoffman]

Yes, exactly.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Oh.

[Jasper Hoffman]

So and the nice thing about, I guess, homeschooling is that you can kind of pick and choose your curriculum based off of how you want to teach your children. So one of the textbook companies was coming out of Crockett, Kentucky and they are called Rod and Staff and they produce the text, most of the textbooks used in Amish and Mennonite schools. And a lot of homeschool families like how simple it is to teach out of the Rawdon staff books. They make it very easy. So a lot of the families were sourcing their books from Rod and Staff to the point where Rod and Staff had reached out to the secretary of the home school group to see why, because obviously there wasn't a church out there. And so they were trying to get a little bit of a feel for the area. And so they had asked if they sent missionaries there to do a revival week long service of Mennonites, would there be interest? Oh, so there was. And my parents were like, I'll never forget, my mom was like, oh my God, those are the people that make the quilts. Yes. So we ended up hosting a family. They sent missionaries down from Alberta, Canada and up from Farmington, New Mexico.

[Lola Blanc]

Wait, what does revival week mean? Really quick. What does that mean?

[Jasper Hoffman]

So really like from what I remember being that age, it was pretty much church service every like evening, evening service. And I think they were just gauging what the opportunities were and what the interests were if, if it was worth sending and establishing a pop up church there, which there was. So they did. So my parents are one of the founding families to bring Mennonites to California.

[Lola Blanc]

What a claim to fame.

[Megan Elizabeth]

So These revival people come and they're bringing their books and their things, and you're going to church every night, which, P.S. sounds like my worst nightmare. And you are like, this seems weird or cool or interesting or.

[Jasper Hoffman]

I. I think at that time. Well, I mean, to be fair, the week prior to that, I had a horse that kicked me in my face, and so I had a hole through my face.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, my goodness.

[Megan Elizabeth]

That's important to note. So you're in a weird state of mind.

[Jasper Hoffman]

Literally. Yes. So I literally was like. Had to miss some of the revival because I was just, like, laid up with my face, like, completely just massacred. So there was that going on. But I remember just being intrigued.

[Lola Blanc]

I mean, it doesn't.

[Jasper Hoffman]

I was nine.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jasper Hoffman]

Like, you know.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah.

[Jasper Hoffman]

And I'm going with other children that were in the homeschool group, so it didn't seem like I was really at odds. And so I just really don't think that I had a full understanding of what was going to be required of me.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Jasper Hoffman]

And there is. It's the love bombing phase of any church, I believe, and any abusive relationship where everything just looks so pretty on the outside. And to boot, they have amazing food. So you've got great food. You have, you know, everything is, like, just very warm and comforting, and it feels fun. And provided a lot of structure for families in the area that had a lot of dysfunction within. Because I think naturally people are drawn to these authoritarian, high control, high demand religion because you guys know there's something internally that's not being met, a need, and people don't know how to source that from within. So they're looking for a guidebook. So typically, people that were joining in were coming from very financially irresponsible families, people with a lot of dysfunction, mental illness, abusive homes, alcoholics, you know, any addicts. They're just naturally kind of flocking to this structure. Especially conservative churches because they have a guidebook telling you what to wear. Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

Here's your framework for life.

[Jasper Hoffman]

Totally, literally. So it takes all that guessing out of it and the responsibility, too, if things go wrong.

[Lola Blanc]

Right. So Amish people do not use electricity. What about men and nights? Or, like, explain that, because I feel like it's gonna be a question.

[Jasper Hoffman]

It's really not black or white, because why make it easy? So a lot of Amish do have electricity and phones and technology. Not all do.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Okay, okay.

[Jasper Hoffman]

Not all Mennonites do.

[Lola Blanc]

Okay, okay.

[Jasper Hoffman]

So you have some Mennonites that are even more conservative than Amish. And interestingly enough, like, the work that I do now because I'm actively working within conservative church churches, and especially I've been in Ohio for the last two and a half years working in old order Amish communities. And they are all in agreement that I grew up more conservative than they are currently as Old Order.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Interesting.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, wow.

[Jasper Hoffman]

Yeah. So just because it's Mennonite doesn't mean, like, it's the hundred calorie pack snack pack of the Anabaptists. Like, it still is in some ways more conservative.

