Episode 317 - The Curse of the Iceman: A 5,300-Year-Old Murder Mystery

Summary

Summary of "Two Girls One Ghost" Episode 317 - The Curse of the Iceman: A 5,300-Year-Old Murder Mystery

Released on April 13, 2025, "Two Girls One Ghost" hosted by Corinne Vien and Sabrina Deana-Roga dives deep into the enigmatic discovery of Otzi the Iceman and the mysterious curse rumored to follow those involved in his unearthing.

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1. Introduction

Corinne Vien and Sabrina Deana-Roga kick off the episode by sharing eerie experiences from their podcast studio. Corinne recounts unsettling incidents involving her child, Noah, who had a terrifying encounter with an unseen presence in their workspace.

Corinne [01:46]: "There’s been a lot of odd noises, and we haven't quite figured out what is going on."

These supernatural occurrences set the tone for the episode, blending personal ghostly tales with historical mysteries.

2. The Discovery of Otzi the Iceman

The hosts transition to discussing one of archaeology's most significant finds: Otzi the Iceman. Corinne paints a vivid picture of Otzi's tragic journey in the Alps over 5,300 years ago.

Corinne [05:16]: "Writer Corinne comes in the cold sears Otzi's lungs, but he forces himself forward. Each step a battle..."

Otzi was discovered in September 1991 by German hikers Helmut and Erika Simon in the Otztal Alps, straddling the Austrian-Italian border. Initially mistaken for a recent mountaineer, further examination revealed Otzi's true age and historical significance.

3. Archaeological Significance and Physical Analysis

Otzi's remains provided an unprecedented glimpse into the Copper Age, with his body remarkably preserved by the glacier ice. The hosts delve into the details of his physical condition, tools, and attire, highlighting the advanced techniques of the time.

Sabrina [12:07]: "I like, can't stop looking at these photos."

Otzi stood about 5'3" and was estimated to be 45 years old, a respectable age for his era. Analysis revealed signs of Lyme disease, cardiovascular issues, and parasitic infections, painting a picture of a man who endured significant physical hardships.

4. The Murder Mystery Surrounding Otzi’s Death

The crux of the episode centers on Otzi's untimely death. Corinne explains that an arrow lodged in his shoulder, discovered years after his initial examination, confirmed that Otzi was murdered.

Corinne [29:45]: "He died by arrow. Like someone shot him with an arrow."

Various theories emerge about the motive behind Otzi's murder, ranging from territorial disputes during hunting trips to possible conflicts within his community. The preserved tools and injuries suggest a violent struggle, making Otzi's death a compelling ancient murder mystery.

5. The Curse: Unusual Deaths Linked to Otzi

A chilling aspect discussed is the so-called "curse" surrounding Otzi. Several individuals directly involved in handling and studying Otzi met untimely and mysterious deaths.

Corinne [35:09]: "The curse first struck in 1992. Rainer Henn, the forensic pathologist who'd handled Otzi's remains with his bare hands during transport, was the very first victim."

From car accidents to avalanches and health issues, the episode lists multiple deaths, sparking debates about whether these incidents are mere coincidences or something more sinister.

Sabrina [37:04]: "Damn."

While some dismiss the curse as media hype, others find the pattern unsettling, especially considering the prominent roles of the victims in Otzi's study.

6. Listener Story: The Haunted Vanderbilt Museum Mummy

Towards the episode's end, a listener named Kaz shares a personal ghostly encounter at the Vanderbilt Museum. Sabrina narrates Kaz's experience of witnessing a mummy seemingly come to life, reinforcing the episode's themes of ancient mysteries and supernatural occurrences.

Sabrina [44:46]: "My final spooky story is the one you've been anticipating, the Mummy. Here's what happened..."

Kaz's tale of the mummy interacting with staff members adds a contemporary ghost story to the historical narrative, blending the ancient with the modern in true "Two Girls One Ghost" fashion.

7. Conclusion

Corinne and Sabrina wrap up the episode by reflecting on the fascinating yet ominous legacy of Otzi the Iceman. They ponder the intersection of archaeology, forensics, and the supernatural, leaving listeners to consider the mysteries that still lie beneath the surface of our history.

Corinne [42:34]: "All we know is that she's in a glass cage and there's no way that door could have opened on its own. So maybe she just needs to be freed to watch the theater."

The episode seamlessly intertwines historical analysis with ghostly lore, making it a captivating listen for enthusiasts of both archaeology and the paranormal.

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For more tales of the supernatural and mysterious historical events, tune into future episodes of "Two Girls One Ghost."

Transcript

[Sabrina]

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[Corinne]

So do like I did and have.

[Sabrina]

One of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to [e-mail] Switch upfront payment of 45 per 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month Required intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees, extra fee, full terms. Mintmobile.com Very spooky.

[Corinne]

Hello.

[Sabrina]

Hey.

[Corinne]

Welcome to Two Girls, One Ghost.

[Sabrina]

Two Girls, One Ghost. And we are your ghostesses. That is Corinne.

[Corinne]

Hello.

[Sabrina]

And I'm Sabrina and I'm in Mexico.

[Corinne]

Sabrina took recording on the road. So I was like, you know what? I want a change of scenery. Let's pretend I'm somewhere different. So I'm in my bedroom.

[Sabrina]

I will say I miss our studio. This doesn't feel studio vibes.

[Corinne]

No, it doesn't. I'm like, where do I look? I have a very quick ghost story for everyone. I did tell this on Campfire Stories, which we do on Patreon. It's a ghost story that's kind of open ended but at the same time maybe concluded. I don't know. So basically Sabrina and I have been having a lot of activity in our podcast studio, specifically on the bookshelf. There's like been a lot of odd noises and we haven't quite figured out what is going on.

[Sabrina]

Right.

[Corinne]

The other day, my child, my baby Noah, he wanted to go into the office because he likes to play with Sven and he was like sitting in the middle of the room touching the iPad, having a great time. I was sitting literally right next to him. All of a sudden he looks up at the bookshelf and freaks out. Like I've never seen him this scared. He was hysterical, like bawling his eyes out. This was something I've never seen before, haven't seen since. It was true terror and it took him a really long time to calm down, because I swooped him up and took him out of the room. But he was making eye contact right behind where Sabrina's chair is at the bookshelf there. And my mom was with me at the time. And Noah was almost hyperventilating. It took him a really long time for his breathing to calm down. And everything went.

[Sabrina]

And you've never seen him that scared.

[Corinne]

I've never seen him that scared. And my mom was like, oh, my God, there's something in the office we need to cleanse. And I was like, okay, we can do it tomorrow. We can do it midday. We can open up the windows and, like, let all the stuff out of the house.

