Episode 367 - The Polaroid Ghost | Glassell Park Haunting

Summary

Podcast Summary: Two Girls One Ghost

Episode 367 – The Polaroid Ghost | Glassell Park Haunting

April 5, 2026

Episode Overview

In this episode, hosts Corinne Vien and Sabrina Deana-Roga dive into “The Polaroid Ghost” case—a decades-long haunting in Glassell Park, Los Angeles, where communication with a spirit named “Wright” was documented through thousands of Polaroid photos. The pair discuss the backstory, skeptical investigations, and the enduring mystery, blending their trademark humor with thoughtful analysis of one of paranormal history’s most persistent and unusual cases.

---

Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Bigfoot Sightings and Movie Reviews (01:16 – 08:26)

• The episode kicks off with banter about recent Bigfoot sightings in Ohio, musings about the weather, and playful speculation about interviewing Bigfoot.
• Corinne reviews the new A24 horror film “Undertone,” a sound-based horror centered on a paranormal podcast, drawing parallels to Two Girls One Ghost:
  • “It is called Undertone. It's A24's new horror film all about a girl…podcasting about the paranormal...It's a sound horror.” (04:06)
• Both discuss the unique fear of recording at odd hours with headphones, feeling isolated and vulnerable—a sensation reflected in the movie and their own podcasting experience.

2. Introduction to the Polaroid Ghost Case (08:26 – 10:21)

• Corinne introduces the main story: a spirit in Glassell Park, LA, that communicates through Polaroid photos, spelling out words, giving answers, and possibly providing clues to a hidden body.
  • “What began as a ghostly apparition caught on camera turned into full on messages appearing on these photos.” (08:49)
• Over 30+ years, more than 15,000 paranormal photos have been taken, with no debunker succeeding despite attempts by experts, friends, and even Kodak/Polaroid engineers.

3. The Johns & The First Ghost Photos (10:21 – 18:38)

• The story centers on John Huckert and John Matowski (“Little John and Big John”), a couple of artists who move into a charming but quirky house in the early 1980s.
• Early odd experiences: knocks, electrical issues, shuffling in the attic—easily rationalized away at first.
• In 1992, after a heavy bathroom door opens inexplicably (twice), John snaps a Polaroid. The photo reveals a classic “cartoon ghost” shape—like someone under a sheet.
  • “It looks like the most ghost, costumey ghost ever...But it also has this like white mist coming out from different angles.” (15:37)
• A second photo brings the apparition closer; skepticism follows, with John suspecting pranks or camera error, but repeated testing rules this out.

4. Friends' Reactions & Interactive Ghost Communication (18:38 – 29:45)

• Friends are invited to a cocktail “reveal night,” react with skepticism (“Cool art thing. How'd you do this?”), but become believers when new Polaroids start revealing intelligent, responsive answers to direct questions:
  • Q: "Are you here?" → A: "YES" appears on the developed photo, written in ethereal “cloudy” letters (20:00 – 21:30).
  • Q: "Are you a good or bad ghost?" → A: "Friend"
  • Q: "What’s your name?" → A: "WRIGHT"
  • Q: "Where do you go when you’re not here?" → A: "FLUX"
• The words appear only in the developed film, not on the Polaroid surface.

5. Investigations, Skeptics, and The Media (29:45 – 38:23)

• TV show “Sightings” features the case; over 1,000 photos are taken during live taping, with results no one can debunk.
  • “Camera experts, Kodak, Polaroid, even the FBI came to try to debunk—no one could.” (33:29)
• Claims such as double exposure, pareidolia, or chemical manipulation are tested and dismissed: independent guests bring their own unopened film and cameras, ask spontaneous questions, get relevant ghost-written replies.
• Memorable quote on skepticism:
  • Sabrina: "How does it not then prove ghosts are real? What would convince people that they are?" (34:44)
• Corinne points to the extreme measures skeptics proposed to “fake” the effect—elaborate, time-consuming, and unable to recreate results.

6. The Nature of Wright & The House’s History (40:08 – 56:57)

• The entity, Wright, responds to questions over years with not only facts but encouragement—leaving messages like “keep going,” “I am here for you,” and “anything is possible.”
• The hosts note Wright’s “great sense of humor” and friendly nature, making him “top 5 ghost goals.”
• Research in city archives finds a previous owner named Wright, suggesting the spirit’s real-world identity.
• Psychic Peter James, after visiting, claims there's a body buried on the property; ask-the-ghost Polaroids produce the words “dig” and “dig here,” but no excavation is done.
• On the ghost’s supportive words:
  • “He loved the Johns. And he was so encouraging. Both Johns are, like, struggling artists...and Wright would give them messages to encourage them. Things like, keep going or anything is possible.” (46:01)

7. The Parties, The Grim Reaper & Ghostly Pranks (41:07 – 45:27)

• Annual Halloween parties become legendary; rules are set about keeping photos on site, as the Johns wish to protect Wright’s expressions.
• A famous encounter: A party crasher dressed as the Grim Reaper is deeply frightened when a Polaroid shows his face replaced by an even scarier skeleton. He leaves immediately—a classic example of the ghost’s mischievous, protective energy.

8. The Legacy, Artsy Gallery, and Unsolved Mysteries (56:57 – 59:48)

• As of today, the Johns (likely still living there) possess over 15,000 paranormal Polaroids.
• The film is now discontinued; digital photos sometimes show results, but are less compelling due to easy manipulation.
• Thousands of photos were displayed at a 2007 art gallery showing; some are featured in the book “Polaroid Ghosts and Other True Paranormal Tales” by Jo Augustine.
• Netflix’s “Surviving Death” (S1E5) covers the case, and host interviews are available for further context.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the ghost’s artistic choices:
  “It looks like the most ghost, costumey ghost ever...someone wearing a sheet over their head with eyes then the mouth drawn in like Sharpie.”
  Karina, 15:37

• On debunkers:
  “It makes me want to take the Polaroid and smack the skeptics across their faces. I would love, like, really, Gent? Because I don't want to hurt anyone.”
  Sabrina, 09:42

• On paranormal proof:
  “How does it not then [prove ghosts are real]? What would convince people that they are?”
  Sabrina, 34:44

• On the ghost’s kindness:
  “Keep going. Anything is possible.”
  Wright, via Polaroid; 46:01

• On communicating with ghosts as a career:
  “I'd start a GoFundMe: give me money for film packs because I have to non stop communicate, like, what is this?”
  Sabrina, 28:18

• On the spirit’s signature:
  “When we asked, what is your name? It spells out W, R, I, G, H, T.”
  21:48

• The ghost pranking the party skeptic:
  “As the photo developed, people noticed something quite scary form on top of the guy's face...as if Wright stepped in front of him, changed what he looked like to be a horrifying skeletal body.”
  Karina, 44:03

---

Listener Stories Segment (62:33 – 66:43)

• Sabrina reads a listener-submitted story from Lily, a professional psychic medium, about capturing the ghost of a teenage skateboarder named Xavor on camera during a paranormal class at an old mill arcade.
• Xavor flirts with the medium, humorously noting, “Well, technically in your time, I'm older than you.”

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:16 – 04:43: Bigfoot news & horror movie review
• 08:26 – 10:21: Introduction to the Polaroid Ghost case
• 15:14 – 18:38: Description of the first ghost photo & friend reactions
• 20:00 – 21:30: YES photo and the first direct ghost responses
• 25:05 – 27:26: Name revelation (“Wright”) and deepening communication
• 29:45 – 38:23: “Sightings” show investigation and skeptic debunk attempts
• 41:07 – 45:27: Halloween parties, the Grim Reaper photo, and ghostly humor
• 46:01 – 47:39: Ghost encouragement and emotional support for the Johns
• 56:57 – 59:48: Gallery show, legacy, and surviving evidence
• 62:33 – 66:43: Listener story: “Teen ghost caught on camera”

---

Podcast Tone & Language

• Playful, witty, and candid; lots of banter and mutual ribbing—it’s like joining your best friends for a spooky sleepover.
• Deep respect for the subject and witnesses, but ready to poke fun at pretentious or closed-minded skeptics.
• Their language mixes pop-culture references with a genuine earnestness about the mysteries of the paranormal.

---

Conclusion

The Polaroid Ghost story remains one of the most enduring and evidential hauntings in modern paranormal lore—a friendly ghost communicating in real time through physical media, witnessed, tested, and still unexplained. Despite exhaustive investigations, Wright’s playful, poignant messages persist as a testament to the unknown, offering encouragement to the living and fuel for endless debate among believers and skeptics alike.

The hosts encourage anyone with ghost photos or stories to submit them and highlight the importance of open-minded curiosity. Are you ready? As Wright might reply: maybe not yet.

---

For further exploration:

• Sightings, Season 1, Episode 10: “Ghostwriter”
• Netflix, Surviving Death S1E5
• “Polaroid Ghosts and Other True Paranormal Tales” by Jo Augustine
• Wendy's Coffee House Curious Podcast (interview with John Huckert)

---

Summary compiled true to the episode’s spirit and structure, highlighting every haunting detail, and—right—where it belongs (58:49).

Transcript

[Karina]

Ugh.

[Ad Voice]

You said you were over him, but his hoodie's still in your rotation.

[Karina]

It's time.

[Ad Voice]

Grab your phone, snap a few pics, and sell it on Depop. Listed in minutes with no selling fees. And just like that, a guy 500 miles away just paid full price for your closure. And right on cue.

[Sabrina]

Hey, still got my hoodie?

[Ad Voice]

Nope. But I've got tonight's dinner paid for. Start selling on depop. Where taste recognizes taste list. Now with no selling fees, payment processing fees and boosting fees still apply. See website for details.

[Sabrina]

This episode is brought to you by State Farm. You know, those friends who support your preference for podcasts over music on road trips. That's the energy State Farm brings to insurance. With over 19,000 local agents, they help you find the coverage that fits your needs so you can spend less time worrying about insurance and more time enjoying the ride. Download the State Farm app or go [e-mail]. like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

[Karina]

Very spooky. Hello. Hello.

[Sabrina]

This is two girls on ghosts.

[Karina]

Two girls, one ghost. And we are your ghostesses. That is Corinne.

[Sabrina]

Hello, I'm Sabrina, and this just in.

[Karina]

What's in?

[Sabrina]

Brian texted me. I had already been seeing, like, bits and pieces of this online. There have been from March 6 to March 10, a surge in Bigfoot sightings in northeast Ohio. So someone out there knows something who's

[Karina]

got a private jet. Let's go. Let's go to Ohio. Instead of like a normal commercial flight.

[Sabrina]

It's like crazy. It's really close together. And I was reading about, it's like basically this 120 hour span of multiple Bigfoot sightings of just people, like, all.

[Karina]

I wonder if it also times out with, like, how nice the weather's been the last couple of days. Like, I'm showing leg, y'.

[Sabrina]

All. Yeah.

[Karina]

If you're watching, maybe Bigfoot, even Bigfoot's like, sunbathing, right?

[Sabrina]

Well, there was this one article about this. This woman and her daughter that were in their car driving, and then the creature, like, was in the road or, like passed by in the road, and it was so close that if the daughter had rolled down the passenger side window, she would have been able to reach out and touch Bigfoot. Also, there's a Bigfoot emoji coming.

[Karina]

I was gonna say that is. I thought that's where you were going.

[Sabrina]

No, it's just Bigfoot. We're in Bigfoot everywhere. Finally, the world is healing. Bigfoot is like entering a war. Bigfoot, man.

[Karina]

Finally making appearances and Is like, you know what? I've been mysterious for so long, it's finally time to sit down and have an interview.

[Sabrina]

Yeah, I would. What if we got to be the first people to interview Bigfoot?

[Karina]

Bigfoot, if you're listening, this is our audition. We would love to interview you.

[Sabrina]

I actually was just thinking because when I go on maternity leave, we were talking about how, like, we probably won't be able to actually realistically record everything ahead of time and potentially bringing in some other guests. And I was like, what if I had to do one without you being in here? I like pictured like putting on the wig on Sven, dressing Sven in like your clothes and pretending like true delusion.

[Karina]

Like literally just you alone with me. But yes, then me.

[Sabrina]

But then like, like we can at Bernie. Yeah. And then like pretend that your voice is responding. Like, have a full on conversation.

[Karina]

Okay, so like Lars and the real girl.

[Sabrina]

We were not going to do that.

[Karina]

I would, I would actually love to

[Sabrina]

see was like, I think that's what

[Karina]

I would have to do.

[Sabrina]

I don't know how to like hold a conversation by myself.

[Karina]

Oh, man, that's hilarious. I would love to see it. Who else would love to see that? Speaking of seeing things or hearing things? Seeing and hearing things. I went to go see such a scary movie. Oh yeah, that is so. It felt like the movie was about us. Like, you know that like TikTok, like, is this about us or whatever that euphoria.

[Sabrina]

Is this play about us?

[Karina]

Is this play about us? Like, that's literally how it felt. It is called Undertone. It's A24's new horror film all about a girl who's taking care of her, like, dying mother. But she's podcasting with someone across the world. He's in London, she's at home with her family. And every night they record the podcast, cross country, cross world, whatever, with headphones on. And it's a podcast about the paranormal. And I mean, it's very, very scary. It's like a. It's a sound horror.

[Sabrina]

They're slating it as the scariest movie you'll ever hear.

[Karina]

And they deliver.

[Sabrina]

Dang. I've had multiple people text me being like, this is so tgog coded. Like, this feels like two girls, one ghost. And I didn't see the movie. You went to a screener of the movie?

[Karina]

Yes, it was very nice. They invited both of us to go see it.

[Sabrina]

Surprise, surprise.

[Karina]

I didn't show up. And I was supposed to go with Ash from Morbid cause. Her and I are Watching Summer House every Wednesday. We do, like, Wednesday night, Summer House, but it happened to be on Wednesday, so I was like, oh, Ash, do you want to come with me to this movie instead? And then we ended up having to cancel, but I was like, I still

[Sabrina]

want to see it.

[Karina]

Am I brave enough? I'm trying to do things by myself.

[Sabrina]

So I went, which is so brave, especially given that it's a sound horror. And you went at night, and then you had to walk home. Home.

[Karina]

I literally was in the theater because it was also one of those Dolby theaters. So, like, you're. It's surround sound. It almost felt like the seats were shaking. It almost felt like 40. But there were multiple times during the movie that I was going like this, like, plugging my one ear because it was so loud.

[Sabrina]

Well, that's. Yeah, because that's also the thing. It's not just about, like, closing your eyes.

[Karina]

It's like. Right.

[Sabrina]

You can't just close your eyes and be like, I don't know what's happening. I don't know what those sounds are.

[Karina]

No, it was.

[Sabrina]

It's a sound horror.

[Karina]

I think sound horror is worse than anything.

[Sabrina]

Yeah. Well, I don't know the full plot and exactly what happens, but I think in the trailer, because they insinuate that, like, the girl is being sent these audio recordings, and, like, the guy is. This podcasting is, like, encouraging her to listen. I was like, oh, this feels like you showing me EVPs. I'm like, I don't think we should be listening to this. And you're like, but there's a demon on here. We got to.

[Karina]

Well, thank goodness I didn't see the movie before we did episode 365.

[Sabrina]

Or was that the one with the Reddit drowning stuff?

[Karina]

Yeah. Oh, 63. That was 63. That just came out. Because I think I would have gone into that very differently.

[Sabrina]

Yeah.

[Karina]

Yeah. Because the concept is a listener of their podcast, the undertone, sent them an email with, like, 10 audio files, but it's warned to not listen to all 10.

[Sabrina]

Do you just have to pick and choose?

[Karina]

No, no, no. They listen to all 10. Because it's like a story. It's like a. Oh, you have to listen to.

[Sabrina]

Could you cheat the system where it's like, I listen to five, you listen to five, and we tell each other about what happens on the other tapes?

[Karina]

I don't know. Do you want to risk it?

[Sabrina]

No, but I'm just wondering, like, is that possible?

[Karina]

You always looking for a cheat code. Yeah.

[Sabrina]

How do I not get Haunted but still get the content. How do I still experience it?

[Karina]

I hate.

[Sabrina]

But they listen to all 10.

[Karina]

Highly recommend. Very good.

[Sabrina]

They watch the tape 7 days later. Samara sucks.

[Karina]

That makes it well. Yeah. It's like the Ring, but audio.

[Sabrina]

Damn.

[Karina]

It's really, really good. That is very scary. Very good.

[Sabrina]

I definitely want to watch it, but it's going to be one of those things that I have to watch. Like in my home with the volume where I can mute it. Hereditary. Everyone's like, that was such a crazy, crazy, scary movie. Here's the thing. I watch it at home. Volume on like level two half the time. So I didn't get a scared.

[Karina]

It's like daylight. Sunlight coming in through the windows. Yeah.

[Sabrina]

So that's what I need for this.

[Karina]

The one thing that really freaked me out about this movie and I feel like we can relate to so much, is that when we were recording cross country, we would have headphones in.

[Sabrina]

Yes.

[Karina]

We would be recording at all hours either like late at night or early in the mornings. And when you have headphones in, you are kind of shutting out your real surroundings, which makes you more on edge.

[Sabrina]

Yes.

[Karina]

And they do a really good job of capturing how that feels in the movie.

[Sabrina]

That's great.

[Karina]

Terrifying.

[Sabrina]

It just reminded me of like we had an episode way back when where we got really scared over like my zipper started like moving on one of my bags. But it's probably literally nothing. It was probably like a car, like a heavy like mail truck or something driving by and the zipper started moving. But because we were in that situation in that scenario, it does make you more scared.

[Karina]

You're on edge.

[Sabrina]

Oh, now I really want to see the movie.

[Karina]

So good. Okay. I'm really excited for today's episode. I don't know how I've never heard of it and maybe you have. We have all heard of spirits communicating through a ouija board or EVPs or through psychics. But today I'm going to tell you about a case of a spirit communicating through Polaroid pictures.

[Sabrina]

Polaroid picture.

[Karina]

What began as a ghostly apparition caught on camera turned into full on messages appearing on these photos. Words, symbols, clues to a possibly buried body in the backyard.

[Sabrina]

Ooh, I just got chills.

[Karina]

And over the course of 30 plus years, more than 15,000 photos have been captured. Not just by one person. Multiple people have captured these photos and not a single person has been able to debunk it. Trust me, they have tried.

[Sabrina]

See, that's what's wild is when you can't debunk Certain things like this, like, we believe in the paranormal, obviously. We think there's a lot that can debunk.

[Karina]

Oh, my God.

[Sabrina]

What are we. We're almost at, like, nine years of being, like, goats are real. Don't you believe us? But when other people who come in with the, like, full intention of being like, there's absolutely no way that this can be real. What's the science? What's everything else? And no, there's no answers.

[Karina]

Oh, I know.

[Sabrina]

It makes me want to take the Polaroid and smack the skeptics across their faces. I would love, like, really, Gent? Because I don't want to hurt anyone.

[Karina]

There's some people I would love to hurt. That's true. Anyway, but we'll keep politics out of this. This is a very strange but oh so magical haunting of Glazel park and the Polaroid ghost named Wright W R I G H T. And also, while this does have moments of, like, scary horror, I think Wright is, like, maybe top five ghosts we've ever covered in terms of, like, ghost goals. Of, like, the type of ghost I want to be when I die.

[Sabrina]

Oh, wow. Yeah, Just chill guy communicating through pictures.

[Karina]

And also, like, great sense of humor.

[Sabrina]

Shout out Peter from the conjuring house.

[Karina]

Oh, yeah, you love Peter. I love Peter, and Peter loves you.

[Sabrina]

Peter, are you here? Drop dirt on my head again.

[Karina]

Peter might be haunting here still, we don't know. Also, shout out to our listener, Michaela, who's on Patreon, was messaging us and was like, have you guys ever covered this? I was trying to search it, and I couldn't find it. And I literally abandoned all plans for all the other episodes that I had to make this episode so great. This starts out with a couple of Johns, John Huckert and his partner John Batowski. Or Little John and Big John, as they, like, lovingly refer to them as.

[Sabrina]

Well, I love that. Yeah. Like a paranormal partner or a romantic partner, I think.

[Karina]

Romantic partner.

[Sabrina]

Oh, nice. The Johns.

[Karina]

It's like my friends the Kelsey's. Exactly. The Johns and the Kelsey. Um, there were a couple reports where they were like, they're roommates. And I'm like, they're roommates for 50 years plus sometimes. But I do believe that they're partners. Anyway, they bought and moved into a house in the Glasgow park area of Los angeles in the 1980s. And as many LA residents are. John Hucker. Well, both Johns were artists, they were writers, and John Huckert specifically was a filmmaker. He's done a lot of independent films, but this area Glasdell park was the perfect place to live as an artist. It has long been a place that many infamous artists called home. Like during the 60s and 70s, so many musicians like the Beach Boys roamed the streets. And John Hucker in an interview was like, well, there's no record of this, but I love to like, imagine that the Beach Boys came into this house and like, were inspired to write film or write their music. The point being this area has a lot of artistic energy and has through the years, which the Johns do credit to some of, like, the reason that it's haunted. Glasdell park is in northeast Los Angeles, tucked into the hills by Echo park and by Atwater Village. It's a quiet, artsy hillside with steep hills, winding streets, small bungalow homes. It has a.

[Sabrina]

It's still extremely artsy today. Yeah, there's a huge, like music scene out there now too.

[Karina]

It has a very peaceful, secluded energy amongst like the sometimes chaotic energy of la. Perfect place for the Johns to live. So they bought the house, they moved in and almost immediately they did start experiencing some hauntings, like knocking, like scratches, furniture, like, just sounds. It was mostly sounds, electrical issues, doors opening and closing, but like nothing that they couldn't immediately or try to write off as like, oh, it's a new house. Or like, we just moved in. We're not familiar with like, it's quirks. It's on a hill in la. The ground has probably shifted over the years. It's an old house. Things that they could write off.

[Sabrina]

Right. Which so many people do and can.

[Karina]

Yes. But there were times where it did feel uneasy. So like late at night they would hear shuffling in the attic, like, and it didn't sound like footsteps, but they kept trying to convince themselves that it was animals. Like a raccoon got in, you know,

[Sabrina]

just, just having lived in Lahn, who lives in the attic, the third John.

[Karina]

So they don't immediately jump to the paranormal. But John Huckard, I guess, like, would make jokes being like, one day I'm gonna prove to you that this place is haunted. And well, that day came 1992. So this is now like 12 years after living here. 10 plus years. John Hucker is sitting at his desk when the bathroom door opened on its own. And this is not the type of door you can open easily on its own. It's a old, like heavy wooden door that over the years, because of the way that the house has shifted, they've had to like, you kind of have to like pick up and lift.

[Sabrina]

Yeah. To open it a Little bit stuck

[Karina]

to the point where it like has like the floor has these like scratch marks from like dragging the door to open it. So not an easy door to open. No, it opens on its own. Jen's like, that's weird. Goes and closes the door, sits back down at his desk. Almost immediately upon sitting down, that bathroom door opens again easily on its own. John, who's no stranger to the like ongoings of this house and had lived there for some 10 years at this point, watches it open again and is like, what if this is a ghost? And it didn't help that he got this feeling that something was watching him. Like literally in front of his face. Now beside him was this Kodak Polaroid instant camera that his father had just gifted him for Christmas that year. So John decided to pick up the camera and snapped a photo. The photo that developed shocked him and we have photos. So for those of you who aren't watching, I will describe it to you and we'll post it on Instagram. But if you are watching, get ready. It is. Well, I'll show it to you. What in the world doesn't it look like? Exactly What a ghost. Like what we've made like the cartoon ghost to look like someone wearing a sheet.

[Sabrina]

It's like, well, and also they're in a very artsy area of la. Like my first thought would be like, someone's like, this is artwork that someone's making.

[Karina]

It's like a costume.

[Sabrina]

Totally. It like, it's like, isn't it like Phoebe Bridgers or whatever? Like all of her albums.

[Karina]

It looks like her album cover. It does.

[Sabrina]

Where she takes like childhood photos and like it puts ghosts on them.

[Karina]

I don't even need to describe the picture. That is the perfect way to describe.

[Sabrina]

That's what it looks like.

[Karina]

It looks like the most ghost, costumey ghost ever. Like someone wearing a sheet over their head with eyes then the mouth drawn in like Sharpie. But it also has this like white mist coming out from different angles, you

[Sabrina]

know, which ordinarily I would never like, I would default to being like, okay, well this is obviously not real, but I have a very distinct memory. And I know I talked about this in our, like when we did our Sabrina Part one, Sabrina Part two, Karina Part one, whatever, where we went through a bunch of our own personal hauntings. But when my family lived in a house in Littleton, New Hampshire and my dad was out of town and I was sleeping in my parents room in bed with my mom, I woke up one night in the middle of the night and a ghost that looked like the cartoon ghost was just floating across the wall. Right. Which now as an adult I'm like, is that just like that spirit's way of trying to present itself to me in the hopes would be not to scare a child, but still be like, I'm here, but it's terrifying anyway.

[Karina]

Or to make it clear to you, like, I am a ghost, but this is what you as a society draw ghosts to look like. So I'm gonna.

[Sabrina]

It's me, Casper.

[Karina]

Yeah, boo.

[Sabrina]

Your 10 year old boyfriend.

[Karina]

Okay, so this photo develops and John has the same reaction. He's like, what the heck? He can't believe it. It's like, so it feels like a joke.

[Sabrina]

Yeah.

[Karina]

So he took a second photo and this second photo shows almost the exact same form, but it is closer now.

[Sabrina]

Oh my gosh.

[Karina]

So it's getting closer to him. It almost like.

[Sabrina]

Which at this point I'm like, someone met. Like someone messed with the Polaroid.

[Karina]

That's his exact thought. So now he's trying to find rational reasoning and he immediately goes, okay, my dad gifted this camera to me. And my dad loves, like pranks. Loves pranks. Yeah, he for sure messed with it. So he calls his dad and calls his dad out and is like, ha, ha, very funny. How the heck did you do this? Like, how do you manipulate it to look like a ghost is on the film? And John's dad has no idea what John is talking about. He gave John this camera in the brand new packaging and. And the film was also like, in the packaging. And John Huckert had taken a bunch of photos with the same film, same camera prior to this, and nothing had shown up on those. So he's super confused. Yes, he believes the house is haunted, but this photo just feels unbelievable. So he tells Big John, John Matowski, and he shows him the two photos and Matowski's like, whoa, like, how'd you do this? Same response, like, must be like some art thing that little John is doing. And John is like, now I'm just

[Sabrina]

thinking of the rapper.

[Karina]

And John Huckert says, no, no, no, like I'm showing you this because I don't know how to explain this. And so then they go back up to that room and Matowski takes the picture for himself and he captures something very similar. So now the two of them are very speechless and have no idea what to do about it. So they just don't do anything. They don't talk to anyone about it. They just move on for a couple of months.

[Sabrina]

Weird anomaly. Either the pack or the camera.

[Karina]

Totally.

[Sabrina]

Definitely not the house. Right.

[Karina]

So for the next three to four months, the Johns keep quiet about it, although they start to feel that feeling of someone watching them more often. And eventually within those three or four months, when they feel that they would grab the camera and take a photo, almost half of the time they captured something. At one point, they even decided to go buy brand new film to make sure it wasn't an issue with the film. And still same thing. About half of their photos would develop this strange, misty presence. So now, four months after taking that first photo, they are finally like, and I love this so much. They're like, let's invite a couple friends over and show them. So I imagine that they texted their. Well, not texted. They phoned their friends on a landline and they were like, hey, we would love to host a dinner party. Like cocktails. Come on over. No context. Just like, let's hang out. They all get there just like, oh, we think we're going to hang out. But the Johns sit their friends down.

[Sabrina]

This is already something you would do.

[Karina]

Oh, for sure. And they're like, so we have something to show you all. I'm also picturing the scene in Modern Family when they bring home Lily for the first time and no one knows that they're adopting. And they do the Lion King presentation with Lily.

[Sabrina]

So good.

[Karina]

But yeah, so they're like, okay, everyone sit down. You have your cocktails, great. We have something to show you. And it's strange. They present the photos to their friends and all of their friends are like asking the questions that you've been asking. Like, oh, cool art thing. How'd you do this? And the Johns are like, no, no, no. We think there's a ghost in this house and we don't know what to do about it. But we don't want to sit on this by ourselves anymore. We needed to bring our friends in. On. In on it. Yeah, they have the best friends. Their friends are like asking a million questions. And they're like, well, do we think it's here with us right now? Is the ghost here with us? And after asking that question, someone's like, let's take a picture. They ask the question again. Is some. Is this spirit here with us right now? They take a picture. The thing that developed on this photo is something that the Johns had never experienced up until this point. All the previous photos have been like some iteration of a white mist or like the ghost looking entity. Something else appears on this photo. Three letters that formed A word Y E S as if in direct response to the question of whatever you are, are you here now look at this. Leia is my cat. But she runs my world. She runs my house and runs my heart. And I make sure to give her everything that she wants and make sure she's well fed. Which is why I feed Leah Smalls.

[Sabrina]

This podcast is sponsored by Smalls. Smalls Fresh Cat food is protein packed recipes made with preservative free 100% human grade ingredients. Things that you would find in your fridge. And it's delivered right to your door. And that's why cats.com named Smalls their best overall cat food. And for a limited time, you can get 60% off your first order plus free shipping when you head to smalls.com

[Karina]

TGOG Leia's a big bird girl. She loves her chicken, her duck.

[Sabrina]

I know. And she's targeted birds for years.

[Karina]

She's a huntress. Huntress. But she gets it delivered to her in in a bowl. And I guess it delivered to me at my front door because Smalls shipping is so quick, so easy. She goes wild for it, like meowing up a storm. She's so happy by it.

[Sabrina]

So you guys should try Smalls too. For your cats. Stop guessing which meals will upset their stomach for a limited time because you're a two girls from a ghost listener. You can get 60% off your first order plus free shipping when you head to smalls.com TGOG one last time. That's 60% off your first order plus Free shipping when you go to smalls.forward/tgog

[Karina]

it's that time of year where you're looking at your expenses and you're really trying to set budgets and goals and start saving better. And that is why I love we love Rocket Money. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings. I recently started setting like this is how much I want to spend each month on food. This is how much I want to spend on clothing. And so I set those budget goals and every week Rocket Money sends me an update and lets me know how I'm staying on track or where I can be better about staying in budget.

[Sabrina]

It's so great because you can create those budgets, you can create customizable categories, and then also you can cancel those unwanted subscriptions. And actually they have saved users over $880 million in canceled subscriptions. Damn. The app also consolidates checking savings loans Investments into one single dashboard. So it can give you a really clear view of your financial picture.

[Karina]

Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings. Let Rocket Money help you reach your financial goals faster. [e-mail] TGOG that's RocketMoney.com TGOG RocketMoney.com TGOG oh, my God.

[Sabrina]

This is so.

[Karina]

It's wild.

[Sabrina]

Like, my brain.

[Karina]

I know.

[Sabrina]

Can't.

[Karina]

I know.

[Sabrina]

Okay, but also. Okay, but here's another question. Is the house haunted or is the camera haunted? Because I'm like, if they bought a whole new Polaroid camera, not just film pack, would they still be experiencing this?

[Karina]

Yes.

[Sabrina]

Okay, so it's the house, not just the camera.

[Karina]

Yes.

[Sabrina]

So I'm like, can you take the camera?

[Karina]

Let me just show you the photo. The ghost gave you same answer? Yes.

[Sabrina]

Yes.

[Karina]

Dang. Everyone's obviously shocked, and there's probably skeptics among the group. You know, they're asking questions, but they love their johns. They're. They're not thinking the johns are pulling a prank, but they're like, there's gotta be some explanation. So they start.

[Sabrina]

Or they're just like, you know, they. They screwed with the pack and they put, yes, no, planning on us asking a bunch of questions.

[Karina]

But then they start asking more questions, and someone grabs the camera and asks, are you a good or bad ghost? They snapped the photo, and a single word appeared in the middle of the room. In the photo. It said friend. So it's not just yes or no.

[Sabrina]

It didn't say bad bitch.

[Karina]

It didn't say bad bitch. It said friend. They stared at the photo and they were examining it and, like, because maybe they were like, oh, they wrote something on top of the Polaroid, put somehow sealed it back up. And then the word stayed in the photo. But no, the word is not on top of the Polaroid. It is in the photo, meaning that it's existing in the room and they're capturing it on the camera.

[Sabrina]

Oh, interesting. So it's literally like a light anomaly that's being captured that they can't see

[Karina]

with their own eyes, but the camera can see.

[Sabrina]

There's no scratch marks or anything on the actual. Wow. And so now I understand why people are like, there's no way to debunk this.

[Karina]

And it gets even crazier. Like, when people do try to debunk it, it's like, no one has been able to prove that it's not real.

[Sabrina]

Right. And little John isn't there with, like, a sparkler spelling out friend as they have, like, no, no.

[Karina]

So they're all like, this is wild. It looks so similar to the, like, ectoplasmy white mist ghost images, but now it's in letters written in, like, cloudy letters. And I don't have all of these photos because they're not all available online. I do think that a book was published in some recent years with more photos, but it was really hard to find. Like, it's not available on Kindle.

[Sabrina]

Oh, shoot.

[Karina]

Or it wasn't easy enough to find. Like, oh, I can get it delivered to me before the episode.

[Sabrina]

Yeah.

[Karina]

But we do have plenty of photos. That is more than enough. And I'm sure you can find more online. But. Okay, so they keep asking questions. This is all happening that same night. They're asking more questions of the spirit. And they ask, what is your name? And it spells out W, R, I, G, H, T. And we do have a photo of that.

[Sabrina]

Interesting. You know what I've just noticed is the first response, yes was all capital. And now they're writing their name in lowercase.

[Karina]

Interesting.

[Sabrina]

I don't know what that means. I mean, I go back and forth between the two as well.

[Karina]

Well, but a W also lowercase. And cap looks the same, but ye,

[Sabrina]

the E for yes, I know, but

[Karina]

I'm saying, like, oh. Like, all of the letters were correct. Oh, yes, yes, yes. Maybe it was like mirroring a Ouija board. I don't know.

[Sabrina]

Yeah, I don't. I.

[Karina]

So then they asked, where do you go when you're not here? And it spelled out. Or like, the picture had flux. So they were like, does that mean, like, in flux? Like, what does that mean?

[Sabrina]

Yeah.

[Karina]

When they asked, are you a ghost or a spirit? The response on the image said, not ready. So everyone in the room was like, does that mean that right's not ready to tell us?

[Sabrina]

Or are we not ready to hear?

[Karina]

Or are we not ready to hear? You would do so well in this group.

[Sabrina]

Put me in, coach.

[Karina]

So whatever it was, the Johns were feeling very validated by the end of this night. Cause they're like, it was a real risk telling our friends. They might have left here being like, wow, those pranksters. Or, oh, no, we need to get them help.

[Sabrina]

But now every time something happened, ever since they bought that house, the jot's never been the same.

[Karina]

Is there lead in the walls?

[Sabrina]

Right? There probably is in the paint, probably.

[Karina]

But they feel validated. And, like, now there are Multiple witnesses. But it also leaves them feeling a little bit dazed. They're like, great, we have confirmation we're not crazy. But at the same time we feel even crazier because what does this mean?

[Sabrina]

Also, like, I would quit my job and just stay home and communicate with the ghost all the time.

[Karina]

Well, they.

[Sabrina]

I started GoFundMe be like, if give me money for film packs because I have to non stop communicate, like, what is this? How is this happening?

[Karina]

Well, then this is another thing that sets the Johns apart in this case. Is they truly. Yes, they. I'll get into in a minute. But they never took money for sharing this story. So they weren't making up a hoax for financial gain.

[Sabrina]

They weren't setting up like a house where it's like, enter for $5 and take a blurry picture, Ask a question, get the answer. No, guys, I can't say. I'd say I'd do the same. I think I was trying to find them. I'd be like, do you want to get in on this? It would be like the show Ghosts where like, Trevor's making money in the ghost world, buying the computer. I'd be like, we have to set up some sort of thing. Like, I'll buy you what you want, but like, you gotta help me out.

[Karina]

I mean, in this economy, you gotta find a side hustle, right?

[Sabrina]

You gotta get the dead in on it too.

[Karina]

They don't. So just keep that in mind. If you're out there being like, I don't believe it, they did this for money. Okay?

[Sabrina]

So even if they did it doesn't mean it's not true. True and happening.

[Karina]

Okay? But this leaves them in a daze because it like, profoundly changed them and like their perception of reality. But it also didn't give them an answer to what that change was. It was like leaving them in limbo of like, what does this mean? They went on to take hundreds of photos of Wright within, like the next couple of months. A variety of his apparitions. Some words, including words in Latin which neither of them spoke.

[Sabrina]

Is this what it meant by saying, like, you're not ready? Because maybe it was some sort of. Not a demonic person. Well, not that demons can't be friendly too. That's true. But it was something else. It was neither ghost nor spirit. It was something more ancient or just. And tethered to the ether. It's in flux.

[Karina]

Or are they neither ghost or spirit? Are they something that there aren't even words for?

[Sabrina]

Right.

[Karina]

Anyway, at the same time as this is happening and they're capturing these photos and just, like, left with these lingering questions. There was a show on TV called Sightings. It was a paranormal and news TV show that began in October of 1991. And it covered all sorts of topics. UFOs, Bigfoot, ghosts. Is this play about us again? John Hucker was watching an episode of the show that featured pictures of something unknown. And I guess on the show they were questioning, is this a picture of a ghost? And it looked nothing like the photos that John's had been capturing at their house. So John Hucker decides, I'm just gonna email the show and mail over a copy of one of our photos and just like, be like, what is this? Naturally, the Sightings crew is like, hey, Johns, what's up? Can we come interview you? Can we come to your house? Can we do a live segment on your ghost?

[Sabrina]

Which I think is incredible because I think there's a lot of people that might have been mailed that though it's like, this is clearly fake. Fake. Like, not worth our time following up on.

[Karina]

But also at the time, I imagine that, like, even if it was fake, Sightings was like, we'll get to debunk them.

[Sabrina]

Oh, yeah.

[Karina]

So the Sightings crew sets up to do an hour long satellite live show from their Glaszell park home. The episode aired on February 5, 1993. It's season one, episode ten, called Ghostwriter. If anyone wants to go watch it.

[Sabrina]

And this punny because the guy's name is right.

[Karina]

I know I saved one pun for the very end of the episode.

[Sabrina]

Okay, I won't try to guess any. I'll let you.

[Karina]

But trust me, it was there right for the take in. Okay, so the segment was an investigation into what they called the Polaroid ghost case. And that's kind of like what it's become. A camera Expert took over 1,000 photos on this segment that showed mysterious, inexplicable forms. 1,000. It was in this episode and during the filming that the Johns were introduced to a psychic named Peter James. And in the episode, Peter claims, like, from his, like, psychic reading of the home and of the spirit that he believed two things. One, there absolutely was a spirit in this house. And two, there was a body buried on the property.

[Sabrina]

Damn, what a mystery.

[Karina]

Which the Johns didn't love that part. And also, I think it's important to note that in theory we hear that, and it's so easy to be like, dig up the whole backyard. But in reality, that's. It's not practical to do.

[Sabrina]

No, guys, it costs $5,000 to take down one tree here in the north shore of Massachusetts.

[Karina]

Plus it's LA on hills.

[Sabrina]

Like, we could have 20 bodies back there. If I can't do it with my own little plastic shovel from the beach, it's not happening.

[Karina]

Or if someone else is not paying for it and doing it. Yeah, it's not happening.

[Sabrina]

But they have LIDAR technology and stuff. Get a volunteer again. Volunteer?

[Karina]

Who has that? I don't know.

[Sabrina]

A guy that went to the conjuring. The guys from the ghost shows? Yeah.

[Karina]

They have money.

[Sabrina]

Yeah.

[Karina]

Okay. So the episode aired and of course, skeptics and cynics come out of their basements and they're like, I can debunk it. Spoiler, they can't. But we're talking investigators, photographers, even Kodak and Polaroid themselves send their experts to study the camera and the film.

[Sabrina]

Is anyone trying anything else? Like EVPs? Just a camcorder?

[Karina]

Don't know. It seems like he. I mean, I don't know. To answer that question, I don't know,

[Sabrina]

because there's so much happening on film that I'm curious if that was just the sole focus or if they were like, okay, let's try other forms of communication and trying to capture things. Because I would. With how active it is, I would almost like assume that you could have a conversation through an old school tape recorder or something.

[Karina]

Probably set up a walkie talkie. I didn't watch the two, so there's two TV shows about it and I didn't watch either. So I don't know. But apparently John Hucker does a lot of interviews, so I feel like we could reach out to him and talk and ask. Even the FBI sent someone to try to debunk this.

[Sabrina]

Oh, my God.

[Karina]

At first people were like, there's some type of, like, chemical, like contamination, or there's light leaks, or the johns are intentionally manipulating the camera in the film. Every person who studied the camera, studied the film, or even tried to take their own photos could not disprove the images. Which to me means they proved it's real. Yeah, but unfortunately, this doesn't 100% prove ghosts are real. But I feel like that's B.S.

[Sabrina]

but how does it not then, right then, like, what would convince people that they are like, what do you need?

[Karina]

That's what's so challenging. I think people need personal experience. So you can believe in God, but you won't believe in ghosts.

[Sabrina]

Right? How many of you guys have seen a tiger up close? Do you not believe in tigers? Just because You've never seen one. You've seen it only on film.

[Karina]

I feel like that's a different argument. But how? Because literally we can physically see like they physically exist in the world.

[Sabrina]

But if you've never seen one with your naked eyes, you're just trusting that on camera and on film, that someone else's experience.

[Karina]

I can see how people don't relate tigers to ghosts. In terms of proof, I don't know.

[Sabrina]

Same. Same sort of thing.

[Karina]

But okay. So of course, people still continue to have skeptical response. They claim it's pareidolia, which is like when you. Your brain sees faces and similar things.

[Sabrina]

Right? Yeah. Our brain is like set for pattern recognition. So we're trying to make sense of what we're seeing.

[Karina]

Other people say it's like double exposure or damaged film. But upwards of hundreds of people brought their own cameras.

[Sabrina]

So any camera, not just this one.

[Karina]

Yes. So there's one debunking that was written up by the Georgia Skeptics Society. And they go, this is all so easily explained away. Let me read you what their easy explanation is. This was explained by taking a transparent sheet, coating it with India ink and paint, scraping away the part that you wanted visible, breaking the film cartridge to remove the individual photos and exposing them with the template in place using a flashbulb and then replacing them and gluing the box back together.

[Sabrina]

Just everyone's household photo lab, easy to do.

[Karina]

So then they.

[Sabrina]

It'd be one thing if it was only the johns in their camera, but now we have so many other people. So, like, that's just. That's hogwash.

[Karina]

Right, I agree. Thank you. Great use of hogwash. We need to bring back hogwash. Okay, so the Georgia Skeptics, they test this method, and I'm gonna show you what that looks like compared to what Wright's writing looks like. They're very different. Even the color is different. So if they're saying India ink, the color is different.

[Sabrina]

It's different. And it's also. It like looks more like someone's actually writing.

[Karina]

Right.

[Sabrina]

Like using a pen and ink and writing. Whereas, like the other one that was taken, that is thought to be. Right. The spirit coming through, it's almost like there's little marks and missing pieces within the letters themselves. Like it's very scratchy. Yes.

[Karina]

Either way, they're not the same. That's the point. And it doesn't explain the countless skeptics who came in with their own cameras, their own brand new film, and caught the same results. Film was literally taken from Sealed boxes. Questions were asked out loud by anyone. So, like, say you invited 10 people over, you know, two of them. You brought a camera, brand new. Brand new film. You put the film in, and then someone you don't know asks a question out loud. You snap a picture. You don't know the question that this stranger is going to ask. The response on the photo is in direct response to that question that you had no knowledge was going to be asked. Proof.

[Sabrina]

Yeah, that's like, what else? Okay, maybe my tiger analogy didn't work. But, like, what about a deep sea creature? How many people get to see those?

[Karina]

That's better, right? I can get on board with that.

[Sabrina]

There's a few photos, a few witnesses, and we just have to believe them.

[Karina]

Right? Like, what's that shrimp that can see, like, a million different colors?

[Sabrina]

Oh, yeah. Oh, God, what a trippy life. What are they seeing?

[Karina]

Yeah, everything.

[Sabrina]

What if that's the only animal that actually understands the true meaning of life? Because they get to access all planes and.

[Karina]

But they're at the deepest part of the sea, so they can't see what's up here.

[Sabrina]

How do you know that?

[Karina]

Good question. How do we know what we don't know? Okay, so the Johns knew people would be skeptical, but they also didn't really care because they knew what they'd captured was real. And they weren't at this to try to, like, convince people. They were, like, all good. We know what's going on to us, and that's all that matters. They even stopped doing interviews because they were like, I don't want to hear from skeptics anymore. They were sick of these strangers calling them Charltons. And they really had no interest, again, on making money off of this. It was more of, like, a personal thing they were experiencing that they had offered to share with the world. So then they stopped taking interviews. They didn't entertain them, but they did entertain their friends. They started having friends over, and they were like, if you don't believe us, come on over, test it out yourselves. And they started throwing Halloween parties every year where they would invite their friends. There is a video on YouTube of. It's like an hour long, and it's like a home video from their 1993 Halloween party. And it's, like, going through the house. There's, like, tons of Polaroids on the table, and people are talking about it. They're examining the pictures. It is so cool. Like, I wish. That's my dream, right? Dream Halloween party. So they're throwing these Halloween parties. They invite, like, Plenty of guests and friends to take photos. But they did make a rule because I think they didn't want. They didn't want other people monetizing off of this. Like, and also they felt like this spirit and like these photos were theirs. And I understand that. So they made a rule that was basically like, bring your cameras, take your photos, but if you do capture anything, the photo belongs to the house. Sure. Like, over the years, some people were able to escape with their photos. But I think also keeping record, keeping record.

[Sabrina]

And then I also understand the idea that, well, that's a piece of this spirit soul.

[Karina]

Exactly.

[Sabrina]

It's their opportunity to communicate. And it's not like we're just coming to. To take rocks and shells off the beach and put it in our own house and parade it around. Like, this is. This is like part of their life, even if we don't view their life as the same as living in our bodies.

[Karina]

Yeah, I totally. I get it. And so like now they have thousands of photos. Like I said in the beginning, there's over 15,000 photos. Damn, 15,000.

[Sabrina]

Have they put them all together in any sort of way?

[Karina]

So I'll get to that at the end. And then I think they are like a chronological in the book. There's a lot more of them.

[Sabrina]

I'm picturing like our like 2007 middle school graduation where like they do the big slideshow. Then there's like the emotional song at the end. Just flipping through all the good photos.

[Karina]

Yeah. Or like a Facebook album.

[Sabrina]

Yeah. Half the people are drunk.

[Karina]

For sure. They're blurry. I mean, kinda. Okay, so there is one story about one Halloween party that this is like, this exemplifies why on top of everything we already heard about. Right. But this is the reason that right has made it to the top five on my, like, when I'm dead, I want to be like you aspirations. So I'm not sure what year this was, but one year. Oh, and I should credit. So I heard this on an interview with John Huckert himself on a podcast called Wendy's Coffee House Curious Podcast.

[Sabrina]

Ooh, that sounds fun.

[Karina]

And I'll link it in the show notes for everyone. So again, I'm not sure what year this was, but one year someone showed up to the Johns Halloween party and they're dressed up as the Grim Reaper.

[Sabrina]

No, full on face paint, not sheet ghosts, not like. Right.

[Karina]

And this guy, like, the Johns don't even know who he is to this day. They don't know who this guy was because he was so Full out costume. But it is very clear from the get go that whoever this Grim Reaper guy is, he is a skeptic. He has come to this party to mock the Johns.

[Sabrina]

He wasn't invited. He's crushing it as the Grim Reaper,

[Karina]

which is something that happened a lot because, like, they did make a comment. They were like, what started as, like, inviting 10 friends turned into 200 people coming to this Halloween party.

[Sabrina]

Oh, dang.

[Karina]

Yeah.

[Sabrina]

Oh, it's like my high school Halloween parties.

[Karina]

Me too. I had one. I had one. And then my dad, who was never really home at the time, like, randomly flew home from his work trip and caught us, like, sneaking alcohol in the laundry room in the basement. And he kicked out everyone.

[Sabrina]

Oh, no.

[Karina]

And I screamed at him. This is like the most iconic me teenage girl moment. I screamed at him while everyone was still there. Now you get to pretend you're like a dad.

[Sabrina]

Did that feel so good?

[Karina]

Oh, it felt so good.

[Sabrina]

You gotta keep that pact away.

[Karina]

I screamed at him.

[Sabrina]

So you had, like a true high school party. And mine was more people. Like, I literally just whoever from any high school, anyone at my high school was invited to come to my house to go trick or treating.

[Karina]

Oh, no. This was like a party party.

[Sabrina]

Yeah.

[Karina]

No, and mine was like, everyone was

[Sabrina]

like, we're 15 and we're still after the Twix bars. Oh, you're so pure. Yeah, but like, I wasn't drinking. But it doesn't mean when you invite 200 people, the other people aren't. Like, there were certainly things found in our basement and, like, around our property. But, like, my parents opened it to other parents too, so, like, anyone's parents could also come and just like post up. Everyone was partying, they were drinking and party. The parents, whatever. You were bringing the right energy that my parents were bringing into the garden.

[Karina]

Yeah, that's parent energy. Okay, but. So he clearly is a skeptic and he's kind of teasing the believers and mocking the spirit. But then, and I am so sad I don't have this photo. I'm sure it exists somewhere. But then someone takes a photo of this guy in the grim reaper costume, and what developed in the photo scared this guy so badly, he instantly left the party.

[Sabrina]

Fuck.

[Karina]

Yes.

[Sabrina]

Right?

[Karina]

Yes. So as the photo developed, people noticed something quite scary form on top of the guy's face. Like he's in grim reaper paint. But it was as if Wright stepped in front of him, changed what he looked like to be a horrifying skeletal body.

[Sabrina]

Oh, my gosh, he's Bringing in that, like, black mirror.

[Karina]

Like, horror.

[Sabrina]

Yeah.

[Karina]

Like te. But, like, almost mocking him back.

[Sabrina]

Oh, my gosh, I like that.

[Karina]

Again, go schools.

[Sabrina]

Ghoul goals.

[Karina]

Wow, that's hard to say. Ghoul goals.

[Sabrina]

I mean, it just reminds me of everyone who looks in the scrying mirror that Greg and Dana Newkirk have, where it's like, sometimes people get really pleasant experiences if they're bringing in a certain energy, maybe.

[Karina]

And then others get scary things.

[Sabrina]

Get very scary things.

[Karina]

So he basically mocked the skeptic right back. One upped his costume, and then the Grim reaper went home crying like a baby all the way home. Eventually, like I said, because so many people were showing up to these parties, the Johns did stop hosting the Halloween parties because they were, like, slowly, like, little tchotchkes from their home would go missing, and it was no longer a fun Halloween thing. It was, like, dreading what would happen.

[Sabrina]

Right. So they stopped. They don't have to fun. They're walking around being like, who are you? Did you take anything? Any of my property? Like, did anyone go upstairs? Like, yeah, that's stressful.

[Karina]

But that did not mean they stopped communicating with the spirit.

[Sabrina]

No.

[Karina]

Another reason that Wright is on my ghoul goals top five list is because beyond his playful antics and ability to show up in so many photos, he loved the Johns. And he was so encouraging. Both Johns are, like, struggling artists. They're writers who went through, like, all these different phases of self doubt or writer's block. Mm. And Wright would give them messages to encourage them. I love this things like, keep going or anything is possible. Look.

[Sabrina]

What. Or you know what's crazy is this handwriting reminds me a lot of yours.

[Karina]

Thank you. I'm actually write the ghost.

[Sabrina]

Like, your handwriting's a little different because it's more, like, slanted and a little bit more, like, uniform. But the general shape and kind of, like, vibe of the letters reminds me of your handwriting.

[Karina]

Am I actually my goal ghoul. And this is.

[Sabrina]

What is this? You in the future, but it's also the past.

[Karina]

What is time?

[Sabrina]

What is time exactly?

[Karina]

It's me.

[Sabrina]

Get a forensic handwriting person. Okay.

[Karina]

Well, this actually. This is the first time I really looked at this photo. This is interesting because. So we're looking at the anything is possible text. Doesn't it almost look like there's, like, other words that aren't fully formed? It's like it's capturing the thought of the spirit, and the spirit is, like, projecting one thought. But because there's many thoughts, they're not like, they're there, but they're not clear.

[Sabrina]

Yeah.

[Karina]

Doesn't it kind of feel like that?

[Sabrina]

You know what this reminds me of? But obviously it's a little bit different because this is also in English and, like, human words. But arrival, when the aliens are, like, with their ink, like, shapes. Shapes, yeah. It's, like, forming and blending. And, like, not all of it maybe is the actual, like, character or language. Like, there's. It's like the thought form, and that

[Karina]

also plays in time and. Amy Adams.

[Sabrina]

Ooh, Amy Adams. Are you right?

[Karina]

Whatever it is, it's right. Okay. So he also would say, like, invoke the muse, or I'm here for you. Which we have. I am here for you too. Photo.

[Sabrina]

Yeah. So they all come. It's not just like, it's writing, there's splotches all over, but it's all kind of. In that sense, sort of like circle. Like, it's like a thought bubble.

[Karina]

It's a thought bubble. So it's clear that over the years, the Johns and Wright became friends, which I think is really, really beautiful. And I'm sure you're curious, like, as the Johns ended up being. Who the heck is Wright? Both Johns, they're curious. So they go and do research into the history of the house. And this is after they had captured the word right. When they asked what his name was. They go to city hall, they search through records and find previous owners of the home. I think they had found four previous owners. Guess what? One of their last names was Wright. Yeah.

[Sabrina]

Oh, my gosh.

[Karina]

And I did see two, like, conflicting reports about this. I'm pretty sure on the Wendy's Coffee House Curious podcast, John Hucker says specifically one of the previous owners names was right. But in another article that I read said that, like, back in the 1800s, there was a fam, like the Wright family, who had, like, settled on this land. Either way, they found evidence of someone with direct correlation to this property and this land with the last name Wright.

[Sabrina]

Well, also, given the time period and stuff and, like, a body being on the property, I don't think it's out of the question that maybe one of the original owners, the original family, the Wrights, had a relative pass away, or someone in the family passed away. Maybe they had, like, a property burial, backyard burial, or, like, burial doesn't even need to be, like, an actual body in the ground. Like, what if it was just like, oh, they love the spot below the tree. We're gonna dump their ashes. Cremated.

[Karina]

Yeah. 100%. We'll get back to that in a minute, too. But there were no reports of any family members or, like, owners dying on, like, in the property. But as we know, you don't have to die on a property to haunt it.

[Sabrina]

No.

[Karina]

And other than that, there wasn't much more that they find about this person. Right. But both Johns are, like, this connection is, like, too much of a coincidence. Like, this is the spirit we're talking to, and I need to make it known that the name Wright developed on the film far before they had done any research into the history of the home. So it's not like if people are skeptical, like, oh, they knew that beforehand and then they manipulated the film. No, they had no idea.

[Sabrina]

But, like, I understand that that's something you have to trust because they say that they have no idea, but you have to trust them that they.

[Karina]

Yes.

[Sabrina]

Had no idea.

[Karina]

Yeah, I'm sure you could find, like, when they access the records, because you have to, like, go check into the library. You know, if you really wanted to be, like, the skeptical person.

[Sabrina]

Sabrina, I think you are the most complimented podcast host in the world on your outfits. And people always ask you where you got them from.

[Karina]

I be shopping on Revolve all the time. Their delivery is so fast. Their clothes are also incredible. They have brands that you love, Boys, lie, free people, a Goldie Levi's. We're going to south by Southwest. And, you know, my outfit is from Revolve.

[Sabrina]

So you got me into shopping on Revolve. I'm less of a talented shopper online, but one thing that they have done that makes it so much easier for me is that you can shop by vibe. So you can choose, like, date night or night out or vacation. And then they have curated suggestions based on, like, what you click and what you purchase, which is making it so much easier. And they also just launched their own label called Revolve La. And it's really chic. The silhouettes are strong and modern, very polished, very confident. And it's the kind of stuff that you would put on when you want to look expensive, especially for, like, a dinner or an event where, you know, photos are happening.

[Karina]

Whether it's a big night out, a wedding, a trip, or you just need something last minute that actually works. Revolve always has it. Go to Revolve.com TGOG to shop our faves and use code TGOG for 15% off your first order. And definitely check out the new Revolve LA label while you're there. Fast shipping, easy returns. It just makes everything easier. That's Revolve.com TGOG. You can shop our faves and get 15% off your first order. Offer ends May 3, so don't miss out. Are you hungry?

[Sabrina]

Always.

[Karina]

Let me tell you about my tortellini with truffle cream sauce that I made last night, all thanks to Home Chef.

[Sabrina]

I know.

[Karina]

It was so delicious.

[Sabrina]

He sent me a picture. It looked incredible.

[Karina]

It was so good. And I felt like I was a professional chef in my kitchen. Like chopping, cutting, but also it's, like, so simple and quick. It's not complicated at all.

[Sabrina]

No. Home Chef makes cooking easier because they have fresh food delivered, easy recipes to follow, and meals that actually taste great and people really love it. Home Chef is rated number one by users of other meal kits for quality, convenience, value, taste, and recipe ease. I definitely go for some of their, like, quick and easy meals under 30 minutes. And they're so delicious. And Home Chef has over 30 meal options each week to choose from that taste delicious. And you can also tailor it to your diet. So like Sabrina does vegetarian, I say gluten free, plus it's affordable.

[Karina]

So for a limited time, Home Chef is offering our listeners 50% off and free shipping for your first box, plus free dessert for life. Go to homechef.com TGOG that's home chef.com TGOG for 50% off your first box and free dessert for life. Homechef.com TGOG must be an active subscriber to receive free dessert. Back to the body buried in the backyard. So, like, they find the name, right? They can't get this thing out of their head that Peter James, the psychic that they met on sightings, had said of a body being buried in the backyard. If you own a house and someone tells you that, like, you might not necessarily do something, but it's always going to live in the back of your mind.

[Sabrina]

Yes.

[Karina]

So one night in 1994, they decide to outright ask, right, the ghost about this. They ask, is there a body? Where is it? And they took a photo with ominous words on it. I couldn't find the specific one, but there's one that says, like, dig here. The one I did find says dig. So as they're asking about the body,

[Sabrina]

it does make it seem like there's an actual body, right? Or like some sort of evidence in

[Karina]

this photo, like, there are multiple people here. They've set up folding chairs. Like, there are witnesses to this.

[Sabrina]

This is reminding me of that one girl on TikTok. Do you remember when she. There Was like something happening paranormally and then she found like a rolled up rug.

[Karina]

Katie Santry.

[Sabrina]

Yeah. Yeah. And they had to ended up being nothing but like, it. Well, was it nothing? I don't know. But like, it was very mysterious.

[Karina]

Yeah. She started a podcast.

[Sabrina]

It didn't result in a dead body.

[Karina]

Like, everyone, we're friends on TikTok.

[Sabrina]

Hi.

[Karina]

I actually saw a TikTok the other day where it was like a girl went viral and became like TikTok famous because she thought a body was buried in her backyard. So, yeah, I'm gonna post every single day, tell you the weird shit I'm having happen in my life. So let that be your motivation or Wright telling you, you can do it, you can do it. Invoke the muse. But okay, so they get these images and they're like, well, that only makes us further believe there for sure is a body in the backyard.

[Sabrina]

And.

[Karina]

And the area does have a long history of being farmland. And also, a body buried on the property doesn't equal murder. It could just mean like, like you're saying backyard home burial or like you're saying ashes. As of today, there have been no excavations done and so no discovery to really back up these claims. But. Okay, go back.

[Sabrina]

And John still live there.

[Karina]

The Johns, as far as I know, still live there.

[Sabrina]

I kind of hope they never leave the house.

[Karina]

They should never. Yeah. Unless they want to give it to us. Well, they would if they actually think I'm right and I need to live in that house in order to be able to haunt it in the future, but also in the past.

[Sabrina]

That's true. Anyway,

[Karina]

one other story that. So Peter James, the psychic that they met on sightings, they became really good friends with him and he passed away in 2007, but shortly before his death. And like, he didn't know he was going to die. Like, this wasn't like an illness that was progressing. No, like he passed away of a heart attack. But sometime before he did die, he had gone over to the house in Glas El park and was spending time with the Johns and they were communicating with Wright. And one of the images said the text, like, it was like, directly to Peter James about, like, change your beliefs. And a couple weeks later, Peter James passed away. And the Johns theorized that Wright was almost like trying to get Peter to like, open his mind to a different belief in something because he was about to cross to the other side. Oh, yeah. I don't know what I mean, obviously, like, it's conjecture, but I just thought that that was Interesting.

[Sabrina]

That is interesting.

[Karina]

There's really no good way to wrap up this episode because it's technically ongoing. And as far as we know, the Jons still live in this house and experience hauntings with their ghostly roommate Wright. According to John Huckert, they often see shadowy figures in the home, which I couldn't find if it was like multiple at the same time or if it's one. And maybe that's like the physical that you can see with your eye station, but it doesn't seem to be scary. They all live in harmony. Unfortunately, that Polaroid film was discontinued and it's really hard to find.

[Sabrina]

So that specific film. Because I thought other people were coming in with their cameras.

[Karina]

Yeah. But I think it was like the film of that time, whatever, like type of film a lot of people were using at that time with cameras is discontinued. So like, yes, maybe they've been able to capture some photos. And also like cameras have changed a lot. And they do say they've caught some images on modern day digital cameras, but they're not as forthcoming with those because it's so easy to manipulate photos these days. But don't worry, there are upwards of some 15,000 Polaroid photos that were captured over the 30 plus years.

[Sabrina]

And then that's like, how do you have that many photos and still have people questioning that many professionals, that many skeptics coming in to disprove, but they can't. And there's 15,000 pieces of evidence just presented.

[Karina]

Yeah. So a lot of these photos are featured in the book called Polaroid Ghosts and Other True Paranormal Tales that's written by Jo Augustine. I couldn't find a copy easily, but there's an image of it in the YouTube video. And then also if you find one, let me know where because I would love one. And in 2007, they displayed the thousands, not all of them, but thousands of photos at a gallery in Glaszell park, like as an art exhibit. I don't know where the photos currently are. I imagine they're probably at their home, which I hope they have photocopies of all of them.

[Sabrina]

Right.

[Karina]

These are the types of things that are just like, I want them to

[Sabrina]

make a coffee table book.

[Karina]

We'll be in touch with the business idea because current is full of them.

[Sabrina]

Like that's a great way to present them all. You don't even have to write anything or just like the text underneath is just like the question that was asked and like the date that the photo was taken, if they kept record and

[Karina]

just, are you ready for my pun that I wrote.

[Sabrina]

Yes.

[Karina]

We don't know where these photos currently reside, but probably at home with the Johns and Wright. Right where they belong. Okay. Other than the feature on sightings back in 1993, the story is also featured on a Netflix show called Surviving Death, Season 1, Episode 5, where John Hucker does, like, go on and he talks about his experience. He's also done multiple interviews. You can listen to the episode of Wendy's Coffee House Curious, which is linked in the show notes. But for the most part, the Johns don't really talk to the media. And reminder for any of you out there who, like, they did it all for attention and money. They didn't profit from this story at all. Not a single person has been able to disprove these photos or the phenomena that was captured in the Glasdell park home. So what the hell does that mean? It means ghosts are real, and we'll slap you in the face with it.

[Sabrina]

It's just such a wild story because, like, people hope to capture photos, and it's like, here's, like, clear communication in a way that we don't normally get to see it.

[Karina]

Right.

[Sabrina]

And there's so many of them.

[Karina]

And it also feels like it takes. It's like the perfect storm where it took Wright, the spirit, being comfortable enough with the Johns, to want to appear. Like, clearly Wright has enough energy and, like, he doesn't show up in every picture, but he shows up with intention.

[Sabrina]

See some of himself in them. Yeah. I just keep going back to the question, are you a ghost or a spirit? And basically it's saying, like, not ready. You're not. You're not ready, or. Yeah, not ready. And now I'm thinking of arrival and all, like, the trippiness of time, and it's like, are they. Is this somehow, like, could it be one of them when one of they pass away and then they go back and communicate with them, with themselves, to, like, keep themselves going and, like, keep the artistic energy alive.

[Karina]

Oh, my God.

[Sabrina]

It's.

[Karina]

It's them being their biggest fans.

[Sabrina]

Yeah. And that's also why the skeptic was so scared, because it was like, they.

[Karina]

They're going back and reparenting themselves and

[Sabrina]

also trying to, like, get some of the, like, bad energy. And those people who are stressing, I love the Johns out to leave. I don't know, like, anything is possible.

[Karina]

Whatever it is, clearly they have such, like, a connection.

[Sabrina]

Yeah. Well, just because they're not ready, I'm, like, not ready for what? To understand that it's you from the future coming back to haunt yourself.

[Karina]

We're not ready.

[Sabrina]

We're not ready.

[Karina]

Not ready. Isn't that amazing?

[Sabrina]

Yeah.

[Karina]

Like, how had I never heard of that before? Had you heard of it before?

[Sabrina]

Yes, but, like, not in detail.

[Karina]

Right.

[Sabrina]

I think it was like, you know, like one of those TikToks. 15 second TikTok. Like this person communicated. They captured 15,000 photos, and it feels fake, so it didn't capture my attention.

[Karina]

I know, but it's real. That's crazy. So cool.

[Sabrina]

That is amazing. Okay, so based on the theme of this, I just. Luckily, we have many people who have also captured ghost photos and evidence. And so I just pulled one of the emails from someone who has captured something.

[Karina]

Well, that's the wildest thing about this story is like, there are so many people, as evidenced by our inbox.

[Sabrina]

Yeah.

[Karina]

Who have captured one off photos or like one off encounters with a spirit. But to capture 15,000 plus pieces of evidence is wild.

[Sabrina]

Unbelievable.

[Karina]

Yeah.

[Sabrina]

Like, we usually get here's two photos

[Karina]

or three photos, and sometimes it's hard to even see.

[Sabrina]

Right? Yeah. Right, Right.

[Karina]

Oh, this feels so right.

[Sabrina]

This is called Teen ghost caught on camera.

[Karina]

Okay.

[Sabrina]

I am a professional psychic medium. My friend who's also a medium, and I were teaching a paranormal investigation class at this old mill that we rent an art studio at.

[Karina]

That's the perfect place for an art studio. Oh, my gosh. You missed it. Yesterday on Campfire Stories, our listener Shauna shared a bunch of stories, but from their haunted tattoo shop in Tampa, Florida. And it was the coolest place ever.

[Sabrina]

Did you write down the place?

[Karina]

Because if you're ever in Tampa, here, I'll say it.

[Sabrina]

You should get a tattoo there.

[Karina]

But there's like so many ghosts at the tattoo shop. But also it was decorated so amazing. And I was like, did Shawna call

[Sabrina]

in from the tattoo shop?

[Karina]

Like, it's called Apotheke Tattoo Studio. She has a con, like a church confessional booth.

[Sabrina]

Oh, my God.

[Karina]

It's the bathroom. But it's a legit. It was a church confessional.

[Sabrina]

Holy shit. So cool.

[Karina]

So cool.

[Sabrina]

I love that church confessional. Yeah.

[Karina]

Love an art gallery is what I'm getting at.

[Sabrina]

Amazing. Okay, there's an old arcade in the building with lots of old games such as Pac man pinball machines, a 90s skateboard game, skeeball, air hockey, etc. As we were investigating the ghosts using a spirit box in the arcade, the group and I felt that there was an energy in front of the skateboarding game. A teenage voice Came through and he said 14, almost 15. Brother, Coke, skateboard accident.

[Karina]

Xavor Xavier.

[Sabrina]

It's X A V O R. Everyone felt an energy in the same place. And some of us felt an intense pressure on the right side of our heads.

[Karina]

Oh, no.

[Sabrina]

What we all got from this information was that he must have been 14, almost 15, born in the 90s and his name was Xaver. He passed from a skateboarding accident on the right side of his face head. His brother had had a drug problem and gave him some coke at some point. And this is them speculating based on the messages. After we were done investigating for the night, the owner of the mill came to me and showed me a picture of his birthday party. There was one person in the picture who was not at the party. Oh, chills.

[Karina]

Oh, my gosh.

[Sabrina]

This kid behind the lady in the photo, as seen below, looks to have some type of injury on the right side of his face. And we believe this photo is Xavor. I think Xavor told him to show me the picture even though he's insecure about his scar, which he also made very clear during our investigation. That was really nice. I called him very handsome, regardless of his scarlet. And then he tried to flirt with me. He called me beautiful and gave me other compliments. And for some context, I am 23. So I said, you are way too young, first of all. And you know, you're dead, homie. And he goes, well, technically in your time, I'm older than you.

[Karina]

Wait, this is amazing.

[Sabrina]

I've blurred out the faces of the living people for their privacy. I hope you guys read this. It's so refreshing to hear other people's experiences from Lily.

[Karina]

Oh, my gosh. Wait, he. It looks like a full on ghost.

[Sabrina]

Yeah, just kind of like leaning and looking over.

[Karina]

Leaning in. Why does it remind me of. What's the movie about? The kid who's a surfer who becomes a skateboarder. Oh, snowboarder.

[Sabrina]

Oh, Johnny Tsunami.

[Karina]

Johnny Tsunami. There you go.

[Sabrina]

The surfer who becomes a snowboarder. The snowboarder. Yeah, yeah. Doesn't it give you Johnny, Johnny Tsunami? Totally.

[Karina]

Is he talking?

[Sabrina]

So I know that they said that we're seeing quite a bit of you

[Karina]

might be naked skin.

[Sabrina]

We're seeing some skin. I know they said they blurred out the faces of everyone else, but the guy who's sitting down with his face blurred is so spookier than blurred. Even though he's not the ghost.

[Karina]

Yeah.

[Sabrina]

Yes.

[Karina]

Wow. I also like the like showing up right in front of the game. That is about Skateboarding, being able to communicate all of those details. Like, that's the same. I would gather the same information that they put together based on what he gave.

[Sabrina]

And also, like, she's a psychic medium and her friend is too. And so they're getting messages through the devices that they're using, but they're also getting like hits and actual communication in other forms too.

[Karina]

Damn.

[Sabrina]

That's like one of my friends. Maybe I told you that. Or maybe I was telling my mom that one of my friends had a tarot reading at a work party. And I didn't give any details of like, what her reading was because it was very personal to her. But she was like telling me all the stuff that came out and I was like, that's not, that's not just the tarot cards. Like, that was someone who. Channeling a ton of information and using the cards as a tool.

[Karina]

Right. That's how I feel about Litha. Like, I feel like Litha uses the tarot, but she's also a psychic medium.

[Sabrina]

So she. It's like, here's what the cards say, but also the universe and the energy at me.

[Karina]

This. Yeah.

[Sabrina]

And actually this card is. Yeah, yeah.

[Karina]

It's very like when she did the reading for me and saw that you were pregnant.

[Sabrina]

Uh huh.

[Karina]

And immediately walked it back. And also, you know what's crazy? I was texting Litha the other day in the cards. The pregnancy thing came up when. With the card. March. You announced your pregnancy to the world in March?

[Sabrina]

Oh my gosh.

[Karina]

She did the reading in November.

[Sabrina]

Now I want to look. I have notes from when she did. Did a reading for me, which I think was. Was it January through June or something? Let's see what Marge says. Let's see. Possible isolation.

[Karina]

I mean, I think that's your whole life.

[Sabrina]

A little bit of an identity shift. Possible some postpartum depression and anxiety returning or like the feeling of like the anxiousness of that returning.

[Karina]

You texted me after you're reading, you're like, I don't think mine was good. Like, I feel like it's negative.

[Sabrina]

But I. Well, I told her that too. I was like, it's so funny because it's like every other month it's like something cool happens and then you're depressed and then something cool might happen and then you're depressed.

[Karina]

I was like, okay, well you are a mother with a second child on the way and that's a lot on his own.

[Sabrina]

Well, and she also said this came up in March, but it was like over the next several Years. Who I am will shift, which makes sense.

[Karina]

Yeah.

[Sabrina]

And people will see me differently, I'll see myself differently. But all very good. And in a kind of rebellious way, perhaps.

[Karina]

Are you gonna cut bangs?

[Sabrina]

I can't do it again. They look good for two seconds when they're at like one specific length. And then the second they get like a little bit longer, a millimeter longer. They're so gross. Okay, but. Okay, so that was March. It was like depression. And then April. I'm a boss bitch. I am the queen. And it's like all about all of this clean energy. And then it keeps going back, back and forth.

[Karina]

Well, I feel like you do have spurts of, like, real energy and you, like, get a lot done and then you crash, which is, I think, human.

[Sabrina]

Oh. You know what's interesting? What? So we just had our. Now we go to housewitch every single month and get our auras photographed, our individual pictures, and then our pictures together. Because we've long talked about wanting to do that and now we're doing it. And we always have a spirit that shows up in our photo together. But for the first time, I had a spirit show up in just my solo shot.

[Karina]

Yep.

[Sabrina]

And I'm curious if that's gonna keep coming up, if that. Because we were like, oh, is that like my child? Because what reminded me of that was June is supposed to be more of like a woo woo month for me.

[Karina]

Gotcha. I was wondering how the connection.

[Sabrina]

Yeah, no, it was. It got there.

[Karina]

It was internal.

[Sabrina]

I was going through the reading. The six month tarot reading that I got from. It was an internal leap.

[Karina]

But we're here again.

[Sabrina]

It is my woo woo. Max, we caught up.

[Karina]

Yeah, no, I'm really excited to see how our photos progress.

[Sabrina]

Yeah.

[Karina]

Well, we'll keep you updated too. But thank you so much for joining us. If you have ghost photos, if you have ghost stories, please email us to 2girls, 1ghostpodcastmail.com if you want episodes one week early and ad free and bonus episodes every single month. Plus witch class, plus book month. Whoa.

[Sabrina]

Book month.

[Karina]

Book month. Book club. Book month would be a lot of work. Can you imagine?

[Sabrina]

Every day. New book will never be able to do it.

[Karina]

That's your clean energy.

[Sabrina]

It's like read two chapters every night.

[Karina]

Oh, man. Book club and campfire stories where you can come share your ghost stories with us live every Tuesday. That's all on Patreon. And it's such a wonderful community. Literally the reason I research this story is because of a Patreon member Mikayla telling us about this case.

[Sabrina]

So amazing.

[Karina]

If you want to influence the course of our lives and the research we

[Sabrina]

do, control us, sign into our DMs

[Karina]

on Patreon on we're your little monkeys dancing.

[Sabrina]

Shout out to Jamie Ryan, who edits and produces our podcast. Thank you Jamie and thank you to all of you.

[Karina]

I love you,

[Sabrina]

we love you and we will see you on the other it was like the SNL and we will see you on the other side.

[Karina]

Very spooky.

[Ad Voice]

Think Verizon is expensive? Think again. Anyone can bring their AT and T or T mobile bill to a Verizon store today and we'll give you a better deal. So bring us your bill, walk in running, pogo sticking, teleport if you can ride on the back of a rollerblading yak or fly in on the wings of a majestic falcon. Any way you can bring your AT&T or T mobile bill to a Verizon store today and we'll give you a better deal on the best Network based on RootMetric's best overall mobile network performance US 2nd/2025 all rights reserved. Must provide very recent postpaid consumer mobile bill in the name of the person redeeming the deal. Additional terms, conditions and restrictions apply.