Megan Elizabeth Cox - The Remnant Fellowship, Gwen Shamblin, and the Worship of Skinny

Summary

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Trust Me: Cults, Extreme Belief, and Manipulation

Episode: Megan Elizabeth Cox – The Remnant Fellowship, Gwen Shamblin, and the Worship of Skinny
Date: September 3, 2025
Hosts: Lola Blanc and Megan Elizabeth
Guest: Megan Elizabeth Cox (Remnant Fellowship Survivor; featured in HBO's The Way Down)

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Main Theme & Purpose

In this episode, hosts Lola Blanc and Megan Elizabeth sit down with Megan Elizabeth Cox, a survivor of the Remnant Fellowship and the Way Down Workshop led by Gwen Shamblin. The discussion dives into the intersection of religious manipulation, body image, and the cultic demand for thinness as virtue. Through vivid first-person stories, Megan recounts how a 90s weight-loss movement became a high-control church, and how the obsession with skinniness was entwined with faith, ultimately impacting her life, family, and identity.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origins: Exposure to the Way Down Workshop (12:36–17:01)

• Early Introduction (13:02):
  Megan’s mother discovered Gwen Shamblin’s program when Megan was 12. The program was omnipresent in their household, with tapes constantly playing, and was embraced at their local Baptist church.

  • “We did a lot of courses in the church across the street... Her tapes, cassette tapes, were always playing all the time. Everything we did, it was about Gwen Shamblin...” (13:02, Megan Elizabeth Cox)

• Religious Framing (17:13):
  Gwen equated overeating to idolatry, referencing biblical stories to teach that any distraction from God—including food—was sinful.

  • “Overeating, you were worshiping the food... you are the Israelites worshiping that golden idol.” (17:13, Megan Elizabeth Cox)

• Lifestyle and Control:
  Even before the official church existed, the program was both a diet and a spiritual regime, becoming a foundational family activity and a guide for living.

2. The Obsession with Thinness and Righteousness (24:18–30:16)

• Extreme Control (24:22):
  Participants could “eat whatever [they] wanted” but only when physically hungry, always cutting portions and boxing leftovers. Antioverindulgence behaviors were strictly enforced, bordering on obsessive-compulsive tendencies.

  • “We had to wait until our stomach growled physically and we had to cut our food in half... It's just, it's a lot... labor intensive.” (24:22, Megan Elizabeth Cox)

• Religious Justification for Diet:
  Skinniness was seen not just as attractive, but as a visible sign of spiritual discipline and moral superiority. Prayers before every bite, cutting food into ever-smaller portions, and fasting as punishment or purification were rampant.

• Shame and Social Pressure (35:11, 37:19):
  Public weigh-ins and accountability were used to reinforce conformity, with shame and humiliation for any weight gain.

  • “I remember weighing in in front of... all those women and just feeling humiliated...” (35:11, Megan Elizabeth Cox)

3. Evolution into a High-Control Church (30:23–44:06)

• The Remnant Fellowship Emerges (30:31):
  Around 1999, Shamblin’s movement morphed into Remnant Fellowship, a structured high-control church. Megan describes strict adherence to household authority, enforced submission, and a host of behavioral rules.

• All-Consuming Structure (44:06):
  Members were required to obey a rigid “line of authority,” volunteer constantly, avoid “selfishness,” and subordinate everything to church activities.

  • “There wasn’t a moment where there wasn’t some kind of event or gathering, so they constantly kept us busy... you don’t focus on self, focus on serving.” (44:06, Megan Elizabeth Cox)

• Purity and Isolation:
  Strict modesty (appearance, hair, tattoos), constant busy-ness, and restriction from outside relationships created an atmosphere of total control and conformity.

4. Psychological Abuse and Manipulation (46:16–51:14)

• Manipulation via Guilt and Fear (46:24, 48:29):
  Guilt was used to bind members, with storms and accidents cited as God’s punishment for members’ secret “sins” (like extra bites of food).

  • “Gwen was telling us that someone in the camp has sinned, and you need to get right with God because if we were to be taken out, well, that’s your fault if you’re sinning.” (46:29, Megan Elizabeth Cox)

• Butterfly Effect Doctrine:
  Even minor infractions (a single unauthorized bite) were said to risk global or catastrophic consequences, heightening anxiety and self-surveillance.

• Absence of Self-Compassion:
  Any depression or anxiety was seen as selfishness, leading to intensified efforts to serve and erase individuality.

5. Experiences of Control, Shame, and Attempted Escape (53:05–68:51)

• Escape Attempts—The In-and-Out Loop:
  Megan described cycling between her parents (both dysfunctional), the church, and temporary independence. Every return to Remnant Fellowship was prompted by crisis and shame.

• Enforced Authority at Home (66:29):
  Even as a young adult and mother, Megan faced physical and psychological dominance (including violence) for asserting basic autonomy.

  • “I went upstairs to grab my cell phone... halfway up the stairs, I go, I’m not giving it to you, it’s mine... and then all hell broke loose.” (64:27, Megan Elizabeth Cox)

• Fleeing for Good (68:51):
  After an incident of physical control and psychological assault, Megan escaped with her infant. Overwhelmed with fear for her soul and her son, she nonetheless left, couch-surfing and seeking safety.

  • “It was terrifying...they beat it into you that leaving that message means you’re doomed... your prayers will hit the ceiling and you’re done.” (68:51, Megan Elizabeth Cox)

6. Aftermath: Shunning, Trauma, and the Deconstruction of Belief (72:14–80:25)

• Family Estrangement:
  Upon escape, Megan’s father also rejected her, intensifying her loneliness and need for stability—which led to a brief, volatile marriage soon after her departure.

• Slow Deconstruction (74:49, 76:58):
  It took Megan a decade to identify her upbringing as cultic/high control. Exposure to healthy relationships, therapy, and other cult survivor stories were crucial for her healing and understanding.

  • “It took a good 10 years... seeing how [my husband’s family] functioned as a family, I was like, oh my gosh, this is what it’s supposed to be like.... I was conditioned to be the perfect cult member.” (74:49, Megan Elizabeth Cox)

• Validation via Survivor Community:
  Listening to other survivors’ stories (e.g. Scientology) and sharing her own (through podcasts, Reddit, and supporting others) provided a gentle, essential wake-up.

7. Finding Support, Recovery, and Connection (80:18–81:49)

• Therapy & Healing:
  Megan recommends survivors seek therapy for both cult and domestic abuse trauma, due to similar dynamics of control and harm.

  • “If you can’t find a therapist who specializes in cults, find one who specializes in domestic abuse, because they’re very similar.” (79:52, Megan Elizabeth (Co-host))

• Current Advocacy:
  Megan runs a Facebook support group (“Beyond Zion”), and connects ex-members with coaches and support resources: “I’m always here for anybody to reach out through email and things like that.” (81:12, Megan Elizabeth Cox)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Gwen Shamblin’s Charisma:
  “She is charismatic as... Oh, 100%.” (29:04, Megan Elizabeth Cox)

• On the Illogic of Remnant’s Ideology:
  “God is a jealous God. He wants your love, and he'll fight for your love. Your body's a temple… being overweight is a very clear symbol of greed on your body.” (18:17, Megan Elizabeth Cox)

• On Perpetual Dissatisfaction:
  “They still looked at me... and said, ‘Well, how much more weight do you have to lose?’... I was like, I don’t know how much more I can lose. This is the thinnest I’ve been.” (41:28, Megan Elizabeth Cox)

• On the Collapse of Faith After Leaving:
  “I had nowhere to go... there was no solid plan. I just got out of there and I was crying the whole way... I thought, ‘This is it. I doomed us to hell.’” (68:29, Megan Elizabeth Cox)

• On the Power of Survivor Networks:
  “It’s almost like a gentler way to awaken that realization... hearing themselves in other people’s stories is the big thing that opens people’s eyes.” (77:52, Lola Blanc)

• On Recovery and Support:
  “Life, to me, is so much better on the other side... They say living in God’s box, God’s boundaries, is freer than living out in the world. I gotta say that’s a bunch of bullshit.” (59:47, Megan Elizabeth Cox)

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Important Timestamps

• Introduction to Megan and the Remnant Fellowship: 02:15–03:37
• Childhood indoctrination, connection to religion and diet culture: 13:02–17:01
• Obsession with thinness, rituals, and food rules: 24:18–27:32
• Meeting Gwen Shamblin, charisma, and early conferences: 27:32–30:16
• Transformation into Remnant Fellowship and control mechanisms: 30:31–44:06
• Shame, fasting, and increased extremism: 36:59–38:31
• Butterfly effect, punishment for “sins,” and psychological trauma: 46:24–51:14
• Authority, puritanical rules, and community isolation: 44:06–54:55
• Cycle of leaving and returning, shame, and self-blame: 53:05–58:13
• Final exit, abuse, and escape: 66:35–68:51
• Long-term effects and slow recovery process: 74:49–81:49
• Discussion of advocacy/peer support (Beyond Zion and Way Out to Freedom): 80:25–81:49

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Tone and Language

• The episode maintains a tone of compassion, unfiltered honesty, and at times dark humor—often punctuated with relief and gratitude for survival, as well as outrage at the abuses described.

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Summary for Non-Listeners

Through heartbreaking and candid storytelling, Megan Elizabeth Cox exposes the insidious blending of religious rhetoric and diet culture in the Remnant Fellowship and the Way Down Workshop. From childhood conditioning, charismatic leaders, and coercive community, to cycles of shame and recovery, Megan’s narrative illustrates how cultic control can shape every aspect of identity and life. Her insights on recovery, the importance of therapy, and finding community with other survivors offer hope—and a roadmap—to those grappling with the aftermath of high-control groups.