[Sabrina]

Too bad Juju. Go away.

[Corinne]

Yeah. So then I go to bed that night, and I close my eyes, and immediately I hear a man's voice go right next to me. Brian was downstairs, so I was the only one in my bedroom. And I opened my eyes because I was like, oh, my God, did I already fall asleep? And I'm having this weird dream. I look at my phone. It hadn't even been a minute. Like, I literally closed my eyes, and someone immediately went right next to me. So I just kind of, like, stared at the empty space, like, in an intimidating way, like, this isn't gonna affect how I'm gonna sleep. You're not affecting me at all. Like, you're your own thing right now, separate from me. And then my mom said that the light in her room dimmed all the way down and all the way back up. And it's on one of those, like, dimmer switches. And so then the next day came, and we didn't cleanse. Instead, I decided to leave it at a light threat. I didn't even go in the office. I stood at the threshold of the doorway, and I said, if you scared the baby again, you're on borrowed time. And that was it. I haven't experienced another thing. Noah's been fine. He's been in there every day.

[Sabrina]

Well, I really hope that works. And that's a note to everyone. Set intentions and make sure you. If you are experiencing anything haunting like this, you can try the stern talking to gentle parenting to spirits.

[Corinne]

Well. Cause also, I was thinking, like, what if there's someone in here that didn't intend to be scary? They just popped up, and it was a startling thing, and maybe they looked a certain way, and it was really scary to Noah.

[Sabrina]

It reminds me of that story we read. It was a woman from New Jersey who gave cookies to Brian's mom, and her daughter saw like this like really creepy entity, but it was like a firefighter who had died in a fire and so he looked so scary, but he was actually a really good spirit.

[Corinne]

Yeah. So we don't know if this is just a friendly ghost that accidentally did a little spooking, which is why I gave them an option like I didn't say get out, I just said here's the boundary.

[Sabrina]

It's a continuous ghost story. We'll see and we'll update all of you what happens.

[Corinne]

Yes, we will. But for the episode today, it's not really a ghost story, but it is something weird and mysterious and I'm excited.

[Sabrina]

I'm also very excited for my listener story for this.

[Corinne]

Ooh. Okay, now I am too. I don't even know. Well, I know generally probably what it's about. But everyone get cozy because we're going to put ourselves in someone's shoes, where we're going to hear about someone's treacherous journey. Writer Corinne Coming in the cold sears Otzi's lungs, but he forces himself forward. Each step a battle, each breath a ragged reminder that he cannot stop. Otzi hadn't meant to be here, but the mountains are now his only escape. The frozen air amplifies every sound. His breath sharp and uneven. The crunch of the snow beneath his feet, every step betraying him, echoing into the silence of the frozen landscape, revealing his path to those who hunt him. Blood drips from his hands, his own or someone else's. His limbs scream in protest, but he pushes onward, higher, into the snow laden peaks. If he can just reach the ridge, if he can just disappear into the endless white. But his body then falters. His legs buckle. He stumbles forward, fingers clawing at the ice, desperate to keep going. And then, darkness. A sudden shadow against the glinting snow beneath him. The shadow looms over him and Otzi turns, eyes squinting against the glare of the sun, reflecting off something cold, something sharp, metal. A blade. There's no time to react. He closes his eyes, surrendering to the mountain, to the ice that will then cradle him in its frozen embrace for the next 5,300 years. This is the story of Otzi the Iceman, the mummy. Lost to time, only to be found deep within the Alps very recently. Which was a discovery with a chilling mystery. And his unearthing came at a cost. Or a curse. They say this is like finding wooly.

[Sabrina]

Mammoths in like sheets of ice.

[Corinne]

Yes, except now it's a mummy. And he comes to the curse. The mammoths aren't cursing us.

[Sabrina]

Oh my Gosh.

[Corinne]

But Otzi is.

[Sabrina]

Oh, wow.

[Corinne]

And I hope I'm saying his name right because I did watch a lot of videos of Italians saying his name. I know it's not Utzine, it's not Otzi, It's Otzi.

[Sabrina]

Otzi.

[Corinne]

So this is the curse of the Iceman. September 19, 1991. A pair of German hikers. It was a couple, Helmut and Erika Simon. They were trekking through the Otztal Alps, which is how Otzi got his name. And they were right along the Austrian Italian border. And the summer that they were hiking had been unusually warm. So there was a lot of glacier ice that was melting and, you know, exposing more of the earth than usual. And this was the perfect setting to unearth a over 5000 year old mummy.

[Sabrina]

Do they just stumble upon it?

[Corinne]

So Helmut and Erika. Helmut, sorry, so many names. I'm going to butcher. Here they are making their way through the rugged terrain. They are 10,530ft or 3,210 meters above sea level when something catches their eye. There is this dark, withered form protruding from the ice and it's barely distinguishable against the rocks. And so they're like, is this some sort of like rock formation? Is this some sort of debris that's kind of unearthing? And so they approach it because they're curious. It does look different against the landscape that's here. And as they approach, they are stunned to find a human being. This human is withered, twisted, lifeless. Their skin is this like leathery brown. They appear to be in a crawling position, as if they just perished while attempting to crawl to safety. And so they are thinking, okay, this person. There's family members out here from maybe a few decades ago looking for this person who they think is a mountaineer that perished at some point in more recent past while hiking. So that is their thought. They think that they're about to solve a missing person's case.

[Sabrina]

Is this the picture of when they found it?

[Corinne]

Yes. So if you're watching on YouTube, there's going to be some. I don't know if we call mummy photos graphic or not, but it is kind of graphic because it's a twisted, leathery human body. Like dead. Yeah.

[Sabrina]

So there's photos of a mummy in the traditional sense. It's almost like mummified in the sense that it was preserved by the cold.

[Corinne]

Exactly. It's kind of like a bog body. Almost like it's not what you're. Although it kind of is. Like if you think about all of the tombs that they open like the Egyptian tombs and stuff. It does look similar, but if you're thinking mummy in the sense of like toilet paper wrapped around them, it's not looking like that.

[Sabrina]

But they like specifically wrap their bodies in like and have a procedure of death for mummified bodies where.

[Corinne]

That's true. And they'll do painting.

[Sabrina]

Skin has not decayed.

[Corinne]

No, this is like a. You see the corpse, you see all of Otzi.

[Sabrina]

Jeez.

[Corinne]

So they assume that this is a lost mountaineer. And so they contact authorities. Authorities come up and along with them, some archaeologists. I don't know who came first or if they came together, but all parties arrive and the truth was far more astonishing. This was not someone who a few decades ago, lost their lives to the cold weather when trying to trek up the Alps. This was a very well preserved corpse of a man who died over 5,000 years ago.

