Podcast Summary: Trust Me – Mike & Abbi Prussack (Part 2): Predators in Power, Institutional Denial, and the Fight to Expose It
Podcast: Trust Me: Cults, Extreme Belief, and Manipulation
Hosts: Lola Blanc & Meagan Elizabeth
Guests: Mike & Abbi Prussack
Episode Date: November 19, 2025
Timestamps Reference: MM:SS (approximate)
Episode Overview
This episode, the second part of an interview with two ex-members and survivor advocates, Mike and Abbi Prussack, dives into the systemic sexual abuse crisis within the secretive Christian sect known as the Two by Twos (also called The Truth or The Way). The discussion spotlights how abusers were shielded, the Prussacks’ work in building an online support group for ex-members, the emotional cost of leaving, and the ongoing fight for accountability—both legally and culturally.
Trigger Warning: This episode contains extensive discussion of sexual abuse and institutional coverups.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. The Formation of the X2X2 Support Group
[16:14]
- Loneliness After Leaving: Mike recalls how the isolation post-exit prompted the creation of a Facebook support group for former members. Kyle and Kari, friends who left during the pandemic, suggested it after experiencing profound loneliness.
- Rapid Growth: Launched in January 2022, the group grew steadily, reaching around 900 members by March 2023, just as major abuse revelations broke.
- Quote:
“I think they realized just how lonely it was leaving that community. And so they asked us if we wanted to start a support group… and we said, yep, let’s do it.” – Mike Prussak [16:27]
2. The Abuse Revelations and Breaking the Dam
[17:23–18:52]
- Dean Brewer Letter: In March 2023, news of sexual abuse by overseer Dean Brewer (who was deceased by the time of exposure) surfaced. An internal letter about his abuse went public, triggering a deluge of survivor disclosures.
- Mass Disclosure: Hundreds of ex-members began sharing their own stories in the open.
- Quote:
“On that first post of that letter, there were people disclosing their abuse in the comments already… Just hundreds and hundreds of survivors started telling their stories.” – Mike Prussak [18:09] - Abuse Scope: Over 1,000 alleged perpetrators have been disclosed within a church estimated to have 75,000 members pre-COVID.
3. Institutional Denial & Coverup Practices
[19:32–22:41]
- Abuse by Authority Figures: 35-40% of disclosed perpetrators are ministers or workers; the rest, elders or lay members.
- Systemic Concealment:
- Allegations rarely reported to authorities; instead abusers were quietly relocated to new communities, often with continued access to children.
- Victims were pressured to forgive, but infractions like a woman cutting bangs were treated more harshly than abuse.
- “Weaponized forgiveness” was enforced.
- Quote:
“Most of those cases, somebody knew and didn’t do anything… they were just typically moved to different areas, or the survivor was just kind of isolated and they left, or they were told not to say anything.” – Abby Prussack [20:00]
- Secretive Culture: Encouraged shredding of documents, minimizing outside reputation/footprint, and “burn or shred the worker lists after the year.”
4. Theological Justifications for Silence
[23:49–25:32]
- Fear of Damning Souls: Overseers believed expelling someone from meetings might condemn their soul, a powerful motivator for avoiding discipline of offenders.
- Selective Morality: Members expelled for clothing or appearing “flamboyant,” but not for past abuse.
5. Ongoing Legal Investigations
[27:43–31:15]
- The FBI Gets Involved:
- FBI investigation formally launched Feb 2024, with a public tip site.
- The process is slow, with no indictments yet. Survivors are frustrated but told by agents that such cases take years to build.
- Jurisdictional Challenges: Some individual prosecutions in the U.S. and Canada, but legal hurdles abound:
- Statute of limitations.
- Difficulty of evidence in cases of child sexual abuse.
- Church’s role in delaying disclosure, so most cases are no longer actionable.
6. Lifting the Lid: Named Abusers & “Invincible” Offenders
[31:41–34:36]
- Profiles of Notorious Abusers:
- Richard Schrober: Bragged in media about undetected abuse: “Most of these children didn’t even know I was doing it.”