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Transcript

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

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[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

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[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Would I ever lead you astray? Trust me. This is the truth. The only truth.

[Lola Blanc]

If anybody ever tells you to just trust them, don't welcome to Trust Me, the podcast about cults. Extreme belief and manipulation from two control freaks who've actually experienced it firsthand. My name is Lola Blanc and I'm Megan Elizabeth and today our guest is Megan Elizabeth Cox Different Megan Elizabeth, former member of the Remnant Fellowship and the Way Down Workshop, whom you may have seen on the HBO docu series the Way Down. Today she is going to talk to us about how her mother joined Gwen Shamblin's weight loss workshop through tapes in the 90s, an era obsessed with skinniness. How being skinny was equated with being righteous and even the slightest overeating was considered a distraction from God. When what it was like actually meeting Gwen Shamblin and how the program evolved into a full fledged church.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

That's right. Megan will tell us about the level of control the church had over its members, eating and even their thoughts. Being forced to weigh herself during Bible study sessions. How she drifted in and out of the church during dark times in her life. And what made her finally realize she needed to leave the group for good.

[Lola Blanc]

We've been wanting to talk to somebody who experienced Gwen Chamblin in the flesh for a long time. And I'm so glad she came on to talk to us about it because what a time, what a group. Before we get into it, Megan, what's your cultiest thing of the week?

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

Well, okay, this topic brought up in me a question that I haven't asked you yet. But my cultiest thing is gonna be a question for you. Oh, okay. Ozempic.

[Lola Blanc]

Okay.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

It is now taking away the morality of thinness that we've all projected. Yes, Gwen took it to the extreme, right, but everyone in America kind of did, and in the world. Now that it's not really a quote unquote discipline thing anymore, what is happening to the cult of then? And what are we gonna see morally? I'm assuming we'll just see a lot more thin people. But what will the moral judgments about thinness evolve into when it no longer requires any discipline?

[Lola Blanc]

That is such a good question.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

I told you you would love my question.

[Lola Blanc]

So interesting.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

Thank you.

[Lola Blanc]

Well, what comes up for me is how the skinny obsession was really a 90s thing. And then that evolved into this like, still skinny, but like, have a huge thick ass and tits. Pardon my language, but like ass and tits first three minutes. And that's like the sex, subtles, aspirational body type. You know, historically, in different eras and cultures, like, you know, the wealthy were bigger because they were able to eat unlike the peasants. So that was the. The beauty standard. The beauty standard, yeah. So it makes me think that while there has been some resurgence of sort of heroin chic, you know, being the look again, it makes me wonder if that will evolve again and become something else.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

I think it just may. So keep Your eyes on it. It's a culty little live phenomena to watch.

[Lola Blanc]

It's like diamonds. I don't know why it makes me think of diamonds. Like, we don't.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

Good analogy.

[Lola Blanc]

Is it? I feel like it's a really bad analogy.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

It's just like we pick something random and said, this is super valuable because.

[Lola Blanc]

It seems hard or something.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

Now they're making them in labs, right? Diamonds. And people are like, that's not a real diamond.

[Lola Blanc]

We don't care about that.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

We want.

[Lola Blanc]

They're like, we want someone to have died for this.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

What's your cultiest thing of the week, Lila?

[Lola Blanc]

So do you remember the social media cult leader whose name I don't actually know how to pronounce, but I'm pretty sure you made it up anyway, so it doesn't matter. Benton Ho. Masaro. Yeah. Yeah. And how he had those videos of him that he would post on Instagram of him just staring into camera for uncomfortably long amounts of time. And the idea is that he's connecting with you, but it's fucking creepy. There are these GEICO commercials right now.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

Oh, my God.

[Lola Blanc]

Where the GEICO Gecko is just staring at you. And I low key. I'm like, I feel connected to him. No, this is so nice. He's looking at me. Obviously, I don't actually feel this way, but, like, a little tiny part of me is like, that's sweet. You know, he's like, what is it about even fake cartoon character or real person, prolonged eye contact that, like, feels something? I mean, it's obviously meant to be kind of funny, but I wonder if they tested that commercial and were like, yeah, eye contact, like, feel connected to the character.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

Humans are completely lacking in any connection and warmth. Let's just make the guy go stare at them. And like, yeah, we're social creatures and we need connection and eye contact is one of them. And cult leaders are so smart, they know to just, like, do eye contact.

[Lola Blanc]

Just to make you feel seen. Literally seen.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

Yeah, it's so easy once you, like, are a psychopath enough to want to exploit it.

[Lola Blanc]

Right, right. And it makes me think of my friend Steve Burns. He was the original Steve from Blue's Clues.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Yes.

[Lola Blanc]

And how he posts now on TikTok. His thing is, he's like, still being Steve from Blue's Clues, except it's for millennials. And he's like, how was your day? And it's very sweet and it's very wholesome and he's a very wholesome person. People love it and they're Like, I needed this. I needed this. Thank you. Like, they feel so connected to him.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Right.

[Lola Blanc]

We're just so starved.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

Which we'll talk about this in other episodes. But AI fertile ground. Very fertile ground.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

Remember, don't talk to anyone. You'll join a cult. But we also need connection.

[Lola Blanc]

We need connection.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

I don't know what the answer is. Just no one leave their house.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

No.

[Lola Blanc]

But then they're gonna talk to the AI people.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Oh, fuck.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

Oh my God.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

No.

[Lola Blanc]

The answer is leave your house. But Just leave it. But what if to do multiple things.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

No.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

I've lost the plot.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Okay.

[Lola Blanc]

Should we talk to Megan Elizabeth? Let's do it. Before we get into it. For listeners who haven't seen the Way down or haven't seen it in a minute. As a refresher, Gwen Shamblin was a church leader, often considered cult leader who led the church the Remnant Fellowship as well as the Way down workshop, both of which preached being skinny as God. She had very high hair. In addition to its wild teachings marketing eating disorders as virtuous, the group is notorious for encouraging the physical punishment of children. The church was raided by authorities in 2003 when an 8 year old child named Joseph Smith was physically abused by his parents to death. After being encouraged by Gwen and her husband, Joe Shamblin to use corporal punishment, including hitting children with glue sticks, the church publicly supported and paid for the legal defense of the parents who were convicted of child abuse and murder.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

So.

[Lola Blanc]

So that's the context we've never had on a guest who was actually in the group and experienced the highly controlled teachings. So today's guest is going to tell us about her experience being a young person in the group and constantly being told that she was not skinny enough.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

And before we get into it, this episode does contain descriptions of eating disorders and domestic violence, so make sure to take care while listening.

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[Lola Blanc]

Welcome to Trust Me. Megan Elizabeth Cox thank you so much for joining us.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Thank you for having me.

[Lola Blanc]

So we found you because you were on the documentary series the Way down which is about Gwen Shamblin the Way Down Workshop and the Remnant Fellowship. And for those who might not remember who Gwen Shamblin is, she's a lady with the very, very high blonde hair encouraging people to starve themselves. So can you start us kind of at the beginning of your experience with the Way Down? How old were you when your mom first started doing this program?

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

I was 12. 12 years old when mom found Weigh Down Workshop. I don't remember exactly how she found it. I just know that we did a lot of courses in the church across the street, which was a Baptist church, and then with a group of women that mom had come to know in the area that we lived in, which was like an hour north of Columbus. We did courses all the time. Her tapes, cassette tapes, were always playing all the time. Everything we did, it was about Gwen Shamblin. You know, because of that, my mom was able to quit smoking. We all followed criteria. The curriculum that Gwen laid out for, you know, if you wanted to lose weight, in turn, you strengthen your relationship with God.

[Lola Blanc]

So it wasn't the Remnant Fellowship yet, but it was taking place in a church already?

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Yes. Yeah, they were taking place in church. What happened was she came out with a controversial take on the Trinity. And she was booted out of a lot of, I think, all the churches. Really? I don't remember exactly what she said. I just know it was very offensive to a lot of churches. And so then it became, like, in homes. So it wasn't. Wasn't churches and then it wasn't homes.

[Lola Blanc]

Interesting. And your mom, you know, in the 90s, people were obsessed with being skinny. Everyone was on a diet. My mom was in the beauty pageant circuit and like, you know, same thing. Just like this obsession. Not from her, but just like her community. Like, you have to be a certain level of skinny.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

Totally. And even, like Weight Watchers meetings, I believe, were like, some in the Midwest were in churches.

[Lola Blanc]

Were they really?

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

Yeah, like a basement of a church. I don't think it was necessarily connected, but they were letting them host them there.

[Lola Blanc]

So I cannot imagine a church like. How that intersects with religion is so mysterious to me. I mean, obviously, Gwen Shamblin drew a very direct connection for herself, but bestseller too, so.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was very prevalent.

[Lola Blanc]

Were you participating at 12 years old in Way Down Workshop?

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Yes. I don't wanna say forced to do it, but, you know, voluntold, I guess it's like, advertently and inadvertently. So before we really started doing it as a family, you know, I mean, mom had it playing all the Time. It was on constantly, so we couldn't help but listen to what she was saying. Like, I still remember to this day, and this is the first time I ever, like, mentioned it, but it's at least once a day it pops up in my head. There was this really cute older woman giving her testimony in one of the videos. And she goes, I was killing time to kill myself.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

That'll stick with you.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Yeah. You know, when I was little, I was like, wow, that's terrible. Like, I never. I never had a grasp on that. But it just. I never forgot it, you know, and we would, you know, joke. Like, take little jokes like how Gwen and David Martin would eat in the videos. Like, we would play around at the dinner table eating like that. And, you know, so it was very prevalent in my childhood, whether or not I wanted it to be. It was there all the time.

