Episode 351 - Ryan Hammons Reincarnation | Old Hollywood Star Reborn

Summary

Two Girls One Ghost

Episode 351: "Ryan Hammons Reincarnation | Old Hollywood Star Reborn"
Date: December 7, 2025
Hosts: Corinne Vien & Sabrina Deana-Roga

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Corinne and Sabrina dive into one of the most compelling modern cases of alleged reincarnation: the story of Ryan Hammons, a young boy from Oklahoma who, at age four, began recalling vivid memories of a past life as Marty Martin, a little-known Hollywood agent and tap dancer from the early 20th century. Blending humor, heart, and their signature spooky banter, the hosts explore ideas of consciousness, memory, and what happens after we die—juxtaposing Ryan’s journey with tales of their own paranormal encounters and listener stories of uncanny past-life memories.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Paranormal Updates

• Sabrina recounts her recent haunting while traveling solo in Edinburgh, Scotland

  • Booked immersive ghost tours with the City of the Dead, notably the “Double Dead” tour (Edinburgh Vaults & Greyfriars Kirkyard).
  • Was chosen on the tour to play the “Bloody Mackenzie” mausoleum ritual, reminiscent of Bloody Mary, which she performed with hesitation.
  • That night, experienced a disturbing, short nightmare of an old, “melty-faced” figure, followed by her first-ever episode of sleep paralysis—described as hands pulling her legs apart, with complete bodily paralysis (13:00–14:10).

    “All of my limbs are together, I’m like a needle in a bed... I start to feel, like, what are hands around my ankles pulling my legs apart. And my legs are actually moving apart, and I don’t like it. Who would? And so I start to, like, try to move. I cannot move any part of my body.” — Sabrina (13:00)

  • Shares protective mantras and lessons learned: don’t tempt fate with paranormal games, even “for a show.”

    “Scariest thing that’s happened to me in a very, very long time.” — Sabrina (17:20)

• Corinne describes low-key, possible new spirit activity at home

  • Electronic toys (a farm truck, humidifier) turn on/off without explanation (18:15–19:22).
  • Receives a text from a friend: their child’s DJ table activates inexplicably (19:21).

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2. Main Story: The Reincarnation of Ryan Hammons

Who was Marty Martin? (20:18–24:27)

• Born Morris Kalinsky in 1903, Philadelphia (Ukrainian immigrants).
• Tap dancer on Broadway in the 1920s; moved to LA aiming for movie stardom.
• Acting career floundered, so became a Hollywood talent agent.
• Lived in Beverly Hills (Roxbury Drive), loved Chinese food, traveled on Queen Mary, several marriages and children.
• Died at age 61 after battling leukemia and suffering a cerebral hemorrhage.

Ryan’s Early Memories & Family Reaction (30:04–36:08)

• Born in 2004 in Oklahoma, no Hollywood/fame connections.
• At 4, began telling his mom intensely detailed stories of another life in old Hollywood, dreading sleep due to anxiety/nightmares (30:19–31:51).
• Used language and demonstrated knowledge far beyond his years.

  “He would cry. He would say he wanted to go back home, meaning Hollywood—a place which he’d never been.” — Corinne (32:08)

• The memories came most intensely at night, resembling “living with someone with Alzheimer’s at sundown.”

Uncanny Details and Verification (33:44–54:13)

• Ryan’s statements included:

  • Lived on a street with “rock” (Marty lived on “Roxbury Drive”).
  • Danced on Broadway, acted with Mae West, drank with Rita Hayworth.
  • “Owned a big house with a swimming pool,” “worked for an agency,” “had three children,” “died when his heart exploded.”
  • Remembered a “green car,” hating cats, giving stepchildren his name, traveling to Paris by boat, etc.

  “Mommy, I can’t wait until I get big again and I can go to those big fancy boats, wear fancy clothes and dance with all the pretty ladies.” (54:12)

• Mom (Cindy) found a photo of a Hollywood extra in a Mae West film—Ryan identified this man as himself, later confirmed to be Marty Martin.

• None of these details were public or accessible online at the time.

• Consultation with Dr. Jim Tucker (University of Virginia, Division of Perceptual Studies):

  • Noted Ryan’s case was one of the most thoroughly documented, matching >55 facts from Marty’s life—many not public record (46:29–50:11).
  • Explained commonalities in child reincarnation cases (memories surface age 2–4, fade around 6–8, often connected to traumatic or abrupt deaths).

    “If a 4-year-old recalls the private life of a Hollywood agent who died decades earlier, where is that memory stored until then?” — Corinne (57:46)

• After Revisiting Marty’s Hollywood:

  • Ryan’s parents took him to key LA locations (as advised by other parents of kids with similar experiences).
  • After visiting, the nightmares began to fade and his memories stopped.

    “As if his soul just needed the closure, needed to recognize what happened to him.” — Corinne (55:59)

  • Today, as a young adult, Ryan recalls little but said he carries the lesson not to repeat Marty’s greed—aiming to live “without greed” (56:33).

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3. Philosophical & Emotional Themes

• Consciousness, closure, and the possibility of non-linear identity:
  • Discussion about the nature of past lives, universal consciousness ("Maybe consciousness is...something that flickers through different lifetimes" — 57:09), and the lasting effect of unresolved trauma/death.
• Empathy and healing across lives:
  • Ryan’s keen desire to live “better” than Marty, learning not to be greedy, was a profound note.
• Listener interaction on generational identity and coping with fading memories.
  • Joking about Gen Z, Millennials, and how “boomers fight back, Millennials just fold” (27:50–28:23).

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4. Listener Stories: Creepy Kids and Past Lives (59:24–69:22)

• “Creepy Kid: Three-Year-Old Recalls His Past Life in Hoboken, NJ”:
  • Eerie anecdotes of kids describing past jobs, family, & knowledge far beyond their years.
  • Example: a three-year-old describing carrying ice for years as a job to “pay the rent” (61:14), naming an unknown cousin “Murray,” and recalling addresses and songs from decades past (62:23–63:30).
• Another Listener Story:
  • Child recalling being attacked by an alligator in a prior life by the river in Georgia (“The river story,” 67:09–68:56), matching local geography and family history.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On taking paranormal dares:

  “So when we say don’t do stupid paranormal things. Sabrina, listen to yourself.” — Corinne (16:34)

• On the power of past life recall:

  “It’s one thing for a kid to have an active imagination...but this is happening night after night, for four full years.” — Corinne (35:55)

• On the impact of closure:

  “He stopped calling the Hammonds his new family. He stopped asking about his other mama. He stopped bringing up his death.” — Corinne (56:09)

• On lessons learned after “living twice”:

  “Ryan could feel how negatively that affected Marty and Marty’s soul...I need to live my life without greed. I’m not greedy.” — Corinne (56:44)

• On the afterlife and reincarnation:

  “Maybe the soul is bigger than just a single biography...It makes death seem a little less scary because it seems like it’s a transition, not an end.” — Corinne (57:09–58:19)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• Personal Spooky Updates & Edinburgh Haunting: 03:05–17:20
• Corinne’s House Haunting: 18:15–20:18
• Marty Martin’s Life & Introduction to Reincarnation Case: 20:18–30:04
• Ryan Hammons' Memories & Family Investigation: 30:04–39:14
• Identification & Research of Marty Martin: 41:11–51:12
• Facts Verified by Researchers: 51:12–54:13
• Resolution & Philosophical Reflection: 54:13–58:19
• Listener Past Life Stories: 59:24–69:22

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Conclusion & Takeaways

The episode weaves together the paranormal, personal growth, and the tantalizing possibility that death is not the end. Through Ryan Hammons’ story, the hosts highlight how specific, inexplicable memories could point to something more—a “transition, not an end”—and how empathy and healing might carry over between lives. The abundance of detailed, verified memories in Ryan’s case brings new weight to the study of reincarnation, while listener stories affirm the eerie, moving commonalities experienced by children worldwide.

Final Message:

“Death is scary, but it’s not the end...And I think that’s the message of this episode. And our podcast.” — Sabrina (69:22–69:29)

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Further Listening

• For more reincarnation listener tales, watch for a future “All Reincarnation” Encounters episode.
• Submit ghost or past life stories to 2girls1ghostpodcastmail.com.

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Transcript

[Corinne]

Vampire warriors in black leather and tattoos. Passionate love stories that pierce the heart. This keepsake collection. It's more than just an insider's look. It's a love letter to the fans, the world, the unforgettable characters that have made the Black Dagger Brotherhood a genre defining phenomenon.

[Sabrina]

Inside this all new 20th anniversary insider's guide, Ward reflects on the journey, sharing the behind the scenes moments, heartfelt memories, candid writing advice and insight into the challenges and triumphs of her long and legendary career. She also brings back the original brothers in a mix of classic content and never before seen material including Karine.

[Corinne]

You tell them a brand new novella, Happy Anniversary where you get to revisit Wrath and Beth as they reclaim the time lost between them. It's tender, it's erotic, it's emotional. There's also Brotherhood updates and some fan favorite features like Ask a Brother and Bella's Books.

[Sabrina]

Plus there are playlists, monthly horoscopes and more.

[Corinne]

And this keepsake collection is so special. I Mean Like a J.R. ward is the number one New York Times bestselling author of over 60 novels.

[Sabrina]

That is so many amazing. So welcome back to the world of the iconic number one New York Times best selling Black Dagger Brotherhood series. With millions of devoted readers across the globe, these unforgettable books have redefined paranormal romance and it is now time to celebrate two decades of the Brothers and author JR Ward is opening the door to to their world once more.

