Mike & Abbi Prussack – Part 2: Predators in Power, Institutional Denial, and the Fight to Expose It

Summary

Podcast Summary: Trust Me – Mike & Abbi Prussack (Part 2): Predators in Power, Institutional Denial, and the Fight to Expose It

Podcast: Trust Me: Cults, Extreme Belief, and Manipulation
Hosts: Lola Blanc & Meagan Elizabeth
Guests: Mike & Abbi Prussack
Episode Date: November 19, 2025
Timestamps Reference: MM:SS (approximate)

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Episode Overview

This episode, the second part of an interview with two ex-members and survivor advocates, Mike and Abbi Prussack, dives into the systemic sexual abuse crisis within the secretive Christian sect known as the Two by Twos (also called The Truth or The Way). The discussion spotlights how abusers were shielded, the Prussacks’ work in building an online support group for ex-members, the emotional cost of leaving, and the ongoing fight for accountability—both legally and culturally.

Trigger Warning: This episode contains extensive discussion of sexual abuse and institutional coverups.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Formation of the X2X2 Support Group

[16:14]

• Loneliness After Leaving: Mike recalls how the isolation post-exit prompted the creation of a Facebook support group for former members. Kyle and Kari, friends who left during the pandemic, suggested it after experiencing profound loneliness.
• Rapid Growth: Launched in January 2022, the group grew steadily, reaching around 900 members by March 2023, just as major abuse revelations broke.
• Quote:
  “I think they realized just how lonely it was leaving that community. And so they asked us if we wanted to start a support group… and we said, yep, let’s do it.” – Mike Prussak [16:27]

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2. The Abuse Revelations and Breaking the Dam

[17:23–18:52]

• Dean Brewer Letter: In March 2023, news of sexual abuse by overseer Dean Brewer (who was deceased by the time of exposure) surfaced. An internal letter about his abuse went public, triggering a deluge of survivor disclosures.
• Mass Disclosure: Hundreds of ex-members began sharing their own stories in the open.
• Quote:
  “On that first post of that letter, there were people disclosing their abuse in the comments already… Just hundreds and hundreds of survivors started telling their stories.” – Mike Prussak [18:09]
• Abuse Scope: Over 1,000 alleged perpetrators have been disclosed within a church estimated to have 75,000 members pre-COVID.

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3. Institutional Denial & Coverup Practices

[19:32–22:41]

• Abuse by Authority Figures: 35-40% of disclosed perpetrators are ministers or workers; the rest, elders or lay members.
• Systemic Concealment:
  • Allegations rarely reported to authorities; instead abusers were quietly relocated to new communities, often with continued access to children.
  • Victims were pressured to forgive, but infractions like a woman cutting bangs were treated more harshly than abuse.
  • “Weaponized forgiveness” was enforced.
  • Quote:
    “Most of those cases, somebody knew and didn’t do anything… they were just typically moved to different areas, or the survivor was just kind of isolated and they left, or they were told not to say anything.” – Abby Prussack [20:00]
• Secretive Culture: Encouraged shredding of documents, minimizing outside reputation/footprint, and “burn or shred the worker lists after the year.”

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4. Theological Justifications for Silence

[23:49–25:32]

• Fear of Damning Souls: Overseers believed expelling someone from meetings might condemn their soul, a powerful motivator for avoiding discipline of offenders.
• Selective Morality: Members expelled for clothing or appearing “flamboyant,” but not for past abuse.

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5. Ongoing Legal Investigations

[27:43–31:15]

• The FBI Gets Involved:
  • FBI investigation formally launched Feb 2024, with a public tip site.
  • The process is slow, with no indictments yet. Survivors are frustrated but told by agents that such cases take years to build.
• Jurisdictional Challenges: Some individual prosecutions in the U.S. and Canada, but legal hurdles abound:
  • Statute of limitations.
  • Difficulty of evidence in cases of child sexual abuse.
  • Church’s role in delaying disclosure, so most cases are no longer actionable.

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6. Lifting the Lid: Named Abusers & “Invincible” Offenders

[31:41–34:36]

• Profiles of Notorious Abusers:
  • Richard Schrober: Bragged in media about undetected abuse: “Most of these children didn’t even know I was doing it.”
  • Robert Corfield: Transferred between Canada and Montana following allegations.
  • Haji Holgerson: At least 12 known survivors have come forward; involved with youth clubs across the country. Received only a deferred sentence (no jail unless he offends again).
• Quote:
  “They feel invincible because they’ve been treated that way their whole lives. They don’t live a normal human life.” – Abby Prussack [33:05]
• Culture of Impunity: Leaders laughed off the idea of providing restitution to survivors.

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7. The Mass Exodus from the Church

[35:05–38:26]

• Surge in Departures:
  • Support group has grown to 6,000 members; at least 1,300 joined after leaving since March 2023.
  • Estimated 10,000+ have left overall, and sharp decline is ongoing, prompting consolidation of meetings.
  • Many workers have left either due to allegations or on principle.
• Quote:
  “Our group is just one of many platforms for ex-2x2s right now… a very conservative estimate is that 10,000 have left.” – Mike Prussak [35:48]
• Generational Outlook: The church will likely survive a few more generations, but with a rapidly aging and shrinking base.