[Lola Blanc]

Right. So I'm picturing, like, oh, there's a revival week. We're gonna all play. What's the word that I want? Little House on the Prairie.

[Jasper Hoffman]

Oh, yeah. It's cosplaying Little House on the Prairie in a lot of ways. But don't we see that today with the Trad Wife movement?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Certainly.

[Lola Blanc]

Right, right, right.

[Jasper Hoffman]

It's the same stuff. It's just you're not putting it online for people to, you know, and promoting it and getting discount codes on protein powder.

[Lola Blanc]

Right.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I saw my mom my whole life in, like, very long dresses, the hair up. We were often mistaken for Mennonites, actually. People would think that we were a lot. But I can't imagine having a mom who was punk rock who changed, like,

[Lola Blanc]

yeah, what an arc.

[Megan Elizabeth]

What was that evolvement? What did it look like?

[Jasper Hoffman]

It was gradual. So my mom was always really into vintage clothes from. So she used to shop vintage in Hollywood before it was cool.

[Lola Blanc]

The vintage clothing pipeline. Yes.

[Jasper Hoffman]

So she always dressed a little. She was never in pants ever. But it was always really cute, like, cool things from the 50s, you know, 40s, 50s. So to see her just kind of naturally go into, like, wearing jumpers and things made sense. It wasn't so extreme. And I think I also have a hard time separating, like, my own experience to think about what. What it was like to watch my mom. Because I know for me, what was the most difficult was slowly having to lose my identity at that age by things, you know. So, like, my clothes were slowly. I was not allowed to start purchasing pants. And I always hated dresses. I was such a tomboy. And so it was like the slow progression of, like, losing access, like, to tv. Yeah. But we still really maintained because it was a mission church and it was a little bit more liberal than the one I ended up in later on. I think there was a lot of leniency towards us as we were looking at joining into the church. They weren't. It wasn't like we were coming into something established Right. Where, I mean, the majority of people that were attending were not Mennonite. They were interested in joining in. So there was like not the strictness that you. I found later on.

[Lola Blanc]

Right.

[Megan Elizabeth]

There's always leniency when you're love bombing people.

[Jasper Hoffman]

That's it.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah.

[Jasper Hoffman]

But then I look back, I look back with a lot of empathy though, on the first family that came to California, thinking about how overwhelming that must have been for them coming from growing up in the church and then suddenly having to sell their dairy, sell everything, and then end up in northern California with 30 families constantly at their house that are so dysfunctional, wanting their lives to be fixed by this one family. I mean, the amount of pressure that that must have been on them, it was a lot because I know some of the families that were there were really, really messed up in, in a lot of ways. And they look to the church to save them in a way. And the church being two families. Nyx, that's K N I X.

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[Lola Blanc]

Okay, there's a revival week and you're going and your parents are like, ah, actually we like this. Actually we like this so much we're going to try to start this church here. So how did that transition happen into like we are full time Mennonites? Because that's a big leap, you know,

[Megan Elizabeth]

halftime to full time, part time to full time.

[Jasper Hoffman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was a course of about three years, I would say, of gradually kind of becoming more and more established. But what my, my parents realized is that they wanted to go to a more established church. My parents really, in comparison to a lot of the other families, really had their shit together. They were financially really smart. They were pretty level headed with a lot of things. We, we weren't needing a lot from like the Mennonite families to provide support. And so I think they realized they wanted to go to something that kind of met them where they were at. So that looked like moving sight unseen to the Midwest, which was very difficult for me. That's when things started to get really hard around the time I was 14. So there's a church directory for all the churches and you can look it up and it will tell you all of the members that are in a particular church, who the bishop minister, everything, their children, who they've married, and phone numbers. So we began, my parents began looking for property that was conducive to all of their goals as far as homesteading. And they found an area here in southern Illinois and it just so happened that there was an established church with a school, but it was a more conservative Mennonite church. So it was kind of like a step up.

[Lola Blanc]

That's not till you're 14 though, right?

[Jasper Hoffman]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

So there's a chunk of time where you're living a Mennonite lifestyle in Northern California and it's not this like super conservative version yet, correct?

[Jasper Hoffman]

Yeah, I feel like it's like still kind of. I was having fun. I had my girlfriends and we were riding horses and I was still being homeschooled. I didn't go to Mennonite school.

