Nomzia Bistline, Part 1 - The False Prophet: Growing Up FLDS & Marrying Sam Bateman

Summary

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Trust Me: Cults, Extreme Belief, and Manipulation

Episode: Nomzia Bistline, Part 1 - The False Prophet: Growing Up FLDS & Marrying Sam Bateman

Hosts: Lola Blanc & Meagan Elizabeth
Guest: Nomzia "Gnomes" Bistline
Date: May 6, 2026

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Episode Overview

This first part of a two-part interview features Nomzia "Gnomes" Bistline, a survivor of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (FLDS) and former wife of notorious cult leader Samuel Bateman. Building on the Netflix docuseries "Trust Me: The False Prophet," this episode drills into Gnomes' firsthand memories of life in the post-Warren Jeffs FLDS, the traumatic impact of splintered families, the rise of Bateman, and the steady march from psychological grooming to coercion and abuse. Through disarmingly candid discussion, the hosts and Gnomes unpack the nuanced psychological, social, and spiritual manipulation that underpins extreme belief communities.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Childhood and Family Life in FLDS

• Absence of Fathers:

  • Gnomes recounts, “[My] dad was sent away as thousands of men were sent away... so a lot of us grew up without a dad, so we had caretakers.” (12:58)
  • Her father’s exile was based on allegations Warren Jeffs fabricated: "He said murder of unborn children as well as unconfessed childhood sins.” (13:11)
  • This splintering led to family members being scattered, and siblings often losing relationship with each other.

• Scale of Family:

  • Gnomes: "My immediate family, I have 11 full siblings and 11 half siblings." (14:03)

• Living Under Surveillance & Fear:

  • On the insular, fearful atmosphere: "If anyone from the outside came into town, we would hibernate in the home… turn off all the lights, shut all the blinds so we wouldn’t be seen." (16:10)

  • Purpose: “We were... taught that the world was out to get us, especially the government... the government being these monsters because they took the prophet…and it was our fault he’s still in prison.” (16:27)

  • Memorable Quote:

    “We would shut the blinds, turn off all the lights, go into the living room and kneel in a circle and pray.” — Gnomes (19:44)

2. Socialization, Control, and Forbidden Curiosity

• Suppression of Individuality:

  • Expressing any interest outside of doctrine was considered sinful: “All this stuff was not accepted in the religion because the only things we could read and write about were scriptures.” (30:00)
  • Even innocent creativity was punished: “We wrote tons of novels… made up stories... drew pictures... We would get a lot of trouble for that and get our notebooks and art taken away and later banned from us.” (29:11)

• Secret Hobbies:

  • Gnomes describes sneaking to download movies: “The movies were so innocent… Shirley Temple movies.” (18:40)

3. The Impact of Warren Jeffs’ Imprisonment

• Continued Control from Prison:

  • “Warren still controlled the people from prison. He banned all marriages and babies being born...” (23:17)
  • The 'father shed' system: “Even the fathers that... were still here with their families... had to live out in a father shed in the backyard.” (23:43)

• The United Order:

  • A failed attempt at communal living and complete dependency on centralized authority—often leading to hardship and hunger:
    • “Some weeks we would only get potatoes and rice… I remember going three years with one set of clothing.” (24:19, 25:19)
    • “For me, I was one of the slaves of the cult. My schedules were literally getting up at three in the morning... and we couldn’t eat the food...” (25:27)

4. Psychological Manipulation and Conditioning

• Guilt and Condemnation:

  • FLDS taught it was “our fault” Jeffs was imprisoned: “There was a lot of pressure on us... it was our fault... that he was in prison because that’s what we were taught.” (28:23)
  • Any deviation was considered damning, no matter how minor.

• Confusion and Cognitive Dissonance:

  • “There was my mom going into another faction, there was my caretaker pushing me into this [relationship with Bateman]... None of them were anything that I actually wanted.” (41:44)
  • “I didn’t know what was right, what was wrong, if it even mattered at that point.” (42:06)

5. Rise of Sam Bateman: New Prophet, Old Tactics

• Emergence of Bateman:

  • Bateman positioned himself as Jeffs’ successor, claiming, “Warren is dead, I guess, and is speaking through me.” (32:27)

  • Gnomes: “He grew up FLDS... an underdog... within a week after that first meeting, Sam called me and... told me ‘I belonged to him.’...‘God told me to tell you this, and if you deny it, then you are denying God.’ And that was when the pressure started.” (32:49, 35:08)

  • Bateman's tactics included love bombing, threats of damnation, isolating targets, and leveraging peer pressure/in-group manipulation—sometimes using children to pressure Gnomes (38:16).

  • Memorable Quote:

    “He would send me messages telling me how bad I was, and then only to disappear and then reappear with these declarations of love. And it was very confusing.” — Gnomes (36:41)

• Coercion into Marriage:

  • Her “caretaker” supported Sam, leaving Gnomes with no true choice:
    • “In the end... they pretty much commanded me... this is what you’re going to do.” (38:04)
    • “I was taken to Lincoln, Nebraska... and handed me off.” (40:22)

• The Wedding:

  • No ceremony, just a ritualistic, coercive “sealing”: “They basically had me kneel down in a circle with them. Then they put their hands on me... chanted some things to God, and therefore I was Sam’s wife.” (42:33)

6. Abuse, Breakdown, and Survival

• Intensification of Abuse:

  • Gnomes relates the psychological and sexual abuse she endured:

    • “One day he just came on top of me and I knew nothing about anything sexual... I spent the rest of the day crying in the bathroom, feeling very dirty... then not caring.” (43:40)
    • “I’m just a rag on the end of a stick. Do with me what you will.” (44:45)
    • “And then you get Stockholm syndrome because there’s no way to escape it.” (44:55)

  • Notable Moment:

    “The abuse that you endured is so... it’s unbearable.” — Lola Blanc (45:09)

• Escalation to Life Threats & Blood Atonement:

  • Bateman adopted Mormon "blood atonement" teachings, openly planning the deaths of dissenters:

    • “He started planning Liddell’s and Moroni’s deaths and how he was going to kill them... started training Moroni’s daughters in this.” (46:22, 46:41)
    • “He even had me get this life insurance policy... if I were to die, he would collect that money... I was literally planning my death.” (48:01, 49:10)

  • Explanation of Blood Atonement:

    • Lola Blanc clarifies: “Certain sins were so serious... the only way to atone... was to have your blood spilled... by the prophet.” (46:46–47:06)
    • Gnomes: “He would say if we weren’t perfectly compliant... one day we would be crawling on our hands and knees to him and begging him to spill our blood.” (48:02)

7. Paranoia, Surveillance & Documentary Filming

• Constant Supervision:

  • Sam tightly controlled the inner circle: “He would always have at least four other girls and women. Like, we always had to be in this group... We were spies... always spying on each other.” (58:18)

• Relationship with Documentary Makers:

  • Gnomes, unknowingly aided parts of the docuseries: “Toga [her stepfather] found out that I loved cameras... So the parts where Toga's in the camera… then that was me.” (58:47)
  • Her suspicions began growing when noticing oddities: “Tolga was... videoing and droning the blue house and the greenhouse… first curiosities…” (55:52)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “[Sam] started using them [minor wives] to recruit me… 15-year-olds and 9-year-olds calling me and damning me, saying really horrible things.” (38:16)
• “There was no ceremony. There was literally nothing.” (42:33)
• “After the not caring, then you get Stockholm syndrome because there's no way to escape it.” (44:55)
• “My schedules were literally getting up at three in the morning and going to the storehouse and working until eight... yet we couldn't eat the food that we were filling these orders for.” (25:27)
• "He would say if we weren’t perfectly compliant and obedient, then one day we would be crawling on our hands and knees to him and begging him to spill our blood.” (48:02)
• “He even had me get this life insurance policy that was 1.5 million, and if I were to die, he would collect that money.” (49:10)
• “We would kneel... in the living room and pray for our safety.” (19:44)

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Important Timestamps

• [12:58–16:51] — Gnomes describes her childhood, family fragmentation, and paranoia in FLDS.
• [23:17–26:40] — Economic deprivation and forced labor under the United Order.
• [27:19–30:00] — Attitudes toward Warren Jeffs as a demi-god and community guilt.
• [32:27–38:14] — Sam Bateman’s rise as self-proclaimed prophet, manipulation of Gnomes.
• [38:16–42:17] — Increasing psychological, spiritual, and community pressure to accept marriage to Bateman.
• [42:33–46:23] — Details of coerced marriage, onset of sexual abuse, and the effect on Gnomes’ psyche.
• [46:41–49:58] — “Blood atonement”, threats of murder, escalation of Bateman’s violence.
• [58:18–59:41] — Paranoia in Bateman’s group, Gnomes’ accidental contributions to the documentary, Sam’s resistance to letting her build trust outside the cult.

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Tone & Takeaways

The hosts maintain their characteristic blend of compassion, honesty, and dark humor, supporting Gnomes through harrowing recollections. Gnomes' story is presented not as sensational cult content, but as a deeply human account of resilience, confusion, and eventual strength in the face of exploitation—while highlighting the devastating systems of control that enable modern cults to fracture families and identities.

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Teaser for Part 2

Next week, the conversation continues with the FBI raid, Sam Bateman’s conviction, and Gnomes’ journey reconnecting with her own agency, including her developing relationship with Lola’s mother, Christine Marie.

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Transcript

[Lola Blanc]

This is exactly right. Welcome to texas.

[Gnomes Byline]

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[Lola Blanc]

support our national parks@garnier USA.com NPF support

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[Gnomes Byline]

Trust me do you trust me?

[Public Ad Read]

Would I ever lead you astray?

[Gnomes Byline]

Trust me. This is the truth. The only truth.

[Lola Blanc]

If anybody ever tells you to just trust them, don't welcome to Trust Me the podcast about cults extreme belief and manipulation from two daughters of Christine who've actually experienced it. I am Lola Blanc, the actual biological daughter of Christine Marie.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And I am Megan Elizabeth, a big Dr. Christine Marie fan, which is close

[Lola Blanc]

enough to being a daughter.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Agreed.

[Lola Blanc]

This week is part one with another one of her fake daughters. No Gnomes adopted daughter. Yeah Gnomesia, AKA Gnomes Byline from the Netflix docu series Trust Me the False Prophet, which does have my mom Christine Marie in it. Gnomes is going to talk to us about what it was like growing up in the FLDS after Warren Jess went to prison, how she was raised to be paranoid about the outside world and how Many of the men in the community were sidelined and sent away.

[Megan Elizabeth]

She'll explain how Samuel Bateman began claiming that he was the new prophet and what it was like when he started targeting her and wearing her down over time, threatening her salvation and ultimately coercing her into becoming one of his wives.

[Lola Blanc]

And next week in Part two, she will talk about the raid and Sam's conviction and her relationship with my mom. Now there is so much to get into. I'm so happy Gnomes was able to join us. Before we do begin with her, I'd love to know Megan's cultiest thing of the week.

[Megan Elizabeth]

That's me. My cultiest thing of the week is while I was watching Trust Me, the False Prophet on Netflix, guys. P.S. if you haven't seen it yet, I was very struck by how much nostalgia I had for certain points of my own high control religious background and that I loved how we would all play with each other's hair. There was a lot of that going on in the doc, you know, because we all had. I could sit on my hair. I would like snap my hair back if I head back if I accidentally sat on my hair. And we all had to do very intricate braids. I mean, there was a braid in this sock that I was like, oh,

[Lola Blanc]

there was a beautiful braid. I know the exact braid you're talking about.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I know you do. And it's like, you know, some girls would be like, I know how to fish tail braid, I know how to blah braid. And you'd like get in line at convention. We'd have these state conventions that everybody would go to to like try to get the best braid. And, you know, it was a nice part. Otherwise horrible systems.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, I. I mean, getting your hair played with is just the best thing. I think it's like just truly one of the best things and absolutely one of the worst things about adulthood. I guess if you have a boyfriend who plays with your hair, I guess that is also a thing.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I. Yeah, but there's something like more meaningful if your hair is going to look better when they're done playing with it.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, no, it's so true. If it's going to be in a beautiful braid after that you could never do on own. Like.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, and it's going to attract men in your religion and be like, look at her braid.

[Lola Blanc]

That was important to me. That's what they say. That's how they say it.

[Megan Elizabeth]

So anyway, this story is harrowing, but I did take away that moment and, you know, tuck it away. What about you what's your cultiest thing this week?

[Lola Blanc]

So I have been reading about a culture that was raided in the uk. It seems very fascinating. So they were rated for allegations of sexual assaults or sexual offenses, modern slavery and forced marriage.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Oh, my God.

[Lola Blanc]

It's this group called the Ahmadi Religion of Peace and Light.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Oh, dear.