[Lola Blanc]

Did your family and did your mom consider it to be a religious activity at that time, or it was just. This is our, like, diet and lifestyle.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

I would say it was. It was more a religious activity. It was. Well, obviously, no one wants to be fat. And especially back then in, like, the mid-90s, I was about, oh, gosh, like, very young then. But I hate dating myself like that.

[Lola Blanc]

But, I mean, same. Same generation.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Yeah, being skinny was everything. So that was obviously the goal. But, you know, my mom, she has her own issues, and she found a lot of healing and hope from all of that. So I think it became more of a religious thing to her. I even suspect she might have looked at Gwen as a mother figure because she really didn't have one. I remember being a freshman in high school, and we took a trip down to Brentwood and we saw the Weight on workshop and everything. And mom was talking about moving down there then, and that was before Remnant even happened.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

And this was Brentwood, Tennessee.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Tennessee. Sorry, Brentwood, Tennessee. Yeah. I apologize. No, no.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

And I just have one question before we get into that, but what was the way that she was phrasing things on these tapes that kind of married. Like, how was Gwen marrying weight and religion?

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

So Gwen would say, overeating. You were worshiping the food. So she talked about how the Israelites had to wander the desert for 40 years and rely on God for everything, even food. She equated, like, she used that story and how they built the golden idol out of, you know, all their jewelry and everything. And you being overweight and overeating, you are the Israelites worshiping that golden idol. And God had said, no idols. Basically. You can't worship anything over him. So that's how it started. And then, you know, a lot of bowing down to the refrigerator. And, you know, when you want to overeat, cry out to God and say, God, help me. Help me not want to overeat, or help me not want to take this extra bite. You know, I want to. I want to be closer to you. There was a lot, A lot of that. So she would. She a lot of videos. She would teach you how to cut your food in half, and you'd pray before. Eat very slow, small bites, and pray between each bite. You know, it was.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, so it was Jesus coded, like Christianity coded from the beginning.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

It sounds like it was also in that genre of, like, God is a jealous God and he's jealous 100%.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Yeah, yeah. She said that all the time. God is a jealous God. He wants your love, and he'll fight for your love. Your body's a temple. God gave it to you, and you only have one. So take care of it and don't be greedy. You know, being overweight is a very clear symbol of greed on your body, basically. And that's, you know, God. I think it's one of the ten Commandments.

[Lola Blanc]

So God should learn to stop being the center of attention all the time.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Yeah, God is. I know, right? God, an attention.

[Lola Blanc]

One of my best friends grew up Jehovah's Witness, and they would use really similar language just in terms of, like, things being a distraction from God. But for them it would be like holidays or like, voting or like sports. Like, they made him quit sports. Eating food, like, enjoying food, seems like such a strange thing to focus on as the distraction from God. Were there other activities or things that were considered to be distractions from God?

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Yes. So like I had mentioned before, you know, my mom had quit smoking using the tenants of the program. My mom had also said that it helped relieve her of depression. A lot of people were saying that they became better wives and husbands and, you know, better children. You know, just by applying the tenets of the program to whatever their issue may be.

[Lola Blanc]

Right. I'm curious how they would apply because, like, some of those details of, like, eating slower, praying between bites, like, how would that apply to something like being a good wife?

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

I don't know how it eventually morphed into that. But, you know, you're happier because you've lost weight. And then, you know, focusing on your relationship with God, you see cracks in other areas in your life. You know, the husband's the figurehead, and, you know, how can you be better for him. You know, that's showing how you honor.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

God and just like pointing it out. I mean, at this point you now have an eating disorder, so you do probably feel more controlled. You do probably feel like a little bit more stable and like things are probably.

[Lola Blanc]

Because it works at first.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

It works at first.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah. And that's the problem, at least to make you feel. But I'm not saying it works.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

Yeah, it works for your brain to kind of organize.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we've talked about that a little bit on this podcast how sometimes, you know, we all have this need to feel like we have. What's the word that I want?

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Control.

[Lola Blanc]

It was another one, but sure. Agency. Agency and control over our lives and how one of the areas we can see overlapping with people who've maybe lost agency after joining a cult or something. It can show up in the form of an eating disorder because it can provide that like temporary hit of like, I'm in control of something.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Oh, 100%. I can see that. Totally. Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

Seeing tangible results.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

It's. It's a very easy.

[Lola Blanc]

Right, right. If I do X thing, I'll see Y thing.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

And then you're more susceptible to being under the control of somebody like your husband because you're, because you're hungry and.

[Lola Blanc]

You'Re not thinking correctly.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Yeah, yeah, right, Exactly.

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[Lola Blanc]

I was reading the article that you wrote for Spirit Watch.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Oh gosh, I'm so sorry. You read the whole thing?

[Lola Blanc]

Oh no, it's great. It's great. There's. I was. I appreciated how much detail was, but you wrote about some of the specific stuff you said. The best part was that we could eat whatever we wanted, but we had to wait until our stomach growled physically and we had to cut our food in half. We would box up or put away the leftovers so we wouldn't be tempted to eat all of it. It's just like the level of control over your diet every day. How did that feel as a child?

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Well, I might Be an exception to the rule. Because I was pretty well used to this behavior before. Way down. My dad, stepmom were very controlling with how much food I ate. So for me, it just. It felt normal.

[Lola Blanc]

Right.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Like, you know, I hope that makes sense. But I can't speak for other people. I'm sure thinking about it now, it feels like an incredible chore. Like, you. You have to really think about every action that you take. You know, you have to cut your food in half. You've got to put it away. You know, you've gotta. It's just. It's a lot. It's a. It's labor intensive, essentially. Especially some people can't help, you know, or, like, you can't even. Like, you couldn't even think about food. Like, that was a bad. That was bad to even think about food or chewing gum in between, you know? Yeah. So it was very labor intensive. Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

I was just gonna say, like, not. I don't want to label everything, but it feels like ocd. Like you're making people have ocd almost.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah. Becoming obsessed with whether they had an incorrect thought, which would be like, that totally makes sense to me.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

It's really hard because how do you not think I don't know that reality? How do you not think about it?

[Lola Blanc]

Also, we've talked about it a million times, but trying not to have a thought is not a strategy. It makes the thought come back more. That's not how it works. Don't think about the pink elephant in the room that. You really don't wanna think about that pink elephant. So for your experience, you had already kind of been in a family that was encouraging this kind of highly controlled D behavior.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

And.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, when you've been in something like that, of course, it would just feel normal to you.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Yeah, unfortunately.

[Lola Blanc]

But did you like the program? Did you feel connected to it?

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

I liked being skinny. I like being my mom. Happy. That was good. You know, but I've said it before. I just have always had a really hard time connecting. Like, I get it. Like, I can see how it really helps. Like, Christianity in general, how it really helps people. And I just. I kind of got along to get along, you know, like, it kind of made sense. But, you know, eventually I'd be like, this doesn't make sense. You know, it. I feel weird. I feel awkward. It doesn't really fully resonate with me. I really haven't found any kind of religion that fully resonates, honestly. And that's okay, you know, but never really ever. We bought in there Was always something that would pull me out of, you know, whatever hyper fixation I was in, I guess we could say.

[Lola Blanc]

Right. Makes sense. Can you tell us about the conference where you first met Gwen Shamblin? Do you remember meeting her and what that was like?

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Yes. So. Oh, gosh, we. I remember it was a super, huge, big deal. We traveled down to Nashville to. And Gwen was really accessible back then. It was very astounding, you know, And I remember just the big conference. I don't think the conference room that we were in, it was in the Nashville. I can't remember the name of it, but it was downtown. And it was overwhelming, but in a good way. There was just a lot of people there that you knew had also gone through this program and found their joy and their relationship with God in the program. And then, like I said, Gwen being so accessible and so warm and friendly. And then getting to meet Michael, too. He was just. I think the conference we went to, he had just launched his music as well. So, you know, that was probably the biggest. You know, like, she was like a celebrity to me. We've only seen her on the tv and I was like, wow, it reminds.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

Me of like a. Bravo, Liberty. Yes. Do you know what I mean? Like, that's the context that I see it in. And, like, waiting in line to get your book signed or something is how I imagine this.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

That's basically kind of how it is. Yeah. It's like for the amount of people that were there, it was really astounding that we could, you know, get close to her and talk to her and that she was able to exude, like, genuine happiness and joy, you know, at least. I mean, she fooled me. So she is charismatic as. Oh, 100%. Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

That's what I was gonna ask. Did. Did you feel that charisma from her?

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Oh, yeah, absolutely. Right from the beginning. And again, like, I don't know if, you know, we had this woman on a pedestal because, you know, I saw what she did for my mom, and she was always, you know, in our lives, you know, for years at this point. So she's. She felt very like a very familiar person, but yet, like, you know, she's done all these amazing things. Like, she used to be fat, now she's thin, and look what she's doing, you know.