[Megan Elizabeth]

It was Mennonite light.

[Lola Blanc]

Yes, men and light Menon light.

[Jasper Hoffman]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

I heard you tell a story on a podcast about you coming home and your belongings were gone.

[Jasper Hoffman]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

When did that happen and can you tell us that story?

[Jasper Hoffman]

That's really like when we're starting to move because they've made a decision that we're moving. And at that time, like, I was volunteering at a local vet clinic because I was always very interested in animal science and horses, and I wanted to be a vet. And so this is where things started to kind of rift because I knew that I wanted to pursue some sort of higher education that I was not going to get in the Mennonites at all. And so around that time when they decided to move, that's when I was coming. Came home and, you know, everything's gone pretty much. Like, we don't have a TV anymore, and we're not listening to musical instruments and we're making the shift. And then when we moved, that's when everything was really perched because we were not taking anything with us.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, wow.

[Jasper Hoffman]

Like, my grandfather's player piano was. And that was like, my last piece of, like, connection to what I wanted, you know, I wanted to learn how to play the piano. And that was taking. And that was really, I think, really hard.

[Megan Elizabeth]

That's awful.

[Jasper Hoffman]

I know. Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

It's like everything you have an emotional attachment to or that, it's like part of your identity is just, like, gone.

[Megan Elizabeth]

It's gone. If I would come home from whatever homeschool or church. I guess you don't come home from

[Lola Blanc]

homeschool, from playing with your friends, from

[Megan Elizabeth]

beating people at softball, and, like, all my books had been gone as a child, I would have gone feral, insane. Like, absolutely would never recover.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah.

[Jasper Hoffman]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

What's the expectation of, like, what you do with your days then after that?

[Jasper Hoffman]

So the whole focus then shifts to learning how to be a keeper at home. And that was always really kind of like, there. Right. The subtleties. The difference was, is that I never molded into the good keeper at home. Gentle spirit girl. Because all I wanted to do was be outside riding horses.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Jasper Hoffman]

Yes. That was it. And so I very much rebelled and was able to rebel a little bit with that and still kind of get away with it and ride. But when we started packing up to move, I had no choice in the say and had a lot of trepidation. I remember. And yet you're stuck. Like, when you're 14, you can't get out of that. You're just a product. You just gotta. It's awful feeling that helpless up until that point. I feel like it was just a gradual. Well, we're just not gonna turn the TV on or we're not gonna, you know, listen to our music anymore. But the reality really sunk in, and there's no coming back from that, too.

[Lola Blanc]

Wow. So you land in this new area, in this new church and new Mennonite

[Jasper Hoffman]

school, like new state.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah. What's the new lifestyle then? What's happening every day?

[Jasper Hoffman]

Well, so at that point, we moved in August, two weeks before I started Mennonite school for the very first time, which was ninth grade. I mean, I'm like a seven layer dip of education because at this point, I've been public school, I've been homeschooled, and now I'm going to Mennonite school. And the adjustment for that is really hard because I'm, you know, going back into a school setting and all of this church is established. You know, the girls my age, they've all grown up together. They've never had somebody come in from the outside, like, at their age. They had sent me letters prior to moving, welcoming me, saying they were excited. Like, I had all these girls that were reaching out. So that made me feel a little bit more comfortable. Like they'd sent me photos of what they looked like. And so we moved in and I started school two weeks later. And it was a really large learning curve for me. I was the only girl in ninth grade, and there were only two of us in ninth grade. Oh, oh, whoa.

[Megan Elizabeth]

So there's another boy.

[Lola Blanc]

There's a boy.

[Jasper Hoffman]

Yeah, there's a boy who was not very welcoming. And so Mennonite school is different where they have the upper graders in one classroom together with the lower grade. And then depending on the size, sometimes they'll have like the middle grade, like 6 and 7th. But this one we had 7th through 10th all together in our classroom. And in Illinois, they go state by state. They abide state by state laws as far as the age of how long they can stay in school. So in the state of Illinois, it was 16 or 10th grade. So that's as high as the school went.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Oh, wow.

