REWIND: Elana Auerbach - OneTaste (aka the Orgasm Cult)

Summary

Podcast Summary: Trust Me - REWIND: Elana Auerbach - OneTaste (aka the Orgasm Cult)

Podcast: Trust Me: Cults, Extreme Belief, and Manipulation
Hosts: Lola Blanc, Megan Elizabeth
Guest: Ilana Auerbach
Original Release Date: December 31, 2025
Topic: Firsthand account of Ilana Auerbach’s experience in OneTaste, an organization known for "orgasmic meditation" (OM), its cultic structure, manipulative practices, and resulting harm.

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Main Theme & Purpose

This episode dives deeply into the cultish world of OneTaste, often dubbed "the Orgasm Cult," through the lens of Ilana Auerbach, a survivor and early member. Ilana discusses how OneTaste’s seductive sexuality and claims of empowerment were used to manipulate and control, blending personal trauma, groupthink, financial abuse, and sexual coercion. The hosts and Ilana dissect how such groups appeal to universal human desires for connection, meaning, and liberation, but ultimately enforce emotional and psychological bondage.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Background of OneTaste and OM (Orgasmic Meditation)

[11:40] Lola summarizes:

• OneTaste: Founded in San Francisco by Nicole Daedone, marketed as a sexuality-focused wellness company.
• Core practice: Orgasmic meditation (OM) — a clothed man strokes a naked woman for 15 minutes, without it becoming reciprocal sex. Originally practiced in group circles.
• Ilana clarifies: The practice predates Nicole Daedone and was called "deliberate orgasm," originating with Vic Barranco and the “Morehouses”—hedonistic sex communes in the Bay Area.

2. Ilana’s Entry Into the Pleasure Community

[12:50-19:20] Ilana recounts:

• After her divorce, Ilana sought more meaning, pleasure, and community—feeling “famished for a life that makes sense.” Her vulnerability was exploited.
• Ilana and partner Bill entered this world through friends and found the community fun and sexually liberating at first.

3. Meeting Nicole Daedone & Early Manipulation

[19:20-22:58] Ilana describes:

• Nicole’s charisma was intoxicating — “I put her up on a pedestal. Like this is what an empowered woman looks like.” (19:22)
• Nicole quickly took control, even dominating established group leaders.
• Early OM technique: Participants “plateau” at the edge of orgasm, never climaxing — later recognized as a manipulative tool to keep women in “a heightened state of titillation and yet not having that come down.”

4. Psychology & Techniques of Manipulation

[32:40-36:57] Ilana describes Nicole’s tactics:

• “Pulling desires” sessions: Nicole would probe for members’ deepest desires, but direct them toward her agenda (e.g., pushing Ilana to say she wanted a public orgasm ‘demo’).
• “Nicole agreed something was true if it matched what she wanted to hear... If you had doubt, she knew how to increase your doubt until what she told you was true became what you believed.” (36:12)

5. Escalation: Financial & Emotional Control

[36:35-41:18]

• Ilana and Bill were charged $15,000 in 2004 for a demo (“an hour-long orgasm” event) that never truly materialized.
• Nicole’s growing vision: a center where access to her was gated by the amount of money, time, or devotion—a classic cult hierarchy.
• Ilana worked full time for free, became the “second in command,” and moved in with Nicole’s devotees, losing her own financial independence.

6. Red Flags, Doubt, and Disillusionment

Moments that stood out:

• Nicole always took the best for herself, e.g., claiming the master bedroom and refusing to help clean; “flashed back to my Zen teacher…mopping the floor… such a contrast.” (53:20)
• Group compliance: Surrendering to Nicole was demanded, and dissenters (like Bill) were ostracized.
• Ilana experienced dissociation during sexual activities with Nicole: “It’s kind of like an abuser… it feels so confusing, because often it feels really good… but yet it’s so conflictual…” (55:01)

7. Breaking the Spell and Leaving

[61:15-62:22] Ilana’s realization:

• Watching Nicole use another member’s sexual energy as a recruitment tool during a live demo shattered Ilana’s belief: “I saw it for the first time… She was using Patricia and her sacred orgasmic energy… to get these people into a course.”
• The cult’s hold persisted: “It took years for me to really get her… vampiric tendrils out of my system.” Healing and forgiveness came only after significant inner work.

8. Aftermath & Broader Lessons

[65:16-75:27]

• Nicole’s influence has only grown, with celebrity endorsements and higher price tags ($4,000-$60,000 for programs).
• Financial, sexual, and psychological harms remain prevalent; manipulation by charismatic, controlling female leaders is under-recognized.
• “Nicole was the unequivocal, charismatic leader who established herself as the single source of truth, full stop… The message Nicole sold was liberation. But in actuality, what you received was bondage.” (72:42)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Susceptibility:
  • “Overkill through excesses… is acted out by women who are famished for a life that has meaning and makes sense for them.” – Ilana quoting Clarissa Pinkala Estes (13:43)
  • “I put her up on a pedestal. Like this is what an empowered woman looks like. And I want to be that.” – Ilana (19:22)
• On Manipulation:
  • “Nicole agreed that something was true if it matched what she wanted to hear. So clearly, that's what she wanted to hear… If you said something she didn’t like, she called it a lie.” – Ilana (35:58)
  • “What you told you was true became what you believed.” – Ilana (36:33)
• On the OM Practice:
  • “It was never a spiritual thing. Nicole renamed it to market it as a spiritual practice and as a meditation, mindfulness practice. It was never about bringing your whole self.” – Ilana (49:10)
  • “For me, a due date with Nicole became getting off how Nicole wanted me to get off, instead of getting off the way that is natural for me.” – Ilana (56:12)
• On Leaving & Healing:
  • “What I found since… is many people stayed for years. It took years for me to really get her… ‘vampiric tendrils’ out of my system and out of my body with the help of a really powerful sister healer.” – Ilana (62:18)
  • “The message Nicole sold was liberation. But in actuality, what you received was bondage.” – Ilana (72:42)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [11:40] — Introduction to OneTaste and OM as described by Lola and clarified by Ilana
• [19:20] — Ilana meets Nicole and experiences the magnetic group dynamic
• [32:40] — Nicole’s “pulling desires” technique exposed
• [35:58] — Manipulation: “If you said something she didn’t like, she called it a lie.”
• [36:35] — Financial abuse: The $15,000 “demo” and working for free
• [41:18] — Nicole demands total surrender and exploits core wounds
• [53:20] — Realization: Nicole refuses to help, contrasting with true spiritual leaders
• [55:01] — Ilana describes dissociation during coerced OM sessions
• [61:15] — Spell breaks: Ilana sees through live demo’s manipulative purpose
• [72:42] — Summary: “Liberation” as bondage and classic cult features
• [74:56] — Ilana’s final message: Trust yourself, “Our bodies don't lie to us.”

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Broader Reflections & Lessons

• The hosts and Ilana warn of the seductive rhetoric of self-empowerment and community—especially when those leading demand total devotion, financial exploitation, and sexual conformity.
• Female cult leaders can wield the same power and cause the same harm as men; charisma and “women’s empowerment” can mask profound manipulation.
• The importance of outside practices of grounding, critical distance, and relationships that foster returning to self.
• The story is a cautionary tale: “If something feels off, it is off. Our bodies don't lie to us.” (Ilana, 74:56)

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Closing Thoughts

This episode provides an unflinching, detailed look at how “wellness,” “empowerment,” and sexual liberation can be weaponized for manipulation and harm. Through Ilana’s self-aware and compassionate reflection, it highlights universal vulnerabilities and offers hope for recognizing, escaping, and healing from cultic dynamics.

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For listeners seeking compassionate, firsthand insight into the psychology and tactics of modern cults—especially those masquerading as sexual liberation—this episode is both a warning and a guide.

Transcript

[Ilana Auerbach]

This is exactly right.

[Kal Penn]

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[Lola Blanc]

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[Ilana Auerbach]

Equivalent to $15 per month.

[Lola Blanc]

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[Ilana Auerbach]

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[Ed Helms]

I'm Ed Helms.

[Kal Penn]

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[Ed Helms]

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[Kal Penn]

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[Ilana Auerbach]

You trust me? Trust me. I'm like a smart person. Yeah. I've never lied to you. I never have lied.

[Lola Blanc]

If you think that one person has all the answers, don't. Welcome to Trust Me, the podcast about cults, extreme belief and the abuse of power from two apostates who've actually experienced it. I am Lola Blanc.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And I am Megan Elizabeth.

[Lola Blanc]

I can't believe we've never said apostates. Wow, that was a good one.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I can believe that we haven't.

