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Dallas Taylor
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Dallas Taylor
behind the world's most recognizable and interesting sounds. I'm Dallas Taylor. In our last episode, we explored the early life and career of legendary film composer John Williams. John got his start as a session piano player, recording with orchestras and pop singers, and then started composing for film and TV. In the early 70s, he teamed up with a young Steven Spielberg and scored two of his early blockbusters, Jaws and Close Encounters of the Third Kind. Through Spielberg, John met George Lucas and created the iconic music for Star Wars. By the end of the 1970s, John was the hottest composer in Hollywood, scoring huge films like the 1978 Superman movie, The Star of Superman. The late Christopher Reeve loved John's music and even showed up for the recording sessions.
Casey Emerling
In the liner notes for a Superman music compilation, John said, quote, he was
Dallas Taylor
kind of a fan.
Casey Emerling
He would sit next to the podium or sit in the recording room. And also later films that I did, Chris would come around sometimes even unannounced, and just sit and enjoy listening to the orchestra. In 1979, John was back with his friend Steven Spielberg. And after two consecutive hits, Spielberg is
Tim Grieving
on top of the world.
Casey Emerling
That's Tim Grieving, author of John A Composer's Life.
Tim Grieving
He gets his proverbial blank check to make his next movie, which is 1941, which is a, in my opinion, horrible whiff of something attempting to be a comedy set during World War II. It's a great score.
Dallas Taylor
But as for the film itself, well, if you've never heard of Steven Spielberg's 1941, there's probably a reason for that. Here's Roger Ebert's take.
Roger Ebert
With all his huge box office successes, even Steven Spielberg is human. And even Spielberg can make a stinker. And the big stinker of his Career was a 1979 movie named 1941, a critical and box office disaster that was supposed to be a non stop slapstick comedy, but only really qualified in the non stop department.
Tim Grieving
So it's coming off that that he makes Raiders of Lost Ark, which he does to kind of prove himself and to prove that he can make a film on budget and on time that works. That's tight. That's fun.
Dallas Taylor
The character of Indiana Jones was created by George Lucas and inspired by the action serials of the 1930s. George imagined him as an adventurer archaeologist who'd explore exotic locations and fight evil villains. Spielberg loved the idea and the two of them developed the movie together. Here's Lucas giving a toast to John Williams at an AFI awards ceremony.
George Lucas
Steve and I sat on the beach to talk about the story for Indy and instantly we both said at the same time, John has to write the music. Steve said, great, that's the most important part. Let's go have lunch and we can write the story later.
Tim Grieving
On Raiders, John had two possible themes and he played both of them for Spielberg. And Spielberg just said, can't we just use them both? So the Raiders march, which has kind of two parts, if you think about it, is the two alternate ideas that he demoed for Spielberg, which I like.
Dallas Taylor
The first melody is one idea, Shortly after we hear the second one. Now, Indy isn't a soldier, so it's interesting that John composed a military style march for the character
Tim Grieving
if you think about it, it's like, why does Indiana Jones have a march? I think what John Williams was tapping into was this nostalgia we have for past adventures. Like when we hear a march, it reminds us of something you might hear at a Fourth of July parade.
Dallas Taylor
George Lucas jokingly compared the Raiders music to Hogan's Heroes, a 60s sitcom set during World War II. Here's that show's credits theme.
Tim Grieving
There's just something kind of subtly comforting and throwback about the sound of a march and a marching band that fit with that character and with that adventure.
Dallas Taylor
The early 80s were a whirlwind for John.
Casey Emerling
He married his second wife, Samantha Winslow,
Dallas Taylor
who he met through some of the
Casey Emerling
work he did for a PBS station.
Dallas Taylor
And he had back to back hits with the Empire Strikes Back and Raiders of the Lost Ark.
Tim Grieving
He's just sort of on fire as a composer and working with directors who are giving him these amazing canvases.
Casey Emerling
On top of all that, an interesting
Tim Grieving
and important thing that happens in 1980 is he becomes the conductor of the Boston Pops.
Casey Emerling
The Boston Pops is an offshoot of the world renowned Boston Symphony Orchestra, which
Tim Grieving
is kind of an unusual zigzag for him. It wasn't really common for a busy, successful film composer to go conduct an orchestra, but he kind of wanted to prove that he could do more than just score films. He wanted to have more time with an orchestra that he basically could develop as a composer and a conductor with his own group. But it also put him kind of on a national television level. He was already famous because of the scores, but now he was on PBS conducting an orchestra from Symphony hall in
John Williams
Boston, John Williams, the Boston Pops Orchestra, and special guest Sammy Davis Jr tonight for an evening at Pops.
Tim Grieving
One of the important things about that is that film music had never really been taken seriously in concert halls before. It was seen as a kind of second class, sellout kind of music among a lot of classical folks. But slowly but surely, John Williams starts programming the best of film music in these concerts and just getting audiences and culture used to hearing this music in concert and taking it seriously and recognizing that the best film music is just great music.
Dallas Taylor
Under John's direction, the Boston Pops played pieces by all kinds of film composers, from John's heroes like Max Steiner. To his peers like Jerry Goldsmith. To himself.
Tim Grieving
So throughout the 80s and into the early 90s, he was doing that. And he took the Pops on tour throughout the country, took them on tour to Japan. It was a really important part of his life. Every summer and every Christmas, conducting all these concerts. In Boston tonight, John Williams and the Boston Pops Orchestra invite you to a Christmas at Pops.
Dallas Taylor
But conducting an orchestra didn't slow down John's work as a film composer. And in 1982, he scored Spielberg's next movie, E.T. the Extraterrestrial. In the film's most famous scene, a group of kids are riding bicycles with ET In a basket and being chased by the authorities. Then ET Uses some alien magic to make the bikes fly into the air so they can escape. John wrote a long, dynamic piece to score that section, but when it came time to record it with the orchestra,
Casey Emerling
he had a hard time matching it to the picture edit. Here's John in an interview with conductor Stephane Deneve.
John Williams
I was trying over and over again. It's a long sequence, about 10 minutes, and every bar has something. Something to match here. And if it doesn't match on the screen, it doesn't have its effect. It doesn't really look right. And I made, I don't know how many takes, how many performances, attempts to do this. I couldn't get it right.
Dallas Taylor
So Steven Spielberg stepped in, saying, john,
John Williams
just play the music. I know it fits. It has exactly the silhouette of the action. You have the orchestra play it where it's comfortable.
Steven Spielberg
And I will recut the film to the orchestral performance, which he did.
Dallas Taylor
This is a pretty rare move in filmmaking. The music almost always follows the picture edit, not the other way around. And it's a testament to how much Spielberg trusted John. Here's a clip of how the scene turned out. The kids are trying to get away on their bikes. There's a roadblock. They're about to be caught and then lift off.
Tim Grieving
Whoa.
John Williams
Whoa. And I have a feeling that something about the end of that movie, which is so moving, I have to think that some of that emotion that we get is because the orchestra was allowed to play without any inhibition.
Dallas Taylor
John later told Stephen Colbert that of all the scores he'd written, ET Is probably his favorite. He explained how the main musical theme develops through the story.
John Williams
We remember the film when the bicycles take off and. But prior to that, the bicycles, you will hear two or three notes of the theme, that's all. And the next time, you may hear three or four notes, And it's beginning to form in your memory as we're going along with the thing. And as the bicycles take off, you hear all 12 of the notes, and the melody is realized and finished. I like to believe that the audience has a sense of completion, and something has been made orally that has created and aimed at that very moment.
Dallas Taylor
As the 80s went on, John scored his third Star wars film, two Indiana Jones sequels, and many others. He also wrote two themes for the Olympics, one for the Los Angeles Games in 1984, And won for the soul games in 1988. Then in 1990, John scored a movie about a boy who accidentally gets left behind on Christmas, Home Alone. It was John's first chance to write Christmas music, and after watching the rough cut, he wanted to score these comedic hijinks like a ballet. For the chaotic scene where Kevin's family realized they overslept, John borrowed from Tchaikovsky's Christmas ballet, the Nutcracker. This music is from Home Alone. And here's the Russian dance from the Nutcracker. For the title theme, John wrote a legit Christmas carol that's since become a holiday classic. The lyrics were written by British songwriter Leslie Bricus, who also co wrote the songs for Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. It's called Somewhere in My Memory. As John told Variety, I think Home
Steven Spielberg
Alone is very special.
John Williams
It's a timeless peace. It ages very, very well. Very rewarding and very satisfying.
Dallas Taylor
The same year that Home Alone came out, sci fi author Michael Crichton published a novel about scientists bringing dinosaurs back to life. It was called Jurassic Park. Several directors tried to get the movie rights to the story, including James Cameron, Tim Burton and Joe Dante. But Crichton wanted Spielberg to adapt his book and Spielberg agreed. And as usual, he asked John Williams to score it.
Tim Grieving
The interesting thing about the approach to Jurassic park score is you would think that it would just be scored like a straight up monster movie, a creature movie.
Dallas Taylor
For example, here's the theme from a 1950s dinosaur movie called the Beast from 20,000 Fathoms.
Tim Grieving
But John Williams, being the genius, genius that he is, recognizes that there's something kind of religious about the way the scientists feel about seeing dinosaurs come back to life. They're in awe.
Dallas Taylor
Here's Steven Spielberg in an interview with Deadline.
Military Representative
John talked about the nobility of these animals. We never called them monsters. We never called them dinosaurs. We called them animals. John scored this movie with the heart of a child that knew how to create a sense of wonder about these amazing, magnificent animals.
Tim Grieving
And so the theme for Jurassic park, there's multiple themes, but there's a theme for it that is this kind of serene hymn like melody that is tapping into the awe and wonder and almost kind of religious grandeur of the way these characters feel. People have walked down the aisle to the Jurassic park theme, which on its face seems ridiculous, but if you hear the music, it's perfect for a wedding. And obviously there's action and terror and stuff in that score, too.
Dallas Taylor
But Jurassic park wasn't the only Spielberg Williams collaboration from that year.
Tim Grieving
Steven Spielberg couldn't attend the scoring sessions for that because he was already in Poland shooting Schindler's List. So it was kind of an unusual timing thing where they couldn't be together. They saw the film together, and then John Williams was on his own to do his thing at that point. Spielberg trusted him so implicitly that he knew he'd do a great job. And they would send cassettes over to Poland for Spielberg to listen to on his way to and from set shooting Schindler's List. So it's a really strange juxtaposition of this, like, escapist fun, popcorn, dinosaur movie while Spielberg is in the cold making this harrowing Holocaust drama.
Dallas Taylor
Schindler's List is based on the true story of Oskar Schindler, a German member of the Nazi party. During the Holocaust, he helped save over 1200 Jews by employing them in his factories.
Casey Emerling
As John told Deadline, when Spielberg showed him the rough cut, John was so moved that he couldn't speak.
Dallas Taylor
So he went outside for a few minutes to get some air.
John Williams
And I went outside and walked around for four or five minutes and came back in to start our meeting. And I said to him, stephen, this is a great, great film and you need a better composer than I am to do this score. And he said, I know, but they're all dead.
Tim Grieving
Schindler's List was a tricky challenge because they're dealing with real history and some of the most, like, daunting, sobering history of the 20th century. And so they felt this real burden and responsibility to do it right. And part of the idea with Schindler's List was let's not overscore it. Let's leave a lot of it clean and without any music at all. The whole visual approach to that was make it feel like a documentary almost. It's in black and white. There's not a lot of fancy crane shots or anything like that. So the music had to sort of honor that same approach of austere and respectful. But the thing that John Williams keyed into was the score should not be about the tragedy and the brutality for the most part. It should be about the humanity of these people. And he came up with this theme that's like a Jewish lullaby, basically. And it's a sad piece, but really it's a piece about something you might hear as a child and the comfort that that brings and just emphasizes the souls and the humanity of these characters.
Dallas Taylor
Schindler's List earned John his fifth Academy Award, following Fiddler on the Roof, Jaws, Star wars, and E.T. in his acceptance speech, John thanked his music editor, the Boston Symphony Orchestra, and ended with and for a man who
Steven Spielberg
always makes work fun and is a seeming unending source of inspiration, Steven Spielberg. Thank you.
Dallas Taylor
By this point, John was more than 35 years into his film composing career and he wasn't slowing down. Soon enough, he'd score one of the most iconic war movies of all time.
Military Representative
This is one of the most requested scores throughout our entire United States military.
Dallas Taylor
And he'd reinvent the music of Star wars with an epic choral theme.
George Lucas
It's a wonderful piece of music with a choir and it's very operatic and very much like Star Wars.
Dallas Taylor
That's coming up after the break. You know why I love summer? All those plans we made finally make it out of the group chat and into the real world world because there's more time to fit everyone in. Whatever you've got in store this summer, capturing those memories with your crew is a must. And the iPhone 17 Pro from AT&T helps you do just that. Its center stage front camera Auto adjusts the frame to fit everyone into group selfies. You don't even have to turn your phone. That means no awkward cropping or asking strangers to take it. Just the perfect group selfie every time. And ATT makes sharing those moments with everyone easy because you have to share the picture and or it didn't happen, right?
Casey Emerling
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with eligible trade in requires. Eligible plan terms and restrictions apply. Subject to change. Visit att.comiphone or visit an ATT store for details. Congratulations to Duane Ament for getting last episode's mystery sound. That's the beeping pattern you'd hear in an older Honda when you inserted your key or left the door open. The four quick beeps are actually a little branded easter egg. It's the letter H in Morse code.
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Dallas Taylor
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Anyone who guesses it right will be
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Dallas Taylor
By the late 90s, John Williams had already had an astonishing career. With hit movie after hit movie, he had helped bring big sweeping film scores back into the mainstream.
Tim Grieving
It was not inevitable that John Williams would be able to do the kind of scoring that he did. The old fashioned orchestral, melodic, operatic kind of score had gone out of fashion in like the 1950s. So people like Martin Scorsese and other contemporaries of Spielberg and Lucas are not looking to that kind of scoring approach. They're looking to pop music or something unconventional or modern. So it was because Spielberg and Lucas were these kind of big kids who had this nostalgia for old movies from the 30s and 40s and had this sort of classical sensibility that they wanted someone like John Williams to do the kind of scores like Star wars and Raiders, that it was like lightning in a bottle of the timing of these guys all making movies together at the same time, which then was insanely popular and made millions of dollars at the box office.
Dallas Taylor
By 1998, John Williams and Steven Spielberg had made 15 films together. And their next collaboration was the World War II epic Saving Private Ryan. Keep in mind, John was born in 1932 and he remembered growing up during World War II. So for him, this story wasn't distant history. And he wanted to do it justice, but he felt that using too much music would take away from the realism. So for many of the battle scenes, they left music out. Here's John in a behind the scenes featurette.
Steven Spielberg
Most of the battle scenes were done in a realistic way. So we had the sound of the tanks and the sound of the guns and all of the atmosphere of the struggle. And the music really struck the emotional part of it. And the quieter scenes really.
Dallas Taylor
The movie's main musical theme is called Hymn to the Fallen, which doesn't play until the end credits.
Steven Spielberg
The Hymn to the Fallen was kind of a set piece. You had the sense that we needed a kind of requiem almost for the people lost in the film. And how to do that tastefully and discreetly and quietly and hopefully elegantly was the opportunity that it presented. And of course, chorus and orchestra still the best medium for that kind of thing.
Dallas Taylor
When describing this score to Deadline, Spielberg
Military Representative
said, musically, it honors all of the veterans, both today and yesterday. And it's why the military is always asking if they could play, perform this score. This is one of the most requested scores throughout our entire United States military.
Dallas Taylor
A year later, John would lean into this choral sound again. This time it was for a new Star wars movie, the Phantom Menace. The film's most famous piece, plays during the epic final battle when Obi Wan and Qui Gon Jinn fight Darth Maul. It's called Duel of the Fates. In dueling with the making of the Phantom Menace, John said the great sword
Steven Spielberg
fight at the end of the film. The decision to make that coral was just the result of my thinking that it should have a kind of ritualistic or quasi religious feeling to it, if you like, and that the introduction of a chorus might be just the thing.
Dallas Taylor
This is the first time that a chorus had appeared in a Star wars score. So for this ancient alien universe, what words should the choir sing? To start, John used a medieval Welsh poem called The Battle of the Trees. It's about a sorcerer who makes trees come alive and fight the forces of the otherworld. This poem was likely an inspiration for the Ents in Lord of the Rings.
John Williams
Come, my friends, the ents are going.
Dallas Taylor
John took two lines from the poem and translated them into multiple languages. He picked the ancient language, Sanskrit, because he liked the vowel sounds. Next, he rearranged the words by ear, moving syllables around until it felt right. Then it was just a matter of coaching the choir. Here's John working with them in a scoring session.
Steven Spielberg
I've chosen these Sanskrit words because of the quality of the vowels. Do it again, please. See how pure a choral sound you can get. Don't force it. So that's better.
Dallas Taylor
Here's the final version. Here's George Lucas describing the piece in that behind the scenes documentary.
George Lucas
It's a wonderful piece of music with choir and it's very operatic and very much like Star Wars.
Dallas Taylor
Through the years, John has developed very specific preferences for how he likes to work. For instance, some composers will begin writing music when all they have is a script or maybe the storyboards. But John doesn't like to start writing until he can see the actual footage. As he told npr, I over the
Steven Spielberg
years have always felt more comfortable if I could go into a projection room and look at a film and not really know what to expect. If you read the script first, you form all kinds of preconceptions about how things look, what the location's like, what the actors are like. And then you may look at what the directors chose and it doesn't comport with your approach conceptions at all.
Dallas Taylor
But screening the film lets him experience it like the audience will.
Steven Spielberg
If I had the luxury of going into the dark projection room and being surprised when the audience is surprised and being bored when they're bored, I think that gives me a sense of what my job is, where I can press the accelerator button if I need to, or support an emotion or don't.
Dallas Taylor
When he does start scoring, he does it the old fashioned way.
Tim Grieving
He learned how to score films in the the 1950s, which meant you worked with pencil and paper and a stopwatch. And he never really changed. He never was interested in technology. He's never owned a computer, he doesn't own a smartphone. He eventually had to have people kind of translate his stuff to pro tools and, you know, the digital machinery of modern filmmaking and modern recording. But his actual process is still doing his whole orchestration or some like condensed version of the orchestration on paper. He doesn't even really write at the piano. He will just go to the piano sometimes to solve a problem or to figure something out. But he's actually mostly just writing in his head. And he knows timing so well that if this needs to happen within a couple of seconds or this piece needs to last two minutes, he knows in his head timing of music innately, which is pretty astounding
Dallas Taylor
in the 21st century. John has stayed very busy on the franchise side.
Casey Emerling
He scored two more Indiana Jones films
Dallas Taylor
and five more Star wars movies, completing the nine film Skywalker saga.
Tim Grieving
John Williams could have left that series at any time and no one would have blamed him. But he really clung to it. And partly it was out of loyalty to people like George Lucas, but part of it was that Star wars was his baby and he didn't want other people messing around with his themes and with his music. So he just stayed on Star wars. Which again, I think is why Star wars will kind of define his legacy.
Casey Emerling
The Star wars sequel trilogy revolves around a new force, sensitive character named Rey. And Rey's theme is probably the most well known piece of music from the new series. Here's John in a featurette called the
Dallas Taylor
Sound of a Galaxy Ray.
John Williams
Her theme has a musical grammar that is not heroic in the sense of a hero's theme. It's kind of an adventure theme that maybe promises more than resolving itself in the most major triumphant resolutions.
Casey Emerling
Meanwhile, John has continued working with Steven Spielberg on almost everything that he makes, including Catch Me if youf Can,
Dallas Taylor
War of the worlds. And Lincoln.
George Lucas
Again.
Tim Grieving
He doesn't have anything to prove. He doesn't have to keep working, but he just. He loves composing, he loves challenging himself. He loves to do something he's never done before.
Dallas Taylor
John has also continued to conduct live orchestras, including annual concerts at the Hollywood bowl with the Los Angeles Philharmonic. In 2025, the Hollywood bowl renamed their stage the John Williams Stage.
Tim Grieving
And he just kept proving that good film music is really fun to play for musicians and fun to hear for audiences. And it's great music. And within the last five or 10 years, he was even invited to conduct the Berlin and the Vienna Philharmonic and these sort of like historically important symphony orchestras, which just felt like a coronation of a kind of like. He proved the case that film music belongs in these concert halls where great classical music is played, and that even the most snobby kind of serious, discerning orchestras wanted him to come bring his music into their houses. In short, he conquered Hollywood and then he sort of conquered the classical world after that.
Dallas Taylor
Several years ago, Tim started Working on his book about John, which is the first major biography of this iconic but very private man.
Tim Grieving
He was never comfortable with the idea of having a biography, so that was the thing we had to get over. It took me a long time to even get in the door for that.
Dallas Taylor
But eventually Tim broke through and John agreed to be interviewed.
Tim Grieving
It was like a dream come true for me because I've been obsessed with John Williams since I was 9 years old, which is when I heard Jurassic park for the first time. So to go into his office where he wrote Jurassic park and see the piano where he wrote the themes for ET And Jurassic park on was just like out of body for me. And he put me at ease right away. And it was like a sitcom of like a young fan talking to a brilliant artist, genius. But we developed a certain kind of rapport that I looked forward to those days of going into his studio. And I kind of had a captive, John Williams, that I could just. Anything I ever wanted to ask him, I could ask him. It was amazing.
Dallas Taylor
Through those sessions, Tim got to know John in a way that probably no other journalist has.
Tim Grieving
John Williams has always seemed like a man out of time. Like he seemed like an old man in a young man's body from the beginning. Yo Yo Ma kind of described him as Santa Claus's brother. Someone else talked about him being like this schoolteacher in a 19th century Vermont schoolhouse. He's got this sort of like mannered, genteel, intelligent, kindly, grandfatherly quality. And he's always had that. And obviously as he became more of a grandfather type, it fit more. But he's always been like that. He's always been serious about his craft, but not taking himself too seriously. He's a lot funnier than maybe people realize. He's not like a boring hang. He's very fun, but his habits are consistent. He eats the same lunch every single day. It's a turkey sandwich with orange soda. He has the same routine. He gets up at the same time. He works for the same amount of hours. He finishes the day by playing around a golf and then having a drink. He reads music at night. He doesn't listen to it, he just reads it off the paper. He reads books about history, about music history, about all kinds of things. He's maybe the smartest person I've ever met in my life.
Dallas Taylor
But it's not just John's routines and habits that are consistent. It's also his working relationships.
Tim Grieving
Every person I interviewed confirmed that he's the nicest guy. Everybody loves him. He never Loses his temper and he doesn't have a huge ego, which for someone with his success and his resume, he should have a huge ego, but he doesn't. He's genuinely very humble. So one of the challenges of writing a book about him was his life is not full of drama. It's not like he's out there burning bridges in these big fights with people or, you know, he spends most of his life hunched over his scores or at the piano or conducting concerts.
Dallas Taylor
Beyond that, he has a wife of almost 45 years, along with three grown children and multiple grandchildren.
Tim Grieving
There's not a lot going on in his personal life beyond those things. It's just. It's all consumed by music. But I think it's part of who he is is that he has such a high standard of excellence for himself that I think is remarkable. But it speaks to why he's been so successful.
Dallas Taylor
In 2022, John scored Steven Spielberg's film the Fablemans, a coming of age story about a boy who falls in love with filmmaking. It's basically a fictionalized version of Spielberg's early life.
Tim Grieving
John Williams is 90 when he scores the fable Men's. A lot of people think it's maybe gonna be his last score. It would be a really fitting final score because it's basically him scoring the story of his friend's childhood. And John Williams knew Spielberg's parents, they would often go to scoring sessions. And so John had some affection for the real Mr. And Mrs. Spielberg. And his theme was basically a love letter to them and to Steven Spielberg. And it's a very tender score. There's this beautiful main theme that's basically about the mother son relationship. And it sounds again like a lullaby or something you could hum or you'd hear your mother humming when you're a kid. And it's beautiful. It's one of the most beautiful themes he's ever written, I think.
Dallas Taylor
Year after year with film after film, John has tapped into something that millions of people connect with, creating some of the most iconic and moving moments in cinema history. His scores strike a perfect balance between accessible and intricate. So no matter your age, your background, or your knowledge of music, there's something for everyone to latch onto.
Tim Grieving
So much of his music is seeming simplicity on top and all this complexity underneath the surface, which makes musicians enjoy playing it. It's challenging to play. It's interesting to play. It also makes it something you love as a kid or you love at first listen, but then you can go deeper and deeper and just keep exploring the depths of his music.
Dallas Taylor
John could have retired decades ago and he'd still be one of the greatest, greatest composers of all time. But he never stopped. As of this recording, John is 94 years old and still scoring movies. His latest film is Disclosure Day, which is his 30th collaboration with Steven Spielberg. Here's John describing their decades long relationship to cnn.
John Williams
He's a close friend, he is family and I love him dearly. He's an inspiration. He's amused. He's also not something. He's not someone you can say no to.
Dallas Taylor
John might jokingly blame it on Spielberg, but leaving music behind just isn't in his DNA.
Tim Grieving
I think music is oxygen to him. I think it's what's kept him going and kept his mind so sharp and he doesn't want to do anything else. And I've asked him about retirement or whatever and he just says, why would I retire? Why would I stop doing the thing that gives me such pleasure? And I think as long as his mind and his body allow him, he'll just keep writing music.
Dallas Taylor
In an interview with conductor Stephane Deneve, John summed up his feelings by quoting a famous composer, Sergei Rachmaninoff.
John Williams
Music is so fabulous. I can just give you what is now a cliche, but it's a great quote of Rachmaninoff's who says finally, that a lifetime of music is enough for a lifetime. But no lifetime is enough for music. Music is for me.
Steven Spielberg
Our greatest gift,
Dallas Taylor
20,000 Hz is produced by my sound agency, Defacto Sound. Hear more@DefactoSound.com or by following Defacto Sound on Instagram.
Casey Emerling
This episode was written and produced by Casey Emerling with help from Grace East.
Dallas Taylor
It was sound designed and mixed by Brandon Pratt and Jade Dickey, thanks to our guest, Tim Grieving. Tim's book is called John A Composer's Life. You can find it wherever books are sold and there's also a link in the show notes. Finally, think of someone you know who would really appreciate the story of John Williams. Then Open Up Part 1 of this story in your podcast app, tap, share and send it to them. You can find me on YouTube, Instagram and TikTok under the name Dallas Taylor MP3. Thanks for listening.
Casey Emerling
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Dan Heath
I'm Dan Heath on what it's like to be I interview people about their jobs. Here's a married couple that drives a long haul truck together.
Tim Grieving
We backed up and they loaded fresh dead rats.
Dan Heath
I mean, how many rats would you guess were back there?
Dallas Taylor
There were 32,000 pounds of them.
Dan Heath
32,000 pounds of frozen dead rats. Find out what it's like to be a long haul trucker, a couples therapist, or an FBI agent. All on the podcast. What it's like to be.
Host: Dallas Taylor
Date: June 15, 2026
Guest: Tim Grieving (author of John: A Composer’s Life)
Episode Focus: An immersive exploration of John Williams’ career, impact, and enduring musical legacy through personal stories, behind-the-scenes insights, and musical analysis.
This episode of Twenty Thousand Hertz dives into the monumental legacy of John Williams, acclaimed composer of some of the most recognizable film music in history. Host Dallas Taylor—joined by biographer Tim Grieving—traces Williams’ journey from Hollywood orchestras of the '60s to his seat at the heart of the world’s most cherished cinematic adventures, including Star Wars, Indiana Jones, E.T., Jurassic Park, and more. The episode not only unpacks his creative process and iconic collaborations (especially with Steven Spielberg and George Lucas) but also examines his influence in reshaping the world’s appreciation for film music.
Superman (1978)
Raiders of the Lost Ark (1981) & The Power of the March
Home Alone (1990)
Jurassic Park (1993): Awe Over Monsters
Saving Private Ryan (1998): Sparse and Tasteful
Star Wars Prequels: Duel of the Fates (1999)
Scored all nine Skywalker Saga films, out of personal attachment:
Continuing to perform, conduct, and compose into his nineties; Hollywood Bowl renamed its stage in his honor ([33:07]).
On Creative Trust:
On Humility and Humanness:
On Why Retire?
On the Limits of Life & Music:
John Williams remains not only the composer behind generations’ most beloved movie themes but also a deeply humble, consistent, and devoted artist. With 30+ Spielberg collaborations, an unbroken chain of iconic scores, and undiminished creative energy well into his nineties, Williams stands as the bridge between Hollywood’s golden age, present-day blockbusters, and the concert hall. His legacy is as much about capturing childlike awe and deep emotion as it is about technical mastery—his music, as his admirers and collaborators attest, feels both inevitable and intimately personal, for musicians and audiences alike.
For more, check out Tim Grieving’s biography, “John: A Composer’s Life.”