Episode 343 - The Watseka Wonder (Mary Lurancy Vennum Possession)

Summary

Two Girls One Ghost – Episode 343: The Watseka Wonder (Mary Lurancy Vennum Possession)

Hosts: Corinne Vien & Sabrina Deana-Roga
Release Date: October 12, 2025
Main Theme: A deep dive into the bizarre and mysterious possession case of Mary Lurancy Vennum, aka the Watseka Wonder, and the unique story of her being possessed by the spirit of Mary Roff in 19th-century Illinois—plus a chilling listener story about parental possession.

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Episode Overview

Corinne and Sabrina celebrate October with a classic tale of spiritualism and possession, investigating the historical case of Mary Lurancy Vennum, a 13-year-old girl in the late 1800s allegedly possessed by the spirit of another girl, Mary Roff, for over three months. This “light-hearted” (by exorcism standards!) possession case leads to warm, weird, and unsettling reflections on grief, the supernatural, family, and the psychological explanations for haunting phenomena. The episode is also punctuated by interactive spookiness using a haunted doll (Elara) and a “ghost tube,” paranormal tangents, and concludes with a harrowing, listener-submitted modern possession story.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. October Vibes and Haunted Guests [03:33]

• Corinne and Sabrina settle in for October, donning homemade masks and inviting Sabrina's haunted doll, Elara, to join the episode.

• They discuss the importance of setting intentions and protecting themselves when discussing dark topics and involving haunted objects.

  "She will respect our boundaries. She doesn’t have to communicate…if she doesn’t want to.” – (Sabrina, 04:01)

• The ghost tube app starts interjecting with eerie phrases like “consciousness,” “inferior,” “watching you,” and “bring it,” adding to the spooky energy.

2. Pop Culture & Movie Chat: Exorcisms and the Paranormal [05:07]

• Reflecting on their psychic crushes and love for paranormal-themed characters (“I have no childhood crushes that weren’t related to the paranormal.” – Corinne, 06:13)
• Discussion on recent horror movies (The Conjuring, The Exorcist), and how horror content may or may not lead to actual hauntings:

  “There’s something about…maybe it was the way they were portraying the entities that felt too fake.” – (Sabrina, 07:29)

3. Introducing the Watseka Wonder Case [10:00]

Case Background – Setting the Scene

• 1870s Watseka, Illinois: two families, the spiritualist Roffs and the ordinary Venums, live on the same street.
• Both families have experienced the tragic decline (and institutionalization) of a daughter.

Mary Lurancy Vennum's Symptoms

• At age 13, Lurancy ("Rancy") starts experiencing seizures and trances, describes visions of deceased relatives, and sees “angels in heaven.”
• Two doctors and a Methodist minister fail to help, suggesting instead that Rancy be sent to an asylum.

  “Instead…they recommend a different line of treatment…Mary Lurancy needs to be sent to the asylum because…Mary Lurancy is insane.”—Corinne, 16:21

The Roff Family’s Intervention

• Asa Roff, having lost his own daughter Mary to a similar fate, pleads with the Venums not to send Rancy away.
• The Venums permit Dr. E. Winchester Stevens, a spiritualist physician, to examine Rancy.

4. The Possession: Fractured Identities and Mary Roff’s Return [21:10]

First Contact with ‘Spirits’:

• Rancy, in trances, begins embodying various personalities (an old German woman, a boy from Tennessee, and many more).
• Eventually, Stevens asks for a higher spirit, and Mary Roff presents herself.

  “The angel’s name was Mary. Mary Roff. No.” – Corinne, 26:37

Distinctive Behavioral Change

• Once Mary Roff takes over, Rancy’s demeanor becomes polite, affectionate, and vividly reminiscent of Mary when alive. She now recognizes the Roff family intimately.
• Mary begs to return “home” to the Roffs, shockingly recalling their home, neighbors, and details only the deceased Mary Roff would know.

  “There comes my Ma and my sister Nervy.” (Mary Roff, 30:52)

Living with the ‘New’ Family

• Rancy, possessed by Mary, lives with the Roffs for over three months (Feb–May 1878).

• She is able to recall people, personal nicknames, and family trips from decades past—facts Rancy/Vennum could not have known.

  “Mary in Ranci’s body recognized everyone that Mary Roff had known, neighbors, school friends, household visitors from the 1850s and the early 1860s, before Rancy had even been born.” – Corinne, 33:14

• Lurancy does not eat initially, claiming to get sustenance "from heaven."

• The arrangement is emotionally complicated for both families—grief for the Venums, a bittersweet reunion for the Roffs.

5. Ending the Possession [39:21]

• Mary announces how long she will remain before Rancy can return (“The angels will let me stay until sometime in May.” – Mary/Rancy, 32:40).

• When Mary finally leaves, Rancy is terrified and confused about where she is, seemingly with no memory of the preceding months.

  “Rancy stood before her, absolutely terrified, looking around her, confused…she begins to cry. She was so scared and she wanted to go home.” – Corinne, 39:45

• After this, Rancy fully recovers, never experiences the symptoms again, and lives a normal, spirit-free life.

6. Theories & Legacy [47:35]

Skeptical Explanations:

• Psychologists have argued for “hysterical impersonation” and psychological suggestion—pointing out the era’s spiritualist craze and possible influence on Lurancy’s symptoms.

• Some investigators, including William James (the “father of American psychology”), called it “perhaps as extreme a case of possession…as one can find.” (44:51)

• The Roff house, now known as the “Watseka Wonder House,” is a restored historic site and paranormal Airbnb.

“We can say what it looked like... A dead girl’s identity appeared... knowing names, rooms, details… Three months later, the teenage patient [was] inexplicably recovered.”—Corinne, 51:49

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Corinne on the story’s strange optimism:
  “Turns out it’s like maybe the most lighthearted possession case that exists.” (09:32)
• Sabrina on the bittersweet nature:
  “There’s temporary reunion…but at some point you’re going to lose them again.” (37:15)
• Mary (via Rancy) on departing:
  “‘I want to kiss you while I have lips and hug you while I have an arm to hug you with… For I am going to heaven before long, and then I can only be with you in spirit.’” (36:04)
• Summary of the supernatural impact:
  “She did not hear voices again… did not channel spirits again. She instead went on to live a completely normal, spirit-free life.” (43:29)

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Listener Story: “My Dad Was Possessed” by Ellie [56:08]

Summary & Highlights

• Ellie recounts chilling childhood events in Germany after her brother brings home a brooch from a possibly haunted forest cottage and her mother attempts a risky spell for financial help.

• Their home descends into chaos: shadowy voices, terrifying nightmares, her father develops psychosis (or possibly possession—speaking in unknown tongues, violent delusions, personality changes).

  “He would say over and over, ‘365 plus one mind.’…He would ask me why my eyes were black and he started having delusions of the walls turning to sand and scorpions crawling all over me or him or my mother.” – Ellie’s story, 61:04

• Police intervention, hospitalization, and recovery by 2012, which coincides uncannily with the supposed “end of the world.”

• Ellie muses on PTSD, spiritual influence, and coincidence:

  “Schizophrenia doesn’t have a cure. So I don’t really know if that’s what he had.” – [65:05]

• Both hosts agree this is one of the most authentically terrifying possession stories they’ve received.

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Paranormal and Podcast Community Chatter

• The hosts encourage listeners to set boundaries, as discussing or consuming content about the supernatural may invite uninvited energies (!).
• References to haunted locations, ongoing listener stories, and upcoming Patreon content and podcast updates.
• Sabrina points out how “the world of the spirit can be healing—or dangerous, depending on how it’s accessed.”

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:33 – Elara the haunted doll joins; October vibes
• 10:00 – The Watseka Wonder: Case intro & background
• 21:10 – Rancy’s trances, first contact with “Mary Roff”
• 27:34 – Mary asks to go “home”; lives with the Roffs
• 32:40 – Mary says when she’ll leave Rancy’s body
• 39:21 – Mary leaves; Rancy returns, frightened
• 43:29 – Rancy’s permanent recovery; aftermath of possession
• 44:51 – William James/psychiatric interpretations
• 47:35 – Spiritualism movement, skeptical analysis
• 56:08 – Listener story: “My Dad Was Possessed” (by Ellie)

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Final Thoughts

This episode is a classic TGoG blend: rich research, speculative banter, warmth, and moments of genuine fright. The Watseka Wonder case stands out for its strange optimism amid tragedy, inspiring both skepticism and wonder. The listener's tale grounds the episode in the modern world’s ongoing dance with the unexplained.