[Lola Blanc]

It was founded by a man who's actually American named Abdullah Hashem. And Abdullah Hashem has claimed that he is basically the Islamic version of the second coming of Christ. Like it's a messiah of sorts. He's also claimed to be the true pope and the successor of Christ. Like, obviously, these crimes are very serious, and. And I'm sure what's happening on the compound has been very serious. But like unto Samuel Bateman, he has a fashion choice that he makes that he also makes all of the other men in the group make, which is he wears a black beanie and a black jacket, and when they're standing together, it looks like a bunch of Andrew Tates. And it is so fucking funny to me that that would be the spiritual garb that you would choose is black beanie and, like, cool guy, black jacket, and all of the men look like that. So that's him. Interestingly, he used to be a documentary filmmaker who covered other cults, including the Raelians, which we. We interviewed someone from that a long time ago. But, yeah, it's classic cult stuff. It's classic. He makes everybody sleep with him and allegedly marry him. So apparently there are videos of members saying that he could cure deadly diseases. He could make the moon disappear, and he could turn leaves into living animals. He could make leaves into living animals. 56 kids living in their headquarters, all of them homeschooled, of course. So, anyway, that's what's going on in the uk. Colds are everywhere. A bunch of different people were arrested. So hopefully justice comes through there.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Oh, my gosh. I hope we can talk to a survivor someday. That's wild. I mean, saying that you can make the moon disappear is pretty intense because it's like something you can see.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, I wonder what. How. I wonder how that works. Like, I wonder if it's like, there's a meditation and everyone is sort of like, oh, they. They don't see it. Am I the only one who still sees the moon? You know, like, I'm d. Like, what does that look like?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Well, as we've seen with a lot of guests, some gurus get very creative, and we'll have people behind the scenes, like, constructing a universe in which it looks as though Something magical is happening. I mean, the leaves into an animal I can imagine as a simple magic trick of sorts. But the moon is the big set

[Lola Blanc]

piece on Earth, although it's small in the sky. So who. You know.

[Megan Elizabeth]

True, true. Yeah. I'm curious more about that and then to just say a little bit more about Samuel Bateman's costume. I'm going to call it a costume.

[Lola Blanc]

Costume's correct. Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

He's wearing a white leather jacket that's maybe 15 times too small for him.

[Lola Blanc]

It's definitely too small. Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Every day of his life. And honestly, I had a similar jacket that I had to get rid of because it's ruined forever. I don't want to say anything controversial, but once you get into a point in your life where you really don't respect women, you are going to find men and jackets 15 times too small and they are all going to be wearing beanies with black shirts.

[Lola Blanc]

It's so true. It's so true. It's interesting to me because I feel like the cult leader figure used to wear like robes and like white and you know, the idea was that they would look spiritual. And now there's this like, I mean, maybe it's not new, but it seems new thing where it's like, actually I'm just gonna look like a cool guy. And that's like the whole brand of the, of the new gurus.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, I feel like the California cults, of which there are numerous, you know, they, they have the Charles Mansons and the.

[Lola Blanc]

That's true. But Charles Manson was doing a Jesus thing. Like I feel like a lot of in the 70s, all those guys were doing like a Jesus thing, you know, like.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, but they were a little bit rock and roll.

[Lola Blanc]

No, that's true, that's true.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Well, all fashion choices aside, shall we get into it with gnomes?

[Lola Blanc]

Let's do it.

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[Lola Blanc]

Welcome Gnomes by Slash to Trust me, the famous Gnomes. Thank you so much for joining us. Hi Correct hi is correct. I'm so excited that you're here. Obviously we talk outside of the podcast via my mother, but I'm excited to get to actually ask you all of the questions that we haven't talked about one on one ever. There's so much I don't know about you. There's so much the world doesn't know about you. So really grateful that you're here. Can you tell us first, before Sam ever came into the picture, what was your family life like? What was your lifestyle? You were a regular flds, Kind of.

[Gnomes Byline]

My dad was sent away as thousands of men were sent away around that time. So a lot of us grew up without a dad, so we had caretakers.

[Lola Blanc]

Why was your dad sent away?

[Gnomes Byline]

From what I remember, it was some really rare accusations that Warren Jeffs had against him. He said murder of unborn children as well as unconfessed childhood sins. I never really understood any of this, but. And also because I think because my mom had miscarriages and so. Oh, my gosh.

[Lola Blanc]

And he blamed your dad.

[Megan Elizabeth]

That's awful. It sounds like he was trying to

[Lola Blanc]

get rid of competition.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. Male population, you see that a lot.

[Gnomes Byline]

Yeah, I kind of feel out that way now, looking back. He got rid of all the men he was threatened by is what I feel like.

[Lola Blanc]

Right. Anyone who maybe would take one of

[Gnomes Byline]

his wives or like, question him.

[Lola Blanc]

Question him? Yeah, totally. I didn't know that. See, I'm already learning new things. Okay, so what was your family, your immediate family? Like, how many siblings do you have?

[Gnomes Byline]

My immediate family, I have 11 full siblings and 11 half siblings.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Crazy.

[Gnomes Byline]

Yeah. My dad had two wives around the age of 12, 13, I think I was 13 then we were all scattered and split and separated. When my dad was sent away then not only were the moms separated, but the siblings, like me and my other siblings were scattered and separated into different homes.

[Lola Blanc]

What year was that around?

[Gnomes Byline]

My dad was sent in 2012, and then it was early 2013, I think.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Do you know where they were sending them?

[Gnomes Byline]

I learned later they were being sent out to repent. My dad moved to Minnesota and just lived a bachelor life out there.

[Lola Blanc]

Wow.

[Gnomes Byline]

Later, some of my brothers were sent away at the age of 11 and they went and lived with him.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh. And do you know if they were still believers at that point, like they were trying to do the repentance process, the made up repentance process from what

[Gnomes Byline]

it seemed like they did at first, but as the years went by, then my brothers just kind of trailed off and started living a life outside.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, that makes sense. But you and your sisters and a lot of your family is still in Short Creek then? After.

[Gnomes Byline]

Yes. Although we were in different homes. So a lot of my siblings, I haven't lived with them since and never really had that sibling relationship.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Right.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah. When I first visited Short Creek, it was before my mom lived there and it was a very different town than it is now. And we definitely talked about this on the podcast, but it's been a long time. Like, when I visited, a lot of the homes were still unfinished. There were like very few outsiders anywhere to be seen. And it was just a lot more of like a closed off community. Do you remember that era? Like, what was it like then?

[Gnomes Byline]

Oh, very, very much. I. I do very well remember if anyone from the outside came into town, we would Hibernate in the home. We'd go in the houses, turn off all the lights, shut all the blinds so we wouldn't be seen.

[Lola Blanc]

What was the thinking? Like, what. What were you told was the reason for that?

[Gnomes Byline]

We were kind of under the impression and taught that the world was out to get us, especially the government. So we were born and raised as the government being these monsters because they took the profit. And it was our fault that he's still in prison. Oh, no. It's a really messed up mindset. But we grew up thinking that they were always out to get us.

[Lola Blanc]

Well, I can see how that's both a tool of manipulation, potentially, and also rooted in actual trauma in the community. Because there were the raids in 1953 where the families were, you know, taken away from each other by the government, right?

[Gnomes Byline]

Yes. And then there was raids in 2008 in Texas on another compound, and then another raid in 2016. So we grew up with these, right?

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah. And it's like, you know, obviously, Warren Jeffs deserved to be in prison because of the crimes that he was committing. But the result of it is that a lot of kids are taken away from their parents and families are separated, and that's, like, a very traumatic thing. So it creates this distrust of basically, like, the outside world in the community, right?

[Gnomes Byline]

Oh, yes. Even more. But there were times, I mean, growing up, you had suspicions of the outside world and curiosities, but you never dared explore them.

[Megan Elizabeth]

So when a thought. I have two. Two questions. When a thought would come up about the outside world, how would you push it out? Would you consciously be like, I can't think that, or did you just not even have them?

[Gnomes Byline]

A lot of times we didn't really have them, but when we did, then it was like, yeah, push it out. Don't think about that. Even though there were times when I would get with, like, other friends and relatives in the group, and when it was just, like, us girls talking, then we would have conversations. Like, if we grew up in the outside world, we called them gentiles. We're like, if we were born gentile, where would we be right now? And we would talk about the different things. That would be me. I would always say, like, I would probably be in the entertainment industry. I'd be an actor or a singer or an influencer somewhere in that industry.

[Lola Blanc]

And did you have any secret hobbies that you liked that were forbidden? Any, like, movies you would watch secretly or anything like that?

[Gnomes Byline]

Yes. Not until way later. So growing up as a child and, like, also in My early teenage years then, it was very rigid. Everything was very strict. But in my late teenage years, 16 and 17, that was when I started to sneak out and download movies from the college because it had free WI fi and we didn't have Internet, so I would download. But the movies were so innocent. They were like Shirley Temple movies.

[Lola Blanc]

Andy Griffin.

[Gnomes Byline]

Oh, that's really remarkable.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I love Shirley Temple.

[Gnomes Byline]

I do remember the first cartoons. And it was Frozen two and it was me and my best friend Mikel, and we would learn the different songs in that.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, it was you and Mikel. That's so cute.

[Gnomes Byline]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Like, when you say you would go in and hide, what does that look like? Outsiders come in and y' all go and hide. Do you have to be quiet? Can you not make any noise? Or can you read a book? Or do you all just have to stare at each other like, what, what is that?

[Gnomes Byline]

We would shut the blinds, turn off all the lights, go into the living room and kneel in a circle and pray.

[Lola Blanc]

Like, pray for them to leave.

[Gnomes Byline]

Pray for our safety mostly.

[Lola Blanc]

That sounds like, really like it would fill you with a lot of anxiety all the time if you had that much fear collectively as a community.

[Gnomes Byline]

It did.

[Lola Blanc]

And also, like, as someone who was one of those people driving around the town and being like, oh, what's going on here? Like, if I were on the other end of that, I'd be like, get out of here. Like, stop being nosy about my, you know, like, we're not animals.

[Gnomes Byline]

Yeah, yeah. Even now when I'll be with. Because I've made a lot of friends outside now, outside that didn't even have my background. But when they see other FLDS people and they pull out their phones and start videoing, I'm like, guys, that's rude.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, it is rude.

[Gnomes Byline]

I was one of them. Like, it's. They're scared. Foreign

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[Lola Blanc]

Okay, so how old were you when. Well, first of all, I guess Warren Jeffs gets arrested and then the community is kind of leaderless for a while. What was your conception of who the leader was now or what people were supposed to do now that there wasn't a prophet out?

[Gnomes Byline]

Warren still controlled the people from prison. He banned all marriages and babies being born, any type of relationship that brought that forth. And he also started having the fathers could not live with their family. Even the fathers that had were still here with their families. Then they had to live out in a father shed. We called it a father shed in the backyard.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, that is so mean. Yeah, okay.

[Megan Elizabeth]

We see that so often breaking up the family unit and.

[Gnomes Byline]

Yeah, yeah. And then the whole united order started and then there was a lot of separation between that members and non members and people who are worthy and people who are not. A lot of boy homes and girl Homes and a lot of separation and splitting up.

[Lola Blanc]

Can. Can you briefly explain what the United Order is? Because I think most people won't know what that is.

[Gnomes Byline]

Honestly, I don't still know what it is exactly.

[Lola Blanc]

It's confusing to me. Like, I know what it is too, but I don't really know how to explain it.

[Gnomes Byline]

I really honestly don't know how to explain it. It was just basically another step into becoming, like, God or something. And it was where everybody donated to the storehouse and all the money, all food, everything. And then we got all our supplies and what we needed from that storehouse, which didn't really distribute enough because there was some weeks where we would only get potatoes and rice and just things like that. And that was all we get for food. And this went on for years.

[Lola Blanc]

Mm. If you were in the sort of the, like, lower class. Cause there was an upper class. Right. But the families were kind of categorized one way or the other. And, like, the sort of lower class within the order or hierarchy. Yeah. Were, like, often starving. I remember talking to Rest In Peace Alyssa Beislein about that years ago and how hungry her family was at the time.

[Gnomes Byline]

Yes. I remember going three years with one set of clothing. Had to wash every single night.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, my gosh.

[Gnomes Byline]

Living off very little food. Whereas, like, some of the people that were better, they were in abundance. They had everything they needed. We would see this too, and. But there was. It was kind of strange because there wasn't supposed to be these, like, levels of classification, but there definitely was. And for me, I was one of the slaves of the cult. I would say, like, my schedules were literally getting up at three in the morning and going to the storehouse and working until 8, filling orders for different people, yet we couldn't eat the food that we were filling these orders for.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Oh, my God.

[Gnomes Byline]

And we would work till 8. Then I would go to school till around noonish. And some days then I was, like, put into these. These sewing classes. And I would sew for until from noon till six some days. And it was very scheduled, very rigid.

[Lola Blanc]

Sounds exhausting. Exa. And also you're hungry this whole time. Like, you wouldn't even have time to question because your time is just so completely consumed. You're so exhausted.

[Gnomes Byline]

I think that was intentional.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Gnomes Byline]

To keep everybody so, so busy that they didn't have a chance to logically think about anything or question anything.

[Lola Blanc]

And are these orders coming from Warren still at that point?

[Gnomes Byline]

At this point? Yes, they were coming from him as well as the bishop at the time. Lyle Jeffs, his brother.

[Lola Blanc]

That's right.

[Gnomes Byline]

Lyle.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

There's a lot of two to buy. Twos named Lyle who come out as not good people. I don't know Lyle. No, there's some good Lyle.

[Lola Blanc]

I'm sure there's a good Lyle, but there's some bad Lyle.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Cancel.

[Lola Blanc]

Clear. Okay.

[Gnomes Byline]

I look at it the same way with the name Warren.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yes. Thank you.

[Gnomes Byline]

It's just. What.

[Megan Elizabeth]

What were your thoughts about Warren Jevs,

[Gnomes Byline]

at the time, growing up? Yeah. He was like God. Anything he said, you had to do it. No questions asked, no thought against him. He was literally. I remember even in his trainings that he would give, then he would talk about the prophet is God to this people. And we grew up with that. And there was also trainings about it was our fault that he was in prison.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Oh.

[Gnomes Byline]

And even the people that knew about the crimes he'd committed didn't believe it.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Right.

[Gnomes Byline]

I personally didn't know until years later when I was sitting in prison and the other inmates talked about it. And that was when I first knew the parallels between him and Sam.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Which we will get to.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, we are going to get into that.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Oh, my gosh.

[Gnomes Byline]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

But until that point, you thought it was like. Did you think it was persecution?

[Gnomes Byline]

Yes. We all were, like, taught this was persecuting, and therefore he's more righteous because he's like this martyr because he's being persecuted for his religion.

[Lola Blanc]

Classic.

[Gnomes Byline]

I also have to express there was a lot of pressure on us as well, because I grew up thinking it was our fault that he was in prison because that's what we were taught.

[Lola Blanc]

Like, you just believed that as a community, you all weren't righteous enough and that was the punishment.

[Gnomes Byline]

Yeah, we weren't righteous enough. And I was born and raised under this condemnation. It was directly told you were under condemnation because of all these evil sins, which aren't really good sins at all. Like, I never understood it.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah. Like, what were the sins even, like, you. We were your biggest. The movie you were watching later on when you were rebelling was. Was like a children's vintage movie, you know, like, so what. What were these alleged sins?

[Gnomes Byline]

The alleged sins would be literally anything. Making up stories. Because I wrote tons of novels on the. I didn't know they were novels at the time. We made up stories. Me and my best friend. We would draw pictures a lot, too. It was totally innocent, just to get out of the. Get out of all the pain that was going on inside. So we would make these. We would make up some really hilarious Characters and wrote a lot of stories about them. They're still quite comical even thinking back on it now.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, I want to see.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I want to read these.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah.

[Gnomes Byline]

So we would get into a lot of trouble for that and get our notebooks and art taken away and later banned from us.

[Lola Blanc]

And it was just because it wasn't about the church? Basically.

[Gnomes Byline]

Yes.

[Lola Blanc]

Wow.

[Gnomes Byline]

All this stuff was not accepted in the religion because the only things we could read and write about were scriptures.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Oh, my goodness.

[Lola Blanc]

It just sounds so boring. Like, obviously it's like horrific. Like a horrific level of control and oppression and all of those things. But also it just sounds so boring to not be able to do anything outside of the church.

[Gnomes Byline]

Strangely, it was to do things like this, like make up skits and. And write made up little novels and stuff. It was more of, like a challenge because. And we wouldn't even do it because it was fun. It was. A lot of times we did it because we knew it was wrong. In our mind.

[Lola Blanc]

We were like, you're being rebellious.

[Gnomes Byline]

How can we bend the rules as

[Lola Blanc]

much as we can without getting in

[Gnomes Byline]

trouble and without being ca.

[Lola Blanc]

Right. That's the cutest rebellion.

[Gnomes Byline]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I was about to say, what were they about? But you know what? We have too much to cover.

[Lola Blanc]

We have a lot to cover.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I'll just have to read them for myself.

[Gnomes Byline]

We really should. We've talked about it, like, how we should go back and, like, take those ideas and actually publish them because they were very comical.

[Lola Blanc]

That's a good idea.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yes, please.

[Lola Blanc]

Okay. So basically, life is hell in the town for a while. And when my mom moved to the town, did you know who she was before you met her? Like, what was your relationship to her in the beginning?

[Gnomes Byline]

Actually, the first time I met her was in 2021. And it was when Sam actually introduced her and told her to his little faction. But before that, I never even heard of her. Never knew her. Which is kind of interesting how Sam did go after the people who were the most secluded in the cult.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Gnomes Byline]

And I was one of them. I didn't know anything about her. Never seen or heard about her.

[Lola Blanc]

Okay, so you were already with Sam. So then can you tell us about Sam's transition into sort of saying that he is. So for the folks who haven't watched the docu series yet, which seems crazy at this point, Cause the whole world has changed. Yeah. But Sam Bateman was this. This new guy in town who basically was like, actually, Warren is dead, I guess, and is speaking through me. What Was it? Yeah.

[Gnomes Byline]

It's kind of. Kind of interesting how he came into power. But with me, I don't really know a lot. I mean, except what I've seen and read. And then he. He grew up here, and he grew up flds, and he was kind of. What's the word? Dumb. And kind of like an underdog type of person growing up.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, he was. I mean, the doc so clearly demonstrates how this, like, very schlubby man, he's dorky, leaned into being a psychopath, and it's like, oh, capitalism. Hello. That's. That's how it goes.

[Gnomes Byline]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

Wait, I just have to know about, like, the mentality of, like, you and your family. When this man starts saying, I'm the prophet. Guys, it's not warrant. Like, don't worry about Warren anymore. It's me. Like, what was that like?

[Gnomes Byline]

So I was the only one in my family that was recruited into that. Okay. My family actually went into a different faction of the flds, except one.

[Lola Blanc]

Another offshoot.

[Gnomes Byline]

Yes.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, I didn't realize that.

[Gnomes Byline]

Yeah. So I can explain the flds right now, they're very fragmented, and they. I have this analogy that I draw up about them. It's like this little circle, and inside the circle, then it's split into four different factions, and they're all opposing each other. They're all claiming that Warren Jeffs is still the Prophet. Some of them are claiming that he is translated or dead, like Sam did, and others are claiming that he's speaking to them from prison. It's pretty confusing in the flds, even now. What's strange is these factions are actually opposing each other. So if you talk to someone from a different faction, like my mom, about the Sam situation, then she. She's very against it.

[Lola Blanc]

Right, Right.

[Gnomes Byline]

And she has all the wrong things about Sam. When Warren Jeffs is just the same, and so is the Successor guy. That's over that section of faction.

[Lola Blanc]

Right. Is that the. This is very in the weeds. Sorry. But I know that in the town, there's, like, the side of town that my mom lives on, and then when you cross the highway, there's, like, another offshoot that lives on the other side.

[Gnomes Byline]

Oh, no, that's a different one. Those are. That's a whole different LDS faction thing that's not even part of the flds, but they deal with polygamy. It's another offshoot of the LDS Church, but not the flds.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, my gosh.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Wow.

[Lola Blanc]

There's so many.

[Gnomes Byline]

We call them the Centennialized. Well, how.

[Megan Elizabeth]

How were do you remember your first meeting of Sam?

[Gnomes Byline]

Yes. I think I was 19 at the time, might have been 20. I was around that age. He had been coming out and talking to my caretaker at the time for over a year. And then one day, then my caretaker, which was Liddell, he introduced me to him. And at the time he had only two wives, the first two for Moroni. And he introduced me to Sam. And then after that, then he kept wanting me to go and see him and talk to him. My first impressions were not very good. I was like, he's fat, he's ugly, he's weird. And then I would kind of. I. For a long time, I was very defiant against him. Like, who do you think you are? But within a week after that first meeting, then Sam called me and was. Told me I belonged to him. And he's like, God told me to tell you this, and if you deny it, then you are denying God. And that was when the pressure started. And for over a year, he kept trying to get at me. He would send me messages telling me how bad I was and then only to disappear and then reappear with these declarations of love. And it was very confusing. And then he started threatening me. Don't tell your family. Don't tell anyone. So the only people who knew were Liddell, my caretaker at the time, which had a lot of influence over me because he was like the father figure of my life.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Right.

[Gnomes Byline]

I confided in him. I trusted him at that time.

[Lola Blanc]

And even though you were 19, that was normal in the community to still have a caretaker, like a father figure?

[Gnomes Byline]

Oh, yes. I mean, I have siblings that are still in that are over 30 and they still have a caretaker.

[Lola Blanc]

Wow.

[Gnomes Byline]

And they're still treated as a child, basically. They're still in the juvenile section of the cold because they're not married.

[Lola Blanc]

Right. Because their husband becomes their new caretaker. Oh, my God.

[Gnomes Byline]

Yes. So it's so crazy. And they act like. I mean, if I were to talk to one of my sisters that's in her 30s, I would be talking to a 14 year old. That's her mentality.

[Lola Blanc]

Wow.

[Gnomes Byline]

Wow.

[Megan Elizabeth]

It's so interesting how he was able to kind of trauma bond with you without you even really liking him. Like the intermittent good messages with the bad messages was still enough to, like, cause some dissonance.

[Gnomes Byline]

It was. No, I was still defiant until. Until after I was taken to Lincoln. It took over a year for him to convince me. And even then, it wasn't really a choice. I was gonna say by the time, yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

I was gonna say, isn't it, like, whose choice actually, is it like, because Liddell was your caretaker, was he technically allowed to make that decision for you or you did have to, like, how did it work?

[Gnomes Byline]

He technically was. And he, in the end then they pretty much commanded me or demanded me that this is what you're going to do.

[Lola Blanc]

What was that like?

[Gnomes Byline]

So during the time he was putting a lot of pressure on me then he was getting more and more wives and a lot of the minor girls even were with him before me. And then he started using them to recruit me. And he would have these 15 year olds and these 9 year olds calling me and damning me, saying really horrible things, telling me how bad and wicked I was, texting me constantly. He used them to recruit me after he broke them.

[Lola Blanc]

So basically he put the fear that you were basically facing eternal damnation if you didn't become one of his wives.

[Gnomes Byline]

Yes. And then he started to threaten my family.

[Lola Blanc]

How so?

[Gnomes Byline]

I remember him talking things about my mom, what was going to happen to her and it would be my fault if I didn't go to him.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, my gosh.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Wow.

[Gnomes Byline]

That was when I couldn't take it. Then he started threatening my. To take my younger sister. And that was a lot.

[Lola Blanc]

It's exactly the quality you want in a husband. Someone who's threatening your family.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Gnomes Byline]

Which is kind of. It's kind of ironic, but I. Yeah, my little sister wasn't involved and that was a lot to keep her out of that. So toward the end, it was the end of 2020, was when one night, Sam and Lud talked to me for six hours.

[Lola Blanc]

Wow.

[Gnomes Byline]

And then afterwards, Lud told me how he had seen me reject God this many times or whatever. And that was when I caved and I said, whatever, I'll go, oh, my gosh. And he immediately, immediately jumped on that and then was saying, this is something you're choosing, right. You chose this. This is something you want. You are choosing this. He did not stop once. He drove me all the way to Lincoln, Nebraska, because Sam was living in Lincoln, Nebraska at the time and handed me off.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, my gosh.

[Gnomes Byline]

And then he was rewarded with another woman.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Wow.

[Lola Blanc]

Did you have dreams of falling in love with someone prior to this?

[Gnomes Byline]

There was a boy that I started like hitting on and he was actually in the centennial group. That wasn't even flds. Didn't even grow up on flds. And we started getting a little bit close and he started telling me a little bit about the outside world more. Even though he's kind of in a situation, but it was. He was more exposed than me. It was during the time I worked out the airport and his dad had a plane out there. And I started getting, like, curious more. And that was the only thing. But before that, then it wasn't really romantic thoughts because I didn't know how to have those. Didn't even think I had a choice in that matter.

[Lola Blanc]

Well, yeah, because you've been told this whole time that marriages are forbidden. And I have to imagine that there would be a lot of conflicting feelings because as far as you've always been told you're not supposed to get married, and now this guy's saying, no, you have to get married, and if you don't get married, actually, you're sinning. And like, wow. I just, like the amount of cognitive dissonance and confusing thoughts. Was that really intense?

[Gnomes Byline]

It was. It was very intense. I felt like I was being shredded in four different directions because there was my mom going into another faction, there was my caretaker pushing me into this. And then none of them were anything that I actually wanted.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Oh, my God.

[Gnomes Byline]

And then I had my best friends that were leaving altogether.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, really?

[Gnomes Byline]

And, like, who?

[Lola Blanc]

Who?

[Gnomes Byline]

They were my newts and friends. Okay. So it was a very confusing time. And I didn't know what was right, what was wrong, and if it even mattered at that point.

[Lola Blanc]

Right. Oh, my gosh. So they wear you down, basically. Like, break you down for six hours and immediately ship you off. I mean, what the heck? Like, so you arrive there and then what is your life? Like? Suddenly you're Sam's wife.

[Gnomes Byline]

It was really creepy. The whole. There was no ceremony. There was literally nothing. What happened is I was taken in there. It was 4 o' clock in the morning by the time we got there, and the three men were there, and they basically had me kneel down in a circle with them. And then they put their hands on me and stuff and chanted some things up to God. And therefore, I was Sam's wife.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Wow.

[Gnomes Byline]

And he could do whatever he wanted to me.

[Lola Blanc]

What year Was that?

[Gnomes Byline]

Late 2020. November of 2020.

[Lola Blanc]

But you guys then came back to live in Short Creek at some point?

[Gnomes Byline]

Yeah. And in 2021, after he had us all compliant and broken down was when he finally. He moved us all back down to the border of Arizona and Utah and introduced us to Christina.

[Lola Blanc]

Tolga, can I ask, what was the process of breaking you down like? And you don't have to get into too much detail or anything traumatic or anything. Were there, like, Specific tactics that you can think of now that he would use.

[Gnomes Byline]

They're very explicit. Okay. They weren't like, for me, trying to think of a way to explain it without going too deep into it because it was very traumatic. Right. At first I was very defiant. And he would, like, several times he wanted me to get up in the family classes and bear my testimony. And I would tell him, like, I don't have one, I don't want to talk about it. And I'm here because you're forced me to be here. And then one day he just came on top of me and I knew nothing about anything sexual. And I spent the rest of the day crying in the bathroom, feeling very dirty, and then not caring. And so there was quite a few months where I didn't care anymore. And I even remember telling him, I'm just a rag on the end of a stick. Do with me what you will. And he would with a lot of things. And then. So after the not caring, then you get Stockholm syndrome because there's no way to escape it. But there was quite a few months where I didn't care.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, my gosh, I'm so sorry, gnomes.