[Sabrina]

That's crazy.

[Corinne]

Nicknamed Otzi after the valley that he was found, the Iceman quickly became one of the most significant archaeological finds of all time. His body, his clothing, his tools, all of this was found right here with him. And this offered an unprecedented glimpse into the Copper Age. So he lived sometimes between.

[Sabrina]

You want to be an archaeologist?

[Corinne]

Yes, I guess it's like, I want to be an archaeologist if I got to control where I was an archaeologist. Because also when I think of archeology, I think of all of the photos of people that are like in the Middle east and like really hot desert landscapes and they're like sweating and sand is blowing on them and they're like going through the dinosaur bones and I don't think I would enjoy that too.

[Sabrina]

See, I would want to do any of it. I want to find like old pottery, I want to find dinosaur bones.

[Corinne]

Like, I want to find dinosaurs.

[Sabrina]

I want to be an archaeologist.

[Corinne]

I want to find a hidden city. I want to find a city beneath a city.

[Sabrina]

Find Atlantis.

[Corinne]

Yeah, I want to find Atlantis, but I also don't like being in deep water. I don't like being underneath the water more than two feet. So Atlantis needs to rise up and just find me.

[Sabrina]

You're never going to be an archaeologist.

[Corinne]

No, I'm not. I like where I live. I'll be an archaeologist in the North Shore of Massachusetts. Okay. But these people are excited because this is a very interesting find. So this body, they believe lived sometime between year 3350 and 3105 BC.

[Sabrina]

I like, can't stop looking at these photos.

[Corinne]

I know they're wild. If you're on YouTube or we'll also post on Instagram. But yeah, the photos are crazy. And it's so well documented too, because there was so much around him that was found. And so they have photos of the tools, photos of all these different things. I didn't put it include this, but you can find like photos of basically their autopsy where they're pulling back his stomach and looking at the contents inside of his stomach. It's pretty gruesome.

[Sabrina]

That's wild.

[Corinne]

Yeah. Okay, so Otzi lived back in the 3000 BCs and he stood about 5 foot 3. He was thought to be 45 years old, which was really good, like long age for that time. And he was estimated to be about 110 pounds when he was alive. Though his remains now are like 20 something pounds.

[Sabrina]

Oh my gosh, what a little guy.

[Corinne]

Also, like, when you look at the photos of the archaeologists above him, he looks so small. I'm like, were people's skulls significantly smaller back then? Like, I feel like he just looks. He almost looks like a child.

[Sabrina]

Interesting.

[Corinne]

Like if I were to die and wither away, my head would be twice the size of old suit right now. They'd be like, oh my gosh, a Bratz doll came to life and died. That's me. Okay.

[Sabrina]

But I do. I mean, that's a question. Because even when you look at the Salem witch house in Salem, the beds are so much smaller, the ceilings are so much lower. Like people were smaller.

[Corinne]

Right. They had to be. I don't know. Or maybe we're just like used to different comforts or have different expectations.

[Sabrina]

Yeah, I don't know.

[Corinne]

I'm not really sure. But yeah, this was a small man, but apparently he lived a pretty decently long life for the time. And based on clumps of hair that remained around his body, they believed he had dark, medium long hair, though not much of it. He would wear his hair loose. So I don't know if that meant that at the specific time period that most likely there was no like braiding or sort of like styling of hair or if just based on how his hair was found, he was letting his locks fly. He had traces of arsenic in his hair too, which I was like, he was poisoned. But no, that's not what happened. Apparently this is what happens when someone is around, like the smelting process of so like extracting metal. Basically at this time, it was like a bit of a primitive version of it. Well, primitive ish, because during this time it was the middle of the Copper Age, and techniques for metal extraction and processing were being developed. So he was spending a lot of time around this process, which is super interesting.

[Sabrina]

Could that be why he was in the mountains?

[Corinne]

No, because they believe that he actually lived up there, that there was, like, a very small community that that was up there. It was very remote. But they didn't think he was necessarily, like, a solo up there. Like, he was. He was far from home, but not probably too far. They think he was probably on a hunting trip when he died.

[Sabrina]

Interesting.

[Corinne]

So his fingernails and his toenails had fallen off, and one fingernail and two toenails were retrieved around his body, which is, again, so crazy that this is still preserved. It was stated that Beau's lines were observed on his fingernails. So I think that's when, like, it goes across, when you have a lot of damage to your nail beds. Because they said that this indicates great physical stress, which makes sense for the time period. And it's also impressive because he had to endure a lot physically, but he still lived to the age of 45 until his murder. So it's like, if he wasn't murdered, how much longer would he live?

[Sabrina]

Also, like, living up in the mountains like that. Yeah. You would be put through physical challenges all the time.

[Corinne]

Yes. And it's also so crazy. Again, I didn't add this photo, but people can look it up because there's so many photos of him and recreations of him and, like, depictions of what he would have looked like at the time. But his outfit and stuff. I just, like, can't believe that people lived in that sort of climate.

[Sabrina]

Right.

[Corinne]

I mean, I guess, you know, they were hunting and they were wearing, like, cow and different, like, animal skins and stuff. But he had to wear all of these, like, different layers and then had this almost like, parka. It's just so interesting for me because I think when we look at pictures of people who live during this time period, it does seem so, like, caveman style to me.

[Sabrina]

They had to use, like, natural resources for warmth and, like, going back to us being used to, like, comforts. They did not have any of that.

[Corinne]

I don't know. I would just think, like, move somewhere warmer. Walk somewhere warmer.

[Sabrina]

If only it were that easy.

[Corinne]

I mean, some people did. That's. That's how I'm so Neanderthal. You know, my Neanderthal ancestors, they made their way around, eventually landing in Portugal, and then now you have me. Okay. They also did a lot of research into Otzi's DNA and tested a bunch, and they found Lyme disease in his DNA. So this is the oldest evidence of Lyme disease potential.

[Sabrina]

I'm not surprised by that either, because he is literally living like this in the wilderness. That doesn't surprise me. He was bit by a tick at one point and has Lyme disease.

[Corinne]

Right. But I guess, like, in my mind, I thought Lyme disease was something that was. That just, like, was developed in more recent past because of the prevalence of it, that I'm like, oh, when was Lyme disease? Like, has this just been a thing? Did it just, like, come up, like, 200 years ago or something? Or even 50 years ago? But no, it's been around for thousands and thousands of years.

[Sabrina]

That makes sense.

[Corinne]

Otzi was genetically predisposed to cardiovascular disease and was likely lactose intolerant.

[Sabrina]

Shut up.