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8. Inside the Overseers: The Leaked Meeting

[38:26–41:26]

• Leaked Notes: In April 2025, notes from a high-level Zoom meeting among international overseers were leaked—thanks to someone simply logging in as “John.”
• Overseers’ Attitude: Treated departing members as “garbage,” laughed at calls to use church funds for survivors, discussed how to re-admit known abusers.
• Quote:
  “At the beginning of this meeting, they literally were talking about how to get a perpetrator back in the meeting.” – Mike Prussak [39:47]

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9. Advice for Survivors & Those Considering Leaving

[41:42–44:26]

• Barriers to Leaving: Sunk cost fallacy, fear of losing family/friends, dependence for young members.
• Encouragement: There is a large support community online now. Connecting with ex-members reduces the fear of leaving.
  • “It’s just not as scary as they make it out to be. But you can’t believe that until you step into it.” – Abby Prussack [43:47]
• Support Groups:
  • X2X2 Support Group on Facebook (for ex-members or those currently leaving).
  • Public updates on “Two by Two Church Updates” page.
  • TikTok: @our2x2story

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On disclosure and the dam breaking:
  “There was an opportunity for the truth to come out, and everybody really took it and ran with it.” – Mike Prussak [18:26]

• On weaponized forgiveness:
  “Victims were told to forgive, you know, weaponized forgiveness. And then at the same time, it’s like there was no forgiveness if you cut your bangs or wore pants as a woman.” – Megan Elizabeth [20:41]

• On systemic secrecy:
  “They really didn’t want to be known as an entity.” – Abby Prussack [23:12]

• On the feeling of safety after leaving:
  “I was far less safe in that than I feel now.” – Abby Prussack [43:47]

• On church leadership’s view of exodusing members:
  “They mentioned [departing members] were like the garbage that needed to be taken out anyway and things like that.” – Mike Prussak [39:32]

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Useful Timestamps

• 16:14 – Creation of the Facebook support group
• 17:23 – Abuse revelations and first public disclosures
• 19:32 – Perpetrator demographics, cover-up practices
• 23:49 – Exclusive culture, reputation management
• 27:43 – FBI contact and investigation details
• 31:41 – Notorious abusers named and discussed
• 35:05 – Current exodus from the church
• 38:26 – Leaked international overseer meeting
• 41:42 – Advice for leaving, resources
• 44:45 – Where to find X2X2 resources online (X2X2 support group; Two by Two Church Updates; TikTok: @our2x2story)

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Tone & Approach

The tone is raw and compassionate, balancing outrage over injustice with empathy for survivors. Discussions are candid, honest, and occasionally laced with gallows humor and warmth—demonstrating the resilience of the survivor community even amidst deeply unsettling subject matter.

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For More Information / Support

• Facebook – X2X2 Support Group: Private, for ex-members and those in the process of leaving
• Public Updates: “Two by Two Church Updates” page on Facebook
• TikTok: @our2x2story
• Email: trustmepodmail.com for podcast-related support

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This episode offers an essential, inside look at how abuse thrives in secretive religious institutions, the high cost of escaping, and the power of collective grassroots advocacy for healing and justice.

Transcript

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

This is exactly right.

[Mike Prusak]

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[Abby Prusak]

So that means half day.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Mike Prusak]

Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment.

[Abby Prusak]

Of $45 for a three month plan.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

Equivalent to $15 per month.

[Abby Prusak]

Requ.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

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[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

But Ross shoppers, you've got a mission.

[Abby Prusak]

Like a gift run that turns into a disco, snow globe, throw pillows and PJs for the whole family, dog included.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

At Ross, holiday magic isn't about spending more.

[Abby Prusak]

It's about giving more for less. Ross, work your magic.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

Trust me.

[Mike Prusak]

Do you trust me? Would I ever lead you astray?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Trust me.

[Mike Prusak]

This is the truth. The only truth.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

If anybody ever tells you to just trust them, don't. Welcome to Trust Me, the podcast about cults, extreme belief and manipulation from two advocates of support groups who've actually experienced it.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I'm Lola Blong and I am Megan Elizabeth.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

Yes, you are.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yes, I am.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

Today is part two with our guests Mike and Abby Prusak, former members of Megan's cult, the Two by Twos, also known as the Truth, also known as the Way. And Mike and Abby are also moderators of the former two by two Facebook group. So last week we talked to them about their upbringings and the secretive Christian sect and how they met. This week we're going to talk to them about what led them to start the support group for ex members and the explosive revelation about a church leader's sexual abuse.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And just to clarify, this is not my cult.

[Mike Prusak]

Former.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

Former.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I was a member.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

Yes.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Born in.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

No, you started it.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Okay, we'll dig into more of the FBI Investigation of the widespread sexual abuse, the scope of the group's internal coverups and how they moved perpetrators around instead of contacting the authorities, and. And the number of people who've been leaving as a result.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

Before we jump in with them, Megan, I would love to know your cultiest.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Thing of the week. Well, I have been reading about tech bros a lot lately.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

As one does.

[Megan Elizabeth]

As one does. And the new fad, and it's probably not new. The new talk of the town is an old fad. That is Tech bros are getting facelifts. The quote is that you should never hire someone over 30 to work in tech. So, I mean, the advance of facelifts are probably getting so good because of these men needing to look like they're 30. And sometimes they actually do some of the work is pretty incredible. I mean, we've seen facelifts.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

Facelifts have gotten really good.

[Megan Elizabeth]

They've gotten incredibly.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

It used to be kind of a.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Kind of a.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

What is the word that I want? You would be cursed to looking weird forever.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, that could have. Like, you can either look old or weird now. You can look pretty young. And Kris Jenner's face looks amazing. Yeah, I've seen it without the filter, and it is a bit different. Okay.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

But.

[Megan Elizabeth]

But it's still it. I mean, let's not name some of the younger actresses that have recently.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

And they look great.