[Jasper Hoffman]

Like, I'll never forget walking into the library, the encyclopedias were missing pages. Oh, they were glued together. They were blacked out with marker. Anything that had to do with science, psychology, things that I had been raised around. And so it started right out the gate, like, feeling very, very. A lot more serious and a much larger opt in in order to be here.

[Lola Blanc]

So they wouldn't be a science textbook. So what textbook would they be blacking out even?

[Jasper Hoffman]

Well, they had the textbooks, but they were from Rod and staff, remember? So everything was church approved, but it was the encyclopedias.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, the encyclopedias.

[Jasper Hoffman]

Anything that had. Yes, that came from outside information.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Oh, my gosh. Imagine that being your job to go through an Encyclopedia and blackout. That. That makes me.

[Lola Blanc]

Don't learn that.

[Megan Elizabeth]

But yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, my God.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Ooh.

[Lola Blanc]

You're like cell. Oh, I see something about molecules. That's the devil.

[Jasper Hoffman]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

Crazy.

[Jasper Hoffman]

Yeah. That was hard. Like, it was immediately. As soon as we got here, it was a whole different ball game of seriousness, I feel like. And expectations on me.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah.

[Jasper Hoffman]

Which up until that point, I had not. And that's really difficult to move at that age to begin with and then all of a sudden have to be forced into compliance and changing. We obviously moved into a more conservative church, so there were rules, and it was like I had to abide by them. It was a really difficult learning curve. And I was in trouble a lot with the.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Me too.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah. Well, you guys were more rebellious than me. I was so scared of authority, but

[Jasper Hoffman]

I. I was too. But the thing was, is, like, I didn't know what the authority was. Right. So I was innocently, like, messing up. And then there's all this pressure because you're coming into a. It's like the Lord of the Flies, where, you know, you were. I was a huge threat because I came from the unknown territory of the world. Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I will say that there is this stage, too, that I've witnessed. Maybe you'll agree, maybe you won't. But, like, when a family joins a high control group, at first they're love bombed. Right. And then once they do join it, the expectations on them are suddenly higher than other families and you're required to, like, extra prove yourself. So you've gone from, like, them being very, you know, oh, it's okay if you do that. Like, you're transitioning, you're learning to, like, suddenly you're this example to the people inside of people from the world joining, and you have to be extraordinary.

[Lola Blanc]

I feel like I saw that in. Even in Mormon church, too. Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. I don't know if you thought it was your experience, but it is.

[Jasper Hoffman]

And I see that, like, podcasting too. It's like, one of the ways that people from the inside of the church will try to diminish what my experience was is by saying that I wasn't born Mennonite, so I'm not really Mennonite, and I didn't experience what it was like to be Mennonite. And I like to remind them that anybody that joins into these actually has a much harder life because you are always proving your worthiness for citizenship. It's pretty much, you know, trying to come into a foreign country and learn the language and learn all of the nuances. Of the culture and then having to prove always that you are worthy of citizenship. So it is. They're even more difficult on people that join in and the pressure also then if you have parents that haven't learned how to self regulate and they're joining into these cultures anyway, they don't have a cutoff switch and valve of like, I don't need to prove myself. Like, I've done enough. I'm in church compliance. There is still a need to feel worthy and approved and needed. And so that doesn't change when they join into these classes cultures. What it does is then it fuels them into going more and more and more conservative because they're still trying to earn approval from some sort of authority. We've just switched out the parent role to now the church being the parent.

[Lola Blanc]

Right.

[Jasper Hoffman]

So it's very common for families to stay at a church for a little bit and then they'll go to a more conservative one and then a more conservative one. And before you know it, they don't have cars and they don't have paneling on the walls. And that's. I've just seen that pipeline. Right. It started with the punk rockers and then it just.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah. Crazy.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Do they live on compounds? I can't remember, like the Amish. Do they live together or.

[Jasper Hoffman]

So they don't, but they live close by. And really from the Amish perspective, it makes sense because of transportation. Right. So they, they cannot drive cars. They can own cars, but they can't drive them. That's the loophole. So if you have a. If you have a child that doesn't isn't a church member yet, they can drive you in your family car.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Oh, man.

[Jasper Hoffman]

So they will live close by just for the proximity and the ease. And then Mennonites, we, we live around each other, but not necessarily on a compound.