Quote to remember:

"We hope no one got haunted." – Sabrina, 67:32

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For Further Exploration

• [Book: The Watseka Wonder by Dr. E. Winchester Stevens] (Corinne’s recommendation)
• Stay at the Watseka Wonder House (now an Airbnb)
• Listener submissions and Patreon details available at 2 girls one ghost podcast mail.com

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“We will see you… on the other side.”

Transcript

[A]

It's Jonathan Van Ness from Getting Better. With Jonathan Van Ness, it's easy to feel hopeless, but we don't have to stay there. I'm all about finding places where we can turn that energy into hope and into action. One of those places is Americans United for Separation of Church and State. Americans United, or au is this quiet but mighty force working every day to preserve freedom without favor and equality without exception. I am so obsessed with that tagline. And let me tell you something, honey, that wall between church and state, Paper thin. It's got a leak, honey. It's one of the last safeguards protecting so many of our rights. So right now, from bodily autonomy to LGBTQ + rights to the future of public schools, to me, this is about creating a world where everyone gets to live as themselves as long as you're not harming anyone else. Now is not the time to curl up and hide. It's the time to link arms and stand together for a better future. Join Americans United for Separation of Church and State and their growing movement. Because church, state separation protects us all. Learn more and join [e-mail] better. Let's go. Americans United.

[B]

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[C]

Very spooky. Hello.

[D]

Hello.

[C]

Happy October from Two Girls, One Ghost.

[D]

Two Girls, One Ghost. And we are your ghostesses. That is someone from the 1920s. Get him.

[C]

Spooky. And that's Mothman.

[D]

Check out my chiseled abs.

[C]

So good.

[D]

We're basically. Basically. I'm literally breathing and talking with it.

[B]

Inferior.

[C]

What did it say?

[D]

Inferior.

[C]

Inferior.

[D]

Yeah, we are pretty inferior. Right now I'm talking through a face mask, so I keep sucking in the screen.

[C]

Oh, yeah. I will say I've never been so happy that these teeth are fake. That is on my mask because my mouth is right up on them and.

[D]

They are very scary. Real looking teeth.

[C]

Yeah. I found this posit mask on Etsy. It's made of seashells and burlap, but it just reminded me of the original costumes. Like back in the day, people would make their own costumes, usually out of paper mache masks, but like still burlap or extra cloth. People would make masks for Halloween. So I was like, it's so cool. I'm gonna pull back on, like, the original idea of a Halloween costume.

[D]

I love it. And we, without really planning it, both picked to do it's outside.

[C]

Masked.

[D]

Masked episode.

[C]

I'm so distracted, I can barely see through this burlap. But I'm so distracted by your eyes because they're. They're not just, like red, they're glowing and they're moving and you just feel like an animated character right now.

[D]

I have no idea what I look like right now.

[C]

Can you?

[D]

I can see you behind you. Who's behind you?

[C]

Who's behind you? We also have another special guest with us today. We do, and that is Sabrina's doll friend, Elara.

[D]

Alara. Alara. So it's October, which you know what that means. Spooky, scary possession stories. Although Corinne, you warned that this one actually isn't that terrifying, which is great.

[C]

Yeah. I'm shocked that it's not.

[D]

So I picked a really scary glistener story for us to read at the end. But we do encourage, since it is October and we are talking about exorcisms, possessions, darker topics, and we are inviting a spirit, a haunted doll to be a part of the episode. It's always encouraged to set intentions. And we also, because we are inviting Elara into the studio, we are setting intentions with her, just letting her know that she's safe. We are respecting her boundaries. She will respect ours. And she doesn't have to communicate with us if she doesn't want to. But should she like to? We've got ghost tube running and maybe she'll warn us if anything dark is coming in here or she'll just let us know that we're inferior.

[C]

Dun, dun, dun.

[D]

If you are curious about Elara's story, go check out our episode that came out on October 7th because we did an introduction.

[B]

Watching you.

[D]

You're watching us.

[C]

I always feel.

[D]

Feel like I do feel weirdly as if I'm being watched more now, I think because I can't really fully see my surroundings.

[C]

Well, I didn't feel like that, but now I'm going to be paranoid. I also have to scratch my nose, but it's going to look like I'm picking a booger. But it's like through the mouth hole. Ah, that felt good.

[D]

That did look like it felt good.

[C]

It's ragweed season.

[B]

Consciousness.

[D]

What does it say?

[C]

Consciousness. Are we all one consciousness?

[D]

What is consciousness? Are we actually the ones who are dead? Oh, speaking of being dead, kind of. I saw the new Conjuring movie Experiment. Ooh.

[C]

How was it?

[D]

Bless you, Blush, you.

[C]

I think I'm allergic to the mask.

[D]

I'm sorry.

[C]

That was.

[D]

There's something about watching you sneeze in a mask, that was the most amazing thing I've ever experienced. Also, why is it that, like, all of your costumes this year? I'm like, wow, you're really attractive.

[C]

Victorian possum. Sabrina.

[D]

Oh, my ears.

[C]

When is your next therapy appointment? Because I think you need to bring this up with your therapist.

[D]

I think I do, too. There's a lot of things wrong with me. But the Conjuring movie, actually, to your.

[C]

Point of, like, I think it's just, like, the attraction to, like, beasts and other things. Because the other day I was thinking about, like, my first crush and then who my second crush was and my third crush and, like, going through. And these were all, like, celebrity crushes. And I realized I have no childhood crushes that weren't related to the paranormal.

[D]

So it was like, who are they?

[C]

Casper the Little Vampire.

[D]

Oh, loved Little Vampire.

[C]

Right. I loved Luke from Halloween Town, both as a monster and as a normal human being, but mostly as a beast.

[A]

Hilarious.

[C]

That's his little monster self. Danny Phantom.

[D]

Like, just.

[C]

They're all. And now you're with Brian and Luck of the Irish. Like, I liked the leprechaun.

[B]

We like you.

[D]

Oh.

[C]

Oh. So you also have the same sort of crushes than I assume Elara or whoever's speaking here.

[D]

Maybe Elara feels the way I do. We like you.

[C]

Also, can we just recognize what different energy this is? This is compared to when we first recorded with all of the haunted items, the Conjuring movie.

[D]

I really enjoyed it. I feel like it was so much more about Ed and Lorraine Warren and their lives than it was this Merle family possession case.

[C]

Oh, but I liked that. Bums me out, though. Cause the Smurl possession case has so much.

[D]

Yes, but I think the Conjuring films have always been about the Warrens. And in this, they just, like, focused even more on it. And so I felt like there was not enough smurls. I also feel like I've become a little bit desensitized in terms of fear when it comes to scary movies. Because I wasn't spooked. I don't know. There's something about. Maybe it was the way they were portraying the entities that felt too fake.

[C]

I don't know. I haven't seen it. I don't know.

[D]

But, I mean, I enjoyed it. It was a great. As a horror movie. I enjoyed it. But yeah, definitely did not feature the Smurls enough. And I think our episodes on them are scarier.

[C]

Well. And people experienced a lot of hauntings. I do wonder if any of the conjuring movies, like, people leave and immediately experience anything when talking about that sort of thing.

[D]

Cause that's like you're opening yourself up.

[C]

Yeah. In like a mass produced way where when people listen to our episodes, you know, like, we're giving warnings, but when people go and see a movie about it or like, there's no warnings. There's no warning. It's like, oh, this is a horror movie. This is just for fun.

[D]

Success, success. Great success. Okay. And then I rewatched the Exorcist, which I'm like, did I. Have I ever really seen this in its entirety? Or have I just, like, been terrified by things and moments of it while other people are watching? Because I did not remember so much of it. And can you believe that in the original film that was released in theaters, the scene where she crawls backwards down the stairs was cut out.

[C]

What?

[D]

It wasn't until like the 2000s, when it was re released as an extended director's cut, that that scene was put.

[C]

Back in the most iconic part.

[D]

Right.

