232: Twists & Turns

Summary

Two Hot Takes, Episode 232: “Twists & Turns”

Released: September 4, 2025
Host: Morgan Absher
Co-host: Jenna Woo

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Overview

This episode embraces the unpredictability of life and relationships, as Morgan, joined by team member Jenna Woo, deep-dives into stories full of surprises, emotional rollercoasters, and unexpected outcomes. Drawing from Reddit, listener submissions, and the “Too Hot Takes” subreddit, the duo offers their signature “hot takes” and honest dialogue on issues ranging from enmeshed family dynamics, bathroom boundaries, and paternity shockers, to deeply personal stories of stalking, paranoia, and trust.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Introduction and Episode Vibe

• Morgan welcomes Jenna, noting her previous Patreon appearances, to the main show.
• Both express nervous excitement, sharing playful banter and behind-the-scenes thoughts.
• Theme: Stories with twists and turns, emotional and narrative rollercoasters.
• Light-hearted discussion about Jenna’s dog, Max, and humorous comparisons to the Grinch’s dog.
• [03:07] Morgan: “Today I think I've adequately prepared you for this theme. It is all about twists and turns, stories that are just kind of all over the place.”

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Story 1: “My boyfriend’s mom kisses and massages him daily. I don’t know if I can handle it.” [06:00 - 18:10]

• Situation: OP has observed her boyfriend (35M) engaging in unusually intimate behavior with his mother (nightly texts, frequent kisses, massages), making her uncomfortable.
• Notable Reactions:
  • Jenna: “She says ‘kiss’. Is this on the lips?” [09:24]
  • Both agree that some of the described interactions cross into emotionally enmeshed, even surrogate partner territory.
• Discussion Points:
  • Culturally, touchiness varies, but the selective affection (mom only does it with son, not daughter) seems troubling.
  • Morgan: “It feels like they’re definitely close. And culturally, maybe they're coming from a different place...but if she's not doing it to anybody else...that feels weird.” [11:02]
  • The dad is described as loving but gets little to no affection.
  • On boundaries: Jenna notes perhaps the sister already established hers, and OP’s discomfort is valid.
• Audience Engagement: Both ask listeners about their own families' affectionate norms and whether their discomfort is projection or legitimate concern.
• Community Input:
  • Some comments suggest OP may be “projecting,” others report “getting the ick” from the story.
  • “There's a difference between love and low-key emotional enmeshment. And that line feels way crossed. You're not crazy for feeling uncomfortable.” [16:33]
• Memorable Quote:
  • Jenna: “How do you bring that up and be like, your behavior with your mother is weird?” [12:35]

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Story 2: “Am I the asshole for shaming my boyfriend over his weird peeing habit?” [18:10 - 32:16]

• Situation: OP’s boyfriend regularly avoids using others’ bathrooms—even when invited—and prefers peeing outside; OP finds this bizarre.
• Key Points:
  • Initial confusion: Is this about social anxiety, a quirky habit, or something deeper?
  • Jenna speculates maybe he thinks it’s fun, or perhaps creepier; both consider if it’s a harmless confidence thing or something pathological.
  • Clarity comes when OP edits to clarify: he peed underwater in a river, not in public view, which lessens the perceived weirdness.
• Discussion:
  • Morgan: “Who doesn’t pee in lakes?...if I go in a lake and I'm sitting there bobbing in the water, sometimes you're gonna have to pee.” [21:36]
  • Jenna suggests maybe he's simply socially anxious about asking for the bathroom (relatable for her younger self).
  • Social anxiety and “stranger danger” stories are shared—delivering further humor to an awkward topic.
• Community Feedback:
  • Top Reddit comment: "Have you ever been in his yard and stepped in dog shit only to realize he doesn't have a dog?" [27:09]—drawing laughter.
  • Further debate about the etiquette and environmental impact of peeing (and pooping!) outside.
• Memorable Moments:
  • Morgan’s anecdote: Worker poops in the woods; “He just wanted to.” [28:00]

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Story 3: “My old stalker is back and my husband is making me feel like I'm the crazy one.” [34:21 - 56:07]

• Background:
  • OP has a past stalker, Fred, who re-emerges after the death of her protector/friend Pete. Despite changing cities and deleting social accounts, Fred tracks her down again. OP’s husband dismisses her concerns, tells her to “change her routine,” and claims Fred is “harmless.”
• Emotional Highlight:
  • Morgan: “If I told Justin I have a stalker and I'm scared...the last thing he would be like is, ‘Oh, well, change your routine, I guess.’” [39:24]
  • Jenna calls out the husband’s egregious lack of empathy/support.
• Discussion Points:
  • The difference in how men and women perceive threat and fear; Jenna points out men may lack understanding but should still offer empathy.
  • Both unpack the misogyny and negligence in law enforcement’s response to stalking (“Restraining orders don’t work”).
  • The psychological trauma and exhaustion caused by having to constantly watch one’s back and having an unsupportive spouse.
• Notable Listener Comment:
  • “If you change your routine, the stalker feels satisfaction because he's able to control part of your life...that is terrifying.” [44:39]
• Updates:
  • OP confronts her husband—he breaks down, confesses he was researching Fred covertly, and they unite to gather evidence and get a lawyer.
  • Mechanic finds a GPS tracker on her car; lawyer helps secure restraining order.
  • OP pursues further safety training and community vigilance.
• Key Quotes:
  • Jenna: “She didn't ask for any of this. She's just like...you either get stalked or you have to go through all of this.” [61:20]
  • Morgan: “Don’t try to play it cool, you guys...Just be on the same page, like, I hear you.” [62:16]

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Story 4: “Boyfriend demands paternity test after birth of mixed-race daughter” [66:35 - 84:13]

• Situation: White-presenting couple has a baby with distinctly Black features; boyfriend accuses OP of cheating and leaves, refusing contact until OP agrees to a paternity test. OP’s great-great-grandfather was Black.
• Discussion:
  • A debate about the plausibility of “dormant” genetics, empathy for OP’s position, and the overt racism/classism from the boyfriend’s mother.
  • Jenna: “It feels racist to me.” [70:20]
  • Morgan emphasizes the shock of postpartum abandonment, the baby’s changing appearance, and the pain of parental distrust.
• Update:
  • Paternity test confirms boyfriend is the father; he explains his behavior was influenced by his mother’s manipulative, bigoted comments.
  • OP: Boyfriend may only return if he agrees to therapy, sets boundaries with his mother, and puts in work to rebuild trust.
• Key Takeaway:
  • Both agree: Good that OP lays out boundaries and demands change; whether forgiveness or reconciliation is possible is another matter.
• Memorable Quote:
  • TL;DR from OP: “I'm Not a lying whore. Cause mom is a bitch. We're trying to work things out.” [81:32]

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Story 5: “I found out how my roommate treats my cats when I’m not home” [85:21 - 92:14]

• Story: OP catches her male cousin/roommate, usually “tough” with her cats, secretly baby-talking and cuddling them when alone. Turns into a sweet story of revealed softness and new shared pet routines.
• Update:
  • The cousin invents a “pet while they eat” ritual with the cats during OP’s vacation; they now wait for his return to get petted while eating.
• Lighthearted Ending:
  • Concludes on a happily-ever-after note, both in studio and for the cats.

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Notable Quotes

• Morgan on family affection norms: “There are these motions that again kind of cross that line of, like, did she use her son as the surrogate partner?” [10:24]
• Jenna on unhealthy family dynamics: “I think the mother is...like a bit of a step too far with what she's doing. Even if we are a little weird.” [16:10]
• Morgan (re: stalker story): “There’s no coincidences with stalkers.” [40:47]
• Jenna on the paternity test story: “He just wanted a reason to get out from parenting.” [72:00]
• **Morgan: “Don’t try to play it cool, you guys...Just be on the same page, like, I hear you. What can I do to support you?” [62:16]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:07] — Episode theme and intro
• [06:00] — Story 1: Boyfriend’s boundary issues with mom
• [18:10] — Story 2: Boyfriend’s outdoor peeing
• [34:21] — Story 3: Stalker trauma & husband gaslighting
• [49:41] — Stalker update: husband comes around, GPS tracker found
• [66:35] — Story 4: Paternity test shock and maternal racism
• [85:21] — Story 5: Roommate’s secret affection for cats
• [91:21] — Cat story update & closing banter

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Tone and Style

• Mix of light, humorous banter and deeply empathetic, serious conversation.
• Willingness to laugh at the absurd while demanding justice for those in danger.
• Direct engagement with Reddit audience and listener comments.

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Useful For…

• Anyone navigating complex family relationships, trust issues, or seeking validation about “weird” boundaries
• Those curious about handling unexpected life and relationship “twists and turns”
• Listeners in need of cathartic, real talk about heavy topics—balanced with heartwarming, silly stories for relief

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For updates or to join the discussion, visit the Two Hot Takes subreddit. For bonus content, check out the Patreon.

