Episode 364 - Ghost Town of South Pass City, Wyoming | Women’s Suffrage and a Female Serial Killer?

Summary

Two Girls One Ghost – Episode 364 Summary

Episode Title: Ghost Town of South Pass City, Wyoming | Women’s Suffrage and a Female Serial Killer?
Release Date: March 15, 2026
Hosts: Corinne Vien & Sabrina Deana-Roga
Theme: The intersection of wild west history, women’s suffrage, true crime, and hauntings in South Pass City, Wyoming.

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Episode Overview

In this richly textured episode, Corinne and Sabrina celebrate Women’s History Month by diving into the history and hauntings of South Pass City, Wyoming—a former gold rush town with a pivotal role in women’s suffrage and an alleged female serial killer. The hosts blend thorough research, tangents about women’s magic, and listener stories to explore how a rough mining settlement became ground zero for women’s voting rights—and possibly murder.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Personal Updates and Women’s History Month (01:19–09:16)

• Corinne reveals her pregnancy (a boy, due in July), describing the struggles she’s faced compared to her earlier pregnancy.
  • “My first pregnancy was so much easier with Noah...this time I couldn’t keep water or food down for weeks. I threw up 10 plus times a day. I still throw up five times a week.” — Corinne (06:13–06:41)
• Both hosts reflect on the magic and toughness of women, tying it to the broader theme of Women’s History Month.
  • “Women are magical and we love them and we want to honor them.” — Sabrina (08:52)

2. History of South Pass City: From Gateway to Ghost Town (09:45–18:55)

• Geographic significance: South Pass was a crucial, relatively gentle crossing in the Rockies for westbound travelers and gold-seekers.
• Gold rush origins:
  • Gold discovered in the 1860s sparked a temporary boom: population peaked around 4,000. Built-up with saloons, hotels, and mining operations, notably the Carissa Mine.
  • Harsh conditions, poor yields, and the lure of richer strikes elsewhere led to a sharp population decline.
  • “By 1872, the population had dropped to only a few hundred people.” — Corinne (18:01)

3. Political Progress: Birthplace of Women’s Suffrage (18:55–29:37)

• South Pass City as a landmark in women’s rights:
  • Wyoming (then a territory) granted women the vote and office-holding rights in December 1869, thanks to a suffrage bill introduced by local mine owner and saloon keeper William Bright.
  • The motivations are debated (e.g., drawing more women to the area), but the effect was groundbreaking.
  • “Wyoming became the first US territory to grant women the right to vote and hold office...Wyoming was called the first place on God’s green earth...to be the land of the free because of this.” — Corinne (22:07–23:14)
  • In 1890, Wyoming threatened not to join the Union unless women kept the vote.
• The legend of Esther Hobart Morris:
  • Appointed as the nation’s first female justice of the peace on February 14, 1870.
  • Faced immediate sexism—her predecessor refused to hand over the docket, so she jailed him.
    • “Esther did not argue with him. Instead, she locked him up in Sweetwater County Jail.” — Corinne (25:17)
  • Presided over 26–34 cases that year.
  • Remembered as “the terror of all rogues.”
  • Honored with a bronze statue at Wyoming’s Capitol.

4. Ghost Town Preservation and Modern Day (29:37–31:58)

• In 1966, South Pass was preserved as a state park, protecting 23 buildings and over 30,000 artifacts.
• Still open for visitors: restored structures, gold panning, and living history experiences.

5. Hauntings, True Crime, and Lore (31:58–46:59)

• The shadow of violence and death:
  • The unsolved 1875 murder of George McCombey in the Exchange Saloon; locals claim his spirit lingers.
  • Each year, murder mystery dinner parties reenact the crime in hopes (maybe humorously) of solving it.
• The chilling legend of Polly Bartlett, “The Murderess of Slaughterhouse Gulch”:
  • Possibly Wyoming’s first serial killer—allegedly poisoned 22 travelers for their gold and valuables with her father’s help.
  • Motif similar to Lavinia Fisher, another notorious female serial killer.
  • Eventually caught after the disappearance of a well-connected victim, then quickly killed in jail. Justice Esther Morris did not charge the avenger.
  • “Equality, equal rights, female rage.” — Sabrina, quipping about the presence of a female serial killer (37:15)
• Hauntings today:
  • Sparse but persistent claims: shadowy figures, feelings of being watched, and strange energies.
  • The town is mostly a tourist/historic site now, with limited opportunity for in-depth paranormal investigation.

6. Listener Story: Generational Women, Protection, and the Supernatural (56:03–63:34)

• Listener “Kay” shares several heartwarming and paranormal stories featuring the women in her family:
  • Great-grandmother’s ghost wakes a cousin to save him from a fire (59:01)
  • Multiple family members dream of a deceased aunt in a beautiful garden, providing comfort (59:29)
  • The spirit of her husband’s grandmother comforting Kay during a difficult night with her daughter (61:27)
• Both hosts are moved, emphasizing women’s strength as caretakers across generations.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Ghost Towns and Women’s Progress:

• “This is the town of South Pass City, Wyoming, in 1869...a place where the gold rush collided with politics and somehow sparked a movement that changed the country and women’s rights.” — Corinne (10:02)
• “She was known for not taking shit from any man. She was also 6ft tall, which I love, because that means, like, the majority of men...were literally looking up at her...” — Corinne (25:48)

Comedic Interlude on “Tits Out for the Girls”:

• “Take your tits out.” — Sabrina (10:51)
• “Your nipple...we’ll send you your best fitting lipstick. It’s a subscription box.” — Sabrina & Corinne (11:11)

On Hauntings:

• “Anything can become haunted...a town that has a lot of mining accidents, violence, illness, harsh conditions, and death...can certainly become haunted.” — Corinne (31:57)
• “Maybe a lot of the ghosts here abandoned the town as well, and...maybe it’s just spirits passing through.” — Corinne (46:36)

Listener Story (on afterlife caretaking):

• “I then heard a voice in my head, clear as day, say, you are such a good mom. Go back to sleep. Now I’ve got her. Instantly my daughter settled down and fell peacefully back to sleep.” — Kay (62:19)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Pregnancy Announcement & Women’s History Month: 03:06 – 09:16
• South Pass City Gold Rush & Decline: 12:06 – 18:55
• Wyoming Women’s Suffrage History: 21:54 – 29:37
• Esther Hobart Morris’s Legacy: 24:56 – 28:53
• Preservation as a Ghost Town: 29:37 – 31:58
• Saloon Murder & Murder Mystery Dinners: 31:57 – 34:28
• Polly Bartlett – Female Serial Killer: 37:04 – 44:42
• Discussion of Modern Hauntings: 45:00 – 46:59
• Listener Stories – Generational Women Watching Over Family: 56:03 – 63:34

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Flow, Language, and Tone

The episode retains Two Girls One Ghost’s signature blend of humor, intimacy, empathy, and feminist spirit. Banter about bodies, pregnancy, and women’s friendship is interwoven with meticulously researched history and chilling tales. The hosts use irreverence and warmth to bring levity to darkness (“Tits out for the girls!”), but pivot seamlessly to respect and awe for women’s achievements both historic and personal.

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Final Thoughts

Episode 364 is a perfect Two Girls One Ghost episode: an accessible entry into underappreciated women’s history, an exploration of the spooky and the tragic, and a celebration of women’s endurance, rage, and tenderness. Listeners come away with new heroes (Esther Hobart Morris), new ghosts to hunt, and heartfelt reminders of generational love.

Transcript

[A]

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[A]

Shop Vertuo up [e-mail]. Very spooky.

[B]

Hello.

[A]

Hi. I have bejazzled bejeweled pants.

[B]

Bejeweled. So lovely. Bejeweled.

[A]

And they are bringing me so much joy. Like, I love that, like, such a simple thing. Levi's. They remind me of this pair of jeans. They were my favorite pants I had in like eighth grade.

[B]

Oh, I thought. Oh, yeah. Okay, continue.

[A]

And what would you think?

[B]

You had these pair of pants that like held your butt so nice. Oh, weren't they Levi's when they were like wedgie jeans?

[A]

Yeah, probably Levi's.

[B]

Yeah. Wait, when that was my favorite pair of your pants on your butt and body.

[A]

When was this?

[B]

A few years ago. Wow. Maybe when we were in college or. No, post college.

[A]

You never told me this in person.

[B]

I definitely did.

[A]

No, you. I don't think. I think I would remember if you complimented how cute my butt was. You've never told me my butt was cute.

[B]

I think I did 10 years ago. And you just forgot? I.

[A]

Trust me, I would never forget. I will never forget this moment.

[B]

Okay, well, bring your wedgie jeans.

[A]

I gotta bring my wedgie Pete because

[B]

those were looking good, Sabrina.

[A]

Thanks.

[B]

I for sure said stuff then, but

[A]

I think, I mean, I blacked out a lot of my life, so.

[B]

Yeah, there was lots of brunches, other stuff happening. That's true. You know, but just another Saturday that'll compliment your butt.

[A]

Now. We don't need drinks for butt compliments now. Now we can do it on a couch. Talking about ghosts.

[B]

Well, I love them. They're very cute.

[A]

Thank you. I'm really happy with my choice to spend money to bring joy.

[B]

Oh, the actual jean is a lot softer than I thought it Was going to be, too. Yeah.

[A]

No, like, these are, like, a very comfortable pant.

[B]

You need to start linking stuff on your shop. My. I made you get one because I always ask where you get your clothes.

[A]

I'll link them.

[B]

Link them. Maybe this is two girls, one ghost.

[A]

Two girls, one ghost. We are your ghostesses. That is Corinne. Hello, I'm Sabrina.

[B]

Happy Women's History Month.

[A]

We love women.

[B]

I'm pregnant.

[A]

Women are crazy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

That's wild.

[A]

And for people who are like, wait, why isn't Sabrina reacting? It's because I've known for forever.

[B]

Yeah. And like, two seconds before we recorded, you said, when are you gonna tell people?

[A]

I said, now.

[B]

This episode. I don't know. I guess now.

[A]

I guess now.

[B]

A lot of people have known how,

[A]

like, just intuitively, just.

[B]

No, like, I think, like, occasionally I'll respond to, like, a DM or something. And, like, I've told a couple people, just random posters. Like, it's come up in conversation, and people are like, oh, my God. I was gonna. Like, people indicated that they had an inclination, but we're never gonna say anything.

[A]

That's nice of them because for months. So you told me in the beginning of November, right after you found out. Cause you were like, we have to get ahead on the podcast. I'm not waiting. We're just gonna. I'm just telling you. Well, you were actually. Okay, context. I'm in London. It's in November. It was one week that I was taking campfire stories off.

[B]

I found out on Halloween. I took my pregnancy test on Halloween. But.

[A]

So you're like, I have to cancel campfire stories. I have to go to the hospital. Like, there's something wrong. And I was like, bitch. Like, what's going on? You're like, I'll tell you when you get back. I'm like, no, no, no, no. Are you pregnant? Like, what other reason are you going to get. Yeah.

[B]

You literally said, are you pregnant? Yeah.

[A]

And then you called me and you're like, I was gonna wait until you're back. I was like, what? You think I wasn't gonna react to you having to go to the hospital? Like, I'm just like, okay, good luck, girlfriend.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But, yeah, so I've known.

[B]

And other people have known, too. You know, there were signs. Yeah. Well, me sipping on water that was suddenly cut with, like, orange juice to try to get it down just to,

[A]

like, be able to drink it.

[B]

The rapid weight gain, the burping. Oh, my.

[A]

Actually, we can play the clip, guys.

[B]

So unattractive. But yeah, it's my classic sign because

[A]

we had Jamie cut it for us. Because I think the second I burped

[B]

on camera, Jamie was like, she's pregnant.

[A]

So there's a clip and we'll play it right now.

[B]

Bless. Sorry, Jamie. This is only the beginning of this. Jamie's gonna know. She's gonna know.

[A]

She's gonna know.

[B]

Jamie, I'm pregnant.

[A]

You have to cut this.

[B]

Surprise, surprise. If you didn't know from all my recent belches,

[A]

I like that you looked right into the camera for that one. After you had told me there was someone who commented, like on a YouTube video, being like, sabrina's pregnant or she's about to be. And I was like, you're picking up on the wrong energy here.

[B]

Oh, my God. You know who knew I was pregnant from reading the Universe was Litha, our resident tarot reader. And friend.

[A]

And witch.

[B]

And witch. She was doing a reading for you, Sabrina. And then she was like, your sister is pregnant. No, not your sister. You know what? Never mind. Yeah, just forget that I said anything.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then like a week later, I was like, you know something? She was like, I wasn't gonna say anything.

[A]

Yeah, it's crazy.

[B]

Yeah. Women are amazing.

[A]

Corinne is literally building a. Creating life inside her womb at this moment, this pregnancy.

[B]

I will say I feel for. For pregnant people now. My first pregnancy was so much easier with Noah.

[A]

Like, now I understand too, which is a lot more.

[B]

Yeah, but with Noah, I threw up. Like, I had really bad reflux with Noah, but I threw up, like maybe a total of eight times. Total. That, like, whole pregnancy, you've been really sick this time. This time I had to go on medicine. Cause I couldn't keep water or food down for weeks. I threw up 10 plus times a day. I still threw up five times a week, which at first. I'm 20 weeks pregnant.

[A]

Do you want to tell people gender or.

[B]

No, it's a boy. Okay. I thought it was going to be a girl because I was so sad. No way.

[A]

Like, because it was so different from your pregnancy with Noah, you thought. Thought it was a girl?

[B]

Yeah, it was barely alive for a while.

[A]

And you probably couldn't tell because she was still showing up, still recording.

[B]

No, people could tell.

[A]

No, but you were.

[B]

Lots of people could tell.

[A]

You were still doing your. Your job, you were researching and heavy breathing.

[B]

Holding myself like this on the couch, taking tiny sips of things, taking breaks that no one saw because of our editor. To go throw up.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, it's a boy. I'm due July 15th but I'm guessing July 4th. What do you guys think?

[A]

Everybody, New thing.

[B]

Place your bet. Venmo. Me. $1. You'll never see it again.

[A]

Just stealing everyone's money.

[B]

You pay for my meds.

[A]

Yeah. It will be put to good use, but, yeah. Congrats.

[B]

Thanks.

[A]

Excited for another spooky kid, creepy kid to join the family?

[B]

I'm excited to not be pregnant. I want to be grateful that I am pregnant and I've gotten halfway. Yeah. But at the same time, it's like, oh, my God, it is tough on your body.

[A]

You're halfway already. That's wild.

[B]

Yeah. Well, by the time this comes out,

[A]

damn Right now I'm a few weeks shy. Oh.

[B]

I'm 19 weeks today.

[A]

Oh, my gosh.

[B]

So when does this come out?

[A]

Next week. Mark. No, this is, like, almost a month from now.

[B]

I'm more than halfway. How I sure look it.

[A]

You popped really quickly.

[B]

Really quickly. Like, actually, like, week eight.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I could start doing it.

[A]

It's funny, though, because I feel like in a lot of the podcast recordings, you've been doing this, which I don't know if that was intentional or if that's just a comfort thing. Cause this is comfortable.

[B]

Well, you did it in an episode, and I realized how comfortable it would be and that also it would cover my stomach. So then I started doing it.

[A]

You're welcome. But it was because of you, Regina George.

[B]

I clocked it once.

[A]

Wore flip flops and cargo jeans, but

[B]

now I'm beyond it. Cause there's only two pairs of pants that f. And my shirts are like, I'm constantly. Instead of. I just have to say it and let it loose. Instead of constantly wearing the same sweatshirt and picking at it.

[A]

Yeah. Anyhow, women are magical, and we love them and we want to honor them.

[B]

Yeah. So I picked out a story connected to women's history. Hell, yeah. For Women's History Month. Excuse me. Bless.

[A]

There go the burps. Oh, God.

[B]

I'm pregnant. That can be the first, like, one that I episode.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

There's no, like, delicate, lovely way that I've ever announced my pregnancies.

[A]

You were. The last time you announced. It was, like, beautiful. I cried.

[B]

Yeah. But then a lot of people made comments about how I said, went on tour, got sent home, got knocked up. Like, it wasn't like, I called you a.

[A]

Like, immediately.

[B]

Yeah. You told me I was a slut. Like, there was nothing like, oh, my God.

[A]

Not magical.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But that's also not who you are.

[B]

Yeah. I'm rugged. Moving on deep in The Wind River Mountains of Wyoming. Sits a town frozen in time.

[A]

Oh, a ghost town.

[B]

It's a ghost town. Fun. It's a ghost town by definition.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But it's also something else. It is a place where the gold rush collided with politics and somehow sparked a movement that changed the country and. And women's rights.

[A]

Oh, hell yeah.

[B]

Okay. This is the town of South Pass city, Wyoming, in 1869. While the rest of the country was still debating if women should have the right to vote, a group of rowdy miners and visionary saloon keepers decided that here in the Wild west, it was time for a change. It was time for some equality.

[A]

Hell, yeah. In the Wild West.

[B]

Yeah. What a place for this to happen. But in the Wild west, making progress is not easy. Right. And a lot of that usually came with bloodshed, a lot of resistance. But that did not stop the people of South Pass City. And the events that took place would make South Pass, Wyoming, go down in history. So happy Women's History Month, everyone.

[A]

Take your tits out.

[B]

Yeah. Show us.

[A]

Celebrate with your tits.

[B]

Your nipple. Zoom in so much that I can just. It looks like a color block. A color swatch.

[A]

Please don't send us pictures of your

[B]

nipple square of your nipple color. And we'll change our.

[A]

And we'll send you your. Your best fitting lipstick.

[B]

It's a subscription box.

[A]

We analyze your nipple color, and we put together nail polish, lipstick, blush, all based on your nipple color, Right?

[B]

Yeah. You get these pants, but the jewels

[A]

are the color of your nipples.

[B]

Tits out for the girls.

[A]

Yeah. Please don't send as pictures of your nipples.

[B]

No. Spook yourself. Yeah. You.

[A]

Wait.

[B]

You want that?

[A]

You want people to fill our inbox?

[B]

I don't want a boy nipple. I'd take a girl nipple. Okay, that sounds wrong. It just doesn't feel like an attack. If a girl sends you a nipple, it just feels like sharing. We're just in the bathroom sharing our nipple colors. If a man sends me his nipple that feels intrusive, that is a threat.

[A]

Yeah. You'll come for him.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, no, I won't.

[A]

You'll, like, attack him.

[B]

Oh,

[A]

okay.

[B]

Inappropriate episode.

[A]

We're women.

[B]

We're.

[A]

We're moving. Women's progress. We're progressing. No, we're not.

[B]

I think we're regressing right now. Okay. Back to South Pass, Wyoming. Okay. So before South Pass City was a town, South Pass was a route through one of the most important natural gateways across the Rocky Mountains.

[A]

The gateway to hell.

[B]

It was actually a gateway across the Continental Divide. It Was like a gentle. It wasn't really gentle, but like in comparison to a lot of other ways to cross the, the Continental Divide and the Rocky Mountains, this was like a go to route. It was a major route for people who were immigrating west to Oregon and California and on the Mormon trails and all of that. And this was like basically the time of the Gold rush. So a lot of people were traveling west.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So when gold was discovered nearby this pass in the 1860s, people were already very familiar with the area and how to reach it. Most people had already been like traveling through the area. So there was a little bit of a boom here because it was already. Yeah, there was gold and like people were already familiar with the area.

[A]

Men and their nipples came flocking.

[B]

They did. And then they opened up saloons and the boys were on the tables, showed off their table. A few other miners.

[A]

Wait, I've actually. You doing that dance move made me think of the episode I'm researching for the march Patreon bonus. It's also this amazing women's history like story, but it's also a story about sex with a ghost. But the woman, Ida Craddock, she was a sex radical. She was like giving sex advice and like columns, doing columns all about it. But during the World's Fair, there was someone doing belly dancing.

[B]

Ooh, belly dancing is so cool.

[A]

And people were flabbergasted and so offended by it because it was so sexual and idiocratic. Stood up for it.

[B]

Well, it's, it's. I guess it's sexual. Cause it's really hard to do. It's like.

[A]

Yeah, it was like the gyrating of the hips. I mean, this is also like the 1800s, 1900s, so.

[B]

Yeah, well. And they're showing their torso.

[A]

Any skin.

[B]

God forbid a belly button is shown. God forbid we all have them. Yeah. Not Kyle XY though. True.

[A]

A very real character in our world that we personally know.

[B]

Yeah. Our good friend Kyle XY does not have a belly button. While traces of gold had been found in Sweetwater Creek as early as 1842, this area, while it was a good place to pass and like, viewed as one of the gentler routes across the continental dividend, it was still a bit treacherous and dangerous for most people to like truly stop and spend time in. So it wasn't until 1866, when the US troops arrived to guard the telegraph lines and the pony express stations, which was like the mail system via horseback, that this area became deemed as like safe enough for a full blown gold rush. In the summer of 1867, Mormon pioneer Lewis Robinson and his associate Joshua Terry discovered gold bearing quartz. And word of this discovery spread like wildfire. And this is what sparked the full on movement to the area because there were like, you know, hints that things had been found. Still not a great area to truly stop in. But then it's like, oh, someone is striking the jackpot here. Everyone come running in. This same year, the Carissa, or Carissa mine, which was discovered by HS Riedall. So all men so far. But don't worry, I'm getting to the ladies. It becomes the heart of the mining operation. It's the district's largest and longest operating mine. But it has a history that we're not going to get into of like, legal battles, clashes with Native American communities, near constant equipment failures. All of this stuff that's getting in the way.

[A]

Drama, drama.

[B]

Miners, the work conditions as we know. I don't think there was one mine that actually had decent conditions. Like it was frankly terrifying. And here in this mine, they were using only one candle per day to light their way through the tunnels. Suffocating darkness. Apparently that is what an article said. And you got to believe everything that's on the Internet.

[A]

Is that a long burning candle? My God.

[B]

The longest. 12ft tall, single candle, slow burn. But people did continue to emigrate west in search for gold. And so many did stop in this area. By the following year, south pass had over 2,000 residents. And this is kind of like, it depends on what article you look at, but some articles I read said that at its height, the population was about 4,000 people in this area. So still a small town, but like

[A]

that's like a big town for back then. People just.

[B]

Yeah, it's not supposed to be a permanent town. It's like you stop in, you try to get your gold and then you leave. The town was built up with saloons, hotels, a post office, a jail and many other businesses to support the population and the mining. But again, it's not like it's this permanent growing metropolis. It is specifically for mining purposes. Yeah, the housing was kind of like more ramshackled and you know, thrown together. It wasn't like a glamorous place to stay. And most of the miners, as soon as they were paid for their work, just essentially went to the dozens of saloons and breweries and drank their schools. Yeah. Are they called breweries back then? I don't know.

[A]

Bars, saloons.

[B]

The saloons, yeah, yeah. They just went to go. Go drink and have sex. See women's bodies.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So, yeah, it was described as being like, a little bit of a rougher, dirtier place. And unfortunately, this area didn't deliver as much as people had hoped. So there were really low returns. It was really hard work, brutal winter conditions, and people were soon lured away by other, like, big gold rush areas. Right. Like, this was just like, if it was, maybe you'll find something fruitful.

[A]

They were like, well, we gotta find something else.

[B]

Totally. Yeah. Rumors, the bigger strikes elsewhere, they were like, we're out of here.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

By 1872, the population had dropped to only a few hundred people. So this is like a really short

[A]

period of from, like 4,000 to a couple hundred. Yeah, that's.

[B]

Yeah. And this is over just a few years.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So while most people didn't luck out here with a striking gold and striking.

[A]

They struck out.

[B]

They struck out. The area did produce a decent amount of wealth. Between the Carissa Carissa Mine expanding operations, stamp mills that were in the area, the area produced about $7 million worth of gold. But still, in comparison to other places, it was far too slow, too little return for gold miners. And so people started leaving, and the town quickly started thinning out. And as it's thinning out and businesses are closing and families are leaving, this is the time that something was ignited amongst the remaining people of South Pass City.

[A]

What was ignited?

[B]

Human rights.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

Women's rights.

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

Oh, yeah.

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

I can't wait to see what you picked.

[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

So, yeah, I said at the top of this episode that, like, this is connected to women's history. And it certainly is. And what I like about the story is that it's set in a place that you wouldn't anticipate milestones or, like, progress to happen at all.

[A]

Because it's, you think wild west, you think like cowboys and gunslinging and robbery, rough politics.

[B]

Like, yeah, it's just men. Totally. And yet this town becomes intertwined with the earliest legal victories for women's political rights in the US I love that. On December 10, 1869, Wyoming became the first US territory to grant women the right to vote and hold office when the territorial legislature passed a women's suffrage bill and Governor John A. Campbell signed it. So Wyoming was called the first place on God's green earth that could consistently claim to be the land of the free because of this. Oh, and here is the South Pass City connection. A saloon keeper and mine owner named William Bright, representing South Pass City in Wyoming's first territorial legislature, was the one who introduced the suffrage bill. Now, there's some debate and rumors on, like, what his motives were to pass the bill. Some people were like, oh, well, he might have been proposing it because he was trying to attract more settlers to the area, especially women, because, like, everyone was leaving. So whatever the reason, still a breakthrough. None, nonetheless, that this bill is put forth. And on December 1969, the bill is passed, which is a massive win for the whole state. Yeah.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Now, two years later, the legislature would try to actually repeal the act because women were not voting in the way that the Democratic party had hoped. Lol. But Governor Campbell vetoed that repeal.

[A]

Thank you, Campbell. I literally, like, had not I. If you were watching the YouTube video, I literally, like, I gave the expression of smur.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Without shaking my head

[B]

because of this. Wyoming is known as the Equality state, and in 1890, it refused to join the Union as a state unless its women were allowed to keep their voting rights. They literally told the US Congress, we will remain out of the union 100 years rather than come in without the women, supposedly. Wow. It's hard because, like, history gets rewritten, but that's what is said to have happened.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay, so let's back up again to December of 1969, when the bill was passed just two months later in February of 1870. Some say the exact date was February 14th. So on Valentine's Day, lovely Galentine's Day, South Pass City resident Esther Hobart Morris was appointed justice of the Peace, making her the first women in the US to hold public office where she would preside over. And this number, depending on what article I was reading, changed. But between like 26 and 34 cases through November of that year.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

So Esther's role was really, really important at this time because she. She had stated herself that basically, like, being in this position and being the first woman to hold this position, she felt like it was a test not of her abilities, but of all women

[A]

I also just can't even imagine how horrific she was treated by, like, men in politics.

[B]

Oh, well, thank you for bringing that up, because on her very first day, her predecessor, John Stillman, refused to hand over his court docket to her because she was a woman. Esther did not argue with him. Instead, she locked him up in Sweetwater County Jail.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

She let him go the next day, stating that her own self interest felt like a conflict of interest in this case, and she didn't think that that was fair. But nonetheless, I made a statement.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And she was known for not taking shit from any man. She was also 6ft tall, which I love, because that means, like, the majority of men who were looking. They were literally looking up at her like, sh. Shaking in their boots as she decided their fate.

[A]

Wait, are you watching Love is Blind?

[B]

No.

[A]

There's, like, one guy who's like, I'm 5ft 11 and 3 quarters.

[B]

And he's like, so he's 5, 9, right?

[A]

But he keeps saying, like, I'm not lying. I. I'm not saying I'm six feet. And it's like. It's almost worse. Like, saying five feet 11 inches, three and three quarters is, like. Is more of an ick than just, like, rounding up and saying six feet like most men. Men do.

[B]

It must be his delivery. Like, he's. He's trying to be. Make a joke and be.

[A]

I think it's like, the one guy who really pisses me off.

[B]

Oh. So, yeah.

[A]

I mean, there's a lot of them in Love is Blind. That pisses me off.

[B]

But I have no interest in watching the most recent season because I saw a lineup of all the people, and I can't tell the difference between a single man.

[A]

They make a joke about that.

[B]

Oh, do they?

[A]

Yeah, because one of the girls.

[B]

I'm supposed to know who any of these couples are. Like, all the guys look exactly the same.

[A]

One of the girls is like, I can't tell the difference between the three of you. Like, once they actually meet each other.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And she's dating one of them.

[B]

There's a rumor, or I guess like a myth called the Tea Party Myth that suggested that Esther convinced William Bright over tea to pass the suffrage bill. But most historians say that that is likely not true. It's a fabricated tale to make her seem less threatening to the male establishment. I guess, like, that she can, you know, successfully work with men. Maybe. I don't know.

[A]

My thought is, like, what'd she lace the tea with?

[B]

Oh, well, that's A good segue into something that's coming too. Oh, okay. Apparently she was dubbed, quote, the terror of all rogues. So sounds to me like she was trying to serve some justice.

[A]

Hell, yeah.

[B]

And she wasn't as affable as people were hoping for. So, yeah, she was a badass and she held the position and was the first woman in U.S. history to do so.

[A]

That's amazing.

[B]

Today there's a massive bronze statue of her outside of the Wyoming Capitol building.

[A]

So I love women.

[B]

Right? So cool. Also, do you want to see a picture of her?

[A]

I do.

[B]

If you're watching on YouTube, you've. This is already flashed up on the screen. She's got like, striking light eyes.

[A]

Oh, my goodness.

[B]

She's wearing a crown, little flower, a tiara.

[A]

Love her. She's a girl's girl.

[B]

South Pass City is often described as the birthplace of women's suffrage, which I feel like a lot of places can say that they. Yeah, like, this is not like the one place. But basically it's in reference to Wyoming Territory becoming the first U.S. territory to grant women the right to vote, office holding rights. And that was 50 years before the 19th amendment. Damn. It's in reference to the South Pass city legislator William Bright introducing the bill and a South Pass city resident, Esther Hobart Morris becoming the first woman to hold public office in the US in 1870.

[A]

That is a big deal. Especially, like, it had to start somewhere and that it started here.

[B]

It started in an old Wild west mining town that was like on the brink of becoming a ghost town.

[A]

Yeah. Damn.

[B]

So very cool history. A rough history of people seeking more for themselves and their country, whether it being gold rights, equality. And this area served the people as a means to do so, as the means to put forth what they believed to be right. And then it became a ghost town. In 1966, it was gifted to the Wyoming State Parks as a preservation gift to ensure that it wouldn't disappear like many of the other gold rush towns. Especially given all of its historical ties to what I just discussed.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So this was given to Wyoming State Parks and they've done a really amazing job at like, preserving some of the buildings because there's still structures on the land and it's also. It was added to the National Register of historic places in 1970.

[A]

I love visiting old Wild west towns.

[B]

I've never gotten to go to one.

[A]

Never?

[B]

No, because I've never been to the West. I'm trying, like outside of when you're on tour, which was like, you see,

[A]

did you ever go to the one in palm springs?

[B]

No. Why did I not make the connection that I lived in California, and, like, so much of the gold rush was

[A]

in California, and yet I never.

[B]

I always think of, like, the other states. Yeah. Well, I haven't been to Colorado. Really?

[A]

The desert.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But, no, I just think they're so cool. I mean, any place that is, like, a historic building, that they've either the old furnishings and, like, things were left behind and are there on display that you can see or that people have, like, dressed in that era, I just. There's something so magical about it. And I feel like all the wild west towns that I've been to, One of my favorite ones Is actually in death valley. In. Is that Utah, Arizona, or nevada? It's like you drive through the desert and kind of go through all those states. But anyway, Death valley, that might even be in California. Anyway, Death valley, there's, like, an old. Like, a little gold area. But what I love is that they. The floors are always, like, dirty and dusty.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

And I feel like that's.

[B]

That's, like, what it was.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Did you ever, like, get gold? Like, did you do the actual.

[A]

Like, I think I. I've definitely done one of those rock things, but, yeah, definitely did not get gold.

[B]

Didn't get gold. Ah, shoot. You gotta go back. You gotta go back, I'm telling you. So cool. I would love to go to one.

[A]

I think there's a place in new jersey. I mean, it's like an amusement park type of situation.

[B]

Oh, yeah. I've been to one of those. Where it's like, they have the thing set up, and you can, like, do the sifting and all that.

[A]

You can get those rubber band guns. Yeah, I probably love those. They're painful.

[B]

Okay. So, of course, a town that has a lot of mining accidents, Exposure, violence, illness, Harsh conditions, harsh people. And death. Lots of death. And sometimes murder can certainly become haunted.

[A]

Hell, yeah. Anything can become haunted.

[B]

Truly, anything can. So a couple of the murders we're gonna go through. A notorious 1875 unsolved murder was of a man named George mccombey, who was shot during a card game at south pass city's exchange saloon. And the exchange saloon is one of the buildings that's still standing. So you can go in there, which

[A]

it looks like, which means that everyone knows who did it, because other people were watching the card game, but they just never.

[B]

They're apparently, like, in the back of a really small room. And so the story was like, oh, it was a card game gone wrong. But then other people were like, no, this was an intentional hit. Like, there's an actual conspiracy behind it. And apparently, the person. It's unsolved because the person was never caught, I guess, or tried.

[A]

That's why I'm like. I feel like either, like, it's the Wild west, like, he shot and got on his horse and got away, or they all knew who it was, and they just kind of, like, looked the other way.

[B]

Well, the person's. Apparently, their name is Es Tompkins. So local lore says McCombey still haunts the Exchange Saloon, which you can go into the building. People report seeing a shadowy figure moving around the abandoned saloon. And so some people theorize that this is George waiting for his murder to be solved. And if you're like, oh, my gosh, I feel so bad for him, like, he's gonna be waiting forever. Maybe not.

[A]

What do you mean?

[B]

Every year, from what I could see online, every year, there's actually a murder mystery dinner party put on where, like, there's actual historical facts and evidence for George McCombey's death presented, and, like, the dinner is trying to solve his murder. So if there are true sleuths out there or someone finally makes a connection or something, it's set up like a fun dinner party, but they're actually trying to solve. To actually solve a new goal unlocked. Right? That is.

[A]

So go to that dinner party.

[B]

I think that that's how it is. It was hard for me to differentiate because, you know, how sometimes. And props to the copywriters out there who work on the event. It was hard for me to be like, okay, how much is of this is, like, truly factual about George's case that's being presented and how much is built into the game to make it a fun dinner party? So I'm not sure. And then I was, like, reading some people's blog posts about their experience, and I. So that's what made me think that it was a lot of, like, the true facts of his case.

[A]

Damn. You know what this reminds me of is. And I really want to start doing this. I just don't have enough friends yet here in Massachusetts. But I really want to do a themed dinner party where I want to host it, but I basically give a topic to everyone before the dinner party.

[B]

Oh, is this, like, the PowerPoint ones?

[A]

No, no, no. But, like, I want to, like, go back to the time where it was, like, Mary Shelley, Percy Shelley, and, like, their group of, like, writers and novelists who got together and they'd have drinks, and then they write whatever. But in the idea of, let's say it's Jack the Ripper, that's the theme. And everyone, before the dinner does research, looks up Jack the Ripper. And the whole dinner we're discussing Jack the Ripper and our theories because we've done the research beforehand.

[B]

I mean, that case was just solved, right?

[A]

Yeah. Through DNA, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But like, things like that where I want to have, like, a specific topic where we, like, in preparation for the dinner, we're all consuming information about that topic, and then we can have. Because I feel like sometimes you meet people or you're hanging out with people and you don't know what they're talking about. And you can't really feel like you can join into the conversation. But if everyone comes with the same preparation, I feel like you prime yourself for a really conversation.

[B]

And when you get too deep in conspiracies, like when you get that point in the conversation, everyone has to put on a hat.

[A]

Yes. And we could even do it with conspiracy theories, where you pick. The Gateway tapes or what was the one I just covered? The Montauk project.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And there's so many conspiracies that you can, like, go down during a dinner party.

[B]

Like what I say, I think that that's an amazing idea. And what I would say to anyone who's right now thinking, like, oh, conspiracy theories. That's so silly. Look at the world. And how many conspiracy theories just in the past decade have been proven to be true? It's upsetting. So you should actually maybe believe everything and work to disprove it.

[A]

Believe everything and believe no one.

[B]

Oh, that's good. Get that tattooed on my nip. Take a picture.

[A]

Really zoom in. That will throw off the coloration.

[B]

Micro font. Okay, so yes, George was murdered in the saloon. Potentially there's his spirit. Haunting. And potentially there's the opportunity to still solve his case. But there is another case or cases that happened here that have been solved because there was a killer. There is a serial killer in South Pass City.

[A]

Oh, no.

[B]

The murderess of Slaughterhouse Gulch. Polly Bartlett, who was the first serial killer in Wyoming.

[A]

Wait, we gotta say this. The murderess.

[B]

Equality, equal rights, female rage.

[A]

Was she a poisoner?

[B]

Yeah, but I love that it's the

[A]

murderess of the Slaughterhouse. Because that sounds like such a violent, physical serial killer.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. It sounds like you're about to be,

[A]

like, chopped up, like Texas Chainsaw massacre,

[B]

thrown down a body shoot.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So not quite as gruesome. Some historians have said that Paulie's story is lore, but according to that lore, Paulie lured businessmen and other wealthy travelers to her family's lodge, which she shared with her father. She would give them a meal, a glass of whiskey. That whiskey was laced. They would fall asleep, AKA be poisoned to death. And then Polly would take their valuables like gold, and then left her father Jim, to deal with the bodies. What he did with the bodies was just bury them on their property. 22 victims in total. 22.

[A]

That reminds me so much of the, like, the Coach House murders. Why am I blanking on the name? But, like, the true serial killers, where they would rob the people who stayed and then they had the trapdoor.

[B]

Oh, was that in Charleston, South Carolina?

[A]

I don't remember. Oh, was it Lavinia Fisher?

[B]

Wasn't it? Lavinia? Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, There we go. It reminds me of Lavinia Fisher. She's supposedly, like, the first female serial killer.

[B]

Female serial killer in the US but

[A]

she was doing very similar thing.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Where it was, like, stealing their possessions.

[B]

Right. So this is kind of like their MO and the process of killing and disposing of their victims. If anyone came looking for these men, Paulie and her father would say that they heard some outlaws were looking for them or that some of the Native American groups were looking for them, basically being like, hey, I've heard a rumor that there's another group of people that had a special interest in the person that you're looking for. Go there, Go find those people, and you might find some more clues as to what happened to your loved ones. Instead of all roads lead to the slaughterhouse.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Apparently, the murder hustle was not new for Polly and her dad. So they actually first created this murder scam in their saloon in Ohio before realizing that South Pass City would be a much better spot. Because unlike where they were before, where it was, like, mostly residents, this was just a place where people continued to travel through. So, like, if someone disappeared on their route, how would you know that they disappeared here? Right, for sure.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So they're like, oh, my gosh, this is great. There's so many people for the gold rushes coming through. Let's move over there. And that is where they created this sort of, like, in.

[A]

Damn.

[B]

And they were right to think so, because they got away at first with poisoning 22 men, killing them, robbing them, and pretty much everyone from what it seemed like looked the other way until they killed a man named Theodore Fountain, whose father happened to be a mine owner. And when Theodore vanished, his dad was like, oh, my God, something happened to my son. I gotta figure it out. So he hired investigators to go find Theodore and that led the investigators to Polly the murderess.

[A]

I mean, I will say it's so impressive solving murders back in the day like that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, there is no blueprint. There's no social media trail or like digital footprint or whatever that's left behind. Like, it truly, I feel like would take so much more effort. And also you're trusting a lot of witnesses, which isn't always like, you know, something you can trust.

[B]

You know what it kind of reminds me of? And this is much more like a modern day account. And nothing to do with the Wild west, but similar types of, I think, behaviors when trying to investigate the movie Wind River. Did you ever watch that?

[A]

It sounds familiar.

[B]

It's a Jeremy Renner. He's trying to. And I think Elizabeth Olsen's in it. Oh, my God. It's been years since I watched it. But they're trying to investigate the disappearance and murder of an indigenous woman on a reservation.

[A]

Okay. So I haven't seen it, but I've seen like the. I know of the movie.

[B]

Yeah. It is extremely upsetting and a good depiction of what happens.

[A]

Damn.

[B]

To many people on the reservations. But it reminds me a little bit of like what I would view as happening in the Wild west where it's like you go, and these people, like, don't have many resources and they're asking all these people who have other motives and reasons to lie and cover things up.

[A]

Damn.

[B]

So it's like, God, how do you get to the truth? Okay, so Theodore goes missing. His dad hires an investigator, leads him to Paulie and her dad, Jim. And then there are two brothers, Sam and Ed Ford, who were also supposedly, I guess, lured in by Paulie. But Ed was like, no, I'm not really interested in this. But Sam, his brother Sam was like, whatever, I'll go back with. Paulie ended up becoming one of the victims. So Ed had a strong feeling that Paulie had killed.

[A]

That's sloppy on Paulie and her dad.

[B]

Totally. So when Ed found out that there was a bounty on Paulie and Jim due to the investigators hired to find Theodore, he was like a bounty. I gotcha. He went, shot Jim dead, then grabbed Paulie and turned her into the authorities that night. Whoa. Polly is shot dead through a window while she's standing in her jail cell like it is.

[A]

That is the exact reason it was called the Wild, Wild West.

[B]

Yeah. Her killer was Otto Calkhorst, a worker for Theodore Fountain's father's mine. So Theodore went missing. Investigator found Polly, Theodore's dad's employee, goes and shoots Vengeance. Polly, Theodore's killer. Damn. Esther Morris, the first American female justice of the peace, did not charge Otto for the murder of Polly.

[A]

Those are two names, or actually three names that I feel like no one uses anymore. Esther, Polly and Otto.

[B]

Yeah, bring them back. I think Polly's so cute.

[A]

I love Polly.

[B]

Are you sure not a girl?

[A]

Are you asking your baby?

[B]

Hey, it's not too late to change courses. You still have time to cook.

[A]

You do still have time to cook.

[B]

Suck it back in.

[A]

Suck it back in. Why did the cousin Lainey.

[B]

They said that she was a boy.

[A]

Oh, interesting.

[B]

She came out being a girl, huh?

[A]

Well, it is very interesting because. And this is not the exact science, but basically, the testes start in utero, like the ovaries. And then they either stay like that as ovaries.

[B]

Should I stay or should I go?

[A]

And sometimes they go and they flop outside and they become the testies. And that is science.

[B]

Oh, man. Oh, another thing that Litha said, our resident witch. Witch, which she didn't even know. But, like, my whole first pregnancy, I constantly told you and other people that I thought I was having twins. And I, like, no matter how many times they were like, that is a single child in your room. I'm like, I'm having twins this pregnancy. I've also been obsessed with the idea that I'm having twins. But, like, most people didn't know I was pregnant. So then when I was like, litha, you figured out that I was pregnant. The wind told you. She basically, like, responded and, like, kind of almost like gave me a reading where she was like, there's a lot of twin energy with your pregnancy where, like, this child is going to be so much like Noah. They're going to be best friends, thickest thieves. And she kept saying, like, twins, twin energy. And I was like, is that why that pregnancy and this pregnancy, I'm just like, twin, twin, twin, twin.

[A]

It's wild.

[B]

It makes no sense. Why am I obsessed with the idea that, like.

[A]

Because at first scared the shit out of me because Noah's also a Gemini, which is like the twin sign.

[B]

True.

[A]

So we were like, oh, maybe it's that. But then for you to be pregnant like this again and have the same feeling, and then for Litha to be like, it's twin energy.

[B]

I don't know, saying something.

[A]

You're having twins born a couple years apart,

[B]

okay? So people say that the jail is certainly going to be a haunted place and that perhaps Polly is still haunting it. It's hard because there's not many actual reports of, like, what people are truly experiencing. Like, I think people, like, hear some stuff, see some shadows or whatever, but, like, the actual stories of hauntings are so limited here, beyond people just being like, it's haunted or this spirit is just walking through here, maybe.

[A]

Well, and also because this is, like, a park and it's not a place where people are currently living and spending time in, I feel like people aren't spending the nights there. People aren't sleeping there. Living there, you're probably going during the day where other people are there. You're not necessarily investigating the paranormal.

[B]

True. Yeah.

[A]

So there's probably a lot that happens when those doors are closed to the public.

[B]

I'm so curious if there's any, like, security cameras set up anywhere.

[A]

I hope so.

[B]

So many of the buildings, 23 to be exact, Are still preserved on site. There are also over 30,000 artifacts that you can look at if you go there today. You can pan for gold in Willow Creek, love. Apparently you can go into the Smith Sherlock store. I think, like, some of the buildings are, like, operating for people who, like, tourists go visit. Yeah. And you can order, like, drinks. You can get root beer, things like that, and you can take a tour of the Carissa Mine. And, yeah, people have seen things. Feeling of being watched, Strange energy here and there, but for the most part, it seems to feel all right and be all right. And honestly, I was like, maybe a lot of the ghosts here abandoned the town as well, and that what people are experiencing here and there might not be any spirits attached to this ghost town, which only really existed and operated for a few years. Like, maybe it's just spirits passing through and they happen to see them, or spirits that come with the people to the area.

[A]

Or there's a whole goddamn ghost town. Literal ghosts living in the town. Yeah. When living beings are not walking around.

[B]

Right. And now, coming off of your episode from last week, I'm like, man, where are the EVPs from here? There's got to be some.

[A]

Can we rent out this town, do a paranormal investigation for, like, a night?

[B]

I wouldn't be focused on the paranormal investigation. I would be in the creek trying to find some gold.

[A]

Where'd Corinne go?

[B]

She's trying to trick you.

[A]

Hear a.

[B]

I think I found something.

[A]

Just pebbles.

[B]

It's literally a rock. Micah,

[A]

wait. Oh, man. We have to talk about how the other day. Because finally, Saturn has moved, and it,

[B]

like, literally, you're not in your return.

[A]

I'm not in my Saturn return. It was impacting both my sun sign and my rising sign, Virgo and Pisces for the last three plus years. And finally it moved. And all of the tiktoks, all of the astrologers are saying, if you're in these signs, you're finally going to feel some relief. I was texting you about it, how excited I was. You sent me this text and it's all about how I should not get a motorbike and how dangerous it would be. And I was like, what the hell? Because one I've never talked about.

[B]

One thing I know for certain coming out of your Saturn return, do not get a motorbike. I've never had a motorbike, but I hear that it will fuck you up.

[A]

And you've never talked about wanting a motorbike, but I'm gonna warn you, don't get a motorbike. And what was the rock, the crystal or stone?

[B]

Oh my God. Why can't I Moldavite? I was trying to tell you not to get Moldavite because I'm pretty sure Moldavite is the one. Unless I'm misremembering, I think Moldavite is, is the one where like, if you keep it on you, it gets rid of everything that doesn't serve you but like, in really aggressive ways. Like, like it doesn't think one of your. Your roommate is good for you anymore or something. So instead of just finding a way to have you and your roommate like separate and like get in a fight or something, it'll set your house on fire so you have to move.

[A]

Oh, it's like burning shit down type of situation.

[B]

If your boyfriend shouldn't be with you, it's going to put you in a really bad car accident where you're in the hospital for a month and he doesn't visit. And that's how you find out it is like, that's why I was trying do not get a motorbike because you

[A]

were doing voice to text.

[B]

I was in the car. I was voice to texting you.

[A]

So no motorbikes and no Moldavite.

[B]

Anywho, my last sentence is that more than just a haunted location and more than a ghost town, South Pass City, Wyoming, stands as a living monument to the women who carved a path for the rest of us to now walk.

[A]

I love that.

[B]

Yeah. And I love Esther.

[A]

I know Esther's badass and like the

[B]

guy that's like, you can't have my court documents Even though this is your new job, because you're a woman, she's like, fine. Locking you up.

[A]

Put him in jail.

[B]

First bit of business in my new position. Jail.

[A]

Love her.

[B]

Oh, also.

[A]

What?

[B]

I didn't even write this. The. The jail. Well, actually, I'm not sure if the jail was in her home, but, like, her courthouse was in her home. Like, she operated out of her home. So she lived and also declared justice through her gavel down.

[A]

She's just like you, everything.

[B]

You never have to leave your house.

[A]

Your. Our studio is in Korean's house.

[B]

Yeah. Wow.

[A]

I mean, that does make sense too, because it's like they are like smaller towns and just kind of like, set up.

[B]

Yeah. There's only a few buildings. Yeah.

[A]

I feel like that was common where people would have their shops or businesses and their home. Their, like, bedrooms in the back, whatever.

[B]

I think there's a stone potentially or like a little boulder put on the site where her home was. Because it's not one of the buildings that's still preserved and standing, but I think that there is, like, a little monument there.

[A]

I love this. Thanks for sharing that story.

[B]

Yeah. We have a impressive feat for women's voting. We have first woman holding office, and we have a murderess of the slaughterhouse.

[A]

Strong women.

[B]

Strong women.

[A]

You know, I once. So I. I called my mom a feminist, and she was so offended by it, and I had to have a whole conversation about her. I was like.

[B]

I mean.

[A]

Cause it's like a political term and like, people get whatever. But I had to have a whole conversation with my mom. And my mom, I will say, like, she is unfortunately not the type of person who is receptive to other opinions. Like, she is a very strongly opinionated woman. And if you don't agree with her, you're just wrong. So sometimes it's not worth fighting.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But when it came to the feminist thing, I was just so taken aback because I was like, how could you be offended by what I mean in the most complimentary way of, like, you have shown me what it is to be a strong, independent woman.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And.

[B]

Well, because we view it as something lovely, beautiful. But like, in the world that she's operating in, it's probably used as, like, as an insult.

[A]

Right. Like, it's a negative thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, which I was, like, so taken aback by. But then I explained to her what it meant to be a feminist. And it's like the truly the only time I've ever had a political. And I feel like it's barely a political conversation. With her, and she actually was receptive and now, like, calls herself a feminist.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I need to have you sub in for me because I don't get through to anyone when I try about feminism

[A]

or about politics because it's hard.

[B]

It's like, how can you call it politics when some of these things when it's literally morality just so beyond that.

[A]

Yeah, it's not even. Yeah, it's about ethics and morals.

[B]

Usually gets me, Leaves me crying and red.

[A]

Oh, I literally showed up to your. To our recording, like, two weeks ago, and I was like, I'm fuming.

[B]

Yeah. It's so hard to not. Oh, my God. Anyway, this is why we escape for moments in ghost stories and ghost stories, things like that.

[A]

And strong women who walked the path before we did and helped lay the path or the foundation is what I was trying to say.

[B]

Yesterday we had a wonderful warm day in the Boston area, and I was outside with Noah, chatting with some neighbors who have young kids, and I was asking them about what they did to help transition their kids into daycare in school when it comes to food, and they were like, oh, we send our kids with little spoon wheels. I was like, okay, great. We use the same thing here.

[A]

Little Spoon is amazing because it supports children from, like, the very first feed from being a baby with baby cereal and baby blends through the big kid stage and toddler stage. Like, they're there through all the different phases.

[B]

Yes. And it matches what they need. So in terms of what they need to physically eat, but then also developing, like, fine motor skills and pincher grasp and all of that. So it takes a lot of the stress and thought from parents or caregivers out of feeding the notoriously picky age group of readers.

[A]

And it gives peace of mind because they have over a hundred plus ingredients banned across the board, so you don't have to overthink labels or second guess what you're serving. It's already been thought out for you, and that confidence makes all the difference. Plus, they have snacks, and I know Noemi is obsessed with their fruit rippers.

[B]

And feeding the kids doesn't have to be complicated. Little Spoon makes it easy with real nutritionally balanced meals and snacks designed for every stage. It shows up ready to go, takes the pressure off, and somehow it still gets devoured, veggies and all. No artificial dyes, flavors, or sweeteners either. And you know what? That is a win I will take every time. Get 30 off your first online order at littlespoon.com TGOG with code TGOG that's L-I T T L-E-S-P-O-O-N.com TGOG with code TGOG for 30 off your first order.

[A]

Okay. There is one service that I use religiously because ever since I first signed up for it, it has helped save me money and even caught the fact that I was paying for the same subscription twice. So I am so grateful for, and I swear by Rocket Money. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions. It monitors your spending and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings.

[B]

Rocket Money not only can track your subscriptions, they also have the ability to cancel within the app. And they also have more than just tracking subscriptions. You can set budgets and goals, get personalized insight and regular reports, and receive real time alerts for large transactions, upcoming bills, refunds, and low balances.

[A]

Oh, I truly had to put myself in check thanks to Rocket Money. And I was like, here's my budget. This is what I want every month to spend on clothing, et cetera. And it sends me like a weekly email to show me how I'm staying on track.

[B]

I love that. Let Rocket Money help you reach your financial goals faster. [e-mail] TGOG that's RocketMoney.com TGOG RocketMoney.com TGOG

[A]

I have a story about a strong woman because I couldn't find anything about South Pass specifically. And then I was looking up ghost towns and I was like, I wanna. I wanna lean into the, like, Strong Women Women's History Month aspect. So. And that's what I did. Okay. Oh, and it has Wyoming. There we go. Okay, so this is from our listener, Kay. It's called Heartwarming Stories of Past Loved Ones. Hi friends. I have only been listening for a couple of months now, but you've become my new favorite podcast and have gotten me through many hours of cleaning the kitchen and many, many loads of laundry. So thank you. Before I get into my stories, I wanted to tell you. My husband had to go out to Boston this past summer for work. We're from Utah and I tagged along. I recently found out I'm a descendant of Rebecca Nurse, so I had to make a trip to Salem. After Salem, we explored Marblehead because I heard Sabrina mention it and it was around dinner time, so we found a pub to eat at. The food and drinks were great, the atmosphere is fun. We even made friends with a couple of older ladies at the table next to us and on the drive back to Boston, I searched Marblehead on two girls with ghost and found episode 282 haunted Marblehead. We were shocked when Sabrina started talking about Maddy's cause that was the exact place we had dinner. Okay, onto my stories. This isn't necessarily my story, but I was there when it happened and it's super heartwarming and paranormal. My great grandparents owned a ranch in Star Valley, Wyoming. They built a small farmhouse on it and raised their family. That is where my grandpa grew up. When my great grandma died back in the early 90s, the house was left to my grandpa and has since been a fun place for all of his children, grandchildren, and now great grandchildren to run away to during the summer. It's kind of like a family cabin. About a year after my great grandpa passed, my grandpa wanted the whole family to spend Labor Day weekend there. I was about 5 at the time, and my cousins were around the same age. So once 8pm hit, we were all ushered inside to go to sleep. That way the adults could go back out into the yard and hang out just themselves around the campfire. My sister and I were in an upstairs room and three of our cousins, all brothers, were in the basement. The basement was pretty chilly, so a space heater had been set up for the boys. About an hour or two later, one of my cousins, who was five at the time, woke up to someone shaking him. When he opened his eyes, our great grandma was standing there telling him to grab the couch cushion to put out the fire, he said. He sat up and sure enough, the space heater had caught fire and the room was filling up with smoke. He did what he was told, smothered the small fire with the cushion and. And when he turned to tell our great grandma it was out, she wasn't in the room anymore. So he went upstairs to go look for her. My aunt had just come in to check on the kids and was surprised to see him up and asked, what's going on? And he told her he was looking for Grandma K. My Grandma K was not alive. My aunt was confused and had to explain that Grandma K is up in heaven. My cousin said, well, then how did she wake me up to put out the fire?

[B]

Oh my God.

[A]

Because he was five.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The couch has long been replaced, but the cushion is still there on display.

[B]

Oh, I love that.

[A]

Like honoring the memory.

[B]

Yes. Yeah.

[A]

Okay, so now the day that she

[B]

saved the family all the time.

[A]

Truly.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's an artifact. Never get rid of that. Okay, so now for a couple of stories of my Own. When I was in high school, my aunt unfortunately passed away in a car wreck. We were very, very close, so I had a very hard time with her passing. About a week or two after her funeral, I had a dream about her. In this dream, I was walking through a gorgeous garden with a stream running through it. I started following the stream and at the end of it, next to a pond with a waterfall, sat my aunt planting some flowers. She looked up and asked me what was wrong. I started crying and told her how much I needed her. I was an angsty teen and she was the only one I felt I could truly talk to who understood me. She smiled that beautiful smile of hers and told me to cheer up and that she would send someone to take her place. I woke up later that day. We were having family dinner at my grandparents when one of my other aunts I just. Honestly, I think about like Noemi and Delfina when I hear like stories like this. We're at dinner at my grandparents when one of my other aunts pulls me aside and told me about the dream she had the night before. In her dream, she was following a stream through a beautiful garden, very similar to my dream. And there was my late aunt at the edge of the water, gardening. Except in her dream she told my aunt that I was struggling and asked her if she could take and asked her if she could take her place and be the support for me. Oh so crazy.

[B]

Wow. Oh my God.

[A]

Despite sending someone in her place, I have on many occasions felt my aunt who had passed away and her presence around me. I followed in her footsteps career wise and many times I will need help with something on my job and I'll hear her voice clear as day in my head telling me what I need to do. Other days when I'm feeling down, I just hear her voice bringing me up or saying an inside joke we used to have and it will comfort me. Okay, one more story. These are emotional, but okay. My husband's grandmother passed away right before I met my husband, so I never had the chance to meet her. But my husband was her favorite grandchild and they were super close. So when we had our first daughter, we named her after his grandma. When she was a toddler, she would occasionally get night terrors and wake up scream crying. Except she wasn't fully awake and it was really hard to get her out of it. One night she was having another night terror, so I ran in. I tried to help her calm down. I tried to help her out of this night terror. I had just had another New baby. So I was so exhausted mentally and physically, and watching my child freak out in her sleep sent me over the edge. I just held her and started bawling. That is when I felt a hand on my shoulder. I assumed it was my husband coming in to help calm down our daughter, because he usually would. So without looking up, I said, I just can't handle this tonight. I feel horrible, but my mom, Hart, can't take this. He didn't respond. So finally I look up. No one was there. I then heard a voice in my head, clear as day, say, God, why? I'm like, I know this is really getting you. The emotional stories always do this, but I try not to. Okay. I then heard a voice in my head, clear as day, say, you are such a good mom. Go back to sleep. Now I've got her. Instantly, my daughter settled down and fell peacefully back to sleep. Oh, my God. I told my husband when I got back in bed and the exact time, we both said his grandma's name, and we both just knew it was her. My daughter has not had a single night terror to this day.

[B]

This is also a wonderful reminder and proof that sometimes while the child looks like they're in distress and needing help, it's actually the parent who needs it more.

[A]

I know. Yeah. That's from Kay.

[B]

Oh, my God. Beautiful.

[A]

Not only is Kay a badass woman and strong mom, but, like, she has so many spiritual women.

[B]

Yes. Looking over her like, all of these stories are just. Yeah. Just ancestors, loved ones, relatives.

[A]

It's beautiful.

[B]

Everyone coming through. Oh, my God. So beautiful.

[A]

So sweet.

[B]

All there to comfort and to save. Save lives. So wild.

[A]

Tell the women in your life how amazing they are. Thank them for everything that they have done to provide for you to get to this point in your life.

[B]

And, Kay, not to talk about when you're eventually in the spirit world, but, like, I feel like this is all the women before Kay. And Kay will also do this for great grandchildren and other people who want 100% women.

[A]

Love women. Love them so much. The best.

[B]

They're the best.

[A]

The only people I want in my life is cool, badass women. It's kind of all I have in my life.

[B]

I was gonna say you have a. You have a lot of them. Yeah.

[A]

So more Women's History month stuff coming, especially on Patreon. I'm so excited for that episode.

[B]

Ooh, I'm excited, too.

[A]

Eatocratic and her sexual relationship with a ghost.

[B]

Yeah, that's a good one. I loved the one that you did. It was like Technically a nod to Black History Month, but it was so.

[A]

Oh yeah, the most badass woman. Madame C.J.

[B]

walker.

[A]

Yeah, that's. I mean, that's like the amazing thing about telling ghost stories is it's not just ghost stories. A lot of times we're going back into history and learning these biographies of people who we've. We've never heard of and otherwise never would have learned about or known. And I feel like I've become so inspired by the stories we've read.

[B]

This would actually be such a good school lesson for if there are any history teachers out there or English teachers. I feel like you could do it in English classes too. Around October, you have your kids write ghost stories, but they have to be real. So you have to find these cool stories or go deep into these stories.

[A]

You know what I would love to do one day is teach a college course that is history through the lens of the paranormal or something like that. Or you pick like the Victorian era as like told through a paranormal lens.

[B]

The Victorian era. That's a heavy one, right?

[A]

It's a two semester long course.

[B]

Yeah, that's a, that's a senior capstone.

[A]

Yeah. Because I feel like in college there were a lot of twists on subjects.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Where it's not just like American history, it's with a different.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Twist.

[B]

Yeah, but like the paranormal is more interesting. We didn't have any paranormal classes. Lmu.

[A]

No.

[B]

They need one.

[A]

I guess this is technically what our podcast is. We don't have to teach a college course like just listen to our podcast or.

[B]

Or get paid to teach the college course for the materials you've already created. That's true.

[A]

Repurpose. And that is smart.

[B]

Recycle all.

[A]

Yeah, that's thinking smart, doing less work, getting more money. Yeah. And we love money. So join us on Patreon.

[B]

Join us on Patreon,

[A]

like, and subscribe on YouTube. Share with everyone.

[B]

But speaking of Patreon, just as a reminder, you get the ad free one week early episodes if you're also an Apple plus subscriber. So if you want episodes ad free in one week before you ordinarily get them, it doesn't change your schedule at all. You can subscribe on Apple or if you want that, plus some extra bonus. A lot of extra bonus stuff. I like the same price. For the same price, you can join Patreon.

[A]

You get bonus content, you get campfire stories, you get witch class book club free sticker. After three months of being a member,

[B]

our next book club book was just decided in the month of April. March. March. We are the 13th floor. I can't remember the episode 13. Sabrina has to speak for me. My excuse is that I'm pregnant.

[A]

March. Let me look at the date. It's the middle of March.

[B]

It actually voted on it in February. So that's why I was getting confused.

[A]

Well, now I'm wondering.

[B]

Sure. It wasn't April.

[A]

I promise you. Okay, March 18th. Which might be right after this episode comes out. March 18th. Wednesday at 8:00pm Eastern. We will be discussing the book called episode 13. I think it's by like Craig something episode.

[B]

Okay, so not the 13th floor.

[A]

It's by Craig Dilloui. And it's all about a ghost hunting reality tv. It's a fictional novel, but it's written kind of like nonfiction.

[B]

It's written like found footage. Found footage. That was the term I was trying to.

[A]

It's about a ghost hunting reality TV crew. Fade to black. That's literally their crew name that investigates a notoriously haunted mansion. The Paranormal Research foundation for their season finale, episode 13. So come join us for that and all the other fun things on Patreon

[B]

and email us your ghost story. Yes, please. And we'll see you not even next week. We put out episodes two to three times a week, so we'll see in free.

[A]

And you can see. You can see us basically every day if you're on Patreon. Yeah, I'm gonna steal your final saying of thank you so much to the team behind the camera. We have Jamie Ryan who edits and produces. We have Emily Venter, we have Sony, we have our agent manager. Like there's so many people who are helping keep us alive and keeping us going and we're very grateful. So thank you to them and thank you to all of you and we

[B]

will see you on the other side.

[A]

Very spooky.

[B]

Thanks for listening.

[A]

We love to hear your stories and your feedback. So we have a little survey for you. Please visit two GoG fans to take our listener survey. That's the number two, the letter G. O G fans to take our listener survey.