[Megan Elizabeth]

They look unbelievable.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

I understand the instinct.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Same. So. But, you know, so we're not facelift shaming. I'm not gonna name anybody. But it is weird for men.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

Or it's less common.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, it's less common. Thank you. Did I say it was weird?

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

Yes.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, that was wrong of me. It's less common for. You know, I think of, like, tech guys as, like, Bill Gates are, like, freaking nerds.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

Like, nerds. Yeah, yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And. And not getting facelifts.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

I mean, it is. It's interesting how this area that was traditionally a nerd zone, where it was like, kind of the whole thing was that you weren't cool, has kind of evolved into this, like, we're the hot guys. We're the cool, rich guys.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And having to do a lot of plastic surgery to maintain that. And like we talked about on the INCEL episode with Tim Squirrel, you know, the things that this group of people in particular are like, women, like a big jaw. And then, like, suddenly there's jaw surgeries.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

Well, and with Arabella Sicardi, too, we like. It is actually interesting to me because one of the things we talked about with them in that episode was how typically with women, the anti aging emphasis is on the external appearance. And with men, it's more on life extension and living forever. So it's interesting to hear that this faction of men are actually now also focusing on the external appearance.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Y'. All. Yeah, I mean, I'm looking at a tech bro right here.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

His facelift looks great.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I know.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

It sucks.

[Megan Elizabeth]

It sucks.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

I don't want us to feel like that looks great. You know what I mean?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, I know. I wish it looked worse, but he looks incredible.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

He looks really good.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I'm sure he's just cash. Just cashing in the checks.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

I mean, it's a testament to ageism still being very much rampant in our society.

[Megan Elizabeth]

But I am really digging deeper into this cult of the tech bro, and.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

It'S a fascinating world.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, I think as the years go on, we're gonna have a lot more information to look back on and a lot. You know, I think it's just gonna be a very, very interesting conversation.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

Definitely. Can I shamelessly self promote for a second?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Sure.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

You guys, I made a music video about aging. Have we talked about this on here at all?

[Megan Elizabeth]

I think so. It's the woman dancing.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

Yes, yes. Did we talk about it?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But go on.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

Okay. I don't remember talking about it. Okay. Because I have been frustrated with this trope in horror movies because I'm a horror filmmaker, but I'm also a music artist. God, shut up, Lola. But I have been frustrated with this trope of like, the old woman is, like, scary or she's a monster because she has, like, low hanging boobs and wrinkles on her face. And that's like such a common. It's called whatever. It's a subgenre called hagsploitation is the trope. But I did make a music video starring an older dancer who we aged up to look even older. And the whole video is her defying this expectation that she will be scary simply because she looks old. Anyway, I was just trying to interrogate this idea that aging is inherently scary or something to be afraid of. And it's called Dear Sarah, if anyone's interested. That is my spiel on aging. But of course, as I say this, I am actively putting retinol on my face every night and getting, you know.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Like, yeah, you suggested a face peel to me that I almost murdered me.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

I'm gonna do more.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Oh, man. That was the worst day of my life. That was the worst day. What about you? What's your cultiest thing?

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

So I found an article that two of our previous guests are quoted in. And it is a HuffPost article called the One Thing. Although this is a misleading title cause it's multiple things. The one thing cult experts want you to do when talking to your MAGA relatives.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Um, ooh.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

And Steve Hassan is of course the main interviewee and as well as Daniela Masti Neck Young. And I feel like I'm saying her name wrong, but hopefully not. So first thing it says is ask a good question. This is something we have. We. We've talked about all of this, but sometimes it's good to just have a refresher because there's so much division and polarization right now in family units.

[Megan Elizabeth]

You gotta go back to the fundamentals.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

Yeah. So ask a good question instead of telling them why they're wrong. Ask why they believe what they believe. Get cur. Ask from a place of kindness and empathy. Like, huh, that's interesting. What's important to you about that? What do you think about that? So are you saying that you believe in that because of X, the curiosity. And also it can be helpful for people to have to really think about why they believe what they believe. Because so often we don't think about why we believe what we believe. We just sort of assume we believe it. So when you have to say it in your own words, that also can be like a challenge, like to question whether or not that's your stance.

[Mike Prusak]

Yeah.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

And.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And on the flip side, like, I'm sure every single person alive believes something untrue. So maybe a family member asks you a question and you can explore your.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

Own beliefs from a gentle place. And like I have, I have a. You know, I, we all know I'm, I'm quite left, but I have conservative family members most, I would say conservative family members outside of my immediate family. And we are able to talk about what we believe because we know that we, we love each other and we're coming from a place of wanting to know. But the only reason why I can tell them what I believe is because they are showing me curiosity and vice versa. Like if it's coming, when it comes from that attacking place, it just, like, it just goes nowhere. And then we just get angry.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Does it ever, does it ever change your views or like move you in any sort of way?

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

Not necessarily because I generally the things I believe, I read a lot about, but I will say, like, it gives me a lot more empathy for why people believe what they believe and what the perspective that they're coming from. And I find over and over again that we share so many of the same, like, core beliefs and values, but we are being fed really, really different information around it. And I have come to middle ground with family members, certainly. Although, of course, there are some issues that are just, like, too spicy and we are not able to get there, but depends on who I'm talking to.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

The article also says, come prepared with your own gentle rebuttal. This one's hard because I really think that the immediate rebuttal can be tricky. That was a Daniella recommendation. She suggested some ways you can respond, saying, can I share why I'm concerned? Would you be open to reading a source I trust? In my experience, people aren't super responsive. Still when it's immediate, when you're. When you're. Cause it still feels like you're trying to debunk them. I haven't really encountered that being effective, but in certain cases, when the person is curious. Yeah, definitely. And then it says, know your own triggers and theirs so that you're not just devolving into conflict. And then it says, be prepared to safely disengage. I love you too much to argue with you about this. I've learned that these.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Oh, that's cute.

[Mike Prusak]

Yeah.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

I've learned that these conversations don't feel good or helpful to me. You know, I want to focus on connecting with you. And then, of course, the final one, which we talk about all the time. Keep a tether to your previous relationship. Keep them in your life even when it's a challenge.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yep. Unless they're, you know, dangerous.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

Unless they are abusing you or just, you know, being outwardly hateful or something.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. And I will say that the two by twos have a nice little system going on that really deescalates things like this because we have so many board games because we didn't grow up with television. So, like, we just go straight to a game.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

Like, if their conflict is rising, you just play a game.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

That's kind of cool or, like, kind of nice.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

What games?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Uno. There's a game that we're really obsessed with to the point that one of my cousins has, like, a headlamp with a light on it. Because it's like a color game where you try to explain a color and everybody puts a. I don't know what this game is called.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

Everyone puts a headlamp on. Is that what you're saying?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Everyone doesn't put a headlamp on. Just headlamp on. Just my cousin, who is very, very, very competitive about this game.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

Okay.

[Megan Elizabeth]

But all the normal games that one would go to is what we jump to.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

Oh. Like Monopoly. Taboo. Yeah, I love Taboo. Best game.

[Megan Elizabeth]

There's one called God. What is it called? We go to it a lot. But, you know, something that you can kind of do a group. Nope.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

Where you can disengage.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

Instead of devolving into conflict. God, it's so hard. Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And I'm going home for the holidays. Family's still in the system that we're discussing today, so I totally understand how holiday stuff can be awkward.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

It truly can.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And I still want to go because I love my family, and it's like a very complex little thing.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

We all go.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

It's so tough. I'm just thinking back to something that happened with me this summer where I got really. I was struggling to keep my cool. It just happened. It's gonna happen, and it's gonna happen in the other direction, too. They also feel the way back.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. Yeah. It's wild. But it's worth keeping the communication lines open.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

And I. Communication and curiosity and compassion. Look at those three Cs that I just pulled out of my butthole. Okay.

[Megan Elizabeth]

That you pulled out of your B.3C's.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

From your B.3C's from my B. Is it a BH if it's a butthole?

[Megan Elizabeth]

That's. That's trademarked, actually, guys.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

Yeah. And we'll keep reminding y' all every year before the holidays.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yes, we will.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

So do not explode with your family over politics or religion.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yep. But anyway, today's guests, Mike and Abby are absolutely incredible. They are a great example of staying connected to people and keeping that line of dialogue open and what it can bring, which is a amazing community that's helped so many two by twos. I really appreciate them taking the time and the information that they have so painstakingly collected and share. And we do talk in this episode about sexual abuse and sexual misconduct. So take care. Listening. Shall we talk to them?

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

Let's do it.

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[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

But Ross shoppers, you've got a mission.

[Abby Prusak]

Like a gift run that turns into a disco, snow globe, throw pillows and PJs for the whole family, dog included.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

Ross holiday magic isn't about spending more. It's about giving more for less.

[Abby Prusak]

Ross, work your magic.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

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[Mike Prusak]

So Kyle and K, we had been friends with them throughout this whole period. So they, we left in 2010. They left like around the pandemic. So around 2020, 2021, and where they were one of the friendships that actually lasted, you know, despite us not being in the church for, for that long. And, you know, around 2020, it kind of broke for them and they, they decided to leave. And it was really kind of a. I think they realized just how lonely it was leaving that community. And so they asked us if we wanted to start a support group on Facebook and we, we said, yep, let's do it. So in 2022, January, I think we started that group together. And yeah, it, it grew, you know, at a moderate pace at that point. And by 2023, March of 2023, it was up to about 900 members, which is probably about the, about the point that things are going to. Well, we've already talked to Colin Khari about all of that, so you can.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Give us a refresher.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

Yeah, yeah, please.

[Mike Prusak]

So In March of 2023, allegations came to light about Dean Brewer, who was an overseer in Oregon. And we got our hands on an internal letter that, that was describing his abuse and put it online and all hell broke loose.

[Abby Prusak]

Of note is that he had passed away almost a year Before.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

And when we say abuse, remind us what we're talking about.

[Mike Prusak]

So we're talking about child sexual abuse and. And sexual assault on. On adult women. And. Yeah, so it. It's really hard to describe how that broke the dam, but it just did. Like, even on that first post of that letter, there were people disclosing their abuse in the comments already. And it just kept on coming. Just hundreds and hundreds of survivors started telling their stories. And sometimes it was in the comments, it was Facebook posts. It was just people really. I think there was an opportunity for the truth to come out, and everybody really took it and ran with it.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

So there's been just so much has happened since then. I mean, God, I remember when you first were like, there's a Facebook group for two by twos. It is crazy how much has happened since then. What has come to light, Maybe the nutshell version. And then we can kind of talk about more recent developments, if that makes sense.

[Mike Prusak]

Yeah. So what has come to light is literally over a thousand perpetrators of sexual abuse, whether it be child sexual abuse or sexual assault on. On adults.

[Abby Prusak]

And these are just cases that have been disclosed to various places in the community.