[C]

That makes me mad, basically, at the different companies that not distribute, but the whole production company or the buyer of the film.

[D]

I think the director chose to cut it out originally because, see, I never.

[C]

Would have guessed that. I would have thought that artistically he'd want it in. Especially during the director's cut. He's putting it back in.

[D]

He thought it looked too weird.

[C]

Oh, like it was. Takes you too out of the story.

[D]

Yeah. I'm like, that's what I remember from the movie. And I watched the original and I was like, wait, when does that happen? Is that from a different version? But no, it was not in the original version of the film.

[A]

Wow.

[D]

Yeah. That one's scary, though. Classic horror film.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

But.

[C]

All right, well, we're gonna get into horror today. Interestingly enough. Oops, Am I hitting my microphone with my keys?

[D]

You haven't been until just failed. Fail.

[C]

Yeah, I fail.

[D]

You fail.

[C]

All right, so I was actually kind of shocked because Sabrina alluded to this earlier, but I picked an exorcism case, which I was like, perfect. Perfect. This is gonna be so creepy and spooky. Turns out it's like maybe the most lighthearted possession case that maybe exists, which.

[D]

Feels like a oxymoron having.

[B]

Convent.

[C]

Convent.

[D]

Why do I keep thinking of saying Corinne? But yeah, it Feels like an oxymoron to have a light hearted possession slash exorcism.

[C]

It does. All right, so let us begin. On a quiet street in a modest Midwestern town along the Iroquois River, a house sits. From the exterior, it may look unassuming, peaceful even, but inside, the house still remembers the weight of a girl who, more than a century ago, came home to a family that had already buried her.

[D]

What?

[C]

This is the tale of Mary Loranci Venom. Her nickname was Ranci for short. And Mary Roff, the deceased daughter of a nearby family. This is a possession case, or maybe a performance so convincing that that even the sharpest minds and researchers of the era argued over what exactly was happening. And the story.

[B]

Have we met?

[C]

Have we met?

[D]

Well, if it is you, Elara, I know we look confusing. It is Corinne and Sabrina.

[C]

You live with Sabrina.

[D]

We just are wearing masks.

[C]

So the story begins in the late 1870s. Watusca is the kind of place where news travels very quickly and strangers don't really stay strangers for long. And in 1868, the Roff family built an Italianate home in this idyllic community. It had ornate brackets, tall windows, enough room to host some conversations for people that were also had some curiosities similar to the Roff family. So the Roff parents, Dorothy and Asa, or Asa, I might be mispronouncing this, I'm gonna say Asa for this Asa story. Asa. But Dorothy and Asa, they were actually spiritualists. And they were pretty prominent members of the spiritualist movement at this time, which already, when I first learned that, I was like, okay, well, is there some, like, something happening? Because they're making it happen for, like, the sake of spiritualism or something, but it actually does not go that direction. What we know already coming into the story is that the Roth family believe in the possibility of contact from the other side. Down the road lived another family, the Venoms. And their daughter, Mary Loranci was born on April 16, 1864, and was by all accounts a very ordinary child. Much of her childhood was very typical. But all of that changed when she turned 13 years old.

[D]

Why do I feel like this is turning into Carrie?

[C]

Ooh, I was thinking Harry Potter, but it's a little bit of both. In July of 1877, Mary Loranci began to startle awake at night. There were people in her room, her voices. She couldn't see anyone at first, but they were whispering in her ear, and they were whispering her nickname. They were saying, rancy, Rancy, Rancy.

[D]

Oh, that's so scary.

[C]

Yeah. So she was terrified, and she told her mom about this. And then just a few days later, after hearing all of these voices in the middle of the night, Rancy just collapsed. It was evening. She was with her family. She collapsed and started convulsing for hours. And what they thought was a seizure at the time, Right?

[D]

I would think that, too.

[C]

Yeah. And this would be the first of many seizures for poor Ranci. So through autumn of that year of 1877, Ranci would drift in and out of these seizures, which seemed to be a lot more like trances. And I know that, like, absent seizures can also kind of look more like someone's just in a daze or in a trance or, like, drifting off into space. But when she came out, she would describe seeing two of her deceased relatives. She would see her own brother and sister. So it wasn't like she was just completely blank.

[D]

Did you say it said Benjamin and then something else?

[C]

I have no idea.

[D]

I'm curious. Does she know the names of the siblings?

[C]

You know what? I don't think I wrote them down.

[D]

What if it is Benjamin and Boo?

[C]

So basically, like, she was going into these seizures, which would. Who's Jesse?

[D]

Well, Lara's story is that she was sadly murdered by her brother. I wonder if his name was Jesse.

[C]

Jesse. I hope not.

[D]

Elara, you're safe.

[C]

I have to remember him.

[D]

Okay, so she's seeing her deceased siblings.

[C]

She's seeing her deceased siblings. So these, like. I don't know what happens when people seize and if they, like, hallucinate or if they dream or if it's just blank. I'm not sure. But, yeah, she was coming out, and she was talking about the two siblings that she'd lost. Her own brother and sister. And while the visions were obviously, like, very confusing, but also maybe a little exciting to get a glimpse of the other side, it really did start to take a toll on her, and her health continued to decline. By winter, these trances or seizures intensified, and now Ransi was crippled with violent stomach pains. Multiple times a day, she would drift off into this dreamlike state. She would stare blankly for hours at a time. Though when she would return from the state, she was completely mentally normal again. So again, they're like, is this a seizure? Is this not, like, what's going on?

[D]

Right. Did they go to the doctors?

[C]

They eventually do bring in a doctor. Yeah.

[D]

Okay, I am raising my hand here, because the first time your child has a potential seizure, don't you take them to the doctor?

[C]

But I don't know what happens in the 1870s, I guess. I think the doctor comes to you.

[D]

That's true.

[C]

Oh, I should have dressed up as a.

[D]

You got the. You got the spiritualist vibes.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, Very much.

[C]

Very much. They're in agreement. I got the spiritualist vibes. When Rainci was first entering these trances, she started to see her brother and sister. Right. But by now, a few months later, she is starting to describe seeing angels in heaven.

[A]

Interesting.

[C]

And her parents are becoming increasingly concerned for her, and so they did whatever they could to help her. So two physicians were actually brought in to help or I guess like evaluate Ranci and hopefully provide some answers as to how she could recover or what illness this is or whatever.

[D]

Also, I know that this is a possession story. So I'm curious if Francis. Hi, Francis. Are we calling St. Francis for some assistance? But I'm curious if her saying she's seeing angels and what's heaven like, is that what the spirits are telling her or is that just intuited? Right.

[C]

Like that's what she believes she's intuited Sounds right. But it is interesting because while she didn't call upon St. Francis, like, they did call religion into play here, so they did bring in a Methodist minister.

[B]

Invisible Wicca.

[C]

Oh, Wicca. Some witchcraft going on, you think? Maybe some dark magic. Are we adding an extra element into the story?

[D]

We are.

[C]

So she's seen by two physicians. She's seen by this Methodist minister. And in the end, basically, she's not given any medicine or treatment plan, no care plan. She's not even given a diagnosis. Instead, these professionals recommend a different line of treatment. They say that Mary Loranci needs to be sent to the asylum because Mary Lorancy is insane.

[D]

Okay. I've just been reading a lot about history of female hysteria.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

And like hysteria. I'm glad they didn't recommend that because she's a child.

[C]

Oh, my God. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[D]

And if you don't know, hysteria comes from the word. It's like a Greek word, like history.

[C]

For uterus.

[D]

For uterus. Like hysteria. And doctors used to.

[B]

It's coming.

[C]

Oh, no.

[D]

Are you adding to the story? It's coming. Doctors used to like prescribe massaging of the clitoris as a cure for hysteria.

[C]

Yeah. Women have long undergone. Undergone. Whoa, now I'm making up my own words.

[D]

That's fine.

[C]

Anyway.

[D]

It's awful.

[C]

It's awful. So now they're saying that they need to send this 13 year old girl to the asylum. And so this is where Asa Roth, the Roff Family steps in, because this is the Venom family, and they live down the road from the way. So, like, the other side of town.

[D]

You just said, move out of my way.

[C]

We're stationary. Yeah.

[D]

Who's in the way? I mean, it is a very cluttered room.