[Lola Blanc]

Did your family drive?

[Jasper Hoffman]

Yes, we had vehicles.

[Lola Blanc]

Okay.

[Jasper Hoffman]

Only church approved and church approved colors. Oh, what were the colors?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Beige, black. Black. That's like a cool color.

[Lola Blanc]

I know. I was expecting, I don't know, gray. Yeah.

[Jasper Hoffman]

Yeah. So you can have black, navy, and some more subdued plain colors.

[Lola Blanc]

You can't show up in a bright yellow.

[Megan Elizabeth]

No.

[Jasper Hoffman]

Or red. Like, God forbid.

[Lola Blanc]

No. Yeah, yeah.

[Jasper Hoffman]

And you had to have church approved cars and vehicles. The tires had to be church approved. You couldn't have any chrome. You had to cut off your antenna.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Oh, same. We, the. If we didn't cut off our antennas, the workers would snap it.

[Lola Blanc]

Why?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Because that's the radio. Oh.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, my God.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Wow. Yeah.

[Jasper Hoffman]

And you don't want people to know that you are. Could be possibly listening to the radio and that it would cause somebody to stumble into sin.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, I forgot about antennas, you guys. I forgot what they. What purpose they served.

[Megan Elizabeth]

To be fair, everyone has.

[Lola Blanc]

So when you're in school, your daily activities are. They just like, okay, and now we're washing the clothes and we're baking the pies and, like, what's expected of you?

[Jasper Hoffman]

No, we actually had curriculum and. And in some ways I liked it because it's like our math class was. I mean, they taught you how to do taxes and balance a checkbook and things that I feel like are kind of.

[Megan Elizabeth]

That's amazing.

[Jasper Hoffman]

Oh, there are a lot of great that you can learn in the school. But. Yeah, no, it was very, very, very regulated, regimented. And we also obviously had to recite Bible verses and things. So there was the spiritual component as well. But, no, I mean, it was. It was a very structured school, for sure. And we had recess. We were, for a time, being allowed to play coed softball. Volleyball. That was always really. Volleyball is controversial. Yes. You know. Yeah, it's like. I don't know why. It's like the gateway to sinning.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Well, because. Because they know you're gonna head to the beach someday and do it. They know that. That volleyball. You're gonna say, I wanna play on

[Lola Blanc]

the beach in a swimsuit.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And then somebody's gonna say, I need to be in my swimming suit. Very common. Two by two. Redrick as well. What do we do? They want to play volleyball.

[Jasper Hoffman]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

Okay. So the school is. Has some. Some things that are. It's like, not.

[Megan Elizabeth]

No, I should go to the school.

[Jasper Hoffman]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Teach me how to do my taxes. Yeah, I need to.

[Lola Blanc]

But in terms of, like, the expectation of you as a teenage girl and what your future is going to look like. Like, what is the track that you're expected to be on?

[Jasper Hoffman]

Right.

[Lola Blanc]

So it's.

[Jasper Hoffman]

It's just very. I mean, obviously we're being trained to be housewives. So, like, you would look at your math and it would be like your math questions were all about, like, cutting recipes or adding, you know, to different things, which are phenomenal. I still use that today. So everything was very geared towards, like, what your career path was and then just making sure that you were like, I learned how to type. We had typing class because correspondence within the Mennonite communities is huge. Everybody always is doing letters and so. And we had art, and it wasn't awful. Like, we obviously all cleaned the schoolroom once a week. Like, and the girls had the job of like, cleaning the bathrooms and the baseboards and everything. And it was very much a community thing. And that was expected. And probably it's child labor, but also that was your skills. Right. So you kind of chipped in as a community and worked together to maintain your environment, which is a big part of the community still, how they are. The thing was, is that there was a lot of discipline that was happening also in the school. And so there was the basement. And you would hear children being beaten if they were out of line. And that was hard. And so you just tried to stay out of the basement and stay in compliance with what was expected of you.

[Lola Blanc]

What kinds of things would get you sent to the basement?

[Jasper Hoffman]

My brother got in trouble for. There was a school meeting called because he was using slang and he was saying, you guys. Seeing the word guys is so a lot of vernacular.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Wow.