[Corinne]

Available in print and audiobook.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Hi everyone, it's JVN from Getting Better with Jonathan Van Ness this season we've been talking a lot about hope. Not the fluffy kind, but the grounded, gritty. We're actually doing something kind. One of the places I term for that is Americans United for Separation of Church and State. They're this quiet and mighty force that's been working to keep religion and government separate so all of us can live as ourselves and believe as we choose as long as we don't harm others. Church state separation touches so many of the things we care about. LGBTQI plus rights, marriage equality, reproductive freedom and abortion access. Americans United is out here being one of the vital voices of reason, fighting in the courts and in Congress and pushing back against Christian nationalist efforts to force everyone to live by one narrow set of beliefs. You can learn so much more about what AU does and how to support their work at AU.org gettingbetter your support, no matter the amount, helps to safeguard our freedoms. Americans United is fighting for freedom without favor and equality without exception. You can start a chapter in your hometown Today you can volunteer money or time. Get involved in your community. Learn [e-mail] better.

[Sabrina]

Very spooky.

[Corinne]

Hello. It's beginning to look a lot like Christmas everywhere you. Wow. That was angelic.

[Sabrina]

Thank you.

[Corinne]

Oh, my gosh, Sabrina, I just got so nervous. Did you become a singer? Like, no. Genuinely, I'm not. I'm not yanking your chain. That sounded really good.

[Sabrina]

Thank you. That's really nice. Now I'm really self conscious.

[Corinne]

I shouldn't have made a face so you would have kept going. That feels like suddenly you have like a born secret talent that I'm discovering.

[Sabrina]

This is the thing is I'm not a terrible singer, but I'm only good at certain things and then I'm not good at knowing when to come in.

[Corinne]

That's so funny.

[Sabrina]

I like that. I really don't.

[Corinne]

So you're like a comedy singer.

[Sabrina]

Sure.

[Corinne]

The new Bo Burnham.

[Sabrina]

I'm hilarious.

[Corinne]

And we are two girls, one ghost. Two girls, one ghost.

[Sabrina]

We are your ghostesses. I am Sabrina. I almost said you are Corinne. Anyway, that's Corinne. I'm Sabrina.

[Corinne]

You just got back from a lovely.

[Sabrina]

Spooky to share with you across the pond. So much to share with you, all of you. You wanna hear the story about how I got haunted in Edinburgh, Scotland?

[Corinne]

Yes. Which you already told on Patreon. And I feel like everyone was like, you were focused on telling the story, but I got to watch people's faces on the video as you were telling the story and the amount of people that were just like, jaw dropped or just like shaking their heads like, no, Sabrina, no.

[Sabrina]

Well, because as I will tell it, but there's so much of this that I'm like, ugh, Corinne would be so disappointed in me. Okay. So as context, I went to Scotland. Scotland.

[Corinne]

I was glad I wasn't there and.

[Sabrina]

It didn't happen to you. So I went to Edinburgh, Scotland, and it was amazing. So much fun. I do have to recommend the place that I stayed real quick because 33 Castle Terrace. You know, like when you travel places and you want to feel like you live there, but sometimes when you stay in a hotel, you don't feel like you live there.

[Corinne]

Yeah.

[Sabrina]

This place, I felt like I had my own apartment in Edinburgh.

[Corinne]

Oh, my gosh.

[Sabrina]

So nice that I was like, maybe I do want to live here. It was so nice.

[Corinne]

You used to talk about doing some time over there.

[Sabrina]

But right now in my life, after all the travel and like how busy we've been for the last, like, right. I'm like, I have not Spent a full week at home.

[Corinne]

Yeah.

[Sabrina]

Since before August, which is wild.

[Corinne]

Maybe you could do like a mini snowbird where it's like every year for the month of September or something.

[Sabrina]

Yeah.

[Corinne]

You go to scout.

[Sabrina]

I'd have to be able to take Leia with me. But anyway. Okay, so I obviously booked ghost tours, and I booked this one with the company, City of the Dead. I highly recommend it. It is one of the best ghost tours I've ever been on because they really focus on the ghost stories. They take you. It's so immersive, but it's so cinematic, too. And not cheesy cinematic, just the storytelling. Oh, the guide was next level.

[Corinne]

Oh, my gosh. Yeah, I love that because I do feel like we love going on ghost tours, but ghost tours can be a similar thing to just, like, seeking out a random psychic or something where it's just like.

[Sabrina]

Right. It could be cheesy or it could be phony. But this felt so. And it was clear. Shout out to Sarah, who was my tour guide. It's so clear that she was so immersed and curious and interested in. In Edinburgh history that she had gone and done her own research to bring in her own anecdotes into the stories. Anyway, that being said, I did the Double Dead tour, which you go through the Edinburgh vaults, which are infamously haunted, and then you Double decker. No, you just. You double it up. You double it up and you go over to the other most haunted place in Edinburgh, Greyfriars Kirkyard.

[Corinne]

Yeah. Which we did an episode on. And I felt we were friends a.

[Sabrina]

Few times and it haunted me.

[Corinne]

Yeah, that's where you went wrong.

[Sabrina]

That's where I. Where my grave mistake. Literally, grave mistakes.

Wow.

[Corinne]

It was a grave mistake today, Sabrina.

[Sabrina]

I just had my first sip of coffee on camera. You saw it happen. Let me take my second. Watch out, everyone. Okay, so then, yes, we went over to Grayfriars Kirk. Second, nothing really happened on the tour. When we went into the vaults, a girl had to leave. She got instantly got lightheaded and had to leave. They escorted her out. We go through the vaults, and I don't think we went to the same vaults that other tours go to because there's one vault that people kept being like, oh, my God, did you step inside the witch's circle? And we didn't go into a vault that had a witch's circle.

[Corinne]

Oh, yeah, no wonder. What is the witch's circle?

[Sabrina]

I think we've read a listener story about it before where there's, like, all these candles and you're not supposed to step inside.

[Corinne]

Oh, we read this recently, didn't we?

[Sabrina]

Yeah, I think. Yeah.

[Corinne]

Okay. It's coming back.

[Sabrina]

But so that we didn't, because there's a lot of different vaults in the Edinburgh vaults. Our tour went into, like, three of how many? I don't know. And then we walk over to Greyfriars Kirkyard, we do the whole thing. And interesting fact, Bloody Mackenzie's mausoleum is not the one that's haunted. The hauntings occurred once. Someone did break into bloody Mackenzie's mausoleum, but the one that is haunted is actually behind a locked gate that is now locked because of all the hauntings that were happening and how many people were trying to, like, go see it, instigate and.

[Corinne]

Yeah, yeah. Summon the dead.

[Sabrina]

That being said, bloody Mackenzie's mausoleum does cause hauntings, and I can attest to it personally. So we're walking around, we're getting all these great ghost stories, and we're wrapping up the tour. And our tour guide's like, oh, let's just go stop by bloody Mackenzie's mausoleum. There was another group finishing up. We go over there, and she's talking about it, and she goes, does anyone want to play a game? No hesitation. The word sure comes out of my mouth.

[Corinne]

And you're alone, too.

[Sabrina]

Like, I'm on this tour completely alone. I know no one. I'm staying in Edinburgh by myself. Yeah. I have to go to bed by myself, like, solo. And I'd say, sure. She looks at me and she's like, okay, come on up here. And she hands me a flashlight, and she says, shine this through the grates and look inside the mausoleum. And then repeat after me. The first word she says is, repeat bloody Mackenzie three times. And before I even say it, I, like, in my head, the first thought I have is, oh, God, Corinne's gonna be so mad at me. And then the second is, should I really be doing this? And my third thought is, well, it's too late. I'm ready here. I gotta give the people a show because there's, like, 25 other people on the tour.

[Corinne]

It feels awkward to back out.

[Sabrina]

Yeah, I'm not gonna be, like, chicken. I'm not chicken shit.

[Corinne]

I am.

[Sabrina]

Peer pressure is real. Actually, no one was pressuring me.

[Corinne]

But you're performing against real an audience, against the expectations you believed others had for you. These strangers, these strangers amongst you.

And so then you must please the people.

[Sabrina]

Of course. I'm a jester. I'm a performer. So in my head, I'm like, okay, this Is a dumb idea, but I have good intentions. So as I'm saying, I'm repeating it over and over. As I'm saying it, I'm in my head saying, I don't mean this. Haha. It's a joke. Like good intentions. No. Like no negative entities can come with me. You know, I'm setting my boundaries while I'm saying the things that are very much anti my boundaries. And I basically out loud say this poem that it's like a game that people do to invite bloody Mackenzie, his spirit to come out of the mausoleum and haunt you. It's like, show yourself. It literally is Bloody Mary, right with bloody Mackenzie. Nothing happens in the moment. Totally fine. The tour ends. Sarah's like, good luck, Sabrina. Then two girls come up to me and they're like, are you Sabrina from Two Girls, One Ghost? They had been on the tour with me the entire time. Shout out to the band Spanish Love songs. They were on tour.

[Corinne]

Oh my gosh.

[Sabrina]

And stopped in Edinburgh, did some spooky things, happened to be on the same tour. And I loved on campfire Stories. Everyone's like, those people were probably like, is that Sabrina from Two Girls, One Ghost? And then I went up to do the bloody Mackenzie.

[Corinne]

Get like possessed. Yeah, that's definitely Two Girls.

[Sabrina]

And I think I said to them, I was like, Corinne's gonna be so mad that I just did that.

[Corinne]

Oh my gosh. Because you're tempting fate.

[Sabrina]

And I tempted fate. So.

[Corinne]

And like at a place that has a reputation, it's not just like, oh, like some random New Hampshire cemetery that like five locals not to like diss on. No, like five locals had something happen.

