Nomzia Bistline, Part 2 - Raided by the FBI, Life in Prison, and Breaking Free From Sam Bateman

Summary

Trust Me: Cults, Extreme Belief, and Manipulation
Episode: Nomzia Bistline, Part 2 – Raided by the FBI, Life in Prison, and Breaking Free From Sam Bateman
Date: May 13, 2026
Hosts: Lola Blanc and Meagan Elizabeth
Guest: Nomzia “Gnomes” Bistline

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Episode Overview

This compelling episode continues the story of Nomzia Bistline, a survivor of Sam Bateman’s FLDS offshoot and a focal figure in the Netflix docuseries Trust Me: The False Prophet. Hosts Lola Blanc and Meagan Elizabeth—cult survivors themselves—guide Gnomes through a detailed, raw account of being raided by the FBI, the ensuing trauma, her time in prison, the painful deconstruction of her faith, and ultimately, her liberation and newfound identity. The episode offers rare first-person perspective on the insidious power of cult leaders, the failures of systems meant to help, and the hard-won hope of rebuilding a life outside.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Immediate Fallout: The FBI Raid

• [15:08] Lola prompts Gnomes to describe the day of the raid, which was “very traumatic, very chaotic.”

  “We were all desperate and terrified, especially being told against the government, being trained and taught and raised, thinking these people are always going to be out to get us.” – Gnomes [15:23]

• Gnomes recalls Sam Bateman’s escalating paranoia, instructing followers to lie or stay silent, and Tolga’s (another adult involved) attempts to encourage honesty.

• “Toga really tried to warn Sam that he was doing the wrong...I think that Tolga was very, very disturbed with Sam, and it was all he could do not to strangle him.” – Gnomes [17:06]

2. Sam Bateman’s Queen of England Obsession

• [18:00] Gnomes expands on Bateman’s bizarre claim: he dreamt of being with the Queen of England, convinced he’d marry her and become King.

  “He started talking about how the Queen of England belonged to him, belonged in his family. And then he started saying things like, he’s going to marry the Queen of England, and therefore he would be King of England.” – Gnomes [19:01]

• Pattern repeated with other women; anyone Bateman admired was declared destined to become his wife.

3. Consequences for Questioning the Prophet

• Gnomes describes her hesitation and the price of even small doubts.

  “I was tempted to think evil of you because every girl you see...they suddenly belong to you.” [20:38]

• Bateman responded by banishing her to a box trailer as punishment for questioning him.

  “He would tell me why it was because I was questioning him. And he would say, like, because you think you’re smarter than me? Well, technically, I was accurately on any scale.” – Gnomes [21:18]

4. The Structure of Power & Enablers

• The hosts and Gnomes note Bateman wasn't a singular charismatic force; his enablers and followers were crucial.

  “All of the women he had were from either those men’s daughters or...their caretakers.” – Gnomes [23:36]

• The enabling network “fed the monster.”

5. Aftermath: The Foster Care Escape Orchestrated from Prison

• After the raid, nine underage girls taken as Bateman’s “wives” went into foster care and repeatedly ran away—with adult followers’ help, on Bateman’s orders.

  “He kept telling them to. They actually ran away like four times before that...Sam had us all cut all communication.” – Gnomes [27:08]

• Systemic failures are dissected by hosts and guest, including authorities disclosing whistleblowers’ identities and allowing Sam to control the girls from jail.

6. Flight, Arrest, and the Confusion of Cult-Induced Obedience

• [31:32] Gnomes shares that after police questioned her about the missing girls, her body acted before her mind caught up: she ran into the mountains, not fully comprehending why she was under arrest.

  “The next memory I had, I was running in the mountains and I started thinking, why am I under arrest? What did I do? And am I really running from the cops? Like, this is wild.” – Gnomes [32:07]

• After a freezing night hiding, she eventually turned herself in.

7. Life and Awakening in Prison

• Gnomes describes early days in jail: confusion, isolation, and culture shock; even relief that the cycle of Bateman’s control was interrupted.

  “I was really glad to be in there because it was over, and I wasn’t talking about...I was again, I wasn’t against Sam at the moment. I was more, like, thinking, God is going to justify me not having to do what he’s saying because I’m in here.” [34:10]

• Culture shock on meeting myriad inmates after a lifetime of sameness.
• Victim of violence soon after arrival; spent weeks in segregation.

8. The Process of Deconstruction

• Gnomes’s deconstruction began with reading—religious texts, then a pivotal self-help book:

  “I started reading self-help books and that was when I started to question things...One that I really gravitated toward...The Pathway to Surrender, Letting Go...The whole book was about owning the truth.” [39:08]

• Gradually allowed herself to question—first Bateman, then FLDS leader Warren Jeffs, uncovering a lifetime of manipulation.

  “It wasn’t until that court hearing and that time...listening to him talk to me for four hours and just lie after lie...I started recognizing, he’s lying to me. That’s a lie, right?” [40:55]

9. Final Break from Bateman

• In an extraordinary moment, Gnomes confronts Sam Bateman in jail after realizing the scale of his lies:

  “When I was walking away, the last words that I ever said to him is, ‘You lie to me.’ And that was the last things I have ever said.” [42:17]

10. Darkness, Depression, and Healing

• Deconstruction brought pain and despair; Gnomes contemplates suicide, faces profound alienation, and begins trauma therapy.

  “The next few months were very dark for me. Yeah. Attempted suicide. It was just the grief, the loss, and knowing I’m never going back to any...flds.” [44:02]

• Therapy and eventually opening up to the FBI marked a turning point.

11. Testifying and Re-Entering the World

• After release, Gnomes testified in trials against cult enablers—immediately after leaving prison—and struggled intensely with re-adapting to life.

  “Being reintroduced to society, but not just introduced to society, but to a new life that I had never experienced. Plus five days later, sitting on the stand talking about this very sensitive, horrific things...” [51:54]

• Overwhelmed by freedom and choices; created a “My First Time Book” to chronicle new experiences.

  “Started this book called My first time book...Different tickets and receipts of different things that I tried for the first time.” [55:31]

12. Reconnection and Support

• Initially furious at Christine (Lola’s mom, and the FBI informant), Gnomes’ perspective shifted after hearing Christine’s story on the Trust Me podcast.

  “I listened to that on the way down to Phoenix and had an entire paradigm shift...our lives are so similar. She went through the exact same experiences as me.” [57:05]

• Their subsequent reconnection was profound and deeply healing.

13. Life Now and Future Aims

• Despite local hostility, Gnomes reports overwhelming national and global support after participating in the Netflix docuseries.