[Lola Blanc]

That's where we differ. Today our guest is Ilana Auerbach, former follower of the sexual wellness company Onetaste, deemed the orgasm cult by the BBC podcast of the same name. And that is what it is. Onetaste is known for hosting orgasmic meditation circles with the women all lying in a circle getting fingered together. It's fascinating, but whatever you think of the sexual element, it has a history of being destructive and abusive. So Ilana is going to tell us about how she was there in the very beginning when its founder, Nicole De. I think I'm saying that right. Dedone was first developing her sexual program, figuring out her jargon and perfecting her methods of manipulation.

[Megan Elizabeth]

We're going to talk about how after her divorce, Ilana went from exploring her own pleasure with her partner to centering her entire life around Nicole, working for free and spending thousands of dollars for training to have an hour long orgasm that never materialized. That would be really disappointing.

[Lola Blanc]

There is so much sex talk in this episode, y'. All, so if you don't want to hear us talk about pussies, do not listen to this one. Also some descriptions that could be triggering that are related to assault. So just be aware of that. In the meantime, Meghan, we have the same Culties thing this week.

[Ilana Auerbach]

We do.

[Lola Blanc]

We're going to talk about it together.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Dude, somebody's going to jail for over a thousand years.

[Lola Blanc]

This story. I can't believe I'm just learning about this. It seems like it's so deep. There's like so much information. This man has been in the public eye in Turkey for so long. I'm sure we're only scratching the surface, but Adnan, I think it's pronounced okar. So he was arrested. He is a Muslim televangelist, sex cult leader. Is that a good description, you think?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yes. Creationism.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah. So he preached creationism. He's like anti. Darwin is hell. He wrote this like 800 page book on how Darwin is wrong. Meanwhile, he has literally no background in science. He went to school for interior design. So that's how you know you can trust him as the authority on science. I don't really understand the inner workings of like, it seems like he maybe was linked to a coup in Turkey, but I don't know if that's real. He says that he's Islamic, but he rejects the different ways of thinking about it. And so he's got his own thing going on that he's sort of perverted now. Am I describing that? Okay. I don't know.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, I mean, I think It's. I think it's really fascinating and you're describing it perfectly. He's just basically, essentially, when you boil it down, as kind of a, like, pimp.

[Lola Blanc]

Okay, y'. All. So he's what I imagine Trump will be in, like, five years. He has his, like, show that he does where he talks about religion, but on this show, he's got this, like, brood of women who all have a very similar face. They all have this, like, heavily plastic surgery, bleach, blonde, big boobs, scantily clad outfits look going on. And they're just, like, chilling in this room while he's preaching his shit. And it is so fucking weird. Not that there's anything wrong with having surgery, but I would suspect because the crimes he's been sentenced for include sexual assault, sexual abuse of minors, among other things. I suspect that he probably has something to do with why they all look the same.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yes, yes. I suspect the same as well. I think that there's probably going to be a lot more information coming out on this.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, my God, this stuff is so interesting and fucked up. So one of the women at his trial told the court he repeatedly sexually abused her and other women. Some of the women he raped were forced to take contraceptive pills. One joined when she was 17. There were 69,000 contraception pills found in his home.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Did you see where he said that they were for their skin? He was like, the contraception pills are for their skin. It's like, oh, thank you. He was just being nice, you guys.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, that's so sweet of him.

[Ilana Auerbach]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

He says I am extraordinarily potent.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, that is a great quote. He is just the worst, isn't he?

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, he's the fucking worst. And apparently he's got a lot of people who buy his shit. He. Oh, he used to be a Holocaust denier. He, like, wrote a whole book about that, and now he pretends that never happened.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, now he says that his friend actually wrote that book and he was like, yeah, you can publish it under my name. Because he was just, like, being nice. But at the end of the day, of course he's saying, no, I don't really think that.

[Lola Blanc]

Once again, so sweet of him. He's so sweet.

[Ilana Auerbach]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

He also, funnily enough, maybe this is just a thing that all cult leaders do, or abusers, because he refers to the women in his crew as his kittens. Like Armie hammer, like, probably 15,000 other men who have, like, a group of women who they abuse. Yeah. So, okjar. Okjar, he's Quite a guy. Thankfully, he will be in prison for over a thousand years.

[Ilana Auerbach]

God, he's the worst.

[Lola Blanc]

Anyway, I'm sure that if we have any Turkish listeners, you probably know way more about this guy than we do, so if you have anything you think would be important for us to add, please let us know. I know nothing about Turkish politics. I have to say, I'm. I'm very ignorant in that department. Yeah, so that's oktar.

[Megan Elizabeth]

There's a lot of crazy people out there, you know. Luckily, there's a lot of Ilana's too, though.

[Lola Blanc]

She's so cool. Anyway, y', all, I love this episode. I hope you like it. Here we go.

[Ed Helms]

Hey, everyone.

[Kal Penn]

Ed Helms here, and hi, I'm Kal Penn, and we're the hosts of Irsay the Audible and I Heart Audiobook Club.

[Ed Helms]

This week on the podcast, I am sitting down with Jenny Garth, host of the iHeart podcast. I choose me to discuss the new Audible adaptation of the timeless Jane Austen classic PR and Prejudice. This is not a trick question. There's no wrong answer. What role would I play?

[Ilana Auerbach]

You know what? I can see you as Mr. Darcy. You got a little Colin Firth.

[Ed Helms]

Okay, that's really sweet. I appreciate that, but are you sure I'm not the dad? I'm not Mr. Bennett.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Here.

[Ed Helms]

Listen to Earsay the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Kal Penn]

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[Ilana Auerbach]

For more than 30 years in Kansas City, Kansas, a man allegedly raped and terrorized black women. A detective named Roger Golubski. He told me to keep my mouth closed. If I did say anything, I would come up missing like so many others. But then, right before trial, he was found dead, leaving countless questions behind. Listen to corruption uncovered from Roc Nation and its philanthropic injustice division, Team Rock. Wherever you get your podcasts, you ever.

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[Lola Blanc]

Hello and welcome. Ilana Auerbach.

[Ilana Auerbach]

Thank you.

[Lola Blanc]

Whose name I butchered three times. I'm so happy to talk to you today. Onetaste is something that is just like absolutely fascinating and some of these stories are horrific. Can't wait to get into it with you. So just to give people like a light overview and tell me if I'm describing this correctly. One taste is a San Francisco based sexuality focused wellness in quotes company that promotes a practice called orgasmic meditation or OM. And OM is a 15 minute long practice in which a clothed man lightly fingers in a very specific way a woman who's naked from the waist down without it turning into sex and without it being a reciprocal encounter. It's strictly for the connection of the orgasm for the woman alone. And I saw in the demonstration video the man is supposed to wear gloves. It's supposed to be done on the floor. And it used to be done in group circles, but they've since abolished the group practice. Is that correct?

[Ilana Auerbach]

That is what I understand. When I was there, it was before Nicole changed the name, which was a brilliant marketing scheme to call it oming.

[Lola Blanc]

Nicole refers to One Tastes founder Nicole de.

[Ilana Auerbach]

So she didn't invent this practice. This was a practice called deliberate orgasm. And when I was involved back in 2004, that's what it was called. So deliberate orgasm, from what I understand, originated with this guy, 60s, 70s, named Vic Barranco. Okay. Who ran these More houses all over the Bay Area.

[Lola Blanc]

Morehouses refers to these sort of communes where everybody has sex and people who.

[Ilana Auerbach]

Were involved, some of them, you know, it was hedonistic communities. They had very strict rules and I was never involved. I knew some people who were involved. I knew people who considered it a culture as well. And Nicole Nuvik and I think was involved in one of the houses. I'm not really sure. I got involved in what I call the pleasure community back in 2002. I had left my former husband. You know, each of us from my experience, have a lot of different aspects of ourselves. You could even look at them through the lens of different archetypes. Right, that transcend culture, transcend divisions. So I like to look at this story and my involvement with Nicole and Onetaste through the lens of the Eve and Lilith archetypes. So the good girl and kind of the bad girl seductress. And so I was the quintessential good girl, always doing what I was supposed to be doing. And that's kind of how I grew up and even into my young adulthood, even into my first marriage. So Lilith was, like, banging on my door after a few years into that marriage. And I, you know, finally said when this guy had proposed a few years prior, what I should have said in that moment, you know, when he proposed and this volcano erupted in my belly, was like, ah. And tears come down. He's like, well, does that mean yes? And I. Well, I guess, you know, like this meek Eve, like, okay, whatever you want, darling. So I finally did have the courage to say, I have to leave this marriage. I left the marriage, and I had been like, I'm gonna get a quote for you from Clarissa Pinkala Estes, who wrote that book, Women who Run with the Wolves. I love that book, which is a fabulous book for everybody. And she's a Jungian psychoanalyst. It really describes where I was at at the time, which is. This is a quote from her book, Women who Run with the Wolves. Overkill through excesses or excessive behavior like alcohol, drugs, anger, promiscuity, or even body fitness and junk food is acted out by women who are famished for a life that has meaning and makes sense for them. And so I fit into that really perfectly. And I was thinking, you know, as I read this recently, that that's true for, you know, how particularly women can be susceptible to getting involved with cults, for sure, because, you know, however, we're enculturated, whatever. Whatever wounding we have in childhood, however, we're trying to make it by disconnecting from our authenticity and going along with, you know, accommodating others so that we can just get along to go along and get along. And, you know, that whole story so makes me want to throw up. And I have such compassion for, you know, many of us, not all of us, but many of us who have lived through that or are still living that. And so I left this marriage, and I had a friend who's still a dear friend of mine who was involved in this pleasure community. And so she was hosting a course at her house, and I said, sure, I'll come. I mean, I'm. I'm single now. I'm ready. Let's explore. And so this man named Erewhon, who led the pleasure course, I called them the pleasure people. And so I went to the course. It Was a day long thing. And it was similar. He also had been trained by Vic. He had been involved with this another group called the Welcomed Consensus, which was an offshoot of the Morehouses. Erwin was involved there. Then he came to San Francisco, started his own groups. I had a fun time in the group. A couple months later, I signed up for the advanced course. I didn't even want to go to it. I end up going in his kitchen because he used to host in his apartment in San Francisco. I met this guy and it was kind of like that. Oh my God. Where do I know you from? I recognize you. Turns out that's Bill, who's my man, who's still my little man and my partner and the father of my son and all of that. So that's a little. A little spoiler for. So I met him. We were in this course. And of course I just wanted to take him back to my place. But eventually I did. And so this is where I met Bill. And he was also interested in just exploring my pleasure. It was all about primarily this practice of deliberate orgasm where one person, and it wasn't only the woman, but you know, where one person is at. Effect. So just lying down, receiving, and the other person is at. Cause so either stroking the genitals. Okay. So we. And we. In the course, we did switch off and okay, I was stroking Bill and he stroked me. And so we became research partners researching orgasm. But primarily my orgasms. It was fun. We had an open relationship, which meant that we could date whoever we wanted. So it was super edgy for me being like serial monogamist. I mean, both of us had been serial monogamists. You know, my divorce wasn't even final when I had, you know, met Bill. And so. So we're involved in this fun. And this is a group of super sexy, beautiful, fun, titillating people that we would join. They'd have game nights every week and so forth. So we're hanging out with this group for about a year or so. And the following summer. So this is the summer of 2003. I'm hearing about this woman, Nicole, who had been a former lover of Erewhon when they were in the welcomed consensus or something. And so I keep hearing about her and I'm hearing about her. And this one night that it was a games night, happened to be down in Brisbane, which is a sleepy suburb of San Francisco, just south of San Francisco. So Bill and I show up and there is this woman on the couch. It's not that she's so beautiful and she's. She's certainly an attractive woman, but it was just for her magnetism and her charisma. And I was at a time in my life, pretty much my whole life up till then, where I would my go to was to look outside myself for approval and for what I should be doing. For interest, for purpose, for guidance, for everything. Like it was always like out there. It's going to be out there. Well, then I see Nicole. And even though Erewhan is supposedly the leader of this group, she has got him wrapped around her finger. And I've known Erewhon now for maybe a year and a half and I've seen him lead groups and he's a very strong leader and yet he's like putty in her hands.

[Lola Blanc]

Right.

[Ilana Auerbach]

And the way she works the room and I mean, I really put her up on a pedestal. Like this is what an empowered woman looks like.

[Lola Blanc]

Right.

[Ilana Auerbach]

And I want to be that.

[Lola Blanc]

Right?

[Ilana Auerbach]

Yes. I wanted to find who that was in me. But it's like emulating her. Like that's what that means. Right. So Nicole and Erewhon started working together, co leading groups. In fact. I mean, this is an interesting thing. One of the things that Vic did, because I remember watching from the 1970s or 1980s, a demo and a demo was a demonstration of a woman in orgasm for one hour.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Whoa.

[Ilana Auerbach]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

Is that possible?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Is that right?

[Ilana Auerbach]

It is because you train, you know, it's very serious training.

[Lola Blanc]

Wow.

[Ilana Auerbach]

Wow.

[Megan Elizabeth]

It's like the. The marathon version of an orgasm. Got it.

[Lola Blanc]

That's right.

[Ilana Auerbach]

Well, and really what it is is it's a practice of continuing to expand and expand and dissolve into sensation so that, you know, often, and I speak from my own experience of, you know, when we orgasm, it's like you go over the edge of. And you know, it's building, building, building, building. And then you go over that edge and then the genitals are so sensitive that you don't even. It's like, don't touch me, go touch my clit. And what I found as I was exploring orgasm with Bill primarily, even though I had other do partners, but it was mostly Bill, is that if you stay with that sensation and just relax into it and surrender into that sensation, then it just opens up again and again and again and you can keep going over and over and over and opening now.

[Lola Blanc]

Interesting.

[Ilana Auerbach]

That was my practice. What Nicole taught was not. And what I think the predecessors from this lineage, if you want to call it, or this, you know, this way of teaching orgasm was to not have the women go over the edge. So if you can imagine, you're stroking, you're stroking your stroke and you're plateauing them. So that's what the due date is. You bring somebody up, you're kind of taking control of their nervous system through their genitals and taking them on a ride. So, you know, you can stroke in a different way with different firmness, with different. To bring them up higher and then to bring them down, to bring them up and then plateau and then up and then plateau, but never to bring them over the edge. Which I thought that was always curious. And then in retrospect, I recognized that that was a way to control people, certainly control women, because you're keeping them in this heightened state of titillation and and yet not having that come down of the going over the edge.

[Lola Blanc]

Right.

[Ilana Auerbach]

And then coming back into the body and then building up again.

[Lola Blanc]

I didn't realize that. I thought that it was all about having the orgasm. You're saying that they never actually achieve the orgasm in the practice.

[Ilana Auerbach]

Well, so it depends what you call orgasm.

[Lola Blanc]

Okay.

[Ilana Auerbach]

Because Nicole and all these people who taught this were. It's expanding your definition of orgasm.

[Lola Blanc]

Okay.

[Ilana Auerbach]

And orgasm being, you know, where you're feeling the most sensation in your body. So it doesn't necessarily have to include a climaxing, a going over the edge or an ejaculation.

[Lola Blanc]

Okay.

[Ilana Auerbach]

It's simply. Is the most sensation you're feeling in your genitals, then you could be an orgasm. I see.

[Lola Blanc]

Interesting. Interesting.

[Ilana Auerbach]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

But it was a part of the practice to not take them over the edge or it was just. Okay, that was what.

[Ilana Auerbach]

When I was there, you know, back in 2004, it was keeping them at the edge but not going over.

[Lola Blanc]

That's very interesting.

[Ilana Auerbach]

And then what I was exploring with myself and with Bill was, you know, going over continuously, you know, like going over and then gushing out, opening and then building up again and then going over and then out and then again. And so it just continues to expand and expand. And since I never did the demo, but we'll get to that in the story. I don't know if during the one hour demonstration of a woman in orgasm they were going over or not really. I mean, there was definitely a lot of contractions of the, you know, the pussy was contracting and so forth. So back to the demo. So it's the fall of 2003 and Erewhan and Nicole are going to have a demo with Erewhon as the doer and Nicole, you know, being in orgasm for an hour, Bill and I went. It was in someone's living room in Brisbane. So they were, you know, kind of putting themselves on the map sort of and carrying on the tradition of the people that they learned from. And then, as I understand the story, Nicole. Because by this point, Erewhon had a thriving business, his pleasure, people business. And Nicole wanted Erewhan to surrender his business to her because, you know, that's what she wanted, and that was what was best for Erewhon, because he was attached to his business. So if he could show that he could surrender it, then that would show that he was very spiritually evolved.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, so enlightened to give your business away.

[Ilana Auerbach]

Well, as you can imagine, Erwin was like, fuck, no. So there was this big rift. And so Nicole had a few devotees with her, and then Erewhon's big community, and we had really merged until this big blow up, and then there was the separation. Okay, so this is like December something, 2003. For New Year's Eve, Nicole invites Bill and I down to Brisbane, where they're living to celebrate New Year's with her and her few devotees who have gone with her. Everyone else went with Erewhon Gotcha, because they'd been working with him for a long time and part of his community. So we go down there and it was, you know, it was pretty uneventful. I mean, the whole evening was mostly focused on Nicole, and we were sleeping over because it was the wee hours of the night. And I'm walking down the stairs to go to the bedroom, and I see. I see, like, this energetic shapes of skulls and crossbones. Now, I am not one to see, you know, I have friends. I'm now an ordained priestess, and I have friends who actually see energy. And they can see, you know, different beings and they can see energy. That is not one of my channels of perception. And except on this particular night, I could see them on the walls in the bedroom that we were in. These skulls, crossbones, as if I could touch them. And, I mean, the message was clear that there was toxicity here, and this place was not for me.