[Corinne]

So crazy that we can be like, oh, my Gosh, look, this 3000 BC ice mummy couldn't eat cheese or he would shit himself. Thanks to DNA, he probably still ate the cheese. Oh, I'm sure he had no idea what was going on.

[Sabrina]

Had some bad ibs, actually, he had.

[Corinne]

A lot of ideas of what was going on, which we'll go into. So Otze was physically fit, but his joints showed significant wear, likely from a lifetime of being in this kind of, like, harsh terrain up in the Alps, traversing the mountainscape. And, you know, it's just a hard way of living. His arteries were heavily calcified, which was a sign of cardiovascular strain that might have been causing him discomfort. Deep within his gut, there were parasitic worms that likely left him with this, like, chronic stomachache. Also, maybe he was eating cheese.

[Sabrina]

It's also so interesting because when you look at these pictures of his body being discovered, like, it doesn't look like his organs still are in there. But the fact that you're like, how the hell.

[Corinne]

Yeah, no, I mean, they opened up his stomach like, they could see. It's so crazy. It's so crazy. Gallstones also hinted at some ongoing digestive troubles. So, poor Otzi. He always had a tummy ache. Basically, what was going on.

[Sabrina]

He needs a sweatshirt that says, my stomach hurts, but I'm being really brave about it.

[Corinne]

But I'm being really brave about it. Yeah. If only we could have given Otzi some Pepcid back then, or lactate and.

[Sabrina]

Gas X Pepto Bismol, which I had yesterday because I got the Mexico illness.

[Corinne]

That sucks. I'm sorry, Sabrina, you and Otzi would have a lot to talk about. His teeth were worn down to a very severe degree, so he had a lot of decay. And this is just like Another reminder of kind of like the diet and whatnot that they had to consume and how hard it was.

[Sabrina]

A lot of dental care.

[Corinne]

Yes. And on his left little toe there were remnants of an old frostbite injury, which makes sense because he was living in this up in the Alps. Like it's freezing up there a lot of the year.

[Sabrina]

Imagine laying down in your dream bedding. So soft the ghosts leave you alone.

[Corinne]

Yes.

[Sabrina]

Well, we're going to introduce you to Buffy. The most remarkable soft, gentle on the skin and perspiration limiting bed linen we have ever had the pleasure to enjoy. We've looked into it and Buffy may be the most awarded bedding brand there is. They have dozens of awards on each product, from Good Housekeeping to Architectural Digest to Consumer Reports and beyond. They just won House Beautiful's Editor's Choice for luxury sheets. And they won Corinne and Sabrina's choice for Ghost Free sheets.

[Corinne]

And also, I just feel like my body, my skin is so hypersensitive to different fabrics and different feels. And this is just unmatched smoothness.

[Sabrina]

I also love that Buffy is committed to always being chemical free. So they avoid the petroleum and harmful chemicals in favor of sustainable non toxic products that are as kind to the earth as they are to your skin.

[Corinne]

I ordered from the Breeze collection.

[Sabrina]

Ooh.

[Corinne]

Which is the eucalyptus collection. With a continuous commitment to quality, every Buffy item comes with a complimentary three year warranty. Most brands stop at one. While Buffy protects you against rips, stains or defects for three full years, no questions asked. Get 20% off your first Buffy order using code TGOG@BUFFYCO. That's 20% off when you use Code TGOG at Buffy Co. Buffy Code tgog. She's made up her mind to live.

[Sabrina]

Pretty smart. Learn to budget responsibly right from the start. She spends a little less and puts more into savings. Keeps the blood pressure low and credit score raises. She's cutting debt right out of her life. She tracks her cash flow on her spreadsheet at night. Boring money moves make kind of lame songs. But they sound pretty sweet to your wallet. BNC bank. Brilliantly boring since 1865.

[Corinne]

They also found on Otzi's body 61 tattoos, which is so cool. So there were these simple lines and crosses etched into his ancient leathery skin. And you can see on YouTube some pictures of these.

[Sabrina]

These are so cool, right?

[Corinne]

Two of them are small cross shaped markings and they were found on his right knee and his left heel. And unlike modern tattoos which are made with needles, his were Created with making, like, fine incisions with a bone needle or a flint blade. And the cuts were then rubbed with pulverized charcoal. So you'd, like, create a wound and then rub charcoal or soot over it until it would, like, absorb in. And basically when the skin would reheal, it would lock in the debris.

[Sabrina]

That sounds so painful.

[Corinne]

Totally. All but one of his tattoos were composed of soot, but one of them, the lone exception, was found on his right leg, and it contained traces of this different ash, which is interesting. And the anomaly led scientists to speculate that maybe this was created at a different time, or, like, maybe he had, like, traveled and somehow got the tattoo somewhere else and there was, like, a different practice or that this was a ritualistic tattoo, that there was, like, some unique ritual that they did things a little different and that that tattoo. Basically the answer is they don't know. But there's one tattoo that's different. They're like, oh, my God, why?

[Sabrina]

Well, it's also just so fascinating with all of this, like, even the frostbite on one of his toes, it's like, how do they differentiate what is something that he experienced right before his death, like, versus something that was from the past? Scientifically, that stuff is so cool.

[Corinne]

Archaeology is super cool. But I guess I'm curious about the crossover of, like, forensic, like, set science and archaeology. Do archaeologists have some of that knowledge or is, like, a forensics person brought in? I don't know.

[Sabrina]

I feel like they probably bring in a forensics person, but there's probably a basic knowledge.

[Corinne]

Yeah, because they had to do the DNA and everything.

[Sabrina]

And if you've done enough schooling to become an archaeologist, like, I believe that you've probably been educated to some extent in forensics.

[Corinne]

Very, very interesting.

[Sabrina]

In high school, there was a science forensics class, and I still to this day regret not taking it.

[Corinne]

Oh, my gosh. Yeah, you should have. Forensic psychology was my favorite class I ever took in college. Despite extensive research, the purpose of these tattoos remain a mystery, but they were placed in certain parts of his body that would have been covered by clothing. So it kind of ruled out the idea that this was for some sort of, like, social status or as decoration or whatever. And so this led to a theory that maybe these tattoos served the medical purpose. So basically, like, was he a medicine man? Or, like, were there some sort of, like, medicine practices where almost like acupuncture, where they, like, would put these markings on certain parts of a body. And he also lived a very long life for the time and had a lot of ailments, so it would make sense that he would have so many all around his body for like, whatever seemed to be hurting. Many of the tattoos align with key acupuncture points still used today. In fact, 80% of them correspond to locations used to treat rheumatic ailments, a condition that Otzi likely suffered from. And also X ray analysis of his remains revealed significant arthritis in his lower back, his hip joints, his knees and ankles. And these were in the exact same places that tattoos were applied. Oh, they think either, you know, like, could this be pain management? Could this be be a, like, early form of acupuncture? Like, what was this?