  “I was expecting more hate...but it has been the exact opposite of that, except with a lot of local people.” [61:54]

• She is pursuing singing (with support from coaches and producers), advocacy, and storytelling.
• Strong desire to help other survivors:

  “I want to prove that you can recover from really horrible things that happened in your past. You can recover. It takes a lot of work inside, but it’s possible.” [63:25]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Surviving and Recovery

  “You lie to me.” – Gnomes, last words to Sam Bateman [42:17]
  “If they can, I can, too.” – Gnomes on drawing strength from other cult escapees [64:30]

• Advice for Those Still In

  “The best thing to do is not talk against their perpetrator directly, but try to drop hints that are parallel until they come to their own conclusion.” [64:41]

• Resonance with ‘Vampire’ by Olivia Rodrigo

  “He did. He sold me for parts. And yeah, he—everything about that song, I just resonated with it.” [49:26]

• Moments of Dark Humor and Irony

  “You have to go to prison to get your freedom.” – Lola, summing up the paradoxical journey [34:32]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [15:08] – The FBI Raid and Sam’s escalating paranoia
• [18:00] – The Queen of England delusion
• [20:38] – Punishment for questioning Bateman
• [27:03] – Foster care escape, system failures
• [31:32] – The moment of running from the police
• [34:10] – Relief at the end of Bateman’s control
• [39:08] – The role of self-help books in deconstruction
• [42:17] – Final confrontation and break with Bateman
• [44:02] – Despair, suicide attempt, and starting therapy
• [51:54] – Testifying in court immediately after release
• [55:31] – “My first time book” & experiencing the outside world
• [57:05] – Paradigm shift and reconnecting with Christine
• [61:54] – Life after, advocacy, and future hopes

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Final Reflections

Gnomes’s story is one of staggering difficulty and extraordinary resilience. From trauma and betrayal to the slow, painful disentanglement from a cult mentality, she found liberation in unexpected places—books, therapy, art, and the solidarity of fellow survivors. The conversation exposes not only the mechanics of manipulation and systemic failures, but also the power of truth, questioning, and community in the aftermath. Her journey now is one of advocacy, music, and proof that healing, though arduous, is truly possible.

To follow Gnomes and her ongoing work:

• Instagram / TikTok: @gnomesiab

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If you or someone you know needs help escaping a high-control group, professional support and specialized organizations are available. As Gnomes’s journey shows, hope and new beginnings are possible—even after unthinkable experiences.

Transcript

[A]

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[C]

taco Bell locations for a limited time

[B]

and while supplies last.

[C]

Trust me. Do you trust me?

[B]

Would I ever lead you astray?

[D]

Trust Me.

[C]

The truth, the only truth.

[A]

If anybody ever tells you to just trust them, don't. Welcome to Trust Me, the podcast about cults, extreme belief and manipulation from two queens of England who've actually experienced it.

[D]

I'm Lola Blanc. And I'm Megan Elizabeth.

[A]

And today is part two with my family friend Gnomes. Byline from the Netflix docu series Trust Me the False Prophet, which centers around largely my mother, Christine Marie. This week Gnomes is going to share what it was like getting raided by the FBI, how she felt about my mom when she learned that she was the FBI informant and why the so called prophet Samuel Bateman was obsessed with marrying the Queen of England.

[D]

She'll tell us about the events leading up to her time in jail, how she began the painful process of deconstructing while in prison and what life has been like since getting out and finally being free of Samuel Bateman. Thank God.

[A]

Thank God. Yeah. Before we get into this second part of Noam's story, which is just like, it's so compelling that what she has been through and how much she has been able to deconstruct in such a short amount of time and like, I mean you're all gonna, you're, you're about to hear it, but just. It's very impressive. I'm very impressed by her chills.

[D]

She's unbelievable.

[A]

Yeah. Before we get into that, all of that with gnomes. Megan, I must know what your cultiest thing of this week is.

[D]

Okay, my cultiest thing of this week is pretty personal, actually. This is a firsthand experience. Are you ready to hear it?

[A]

I'm ready.

[D]

Okay. So I'm moving already a stressful situation. We often find that people join cults when somebody dies or when they're having to move or big life changes. So just something to note, you know what I mean? I have to move, right? So I'm looking online, I'm looking online and I'm emailing people and. And I'm looking at apartments. And the first house that I like says, come on over and look at it. Okay. This is the first house I'm looking at. So I first noticed something was weird when the person I was texting with was like, okay, you may now move on to the man of the home's text message. So the first person I was texting with didn't even live in the house, right?

[A]

Oh.

[D]

And I was like, oh, okay. So now I'm speaking to the person who lives there. And it's a cute house. I'm excited to go look at it. I give one of our mutual guy friends my location in case something bad happens. Which looking back, it's like, what could he possibly do? He wouldn't even notice I was missing for like a month.

[A]

But

[D]

I felt I was taking all the safety precautions. I get to the house, this very nice looking seeming man, very polite, opens the gate. Hello. The first thing I notice is that there is a semi truck made of clear glass.

[A]

Huh?

[C]

Yeah, that's.

[A]

I show him, like, picture that. Okay, that sounds cool. Yeah.

[D]

So I go, what's that? And he says, sometimes we do karaoke in it. People do like individualized garage sales out of it. And I'm like, cute. Look at the pool. Let's get. Show me the pool. Right? We go look at the pool. Yes, there's a pool obsessed. And on our way to the pool, I see this little statue of an alien. And I'm like, oh, my God, he's so cute. Like, it's a very intricate statue. He's like, really? And I was like, yeah, I love him. You know, like, aliens better come save us soon.

[C]

Ha.

[D]

And he's like, yeah. And I was like, great. So then we get into the house and he's showing me my room, and it's a cute room. I'm looking around, I look out one of the windows, and I see on this clear box, semi truck, a like, phrase that seems rather culty with an alien on it. And the alien is wearing a crown of thorns.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Oh, no.

[D]

So like a Jesus.

[A]

What kind of alien? Like, what's the look of the alien?

[D]

A gray. Like, just a normal gray.

[A]

Like peace sign style. Like, big head, big eyes.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Okay.

[D]

I mean, it wasn't doing normal.

[A]

Just a normal style.

[D]

But I was like, oh, dear. For some reason, I'm still interested in the room.

[A]

Makes sense. The salt tracks for you.

[D]

So I'm like, we're measuring it together, But I am at the same time rather anxious. So I had like an iced coffee with me, and it was doing a lot of prop work. Like, I kept shaking it a lot. Kind of like holding it very much in between us. And I was just a little nervous, right? So then he's like, do you want to see the storage room?

[A]

And you said, yes.

[D]

And I was like, sure. I would love some place to keep my Christmas decorations. True. I would. I'm in a new place now and they're just sitting out. I would love a storage room. Takes me down to the storage room. Life sized alien on a cross.

[A]

Stop. First of all, Megan, I can't believe you went down into the storage room with this strange man in the house with the aliens with the crowns of thorns. Like, what the hell?

[D]

He was really nice.

[C]

Okay?

[D]

And I.

[A]

There's an alien on a crop. Like, how big? Are we talking, like, life size, life sized alien on a cross? Yes.

[C]

Oh, my God.

[D]

Oh, that's cool. And this iced coffee is now just, like, propping around like, I'm shaking it. I'm like, whoop, whoop, whoop. And he's like, yeah, you know, like, he's kind of proud of it, right? And I was like, well, I got a lot more places to see today. This place is great. You'll be hearing from me soon. And I leave and I walk out to my car and I call you, and you're like, that's insane. And there's a part of me that's still like, but I like the room.