[Kal Penn]

Hey, audiobook lovers. This week on the podcast, I'm sitting down with musician, producer, and walking encyclopedia Questlove. We're talking about Mark Ronson's memoir, Night how to be a DJ in 90s New York City. All right, like we talked about before, Mark Ronson found sanctuary in the DJ booth. What's a tool or piece of equipment in the studio or on stage that gives you the most control?

[Ed Helms]

So I have Two microphones on stage. We have the microphone that you hear as the audience. Then we have a second microphone in which we communicate with each other. I feel like that second microphone kind of saved all of our friendships. No band likes each other after 20 years or 25 years. Like the Beatles broke up in seven and a half years and we're going on 35.

[Kal Penn]

Listen to HearSay, the Audible and iHeart audiobook club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts. So you're telling me that the AI that's meant to make everyone's job easier to manage just adds more to manage on top of the thousands of apps the IT department already manages? Funny how that works. Any business can add AI. IBM helps you scale and manage AI to change how you do business. Let's create Smile to Business IBM.

[Ilana Auerbach]

For more than 30 years in Kansas City, Kansas, a man allegedly raped and terrorized black women. A detective named Roger Golubski. He told me to keep my mouth closed. If I did say anything, I would come up missing like so many others. But then, right before trial, he was found dead, leaving countless questions behind. Listen to corruption uncovered from Roc Nation and its Philanthropic Injustice Division, Team Roc. Wherever you get your podcasts, you ever.

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[Ilana Auerbach]

So the next morning I wake up and I'm like, okay, now we go upstairs. I just, like, I think I'm done with this. Like, this just feels off. And we go upstairs to the kitchen. And meanwhile, so there's been this big split, right? So now Nicole needs to find her grounding again and start to get more people to follow her and start a community, you know?

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah.

[Ilana Auerbach]

And so she has now come up with that. One of the women in the community, who I'll call Patricia, is going to have a demo of her own and Nicole is going to be her doer. So this is going to again put Nicole on the map in a Different way because it's always been, as far as I know, it's a male doer with a female. Well, so here's a female doer with a female. So this woman, Patricia, is having her demo at the end of February, and there we are in the kitchen. I'm feeling really awkward. I'm holding Bill's hand, and Patricia, who's a petite woman, comes up, stands right in front of Bill and says, bill, I really want you to come to my demo. Would you come? And Bill was like, sure. So again, like, you know, my head is like, holy shit. I can't let him go and have fun without me and do this whole thing without me, and he's gonna then go and find someone else and I gotta stick with my hand. And so like in that moment, the experience was like unhooking from my own knowing of this place is not for me.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Right.

[Ilana Auerbach]

To going along with the AI, Right? The age old story.

[Lola Blanc]

I mean, it's understandable.

[Megan Elizabeth]

So Bill is a traitor. I'm just kidding.

[Ilana Auerbach]

Susceptible to the feminine wife.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Sure, sure. Why are you kicking me? You know, like, that would be my boyfriend. Like, why are you kicking me under the table right now, Megan? Because we're not going, Belle.

[Ilana Auerbach]

Okay, well. And Megan, I did not even have the presence of mind to do that, to be like, no, you're not right. So they're now training for this demo and Nicole and Patricia are blogging, you know, about their training sessions. And at this point in my life, I am kind of lost. I'm in my early 30s. I don't really know what I want. I'm looking for passion. I'm looking for community. I'm looking for purpose. I'm looking for something to devote myself to, for creative energy to be expressed and so forth. And so I am becoming obsessed with their blog posting and feeling jealous and envious of this. Seems like they're working towards a goal. I mean, it seems so ridiculous. However, at the time it was. I was so seduced into their world and feeling like there's something exciting happening there and they're actually doing something meaningful, you know, and just comparing, you know, that whole comparing mind, that whole comparison thing that's so predominant. Never done it.

[Lola Blanc]

Never in my life.

[Ilana Auerbach]

Oh, my gosh. I think, you know, it's all part of the patriarchal scheme. So that's why we're healing this. So we're not comparing anymore.

[Lola Blanc]

No more comparing.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Amen.

[Ilana Auerbach]

So but back at the, you know, 20 years ago, that's where I was at. So I had Agreed. I'm going to the demo. Bill's going to the demo. The day before the demo on a Saturday, Nicole's leading a course because she. She was continuing to try and lead courses to make some money and draw people in to become her followers. So we're back at that house in Brisbane. It's a Saturday morning that maybe about 10 of us in this course. I don't even know what she called. I think it was called the being course. Now that I think of it.

[Lola Blanc]

Classic.

[Ilana Auerbach]

So Nicole had this practice that she came to call, not while I was around, but later on. Pulling desires.

[Lola Blanc]

Okay, Love the jargon already. Go on.

[Ilana Auerbach]

Right, right. Okay.

[Lola Blanc]

She didn't have.

[Ilana Auerbach]

Hadn't honed the jargon yet. At point. This point, however, it's the same practice. So she comes in, she scans the room, and then she lands on someone. And when Nicole is looking at you, you are simultaneously being completely embraced by someone who's just seeing you for exactly who you are, while also being as if you're under a microscope, being, like, picked apart, you know, with, like, surgical tools, you know, really?

[Lola Blanc]

So.

[Ilana Auerbach]

So it's this. This cognitive dissonance sort of experience of, like, you like it, but then it's really uncomfortable and. Oh, but.

[Lola Blanc]

But like, you feel like you're growing. Because she's right. Is she pointing out things that you need to do to grow? Is that the idea?

[Ilana Auerbach]

Oh, absolutely, absolutely. And you also feel really seen.

[Lola Blanc]

Right.

[Ilana Auerbach]

And she's seeing these. I mean, she's embracing the dark parts of you and also showing you what you can do to grow, like you said.

[Lola Blanc]

Have you seen the movie Sound of My Voice? No, it's by this filmmaker, Brit Marling, who's amazing, but it's.

[Megan Elizabeth]

She's. It's so good. I love that movie.

[Lola Blanc]

She plays a cult leader, and I. It just. The way you're describing this sounds exactly like a scene in that movie. I just wanted to shout that out, but go on.

[Ilana Auerbach]

Okay, I'll have to watch that.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, I'll have to watch that.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I really do.

[Ilana Auerbach]

Yeah. So she. So she locks onto me and she starts, you know, what do you want? That's how the pulling desire starts. What do you want? And so I start to say, I want to have more fun. I want to have more creativity. I want to have more community. I want to have more orgasm. Okay, keep going. I want to have more passion. I want to have more purpose. I want to have more sex. Keep going, keep going, keep going. So finally, after quite a while, I finally get down to this place. Of, wow. I don't know if I could say that out loud. And then I did, and I said, I want to have a baby. And I'm sitting right next to Bill, and I've never even done. Just really admitted that to myself, let alone said that to Bill. And I was like, holy. But it felt so good to get that primal desire out. And I was like, yes. Not so fast. Nicole says, what else? I mean, I was at the bottom. And so then I start regurgitating some of what I'd already said. I want to have more sex. I want to have. I do want to have a baby.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I want to.

[Ilana Auerbach]

And then I start to get to realize what she wants me to say, and I know what she wants me to say. And finally, I capitulate and I give in and I say, I want to have a demo. And then she's like, did you feel it? Did you feel it? We hit bottom. That was it. That was the. That was the. The deepest desire at the bottom of her well of desire. And so this was something that Nicole was masterful at Washington, of. What was the jargon that she would call it? Affirming reality or something like that? Basically telling you what was happening. Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

That is such a. That's such a good manipulator already. Please continue.

[Ilana Auerbach]

She was. You know, we all thought she was a magician, but really, she was a master manipulator. And her tactic was that Nicole agreed that something was true if it matched what she wanted to hear. So clearly that's what she wanted to. To hear.

[Lola Blanc]

Right.

[Ilana Auerbach]

Because she wanted to groom me, and she wanted to get our money and to seduce Bill and I into her web there. So if you said something that she didn't like, she called it a lie. And if you had doubt, she knew how to increase your doubt until what she told you was true became what you believed.

[Lola Blanc]

Right.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Wow.

[Ilana Auerbach]

Yeah. So it is very insidious. She knew how to manipulate people into speaking the answers that she wanted to hear. Yeah, she did this all the time to me. But so. So I agree to be. Have this demo with Bill as my doer. Bill and I paid Nicole $15,000 back in 2004. You know, I don't know what that. That would be today.

[Lola Blanc]

That's how much a demo cost. $15,000 at the time.

[Ilana Auerbach]

Wow. Back then. Why?

[Megan Elizabeth]

What do you have to do to prepare for that?

[Ilana Auerbach]

She's supposed to be training us.

[Lola Blanc]

Okay.

[Ilana Auerbach]

She's going to be training us. It's indefinite. We haven't scheduled the demo because it could take Many months. Could take years, we don't know. But according to Nicole, this is a very good price.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Wow.

[Ilana Auerbach]

So, okay. Meanwhile, Nicole has this vision of getting her flavor of sexuality out into the world. And she envisions this community that is, you can imagine, concentric circles with her at the center. So the people who were most devoted, either in their blood, sweat and tears or their money, would have the most access to Nicole. And so it's about bringing people closer and closer in. Right. She used to get a lot of people coming into her courses from another transformational healing work community. However, her and the leader of that community had a falling out, so that dried up that source, so she had to think of something else. And that's when she came up with the idea of opening a storefront south of Market, which became the 1 taste center in San Francisco. And I had always, you know, 10 years before, I had had this vision of having a workout. Aerobics. I was really into aerobics back in the day before your times and coffee shop, bookstore and whatever. So this center that Nicole was opening was close enough to that vision I had had maybe a decade before that. I was like, okay, I'll do this. This sounds like fun. I was needing something to do. Okay, so we're shifting towards opening a center. Okay. Or Nicole's shifting towards opening a center, which meant I was shifting towards opening a center, too. And we paid this money a couple months later. This is like in May 2004. We're going away, and this is supposed to be the opening of my demo course. They rent a house up in Sea Ranch, and myself and Bill and Nicole and a few of her closest devotees come with us. Now, mind you, all this time, I can see how Nicole is manipulating other people. And she's really grooming me, even. Even at this stage, to be her second. She used to call me that, you know, like she. To stand in when she's not there. And I could see. I knew she was manipulating other people. She was teaching me how to manipulate other people, but I wasn't willing to see how she was manipulating.

[Lola Blanc]

So what did you think about that? About the fact that you could see that happening? What did you. How did you justify it?

[Ilana Auerbach]

You know, I. I justified it that, you know, that. That they were kind of dumb, right? Like, that I was better than them. Like, I saw myself as better. That they were willing to act like lap dogs and really kind of embarrass themselves to serve her and do really whatever she asked.

[Lola Blanc]

Right.

[Ilana Auerbach]

I mean, meanwhile, I mean, geez, how Dense could I be? However, you know, it's just like in the denial, right? You know, all the signs are there, and yet I'm unwilling to look at it because I'm unwilling to confront it in that moment until we're willing to have the courage to confront what we have been unwilling to see that's right there in front of our face.

[Lola Blanc]

Right?

[Ilana Auerbach]

And, you know, I thought I was smarter than. You know, I was always smart. So I was like, I'm smarter than them, and I'm a leader in this community. So even so, I wasn't the leader.

[Lola Blanc]

Right?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Was Erwan just like. No more.

[Ilana Auerbach]

He had his own group that, yeah, they were doing. We were now, like, all in with Nicole. Both got it. Anyway, here we are out in Sea Ranch, which is beautiful place, a couple hours north of San Francisco on the coast. They have a beautiful house. Of course, we go in and, you know, nobody says a word. Nicole takes the huge master bedroom. Bill and I are in a small room, you know, and we don't go outside. It's like two days there. The beach is right outside the windows. But we're all in the living room. And Nicole starts it off by saying, well, I surrender to all of you because you're here. You wouldn't be here if I hadn't surrendered to you. So now it's time for you all to surrender to me.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, my God.

[Ilana Auerbach]

Right? And so what the hell does that mean? Okay, I don't. So she does her thing, or she just goes around and works each of us. And really, she is very skilled at identifying what is your core wound. And so then hooking into that core wound and making it better. As long as you're connected with her. Like, she sees your core wound, and she'll make it better, but you have.

[Lola Blanc]

To go to her, right?

[Ilana Auerbach]

You know, so it's really just like assuaging the ego, you know, not healing any core, wounding. It's keeping the core wound intact, right? But just come to me and I'll make everything better. So, you know, mine is like, feeling like I don't matter. And so she knew that, and she would often ask me, well, what do I think of this one? You know, this one, Patricia, you know, she relies on you to not feel abandoned. So Nicole's like saying, patricia, you almost didn't come to this. Which taps right into her feeling abandoned, all of that. And. And she does reflect things that you don't see. So at one point in this, you know, hours long exploration of surrendering to Nicole, she turns to me and she says, you're rocking. And I hadn't even noticed that I was rocking, but I was. I was rocking to soothe myself, and I stopped. And then I had an interaction with Nicole where I felt simultaneously completely embraced and also being picked apart under a microscope. And then when she pulled away and turned her attention to somebody else, you know, because finally I finally gave in, and I said, okay, I surrender. I don't really know what that means, but I surrender. So I was willing to do that.

[Lola Blanc]

So.

[Ilana Auerbach]

But then when she stopped looking at me, I. You know, I could feel that loss. It was like, you know, I felt like I wanted to start rocking again, but now I had this awareness of this rocking habit I had.

[Lola Blanc]

So now you're craving this, like, attention from this person who's become this figure to you. I mean, like a maternal figure or like, how would you describe it?

[Ilana Auerbach]

You know, not so much maternal, just someone who really gets you. Yeah. Who's really gets you and makes it seem like she's really there for you. You. She really sees you. She understands you, and she'll be there for you. Not in a mothering way. Like, in a. You know, like, I. I love you. Because it wasn't love. It was really just like a depth of understanding of your psyche. Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

It feels like a lot of people feel lost. And she's like, and I can show you the way home.

[Ilana Auerbach]

Well, all of us, you know, until the wee hours of the morning, surrendered. Except for Bill. Yay, Bill.

[Lola Blanc]

Ah, Bill.

[Ilana Auerbach]

Bill. Bill was not willing to do it. He was like, I don't know what it means. I don't know what that entails.

[Lola Blanc]

Wow.

[Ilana Auerbach]

I'm not doing it.

[Lola Blanc]

Go, Bill.

[Ilana Auerbach]

I'm not doing it. She was pissed, I'm sure. Pissed. Wow.

[Lola Blanc]

That'S amazing.

[Ilana Auerbach]

He's a good one. I'm keeping it. Thank God. Thank God for Bill. I mean, I wouldn't have gone in there, likely, if it hadn't been for Bill. But I also could have stayed in had it not been for Bill. So.

[Lola Blanc]

All right.

[Ilana Auerbach]

Yeah. So she's pissed. She's, like, gone. The next morning, even before we woke up and we're driving back to San Francisco, and I remember being in the back of the car and someone else was driving, and I was thinking, what the was that? That was supposed to be my opening course for my demo of me being an orgasm for an hour. I did not get stroked once on my clit. Like, what is that about?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Wow.

[Ilana Auerbach]

And then I thought, like, then. Then I noticed this thought was like, well, it must have been what I wanted. And that was something that Nicole said and a lot of the members of the community, well, if that's what's happening, it must be what you want. So I started. That was the first time that I remembered that I was starting to mind myself.

[Lola Blanc]

Wow.

[Ilana Auerbach]

Yeah, like convincing myself, well, I guess that's what I wanted. If that's what happened, why didn't I say, you know, where's the table? Why am I not having a due date here? Wow. Ye.

[Lola Blanc]

The specificity with which you're describing this is amazing. I feel like few people can articulate these, like, very specific things that are happening in their brains and the manipulations that are happening. So I just really appreciate that.

[Ilana Auerbach]

I spent a lot of time writing this story, which was really healing for me and ultimately very, very meaningful in my whole journey with this. So I'm just working on this for this center that's about to open. Nicole found a spot. She's got this guy named Rob who, you know, had made a bunch of money in the dot com world, and so he was funding the center to open up the space, furnish the space. There was going to be a juice bar. There was a yoga studio upstairs and the whole idea, and a little shop to bring people in for juice or a healthy bite or a yoga class. And then, you know, bring them into the horses, bring them into the community and so forth. And so meanwhile, Bill and I were living in San Francisco and I had a house that was. The mortgage was really high. And Nicole said, listen, if you're going to be my second, you have to move down and live with us in Brisbane. And I thought, well, sure, because I can't afford to pay my mortgage anymore anyway because I'm not making any money. I'm just working for you for free.

[Lola Blanc]

So. Wow.

[Ilana Auerbach]

Now, Bill never left his job, thankfully, but I had a mediation practice at the time that I then let my fallow and just devoted all my time and energy to opening this center with Nicole. Meanwhile, the center's gonna open at the end of July 2004. And I'm like the poster girl. I'm on the front of all the posters and all of the marketing materials. So my ego's loving this shit. You know, it's like my parents are coming up for this. My Bill's parents are flying out from the east coast.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, wow.

[Ilana Auerbach]

I know, I know. It's so weird. And all my friends, it's like all my time is at this center. So I. I have some friends who have gotten involved with it, basically if you want to see me, you have to come to this center. That's where I am like, most of the time, other than being down in the house in Brisbane, just to sleep for a few hours a night.

[Lola Blanc]

And you're not getting paid at all?

[Ilana Auerbach]

Nope. No.

[Lola Blanc]

Wow.

[Ilana Auerbach]

And really, the group of us are doing whatever it takes to get the most approval from Nicole. Meanwhile, I'm learning how to get people to do what I want them to do, which was mostly whatever's going to get me approval from Nicole. So to get them into the course to have a session with her, you know, whatever.

[Megan Elizabeth]

How did the next day, after your demonstration, kind of failure where Bill didn't surrender? How did you guys, like, make it good with her again? Does she just forget and move on?

[Ilana Auerbach]

No, no, she's fine with me because I surrendered.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Right.

[Ilana Auerbach]

Bill? There's already some friction. So there's friction, and he's kind of moving away, and he's kind of stepping back, going, no, I don't really want to take over. The educational arm of the Insight Institute. That's what they called it at the time. You know, I don't really want to do that. Bill, much to his chagrin, was the one who came up with the name for the center called One Taste, which then became the name of the whole organization.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Wow. It is a brilliant name.

[Lola Blanc]

It is a good name.

[Ilana Auerbach]

She was really into Ken Wilbur. And so there was a book by that name by Ken Wilbur. And Bill just thought, hey, what about this?

[Lola Blanc]

So who's Ken Wilbur?

[Ilana Auerbach]

Ken Wilbur is a. He's like a Buddhist theorist, perhaps like a. An analyst as well. Nicole was really into Ken Wilburn. Alan Watts, a kind of Alan Watts, like, thinker. Like spiritual. More thinker than practitioner, I would say. Got it.

[Lola Blanc]

I'm curious as to the practice itself, like, how you looked at it. Was it a spirituality thing, or was it more just like trying to find your confidence as a sexual being? Like, how are you viewing the actual practice?

[Ilana Auerbach]

The actual practice was not a spiritual thing. It was never a spiritual thing.

[Lola Blanc]

Okay.

[Ilana Auerbach]

Nicole renamed it to market it as a spiritual practice and as a meditation, mindfulness practice. It was never about bringing your whole self to this practice. It was bringing your attention to your genitals or to your finger or to your hand. You know, if you're stroking a man's genitals, that's what it was. And asking for what you want to do. So and just surrendering to the sensation in your body and asking for what you wanted, which is a great practice to be able to Ask for what you want. Of course.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Ilana Auerbach]

No spirituality, no heart, no nothing. No.

[Lola Blanc]

Okay.

[Ilana Auerbach]

But I did have a spiritual practice, and I still do, and so did Bill. We were both students of Zen, so I was still having due dates, you know, with Bill. And we had a couple training sessions, but not much, you know, for my demo. And the practice was really. It feels good. It feels good. And it also energizes you and gets you high. It really does. And it becomes like an addiction. Like, you know, okay, you're feeling something, you're feeling a difficult emotion. Go have a due date. So it's like, go smoke a joint or go have a glass of wine. You know, it's the same kind of thing.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Have a due date just means do the 15 minute practice.

[Ilana Auerbach]

So it wasn't so defined back when I was involved. So she hadn't yet, you know, marketed it to such a degree of, like the structure and.

[Lola Blanc]

Right.

[Ilana Auerbach]

But it was just have a due date where, you know, someone's stroking you for a certain amount of time, but not with a timer. You know, that wasn't happening back then.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Got it.

[Ilana Auerbach]

These were the early days, the stone Age. Yeah. Bill actually went away on a week long meditation retreat, which was such a blessing for both of us. But basically, him going away allowed him to reconnect in with himself. And that's the. The power that Nicole had over a person was you had to be around her, which is why she wanted to always be up in everybody's business. I was suggesting when she was overwhelmed at one point, that people, not everybody go to her all the time with their issues. And she was like, oh, no, no, no, no. I want people to come to me. That's what I want.

[Lola Blanc]

Right.

[Ilana Auerbach]

But Bill had, you know, seven days to reconnect in and recognize. Wow. How he had disconnected from himself and also the harm that Nicole was causing, not only to himself, to our relationship, and also to those people around her. So he was really able to have that distance and see what was happening. And he came back and did not want to be involved at all. However, I was like 150% in, so he didn't want to leave me either. So we have this big grand opening. You know, I'm running around, I'm in charge of all these events that are happening at the center. And Bill is just becoming more and more Persona non grata. Nicole's ignoring him. Of course. The organization of the group is very much about being in or being out, and everybody wants to be in. You know, you want to be in with Nicole. So to be in with Nicole, if someone else is out, then you treat them out, too. You know, they're out for you. So people are ignoring him as if he's invisible. Like, standing in the kitchen of where we're living, like, is really, really detrimental. And I could see, you know, the harm happening to him. I can tell you another story or I could just go to the end.

[Megan Elizabeth]

One more story?

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, okay.

[Ilana Auerbach]

One more story. So it was after Bill was really taking a step back. It was a Saturday night, and there was a ton of. The whole place was a mess. The kitchen was a mess. Everything was a mess at the center. We had had some big event, and everybody was cleaning up, and there was Nicole sitting like, you know, the queen, not lifting a finger. And I said, what? You know, are you not going to help? Like, what? Come on. Yeah, she didn't do anything. And I flashed back to my Zen teacher at the time who was, like, in her 70s, okay? And at the end of a meditation retreat, and she's mopping the floor, so she's probably doing the worst, most heavy lifting job job of anybody.

[Lola Blanc]

Right?

[Ilana Auerbach]

You know, And. And so I just juxtaposed those two images. I was like, okay, this is off. You know, something. So that was another, like, crack. You know, I'd have these, like, moments of like, this is off. And so the next morning, Sunday mornings, we had a meditation at the One Taste center, and I was the timekeeper. So I show up that morning, and I'm still pissed. And the only other people who show up are Nicole and her boyfriend at the time. And so I'm kind of. I'm being icy, and I'm feeling really powerful, and I got that Lilith kind of energy. Like, you. You're not gonna. I'm angry. And I felt powerful and strong. And Nicole then says, well, how about we do a training session for your demo instead of the meditation this morning? And I was like, no, no. And so she's working on me, and she's working on me, and finally I acquiesce and I say, okay. And so, you know, we get out the massage table, and I get up on the table, and it's just me. And Nicole is stroking me, and her guy is right there, too. And as she's stroking me, I feel myself disassociating and disconnecting. And, yes, it feels good. The actual physical sensation. It's kind of like an abuser. Like when I've worked with people who have been sexually abused as kids, when it's so confusing, because often it feels really good because it feels good when somebody touches your genitals. Right. But yet it's so conflictual because you don't want it to feel good when this person is touching. Now, it's not exactly because I gave my consent. I was an adult. However, it's. It's similar because of the disassociation that happens.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah.

[Ilana Auerbach]

You know, often with, you know, sexual abuse survivors.

[Lola Blanc]

It's something that you didn't want to do. It sounds like she coerced you into doing something.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Ilana Auerbach]

And I did. I did agree. And yet, you know, I. I disconnected from that powerful feeling, inner Lilith, that anger. And I was back into Eve going along, and I was like, out of touch, out of my center and performing. So for me, a due date with Nicole became getting off how Nicole wanted me to get off. And, and then what I found since over the years, I've known many people and many people who stayed in. Unfortunately, I had a lot of friends and. And I was a loyal friend. And so people trusted me. And both Bill and I brought a lot of people into there and some people stayed for years. So I came to find out, you know, more and more she got very specific about, you know, this area of the clit is supposed to feel like this, and this is supposed to feel like this and for 15 minutes. And all this structure making it seem that there's a particular way that you're supposed to feel when your clit is touched in a particular way right now. So that for me then becomes a prison.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Right.

[Ilana Auerbach]

It was more of a performance and trying to get off the way Nicole wanted me to get off as opposed to getting off the way that is totally natural and innate and authentic for me.