Transcript

[Morgan]

This episode is brought to you by Uber. Are you heading back to campus this fall? You should check out Uber 1 for students. It comes with a bunch of perks like $0 delivery fees, up to 10% off eligible orders, and 6% back in Uber credits on rides, plus daily freebies from your favorite brands. Try it out now and get your first four weeks free. Become an Uber one for students. Member and start saving on Uber and Uber Eats. Eligibility and member terms apply. This episode of two Outtakes is brought to you by Wayfair. This is not your first rodeo. After all of the wild and somewhat uncomfortable stories we read on this show, one thing's for sure. Life can be unhinged. That's why your home should be your calm, comfy, happy place. And Wayfair totally gets that. My happy place includes a nice sofa, an ottoman to kick my feet up on, and a blankie. You guys know I love a blankie. And I love pieces that look good and are gonna last. And that's what I've gotten with Wayfair. A lot of my studio furniture is even from Wayfair. And they delivered it, came in, set it up, it was seamless. And I'm even trusting Wayfair for the lounge furniture for our wedding. So whether it's furniture, storage solutions, decor, you can get it all in one place at Wayfair. Shop everything [e-mail] with free and easy delivery straight to your door. That's W A Y-F-A-I R.com Wayfair Every style, every home. Who let the dogs out? Who, who, who, who, who?

[Jenna Woo]

He like that.

[Morgan]

Hi. You want to come say hi to and show the people? Max, come here. Come here, Max. He's. He's. Come on. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.

[Jenna Woo]

He likes the bed.

[Morgan]

Come here. Oh, all right. He'll get there. He'll get there.

[Jenna Woo]

He's nervous.

[Morgan]

He is nervous. Are you nervous?

[Jenna Woo]

I.

[Morgan]

Yes.

[Jenna Woo]

Really, really terrified of the Internet.

[Morgan]

No, it's going to be fine. No, it is. Everyone's going to be really nice. Please. Hi, guys. Welcome back to another episode of Two Hot Takes. I'm your host, Morgan, and today I am joined by one of my amazing Too Hot Takes team members, Jenna Woo. If you're. It's going to be fine.

[Jenna Woo]

No, it is going to be fine. I'm just like, what am I doing here?

[Morgan]

You're. You're doing great. If you've been over on our Patreon, you are familiar with Jenna. Jenna's been on some really fun episodes, and you've done a great job there.

[Jenna Woo]

Oh, thanks.

[Morgan]

So we figured, let's see how you do on the big show, the Real Deal.

[Jenna Woo]

Yeah, we will see how I do.

[Morgan]

No, patron's the real deal, too. I feel like a lot of times I give harder, crazier stories over there.

[Jenna Woo]

There's some crazy ones.

[Morgan]

We've had some really wild ones.

[Jenna Woo]

The. You know what I'll never forget? What? What is it? The Jolly Rancher story.

[Morgan]

Yeah, that was a bad one. Yeah. That's over on Patreon for free, if you want to figure out what that is about. Totally free.

[Jenna Woo]

Just.

[Morgan]

You don't even have to pay for anything. It's.

[Jenna Woo]

It's a pretty good free one.

[Morgan]

It. I think so. It's a crazy one. But we've had some really fun episodes. So today I think I've adequately prepared you for this theme. It is all about twists and turns, stories that are just kind of all over the place. Okay. Feel like a little bit of a roller coaster. You don't know what's coming.

[Jenna Woo]

I love that.

[Morgan]

And something's definitely up, you know, but.

[Jenna Woo]

Does it come down?

[Morgan]

We will see.

[Jenna Woo]

Okay.

[Morgan]

We will find out. Are you going to have a catchphrase?

[Jenna Woo]

Yeah, it's a.

[Morgan]

I'll give you. I'll give you a second.

[Jenna Woo]

Give me 10 seconds. Okay. I see why Justin struggled that one time.

[Morgan]

Let her flush.

[Jenna Woo]

Yeah, that was really bad.

[Morgan]

That was horrendous.

[Jenna Woo]

Okay, let's go, let's go, let's go.

[Morgan]

Let's dive in. Before we get into this week's stories with Jenna, this episode of two Hot Takes is presented by State Farm. There's nothing better than having friends who support you and your passions. If it weren't for my friends, this podcast would probably not exist. And like those friends, State Farm is there to help you choose the coverage you need. There's so many different coverage options out there, so it's nice having the help. To find the right one for you, go online@state farm.com or use the award winning app to get help from one of their local agents. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

[Jenna Woo]

What a stressful intro. Okay, hold on. I need to.

[Morgan]

You're stopping. Your stress is contagious. You got your emotional support dog there.

[Jenna Woo]

He's. I think he's stressing me out more.

[Morgan]

Really?

[Jenna Woo]

No, it's fine. I actually forgot he was here.

[Morgan]

Yeah. Also, you guys, if you're watching on YouTube, please let me know if you think Jenna's dog, his name is also Max.

[Jenna Woo]

Max Muncie.

[Morgan]

But he Looks like the dog from the Grinch, right? Who is also Max.

[Jenna Woo]

Yeah, I like can't picture what that.

[Morgan]

Dog looks like right now. Oh my gosh. I'll show you.

[Jenna Woo]

Is he just a white dog?

[Morgan]

No, no. Oh, are you wrong? Okay, well, I don't know why. Okay, now that I see pictures, I'm.

[Jenna Woo]

Glad we googled this before.

[Morgan]

I am totally wrong. But like, I think it's just vibe. Maybe the vibe matches.

[Jenna Woo]

Yeah, I could see the energy, maybe.

[Morgan]

See, see the vibe. The vibe kind of matches that.

[Jenna Woo]

That's pretty perfect.

[Morgan]

Yeah, the vibe matches, but yeah, they.

[Jenna Woo]

Don'T look alike at all.

[Morgan]

Yeah. Okay, I take that back. They look nothing alike. I thought the dog looked total my head.

[Jenna Woo]

It's okay.

[Morgan]

It's fine. Okay, so our first story on this week's episode is coming from our very own Too Hot takes subreddit. Yes, 10 hours old titled my boyfriend's mom kisses and massages him daily. I, female 30, don't know if I can handle it.

[Jenna Woo]

Ew. What?

[Morgan]

I, female, 30, have been dating my boyfriend, male 35, for about two years. I've met his parents twice for a week each time, and the second time I started noticing some weird behavior between him and his mom. At first I thought it was cute that he's close with his family, but then I noticed a few things that felt off. She texts him every night at 10pm to say good night. Excessive, but not alarming. After spending four days with the family, I asked him if we could go out for a romantic dinner, just the two of us. As I grabbed my bag, he kissed his mom before we left, even though we were only gone for two hours. He also kissed her goodnight every night before going to bed. One morning at breakfast, he was checking the weather on his phone when she came up behind him, buried her lips in his back and sat there for 10 seconds. I was inches away and it felt extremely disturbing. More like something a partner would do, not a mother. She randomly massages his shoulders almost every day while he's sitting at the table on his phone. When I asked him about it, he said she's just being affectionate because his dad is closed off. But to me, the way she expresses it crosses the line. I also noticed she doesn't do this with his sister and he said it's because she doesn't like being touched. So maybe his sister already established boundaries that I feel are missing here for some context. His dad is a sweet man who always provided for the family and supported her in being a stay at home mom. Even after the children grew up. He is very gentle and quote, Labrador type of man. And yet he gets no affection. If anything, he gets nagged and told off for small things. And they also have separate rooms. To be clear, I don't feel jealous or possessive. I just feel disturbed because it doesn't seem like motherly love and makes me uncomfortable to witness. If his mom was genuinely touchy feely, she would do it with everyone else. We have future plans together and want to build a life, but I don't know if I can handle being around his family with this dynamic. He visits every two months for three to four days, usually alone. But in the long term, it's not realistic to always avoid them, especially since they always spend Christmas together. The issue is he seems clueless about his mom's behavior and insists it's just normal. That worries me slightly, but he's always been a people pleaser. Am I overthinking this? Right now? The only option I see is to stop visiting with him, but that doesn't feel sustainable. I would like to be more present and involved with his family as he expressed he likes if I visit. I'd really appreciate outside perspectives because this happens daily when we're there and I can't stop thinking about it.

[Jenna Woo]

Okay, my first question.

[Morgan]

Okay.

[Jenna Woo]

She says kiss. Is this on the lips or is like a cheek kiss? Or like, what are we doing here? Because one's a lot more intense than the other.

[Morgan]

I feel like I'm envisioning kiss on the lips. Like good night. Yeah, kiss mommy good night.

[Jenna Woo]

Yes. I mean, it's all weird, but like, I'm struggling to figure out how weird it. How deep is this affection she's using her son instead of her husband for that kind of affection. Feels. That's where it like gets weird to me.

[Morgan]

Yeah. And I think it's like a hug or like, I think like a little rub on the shoulders. Like, isn't that weird? But it's a text.

[Jenna Woo]

That's fine.

[Morgan]

That's fine. But the one that like really kind of got me and I think it's because I just did it to Justin. Like last night was she came up behind him, buried her lips in his back and sat there for 10 seconds.

[Jenna Woo]

Yeah, that's a little weird.

[Morgan]

That's 1. A long time.

[Jenna Woo]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

2. Very intimate. 3. Where on his back. Because like when I just did it, like I went up behind him and I like had my lips on the back of his neck. Like, that is like a couple, very intimate thing. So there are these motions that Again, kind of cross that line of, like, did she use her son as the surrogate partner? It feels like that a little bit of maybe enmeshment. Been a while since I whipped that one out. But it just like, it feels like they're definitely close. And culturally, maybe they're coming from a different place.

[Jenna Woo]

But that's what I'm kind of wondering too. But if she's not doing it to anybody else. Yeah. But also, what about her husband? Like, if she's not giving him any affection, that feels weird.

[Morgan]

Well, for sure. And then she also just nags him for, like, little.