[A]

Wait, did we learn, like, what the deal is?

[D]

Oh, of course. It's very easy to Google. And, you know, please just don't, because I don't want him to be mad at me.

[C]

But I did.

[D]

I told someone the story and they were like, oh, it's this church. And I. I do think he might be the leader of it. I'm not looking too deeply into it. And everyone was like. My friends were like, you should do, like, a thing where you move in. Like, kind of like your mom with the gnomes and, you know, Sam Bateman stuff. Like, you just start documenting it. And I was like, no, because I would join it.

[A]

I mean, yes, you would join it. Especially because you love living amongst other people in, like, a communal. With the communal vibe. Like, you love that.

[D]

And an alien.

[A]

I mean, yeah, but. So it's a religion.

[D]

It's a religion. There's like a.

[C]

There's a building.

[D]

There's a. You know, people are saying, like, it's coercive. Some people are saying it's lovely.

[C]

So.

[D]

Wow. The one last thing I'll add is that he did ask for my Instagram and I sent it to him, and the bio is just like, cult hunting. So I'm like, his, mine.

[A]

Oh, yours, yours? I was like, what? Okay, that makes sense.

[D]

It used to say that maybe it says, like, getting culty or, like, I don't know. So I'm like, he doesn't think he's in a cult, right? He's like, who cares if this girl likes looking at cults? This isn't a cult. Because it's the right correct thing. I mean, I was just like, whoa. Wow.

[A]

Wow. Well, I'm really sad you didn't move in.

[D]

So am I. Honestly, the pool was really, really good. It was cold. Otherwise it didn't have a heater. Otherwise, I'll be honest, I would be living there. Also, like, a carpet situation. I don't know. But. But listen, I didn't move in. I'm not going to move in. I really hope he doesn't get mad at me because he was so, so nice and polite and showed me around, and I don't feel totally comfortable, like, talking about somebody like that, but it was just too weird. The whole concept of this podcast, trust me, is that you and I have both been involved in cult groups. What are the odds that the first house that I look at is going to be a cult? Apparently very high, because it was.

[A]

That's crazy. It's like you knew.

[D]

It just was calling to you, the first one.

[A]

Yeah, well, you didn't move in, so that's the first step.

[D]

I didn't move in.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Old me would have moved in without planning to be doing a documentary on it. So just small steps. Small steps, yes. What about you? What's your cultiest thing of the week? Lola?

[A]

Mine is just that I found out that A24 the film production company that has a cult following in a very different way from the way we traditionally

[C]

use the word cult.

[A]

Obviously more just a rabid fan base or whatever.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

They now have a theater and a restaurant in New York.

[D]

Oh, no. Restaurants are the gateway.

[A]

They're the gateway, and they're expanding the brand to have all of these other cultural things that have nothing to do with the movies. And listen, I am like, I know it's, like, not as cool anymore because they're so big now, but I still am a total, a 24 fan girl. And I would. I want to direct movies for them so badly. So what I'm actually saying is the. The line between cool brand and unhealthy fixation on brand levels of cultiness, like, it can be very blurry. I definitely still very much am obsessed with this brand. And if anyone wants to let me in, listen, I'm joining.

[D]

They make. They make incredible things. And I will say, like, obviously, they aren't a cult, I don't think.

[A]

No, but cult following, which is different.

[C]

Yeah, but.

[D]

But it is worth noting to listeners that restaurants are the gateway drugs of cults. They love opening a restaurant. So whenever you see a religion or a movement, say, we got a restaurant. You can still eat there if it's good, but just beware.

[A]

But listen, there are people quoted in this Hollywood Reporter article which is called 24 hours inside the cult of a 24, which came out today, written by Julian Sancton. There are quotes from people who, like, are attending some of these event, who are like, I would do anything to work for a 24. You know, like, the. The brand loyalty is so strong that, like, I get why they titled it that. I mean, they. Listen, they do really make the best movies. Like, they just are really good movies, obviously.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

And I'm gonna make one one day. And when we do our inevitable east coast trust Me trip, for some reason, we will go to the restaurant and we will report back.

[D]

Yeah. Let's have our live show at the A24 restaurant.

[A]

Oh, my God. Totally.

[D]

Thank you.

[A]

Good job. All right, should we start talking to gnomes now?

[D]

I think we absolutely must.

[A]

Let's do it.

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[D]

Okay, so can we talk about diff eyewear for a second? Because I'm a little obsessed. They have the cutest sunglasses and prescription frames and honestly the vibe is like whatever you're feeling that day, there's a pair for it. Chill day.

[A]

Got you going out.

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That's diffiwear.com you're welcome.

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[A]

Okay, so up until the raid, you're like Tolga and Christina are a little sus. And then the raid, raid happens. Which first of all was that like insanely traumatic? Like what, what did you think on the day of the raid?

[C]

Yes, it was very traumatic, very chaotic. We were all desperate and terrified, especially being told against the the government being trained and taught and raised, thinking these people are always going to be out to get us. Right then it was terrifying. And I believe Sam knew before they came because the the few weeks between his first arrest and the raid, then he was very paranoid and he started clamping down. They were the most intense weeks and he started telling us how to respond to these police officers and he started talking about they're going to try to take me from you. And he would talk about lying like hell if we had to or answer them nothing, right? And I remember him getting very adamant, very aggressive about that and we were still clueless. What was going to happen?

[A]

Was it the. Do you think it was the arrest with the trailer that triggered his paranoia? Like, what. What do you think was making him so paranoid?

[C]

I'm not sure. I do. I do remember him saying things that. I remember Tolga even saying things. Toga, like, just. Just tell the truth. Just tell him everything. Because, yes, after the first arrest, and he was really paranoid, and then Toga started dropping these huge hints that I'm shocked that he didn't catch on to, because Toga would be like, yep, they're going to come in and take you and just tell the truth. And he would also say. Say things like, have the younger girls with their mothers, like, send them back with the moms. Don't. Don't have anything to do with them. He tried. Toga really tried to warn Sam that he was doing the wrong. And thinking back now, I think that Tolga was very, very disturbed with Sam, and he. It was all he could do not to strangle him.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

Yes.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Makes sense. Yeah.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

And, like, just act like all this stuff was amazing that he was doing when he's hiking in his motorbike.

[A]

Harry kept saying, wow, that's amazing. It's.

[C]

Dude, those were killers.

[A]

So funny.

[D]

Just to have one ounce of Sam's motorcycle confidence.

[C]

I know.

[D]

I could be the president. What do you think his obsession with the Queen was about? Oh, what the heck was that?

[C]

I can tell. Like, I mean, I was just videoing earlier telling about that because, like, I get. I'm getting a lot of people asking me to tell the story behind the Queen of England. I mean, it is pretty wild. It's kind of crazy. But one morning he came in and talked about. He had this dream, and in the dream then I was so random to. It was very random. He said in his dream then he was with the Queen of England, and he was kissing her wrists. Oh. And as the days went by, then pretty soon he started talking about how the Queen of England belonged to him, belonged in his family. And then he started saying things like, he's going to marry the Queen of England, and therefore he would be King of England.

[A]

There it is. Yeah, there it is. That's what the goal is. But weren't there other people besides the Queen, too, that he was convinced? Like, weren't there other famous people?

[C]

There was this singer lady. I don't exactly remember her name. And then there was Christine, and he started telling us, like, christine's gonna be your sister wives and stuff. And then there was Elise and Meryl.

[A]

Sorry, Elise. And Meryl, for context, are my friends since, you know, since I was 19 or something.

[C]

And they came and helped with a lot of the filming.

[A]

The filming in the town. Yeah. This is before Netflix was ever involved, but Elise had filmed some of the stuff, and Meryl is her twin sister who also did a little bit of filming in the town. That's so funny.

[C]

But that was the time when it was when he brought up Elise and Meryl, when I finally came up with the audacity to question him. And in the way I questioned him, was kind of very hesitant. Very. And I still was very. I was very punished for it. So what happened was one night, then after Tolga and Christine and Elise and Meryl came over and was helping with the filming of his birthday party or something. And that night then he gathered us all around and he said something to the effect of, those girls belong in my family. And I finally had the courage and I said, I'm tempted to think evil of you because every girl you see that's pretty or something's happening in their life that they're doing, then they suddenly belong to you.

[A]

Wow.

[D]

He.

[C]

He. He did not like that.

[A]

Yeah, I can imagine.

[C]

He didn't have any explanation. Explanation to me why. And he just told me to pack my stuff and. And then I was banished for three months out living in that box trailer out on BLM land. Oh, wow. Yeah. Spend a few months out there and with him a lot. And.

[D]

Oh, okay. He was there.

[C]

Yes. And then he would have different girls and women out there. And he kept telling. He told them that I was always out there because the other men were lusting after me.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[C]

And then he would tell me why it was because I was questioning him. And he would say, like, because you think you're smarter than me? Well, technically, I was accurately on any scale. Yeah.

[A]

It is really hard to square, like, with him in particular, because sometimes we'll talk to people and their cult leader, their prophet or whatever, is clearly very smart and very capable. And just like, you know, with Sam, I'm like, it's. It's hard to square how goofy and, like, dorky he is with how evil he is. Like, I feel like those things aren't supposed to go together. You know what I mean?

[C]

Well, truthfully, all the trending videos mocking him, I feel very validated. I feel like, yes, like he deserves it. Yeah. Yeah, certainly I'm going to compensate for this.

[D]

I'll.

[C]

I will tell more crazy, stupid things that he did. That was so bizarre.

[A]

Yeah. Are there Any you haven't told?

[C]

Tons.

[A]

Give us one.

[C]

Well, there's the Queen of England thing. There's. All of his goals were pretty bizarre. And even his marble palace stuff, I remember questioning him about that. And it got so. It got to a point where I was so terrified to approach him on different things. And when I would say something, one of the other girls, I remember her coming to me and she said, if you'd learn to shut up, then he wouldn't punish you so much. And. And then that night, then she got up in front of everyone and said something about. I'm tempted to always continually think he full of notes because she always. She always says things that are. That get her in trouble.

[D]

Wow.

[A]

Rebel at heart is what I'm hearing.

[D]

I'm. Me too.

[C]

I feel like I was 99% committed, but, oh, that 1% saved me.

[A]

Right.

[D]

Just to address Sam's goofiness with how evil he was, I feel like he would have never been able to do even a single ounce of it without the three other men. I feel like once those men were, like, contributing the money and then he had the time to. And a little bit more resources.

[C]

And also he got all the girls from them. Exactly right.

[A]

That's a good point.

[C]

All of the women he had were from either those men's daughters or. Yes. Their caretakers.

[D]

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it kind. Yeah, it just. Power is interesting. Look at how it can be, right?

[A]

It's not like just like pure charisma. Like, you also need some of these. You need support. You need material.

[C]

They kind of like fed the monster, though.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Through the whole entire experience.

[D]

Indeed. Indeed.

[B]

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[D]

Okay, so can we talk about Defi Wear for a second? Because I'm a little obsessed. They have the cutest sunglasses and prescription frames. And honestly, the vibe is like whatever you're feeling that day, there's a pair for it. Chill day. Got you going out. Got you. And every purchase gives back, which I love. Go to diffiware.com and define your style.

[A]

That's diffiware.com youm're welcome.

[B]

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[A]

Okay, talk about running away from the cops. We have to know if you want.

[C]

I really don't remember a lot of that. I remember them coming in and asking me where the nine minor girls were. Or the eight at the time. Those, those eight that had ran away. I remember them coming in and asking me. And at that point I had no idea. Yeah, I really didn't know because they had gone with Maretta.

[A]

Oh, sorry. Okay, I'm skipping ahead. So just for context. So the raid happens. Sam gets arrested. Some of these, the underage girls get put into foster care. And then they.

[C]

Nine. Nine of the nine underage nine girls that he was claiming at saying that were his wives. Then they went into foster care. They ran away.

[A]

But they ran away with the help of. Yes, with some of the adults. Adult women.

[D]

Right.

[C]

We didn't really tell them they need to run away or anything. That was something they came up with. And Sam told them to. He kept telling them to. They actually ran away like four times before that. But it was when we were still in, before Christine and Tolga had been outed. And so we would tell Christine and Toga and Christine would say tell them to cooperate. Just the faster, the more they cooperate, the sooner that the moms will get them back. Then the DCS outed Christine and Sam had us all cut all communication. Anything with Christine and Tolga.

[A]

I still can't believe they did that.

[D]

This documentary really highlights all the, like, failures of our systems. You know, number one, you tell the police that a bunch of people are being raped, and they don't give a shit. Number two, you have to prove so much to get people involved. And then this. This detail that you're talking about now, as well as just letting Sam call the girls from jail.

[A]

I know. That was crazy.

[C]

He should have had his communication cut because he was communicating with the minors through the adults.

[D]

Horrible.

[C]

Which is kind of weird because I wasn't, like, the lead person in that.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

It was the moms. I mean, they weren't my siblings. They weren't my kids. It was their moms that the communication was coming through.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And I was just one of them going along with it.

[A]

So he's instructing from jail.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

The girls to run away.

[C]

Yeah. After Kristi and Tolga were cut off. Then the fourth time, they ran, doing what Sam told them to. Then he said, if they run again, he encouraged them to run. And then he told us, go pick him up and run. And so we. We did. We were just being obedient, doing whatever he said. And that was another time where I questioned only very carefully. Then I said, what they gonna do to us? Because they had taken him, they'd taken them.

[D]

Right.

[C]

And I was starting to wonder what. What's going to happen to us now?

[D]

Right, Right.

[C]

The weird thing is this prison didn't even cross my mind. I. I thought more of more raids, more interviews and interrogations with the FBI, but not prison. And. But he kind of blew that off. And he said, well, they already did the worst thing because they took me.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[C]

And in the culty mindset that I was in then, I was just like, oh, yeah, that is the worst thing. He risked our lives. Yeah.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

And. Yeah. So we went down there and we picked him up from under the freeway bridge. To this day, I have no idea where those group homes were. I've never known the addresses to them.

[D]

Oh. Oh, wow.

[A]

Okay. And that was. Yeah, that was, like, extremely orchestrated because it was in more from more than one home at the same time.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

It's a lot of coordination, and a

[C]

lot of it had to do with not just the three that went and picked him up. We were just the minions. It was the entire group.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

So at that point, you're. You're still the Sam believer. And then the. Then what happens? You get arrested.

[C]

I went, so me, I was there for picking up three of them. There was eight of them. And then we dropped him off with Miretta and she took all eight of them to Washington, and I went back to the greenhouse. Then the cops showed up and they. They asked me my name, they asked me where that ton of questions about where the minor girls were. And I had no idea because there was no communication going on at the time because they started cutting. They finally started cutting Sam off and banned all his calls. So we were all just lost. What we supposed to do? And then after he asked me all these questions, then he said, you're under arrest. The next thing I remembered, I was running in the balance.

[D]

So you. You just took off?

[C]

Yes. It was adrenaline.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Seeing the video. Then I'm like, oh, that's what I did. I had no knowledge of this.

[A]

It's like watching an episode of co. Which I guess you never would have watched growing up, but it's crazy. But it's you. It's tiny. You like, It's. It's so wild.

[C]

Yeah, it is kind of wild to me. Yeah. The next memory I had, I was running in the mountains and I started thinking, why am I under arrest? What did I do? And am I really running from the cops? Like, this is. This is wild. So I went back to turn myself in. Didn't have the courage to. Climbed up in the Nate. Climbed underneath a box trailer in the neighbor's yard and climbed up in the axle and waited there all night.

[D]

It broke my heart when you said in the doc that your leg froze.

[C]

It was. It. It did. It froze really bad. I had to go through a little bit of physical therapy, even in prison.

[A]

Oh, my gosh.

[D]

Wow. Yeah. It just really contextualizes how much pain and. Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You have had the most. One of the more extreme journeys of folks we've talked to on here, for sure.

[C]

I mean, on the planet Earth. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, it's like. But we talk. We talk to people from cults every week. But, like, this is just so extreme. So we are dying to know about prison if you're willing to share. But I guess before we get there, I mean, you obviously had to go to. You get arrested, you go to trial. Like, that must have been terrifying.

[C]

Not trial. I went to. It was interesting how even after turning myself in, I didn't know why until three days later when I was standing in front of the judge and the judge explained why I was arrested. And allegedly it was for the kidnapping. It was conspiracy to kidnapping because I was involved in that. And I remember even then thinking thoughts like, I didn't kidnap them. I didn't go on their property. They. They ran. It was very. A very confusing time. But I also remember telling my attorney, literally days after my Arrest that. I was really glad to be in there because it was over, and I wasn't talking about, like, I was again, I wasn't against Sam at the moment. I was more, like, thinking, God is going to justify me not having to do what he's saying because I'm in here.

[D]

Right. So God was through breaking you guys up. God was kind of giving you an out from his control for a minute to regroup.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah, that's what it was. The mindset was crazy.

[A]

You have to go to prison to get your freedom.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

Is. That's bonkers.

[C]

It was. It was very culture shocking.

[D]

Yeah. I mean.

[A]

Okay, tell us.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Who was, like, the first person you met?

[C]

What was the.

[D]

Like, what was it like getting.

[C]

I actually don't really remember a lot of the names, like, for the first few months, because I was under this trance of culture shock.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Then the news came over of the whole traffic stop in Flagstaff, and now I was in there. And so I got beat up really bad within the first two weeks. They put me in segregation for six weeks in medical and until I healed. And then they put me right back in Genpo where I was, but was, like, kind of crazy. The people in there were so interesting. They were so fascinating to me because my whole life, everybody was the same. But to see the individuality and the variety. And these were all criminals or waiting to. You know, they weren't convicted, but they were people that had done bad things and waiting for the judge to decide their sentences. But they were just so fascinating to me. And even the ones that had beat me up, like, when I came back then, they were. They. They were kind of strange because they were like, oh, my God, like, you're pretty brave to come back here. Like. Like, I had a choice and then wanted to be my friend.

[A]

Interesting.

[C]

It was really strange.

[A]

Did you make friends with anyone in particular? Like, are there women? You're like, that girl ruled.

[C]

I. I mostly just. I wouldn't necessarily call them friends because I knew nothing about their life before, and there was no way to fact check it, but I did. What's the word? Homies. I guess I did have a lot of homies in there. We did. Did a lot of things together, and we, like, play games, and I learned how to gamble and play different.

[D]

Stop it.

[C]

Gambling games, card games, and even different board games like Scrabble, Monopoly, and chess and things like that.

[D]

Were you, like, having some fun at first?

[C]

No. At first it was so. It was so numb and. And I was still processing everything and questioning Starting to wonder about my beliefs, of course. Yeah. Like, I have been perfectly obedient to God. I have done everything he wanted me to do and here I am in prison for it. What's going on?

[D]

I One of my favorite parts of the documentary. Well, it's so again, a failure in the system is when they put you in a cell next to Sam.

[C]

Like so you guys. Right. I never understood why they did that.

[D]

So maddening. Because that could have gone the exact opposite direction that it went.

[C]

It could have and it did. Prison actually did that with some of the other adult women. Then it drove them deeper in, of course.

[D]

So. So they put you in a holding cell next to Sam so you can talk to this person that you're finally getting some freedom from. And he goes, oh, it's so good to talk to you. I haven'. Talk to anybody in a year.

[C]

That was. He said a lot more than that. But that was just the only part they could actually fit in the documentary. But there was like several things that he said that I started recognizing. He's lying to me. That's a lie, right?

[D]

He has you.

[C]

You were like, yes.

[D]

It hasn't been a year since I

[C]

Even the thoughts, even the thoughts like that. Then I had to build up to those. Like in prison was when I got introduced to different novels and self help books. And because I was so confused about my beliefs then I. I read through the entire history of the church because of the different LDS people that were in there and they have to grant their religious beliefs.

[A]

Right.

[C]

So they had all the journals, they had all the history of the church stuff. They had a lot of, a lot of like scriptures in there and being raised on these scriptures and now being so confused. Then I went and did this deep dive and the dots still weren't connecting. And then I started reading into. I reading into other religions. I read 14 different versions of the Bible. Wow. I mean, 21 months is a long time in there. And. And I was being really fast reader than I would just go through these books. And then I started reading self help books and that was when I started to question things because I would read books. Like there was one that I really gravitated toward and it was called the Pathway to Surrender, Letting Go. And the whole book was about owning the truth. And my entire life I had been taught to keep everything secret. Right. Or lie about it. And then here in this book, then it's saying it sets you free if you just own it and tell the truth. And it went. And that was one of The. That was when I started to wonder, like, so why do I believe the way I believe? Because it would talk about that, too. And it said, also question everything, because that's the only way you're going to find the truth is if you question everything. And being not allowed to question anything growing up, then it was just so fascinating to me. Wow.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So in that mindset, I still didn't dare question Sam or. Because every time I questioned him, in my mind, it would defer to Warren, Jess. Because they were very much the same. And Sam was using his training. He was using his personal diaries, and that's where he was getting a lot of his ideas.

[D]

Right.

[C]

It wasn't until that court hearing and that time sitting there and listening to him talk to me for four hours and just lie after lie. And I was in a position. I was like, in my. A mindset where I'm starting to recognize this.

[A]

So you had already read this book that talked about the value of truth when you were placed next to Sam in the cell?

[C]

Yes.

[D]

Wow.

[C]

Thank God, too.

[D]

Yeah. Thank God. Thank God. Wow. Did you placate him? Were you like. Oh, my gosh. Yes.

[C]

Yes, at first I did.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

I remember just being so shocked at his bold audacity to lie, like, so much. And then in my mind, I started questioning things, even sitting there, like, oh, my God, he's lying to me. How many times has he lied to me? And then everything started, like, coming up in my mind. Like, this whole time he's been lying to me, and he hurt me so much in all these different areas. And he would use God, and he would use a lot of blackmailing and lying, and it was. Yeah. In those moments that I. I would. So I would Started to kind of. Yeah. Play into it, and he would lie more. And. And then when they finally came to, like, came to take us back to the prison or back to the jail, then when I was walking away, the last words that I ever said to him is, you lie to me. And then that was the last things I have ever said.

[A]

My God, Chills.

[C]

That was the last time I saw him. After that, I asked my attorneys, I never want to see him again. If there's ever a group court hearing, which shows a lot of those, I don't want to be there. So they started to waive my presence, and my attorneys would go, but I didn't have to go anymore.

[D]

Wow.

[C]

So that was the last time I saw him. And the last words.

[A]

Oh, my God, I still have chills. They're still chilling the chills are chilling.

[D]

I'm crying, I'm chilling, I'm laughing.

[A]

Gnomes. I'm like, how long have you been in jail at that point?

[C]

Five months, I think it was. I was arrested in. I was arrested in December of 2022, on the 2nd of December. And then I was. I think it was around May when that happened.

[A]

I mean, it's amazing. It's like you've been educating yourself, you've been learning, you've been learning. And then he just tells on himself. Like you just.

[C]

He kind of did.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Like he didn't have to say anything,

[A]

do that in that moment.

[C]

Yeah. Well, he was so dumb. He really was. But then also, I mean, it was after that that I started to deconstruct even more and more because I remember going back to the jail and then I finally dared think questions against Warren Jeffs. And that was when basically the house of cards just crumbled. Oh, wow. And I started like, oh, my God. I was born and raised in lies.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

It was insane. It was scary. I went through very. The next few months were very dark for me. Yeah. Attempted suicide. It was just the grief, the loss, and knowing I'm never going back to any. Anything that has to do with the flds. And then the whole outside world was so scary to me. I knew nothing about it. I was getting a crash course on it in prison. Yeah. It was still so scary. It was.

[A]

Well, yeah, because that's not. That's also just. That's the other extreme. Right.

[C]

Like, yes, it was definitely something that I. I've had to heal from.

[D]

And to deconstruct that fast, you would. Like in the normal world, they'd be like, you should go to inpatient treatment. You know, I actually did. Oh, good.

[C]

I. For six months, then I went to therapy. I went like twice a week and.

[A]

During your prison stuff today.

[C]

Yes, because there was. So after realizing the truth and then going through these dark months of suicidal and the grief, the loss, the anger and the shame and guilt for even existing, then started going to therapy. And even then I was so terrified to open up to the FBI. The after I knew to. When I finally opened up to the FBI, it was an eight month period. In six months of that time I was in therapy and they were talking me through a lot of this. And when I did finally open up to the FBI, just accepting that I had been lied to my whole life. And here I am with this huge criminal charge that didn't really even belong to me, then just the acceptance of that Was it took a lot to accept that I had been lied to. And the only way forward is to completely let go of everything in my past, and that included my family. Wow.

[A]

Are you going through that? Like, so you're able to go to a therapy program, which. That's great that they had that available to you. But are you talking to anyone, anyone else? About what? About this deconstruction that's happening.

[C]

No, at the time, it was just. I would get on the phones with the people that were still in, and every time they brought it up, then I would just, I don't want to talk about it. I don't want to talk about it. And so we would talk about anything else other than that. And Miretta was in the pod next to me, and she was going through the same thing, but we couldn't talk about it. And even our attorneys were warning us not to talk about it to each other. The case and our lives before and everything. But we started to hint things. And it wasn't until trial that I found out Miretta was also had turned and was on the opposite side, and she was also testifying against him. And that was such a relief to be like, oh, I have somebody on my side here. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. I cannot imagine how isolating that must have felt and how dark that must have been. I mean. Yeah, there's just, like, no worse way to, like, exactly what Megan was saying. Like, it's already so challenging for people. It's like turning their whole lives upside down.

[C]

Absolute despair.

[A]

Like, everything they believed in is wrong. Everyone they love is, like, they're alienated from them now. Like, no matter what, that's traumatic. And no matter what, that's, like, the craziest life transition. But then also to be going through it alone in jail for months, like, girl.

[D]

Yep.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[C]

I don't know how I got through it, honestly. Yeah. Even I look back on those days and the things that we're going through inside and the realization, the transition, the deconstruction, it was so heavy. But I do remember having thoughts of anger towards Sam. And in my mind, thinking, as soon as I'm getting out, I'm making a commitment that I will do anything I can to stop him and anybody like him, because I was so angry. But the anger came after the grief and loss. And I journaled a lot of it.

[D]

Yeah. And drew a lot, too. It seemed like you got to be back with your artist self that was, like, pushed down when you were.

[C]

Yeah. I also would write a lot about it, too. I Wrote poems and got into writing different songs about it. That helped me process a lot. Helped me release it a lot was my art and my poems and singing about it. I even remember the song that just resonated with me because I had no exposure to the outside music. It came on MTV and it was Olivia Rodrigo singing Vampire.

[D]

I love that song.

[C]

And I was. I remember feeling like this is my song. He did. He sold me for parts. And yeah, he. Everything about that song, I just resonated with it.

[D]

Wow.

[A]

I wish we could play it. I bet we can't get a lot, but we're not allowed to. But I wish we could.

[D]

I just did it justice.

[A]

Oh, I know. That sounded exactly. That was the same.

[D]

Perfect.

[A]

Yeah. Olivia, I'm sorry, but I just remembered when you came to Film Quest and showed a video, it was her, right? Or was it someone else?

[C]

That was her.

[A]

It was her. Do you want to tell that story?

[C]

So, yeah. So I recorded my right after prison. It was like a few months after. Then I videoed myself singing Vampire and some of my friends in New York contacted Olivia Rodrigo and send it to her. I think I would have done a better job if I knew they were going to send it to the artist. But anyway, so last year on my birthday, she reached out to me.

[D]

What?

[C]

And she was like, I heard your story and I'm rooting for you. And you did such a very good cover of that song. I'm still blown away thinking about it.

[D]

That's unbelievable.

[A]

I know. It's so cool. That was so cool of her.

[D]

What? Yeah. Wow. How did you have friends in New York?

[C]

They were through the filming of the Netflix documentary.

[A]

Who? Who was it? Was it the. It was the like the doc people.

[C]

Neil Sharon. I think that's how he's sarin. How he say his name and his girlfriend Avery. That connected that deconstructing that fast and

[D]

moving to New York and like integrating

[A]

into purchase in London.

[C]

Okay, okay, okay. I see.

[A]

Did you get out first? I just want to know the timeline of Sam getting convicted versus you getting out. What. Which one came first?

[C]

So I was actually released on pre trial in September of 2024.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Then I went to sentencing four months later before Sam was sentenced.

[A]

Okay, Got it.

[C]

During that time, then the whole trial happened against Lidell and Torrance.

[D]

Okay.

[A]

Did you go to any of it?

[C]

Yes, I had to testify. I was on the stand for two days.

[A]

Oh, my gosh.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Was that rough?

[C]

It kind of was. It was five days after I had been released from prison.

[A]

Whoa.

[C]

The Overwhelming. Being reintroduced to society, but not just introduced to society, but to a new life that I had never experienced. Plus five days later, sitting on the stand talking about this very sensitive, horrific things that happened to me and things that I had witnessed. It was a lot of pressure. And even after trial then I remember this break in the middle of testifying and going into the restroom and just throwing up and throwing up. And then I'd go back out there and get on the stand.

[A]

Was anyone there with you to support you?

[C]

My aunt Carol. Okay. She was the one that came down there and signed to. Because I. I can't remember what it's called, but you have to have somebody that, that has, that you're signed off to when you're on pretrial. And she was the one that I was signed to. Okay. And then she supported me through the trial and the four next months. And during those months I got really sick because everything was so overwhelming and I got really sick and I couldn't hold anything down and lost a lot of weight and it was really rough and I didn't feel free at all. During those months I felt more overwhelming and scared and everything was so new and readapting to society. I remember a lot of nights I would sleep on the floor because the bed was too soft and it was too quiet and being able to just walk around without an officer yelling at you for being in the wrong place. And it was definitely something I had to adapt to as well as the choices, the abundance of opportunities and choices that I could do with my life. It was a lot to accept.

[D]

Overwhelming.

[A]

Where were you living?

[C]

I was living with my aunt and I went back to Colorado City and was living with her.

[D]

Do you remember, like the first moment that it maybe felt more exciting than scary or like the future might be exciting?

[C]

It was after I was sentenced because during those few months of being released on pre trial and sentencing, I had no idea what was going to happen with my life.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

I didn't know if they were going to send me back. I didn't know if I should. I didn't know if I dared plan for a future.

[D]

Yeah, right.

[C]

It was after I was sentenced to. Then it was such a relief and I started feeling like I could explore more. And then I started experiencing more. And I don't remember the exact moments, but I do remember like several other things. I don't remember if it was the first moment, but I remember the first time I got to eat out at a restaurant and that was exciting and new and the first time I went to the theater and watched a movie.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

That was another very exciting thing. And I started to save the different tickets and receipts of different things that I tried for the first time. Wow. And I started this book called My first time book.

[A]

Oh.

[C]

Like the first time going to Vegas and walking down the Strip. It was so mind blowing to me, I'm sure.

[A]

Wow.

[D]

I mean. And I relate to this. I don't mean any shade by this because I relate to this for my own upbringing. But it's like bringing somebody from the 1700s to like 2020, whatever. And being like, here you go.

[C]

And you're like.

[D]

Like so many lights, so many sounds. I can't even imagine. Yeah.

[C]

So, yeah, I did. I do keep even now then I. I have kept this book of my first time book. First time I went to New York. The first time I went up to Idaho and the different places that I went. The. Yes, I call it my first time book. And I have tons of different pictures and receipts and the feelings about it.

[D]

What's the most exciting thing you've done for the first time?

[C]

Oh, all of them are quite equal. I do remember my first roller coaster ride and it was at the New York New York in Vegas.

[A]

Oh, that's a scary one. Yeah.

[C]

It wasn't to me. It felt like I was finally equalizing the emotions inside.

[A]

Physically. You're like, this is what it feels like in my body now.

[C]

It's. And I. I was totally chilled, just relaxed.

[A]

So funny. Gnomes. I can't believe that. How did you. How did you reconnect with my mom? Because last. When you went into jail, you hated her.

[C]

Yes, I. It took, I would say, two years exactly. Because I went to prison on December 2nd and then was sentenced on December 2nd of 2024. Exactly two years later. Oh, wow. So I don't know how the dates lined up, which is kind of ironic with the whole trial, too. The first day that I testified was Sept. 13, which was two years to the day exactly from the day that was. We were raided by the FBI in 2022. Wow. So it's kind of ironic how things landed like that. But on my way down to sentencing, I, at this time was still very angry at Christine for what she had done. And I didn't understand her. And I also. I was very against them. I hated him and was committed to talking out against him. And yet I didn't understand Christine's role because the whole time I knew her then she was kind of befriending him and then betrayed us with that. So I didn't like her for those. Those two years, but I was really sorry for the things that I'd sent her. And I remember, even in prison then I texted Tolga and told him how sorry I was from prison. I had called her some really bad names and texted her and told him, called him traitor and all this stuff, but. So after I was released then I finally felt like I could confide in my aunt, and I told her what I felt and how I felt about Christine and told her. She didn't agree, and she would just say things like, I think that you should talk to her first. And little did I know that she was in cahoots with Christine and she was telling Christine how I was doing. I wasn't allowed to talk to her during those months because of all the trial stuff. And she was another witness in the trial. It was. Yeah, it was a very intense time. But. So on the way down to sentencing then Christine sent me a podcast, actually. With you. Oh, yes. It was a trust me podcast of her telling, briefly telling her story and what happened to her. I listened to that on the way down to Phoenix and had an entire paradigm shift. I had no idea what she. What her life was. I didn't know why she did what she did until I listened to that, and I had this whole, I don't know, awakening, like, oh, my God, our lives are so similar. She went through exact same experiences as me the next day when I was sentenced to time served, and I knew that I was safe and I would not be going back, and I was free. Then I told my aunt that I really needed to talk to Christine, and the next day we went and talked to her, and it ended up being a very long conversation. We were up all night, and it was emotional. And what was so interesting that day was the first thing she said to me was, you don't have to prove yourself. I already know. I already know what you've been through. And up until then, then I felt like I was constantly trying to prove. Prove myself that I was a good person. Anyway, that was when I reconnected, and we just got closer and closer since she became, like, my adopted godmother and.

[D]

Oh, I mean, Sam.

[C]

Yeah, she.

[D]

I like it.