[Lola Blanc]

Right. Which is the opposite of what she's presenting it as. Exactly for you. Which is a way to ask for what you want. I did notice, I watched some of their, like, online demonstrations on YouTube and stuff. And I took note of the fact that she very specifically says it must be the upper left quadrant of the clit. And, like, why is that? Just because that's where she likes it. Like, yeah, yeah. And, yeah, the 15 minute limit. I'm like, that's not where my pleasure spot would be. But, like, okay, Nicole, whatever you say. And what about women who, you know, maybe don't have orgasms in the same way or don't have orgasms at all? I mean, it just seems so, like, limiting and, like, it could very easily turn into, why am I doing this wrong? Why isn't this working for me?

[Ilana Auerbach]

Exactly, exactly, exactly. And I would say those women who feel like they don't have orgasms, they're just limiting the definition of the orgasm to, like, you know, having a lot of contractions of the cervix, you know, and going over the edge as opposed to. If you look at it as, like, the most sensation I feel in my body is right now in my pussy, maybe that could be an orgasm, you know? Right, yeah, if that's empowering to you. Right. But yes. I mean, the whole upper left hand quadrant thing is definitely from Vic Barranco, you know, comes from that. And sometimes it is the most sensitive part, but not all the time. You know, it's like. No, that's the whole point is that's why you're directing somebody to move around.

[Lola Blanc]

Right.

[Ilana Auerbach]

So meanwhile, Nicole is really grooming me. Like I said, she wants me to stay. She's grooming me to be her second. Where Bill, I can see. I mean, he's aging before my eyes. So I feel like I'm being pulled between the two of them. And so I go away by myself for just a night. I went up to Point Reyes and. And it didn't take long for me to. Once I was away, to just drop in and reconnect with a little bit of myself, more than I had been for, you know, 10 months at this point, nine months, and realize that, hey, I want to have it all. I mean, living in this communal house is really not good for Bill. So we've got to move out of that house. And I was still really committed. I. I've put in, you know, countless hours and energy into this center. I'm committed. I'm gonna. I was still, like, had drunk the Kool Aid and was feeling like, okay, I was still in. To partner with Nicole on her vision. So I'm driving back from being away, and I call up Nicole and I say, nicole, I know what I want. I mean, you always talk about, like, how this work that you do is about women having everything that they want, and I want to have everything. So I want to stay with Bill, and we're going to move out of the house, and I'm going to be your partner in one taste. I mean, I'm going to be at the center all the time that I'm always there. I'm just going to live back.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Back in.

[Ilana Auerbach]

In the city. The other end of the line goes silent. And then I hear her, like, Nicole knows best voice. Oh, honey, I don't know if you're gonna make it out of this one. What are you Talking about Nicole, I. I mean, I've made it out. I know what I want. I want, I want to have it all. Oh, honey, I don't know if you're gonna make it out of here. And then she hangs up the phone. Wow. So that is the master manipulator. So trying to delude me that I'm deluded.

[Lola Blanc]

Right, right.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Wow.

[Lola Blanc]

It's so abusive.

[Ilana Auerbach]

So I, I was in that place for a few days of like, I don't know where I am and I felt awful and everything is. And I'm really murky and you know, like in the fog, in the fog, I can't see anything clearly. Luckily, there was an intro evening for an upcoming course. And so I was there sitting on the couch. The couch was a place of leadership and kind of a hierarchical place. So I was sitting on the couch with Nicole that night. Well, she was in a bad mood and I was feeling really awkward because I was in this fog, not knowing what was really real. And Nicole announces that she's going to do a demo of a deliberate orgasm. And so there's electricity in the air of the women in the community because she's going to call on somebody. And so she calls Patricia's name. And I, I remember both feeling relieved and also a little disappointed. And so I was on the couch and Patricia drops her pants, climbs up onto the table. And I wanted to get out of the way of the show, if you will. So I moved to the back of the room, thankfully, like something, you know, had me move to the back. And so I start watching this and Nicole is like. And she's, you know, making a lot of noise and kind of like pushing, you know, she told me that during Patricia's demo back in February that that was not Patricia's orgasm, that that was Nicole's orgasm that she was pushing into her. She couldn't have done that years.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, God, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ilana Auerbach]

So this is Nicole also doing this whole thing. And at that moment, the rose colored glasses shatter and the spell like breaks. And I see like all of these men, mostly men, there are a few women who are like gawking and amazed at what they're saying. I mean, what they've happened upon for free. They're, they're, you know, coming to this evening seeing this woman get her pussy stroked. And I, I recognize that if Nicole had called my name, that would have been me up on the table. And I just saw it for the first time that how she was using Patricia and her, you know, sacred orgasmic energy in her body to get these people into a course.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Right.

[Ilana Auerbach]

And. And.

[Lola Blanc]

And.

[Ilana Auerbach]

And I was like, holy. And I. I think it was really just that recognition that. That I would have just done that in a second, jumped up, pulled off my pants and spread my legs and let her use me in that way, which she had before.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Right, right.

[Ilana Auerbach]

You know, I. I told her the next morning that I was leaving, and, you know, and Bill was obviously thrilled to leave, but it took years for me to really get her. I consider it like vampiric tendrils out of my system and out of my body with the help of a really powerful sister healer. Having a few sessions with her. This was probably like six months after I left. One taste she couldn't believe. She's like, I've felt this kind of energy before that's wrapped around you, but never been someone who's still walking the planet. It's more like people who had been dead or people who were no longer still in the body. So thanks to her, many, many blessings to my dear sister friend. And it was in looking at betrayal and how not only had I been betrayed by Nicole, who I trusted, but how I. Much more importantly, how I had betrayed myself. First with Bill, going along with Bill to go to the demo of Patricia, and then going along with what Nicole wanted me to do, to say I wanted to do my own demo. And it was in the writing. I spent several years writing on and off this story so I could just write it out.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And.

[Ilana Auerbach]

And it was a few years ago, and it was winter solstice, and I was in the tub, and I was going on a journey into the underworld at the darkest, longest night of the year. And something just happened. And it was. I was finishing up another draft of my story and my involvement with Nicole in One Taste. And I was singing. And I just remember, you know, my eyes were closed and I could feel. It's like I called Nicole in and we were just both, like, sitting, like, in the etheric, if you will, and sitting facing each other. And it was just like this burst of golden light. And I could feel all of her pain. And it was no longer, like, personal, and it was no longer her doing something to me or me, you know, betraying myself. It was just like this universal kind of human experience of wounding, you know, the wounded wounding another. And so I just. It was just infused with forgiveness and compassion. And I had spent quite a while steeping in different archetypal energies and was actually leading priests and priestess trainings for people to connect in with the archetype so I'm very familiar with the archetypal energy. So as these came in, I was inviting them and welcoming the energy of compassion, forgiveness. It was really kind of an unexpected, spontaneous healing and forgiving.

[Lola Blanc]

That's amazing. I mean, for somebody who has caused harm to so many people, I. That's very advanced of you to get to that place.

[Ilana Auerbach]

I don't know about advanced, but thank you. Because it wasn't like I had planned it or I had was attempting to do that.

[Lola Blanc]

Right.

[Ilana Auerbach]

And that's not to say that, which is why I'm telling my story to you. Thank you for asking me to tell this story is because I want people to know that there's real harm here and so don't be like me. And if you know, whether it's with Nicole or if it's with someone where you feel like you're giving your power over to someone else, you know, in a relationship, that my story, that that may be a window for you to see that there's another way, that there's a way to free yourself and to take your power back. Because, you know, I would have never been free in relationship and in serving Nicole. Yeah, that was not a dynamic for my, you know, liberation at all.

[Lola Blanc]

It sounds like it was really important for both you and Bill to have your own separate spiritual practice that you could eventually come back to to like reconnect with yourself and your own needs. I think that's something that's really important for people to have a practice outside of the person. Like have something else that you do that enables you to like get in touch with how you're feeling and what you need. That has nothing to do with the Nicole in your life, you know?

[Ilana Auerbach]

Absolutely, absolutely.

[Lola Blanc]

So now Nicole, since then, I mean, she's gotten so good at marketing herself. She's done a TedX talk. Gwyneth Paltrow gushed about one taste on goop. Khloe Kardashian recommended her book on her website. Like it's become this thing now. They're trying to get more mainstream and it's so expensive. The Bloomberg article, there's a big Bloomberg article about it, said that, I mean, there's so much information in that article about how abusive this group was. And not just Nicole, another woman as well, but said that it's $4,000 for a weekend retreat, $12,000 for a coaching program, $16,000 for an intensive, and there's a year long membership that's $60,000. And one woman and her husband left having spent $150,000 on one taste classes, like people just totally financially ruining their lives. They talk about how they just lost their connection with the idea of money. Like, she got them to a place where money was meaningless to them and debt was meaningless to them. And that's on top of all of the sexual practices where people are being directed to have sex with people and coerced into situations they don't want to be in. How for you, watching this thing grow and become this bigger thing where Nicole has, you know, gained more followers and gotten more power and got more money? Like, how has that experience been for you watching that?