[Lola Blanc]

Right. I obviously was not a part of this particular workshop, but my mom had a lot of 90s self help tapes, and I would have flipped my shit if I had gotten to meet any of those gurus in person. Also, we were Listening to. We were listening to tapes on how to become a ventriloquist in the car. And it was the same thing where there were always these tapes playing about how to become a ventriloquist. And that is how I learned to do ventriloquism. And then we went to the ventriloquist convention.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

No.

[Lola Blanc]

Some of the ventriloquists that I had seen, like, on VHS tapes and, like, heard on cassettes, and it was really exciting. So, anyway, what I'm saying is I relate to you.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

Yeah, that would have. That would have been exciting.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Why couldn't my mom do something like ventriloquism? You know? That would have been really fun.

[Lola Blanc]

It had its own traumas and ventriloquist community.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Yeah, truly.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, my gosh. Okay, so when did it become an actual church that your family became a part of?

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

So it. Remnant started in 1999, but we. It didn't appear. Like, my mom didn't find out about it till, like, 2000-2000-2001-2002. I can't remember when the South Bend, Indiana, tour stop was her Rebuilding the Wall tour, where she was going out and, like, the Desert Oasis. She was going out and, like, talking about how she's starting this new church. She's starting Remnant Fellowship because she's noticed sin in the church, and, you know, the pastors are leading the flock astray. And I wasn't living with my mom at the time. She had went to that conference. She went with what eventually became the Satellite group, the Satellite Remnant group of Mary in Ohio. The women, too, that went. The families that went. We also had gone to church with them and did weigh down everything with them. So I was living with my dad up here where I live now. And that was miserable. I was. I was a really lost teenager. I was really rebellious. If they told me not to do something, I did it and then some. I just wanted to do what I wanted to do. I feel like a typical teenager, but, you know, there was a lot of trauma attached to it, so it might have made it worse, but I don't know. I think it was around Easter I finally decided that I had enough of living with my dad and stepmom. My dad was an alcoholic at the time, and it was just absolute miserable. It was misery every day. And I really hadn't had much to do with them since I was 12, as it were. So it was. I don't know. I just couldn't take it anymore. So when mom came and got me, she said, well, this is how it's gonna be now. We're in this new church, Remnant Fellowship, and you can't drink, you can't smoke, you can't date. You basically, a lot of lists of you can't. And I agreed to it because I couldn't live.

[Lola Blanc]

How old were you?

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

I was 18. I couldn't live where I couldn't live with my dad. And so mom anymore. It was miserable. I hated it. I was lonely. It was my senior year. I didn't have. I met people, I made friends, but it wasn't like where I grew up. So I moved back in. And then immediately we started attending the little church group in Sue Ruth's garage in Marion. And I hated it.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

Sue Ruth, That's a name.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

I can see this.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

There was something very comforting about those Midwestern eating disorder clubs that I kept going to, and Weight Watchers. Like, I don't know. I miss those women sometimes. There was a sense of control there. I don't know how to explain.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

I mean.

[Lola Blanc]

And also, it is community. You are describing a community, whatever form it is, whether it's healthy or not, when there's a group of people with a shared goal and, you know, shared lens that they're looking through, like, of course you're gonna feel connected to those people.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

So you didn't even. It's not like you were like, I'm gonna join Remnant Fellowship. You were just like, I gotta get out of here. And this is what is required of me.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Correct? Yeah. It was my only other option, essentially. Well, not essentially. It was. It was my only other option. So it was either choose to stay miserable or, you know, I guess choose another type of misery I didn't know I was walking into. You know, I was desperate. I needed to change. I wasn't there for long. I moved out. Oh, gosh. So it was, like, April 20, 2002. And then about June 2002, I had moved out with a boy that I had been sneaking out to see. I was bad, I'll admit it. But it was hard because I couldn't even, like, associate with my friends going back either. Like, I had to basically cut everyone and everything off.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

So what did it look like? What was the weekly regiment of being a member of this church?

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

So I had to complete adhere to everything my mom and stepdad said. Whatever they said, I had to say. You know, I had to do it completely submit. And I had to read the Bible. We had to do a lot of things that back then, it was phone calls on a. Like, this weird conference thing. I was in school, so we did that on Sundays. I can't remember if there was. I'm sure there's probably midweek calls or touch ins. There's Bible studies, I vaguely remember, but I know that there was every Sunday we got together in that garage and we listened to Gwen talk. She just did conference calls at that time. Oh, yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

It's so 90s. It's all so very 90s.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

It is.

[Lola Blanc]

I mean, I know we're in the early 2000s, but still.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Still very dated.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

And what were you guys weighing in? What was that process like? Like, how did you determine if you are. Because to lose weight was to be right with God and to gain weight was to be sinning. Am I surmising that correctly?

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

No, that is absolutely correct. It was always about. You're right. It was always about the weight, first and foremost, and then you dove into everything else. But I can't remember if I was over. I don't think I was overweight at that first time. I think I was. So I don't really remember being. I weighed in around that time. I'm sure I was. I'm sure, you know, that was always monitored. You know, I. I remember even before Remnant happened, like, getting on the scale in the morning and kind of, you know, logging and clocking, you know what. And doing it at night, like, watching it that way, very obsessive. But the second time, like, coming back because I didn't have a job and I think I was like, 19, I would do the weekly Bible studies with the women and we would all, you know, weigh in together. I remember weighing in in front of, like, Karen Sims and Sue Ruth and all those women and just feeling humiliated. It's very humiliating to be scrutinized like that. It's. It's hard, you know, because like I said, no one wants to be fat. No one wants to struggle with anything. You know, we all want to be our best versions of ourselves.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah. Well, and especially in an environment where you're literally being told there's something wrong with you and you're bad and sinning if the number is higher than they decided.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

And that's what I guess I'm getting at. Like, is there a certain number that once you reach. You're, like, enlightened, so to speak, you're good now?

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

No, there was never. There was no limit. So Suru's daughter moved down to Nashville, and she was thin to me, I thought. And when she moved down there, she lost more weight. So then it was being reported back that in Nashville, they were cutting their half in half. So like they would have half a bagel, they take that one half of the bagel and cut that in half. Oh, yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

My God.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

So it became even more extreme. Yeah, yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

If, you know, you guys were at a weigh in or at church or whatever, like, and the number was wrong, like, what then would happen in the group? Would there be discussion about the number being too high or, like, what was the next thing that would happen?

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Yes. So one time I vividly remember, I think it was at that same Bible study where I was weighed in. Like, I was still like very fresh into coming back after the first run through. And I was pretty chubby back then. And I remember getting on the scale. I don't remember what it was, but. But it was. Must have been. You know, it's so funny, I always come back around Easter at Remnant. I noticed that because the second time I came back it was around like Easter, AKA Passover, they celebrated Passover. So we knew there was fasting. A lot of people were fasting for Passover. And, you know, the women decided that that's what we were going to do. And they said, well, how long does God want you to fast? That's what it was. How long does God want you to fast? And I said, well, the number nine keeps coming to mind. So nine days. And I ate nothing for nine days. All to be, you know, right with God and to not be carrying this extra weight. And I remember like sneaking a little bit of V8 juice and feeling so guilty and like feeling that I failed because I was so. I don't know if you guys have done that. I wouldn't recommend it. It was awful. I felt so ill. But I came out the other side and I did it. I will never do it again.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

No, I have never done that. If the number nine came to my head, I'd be like nine minutes.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Yeah. So I worked very hard not to be in that position because I don't like being in trouble. I don't like feeling like I've disappointed someone or let someone down. So I worked really hard to always be on everyone's good side, basically. But I. There would just be like a scrutinizing of your routines and your habits and what are you doing? You know, how. What are you eating? How much are you eating? You know, you're really paying attention to it. If you're consistent with, you know, not losing the weight they think you should. Which again, it's arbitrary. It's just numbers they could make up or that you could say, well, I think I want to lose, you know, ten pounds in a month or something. You know, it's. There's no science to it or regimen, I guess, just other than you need to, you know, eat the way Gwen's telling you to eat.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

Right. Because she was kind of saying, like, you can eat whatever you want because we're now connected to God. And is it like he'll help us metabolize it differently? Is that her promise?

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Her thing was that no foods were unclean. So a lot of diets, especially back in the 90s, early 2000s, there's a lot of fat free, like snackwells, 100 calorie stuff, everything was fat free and carb free. And you couldn't do this on this diet or that on that diet. And she was basically saying, you can lose weight if you eat all those things, so you don't need diet food. Oh, well, that's. You don't need diet food.

[Lola Blanc]

You just need to eat way less of it. You just need to cut it in half or.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

And God will help you do that.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Yeah, right.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

You just have to pray the right.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

I mean, she's not wrong entirely. It's just, you know, well, sure, if.

[Lola Blanc]

You limit your caloric intake.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

And that's where she started to really big trouble, where she would compare it to kind of like the Holocaust, I believe, where she was.

[Lola Blanc]

Wait, what was that again?

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Shoot, you.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

You go, Megan, please.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

She. I don't remember this interview, but I did see it because I. Someone had mentioned it and it kept getting mentioned. I'm like, I gotta see this clip because I don't remember it. And I pulled it up and she said, well, you know, the Jews were skinny during the Holocaust. Like, she was being interviewed by Larry King. And that reference just dropped my jaw. I'm like, lady.

[Lola Blanc]

And she was saying, like, that's a sign of, like, virtue.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

Well, she's saying like, yeah, if you eat less, you're gonna. You're gonna lose weight.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Right? Jews, they were thin and it was.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

She had the Larry King interview playing on a loop in her office, correct?

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Yes. Oh, yeah. All of her interviews. Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

So this message is not only wild, but it's just being repeated and repeated.

