205: Please Say Psych! Ft. Jemma Sbeg

Summary

Episode Overview

Title: Two Hot Takes
Episode: 205: Please Say Psych! Ft. Jemma Sbeg
Release Date: February 27, 2025
Host: Morgan Absher
Guest: Jemma Sbeg

In this episode of Two Hot Takes, host Morgan Absher welcomes psychologist Jemma Sbeg to delve into the intricate psychology behind some of the most compelling "Am I the Asshole" (AITA) stories from Reddit. Together, they explore themes of boundaries, emotional abuse, relationship dynamics, and the challenges faced in one's twenties. Jemma brings her extensive background in psychology, economics, and politics, providing insightful analysis into each scenario discussed.

Story 1: Am I the Asshole for Throwing Out a Piece of Art My Boyfriend Ruined?

Original Post: A woman shares her frustration about her boyfriend altering an original watercolor she purchased without her permission, leading her to destroy the artwork herself.

Summary

The story revolves around a woman who purchased an original watercolor piece. Due to difficulties in finding a suitable frame, her boyfriend took it upon himself to cut the artwork to fit an available frame, compromising the composition and damaging the piece. Feeling disrespected and hurt by his actions, she ultimately ripped the painting and discarded it, leaving both parties in a tense and awkward situation.

Discussion & Analysis

Morgan (00:08:00): "He thought enough to not cut the signature, but then cut one side. Like, he didn't even take, like, a half inch from each side, which is what I would have done."
Gemma (00:12:23): "She sounds like she's still upset... she shifted the focus from her feelings to destroying the art, which only harms both of them."

Morgan and Gemma analyze the boyfriend's intentions, recognizing that while his actions might have stemmed from a desire to help, they violated personal boundaries and failed to respect the value she placed on the artwork. They emphasize the importance of communication and setting clear boundaries in relationships to prevent such misunderstandings.

Notable Quote:
Gemma [00:14:47]: "If you can't talk about it and set clear boundaries, you're just allowing disrespect to continue."

Key Takeaways

• Respecting Boundaries: Personal belongings, especially those with sentimental value, should remain untouched without explicit permission.
• Communication: Open and honest dialogue can prevent destructive actions fueled by good intentions.
• Emotional Processing: Recognizing and managing one's emotions is crucial in handling conflicts constructively.

Story 2: Am I the Asshole for Kicking My Sister Out of My Baby Shower?

Original Post: A woman confronts her sister for making hurtful comments during her baby shower, leading her to expel her sister from the event.

Summary

The narrator hosted a baby shower amidst dealing with hyperemesis gravidarum (HG), a severe form of morning sickness. During the event, her sister made insensitive remarks, blaming her for her health struggles and lifestyle choices. Feeling humiliated and unsupported, she demanded her sister leave, which resulted in an ongoing strain within the family.

Discussion & Analysis

Morgan (00:30:44): "That's 100% hell no. You deserved better than to be made the butt of jokes during such a vulnerable time."
Gemma (00:31:17): "It's a sign of emotional incompatibility when you discuss problems with others before addressing them with your partner."

Morgan and Gemma discuss the impact of external voices within family dynamics, highlighting how certain behaviors can perpetuate emotional harm. They explore the notions of family values, self-respect, and the balance between asserting one's feelings and striving for relationship repair.

Notable Quote:
Gemma [00:37:08]: "Forgiveness in relationships builds resilience, but it shouldn't come at the cost of perpetual hurt."

Key Takeaways

• Emotional Boundaries: Establishing who can influence personal decisions is vital for emotional well-being.
• Family Dynamics: Navigating family relationships requires balancing empathy with self-respect.
• Conflict Resolution: Sometimes, prioritizing one's mental health necessitates difficult decisions, such as distancing from toxic behavior.

Story 3: Am I the Asshole for Ending My Marriage After Discovering My Wife's Emotional Affair?

Original Post: A man describes how his wife became emotionally abusive post-childbirth, cheated on him, and now seeks reconciliation, leaving him conflicted about ending the marriage.

Summary

After the birth of their child, the wife exhibited signs of emotional abuse and infidelity. The husband discovered evidence of an emotional affair through texts and confrontations that revealed her ongoing relationship with a coworker. Despite attempts to salvage the marriage, including setting boundaries and seeking separation, the wife's persistent pleas for reconciliation have left him uncertain about the future of their relationship.

Discussion & Analysis

Gemma (00:44:50): "No, I don't think you are. There’s compassion for postpartum challenges, but the emotional abuse and cheating cross a boundary."
Morgan (00:48:14): "He loves himself more, but he wants to have that cake and eat it too. He's not willing to make a sacrifice."

Morgan and Gemma examine the complexities of postpartum changes, emotional affairs versus physical cheating, and the importance of self-worth in deciding to end a troubled marriage. They emphasize that while empathy for mental health struggles is essential, consistent emotional abuse and betrayal are unacceptable in a committed relationship.

Notable Quote:
Morgan [00:52:43]: "He loves himself more, but he wants to have that cake and eat it too. He’s not willing to make a sacrifice."

Key Takeaways

• Recognizing Emotional Abuse: Identifying patterns of verbal and emotional mistreatment is crucial for personal well-being.
• Self-Worth: Valuing oneself involves making tough decisions to leave unhealthy relationships.
• Postpartum Support: Adequate support systems are essential for families navigating postpartum challenges.

Story 4: Am I the Asshole for Wanting to Replace My Boyfriend's Pirate Ship Bed?

Original Post: A woman expresses her frustration over her boyfriend's refusal to change his uniquely designed pirate ship bed, which causes discomfort due to their height differences.

Summary

The boyfriend has a pirate ship-themed bed, a childhood purchase that now poses practical issues due to the woman's height. Despite her discomfort and attempts to find a compromise, he remains adamant about maintaining the bed's aesthetic, leading to tension between them.

Discussion & Analysis

Gemma (01:14:12): "I think when you move in together, it becomes a conversation to balance personal quirks with shared comfort."
Morgan (01:19:58): "It's about respecting each other’s needs while appreciating each other's uniqueness."

Morgan and Gemma approach this light-hearted yet relatable scenario by discussing the importance of compromise and mutual respect in relationship dynamics. They suggest practical solutions and emphasize the value of accepting each other's differences to maintain harmony.

Key Takeaways

• Compromise: Finding a middle ground is essential when personal preferences clash in a relationship.
• Appreciating Uniqueness: Embracing each partner's quirks fosters a stronger, more affectionate bond.
• Practical Solutions: Creative adjustments can resolve seemingly trivial conflicts, enhancing overall relationship satisfaction.

General Discussions

Throughout the episode, Morgan and Gemma delve into broader psychological concepts that underpin the AITA stories:

Setting Boundaries

Both hosts stress the importance of establishing and respecting personal boundaries in relationships to prevent misunderstandings and emotional harm.

Notable Quote:
Gemma [00:27:08]: "Boundaries are a sign of respect and love for the other person."

Emotional Abuse and Communication

They explore how emotional abuse manifests and the critical role of open communication in addressing and resolving conflicts within relationships.

Notable Quote:
Morgan [00:27:15]: "We can't play mind games. I would rather just have good communication."

Work Relationships and Infidelity

The hosts discuss the complexities of workplace relationships, the thin line between platonic and romantic interactions, and the potential red flags that may indicate emotional affairs.

Notable Quote:
Gemma [01:14:45]: "Work wives can sometimes overstep boundaries, leading to detrimental effects on personal relationships."

Partner Support and Co-Parenting

Emphasizing the importance of mutual support and cooperation in co-parenting, they highlight how individual behaviors can impact the well-being of the entire family unit.

Notable Quote:
Morgan [00:16:04]: "You can't light yourself on fire to keep others warm. Your well-being matters too."

Conclusion

In this episode of Two Hot Takes, Morgan Absher and psychologist Jemma Sbeg provide a deep dive into the psychological underpinnings of complex relationship scenarios shared on Reddit. Through candid discussions and expert analysis, they offer valuable insights into setting boundaries, recognizing emotional abuse, navigating family dynamics, and maintaining healthy communication. The episode underscores the importance of self-respect, mutual understanding, and proactive conflict resolution in fostering fulfilling and resilient relationships.

Key Takeaways:

• Communication is Crucial: Open and honest dialogue can prevent and resolve many relationship issues.
• Respect Boundaries: Honoring personal space and belongings fosters trust and respect.
• Self-Worth Matters: Prioritizing one's emotional well-being is essential, even when faced with difficult decisions.
• Understanding Emotional Abuse: Recognizing and addressing emotional mistreatment is vital for maintaining healthy relationships.
• Balance in Work Relationships: Maintaining professional boundaries with coworkers is important to protect personal relationships from unnecessary strain.

Listeners are encouraged to reflect on these themes and apply the insights to their own relationships, fostering healthier and more supportive connections.

Transcript

[Morgan]

Okay. I think we're rolling on everything. I'm so excited to have you.

[Gemma]

I'm so excited to be here. Also, like, the vibes were high. We walked in, I was laying on the couch, we were chatting.

[Morgan]

I love this. I know. I'm still doing my makeup. As Gemma walks in, I'm like, I'm so sorry. It's raining in LA and the world is falling apart. We just don't know how to handle rain here.

[Gemma]

You really don't. It's a bit embarrassing for you guys. It is.

[Morgan]

And then we have the rain, and then we have the mudslides and the earthquakes, and it's just.

[Gemma]

I was overwhelmed by that whole discussion of being like. I thought this was like, the Sunshine State, but it's like the natural disaster state. And who. When did that become a thing?

[Morgan]

I know, like, two of the most popular places to live, California and Florida. We get really hit with the weather.

[Gemma]

Really should have rethought that when you were.

[Morgan]

I'm telling you, Minnesota's underrated. Guys. I'll keep. I'll keep telling you all, everyone, you know, it's going to be a climate refuge. Minnesota.

[Gemma]

Don't let them know now you're going to give it all away.

[Morgan]

I've got my house there. I'm fine. So, everyone, there's. There's enough houses to go around. Come on, guys. But where are you coming from? All the way from.

[Gemma]

From Sydney, Australia.

[Morgan]

From down under.

[Gemma]

Down under? Down under. That's not even an Australian accent. I have an Australian accent. Why did I do that in a British accent? I don't know.

[Morgan]

I really liked it.

[Gemma]

I guess I'm faking birds. I went out with, like, some friends last night, and they were all showing me photos from when they went to Thunder Down Under.

[Morgan]

The show?

[Gemma]

Yeah, in Vegas.

[Morgan]

And I was like, I always wanted to go.

[Gemma]

I was like, those men aren't Australian.

[Morgan]

Really?

[Gemma]

Well, I was like, I've never seen an Australian man that looks like that before. Like, they're be. They have, like, beach muscles, like surfing muscles, not like steroid muscles. But I was like, I'm still down to give it a go.

[Morgan]

Always down to try something once.

[Gemma]

Yeah, why not?

[Morgan]

I love it. Oh, my gosh. I'm so excited for today. I've been binging your content, and I have, like, this Newfoundland sense of self. I just, like, I'm obsessed. I. I actually talked about one of your podcasts the other day on this show, and I was like, there's a study and I'm probably butchering It. But, you know, Gemma talked about it and it was like, men and women who are friends and they went in together and the women had different answers than the men.

[Gemma]

And like, yes. The male friendship study that. Do you want me to tell the listeners?

[Morgan]

Yeah, because I butchered it.

[Gemma]

Okay. So basically I butchered it. I did this episode on the psychology of male female friendships because everyone has been like, I get it a lot. People in their 20s being like, can I be friends with someone of the opposite sex who is like, heterosexual? And I was like, I need to research this. And I found this like, incredulous study where basically they put. They invited 88 pairs of heterosexual friends, opposite sex. So men and women who were friends, they said, bring in your male friend, bring in your female friend. Then they separated them. They put them in two separate rooms and they were like, all your answers are completely anonymous. We're not going to tell anyone. Now you tell us, are you attracted to the friend that you brought with you?

[Morgan]

Makes me so nervous.

[Gemma]

I know. And then they said a follow up question and do you think that they. They like you back? And the women were like, you know, what, 50, 50, maybe. Maybe like some of them were attracted. Some of them weren't. But most of the ones who were like, they're. I'm attracted to them were like, they're not attracted to me.

[Morgan]

So.

[Gemma]

So, you know, I'm not interested in dating them. But the men were like, almost the majority were like, yeah, I'm attracted to her and she's totally attracted to me. Like, I would go there.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Gemma]

And it was this huge thing where I was like, yeah, I don't think men and women. Well, I do think men and women can be friends, but not if there's sexual attraction. Yeah, but this study is showing that there's just like such this underlying sense of like, romantic attraction, especially in your 20s.

[Morgan]

I know. And maybe we might have a story or two that gets into that today. But something else I came across as, like, sometimes men perceive like, kindness as flirting, even in just like professional settings. Right. And it was really interesting. I don't know if that person had a study that they were talking about, but I was like, that's an interesting thought.

[Gemma]

Yeah. And like, emotional safety, because women are like, I think just naturally we've been conditioned to be such like, homes to everyone's emotions around us.

[Morgan]

Oh, my God.

[Gemma]

So men might interpret that as like, wow, they love me. It's like, no, I'm just being a nice person.

[Morgan]

I'm just being nice. Yeah, I'm just trying to be nice.

[Gemma]

And they're like, I really, I've really.

[Morgan]

Had to think about this lately. I'm like, dude, I'm like, does he think I'm flirting with him? Because he's kind of flirting back and I was just being nice. I know, it's really, it's really interesting. But of course, as usual, I've done a terrible job introducing my guests today. I've said it, but. Psychology of your twenties is your podcast.

[Gemma]

The psychology of your twenties and mantra.

[Morgan]

And as you can tell, the girls got the studies. She's got the facts. Do you have a psychology degree or like, how did you get into this?

[Gemma]

I sure do. I've got a psychology degree. And then I also. Not many people know this. I also have like economics and like politics degree.

[Morgan]

Let's go.

[Gemma]

So I can do. I can do some math on the fly. Not really, but I went to uni for it. I did like a specialization as well. So I went on and did more on like cognitive neuroscience. And then I worked in psychology and mental health for. For a while. And also when I was doing the podcast, it's kind of a bit heavy, but I worked in child maltreatment and domestic violence. So not that I'm just gonna. I always say it and I'm like, let's just dabble the moon.

[Morgan]

I mean, we, we come across a lot of stories that relate to that and it's a tough field, but it's like you're helping so many people and it was amazing.

[Gemma]

It was so incredibly rewarding. But it's also incredibly soul crushing. So people who are still doing it and who like genuine heroes, like the emotional labor of those professions and like the, the amount that they give. This has just turned into like a no. Like, I'm so grateful for you and for you and for you. But yeah, that's what I used to do.

[Morgan]

Oh, that's amazing. You have like the most well rounded background I think I've ever come across. I'm like, the psychology, the Paul pol. I cannot talk today. The politics, the economics. I'm like, there's so much like. It's like you can make a Venn diagram with all of those things. And like the psychology of the pol just. I'm blown away.