[Sabrina]

Doesn't that make you want to do acupuncture for yourself? Because it's like this has been around for so long and has like roots back to ancient practice that like, right, I'm like, there's gotta be something to it.

[Corinne]

Well, and also it's just like one of those things too where it's like you think of acupuncture so much when it comes to eastern medicine. But like, here we are in Italy and there was some, I mean, there's a theory, we don't know that that's what they were using it for, but like, there's a theory that this was some version of that. So it's also really interesting that just like humans in general, even being separated by miles and miles and miles never meeting each other, still will have these common experiences generally in the same time period, or that we'll just discover the same things no matter what. Like without the exposure. Like, that's crazy to me. And that's some sort of like universal consciousness that everyone suddenly being like, what if we do this to try to help with pain? Like, never in my mind would I be like, let me stab myself to try to make my pain better. But yeah, it works. Also, the tattoo's deep pigmentation suggests that they were reapplied multiple times. And this also like just reinforced the idea that this was an ongoing treatment, not just like a one time tattoo or like a single ritual, that these were revisited areas. So again, like going back to the acupuncture, it would make sense. Once a month, you know, he, Otzi's knee gets redone or whatever. Some of them that were along his lumbar spine, it would have been impossible for him to reach and be able to do it to himself, meaning another person did perform that procedure. So again, this is like, he might have not done any of them. Like, this could have been part of A healing process. And even more intriguing was researchers have identified tattoos along his back and right leg, positioned over meridian points associated with the gallbladder, the spleen, the liver, and the stomach, which are key areas in modern acupuncture that are targeted to treat abdominal disorders. And we already know he had a perpetual stomach ache.

[Sabrina]

Okay, well, see, this is so interesting, because if his community lived up in the mountains like this, in the Alps, is it possible to find the bodies of others? And since it is so cold, would they be preserved in the same way? And you could see, like, right, I would want to, like, go find these bodies everywhere.

[Corinne]

That is one of the things. It's kind of like bog bodies, where it's like, was it the perfect storm in this exact area which. Where he was and where he passed? They think at the time, there wasn't much snow or ice, and, like, he was somewhat protected from the wind. And it was just like, it seemed like exactly where he perished was the perfect spot for him to be preserved and then eventually, like, encapsulated. But when you think of Everest, all the bodies that are still up there, like, who's to say that there aren't a ton of them up there? So despite all of these very compelling findings, they don't really know what the tattoos were used for. And there's also, from what they have available to them outside of Otzi, there's no evidence of tattooing in the Alpine region from this time period. So they're like, was he just an anomaly? Was he some sort of, like, medicine practitioner, some sort of shaman who was testing things on himself? Or is this just, like, a common thing and somehow they just never discovered it? This is why it's so significant as an archeological find, because not only does it tell you a lot about this time period, but it also tells you that you don't know much about this time period. Like, it leaves so many questions, clearly.

[Sabrina]

Right. Because this is probably the most preserved body they've found from that time period. So it does tell you a lot more.

[Corinne]

Also, they found on his body, not only were there all of these physical ailments and injuries and tattoos, but they found a fresh well, fresh at the time of his demise. Deep wound on his right hand. It was a gash that had only been a few days old at the time that he died. So people wondered if this was a desperate struggle that he was a part of, if there was this last attempt to fend off an attacker, and then he was fleeing in the mountains, trying to escape someone who was trying to kill him. But whatever the cause was, the injury likely hampered him, leaving him vulnerable in his final moments.

[Sabrina]

Well, I'm also curious if he was out hunting. Like, did he accidentally hurt himself while he was trying to, like, okay, well, kill an animal or something?

[Corinne]

He died by arrow. Like someone shot him with an arrow.

[Sabrina]

Oh, someone killed him.

[Corinne]

But yes, he was murdered. This is a murder mystery.

[Sabrina]

Oh, shit.

[Corinne]

There's a theory by one of the researchers who worked on Otzi's body. There's been so many different theories. Like some people were like, oh my God, was he being hunted and escaped? Or like trying to escape people that were after him. Other people were like, was he a mass murderer? Like, did he kill a bunch of people or kill someone and then try to like, flee into the mountains and then was hunted down? And then there is one theory that he was with someone else. Like he was hunting with a companion and there was some sort of like, territorial dispute or like argument when they got in contact, I guess with like two other hunters or like another group of people. And that this resulted in Otji being like, killed by arrow. His equipment was preserved around his corpse too. And this was really interesting because this was the first time that archaeologists were able to see like, what a typical thing to have on hand during the day was because all of the burial sites did not include these items. There were different like rituals and practices. And what you would bury a person with was not what they would ordinarily carry. That would be like, you know, like when we get put in a casket, we're not given cell phone and are like favorite book and like a satchel of tea to like indicate what we were doing during the day.

[Sabrina]

I like that. Cell phone is the first thing you said.

[Corinne]

Well, because everyone has one, right? It's like that's like an everyday tool that we use, right? But like, we're not buried with our cell phones. So this was really, really monumental. He died with a bead of rawhide strings, two dried out mushrooms on leather straps, finely stitched clothing made from animal skins, straw lined leather shoes, an impermeable cloak made of woven grass, a bearskin cap, a pouch with dried deer meat and prine. So like, basically he had his snacks, satchel of snacks with him. A finely worked birch bark pouch, a wooden bow, a leather quiver with a number of arrows. And some of them were unfinished. So it was like he was making arrows on the go. A flint bladed knife and a wood handled copper bladed axe. And Otzu was also wearing leather and fur garments from domesticated Animals. So these were goats and sheep and cow. And also ancestrally and DNA wise and like location wise, it was believed that Otzi was from kind of like a farming community too, which is interesting because he was high up in the Alps. Like I said, he died by arrow. And this revelation didn't come until 2001 when a team of scientists conducted an X ray scan of Otzi's remains and they found an arrowhead lodged deep in his left shoulder. And the analysis showed that the wound in his hand was probably from a fight shortly before this arrow wound, which resulted in his death. And he also had a lot of bruises and head trauma, suggesting a violent end, like a, like a full out brawl. Like he was beat to death and then killed with an arrow, basically.

[Sabrina]

And then basically left there.

[Corinne]

Yes. Yeah. So this is, I mean there's theories, but like this also is sort of a 5300 year old murder mystery.

[Sabrina]

Right. I mean, we don't even know his actual name, so let alone who murdered him.