[Gnomes Byline]

I didn't care if I lived or died. It just existed.

[Lola Blanc]

The abuse that you endured is so.

[Megan Elizabeth]

It's. It's unbearable.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, yeah. And it makes, it puts into context like, you know, watching. So I've only known you since you came out of jail. I know I've. I met you like, right when you came out of jail, which I can't wait to talk about. But, but so for me, you know, watching the series, I never saw you in that context. I never saw you with Sam. And it's like you're a different person, you know, Like, I know you to be the fiery, you know, like, strong headed person that you are. And then I see you with Sam and it's like, yeah, it's like it's just a completely different person. And it puts into context how you got there and the way that he abused you into becoming that compliant, you know, and, you know, I don't want you to ever share anything that, you know, we can, we can take that out also if you. If you want, but I'm just.

[Gnomes Byline]

It's okay. Like, that's. That touches the iceberg of what happened.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, yeah.

[Gnomes Byline]

Oh, my gosh, it is okay that, that's in there. But yeah, okay. He was abusive and not in front of the cameras, though. And our lives were a threat. And in the end, it just got more and more intense.

[Megan Elizabeth]

It always escalates.

[Lola Blanc]

Wow.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Even when you think it can't.

[Gnomes Byline]

In the documentary, it doesn't go over the blood atonements that he started getting into and the threats. And he would. He started planning Liddell's and Moroni's deaths and how he was going to kill them.

[Lola Blanc]

I remember this.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I don't.

[Gnomes Byline]

He started training Moroni's daughters in this.

[Lola Blanc]

Can I contextualize blood atonement for one second? So the early leaders of the original LDS Mormon Church, there was a doctrine called blood atonement, which was basically the idea that there were certain sins that were so serious that the only way to atone for them was to have your blood spilled.

[Gnomes Byline]

Yeah. And they had to be spilled by the prophet.

[Lola Blanc]

Right, right, right. So some offshoot prophets, quote, unquote, have like, latched onto this doctrine and used it as justification. There have been other sections where people actually were killed under the. With the justification of, like, it was necessary because of blood atonement. So that's what blood atonement is.

[Megan Elizabeth]

So people were just thinking they were letting out some blood and they accidentally die.

[Gnomes Byline]

No, they were straight up murdered.

[Lola Blanc]

It's killed.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Oh, my God. Okay. Yeah, okay, okay.

[Lola Blanc]

But that's the. It's like the nice way of putting it. Oh, well, we just have to spill their blood, you know, but it means they have to be killed. Okay. So, you know, in the Mormon Church, that hasn't actually. In the mainstream Mormon Church, that's not actually been a thing. It was just sort of a doctrine that some old guy had put in there. But in some certain, like, extreme offshoots, it's been utilized.

[Gnomes Byline]

Yes.

[Lola Blanc]

So he starts talking about blood atonement.

[Gnomes Byline]

Yes.

[Lola Blanc]

Why?

[Gnomes Byline]

That's a very interesting question, because even I never understood why. He did tell us that it had to do with him. Had to do with the other man lusting after his women. And it was. It was a complete jealousy tactic. Yeah. But he was getting very severe in it. And then he started saying things to us about if we weren't perfectly compliant and obedient, then one day we would be crawling on our hands and knees to him and begging him to spill our blood.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, my God.

[Gnomes Byline]

It was getting very intense toward the end. He even had. He had me get this life insurance policy that was 1.5 million, and if I were to die, he would collect that money. So consciously, I didn't think about this until prison. And I was like, everything was coming down. I'm like, oh, my God. My life was at risk. And I was just doing Everything he wanted. And I was trying so hard to live up to the expectations.

[Lola Blanc]

Wow. The pressure.

[Gnomes Byline]

And here he was. I'm literally planning my death. It was crazy.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, my God. And he's, like, openly talking about the men. Like, I. I remember hearing from my mom at the time. Like, he is talking about blood, atonement and Moroni. Like, he is talking more and more and more about basically killing Moroni.

[Gnomes Byline]

Yes. He would openly talk about it. About Moroni and Liddell.

[Lola Blanc]

Um. That is so scary. That is so scary.

[Gnomes Byline]

Yes.

[Megan Elizabeth]

It's giving me the chills even now to like. Like, even though you're safe, it's just still. It's like, whoa. Whoa.

[Gnomes Byline]

It is something that still scares me when I think about the threats. I was under the pressure, and the only way to survive was get closer to him.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

I mean, I wish they. They had included that in the doc. I understand why they didn't. Because it was such limited time. There was so much to cover. Like, there's so much information.

[Gnomes Byline]

Yeah. They had 300 hours of footage, and they. To cram it all in a very accurate storyline. It does barely touch the basis of what happened.

[Lola Blanc]

It's true.

[Gnomes Byline]

But to get it all in four hours is honestly incredible.

[Lola Blanc]

I know. I know. I watched the first episode with. I made some friends come over to watch it with me because I was like, I can't watch this by myself. And after the first episode, we were like, whoa. That was so much information. Like, it's so much stuff. Like, they managed to jam pack so much in there. But, yeah, so, like, I understand why it was. Why it was not included. But also, like, happening in the background of all of this is there are threats being made actively against people's lives. So of course, then you're gonna be like, whatever you say, dear Prophet. Ha ha. You're. Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Cause you're a really smart girl, so you just kind of turned it on.

[Gnomes Byline]

And the interesting thing was is at the time, I. I didn't consciously think a lot of this stuff. It was mostly subconscious and just observing and not daring to stand up and say anything. That actually one of the reasons why I even started having suspicions about Christine and Tolga was actually Mikel. She couldn't not tell me because we were so close before. And even though I was so controlled by sand, I went to Mikel and expressed my concerns because he had blown me off and didn't believe me. So I went to Mikel and I said something to Mikel, and Mikel was like, yeah, they're not. They're not who you think they are. But I was too terrified to tell Sam.

[Lola Blanc]

People might not know who Mikel is yet because she wasn't in the doc.

[Gnomes Byline]

Oh, I'll explain. Mikel was a cousin that I grew up. She's Liddell's youngest sister, and she grew up from the ages of 10 till now. Then we have been very close friends.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Very.

[Gnomes Byline]

We were. Until the Sam thing. Then Sam kind of pitted us against each other for those years in the Sam situation. Then she was treated very horribly because she was actually one of the. One of the first people that came out to the FBI. It wasn't discussed in the documentary because she wasn't ready to talk about it at the time of the filming. But she's coming out more and more now. But she. She stepped forward before Julia even.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Gnomes Byline]

And she was helping Christine. She was getting a lot of inside information and even. A lot. A lot more than even what Julia was doing.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah. Mikel was a huge part of the

[Gnomes Byline]

story because she was one of the wives.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Oh, she was one of the wives.