[Gemma]

Really helped. Do you know what I mean? And I also went to a music high school because I wanted to be a trombone. I wanted to be a trombone player.

[Morgan]

Trombone. That's so cool.

[Gemma]

Did I get bullied in high school? Yes.

[Morgan]

I mean, it wasn't a Tuba, though? No, trombones are cool.

[Gemma]

I thought it was cool.

[Morgan]

I like a trombone. I feel like trombones and I think saxophones are. They're more appreciated than the trombone. But trombones and French horns are really underappreciated.

[Gemma]

You don't know how hard it is as well. You've got to be really fit to play a tromboner. Right.

[Morgan]

I played a clarinet for a season and it was tough.

[Gemma]

Did you get like, always get the splinters? Yeah.

[Morgan]

You had to suck on your reed before, get it ready and.

[Gemma]

And like, guys, it's gonna sound gross, but the amount of saliva that comes with those kinds of instruments, it was nasty. That's not sexy. Like when you're like a 13 year old girl and you're like, no, I joined.

[Morgan]

I joined band to play the flute and be really cute. And then he goes, no, bitch, you're gonna play the clarinet. I was like, I guess it didn't last long.

[Gemma]

That's all right.

[Morgan]

Oh, man. Okay, well, you are gonna be perfect for our theme today. I started out by looking for stories that were like, damn, 20s are rough because you know all about the psychology of your 20s. So I was like, okay, Gemma's gonna know that. And it kind of turned into like, please say psych. Like you. You've gotta be kidding. Like this. What? Like, it's just so goofy. And there's again, kind of a Venn diagram between those two themes that I have. But yeah, they're gonna be some good stories for you today.

[Gemma]

Psychological psych. They're actually terrible.

[Morgan]

Some people might think so. We. We'll see. We'll see what their takes are.

[Gemma]

I'm excited.

[Morgan]

Okay, let's dive. Okay. Up first for us. This is coming from Am I the? It is 12 days old, titled Am I the? For throwing out a piece of art my boyfriend ruined. Two years ago, I saw an original watercolor piece that I liked and I contacted the artist and I bought it. When the piece arrived, I sought a frame for it, but I hadn't been able to find a frame for that size. Every time I went to the store, they were all too big or too small. So I just kept the piece in an envelope in my desk. I would sometimes look at it. Remember I had to find a frame for it, but would later forget again. Work, family and life leaves little time to devote to thinking about a frame for a painting. And I don't have any framing businesses near me, so that wasn't an option either. Today my boyfriend is dusting and comes out of the office showing Me the painting on a spare frame he had been using for something else. I asked him if that frame is 9 by 12. He tells me it's 8 by 10. That he had to cut a piece of the artwork to make it fit. When I look at it, the piece went from a centralized composition to having the composition indented to the left side because he cut all the whole inch on the one side to save the artist's signature, which was on the extreme opposite end. For reference, imagine if you cut the Mona Lisa to the point where her head is no longer the center. When he notices I'm perplexed, he nonchalantly tells me that the painting was in an envelope anyways, and it's better that it's out so we can see it. I get mad because this is not the first time he has taken something of mine and given it away, offered it to someone, or just not asked and done whatever he wants with it. His mother does the same thing with his things at her house. In their family, if you're not using something, anyone can do with it as they please. I explained to him, in my family, you don't do anything with other people's stuff. I have the tendency to ruminate on thoughts, so I try not to engage negative emotions because then I just can't let go of them. And I cycle and I cycle through them, and it makes my life miserable. And I have to devote a lot of energy to get me back to normal. Every time I looked at the framed painting, I felt a new wave of sadness, anger, and frustration ripple over me. So I took the frame down, took the painting out of it, ripped it into four pieces, and threw it in the garbage. When my boyfriend saw it, he was shocked and visibly hurt. I get that his intentions were good, but he ruined a piece of art that was not his to begin with. Now it's awkward at home because I'm still fuming and he's sad. Am I the asshole?

[Gemma]

Holy shit. He needs to just get you a new painting.

[Morgan]

I know, but you know what?

[Gemma]

It's the context. Like, when I first heard it, I was like, this is just like kind of like a, you know, like a golden retriever boyfriend thing to do, where he's like, well, it's sitting in the drawer and now I've brought it out for you. So doesn't that, like, make it worth it?

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Gemma]

And, you know, he saved the signature.

[Morgan]

I'm like, sweet. I'm like, there was. There was some thought, some thought behind it, but, like, I would never. I don't know. And maybe this is like, boy brain versus girlfriend. Because I tell my fiance this all the time. I'm like, that. That's kind of a boy brain thing you did. Like, girlfriend, girl brain wouldn't do. But I'm like, in my head, I would never think to cut art that someone purchased. I'm like, that is the art. Like, this isn't a watercolor she made. This is something that was purchased. And he thought enough to not cut the signature, but then cut one side. Like, he didn't even take, like, a half inch from each side, which is what I would have done.

[Gemma]

He didn't even just fold it over so that, like. Or do something like that.

[Morgan]

Or, like, where's the piece? Like, can we not.

[Gemma]

Can we glue it?

[Morgan]

Can we not, like, seam it together in a frame that fits?

[Gemma]

Yeah. I'm also like, the fact that he thought so deeply about taking it out, fixing it, putting it in a frame, cutting it. But that's not the thing that she wants him to think about. She wants him to think about her family values. Not her family values, but her, like, sense of justice and how she wants her things to be treated. So I feel like what happened was she was like, you've thought about it, but you thought about the wrong things.

[Morgan]

I know. What I mean is that, like. I guess, too, it seems like she's been very clear, setting the boundary. Like, she said, hey, please don't touch my stuff. Please don't give my stuff away. And it's something he kind of continues to do.

[Gemma]

It sounds very. See, I'm leaning more. It's nuanced.

[Morgan]

I know.

[Gemma]

It's so nuanced.

[Morgan]

And there's so much, like, here I'm like, how clear had that conversation been in the past? That's what I'm thinking of, setting that boundary. Were you just like, yeah, please don't touch my stuff? And it's like, okay, well, is he interpreting that as any of your stuff? Like, hey, you bought the toaster. I can't touch the toaster. Yeah.

[Gemma]

You live together. I'm assuming so. And, you know, I do think he was trying to be helpful. But the thing is, it's like, you're also allowed to have your emotional reaction, even if, like, the intentions were pure. And I think that, like, she's showing some level of maturity by acknowledging that and being like, okay, I know that. I know that. Personally, I am someone who has to. Who feels their emotions really deeply. I know he didn't mean it. Like, she's using very good Eye language, you know, Very good. A therapist would say, that's great. But then there's like, the extreme of being like, and I ripped it up.

[Morgan]

I know. I'm like, that felt very emotionally immature.

[Gemma]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

But I'm like, maybe that's how she processes it. And it's just like.

[Gemma]

Like, she sounds like she's still upset.

[Morgan]

I know. And it's also like, it felt very pointed where it's like he saw the pieces ripped up. It's like. It's like, you know when you, like, are mad at your partner and you're just like, well, I'm going to, like, put it in front of him so he knows I'm still mad, or I'm going to, like. Like to send the point home. It's like, she ripped it up. And then did you put it on top of the garbage so the next time he opened it, he would see it? And like, even if you went to the garbage again and you had to throw something away, you picked up those pieces and put your new garbage in there and then reset it back on top. I have no idea. Right? We have no idea. But I'm like. I'm like, you were. You still feel like you were trying to send a message in the way you were processing through it.

[Gemma]

It's also this thing of, like, okay, you ruined my piece of pa. You ruined my piece of art, so I'm going to ruin it even more. But that's only hurting you. He obviously doesn't have the same appreciation for it as you do, but you're the one who now no longer even gets to enjoy even the slither in that language of the art. Then you've also made him feel bad. And now. Now the environment that you're in doesn't is, like, toxic.

[Morgan]

Nobody's winning here.

[Gemma]

Cold.

[Morgan]

Nobody's winning.

[Gemma]

Nobody is winning.

[Morgan]

No.

[Gemma]

So I'm like, that is one of those things where it's like, you kind of have to either. I know it sounds so simple, but there's so many, like, situations in a relationship where you just have to let things go.

[Morgan]

I know.

[Gemma]

And I saw this, like, photo of this old couple the other day on TikTok with, like, the caption of how many times did they have to forgive each other to get to this point?

[Morgan]

Ooh.

[Gemma]

And I'm like, I know I'm doing really deep with this, but that's what I think about in those instances where it's like, yes, a mistake was made, however much, intentional, unintentional, or ignorant. But then you've Heightened this whole emotional situation so that now you both feel terrible.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Gemma]

But wouldn't you be happier if you just forgave and then had a serious conversation and were like, this is gonna be the consequence next time? Because the only consequence is, like, for her, she feels shit, and she's never up.

[Morgan]

Well, now, as someone who. I mean, she said here, like, I ruminate. I tend to cycle and cycle, and I get that. I'm a ruminator through and through. And so for me, if I don't talk something out with my fiance, I'm like, okay. Like, I'm so unsettled. Like, we just need to come to, like, a resolution in this. And, like, okay, if we need to take a break for an hour, that's cool. But, like, we can't go days not addressing this.

[Gemma]

No.

[Morgan]

And so now she's on this part of, like, she's now ruminating on how he feels sad and how the place doesn't feel like a happy home. And it's like, was. Was it worth it? Like, yeah. Are you an. For throwing out a piece of art that your boyfriend ruined? No. It's your art. You can do what you want with it. But was it necessarily, like, the best way to handle it? Maybe not. Yeah.

[Gemma]

Simple solution. Like, come. I'm in a therapizer situation. He needs to buy you a new piece of art, and you need to tell him that you want a new piece of art.

[Morgan]

I know. What if that art was, like, $500?

[Gemma]

That's a watercolor that she had in the drawer in an envelope. Unless it was literally the Mona Lisa.

[Morgan]

Or, like, a Picasso watercolor. Yeah. I'm hoping she can, you know, go back and contact the artist and get another one. You know, even if it's maybe a print this time. Who? Yeah, who knows? There's.

[Gemma]

Oh, yeah. Dang. I kind of thought it was a print, but you're right. It's probably one.

[Morgan]

It was probably, like, an original piece. So I'm like, dang. I know. And I'm like, was he an idiot in all of this? Yeah, I. I go back and forth with these things that are, like, seemingly good intentions but, like, end up being bad. Like, did you hear the story about the room where the wife went on a vacation and she came home, and the husband had painted the room green, but it wasn't the green she wanted. And she had intentionally told him in past occasions, like, please involve me in big decisions, and he painted the room green, and it was not the green she liked.

[Gemma]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

And it was like, well, you said forest green and I painted it forest green. But she wasn't happy because she wasn't involved and she wanted to pick the color and didn't like the color. But it's like, okay, well was that nice or was that, was that mean? Was that bad? Like, I, I struggle with these that are like seemingly nice gestures but have bad consequences.

[Gemma]

It's like, it's not a nice thing if you're only doing it because you want to appear nice. You know what I mean? Like, I just think that's the case. It's like you do a favor for someone and they're like, well, I didn't want you to do that. And then you suddenly. It feels quite manipulative where you turn on and you're like, well, I did this nice thing. And it's like, well, I didn't want you to do it.

[Morgan]

Like, I didn't ask for it.

[Gemma]

Yeah, it's like, so you did it to make yourself feel like a good person, but. And now I have to be like, suppressing my own feelings to make you feel like a good person, whereas I'm actually unhappy. So you're just feeling nice even though no one's happy. I know.

[Morgan]

I feel like I could spiral in that too because it's like, it's like, why do people do nice things? Is it just because they're genuinely nice? Or do they want to feel nice for helping someone? And I'm like, is anyone really nice? Or do we all just have self serving motives and that's why we do nice things?

[Gemma]

Morgan, we need to slow down.

[Morgan]

I know.

[Gemma]

It's like that episode of Friends. I'm scared, Phoebe. I'm scared. Time is passing. What is humanity?

[Morgan]

What episode of Friends where Phoebe has.

[Gemma]

The same dilemma and allows herself to be stung by a bee?

[Morgan]

Oh my God. And then like the beat eyes.

[Gemma]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Donates to pbs. Like, oh my God. Because everyone's like this. You know what? I think it's like, it's fine to do nice things if it also makes you feel good. But that can't be the sole reason you're doing it.

[Morgan]

Okay, I like that. I'll be happy with that. I'll be happy with that.

[Gemma]

And soon.

[Morgan]

The top comment on this one, he was visibly sad. Him the butcher of the art, not the asshole. No, babe, he's careless to the point of negligence and doesn't know how to use a brain. Or he did this maliciously to make you okay with his tendency to do shit like this. Bright red flags. I'm furious for you. You felt attached to this artwork and kept it safe. You've been hunting for a way to display it, but only if you could find the perfect way to do so. There was no rush. The frame would speak to you when it was time. But he not only destroyed the piece of art you loved, but he ruined the experience around it. This speaks to his character. And if he doesn't understand why this was an unspeakable offense, I would dump him yesterday. I could not live a life filled with so much disregard.

[Gemma]

That's a bit harsh.

[Morgan]

That has 13,000 upvotes.

[Gemma]

Oh, my God. I'm really starting to rethink how I think about my relationship. My. My relationship. Because I'm like, I'm sorry. Every relationship has to have some level of repair. I just don't think that if you're with someone, you should always assume that they're trying to be malicious.

[Morgan]

No. And like, I have this, like, silly example. Like, I was out of town recently and, you know, my fiance Justin was responsible for taking care of the horses. Yeah, One of our horses gets two pills a day. He's got cushions. So he is a high needs little pony. And we have to hide his pills in these, like, horse treats that have, like, a pill pocket. And you have to, like, keep them soft because otherwise you can't put the pill in and, like, squish it around. And he left the canister open. He, like, opened it, grabbed one, and then didn't completely shut it. So when I got home, they're all crunchy and it's like, justin, did you not care? Did you not care about the horse? Do you not care about me? Now I have to order new pillow pockets. Like, are you so. You're just terrible. Like, you did it intentionally. Like, if I thought like that. That sounds crazy, doesn't it?

[Gemma]

And also, you will never find love because every single person, like, makes stupid mistakes and has flaws and you could read terrible things into every single thing. Like, I don't know. Also, like, yeah, it's annoying, but I don't know. I forget to put lids on things all the time. But you're allowed to feel upset about it.

[Morgan]

Yeah, but like, this. I'm like, was he an idiot? For sure, for sure. And like, I guess I need more context. I'm like, maybe there's a comment from OP. Maybe she's like, what else he's done?

[Gemma]

But I'm like, I feel like you're taking something and you're coloring it with your own brush. In that situation, that person. Yeah. And I think maybe I'm coloring it with my own brush where I'm like, yeah, that stuff happens. I would be really upset. And I can understand, like, having a really intense emotional reaction, but dump him yesterday. You are seeing one slice of a relationship, and you're applying it to everything.