- Robert Corfield: Transferred between Canada and Montana following allegations.
- Haji Holgerson: At least 12 known survivors have come forward; involved with youth clubs across the country. Received only a deferred sentence (no jail unless he offends again).
- Quote:
“They feel invincible because they’ve been treated that way their whole lives. They don’t live a normal human life.” – Abby Prussack [33:05] - Culture of Impunity: Leaders laughed off the idea of providing restitution to survivors.
7. The Mass Exodus from the Church
[35:05–38:26]
- Surge in Departures:
- Support group has grown to 6,000 members; at least 1,300 joined after leaving since March 2023.
- Estimated 10,000+ have left overall, and sharp decline is ongoing, prompting consolidation of meetings.
- Many workers have left either due to allegations or on principle.
- Quote:
“Our group is just one of many platforms for ex-2x2s right now… a very conservative estimate is that 10,000 have left.” – Mike Prussak [35:48] - Generational Outlook: The church will likely survive a few more generations, but with a rapidly aging and shrinking base.
8. Inside the Overseers: The Leaked Meeting
[38:26–41:26]
- Leaked Notes: In April 2025, notes from a high-level Zoom meeting among international overseers were leaked—thanks to someone simply logging in as “John.”
- Overseers’ Attitude: Treated departing members as “garbage,” laughed at calls to use church funds for survivors, discussed how to re-admit known abusers.
- Quote:
“At the beginning of this meeting, they literally were talking about how to get a perpetrator back in the meeting.” – Mike Prussak [39:47]
9. Advice for Survivors & Those Considering Leaving
[41:42–44:26]
- Barriers to Leaving: Sunk cost fallacy, fear of losing family/friends, dependence for young members.
- Encouragement: There is a large support community online now. Connecting with ex-members reduces the fear of leaving.
- “It’s just not as scary as they make it out to be. But you can’t believe that until you step into it.” – Abby Prussack [43:47]
- Support Groups:
- X2X2 Support Group on Facebook (for ex-members or those currently leaving).
- Public updates on “Two by Two Church Updates” page.
- TikTok: @our2x2story
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On disclosure and the dam breaking:
“There was an opportunity for the truth to come out, and everybody really took it and ran with it.” – Mike Prussak [18:26] -
On weaponized forgiveness:
“Victims were told to forgive, you know, weaponized forgiveness. And then at the same time, it’s like there was no forgiveness if you cut your bangs or wore pants as a woman.” – Megan Elizabeth [20:41] -
On systemic secrecy:
“They really didn’t want to be known as an entity.” – Abby Prussack [23:12] -
On the feeling of safety after leaving:
“I was far less safe in that than I feel now.” – Abby Prussack [43:47] -
On church leadership’s view of exodusing members:
“They mentioned [departing members] were like the garbage that needed to be taken out anyway and things like that.” – Mike Prussak [39:32]
Useful Timestamps
- 16:14 – Creation of the Facebook support group
- 17:23 – Abuse revelations and first public disclosures
- 19:32 – Perpetrator demographics, cover-up practices
- 23:49 – Exclusive culture, reputation management
- 27:43 – FBI contact and investigation details
- 31:41 – Notorious abusers named and discussed
- 35:05 – Current exodus from the church
- 38:26 – Leaked international overseer meeting
- 41:42 – Advice for leaving, resources
- 44:45 – Where to find X2X2 resources online (X2X2 support group; Two by Two Church Updates; TikTok: @our2x2story)
Tone & Approach
The tone is raw and compassionate, balancing outrage over injustice with empathy for survivors. Discussions are candid, honest, and occasionally laced with gallows humor and warmth—demonstrating the resilience of the survivor community even amidst deeply unsettling subject matter.
For More Information / Support
- Facebook – X2X2 Support Group: Private, for ex-members and those in the process of leaving
- Public Updates: “Two by Two Church Updates” page on Facebook
- TikTok: @our2x2story
- Email: trustmepodmail.com for podcast-related support
This episode offers an essential, inside look at how abuse thrives in secretive religious institutions, the high cost of escaping, and the power of collective grassroots advocacy for healing and justice.