[Jasper Hoffman]

If you were not listening to the rules, you just had to be very, very obedient. Could not question anything and, you know, no lying, obviously, or being distracted. But yeah, they knew what was expected of them too. So they tried to really maintain the discipline in the school that they would have at home too. Right.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Were you ever taken to the basement?

[Jasper Hoffman]

I was not. I was too old for that. But I wasn't allowed to come back to school the following year.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Oh.

[Lola Blanc]

What?

[Jasper Hoffman]

So, yes, I was. I was not. They did not want me to come back. They had too many problems with me. So I only. I finished my education in ninth grade. That was pretty much it for me. Wow. What?

[Lola Blanc]

What did you.

[Jasper Hoffman]

Why?

[Lola Blanc]

Because you were questioning too much. Like, what? Why were you not allowed to come back?

[Jasper Hoffman]

Yeah, I think so. And I was too, too familiar with the boys. I was too friendly.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, that would be my problem too.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I was just gonna ask you. And I was like, because I'm just picturing myself as a 14 year old girl. I'm like, were there cute boys here? Because that would have made it different for me.

[Commercial Announcer]

Okay.

[Jasper Hoffman]

I mean, what I thought were cute. It's so funny because still to this day I'm like, I just like a Mennonite looking guy. And my friends are always like, really? I'm like, listen, I just love a clean cut guy that looks a little culty.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, I understand, I understand. Okay, so you're like a little too familiar, like Chatty Cathy with them and you're not supposed to be.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, yeah. There were people in my church who thought I was a bad influence when I did absolutely nothing wrong ever. But just because I Would, like, talk to boys too much and wear cute outfits. Yeah.

[Jasper Hoffman]

I was caught writing notes to boys, and it was. But it was like, I was 14 and I. It wasn't anything bad, but it was just like, that was the only way that you could communicate. And I'm like, I wanted to be friends with the boys just as much as the girls.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah.

[Jasper Hoffman]

The boys were more interested in what I was interested in. I didn't want to talk about, like, sewing. I wanted to talk about farming. So I was caught writing notes, and I wouldn't stop writing notes.

[Megan Elizabeth]

That's iconic.

[Lola Blanc]

And they're like, okay, you're done learning too many notes.

[Jasper Hoffman]

Yeah, you can. You can write too. Well, absolutely not.

[Lola Blanc]

That's crazy. So what did that feel like then, if you're not allowed to go back to school?

[Jasper Hoffman]

School, I think, like, really, like, there was just a combination of a lot going on at that time because I had also applied for membership because I. The girls were at that time, and there was. There's such a peer pressure to, you know, at the time when you were wearing your hair down and braids. I just wore one braid, which was also the rebellious thing, instead of wearing two braids, but I wore one braid. And all of a sudden, all of your peers at revival, so they'll have fall revival service. And so the girls were, one by one, like, starting to wear head coverings because they were standing up to become Christian and then applying for membership. And so I succumbed to that because, you know, what do you do? I wanted to fit in. I wanted to be accepted, so I did that as well. And then the amount of pressure, then when you're in instruction class, which is very similar to Catholicism, where you take instruction class for a year before you're baptized, now all of a sudden, if you're coming into the church, there's even more scrutiny on you and there's more pressure improving. So I was just trying to really, at that point, from that age on, fit in. And the microscope was on me even more. So when I didn't get asked back to school, there was also other things going on. And it's performance driven, you know, that it's you. I mean, it's not. But the church makes it feel like it's you. And so you're proving, proving, proving, proving that I'm worthy, I'm worthy, I'm worthy. And there's a lot of gray area, and they'll move the carrot around quite a bit for you. So it's psychological torture. And then on top of it, then to find out that you're not allowed to come back to school and when you're trying to fit in with your peers is mortifying and very humiliating, which is why they do it. So it was just another form of psychological manipulation, and it really was not great for my mental health. But then there was this flip side of, like, you know, well, I guess I'll help my mom and try to become, like, the best housewife possible in training.

[Lola Blanc]

So you're still. You're still bought in. Like, you still, like, think this is the correct lifestyle.

[Jasper Hoffman]

Oh, yeah. But at this point, like, bought it hook, line, and sinker.

[Lola Blanc]

Right.