[Morgan]

I know. I'm like, really? I'm really confused.

[Gemma]

Like, but then I'm conflicted because she's like, this happens all the time.

[Morgan]

And she did say it happens. Like, she did say it happens, you know, occasionally or whatever. And, like, because of his context and how he grew up, like, sharing things that you're not using, it's like, it's fair game. Which I have a problem with. I like, I hate when people touch my things. I don't know if it's like, Yeah, I don't know if it's a scarce. Do you have a sibling? I did. I have an older sibling and two younger ones.

[Gemma]

That makes sense, right? You're the middle child. Everyone was always touching your stuff, whereas I was the protector. So I'm like, go for it. I don't know. Oh, so I just grew up with such a big, like, Italian family where I was like, you can't really have your own things. Like, you got to get used to it.

[Morgan]

I know. And I'm like, I just. My things are so precious. Don't touch them. OP is very active on Reddit. This is definitely giving real account, real problem. Because I am scrolling to even find this post more if there have been.

[Gemma]

Anything else about her boyfriend.

[Morgan]

So I'm trying to see if there's any context because, like, what? You know, there were mentions of he's done this before with things, and maybe it doesn't even matter. But I'm like, if you've had a very clear conversation with him and he then did this, then I'd be like, okay, maybe that comment is a little more. You know, it's got more juice behind it.

[Gemma]

I will also say, and maybe this will piss people off, but I do think actually it's a sign of emotional incompatibility if you are talking about an issue or a problem with people on the Internet or with your friends before you talk about it with your partner. And I say this, I've said this before, and people have been like, what the heck? No.

[Morgan]

But I'm like, it's tough because people get so much bad advice from their friends.

[Gemma]

Yeah. Like, they really do.

[Morgan]

I'm like, I almost. I would probably trust neutral Internet people more. There's so many stories I did like a Patreon episode and I had like a bunch of stories about cheating and the amount of people that were like, oh, you should stay with him, you should reconcile. And it's like, why are you giving her that advice? But he cheated when she was postpartum. Like, what? Like what? Why are you giving her that advice?

[Gemma]

But then also, like, I have a big pet peeve with people being like, dump him. Like, dump him and you should do that. And if not, you don't have self respect. And if that, you're looking over huge red flags. I'm like, you don't understand the relationship. Obviously, if it's abuse and if it's something that is even minor emotional abuse, I understand that. I guess I don't have the context, but I don't look at that as being abusive.

[Morgan]

No. So.

[Gemma]

And also dump. If you'd be like, dump him. I don't know. How many times have you been with a terrible person of your friends have said, dump him and you've actually done it? Zero.

[Morgan]

Me. Me, for me personally, zero. Yeah, I went through a lot. I'm not seeing any comments from OP in regards to this post. Big fan of RuPaul's Drag Race. Um, but nothing in reply to this post.

[Gemma]

So would be good friends.

[Morgan]

Then I'm just like, I don't know. I'm like, I want to know more. I want to know what else he's given away and torn up. But I don't know. I'm going to see if there's any other comments that say, you know, anything different. Like, slow down, top comment.

[Gemma]

Yeah, I'd be interested in that.

[Morgan]

Next comment down. It was such an unnecessary risk for him to take. Why wouldn't he just bring his idea to crop it to OP first and at least give her the opportunity to approve it or not. Based on the fact that he's now sulking, I think he's just a dingus that's clueless about art and composition.

[Gemma]

I agree with that.

[Morgan]

He's a dingus.

[Gemma]

He's a dingus. And I 100% agree with that person. And I love that person.

[Morgan]

A little more. A little more.

[Gemma]

I like that. It's more.

[Morgan]

They've touched more grass.

[Gemma]

Yeah, let's not dump him. Like, he doesn't understand art.

[Morgan]

I know. And like, it's like, okay, have a very clear conversation. Really hammer home. Please don't touch my stuff. Like, especially things like this without asking, come to me. And if he still keeps doing this, then you have more of an answer that he doesn't care about your boundaries.

[Gemma]

Yeah. I feel like if this is. Sounds like it's not the first time, but I think this is, like, a really important moment of change for your relationship where you can say both of you have been able to see the emotional impact of it.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Gemma]

The fact that neither of you are talking about it. Not the right way to go. I really think you've got to kind of just be the. I know it sucks. Be the big person and say, hey, we both saw this, we both acknowledge this. I don't want our relationship to be this. So I'm giving you the opportunity to change, and I'm giving myself the opportunity to express and give you, like, honestly, boundaries are a sign of respect for the other person. They're a sign of love. Yeah.

[Morgan]

I'd rather know what I can and can't do then try to be fucking psychic and stick my foot in it.

[Gemma]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

Give me a boundary. I love a good boundary. As long as you're, like, clear and can articulate it well to me, I love it. Like, I don't want to play mind games. I would rather just have good communication. Yeah. That's all it is. I feel like a boundary. And people, like, get scared when you're like, I'm going to set a boundary. It's like, no, it's just me, like, basically communicating my feelings. Yeah, that's it.

[Gemma]

It's saying, I want to. I want this to work, and I want you to be able to love me and I want to be able to love you.

[Morgan]

Are we scared of a boundary?

[Gemma]

No, I love a boundary, but I equally like repair as well. And, like, I've read this really interesting thing that's like, Western psychology focuses too much on boundaries and less on sometimes allowing. Obviously, like, there's a difference between. There's. There's different levels of boundaries. And sometimes, like, I don't know, I'm just like, sometimes you do need to forgive for small things like this.

[Morgan]

I love that. And I think it's something that's really interesting just from articles I've read about how, like, therapy is kind of shifting and, like, how our generation, which is like, basically the first generation to really get therapy, is kind of taking it. And there was an interesting article and I'll have to find it, but it was like, are we taking boundaries too far? Are we not giving people chances of repair? And, you know, like, hey, you burned me once. Let's. Let's address it, let's work on it. Versus, like, being quick to cut people off. And yeah, I think it's a really interesting concept.

[Gemma]

It really is.

[Morgan]

I'm like, I'm trying to think if I have a story now that will work off of that. But moving along to the next one, we'll see if there's any repair. Here it is. Coming from a I t h 10 days old titled am I the asshole for kicking my sister out of my baby shower because she called me old and selfish. My sister, female, 31 and I, female, 34, married around the same time seven years ago. She decided to have kids right away. My husband, male, 35, and I decided to buy a house first, do a little traveling and have enough savings before having kids. My sister now has four kids. I'm currently pregnant with our baby and I've been dealing with hyperemesis gravidarum. HG and it's been brutal. Luckily, my mother in law and my husband have been amazing to me and my boss allowed me to work from home until I give birth. My mom can't help me much because she helps out my sister's four kids a lot. Yesterday was my baby shower that my sister in law threw for me. People kept asking about how I was doing and I was talking about how HG is horrible. My sister decided to interrupt me and said, quote, honestly, this is what happens when you get pregnant, when you are old. I have had four pregnancies and never had these issues. I guess you should have thought about this before all of those trips and the we are not ready yet bullshit. Some of us made sacrifices in our 20s. I got furious. This wasn't the first time she's commented about my life. So I told her to get the fuck out. She grabbed my nieces and left. My mom said I was being hormonal and I should have just ignored her. My mom thinks my sister said that because she became a mom earlier than me and never enjoyed her life or even any alone time with her husband. My husband thinks I had every right to be upset because she was saying I deserve hg. Do I owe my sister an apology for kicking her out?

[Gemma]

No.

[Morgan]

Hell no.

[Gemma]

100% hell no. No. That is when we talk about repair. Like, that was intentionally meant to hurt you, to say that to you, to judge your choices. You are experiencing a health problem and she's saying, like, it's because you are selfish. Like the human body doesn't understand selfishness. Like it's not going to give you like more complications because like, what, you're a bad person. Like, I just think that is so entitled and rude. And projecting of her own insecurities.

[Morgan]

The projection is strong in this one.

[Gemma]

I literally cannot believe that.

[Morgan]

I'm like, okay, what's the math here? Sister's 31, got married seven years ago.

[Gemma]

Yeah. So she had. She was, like, 20, what, 24.

[Morgan]

And like, that. This is just screaming jealousy. And like, maybe, you know, maybe their first was a surprise baby. And maybe they. You know, maybe they did want to try. But, like, those are still choices you made for your life. And, hey, even if you had one, you still chose to have three more after. Like, you can travel with one baby, and it's hard to travel with four.

[Gemma]

Kids under the age of eight.

[Morgan]

Under the age of, like, I don't know. Yes. Seven.

[Gemma]

Yeah. Like, four under the age of seven. Like, I get she might be tired. I get she might be.

[Morgan]

That's a.

[Gemma]

Have resentment.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Gemma]

But I'm sorry, you can't resent someone else because they didn't make the choices that you made. You can't be like, how dare you have a better life than me? And I do really think she's, like, looking at this and being like, well, that's what you get. And maybe trying to justify that she made the right choice. Maybe that's what it is. Like, psychologically, she's like, well, this didn't happen to me, so that's proof that I did the right thing.

[Morgan]

I wonder if that's what it is. But I know people. I'm like, I know there's obviously, you know, risk increases with age. Like pregnancy risks and health risk and complications. That increases with age. Even males age. Like, I just saw a study that, like, the older a male gets, obviously we've talked about, like, sperm declining as males age, but the chances of, like, adhd, autism, like, that is actually, like, coming from, like, male semen. In this new study, they found that the older males get the higher chances. And I'm like, yeah, like, we. That's a risk all around. But, like, that's still these people's choice to make. And, like, I just. I just, like. Mike, want to mic drop what you said, where it's like, you can't resent people for choices they made or whatever you said. I'm like, we gotta roll the tape. Because it was so you can't resent.

[Gemma]

People for, like, a life that they made that you want. Like, you know, I mean, so good. Can't resent someone else for your life.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Gemma]

But I also just think it's like, okay, we're talking about autism and adhd. Like, that's not the end of the world.

[Morgan]

No. I have ADHD and I'm just fine.

[Gemma]

And autism, it's like, you're going to learn so much more from your child than your child could probably ever learn from you when they had a different life experience.

[Morgan]

No.

[Gemma]

And they're seeing the world differently.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Gemma]

I'm like, also, I'm sorry, but pregnancy is such an emotional time, and obviously we, like, anyone who's pregnant wants to have a really safe and healthy birth, and you would want your family members to want that for you as well. So. Yeah, I'm sure she is already struggling so much with the emotional implications. I'm sure she's probably already thought that in her head and it's a ridiculous thought. But the fact that then someone that she loves and who loves her is repeating it to her is so harmful and unnecessary.

[Morgan]

Like, it's insane. It's insane. And I hate how, like, her just being like, get out. Like, you called me old. You called me selfish. You basically said, I deserve to have this horrible health condition I'm experiencing. Get out. I hate how everyone is, like, making excuses for her then, like, or like, even the mom putting the blame on our writer. Oh, you're hormonal.

[Gemma]

Like, so how are you meant to react to that?

[Morgan]

What am I supposed to jump up and down and say, God damn it, you're right.

[Gemma]

Like, be like, oh, you're so funny, gal. Like, that's like, thanks. That's how we joke. Like, no, that's rude. It's rude and it's mean and it was intended to hurt you. And we. In comparison to the previous one, it's like, I think the big difference seems to be an intention to cross a boundary. I also just feel like if my, like, me and my sister fight, right? And we say terrible things to each other, but nothing like that. That's something else.

[Morgan]

This is crazy. I think it is truly jealousy projection. And I just. I can't imagine. Like, I just would never ever say that to someone even if I was jealous and struggling with feelings. Like, your mom is already helping you with your four kids. Ask her if you can take a vacation, go travel, even if it's a weekend road trip. Like, you can still experience life. Like, having kids isn't like this. Oh, you gotta stay home. You can't do shit anymore. Like, no, you can still experience life. You just now get to enjoy it with four other little people you created. Yeah, come on.

[Gemma]

It really is a mindset. What's the comment say? I really want to know because if someone disagrees, I'm getting really upset.

[Morgan]

You're going to fight them? Top comment. Nope, not the asshole. Sis is clearly just jealous and can't handle it. Glad you have great in laws to support you while you deal with a garbage sister and a mom that can't also.

[Gemma]

Let's just give a shout out to her husband now. Yeah, I love it when my boyfriend is like, yeah, I'm totally on your side. You know, no doubts, no nothing. Like, I'm on your side in the moment at least.

[Morgan]

Yeah, always on my side in the moment. Even if I'm wrong. And then when we go home and we're in private and we decompress, he'll be like, you were a little goofy.

[Gemma]

That's exactly how it should be.

[Morgan]

You gotta have someone that like, takes your side. I again, I just saw something, didn't you? Did you talk about it how it's like really important for like couples to always, like, take sides in public or something?

[Gemma]

I did. I was talking about on another, a recent episode about emotional compatibility where I was like, you can disagree in private, but it's important to agree in public. Specifically because I think and I don't not saying like, you like, imagine if, you know, a couple came on, on this show.

[Morgan]

Right.

[Gemma]

They could disagree with that. But when it's things that are significant and like, you really need to take someone's side, you always take your spouse's side.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Gemma]

Even if they're wrong. I 100% believe it. In sickness and in health, in wrongness and in right, you've always got to take their side.

[Morgan]

Happy wife, happy life. You know, whatever gender neutral saying. Is there a gender neutral saying?

[Gemma]

Happy spouse, happy house.

[Morgan]

There we go.

[Gemma]

I love that. I just learned that the other day and I really like it.

[Morgan]

Happy spouse, happy house. I. I love that. That's my new one. Okay. Yeah, it's recommended. It's so good. So good. Yeah, and I completely agree. I mean, the comments do go on to say, yeah, I can't imagine being a mom with a daughter having significant health issues during her pregnancy and not jumping in to support her. Both mom and sister suck. She's enabling your sister. She's probably always been entitled to.

[Gemma]

She is enabling your sister as well, for sure. And I think favoritism as well.

[Morgan]

Oh, sister's definitely the younger little golden child. And that's the thing. It's like you have two daughters. Just because one chose to have four kids doesn't mean you don't help the other because you're like that other daughter, again, chose to have four kids. You shouldn't have four kids if you can't handle four kids. And like, you should be able to help both daughters. You know what I mean?

[Gemma]

100 and the baby isn't even born yet. You just have to emotionally support her. It's not like she's passing you the baby and saying, I don't know, whatever it is, like she's just saying, stand up for me. That's not that difficult.

[Morgan]

No. Or at least don't make me fucking feel bad when I stand up for myself.

[Gemma]

Yeah. Oh, my God. At least don't take sides as a parent in a significant argument at your baby shower where you should be the center of attention and you have health problems that you probably. It's costing you a lot emotionally, mentally, socially, financially, physically.

[Morgan]

I'm so mad when you put it that way.

[Gemma]

In my family.

[Morgan]

When you put it that way. There are some comments from OP Just providing more insight. Apparently the sister constantly says she made a sacrifice so that they could be done having babies by the time she was 30.