[Jenna Woo]

Maybe that's her actual love language. She just wants to be mean.

[Morgan]

Yeah. Some people are into that. You're like, be mean to me.

[Jenna Woo]

I really had to take us. You and was it Lauren talking about nagging in a Patreon? I really had to take a look at myself.

[Morgan]

The shoe might fit.

[Jenna Woo]

I was like, oh, my God.

[Morgan]

Oh, so that's what that is.

[Jenna Woo]

But like, in a cute way. Okay. Anyway, we don't need to talk about me.

[Morgan]

What would you do, though, if this was your. Your partner? You've been together two years.

[Jenna Woo]

It's tough. Well, like, it sounds like he kind of grew up like that. If he does not think anything of it.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Jenna Woo]

So it's, like, hard to kind of blame him if he's just been, like, conditioned that this is a normal thing. Well, I don't know how I would, like, explain it to him that this is weird.

[Morgan]

Yeah. And that's the thing. Like, I don't know how you would convince someone that it is weird if they don't see any issue.

[Jenna Woo]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

Like, this is just my relationship with my mom I was in.

[Jenna Woo]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

And so you could say, like, I'm uncomfortable with it, but at the end of the day, that's him, his choice, his relationship. You might not be able to change that.

[Jenna Woo]

So I don't know if you could.

[Morgan]

No. And so you really kind of have to ask yourself, can you deal with this going forward?

[Jenna Woo]

Because then it was also, like, how do you bring this up of like, this is not just like, a friend or someone he's close to. Like, it's his mom. How do you bring that up and be like, your behavior with your mother is weird.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Jenna Woo]

Because he's going to be offended for sure. He's going to be defensive, I would assume.

[Morgan]

Yeah. I mean, and op kind of has, like, asked him about it already. And he said, she's just being affectionate because his dad is closed off. Also, when you hear that like, but.

[Jenna Woo]

Then she said he was like a golden retriever kind of guy. Like, he is just. There's no way.

[Morgan]

Zen.

[Jenna Woo]

There's no way he's closed off.

[Morgan]

No. But also in the same breath, like, you. You hear that, right? Your mom is extra affectionate with you because your dad is closed off.

[Jenna Woo]

She's not getting it from him. So that. Yeah, yeah, that was the line that I was like, that feels weird.

[Morgan]

Like, you're so close. Like, you're so close to almost being there.

[Jenna Woo]

Yeah. I don't know if he'd get there, though.

[Morgan]

I don't know. This is. This is a really tough one for me. I wouldn't be able to deal with it.

[Jenna Woo]

I don't think so either. I'm also just like. I can't picture that kind of like, at least me and my family were not like, touchy feely, affectionate. So to me, that's even weirder.

[Morgan]

I know I would have a tough time with it, but some families are. Let me know what you guys would do in the comments.

[Jenna Woo]

No judgment if you are.

[Morgan]

No, no. Text your mom every night before bed.

[Jenna Woo]

No, I think that one's. That one's nice. I actually think that one's nice.

[Morgan]

I can. I'm a terrible texter. Oh, I don't.

[Jenna Woo]

I don't do that.

[Morgan]

But yeah, no, I would have. I would have a tough time, but.

[Jenna Woo]

I think that that would be sweet.

[Morgan]

Yeah, it's cute. Top comment on this one. I didn't grow up in an affectionate family, so physical affection was not something I was used to or experienced, which is why it has always felt weird to me when I saw it. In other families, the issue was with me, not them. In fact, I found it odd when my friends would call their mom just for a chat. My family only calls each other if someone dies or something else bad is happening. It blew my mind that people called their family just for connection or for fun.

[Jenna Woo]

It is weird that we both just said, we don't do that. And I feel a little called out.

[Morgan]

But I do call to check in, but I'm not like an everyday talk to my parents. Like, that is a lot with how much I have going on in my life.

[Jenna Woo]

You're a busy woman. Every time you read me your schedule, I'm like, whoa, stop.

[Morgan]

The comment goes on to say, in saying that if this is making you uncomfortable, first look inwards and test your own personal experiences or perceptions, then talk to your partner about it. But not in a way where there is blame or fault, but just to Understand, there's a reason you are weirded out by this, but you need to communicate to your partner. Now. I hug and kiss my kids whenever I can. Physical affection is so important. And I hope when my kids are in their 30s, we still hug and kiss on the cheek, hello and goodbye, and that they call me just for no reason other than to chat.

[Jenna Woo]

The cheek, though.

[Morgan]

The cheek. Cheek. I'm like, I love how the French do it. Just a little bit downside. Downside.

[Jenna Woo]

That's like, what kind of kiss was he? Were they giving each other full lips still? You still. I mean, unless there's clarification, that one's tough for me.

[Morgan]

But that's the thing. Like, it's just what you and your family are used to. Like my dad's family, they are so affectionate. Like him. I'm pretty sure him and his brother give each other kisses goodbye.

[Jenna Woo]

And I love that.

[Morgan]

And that's great for them. But like, I. I would. I personally, I can't. Like, I. I cannot. I'm. A hug. I'll give you a hug, but I'll.

[Jenna Woo]

Give you a hug. And that's like, pretty wild for me.

[Morgan]

But then it's like, are we the messed up ones?

[Jenna Woo]

Well, that's what I'm saying.

[Morgan]

Are we broken?

[Jenna Woo]

Well, that's why I was saying that comment's calling us out. Maybe it's just us, but I do think maybe it's a little bit of a call out. But at the same time, I do think the mother is there. Is like a bit of a step too far with what she's doing. Even if we are a little weird.

[Morgan]

I'm just curious if there's any other comments. Someone goes, it doesn't sound like they are making out. It just sounds affectionate.

[Jenna Woo]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

Next one. I grew up in a super affectionate family too, and I'm all for hugs and kisses, but. But even I got secondhand ick reading this post. There's a difference between love and low key emotional enmeshment. And that line feels way crossed. You're not crazy for feeling uncomfortable. And then a lot of people are like, I also got the ick reading it, but I do wonder how much of it is op projecting and describing it in a way that makes it seem weirder than it actually is.

[Jenna Woo]

Mm, that's interesting.

[Morgan]

I know, but I feel like some of those motions are like, very hard to like, describe in a way that isn't how it actually is. Like the coming up behind and giving a kiss on the back for 10 seconds.

[Jenna Woo]

Like well, was hit her lips on him the whole time or was it like a kiss and then like she just like put her head in his back and we also back to the kiss thing. She didn't clarify. She just said kiss. She didn't say on the lips. She didn't say on the cheek. She's leaving out a little bit of.

[Morgan]

Detail, maybe purposefully to like.

[Jenna Woo]

Cause that's how just kiss sounds like creepier than. Yeah, a little kiss on the cheek.

[Morgan]

Yeah, a kiss on the cheek. Op, you're overreacting a little bit. Hold locking lips then. Yeah, maybe a little off. That's just me. Yeah, that's just me. But hey, you're out there. You're a listener of the show. Reddit account is three years old, so it's likely not a fake throwaway account coming just to spam post us. True. So if you're out there and you're listening, we would like an update. Thank you, we would.

[Jenna Woo]

I also forgot that this was from one of our she's listening.

[Morgan]

Maybe one of our own. Maybe.

[Jenna Woo]

Well, we'll see.

[Morgan]

We'll see. Moving along to the next one here, this is coming from R. Am I the it is titled Am I the Asshole for Shaming my Boyfriend over His Weird Peeing Habit.

[Jenna Woo]

Does he like to pee outside?

[Morgan]

My 25 female boyfriend, 22 male, is a great and considerate guy and usually extremely well mannered. Unfortunately, recently I learned about a really strange habit of his that concerns me. When we were just dating and he was visiting me at my apartment, he never asked to use my bathroom. I didn't ask if he needed to use it because I assumed as an adult he would let me know like all of my friends do. A few weeks into our relationship, he told me he would pee in the bushes behind the apartment complex. I thought this was weird. When I asked him why, he told me he didn't want to be rude. I assumed he was just trying to be polite since he didn't know me well then, but it still really didn't make sense to me. He uses my bathroom with no issues now. Several months after this, he visited my parents for the first time at their home. He had already met them before, but this was the first time being in their house. He was drinking a lot of water, so before we left, I asked him if he needed to use their bathroom since we had a long drive ahead of us. He said he was good. They also offered their bathroom, but he refused. We stopped at Kroger as they were closing for drinks, which is only A couple of minutes away. When he got back into the car, he drove around to the back of the building, got out and started peeing into the grass. He said he didn't use the Kroger restrooms because they were closed. I was baffled that he would rather pee outside than in my parents clean and convenient bathroom. He said he was being respectful. I don't understand how using someone's bathroom after they offered it could be disrespectful or impolite. We went river tubing yesterday, and rather than peeing before or after in one of the many restrooms on site, he peed in the middle of the river with tons of people around. It was really quick and no one noticed. I scolded him for peeing in a public place with children around. His explanations for peeing in weird places never really satisfy me. I don't know how common this is for men, but I think it's abnormal. Am I the asshole for telling him his habit is gross and disrespectful instead of polite? Like he insists?

[Jenna Woo]

I don't think so. Yeah, I don't. I can't think of a. Other than it being maybe fun to pee elsewhere. Cause he can. Like. I don't really. I don't understand that it would be rude to pee in a bathroom.

[Morgan]

I just don't. It seems like he's like, going out of his way to pee outside.

[Jenna Woo]

No, I think he thinks it's fun or something creepier, but I know.

[Morgan]

Yeah. You wonder if he's got like this thing where he likes exposing himself to people.

[Jenna Woo]

Kind of feels like that a little bit. Not to like, take it right there.

[Morgan]

But I mean, does anyone else go there? But I will say OP does have an edit, okay? Because when I heard, like, river, he peed, you know, in the river.

[Jenna Woo]

I'm like, picturing him like, outside of the river too. Like, peeing into the river.

[Morgan]

Yep, that's exactly what I was envisioning. And OP does have an edit, okay? He peed underwater in the river. He did not whip it out in front of kids.

[Jenna Woo]

That's so different.

[Morgan]

Who doesn't pee in lakes?

[Jenna Woo]

That's what I'm saying.

[Morgan]

Is that just me? Like, if I go in a lake and I'm sitting there bobbing in the water for a while, you're gonna have to pee. Sometimes you're gonna have to pee.

[Jenna Woo]

And then the only other thing I can think of is, like, genuinely in the moment, he didn't need to pee. Cause I've had times where I've Left. I'm like, I really don't have to pee.

[Morgan]

I.

[Jenna Woo]

Five minutes later, I'm like, I gotta pee.

[Morgan]

Yeah, that is true. Like, you've been sitting at a dinner table. You know, bladder's been crunched. Then you get up, you start walking around. Then you're like, oh, here it is. I gotta go.

[Jenna Woo]

So, like, maybe that's it. And then if the Kroger bathroom was closed, I would also go outside if I was a man.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Jenna Woo]

So I don't know. The river thing, that clarification kind of changes things for me a little bit.

[Morgan]

It's less weird.

[Jenna Woo]

It's way less weird.

[Morgan]

It's less weird.

[Jenna Woo]

And it's just peeing in the river. Like, why did she describe it that way?

[Morgan]

Which I've heard is not good for you. I would love.

[Jenna Woo]

In the river.

[Morgan]

Yeah. I'd love for some pelvic floor people to chime in. I've heard that it's not good to pee in the water.

[Jenna Woo]

I fear for my public. My public. Public floor.

[Morgan]

Why? Because. Are you a hoverer?

[Jenna Woo]

I just hold my pee a lot. Like, why? It's just fun. I don't know what I get. I like. I'm, like, working, and I'm like, well, if I stop, I'll get distracted. I'm like, I can't go pee. I don't know.

[Morgan]

Well, there's a point where it is good to hold your pee to train your pelvic floor to be stronger.

[Jenna Woo]

Oh, then I'm have a really strong one.

[Morgan]

But there's a balance. Yeah, there's a balance.

[Jenna Woo]

No, it's not that bad. It's not that bad.

[Morgan]

Okay.

[Jenna Woo]

But, yeah, I do hover.

[Morgan]

No. Oh, my God. Sometimes. Oh, my gosh.

[Jenna Woo]

You do what you gotta do. I know. You've said it on here multiple times. And I take that. I take it in, and then I say, I'm gonna still hover.

[Morgan]

Yeah. That's crazy. I'm gonna start taking, like, pelvic floor classes next year after I get my life back a little bit. Like, wedding planning and, like, just all the travel for work. This year has been a lot. Yeah.

[Jenna Woo]

What are the classes you just like?

[Morgan]

Well, with occupational therapy, you can become a pelvic floor therapist.

[Jenna Woo]

Oh, okay.

[Morgan]

So I don't want to do it because I have this. But I just. I'm very curious about it. Yeah.

[Jenna Woo]

Cool.

[Morgan]

And you have to do continuing education anyways to maintain your. My license. So I'm like, I'll just count towards my hours.

[Jenna Woo]

That's cool.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Jenna Woo]

And you know Stuff.

[Morgan]

And then I learn more. You can learn. I told Justin I want to start taking, like, law classes to, like, learn how to be a lawyer.

[Jenna Woo]

Okay.

[Morgan]

I'll be like, Kim K. Where it takes me, like, eight years to become a lawyer.

[Jenna Woo]

Hey. But then, you know, it.

[Morgan]

I think it'd just be fascinating.

[Jenna Woo]

Yeah. Lawyers speak is unlike anything else.

[Morgan]

They can speak and they can write.

[Jenna Woo]

Can't do either of those. Really bad at both of those.

[Morgan]

Same. Same, actually. How. How are we here? So are you the. For shaming your boyfriend over his weird.

[Jenna Woo]

Now I kind of feel like you are. I. The context is throwing me off.

[Morgan]

Now his excuses seem plausible. Like, his justification, like, the Kroger bathroom was closed.

[Jenna Woo]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

What am I gonna do?

[Jenna Woo]

Wait. But now I'm going back to. He didn't use her bathroom when he first met her, and he went in the bushes. That's weird.

[Morgan]

It seems like he's just scared to ask people for things or, like, I don't know. I've never asked someone for the.

[Jenna Woo]

I'm gonna be like, I need to use the. But it's the restroom.

[Morgan]

I mean, I've had people ask to use my restroom that, like, I was kind of surprised by. So, like, if people can ask when they maybe shouldn't, you can definitely ask.

[Jenna Woo]

When you're allowed to.

[Morgan]

Yeah. And, like, that sounds weird. Like, I had someone, like, literally was, like, delivering a package to my neighbor and was like, hey, can I use your restroom?

[Jenna Woo]

And I was like, oh, did you let them?

[Morgan]

Oh, no. I was like, this is stranger danger. I am like, people are brazen.

[Jenna Woo]

Yeah. No, I had the. My Chemical Romance was happening at the Dodger Stadium.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Jenna Woo]

And some girl dressed. She was, like, ready for the concert. She came to our gate. We were outside, and she came to our gate, and she was like, can I please, please use your restroom? I'll trade you a joint to use your restroom.

[Morgan]

Did you let her?

[Jenna Woo]

Well, my roommate was there, and I was like, you got to take care of this. But I was like, she looks like she really needs to pee.

[Morgan]

I've done that in college. Like, if you're.

[Jenna Woo]

She looked like a college. Like, she was pretty young. And I was like, she can use the restroom. She looks like she's in pain. Yeah, but if my roommate wasn't there or had it been a man, it might have been a different story.

[Morgan]

Yeah, no, that makes. That makes total sense. I mean, shoot your shot, I guess. But, like, he's scared to ask for a bathroom even when it's offered to him. He's Scared to use someone's bathroom.

[Jenna Woo]

And you know what? Now this is a grown man. But when I was younger, I would be scared to ask my friends for, like, can I get a cup of water?

[Morgan]

True.

[Jenna Woo]

I was scared to ask that. So I can understand that. But when you need to pee, I don't. I think it's weirder to go in the bushes and then someone find out you went in the bushes than ask to use their restroom.

[Morgan]

I agree. He's also 22. Yeah.

[Jenna Woo]

He can ask for the restroom.

[Morgan]

You can ask for the restroom.

[Jenna Woo]

But social anxiety. But if you're dating someone. I don't know. Am I just being judgmental at that point?

[Morgan]

I'm very perplexed by this. I don't know. I remember my little brother refused to pee inside when he was, like, six. And maybe that's him. And he just never outgrew it.

[Jenna Woo]

Never outgrew it.

[Morgan]

Top comment on this one. Have you ever been in his yard and stepped in dog shit only to realize he doesn't have a dog? Oh, God. Gross.

[Jenna Woo]

Ew.

[Morgan]

Oh, my God.

[Jenna Woo]

Do you think he pees in his.

[Morgan]

He.

[Jenna Woo]

There's no. No.

[Morgan]

Okay. This is crazy. How much is, like, applying to these stories today? So we were back home in Minnesota just now for two weeks. Justin was working on the fence with, like. And he pooped in the house. This worker. No, Justin. Justin did not. Justin would walk to the house. But one of the workers that was also working on the fence, like, keeps toilet paper in his truck and then was just like, hey, buddy, you gotta take a break? I gotta go take a shit. And Justin's like, do you want to go inside? Okay. Like, okay. Thinking he's going to the house, he grabs a roll of toilet paper out of his truck and walks to the woods. And when he gets back, says something like, got to do it. Like, the bears do it. Shit in the woods from time to time. Meanwhile, there's a bathroom. Like, just, you know, he just wanted to.

[Jenna Woo]

He just liked it.

[Morgan]

Some people are just into it.

[Jenna Woo]

That's a different level. Because you got to dig a hole.

[Morgan]

Yeah. We also don't realize how much water helps. Like, if you've pooped outside and then compared it to pooping in a toilet. Like, water does so much for you.

[Jenna Woo]

Like, with a bidet.

[Morgan]

Like, just the toilet bowl. Like, it contains the smell.

[Jenna Woo]

Oh, I see.

[Morgan]

What you're saying is different. Contains the smell mostly. Like, if you poop outside, it's 20 times worse.

[Jenna Woo]

Oh, sure. Yeah. That doesn't sound fun. Like, I could kind of understand why a man would find peeing outside fun. I can't. The poop is different level.

[Morgan]

It is. A lot of people are like, the comment after that is, close the thread. We're done here. Next one thread's done. Honestly, that dogshit comment sums up how weird his polite logic is. You're not overreacting. It's totally fair to call out stuff that's gross or disrespectful, even if he thinks he's being nice. Next one down. What about the plants? Leave the plants alone. Yeah.

[Jenna Woo]

The poor bushes.

[Morgan]

Someone's like, if he was peeing on a lemon tree, it would make sense. But this is weird. And unless he has extreme toilet anxiety and it is part of his quirks.

[Jenna Woo]

What would a lemon tree do?

[Morgan]

So we had a story ages ago on this podcast where someone was writing in that their gardener keeps peeing on their trees. And apparently urine is really good for citrus trees.

[Jenna Woo]

That's so great to know. I have an orange tree.

[Morgan]

A lot of people. Well, there you go. I don't like peeing outside. Like, guys are very fortunate. It's a different experience. But, like, to get up and you're just, like, soggy. Because you never can drip dry completely.

[Jenna Woo]

No. And I'm not using a leaf.

[Morgan]

No. You never know what's on that leaf.

[Jenna Woo]

When I was hiking with my sisters, my oldest sister, she had to pee. She peed outside, like, a lot.

[Morgan]

Okay.

[Jenna Woo]

She just had to keep going. But she brought toilet paper with her, so that's a win.

[Morgan]

Did she take it with her, though?

[Jenna Woo]

Yeah. Oh, you mean the toilet paper?

[Morgan]

Yeah. You know what?

[Jenna Woo]

I don't know what she did with.

[Morgan]

That, because then it's like, I actually.

[Jenna Woo]

Don'T know where she put the toilet paper.

[Morgan]

Cause then it's like, wait, like, what do you do with that? You leave it behind. I mean, it's paper.

[Jenna Woo]

It's paper. You know what?

[Morgan]

Biodegradable.

[Jenna Woo]

I didn't even think about that.

[Morgan]

I mean, when you go camping and you poop, you just bury your paper. Well. Or do some people take it well?

[Jenna Woo]

I've only been on campsites where there's, like, a toilet. I'm not that hardcore of a camper.

[Morgan]

If you are a hardcore camper and you are pooping in the woods a lot, do you bury your paper or do you take it with you?

[Jenna Woo]

I would actually like to know for, like, just in case I come into.

[Morgan]

I would like to know because I know that's one of the reasons I will never do Mount Everest. There's Just a bunch of poop up there.

[Jenna Woo]

Well, that makes sense. In the snow, I'm more scared of an avalanche than the poop.

[Morgan]

The poop and all the other bodies out there. There's so many dead bodies on. You just hike and there's bodies. God. Sometimes the bodies, like, shake loose and then they just, like, go down the hill. Didn't you see the video?

[Jenna Woo]

No, I don't.

[Morgan]

One of the main bodies that people would take pictures of on their way up got loose and rolled down the hill.

[Jenna Woo]

Are you joking?

[Morgan]

No.

[Jenna Woo]

People would take pictures. Number one, people would take pictures of the body.

[Morgan]

That's disgusting. They're famous, like green boots or whatever they call the one. There's a whole documentary on this one guy that actually just went up to get his brother's body because he wanted it back.

[Jenna Woo]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

Which, like.

[Jenna Woo]

No, that would make sense, but, like.

[Morgan]

Yeah, there's a lot of bodies up there.

[Jenna Woo]

I think I'd be pissed off if someone was, like, taking pictures of my loved one up there.

[Morgan]

Yeah, that's tough.

[Jenna Woo]

I didn't know about that.

[Morgan]

Okay, I know.

[Jenna Woo]

Well, now you know. Now you've de influenced me from ever wanting to do Mount Everest.

[Morgan]

No, I think out of anyone I know, I feel like you could do it.

[Jenna Woo]

Oh, thank you.

[Morgan]

I feel like you could do it.

[Jenna Woo]

I think I could make it to the base camp. I don't know if I could get any further.

[Morgan]

I don't want to try. I don't want to try.

[Jenna Woo]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

Justin, his. One of his best friends, his fiance, just like, randomly was like, I'm going to do Kilimanjaro and did it.

[Jenna Woo]

Hell, yeah.

[Morgan]

Like what? She's just little baddie.

[Jenna Woo]

I love that. That say you're going to do something, go do it.

[Morgan]

Crazy. Crazy. But moving along to this next one, this episode is brought to you by. Skims. Undergarments used to be a pain for me. Whether it was painful underwear from a bra cutting into me, shapewear rolling up and causing chafing, or just not looking good. That was until I tried skims. And one of my favorite new pieces from skims is the Skims Fits Everybody Lace Tanga. Unlike other underwear, the Skims Fits Everybody Lace Tanga is a fan favorite for a reason. It has the same buttery, soft, stretchy fabric from the original Fits Everybody line that I also live in now with a delicate lace trim that adds just the right touch of sexy. I love that the bra can double as a comfy fit I lounge around in or something I can pair with a lower cut tank top to go out on a date night. That's probably my favorite part about a lot of my skims items is how versatile they are, how you can wear them in so many different ways. And you're always going to feel really good in them, especially the bodysuits. Talk about snatched. So shop my favorite bras and [e-mail] after you place your order, be sure to let them know I sent you. Select podcast in the survey and be sure to select my show in the dropdown menu that follows. Thanks, guys. Okay, buckle up, y'. All. This is another one that was originally posted to our Too Hot Takes subreddit. Yes.

[Jenna Woo]

I love these. They feel so much more personal knowing.

[Morgan]

That it's like, one of us out there.

[Jenna Woo]

Yeah. And that they will really actually maybe hear what we have to say about it.

[Morgan]

I know, it is wild. That's one thing, too. When people are like, do you think all the stories you read are real? And I feel like, yeah, most of them. Obviously, it's Reddit. We're gonna get some that are fake and spammy and whatever, but it doesn't mean that even the fake ones haven't happened to someone, because anything is possible in this world. But when I meet someone at a live show and they're like, this happened to me, and oh my God, you should talk about it on the show, I'm like, huh? I'm like, if that's happening to a real person I'm meeting, then all these other ones are very plausible. Oh, yeah, this one very plausible.

[Jenna Woo]

Here we go.

[Morgan]

My old stalker is back and my husband is making me feel like I'm the crazy one. Hi. Sorry. This is my first time writing in and I don't know what to do, so I'm just going to jump in using a throwaway because I'm sure my actual account is being watched. Also fake names. So I, 32, female, and my husband, 33, male, have been arguing a lot recently over my old stalker for some background. Back in College, I was 24. I dated a guy, let's call him Fred, for around two months. Fred was interesting, to say the least. To save time, he had several red flags once we started dating. So I dumped him. Fred acted like he couldn't care less, so I thought that was that. A few months go by and I'm starting to see Fred everywhere. I see him at the grocery store, I go to my go to nail place, my favorite restaurants, et cetera. I thought it was just a weird coincidence, so I left it at that. A year after Our breakup. He starts messaging me, telling me he was the happiest with me and that he misses me so much. I called bullshit and I blocked him. Then things escalated. Fred changed numbers every time I blocked him, made new social media accounts and I started seeing his car everywhere. I tried getting a restraining order against Fred, but since he hadn't done anything to me, they couldn't do anything. A few months later, I was walking to my car at night. Fred coincidentally saw me walking alone and offered me a ride home. I said no, that I had my own car and I kept walking. Fred proceeded to get out of his car and tried pushing me in his car. I punched him and ran to my car.

[Jenna Woo]

Hell yeah.

[Morgan]

I drove away and luckily he didn't follow. I tried again to get a restraining order, but it was basically his word against mine. They gave me a temporary restraining order, but that's it. I was terrified of even walking outside and deleted all my socials. Thankfully, a very close friend, let's call him Pete, stepped in to defend me. Pete ended up threatening Fred and I finally stopped hearing from Fred. I felt free and slowly got back into my normal life. Now to present day, I'm now married to my husband. I've graduated from college and live alone with my husband. We moved to a nearby city and bought a house together. Sadly, a month ago, Pete died during his sleep and and I was absolutely devastated. I've known Pete since I was in high school and he was my closest friend. To be honest, I'm still not over his death and sometimes I can't believe he's gone. But guess who heard about his death. That's right, folks. Fred found out and is now back. I received texts from Fred a few days after Pete died. I now see him everywhere and he's insisting that we talk. I just walk away and ignore him. I've reported him, but nothing has happened. So I deleted my socials again. Friends have been telling me Fred has been asking around about me. He's asked if I moved, what I am doing lately, if I have other social media accounts, etc. I'm honestly terrified. I've moved since I finished college, but somehow I see him at my gym, grocery store, park, etc. It honestly makes me believe he never stopped watching me and it's terrifying. Ew. I've told my husband about everything and he says I'm overreacting or just plain ignores my concerns and changes the subject. I've argued that he doesn't care and he argues back asking what do I expect him to Do. He says that Fred doesn't know where we live and that we'll just change gyms. My husband is telling me to change my regular routine and stop going to certain places. He says it's no big deal and Fred is harmless. I'm like, fred tried to force me into his car. How is that harmless? My husband has been distant ever since this started, and I feel alone. I don't want to tell my friends in fear they will tell Fred. I can't go to my family because I'm in no contact with them. And of course, my husband could not care less. I need advice. What do I do? Am I crazy? Should I just change my gym and my routine? Like, how my husband says, part of me just wants to move completely, but another part is basically asking myself, why do I have to uproot my life and change everything because of him? Can't he just leave me alone? It's been, like, 10 years already, and I want to move on from this. Should I just talk to Fred, hoping he'll finally leave me alone?

[Jenna Woo]

No. That's really tough.

[Morgan]

This is terrifying also.

[Jenna Woo]

Well, number one, your husband sucks.

[Morgan]

Absolutely.

[Jenna Woo]

What?

[Morgan]

At the very.

[Jenna Woo]

Like, even if you don't understand, like, the idea of someone stalking you, you should still, like, feel her fear and, like, be supportive of her and help her out.

[Morgan]

It's insane. If I told Justin I have a stalker and I'm scared, the last thing he would be like is, oh, well, change your routine, I guess. You shouldn't get your coffee anymore, and you shouldn't do this and you shouldn't do that. Like, he's. He's fine. They're fine.

[Jenna Woo]

Also, what do you think is, like, he's just gonna relearn her routine? He's learned it now. Why would he not relearn it?

[Morgan]

How is that gonna help stalkers adapt? Like, yeah, Alejandra has talked about having a stalker way in the past on an episode. And, like, they adapt. They find different ways to get to you. Like, when they're that unhinged in the head, it doesn't matter what you do, they are going to find a way.

[Jenna Woo]

He also clearly knows where they live. Why would he not?

[Morgan]

Oh, he does. He has to.

[Jenna Woo]

All he has to do is watch her come out of her house and see what her new routine is. I just don't think that would be that hard.

[Morgan]

I mean, if he already knows what gym she's going to. You just follow her home from the gym. Exactly. Like, it's so, so unhinged to say.

[Jenna Woo]

He doesn't know where they live is actually crazy.

[Morgan]

Yeah. And, like, he definitely knows where you live. If he's finding you at the gym, he probably already put a tracker on your car.

[Jenna Woo]

I see. I'm not even thinking that far.

[Morgan]

You're right. She's.

[Jenna Woo]

There could be a tracker anywhere.

[Morgan]

Yeah, You. You immediately have to start, like, getting those little scanners and making sure there's no hidden cameras on your stuff. Like, I don't think she's being paranoid. I don't think she's overreacting.

[Jenna Woo]

Coincidence.

[Morgan]

No, there's no coincidences with stalkers. Not at all. No.

[Jenna Woo]

That he gets threatened and then once. I'm also sorry for your friend. Yeah, so sorry for that. And that you have to deal with this as well.

[Morgan]

And the fact that then you're going through this insane, tragic loss of your best friend and you have your stalker reach out days later, that's like almost it.

[Jenna Woo]

Like, override. Like, you're already sad about this, and then the fear is just going to.

[Morgan]

Be, like, even worse, Completely overwhelming. I. I mean, the fight or flight response, your nervous system. Like, I would be. I would be crashing out. Like, I would be really, really difficult for me.

[Jenna Woo]

And the thing is, I don't know what the solution is. I mean, because the police are no help until something terrible happens, which sucks. It's like, what are they. I mean, they've already told her they can't do anything, which is stupid.

[Morgan]

But I know it's really, really unfortunate how bad our system is at dealing with restraining orders and protecting people, especially women. There was just a double homicide in, I believe, New York. And this woman was a veterinarian. Her ex boyfriend was a cop, and he kept harassing her, kept stalking her. She tried to file a restraining order after a restraining order.

[Jenna Woo]

That's gonna be even harder because he's in with them.

[Morgan]

Yeah. And so she didn't get it. She started dating this new guy who was either a firefighter or, like, volunteer firefighter. And the cop ex. Boyfriend came in and killed them both. Like, believe people. Like, if you're out there in law enforcement, like, take the report. Like, I would rather be safe than sorry.

[Jenna Woo]

Like, but can they, like, legally just not take, like, what? I don't understand.

[Morgan]

I don't. I don't.

[Jenna Woo]

I'm not a lawyer. I don't know.

[Morgan]

I don't know. And I. I wonder if there's anyone out there, like, who's involved on this side of things, whether law enforcement or lawyers. Like, do you say, like, I want you to. Then Document that you're not filing, something like. Can you ask for that?

[Jenna Woo]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

Like, does that help? Can you get a report that or a statement that you came in and attempted to file?

[Jenna Woo]

Like, just by the time, like, there's enough, like, evidence to file, it's kind of already too late.

[Morgan]

I know. And it shouldn't be like that.

[Jenna Woo]

No.

[Morgan]

I mean, what. What harm does a restraining order cause? Like, if someone's coming in genuinely out of fear and saying, hey, can I have a restraining order? Or even like, something maybe not as serious, like a temporary protective order. I'm not sure in the scale of things, which is, you know, ask for the less severe one and just something.

[Jenna Woo]

Something to have documentation at the very least. But, like.

[Morgan]

But you need the people on the other side, the law enforcement agencies, to, like, there needs to be an initiative there where people are believed and helped.

[Jenna Woo]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

It's really frustrating. Really frustrating.

[Jenna Woo]

Because, like, the only thing that I can think of is somebody else in her circle threatening him again. And I don't know what the relationship between Fred and Pete were like. Yeah, clearly Pete's threat was, like, severe. Like, he was scared of Pete.

[Morgan]

I mean, he stayed away for about 10 years, supposedly.

[Jenna Woo]

That other comment, which is also really spooky.

[Morgan]

I know that comment from OP where it's like, I don't think he ever really went away like that. That would actually. To have your whole sense of peace just, like, shattered.

[Jenna Woo]

Because, like, if he wanted to stalk her and not be seen, he could do that. He clearly wants to be seen.

[Morgan]

Yeah. Insane. Top comment on the post. I would actually consider divorce over this. The way he is completely dismissing your very valid fears would be a deal breaker for me. He says Fred is harmless. Ask him what makes him believe that. The fact he is telling you to just change your routine makes my blood boil. If you change your routine, the stalker feels satisfaction because he is able to control part of your life by what he is doing.

[Jenna Woo]

I didn't even think about it like that either.

[Morgan]

That is terrifying. From a psychological.

[Jenna Woo]

He knows he's getting to you.

[Morgan]

Yep.

[Jenna Woo]

Ew. Oh.

[Morgan]

And then next comment down. Yeah. Quote, husband. If Fred is harmless, as you say, why should I change my routine? Those two things don't go together.

[Jenna Woo]

I don't think he cares at all. No, I don't think he believes her.

[Morgan]

Someone goes, I've been around long enough to be suspicious that maybe Fred wrote the husband a letter or met him somewhere and had a brief conversation. And that's why he deemed Fred as harmless.

[Jenna Woo]

Because a man talks to Another man, and therefore he is harmless. That would. If I was the husband, that would weird me out.

[Morgan]

I know.

[Jenna Woo]

What? What?

[Morgan]

Yeah, a lot of people are just irate at the husband. I'd call husband on his bluff and demand we move states or even countries. Okay, darling, your idea is really great. Let's change our routine by moving away from Fred. But realistically, divorce, I think just the.

[Jenna Woo]

Way he, like, doesn't care at all is, like, divorce worthy.

[Morgan]

Yeah. It's insane. We do have a couple comments from OP People are asking, like, what does your husband, like, actually think? And Opie goes, my husband thinks I'm overreacting and says if anything happens, that Fred will end up in jail. And I hate when he says that, because what does that even mean, if anything happens?

[Jenna Woo]

What if she dies?

[Morgan]

That is a very real reality when you have someone this unhinged.

[Jenna Woo]

Right.

[Morgan]

And OP Goes on to say, do I have to end up in a ditch before I can finally be left alone?

[Jenna Woo]

That's what I'm saying. What do you mean? I think this man just has, like. I don't even know what it would be called. But you know how men are just not scared of, like, being harassed the way women are. He just has, like, no concept of what it would be like.

[Morgan]

Yeah. And I think that's, like. That's kind of a common thing, maybe.

[Jenna Woo]

But you should still have empathy for what your partner is saying.

[Morgan]

You absolutely should. And I'm really curious, like, because I've asked Justin about this, and I'm like, do you ever think about getting kidnapped? And his answer is no. And so maybe that's kind of the same thing where it's like, a lot of, you know, guys out there can't really conceptualize the fear from a stalker because it's not a real fear for.

[Jenna Woo]

Them or it's not an everyday thing. It's not a leave your house and have that thought thing.

[Morgan]

Yeah. And I know there's always exceptions to the rule, but, like, if you're a guy out there listening, like, I don't know, like, can you be empathetic even though it's not a real fear for you?

[Jenna Woo]

I would assume so, 100%.

[Morgan]

Especially when it's your partner.

[Jenna Woo]

Your partner says, I'm scared, and you're like, meh, you're fine.

[Morgan]

Fred will go to jail if anything happens.

[Jenna Woo]

What? You don't understand the law at all or our justice system at all. That is a lack of knowledge.

[Morgan]

What has to happen, babe?

[Jenna Woo]

Yeah. What? Something illegal?

[Morgan]

Why do I have to be collateral damage because Fred can't get a clue right.

[Jenna Woo]

I hate him. Dumb man.

[Morgan]

I know. Op does go on to say in another comment, I do have a protection pack and I carry a bat in my car just in case. Ooh, she ready. I've been changing up my routine hoping I won't see him and it's worked a bit, but not entirely.

[Jenna Woo]

Yeah, because he's still going to figure it out. It might help. It might work for like a couple days until he relearns so we do.

[Morgan]

Get an Update this episode is brought to you by Shopify. When I started this podcast, I had no idea how I was going to get merch in all of your hands. Shopify. They made it so easy to get a store set up and let you guys shop. Having a good partner is the key to success and if you're running an E commerce business, Shopify makes a great business partner. They have the tools to start and grow your business from designing a website to marketing and beyond. Turn your big business idea into Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com THT this episode is brought to you by Homaglow. We love a messy story, but having a messy living space can be super overwhelming. That's where Homaglow comes in. They are a top rated home service platform dedicated to making your space clean and tidy through consistent and affordable support. I am so excited to try Homag Glow. The last thing I want to do after having a busy, stressful day is walk into a messy home. I'm overwhelmed, I don't know where to begin and I feel like I never have enough time. And it's super easy to schedule a cleaning. You simply go to Homag Glow's website and choose the day and time that works best for you and match with one of their background checked cleaners. They even offer a Forever Clean membership which saves you $30 an hour on all future cleanings. Take home cleaning off your plate this summer by using Homaglow. Head to Homaglow.com 2HotTakes to get your first three hours of cleaning for only $19. That's H O M E A G-L-O-W.com.

[Jenna Woo]

TwoHotTakes I'm stressed about this update actually.

[Morgan]

Yeah, so this update came a day later. Small update and some information about my stalker situation. I'm still new to posting on Reddit, so for the first part of my post it should be on my account. My friends don't talk to Fred and they are aware of the situation. Fred has reached out to them randomly asking about me. They have reported and blocked him as well. Now for the update. Last night, I decided to have a serious conversation with my husband one last time. I sat down with him and explained the whole situation again. Told him how scared I've been and that he needs to take this seriously. I wanted to show him how terrified I was, how small I've been made to feel, not just by Fred, but also him. How his lack of support and concern for my own safety is making me question our marriage. I asked if he'd even do anything if I was found in a ditch. That is sad that you have to say that.

[Jenna Woo]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

He was silent the whole time while looking at the floor. We sat in silence for a few minutes before I got up to pack my things. My husband proceeded to cry. He apologized and said he'd make this right.

[Jenna Woo]

Good.

[Morgan]

He said he didn't want to overreact in fear of scaring me more, but when in reality, it made me feel alone. My husband has been looking into Fred without my knowledge and has found out where he works, lives, and even Fred's family contact info. He wanted to gather more information about Fred before contacting a lawyer. I'm, like, so shocked by that.

[Jenna Woo]

I'm confused.

[Morgan]

Buddy, you don't have to keep the tough front up. Tell me. Tell me. You're on my team.

[Jenna Woo]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

You know what I mean?

[Jenna Woo]

Like, what is he thinking? Like, no, no. Great. I'm so glad you're doing this. I'm so glad you're doing this. But come on, man. Make her feel good. Like, make her feel safe.

[Morgan]

Make her feelings feel validated. That's. Everyone wants in a partner at, like, at a base level. Like, just. You hear me?

[Jenna Woo]

She can help you look into him, too. You don't got to go do this by yourself.

[Morgan]

You're not Batman. Come on.

[Jenna Woo]

But, like, thanks for doing that, man.

[Morgan]

We're both taking a few days off of work to get our ducks in a row. We're getting a lawyer and gathering evidence of Fred's harassment. We're also currently looking for a therapist so we can both talk about this whole situation and other issues we have in our marriage. I also have some voicemails Fred has left me, and I officially think he's lost it. I have an Apple iPhone and you're able to see voicemails from blocked numbers. Some of the messages are of him saying straight up gibberish, while others are as if he's having a conversation with me. He says things like, quote, oh yeah babe, I get off of work late so tonight is a no go. Or quote, I'm off so you can come pick it up right now. No, yeah, I don't know. I can't do this anymore. There's a lot of fashion in my life. It sounds like he's having a conversation, but it's no one else, just him and it's terrifying.

[Jenna Woo]

Well, he's probably on drugs or something.

[Morgan]

Or having an active psychosis.

[Jenna Woo]

Yeah, that's true.

[Morgan]

My husband does feel bad and is trying his best to console me. He has apologized repeatedly for making me feel lonely and has been more supportive and open. Currently he's looking through my car to check if there's anything that might be giving my location to Fred. I'll keep you all updated if we find anything or if anything else happens. Thank you for all the advice and support and OP ends it with I've posted another update. I think you can find it on my post.

[Jenna Woo]

I would just be like, I just need the next Update.

[Morgan]

So the first update was coming from May 23rd of this year. The second update is June 6th. So 13 days later, almost two weeks later, update number two. Wasn't sure if I should make an update but decided to anyways to maybe get some more advice. Thank you to everyone who gave me advice and encouragement. I finished listening to the book the Gift of Fear and it really opened my eyes to a lot. Now onto the update. After my husband didn't find anything in my car, I still felt something wrong. So I took people's advice and took my car to a mechanic. Told the mechanic about my situation and if he could take a look at my car. And to my horror, a couple of days later, my mechanic found a small little cube that was placed under my car. At first I really wanted to believe it was just a part of my car or something. But my mechanic explained that it wasn't and it was deliberately hidden. The cube is really small and magnetic. I called my lawyer right then and told them everything. I got pictures of the GPS and where it was placed. I thanked the mechanic and drove to my lawyer's office. At this point I was shaking and wanted to cry. How long had the GPS been there? How long has Fred been following me without me knowing? Was he watching me at that moment? Is he going to add another one? He called my husband to meet me at the lawyer's office and told him everything at the office. I just wanted to disappear. I wanted to run away and not look back. I was terrified And I felt so violated knowing I was being watched for who knows how long. With everything we had gathered, my lawyer was able to get a temporary restraining that same day.

[Jenna Woo]

Thank God.

[Morgan]

We are currently going through the process of getting a restraining order while I will have to go to court and see Fred again.

[Jenna Woo]

That sucks.

[Morgan]

My lawyer says the process can be long and draining, but it's something I need to do to get for my own safety. I got a bit scared and had my husband's car also checked for anything. Thankfully, nothing was found in his car. I started feeling watched at home, so I had my whole house turned upside down looking for anything maybe Fred had placed there. Again, thankfully, nothing was found. I've told neighbors about what we found and to keep an eye out for anyone suspicious. I've also started my safety training for handling a gun and shooting and still trying to get my ccw, but it can be a long process. Thank you again for everyone who has given me advice and I'll keep you updated if creepy Fred tries anything. Wow.

[Jenna Woo]

Wow, that sucks that she has to.

[Morgan]

Do all of that.

[Jenna Woo]

But I think, I mean, you said it from the beginning, there was probably something on her car. I mean, and I do know, I did know that they like to hide those to where you can't just like, oh, what's this?

[Morgan]

Well, and the hard part is too, like, this wasn't an airtag. So if, like, if someone places an airtag on your car and you have an iPhone, your iPhone notices the two following you and will say, like, unknown airtag. Is this yours? It even does it with AirPod Pros if they're in the case.

[Jenna Woo]

Oh, yeah, mine will be, like, left behind. You left them behind.

[Morgan]

Or like, if I have Justin's like, in my bag because I borrowed them and I'm driving all over town, like, running errands. It will be like, Apple device following you. Is this yours? It'll even prompt me with the AirPods because people were leaving one AirPod behind as, like, a trick. So Apple has, like, seemingly put in measures that help protect people from their devices getting used inappropriately. Yeah, but this wasn't an airtag.

[Jenna Woo]

No. And it was clearly, why are these a thing? Like, why are these being made?

[Morgan]

It's really crappy. And they're not, like, looking here. They're not even expensive. Like, you can get a tracking cube like this for $24.95.

[Jenna Woo]

There's no way. What did you search? Tracking cube.

[Morgan]

Small tracking cube. Magnetic.

[Jenna Woo]

Nice.

[Morgan]

And there's so many. It's literally there's a product called cube tracker one year battery life 4G LTE real time tracking $74.99.

[Jenna Woo]

So he just goes in every year.

[Morgan]

And replaces his Cube Magnetic Car GPS Tracker One Year battery. Like there's multiple of these things on the market.

[Jenna Woo]

And why does somebody need that?

[Morgan]

I mean, I get it if you're going to like put it on your car as a safety feature. Like if you have a brand new car and it's prone to getting. That's what the car tags are for. But then people can disable their tags. So it's like they have products like this. But that's the hard part. Like there's so many products on the market that are meant for good.

[Jenna Woo]

For good. And then the evil, they find the evil. Yeah, just like AI but that's a whole other topic.

[Morgan]

Yeah, I just saw though that companies are like scaling back their AI because it hasn't made them any money. It's like just had a huge loss.

[Jenna Woo]

Good. That's stupid. I'm. I hate AI.

[Morgan]

I, I don't understand it. Like I, I think in certain regards it can be used to increase your productivity. Like I know someone that uses it constantly to help with their schedules or meal plans or things like that.

[Jenna Woo]

It's also really bad for the environment.

[Morgan]

And there's that. But then some people will argue and say, well, if you eat cow, if you eat red meat, that's way worse than A.I.

[Jenna Woo]

No, I do. I think A.I. is the worst. But yeah, eating meat is also terrible for the environment.

[Morgan]

Yeah, factory farming is a big contributor.

[Jenna Woo]

Listen, I was a vegetarian for eight years. I tried my best.

[Morgan]

Wow, that is a big commitment.

[Jenna Woo]

It was.

[Morgan]

See, I don't. I'm off the cow for the most part.

[Jenna Woo]

Not I'm off the cow.

[Morgan]

I'm off the cow. Except like around my period, all I crave is cheeseburger. So I have an occasional burger.

[Jenna Woo]

That's fine.

[Morgan]

Dude. Habit Burger. You should sponsor me. Cuz those little grilled onions on those burgers. Ooh, ooh, they're good. I. Yeah, I'm really hungry right now. But yeah, I mean, seemingly like positive update. That's the last update we have.

[Jenna Woo]

Oh, so I expected another one. I'm not gonna lie.

[Morgan]

OP hasn't posted anything in.

[Jenna Woo]

Well, I wonder if she like just shouldn't be sharing information about what's going on as well. Is that.

[Morgan]

And a lawyer might have told her that because OP hasn't shared any new information in three months.

[Jenna Woo]

She's probably just going through it.

[Morgan]

Yeah, but I mean Restraining order was granted.

[Jenna Woo]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

And then lawyer said, you're gonna have to go to court. And it's just a process, and that is really hard. Like, imagine being so scared of someone and then you have to go face them in court. Like, that's horrific. I remember when I was working at one of my mental health facility jobs, I had boiling coffee thrown on me.

[Jenna Woo]

Yay, fun.

[Morgan]

And the police showed up, they took my report, and they were like, do you want to press charges?

[Jenna Woo]

And where did they throw it on you?

[Morgan]

Like, all over my arm and, like, my. My, like, neck and chest. And I was wearing, like, a sweater and, like, still got, like, second degree burns.

[Jenna Woo]

No, that's. It's. Yeah.

[Morgan]

I mean, it was boiling water. Yeah. And I remember them just being like, you'll have to go to court. And, like, she might show up to court, but, like, she's, you know, obviously a resident of this facility. Like, the chances of her showing up aren't even good. They're like, you might not even want to press charges and that.

[Jenna Woo]

Interesting.

[Morgan]

Like, they really discouraged me not to. And I. I do understand that, because it's like, oh, I would have had to deal with her again. I would have had to face her again and all this stuff. And I'm like, at the time, I was younger, like, in grad school, didn't really know what to do. And in my head, I'm like, well, these police are telling me not to press charges. And like, yeah, I don't. I don't want to see Janet again. Like, I guess I better not. But in this regard, like, this is someone you have to. Who has truly tormented her, and I can't even imagine how difficult that would be.

[Jenna Woo]

I think just like, that sucks that she has to deal with this. She didn't ask for any of this. She's just like, like, you either get stalked or you have to go through all of this.

[Morgan]

Yeah. Added salt in the wound or another layer of trauma that you did not need and is not your fault but are getting put.

[Jenna Woo]

But you have to deal with it.

[Morgan]

Especially when the husband was not on board at first, because then there's this added layer of, like, I mean, the original title. My old stalker is back, and my husband is making me feel like I'm the crazy one. Like, your person who's supposed to believe you, love you, protect you, isn't doing any of those things.

[Jenna Woo]

I would love to know what he was thinking in his brain to be like, this is a good idea to pretend. I don't give. I don't care.

[Morgan]

And that's so strange because in the background, he's doing all this detective work into him. So just goes against what he's saying because he does believe her.

[Jenna Woo]

Yeah. So just.

[Morgan]

Just tell her.

[Jenna Woo]

Tell her that. Yeah. What?

[Morgan]

I know. Don't try to play it cool, you guys. Like, if. If your partner is out there and you just. Just be on the same page, like, I hear you.

[Jenna Woo]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

What can I do to support you? Like, even if you don't know what to do? Because I find, like, me and Justin, sometimes, like, I'll be venting, I'll be so stressed, I'll have this big issue, and he'll try to, like, give solutions. But, like, then it just, like, makes me feel worse. In those times, like, we've kind of come up with this, like, strategy because of things I've learned, and it's like, do you want help? A hug, support? Like, what do you want? And, like, if he. He'll start to ask me that now, and I'm like, I just want to feel like I'm being heard.

[Jenna Woo]

Yeah. Just listen to me.

[Morgan]

That's it. Like, that's it.

[Jenna Woo]

Sometimes there's not really a solution. It's just like, this is just. It is what it is.

[Morgan]

Yeah. Like, that's super shitty, babe. Like, I'm so sorry you're going through that. Do you want to go get a burger? Are you on the cow this week?

[Jenna Woo]

Yeah, because. And also, like, maybe I'm wrong, but I just feel like if they had investigated together, it would have maybe, like, strengthened their relationship as well if they were, like, doing all this work together. So I'm just confused by him.

[Morgan]

I think that absolutely would have strengthened their bond because then it's like she feels supported, she feels heard. She's got an ally in this fight.

[Jenna Woo]

Because, like, I mean, the main thing was, is, like, I have nobody in her original post. My friends aren't close to him. I don't want to tell them. I don't want it to get back to Fred. Don't have a relationship with my parents. My husband, like, her husband really just, like, added that extra layer for no reason?

[Morgan]

Absolutely. Damn. Don't do what he did. Op. If you're out there listening, I hope all is well. If you can't update again because of legal stuff, totally understand. Feel free to send me a direct message on Reddit, but I really hope you're doing well and are safe and Fred is no more.

[Jenna Woo]

Yeah, screw Fred.

[Morgan]

Fred. Moving on to this next one, though. This episode is brought to you by Hint. We all know that hydration is super important, but why is it so hard to hit your hydration goals? For me, I don't like the way a lot of plain regular water tastes, which is why I love Hint. Hint is flavored with delicious fruit essences like watermelon, pineapple and BlackBerry. They have over 15 flavors actually, and Hint has no calories, sugars or sweeteners. I love the watermelon flavor. It's so refreshing, especially given it's summer and it is hot outside. But there's also some smash up flavors that are on my list this summer like peach, raspberry, blueberry, lemon, Strawberry, lemon. There's so many craveable flavors. So if you want to feel good and actually enjoy drinking water, try hint [e-mail] or at your favorite grocery retailers nationwide.

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[Morgan]

Don't take Zepbound if allergic to it or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer or multiple.

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[Morgan]

Tell your doctor if you get a.

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[Morgan]

Tell your doctor if you experience vision.

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[Morgan]

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[Morgan]

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[Morgan]

Okay, I'm going to give you a choice. Okay. No. Okay, this first one is titled Husband is leaving me but won't give me a reason. Big okay, option number two. Me, 26 female and boyfriend, 29 male of three years. Just had our first baby. We're white, baby is black. I have a close black ancestor, but significant other is furious and accusing me of cheating.

[Jenna Woo]

Hmm, probably that one. There's more going on there.

[Morgan]

There's a lot going on here. As the title says, me and my significant other just had our first baby, were over the moon when we discovered the pregnancy and we were both really excited to have a child together. We want or wanted to get married next year and everything was going great. We were happy. We both look very white. Pale skin, blue eyes, brown and blonde hair. However, my great great grandpa was black and some of his features have popped up here and there in our family. Textured hair, darker skin, more black looking, facial characteristics. My significant other knows this and has seen some of my aunts, uncles and cousins who are who have these features. I don't have any myself and neither does my mom. Our daughter was born five days ago and I guess she just got all of the dormant genes in me because she's really dark skinned compared to us with really curly hair. I think she's adorable. But my significant other flipped. He accused me of cheating, that the baby couldn't possibly be his. I've never given him a reason to suspect me of infidelity and I've certainly never cheated. We argued about it. I pointed at all of my cousins and other relatives who have these features and he absolutely refused to listen. Said our daughter looked too black for that to be plausible.

[Jenna Woo]

Ew.

[Morgan]

He stormed out of the hospital, sent me a text an hour later that we were over. And when I got home from the hospital the next day, he wasn't there and most of his personal belongings were were gone. I tried to reach him, but he didn't answer my calls or texts until three days later when he told me he demanded a paternity test to prove that I was a liar.

[Jenna Woo]

And I bet it came back correct.

[Morgan]

And if I refuse, I'll never see him again.

[Jenna Woo]

I feel like I would get the test just to like shove it in his face.

[Morgan]

I'm completely broken down and hurt over this. Our entire relationship he's been so sweet and Rational. This is completely unlike him. If he had just calmly asked for a paternity test to begin with, I would have been hurt, but I guess I could have understood the concerns. Our daughter looks nothing like him, but I don't think our relationship can survive this. Even when I proved to him I wasn't lying. Should I go through with the test or just cut my losses here and raise her alone?

[Jenna Woo]

I would do both. Want to shove it in his face to. Don't go back with him.

[Morgan]

You have to get this done now.

[Jenna Woo]

Yeah. No, no, for sure. Just because, like, what do you mean? It's. Mm.

[Morgan]

Genetics are crazy. Yeah.

[Jenna Woo]

I was like, I don't know that much about genetics, but if there's family.

[Morgan]

History, I mean, you have your ethnicity, you have your family tree. You know what your genetics could potentially be, and, like, you're not. You're not surprised. Like, you have other family members that share these features, and, like, it's very clear that OP Understands it. So it probably was a conversation before, and it's clearly a conversation now. So, yeah, the. The fact that he just, like, storms out, goes home, packs his stuff, leaves, ignores.

[Jenna Woo]

He's pissed that it doesn't look like. But it's also giving, like. I mean, it feels racist to me.

[Morgan]

It does feel racist. And to just jump from that to that, like, babies look so different when they're born. That could change.

[Jenna Woo]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

Some babies are born with bright blue eyes, and then their eyes turn completely different colors. Alejandra, when she was born, was pale. