Episode 370 - Look Into My Eyes Documentary | Hypnosis Deaths

Summary

Two Girls One Ghost: Episode 370 - Look Into My Eyes Documentary | Hypnosis Deaths

April 26, 2026 | Hosts: Corinne Vien & Sabrina Deana-Roga

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Episode Overview

In this sobering and investigative episode, Corinne and Sabrina explore the dark real-life story behind the documentary Look Into My Eyes, which examines the case of a Florida high school principal, Dr. George Kenney, who hypnotized his students—leading to controversy, tragedy, and three student deaths within eight weeks. This episode dives into true crime territory, raising difficult questions about the ethics, risks, and misunderstandings of hypnosis in therapeutic—and especially unauthorized—school settings. The hosts also discuss their personal high school experiences, the nature of hypnosis, the psychology behind the practice, and end with a haunting listener story where hypnosis intersects with the supernatural.

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Main Sections & Key Discussion Points

1. Introducing the Case: The Hypnosis Deaths ([03:01]–[04:11])

• Corinne introduces the Look Into My Eyes documentary, which focuses on a high school principal in North Port, Florida, who hypnotized 70+ students.
• Three students, Marcus, Wesley, and Brittany, died within eight weeks of each other after private hypnosis sessions.
• “This episode definitely borders more on the true crime side… it goes into a lot of what happens to the mind in hypnosis and our lack of understanding of how much it can do to influence a person.” —Corinne [03:56]

2. The Setting: North Port High School, Community, and Principal Kenney ([06:20]–[12:31])

• North Port, described as a tightly knit, average small town: “Everybody knows everybody. There’s literally only one high school.” —Corinne [08:49]
• Dr. George Kenney: Highly respected, community pillar, first in his family to attend college, had a doctorate in Educational Leadership (not medicine or psychology).
• Initiatives he brought: AP courses, extracurriculars, personal involvement with students.

3. Kenney’s Hypnosis Practice: From Group Demos to Private Sessions ([13:19]–[20:22])

• Began as group demonstrations, then progressed to one-on-one, closed-door sessions.
• Lacked clinical training: Attended a 5-day course and viewed DVD tutorials.
• Parents signed permissions, sessions were often recorded—though some tapes were later deleted.
• School district repeatedly told Kenney to stop; he ignored these directives.

Quote:

• “His hypnosis education consisted of watching DVDs and attending one five-day training course… suddenly, he’s getting a side hobby… hypnosis.” —Corinne [15:21]

4. Hypnosis as a Tool: Promise vs. Realities ([24:09]–[25:09])

• The hosts discuss the difference between stage hypnosis and therapeutic hypnosis.
• Emphasize the need for clinical oversight: “He’s digging into their psyche… you have no idea what you’re triggering.” —Corinne [24:38]

5. The Tragedies: Student Profiles & Deaths ([25:09]–[43:14])

Marcus Freeman ([25:09]–[30:43])

• 16, star quarterback, sought hypnosis to help pain management and athletic performance.
• Began displaying blank, dissociative states; took extreme hits without reaction.
• Taught self-hypnosis; died after car crash, suspected to be self-hypnotizing for dental pain.
• “After the hypnosis sessions, Marcus would go into a sort of trance in the games… as if he couldn’t feel his body.” —Corinne [28:20]

Wesley McKinley ([31:54]–[36:12])

• 16, sensitive, gifted musician; attended hypnosis to manage performance anxiety.
• Exhibited profound dissociation after sessions, struggled to remember his own name.
• Asked friends to punch him to see if he could feel anything, died by suicide.

Brittany Palumbo ([36:24]–[41:27])

• 17, top student, suffered severe test anxiety.
• Had one hypnosis session (mother present), experienced memory loss regarding the session.
• After unchanged SAT scores, died by suicide.
• Brittany’s mother: “I don’t think that he programmed her … but I think he could have given her a tool that allowed her to do what she did because she didn’t remember most of the hypnosis session...” —Corinne [39:10]

Community Reactions

• Only after three deaths did the community connect hypnosis as a possible contributing factor.

6. The Investigation & Aftermath ([43:14]–[58:10])

• Principal Kenney initially lied about hypnotizing Brittany, later admitting under investigation.
• School-commissioned report: He hypnotized at least 75 people, with no medical screening.
• Legal consequences: Two misdemeanor counts of unauthorized therapeutic hypnosis; six months probation (twice) and community service—considered a light sentence.
• School district settled wrongful death suits, awarding a nominal $200,000 per family (state maximum).
• “The thing that was most disappointing was that Principal Kenny never apologized. He never admitted to any wrongdoing.” —Corinne [55:24]

7. Hypnosis & Psychological Risks: Research and Debate ([45:47]–[49:27])

• Hypnosis increases risk of false memory formation; may trigger dormant mental health conditions.
• Hypnosis not proven to cause suicide but may remove inhibition or worsen existing vulnerabilities.
• Discussion of pop culture portrayals of hypnosis and the dangers of misunderstanding its power.

Quote:

• “You can implant something without even meaning to... Hypnosis can trigger latent mental health conditions…” —Corinne [48:38]

8. Where is Dr. George Kenney Now? ([52:47]–[59:02])

• Lost teaching license, lives in North Carolina, operates a bed & breakfast, continued to sell hypnosis materials online.
• Never apologized or accepted responsibility.
• “I understand how he could go into all of this with good intentions. Fine. But three students die and you don’t even for a second question your involvement?” —Sabrina [59:35]

9. Reflection: Ethics, The Brain, and Listener Advice ([59:52]–[61:42])

• The hosts stress the importance of professional standards and the complexity of hypnosis.
• Listeners are encouraged to use only medically supervised hypnosis and seek help if experiencing mental health crises.
• Suicide prevention resources provided repeatedly throughout and at the end.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “A grown man should not be hypnotizing children. No, not without a license, and he certainly did not have one.” —Sabrina & Corinne [03:46]
• “He was a principal with five days of training at a hypnosis conference and a box of DVDs … opening the minds of these teenagers.” —Corinne [50:19]
• “You can apologize without taking blame… You can believe that your hypnosis process didn’t lead to their deaths, but also be so deeply sorry.” —Sabrina [56:04]
• “Trust nothing. And if you do hypnosis, make sure you’re doing it with actual medical professionals.” —Sabrina [72:07]

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Listener Story Highlight ([61:59]–[72:26])

• Lexi from Rome shares a story of lifelong paranormal experiences that began in infancy, intensified after her father’s death, and climaxed with terrifying supernatural encounters when living alone.
• Regression hypnosis (supervised by professionals) helped reveal and banish a dark attachment dating back to childhood.
• “It said it was the one who had entered me when I was just two years old. It chose me. I was energy it could feed on. And now that I lived alone, I was finally it to devour.” —Lexi

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Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• [03:01] — Introduction to Case & Documentary
• [06:20] — Setting: North Port High & Principal Profile
• [13:19] — Kenney Begins Hypnosis Practice
• [25:09] — The Students' Stories: Marcus, Wesley, Brittany
• [45:47] — Exploring the Science and Dangers of Hypnosis
• [52:47] — Legal Outcomes & Kenney’s Life After
• [59:52] — Moral Reflections; Advice on Hypnosis
• [61:59] — Listener Story: Paranormal Attachment and Hypnosis
• [72:07] — Cautionary Closing: On Safely Seeking Hypnosis

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Episode Tone and Message

Corinne and Sabrina maintain their familiar balance of compassion, critical reflection, and dark humor, but the tone is notably somber and serious throughout. They express anger, confusion, and empathy for the community and affected families, while highlighting the vital lessons around mental health, professional boundaries, and the perils of underestimating the power of hypnosis.

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Concluding Notes

This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in true crime, psychological ethics, or the darker possibilities of the mind’s influence. The hosts’ discussion serves as both a warning and an invitation for further conversation about what we do—and do not—understand about hypnosis, responsibility, and the human brain.

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If you or someone you know is struggling with thoughts of suicide, you can call or text 988, or text HOME to 741-741 (Crisis Text Line). Resources are provided in the show notes, including the Trevor Project (text START to 678678) for LGBTQIA+ support.

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Transcript

[Corinne]

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[Sabrina]

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[Sabrina]

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[Corinne]

Hi.

[Sabrina]

Before we get into today's episode, we just wanted to tell you about a new podcast that's coming out and it's near and dear to our hearts because one of our favorite people in the entire universe and galaxy is the host of it. It's Aliza Kelly Astrala Tea, which I love a pun. I love a play on words. Astrolo tea.

[Corinne]

Yeah. And she's just incredible. And her ratings are always so accurate and they're so relatable, and I feel like no one approaches astrology like she does. Yeah, it's already topping the charts before it even came out.

[Sabrina]

So, yeah, Eliza is an incredible astrologer and she's been on our show a couple of times where she's, like, read our own charts. But then we did that episode where she helped us understand what was happening in the stars around the Bell witch case.

[Corinne]

Yes.

[Sabrina]

In her new podcast, Astralo Tea, she's gonna have new episodes every Monday and Wednesday. She'll give weekly horoscopes, dig into astrology, do deep dives into birth charts, pop culture, and so many cool, fun astrology things.

[Corinne]

So subscribe, add this to your rotation.

[Sabrina]

We will be listening, and there will be quizzes.

[Corinne]

And at the end of this episode, we're gonna play the trailer.

[Sabrina]

Yeah.

[Corinne]

So stick around, check it out.

[Sabrina]

And now let's get into a creepy episode.

[Corinne]

Hello.

[Sabrina]

Hi, everyone.

[Corinne]

This is two girls, one ghost. Two girls, one ghost.

[Sabrina]

We are your ghostesses. That's Corinne. Hello. I'm Sabrina. This is Sven. We're all here and we're ready to talk about. I Don't know. Something that I feel like is going to make me scared and sad today.

[Corinne]

It is. It's kind of more sad than anything.

[Sabrina]

And it's real.

[Corinne]

It is real. So I don't know if anyone else has seen that. There's a new documentary out called Look Into My Eyes and the trailer really caught my eye. And I watched the first episode. The rest are behind a paywall, so I just looked at articles for the rest of it.

[Sabrina]

Where is this to watch?

[Corinne]

It's on a few different sites. I feel like I looked at Amazon prime and, like, Hulu Apple tv. It's a few different places that you can access the first episode.

[Sabrina]

Okay.

[Corinne]

But basically I was like, wait, what the fuck just happened? Because this documentary is about a Florida high school principal who hypnotized over 70 students and three of them died within eight weeks of each other. So it asks, was this man responsible for 100%?

[Sabrina]

I don't even know the story. A grown man should not be hypnotizing children.

[Corinne]

No, not without a license, and he certainly did not have one.

[Sabrina]

I see a lot of issues already.

[Corinne]

Yeah. So this one, like, this episode definitely borders more on the true crime side of things because it is weird, but it goes into a lot of what happens to the mind in hypnosis and just our lack of understanding of how much it can do to influence a person.

[Sabrina]

Damn. Were you ever hypnotized? Yeah, like in like a high school prom situation.

[Corinne]

It was like a high school talent. Not like a talent show, but like one of those, like, event. Yeah, like a high school event.

[Sabrina]

Yeah. I did it in high school at my high school prom. Post prom, I don't know, after parties. So my high school, after the prom, hosted a post prom at the school to try to prevent, like, kids going, having sex and partying. But we would have a post, post prom. So, like. But we'd go back to the school after our prom and stay there until like 12:30. And they would have events and you had to go to the post prom. If you went to the prom.

[Corinne]

Oh, interesting.

[Sabrina]

Yeah.

[Corinne]

You couldn't just go home.

[Sabrina]

I'm sure you could go home, but, like, you could, like.

[Corinne]

Yeah, they're keeping you captive there.

[Sabrina]

Like, it's part. It was actually really fun. They had like a Velcro wall, like in your dress.

[Corinne]

Just like jumping, sticking to a wall.

[Sabrina]

We'd all, like, get pajamas that, like, said, like, PDS prom. And you would, like, go and have, like, a party at the school. But it was a civilized party. That's why it was. You would.

[Corinne]

It's a lot of effort to.

[Sabrina]

Yeah.

[Corinne]

Was there like a big partying problem for. For after prom?

[Sabrina]

No, we're just high schoolers. I mean, we still partied after that.

[Corinne]

Right.

[Sabrina]

So they tried to, like, navigate around it and we're like, we're 16. We can stay up late.

[Corinne]

One of my favorite prom moments, actually, my date was the prom king, which is.

[Sabrina]

You guys had prom king and prom queen.

[Corinne]

Uh huh.

[Sabrina]

Wow. Yeah.

[Corinne]

I was not the queen, in case anyone was wondering. I feel like you would have led with that, Tino. He was the prom king and he deserved it because he looked amazing. But at that same prom, my friend Kat got breathalyzed, like pulled to the side and got breathalyzed because of her dancing. And she's completely sober, so they have to just send her back and then she's like, embarrassed because she was just.

[Sabrina]

Just wiggling and grinding, letting her freak flag fly.

[Corinne]

Yeah. But soberly, because really we're all just children in high school and you're not really thinking about what you look like all the time.

[Sabrina]

Yeah. Wow.

[Corinne]

Okay. So, yeah, no, unfortunately this doesn't have to do with prom, but it does have to do with a bunch of high schoolers. So. It's the spring of 2011 in Florida, and Marcus was a 16 year old boy. He was a star quarterback. Wesley was also 16. He was a musician, and he was very sensitive, a brilliant kid. He was dreaming of going to Juilliard and actually was preparing for an interview, an audition for Juilliard. Brittany was 17. She was a math whiz, an honors student, and a girl who had her whole life mapped out in front of her. All three of these students went into their principal's office, a man who they trusted immensely. All three of them closed their eyes, and within eight weeks, all three of them were dead. Today's episode is not a ghost story in a traditional sense, but it is a horror story inspired by. Well, not really inspired by. It is literally the backstory of the docu series that's out called look into My Eyes, which covers this case. It interviews friends, family, and also the principal involved as well.

[Sabrina]

He's not in prison.

[Corinne]

No, he runs a bed and breakfast.

[Sabrina]

Has anyone gone in there to make sure there's no, like, untoward things happening?

[Corinne]

It's. This is gonna be kind of a complicated case because when you, like, hear about him, like, I. I truly. I have so many mixed feelings.

[Sabrina]

Okay.

[Corinne]

About the principal.

[Sabrina]

Okay.

[Corinne]

And we'll just stop and do like, temperature checks along the way. North Port Florida, if you're not from Florida, which we are not. But here's the picture to be painted about this area. It's a suburb of Sarasota. It's quiet, it's flat. It's the kind of place where everybody goes to the same grocery store. Everybody knows everybody. When I was watching the first episode of the docu series, they were like, there's literally only one high school. So if you are growing up here, you are going to this one particular high school. This is where all the kids go. And it was something like there was like a D average for grades. Like, it, like, things were not high school going great. Yeah, they had high school football games and this was genuinely like the social event of the week. The football team was really not good for a long, long time. So it wasn't a super wealthy area. It wasn't a very glamorous area, but this was home to these people. And this is representative of so many different places across the US all over the world, these kind of like small towns where neighbors know each other, they look out for each other, everybody knows each other's names.

[Sabrina]

Community is really important.

[Corinne]

Community is huge. And one huge community member that is like an important pillar of the community is your high school principal. Like, who is in charge of running a high school and preparing these children in their minds for, like, adulthood. Who's going to help with that? Did you, like, personally know your principal? You went to a way bigger high school than I did, so how big was yours? I think we had 1200 kids in total.

[Sabrina]

Mine was way smaller than yours.

[Corinne]

What?

[Sabrina]

I had 90 kids in my grade.

[Corinne]

I made a lot of assumptions about you and your New Jersey.

[Sabrina]

Yeah, you did 90 kids and you

[Corinne]

didn't know your principal?

[Sabrina]

So we had, like, class deans. And I knew I knew him, but I wasn't, like, friendly with him.

[Corinne]

Oh, interesting. I feel like my principals, we had two when I was there, and they were super involved.

[Sabrina]

I mean, maybe they were, but I was not involved with them. Like, I. I was in my own little world.

[Corinne]

Well, one of them, I had to get special permission to graduate early from high school because I was over it. So I check out of things after three years, but not the podcast and not my relationship. So I guess, like, the two things that are most important, I.

[Sabrina]

That's good.

[Corinne]

I stayed around for about high school and college. I was like, yeah, I'm out of here. So at this high school, which, like, I can totally relate because this was also my experience, and I think a lot of kids experience at my high school, the principal was extremely involved, met with all of the kids, like, obviously had a lot of involvement in, like, kids who were getting into trouble and things like that. But just like, in general was like, always popping into classes, always being very personable, friendly, and like a connection. And like, I genuinely think that a couple of the principals that I had when I was there, if they were like, oh, wait, you're struggling with public speaking or whatever, like, I can do hypnosis on you and help you. That I genuinely would be like, okay, interesting. So I understand the direction of where this is going because of my own experiences with very trustworthy and friendly and warm environments.

[Sabrina]

I don't think you would ever be okay with someone saying they could do hypnosis to help you. I don't. I don't think you would in high school. I feel like you.

[Corinne]

Like, now I'd be more like, maybe.

[Sabrina]

I don't. I just. That's to me. So red flag. A grown adult seem like, extremely boo boo.

[Corinne]

In high school.

[Sabrina]

I was able to help you with hypnosis.

[Corinne]

Okay, well, you can't see current me doing it, but I could see. I could see high school me doing it. So it's 2001. Northport High School got a new principal. His name was Dr. George Kenney. George Kenney was the first of his family to go to college. He came from a working class background. He was by all accounts someone who really, like, pulled himself together, who did what he could to boost the people and the kids around him. He did a lot of great things at Northport High School. So he launched AP classes, which is definitely something helpful, especially given their low grade average. Right. So he's like, trying to help the students prepare for college or, like, give them a chance of maybe getting into a better college. He created some after school art programs, pre shopping. That's amazing. Yeah. And he was also the guy who remembered everyone's name in the hallway. He showed up to the games. He supported the whole high school. He supported the students. He was a guy who believed that his strengths were his ability to see potential in a person and really bring that out of them.

[Sabrina]

What was his doctorate in? Do we know?

[Corinne]

It's not in psychology. Okay.

[Sabrina]

That's why I'm like, that's what you were thinking. I'm trying to put the pieces together before you even give him.

[Corinne]

He's a doctor in, like, education. Yes. So all to say, he was very well liked. He was very popular, he was very trusted. Oh, here. And he had a doctorate in Educational leadership, okay? I said not medicine, not psychology. Keep that in mind. Educational leadership.

[Sabrina]

Okay.

[Corinne]

You can get a doctorate in philosophy. That doesn't make you a medical professional.

[Sabrina]

Medical professional, yeah.

[Corinne]

And Dr. Kenny being so trusted, being so warm, having some credentials, and maybe not knowing exactly what doctor means to a 16 year old who might be struggling with some test anxiety. His open door policy and his willingness and eagerness to help everyone feel safe and comfortable and supported, that kind of seemed like a safe harbor for many students. So around 2006, five years into his tenure, Dr. Kenny developed a new interest, hypnosis. So he's been there for a while for like five years in creating all these programs, creating all these relationships. Parents trust him, and suddenly he's getting a side hobby and side interest, which is hypnosis.

[Sabrina]

I'm biting my tongue a bit because I like, want to, like, know where the story's going before I fully weigh in.

[Corinne]

Right. Hold your tongue. Yeah, bite your tongue. Hold, hold, hold your tongue.

[Sabrina]

Hold your horses and bite your tongue.

[Corinne]

Yeah. So Dr. Kenny, in his interest in hypnosis, it wasn't just like kind of like what you were saying before about like going to prom and getting hypnotized. It wasn't that sort of hypnosis. It was like the behind closed doors hypnosis.

[Sabrina]

Like psychological hypnosis.

[Corinne]

Yeah. That you would like. I, I think I referenced it later on with a particular point that I'm going to make. But like, Dr. Weiss, I think of him and like psychiatry and using hypnosis for like past life regression or like different types of things to help people.

[Sabrina]

Like meditative hypnosis.

[Corinne]

Totally.

[Sabrina]

Yeah.

[Corinne]

So that was sort of his approach. He was very convinced that hypnosis was a legitimate therapeutic tool and that it could specifically be used to help his students manage anxiety, improve their focus, raise their test scores, and even improve their athletic performances.

[Sabrina]

So that's great.

[Corinne]

You can totally believe that.

[Sabrina]

Have you seen Get Out?

[Corinne]

I literally referenced get out in this. I was like, this is so fucking Get Out. Like, oh my gosh. It's like. You already read my research, did you? No,

[Sabrina]

I know nothing.

[Corinne]

But okay, so like, you're on the same.

[Sabrina]

I just thought of the athletic thing of like, that's why they, in get out, pick specific people.

[Corinne]

Specific people, yes. So, okay, so Dr. Kenny, like, I totally am with him right now being like, okay, this could be something great. Totally. He's bringing in other programs. He's bringing in AP classes, art things, like different things. He could bring in a professional if he wanted to, to do this. But instead he was like, who needs a licensed professional and proper screening and safety protocols? I can just do this myself.

[Sabrina]

Yeah. What's his like, education process? How's he learning about.

[Corinne]

I will tell you this. Okay, well, first I'll say the American Psychological association and the British Psychological Society both recognize hypnosis as a legitimate clinical tool when used by trained professionals.

[Sabrina]

I agree with that.

[Corinne]

Key being trained professionals. Dr. Kenny or Principal Kenny. I'm just going to call him Principal Kenny from here on out just to like drive home that he is not a doctor who can be practicing this. Yes, he was not a trained professional. His hypnosis education consisted of watching DVDs and attending one five day training course at a place called Omni Hypnosis Training center in Deland, Florida.

[Sabrina]

Okay, at least he did that.

[Corinne]

Yeah, but like, was he actually doing anything or was this just like one of those big, you know, like you check into the Marriott and you're in a conference, like sitting in the back with your cold turkey and cheese sandwich for five days listening to someone do speeches about hypnosis.

[Sabrina]

Or is it like a cult situation where like I'm pressuring Nexium where you like sign up for like self help course and then it all of a sudden is take the blue pill?

[Corinne]

Yeah. Okay, so five days and a few DVDs and he starts hypnotizing his students. At first, Principal Kenny did this in group settings. So he would go into psychology classes and like do this as a demonstration, which made sense. But also in the documentary, some of the kids were like, now adults, obviously when they're getting interviewed, they were like, oh yeah. Like he would come into classes that didn't even have to do with psychology at all.

[Sabrina]

Like he was just trying to test his.

[Corinne]

Right. Like it was just like a fun magic trick. Almost like your principal coming in and be like, I have a guitar, let me play you a song. And you're like, this is social studies. Like, what? Like what's going on? Like, it was out of place and it didn't make total sense. But to the kids, they're like, okay, wait, this is cool. This is different. This is fun. So people responded to it. And then as word spread and people started really supporting him and the students supported him, Principal Kenny started to take it a little bit further. He started doing one on one sessions in his office. So these are private sessions. He's inviting particular students into his office, closing the door and performing hypnosis. I will say he did set up a camera and record the entire Thing, which I do think is a good idea because obviously like a grown man and a student behind closed doors and

[Sabrina]

hypnosis, like you're kind of entering a unconscious state.

[Corinne]

Yes, he did delete a lot of the evidence.

[Sabrina]

My eye just started twitching so hard. I feel like lately, because I've had like a one month long twitch. Like I think I've referenced it in so many episodes, but lately it's been twitching when something triggers me.

[Corinne]

And this is triggering.

[Sabrina]

And this is triggering.

[Corinne]

Yeah, yeah. So he deleted a lot of the evidence, but there's still some tapes. And like in the hypnosis there's a lot of like physical touching. And it's not like, like when you're watching it, there's nothing that's actually like touch wise inappropriate when he's like holding people in their back and like putting them back in the chair. Except when he like touches their head or like does like a snap or something and they fall forward. He's sitting on a chair in front of them and they're falling forward and their faces are going into his lap. So the children's heads are resting on their principal's lap.

[Sabrina]

Okay.

[Corinne]

Okay. So he's trying to keep things above board in his mind. He's videotaping them, recording them. He's actually sending home permission slips with the students to have their parents sign off on being able to be in the office closed door, do hypnosis with him.

[Sabrina]

Thank God. Yeah. Because I was getting nervous that this was like almost like non consensual, like in the sense that like parents didn't know what was going on. But I am glad this is why

[Corinne]

it was so confusing. Because it was like there's.

[Sabrina]

It's not secret. It's not a secret at all.

[Corinne]

Okay.

[Sabrina]

Okay.

[Corinne]

It's not a secret at all.

[Sabrina]

Okay.

[Corinne]

Yeah. Which it makes you think that it's like more credible and you know, like you as a parent, if you might be like concerned or whatever, then you talk to another parent who's a student, did great on her second SAT scores because she started doing the hypnosis and it helped her a lot with anxiety or whatever. And then you're like, okay, well I guess like my son can do it for his football performance.

[Sabrina]

Sure.

[Corinne]

Performance.

[Sabrina]

His big show, his ballet. It is kind of a performance.

[Corinne]

It is a performance for the whole 30 seconds that they actually actively play in the two hour game. Okay. He is trying to keep things above board. It's not some secret operation behind closed doors. Parents are signing off about it. Kids are openly Talking about it, the school district knew he was doing it. However, when the school district found out that he was doing this one on one, like, I think they were kind of okay with it being sort of like a display in a psychology. Of course it made sense. But he was told on three separate occasions by the executive director of Sarasota High schools to stop.

[Sabrina]

I appreciate that oversight that, like, they actually were paying attention to what was happening in this school. But he didn't stop.

[Corinne]

Yeah. They basically said, stop. Everything you're doing, you can only do it in a psych class in a group setting, so long as you have permission slips from all of the parents to do it in a group setting in the psych class.

[Sabrina]

Okay?

[Corinne]

Like, it was like, one very particular way that he can do it otherwise. Stop. But he did not listen. He kept on hypnotizing his students.

[Sabrina]

Every day is Leia Day. She's the queen of the castle.

[Corinne]

Yeah, she is.

[Sabrina]

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[Corinne]

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[Sabrina]

And the pro in Boxy Pro stands for probiotics, which boxy puts right into the litter, which helps basically gobble up all the bacteria that is left behind. So it's keeping the cat litter box, like, continuously odor free.

[Corinne]

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[Sabrina]

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[Corinne]

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[Sabrina]

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[Corinne]

Yes.

[Sabrina]

Their mascara, their eye brightener, the brilliant eye brightener.

[Corinne]

I actually just ordered a couple new colors because we have a dinner coming up where we themed it whimsical. And I was like, what are we supposed to do. And you're like, just do what makes you feel best. I was like, okay, well, I know exactly what makes me feel best. Thrive. I have some shimmer on my eyes with the Thrive crayons, so I got some more spring and summer colors.

[Sabrina]

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[Corinne]

And also with over 150 million in product and cash donations to over 600 giving partners, your purchase directly fuels real impact. It's beauty with purpose. Amplify your spring look with Thrive cosmetics. Go to thrivecosmetics.com TGOG for an exclusive offer of 20% off your first order. That's Thrive Cosmetics. C A U S E M E t I c s.com TGOG by 2011, so this is 10 years after he is principal, but like 5 or so years into him becoming entranced by hypnosis, Principal Dr. George Kenny had hypnotized approximately 75 students.

[Sabrina]

And it was all for, like, confidence or anxiety and like performance reasons. It was like trying to help.

[Corinne]

Yes. And actually I said students, but I think, I'm not sure if it was completely students all the time. It might have been because I think there, there were some, like, displays and kind of like group settings. So I think some staff members, even some parents might have been hypnotized at a time, but largely it was students.

[Sabrina]

Okay.

[Corinne]

One basketball player at the school reported that Kenny had hypnotized him 30 to 40, 40 times to improve his concentration. Okay, so he was putting all these teenagers in this altered mental state over and over again with zero clinical oversight, zero psychological screenings, and the full weight of his authority as a principal in their school. So parents were not asking enough questions. No kids ever questioned it. It just seemed like a legitimate thing happening.

[Sabrina]

Well, and this is the thing with hypnosis. Like, I absolutely agree with the psychological foundations. We where it is a helpful tool, but it has to be in, like, collaboration with other psychological things, like other therapy, like talk therapy and understanding. Like, cause, yes, maybe like, we hold ourselves back subconsciously like we are our own worst critics sometimes or like our own worst enemies. But it's also important to like, get to the root of why that insecurity exists.

[Corinne]

Right. So it's like to your point, he's not coming in understanding anything about the psychological background or mental state or Previous experiences of these children, and he's trying to get them to a certain place. Like, he's digging into their psyche. He's, like, rewiring hypnosis.

[Sabrina]

Without knowing the bigger picture.

[Corinne]

You have no idea what you're triggering. This is not him just being, like, fall over when I snap and return to the audience, and when I say Scooby Doo, stand up in place and bark like a dog. Like, this is. This can be very damaging.

[Sabrina]

Yeah.

[Corinne]

And for three students in particular, their lives would be forever changed. Marcus Freeman was 16 years old. He was a starting quarterback for Northport High School's football team. And he was a very big deal in this small town because, like I said before, the football team was not good at all. Like, they had the reputation of basically losing every single game. It was, like, so pointless to even think about being on the football team. But when he joined the football team, suddenly they started winning.

[Sabrina]

Oh.

[Corinne]

And so he became one of the, like, shining players, shining star athlete, very beloved, very popular. The kind of athlete that people actually wanted to show up to the games to see if they're.

[Sabrina]

Especially if they're on a losing streak, and finally they have someone who's helping them win. Yeah. It would be an exciting community moment.

[Corinne]

Yeah. It was funny because, like, in the docu series, you're talking about how awful the football team was and how when he joined, it was so great. And then it, like, shows a clip of a. Another, like, from, like, years before. Like, one of the high school students being like, oh, yeah, like, I'm his mentor. Like, he's my protege. And I'm like, was that kid good, or did he just want to, like, view himself a part of the story? A part of this?

[Sabrina]

Yeah.

[Corinne]

I was like, I think everyone before this interview said that the team sucked.

[Sabrina]

Yeah.

[Corinne]

But anyway, that's high school. You know, you skew things. His best friend, Derek Thomas, described him as someone who was always full of energy, someone everyone wanted to be around. But he did suffer from one big problem, and that was physical pain.

[Sabrina]

Oh.

[Corinne]

Which is really hard when your body hurts. To be a quarterback whose, like, whole thing is getting tackled football. Well, you're, like, hoping all of the other people are going to protect you as the quarterback, but, like, you can still. You get tackled, you get tackled. And, like, yeah, you take plenty of hits, even in practice. So brutal sport for him to be playing with all of this physical pain. And he's, you know, like, he's new to high school and the team, so, like, he's probably a lot Younger and a lot smaller than a lot of the other guys. So it hurt. At some point, Marcus started going to Principal Kenny for help managing his pain for the games.

[Sabrina]

Well, and then this is also like, that's so problematic because you're trying to convince someone that they're not feeling pain but. And then they're ignoring the pain that's happening, which can hide so much worse that like, that's so dangerous for them.

[Corinne]

Exactly. It wasn't him just being like, I need help, like not focusing too much on the pain that I'm feeling. He literally asked, like, make my pain go away. I want my body and my brain to forget that I feel any pain at all so that I can stay in the games longer. That was his goal. So Principal Kenny would hypnotize him. He described it as helping Marcus, quote, see things more slowly on the field. But according to Marcus's best friend Derek, it actually was a lot more alarming than that. After the hypnosis sessions, Marcus would sometimes like go into this sort of trance in the games. He'd be completely blank faced. He seemed so disconnected from his body completely. He would take hits that should have stopped him in his tracks without even flinching. And it was as if he couldn't like feel his body. So the hypnosis seemed to work. And Principal Kenny, you can see this, a clip of him in the docu series saying like, no, I did not teach him that, but everyone else said he did well.

[Sabrina]

And also here's the complicated thing about hypnosis and like, I think people are still trying to understand like the exact science of it, but like you are putting someone into a subconscious state and then like you're projecting like your voice into that subconscious state to try to help rewire their conscious state.

[Corinne]

Right, exactly. It's the rewiring which I don't think Dr. Kenny, like, I just don't think it clicked in his mind. Yeah. Like, I don't think he was delusional to the point where he thought I am qualified and capable and should be rewiring these kids brains. I don't think he understood what it was actually doing.

[Sabrina]

He was trying to be helpful.

[Corinne]

Yes. Because he didn't get the proper training. So like, it just didn't. Yeah. Like in his defense, through some of this, I don't think it fully clicked the damage that he could be doing to these students. Apparently Principal Kenny also taught Marcus self hypnosis so that he himself could put himself in this altered state, especially in games. Or like just turn it on when he needed to because it was part of like the pain management, which that's the part that he was like, I did not teach Marcus that. But people were like, yes, you did.

[Sabrina]

You may have not meant to, but that's what you did.

[Corinne]

That's what you did.

[Sabrina]

Yeah. Which proves that you didn't know what you were doing.

[Corinne]

Yeah. On March 15, 2011, Marcus and his girlfriend were driving home from a dentist appointment. Marcus had just had a root canal and he was in significant pain. His girlfriend was in the passenger seat and she said everything was fine when suddenly she looked over to Marcus and he had this sort of like blank stare and blank face, like a very strange look on his face. And it was almost like his eyes were like rolling up into his head. And she said it was like super slow motion. Like the car just started very slowly veering over to the next lane and then they went off the road and crashed into a tree. Marcus did not survive. He passed away in the crash.

[Sabrina]

Oh my God.

[Corinne]

His girlfriend survived with serious injuries.

[Sabrina]

That's so sad.

[Corinne]

Investigators later came to believe that Marcus in that moment had been attempting to self hypnotize to help with the pain of his dental procedure.

[Sabrina]

Also, he should not have been driving after a dental procedure.

[Corinne]

No, he shouldn't have.

[Sabrina]

And I understand why this would be really hard legally to tie back to the principal in any way.

[Corinne]

Right. And like again, I didn't pay to watch the other three episodes. I just read news articles from like when all of this stuff was happening. But I'm not sure cause I know that he deleted a lot of the tapes and a lot of the evidence of the sessions. And I don't know if Marcus's sessions were still available to like watch and be admitted into court eventually.

[Sabrina]

So when you first like brought up this topic, because I didn't know anything about it and you were talking about hypnosis, I was picturing. I mean, this is the fictionalized dramatized version of it. But Girl from Plainfield is based on that true case where like the girl like kind of encouraged someone to die by suicide.

[Corinne]

Yeah. Isn't it her boyfriend?

[Sabrina]

Yeah, that's her boyfriend. Yeah. So I was nervous that this was gonna be a situation where it was like almost pushing their thoughts to a dark place, but it was like the death deaths potentially were all accidental.

[Corinne]

Nope.

[Sabrina]

Okay. Nevermind. Oh no. Oh no.

[Corinne]

Wesley McKinley was also 16 years old. He was a student at Principal Kenney school. He was not an athlete, but he was a musician. He was a self taught guitarist, a very gifted singer. Super into music. He felt things very deeply, poured everything into his music. And he was planning to audition for Juilliard. And if you don't know what Juilliard is, it's a very prestigious, very difficult to get into music. Conservator.

[Sabrina]

Yeah.

[Corinne]

Like school arts.

[Sabrina]

There's, like, ballet, everything, right?

[Corinne]

Yeah. Like, very fancy. If you get in, it's like, holy shit, you're.

[Sabrina]

You're it.

[Corinne]

You're it. You're going to be working in some professional capacity in that art.

[Sabrina]

Yeah.

[Corinne]

So this was not a kid without direction, basically, is my point. So what did he need in these hypnosis sessions? Well, he had a lot of performance anxiety ahead of the Juilliard audition. And so he basically went to these hypnosis sessions with Principal Kenny to help with the anxiety and help him kind of like, lock in the performance and do the best that he possibly could and not let the anxiety of the moment get the best of him and ruin his shot at Juilliard.

[Sabrina]

Sure.

[Corinne]

Friends started to notice something odd after these sessions. According to a deposition from a close friend, Wesley would get on the bus after a hypnosis appointment and basically struggle to remember his own name after leaving Principal Kenny's office. And it wasn't like he was confused either. It was basically like something had been dislodged from his brain. Like, the information just was never there. In the documentary, his mother described his behavior after one of the sessions as being almost zombie. Like, she said it was completely out of character for him. So everyone was noticing that he was, like, very, very affected by these hypnosis sessions, which were supposed to help with anxiety.

[Sabrina]

Yeah. Did you. In the first episode, are there clips from the hypnosis session? Like, do you see how the principal, like, would start the session? Or, like, the words he would use in the sessions? Like, I'm just.

[Corinne]

There are short clips, but it's not. It's not like a full clip. Yeah. You can see examples of them standing up, and then he's doing different things, and they lean back or snap down, and you see him getting them into kind of the altered state. But you don't. At least in the first episode of the four episodes, you don't see a full. His line of questioning and what he's actually doing.

[Sabrina]

I mean, hypnosis is so interesting because it's also like, I've never studied it, and I will not pretend I did, but I feel like one thing I've always heard is that you can't. Like, if you're hypnotized, you would Never do something that you wouldn't consciously do, even if, like, subconsciously. That idea is like, for example, you and I would never murder someone unless, like, for self defense. So there's, like, all these movies and, like, you know, villain archetypes where they, like, hypnotize someone to murder people. But if you would never do it in your conscious state, you would not do it in your subconscious state. But when there's, like, slight suggestion, you don't know how far you are.

[Corinne]

This is exactly where someone is going. It has a lot to do with the mental health of these two particular students we're going to talk about next who lost their lives and him not understanding or doing any due diligence into understanding their background, their trauma, different triggers and things that could push them to a certain breaking point. So Wesley's very, very affected in kind of a negative way from these hypnosis sessions that are just supposed to help him with performance anxiety ahead of his Juilliard audition on April 7, 2011, the day before Wesley died, Wesley had his last session with Principal Kenny. The next day, April 8, Wesley came home from school. His mom was home. He walked right past her. He didn't say a word. He put his backpack down, and he walked out the back door. She called after him, asked when his friends might be coming over, and he just kept walking. An hour later, she heard sirens. Friends at school had noticed something was really wrong that day, and one of them actually testified that Wesley had approached him, asking this friend to punch him in the face because he wanted to test something. He wanted to see if he could feel because he felt like he couldn't tell the difference between feeling and not

[Sabrina]

feeling anymore, which is similar to the first guy.

[Corinne]

Yeah. Wesley McKinney was found in a tree outside of his home. Passed away. He was 16 years old.

[Sabrina]

Oh, my God. This is so devastating.

[Corinne]

Yeah. Ooh, I have chills. Brittany Palumbo was 17. She was a math honor student. And not just a good student. She was a standout. She was a Mu Alpha Theta, which was a. Sorry. I don't know why I struggled saying that. Mu Alpha Theta, the National Math Honor Society. She was a part of that, and she was in student government. She was very involved. She was, again, like, not a student without direction. She cared a lot about her future, and she was very stressed when it came to her SAT scores because she had a lot of test anxiety. I feel like a lot of people when it comes to acts, sats, there's so much pressure. Oh, my God. It's so Stressful. And she took the SATs and she was not happy with her scores. She had had a boyfriend for years, but they had just recently broken up. And it's like the breakup there. And then, like, her and her now ex boyfriend had planned to go to the same school and, like get into the same school together. And then she's got the pressure of. It's just like not really knowing, like, emotionally where she should be at and everything. Like her romantic life, her future, everything

[Sabrina]

seems so much bigger at that point in your life.

[Corinne]

And also feels all connected to how she does on the SATs in this moment. So her mother actually later described her as sad but not depressed because she had her whole life ahead of her. But she was really hoping to take the sats again and get a better score. So she went to Principal Kenny, and Principal Kenny told Brittany that she had test anxiety and that hypnosis could help her out. Brittany had one session with Principal kenny in late 2010. Her mother was present.

[Sabrina]

Okay, good.

[Corinne]

In the room with her.

[Sabrina]

I appreciate that.

[Corinne]

It was recorded. And during the session, Principal Kenny had Brittany bend forward and stay in that position for up to 10 minutes while he spoke to her. So she's like, kinda like slumped over,

[Sabrina]

which is not good for your blood flow.

[Corinne]

No, it's totally not. It's super uncomfortable.

[Sabrina]

Interesting. I'm so curious, like, if someone out there does study hypnosis, like, I don't feel like that's the proper position.

[Corinne]

No. Not to be in for a long time.

[Sabrina]

No.

[Corinne]

Like, I remember being in that position when I was hypnotized on stage. And it's like, that's just to see who's susceptible. And it's like, okay, now, like, fall asleep. And they snap and then you kind of like slump over or whatever.

[Sabrina]

Or you're like sitting in a chair and you slump over, but it's not like standing up, slumped over.

[Corinne]

I think she might have been in a chair.

[Sabrina]

Okay. Okay.

[Corinne]

I don't know. The other videos I saw people, they were in a chair. So I. I'm not really sure her mom was there, though. When it was over, Britney could not remember what had happened. She couldn't remember any positions she had been placed in. She couldn't remember what Kenny said to her and her mom said in the documentary. I don't think that he programmed her, obviously, to go in and die by suicide, but I think that he possibly could have given her a tool that allowed her to do what she did because she didn't remember most of the hypnosis. Session. Was that what took away her fight and her desire to live?

[Sabrina]

So it was only one session. And her mom was there for the

[Corinne]

whole time, according to what I saw. Again, I didn't watch a whole documentary, so there's, like, quotes and stuff being pulled from other articles about the documentary and then previous ones from years ago about the case when it was happening.

[Sabrina]

Wow. Oh, that's so sad. Cause that one's also tough. Cause, like, the other two victims, I'll call them that, like, had 40, like, sessions. Right. They were.

[Corinne]

No, one. One kid had 40, but it wasn't any of the ones that had passed. Oh, I think Marcus. I don't know how many Marcus had,

[Sabrina]

but they had multiple, both of the other.

[Corinne]

And then Wesley had a few.

[Sabrina]

Yeah. Cause this is tough. Cause, like, you know, unfortunately, suicide is an issue, like, in our world, and people, especially adolescent kids, are dealing with so much stress that, like, they don't know how to deal with it. And that is a common cause behind suicide. So, like, how do you directly correlate it to this hypnosis?

[Corinne]

Right. And it kept reminding me of this one documentary, and I can't remember the name of it. I've referenced it so many times over the past years. But I think it was based in Wales, where there was that one high school where kids kept dying by suicide. And it would, like, literally, a student would be being interviewed in the documentary and be like, I have no idea what's happening to all any of my friends. And, like, a day later would die by suicide themselves. And it was just like, what is happening in the air? Like, what's going on? And it made me think, like. Like, I think if hypnosis was happening, they would have found that out in the investigation. But it made me think, like, was there something like hypnosis or something that was happening that just like, that kind of exactly what her mom said took away their fight and desire to live.

[Sabrina]

Yeah. Can I just pause and say, like, anyone who's listening, if you are struggling with mental health or thoughts of suicide, like, please know there are so many resources out there.

[Corinne]

You can I have some in the show notes.

[Sabrina]

Text 988. You can call 988 in the National Suicide Hotline. I've communicated with them before. They're so helpful. It's just nice to have someone to talk to and know that you're not alone and you are wanted here. We want you here. You are loved and you are important. Please, please know that.

[Corinne]

And again, in the show notes, there are resources for if you feel comfortable calling if you would rather text. If you are worried about a friend, there are different resources, so just check that out as well.

[Sabrina]

Yeah.

[Corinne]

Brittany took the SATs again. Her scores did not improve in the way that she had hoped. And on May 4, 2011, less than two months after Marcus had passed, less than a month after Wesley had passed, Brittany's parents had found her in her room having passed. Ugh. So in an eight week span, North Port High School had lost three students. All three students had been hypnotized by their principal and according to friends and family, had been deeply affected by those hypnosis sessions. So after Marcus had passed away in March from the car crash, which was ruled as an accident, people hadn't connected it to the hypnosis sessions and Dr. Kenny, because it's just like, it didn't really make sense. Like, he just veered off the road. He just had dental procedures. There were so many different other elements that could have been contributed to it. So people were like, if these other two students hadn't passed and that sort of like investigations start happening. This could have gone on for so long and so many more people could have gotten hypnotized and potentially hurt. But because it happened in such a quick succession and there were three students, then it started to kind of unfold.

[Sabrina]

Right.

[Corinne]

Unfortunately, people die in car accidents all the time. It's devastating. But there wasn't immediately a pattern until Wesley had passed in April. The community was super shaken, obviously, by these deaths. It's always tragic when someone passes, especially someone young and especially three people from the same high school.

[Sabrina]

Yeah.

[Corinne]

So people started to murmur, they started to talk about how these students had been hypnotized by Principal Kenny, which wasn't a secret. Again, like, his sessions were openly known about, openly discussed. Parents were joining sessions. Parents were signing permission slips. But people started to ask, when Wesley had passed first, was he also hypnotized like Marcus was? And Principal Kenney said, yes, he had hypnotized Wesley the day before he had passed. So when this all came out, he was put on administrative leave with pay. But what's interesting is when asked if he had hypnotized Britney, he said no, even though her mom was.

[Sabrina]

So he's now also kind of scared.

[Corinne]

He starting to realize, like, oh, my gosh, am I getting investigated? Like, does this have something to do with me? So at first he's like, yes, Marcus, yes, Wesley. And then Brittany passes. Brittany. Nope, I didn't. I didn't do that.

[Sabrina]

Damn.

[Corinne]

So he lied. An independent investigation by the Steel Investigations Agency eventually revealed the truth. That he did in fact hypnotize all three students. And when he was asked why he lied about Britney, he said that he accidentally lied because of the stress he was under. Accidentally lied about hypnotizing a now dead 17 year old girl who he hypnotized in his office with her mom. And this was a principal who supposedly knew everyone's names in the hallway.

[Sabrina]

You know how you accidentally lie sometimes when you're stressed?

[Corinne]

Yeah, yeah. You know and forget an entire person and everything you did?

[Sabrina]

Yep.

[Corinne]

So the full investigation conducted by the school district found that principal Kenney had hypnotized approximately 75 people from 2006 up until the deaths of these students in 2011. So five years of sessions, dozens of students, Absolutely no clinical oversight, no psychological screening, no follow up care. A blatant disregard of the orders he was given by the executive director of the Sarasota School district to stop what he was doing. But how? Well, we already answered that a lot. I was going to say, how can hypnosis that's supposed to improve focus and lessen stress lead to death? And this is what we've already been discussing.

[Sabrina]

Yeah.

[Corinne]

So there is a widespread belief that hypnosis just makes you relaxed, but that is guided meditation. So that is different than hypnosis. Oh, this is where I connected it to Get Out. Okay. Because I wrote, I think a lot of TV and film portray it as such the sort of like, relax and get into this state. But hypnosis is shown to be something a lot more serious than that. The only time I remember seeing it portrayed as something much more serious was in Jordan Peele's movie, Get Out. Yes. I don't know if it's portrayed in other films like that, but I was like, I wrote one of the best movies ever made. I'm a huge Jordan Peele.

[Sabrina]

Agreed.

[Corinne]

Yes. Okay. So perhaps there was a misunderstanding of what hypnosis actually was. Multiple studies have found that hypnosis significantly increases the formation of false memories. And not just a little bit. One study found that when subjects were explicitly warned that hypnosis might create false memories, 28% of them actually developed false memories anyway.

[Sabrina]

Whoa.

[Corinne]

And if they weren't warned, it was 44% false memories.

[Sabrina]

Yes.

[Corinne]

And so this research was done in 1997 and I was trying to see if there was like that same sort of research was duplicated again more recently. But this is where I was like, oh, that's so interesting. Because of Brian Weiss's work. I wonder Kind of like what happens there with false memories. Because Brian Weiss, we've brought him up so many different times. He is a psychiatrist, and he's also a hypnotherapist, famously known for the book Many Lives, Many Masters. He didn't believe in anything woo woo or anything like that. Like, barely believed that hypnosis could be helpful. Started using hypnosis to treat some of his patients and was surprised when a lot of his patients started to elaborate on these memories that didn't belong to their current life. And he was like, oh, my God, I've tapped into people's past lives. It's all about past life regression.

[Sabrina]

Well, so then that makes me wonder if these supposed false memories are actually past life memories.

[Corinne]

Right? Like, are they not false memories at

[Sabrina]

all, but they just don't belong to this current life? But that's also very confusing.

[Corinne]

It's hard to understand.

[Sabrina]

Actually, at south by Southwest, I spoke with someone who has done the Gateway Tapes.

[Corinne]

Oh, really?

[Sabrina]

And they said in the very first experience, they saw a woman holding who he knew would be his baby, and it was years before. And now he has a baby. And he said that the first time he saw his baby, he knew it was the baby he saw when he did the Gateway Tapes. Isn't that crazy?

[Corinne]

That's so wild. Yeah, but I totally believe it.

[Sabrina]

Yeah.

[Corinne]

Yeah. So it's confusing with, like, what can be a false memory and what isn't. And actually, a lot of these psychological associations has said that it's basically impossible without cooperative evidence to distinguish between what is a false memory and what is not.

[Sabrina]

Right.

[Corinne]

So hypnosis muddies the water completely.

[Sabrina]

Totally.

[Corinne]

So what does that mean in practice? It means that when you put someone in a hypnotic state, you can introduce ideas, suggestions, feelings that don't belong to them, which you already were talking about. You can implant something without even meaning to, and they may never remember that that happened at all. They may never believe it in total confidence. But there are these documented risks cited by clinical professionals that hypnosis can trigger latent mental health conditions that were previously dormant. So does hypnosis cause suicide? Not likely. But it can trigger some underlying mental health problems, I guess, that are dormant, or it can implant ideas that contribute to something that already may have been, like, underlying and festering.

[Sabrina]

Well, it's also just so crazy that we. We still don't understand the brain.

[Corinne]

Right.

[Sabrina]

Like, we don't know. Like, it's such a complicated structure.

[Corinne]

And it's also trippy that we don't understand it when it's like, that's what holds our thoughts. It's like, why don't you know about yourself?

[Sabrina]

But is that what holds your thoughts? Because, like we've talked about, does consciousness live in the brain or.

[Corinne]

Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I talked about it on blink. There was a lot of scanning that suggested that there was nothing going on.

[Sabrina]

Yeah.

[Corinne]

And in fact, there were. We don't know what's going on in the brain. We truly don't understand it. How did Principal George Kenney. He didn't. That's the point. So he had no idea, going into any of these hypnosis sessions where he was treating his students if they had any latent mental health conditions. He never asked. He never screened them. He was a principal with five days of training at a hypnosis conference and had a box of DVDs on it.

[Sabrina]

So it's negligence.

[Corinne]

Yes. And was opening the minds of these teenagers.

[Sabrina]

What's on the menu this week, Corinne?

[Corinne]

What isn't on the menu with Home Chef? There are so many things to choose from, so many amazing meals. It's also kind of hard because Home Chef is so delicious and it makes cooking so easy and effortless that Brian and I have found so many favorite dishes and we keep wanting to repeat them.

[Sabrina]

Right.

[Corinne]

But then I'm also like, well, I need to try something new because they all look so good.

[Sabrina]

All so good. People really love Home Chef, including us. Home Chef is rated number one by users of other meal kits for quality, convenience, value, taste, and recipe ease. They have over 30 meal options each week with choices for different diets. Like, I'm vegetarian, you're gluten free, and different tastes as well.

[Corinne]

Plus, it's affordable. Home Chef customers save an average of $86 per month on groceries. For a limited time, Home Chef is offering our listeners 50 off and free shipping on your first box. Plus free dessert for life. Yes. Go to homechef.com TGOG that's homechef.com TGOG for 50 off your first box and free dessert for life. Homechef.com TGOG must be an active subscriber to receive free dessert. We have been users and champions of Helix Mattress for years now. We both own Helix Mattresses. We put them in our homes. And recently I just purchased Noah his big kid bed. So I got the Helix Kids mattress. And I will say I went from waking up at least once a night to be with Noah. The past four nights that he's been in his Helix Kids mattress, He has slept 12 hours. I was like, we should have done this months ago.

[Sabrina]

That's amazing.

[Corinne]

It is. It's changed. It's Helix, baby. You just got to try it.

[Sabrina]

They have quizzes that you can take to like, match you with the perfect mattress for you. Are you a side sleeper, back sleeper, stomach sleeper, hot sleeper, cold sleeper? They match you with the perfect mattress and they have a 120 night sleep tr limited lifetime warranty. And on April 30th they are having a one day flash sale where you can get 25 off site wide when you go to helixsleep.com forward/tgog Again, that's helixsleep.com forward/tgog for 25 off site wide. Make sure you enter our show name after checkout so they know that we sent you helixsleep.com forward/tgog so what happened

[Corinne]

to Principal George Kenney? The Florida Department of Health investigated him and found that he had violated state law. Florida has a statute that bars therapeutic hypnosis unless it's monitored by a medical professional. So I guess you can practice it without a license, but it has to be someone with a license has to oversee it.

[Sabrina]

Makes sense.

[Corinne]

He was charged with two misdemeanor counts of practicing therapeutic hypnosis without a license. Two misdemeanors. So a very soft sentencing given that he could have been charged with reckless endangerment, manslaughter, practicing therapy without a license, which would have been a felony. Okay, so why the lesser charges? Well, Principal George Kenny. Well, I guess he's not principal anymore. George Kenny himself explained in the documentary that in Florida, if you're convicted of a felony as an educator, you can lose your retirement benefits. And so his attorney worked really hard to plead no contest so that he basically could protect his pension. So he pleaded no contest. He was sentenced to two consecutive six month probation terms and 50 hours of community service.

[Sabrina]

If you're watching the video, my face

[Corinne]

should say it all. He resigned from Northport High School in June of 2018.

[Sabrina]

Resigned? So he wasn't even fired?

[Corinne]

Yes. Well, he's been on administrative leave, but yeah, I guess like.

[Sabrina]

Or the story was that he resigned probably to help with his benefits because if he was fired, maybe that would also impact.

[Corinne]

Right. Yeah, I'm not sure.

[Sabrina]

Protect him. Sure.

[Corinne]

And in 2013, he surrendered his teaching license. In December of 2012, the families of Marcus Freeman, Wesley McKinley and Brittany Palumbo filed wrongful death lawsuits against the Sarasota County School Board. So they couldn't file it against Principal George Kenney. Personally, because under Florida law, the school district employees are considered an extension of the school board. Had to go after the district.

[Sabrina]

I think that's also very fair. Like, the school board told him not to do it, but didn't actually intervene enough to make it stop.

[Corinne]

Right. Like, he kept doing it, and it was very open and public, so it was like he was doing it in secret. Kept doing it.

[Sabrina]

Yeah.

[Corinne]

In October of 2015, so that is three years later, the school board settled. Each family received $200,000. It's like nothing when your child dies. Yeah. But that is the maximum that any Florida government agency can pay without special approval from the state legislature or governor. The attorney for the families, Damian Mallard, said, basically, like, the families don't give a damn about the money. They have dead children.

[Sabrina]

Nothing can replace them. Yeah.

[Corinne]

No money.

[Sabrina]

Nothing can ever bring them back.

[Corinne]

Exactly. But the thing that was most disappointing was that Principal Kenny never apologized.

[Sabrina]

He never apologized.

[Corinne]

He never admitted to any wrongdoing. And that's where I was like. Because throughout this whole thing, I was like, okay. Like, maybe he just truly didn't understand,

[Sabrina]

which is still a crime.

[Corinne]

It's still a crime. It's still negligent. But did I think that that made him a terrible person?

[Sabrina]

He's not a malicious person.

[Corinne]

Yeah. It wasn't, like, with malice that he was doing these things. But then hearing that he never admitted fault, never was like, oh, my God, I'm so sorry. I can't believe this happened, that this happened, that my actions led to this. Like, nothing even.

[Sabrina]

Like, you can apologize without taking blame, like, or taking fault. You can believe that your hypnosis process didn't lead to their deaths, but also be so deeply sorry for these families who just lost their children.

[Corinne]

Apparently, he never apologized. It is really interesting, too, to watch in the docu series, because there's so many people who are being interviewed who respond to, like, now knowing everything, because obviously they're being interviewed many years after the fact. They're responding to questions about, like, Dr. Kenny and just the situation with such disgust for him in the situation. But then there are other people that were like, no, he really did help a lot of us.

[Sabrina]

That's what I was gonna ask. Cause he hypnotized over 70 people. Like, yeah. Were there people who feel changed for the better by hypnotism?

[Corinne]

Yeah. Some people did think that their lives changed for the better based on their relationship with him and the hypnosis that he did on them. So it is tough.

[Sabrina]

Yeah.

[Corinne]

George Kenney believes that Marcus was Simply in a car accident with no link to hypnosis. And that Wesley and Britney's deaths are just coincidence, given that he did hypnotize so many students and also, like, profiling the people who did go seek help from him, saying, you know, there's a chance.

[Sabrina]

I also have read a fact, and I don't know, again, I'm not qualified to say this, but I read a fact that when there are, like, multiple suicides, sometimes, like, someone who has been considering suicide actually feels more motivated to. After someone successfully does. So, like, it is hard to pinpoint the reason and cause for all of those.

[Corinne]

Right. And this is also. It's not a straightforward case. It's not like he was wasting someone's food or injecting them with something or sending them text messages encouraging them to take their lives. Take their lives. Yeah.

[Sabrina]

Yeah.

[Corinne]

This was hypnosis, where he was taping them and actively trying to lead them through exercises to help them with their specific thing that they asked for help with. So that's why it's really confusing.

[Sabrina]

Yeah.

[Corinne]

But again, like, he didn't apologize, which is so. Or it said that he didn't apologize, which is very shitty. And there are three kids who lost their lives.

[Sabrina]

Yeah.

[Corinne]

He is now living comfortably in retirement, sort of, I guess. He. He owns a bed and breakfast, apparently in North Carolina with his pension. So in the end, what we do know is that after three Principal Kenney's students died, after undergoing untrained hypnosis sessions with George Kenney, he continued to sell Hypnosis MP3s and CDs on Amazon. Once.

[Sabrina]

No.

[Corinne]

Yeah. Once his probation was done, he moved to North Carolina, describing his move as turning a page, where he now operates a bed and breakfast. Unfortunately for Marcus, Wesley and Brittany, those children did not get to turn the page.

[Sabrina]

How could he ever continue any type of hypnosis?

[Corinne]

I know, I literally have chill, like, goosebumps because I can't even fathom it. Makes me want to cry.

[Sabrina]

Like, that is, to me, the most malicious part of this story. To continue, you can be like, oh,

[Corinne]

he didn't say sorry. And it's like, well, did he not say sorry? Is that just what the lawyer said? He probably didn't, but there's still the. What is it? Like, the air of doubt, but I'm at a loss for words. But just like, you know, you're still trying to find a way to. To make him out to be like.

[Sabrina]

I'm also just putting myself in. In his shoes because I understand how he could go into all of this with good intentions. Fine. But three students die and you don't even for a second question your involvement and you continue to do hypnosis.

[Corinne]

I cannot really investigated for your involvement with hypnosis. It's not like you just didn't make the connection that it was your hypnosis. Like you're literally being told by investigators

[Sabrina]

that there might be.

[Corinne]

That it's a hypnosis.

[Sabrina]

And you continue to do the hypnosis.

[Corinne]

Yes. Also, it's not like this is the only way for him to survive is selling these CDs and MP3s like this. That is horrible.

[Sabrina]

I actually doubt he's making much money on those.

[Corinne]

No, it's very disturbing. Incredibly disturbing.

[Sabrina]

Geez.

[Corinne]

So that is the story, the real story behind the Look Into My Eyes documentary about the hypnosis and deaths involved behind Principal Kenny's behind closed doors hypnosis sessions.

[Sabrina]

I have never heard a lick of this story.

[Corinne]

Me neither. Not. But. But I kept seeing all the ads for the. For the and, like, promos for the docu series. So I was like, oh, wait, what is this? Like, hypnosis kills people.

[Sabrina]

Horrible.

[Corinne]

It is so messed up. But again, included in the show notes are resources for suicide prevention. You can call or text 9 8-8. You can text home to 741-741. And also for the LGBTQ community, a place that we donate to regularly. The Trevor Project is also a wonderful resource. You can text start to 678-6-7,8. All of these numbers are included in the show notes.

[Sabrina]

Yeah, that's upsetting. I'm like, mad. Yeah, I'm mad.

[Corinne]

Yeah. No, it's horrifying. Damn, it's horrifying. Anyway, sorry. That was definitely airing way more on the true crime side of things. But, like, that the tagline caught my eye. Right?

[Sabrina]

No, that's. I mean, absolutely hypnosis. And it does bring up this, like, larger debate and conversation about what the, like, brain can do and the influence that sound, words, and hypnosis, things like that can have on it. Damn. Okay, I have a story from our listener, Lexi, and it's called 23 years haunted hypnosis uncovers childhood entity attachment, nightmares, and haunted object.

[Corinne]

Wow. That's a lot. Yeah.

[Sabrina]

Hi, Corinne and Sabrina. My name is Lexi. She.

[Corinne]

Her.

[Sabrina]

I live in Rome, Italy. And first off, I just want to say thank you. I've been listening to two girls, my ghost for a few months now, and it's become my safe space. You're my new favorite.

[Corinne]

Well, you're welcome. Thank you for your pizza. And tomatoes.

[Sabrina]

Oh, I was like. I was like, where did we talk about Rome? Yeah, I wish I could get your pizza delivered here and your pasta and

[Corinne]

just your fresh ass tomatoes.

[Sabrina]

Okay, so this story begins with my first encounter with the paranormal, which happened when I was just over a year old. That encounter turned into a lifelong attachment that stayed with me until recently. And I'll try to tell it as clearly as I can, even though some parts feel a little tangled in memory and energy. And also, content warning. I do briefly mention suicide, but that's a content warning for this whole episode. It was summer. My parents had invited a couple of friends over for lunch. My dad was out in the garden grilling, and their friends were sitting on the couch watching tv. And my mom, who we'll call Faye to keep it simple in English, was rocking me to sleep in the darkened bedroom. And one thing you should know is I was an impossible baby. I didn't let my parents sleep for the first 36 months of my life.

[Corinne]

Oh, that sounds so familiar.

[Sabrina]

Like, yeah, just like Noah.

[Corinne]

She's 21 months and has just now started sleeping through the night.

[Sabrina]

Sometimes I barely slept an hour a day. Even now, at 24, I suffer from intense sleep issues. So that day, while my mom was trying to put me to sleep, the bedroom door was just slightly ajar. When my mom heard a whisper right outside. Faye, Faye, open the door. She assumed it was one of her friends and whispered back, I can't. I have the baby in my arms. You open it. But again, the voice said, faye, open the door. So she gave in, walked over and nudged the door open with her foot, only to find no one was there, just the empty hallway. She felt that kind of confusion that bleeds into fear. So she put me down and went to go check the living room. And that couple was still sitting in the living room watching tv, calm as ever. And my dad was still outside at the barbecue. But something had called her name. And something had entered that space and entered me. Because from that moment on, I was not alone. So Fast forward to 2005. Sadly, my dad took his own life after separating from my mom. He had bipolar and had been medicated for years. But unfortunately, he passed.

[Corinne]

Oh, I'm so sorry.

[Sabrina]

After his death, strange things began happening, which is a whole other chapter that I'll save for another email. But for years, I experienced what I thought were signs from him, like messages on steamed up mirrors. Literally the word boo on the mirror, which I think is so sweet.

[Corinne]

That is so sweet.

[Sabrina]

My keys would go missing, phone would go missing. My shirt would be tugged on when no one was there, Scratches on the walls. And sometimes I thought it was him. Sometimes I wondered if it was his parents who did die shortly after he did. But these experiences always centered on me, and rarely did anyone else believe what I was going through. Then, in 2024, I finally moved into my own home. And I had waited years to live alone. It was supposed to be my fresh start. But almost immediately, things started to happen. At first, I brushed them off. Until one night, I woke up suddenly. Not sleep paralysis? No. I was fully awake. And I saw two tall, dark figures standing at the foot of my bed. Their energy was male and they had glowing red eyes.

[Corinne]

Ooh, the glowing red eyes.

[Sabrina]

They didn't speak, but I understood what they wanted. They had visited because they wanted to eat. They were hungry.

[Corinne]

What the hell? The way that this email started, I absolutely thought it was going to be this lovely, like, oh, my grandfather and my dad came together.

[Sabrina]

Nope.

[Corinne]

To visit.

[Sabrina]

I turned over trying to ignore them. And that's when my dog growled, Trust your pets. The next morning, I convinced myself it was just a nightmare. But that wasn't so convincing because it would not leave my mind. I cleansed the house, and unfortunately, things escalated. Like, full glasses of water would be knocked over, Cups and plates were shattered. I heard buzzing and singing voices in the middle of the night. I was truly terrified. And I had just moved in.

[Corinne]

This is like poltergeist activity.

[Sabrina]

Yeah, but because I had just moved in, I wasn't going to give up either. I was excited. This was supposed to be my new chapter. So I started looking for something that could be guilty for causing all of this. And I noticed the chandelier in my bedroom. It was a huge antique rose bush shaped piece that I had bought secondhand. It's beautiful. There's a picture of it attached. Like, it's stunning.

[Corinne]

Oh, it's so whimsical and pretty.

[Sabrina]

I had bought it secondhand. It had twisting roses and tangled metal vines. But every time I looked at it, I felt dizzy. So I sprayed it with full moon holy water. And each time I would spray, a thick white mist would rise from it.

[Corinne]

Excuse me.

[Sabrina]

I thought I was cleansing it, but I wasn't. So I contacted a medium, an old friend of my mom's, who came to do a reading. And her conclusion was that the house wasn't the problem, But I was. That these things were attached to me. So she recommended a regression hypnosis to open a portal and release the entities. So I did it. Was me, the medium, and a hypnotherapist. She guided me into a deep vision where I found myself in a cave. Outside was the sea, and behind me was total darkness. And this total darkness was scary. I didn't want to turn around to face it. In fact, I couldn't turn around because I was so scared of it.

[Corinne]

The sea in front of you is also really scary. It's like when I think of being completely out of control about what can happen to you, I think of being in the ocean, like, lost at sea. So it's either you turn your back to the total darkness, or you go into the sea, where the sea will make of you what it wants.

[Sabrina]

So the medium joined me in the vision and placed her hands on my shoulder. And she helped me turn to look behind me. It's there that the medium saw them, the two entities. One was my father, and the other was something else. It climbed into my chest, pushing down on my lungs until I couldn't breathe. I managed to push it out, but the air still wouldn't come back. The therapist asked me to describe it, and I described it as a formless monster, constantly shifting its face. It had no mouth and was made of liquid. The medium channeled its voice. It said it was the one who had entered me When I was just two years old. It chose me. I was energy it could feed on. And now that I lived alone, I was finally it to devour. So, dating all the way back to that day, when Faye, her mother, put her to sleep and heard that voice.

[Corinne]

Holy shit.

[Sabrina]

Together, we managed to send it away. We opened a portal, and it went. I truly couldn't breathe properly for two weeks. But slowly it did get better. Then came my father's turn. The medium channeled him. He said his name was Chris, short for Christian. He admitted that he had been the one tugging my shirt, moving the pots, playing with the lights. But I couldn't bring myself to ask why. I was too emotional. And in the end, through this work, he was ready to go. He imagined a peaceful mountain landscape with streams and a perfect view. And I was able to let him go, too. We did one final check to make sure that no new entity was trying to attach itself to me. And that is when I saw a woman. She was soaking wet, skinny, naked, with long dark hair. And she said her name started with an S. She looked about 50. But before I could say anything else, the medium screamed, no, she's a disincarnate. Her name is Sarah. She's 52. She drowned in the River. What?

[Corinne]

Whoa. It's just a sudden hit from the medium about all the details.

[Sabrina]

And what does a disincarnate mean?

[Corinne]

I don't know. Let me Google it right now. Being free from the physical body, existing as a disembodied spirit or in an immaterial form.

[Sabrina]

Interesting.

[Corinne]

Which, like, is that not just a ghost? I don't know.

[Sabrina]

But I mean, the way the medium screamed, it's like. Doesn't seem good, right? It's like, don't engage with her almost.

[Corinne]

It's also a death metal band from the 90s.

[Sabrina]

Love that. After the medium screamed, we ended the session. I kept telling that the hypnotherapist that I could see a dark shadow with crazy spiky hair at the corner of my bedroom. And it was smiling at. Staring at me. So crazy the medium couldn't see it.

[Corinne]

What? That shocks me. Given, like, just everything that had just been. Yeah, Yeah.

[Sabrina]

I know that I haven't completely closed myself off, but after all of this, both the medium and hypnotherapist have told me that it should be enough to now enjoy my home peacefully. And after that, things did start to get better slowly. I even noticed my nightmare stopped for a little while. Because just recently those singing voices have come back. This time, though, they were soft, more feminine, gentle. And I haven't felt as afraid.

[Corinne]

I feel like you still need to keep your guard up for sure. Because for it to return and what happened last time. And maybe it's trying to be more gentle in itself approach to try to gain your trust again.

[Sabrina]

I know. With gratitude and ghostly love from Rome. Lexi.

[Corinne]

Oh, my gosh. Lexi. Well, here's the good thing about being in Rome. You got a lot of priests to exercise you. Oh.

[Sabrina]

I thought you say you can stress eat.

[Corinne]

You can stress eat.

[Sabrina]

And it's good food for you.

[Corinne]

Drink good cheap wine.

[Sabrina]

Yeah, The Vatican is right there. You're right. That's a better point. Yeah.

[Corinne]

Huh? The vampires.

[Sabrina]

The Vatican and the vampires. Priests and vampires, they're all there for you. They got you. Damn.

[Corinne]

That was a lot more extreme towards the end than I thought it would be. Because again, she opens up with, like, just the nice.

[Sabrina]

It describes a quaint visit. Yeah, yeah.

[Corinne]

Just her dad trying to be silly.

[Sabrina]

And also what a like, benign little encounter of, like, her mom trying to put her to sleep. And a soft voice being like, faye, open the door. Open the door.

[Corinne]

Again, it starts with the softness. Let that be your voice.

[Sabrina]

Trust nothing. Trust nothing. And if you do decide to do hypnosis, because I do think there is real, like benefit from it. Make sure you're doing it with actual medical professionals.

[Corinne]

Yes. And that you're doing a therapeutic in tandem as a whole with other therapeutic practices.

[Sabrina]

Yes, absolutely.

[Corinne]

Yeah.

[Sabrina]

Yeah.

[Corinne]

And you can listen to our podcast

[Sabrina]

and you can get episodes one week early and ad free on Patreon. You can also get bonus episodes. We also have Witch Class book club. We're reading Hollow by Selina Myers right now for our book club, which we will be discussing in May. So just in a couple weeks from this episode coming out. And if you are familiar with Selena, she's also selena spookyboo on TikTok and a listener of ours. We were fans and then she revealed that she's a fan of ours and now we obviously had to support her and read her book, which is amazing. And then what else? You can watch videos on YouTube, you can rate and review us on itunes, and please tell your friends, your family, your ghosts, all about us.

[Corinne]

Thank you to Jamie Ryan, who edits and produces our podcast and thank you to all of you. We love you and we will see you on the other side.

[Sabrina]

Very spooky.

[Aliza Kelly]

What the hell is going on these days? Why is everything so ridiculously crazy and intense and high stakes and just like wild? Well, friends, it's tea. It's actually astrology. Hi, I'm Elisa Kelly, astrologer, author and now the host of my brand new podcast, Astrology with Aliza Kelly. My brand new show begins on Monday, April 6th, and every week I will be bringing you two piping hot new episodes. Wherever you get your podcasts, on Spotify, On Apple, on YouTube, you name it, I am serving the tea to you. I'll meet you wherever you are on Mondays. I'll deliver your weekly, weekly brew. This is where we talk about everything you need to know. For the week ahead, I'll serve horoscopes plus tarot, plus journal prompts, plus easy to follow explanations as to what is actually happening in the sky and most importantly, what it means for you. So you'll always know exactly how to prepare for the week ahead. And on Wednesdays, we're gonna have a tea party. In these Wednesday episodes, we are going to steep deep into different parts of astrology that actually shape your life. We're going to get into your moon sign. We're going to unpack the best career path for you based on your birth chart. We're going to talk about timing and all of the crazy rare astrology that's happening right now. And maybe we'll even look at the astrology of the most shocking scandals and conspiracies and controversies. Maybe we'll even talk to celebrity guests. One things for sure, these tea parties are going to be amazing and I can't wait to stir it up with you. So make sure you follow and subscribe to Astrology with Elisa Kelly right now on Spotify, on Apple, on YouTube, at my channel. Astrolaty is everywhere and I want you to be ready for the magic. Astrology premieres on Monday, April 6 and trust me, you don't want to miss it. So I'll see you there.

[Sabrina]

Stitch Fix Stop shopping. Get styled a plus on the outfit. Ms. Turner, you are about to slay parent teacher conferences.

[Corinne]

Oh these just the most perfect fitting

[Sabrina]

jeans my stylist sent me. Oh hello you who didn't set one foot in a mall and still looks amazing. Just share your size, style and budget and your stylist sends personal personalized looks right to your door. Stitch Fix get started today@stitch fix.com to my stylist, this look is dedicated to you. Thank you, thank you.