[Gemma]

Congratulations. That's great. You made a sacrifice. That doesn't mean that everyone else needs to, like, do the exact same thing and pat you on the back.

[Morgan]

Yeah. And OP Also adds she is fully convinced this is an age related problem.

[Gemma]

No, it's like, no, that's not how that works. Like, it's not how that works. You can be 21 and get pregnant and have that exact same issue. You could genuinely, like, this is not. Again, you don't just get bad. Like, I don't know. I just don't think this person has read up on their healthcare.

[Morgan]

No. And I'm like, I'm gonna bring in some facts. Okay. Anyone can get hyperemesis gravidarum. However you say it, it affects up to 10% of pregnant women. I'm scared it's gonna be me. I'm already nauseous every day. Risk factors, having it in a previous pregnancy, being pregnant with twins or more, Having a family history, being prone to motion sickness or migraines, having gestational trophoblastic disease, having untreated asthma, having a high saturated fat diet, being exposed to smoking. That is a big list of risk factors. And granted, this is one site, but I didn't hear age.

[Gemma]

Oh, I didn't hear it either.

[Morgan]

I didn't hear age.

[Gemma]

I did not. I did not.

[Morgan]

I'm like. And I'm sure you know, again, being older when you're pregnant, like, it does incur other risk, but giselle Bunchen.

[Gemma]

She's like, she just had a baby like last week.

[Morgan]

Isn't she like 48?

[Gemma]

Yeah. Like, my mom had my sister when she was 47.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Gemma]

Like, and she's healthy and she's great. I'm sorry, this Woman Is what, 34? Yeah, I get it's.

[Morgan]

She's fine.

[Gemma]

It's not even a geriatric pregnancy yet. 35 and over is geriatric pregnancy.

[Morgan]

Oh, I feel so much better. Okay. Yay.

[Gemma]

Yeah, but even then, like, that's a terrible term.

[Morgan]

Oh, my God. I know. You hear geriatric, you're just like.

[Gemma]

No, it's just like it's from ages ago. You know what I mean? I know it shouldn't be called that, but.

[Morgan]

But I'm glad she has a supportive in law side and husband and little one will get here and hopefully she'll, she'll feel a lot better.

[Gemma]

And she has great in laws. I'm so happy for her with that.

[Morgan]

I know that's. It's good to have good in laws. Okay, moving along. You said something and it triggered my next story. I have you talked about fighting with your sister, so I think this one is going to be perfect for you.

[Gemma]

Okay, give it to me. I'm ready.

[Morgan]

One of this week's partners is skims. Skims has been my solution for just about every underwear or bra issue I've had in recent years. I need shapewear to make me feel good in a dress I have to wear to an event or party. I want a bra that's sexy but supportive and doesn't make me want to race home to take it off. And just my comfy everyday bras and loungewear. Skims for everything. I'm wearing my Skims fits. Everybody scoop bralette right now. And I mean, look at this. Look at the stretch I get out of this fabric. It is so comfy, lightweight, breathable, and this is a daily wear for me. I do have bigger boobs. I don't like not wearing bras, but I don't want underwear a lot of the times and I just want to be comfy. This was my solution. But no matter what you're looking for or what solution you need, Skims is going to have something for you. Shop Skims Best Intimates, including the Fits Everybody collection and [e-mail] and skim stores. After you place your order, be sure to let them know we sent you select podcast in the survey and be sure to select our show in the dropdown menu that follows. Thank you. Okay, story number three. This is coming from Aitah, 16 days old, titled Am I the Asshole? For leaving my sister's wedding after she made me the butt of a family joke. I, 25, female, have always been the responsible one in my family. I've helped raise my younger siblings, worked two jobs during college, and even financially supported my parents when they hit a rough patch. My older sister, Rachel, 30, female, has always been the family favorite. She's outgoing, funny, and everyone gravitates towards her. She got married last weekend and things hit the fan. For context, Rachel has always had this playful habit of roasting me at family gatherings. It started with harmless jabs like calling me Mom Junior because I'd remind everyone to take their meds or clean up after themselves. I laughed it off for years, but at some point it turned mean spirited. She started calling me Ms. Buzzkill, saying I don't know how to let loose because I preferred reading at home over clubbing. Flash forward to the wedding. Rachel asked me to give a toast as her maid of honor. I thought it was a huge honor, so I worked hard on a heartfelt speech about her finding love and the bond we share as sisters. But when it was Rachel's turn to speak, she gave this whole jokey speech about the woman I've always looked up to as a reminder of what not to be. She then went on to jokingly compare me to a 1950s sitcom mom who probably schedules fun time every Everyone laughed, but I felt humiliated in front of 200 guests. Even my parents were cracking up. I wanted to keep it together, but after the speeches ended, I I quietly excused myself to the bathroom to cry. When I got back, the jokes hadn't stopped. People at my table were still making comments about me being a buzzkill while pouring drinks. I couldn't take it anymore. I grabbed my purse and left. Since the wedding, Rachel has been blowing up my phone, calling me dramatic and saying I ruined her big day by storming off. My parents are siding with her, saying it was just a joke and I need to loosen up. I told them I'm done being the family punchline, and now everyone's calling me selfish for making the wedding about me. Am I the asshole?

[Gemma]

I don't think you're the asshole. Yeah, I don't think so. I'm like, you could have just stayed a little bit longer. But I'm like, actually, that's not really like, I don't know. But I don't actually think you should have. I think you should have left.

[Morgan]

I mean, this person gave a heartfelt yeah. Speech. Put herself on the line, and then to just be met with. You suck. You're boring. You're a buzz kill.

[Gemma]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

I looked up to you as what not to do.

[Gemma]

See, that was my. The thing is that I had the initial instinct, and I was like, okay, let me just try and think about what the them, like, let me just try and get into their shoes. And it's really hard.

[Morgan]

I mean, that is.

[Gemma]

It's really hard to see where they're coming from, like, the family, because I'm like, that's just objectively mean. She financially supported her parents.

[Morgan]

Oh.

[Gemma]

Like, she. She gave this heartfelt speech also. I'm sorry. I looked up to her as to what not to do. How patronizing is that? How rude is that? Isn't she younger? She's 25, right? She's five years younger.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Gemma]

That's so rude. Why isn't it your wedding? Why aren't you talking about your husband?

[Morgan]

Why are you taking one of the biggest days, one of the happiest days, to patronize, belittle, and disrespect your sister?

[Gemma]

Yeah. It doesn't seem very event appropriate.

[Morgan]

That actually is very confusing because I've never, ever, ever heard a bride and groom give a speech except to be like, thank you, we love you all. Like, thank you so much for supporting us. Like, I've never heard a speech, like, dedicated to the maid of honor. It's like, the maid of honor gives a speech dedicated to the couple or. Or, you know, friend, sister, whatever.

[Gemma]

Like, maybe she was drunk. Like, but she obviously went out of her way to make this very direct speech about this person who is her maid of honor, who has probably sacrificed a lot, who has put time into this beautiful speech. Also, like, just because someone's personality is different to yours doesn't mean it's wrong. You know what I mean? It's literally the same as what we were talking about before, where it's like, you can't, like, just let people live their life. She's introverted. That's all right. We need people like that. Like, she is responsible. That's amazing. She chooses to have fun in a different way. That's great. Like, that's. It's not your life. Who cares? Like a buzz kill. That's so mean.

[Morgan]

That's insane. I just, like, if we didn't. If we didn't have multiple different kinds of people and diversity and all these things, like, the world would not go around if everyone was fun and carefree and didn't care.

[Gemma]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

Nothing Would get done. Like, we need these people. And how nice are these people? Hey, you know, you've had a lot of wine before you go to bed. Just have a little water. Yeah, I need those people in my life.

[Gemma]

Like, don't forget to take your meds. That's kind, thanks.

[Morgan]

Like, I'd rather not forget my meds and be messed up tomorrow. Like, what? And I think it's sad because, like, by the sounds of this, too, she did try to come back and give it another shot.

[Gemma]

She did.

[Morgan]

She kept it together during the speeches. She went to the bathroom to privately cry to not make it about her, and then came back and they were still joking about her. How long was she in the bathroom? Couple minutes, at least. And you're still joking about her, Calling her a buzzkill? As you pour your next drink, read.

[Gemma]

The room as well. Like, she's obviously upset. Why would you deliberately want to make someone feel worse?

[Morgan]

You can tell when someone's been crying. Come on.

[Gemma]

Yeah, I know. I feel really bad for her. I feel really, really terrible for her also. Just, like, I don't know. I fight with my sister, but I would never say those kinds of things about her in a room full of other people. I know that's your family member.

[Morgan]

Like, it's hard. Like, I. I've been around people who have relationships like this with their sibling to the point where their sibling has been like, I genuinely don't know if my sister likes me. Like, genuinely. And it's not fun for anyone else to be around either. Like, you kind of start to feel. You're like, is she kidding? Is she serious? Like, ooh, awkward. Ooh, that one was a little mean.

[Gemma]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

And it's just like, you just. I don't know. It's like, where does it come from? Is it jealousy? Like, again, it is this, Like, a root jealousy? We need that. We need that big feeling wheel.

[Gemma]

I feel like it's like she's using her as humor to make herself seem funnier. I will also pull out one more thing. It's the text messages after. Now, this is a big pet peeve of mine. I will never call someone dramatic for feeling a feeling that is theirs. I will like, if it's a situation like this, I will never be like, you're being so dramatic.

[Morgan]

Yeah, this isn't dramatic to me. I would. Yeah.

[Gemma]

I'm like, her sister being like, you're so dramatic. I'm like that. If I wouldn't seriously say that to someone as a way to shut down their emotional response.

[Morgan]

Also, what did she do that was so dramatic? She quietly left.

[Gemma]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

No one probably noticed, to be honest.

[Gemma]

Blowing up her phone, being like, forgive me, forget like, I don't know, not even. She's not even asking her to forgive her. She's just being like, I, I'm angry. Let me be angry at you.

[Morgan]

And then I call her selfish.

[Gemma]

I again. There's all these people who are like, come into my family. Like this person, I'm like, they don't deserve you. Come and be loved. We will, will make sure that we take our men.

[Morgan]

I'll adopt you.

[Gemma]

Yeah, we'll appreciate that.

[Morgan]

Come on, come join us, please.

[Gemma]

We'll get the paperwork signed right now.

[Morgan]

And just the whole, the fact the whole family. Multiple people in the family as well.

[Gemma]

Her parents, who she, who she supported.

[Morgan]

Absolutely not. Not the. No, no, no, no, no. The top comment on this one. Not the. When someone disrespects you as a person, you remove yourself from their presence. You know, this wasn't just a joking little fun poke. This was downright making you the butt of an ongoing joke. The fact that she would make her speech about you instead of the love of her life in front of her and her new husband is despicable. She can find someone else to humiliate for her jollies from here on out.

[Gemma]

Amen. Preach that comment.

[Morgan]

11K up votes. Next comment down. I have to wonder what the husband's family thought about it. Instead of talking about her love for their son and her happiness to be spending her life with him, she decided to mock her sister for her hard work and taking care of everyone. I would be so disgusted if I heard someone mocking the responsible one.

[Gemma]

Can you imagine if, like, do you have a, you have a brother, right? No. You have all sisters?

[Morgan]

I have two brothers and a sister.

[Gemma]

Two brothers and a sister. That's where I got confused. Can you imagine? What would your response be? Are they both married?

[Morgan]

My older one is, okay, so your.

[Gemma]

Young brother gets married and his now wife spends sounds like a good 10 minutes making fun of her sister. So also, if, you know, I'm thinking about Tom, my partner, shout out Tom. Probably listening to this, hey, Tom. Because he loves to rotates. But like I just imagine marrying him and having him do that, which he would never do. No, I'm like, oh, I really would be like, huh? I'm sure he like already like knows that about her. Hopefully.

[Morgan]

I would hate it, like watching my brother marry someone who is just like cruel because I, I, I look at that. I'm like, she's cruel. She's not nice. Like, is this going to be your kid's biggest bully? Their mom? Like, that's how I would look at it. I just think some people excuse it. I just, I. I feel like it goes over their head or they do think it's a joke, or maybe that's their sense of humor, too. But I think when you have someone who's now said, like, I don't appreciate this, I want to be treated better. You gotta knock it off. Yeah, Gotta knock it off.

[Gemma]

Oh, loses a relationship. And you know what will happen is I see this a lot where then people are like, my sister's just crazy. She just randomly cut me off. Like, she's just a psycho. And like, her. She just doesn't have any emotional maturity. And then like, her sister's being like on Reddit, being like, example one, example two, example three. And then there's like, thousands of people who are like, anonymously. Anonymously being like, yes, like, we're on your side. We're on your side. And I bet, like, the sister I would be. I wish that there was one from the sister being like, am I the asshole? Like, my sister stormed out of my wedding, and I'm like, so upset. She's always like, I don't know. I wonder what she would say. Like, she's always maybe looked down on me, like I'm. Maybe that's what she's thinking she's doing. I don't know.

[Morgan]

It's like, confused.

[Gemma]

I'm confused, but I know I'm on her side. Yeah, I know. I'm on, like, the bride made of. On her side. Not the bride. Not the bride.

[Morgan]

That's what I was going to say, too. Why did she make this person her maid of honor? You don't like this person? You do not like your sister. Why did you make her your maid of honor?

[Gemma]

Because she's organized. Because, you know, she was gonna get stuff.

[Morgan]

She wanted the free labor, and now.

[Gemma]

She'S making fun of her for it. We. We need this family in here right now.

[Morgan]

You don't bite the hand that feeds you.

[Gemma]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

And then, like, just like, the fact that she's helped her parents at 25 to, like, float your parents when they're in a rough patch. These parents need to get their together and never say another thing to her.

[Gemma]

She sounds so unappreciated.

[Morgan]

Oh, my God, the fact the parents even are doubling down and being like, you're selfish. She helped you. She helped you. Where was the other daughter? That's Older. I'm over it. I hate them. I'm just so sad for this person. So am I. I'm like, I'm just sad.

[Gemma]

I'm like, I really hope that you see. I don't know why. I'm like, I hope you see this, and I hope you know that, like, it's okay to go. No contact. And, like, I love how I was like, don't just cut people out of your life.

[Morgan]

I know this one doesn't seem like that repair. Y.

[Gemma]

No, it doesn't seem that repair. We're seeing a lot of distinction here between things that are serious, things that are cruel, things that are accidental.

[Morgan]

Is this a normal thing for. Like, I feel like sisters fight more than brothers, and I have, like, sister brother dynamic, and we have a big age gap, so we fought a lot. But it seems like sisters that are close in age fight more than, like, other dynamics. Like, and I don't know, like, do you grow out of that? Because I know it's talked about a lot. Like, moms and daughters, you fight a lot, and then you get to a certain point in your 20s, and you're like, oh, I like my mom.

[Gemma]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

So I'm like, is there anything? Like, why? Like, we've seen now two sister dynamics that are just, like, not healthy. Like, is there anything.