[Lola Blanc]

And repeated well, and that's gotta make people feel like I'm only good if I'm not just like thin, but, like, starving.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Yeah, yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

Like skin and bones.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Yeah, yeah, basically. So my collarbones were sticking out, my hip bones were sticking out, and they still looked at me. And the Sue Ruth again and Karen Sims still said, well, how much more weight do you have to lose? And I was like, I don't know how much more I can lose. Yeah, this is the thinnest I've been in my entire life. I'm a naturally big breasted woman and I only lost a cup size. And, you know, my mom had said, well, your boobs are still big. And I'm like, I don't think they're gonna go anywhere.

[Lola Blanc]

What's wrong with that?

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

Well, I imagine what's wrong with that is that men were coveting after you.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Well, I mean, probably I wasn't allowed to. Being in Remnant. Like, you had to cover all that up. Like, you couldn't be flashy, like, so your hair had to be natural colors. You know, no piercings, no visible tattoos if you can help it. But I always had shirts that very well covered any cleavage. It was really tough back then to have tops long enough to cover the stomach area.

[Lola Blanc]

Right, right, right.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

That fashion didn't exist back then.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Because I have tattoos on my midsection and on my back and, you know, you couldn't show that. And you know that a lot of people think that's too sexy. So there was a lot of modest. You know, it was kind of like Christian fundamentalism. Yeah. You know, I relate to a lot of Christian fundamentalists too, like what they've gone through. I'm like, oh, that was a lot like how Remnant was as well. You could make your brother in Christ stumble. So, you know, you had to be very demure and mindful.

[Lola Blanc]

They told, they, they told us that in Mormonism too. We had to keep our. I think they've relaxed some of the rules since I was growing up, but when I was growing up, you couldn't show your shoulders at all. You couldn't wear any sleeveless shirts, obviously could not show your midriff in any way. And skirts had, you know, knee length and lower was ideal because if it didn't meet those standards. Well, one, when you went through the temple and got your temple garments, of course your temple garments shouldn't be able to show. But the other thing is that you can't tempt men because men can be tempted if you dare show a shoulder and of course the implication. Yeah, yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

Or an ankle. And the two by two.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, yeah. In your, in her group. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, we like, listen, we're. We're tempting creatures and men can't help themselves, so.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

No, yeah, no, I agree. That's terrible.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, yeah. What were some of the other kind of tenets like that that didn't directly relate to the weight loss, but were just like more of the religious beliefs.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

The line of authority. So anyone older than you was, you know, an authority figure. So if they told you something, you had to listen, which is why your.

[Lola Blanc]

Mom was in charge of your life even though you were over 18.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Yes.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

So if you're. If you're an adult and an adult is older than you, that adult is your authority.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

You got it? Yep. It's insane, you know, and. Oh, gosh. So there was a lot of, you know, the line of authority. Making sure that you are focusing on obeying the authority. Because obeying that hierarchy is essentially showing God how dedicated you are to him and how much you put him first. There wasn't a moment where there wasn't some kind of event or gathering, so they constantly kept us busy. There was a lot of volunteering. Like, you cleaned the church, you know, helped in the nursery with the kids, helped your fellow, you know, member church members watching their kids. Again, like, you don't focus on self, focus on serving. And if you, like, struggle with anxiety and depression, that just means you're being selfish. So get out there and serve your fellow brothers and sisters in Christ. Read your Bible. You know, get out there and do things, you know, serve the church.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

Sounds like we've got a perfect recipe. You're sleep deprived, Food deprived.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Yes.

[Lola Blanc]

Your time is completely consumed. Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

And completely. There you go.

[Lola Blanc]

And everything you do is a sign of your sin, basically.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

For yourself.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Anything and everything. You know, like I said, insert whatever. Like, it would be, for example, before we moved to Nashville for my 20th birthday, I got second holes pierced in my ears and I got my cartilage pierced. And I didn't think to ask my mom because I was 20. And I remember getting in trouble for that because I did not ask permission. And I was, like, so confused. And this is not to bad mouth. My mom, it's just 20 years old, and I couldn't go pierce my ears on my own accord. I had to make sure I had permission from my authority figure.

[Lola Blanc]

That's so crazy. I don't want to jump ahead, so you don't need to comment on this yet, But I can't imagine when you do finally leave the church and your parents, like, if it were me, I'd be like, oh, my God, I'm fucking free. But we will get to that.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

We'll get to that. Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

Okay. So you also wrote about this experience at the summer camp in Nashville where Gwen was.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Yes.

[Lola Blanc]

And you wrote about this thunderstorm. Can you tell us about the thunderstorm?

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Yes. So I remember going to that camp just feeling very dejected. I was trying to move to Nashville to kind of, you know, getting my own freedom and stand on my own two feet and do something with my life. And that way was blocked. I wasn't. I'd been working really hard, doing everything I was told, lost all the weight, and I was told I wasn't. I wasn't pure enough. Like, they were very obsessed with being pure enough. Like, you should be able to lay down all sin and be Jesus Christ if you. If you work hard at it and focus on God and, you know, again, obey that, you know, authority hierarchy within the church. I was feeling guilty. Like, I think I was told that I should lose five more pounds, and I was feeling awful because I didn't know how I was going to lose this weight. And then that storm blew in, and storms are really bad in that area, as it were. We didn't know this because we weren't living there at the time, but this. The storm had blown in. It was very scary. And I. I remember Gwen stopping everything, and we all were down on our faces, just laying on the floor praying to God for mercy. And, you know, Gwen was telling us that someone in the camp is sinned, and you need to get right with God because if we were to be taken out, well, that's your fault if you're sinning. So, you know, get right with God and beg for forgiveness. And, of course, I'm laying on the floor, like, freaking out, like, oh, my God, like, I can't get this weight off. And, you know, I've not been doing what I'm supposed to be doing, you know, which the goalposts always move anyway. So, like, I probably never was going to get there, but I remember that moment thinking, gosh, I can't imagine, like, taking out all these wonderful people because, you know, so it's like she really turned it back on all of us. Like, you guys must have done something.

[Lola Blanc]

To make this happen, to cause a thunderstorm.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah. What a manipulation. I mean.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

Do you think she believed any of it?

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

I do 100% feel that she believed it because that. That message came up. I know one sermon she talked about the butterfly effect, if I remember. I think she even showed parts of the movie the Ashlyn Cutsher.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

Oh, my God, that's funny.

[Lola Blanc]

Okay.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

Okay.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Yeah. And so she would say, if you are sinning, like, you need to watch what you're doing. That one bite over full could create catastrophe for somebody else.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

I can't. That is so intense.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah. In other words, the. The butterfly effect. How do we describe. If someone doesn't know what that means? Like a Gen Z person, for example.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

But the.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

The flutter of a butterfly's wings can affect an event.

[Lola Blanc]

It can cause a tsunami across the world. Like, everything's connected. Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

It.

[Lola Blanc]

You don't see necessarily the little effect it'll have on something else and something else and something else.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

So, for example, you were supposed to let your body growl, which I wanted to land on a little bit more before you could eat. Like, she was like, find your growl, I think.

[Lola Blanc]

So your stomach's growling.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

Your stomach's growling.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

And then your stomach literally had to growl. Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

That's so.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Bro.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

So wacky.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

I tell you, it's very weird that my stomach ever growls. Like, I end up getting sick when I'm hungry, you know? Yeah. Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

I get so nauseous before my stomach would ever grow. I would just be perpetually on a couch at this point. Like a fainting couch, I think.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

But, yeah, like, if you started to eat before your growl, that was probably never coming because your body wasn't built like that, then somebody in Indonesia could die, and that's the butterfly effect. And you did it.

[Lola Blanc]

Right. Like, if. If you just eat one bite too much, you could kill people.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

It's a perfect recipe for, like, the worst mental disorders I've ever heard of in my life.

[Lola Blanc]

Believable.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

Did people ever die? Like, die or get hospitalized from restricting themselves so much?

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Not that I knew of while I was in. That's lucky.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

That's a lucky chance.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Yeah. There was the one of the anonymous women who I do know, and I'm not gonna, you know, blow her cover, but she did get very ill. Like, she did. I. But that was after I had left, you know, But I. I remember her. And, you know, she was very thin, you know, and it makes sense that that all happened to her because, you know, we didn't focus on nutrition. We just focused on eating whatever the heck you wanted and do. I mean, I don't necessarily say doing whatever you wanted, but, you know, doing whatever Gwen wanted. Correct. Yeah. Like, Gwen wasn't big on, like, exercising or, like, you know, I guess, essentially taking care of yourself. I guess she figured that if you weren't eating as much, then that it just. Everything took care of itself.

[Lola Blanc]

That's the only parameter for health. Okay.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Yeah, yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

This is kind of a question that's just burning from my soul, but, like, like, was her hair just growing as her power grew?

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Like, what?

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

How was that hairstyle morphing with her?

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Yeah. So when I saw her, you know, and back in desert oasis and weigh down times, her hair was not like that at all.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

No.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Oh, really? By the time remnant rolled around, that's when the hair grew huge. And I feel like it did get bigger over the years. 100%. It did.

[Lola Blanc]

Closer to heaven.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

I mean, I've never seen hair like that. It's crazy in my life. If you have not seen Gwen's hair, you are missing a big piece of the puzzle. Google immediately.

[Lola Blanc]

Did anyone else in the church try to like imitate her hairstyle?

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Yeah. Oh, all the women.