[C]

Yeah, there's a lot of stuff.

[B]

Bring it.

[D]

Bring what? My dance moves.

[C]

So Asa Roff, the Roth family. There, down the road, they built the Italian ape mansion. They're the spiritualists. And now, again, this is a small town, so gossip travels. The Roffs had not previously had any meaningful contact with the Venoms, other than the two men from each household meeting, like, one time in passing.

[D]

If anything, there was, like, maybe a wrapping paper sale over the years.

[C]

Exactly. It was like, nothing more than, like, one single exchange of pleasantries. Otherwise, they had no communication with each other. They didn't know details of each other's lives other than what was passed through the town. Gossip.

[D]

Sure.

[C]

And so, basically, this is how the Roff family learns that the Venoms were experiencing this with their daughter and that there was the recommendation to send her to the asylum. And so ASA Roff is like, oh, my God. This cannot happen. He worked as a lawyer, and he was no stranger to what the Venoms were enduring because his own daughter, Mary, had suffered a similar ailment. She had sudden fits. She had visions that overtook her. And just, like, what was about to happen or like, what was happening with the Venoms, the Roth family was advised to send her to an asylum for treatment. And In July of 1865, at 18 years old, Mary Roth died at the asylum? I believe so.

[D]

Oh, my gosh. Well, I was just thinking, at 13 years old, could you imagine being sent to an asylum, being taken away from your family? You're already, like, going through this, like, horrific ailment, whether it's mental illness or physical illness. And then you're isolated from your family, put in a really terrifying foreign place where you probably aren't being treated the best. That's so scary.

[C]

I know. My right arm is suddenly, like, absolutely freezing, too. I keep trying to rub it on the armchair to warm it up.

[D]

Maybe Elara was saying, move out of the way so she can get to the microphone.

[C]

Oh, sorry. You can sit here, too.

[D]

You guys are kind of matching. You have similar dresses.

[C]

Oh, yeah. Well, I think I was inspired by you. All right. Okay. So Mary passes away, and this was before the Roffs had moved down the street from the Venoms. And at the time of Mary Roth's death, Ranci, who was now being told at 13 years old that she should go to the asylum was only one year old. So they were. They were not near the same age. Like, there was no interaction with these children either.

[D]

So she passed away when Ranci was 1 years old.

[C]

Yeah. Okay. Mary Roff was 18.

[D]

Yeah. Okay.

[C]

So Asa is pleading with Ranci's parents. He's like, do not make the same mistake that we did. Do not send her to the sanatorium. And Asa then asks them, the family, the Venoms, to allow a Wisconsin physician who is also a spiritualist, Dr. E. Winchester Stevens, to first see Ranci before they make any final decisions.

[D]

I am so glad that the Roth family is stepping in.

[C]

Right. And, like, I'm sure he's convincing. One, because he's a lawyer, and two, it's like, also, like, a parent to parent situation. He's, like, pleading, like, no, we experience the same thing, and it's one of our, like, deepest regrets that actually this.

[D]

Is a great neighbor.

[C]

Yeah. So he pleads with them, please let me bring in this doctor, spiritualist friend that I have. Physician. And the Venoms, wanting to do whatever they could to help save their daughter, agreed and invited this spiritualist physician, Stevens and the Ross into their home. On January 31, 1878, Stevens and Asa Roth arrived to the venom home, and they found Ranci hunched over the stove. Her eyes were hard, her voice was sharp, and when Stevens asked her name, she did not say l' Ranci or her nickname, Ranci. She instead identified herself as Katrina Hogan.

[D]

Oh.

[C]

She answered that her age was 63. She was from Germany. Oh. And then abruptly, she was someone else this time, a man named Willie Canning. And the room is becoming super crowded with all these identities coming through.

[D]

I'm also imagining her Ranci's just, like, demeanor completely shifting, her voice changing as each entity is coming through her, which makes me so sad because clearly she's a medium or a vessel of some kind that is open to. What's the word? Where you can, like, channel spirits, but, like, there's no boundaries because she doesn't know how to control it.

[C]

Right. And this isn't necessarily, like, my thought, too, also went to just, like, different mental illnesses where, like, you know, you have different identities coming forward and stuff. But I think my understanding of that situation is that there's always, like, an identity that's present and forward. And I think that for her, there were just some big sudden bouts of, like, many switching through, and then she was herself again. Jeez. So there's a bunch coming through. And again, like, like you said, there's the question of is Ranci channeling spirits through her or had she become possessed?

[D]

So, Stevens, I think we view possession as a demonic spirit, but possession can be just spirits.

[B]

Seance. All right.

[C]

Seance, seance, seance. All right.

[B]

Assuredly.

[D]

Would you like to do a seance?

[C]

Well, it's interesting because this is like kind of what happens.

[D]

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And after you buy, do us a favor. Let them know that you heard about them from us and enjoy gopier. So in the time that Stevens was here, he started coaxing and questioning Ranci to try to get the answers that he needed. But after an hour of doing so and not really getting any meaningful information, Ranci fell to the floor. And then she entered one of these trances. So now she was just, like, staring off into space. And in this trance, she actually was able to speak more freely and more focused, and Steven's questions were answered more directly. So while she's, like, staring off into space, she stated that. That she believed that Katrina and Willie were evil spirits.

[D]

Oh.

[C]

And Stevens then asked for a higher, purer spirit to step forward and take control. Ranci replied that there were many, but there was one angel who could step forward and provide her name. And the angel's name was Mary. Mary Roth. No.

[D]

Oh, my God.

[C]

Right? Chills. Like, my nips get hard when that happens.

[D]

Oh, wow. Okay. Well, my question. I'm so curious if Mary.

[B]

Please go.

[C]

He said please go.

[D]

Oh, sorry.

[C]

We will in about 60 minutes.

[D]

I'm so curious if Mary had come through before. And because there is a skeptic part of me that's like, okay, now that the Ross family is coming in and they've, like, shared their story and their tragedy, I come and go of their daughter Mary. Is that why Ranci is now bringing up her name?

[C]

Right, Right. Like, again, like I said in the beginning, is this a real possession case, or is this a performance? So this happens. Jaws are on the floor, and presumably mostly Asa's jaw is on the floor, because here he is trying to save this little girl in this town from suffering the same fate that his own daughter did like a decade before.

[D]

Right?

[C]

And now he's standing in front of this little girl, and his own little girl speaks out and his own daughter.

[D]

Is trying to do. What he's trying to do is save her.

[C]

Yes.

[D]

Ugh.

[C]

So Ranci stated then she would like Mary Roth to take over her body, and that is exactly what happened. There were no more evil spirits fighting over Ranci, just one angel, Mary Roth. Arancy's body then softened once she welcomed in this other spirit, Mary, and she became quite courteous, very affectionate. She was a bit timid, but very polite.

[D]

Okay, but okay.

[C]

Sorry.

[D]

Cynical me. Is this really Mary, or is this the most powerful, dark.

[B]

What should I do?

[D]

Entity who had strategy? And I know that's probably not where this is going, given if there were.

[C]

Some, like, nefarious acts that came after that, I would say, oh, yeah, totally. But actually, this is kind of a lovely possession story, but it was really interesting because, like, this was such a stark difference from Ranci's own personality over the past few months. And the way that her body softened and the way that she spoke and carried herself, it was so, so different. And it was exactly the way Mary Roth had when she was alive. And so here's a little bit where the story veers off course from where we see other possession cases happen, because Ranci allows Mary to access her body. And we can presume that this was meant to help Ranci, kind of like, stay safe when communicating and advocating for herself with the physician. Stevens, because there were other spirits, bad spirits, apparently, who were trying to take over her body. Right. But Mary did not just temporarily stay in Ranci's body. She stayed for a long time.

[D]

Well, then where's Ranci?

[C]

Somewhere still hidden in her own body, I guess.

[D]

This is wild.

[C]

And she didn't just stay for a long time. She wanted to go home. So Mary begged to go home with her parents. Yeah, she begged to go back to the Roth house just for a little bit of time because she was so homesick.

[D]

Oh, my God. Which is like, I get it, and that's sad, but how do you deal with that as Nancy's parents?

[C]

Right?