[Gemma]

See, I think that there is already, like, thinking of the psychology, like, a natural competition between women, even siblings, especially within a family. So both of these have been. When there's lots of family around, sort.

[Morgan]

Of making a show of it.

[Gemma]

Yeah. So perhaps, like, separate to their family, like, if they were to hang out one on one, not. Not at Christmas, not a. Not at a wedding, not at a baby shower would be better. But in that dynamic, it probably becomes incredibly heightened. Parents are there. You know, there's a lot of comparison going on because other family is there. I also just think that, yes, it is natural to have disagreements with people that you're close to because you're around them the most. You're emotionally intertwined in their life. The thing about siblings, though, is you're kind of forced to be friends with this person, and sometimes you don't like them. Listen, I like my siblings. Like, I'm very blessed where I like them and I love them, so it's great. But there have been times where I've been like, God, like, I just.

[Morgan]

Yep.

[Gemma]

I'm like, you're such a dick. It's so freaking annoying. And you're like, I wouldn't do it that way. But I do think that There is a thing to be said about sisters as well because there is such an emotional intimacy and vulnerability there. They can also really just like cut where it hurts. Maybe because they're a lot more empathetic. Right. So with empathy comes acknowledgment of someone else's insecurity. So it's like they can just go like right there. It's like pressure points, like acupuncture, but for insecurity and pain. And you can't use that. It's a special skill. You can't use that skill in mean ways.

[Morgan]

No, that's crazy.

[Gemma]

I really think that's crazy.

[Morgan]

That's so crazy. Is there anything like, and I think this comes up a lot in our Reddit stories, but it always seems like people try to pick on others in front of groups and like, is there anything behind that? Cause I'm like, and like pranks, like pranking people. Like, I hate a prank. I'm just like, is there like something psychologically where it makes them feel better to bring other people lower in front of others? Like, are they trying to gain the like, approval. Approval of the group and they think that belittling someone else is going to do it? Like, like what?

[Gemma]

Oh yeah, I've got like two studies for you and there's two concepts. First is like in group, out group relations.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Gemma]

Everyone wants to be part of the in group. Right. And by being part of the in group, you show that you are more aligned with other members of the in group. Now if there's someone in that in group who is perhaps you're jealous of or who perhaps you feel is taking up too much space, the easiest way to put them in the out group is to say, look at this person. They're not like us. Look at this person. They don't have our qualities, they don't have our values. So you chip away at their character. Look at the sibling. She's not fun like us. She's responsible. She. So I want to take her out of the spotlight. I want to remove her from the group, like in group out group dynamics. The other thing is a study that I read around bullying behavior just recently. Actually this study is specifically around cyberbullying. But they have done follow ups on in person bullying and like interpersonal relationships of familial relationships or friendships bullying within those groups, people with a lower sense of self esteem and higher rates of what we call Machiavellianism.

[Morgan]

Can you break that down? I'm like, I've, I've heard the term manipulation.

[Gemma]

Oh, People who are manipulative, some would even suggest have higher. Higher, like, not traits, but higher levels of trait based narcissism, trait based psychopathy. More likely to bully others and they get a self esteem kick out of it.

[Morgan]

I mean, that makes. And cyberbullying is the easiest way to do it.

[Gemma]

You're anonymous, but also within family, you know that they have to. You think that they'll have to forgive you. So it does. It does. So it happens a lot. I also think that with this as well, it's like, okay, so if you can't be where they are, the next best place is to pull them down to where you are because at least it's not going to create insecurity anymore. So I see this a lot with like, it's. I see this. Yeah. But it's like why people cyber bully, like celebrities and like influencers and, you know, successful women and they're like, oh, but she's ugly. Why is women too like, oh, patriarchy. It's because it's like, I don't know why. And you know what it is? It's always been being like, she's fat. And I'm like, at least be smart. Like, if you're gonna criticize someone, like, you know what I mean? I'm like, okay, cool. Because men have suddenly realized that that's the worst thing to say to a woman. Like, the worst thing to say to a man is like, he's balding.

[Morgan]

Like, yeah.

[Gemma]

That he's lonely or that he's. I don't know, like, I don't know what it is for a man. Yeah, they don't have as much look based, you know what I mean? Like, there's not as much patriarchal focus on image. So it's easier to cyber bully women.

[Morgan]

It's so interesting to me. And it, I mean, the study, study says what the study says and yeah, I can't. I. Bullying is something I will never, never understand. As someone that was like severely bullied in high school to the point I was put in a little facility. I just like cannot imagine ever designating time in my life to bullying others. I.

[Gemma]

But I can't really understand it either. I'm like, surely you have a bit of self awareness to realize that this like validation and reinforcement that you're getting is quite unsustainable and quite unhealthy.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Gemma]

You know what I mean? It's like just feeding yourself sugar. Like you're not actually gaining real confidence from building.

[Morgan]

I think it is. It's another sense of Addiction. I really do think it's another sense of addiction because it's like, as you said, like, you get a bump on that, like that insecurity that you have. And so you get that bump and it's like every time you do it, you get that bump. And it's just like someone needs to.

[Gemma]

Do a study on this actually, like dopamine levels and bullying and whether bringing someone down and elicits more joy in certain people and more discomfort. Because I'm sure that if you and I did it or like someone who's experienced bullying in the past, like, is never going to do it again.

[Morgan]

No, it would, it would, it would physically make me ill to ever, like. Yeah, I just, I can't. I can't even wrap my head around it.

[Gemma]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

Crazy. There's no comments from OP on this. 1 account has been suspended. But so, so, so many comments of support. And just like, please cut her off. Like, you don't deserve this. Don't help your family anymore if they're going to act like this. So I'm hoping OP saw all of these comments. I hope OP takes it a step further and sends this post to her family.

[Gemma]

Oh, yeah, I would love to see that.

[Morgan]

And there's been posts like that where they've sent it to their family and everyone is like, damn, I do suck. Yeah, so this could be one of them that gets people shaped up real quick.

[Gemma]

Probably not. That sister, she sounds God awful.

[Morgan]

Sister sounds like a pill.

[Gemma]

Yeah, she does. Oh, I want to bring that back to saying someone sounds like a pill.

[Morgan]

Sounds like a pill.

[Gemma]

I like that a lot.

[Morgan]

But moving along, another one of this week's partners is Talk Space. I don't know what's in retrograde, but I have been having a really hard time with my mental health lately. We're just not equipped to deal with everything on our own. So if you have been thinking about trying therapy or getting back into it, try Talkspace. Talkspace is all about providing convenient and affordable mental health care. It's in network with most insurance providers. Most insured members actually have a zero dollar copay. Zero dollars. And I know therapy can be fit in your schedule and drive to an appointment and do this and do that. Talkspace is completely online. I've loved online therapy in the past because I could take my appointments from my car, from a park, from the comfort of my bed, and they even have couples therapy. If that's something you need as a listener of this podcast, you'll get $80 off your first month with Talkspace when you go to talkspace.com THT and enter promo code SPACE80 to match with a licensed therapist. Today, go to talkspace.com THD and enter promo code SPACE80 to get $80 off your first month and show your support for the show. That's talkspace.com THT promo code space80. Okay, this next one for us, it is coming from AIT four hours old. My sidekick Carrie over there found it. I'm going into this completely blind with you. I have no idea. I haven't even read the title. I'm taking on Carrie for her word today, which is stressing me out, but I'm sure it's good. I'm sure it's good. Okay, this is titled Am I the Asshole? My wife became emotionally abusive since giving birth. She topped it off by cheating. Now she is begging me to reconsider.

[Gemma]

That's it?

[Morgan]

Just triple way? No, no, no. We have more.

[Gemma]

I was like, oh, my God.

[Morgan]

I, 28, male, have been married to my wife, 27, female, for two years. Together for four, 14 months ago, we had our first baby. She hasn't gone back to work, and I've been the sole breadwinner, her choice. And since she gave birth, my wife has become a nightmare to deal with. She became irritable, angry at me for the smallest reasons, complains about everything, and everything is somehow my fault. All she does is hold the baby all day, even if he didn't need to be held, and scroll through her phone. Everything else is my responsibility. We haven't had sex for over a year and a half, and whenever I try to address it, she lashes out at me. Because even though I'm the only one who works and I do all of the housework, yet I'm insensitive and don't care about her. I haven't brought up sex until three months, postpartum even. I was basically her emotional punching bag. I tried to get her therapy, I tried to address her behavior, but all I get is more verbal abuse. I hated our marriage. I wanted to end it, but I was so scared at the idea of co parenting. I was scared of the social backlash of ending a marriage with a child involved. And also a small part of me was hoping that somehow things would get well and back together. Well, last month, she made it a lot easier to end it. She told me she was going to a bar with her friends and she came back home at 4am drunk. As soon as she slept, I snooped through her phone and found texts between her and a random guy. Implying that she went to a hotel room with him. I was almost relieved when I saw them. I can finally walk away from this miserable marriage without any guilt or regret. The first thing I did was take a DNA test for the baby. He is mine. As soon as the results came back, I informed my wife that I'm aware of her infidelity and our marriage is over. She broke down crying. She begged me for my forgiveness. She tried to use every excuse in the book. Postpartum depression, past trauma, alcohol. She promised to make it up to me. She said she would do whatever I want. Said that she doesn't want our family to break. But I wasn't having any of it. I've already hated this marriage and the infidelity was just the nail in the coffin. We still live together and she has been begging me to reconsider, promising me everything under the sun. But I have no intention of reconsidering. And I told her she is not allowed to speak to me anymore. Am I the asshole?

[Gemma]

No, I don't think you are. And I, and I say that with like a lot of compassion for postpartum depression, postpartum personality changes, even postpartum psychosis.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Gemma]

But there seems to be an element of this that is just beyond that, that seems quite intentional.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Gemma]

Also, like you, he just sounded so unhappy. He just sounded so unhappy. And then to cheat on him as well, when he's just been doing so much, it's hard. Like, I appreciate having a new baby is just difficult. Puts your body through so much. But this is your partner. You're in this together. And if you can't see that, let alone even respect them, why do you want a relationship with them? Is it like, why does she want to be back together with him? Doesn't sound like she was really enjoying the marriage either.

[Morgan]

No, she has to sound fulfilled at all either.

[Gemma]

No, really, she doesn't. Maybe she's just like, oh, no, now I don't have the stability. Or maybe it's like, oh, now I have to. I took you for granted. Now I have to come to terms with the fact that I'm going to lose out on like such an amazing thing. Doesn't mean that you should stay.

[Morgan]

This is so bonkers to me. I mean, they have a 14 month old baby now. I'm like trying to do the math. Got married two years ago. 14 month old baby.

[Gemma]

They had them. They're only been together for like two. Two years and eight months.

[Morgan]

Yeah. So I'm like, maybe marriage was because of the baby. Is Kind of the math. I'm like, that math would make sense, right? What's 14 months plus nine months, 25.

[Gemma]

Months, which is like.

[Morgan]

And two years is 24. So maybe found out two.

[Gemma]

Two years in a month.

[Morgan]

Found out she was pregnant, then got married. Or we're. I don't know. Math is a little interesting to me, but I'm like, there's such things as, like, persistent postpartum depression and that can linger well beyond, you know, normal postpartum depression. But the difference, like here for me is like, he's been trying to get her help. He's been trying to get her to go to therapy, trying to address her behavior, and all he's getting is more verbal abuse. Yeah, that's not what he deserves. No one deserves that. You're trying to help and all you get is more of the terrorization, the degrading, the. The abuse. Unacceptable. Like, he's got to get out. He's got to get out. I don't care if there's a baby involved. Never, like, ever in my head, a reason to stay. And like, you will be better, healthier, happier as co parents because this situation is brutal. And I think, like, looking at their ages and I think this happens a lot in your 20s. That sunken cost fallacy.

[Gemma]

Oh, man. Yeah.

[Morgan]

Like, you convince yourself to stay, you convince yourself it'll get better or. I've invested so much time, I don't want to start over.

[Gemma]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

We've got a kid together. I don't.

[Gemma]

Then it's 10 years later and you're miserable still. Also, like, if you. I think he's. He was saying something specifically around we have a child together. The social pressure of staying together.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Gemma]

Let me just say this. Let's focus on the kid for a second. It's not a healthy example for your child to grow up where two parents don't love each other. I understand people do stay together and people do fall out of love. But in this situation, you know, if you want to think about what's best for your child, maybe she does need to be alone and to take time away to like, deal with her own stuff. Like, maybe she would be better with someone else. Maybe. You definitely sound like you would. And then your child gets to see two examples of healthy love. And that's actually a really beautiful thing. I don't think that they would, you know, in 10 years, 12 years, 13 years, be resentful for you for doing that.

[Morgan]

No.

[Gemma]

Also, like, I get giving and giving and giving to a relationship, but it's. If at some stage, you have to take care of yourself. Otherwise the whole ship burns down.

[Morgan]

Oh, you can't light yourself on fire to keep other people warm. I'll say it again and again and again, and I think you're so right. Like, seeing two parents happy and in love and healthy. Like, there's so many studies on it that show, like, kids who witness abuse and it changes their brain and not for the better. So, you know, I feel like we all get a little bonked up, you know, in life as kids. Like, no matter how great our parents are or if they split and things like that, it's just like, we all go through stuff, but this is a worse situation than, I hope what comes out of a divorce. Like, he sounds like he's at least gonna be a good dad.

[Gemma]

Oh, he sounds like he's going to be amazing dad.

[Morgan]

He's really.

[Gemma]

He's already doing everything I know.

[Morgan]

He's keeping the boat afloat.

[Gemma]

She does sound like she's going to be a good mom. You know, she's holding the baby. She obviously cares about the baby. I just don't think she's a good wife. That's all right. Some people aren't made to do that, so.

[Morgan]

No, no. Top comment on this one. Postpartum is addressed by therapy, not with adultery.

[Gemma]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

Damn.

[Gemma]

Oh, my God. That's just mic drop right there.

[Morgan]

They go on to say, I'd honestly start separation proceedings. Just make sure you kept screenshots of her tax.

[Gemma]

Can you use screenshots in court in cases these days?

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Gemma]

Okay.

[Morgan]

Here in the States, you can at least.

[Gemma]

Yeah. I don't know about. If it's in Australia, I'm like, I can't remember. But, yeah, please do that.

[Morgan]

Yeah, it's admissible.

[Gemma]

Wow. And also, like, that's. Wow. Postpartum is addressed by therapy, not by adultery.

[Morgan]

Well, and that's another interesting thing. I'm like, maybe there's some in my head. I'm like, just trying to, like, weave through what she could be thinking. But I'm like, mayor maybe. Like, she had a traumatic birth and resents him because he got her pregnant and all this stuff. So it's like she wants affection but not from him because he gave her the ick in a sense, like, you know what I mean? I'm like, I don't know what it is, but either way, it's like, you're married. Those are vows you agreed to. Like, if you're not happy and you don't want affection from him, why aren't you Talking about and addressing it and either going to therapy and working through it or seeking a divorce before cheating.