[Mike Prusak]

And this is in a church that prior to Covid was around 75,000, based on good estimates. Obviously, we don't have any solid information about the numbers in the church because they don't publish them. I don't even know if they keep them. And so, yeah, over a thousand perpetrators is quite a significant percentage.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

And this is happening like in people's homes. These are people of authority, and there's just like a power dynamic. And also like they're in the family space.

[Abby Prusak]

Right.

[Mike Prusak]

Yeah. Those allegations are based on our data. It's between 35 and 40% are ministers, workers, and then the remaining are elders, just members.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

Okay.

[Mike Prusak]

Yeah. So it kind of spans across all those demographics.

[Abby Prusak]

And for most of those cases, somebody knew and didn't do anything. So the percentage of abusers in a population, you know, you usually kind of weed them out, as you find out, and they never did. So the percentage of abusers in the population just kind of seems like it just grew and prospered and they were just typically moved to different areas, or the survivor was just kind of isolated and they left, or they were told not to say anything, or they were re victimized in a way that made them feel unsafe, say anything. But then when you feel a nice of the world, they stay in the church and it's just a horrible mess.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, victims were told to forgive, you know, weaponized forgiveness. And then at the same time, it's like there was no forgiveness if you cut your bangs or wore pants as a woman.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

Right.

[Megan Elizabeth]

So it just. This very ripe place for abuse was fostered. I mean, you couldn't. It's almost like it was purposefully manicured that way.

[Mike Prusak]

Yeah. Having the minister staying in the homes, even in some cases sleeping in the same rooms as the kids when they.

[Abby Prusak]

Would stay at the homes, especially in previous generations, that was a lot more common.

[Megan Elizabeth]

It's terrifying.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

And so let's say an incident happens and it's reported to someone.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, let's say like one of the workers does something to somebody and the elder or their parents bring it to an elder or an overseer. I think usually you guys would know more than me, but it's kind of a conversation of like, okay, we talked to them, let's move on to the forgiveness process. And if it's particularly bad, we're going to move them to a new area where no one knows that this happened at all and they'll just start staying in new kids houses. Is that a good paraphrase?

[Mike Prusak]

Yeah, 100%. Yeah. I'm trying to think of like how many were actually reported to the authorities. And I can maybe find like a handful of instances where, where an overseer found out about abuse and actually reported it.

[Abby Prusak]

Yeah, that's, that's not a thing. Really?

[Mike Prusak]

Yeah.

[Abby Prusak]

In fact, I mean they even put out communications that told people not to and they, it told, they told people to. What was it they needed to.

[Mike Prusak]

I think they said to report it. If, if you find out about abuse, tell a, a therapist so that then the onus is on the therapist to report, not on you, the worker to have to report.

[Abby Prusak]

Right. But the therapist doesn't have enough info to do anything about it anyway. And it was only if you absolutely have to. So it was literally don't report it unless you really have to. Then maybe tell somebody else and just like, then you can wipe your hands. And if they feel obligated to report it, they will. Without very much information.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

And I'm assuming the thinking is similar to what it often is in situations like this, where they don't want a bad reputation. Is that kind of.

[Abby Prusak]

Well, they don't want any reputation. They don't want. They didn't want to be known. For a church that has the one and only way to heaven, it's really strange how much they didn't want to be known. They, they want everything to stay secret. They don't want any information to get into the wrong hands. You know, they told people to. At times they told people to burn or shred the list, the worker lists after they're done with that year. Never really explained why, but just in case they get in the wrong hands or to not to destroy your notes after you're done with them, that type of thing. They really didn't want to be known as an entity.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

Right.

[Mike Prusak]

So there was definitely, like, the preservation of the church, the church's image, at least for the people that were in the church. But also they really believe that if people were cast out of meetings or told not to attend, that they were going to be sending them to hell. And so when you literally feel like you are so, you know, say an overseer is in that position of authority, he literally believes that if he tells this person they can't go to meeting anymore, that that's the equivalent of sending them to hell because meeting attendance is required for salvation in their eyes.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

Wow, I didn't know that. That's fascinating.

[Megan Elizabeth]

But at the same token, I do know people who have been asked to not attend meetings or asked not to speak at meetings. That's another thing. We're the ones who speak at meetings. It's the whole thing because they dress too flamboyantly. So there is a willingness to lose a person who doesn't look the part, but there's no willingness to lose a person who might be doing crazy things, but they're kind of like fitting the part. Right.

[Abby Prusak]

Well, and the. The idea is that you can repent from things that you've done in the past, but if you're willfully participating now, then you're not repenting.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Right.

[Abby Prusak]

So if you're. If you're wearing pants to meeting right now, that's a current choice. And if you were to, like, stop doing that, you could stay in meetings. Right. And so for somebody who has hurt a person, it's in the past, right? And if they say, oh, I've repented and the workers have decided to accept that, like, it's not the same thing as choosing to participate in gay relationships. You know what I mean? That's their justification, is that you are continuing to choose it and act on.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

That, it's a past transgression.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And of course, as we've found out, the repentant. I'm putting it in quotation marks, but continue to do it. It's just a secret. So it isn't earrings that a woman is wearing in her head that we're not allowed to do. It's a secret that they're able to get away with.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

Are there any numbers on how many people were just kind of moved and then perpetrated again in the new area?

[Mike Prusak]

We have data that probably could be compiled about that, but I don't have the numbers readily available. I would say it's definitely in the dozens, if not higher, of ones that were definitely moved from place to place after their allegations were known.

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[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

What's happening right now? Because aren't there. Haven't there been like a ton of ongoing authority investigation stuff?