[D]

We're like, okay, we feel for you and your loss, and we're really sorry, Mary, but, like, how do we get our daughter back?

[C]

Right. I think that there was a bit of back and forth, and they did eventually let her go.

[D]

Okay. Another cynical thought. Is this actually the Roth family's entire plan, and they did a seance and told Mary to go take over Satanic. Yeah. Did they tell Mary to go take her body because they knew that she was a vessel.

[C]

Oh, my gosh. And Asa Raf didn't hear about it from town gossip. It was just because they orchestrated it. Yes, that is a cynical view.

[D]

Plot twist.

[C]

I don't think anyone is alive from this story.

[D]

So hard to know.

[C]

You know, we can still say the word allegedly, but I don't think that this is a true accusation of what happened. But she begged to go home.

[D]

Witch.

[C]

Witch. She was super homesick. And actually, when Mary Roth's mother, Anne, and her older sister Minerva, walked into the Venom home to see this girl, Ranci, who supposedly was their daughter slash sister Mary, the girl cried, there comes my Ma and my sister Nervy. Using a nickname for Minerva that the family had not used since Mary's death. It was like what Mary called her sister Minerva. So Mary.

[D]

Only Mary would have really known that.

[C]

Yeah, because no one else called her Nervy.

[D]

Oh, my gosh.

[C]

Though reluctant, Mr. Venom called Mr. Roth's office on February 1, and he said, quote, she seems like a child, real homesick, wanting to see her PA and Ma and her brothers.

[D]

Oh, my gosh.

[C]

I assume her sister Minerva, too, but I guess she'd already laid eyes on her.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

On February 11, 1878, less than two weeks after Mary Roth took over Ranci Venom's body, and with the consent of both families, the girl moved into the Roffs home.

[D]

I'm sorry. Like, I cannot imagine being Ranty's parents.

[C]

Right? They took it really hard. I know that Mr. Venom did go visit and some other relatives did, but I don't think her mom went and visited because she was like, this is so not my daughter. Like, it was too hard. Yeah, it was too hard. It was so confusing. She didn't act anything like her and didn't recognize her either, and was, like, kind of in distress. One, like, the threat of being taken from her. Her home. The Rof. The Roff's home.

[D]

Why do I feel like Rancy is the one communicating with us on Ghost Tube? Like, it just said I'm weak. Like, was Ranci so weak?

[C]

I mean, probably.

[D]

That's like Mary was just taking over her dolls.

[C]

Well, we do have a doll here. Okay, well, I don't want to give too much away, but, like, she was weak.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

And Mary wasn't making her weak. I think Mary was actually, like, protecting her as she regained her strength from battling these spirits for, like, all of fall into winter. Yeah, maybe. Maybe. Okay. So then they ask how long Mary in Ranci's body is going to stay here. And she said, quote, the angels will let me stay until sometime in May. And this was February that she.

[D]

That's a very poetic sentence.

[C]

Yes. The angels will let me stay until sometime in May. And she remained there for three months and 10 days.

[D]

Oh, my gosh.

[C]

A daughter returned in a borrowed body. And here's the thing. This maybe could have been dismissed by other people as, like, this teen girl with some mental health struggles and a grieving family who's looking for any sign of their daughter to see that. Like, that she's still with them. Right, Right. But this goes beyond Ranci just behaving like Mary. She has Mary's memories now.

[D]

Oh, my gosh.

[C]

Mary in Ranci's body recognized everyone that Mary Roth had known. Neighbors, school friends, household visitors from the 1850s and the early 1860s, before Ramsey had even been born.

[D]

This is crazy.

[C]

Sometimes she would remember them by other names. So, like, when people had been married and, like, their surname had changed, and she didn't know that because she died, she'd call them by their. The name that she knew that by. Yeah. Oh. She called one woman by her widow's name from years before, not knowing that the woman had lost her spouse and remarried. And now that was the name everyone was using. She recalled a journey to Texas that the family had made years earlier. So there was, like, a family vacation.

[D]

Oh, my gosh.

[C]

And she was recalling the different companions they made on the trail, really specific details about the vacation, things that they learned while they were on the vacation.

[D]

This somewhat reminds me of the Pollock twins reincarnation story.

[C]

Oh, God.

[D]

Yeah, I know. It's very different, but, like, tangentially, they have some parallels. It's, like, proven in a way to be Mary.

[C]

Right. There's, like, no trickery. There's no teenage girl who can act her heart out in the way that she is or, like, guess correctly so many times at such specific details, it doesn't make any sense.

[D]

Oh, my gosh.

[C]

So this appeared to be, without a doubt, Mary Roth getting a second chance at living, even for just a few months through Rancy Venom's body. Some other strange things happened. Apparently, for the first month out of the three that Mary was home, she refused to eat. She, like, literally didn't eat for one month. She said that she was getting what she needed from heaven and that she would refrain from eating until the body was ready again.

[D]

Okay, what? I mean, scientifically, can't you not go that long?

[C]

More than, like, seven or ten days or something like that? Right? Yeah.

[D]

I don't know what the breakdown is. It's like, obviously, you need water.

[C]

Water definitely first. Geez. Yeah, but apparently she didn't eat for a month.

[D]

That girl is snacking on chocolate up in her room.

[C]

That's what I was like. Oh, she's the midnight snacker. She's eating everything in the middle of the night.

[D]

Mysteriously, like, the cheese is disappearing.

[A]

Right.

[C]

Okay. So a bunch of other strange things happen. And actually she is entering into these trances again. So just like she had previously when all these spirits were coming through and entering Ranci's body and speaking through before Mary took her over, this apparently starts to happen again. And one day, one of the voices says that he lived and died in Tennessee. And then the spirit stated that Mary would continue to keep control of Ranci's body until she was healthy again.

[B]

Cleaning.

[D]

Cleaning house. I'm just so curious. I would love to know what Ranci's perspective is and, like, if she has any memory at all from these months of being of recovering, if that's what it's being called.

[C]

Well, I think the answer is no. And we'll get there. Okay, so Mary's sister, Minerva Nervi, wrote a lot. She wrote a letter to Dr. Stevens, the physician and spiritualist that said, quote, a few days ago, Mary was caressing her father and mother and they became little tired of it and asked why she hugged and kissed them. She sorrowfully looked at them and said, oh, Pa and Mom, I want to kiss you while I have lips and hug you while I have an arm to hug you with.

[D]

Wait, this is so sad.

[C]

For I'm going to heaven before long and then I can only be with you in spirit. And you will not always.

[D]

Are you okay? Oh, I am sad. Yeah, this is sad.

[C]

And you will not always know when I come. And I cannot love you as I can now. Oh, how much I love you all.

[D]

Why do I feel like she sounds like a Shirley Temple character? Yeah, a little bit, the way you also read it.

[C]

So this is very much a special thing for the Ross to experience. Probably for Mary herself too. Right? Because they're. They're getting this.

[D]

It's.

[C]

It's a mixed feelings.

[D]

Well, it's a reminder that this is temporary and that they really did lose their daughter.

[C]

And it's so weird too, because you're, like, getting hugged and kissed by your daughter, but it's like, not physically her.

[D]

And I understand. This actually really reminds me of the movie Bring Her Back that just came out because it is very similar of like trying to get a new vessel and bring back a spirit of your loved one. But it's horrible because in one way. Yes. There's temporary spell. It's like a temporary reunion with your loved one, but at some point you're going to lose them again.

[C]

I know. And then there's a whole other family too, that you have to consider. It's like you're borrowing another person who's still alive. Yeah. And so the Venoms, like, they felt conflicted too. I mentioned this before, but, like, Mrs. Venom didn't visit. It was weird. The person looked like her daughter, but it wasn't her daughter at all. She had no knowledge or memory of them. She only knew this family, the Roffs, who they hadn't known anything about prior to this. So it's like it was too hard for her to watch the body of her daughter, haunted, just like reject her and fully embrace this other family.

[D]

I mean, this is why I do feel like there's some, like, other thing happening behind the scenes that maybe is just not really talked about in the story. Because how convenient that this family, the Roth family, came in to try to prevent the family from sending their 13 year old daughter to a asylum, and then all of a sudden they get to steal their. Instead of the daughter going to asylum, this daughter goes to live with the Roth family. It does feel a little too convenient.