[Gemma]

Like, there's a psychological roadblock going on here.

[Morgan]

It's a lot. Yeah.

[Gemma]

Like, something for her. For her. And I'm like, I don't think you want to be married anymore. Like, no. You went out and slept with someone else. I don't know. Yeah. I just don't think I could stay with someone if they did that to me.

[Morgan]

No.

[Gemma]

Especially when we have a child together. No baby. Nonetheless.

[Morgan]

Taking my kid and I'm running.

[Gemma]

Yeah. Bye.

[Morgan]

Bye. There's only one comment from OP saying I already have the screenshots and then goes on to say, cheating after denying me sex for over a year and a half and lashing out at me for even trying to address it is straight up vile. She couldn't care less about me when she did it. There's no coming back, no matter what she does.

[Gemma]

Amen. I will say it's okay to deny sex. Like, she's allowed to not want to have sex. Yeah. But there has to be a conversation around how your relationship's going to. Going to evolve. And it sounds like she does want to have sex, just not with you, which is interesting. Yeah, it's interesting. It's definitely, like, I don't think there's attraction there anymore. Maybe she's just like, I just see you in a different light now. I don't know. I just feel like when, like, Tom becomes a dad, I'm just gonna be like, I want to jump your bones. Because I'm like, that's sexy. Like, now you. So you're like, the father to my children.

[Morgan]

It's so hot. I love it when, like, my fiance cries. I'm like, I just. I feel. I feel so bad. I just want to hug him, but I'm, like, hot.

[Gemma]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

Like seeing him hold a baby.

[Gemma]

Take your clothes off now. He's like, yeah.

[Morgan]

So I don't know. Again, it kind of brings me back to, like, maybe they got married for the wrong reasons and we're trying to force it.

[Gemma]

Can I also say something controversial?

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Gemma]

Maybe your listeners will not like this. Too hot takes.

[Morgan]

Name of the game, baby. Right here.

[Gemma]

I'm going to play the game.

[Morgan]

Let's go.

[Gemma]

I do think that you should be dating for at least three to four years before you get engaged.

[Morgan]

Ooh.

[Gemma]

And I. I do know people who have gotten married sooner. My preference is, like, you. I want to see you. You have to see each other through different seasons to see if you'll Be able to work through them. Like, you have to have the big fight. You have to have maybe even long distance. You have to have a compromise in choices. I know some people don't agree with me, but personally, I'm like, there's a greater success rate.

[Morgan]

Yeah. Then I. I think there's a lot of, like, because we've talked about this on an episode, and people are like, I got married after two weeks, and we're together 14 years. And I'm like, that is unreal. But I think you're the exception.

[Gemma]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

Not the rule.

[Gemma]

It's like you're the. You think you're the rule because that's all you've ever known, but you're not. Like, you don't have a fair sample size. Like, you're not looking at everyone else who's gotten divorced every to look at the data. Like, I do seriously think that the longer you're together before you get married, the chances of survival, of lasting work. Also because it's like, you've had the opportunity to break up. You know what I mean? It's like, if you've been together for five years, you probably have had times where you've been like, is this right for me? And you've decided that it is.

[Morgan]

Whereas, like, that was something I wanted to ask you because I'm like, I don't remember if I saw a story or something, but I'm like, I think there was one where this guy, like, saw a text on his girlfriend's computer. We're just gonna get into it. We're gonna go right into this, and then I'm gonna ask my question.

[Gemma]

Okay. Yeah, tell me.

[Morgan]

Essentially, it's like, oh, my God. It just fell out of my head.

[Gemma]

No. Guy saw a text on the girlfriend's computer. Married. I need to be dating for three to four years.

[Morgan]

Oh. But essentially, it's like, is it normal to question, should you break up? And are you settling? And this next story will help us get into that.

[Gemma]

Let's do it.

[Morgan]

Okay. Another one of this week's partners is Bumble. Are you ready to date your way? Yeah. Doing what makes you comfortable. Not worrying if you're replying to their message too soon or being too excited or being too scared to show your funny side or maybe a hobby or niche you're really into, because it doesn't seem likely you're gonna find your person if you're not being you. And that's where Bumble comes in. Bumble wants everyone to date their way. They have so many different profile prompts that you can show off your personality, sense of humor, interest. You're really gonna get the most out of your dating journey and make it what you want it to be. You can even make sure you're aligning with matches on intentions what they're really looking for Whether they wanna just meet up and chat or they're looking for a long term relationship, there's so many different features to show more of you. I met Justin, my fiance, on a dating app six years ago now and I did it by putting myself out there, by being my most authentic self and it paid off. So no more wondering if that match likes Chapel Roan. Hopefully they're proudly displaying it on their profile. So come on, give it a shot and date your way on Bumble. This one is coming from Relationship Advice two months old titled I accidentally saw a text on my 28 male girlfriend, 29 female computer saying that she feels she's out of my league. I feel like I have to break up with her. Question mark. I've been with my girlfriend for around three years. Everything has been pretty good overall. This happened a few weeks ago so I've had time to think on it. My girlfriend had an opportunity to go on a free sunset cruise, fancy dinner, drinks, etc with some co workers, but had a presentation due that night which needed a bit of work so I said I'd do it so she could go damn that's nice.

[Gemma]

Sweet man.

[Morgan]

Turns out it needed a bit more work than I thought. I was on her MacBook and I went to send it to myself to work on the desktop windows so I can be more comfortable. So I opened messages. Can't find my name in the recent convos and just type it in the search bar. When you do that on a Mac it turns out it'll show you the contact if you search the name and also show the most recent conversations where the search term my name was mentioned. Right before I click my name I notice a message from her sister that says quote I like OP a lot but I feel like you are very much out of his league and he should try harder to be a better man for you. So I open it up. Maybe shitty I know. To which my girlfriend responded, I agree. I read their convo, nothing more. And she went on to say that she thinks I'm unambitious, eat like shit, will resent me for making less than her, and that she, quote, wouldn't want kids with me even if she did want kids. She said that I was the one thing keeping her happy though this was Said during a fight over her never being willing to visit me one hour away and leaving me to do all the traveling, but then saying she was going to fly six hours one way to visit her male friend for literally one day. She'd fly in at night, spend one day together, then fly back the following day. It turned into a fight because she was willing to fly 12 hours round trip and spend hundreds of dollars on a flight. And we both have no money because we're students, so it's a big deal, but yet wouldn't travel one hour away to visit me for an entire weekend. Just to clarify, she didn't end up going because I thought it was suspicious and we got in a fight and during and after the fight, the convo took place. I'd agree that she probably is out of my league and she will most definitely make more money than me, but we both will have a doctoral degree and I expect to make 120k through 130k and she'll probably make 250k through 300k. So there is an income disparity. But it's not like I'm not making good money regardless. I don't think I eat that bad. And I'm slim, so I don't think I'm completely out of touch there. But definitely not eating salmon and steak every night. There was no mistreatment on either end. I try to do nice things with and for her within the means of my $0 student salary. And her parents like me. I just think she doesn't like me. I almost feel numb for asking. But I'd be a fool if I didn't break up with her, right?

[Gemma]

Yeah. Oh, honey. Sweet boy.

[Morgan]

That sucks.

[Gemma]

Sweet boy. You sound amazing. He sounds great. He sounds kind. I'm sorry, but if you think that your partner eats like shit if he wouldn't have children, even if you wanted children already, can tell you're gonna resent them for making less money. Why are you with him like she. You're with him for your own benefit. I think it's honestly selfish to be like, he makes me happy, but I don't respect him at all. Find someone you do respect then.

[Morgan]

I'm literally at a loss for words. Yeah, because I'm trying to figure her out and I'm like, are you. You just don't want to be alone? That's it. That's it. The bottom line is you don't want.

[Gemma]

To be alone and you're willing to have the security of a relationship. Maybe because she's like, it's going to be so much effort dating. And here's this guy who, like, is good enough, but, you know, when it comes to it, I'll break up with him when it just gets. I think maybe she's waiting for him to fail, waiting for him to slip up, but also like, you're wasting both of your time.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Gemma]

There is a woman out there who is going to be like, this is the most amazing man on the planet.

[Morgan]

He offered. Let's. Let's wind this back to realize how he even found these messages, offered to do her work presentation for. For her so she could go on a sunset cruise.

[Gemma]

Yeah. Doesn't sound like a nasty man to me. It doesn't sound like someone I wouldn't be happy to be with. Like, what a kind gentleman.

[Morgan]

What?

[Gemma]

And you know how you asked me, you were like, is it okay to have doubts about a relationship?

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Gemma]

Yeah, it is. I think it is. That's not a doubt, though.

[Morgan]

These don't seem like doubts.

[Gemma]

That seems like you have a. A very, very set opinion on what you think this other person is and who you think they are to you.

[Morgan]

It's almost like she thinks, and she does by agreeing with her sister, by saying, like, oh, yeah, like, I am out of his league. Like, so you think you're greater than him? Like, he's less than you. He's under your level. He's less than. That's kind of what you're applying.

[Gemma]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

But then I know it's like I'm rewatching how I met your mother right now, and I don't. I don't know if you've seen it, but there's this episode where they talk about how there's always a settler. And in Marshall and Lily's relationship, Lily is settling and Marshall goes out of his way to prove, like, no, I can get girls. No. Like, you're not settling. No. Yeah, I'm not. No. And it's just like, is that the case? Like, is. Do. Do. Does everyone think that? Do a lot of people think that? Like, I don't think I'm.

[Gemma]

Do you think that?

[Morgan]

No, but I'm like, I don't think I'm settling, but I'm like, is it normal? Like, a lot of people talk about that and there's so many phrases like, oh, he really out kicked his coverage, or, yeah, she's out of his league, or, he's out of her league or damn.

[Gemma]

Like, like, how did you end up with her?

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Gemma]

How much is he making, like, that kind of deal?

[Morgan]

And I'm like, what? It's obviously a common thought for a lot of people because there's so many tropes about it, but why do you.

[Gemma]

Need to think about that if you love them? Why do you. Like, a league is for other people to apply to your relationship. Like, why do. Why would you ever look at your partner and be like, I'm better than you, and that makes me happy?

[Morgan]

Why are you with them? If you think. If you think you're downgrading, why are you with them?

[Gemma]

Like, I honestly think that my partner is better than me. I'm like, you're amazing. But we've had this conversation before. But he's like, yeah, but you're so much better than me in this regard. And I'm like, okay, so we both, like, actually admire each other.

[Morgan]

And that's my. I'm like, I'm better at Justin than, you know, I don't know, editing the podcast. And he's better at me than making music. Like, we both, like, everyone's gonna have their strengths and weaknesses, and that's why, like, you create this partnership. And it's like, I hate cooking. Justin loves cooking, so I'm gonna let him do that. Like, I love vacuuming. That man has not touched a vacuum since we've moved in together, because that's my job, and I love it. So I'm just like. I can't imagine thinking, like, I'm so much better than someone but still being with them.

[Gemma]

And then the lifestyle thing as well. It's not just that you think you're better is. Then you go on to say these other things about her. I'm sorry about him. That are A, quite insulting, and B, sound like you don't even respect his lifestyle, and it doesn't align with you. I like what you said about partnership. This doesn't sound like a partnership.

[Morgan]

No.

[Gemma]

Oh, I feel bad for him, and I really think he should break up with her.

[Morgan]

I know.

[Gemma]

Also, honey, you're gonna be a catch.

[Morgan]

Like, I.

[Gemma]

He's a catch.

[Morgan]

I mean, he sounds. He's. There's. This is a good one. Like, this is a good one. And, like, I don't know. I'm just like, there's so many good dudes out there, and it's like, don't get stuck with someone who doesn't deserve your kindness.

[Gemma]

And, yeah, like, she could find someone else.

[Morgan]

It's. She. Yeah, let her.

[Gemma]

Let her go.

[Morgan]

Put that fish back.

[Gemma]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

Catch and release. Throw her back.

[Gemma]

That's funny.

[Morgan]

Top comment, mate. Put aside what she Says for a second she's willing to go visit a male friend six hours away, but unwilling to visit you an hour away ever. That should have been the end right there.

[Gemma]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

And that's true. And that is a little suspicious. Like, I get why it caused a fight. I guess it's like, I don't know.

[Gemma]

I'm like, does she not have a car? Like, I kind of understand if they see each other every weekend. And, like, I have a really close male friend. And to be fair, like, I went and saw him in Paris and, like, it was great. I didn't fly there to see him. And, you know, me and my boyfriend did do long distance, but there wasn't a sense of, like, we did it evenly. So there wasn't a suspicion around me going and hanging out with a male friend. Yeah, I think that's the thing where it's like, okay, it's. You're willing to do effort for this, but not for me. Yes. So what? You care about that person more and I want to see them more.

[Morgan]

I think that's very, very telling in relationships and friendships. It's like, if you're the friend that's always willing to, like, drive over to their house and pick them up, but yet, like, you're heading back from dinner and they refuse to drop you off at your house even, like, that's not an equal relationship. Like, that stuff drives me nuts. Like.

[Gemma]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

And it's like, again, it goes back to that thing. It's like, why do you do nice things for people? Like, it shouldn't be expected that it's reciprocated, but it's still like, you want things to feel balanced, you want it to feel fair.

[Gemma]

Yeah. And also, it sounds like there's resentment there. I think any kind of resentment, like, that doesn't tend to go away.

[Morgan]

No, it just.

[Gemma]

Oh, I also just like, I'm. I feel a bit suspicious about this male friend.

[Morgan]

And we're all entitled to have friends of who we want. But, like, where it's like, you won't ever take an hour trip to go visit your boyfriend, but you'll get on a plane.

[Gemma]

12 hour round. 12 hours. Did you hear that?

[Morgan]

So is that someone that you have.

[Gemma]

Been pining for male, female friendships, Baby.

[Morgan]

There's that stunning.

[Gemma]

That doesn't apply to everyone, but definitely applies to a few.

[Morgan]

A lot of comments of support on this one. There's another one that says, op. This is a scathing observation from her point of view about you and your relationship. If she thinks she will resent you in the future, then that means that the seeds of that resentment are already planted in her mind. She thinks that she won't be happy with you in the future due to your income. I think she's still with you because she's not ready to have kids yet. When she thinks that she needs to start having kids will be the time when she'd break up with you to find a suitable partner to have kids with. So I think, in other words, you are a placeholder and the man right now because you keep her happy. The question is, what does she do to make you happy?

[Gemma]

Dun, dun, dun. That's a.

[Morgan]

And then they go on to like, talk about like, again, that travel and that trip. And they go, this is very concerning. She's willing to buy a plane ticket, guessing that's not cheap. Go through the hassle of going through the airport, fondled by TSA, fly for 12 hours on red eyes both flights just to see a friend. And she's not willing to make some minimal efforts to visit you. That should tell you where her priorities are.

[Gemma]

I agree.

[Morgan]

This is the worst possible way for him to find out that she's cheating on him.

[Gemma]

Oh, big assumption.

[Morgan]

But not that big the shoe.

[Gemma]

At least she hasn't done it recently. Since she didn't end up going on that trip.

[Morgan]

She didn't end up going.

[Gemma]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

I think, honestly, I think maybe she's not cheating, but more so like if the opportunity arose, she would. I think it goes back to that. Like, maybe she was friend zoned or maybe they were friends with benefits in the past and she's hoping there's a chance. But you know, she's willing to maintain at least a friendship to keep the door open.

[Gemma]

I think also there's a sense of emotional cheating. Like she's not sharing her feelings with her partner, but she'll share them. Like, but she'll go on this beautiful weekend with her friend.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Gemma]

Which she should be entitled to do, but she should also wanting, like wanting to be sharing that with friends, the person that she, I'm hoping, loves.

[Morgan]

Yeah. Well, we have an update.

[Gemma]

Oh my God, she's pregnant. I just had to say it. What?

[Morgan]

Yeah, we're done.

[Gemma]

Oh, good job.

[Morgan]

Sorry it wasn't the dramatic ending some may have been looking for, but I did bring up what I saw. She cried and said she didn't mean it, etc, and that was about it. Thanks for the people reminding me I'm a catch because it seems like I forgot that for a bit. But I'll probably wait a bit before dating again. So I won't be able to see how true that is for a while. Small edit. She didn't go on that 12 hour round trip flight because I called her out. She cheated in the past, but not on me, that I know of. And for the people saying I'm cooked or things like that for waiting this long, I had very important tests to take, so I didn't want the additional drama until they were over. So it's not like I read it and was going to let it slide because people were calling him out to be like, he saw those texts 42 days ago and he still hasn't broken up with her.

[Gemma]

I'm sorry. This man sounds incredibly healthy. Healthy and mature.

[Morgan]

Very in touch with himself.

[Gemma]

I love it. He's like, I'm not going to. I'm not going to date for a while, mate. I love this guy.

[Morgan]

Yeah, this is a good vibe.

[Gemma]

Also, like, he did the right thing for him. He's allowed to wait. He's allowed to wait.

[Morgan]

Allowed to wait.

[Gemma]

Yeah. And he takes his education seriously. I know that sounds like a man who's gonna make more than 130, but.

[Morgan]

He'S gonna have a doctorate.

[Gemma]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

Like, go handsome. He's got a bright future.

[Gemma]

Yeah, he does.

[Morgan]

And she does too. She'll find her person.

[Gemma]

But yeah, to be fair, I don't think she did anything wrong. Like, it wasn't nice. It was. It was quite true, but it was shitty. It was to her sister, you know?

[Morgan]

Well, and the sister was the one that technically said, you're out of his league. And she just said, I agree. Yeah, but still agreeing to that and then hammering home. He eats like shit. I wouldn't want kids. Even if I did want kids, it wouldn't be with him. Like, ouch.

[Gemma]

Yeah, you're totally right. You're totally right.

[Morgan]

Bye. Bye, Felicia.

[Gemma]

Bye, Felicia.

[Morgan]

Bye. Another one of this week's partners is Rocket Money. If you're like me, you probably sign up for free trials and forget to cancel them a lot. And then you're charged. And honestly, it's a lot easier to cancel your card and get new numbers than it is to go in and unsubscribe and figure out how to cancel. Well, that's where Rocket Money comes in. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings. When I first started using Rocket Money, I found out I was paying for the same streaming service twice. And I'm sure A lot of you out there could be in the same boat as me. And as someone that's prioritizing financial wellness and really good budgeting this year, Rocket Money's dashboard is so nice. I see my expenses across all of my accounts in one easy place. And my favorite feature, Rocket Money will even negotiate your bills lower for you. So no more taking your time to call those companies and ask for retention offers or threaten to quit. Rocket Money will take care of it. So cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. To Rocket Money.com THT today. That's Rocket Money.com THT RocketMoney.com THT okay, I think we have time for this crazy one and then a little bit of a pallet cleanser.

[Gemma]

Okay, let's do it.

[Morgan]

Okay. How do you feel about the concept of work wife? Work husbands?

[Gemma]

See, my boyfriend has a work husband.

[Morgan]

Ooh.

[Gemma]

But I feel like if he had a work wife, I'd be a little bit, like, suspicious. Be suspicious. But I'm sure she'd be lovely. And I'm sure I know he would never do anything, but there is definitely, like, a feeling of, like, ah, Don't a lot of relationships start at work?

[Morgan]

I have gone down the rabbit hole of this recently of, like, how many affairs actually start at work. Like, we've had a couple different stories that have, like, brought it up, and the stats on it is insanely high. Insanely high. I'm just going to Google it. So I don't like misquoting the third way that.

[Gemma]

Like this. I think it's the third highest way that people meet.

[Morgan]

85% of affairs outside of marriage start at work.

[Gemma]

Yeah. No, I believe it. I fully believe it.

[Morgan]

What? 85%?

[Gemma]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

Also, we didn't talk about this. Like, I've had no story to bring it up, but I had one on Patreon that, like, again, I brought up and I found out this stat that 1 in 10 men. Like, this was a heterosexual study. 1 in 10 men. So 10 of men will cheat on their pregnant partner. Rocked my world.

[Gemma]

No. That makes me so sad.

[Morgan]

I never would have guessed that that stat was 10%. Like, never. I would have said one in a hundred.

[Gemma]

Yeah. Probably even lower.

[Morgan]

Like, I. Maybe one in a thousand. Like, I never would have guessed that stuff.

[Gemma]

10%.

[Morgan]

There's a lot of studies coming out on it now, and this one psychologist has really, like, analyzed it and he wrote a book on it.

[Gemma]

What's the psychologist name? I need to read his stuff to just make me feel Terrible about the state of the world, obviously.

[Morgan]

The psychologist is Robert Rodriguez. He is the author of what's your pregnant man thinking? So apparently, According to him, 10% of fathers to be cheat on their partners during pregnancy.

[Gemma]

Oh, my God. I'm never getting pregnant. I don't want.

[Morgan]

I just.

[Gemma]

Am I gonna keep my relationship or keep my baby?

[Morgan]

I never. Just the stats around that. And so, like, 10, that 85% of affairs start at work. Like, not saying all of your partners are going to cheat. Right? Not saying that, but of the affairs that people have outside of their marriage, 85% start at work.

[Gemma]

I want to know how many people don't cheat on their partners.

[Morgan]

I would be really.

[Gemma]

Please say it's more than 50. It probably isn't, because that's higher than, like, the divorce rate. Yeah. Come on. We need to know.

[Morgan]

We need some hope.

[Gemma]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

According to a YouGov poll, around 63% of Americans who have been in monogamous relationships report that they have never cheated on their partner. Meaning a majority of people don't cheat.

[Gemma]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

Thank gosh, there's hope, guys.

[Gemma]

I've never cheated. Have you?

[Morgan]

No. The other week's dumb.

[Gemma]

Yeah, me too.

[Morgan]

Okay, so work wife. This is coming from true. Off my chest. Four days old, my husband doesn't see how his work wife is trying to destroy our marriage. I, 31, female, am at my wit's end with my husband's 32, male co worker, Sarah, 30, female, and his complete inability to see what's happening. I'm not usually one for Reddit, but I need to know, if I'm crazy here, where do I even start? Three years ago, my husband Mark started working with Sarah. At first, I tried to be welcoming. I invited her to our barbecues, included her in group outings, and genuinely tried to be friendly. Big mistake. She spent the entire time making backhanded comments about everything from my career. Oh, you're just a yoga instructor. How peaceful. To my cooking quote. I guess not everyone can master basic seasoning.

[Gemma]

Bitch.

[Morgan]

The real problem is, is that Mark thinks she's just being funny. Last month, she literally threw away the anniversary mug I gave him because it clashed with the office aesthetic. When I got upset, Mark said I was being too sensitive. And that quote, sarah just has high standards for office decor. It was a mug with our wedding photo on it.

[Gemma]

Oh, my God.

[Morgan]

Some greatest hits from Sarah. And these are in bullet points. She scheduled a mandatory work dinner on our anniversary. She convinced Mark not to take a promotion because it would mean working with a different team. She posts daily photos of them together with hashtags like hashtag work, power couple, hashtag workspouse. She tells everyone at their office that she, quote, takes better care of him than I do. She changed his coffee order and now tells everyone she trained him. Right. The worst part. My husband is completely blind to all of this. Yesterday he actually told me about how Sarah said our new house, which we spent months searching for, was charming in a starter home kind of way. He repeated this while laughing. I tried to talk to him about it, but Sarah has convinced him I'm just insecure. She's managed to insert herself in every aspect of our lives. They text constantly, even on weekends. She knows his schedule better than I do. She rearranged his entire desk and office wardrobe because his style was too. Suburban husband. That's what he is. Last week, I suggested marriage counseling. He looked genuinely confused. He, of course, went and talked to Sarah about it. And I found out from another coworker that she's been telling people that Mark and I are going through a rough patch and that she's just being a good friend by giving him someone to talk to. We weren't going through anything until she started this nonsense. The breaking point. I stopped by his office to surprise him with lunch. I know, I know. But it was his birthday, and Sarah was supposedly out sick. Guess who was there? Sarah. She had miraculously recovered and brought him a cake that said to my work hubby with a photo of them from the office holiday party. She saw me and said, quote. Oh, Amy, you came too. How nice. Mark, you didn't tell me your real wife was coming. I'm not crazy, right? This woman is trying to destroy my marriage while my husband stands there grinning like it's all some big joke. What do I do? Divorce seems extreme, but I'm running out of options here.

[Gemma]

A moment of silence.

[Morgan]

Divorce might be the best option here. No, I'm just kidding.

[Gemma]

Sarah needs to back the fuck off.

[Morgan]

I think Sarah's going to get what she wants.

[Gemma]

To be honest, I do as well. Mainly because he just, like, can't see it. I honestly think he does see it.

[Morgan]

I think he does and he likes it.

[Gemma]

Yeah, I think that's my. That's what I'm scared about.

[Morgan]

I think he's got a crush on Sarah. I wouldn't be surprised if they're banging already.

[Gemma]

Me neither. I'm sorry, but the ins. The. The thing that got me was the photos every single day. I don't even post photos of my actual anything every single day. So firstly, this woman is just trying to say to the world this is happening. She's trying everything to make this happen. And I think that he is kind of mainly probably leading them both on. And you know what? Let's. Let's. Sarah aside, this is your husband.

[Morgan]

Yes.

[Gemma]

And you two are meant to be in love, and you two are meant to have a partnership, and he is not respecting that you are coming to him earnestly saying, this makes me insecure. He's like, I just don't see it. Okay, you don't need to see it, because I've communicated to you that this.

[Morgan]

Is how I feel and respect my feelings.

[Gemma]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

Are my feelings not more valuable to you than.

[Gemma]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

Your co worker?

[Gemma]

Yes.

[Morgan]

The fact that he didn't take a promotion.

[Gemma]

Yes.

[Morgan]

To the point where it's starting. It's actually starting to, like, detriment his career. It's detrimenting his personal life. It's impacting all areas of this man's life. But he wanted to be around this woman so much that he didn't take a promotion because it would mean not working with her.

[Gemma]

Some people, like, will literally take promotions, even if it means being away from their spouse. But this man had to stay close to his work wife. Like, that doesn't make sense. I'm sorry. I do think that Sarah's gonna get what she wants. I don't think divorce is the option. I think that she seriously needs to sit down and say almost an ultimatum, like, do you want a work wife or do you want to. A real wife?

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Gemma]

Like, as Sarah said, poor Amy.

[Morgan]

I know. And I'm like, a lot of people. I love that you bring up ultimatums, because, like, a lot of people are like, ultimatums are bad. But I kind of struggle with, like, okay, what's the difference between an ultimatum and just setting a firm boundary and a choice? And it's like, it's not like she's not giving him a choice. It's. It's literally, here's your choices. Because as of right now, our relationship is suffering. I'm being constantly disrespected, and, like, it's at Everything is at my expense.

[Gemma]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

Like, of course he doesn't want to set a boundary with her because he enjoys his attention. He enjoys this flirting at work.

[Gemma]

But it's. You know what? Back to this ultimatum thing. Why not? In this. In this situation, it does honestly seem like he has to choose, because the person who loses is his wife. She is losing in this situation, and she will continue to lose until either, like, it's his responsibility to acknowledge her feelings and get a grip and either move away from Sarah or cut off some kind of contact, find a new job, maybe take that promotion like that. Marriage sounds doomed if it continues the way that it does.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Gemma]

And then, you know Sarah. It also just sounds like he might find someone even. I don't know, maybe he'll find a new work wife. Sarah's gone.

[Morgan]

Like, I know. And I. I also think, like, Sarah only wants what she can't have. I'm like, if these two did get divorced, would Sarah even be interested? I don't know. I'm also curious about Sarah's relationship status. Like, is she dating or is she literally trying to swoop in, like, if she's single?

[Gemma]

That would scare me. Because if. If, like, Tom had a. Tom had, like, a single female friend who was doing this. I can't imagine being with him if he didn't listen to me. No, the disrespect from that as well.

[Morgan]

That is what's so boggling to me. It's like, you guys are married. I've had boyfriends that have dumped girlfriends of theirs because of how they treated me. Boyfriends who, like, ended up cheating on me, but still found that their friend was more disrespectful to me. They found that more disrespectful than cheating. So they were willing, like, you know, I'm like, that math. I'm like, they were willing to cut off female friends because of how they treated me. And her husband won't.

[Gemma]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

And at the end of the day, it's like, is Sarah a big problem? Yeah, but he might be worse.

[Gemma]

I agree with you 100%.

[Morgan]

Top Comment on this one. You have a husband problem. Go to counseling and get professional help to communicate your concerns. On. Remind him that he's married to you, not Sarah, so her opinions shouldn't matter when it comes to your marriage. Good luck, but be prepared for the worst. I agree.

[Gemma]

I agree with that statement.

[Morgan]

Next comment down. Yeah, this guy isn't oblivious. He's complicit. He knows what's happening, and he likes the attention. He is happy to let his girlfriend disrespect his wife.

[Gemma]

That's literally what you were saying, though. It's true. They're dating.

[Morgan]

They're. They're basically dating.

[Gemma]

They're like, Christian dating. Like, they're not kissing or, like, touching or maybe having sex or maybe they are, but they're, like, doing all the cute couple things.

[Morgan]

They are Mormon dating.

[Gemma]

They're Mormon dating. Aren't they like.

[Morgan]

Oh, you're on it.

[Gemma]

She's got him like a birthday cake.

[Morgan]

Like a cake with their picture on.

[Gemma]

It from the Christmas party.

[Morgan]

Where was the wife at the Christmas party?

[Gemma]

Why wasn't she there? I hate her. Actually, I don't hate her. I hate him.

[Morgan]

I hate him. I might hate him more. Yeah, I don't like them both, but I really don't like him.

[Gemma]

Yeah, like Sarah's. It's not Sarah's relationship. Like, I still think she's not great, but.