[Sabrina]

This is like the dumbest thing I've ever done. Yes, paranormally, I've done a lot of other dumb things in life, but paranormally, yes, nothing happens. I'm totally fine. I'm walking home. It's now like 11:30 and again I'm like just setting intentions. Like, hey, shake it off. I did. I truly, outside of my hotel room shook it off. I was like, nothing is welcome. I'm protected by love and light. I set my intentions, all this stuff. Go into my hotel room, turn on Gilmore Girls. I'm good. I fall asleep again. Like I went to bed, like not thinking about it. So I go to sleep and I have a nightmare. And it's like truly a two second nightmare. I'm walking down the streets of what I presume are old Edinburgh, like the closest, and people are moving out of the way. And I get this feeling that down the Way, like, as people are clearing, there's someone standing, staring at me. And when I look, it's this, like, very, very unsettling, scary person. But their face is melty and they kind of look, like, haggard and bent over. And even though I can't see their eyes, they are directly staring into my.

[Corinne]

Soul, which is so creepy.

[Sabrina]

It's so unsettling. I wake up and I'm like, nope, didn't like that. Like, I out loud said, nope, didn't like that. Don't want. You're not welcome here. And it's 4:15 or 4:20, something like that. And I'm like, okay, that was weird. But just a bad dream. I flip over. I lay on my stomach, like, literally, like, flat on the bed. All of my limbs are together. I'm like a needle in a bed, facing the pillow, trying to fall back to sleep. I'm still very awake when I start to feel. Also, keep in mind, the covers are completely on me when I start to feel. Hold my coffee, please. When I start to feel, like, what are hands around my ankles pulling my legs apart. And my legs are actually moving apart, and I don't like it. Who would? And so I start to, like, try to move. I cannot move any part of my body. I am fully paralyzed. And this is the first time I've ever had sleep paralysis. So my first thought is, I'm having fucking sleep paralysis and don't like it. And so in my head, I'm saying, no, no, no, no. And I'm finally out loud able to verbally say no, and it stops. And then I instantly, like, slam my legs back together.

[Corinne]

I don't think I remember the detail if you slamming your legs back together.

[Sabrina]

Oh, yeah. Because I had been trying to, like, the energy of me saying, no, no, no was me also trying to close my legs.

[Corinne]

Yeah.

[Sabrina]

Because it does.

[Corinne]

So when it finally released you, you were able to.

[Sabrina]

Bam. Yeah. Thank God. I fully got up and I was like, no.

[Corinne]

The people in the room next to her are like, that girl traveling solo is crazy. Did you see her on the tour earlier? Which I did ask you on Campfire Stories, because I was like, oh, my gosh, this seems like an incubus.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Yeah.

[Corinne]

Like a sexual movement.

[Sabrina]

Yeah, it sounds like a sexual movement.

[Corinne]

But you said that it didn't feel that way.

[Sabrina]

It didn't feel that way. I genuinely think it was whatever it was. I don't necessarily think it was bloody MacKenzie. I think it was probably an entity at the cemetery that was like, you dumb, dumb girl. Let me show you what I can do. I think it was just like something it could do because I was laying on my stomach. So it's not like if. Cuz if I was laying on my back would I have seen something and that would have been enough. Oh God, I hate that. Ew. Right?

[Corinne]

Oh my gosh, it's so disturbing.

[Sabrina]

But I was laying on my stomach face down, so I couldn't see anything in the room. It's like, what if it was the.

[Corinne]

Guy with the melted face? It seems like it would be, but like if that's how he presented himself in the room physically there with you, who do you think it was?

[Sabrina]

I think it was just something from the cemetery. But here's the thing is I never had anything else happen for the rest of the trip. It was totally fine. Nothing else happened.

[Corinne]

And you stayed another night in that hotel, right?

[Sabrina]

I stayed multiple other nights, yeah. And I even was in Edinburgh on Halloween. Nothing happened. It was totally fine. But I understand how entities or even demonic encounters or people like the Smurl family or the Hinsdale house, like, I understand how these entities gain energy and don't even have to do much because just that one experience, which is probably no more than a two minute experience in total. I, every night before going to sleep, was scared to fall asleep because I didn't want that to happen again. And then it would happen. It would pop in my brain. I'd be like, no, you can't think about this before you're going to bed. Because like then it's gonna. Right? Because then you're. No, you're talking about it and you're.

[Corinne]

Summoning it and then it's hard to not just like repeat it.

[Sabrina]

It's hard.

[Corinne]

Like an intrusive thought.

[Sabrina]

Basically, yeah. And it's a scary, intrusive thought, but.

[Corinne]

It'S also so scary because it's like, yeah, it was a two minute experience, but that thing in two minutes proved that it could be in your dreams and it could be physically in your room with you and paralyze me. It was like, I have you everywhere. You can't escape. You're asleep, you're awake, I'm here with you.

[Sabrina]

It's not with me anymore.

[Corinne]

Yeah, thank God.

[Sabrina]

But yeah.

[Corinne]

So it's just a one night thing until the next person plays the game.

[Sabrina]

Yeah. So when we say don't do stupid paranormal things. Sabrina, listen to yourself.

[Corinne]

Do you judge me less for my reluctance to play paranormal games after?

[Sabrina]

Would I do it again? Yes.

[Corinne]

No. Oh my gosh.

[Sabrina]

There was like a 12 or 13 year old girl who I loved her because she dressed very like Blair Waldorf, but she had dragged her dad there and she was jealous that I got to do that game. And she's like, I want to do it now. And the tour guide was like, I don't feel comfortable allowing you to tag a child. Like, if you want to stay afterwards with your dad and do it, fine, but I can't but approve of that.

[Corinne]

Don't let your preteens and your teenagers summon the bloody Mackenzie or bloody Mackenzie. Jesus.

[Sabrina]

Scariest thing that's happened to me in a very, very long time.

[Corinne]

Yeah. So all the listeners can probably. I bet everyone's mouths were agape, just like everyone on campfire stories. They were like, what the fuck did you do?

[Sabrina]

My grave mistake at Grayfriars Kirkyard.

[Corinne]

Damn crazy. But otherwise you had a great trip.

[Sabrina]

It was amazing. I loved it. And then I went to York, which we recorded a whole episode while I was there. But that, that town is my favorite. And I don't love London.

[Corinne]

Yeah.

[Sabrina]

I love the sweatshirt I got from London.

[Corinne]

That's sweatshirt from each place.

[Sabrina]

I didn't from York, but I did from Edinburgh and I did from London.

[Corinne]

Nice. That's one of Sabrina's things. She buys a sweatshirt, it's a toxic treat. Everywhere she is that says the place.

[Sabrina]

It's like, I'll be in an airport, a layover.

[Corinne]

And I see the. They get me. I see the sweatshirt. Have you named it outside of the airport there? No, but are you behind the sweatshirt to indicate you've been.

[Sabrina]

I might need that. I might need it.

[Corinne]

I told you, I have a 60 second ghost story. It does not compare to that at all. But I think that there's a spirit afoot in my house.

[Sabrina]

We knew that.

[Corinne]

Yeah, but there's like a. Like a new one. Oh, I don't know. I just had two things that happened in the past couple days. Noah and I were playing with his farm truck and it has a bunch of like, if you press the different animals, they make different noises. If you press oh, McDonald, he sings, oh, McDonald, have farm. And if you press the smokestack on the tractor, it will start moving. And Noah knows to do all of that. And so we're like taking turns doing it. And it's between us and Noah's just like pressing on the animals and then something presses the smokestack and it starts going, oh, I thought too. And Noah just like stopped and looked at me like, how what? Like, are you seeing this? And then I didn't want to scare him. So it's just like. And I, like, touched old McDonald's so he'd start singing as the tractor went by. And then the next night when I was in Noah's room, he's sleeping on me, and I'm gonna, like, put him back in his crib the second the clock turns 3am the humidifier button keeps getting turned on and off, on and off.

[Sabrina]

Oh, I don't like that.

[Corinne]

And it just keeps happening, but it's not like. Not in a normal rhythm.

[Sabrina]

So it's not like a cadence. Yeah.

[Corinne]

Yes. Because at first I was like, oh, did I accidentally set a timer? Is there, like, something happening to it?

[Sabrina]

It's like pressing it and then deciding to press it again.

[Corinne]

Yeah. No rhyme or reason, but it was pressed on and off probably like eight or nine times. And then last night. This is not related to me, but last night I got a text message from my old roommate Jill from hr, who also has a young child. She said, I just walked into my living room to turn down the lights at 11pm and my daughter's DJ table started going off.

[Sabrina]

I love the idea of a DJ ghost. Just like a random DJ who's, like, going from house to house being like, let me lay down some beats.

[Corinne]

Well, I have, I think, kind of a feel good episode.

[Sabrina]

Oh, great. Way to start off December.

[Corinne]

Don't get possessed at Greyfriars Kirkyard like Sabrina, and join me for a more positive tale. Okay. Okay. Marty Martin was a guy with an American dream.

[Sabrina]

That's his full name?

[Corinne]

Marty Martin? Yeah. Well, it's his. It was like his actor name that he. I'll tell you his full legal name in a second. So Marty Martin, he was born May 19, 1903, as Morris Kalinsky in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. His parents had recently immigrated to the U.S. from Ukraine, and it was he and his two sisters. One of his sisters died, unfortunately in youth. But there they are in America being raised. And Marty has some big dreams. In the 1920s, Marty moved to New York City and made it on Broadway tap dancing on stage. So this guy is like, he's got talent. He already is on stage, but his dreams.

[Sabrina]

He's a performer.

[Corinne]

He's a performer.

[Sabrina]

So he would have done what I did.

[Corinne]

Yes.

[Sabrina]

Yeah.

[Corinne]

And I don't know what his sister did, but I love that his surviving sister moved with him to New York City.

[Sabrina]

Yeah, that's great.