[Corinne]

Right. So who killed him and why? That's a question that still remains. But one of the things that they looked at for clues was the contents of Otzi's stomach. Like what was he doing? How long was he out there for? And it was just so incredible because the stomach contents were preserved and they could study them. And there were traces of ibex meat and eichorn wheat indicated he had eaten a hearty meal shortly before. So this is, I think, another thing that added to the theory that like he was out on a hunting trip because he was, it wasn't like he was on the run for a while. Like he, he like prepared to be out for a bit.

[Sabrina]

Yeah.

[Corinne]

Some believe that he was fleeing from attackers and that he paused to nourish himself with this hearty meal. But I don't know how accessible that was. But another thing that was so interesting and I didn't write this down, so I might butcher some of the details, but there was also a lot of evidence in his stomach contents of different, like plants and whatnot. That again, just like the tattoos go back to herbal medicine and sort of like the things that it can do to help treat you.

[Sabrina]

So he ate things to help with his stomach aches?

[Corinne]

Literally. Yeah, There were like all these things that like, wouldn't necessarily be for nourishment in the way that we would think of like filling his tank to give him energy, but like rather kind of like nutrients and vitamins and different things to like treat. Yeah. His ailments. So it is so. Oh, God, why are so many things lost to time?

[Sabrina]

I'm pissed, but they're not. It's just that we've stopped using them the same way.

[Corinne]

Adding to the mystery, the murder mystery. Traces of human blood were found on his clothing and his weapons. Four different individuals. Oh, so this is why it's like, was there a full out brawl? Was he attacking someone or like a group of people? And then like basically how did so much blood, so many different people's blood get on him? And it makes sense that it would be like some sort of brawl and then he was killed.

[Sabrina]

It sounds like he put up a fight trying to survive, but like he was outnumbered.

[Corinne]

Yeah. So basically there's this whole mystery. And the idea of a curse began to rise with the tragic fate of those connected with Otzi's discovery.

[Sabrina]

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[Corinne]

University, you can learn at your own pace with our Flexpath learning format. Take one or two courses at a time and complete as many as you can in a 12 week billing session. With Flexpath, you can even finish the bachelor's degree you started in 22 months for $20,000. A different future is closer than you think with Capella University. Learn [e-mail]. fastest 25% of students. Cost varies by pace. Transfer credits and other factors. Fees apply. So the curse first struck in 1992. Rainer Henn, the forensic pathologist who'd handled Otzi's remains with his bare hands during transport, was the very first victim. Less than a year after his examination of the mummy, hen was killed in a sudden car accident while en route to a conference to discuss.

[Sabrina]

This is like the amethyst.

[Corinne]

Yes. Or the Hope diamond.

[Sabrina]

Or the stolen amethyst.

[Corinne]

The stolen amethyst. And there's so many curses like last year out there. Yeah, and then Kurt Fritz was next. He was an experienced mountaineer and he had led scientists to the excavation site when they first discovered Otzi. And then in 1993, Fritz was caught in an avalanche and killed. But strangely, the avalanche only hit him out of all the Climbers, So it like missed everybody, but took him and he perished.

[Sabrina]

Damn.

[Corinne]

Some say his final words before the snow engulfed him were about feeling a sudden chill, this unnatural cold, even amongst the setting that they were already in, which is very strange.

[Sabrina]

Death was near him.

[Corinne]

Yeah. Next was Helmut Simon. And this man first discovered Otzi with his wife when they thought it was just a, like lost mountaineer.

[Sabrina]

That feels so unfair.

[Corinne]

Right?

[Sabrina]

They stumbled upon him and it's so.

[Corinne]

Unfair because like, what they were suspicious of with Otzi's death is basically what happened to him. So in 2004 he went missing while he was hiking in the very same mountains that he found the Iceman. His body was discovered eight days later, buried in snow. And to add to the eerie details, just hours after Simon's funeral, the head of the search team that had discovered Helmut Simon's body, Dieter Warnecki, died of a sudden heart attack. Just like this weird trickle effect.

[Sabrina]

Was his wife okay?

[Corinne]

I think so. There was nothing about his wife.

[Sabrina]

Interesting. So it's like all men that are dying.

[Corinne]

Yeah. It's another weird thing too, because it's like it feels like there's a curse because there's so much or like so many deaths, but at the same time, Otzi is such a huge discovery that there is a lot that's like, okay, well, out of the hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people that have sure been exposed to him, like eight people die. Like, is it a curse or is that just normal?

[Sabrina]

And also a lot of these people do spend their lives like in the wilderness doing riskier things.

[Corinne]

Right.

[Sabrina]

Their chances of death are higher.

[Corinne]

That's true. Then Australian journalist Rainer Holtzel, who had filmed Otzi's removal from the mountain, died of a brain tumor not long after finishing the film about OT. And then in 2005, shortly after his death, the Independent reported that very recently, like before his death, he was asked about the curse and he said, quote, I think it's a load of rubbish. It's all media hype. The next thing you'll be saying is, I will be next. And then he died.

[Sabrina]

And then he literally died.

[Corinne]

The seventh person to die was Tom Loy, the molecular archaeologist who was diagnosed with a blood related condition shortly after becoming involved with studying the Iceman Otzi. And he was the one that discovered the human blood on Otzi's clothing and weapons. Which is interesting that he then got like a blood condition when he discovered the blood related Stefan Otzi. His work is one that debunked some of the theories that Otzi had died alone in the mountains. Because it did seem, based on how much blood was on everything, that he was in this sort of fight. And there's a theory that Otzi had a hunting companion with him and that he basically died like, next to his hunting companion, but that his hunting companion was alive and obviously, like, escaped. Tom passed away 12 years later in his home. So it's like, was he part of the curse? Was he not?

[Sabrina]

And also, like, we all are going to die and unfortunately a lot of people don't get to die like this. Peaceful at home, old age, death. Like, people die from other things all the time.

[Corinne]

Right.

[Sabrina]

And I think we like to look for patterns. But you're right, Corinne. Like, if there's hundreds of people involved with this and only like 12 died, seemingly in weird ways, like, that feels pretty normal.

[Corinne]

Yeah, it does. I think the reason that it came up as like, a curse was because the people who had, like, significant roles in Otzi all died of, like, weird. Not all, but like, many of them had sudden deaths. So it's not just like, oh, the intern on the research team or whatever. It was the person who discovered the blood, the person who was taking the photos, the person who, like, found the body. It was very significant roles in the extraction and examination of his body and like, the working theories about Otzu today. But again, yes, everybody dies.

[Sabrina]

Yeah.

[Corinne]

Some believe that the curse started when Otis body was removed from his icy resting place. Some people spoke about this, like, heaviness and feeling, like this oppressive energy around the site that he was found. Whether that was true of the time or if that was added detail later to add to the story of the curse, I'm not sure. But today there is a large stone pyramid placed at the discovery site of otzi. And in 2011, two Dutch artists, Alphons and Adri Kennis, used Otzi's CT images and forensic techniques and methods to reconstruct his body. And so if you're watching on YouTube, you can see what he might have looked like in the time that he was alive. Although I'll make one edit to this reconstruction more recently. They believe that he had significantly less hair on his head than this would indicate.

[Sabrina]

I was gonna say he seemed very hairy up there.

[Corinne]

Yeah, no, he was giving more like Cynthia from Rugrats. Like Angelica's doll. Instead of luscious locks, he looks like.

[Sabrina]

He could have been related to Willem Dafoe.

[Corinne]

You're so right.

[Sabrina]

Doesn't he?

[Corinne]

Yeah. That's hilarious. Okay, today you can actually see the Iceman Otzi is forever sleeping in a big old refrigerator he's stored in a specifically devised cold cell. It's chilled to the glacial temperature of -6.5 degrees Celsius, or 20.3 degrees Fahrenheit, with 99% humidity. And you can see him through a small window in the South Tyrol Museum of Archaeology and Bolzano Sajbon. And that's the curse of the iceman Otzi.

[Sabrina]

I mean, that's so fascinating. I don't really believe in the curse. Curses are hard because it's, like, it would be one thing if, like, the people who found him were, like, related to the people who killed him or something, you know? But what does Otzi have to gain from cursing people? The only thing I can think of is if his body released a toxin and coming into contact with it. But they would have found all of that in the forensics.

[Corinne]

Right? And everyone died in different ways. It was like a heart attack or just missing in the Alps or a blood disease. It was all just very unrelated ways to die. But no, I guess the only thing I could think of is if Otzi died in this really intense battle with these strange men who he's never encountered before, could there be some sort of, like, energy? Obviously, if someone from the Copper Age were to see someone from today, it would be a really scary person to encounter. Right. We look so different, we act so different, we have so many different tools. So I'm like, could his spirit be kind of confused and think that he's again in battle with the people that are touching him? I don't know.

[Sabrina]

I don't know. I think that's the coolest discovery, and I for sure would love to be an archaeologist.

[Corinne]

Yeah. So cool. I do wonder too, if you're an archaeologist, like, what's your access to things like that? Like, can anyone pitch to go study Otzi? Or like, right, do you have to get, like, is he the forbidden fruit of the archeology community that everyone wants a piece of? Ot, I don't know.

[Sabrina]

There's probably archaeologists who each have, like, their own passion. If you're an archeologist, email us. Let's talk. Take us on your next dig. I have a listener story, and this is the only listener story I can find in our inbox about mummies.

[Corinne]

Wow.

[Sabrina]

And I cannot wait for it. So, actually, so our listener, Kaz, if you remember, remember we did our New York show and there was someone, a listener outside, who, like, asked to take a picture with us?

[Corinne]

Yeah. That was when we were loading up my car. After the show.

[Sabrina]

Okay.

[Corinne]

Yes, exactly.

[Sabrina]

So in the email, it said there was, like, a tease of a story about a mummy. And I was like, you have to email this to us. And she did. She delivered. So we just got it into our inbox yesterday.

[Corinne]

That is really good timing. And also crazy that we asked for it two years ago and it just arrived.

[Sabrina]

No, I asked for it two days ago.

[Corinne]

Oh. Oh, okay.

[Sabrina]

Yeah.

[Corinne]

I was like, wait, that's also spooky, but okay, got it.

[Sabrina]

Okay, ghouls, you asked for it. First of all, I'm obsessed with you both and absolutely metaphorically pooped my pants when you asked for the story. It's a long one and probably not what you're expecting. So let's get into it. I used to work at a certain museum that I won't mention by name because it's my only job I ever got fired from, and they do not deserve my publicity. That being said, it was haunted. This museum was one of many mansions owned by a very famous family in America. All I'll say is that a couple of months ago, Corinne spoke on the podcast about visiting another mansion owned by the same family. I feel like we have clues we could figure this out. I live on Long Island, New York, so if that doesn't give it away, I don't know what else will.

[Corinne]

Is it the Vanderbilt?

[Sabrina]

She literally then says, it's the Vanderbilt. Vanderbilt Museum.

[Corinne]

Yeah.

[Sabrina]

The original owner was a collector of sorts. He had lots of weird shit that he collected on his many travels and brought them back to this beautiful mansion now museum. I started working there because I got involved with the summer Shakespeare Theater. I was the box office and house manager and eventually was hired to do admissions and retail for the museum year round. The museum isn't just a mansion. It's an entire property with the mansion being right in the middle. It includes other buildings and multiple different wings of the mansion, all dedicated to specific collections. There's also the grounds of this property that was pretty huge, and a celebration tent where they hosted weddings and other fancy events. There's a pool house area, which sits right at the water, and another larger building at the top of the hill by the road that holds all the weird taxidermied sea creatures.

[Corinne]

Huh. More size.

[Sabrina]

Pretty big property. Lots of spooky, dark corners.

[Corinne]

That's cool.

[Sabrina]

There's one building on the property, specifically the building that I spent most of my time in that is shaped like a big circle. Outside of this building is a garden that overlooks a big cliff that goes down straight to the Water. It's a beautiful view when you walk into this building. There's a theater of sorts in the center. So picture a large, enclosed round theater in the middle and a round lobby area just outside. And in the back were some offices and storage rooms. My office was back, and one time I had five Easter chocolates that I left on my desk. And I came back the next day to see only one. Nothing else had changed in the room. The door was locked behind me. So I guess the ghost ate four and left one for me. When you're inside this building, in the center of the lobby was the admissions desk. I sat here all the dang time from the spot. My view is somewhat skewed since, again, this building was round. I have experiences, and I know my coworkers did too, of hearing someone from the left side of the lobby and then seeing them walk out from the right side. And I know this might be tough to envision, but when you're in a round room, sound bounces around weird. And would constantly see and hear things around the corners that would leave us confused about where it came from. A co worker of mine, who we'll call Jay, used to work night shifts often. And when he would leave the building at night, he recalls walking up the hill towards the parking lot, turning around to see a man in a top hat looking over the ledge down to the water. For some reason, Jay kept walking and didn't think twice about it. But he laughed while telling me this. That is creepy. Just a very creepy man staring down to the water. A friend of mine, Nicole, used to work a lot of special events at the museum, and she would escort guests around the grounds. Once, she was sitting in the wing of the lobby when she heard someone whisper hi Nicole in her ear. She says they seemed pretty friendly, tbh. And wasn't scared, but she was completely alone at the time. Months later, I was working on the set of an Amazon Prime TV show that had rented the mansion for filming. I was lucky enough to be one of the few staff members that was permitted on the property that day. And while on set, I got to talk to a lot of cool people. And I spent a lot of that time running through the secret underground storage tunnels that ran under the mansion in order to stay out of the way. Those tunnels were creepy, especially when the lights were off, but I had gotten very familiar with them. And while filming, they became very convenient for running from one side of the mansion to the other without getting in the way. Unfortunately for you, but fortunately for me, nothing creepy ever happened. In those tunnels. But something did happen while filming. I found myself in a side room that wasn't being used at the time. And there were a few crew members in the room and the paramedic that was hired to be on set. We got to talking, and obviously the conversation led to the mansion being haunted. The paramedic scoffed jokingly and made it very clear that he did not believe in any of that stuff. Hours later, though, while standing in the courtyard, I saw this paramedic sprint towards me. He was looking for me just to tell me that he was alone in the wing and someone whispered hello in his ear. He, unlike Nicole, was freaked out.

[Corinne]

I feel like there's a lot of friendly ghosts in this, right?

[Sabrina]

But I also love that the paramedic was like, I do not believe in the ghosts. We're like, we're gonna make you believe.

[Corinne]

Hello.

[Sabrina]

My final spooky story is the one you've been anticipating, the Mummy. Here's what happened. One night during the summer, we had a Shakespeare performance. I was stage managing this particular production, which meant that I was placed in, you guessed it, the same wing where Nicole and the paramedic made a ghost friend. In this wing, there was a break room for the staff of the museum. And this is where I sat during the show. There was a large window that opened up right next to the stage, so I was able to see and hear the actors, but I was hidden from the audience. I had a clear view from where I sat of the hallway, bathroom, and the main and only entrance to that entire wing. I could clearly see at all times if any actors had entered that wing. And guess what particular creepy collector's item was in the room right next to me? Yeah, it was a mummy. Before the show had even started, the security staff at the museum had come down to the mansion to lock any doors to any rooms with collections. Having been an employee, I knew the security staff very well. And I distinctly remember talking to security guard Ed as we walked through the swing. And he locked the doors. He locked every door and pulled on the knob to make sure it was locked. And I know for a fact he locked the mummy door. Once the show started, I was alone in the break room and I heard a creak like a very old door was opening. I remember looking out into the hallway and seeing no one. But the main entrance door to that wing was still closed. The bathroom door was still open. No one was using it, and there was no one else anywhere near me. So I got up and I went out to the hallway. Sure enough, the door right next to me was wide open and the lights were on. I peeked into the room, saw the mummy, and I said, hey, girl. Pulled the door closed, and made sure it was locked. I always joked that the mummy really liked the theater and just wanted to be a part of it. Maybe she's the one whispering hello at everyone. All I know is that she's in a glass cage and there's no way that door could have opened on its own. So maybe she just needs to be freed to watch the theater. Thank you guys for creating a safe space for spooky weirdos. I love you so much and I'll probably cry if I actually hear this on the podcast. You two are the best. I hope we get to see each other on the other side and spend an attorney haunting earth together as friends. From Kaz.

[Corinne]

Oh my God, what a freaking cool place to work. One like all the tunnels too. Yeah. And just like, obviously this place is haunted. It makes so much sense.

[Sabrina]

Unfortunately, Kaz got fired, so we can't use Kaz to go explore.

[Corinne]

Okay. This is reminding me of Greg and Dana Newkirk's tour when they had their ventriloquist dummies just like out in the lobby. I feel like this mummy needs to be in a glass case that is on wheels so they can bring the mummy around. Like, perhaps she does want to watch some some shows. Perhaps she wants to be in the front. She wants to greet people. Maybe she wants to see some daylight, which I know doesn't really work well for mummies, but this mummy needs to be on the go.

[Sabrina]

Let's see if we can look up the mummy at the Vanderbilt Museum to see if we can see a picture.

[Corinne]

Which is also just so random that there's a mummy at the Vanderbilt Museum.

[Sabrina]

Oh, there is. The 3000 year old mummy.

[Corinne]

So weird. Makes sense that, like, I don't know how they acquired it, but if it was because the Vanderbilts bought it, that makes sense because they were just freaking acquiring all these oddities.

[Sabrina]

It says she was acquired by Mr. Vanderbilt in Egypt in 1931. He was visiting the E. Hot in and Sons antique shop in Cairo and purchased the mummy there.

[Corinne]

Which is so crazy that they were just selling mummies there and purchased the.

[Sabrina]

Mummy there along with the glass case that she's displayed in. Oh. Oh. This is actually not that expensive. It puts the modern day price in the range of about $20,000.

[Corinne]

Can you imagine if years in the future, someone just like digs up your body, puts you into a shop and sells you to like just go home in someone else's house for them to be like, whoa, look at this cool dead body. And you're like, what?

[Sabrina]

That is wild.

[Corinne]

Yeah.

[Sabrina]

Okay, a little bit more about her. We know that the mummy was a young woman in her 20s and fairly healthy too. Her death seems to be of natural causes, suggesting sudden illness or possibly childbirth. Her exact identity is hard to pin down, but given the state of her coffin, it's likely she was a lesser noble woman. We've dated her to the 21st Dynasty in ancient Egypt, which makes her over 3,000 years old today. That's so cool.

[Corinne]

Very cool. But I'm also stressed about this. I'm stressed that she was taken. I'm stressed that she was sold. I'm stressed that she's here in America. But I guess she seems okay with it. Maybe if she's just saying hi to everyone and eating chocolates, perhaps.

[Sabrina]

I mean, if I were dead, that would be a cool place for me to hang out.

[Corinne]

Yeah, I guess that's true. So strange.

[Sabrina]

Wow. We love mummies.

[Corinne]

And in this case, it's not really even a mummy. Otzi is just an iceman.

[Sabrina]

That's true. A preserved iceman.

[Corinne]

Yes.

[Sabrina]

Well, if you have any mummy stories or ghost stories generally, please email us at 2girls1ghost podcastmail.com we would love to read them and include them in a future episode. So email us.

[Corinne]

You can rate interview wherever you listen to podcasts, tell people about us. Join us on Patreon For Ad Free 1 week early content and additional bonus episodes and campfire stories where we bring you on stage with a group of like minded paranormal enthusiasts to tell ghost stories live. And you can also follow us on social media. Watch on YouTube if you want to see some of the photos that we discussed in the episode and shout out.

[Sabrina]

To our editor and producer Jamie Ryan. And thank you to all of you for listening to our podcast.

[Corinne]

We love you and we will see you on the other side.

[Sabrina]

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