[Mike Prusak]

Yeah. So in. What was it at Thanksgiving, 2023, we were at Kyle and Kari's house for Thanksgiving, and Kari got a call from a random number, and it turned out it was the FBI trying to, you know, dig up a little bit more information. They already had quite a bit of information by that point. I think their investigation has started in the summer of 2023. And then in February 2024, they formally publicly announced their investigation. And they. They put up a. A website to track tips and go from there.

[Megan Elizabeth]

The FBI?

[Mike Prusak]

The FBI did?

[Abby Prusak]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. They called when Karina got back on the phone with them. She said, actually, we're here with Mike and Ab. And he says, oh, yeah, I'm familiar with. With all of you.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

Oh, wow.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Oh.

[Abby Prusak]

Yikes.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

Are there specific people that have been prosecuted or are indicted or anything.

[Mike Prusak]

Nothing, nothing from the FBI has happened at all yet. And you know, they're very tight lipped. They don't share with us like what their plan is or what's going on. We just, we give them information sometimes for things that we think are important and they say, okay, thanks, and that's about it.

[Abby Prusak]

That's how they are with everyone.

[Mike Prusak]

Yeah.

[Abby Prusak]

That's, that's their standard.

[Mike Prusak]

We're, we're estimating it's going to be years probably before anything actually happens. They're building a case and we're really hopeful that the current administration stuff doesn't mess with anything going on with that investigation. But time will tell.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, lots of cuts too.

[Abby Prusak]

Right. I know that they've done like thousands of interviews. I think it's thousands. There was a time when tons of people were getting interviewed and that seems to have slowed down. So it's impossible to know where it all is. And we certainly have some cases where we're like, this one would be good to prosecute. It's all over the place. It's egregious. There's lots of people who want to, you know, talk and it doesn't seem like anything's happening. And I think that's frustrating for a lot of people. But we also know that this goes really slowly. So they're not going to probably pick off one person at a time. You know, that, that kind of gives everybody else the idea that they need to, you know, that it's serious and maybe they should flee. So it's possible that they're building a case that will come together very quickly at the end, you know, that we'll see results very quickly. But I don't, I don't know.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

Wow.

[Mike Prusak]

Outside of the FBI, there's definitely other cases happening across the world even, but certainly in the United States and Canada is ones that we kind of know the most about, and those are within their, whatever jurisdiction they're in. But our community is definitely getting a lesson in just how badly the justice system handles sexual abuse cases. So, you know, there's, there's been a few cases where they, they, they got off. They didn't get any punishment. And it's not because those things didn't happen. It's because it's really hard to prove that something happened in a room with closed doors.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

Yeah.

[Mike Prusak]

Where they. There's only two people that know what happened.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Ugh.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

It's so. That's so hard.

[Abby Prusak]

Yeah. And most of these cases are now outside of the Statute of limitations. Because the church blocked the process for, you know, people to report. Because the church had this influence to cover things up and convince people not to report, which is a form of COVID up. They prevented them from being able to do anything within their statute of limitations. So now the vast majority of these reports aren't actionable legally anyway.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Right.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

Damn.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I was just gonna say, I think isn't like one of the most prolific sex offenders. Isn't his name Robert? And wasn't. Isn't he in Oregon and was a worker or Seattle or something like that? Coreyfield or something?

[Mike Prusak]

Yeah, there is Robert Corfield. He was. He was in Montana and he was one that was transferred from Canada to Montana because of what he'd been doing.

[Abby Prusak]

And we don't really know how prolific he was necessarily. We have only heard of a couple, I think a couple known survivors. But he's notorious.

[Megan Elizabeth]

He's notorious. Okay. I mean, I just know that there was one that was like, I, I read it in a newspaper that they were like, he's one of the most prolific in the state. And I was like, okay.

[Abby Prusak]

Oh, was it in Alaska? Oh, I mean, Washington too.

[Megan Elizabeth]

So.

[Abby Prusak]

So that's.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

Oh, shoot.

[Abby Prusak]

What's his name?

[Mike Prusak]

Richard Schrober.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Thank you. That's who I'm thinking about. Richard Schrober. And he casually said a quote. I think it was him. Perhaps it was Robert.

[Mike Prusak]

Yes.

[Megan Elizabeth]

That was like. Most of these children didn't even know I was doing it.

[Mike Prusak]

Yeah. It's crazy that he said that to the media.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

Yeah.

[Mike Prusak]

Like, what that is, it's insane. And the same with Robert Corfield. He also gave. He talked to the BBC and was basically like, yeah, I did this stuff. But like, we can't do anything about it, Statute of limitations and all.

[Abby Prusak]

But they feel, they feel invincible because they've been treated that way their whole lives. They don't live a normal human life.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And you can see that in the letters that they release where you're like, oh my God. You've never been held accountable for a single thing. This religion has never been made public, obviously, because you just send the craziest shit I've ever read in my life. And now it's being all released and they're realizing it. But these are. People have never been held. I'm laughing because I will.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

Crazy.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And then start breaking things.

[Abby Prusak]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's another one that's worth mentioning. An extremely prolific abuser, that he has a court case actually coming up in December and he's had a trial before he was found guilty in early 2023. And he was given a 10 year deferred sentence, which means that he doesn't spend a day in jail unless he reoffends in the next 10 years, and then he gets 10 years. I think that was the deal. And turns out that the police had actually ghosted a previous report that is now going through the courts. And so he has a trial coming up in December. This is Haji Holgerson, and I think it's really important to get his name out there because the access that he has had to children is unfathomable. I mean, he's been involved with 4H clubs, and he's been around the entire country. And so we're really. That's one that really gives us some.