[Corinne]

So it's like the little siblings go off from Philly to the big, big city to make it. So he makes it in Theater. But his dreams go beyond the theater, beyond tap dancing on Broadway, because Marty wants to be a movie star. And this is the era of old Hollywood. This is like the beginning of old Hollywood in films. So he eventually makes his way to Los Angeles, and while tap dancing was a dream that came to fruition, I don't know how easy, but, like, he made it. Being a Hollywood actor did not come so easily. So his acting career just really never took off. He mostly was an extra in all of the films.

[Sabrina]

It's difficult.

[Corinne]

It is difficult. But he still had this love for films. And so Marty was like, okay, I need to find a way to make it in Hollywood in another avenue other than being an actor. So he decided to open up his own talent agency, the Marty Martin Agency.

[Sabrina]

And after years of I'm such a sicko.

[Corinne]

Oh, you thought porn.

[Sabrina]

I thought smut films, yeah.

[Corinne]

Was porn a thing back then?

[Sabrina]

Yeah, for sure. It's always. Hasn't it always been like, I'm thinking about Jessica Lange and American Horror Stories. Is it whatever the circus one is and Freak show. Freak show. And she's like, it's 1930 Germany. Something wasn't cutting it anymore. And then she, like, does smut films, and they cut off her legs in them anyway. Yeah, no, he. He went talent agency.

[Corinne]

Yeah. So he decided to be an agent instead.

[Sabrina]

This is a heartwarming episode, Sabrina.

[Corinne]

So I think it did take him a few years to, like, kind of make his mark in the agency world, but he did soon become pretty successful and wealthy, and he was a man about town. You know, people knew who he was. Mm. So he ended up purchasing a large home on Roxbury Drive in Beverly Hills.

[Sabrina]

Ooh, fancy.

[Corinne]

He had this big swimming pool. So he spent his time swimming in his pool, heading to the beach, schmoozing people in Hollywood over some really good Chinese food that was, like, his preferred.

[Sabrina]

I love that. Over Chinese food.

[Corinne]

Yeah. And he also liked to travel, so he traveled a lot back to New York City, which is, I think, you know, where he still had a lot of friends and. And a life there. But he also sailed on the Queen Mary numerous times. I think it was four. Four times total to visit Paris when his sister was living in Paris. So he'd hop on the Queen Mary.

[Sabrina]

His life sounds dreamy, right?

[Corinne]

Old Hollywood. It really is.

[Sabrina]

Yeah.

[Corinne]

He had quite a few children, both biological and stepchildren, and I would like to say that he spent time with his children. I'm not so sure if that's true.

[Sabrina]

Okay.

[Corinne]

But he was a Guy who like romanticized life, Right.

[Sabrina]

I feel like he was tap dancing through life.

[Corinne]

He was tap dancing through life in a way. I feel like to make it in Hollywood, you kind of have to romanticize things and just like be okay with.

[Sabrina]

Constant rejection and just honestly make it through life. You kind of have to romanticize things totally.

[Corinne]

So yeah, he romanticized life. He definitely had this idea of like what his life could be like in Hollywood. And he also believed in love. He got married, then he got divorced, then he got married again. And then he got divorced and then he got married again and then he got divorced.

[Sabrina]

How many times?

[Corinne]

And then he got married again.

[Sabrina]

Oh my God.

[Corinne]

Four marriages. Four marriages. Cuz he was a hopeful guy, right. He had big dreams.

[Sabrina]

Didn't work out. It will work out a different time if.

[Corinne]

If you fail, try again in Hollywood. In romance, business, marriage, it's the same.

[Sabrina]

Marriage is business. We are. Yeah. Okay. If you are not sure what to get your family for Christmas, we have a last minute lifesaver truly year round.

[Corinne]

You could use this as like a, you know, Mother's Day, Father's day birthday.

[Sabrina]

I would be so happy to get this.

[Corinne]

Yes.

[Sabrina]

Someone who bought a new house.

[Corinne]

Aura frames. Aura frames are so beautiful. You can like choose your frame and what aesthetic you want and then you simply upload photos to this frame.

[Sabrina]

You download an app and then you can upload everything to the app. So easy.

[Corinne]

You can invite other people to the app too. So like, like last year we got this for my grandparents for Christmas and everyone has access and we just like upload all of the photos onto the frame.

[Sabrina]

It is really nice if you're like me and you just want to make a really cool gallery wall that kind of seems like it's alive. Oh, get a bunch of aura frames and then have them like moving photos. I love that.

[Corinne]

Yeah, that's very cool. For a limited time, you can save on the perfect gift by visiting auraframes.com to get 35 dol off Aura's best selling Carver mat frames. It's named number one by wire cutter. And you can do this by using the promo code TGOG at checkout. That's a U R A frames.com promo code TGOG and this deal is exclusive to listeners. And the frames sell out fast. Yes, they do. So order yours now to get in time for the holidays. Support the show by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions apply. Can we talk about one of our favorite brands, which is a beauty brand? It's Thrive Cosmetics and we can talk so much about the different products they have, but. But I also want to take a moment to just recognize how much they support communities around them. Yes, every time you use your favorite Thrive Cosmetics products, you're doing more than enhancing your glow. You're helping others shine too. With over $150 million in product and cash donations to over 600 giving partners, your purchase directly fuels real impact. And that's beauty with purpose.

[Sabrina]

Not only are they giving back, all of their products are also 100% vegan, cruelty free, and made with clean, skin loving ingredients that work with your skin, not against it. Meaning that what you're putting on your skin is not damaging your skin, which is so important to us. And all of their products are amazing. It's a win, win, win.

[Corinne]

And I do have to say, their Infinity waterproof eyeliner I have appreciated more and more as I've gotten older because I'm trying to not pull on my skin and create some wrinkles. But their eyeliner glides so smoothly that I don't have to tug to get the correct shape right.

[Sabrina]

Plus, they have eight shades, so you can mix it up, maximize your look with minimal effort. Go to thrivecosmetics.com TGOG for an exclusive offer of 20% off your first order. That's Thrive Cosmetics. C A U S E M E t I c s.com TGOG unfortunately for.

[Corinne]

Marty, at just 61 years old, after a battle with leukemia, Marty suffered a cerebral hemorrhage and he passed away. Oh. His legacy in old Hollywood left with him at his grave. Until one day when Marty woke up again.

Not in his grave, but in a little boy living in the 21st century.

[Sabrina]

Wait, so Marty is among us?

[Corinne]

Marty's among us. Marty was born in 2004.

[Sabrina]

Marty's a Gen Z.

[Corinne]

Mart is even Gen Z. What's the one below it? I guess it's Gen Z. You're right. You're right there.

[Sabrina]

Yeah. Gen Z. Yeah, yeah. Like, Alpha. Sounds scary.

[Corinne]

We should be scared of them.

[Sabrina]

Millennials are like, we're becoming such, like, old. We're becoming boomers.

[Corinne]

No, no, no. Because boomers are the ones like, no offense to boomers. We know a lot of boomers. Our parents are boomers and stuff, but I feel like boomers are the ones that are like millennials. Like, you know, they find a problem with the other generations. Millennials are the generation that fold and we're just, like, afraid of.

[Sabrina]

Do whatever you want us to do.

[Corinne]

Just, like, just leave us alone.

[Sabrina]

We won't answer our Doors. And we're going to get bullied by other generations.

[Corinne]

You want to say that we're idiots. Okay, we're idiots. Now stop talking.

[Sabrina]

We're pretty mean.

[Corinne]

Yeah, I know. I feel like we just take it. Millennials take it. We don't fight for ourselves. We've been through too much. Okay, so Marty Martin was born now Once more in 2004, is Ryan Hammonds, a young boy from Oklahoma who, around age 4, started telling his mom that he believed he used to be someone else.

[Sabrina]

We haven't done a good reincarnation episode in so long.

[Corinne]

I know. And I had this slated for sometime next year, but I was like, I gotta bring it. I gotta bring it up.

[Sabrina]

This is a good into the holidays holiday season.

[Corinne]

Yeah, it is, because I have a.

[Sabrina]

Scary story next week.

[Corinne]

Okay.

But in a way, this is kind of like a miracle, you know?

[Sabrina]

Like, it is.

[Corinne]

It does feel good.

[Sabrina]

It is.

[Corinne]

There's something Christmassy about it. Okay. So he said that he believed he was someone else. Someone with a glamorous life in old Hollywood, with a different family and a death that he remembered vividly.

[Sabrina]

Oh.

[Corinne]

This is one of the world's most widely studied modern cases of potential reincarnation memory. And no matter what your belief system is, Ryan's story has a way of leaving people feeling befuddled. He remembers a lot of facts, and I'm actually going to read a good amount of them. So this one's for the skeptics. Let us know how you feel. How do you. Yeah, how do you explain this? No, but I wrote this one's for the skeptics. One for people looking for belief in something more, or just to experience the joy and wonder of getting lost in a story that feels so miraculous and so otherworldly.

[Sabrina]

My coffee just tasted like Chinese food. And I think it's because, like, I mentally am now thinking about Chinese food that I.

[Corinne]

That feels like a superpower, like a secret tower.

[Sabrina]

But I didn't like it. Like, I didn't want my coffee to taste like Chinese food.

[Corinne]

So Ryan Hammond was a happy, ordinary kid growing up in Oklahoma. Nothing unusual in the beginning of his life. No Hollywood connections, no obsession with old movies, nothing that could possibly indicate the direction in which Ryan's memories would start to unfold.

[Sabrina]

Plus, Marty Martin's not famous by any means. Like, I've never heard of Marty Martin before this. So it's not like, oh, he saw James Dean on TV and was like, oh, that was me in a past life.

[Corinne]

Exactly.

[Sabrina]

Yeah.

[Corinne]

He was an extra in, like, a Couple movies, a tap dancer on the. And then otherwise, he just was an agent.

[Sabrina]

Right.