[Lola Blanc]

No.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

All the women tried to. Oh, I even tried to tease my hair. I really taught you something. My hair can't get that big. Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

No, I mean.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

And I would have to hear for it. Right?

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

Right. No, no.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, she had bump. It's galore in there. That wasn't all her.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

My friend Laura, she did. She did her hair and she. And my mom did her. I'm pretty sure my mom. I'll have dad double check with my mom. I might be misspeaking, but I know Laura. She said it was the regimen she had. And I think she just had really thick hair. I don't know how she maintained that thick hair with the way she ate.

[Lola Blanc]

But it was all natural. Wow.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

That's what she said. There was a way she washed and dried and she include her hair. And there was a strict regimen and routine that she had to be able to get that kind of volume.

[Lola Blanc]

Fascinating.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

So that. That's just what I've been told. I don't know.

[Lola Blanc]

Well, I would trust you over my assumption that she's got ten bumpets in there.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

I mean, I guess we'll talk about this when kind of your shelf breaks, but I'm interested if there's like a point in a deconstruction where you're like, holy shit, that hair looks insane. We'll get to it. But like, I'm just wondering if there's that moment.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll get to that. Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

So you're kind of. You were kind of in and out of the church, depending on where you were at in your life. Right. Like you would kind of end up back in it.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Yeah. I wasn't equipped to be an adult. Like I wasn't given those tools. And so I kind of ping ponged between my. My dad and my mom. So if I left my mom, I Would. I would call my dad and be like, dad, I can't. I need help. Like, get me out of here. So after that camp, I think right after that is when I had decided to leave. I don't remember exactly. I think what made me finally make that decision was not being able to go to Nashville. And I said, that's it. You know, what am I doing all this for if I can't progress? Like, I can't live here forever. You know, I have to do something with my life. You couldn't even go to college without consulting leadership, you know, and getting permission from your parents. Like, it was that strict. So it was really frustrating. I'm like, I can't live like this anymore if the goalposts are going to keep moving. So I called my dad and I said, dad, I need help. Can you help me figure out how to get out of here? I can't do this anymore. And he came down and helped me move, and I moved to the town I'm in now and had a little apartment. Like, they helped me, you know, get that and get settled and gave me a car to use. And so I was living up here for a little bit. You know, I remember my first apartment. This is my first apartment on my own, you know, without, you know, anyone happened to live with me. And it was the cutest little place. And there was a cardinal on. A picture of a cardinal on the wall. And I remember writing to my mom going, you know, this seems to me like a sign from God that I'm doing the right thing. There's a cardinal in the apartment that I'm renting. And she, you know, I. To paraphrase, I don't remember what the letter said, but basically it was very much like, no, you're not. You're not under God's authority. You've left his message. You're going to hell.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

You're being deceived. I hate that one.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

I chose the world, you know, so not bad message. And of course, that fucks with you.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

You know, and it fucks with you hard, and you don't. I didn't realize at the time how much I was indoctrinated to the message. I didn't know about that back then. The only exposure I ever knew about cults was, you know, Jim Jones and Heaven's Gate. And this didn't feel like it, you know, it just felt like a really strict church during that time. I ended up meeting my oldest son's dad and, you know, got pregnant. And I remember everyone being very Upset.

[Lola Blanc]

About it, I'm sure.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

You know, I was 21. You know, I understand. You know, I mean, we weren't. We were barely together for that long, and here I am pregnant, and I'm scared out of my mind. But it felt right, you know, I knew what I had to do, and, you know, I tried to do it, but of course, you know, that doubt would creep back in. So now I'm bringing this life into the world, and I'm not right with God. I'm not in this message.

[Lola Blanc]

Right.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

What's that going to do to my child? And so that's. That's scary. And, you know, am I going to be a good mother? And it was really hard. So being 21, pregnant, and kind of the relationship, I wouldn't say was completely unstable, but we didn't really know each other, and, you know, we all had our own baggage, and it was just a mess. It was the whole thing.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

A life is hard enough on its own, and then to add these really strict belief systems in it just makes it impossible.

[Lola Blanc]

That puts you on the end of the punishment stick. That's a weird way to phrase that, but, you know, all the time. Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Yeah. I mean, I just felt like everything in my life was happening. And, you know, and they say this to you, if you leave, you know, you'll gain all the weight back. You. All of these bad things will happen because you chose to leave God's message. So, you know, I wouldn't necessarily say everything bad was happening, but, you know, I believed it. So I remember I just got to a point where I know I'd referenced it in what I wrote for Spirit Watch, but, you know, I watched this movie, Constantine. I think Gabriel Tilda Swine's character, you know, had said, you know. You know what the truth is. You know, why. Why do you turn your back from it? Or something to that effect. And I was like, oh, my God, I need to go back. So I called my mom, and we tried to convince Ben's dad, my son's dad, to come with us, but he was like, no, you know, I don't want to do that. Like, he had some sense at the end of the day, but he chose not to come back. And then I moved back to Marion with my mom and all my siblings and my stepdad. And then a few months later, I was cleared to move to Nashville, and that's where I had been, and I was back in Remnant again.

[Lola Blanc]

Wow. In and out and in and out. I mean, it makes, you know, it seems like you're following this trajectory, that's very common, which is that when you are in a place of vulnerability and need in your life, when you don't have structure or you're, you know, there's some big shift in your life or a fear of something like there, it's kind of just waiting there for you to be something to structure your life and your belief system.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Well, I became a self fulfilling prophecy too. You know, I. I believe that I was wrong in what I was doing. So, you know, eventually I'll see every little thing like you become Chicken Little and you're like, oh my God, like I'm going to hell, because I'm not.

[Lola Blanc]

You know what the two by twos.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

Do, which is interesting? They go. If something bad happens to you when you leave, they go. That was because you left. If something bad happens to you while you're in, they go. That was to teach you a lesson. And I always found that so unfair.

[Lola Blanc]

There's just.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

It's like.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

It's a loop.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Can't win.

[Lola Blanc]

And if something good happens when you leave, how do they.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

False peace.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

False peace.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

That's how.

[Lola Blanc]

Peace.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

Like you don't have real peace. You think you have peace, but it's just an emptiness. And you're right, it's a self fulfilling prophecy because you're like, like, is this not real?

[Lola Blanc]

And like, they told me I'd feel bad. Now I feel bad. They must have been telling the truth.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

And again, it's very easy to feel bad as a human being. It's very scary, 100%.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Especially if you're a woman.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

And a new mother. And like, yeah, there's a million ways to feel bad as a human.

[Lola Blanc]

And on the flip side too, they're. If they're going to tell you that you're going to feel good in the program. And of course, anytime you are in the midst of a community that's offering you structure, there are going to be moments where you feel good or they wouldn't be able to attract people.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

Huge dopamine hits with that structure for sure.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Oh yeah. The Love Bombing was always just off the charts. Like when Remnant was first introduced to me, everyone knew who I. Well, the people in our chapter knew who I was. They've known me since I was little. But like, people outside of our Marian group knew who I was because mom had been talking to me, about me, to everyone. And that was, you know, who doesn't like attention?

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

You know, and I was starved for it. So like, I ate it up every Time. And, you know, every time I went, you know, left and came back, like, I made bonds with people and, you know, and I. I believe they're all. I. I miss a lot of them. I do. And I remember a lot of the times with them very fondly. But my heart also breaks because life to me is so much better on the other side. Then it took a while to get there where I was in a good place. But, you know, even through all the turmoil and everything, like they say a lot, living, Living in God's box, God's boundaries, is so much freer than living out in the world. And I gotta say that's a bunch of bullshit. I gotta say that. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, if you're in a box, you're a box, right? There's nothing free about being in a box. And I'm pretty sure God doesn't want us to live in a box. No. How did you.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

How did the crack officially begin to form? How did you really see that this was not for you?

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Well, what was getting really frustrating for me was, you know, I'm trying again. I'm trying to prove myself. This is the last time I was in, you know, coming back. Being pregnant out of wedlock was very. It wasn't great. Like, I was. I wouldn't necessarily say shunned, but I definitely didn't get, you know, the nice things that other girls would get. Like, you know, the girls would be able to have boyfriends and. And be able to do all the things. And I had to just be sitting there with my baby. Which, I'm not going to complain. Like, I absolutely adored all those moments with my children, but there was still a level of being shunned there that never really went away. So I worked extra hard to prove to them. So anytime anything came up, I went to whatever leader I could and say, hey, this is going on. What should I do? You know, like, Ben's dad's family is contacting me. You know, my family's contacting me. What do I do? You know, how do I navigate this? And. And, you know, I would listen. I would eat up everything that they said because I'm like, I gotta really listen and apply everything they're telling me. Like, I even went to leadership to say I wanted to go to massage school. Can I. Can I do that? And waited until they told me I had to go ahead and just constant whatever they told me, you know, I. I would do. And I think what finally got frustrating, what really wore me down was, you know, I was staying at home with my son and my little brother, who they're less than a year apart. I was essentially the nanny. And the expectations weren't really laid out very clearly for me. I just. I did what I knew how to do, you know, keep the house clean, keep the babies clean and fed and, you know, take care of the other kids, cook for them if I had to, do laundry, things like that. And, you know, my sisters would try to help me, and in that helping, things would get damaged and unfortunately, always ended up being something of my mother's. And I would get the blame for it, and I would take it, and I would take it, and I would take it. And eventually there was a breaking point. And I know a friend of high. Friend of mine from high school, and again, this was the social media back then was MySpace.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Yep. I had a secret MySpace. We weren't supposed to have that. I think we did all have a MySpace at one time, all the youth in Remnant, but they found it to be bad, so they banned it. But I still kept mine. Nice rock and roll. And. And I got really good at learning how to delete histories and things.