[Ilana Auerbach]

Well, I can't say that I have been watching really closely. I'd say I was probably ignoring it until I got to the place where I had at least forgiven myself, you know, for the self betrayal. I had started writing my story back in like 2005, and so there was some regret that came up. It's like, oh, if I'd written my story and I'd gotten my story out there, could that have averted something? Because my story, it was always with the intention of as like a warning. Like, let my story be a warning for you. You know, I'm not interested in destroying Nicole. You know, she. That's her business. She'll do that herself.

[Lola Blanc]

You know, it's all.

[Ilana Auerbach]

Yeah, so. But it's more of a warning. And it's interesting because when my son was, I think less than a year, there was an article in the New York Times and this reporter came to our flat that we used to live in in Berkeley and interviewed Bill and I, and we were completely misquoted in the New York Times article about the reason why we left. It was a mostly positive article about one taste. And we had to write a letter that was published, you know, the following week, which of course, nobody. Nobody reads.

[Lola Blanc]

Right.

[Ilana Auerbach]

With the correction. So, you know, Nicole is a master seductress. So I could see that with the New York Times reporter and just on and on. So as she. She got bigger, you know, I think now because of the Bloomberg article, there was an FBI investigation. I don't know what happened with that. I know Nicole did leave the country for a while and supposedly was in Thailand. There were some. A couple of lawsuits that were settled. And yet I think that they were still had made like $12 million or something like that, you know, as. As a company.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah.

[Ilana Auerbach]

So that's not like a small thing. And yet, you know, it's. It's a cult. And I know, and I think I mentioned this to you, Lola that there is a documentary in the works. There are people, you know, in the entertainment industry who have been burned, like you said, by the way, I want to put in. I did get my money back from Nicole. That's when they were returning money. Yes.

[Lola Blanc]

I got my $15,000 back. Nice.

[Ilana Auerbach]

Which was part of the healing. It was like, no, you know, this is what I paid for. This is not what I got. Give me my money back. But they really got much slicker. And what I understand, she learned a lot about what not to do from Bill and I leaving to just cover her ass more. Even though, you know, stories of when there was a barracks and they were all living in bunk beds and bunk rooms, There was a. Like a dormitory building that a bunch of the people involved with one taste lived in south of Market. And Nicole would wake up in the morning with her lieutenants, I think she called them when I was around. She called it her seconds, but now she was calling, you know, making it more militaristic or something. They would sit on her bed and she would tell them who she wanted sleeping with who and what beds.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Wow.

[Ilana Auerbach]

Yeah. I mean, yeah, it got really super, super creepy. Even. Even worse, apparently.

[Lola Blanc]

I read some statements about how they've changed their practices, and one woman left and was like, I have to resign. I realized my behavior was maybe not up to par, whatever, but clearly it's just like putting the sketchy stuff, like, hiding it better is what it seems like to me. I also think it's a really interesting lesson in the idea that not only men are cult leaders. We have this really strong perception because the most famous ones have been. But she's doing all the same things. I mean, she's abusing sexual behaviors. She's getting drunk on her power. She's abusing people financially, or at least this is my opinion, that she's doing those things. Okay.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Allegedly.

[Lola Blanc]

Exactly the same way that all these male cult leaders do it. I mean, anybody can become that kind of figure. And I think that's important too, because, you know, I don't know. Women trust women more. Yes, sometimes.

[Ilana Auerbach]

Exactly. Exactly. Well, you know, as I went through why is this a Cult? Nicole was the unequivocal, charismatic leader who established herself as the single source of truth, full stop. Nicole's followers, including myself for those 10 months, followed her with zeal. There was no tolerance for questioning Nicole's authority or for critical inquiry. And dissent was prohibited. Followers who left were harshly judged and considered less than a strong us versus them mentality that in out was cultivated and Oming was used and prescribed as a mind altering practice to suppress doubt and keep members in tow. Yeah. All followers centered Nicole's desires and were expected to devote time, energy and money to fulfill them. And a focus on getting new members to join was prevalent. The message Nicole sold was liberation. But in actuality, what you received was bondage.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, that's an excellent description. Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Wow.

[Ilana Auerbach]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

What a story. My God.

[Ilana Auerbach]

What I also want to tell all those many, many people who hopefully will be listening to this. Once we're out on the other side of the pandemic, I imagine there will be a big push to resurge and you know, have a second, like a resurrection of one taste. And so everyone be really aware and wary. And if you hear about it, your friends are talking about it. Slow down.

[Lola Blanc]

Watching her TED Talk, the one thing that struck me is that she did the classic thing, which is you take something that's like basically true, which is that orgasm is good for you and being connected to other people is something that's good for you and sort of turning it into the solution for all problems as opposed to just, yes, it's good for you. Nicole is not the answer. That's all.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Can that be the title of this episode?

[Ilana Auerbach]

Nicole is not the answer. So are you.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Are you a therapist now? You seem like a healer.

[Ilana Auerbach]

What.

[Megan Elizabeth]

What are you?

[Ilana Auerbach]

Yeah, I'm a priestess. Yeah, so lots of healer, but, you know, not. Not in the talk therapy way, but more in the healing using archetypal energies. I practice cultivating, you know, really having people free themselves. Yeah, yeah. You know, loving ourselves exactly as we are.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And is oming or is masturbation or sexuality a big piece of what you think can heal? Or is that just a small.

[Lola Blanc]

It's not.

[Ilana Auerbach]

It's not at all a focus, but just enjoying our body, enjoying the senses, opening the senses, enjoying the smells that come our way and certainly having, you know, self love practices and love practices with a partner if, you know, we're so fortunate to have a partner. But that's all part of waking up and making love to the morning, you know, to the hummingbird that's outside. The cup of tea that I just. Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Oh, that's beautiful. I'm so happy that you got out and are able to share the story so eloquently. And it's just beautiful. Yeah. Thank you.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, thank you for sharing with us. Is there anything you'd like to promote or shout out or mention?

[Ilana Auerbach]

What I'd love to promote is for all of us to just trust ourselves more to take the time, like it's worth it to slow down. If something feels off, it is off. Our bodies don't lie to us. So take the time, take your space. Find a place that you know that you can connect more deeply. Whether that's in nature, whether that's in the bathtub, whether wherever that is in your bed, that you can really listen to your heart and listen to your body and listen to your soul voice. Take the guidance from there.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I love it.

[Lola Blanc]

Love that. Wow. Well, thank you so much.

[Ilana Auerbach]

Yeah, thank you both so much.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh man, she's so cool. I really like her.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I literally want to be her. She is so cool.

[Lola Blanc]

Here's the question, Megan.

[Ilana Auerbach]

Yes.

[Lola Blanc]

If you were obviously not knowing everything that you know, but if you were just like in Ilana's position or being exposed to a later version of Onetaste, do you think that you would join one taste?

[Megan Elizabeth]

I could see myself getting sucked into one taste for sure. It has a lot of NXIVM similarities to me, which are that like pushing yourself past blocks, you know, kind of self punishing shit that you and I both admit we could get really sucked into.

[Lola Blanc]

Totally.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

I think I would definitely go to one. I don't know that I would keep going, but I'm the kind of person who will go to weird shit just for the experience, you know, I went to Sanctum and I've worked at sex parties, not doing anything sexual, but still I'm interested in like going to all the things and seeing what's out there, if only for the story, you know, I just. I'm all about the story, man. Fucking love the story.

[Megan Elizabeth]

That's right.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I mean, I remember that you were like, we should go do this. And I was like, oh, wow. Okay. So I think you really would have gone, but they have shut those down for group.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, the groups are no longer happening. So now maybe I'll make a man do it to me one time and see what we think. I'm not gonna do that. Oh, okay.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I was on board for you to try it out.

[Lola Blanc]

Who knows? Maybe the upper left quadrant of my clit is the secret that I never knew.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Exactly. This is really inspired learning actually. I mean, yeah, I could see myself going, I wish that wasn't true, but it probably is.

[Lola Blanc]

Well, fortunately, now we know.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Now we know.

[Lola Blanc]

Now we know not to ever go if they ever bring the group thing back. So I would love to have another one taste guest on. I would love to see what the experience is like for someone more in the later years in addition to Ilana's amazing story from the beginning years. What a group. It does seem so nxivi in so many ways. But anyway, that's all I have to say about that.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, same I think. I think this week's guests taught us a lot and I can't wait for us to learn even more next week. Until then, remember to follow your gut.

[Lola Blanc]

Watch out for red flags, and never ever trust me.

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