[Jasper Hoffman]

And so it was just. I was literally immersed in it and was trying to be the best Mennonite possible. There was never any point where I was like, this is baloney. Right. And I have my journals. I was so pious, y'.

[Lola Blanc]

All.

[Jasper Hoffman]

Like, I was so nauseatingly. Like, I have one entry where I was, like, sitting in the airport, and I was just like, these people. I was praying for them, like, my journal as they were. You know, these women were working and traveling for work, and I hoped that God would intervene.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, my gosh.

[Megan Elizabeth]

But it's sweet of you, and you're in your own way.

[Commercial Announcer]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

You know, care about that.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Jasper Hoffman]

You definitely. Yeah, I did. I did.

[Lola Blanc]

So.

[Jasper Hoffman]

Yeah. So I was. I was never rebellious in the fact where that's what was so difficult, where I was, like. It wasn't like I was sticking my feet in the mud and saying, no, f this, like, and then could get in trouble with the ministry. I was trying so hard, and they were never approving of me.

[Megan Elizabeth]

That sucks.

[Jasper Hoffman]

Yeah, it does.

[Lola Blanc]

It's hard. Were you sad about, like, the loss of the dream of becoming a vet at that point? That wasn't something that was on the table for you, right?

[Jasper Hoffman]

Correct. What I ended up doing was just shifting my focus so much on becoming the perfect Mennonite girl so I would marry well. So it was like, that was my next, like, goalpost. And I still really, like, I. I ended up getting a horse around the time that I was kicked out of school. And that was also a source of contention because the girls didn't have horses. Like, they were not allowed to. The boys could, but the girls couldn't. But there was nothing in the standard book that said that the girls could not have horses. So then it became this trying to find ways to make me look like I was defying the standard book in order to back up their claims of, like, why they didn't want me to have this horse. And that was something that I did really sink my feet in. And I was like, I'm not giving up on this. Like, I can. I should be able to do this. I bought this with my own money. Like, I have worked so hard.

[Lola Blanc]

Let the horse girl have her horse.

[Jasper Hoffman]

Just let me do it.

[Megan Elizabeth]

That seems biblically accurate. The horse girl needs her.

[Lola Blanc]

And that's where we'll leave part one for today. Come back next time week for part two to hear the rest. Megan, quick question. So do you think you would join the Mennonites?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Ooh, I think I said in this interview, or maybe it's next week's, that my family was often mistaken for being Mennonite. And that was one of my least favorite parts of it was just looking so different. And I really didn't like that. So I think I would be more susceptible to cults that let you dress a little bit more under the radar.

[Lola Blanc]

That's so fair.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

I just still can never get over it will never cease to be interesting to me. How people go from counterculture to super conservative religions wild will never not be interesting to me. I mean, it happens all the time. It's so incredibly common. And every time I'm like, they went from that to that, as though it's the first time I've ever heard of that happening.

[Megan Elizabeth]

It just seems so impossible. But people do it all the time. You know, you get disillusioned and you

[Lola Blanc]

swing the other way.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, you shoot for the stars. Sometimes you end up in a cult.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, shoot for the stars.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Shoot for the stars and reach. Sometimes you might land among a cult. Put it on a shirt, please.

[Lola Blanc]

Put that on a shirt. Yeah, we should put that on a shirt.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Okay.

[Lola Blanc]

No one would wear that shirt.

[Megan Elizabeth]

No. Thank you so much for listening to another episode of Trust Me. Please rate us five stars if you are so inclined. And as always, remember to follow your gut. Watch out for red flags and never ever trust me.

[Lola Blanc]

Bye. This has been an exactly right production,

[Megan Elizabeth]

hosted by me, Lola Blanc and me, Megan Elizabeth. Our senior producer is Ji Ha Lee.

[Lola Blanc]

This episode was mixed by John Bradley.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain, and our guest booker is Patrick.

[Lola Blanc]

Our theme song was composed by Holly Amber Church.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Trust Me is executive produced by Karen Kilgarith, Georgia Hardstark and Daniel Kramer.

[Lola Blanc]

You can find us on Instagram usmepodcast or on TikTok at trustmecultpodcast.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Got your own story about cults, extreme belief or manipulation? Shoot us an [e-mail] Listen to Trust

[Lola Blanc]

Me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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