[Morgan]

Well, guess what?

[Gemma]

Oh my God. An update.

[Morgan]

We have an update.

[Gemma]

Okay, tell me, tell me, tell me.

[Morgan]

Hi, I posted a few days ago. I really didn't expect my post to blow up. I got so overwhelmed by all the comments that haven't responded to any. I want to address everyone who says it's fake. I understand why you think that, but this is my personal hell. I only listen to Reddit stories on TikTok. But when this reached its boiling point, I just needed a place to talk. So I made an account and tried to yell into the void. Well, the void turned out to be less empty than I thought. Now to why everyone is here. The update Before I Talked to my husband, 32, male, I decided to do some investigation.

[Gemma]

She went through his farm.

[Morgan]

I'm so scared. I haven't read this. I'm so scared.

[Gemma]

Oh my God.

[Morgan]

I started with his phone and read all of the messages between him and Sarah. She badmouthed me a few times. He did nothing to defend me, but didn't engage either. She was flirty. He wasn't really flirty back. They talked a lot and he praised her frequently for her work ethic and intelligence. I didn't see anything about cheating. I checked his email. Nothing. I checked his work email. Nothing. I looked through our other devices. Nothing. I searched high and low for a second phone. Nothing. Everything I found was always dancing that line. Nothing was outright cheating. But here are the things I found that did hurt my feelings. Bullet point Number one He has lunch with her and only her every day in the office. They don't really like anyone else, so they'll criticize others and say, let's talk more at lunch. They're serving XYZ today. Next he'd say things like, quote, I'm sure if you were a wife you would X, Y, Z. He always kept it as a wife and not my wife, but it still upset me. She admitted to breaking the mug on purpose. He didn't get upset with her, just said, yeah, the photo GIFs are kind of corny.

[Gemma]

Ouch.

[Morgan]

Ouch. That sucks. There was, I think there was, like, a little edit on the bottom of the original post. Now that I'm peeking, I'm like, wait. Mug edit. To add. I should have told the mug story in its entirety. She accidentally broke the mug. I noticed it was gone when I was visiting him one day and asked him about it. He said she accidentally knocked it over. And then later, he repeated a joke she made about how it didn't fit in with the office aesthetic.

[Gemma]

So she broke the mug.

[Morgan]

She broke it on purpose.

[Gemma]

I'm sorry. It's a bit corny. I'm sorry that someone who loves you is corny. I'm sorry. That's so bad. That's so terrible for you. Do you need to see a doctor?

[Morgan]

She's miserable. Yeah, she's actually miserable.

[Gemma]

Yeah, so is he. Dick. Oh, my God.

[Morgan]

I confronted him. I laid it all out. And while he wasn't upset, he did try to brush it off. He said I was being sensitive and overreacting. I told him if we didn't have a real conversation about this, I would file for divorce. That got his attention, and he sat down with me. He admitted that at first he found it odd that Sarah was trying so hard. He saw her trying hard with all the men in the office. The more attention she gave him, the more he enjoyed it. And the more he responded, the more attention she gave until she just had her sights on him. He knew some of the other men were envious, and he liked that, too. He admitted that eventually he just got in too deep. He said he knew it was wrong, but had gotten addicted to the attention and didn't want her to move on to another man. So he indulged her, sometimes at my expense. He said it was just nice to have two women in the two major parts of his life, stating that he knew we'd rarely see one another, so what was the harm? He reiterated that he never, ever physically cheated with her, but admitted it could be called an emotional affair.

[Gemma]

Could.

[Morgan]

It was painful. I won't hide that. I mean, really painful. Like I wasn't enough. I told him from this point on, he needed to stop communicating with Sarah and asked to be transferred or switch jobs altogether. Now, folks, I mean it when I tell you this. He lost his shit. He began raising his voice, saying things like, he never cheated. It was all above board, and I couldn't control who he talked to at work. He called me a narcissist, a control freak. He told me I had no idea how hard it was, how much stress he had in the office and that his personal relationship with Sarah helps a lot. Taking it away would just damage his mental health. It got so bad that I started crying. I couldn't take it anymore and I decided to leave. I packed a small bag and called my mother in law. She's the only family I have. And I gave her a rundown of what was going on and she offered her home to me. I'm staying here and just hoping my husband calms down so we can revisit this. I want to work it out. I love him more than anything. I will try harder to answer comments on this post and and I will definitely update if something new happens. This has been really therapeutic and makes me feel less alone.

[Gemma]

My sweet girl. My sweet girl. The anger, that rage that really shows where he's true. Like he's bullshitting. Like he is. He is lying that it doesn't mean anything and it was never physical cheating. It could be emotional cheating. He's had more anger about you saying you can't see him than empathy or sadness about you saying you're gonna get a divorce.

[Morgan]

That right there. Literally, he's more worried about losing Sarah than losing you.

[Gemma]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

That's what that whole freakout just showed. And the way he just like instantly went to attacking her. You're a narcissist. You're this. You're this. You're like, because I'm tired of being disrespected. You just admitted the problem. You said you're addicted to it. You agreed or admitted it was an emotional affair.

[Gemma]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

So why would allow you to continue with an emotional affair?

[Gemma]

He wants to have his cake and eat it too. And he's like, why won't you let me do that? He's like this big baby. He's like this toddler who's like, I want it, I want it, I want it. No, that's not what adulthood is about. That's not what marriage is about. I also feel for her that she only has her mother in law. That's really rough.

[Morgan]

I know that she doesn't have the.

[Gemma]

Support system that I'm assuming he has.

[Morgan]

So I hope she's got some friends. I hope she's got like another village that like isn't just family.

[Gemma]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

And mother in law is on her side. We have a comment from just 23 hours ago that like, mother in law is on my side told me point blank he is wrong. However, she doesn't want to get in the middle because she doesn't want to damage the relationship with either one of us. Yeah, but I'm welcome as long as I want to stay there. As for my husband, he has tried to reach out. He's called, left messages, texted. I let him know I was safe and left it at that. He will message or call every few hours, but we haven't talked.

[Gemma]

Where's the flowers? Where's the redundancy? Where's the new job applications that.

[Morgan]

Don't.

[Gemma]

Sorry.

[Morgan]

Don't come at me unless you're ready to make a change.

[Gemma]

I'm sorry. Calling someone is easy. Doing something about the situation that is causing your spouse deep emotional distress, that's the hard thing. And that's the thing he needs to be doing well.

[Morgan]

And the thing is, it's like, you want a work wife, and I get it. Like, we spend half of our lives at work, right?

[Gemma]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

You want a work wife and you want the real thing. But when your work wife is now hurting your real life, like, you can survive at a job without having an emotional affair with a co worker. It's called friends.

[Gemma]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

Literally, like, make some fucking friends at work.

[Gemma]

And you know how the thing was, he was like. She was saying how neither of them like anyone.

[Morgan]

That's toxic.

[Gemma]

That's so toxic. But I can just imagine, like, all the rumors going on in that office.

[Morgan]

Oh, everyone thinks they're having an affair. That's why.

[Gemma]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

That's why other co workers are reaching out to the wife.

[Gemma]

Yeah. For sure.

[Morgan]

Everyone's bad for her. They feel bad for the wife. That's why they're reaching out. They're being like, damn, if this was my husband, no way. No way in hell.

[Gemma]

Yeah. I'm so sorry. I hope she leaves him, I think. But she can do it. What's best for their marriage, you know, I. I know.

[Morgan]

And she really sad. She's like, I want to work it out. I want to go to therapy. I want to try to fix this. I love him. But you also need to love yourself. And if he's not willing to work through this and if he's not willing to make steps to change this behavior, you gotta go. Because he doesn't love you.

[Gemma]

Bingo. That's what I was about to say. He does not love you. At least not in the way that you love him.

[Morgan]

He loves himself more, but he wants to have that cake and eat it too. And he's not willing to make a sacrifice. Air quotes there. Like, I'm baffled.

[Gemma]

I'm baffled.

[Morgan]

I'm baffled. But I've kept You here long enough. I'm gonna lighten the mood with one more because I find this amazing.

[Gemma]

Oh, yay. I'm so excited.

[Morgan]

Okay, this one is coming from Relationship Advice. It is titled, My 19 Female Boyfriend, 22 Male, Has a Pirate ship bed and refuses to change it. Help. Yes, you read that correctly. My 22 year old boyfriend had a replica of the Black Pearl as his bed. We're both in college. Currently I live in a dorm while my boyfriend has his own apartment. Out of respect for my roommate, I sleep over at my boyfriend's place instead of him sleeping in my bed since our dorm room isn't that big. I love the Black Pearl and I think it's cute, but we need a real bed at this point. I asked him if we could think about getting a new bed, but he said it would ruin the aesthetic of the room. I even offered to chip in, but he declined. We're not big people, but the twin size mattress does not work. My boyfriend is 6:3 and hangs off of the mattress. That's my current situation at the moment. I'm headed over to the Black Pearl now. Wish me luck.

[Gemma]

Oh, I'm sorry. I love I let your boyfriend be a little bit of a dog.

[Morgan]

I love that. Yes.

[Gemma]

I think that's cute. Like, let him grow up when he's ready. I don't know. I. I actually think that's really nice. I think. I love, like, when my partner has weird quirks and weird hobbies and like, if it's the bed, I'm sure it's frustrating, but like, let him be who he is.

[Morgan]

It's cute in the long run. In the long run, is it going to work if he refuses? Refuses, Right. Like you guys move out, you get a house or an apartment or whatever together, and he refuses to get rid of that bed. I don't know what you're going to do. I think at that point you have to hire like a carpenter and make like a custom one.

[Gemma]

An even bigger one.

[Morgan]

An even bigger one.

[Gemma]

That'd be a nice Valentine's Day present.

[Morgan]

I'm like, you could do that. Do you want to see a picture of it?

[Gemma]

Oh my God.

[Morgan]

Yes.

[Gemma]

I really do. Hey. But also, like, I think when they move in together, I like when my boyfriend's a bit of a dork. Like, I like that he's a bit of a nerd. It's cute. I really thought this was fake.

[Morgan]

No op is in the comments. This is a picture of the bed. Apparently it was from Costco. It has. It's A full boat. Like, if you think about one of those baby boats that have oars on it, it's one of those, but with a bed frame in it. But then they retrofitted it, so it's got, like, a captain's wheel, like the ship's wheel at the front of the bed.

[Gemma]

It's like a full. It's surrounded. So it's not just the headboard. No, it's the full bed. Is. Is. It's in a ship.

[Morgan]

It's in the boat.

[Gemma]

It's in a boat.

[Morgan]

So, like, I'm like, you could get another one and just push them close together, but, like, you're kind of separated.

[Gemma]

Like, hold hands.

[Morgan]

Yeah, you're separated a little bit.

[Gemma]

Just take one of the walls out.

[Morgan]

But some people aren't cuddlers, and some people go so far as, like, not sharing a bedroom with their partner because of snoring or whatever. So I'm like.

[Gemma]

When you move in together, I think it's a. It's a conversation to be had for now. He lives alone. He's having fun. Like, he sounds like a really sweet. I don't know.

[Morgan]

We found. Okay. We find out more details.

[Gemma]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

His has a chest in the front and the back. It doesn't have the wheel.

[Gemma]

Okay. It makes it a little bit better.

[Morgan]

He said his parents bought it for him at Costco when he was 7. He might have to let that go. I'm gonna be honest.

[Gemma]

Yeah. I thought he bought it, like, with adult money.

[Morgan]

I thought.

[Gemma]

Are his parents still alive? Is it sentimental?

[Morgan]

We have no mention of if parents are alive.

[Gemma]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

Or not.

[Gemma]

I'm like, maybe it's sentimental. Maybe it's nostalgic. Maybe it is quite literally Peter Pan syndrome. How funny is that?

[Morgan]

How funny is that?

[Gemma]

I know. Peter Pan syndrome. Like, for those of you who don't know what that is. Like, not willing to grow up, not willing to become an adult.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Gemma]

See, I'm conflicted. I think it's not a problem until they move in together.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Gemma]

I don't know, though, because I'm like, have you heard that thing about men who have Navy bed sheets and, like, oh, my God.

[Morgan]

And their mattress on the floor?

[Gemma]

Yeah. Yeah. It's like, this is.

[Morgan]

This is like.

[Gemma]

But this is like, a cooler version.

[Morgan]

I mean, I think it'd be so cute if he, like, want. If he wants kids. If he saved it and then, like, his kids used it someday.

[Gemma]

I think that's a really. Would be a great thing for her to say.

[Morgan]

Love that. Like, love that. I'm not asking you to get rid of it forever. You know, if we have a guest room, we could put it in the guest room. But I would love to cuddle with you. And you're six three. And twin beds are. They're tiny.

[Gemma]

What about if you just keep the headboard? You can keep the headboard. Put it over a double bed. Put it over a queen bed.

[Morgan]

Okay.

[Gemma]

I think there's this thing of, like, I want you to keep what makes you happy, whilst also meaning that we can be a bit more comfortable.

[Morgan]

I like that. I like that.

[Gemma]

I love the practical DIY solutions.

[Morgan]

Yeah. And I mean, OP does say she likes it. She's like, I love the Black Pearl. It's cute. So they.

[Gemma]

Sounds really sick.

[Morgan]

They'll figure it out.

[Gemma]

Yeah, they will.

[Morgan]

They'll figure it out. That's not. That is the. Probably the only story in this that doesn't make you want to say psych.

[Gemma]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

Because this episode was insane.

[Gemma]

It really was.

[Morgan]

It was insane.

[Gemma]

Thanks for having me.

[Morgan]

Thank you so much for coming on. I feel like I'm just, like, I just want to pick your brain forever, but I, of course, can't do that. So if other people are in the same boat, where can they listen? You have two amazing shows.

[Gemma]

Yeah, I have two shows. Mantra, which is like a weekly affirmation mantra show. So every week, like, we'll give you a new kind of grounding thing to take away with you. So I cultivate peace within.

[Morgan]

I need that.

[Gemma]

I just, like, I deserve.

[Morgan]

I need that.

[Gemma]

I know it's good, right? Like, I work hard for what I want to achieve. Like, I release the need for external validation, that kind of stuff. And we, like, really ground you in that and, like, kind of hypnotize you with words.

[Morgan]

I need that.

[Gemma]

And then the psychology of your 20s, and I feel like we go through some of these other dilemmas, but we explain the psychology behind them.

[Morgan]

I love, love that you guys go listen. Your life will be changed. I literally listened to one. One clip of Jama's earlier, and I'm like, okay, I'm healed. So check her stuff out. It will be easily linked in the description of the show, notes on YouTube on the podcast side. So just one click. It'll be literally one click for you. But thank you so, so, so much for being here.

[Gemma]

Thanks for having me on this rainy LA day.

[Morgan]

Oh, my gosh. I know we have to go out there, but thank you, guys. Be sure to check out Patreon. February has some amazing, amazing bonus stories, a bunch of free ones too. There's two free ones that I just posted, so head on over there. But other than that, until next time, bye.