[C]

It does. But also, it's like when we're talking about the spirit world, is this how things work?

[D]

I don't know. There's something about it that I just.

[C]

Feel like there's something a little icky about it. Yeah, for sure. On May 7, Mary went to her mother and told her that Luanci venom was coming back. Within moments, Mary's sweet and calm disposition changed. And suddenly a new personality emerged. She looked at her mother, Dorothy. It was kind of confusing because some people said that her name was Anne and that maybe it was whatever her mom's name was.

[D]

It could be Dorothy Ann.

[C]

Yeah, Dorothy Ann. She looked at her mother and it was no longer Mary looking at her own mom. This was not her mom. Ranci stood before her, absolutely terrified, looking around her, confused, apparently, as to where she was. And then she begins to cry. She was so scared and she wanted to go home.

[D]

Oh, that makes me so sad.

[C]

Just as quickly as Ranci came back.

[D]

I'm sorry. I'm having so much anxiety. I need to take this off.

[C]

Okay. Take it off.

[B]

Please come back.

[D]

I'm back. Sorry.

[C]

The cocoon. You've been reborn.

[D]

I was really trying to breathe through it and it got to a point where I thought I was gonna die.

[C]

Yeah. So just as quickly as Ranci came back into her body. Mary took it over again. Ranci had only been present for five minutes, of which she was really scared and asking to go home and confused as to where she was. So Mary came back forward and said that she would actually stay in Ranci's body for a few more weeks until May 21st. Huh. Asa Roth, in a letter written to Dr. Stevens, which I appreciate that they're like the family. I don't know if it was like a required check in that they had to like write updates about what was happening to this physician, but now the father, Asa, is writing quote, mary is to leave the body of Rancid today about 11 o'. Clock. So she says she's so.

[D]

I've never heard of anything so clinical when it comes to a possession.

[C]

Right. It does feel like a possession and not like this girl had any say in, like, acting out the parts because, like, there's too many unrelated people moving in, like a perfect line forward.

[D]

Right? Huh.

[C]

So he said, mary is to leave the body of ranci today about 11 o'. Clock. So she says. She's bidding neighbors and friends goodbye. She tells me to write to Dr. Stevens as follows. Tell him I am going to heaven and Ranci is coming home as well. She says she will see your dear children in spirit life. She talked most lovingly about the separation to take place. And most beautiful was her talk about heaven and her home.

[D]

Huh. Then wait, okay, so now I'm curious. Like, is this physician communicating with a spirit of some kind, or did Mary say this to him?

[C]

No, Mary said this to her dad, I want to talk in Ranci's body. And then said, hey, can you tell this to Steven? Gotcha.

[D]

Okay.

[C]

So he's writing down like, hey, my daughter told you. Told me to tell you.

[D]

Okay, okay, okay.

[C]

My daughter, who's in spirit form that's possessing this other child, told me to tell you.

[D]

Okay.

[C]

That she's leaving at 11 o'.

[D]

Clock. A lot of like, so who? Yeah, okay.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[D]

Telephone.

[C]

But it's a game of letters. At 11 o' clock that day, Mary did leave lrancy Venom's body. Ranci looked up at Asa Raf, a man who she did not know, with fear induced tears, addressing Mr. Roff as sir and asking him to please take her home to her family. So she did not recognize him, which makes me think she truly was like, trapped somewhere and didn't know what was.

[D]

Going on, which makes me just so scared for Rancy and her soul for three months. Where is she and what Is she enduring? What is she seeing and experiencing? Were there flickers where she came through? Like I imagine when Mary was sleeping in her body. Did Ranci's consciousness come through?

[C]

Oh, that's who was snacking in the middle of the night or. Gotta keep her alive.

[D]

Was ranty, like fully booted from the body and just like in this. Ethereal, like unknown in the.

[C]

Like in between.

[D]

Which makes me think of insidious. Did she get trapped in a scarier place right below Elara? Are you trying to say where Ranci was?

[C]

She was alone.

[D]

Below, I think.

[C]

Oh, below.

[D]

Huh.

[B]

Asylum. Hi.

[C]

Oh, well, she avoided the asylum, right?

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Ranci was returned home. She did not hear voices again. She did not have seizures again. She did not have trances again. She did not speak of the dead again. She did not spirit channels again.

[D]

Whoa.

[C]

She did.

[D]

She wasn't a spirit channel anymore. I get it.

[C]

She did not channel spirits again. She instead went on to live a completely normal spirit free life.

[D]

Gosh, if only she had a. It was in a time where she was writing an essay to apply to college. Let me tell you about the three months that I spent in possessed someone else's home because there was a spirit possessing my body.

[C]

I know. Well, so she lived at home with her family until she married George Binning in 1882. They then moved to Kansas two years later. If you want to know. If you want to know from Osney, if you want to know more about this story and what happened to Ranci after too, there is a book that I read. It is from Dr. Stevens himself. He published about the case in 1878. There is a fuller edition too. I don't know which version I read. It was like 40 or 50 pages. But I'll link it in the show notes. It's called the Watezka Wonder. And it's a very interesting read because it also includes a lot more dialogue between everyone. And it is written in like, you know, the older English. Cause it's from the 1800s. And so I was like, this is so like I. I was using like the transatlantic accent when I was reading, of course. But I did think it was cool.

[B]

Fire.

[D]

Are you saying Corinne's telling of the story is fire also?

[C]

Another interesting fact about this case is that William James, who was the first educator to offer psychology courses in the US and is often dubbed the father of American psychology, stated that this case, the Roff Venom case, was, quote, perhaps as extreme a case of possession of the modern sort as one can find.

[B]

Terrible.

[C]

Because, I mean, she was fully possessed for a good three plus months.

[D]

It's just such a different iteration of possession than we've talked about.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

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And I've talked about how many PMS symptoms I get. So having a product that helps balance my hormones is magic. It's pure magic.

[C]

Glow is a woman's super powder made with 18 powerhouse ingredients designed to support hormonal balance. And the result is basically like, we have more energy, stronger hair and nails, metabolism support. I also feel like I'm sleeping better at night.

[D]

It makes such a difference. Getting your hormones in balance. Yeah, big fan.

[C]

Might have been real wacky. So this has been a great addition.

[D]

And just one packet a day in water is only 10 calories. It's caffeine free, gluten free, dairy free, vegan and Third party tested. Plus, it actually tastes amazing. They have multiple flavors to choose from, but I have been loving the strawberry kiwi flavor mix.

[C]

And they have over 40,000 women who have tried Glow by Beam, and so do we. So for a limited time, Beam is offering our listeners up to 35% off Glow. Just visit shopbeam.com TGOG and use code TGOG at checkout. That's B E A M.com TGOG and don't forget to use code TGOG for your exclusive discount. Okay, so now we'll dissect the story a little bit and try to understand some of the influences at the time. So, obviously, the Roth family were spiritualists, right? And then they brought in Dr. Stevens, who was a physician, but he was also a spiritualist.

[D]

And obviously the Roth family was conducting seances for weeks and weeks and weeks and then came up with a plan.

[C]

Fact. That's a theory.

[D]

That's a theory, yeah.

[C]

So the spiritualist movement is happening in tandem with this case. In the 1870s, spiritualism had gone from this sort of, like, parlor novelty to a real social movement. And circles would meet, mediums would lecture journals, chronicled spirit returns. And so this was a big thing. And so, again, like you said, like, there could have been some motivation behind the scenes from the Roffs to do this right? In Illinois, the conversation around the Watuska case would become one of this movement's showcase stories. And of course, this brought in also many investigators. Richard Hodgson, a tireless investigator of mediums, had gone out to Watuska to check out and witness all of this himself. And he declared this case substantially as described. So basically, he was saying, like, 24. It seems implausible for it to be anything more than what it is, which is seemingly a case of possession. But not everyone agreed with him. In 1903, psychologist Frank Sargent Hoffman examined the reports and offered a different label. He said hysterical impersonation. He argued that Ranci was just this suggestible teen and perhaps she was immersed in gossip about the dead girl, Mary Roth. Maybe that was like, a thing of the town. And she just became so absorbed in every detail. Enough so that she could impersonate Mary without any supernatural help.