[Corinne]

You know, like, he wasn't. There's not films about this guy.

[Sabrina]

Right.

[Corinne]

So Ryan's parents were middle class. They were religious. They were very grounded. It seemed by the description of them that they were most likely not listeners of two Girls, One Ghost, nor seeking out paranormal stories like we share. But just after turning 4 years old, Ryan began waking up in the middle of the night with these really intense nightmares. Each night, he would start to, like, dread going to sleep. It was really tough for him. And then he'd wake up just, like, crying and telling his mom he has a secret to tell her, but she can't tell anyone. And he's like, you can't even tell dad. Okay. She's like, okay. And Ryan says, I think I used to be somebody else. And he's how old?

[Sabrina]

He's four. Which is also the age that people. A lot of children have these memories.

[Corinne]

Yeah. Every night, Ryan started to tell his mom the stories. More and more memories that he had, memories from his past. And his mom said that it basically felt like living with someone with Alzheimer's, like when Sundowner turns, because she said every night around bath time and bedtime, he suddenly would just, like. It wasn't like a trance. It was just like he was overwhelmed and overcome with all these new memories. It was like a whole nother life was flooding him.

[Sabrina]

Well, it is wild. I mean, could you imagine being conscious of your past life, but being stuck in the body of a child where you don't have autonomy, you don't have the ability to be who you think you are.

[Corinne]

Right. And where you were used to living, Los Angeles or New York City, now you're in Oklahoma. Like, even your. Your scenery around you is just so different from what you were used to. Yeah. So very scary. And so as he would take a bath and his mom would, like, get him ready for bed, this was something that she would openly and, like, willingly participate in. She would ask him about his memories. They would talk about it. It seemed to help him. And other people might think that this is just like a childhood imagination. Right. Like, he's really getting creative with these stories. He's gonna be a great storyteller. But for Ryan's mom, she was like, I knew right away that this was different because his language, like, his vocabulary would change when he was telling these stories. He would cry. He would say he wanted to go back home, meaning Hollywood. A place which he'd never been, by the way. Right. And then he kept adding really specific details. And this went on for years. Like four years.

[Sabrina]

Till he was eight.

[Corinne]

Till he was eight. Around eight.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Yeah.

[Sabrina]

Okay, wait. Sorry. I know that the story will continue, but do you think he will meet one of his past wives from his past life in this life, and it will be, like, their chance. Their chance to, like, actually fully.

[Corinne]

Oh, interesting.

[Sabrina]

Be together forever.

[Corinne]

I don't know.

[Sabrina]

It will work this time, maybe.

[Corinne]

Or part of me was like, well, like what? It was a horrible marriage. I don't want them to have to like.

[Sabrina]

Well, he had four to pick from one of them.

[Corinne]

None of them were good. I don't know. I don't want to wish that I don't know. Details about their true romantic relationships. I won't wish that upon Ryan, who.

[Sabrina]

I wish him happiness is only.

[Corinne]

How old is he now? 20, 21.

[Sabrina]

Congratulations. Here's a shot. Glug.

Let's just send a bottle of whiskey to Ryan Hammonds.

[Corinne]

Okay. So this is going on for years. He keeps recalling these memories. His mom is writing them down, but he just keeps, like, coming up with more and more specific memories. So a few things he said. The Hollywood home he asked to return to. It had a street name. He remembered it had the word rock in it, which, if you remember, Marty Martin lived on Roxbury Drive. Wow. He talked about dancing on Broadway in the 1920s. He spoke about traveling the world. He said he owned a big house with a swimming pool. He remembered his time working in the film industry, acting alongside Mae West.

[Sabrina]

So it's like, literally every detail.

[Corinne]

Drinking with Rita Hayworth.

[Sabrina]

What a flex. Drinking with Rita Hayworth.

[Corinne]

Right. And then there were a couple memories where it was, like, talking about that Mary girl, which was like, Marilyn Monroe, and about how, like, you, no one could get close to her because she was so popular. Everyone was talk to her.

[Sabrina]

And, like, who was she really? Could you really get close to the real Marilyn?

[Corinne]

Right. And then he was trying to talk to her one time, and he, like, nearly got beat up, and it was just like all this other stuff. Then he talked about his other mama. He talked about the three children he had. He said when he died, his heart exploded, which, you know, like, his heart didn't actually explode, but in a way, like, when you die, his brain had an explosion, basically, that stabbed his heart. And these were just some of the random bits that he shared. I'll share a lot more soon. But this was just so far beyond a child's imagination creating and crafting a story. Because as he told these Memories. His mom was like, he was so grief filled. Like, it was not just like some random account. Like you could feel that his soul was feeling it. And so Ryan's parents are not sure what to do. And Ryan's dad, by the way, is a police officer. And he was like, I have investigated and interrogated so many people. Right. In my line of work. And he was like, obviously, Ryan's my kid, so I want to believe him.

[Sabrina]

So I can tell my son is telling the truth.

[Corinne]

Right? Yeah. So he's like, you know, like you want to believe your kid by default. He's like. But the way that he tells it, his body language, the way his eyes are shifting, like all that stuff that you would learn to look for, he was like, it just totally seemed truthful the whole time.

[Sabrina]

Well, because it's one thing too for a kid to have an active imagination and spin a story like a one time story, but this is happening night after night. This is happening for four full years. It's more.

[Corinne]

It is. And I also feel like it goes beyond. I feel like if you're encouraging a kid or sometimes they can very quickly start spinning tails and it gets wild and wild, but it doesn't seem to be that for Ryan. It's like if he doesn't remember something, he'll be like, I don't know. And then like maybe a year later, like one small extra detail will come to him. Like, it just feels so authentic.

[Sabrina]

This is wild.

[Corinne]

I know.

[Sabrina]

This reminds me so much of my favorite listener story we've ever read from.

[Corinne]

We met her.

[Sabrina]

I know. Literally we were fangirling. We were like.

Is it Elsie or Elise?

[Corinne]

I think it's Elise.

[Sabrina]

I think it's Elise 2.

[Corinne]

But it was a really amazing past life story that a listener, a mother sent in about her daughter.

[Sabrina]

Oh, yeah, Elise. And we read it in multiple episodes. Let's say we read it. We read it first on encounters 137. We also read it on a Patreon bonus. And I think we read it again because we were like, wait, we love this. It's so good.

[Corinne]

It's so good.

[Sabrina]

Yeah.

[Corinne]

Okay, so Cindy, who is Ryan's mom, her name's Cindy. She doesn't entirely know what to do for Ryan because he just, night after night, feels plagued by these memories. She's listening to him, she's conversating with him. She's trying, but she feels like she needs to do something more. And so she starts taking out books on old Hollywood and will sit with Ryan and flip through the pages and try to learn about old Hollywood. And maybe this will do something for his soul or satiate something in him that he needs. One day while reading a book about old Hollywood. It was specifically about the Mae west film. Night after Night, Cindy is flipping through black and white photos. Actors from the 1930s and 40s who are not household names today. Most people wouldn't know the majority of the actors in this film.

[Sabrina]

Yeah.

[Corinne]

And then Ryan suddenly and excitedly exclaimed, I found me.

[Sabrina]

Oh, my God.

[Corinne]

He points to a man who is not one of the Hollywood actors. In fact, this man is not named in the book. The book lists him as a Hollywood extra. So now they have a photo, but they don't have the name. Cause Ryan couldn't remember his name.

[Sabrina]

Well, especially cause he didn't go by his actual birth name either, you know.

[Corinne]

Right. And I have. If you're watching on YouTube, I have some, like, photos. I showed this photo earlier in the episode. But like, look at him cheesing. Aw, just a happy guy. He's so sweet. I watched. There was like an NBC special on him. They did like some media circuits.

[Sabrina]

I am so curious. Cause I'm just thinking about as a teenager, like, how embarrassed was he by the story or how much did he not want, like. Because I'm sure he got to a point in life where he didn't remember those things anymore.

[Corinne]

He did.

[Sabrina]

Yeah. But he is. His story has been shared with so many people and it's been so researched. Like, was there a phase of life where he was just like, stop talking about it, Mom.

[Corinne]

I don't know. I feel like it depends on your own personality and like the upbringing you had.

[Sabrina]

You either embrace it or you.

[Corinne]

Because I feel like my upbringing, it never. It would have always been like, yeah, that was so freaking cool. But I also grew up in a haunted home. That's true. Ever present conversation.

[Sabrina]

But it's hard because. And I think this is a tough thing that people have with reincarnation just generally. It's this idea that then your own life isn't really your own. And that, like, you aren't your own individual soul that you. Which I believe in universal consciousness. Which also, if anyone's watching the new, you should watch it. The new Apple show. Plubarous.

[Corinne]

Yes. Brian and I are watching.

[Sabrina]

It's so Pluribus. Pluribus.

[Corinne]

Pluribus. Whatever.

[Sabrina]

You made it really hard to say.

[Corinne]

It's from the guy who created Breaking Bad in Better Call Saul. The woman from Better Call Saul.

[Sabrina]

Yeah. Is the main actress.

[Corinne]

Main actress. And it's so good. It's about this, like, alien disease. Yes. Which, like, creates a universal consciousness where everyone is fully connected, but there's certain individuals, just like, a handful, like 10, that don't get affected across the entire world, and one of them ends up being the most cynical people in the world. And, like, now she has to find a way to save humanity.

[Sabrina]

Yeah. It's so good. But it is this idea of, like, so they are all basically universal consciousness. So there's no individuality. There's no making decisions for yourself.

[Corinne]

Right. And that's kind of like one of the themes, because she had not. It's not going to spoil anything, but, like, she, plus a couple of the other people that weren't affected have these conversations in the show where, like, some of them are like, well, why is this a bad cause? She's like, we have to save humanity. And they're like, why is this a bad thing? There's no war. No one's fighting hungry. Like, everyone works together. Like, we finally have world peace.

[Sabrina]

Right.

[Corinne]

But she's like, but at what expense?

[Sabrina]

Right. We've lost all humans like persons. But so, like, with this, I wonder how much it would influence your life in terms of decisions you make for yourself or how you feel about yourself.

[Corinne]

I'm glad you asked that, because I think it's like the last line I wrote in this episode. You'll hear a small answer to that.

[Sabrina]

Okay.

[Corinne]

Okay. So Ryan finds himself, the man listed as a Hollywood extra. So Cindy's like, we have the biggest clue we've had so far. I need to do some real digging. So Cindy goes into research mode. She's looking for clues from the book. She's got the information that Ryan has told her, and soon she learns the real name of this man. His name is Marty Martin, a former movie extra turned Hollywood agent. He danced in the film Night After Night, which is why he was in that book. Wow. He worked on Broadway, he traveled to Paris, and later he became a powerful studio agent. So many facts about Marty Martin's life matched perfectly with details that Ryan shared from his past.

[Sabrina]

Right. That's the wild part, is because it could have been like, oh, I. Oh, that's me. And then the details didn't match up. And then it's like, okay, moving on. But no, it's like, everything, right?

[Corinne]

Like the Roxbury. Like, oh, I lived on a street that had rock in it, in a.

[Sabrina]

Big house with a pool, like his family. The deep. Yeah. Literally everything.

[Corinne]

Everything. Most of the details Ryan recalled because there were. There were Dozens of facts that he, over the years had shared were not even on the Internet at the time. Using other researchers and experts and stuff and doing some real digging, they found old documents that weren't readily available anywhere on the Internet.

[Sabrina]

Right.

[Corinne]

And realized that everything was matching.

[Sabrina]

That's amazing.

[Corinne]

Yeah. It's time to lay here because it's cozy season. Ah, the best time. Wool coats, cashmere sweaters. Just so cozy. Feel like you're in a Christmas movie. I love it. And I always love to give my wardrobe a little refresh with some of those staples every year. And Quince is the easiest way to do this. Quince offers quality essentials. They feel really cozy, they look refined, but they also won't blow your budget because Quint partners directly with top tier ethical factories to cut out the middlemen. And then they deliver the luxury quality pieces at half the price of similar brands to you. So you can upgrade your wardrobe. You can get something that feels smart and stylish and effortless. And me and my mom, because, you know, we have some winter weddings coming up and we needed like a little shawl, we just got a cashmere shawl to go over our shoulders. Find your fall staples at quinte. Go to quince.com TGOG for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com TGOG to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com TGOG this episode is sponsored by BetterHelp.

[Sabrina]

And we love therapy. And the holidays are a time of traditions. Some people in their family have mental illness.

[Corinne]

Enter a Caribbean Sabrina. Yes.

[Sabrina]

But it's the time to also reflect on what family means to you, what tradition means to you, and also take the time to rewrite those traditions and make them your own. You can take time for yourself during the holidays, which can be a very joyful but also sometimes hectic and lonely time. So it's helpful to have someone to speak to, someone to talk to, someone to work through things with. And that is what BetterHelp offers you.

[Corinne]

They have over 30,000 therapists. They are one of the world's largest online therapy platforms, having served over 5 million people globally. And we've used it for years. Years.

[Sabrina]

And I feel like one thing that I have found in the last couple of years around the holidays is especially when I was, like going through my divorce and struggling, it was really hard to be around the extended family because I didn't know how to talk about it. And I felt embarrassed or ashamed. But I was able to work with my therapist on how to, how to prepare myself for those moments without it getting too overwhelming and how to enjoy it because it is supposed to be a time of joy.

[Corinne]

Right? And this December, you start a new tradition by taking care of you. Our listeners get 10% [e-mail] TGOG that's better. H E L p.com TGOG so the Hammonds family eventually sought help from Dr. Jim Tucker, the University of Virginia psychiatrist known for studying children with past life memories. And I think that we've talked about him before because he is one of the really big names. So I think in some of the modern day cases, we've covered a few in the past. I think that he also was working with them.

[Sabrina]

He's the reincarnation guy.

[Corinne]

He's the reincarnation guy. So he trained under the late Dr. Ian Stevenson, who spent decades cataloging thousands of cases worldwide. And at the University of Virginia where Dr. Jim Tucker is working, he works in the division of Perceptual Studies. And they're studying past life memories. And what makes it so unique is that in these studies, these cases that they study are not to prove anything but to methodically document what can't be.

[Sabrina]

Explained away, which is in some way proving something, right? Because you're proving that what we know isn't all that we know.

[Corinne]

Yeah, but I like the approach too, because they're not like, you can't come at someone who's like, well, I'm not trying to prove reincarnation. I'm just literally listing all of the facts that can't be explained and collecting data that way to group together what that will equate to in the future when we eventually crack the code.

[Sabrina]

Who knows? I don't know.

[Corinne]

So in the over 2,500 cases studied at UVA, here are some of the key characteristics that pop up time and time again in these past life cases. Memories begin around ages 2 to 4. So 4 for Ryan, memories fade around age 6 to 7. It was around 8. For Ryan, children recall traumatic deaths more frequently. Names, places, occupations, and family structures are remembered with surprising detail. Many children express grief for their other family, which definitely happened. He was talking a lot about his other mama. And verified correspondences often match people who died abruptly. So for Ryan, all of this was true for him.

[Sabrina]

That's interesting. Like an abrupt death means that you're more likely to recall your past life in your future life because you're you don't have closure. Which is similar to, like, why people say ghosts exist like, this lingering, unfinished.

[Corinne]

Business until 50 years later, they get plucked and planted into a little boy in Oklahoma, 2004.

[Sabrina]

Yeah.

[Corinne]

I mean, like, think about it. Marty Martin could have just been haunting a place for 50 years.

[Sabrina]

Right. Or in just, like, lost in the ether.

[Corinne]

Yeah.

[Sabrina]

Which also is very sad.

[Corinne]

It is very sad.

[Sabrina]

Did I tell you my new theory about residual hauntings? No. So the other day, I don't even know. I was just driving, and I was thinking, and, like, my brain randomly went back to this moment from, like, when I was, like, 14. And I was like, what if. Because I just thought about it. If someone's in that room that, like, where it happened, there's a haunting that happens because it was. It's a traumatic thing that I was thinking about, which I've done a lot of therapy on, so I don't think about it often anymore. But, like, what if a residual haunting is when the living person recalls that memory? The, like, energy that was left there.

[Corinne]

Is, like, triggered, comes alive again because it's still attached to you.

[Sabrina]

Right.

[Corinne]

Oh, that's so interesting. It's very creepy.

[Sabrina]

Well, I'm not saying it is or isn't. I'm just. It's a hypothesis out there in the world for you.

[Corinne]

I like that. Here's the thing. Everything could be true, and nothing could be true.

[Sabrina]

We could be not real figments of your imagination. You're actually crazy.

[Corinne]

All right, so Dr. Tucker, he's brought in. He meets Ryan. He interviews Ryan's family, and he investigates all of the claims that Ryan's making. So I'm gonna go through, like, a bunch more of the things that he said, but, like, for example, some of the things that were verified. Ryan said he danced in New York. Marty performed on Broadway. Ryan said he had a big house with a pool. Marty had a stately Beverly Hills home. Okay. Bragging the street rock, Roxbury Drive.

[Sabrina]

Yeah.

[Corinne]

Ryan stated he had three sons. He actually had three kids. A daughter, and then, I think, two sons.

[Sabrina]

Does that say something about Marty? He always wanted all sons.

[Corinne]

Yeah, but then, like, in the whole investigation, they actually realized that Ryan had actually said he had three kids. He never said sons, but his own parents had just assumed sons and had repeated that he had three sons. So Ryan actually didn't say that. And then, plus, he had a bunch of step kids because he was married a million times.

[Sabrina]

Yeah.

[Corinne]

Ryan talked about traveling to Paris. Marty traveled to Paris on the Queen Mary. Ryan said he died when his heart exploded, he had a cerebral hemorrhage. Hemorrhage, which stopped his heart, and he died. Ryan said he worked for people and made lots of money and that he worked for an agency. Marty became a successful Hollywood agent representing old Hollywood stars. Ryan said he died age 61, which.

[Sabrina]

He died at 61.

[Corinne]

Marty's death certificate said that he died at age 59, but he actually, they got in contact with Marty Martin's daughter. She said, oh, the death certificate is wrong. My father died at age 61.

[Sabrina]

Chills.

[Corinne]

Right? So Ryan's memory.

[Sabrina]

Wait, so they even talked to Marty?

[Corinne]

Against historical records, but they also talked to Marty's daughter. Yeah.

[Sabrina]

Did Marty's daughter ever meet Ryan?

[Corinne]

I actually have no idea.

[Sabrina]

I don't know if I'd want to. Like, as the daughter, I'd be like, no, that. Like, that's his life. Like, I want him to have his own life.

[Corinne]

Yeah.

[Sabrina]

I'd be curious.

[Corinne]

But I know. And also, I'm thinking, like, she.

[Sabrina]

She was.

[Corinne]

He was such a young, young kid, and she was probably older.

[Sabrina]

Yeah.

[Corinne]

Much older.

[Sabrina]

Yeah.

[Corinne]

I'm including some screenshots of some of the notes that. I don't know if his mom took these notes or if the researcher took these notes, but there's just, like, a. A list of some of the things that Ryan shared. I'm gonna Rapid fire 47 facts.

[Sabrina]

Should have been 61.

[Corinne]

Okay. Actually, I'm gonna not read the ones that I've already read.

[Sabrina]

Okay. Okay.

[Corinne]

He said he was very rich. He said there was a brick wall at his house. He said he brought coloring books home for his kids. He said that he had some boys that weren't his, but he gave them his name. So I think, like, his last name. When they got remarried, he had trouble with his oldest stepdaughter. She wouldn't listen. She didn't respect him.

Daughters, they leave an impact on you, the afterlife. His mother had curly brown hair. He bought his daughter a dog when she was about 6. She did not like the dog. He hated cats.

[Sabrina]

Okay. Rude. Marty.

[Corinne]

He had a green car. He didn't let anyone else drive the green car. He drove a nice black car, too. The agency he ran changed people's names. Just like creating.

[Sabrina]

Right. Even his own name.

[Corinne]

Stage names. He tap danced on stage. The stage was in New York City. He saw the world on big boats. He danced with. With pretty ladies. He. In Chinatown a lot.

[Sabrina]

He loved Chinese food.

[Corinne]

Yeah. He got skin burns in Hollywood. I don't know what that means.

[Sabrina]

Is that, like, I feel like A cosmetic thing where they would.

[Corinne]

Let's see.

[Sabrina]

In researching something for crimes of. I learned that people used to, like, extract arsenic and put it on their faces because it, like, lightens their skin.

[Corinne]

Going on back then.

[Sabrina]

Yeah.

[Corinne]

Yikes. Skin burns in old Hollywood were a hazard for actors and stunt performers, basically from pyrotechnics and dangerous makeup. Which makes sense when you think about, like, the wizard of Oz and things like that, where everyone's just, like, constantly being poisoned.

[Sabrina]

Right.

[Corinne]

He played piano. He took his girlfriends to the ocean. He had girlfriends.

[Sabrina]

I love that girlfriend.

[Corinne]

He had many girlfriends. He knew Rita Hayworth. She made iced drinks. Bread was his favorite food. He had a pretty big sunglass collection. He was a smoker. He also had many affairs. He never had any problems getting ladies. He liked to watch surfers on the beach. He owned guns. He didn't have a TV when he was a little boy. He had a radio. First. He hated FDR because he was a Democrat. You go to a room with numbers on the door before dying. Like a hospital room.

[Sabrina]

Oh, okay. I thought, like, before dying.

[Corinne]

Yeah, before dying.

[Sabrina]

For some reason, I thought, like, your, like, spirit starts, like, maybe.

[Corinne]

Who knows?

[Sabrina]

Like a hallway.

[Corinne]

He said, quote, I'm not five. I'm closer to 105. Which, if you did the math, when he said that. When he said, I'm closer to 105. Yeah. If Marty Martin had been alive, he would have just turned 106. He died at age 61.

[Sabrina]

Whoa.

[Corinne]

And then a couple of my favorite others. There were a couple more. He and George made films together. And he was friends with a cowboy guy that was in Night After Night. This cowboy did cigarette commercials. There was a scene in the movie, in Night After Night where there was a closet full of guns. And Night After Night was about a guy who had been a boxer. The cowboy friend had a horse. He remembers a lot about his cowboy friend. His cowboy friend did a whole bunch of Westerns. He believed Teddy Roosevelt was the best president.

Mayo was the guy that used to pay him to do movies.

[Sabrina]

I thought he was going to talk about mayonnaise.

[Corinne]

I know. Mayo. Mayo, I don't know. He said, quote, mommy, I can't wait until I get big again and I can go to those big fancy boats, wear fancy clothes and dance with all the pretty ladies.

[Sabrina]

Sorry to disappoint you. I know life's not as magical.

[Corinne]

And he also tried to teach his mom a dance that resembled a waltz.

[Sabrina]

Oh, my God. I hope when Ryan gets married, he and his mom do the waltz as Their father, daughter or mother, son dance.

[Corinne]

Oh, my God. Wouldn't that be amazing?

[Sabrina]

That would be so cute.

[Corinne]

So Dr. Tucker, in working with Ryan to collect all of his memories and then compare them with any written records of Marty Martin's life, they were able. And of course, like, there's plenty of memories that he has that there's no, like, actual physical proof or. Yeah. Record of. But it revealed that over 55 details that Ryan provided were accurate, specific matched Marty's life. And the majority of this information was not publicly available anywhere. Damn. This case would become one of Tucker's. Dr. Tucker's most compelling and widely cited investigations. And perhaps the most heartbreaking but beautiful part of the story is Ryan's reactions once his memories were validated. So Ryan's mother, Cindy, in doing a lot of her research to try to help Ryan when he was younger and he was struggling, she found other people online who had similar things happen to their kids, other parents of kids who believed that they lived another life.

[Sabrina]

Right.

[Corinne]

And a lot of these parents suggested, like, if you have the means to travel to the places that your kid is talking about, it does help bring them closure. It appears. So they did that. They traveled during the investigation when they were working with Dr. Tucker. They traveled to Hollywood and to places that related to Marty Martin's life. And after this trip, memories started to fade a bit. And by age 9, all of the anxiety, all of the nightmares, the night terrors, the sundowners memories seemed to stop. As if his soul just needed the closure, needed to recognize what happened to him, needed to be recognized as Marty Martin. And now that that happened, Ryan could finally settle into the new life that he had. Into life as Ryan Hammonds. He stopped calling the Hammonds his new family.

[Sabrina]

He stopped asking, what an honor as a mother. Finally, I'm not the new family. I'm finally just Mom.

[Corinne]

He stopped asking about his other mama. He stopped bringing up his death. And today Ryan Hammond said he barely remembers any of it. But what is super amazing, and this kind of goes back to what you were talking about or asking. Ryan said he could feel things from Marty's life that Marty did not want to repeat.

[Sabrina]

Oh, that's so beautiful.

[Corinne]

So Marty was very greedy. He did a lot of time at work and schmoozing and, like, really focused on himself and his career. He had no time for his family and for his children.

[Sabrina]

And he stares.

[Corinne]

Yes. Yeah. So Ryan could feel how negatively that affected Marty and Marty's soul. And so Ryan was like, I feel this so strongly. And he Said this when I think he was like seven or eight years old, he was like, I need to live my life without greed. I'm not greedy. So he's correcting the things that Marty potentially regretted most in his own life. A chance to do things differently.

[Sabrina]

That reminds me and Jacob Elardi, who is like everyone's crush right now because Frankenstein and euphoria. But he just seems like a good person. He did an interview recently where he was asked, like, what's one thing you wish about people? And he said, I wish people felt more shame. Like, he thinks the world would be a better place if people really had to feel the shame of their actions.

[Corinne]

It's because the Internet doesn't make you face yourself, Right?

[Sabrina]

Yeah. So I was like, oh, I really love you don't have to own your own, like, which is like similar ideology there. Don't be greedy and feel more shitty.

[Corinne]

So Ryan Hammond's case, Marty Martin's case has left a lasting impact on this research and the belief in past lives. Does a past life exist within a person or does it simply exist all around? If a 4 year old recalls the private life of a Hollywood agent who died decades earlier, where is that memory stored until then? Is consciousness local to the brain or is it something like a radio signal and the brain is just the receiver? Maybe the soul is bigger than just a single biography. Maybe consciousness is something ancient and vast, something that flickers through different lifetimes.

[Sabrina]

Agreed.

[Corinne]

Cases like Ryan's are captivating. It makes death seem a little less scary because it seems like it's a transition, not an end. And we all have the opportunity to live again, to try again, to dream again, to love again, to make mistakes.

[Sabrina]

Again, to learn again.

[Corinne]

And that is the reincarnation case of Ryan Hammonds. A boy with the memories of an old Hollywood agent.

[Sabrina]

Marty Martin and Broadway tap dancer.

[Corinne]

Yeah.

[Sabrina]

Wow, that's a beautiful story.

[Corinne]

And it's so recent.

[Sabrina]

Yeah. Like, we literally have Ryan amongst us.

[Corinne]

Yeah.

[Sabrina]

When he just turned 21.

[Corinne]

Ryan, where you at? Actually let me do a quick Instagram search. I was just like, should I look in our inbox? Like, what if, what if we have Ryan Hammond? He doesn't listen.

[Sabrina]

Just because he's never emailed us.

[Corinne]

Yeah. I was like, well, this would be a case that you would email us, Right. Hey, I remembered my past life.

[Sabrina]

Okay. Well, we do have so many listener stories about past lives that we should do an encounter that is all reincarnated.

[Corinne]

Oh, we should. Like, truly.

[Sabrina]

It was so hard to pick because there are so many But I did pick one. This is called Creepy Kid. Three Year Old Recalls his Past Life in Hoboken, New Jersey.

[Corinne]

That's great.

[Sabrina]

Hi Corinne, Sabrina. I'm such a big fan and I've been listening forever and have been a self proclaimed ghost girl since elementary school. Hopefully you have a Creepy Kid episode coming up that you can use because this is a story of some interesting snippets of a past life that my son has been bringing up over the past year or so. So my son just turned three in August. Let's call him E. He has a pretty unique name, so I'd like to keep it private. I've always said he's an old soul. The only song that could get him down was American pie by Don McLean. I would sing the entire version and in 8 minutes and 16 seconds he'd be out.

Wow. While we look nearly identical, E has curly dirty blonde hair and bright blue eyes. And my husband and I have dark hair and dark eyes. So he looks more like my grandfather's side of the family. He has always been chatty, but around two and a half he started to bring up some interesting, to say the least, memories that did not belong to him. So here are a couple snippets. We were eating dinner at my aunt's house. We're a tight knit family from New Jersey and we spent a lot of time together. But here's how the convo went. My son said, this is my family. I said, yep, we're all here. This is your family. My son said, except for my daughter. And I said, who's your daughter? My son said, amanda. She has yellow hair and she lives in the sky. So one day I'm giving him bath. This is another snippet. And he starts to complain of his back pain. I keep asking him about it, like, did he fall at daycare? Is something wrong? I'm looking for bruises, anything. And I ask, why does your back hurt? He looks at me, goes, lifting all that ice.

I ask, what? When were you lifting ice? For years, that's how we paid the rent.

[Corinne]

Years of hard labor. It follows you into the next step. How terrible.

[Sabrina]

So it looks like young men used to carry ice to apartments. Before modern day luxury of refrigerators, they would literally carry slabs of ice to kitchens. Another snippet. We were swimming at a resort pool for what felt like hours. And I'm begging him to get out. So I said, come on, let's get out and dry up. And he looks at me and says, yes, let's play Bing. Cool. Swish. I'm like, what?

And he says, the game. And I'm like, okay, who taught you that game? He looks at me and says, murray at the shop. We play all the time.

[Corinne]

I love Murray at the shop. I love how it's just like, some kids are like. Like, in the case of Ryan, where it's like he's kind of pained and confused by remembering this stuff, but this kid is just like, Murray, of course.

[Sabrina]

Right? Like, he really just. It almost feels like he's not even recalling this is a past life. He's like, no, no. Like, my past life is my current life. Yeah, yeah.

[Corinne]

You don't remember Murray from the shop? And all my heart labor with the ice. What the hell?

[Sabrina]

So I ask, who is Murray? And my son says, your cousin. So I look it up, and it seems like Bincole Swish is a version of Bincole, a card game played in the 40s and 50s. Swish is a faster hand. I'm trying to teach myself on YouTube before he forgets so I can play with him.

[Corinne]

What? That is the coolest thing ever.

[Sabrina]

I know.

[Corinne]

Think about that. Like, to say that you got to play a card game with your son's past life.

[Sabrina]

Right? And it's. It's not a game that any child would know. I've never heard of that before.

[Corinne]

You should have him teach you.

[Sabrina]

So I'm not aware of any cousin named Murray, but I have my sister looking into it. Well, this part also makes me wonder if she was a part of his past life in some way, too.

[Corinne]

Right? Like, it's lineage wise. It doesn't fit with, like, their current yeah. Line.

[Sabrina]

But we were getting coffee one morning, and we're waiting in line, and the song Papa Loves Mambo comes on, and he starts swaying and says, I love this song. I used to dance to this in college.

Now we're huge fans of Sesame Street. The song goes, can you tell me how to get to Sesame Street?

[Corinne]

And one, can you tell me how to get how to get to Sesame Street?

[Sabrina]

So one day I overhear him playing and singing, can you tell me how to get to 11 Jackson Street? And I go, that's not our address, bud. He goes, yes, I live in a small red house, so we have an address. He doesn't even know his own address, but he recalls his address from his past life. We don't have a Jackson street in our town. Another snippet. Most recently, we were at a brewery, and our group brought a speaker and iPhone to jam. There were a few other kids, and they Were all requesting songs to sing and dance to. And he comes up to me and asks for his song and starts to sing. Should all acquaintance be forgot and never brought to mind should all acquaintance be forgot in days of auld long sign we were all shocked. We put it on. My cousin put on the first one she found on Spotify, which was by Ingrid Michelson, and he quickly said, no, not this one. He wanted the version by Guy Lombardo. My family stares in shock as he knew every single word. I don't have video of him at the brewery. We were so in shock and didn't even think to tape it. However, I asked him to sing it again later that night, and the video is attached. I've started doing research into my family history with the help of my sister. And I know that my grandfather had a cousin named Amanda who he was very close to, and Amanda was like the name of the daughter. They lived in Hoboken, New Jersey, where there is a Jackson Street. Since he had mentioned we're cousins, it may be a viable lead. So is it possible that my son is my grandfather's uncle? We're planning to take him to Hoboken to see if anything comes up. But, yeah, I really wanted to share my creepy kids story. Love the pods. See you on the other side, Justine.

[Corinne]

Oh, my God.

[Sabrina]

And this was sent to us in October. So it's a recent. It's an ongoing past life.

[Corinne]

Yeah.

[Sabrina]

Experience.

[Corinne]

I'm so curious, too, if you did go to any, like, historian from Hoboken, if you could, like, figure out in, like, the 40s and 50s, the shop that Murray worked at. I know, because, like, it probably isn't that anymore, but it was like, swanky restaurant or something.

[Sabrina]

Right. Because there's no ice shops now. Like, not like that. Yeah.

[Corinne]

But, like, where was that? Where was the ice shop?

[Sabrina]

Hoboken does, I feel like, have a lot of its heritage still in place. Like, they have, like, old signs and, like, old painting on the bricks. That doesn't apply to what the stores are now, but they kind of, like, pay homage to the past. Okay, so I'm gonna play so cool. I'll play a couple seconds of this video. We're not gonna put the video in because to not show the face of the kid.

[Corinne]

Yeah.

[Sabrina]

He'S eating a snack while singing.

[Corinne]

Oh, my gosh. This is so amazing. I feel like he provided so many details, so many. Like, what I love with this is you feel like you can get a sense of his personality before.

[Sabrina]

Oh, absolutely.

[Corinne]

Like, that's coming through 100%. So cool. God, I hope. I hope Noah has some memories.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Please.

[Sabrina]

Okay, I'm just gonna read one more. It's a short one.

[Corinne]

Okay. Yeah. Cause I love this too much.

[Sabrina]

Okay. This is also a similar. It's from Jess. It's a creepy kid with a past life story. Hey, ladies. Furry Princess and Sven. I have no idea if you read my previous email as I'm not listening in order. We do email you when we read your story, but I'm currently at work listening to episode 191 and I work at Amazon overnights. As many know, that can be painfully boring. So I listen to y' all people walking by seeing everything from me laughing to bawling my eyes out with your stories. Okay, but now my story or my daughter's story. My daughter Nova, who will be eight on January 23rd, that was 2023, so. But she used to tell everyone the river story. Now, I know kids tell weird stories, but she literally told this to everyone for a few years. And it started when she was only about two and a half years old and really started to talk in small sentences. My sister caught on about her telling everyone. So she asked me about it and I told her I thought it was just a dream she had. But then my sister was like, let's sit her down. So we decided to sit her down for more details. So this is the story from Nova's perspective from two and a half years old, completely unprompted. I was walking by the river and I fell in. Then the alligator came out and chomped, Chomp, chomped me away. Here are the list of questions we asked her about the story and her answers. We said, was this a dream? No, Mommy really happened. When did it happen? Before I came to you. How did you come to Mommy? I was born. Can you describe the river? There were lots of trees, and the ocean was on the other side of the river. I asked, who was with you? And Nova said, my sister. I asked if her sister helped, and Nova said she tried, but the water was.

I asked what was the weather like? She said, sunny and hot. Ladies, my dad is from a huge family in southeast Georgia. It's all swampland and there are lots of gators. So I'm curious.

[Corinne]

That's what I was just thinking. I was like, okay. Somewhere between, like, Georgia and North Carolina.

[Sabrina]

Yeah. So I'm curious if she's a reincarnated family member. She did stop telling the story around five years old. And now when asked, she doesn't remember the story or any of its details.

[Corinne]

Wow.

[Sabrina]

I just had another baby in April and I had a baby girl. So I'm dying to find out if she says anything similar or if my oldest will have more details since the baby is here. I love you ladies and wanted to thank you for giving us all a safe space to share our stories. If I can't see you on this side, but I hope to, then I'll see you on the other side. Love, Jess.

[Corinne]

I mean, again, like a traumatic death, right? And you just recall your death in the next life. Chomp, chomp, Chomp me away. Chomp. And the. Like the ocean, like the water going it like, not to be extra grim, but like it reminds me of like the alligator, like when they do like the barrel roll.

[Sabrina]

Right. Like, or they're.

[Corinne]

The water does feel like it's like.

[Sabrina]

Yeah.

[Corinne]

All around you because you're. You're being.

[Sabrina]

It's like dangerous.

[Corinne]

It's the death wall. Yeah.

[Sabrina]

What a terrible way to go.

[Corinne]

I know.

[Sabrina]

I mean, death is scary, but it's not the end.

[Corinne]

And I think that's not the end.

[Sabrina]

The message of this episode.

[Corinne]

Yeah.

[Sabrina]

And our podcast.

And Merry holidays. And if you have ghost stories, please email them to us@2girls1ghost podcastmail.com and if.

[Corinne]

You'Re an alien deep within the void and you want to come visit, abduct me. Beam Sabrina up. Just say, would you like to play a game?

[Sabrina]

Just say, sure, sure, sure. Why not fuck around and find out which is what I'm all about. And Corinne is not.

[Corinne]

Yeah, boundaries, safety.

[Sabrina]

But join us on Patreon if you want episodes one week early and ad free. Plus bonus episodes, plus campfire stories, plus witch class, plus book club, plus stickers and holiday cards.

[Corinne]

Oh, my gosh. Yeah, our holiday cards are coming out soon.

[Sabrina]

They should be in the mail by the time this comes out.

[Corinne]

Yes, true.

[Sabrina]

We love you all. Thank you to our editor, Jamie and thank you to our producer, Emma. We're so grateful. Couldn't do it without all of you. And thank you to all of you for listening.

[Corinne]

We love you and we will see you on the other side.

[Sabrina]

Very spooky.

[Corinne]

Limu Emu. And Doug, here we have the Limu.

[Sabrina]

Emu in its natural habitat, helping people.

[Corinne]

Customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual.

[Sabrina]

Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug.

[Corinne]

Limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us.

[Sabrina]

Cut the camera.

[Corinne]

They see us.

[Jonathan Van Ness]

Only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty.

[Sabrina]

Liberty. Liberty. Liberty Savings.

[Corinne]

Very unwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company and affiliates excludes Massachusetts.