[Mike Prusak]

Pain, especially because we personally have at least 12 survivors that have told their story to us. And if there's 12, how many more.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Are there out there?

[Abby Prusak]

And the way that he's done a lot of this, well, some of it has been very, very severe, very severe abuse toward very young children. And a lot of it is just like this Richard Schober type of thing, where you just get an opportunity here and there to do something small that, like, people might even see and go, he wouldn't do that right in front of me. So that can't be intentional. Right. And so, yeah, one of those extremely prolific, classic pedophiles.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Oh, my God.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

We asked this, but it's been a while. So I'm curious, like, have more people started leaving since this has come out, or is everyone digging their heels in? What's. Where's that all landing?

[Mike Prusak]

I think it. It's. It varies by region and area. But, yes, people are pouring out of the church right now. So our group has about 6,000 people right now. And we've been tracking people who have left. Our Facebook group. Yes, we're tracking people on the admin side who have left the church since March of 2023. And we're at about 1300. So we're almost like a fifth of our group is comprised of people who have left just in the last two years.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Wow.

[Mike Prusak]

And our Facebook group is just one of many platforms out there for. For X2X2 members right now. So, you know, I think a very conservative estimate is that 10,000 have left, and it's most likely more than that.

[Abby Prusak]

Well, yeah, because each of those people in our group that has left has a family, typically.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Correct.

[Abby Prusak]

Right. There are some places in which they've had to consolidate meetings and consolidate fields. There's been a huge loss of workers due to both allegations and workers leaving on principle. So, yeah, there are big downsizing pains going on in the church right now. And they. They like to pretend that it's not painful, but when you listen to their sermons right now in conventions, you can tell it's, it's. It's living rent free in. In their heads at all times right now.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

What do you guys think the future of the church is? Do you think it'll be able to survive this? Because it's not like they be recruiting really.

[Mike Prusak]

Yeah, I think they'll survive for at least a few more generations just because, you know, but it's going to. It's going to dwindle very, very quickly. I don't know how. You know, I've talked to my brother about this, and this is one of the reasons that he left the ministry is how do you evangelize and try to bring people into a church when they can find out all this information about it on the Internet? You would have to swindle them into joining the church at this point and.

[Abby Prusak]

On a moral basis when you're not sure that they're going to be safe there. Right. I think that the future of the church might also, like, there are a lot of factors that could influence just how quickly it dwindles. So right now, the average age in the church is pretty darn high. There's a lot of old people and there's not so many young people. And I think that also as a society, our young people are moving away from fundamentalist religions. And so we know that a lot of the young people that are in the two by twos right now will eventually not be there. And so there. I think it's going to dwindle very quickly for a while. But I also think that things like a more severe than expected response by the FBI, a more sweeping response than we expect, could definitely influence people feeling even legally safe in that environment. Like, we have heard of FBI agents saying that, like, I would not be anywhere near this group right now if I were you. But people have always felt safe and invincible from the world there. So there are a lot of people that are staying and doubling down.

[Mike Prusak]

Something that is kind of worth mentioning is In April of 2025, we were able to release notes taken from an overseer meeting that got.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Oh my gosh. Oh, my gosh. Yes.

[Mike Prusak]

So that was a really interesting look into what's going through their minds. And, you know, this was a zoom call amongst Overseers across the world. And it was really a good old boys club when they were just talking amongst themselves. But it's interesting because they did talk a lot in this meeting about what outsiders were saying about them. And so it's definitely top of mind. You know, of course they. They talked about it in a way of like, well, this is what they say about us. But that's not true. Even though it literally was true. You know, and so there was just all kinds of things. You know, they talked about the people that are leaving. They mentioned that they were like the garbage that needed to be taken out anyway and things like that.

[Abby Prusak]

They laughed about things like people saying that instead of jetting all these workers all over the world, maybe they should spend that money right now on Survivors. They all chuckled about that.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

What a funny joke.

[Abby Prusak]

Yeah, hilarious.

[Mike Prusak]

And at the beginning of this meeting, they literally were talking about how to get a perpetrator back in the meeting.

[Abby Prusak]

Wow.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And this meeting was kind of. Can you tell a little bit about how we have this transcript? I mean, I know we don't know who did it, but how. How did that breach happen?

[Abby Prusak]

Yeah. So someone was able to call in to the meeting and they were unsure of the phone number. And everybody checked their address books and it wasn't there. So this person eventually was able to get in by claiming to be John. And there are some John's high up in leadership, and that's apparently all they needed to let this person in to their good old boys club. Was.

[Megan Elizabeth]

It's John, a zoom name that said John.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

Yep.

[Megan Elizabeth]

So this person just recorded it.

[Abby Prusak]

Wow.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And a little inside, look at what these people are talking about. And it is dire.

[Abby Prusak]

And there was. There was a lawsuit or legal action threatened vaguely in the direction. They didn't even send it to us. They sent it to Wings, which is a website that posted it from us, even though our name was on the notes.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Right.

[Abby Prusak]

They don't even know who belongs to who. But they. They threatened Wings or they implied that there could be legal action, but they don't know who the person is who got the notes. And instead of removing it like they had requested, Wings instead kept the notes up there and put the threat letter up there. So they really took the full send option. And I loved that.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Is there anything. I mean, I want to know if there's anything else current that Members X members should be aware of. And then just any advice you have, people who are contemplating leaving or are on the fence a little bit.