[Lola Blanc]

Nice.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Cool. And that's how I kept in contact with everybody. And I remember a girl from high school who I used to be friends with. She had messaged me, and she's like, you're in a cult. You know, And I was like, what are you talking about, lady? This is. I'm not like, again, because the only reference we had, at least I had, was, again, extreme references. And this didn't feel like that. And I was like, that doesn't make any. I'm out in a call, but, you know, thanks.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

You know what I just realized, of course, also, you didn't. Because it was a perfect lineup of, like, time in history and this exact message where any other time in the world, if people were starving themselves that much, other people might be like, hey, this is kind of weird. But the diet culture was so strong at that exact point in time that you're not not seeing that. This is really extreme, because it wasn't.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

No. Well, again, I didn't see it because I was only involved with people in the church. I was at home all day, every day. And if I wasn't at home, I was at the church or at someone's house, you know, visiting or at the church, doing church or Bible study or whatever. I was constantly. My time was constantly being consumed by Remnant fellowship. So I didn't have an out. Like, I had the MySpace page, but I didn't have, like, other outlets. Like, I couldn't really see everything else.

[Lola Blanc]

Right. To compare it to healthier situations.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Right. So what started happening was going to massage school. People would ask me, and I would feel really awkward. I'm like, you know, I didn't want to talk about it. Cause I'm like, they might find this weird. I was like, well, if you're happy about something, it's really working for you. You shouldn't feel that way. Right? Like, you should feel happy about it. You should. It should feel natural. And, you know, I feel guilty about, you know, not because you were supposed to proselytize. You know, you're supposed to be, oh, you know, this is what I do. And, you know, eventually, like, lure people in. Like, I wouldn't talk about it outside of Remnant, but the final. The shelf breaking was so my son and my brother, less than a year apart. You know, Gabe had turned one. We were trying. I was trying to get him off sippy cups. He wanted the bottle. I, during the day, would get him to drink out of sippy cups, but my work would be undone at night because everyone would give him vibes. And I was like, oh, my God. And one of the girls packed, you know, Gabe cipher bag for church and put a bottle in there. And I got the blame for it the next day. And I just was like, I didn't do it. You know, I. I just was fed up at this point. Like, I didn't do it. And I'm sure I rolled my eyes and. Which drives my mom nuts. And, you know, then came the. How dare you talk to me this way in my own home? I am your authority. You know, who do you think you are? And then she goes, I'm going to take away your cell phone. You know, you're in so much trouble. And I was like, whatever. And I went upstairs to grab my cell phone, and then halfway up the stairs, I go, I'm not giving it to you. It's mine. I'm not doing it. And then all hell broke loose. Whoa. Yeah, I. They fought me for the phone, and I fought back. And there were marks left on me. And I called a friend back in Ohio, and I said, you're not going to believe what just happened. I'm leaving out a lot, really, with that. So, like, essentially being assaulted to take a phone. She did take the phone. I remember at one point, I'm sobbing, and she's holding my son in her arms and, like, looming over me, going, you know, you don't deserve to be a Mom, you're a bad mom because you don't obey. And that happened a lot too, is a manipulation tactic.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

It's a nightmare.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

It really, it 100% is like, he's crying for me and you know, I want my baby. Like, you know, thank you. I, it was, it's just not okay to do, you know, especially to a young, any mother, you know, but it was bad. So I called the friend in Ohio and I'm like, this is what happened. I don't know what to do. She took my phone like she's threatening to take away my son. And she said, call the cops. And I said, oh my God, no, I couldn't do that. I couldn't. There was, there's remnant in our neighborhood. There was Remnant people everywhere, you know, I, they would see. And I said, I can't, I can't call them. And again, I don't remember who, who ended up calling, but the cops came and they took pictures of, you know, there's marks on my face and on my neck. And they'd asked me what had happened. And I explained to them, you know, that she took my, I mouthed off and, you know, rolled my eyes and, you know, said I wasn't going to give him my phone. And the one cop goes, how old are you? And I said 22. And he looked at me and I said, don't, I don't want to talk about it. Because you also weren't allowed to say anything negative about Remnant because God would strike you down. Because people that belong to Remnant, you know, God's message are saints and God won't tolerate slander against his people. So I didn't want him to bring anything. I just, I don't, I don't want to talk about it. Just. I understand at this point. I just want to know, can I get my son? Can I get what I can fit in my car? Can I go? And they're like, yeah. And they managed to get my mom to come back home from work to gave me back my phone. They told her that was theft because it wasn't in her name, it was my phone. And they stayed while I just threw everything I could in bags and just stuffed my car full. And I put my. He was just over a year old. I put my one year old son in my car and drove with nothing back to Ohio. Wow.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

What did it feel like to drive away from that?

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Like, what was that feeling? Awful. I had nowhere to go. I didn't really. There was no solid plan. I just got out of there and I was crying the whole way there because I thought, this is it. I doomed us to hell. You know, this is. Oh my God. I don't know. Yeah, sorry.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

No.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

It was terrifying because that's all I had known. And you know, they beat it into you that leaving that message means you're doomed. You're going to hell. That's just. Your prayers will hit the ceiling and you're done.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh my gosh.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

And the auntie's so turned up with having a kid too, you know.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Oh, my gosh. Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

That's when it gets doubled down.

[Lola Blanc]

Then you're worried about their salvation too.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

It's a disaster.

[Lola Blanc]

So you went to a friend's place or. Where did you go?

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

So the friend that I had called, they told me to call the cops. She western needed me 80 bucks. I had like 80 bucks to get up there. And I use credit cards and stuff, which I would not recommend, kids, especially.

[Lola Blanc]

Not having a job when you're escaping a cold, you know, you do what you gotta do.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Yeah. So she was staying with a friend of hers and they let me crash on the couch. So she kind of, wherever she went, I kind of crashed with her. Was a couch surfer for a while. And then I met, I met a guy and through her and it's a really. It's very twisted and convoluted, but he. I was desperate for stability and love and every, you know, just everything I wanted, I, you know, couldn't have. I wanted a father figure for Ben, you know, I wanted all these things and he said all the right things. And then we got married immediately, like in December. I left in November and we got married like maybe a month later. So we barely knew each other. And I just thought it was so romantic.

[Lola Blanc]

It makes total sense that you would exit the situation and be flailing and be like searching for stability. And people do end up cult hopping frequently when they're in your situation. They end up in another either cult or high control group or abusive relationship. I mean, that's very, very common. And it makes total sense. Like your whole worldview, your whole framework, your whole stability in life has just been completely overturned. And especially when you're broke, which my mom was after our cult experience. And it's a nightmare when you have nowhere to go and you don't have enough money and you don't know. It's just like.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

And what somebody. That's what I mean with the dis. It's a perfect storm, you know? It really is.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Yeah. Yeah. And that's what it felt like, too. You know, it was. I think, what pushed me over the edge that, you know, and pushed me further towards that abusive relationship was my dad. I pulled into his driveway to see him, and he came out of his house screaming at me to get away and to stay away from him and his family. So I thought the whole family hated me. Now, Remnant. Do I. Did I do the right thing every time by just kind of disappearing into the night, essentially? I don't know. You know, who's to say at this point, really? You know, I could have explained something to somebody or whatever, I don't know, but I just. I didn't. I never did. I just took off. And that hurt them, and I understand if there's hurt there, but, you know, here I am with my child and you're turning me away. You know, that was really tough. Eventually they did let me come back, but, you know, it was not great either. But it was something until I was able to get up on my own two feet.

[Lola Blanc]

Man, what a journey you have been on.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

Absolutely.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

I feel like I've lived so many lifetimes. I'm very tired.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

I want to ask about how you found out Gwen had died. Like, was that. I mean, did you think of her as almost a prophet at some point? Like, what. What was that like?

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

I. I definitely felt that God was talking through her, that she really knew what she was doing. Yeah, I don't know how I feel about profit necessarily. She would be like, oh, people say that, but I'm not a prophet. But you knew she thought that, like, Right. Like one of her way down series. Like, I don't necessarily want to call it way down extreme. I think that might have been a joke. In remnant, I'm not 100 for sure. There was like a kind of a very intense way down series. And I think in that series, she talked about. She predicted nine, 11, you know, so she definitely drank her own koolaid. But I'm sorry, I think I got off on a tangent. I apologize. No, what was done to me? Is that. Was that the question?

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

I was just wondering what it was like to see this person had passed away.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

You know, it's so funny. I was just talking about this today. Fact. It was. I mourned more for the people in the plane with her than I did for her. And not in a bad or negative way, like good riddance, whatever, you know, I mean, it's good. You know, I think it was her time to go and it needed to happen. I hope she got everything she deserves. But again, no ill Will. It's just, you know, I was. It was kind of a relief, you know, knowing that she's not around anymore. Like. Like, I. I'm pretty sure I'd probably be sued by now, I. I would think at this point if she was. But, yeah, lots of people spared a.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

Lot of heartache, I'm sure.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Yeah, it was just. It was very. It was a little bit decentering because we. I had just already. I had already done my first interview with the docus for the docu series, and then all of us that, you know, participated in it or knew about it were like, oh my gosh, what are they going to do now? And I remember us all being very relieved that they still decided to go forward with it. It just took them a little bit longer because all the work they'd been doing now they had to kind of like, redirect because Gwen died in a plane crash. And some people don't think that she did. I'm like, ah.

