Trust Me: Cults, Extreme Belief, and Manipulation
Episode: Sarma Melngailis – Part 1: Bad Vegan, Meeting Mr. Fox, and Early Red Flags
Release Date: October 22, 2025
Hosts: Lola Blanc & Megan Elizabeth
Guest: Sarma Melngailis
Episode Overview
In this revealing and empathetic conversation, Lola and Megan sit down with Sarma Melngailis—restaurateur, author of Girl with the Duck Tattoo, and the subject of the docuseries Bad Vegan. With candor and vulnerability, Sarma recounts her journey from a thriving New York businesswoman to the victim of a sophisticated, personal con orchestrated through manipulation, coercion, and emotional exploitation. Part 1 explores Sarma’s vibrant life before meeting “Mr. Fox,” her first encounters with him online, the web of red flags she missed, and the incremental tactics he used to insinuate himself into her life and finances. Along the way, the hosts draw essential parallels to coercive abuse, cult behavior, and the psychology underlying victimization.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
Setting the Stage: Success Before the Fall
- Sarma shares her impressive background on Wall Street and the transition to culinary school, launching acclaimed vegan restaurant Pure Food and Wine and the One Lucky Duck brand.
- Sarma: “I worked in investment banking and private equity… I left and went to culinary school, and I ended up in the restaurant business. Pure Food and Wine was my life’s purpose.” (12:37)
- Reflects on how personal fulfillment, not money, was always her motivation.
- Sarma: “For me, money was always a tool to build my business... I never had any interest in extravagant spending.” (13:32)
- Life was thriving yet emotionally fragile: Sarma describes exhaustion, heartbreak, and a sense of vulnerability after a transformative breakup—an ideal entry point for a manipulator.
Introducing “Mr. Fox”: The Digital Seducer
- Sarma recounts her initial connection with “Mr. Fox” via Twitter, made disarmingly normal by the impression that mutual friend Alec Baldwin knew him.
- Sarma: “Part of my guard was taken down because there was this perceived legitimacy... I assumed he and Alec knew each other.” (22:00)
- Early communication was characterized by humor, charm, and an uncanny skill at Words With Friends, which Sarma explains helped build rapport and fascination.
- The hosts probe the subtlety of grooming: the calculated mystery, strategic questioning, mirroring of interests, and the intentional delay in IRL meeting—all designed to deepen attachment.
The Power of Attention and Manipulation Tactics
- Sarma now recognizes that Mr. Fox’s flood of personal questions, deep interest, and mirroring were classic hallmarks of grooming and manipulation—information gathering, not real connection.
- Sarma: “He was asking me lots of questions and paying so much attention… Back then, I was just eating up that kind of attention.” (27:51)
- Lola (on grooming): “He was just asking me questions and molding himself according to the answers.” (27:51)
- Upon finally meeting face-to-face, Sarma is disappointed, but proximity and persistence allow Mr. Fox to “worm his way back in,” especially after borrowing money, which creates a financial tether. (32:33)
The Vulnerability Window
- Hosts emphasize that heartbreak, big life transitions, and exhaustion are prime windows for predators to gain influence, echoing patterns they see with cults and coercive control.
- Megan: “Breakups, deaths, big life changes... You’re just a sitting duck for this kind of thing.” (18:36)
Coercion, Gaslighting & the Trauma Bond
- Mr. Fox’s lies, relentless communication, and shifting explanations fostered confusion, chronic destabilization, and eventually trauma bonding.
- Sarma: “He would do some sort of sorcery on me so that by the end of the weekend, I'd somehow loaned him more money. ...It was a tether.” (49:20)
- Discusses the unique pain of being both tormented and comforted by the same person—a dynamic at the core of trauma bonding.
- Sarma: “He’s the only one who knows about the hell that he’s putting you through, and therefore he’s the only one who can comfort me.” (50:34)
Red Flags, Gut Instincts, and Overriding Fear
- Sarma describes the moment she received a photo that revealed Mr. Fox’s full face and felt an instinctive jolt of fear, which she ignored—a lesson now not lost on her.
- Sarma: “His eyes were so intense and dark, I was scared. The moment I looked at the text, I immediately felt a jolt of fear. ...At the time, I just overrode it.” (52:30)
- The group underscores how many victims override gut feelings out of politeness, self-doubt, or simple disbelief that someone would fabricate something so outrageous.
- Discusses the difficulties of intervening: Well-meaning friends like “Danny” who warned Sarma were rebuffed, mirroring classic cult psychology—direct challenges often don’t work.
The Money Spiral—How the Scam Escalated
- The first monetary request is small and designed as a dire urgent emergency—classic con artist maneuver. Over time, the amount and stakes escalate, leveraging guilt, confusion, and obligation.
- Sarma: “It was early on enough that I, at that point, had no reason to be angry at him... He acted like it was this sort of temporary crazy emergency.” (46:49)
- Ultimately, Mr. Fox scammed over $2 million via a combination of personal, business, and borrowed funds. (64:52)
- Mr. Fox’s demands and narrative always shift—when one goal is met, he moves the goalpost.
- He borrowed not only from Sarma but from others (including men), highlighting that conning is rarely limited to a single victim.
The Relentlessness of Sociopathic Control
- The hosts and Sarma discuss how sociopaths weaponize energy, endless communication, confusion, and persistence (“battering”) to wear down resistance.
- Sarma: “If somebody bombards you with really long text messages… anything where you wonder, 'how can they possibly put so much time and energy into this?'—that’s a red flag.” (59:53)
- Sarma identifies herself as someone with an autism diagnosis, which made her especially vulnerable to taking people at face value—a reminder that wiring or neurodivergence can impact susceptibility.
The Faux Authority and Grandiose Promises
- Mr. Fox wove a story of being a Black Ops operator, forwarding articles for Sarma to “connect the dots,” implying he worked in secret intelligence and was there to protect her. His secretive stories created mystique but sowed confusion and dependence.
- Sarma: “He had been talking about something similar the week before... He just had so much confidence about it all that it was like, okay.” (39:00)
Pivotal Moments & Notable Quotes
Early Red Flags and Vulnerability
- Lola: “There’s always this misconception that this kind of thing happens to people who, you know, aren’t doing these amazing things with their lives. You’re, like, a perfect example of somebody who is really smart, and you have all the accolades to prove it.” (11:12)
On Gaslighting and the Trauma Bond
- Lola: “When that person is both the creator of all your problems and the one dangling all the solutions, that is the trauma bond. That feels like love.” (42:16)
On Gut Instincts
- Sarma: “If you felt that jolt of fear, like, your body knows and run away from that.” (53:35)
Regarding Those Who Try to Help
- Sarma (on Danny’s warnings): “It’s part of the reason why people erroneously think that if they just confront somebody... you got to get away from them... you think it’s going to work but very often it won’t work.” (57:20)
The Reality of Manipulation and Victim Blaming
- Lola: “We just don’t understand the psychology of what happens in the mind of somebody who’s being abused to that extent. The victim blaming is crazy.” (04:32)
Notable Timestamps
- 11:36 – Sarma’s career trajectory: Wall Street to culinary school to Pure Food and Wine.
- 15:04 – Describing the restaurant’s unique culture and energy.
- 18:36 – The significance of breakups and vulnerability.
- 22:00 – Meeting Mr. Fox via Twitter through Alec Baldwin.
- 26:44 – Sarma’s confusion & uncertainty about Mr. Fox’s true identity.
- 32:33 – The turning point—first monetary request, the start of financial dependence.
- 49:20 – The tether of debt and recurring manipulation.
- 52:30 – Sarma’s immediate gut fear upon seeing Mr. Fox’s face.
- 57:20 – How direct warnings rarely work—Danny’s failed intervention.
- 59:01 – Sarma on being browbeaten into marriage.
- 64:52 – Final toll: Over $2 million scammed.
Memorable Moments
- Sarma’s realization: “I had this unfortunate repeating pattern of allowing dudes into my life who then came [for] a bunch of my resources.” (14:10)
- On giving Mr. Fox a chance to explain after discovering his criminal record:
“So naturally, I blocked all communication with him... Just kidding. I did not do that. Instead... I let him explain.” (42:51)
- On boundary violation:
Sarma recounts how Mr. Fox maneuvered himself into staying at her mother’s house, exploiting her politeness and discomfort with confrontation. (36:23) - Sarma’s warning: “I can’t think of any time I’ve ever felt fear or wary of somebody and then they turned out to be fine, you know what I mean?” (54:49)
- Hosts’ reflection:
“We always say: remember to trust your gut... Sometimes your body just knows some shit. If you notice something, pay attention to it.” (54:38)
- Sarma’s final thought on susceptibility:
“They [manipulators] do it to other intelligent, accomplished people.” (63:36)
Takeaways & Themes
- Anyone—regardless of intelligence, career, or background—can fall prey to manipulation given the right circumstances.
- Perpetrators use calculated mystery, strategic compassion, relentless messaging, and financial entanglements to build control and dependence.
- Red flags—especially gut-level fear or discomfort—are often overridden due to socialization, optimism, or disbelief that people could truly be so exploitative.
- Intervention with a friend or loved one in a coercive relationship must maintain the relationship, as direct attacks on beliefs rarely work and can backfire.
- Stories like Sarma’s demonstrate the vital importance of self-compassion, education, and awareness about the nuanced mechanics of manipulation.
What’s Next
This episode concludes part one of Sarma’s harrowing story. In part two, the conversation will dive deeper into the full extent of the scam, the unraveling of Sarma’s business and life, and her path toward recovery and understanding.
Final Note from Lola:
“These stories matter. They inoculate us. At least to some extent.” (67:33)