[Gnomes Byline]

She was the 22nd wife.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Oh, my goodness. How many wives did he get to wash?

[Gnomes Byline]

20, 25. Okay.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah. I'm excited that Mikel is starting to

[Gnomes Byline]

tell her experience because she's been under a lot of pressure from local people that kind of had silenced her until now. Then she's finally coming out and talking about it, which I'm so proud of her.

[Lola Blanc]

Me, too. And we're gonna have her on, and we're gonna make her sing a song. And you should, too, if you want, because you both have such beautiful voices. But anyway,

[Gnomes Byline]

not the same.

[Lola Blanc]

Like, when we.

[Gnomes Byline]

When we're down there live. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

You don't have to do it on Zoom.

[Megan Elizabeth]

No, yeah, live. Live.

[Gnomes Byline]

But, yeah, so this is. That's who Mikel is. We were very close. We grew up best friends, and we're best friends again. And I just love her so much. Anyway, back to the story. She was the first one that told me. Actually admitted to me that, yes, Christine is not who you think she is. But I was too scared to tell Sam at that point.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Well, you had told Sam, and he was like, shut up. I know what. Yeah, I know what to trust. And if you. You trust me and I trust them. So you're wrong, and you're like, okay, then.

[Gnomes Byline]

Yeah. It was like, God has told me to trust them. And so if you're not trusting me to trust them, then this and that cancer will happen.

[Lola Blanc]

Just his pure narcissism.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

Because he just wanted to keep getting filmed.

[Gnomes Byline]

Whatever God he was talking to in that moment, good for.

[Lola Blanc]

Honestly, on.

[Gnomes Byline]

The crowds before that were just downright brutal.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. Well, as an outsider looking in, watching this documentary, I was like. Because I didn't know the end. I didn't know, you know, when I saw you sit down. Well, I don't know if I'm going to get that away to people who haven't watched it yet, but I was like, what? I couldn't believe it because you seemed like the one most in love with him, that believed him the most. Of course I know this is not to be true now, but I was like, oh, I think she really believes what he's saying.

[Gnomes Byline]

I did. That's the sad part. I. I look back on that, and it's. It's kind of strange because I don't know how to remember what was going on. As if I'm experienced. I see I still in my mind. And even at the time, I was so disassociated and so numb that my memories are in third person.

[Lola Blanc]

Whoa.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Wow. Whoa. Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

So what was it about my mom and Tolka that made you guys think she shouldn't be trusted?

[Gnomes Byline]

It was only me that started thinking that. Yeah, just little. Little hints that happened. For instance, when there was a time that they came over and she had had us all distracted in the living room with Sam. And it was. I think it was that time where he was telling her about all these bizarre goals that he had.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, like with the queen?

[Gnomes Byline]

Yes. In the marble palace and all this stuff? Yeah, they were crazy. But it was during that time that I stepped outside with some of, like, the kids, the tiny children. And Tolgo was standing there with this drone, and he was kind of videoing and droning the blue house and the greenhouse, and those were my first curiosities. Like, what's he doing? Why is he doing this? This is so weird. Like, Sam didn't know anything about it, obviously, because he would have said something. So that was the first time I started having questions. And then there was several other little things that happened. For instance, there was a time in Flagstaff after his first arrest, and Christine was talking to Tolga off camera. She said something about, I really need a new phone. And then when the raid happened, the FBI took her new phone, and she still had her other phone.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh.

[Gnomes Byline]

Because they came in and took everybody's phones, and then they took her new one. And in my mind, I was thinking, her new one doesn't have anything on it.

[Lola Blanc]

Right. And again, if folks haven't watched the docuseries, what happened? In a nutshell, my mom and my stepdad earned the trust of Sam and began filming. And then they played on his ego. Played on his ego?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Well, he was a really good mountain climb climber. Runner,

[Gnomes Byline]

Actually. I'm gonna, like, toot my horn right here. Like, some of those videos that I was taking. Were you? Yes. And I didn't even know what was happening. What happened was during that situation then, now looking back and talking to Kristen and Toga, then they've told me they tried so hard to get me alone because they knew if Sam was targeting me, then I would be the one that I don't know. Then they felt like she's the one that we would need to get on our side, you know? Anyway, so they were trying to get me alone, which Sam never allowed me to be alone, even when I would go out and he would always have at least four other girls and women. Like, we always had to be in this group.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Wow.

[Gnomes Byline]

We were spies. And I was like always spying on each other. Right. Like, he kept us in this tight knit group. Anyway, so they were trying to get me alone and Toga found out that I loved cameras and I was very fascinated with them. And so he gave me some tips on cameras and. And he said something about like, do you want to help me video this? So I was like, yeah. So the parts where Toga's in the vid, in the camera, on those hiking scenes, then that was me.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I was wondering about that when it

[Gnomes Byline]

has both of them in it. Yes.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, cool.

[Gnomes Byline]

You did an incredible job. But it didn't work. Yeah, their plan to get me alone did not work because this is a time. This is also another thing that I feel like Sam knew, but I mean, he knew that once I did get alone and start thinking for myself, then I would have come out of it.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Right.

[Gnomes Byline]

Because I remember that night telling him about, like, Toga told me this and that and the other about the cameras. And I was like, so excited. And I was like. He said he would teach me how to take pictures or these professional pictures and video more professionally. And Sam said, no, that is not gonna happen.

[Lola Blanc]

Well, because God forbid you get your own interests and start to think for yourself or think about anything besides him.

[Gnomes Byline]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

We're gonna leave part one with gnomes right there. And if you come back next week, you will get to hear part two. There is so much to talk about. Yeah. She has gone through so much and I am just so impressed by her.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. Part two is really, really good. Can't wait for y' all to hear it. If you liked part one, go. Rate us five stars wherever you get your podcasts and leave us a nice little message. If you don't like it, then just don't do anything. It's fine. Just stay away from all the ratings.

[Lola Blanc]

You don't need to say anything at all.

[Megan Elizabeth]

You don't need to say anything at all. And as always, remember to follow your gut. Watch out for red flags and never ever trust me.

[Lola Blanc]

Bye. This has been an exactly right production

[Megan Elizabeth]

hosted by me, Lola Blanc and me, Megan Elizabeth. Our senior producer is Jiha Lee.

[Lola Blanc]

This episode was mixed by John Bradley,

[Megan Elizabeth]

our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain and our guest booker is Patrick Kutner.

[Lola Blanc]

Our theme song was composed by Holly Amber Church.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Trust Me is executive produced by Karen Kilgareth, Georgia Hardstark and Danielle Kramer.

[Lola Blanc]

You can find us on Instagram usme podcast or on TikTok at trustmecultpodcast.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Got your own story about cults, extreme belief or manipulation? Shoot us an [e-mail] Listen to Trust

[Lola Blanc]

Me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Gnomes Byline]

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[Lola Blanc]

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[Gnomes Byline]

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