[Lola Blanc]

I think she did.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Yeah. I don't know if you really can come back from that or fake something like that. I mean, a. That'd be horrible.

[Lola Blanc]

I just wanna know, because when you leave a community and a belief system and a family and you're out in the world and you still. Part of you still very much believes that church was right or that you're going to hell or whatever, how long did it take you or is it taking you to deconstruct some of those beliefs? And what has that process been like?

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

It took a good 10 years. It really, truly did. And for me, how I managed to unpack all of it was a lot of how I was treated in Remnant, and all the tenants in Remnant were no different than how I was raised. So, you know, like I've said before that, you know, I. I was conditioned to be the perfect cult member. So anyways, I didn't have a lot of counseling for a really long time, but, you know, learn through learning things. Like, I would try to learn things and even through my husband, like, he would give me a perspective. He's normal. He grew up normal. He didn't grow up with. His parents are still married and they're so normal. And in fact, I think that's when it really. Seeing how they functioned as a family, I was like, oh my gosh, this is what it's supposed to be like. Like, I had no idea. I thought the way I grew up was normal. Like, everybody grew up that way. Being around, you know, quote unquote, normalcy and. And, you know, having A partner who would help me as best he could, when he could. You know, as for what he understood, it was like my mid-30s when I finally started facing that I may be in a cult. Like, I would look it up every now and then, and it would scare me because I'm like, you know, I don't know why it would scare me, but it's just like, it's. I would joke about it like I was in a cult. You know, some people say that sounds like a cult, and I'm like, yeah, whatever, you know? But truly facing what I had been a part of, you know, naming it what it is, it's. It's a high control group. It's a culture. There's no other way to look at. Took me a long time, but it was that generation cult podcast I had stumbled upon. Finally just going, I just really need to. I need to face it. What's. What's it going to hurt? And learning through other survivor stories, like, I really related to a lot of this. The Scientology survivors. It's like Remnants, a lot of Church of God and Christian fundamentals and a little bit of Scientology. Almost like just the way Remnant would track their members and, you know, manipulate and everything and how they isolate families. That just felt very. There's something about their stories that felt really similar. And, you know, the more I listened some more, I was like, oh, gosh. Like, so I wasn't a cult. This really did happen to me.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

Cults, like, just kind of repeat their. It's like the sauce just kind of repeats itself over and over. So listening to any survivor story.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Yeah, right. Exactly the same makeup, but just. There's always a slight difference throughout everyone, but there are.

[Lola Blanc]

But they're using the same tactics, and.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

It'S usually the hair. She went all out on that one.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

She really did. Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah. No, but I.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Like, God bless her.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

Yeah, truly.

[Lola Blanc]

I think what you're saying is important, though, because, you know, this is something we hear about a lot and talk about a lot, which is that, like, generally, people struggle to see if their group is a cult or was a cult just from people directly attacking the cult. But hearing other stories and seeing the parallels and drawing those connections themselves and hearing themselves in other people's stories, that can really be the big thing that opens people's eyes. And I'm really glad you have access to some of those stories.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

I know. Me too. It's like, almost like a gentler way to kind of awaken, like, that realization, I guess you could say, because, like, other ways they're almost, like, too harsh. Like, sometimes I feel like it should be subtle, especially, like, with. With someone coming out of, you know, a group like Remnant. It's. I. What I've noticed with a lot of survivors is it's not very prevalent that that's the first thing they want to say. And I get that. It took me a long time to.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

Say, you can't wake a sleepwalker a little bit.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. Yeah, yeah, right. So what finally did it for me when I finally decided that I needed to really get into counseling and take it very seriously, was I just wrote a simple paragraph on a Reddit post. Oh, someone had posted a picture of Mr. Bean, the cowboy in the first. Yeah, the first half. I cannot remember his name. He has a trailer that talks about Remnant, how Remnant took his wife or whatever, and the wife's gonna take all of his stuff or something really hilarious. And I was like, oh, my God. Like, that's crazy that they have that close to the church and everything. And someone asked me, well, what is your experience with this church? You know what? You know, why would you call to call? Like, what happened to you? So I just gave, like, a very brief synopsis, you know, and all of a sudden, like, I have two journalists contacting me. Rafael Martinez contacted me, and then through that, they became the story I wrote on Spirit Watch and multiple Conversations with Rajeev Gala is one of the journalists I talked to. And Niall, through Nyle Capello and Raphael, is how I ended up on the docu series. As you can see, in the first half, I was terrified. Even still sitting in that chair, I was terrified, because it's, again, I'm putting out to the world now. Like, I'm telling my truth to the world, and what are people gonna say? What are they gonna think of me? Because people generally don't have a good view on people who've gone through what I've gone through. And, you know, I think it's normal to maybe judge because, you know, what worked for me isn't gonna work for you, but it could happen to you in different areas, too. I think a lot of people don't realize.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. One of the things you said that really stuck out to me, and I might not be quoting you exactly, but you said, if you can't find a therapist who spe. Specializes in cults, find one who specializes in domestic abuse, because they're very similar. And I was like, holy shit. That is so smart. And specializes in trauma. And I'm gonna add that to my repertoire of thoughts.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

100%. Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

It's really smart. And you do a lot of outreach work. Can you tell us a little bit about where we can find that?

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

So I have a support group on Facebook Book. And, you know, there's not just Remnant survivors in there, but, you know, people from all different, you know, groups. Not like a ton of ton. But that's amazing. Christy and Steve Ford, they are from rem. They left Remnant. They were married to two different people in the church and divorced, and then they found each other and got married. They are doing exceptional work. Like, they actually are doing what I would love to do. I just. I don't have it to do. Like, they're. They're certified in life coaching and counseling, and their organization is called the Way out to Freedom. Yeah, they're doing amazing work, and she's been very helpful in my group because life gets in the way. And when your husband coaches most of the year, too, it gets a little tough.

[Lola Blanc]

No, for sure.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

I'm always here. I'm always here for anybody to reach out through email and things like that. It's just. It's slowed down a lot. But I'm here for anybody who needs to talk. And. And like I said, I can get you. I've got Steven Crispy Horde. I've got, you know, I can find anything. You know, I can look for any resource. But.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, and what is your. Do you want to share your social media?

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Absolutely. Facebook, if you search beyond Zion. I can't remember the handle. I think the handle is Eondzion, the website. It's beyond Zion.org and myself personally. What is my handle on Instagram? To be honest, I don't really post much on there.

[Lola Blanc]

Wait, I think I have it. Maybe.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Yep, that's it. Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

Well, thank you so much for joining us and for sharing your story. It was amazing talking to you.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Well, thank you. I appreciate you guys reaching out. So thank you.

[Lola Blanc]

Thank you to Megan Elizabeth Cox for coming on and for being the second Megan Elizabeth we've ever had on this show. Megan Elizabeth, number one. I would love to know if you would join the Way down workshop.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

I think you're gonna be surprised by my answer. Absolutely.

[Lola Blanc]

I'm shocked.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Are you?

[Lola Blanc]

No, really?

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

I'm surprised.

[Lola Blanc]

Are you surprised? I'm not surprised.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

Because I don't. I mean, yeah, I like her when she's on the way down.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

I love, like, a. Just a woman who's leaning into big hair.

[Lola Blanc]

I mean, well, I assumed you were gonna say because it harkens Back to your own past and your own history with eating disorder.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

Eating disorder would just be the cherry on top.

[Lola Blanc]

Right.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

I just like the. She's almost like a Dolly Parton character, but like telling you you're connected to Jesus, like it's addictive.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

I do see the appeal. You know, we grew up. At least us Americans, you know, who weren't from LA or whatever, grew up up, like with this corn fed woman. She's gonna take you in and take care, you know, this idea of this like totally woman from church and she's a mom and she's strong, you know, and I feel like she. Gwen Shamblin, like maybe not typically the hair that high, but Gwen Shamblin, like fits that sort of archetype.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

Oh, perfectly.

[Lola Blanc]

From like I think of Friday Night Lights or something. You know what I mean?

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Totally. Yeah. She's.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

She's very seductive to me and a, like I'm safe now way. Even as she's like just driving you towards. She's literally killing you.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Yeah, yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

It's interesting. It's weird. Yeah. But I get it. I think in general when cults are led by women, I think I'm more drawn.

[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

Yep.

[Lola Blanc]

Depending on the content, obviously.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

We did do an episode with Carolyn Coston on eating disorders. That is fascinating. So if anybody wants to listen to that, please do. Thank you for listening. We can't wait to see you again next week. And as always, remember to follow your gut. Watch out for red flags and never ever trust me. Bye. Bye.

[Lola Blanc]

This has been an exactly right production. Hosted by me, Lola Blanc and me, Megan Elizabeth.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

Our senior producer is Ji Ha Lee.

[Lola Blanc]

This episode was mixed by John Bradley.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain and our guest booker is Patrick Cotner.

[Lola Blanc]

Our theme song was composed by Holly Amber Church.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

Trust Me is executive produced by Karen Kilgareth George and Danielle Kramer.

[Lola Blanc]

You can find us on Instagram @TrustMePodcast or on TikTok@TrustMeCultPodcast.

[Megan Elizabeth (Co-host)]

Got your own story about cults, extreme belief or manipulation? Shoot us an [e-mail] Listen to Trust.

[Lola Blanc]

Me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

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[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

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[Megan Elizabeth Cox]

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