[Abby Prusak]

Oh, man. It's hard right now because a lot of people that are staying have kind of. They've kind of justified where they sit. And I mean, leaving at this point is also kind of hard, too, because you didn't leave when all the terrible stuff came out. So I think they're kind of hitting a line there where there's. What is that. What is that word? They got some sunk cost, you know.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Abby Prusak]

So that's hard. I mean, we've even been contacted by, like, teenagers who are like, I don't want to be in this, but I'm forced to go. And you have to be really delicate. I'm the one that talks to them if needed, you know, just to. Just to be extra careful. But really, it's just hang in there. You know, we can't encourage them to. We can't really give them a lot of advice except just moral support. And that's hard.

[Mike Prusak]

Yeah, the kids. The kids is definitely a hard, hard one to. To navigate. And they don't really have a choice. Like, you know, what choice do you have when you. If you leave, you might be kicked out of the house by your parents. It's. There's definitely precedent for that. For the adults that are thinking about leaving, it's a. It's a really hard thing because you. You potentially lose your family. You undoubtedly lose some segment of your friends. I think the only kind of encouragement that I would give to people who are in that position who are thinking about leaving is there's a massive community out here for you now. And so whether it's our group, there's a ton of other groups out there now that are all set up for supporting people as they leave this church. And so, yeah, there's definitely people here that are. Have gone through it all and can. Can support you.

[Abby Prusak]

Yeah, I would just encourage them to talk to somebody. Talk to somebody who. Who left and listened sincerely. It's not as scary as they make it out to be. In fact, people leave and they go, oh, this is nothing like they said it was.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

Right.

[Abby Prusak]

I was far less safe in that than I feel now. I. And for people who leave and, and continue to. And change their religious beliefs but continue to stay in some form of Christianity, they all say, I left. And it got better. Like, my faith was so much more real afterward. And that makes sense because you're no longer building your faith in the church, you're all of a sudden starting to build your faith in your actual religion, right? Yeah, I mean, it's just. It's just not as scary as they make it out to be. But you can't believe that until you step into it.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Oh, man. I cannot thank y' all enough for not only coming on the show, but for creating the space. I'm going to cry. I don't know where I would be without the group. So I'm just so grateful.

[Mike Prusak]

Thanks, Megan.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Thanks.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

And thank you guys for coming on. What is the name of the Facebook group?

[Mike Prusak]

So the Facebook group is called the X2X2 support group. It's currently open just to X members or people who are in the process of leaving. But we don't just generally allow the general public to jump in. We have a public Facebook page that we have used for sharing all the updates and perpetrator allegations and things like that. That's two by two church updates on Facebook.

[Abby Prusak]

Cool.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

Thank you both and thanks for all the work that you've been doing.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Have we missed anything? Are we.

[Abby Prusak]

Mike, did you mention the TikTok?

[Mike Prusak]

Yeah. So we're on TikTok making x2 x2 content. It's at our 2 x2 story and.

[Abby Prusak]

We haven't done done a lot recently. We kind of took a break over the summer, but there's a lot of content before that and we will eventually get some more put up.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Well, thank you all so much and I'll be talking to you on the Internet soon.

[Abby Prusak]

Yeah, thanks.

[Mike Prusak]

Thank you very much for having us.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

Thank you so much, Mike and Abby, for coming on.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Indeed.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

It's good and also a little depressing to get an update on where things are at with that case because obviously we want justice to move a little bit faster. Is there anything you would like to add?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. Come join us on the X2X2 Facebook group.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

If you are a former 2X2 or Wings for Truth.

[Megan Elizabeth]

If you're just interested in learning more information, if you need some support, those are some places to come find it. And Mike and Abby started a TikTok that I just started following and I am curious to see how things keep unfolding.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

Indeed.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Thank you so much for listening to another episode of Trust Me. We have some big news. There is now merch available.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

Brand new merch.

[Megan Elizabeth]

That's right.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

With exactly right, you can visit www.exactlyrightstore.com and order by December 14th.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Oh my gosh.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

For Christmas delivery.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Imagine seeing somebody in one of our merch shirts.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

I. I'm imagining it and I'm loving it.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I would die.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

Or hat.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Or hat. Or hat. Also dead.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

Deceased.

[Megan Elizabeth]

As always, remember to follow your gut. Watch out for red flags and never ever trust me.

[Abby Prusak]

Bye.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Goodbye.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

This has been an exactly right production.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Hosted by me, Lola Blanc and me Megan Elizabeth. Our senior producer is Ji Ha Lee.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

This episode was mixed by John Bradley.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain and our guest booker is Patrick Cotner.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

Our theme song was composed by Holly Amber Church.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Trust Me is executive produced by Karen Kilgareth, Georgia Hardstark and Daniel Kramer.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

You can find us a on Instagram usme podcast or on TikTok usmecult podcast.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Got your own story about cults, extreme belief or manipulation? Shoot us an [e-mail] Listen to Trust.

[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

Me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Megan Elizabeth]

Well, almost.

[Mike Prusak]

Almost anything.

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[Host 1 (Possibly Jessica)]

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[Megan Elizabeth]

Okay, so there's nice and there's luxury. The Delta 1 experience is all about luxury. It's the extra touches and personalization. If you've experienced it, you know. If you haven't, well, you deserve to. You deserve to relax in the comfort of Delta one lounges. You need to enjoy the chef curated meals during flights and the comfort of spacious 180 degree lie flat seats. If there's one thing I know, it's that everyone needs to experience Delta One. Learn more about the Delta One experience at delta.com deltaone.