[A]

She's America's mother now. America's mother.

[C]

I feel like she. She played such a big, huge part, a big role in my deconstructing, because she knows about the outside world a lot more than me, and she's not helped me navigate my life, and I feel like that's A huge reason why I'm out so much, and I've been able to process and deconstruct so fast was because of her.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

That's amazing. Well, how are you doing now? How are you feeling? You have. The whole world knows who you are now and hopefully have been. Seems, like, very supportive. Like, what.

[D]

What does the future hold?

[C]

Yeah. I didn't expect this much support. It was crazy. Like, when I did the show, I was expecting more hate because I was being very vulnerable, telling exactly how it was very honest, and I expected more judgment and hate. But it has been the exact opposite of that, except with a lot of local people.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

But there. That's a whole other thing. Yeah.

[C]

I'm still. I'm getting used to it, I guess. It's kind of new to be recognized everywhere I go.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, my gosh.

[C]

So it is something I'm getting used to. I don't know. I feel like I did. I was the one that was very committed in talking about this and bringing this awareness, and so I want to just accept this new life that I'm gonna have to at this point.

[A]

Well, I am so proud of you. I can't believe how far you've come. I mean, we all can't. It's amazing to see you now, a free woman, thinking for herself, looking so beautiful.

[C]

Thank you. It's so inspiring.

[A]

I know. And you're dating, and I'm just like. I don't know. It's amazing. You're so impressive, Noms.

[C]

Thank you. Yeah.

[D]

You're just a force of nature and letting us be a part of it.

[C]

I want to prove that you can recover from really horrible things that happened in your past. You can recover. It takes a lot of work inside, but it's possible.

[D]

Can you give somebody who's maybe in their darkest moment, like, you were in the jail, like, just something like. Like that they can hang on to or like, anything that helped you kind of hang in there.

[C]

A quote I remember repeating to myself a lot, even in there, after I started coming out of very dark depression and grief and loss. And I started saying to myself a lot whenever I would get into this suicidal mindset, then I would pull myself out of it with, I'll be okay either way. And I would just tell myself that over and over. It was like this motto in my mind. And then I also remember think, seeing other people that I idolized that had left a cult and became someone amazing, then I would look up to them and just be like, if they can, I can, too. With Somebody that's still deep inside a cult, then I feel like the best thing to do is not talk against their perpetrator directly, but try to drop hints that are parallel until they come to their own conclusion.

[D]

Hints have been. I mean, I haven't heard the word hint in so long. And hints were such a big part of this documentary and this conversation. And it's a great point. Like, Lola's mom at one point, Sam is going off about some stupid bullshit, and Lola's mom is like, no, that's a really good point. You should read the Gift of Fear about, you know, perpetrators.

[C]

She's dropping hints to us.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

And.

[C]

And, well, you know what? He wouldn't let us read that book.

[D]

Of course not.

[A]

Of course he didn't.

[C]

He didn't let us read it. But I read it in prison later.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

And.

[C]

And I did.

[A]

Good.

[D]

And it's a good book.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

But.

[D]

But like, hints, it is true that even subconsciously, maybe people are picking up on some hints.

[A]

Just a little seed.

[D]

Just plant a little baby seed. But not like passive aggressive. Yeah.

[C]

Not too direct either. Yeah.

[D]

Yeah. I don't know.

[A]

It's hard.

[C]

I mean, it's.

[A]

It's a really challenging.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Thing to know exactly how to do correctly. And like, we might.

[C]

Exactly. Correctly even me. Then I feel like there's a school. Like, you can only lead a horse to water. It's up to them to drink. Yeah, totally. And as many hints that you drop, then it's still up to them to realize.

[D]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's important.

[A]

Well, Gnomes, what are. What's on the docket? What are you doing next? Where do people find you?

[C]

I have instagram @gnomesiab. The same on TikTok. Hopefully I start a YouTube channel. Real soon. I'll be talking more about my story and my deconstructing through that. And as well as I've really been getting into a lot of singing, I have a vocal coach that I've been taking lessons from, Adriana McPhee, her name is. And Toga's introduced me to different producers and songwriters, and I hope to have a career in that area. Yeah. I also want to. I. I almost feel this obligation to advocate for people that have been through similar experiences that I went through.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I want to be able to help them through the process of healing from that. And I feel like one of the reasons why I'm so driven in that area is because survivor's guilt. I don't understand how I was able to wake up and pull out of It. Whereas so many are still stuck. And I feel this obligation, this drive to help them.

[A]

I mean, it's admirable. And it also makes sense. Yeah. You went through so much, and why would we ever want anyone else to go through that, you know, without support?

[C]

Yeah, exactly. I don't. I would rather, like, put my pain and comfort aside so that they wouldn't have to go through what I went through waking up in prison. I mean, it was the best and worst thing that happened to me, but it was something that I did have to heal from.

[D]

Right.

[A]

Yep.

[C]

There were funny things that happened in there, though. I have to say,

[A]

I wish we had nine more hours. You'll have to tell us when you come back.

[D]

We'll. We'll grill you.

[C]

Yeah, like. Like there's a whole. There's so much. There's so much to talk about even. And I think it would be so good to even have, like, Mikel on the show too, because even our friendship and the ups and downs and the things that it went through is a whole nother story in and of itself.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. And the video you two posted together. You guys are so cute.

[D]

I think I have a song collaboration in mind between the two of you, but I want to be a part of it too. So wait room for me.

[A]

Gold Coast. Start a band culture.

[D]

It's just a song. It's just a song. And I can't wait to see what the future holds for you. And I am just so excited for you. And thank you.

[A]

Thank you for joining us.

[D]

Thank you so much.

[C]

Thank you.

[A]

And that's all we have with gnomes. And I am just so grateful that she came on and talked to us and so proud of her. I'm so proud.

[D]

It's unbelievable, it's inspiring, and it is a conversation I will never forget.

[A]

I know. And hopefully we will see her in person soon. I'm not gonna ask you any of the questions. Cause we asked you last week. But for folks who are new listeners, I do typically ask Megan if she would join the cult. In this case, we're gonna just not do that question. We're just gonna not do it. But go follow Gnomes wherever she exists online. And thank you for listening.

[D]

Yeah, give some love to gnomes. Thank you for listening. Give some love to us. Rate us 5 stars if you want to. And always remember to follow your gut. Watch out for red flags and never ever trust me. Bye.

[A]

This has been an exactly right production.

[D]

Hosted by me, Lola Blanc, and me, Megan Elizabeth. Our senior producer is Ji Ha Lee.

[A]

This episode was mixed by John Bradley.

[D]

Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain and our guest booker is Patrick Cotner.

[A]

Our theme song was composed by Holly Amber Church.

[D]

Trust Me is executive produced by Karen Kilgareth, Georgia Hardstark and Danielle Kramer.

[A]

You can find us on Instagram usmepodcast or on TikTok usmecultpodcast.

[D]

Got your own story about cults, extreme belief or manipulation? Shoot us an [e-mail] Listen to Trust

[A]

Me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[B]

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