[D]

Okay, let's explore that as a possibility. What a drastic way to go about running away from home and, like, and then to return to home and then to return. If it is like a mental illness in any way, it would continue throughout her life. Like, it doesn't just, like.

[C]

Oh, it doesn't just abruptly stop after it resolved three months and seven days or whatever.

[D]

Yeah, that. Help. Do you need help?

[C]

Who needs help?

[D]

All of us. Me?

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

You're agreeing?

[C]

Yes, I need help. No, to all of us. It was a delayed agreement. Journalist H. Addington Bruce likewise favored a psychological and social explanation. He said it was imitation. It was suggestion. It was the dynamics of a grieving family longing to believe that the child came back. So there was a lot of either, like, suggestion on the part of the Roffs for, like, how to act or details or. Do you remember? And maybe it wasn't just all magically given up by Mary in Ranci's body. Sure. So everyone's like, okay, what's going on? We have this Witusca Wonder case. What is it? In the end? Well, we can say what it looked like, right? We know that in the winter and Spring of 1878, a teenager who had suffered seizures, entrances stopped seizing. A dead girl's identity appeared in her place, knowing names, rooms, details not written or spoken about anywhere else. And then three months later, this identity left the teenage patient inexplicably recovered. We can also say that some of the best minds of the era could not agree on what happened. Some found spiritual hypothesis less absurd than the alternatives. And some instead found grief and suggestion and the malleability of a young mind to be the explanation.

[D]

Huh.

[C]

And we can say what the living who were there said, what Mary's own sister said, that during those three months, she was allowed to hug her mother again, to tuck herself into her childhood bed, to speak of going away soon and loving them while she still had them in her arms. Whether you believe that that was the dead borrowing a body or the living discovering a new way to heal. For the Roffs, it was healing. It was a great experience. And the house where this happened, the house where Marion Ranci spent those 91 days, still stands today. It's known today as the Roff House. It has been carefully restored. Its owners worked to earn the landmark Illinois preservation award in 2020, honoring this sort of revival of the original 1868 Italianate mansion. Well, I'd say mansion. It was a home where this famous story takes place. And over the past decade and a half, more than 10,000 visitors have toured or stayed the night. And if you are the sort of person who likes history immersed with mystery.

[D]

Yeah, like us.

[C]

You can stay overnight.

[D]

Ooh.

[C]

Because it is an Airbnb. No way.

[D]

I thought it was going to be like a.

[C]

Like, you. You book through, like, the website or, like, whatever, and it's just. Yeah. Wow. It's An Airbnb. Anyone can stay there. People who don't even know that they're staying there can stay there.

[D]

Right. They don't realize the history of it.

[C]

Right? Yeah. They have no idea.

[D]

They're like, I just wanted to stay in Illinois.

[C]

Yeah. Oh, it's so. It's so crazy.

[D]

Crazy. Yeah, it is. Lara, you're one of us.

[C]

Obviously, people who are interested in the paranormal and these sort of stories, they do book the Airbnb and. And I didn't, like, find any real evidence online, but people say that or investigators claim that there are EMF spikes. EVPs are captured, there are shadow figures walking around. Lights will flicker. Just a very various paranormal anomalies.

[D]

Well, we don't know what was going on with the Ross in that house, how many seances they had. If they had made contact with other spirits prior to, like, in attempt to make contact with Mary. They're visiting you.

[C]

Who? Or are you just saying, like, these spirits are visiting you when you book a stay at this place?

[D]

Maybe just as a note, if you're hearing background noise right now, it is not a haunting. It is the generator.

[C]

Yes. We're professional. Is still being kind and enjoying this experience. We believe.

[D]

And so I do love Alara.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

This is good vibes.

[C]

Good vibes. But, yeah. If you find yourself curious about booking a stay here, perhaps you will find yourself in a position like Mary, where you can stay until sometime in May.

[D]

Or you'll find yourself in a position where Mary takes over your body and is staying in the home until May and you return to your life.

[C]

It's. Sorry.

[D]

Out of office, possessed by a girl from the 1800s who misses her family.

[C]

But isn't that such a wild case I have?

[D]

I don't know how to feel about it because I know I want to.

[C]

I gotta take my mask off, too.

[D]

But, like, I do want to believe it's this, like, beautiful story. And in a way it is. But it is also really tragic. And I have suspicions that perhaps there were other things going on behind the scenes that we're not fully aware of. And I feel really, really sad for Ranci, what happened to her in that time. Regardless of if Mary was pleasant and it was a, you know, agreed upon. Hey, help me take my body while I heal. Ranci went through a lot.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

And Ranci's family had to experience a loss. That's pretty traumatic.

[C]

Totally. I know. It is such a confusing thing. And it's like I want the answer to be within Ranci.

[D]

I keep seeing a shadow move it's like right here.

[C]

Where?

[D]

It's right here on the curtain. And I kept thinking like, I'm doing.

[C]

Something, but it's above me. Ooh, that freaks me out. Oh, it's my. Oh, it's your. It's your mothman antennas. My antennae. Okay, I'm putting my math work on. I told myself I'd commit to the full episode.

[D]

Debunked. Okay, I have a story from our listener, Ellie, and it is called My dad was Possessed.

[C]

Oh, I shouldn't chuckle. Sorry.

[D]

My dad too. Ellie, perhaps still. Hi, my name is Ellie. I'm a relatively new listener, but I've been binge watching on YouTube what's going on with. Come inside, chapel. Ellie thinks we would enjoy the story. Ellie says. I'm originally from Germany. I grew up in the Eiffel Mountain Range and then moved to a city named Trier, which is arguably one of the oldest cities in Germany. I've experienced hauntings all my life and had the coolest witchy great grandma, my Omi, who I've inherited some abilities from which I'll share more on next time. But due to a language barrier, I apologize for any mistakes. Weird ways of saying and pronouncing things because I'm not from here. This story takes place when I was five years old. Some of the details, memory wise, are a little wishy, but I also have gaps filled by word of mouth from my mom and dad. At this point in time, we moved into a house located in a town called Spiker. This house was one of my favorite ones we ever lived in. And growing up with an American military dad, we moved a lot. This was a cute little town surrounded by fields, forests, and mountains. And there was one forest right outside of our house. And while we weren't allowed to go play in this forest, it was early 2000s, and my parents didn't pay a ton of attention at times. So as a child, I went and explored, even though we shouldn't have. I don't know exactly what caused the following events, but there are a number of things that played a part in this. The old landscape, the old house, my dad's mental state coming out of active duty in the military, or my mother's involvement in magic. Ooh. But the year of 2005 was an eventful. I'm hoping was an eventful one. You're hoping it's magic.

[C]

Us too.

[D]

It began with my brother and I playing deep in the woods and stumbling upon an old cottage. This feels like an old German fairy tale. Hansel and Gretel the door was unlocked, and while I was an overly cautious child, my brother was not. So when he decided to step inside, I followed behind him.

[B]

How are you?

[D]

Even though we were 5 and 7 at the time, our memories of this are vivid. The interior was dusty, it smelled horrible. Most of the furniture was broken, and the elements and nature had taken over most of the cottage. The flooring was dirt and growing grass. There was graffiti on the walls. We explored a little more, and Finn, my brother, found a brooch under the old wood stove, and he decided to keep it. It was cool and honestly, probably a very cute hunter's cottage at one point in time. So both of us stepped outside. We circled the building, and my brother let out a huge gasp when, looking a little ways out, he saw a grave. And this is when I decided to stay back. But he decided to go investigate and told me that the grave said a name which I no longer remember. But it was dated 1946, and it had a small symbol on it that was no longer recognizable.

[B]

Tell me about it. Move out of my way. Follow me.

[D]

A lot of things happening right now.

[C]

Today.

[D]

We speculate that it might have been a German soldier's grave from World War II. But I have a theory that the brooch was haunted. Because fast forward a few months and my parents are in the thick of fighting constantly, and this is a very stressful time in Germany, and both my parents hated working, which, I mean, I get. But when both parties refused to do so, and we constantly have living room candlelit camping nights because utilities were shut off, it sucks. Life is what it is. And at the time, those were some nice moments for a codependent, scared little girl like me. I loved having everyone around all at once. One of the normal nights, though, when the utilities were intact, my brother and I would have sleepovers in each other's rooms. He said he would like to stay with me in my room because he knew I hated being alone. But I also secretly think he hated being alone too. On this specific night, we heard both of our parents downstairs in the living room talking, and we decided to play spies. Slowly, we snuck our way down the stairs and sat by the door by the living room. We noticed everything was quiet the moment we got there. The lights were off, the TV was off. There was nothing. My brother peeked his head into the room and looked wide eyed and immediately waved for me to follow him back upstairs to go back to our room. He told me once we were up there that there was no one down there. So who did we hear? But he dismissed me. Our ome always taught us not to speak about the veil when it was open because if there was present activity, we should ignore it. And so we ignored it.

[B]

Watch me, Laura.

[D]

We actually didn't even speak about this night again until 2018. And also found out that like the Appalachia, European mountain ranges have some similarities. And our ami was raised pagan. This is also the year my mom started practicing magic on her own in secret because my dad was very Christian and raised in a very close minded household. She told me a few years ago that she had performed a spell for financial help, but thinks that she didn't word things correctly and maybe just something wrong. She did this in October and by early December, hell broke loose in our house.

[C]

Wow.

[D]

This is why you don't mess with things. If you don't really know what you're asking for or make sure you have like, boundaries set, intentions set. The earliest recollection I have about things being weird was when I had a nightmare. And this happened 20 years ago, but I still remember it as if it happened last night. The dream involved a little rotting monster. It was the size of a large dog, but looked like a zombified rat fox. Ooh. And it was hunting us in our house. In this nightmare, we hide in the attic, but all of a sudden, all the doors and windows in the house fly open and this thing got us. That's when I woke up. For the rest of that month, my dad started to act very strange. He would wander around the house at all hours of the day. He couldn't sleep. He would whisper things like see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil or strange. He would say over and over, 365 plus one mind.

[C]

Wait, what would he say?

[D]

365 plus one.

[C]

Oh, plus one.

[D]

366. I don't know.

[C]

365.

[D]

Damn, you're fine.

[C]

Give it to me one more time, killer.

[D]

Unfortunately, he was not doing that. And then he started speaking languages I've never heard before. He would snarl if you got too close to him when he was in a trance. His eyes would completely change from his normal gray color to a deep green yellow. This is so scary. This reminds me of the Arnish Ian Johnson case.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

During this time, my older brother became non verbal and was taken to school in the countryside where he would stay until 2011 and only visited us every other weekend. My mom became depressed and would sleep most days away.

[C]

My God.

[D]

It was just me.

[C]

This is happening to everyone. Like, everyone's so affected.

[D]

So it was Just me witnessing my father's conscious coma. He would tell horrible things about hell. He would ask me why my eyes were black. And he started having delusions of the walls turning to sand and scorpions crawling all over me. Or him or my mother, who was barely present mentally either. One night, I heard my parents screaming at each other. I crawled out of the bed into the middle of the stairs. I sat and watched. My dad had my mom pinned against the counter while holding a knife, screaming, what did you do to my family? I will cut all eight of your arms off if you don't bring my family back. I was six at this point, and I was fully aware that something was very, very wrong with my dad and that I might witness him hurt my mom. I bundled myself up in a ball on the stairs and I prayed. I was never taught how to do this, and I knew my prayer wasn't a good one. But I kept asking the universe that whoever was out there to please call my father and make him see the way I see things. I asked the universe to help my mom and make sure that we didn't die. When I opened my eyes, policemen were walking my dad out of the door. I had been sitting there with my eyes closed for about an hour. I guess my mom had noticed me and pleaded to him not to hurt her and that I was sitting on the stairs watching. He had turned and he came to. Enough. Basically cried to my mom saying, please call the police right now or I know something bad is going to happen. My dad stayed in a mental facility for six months and had another psychosis where everything replayed itself every two years. It always happened around December until 2012. At exactly midnight of that new year, my dad came out of this trance and since then has been living relatively okay and has had no more psychosis experiences since then.

[B]

Absolutely.

[D]

My theories are the brooch could have had something attached to it and attached itself to my dad. My mom may have invited something in with her spell because once my dad got put into the facility, he now receives money from the military for ptsd. I'm not saying he doesn't have any ptsd, but it is weird timing. And also they got money. Which proves again, to very much state your intentions very specifically. Yeah, like be clear of how you.

[C]

Want, how you get the money.

[D]

Or maybe it's just that the house in this mountains are haunted. I also have another theory about the world ending theory that happened around 2012 because I promise you guys that he was spanking out for that entire month and it was right up until midnight that he was having these delusions. But ever since it changed to midnight, he's been fine. So did the world end back then?

[C]

Did we shift somehow?

[D]

Or the world that we know kind of shifted? Yeah, exactly. Whatever it was, I think left him or died in 2012. This is also the same year that I got into witchcraft and I moved in with my grandma for a year, which I have plenty of stories from then as well. Also, my brother is totally fine now, too. He's 26. He has some trauma, but he's doing well. And he's still my best friend, but across the big blue ocean. Oh, also, I can't believe I didn't include this in the first email. But again, I was very young when everything happened, and this was an ongoing experience for about seven years, but my dad was diagnosed with schizophrenia during that time, but now somehow is completely fine and unmedicated and has zero mental illness issues since then, which schizophrenia doesn't have a cure. So I don't really know if that's what he had. Anyway, I'm not a doctor, but it's a little detail I wanted to add that really still boggles my mind. See you on the other side, Ellie.

[C]

Wow, that's horrifying. And that I would be so upset if that all was just because your mom did a money spill that went a little bit wrong.

[D]

Right. I mean, it could be just like a combination of all of those things.

[C]

Like, is there just, like, some energy from everyone? Yeah. Kind of coming out.

[D]

Ugh. It's just like the perfect storm of things happening. But I'm glad that everyone's okay. I cannot Even imagine, at 6 years old, seeing your dad threatening your mom with a knife, saying, like, I'm going to cut off all eight of your arms. And then also the way that her mom then retells it of when Ellie's mom saw Ellie, like, crying and, like, praying on the stairs. She pleaded with the dad, and the dad had a moment of coming to being, like, call the police. Like, I don't have control of myself.

[C]

Yeah. Oh, God.

[D]

I think your dad's possession's scarier than my dad's possession.

[C]

Yeah. I agree.

[D]

Not that this is a competition, but it became one. And you won just now. And you won and you won.

[C]

You get the ribbon for first place. Like, I don't even know what to say about this. It's just horrifying.

[D]

I needed to experience make the scary story happen at some point in this episode.

[C]

Yeah. I'm, like, grabbing onto myself from listening.

[D]

To This I know I'm clutching my fingers because I don't want to wear them. Yeah. Clutching my pearls except for my fingers. Alara, what did you think of today's episode? Anything you want to add? Did you have fun with us? Alara has left the building.

[C]

She's in a trance.

[D]

Mary, are you here?

[C]

Mary?

[D]

Huh? Well, Jesse, hope you enjoyed. Or Benjamin. Those were the two names we kept hearing. Jesse and Benjamin. Well, we hope you enjoyed this episode. We hope no one got haunted. If you have any ghostly paranormal encounters, please email them to [e-mail] Join us on Patreon for episodes one week early and ad free. Plus bonus content, plus campfire stories and so many other things. And also stay tuned because at the end of this month, we are announcing some refresh. Exciting new things happening on Patreon and possibly a retaping. I hope, I hope.

[B]

Talk with me.

[C]

We're trying.

[D]

What do you want to say? Oh, you want people to talk with you on Patreon? Ooh, that's a fun bonus.

[C]

Good idea, Lara.

[D]

So stay tuned. And also we wanted to let everyone know that there's a new member of our team.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

That we wanted to give.

[B]

I can't remember.

[D]

Well, we can remember. Her name is Emma and she's been helping us out with social media. She's been helping kind of like manage the. Some business stuff for us, which has been incredibly helpful. She's very creative. I think she has like a million jobs. I don't know how she does it all.

[C]

I truly don't.

[D]

She also has a child named Noah. We have a girl baby Noah and a boy baby Noah.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[D]

And thank you so much. In another place, our editor producer, Jamie Ryan.

[C]

Girl team, girl power. We love you all and we will see you on the other side. Very spooky.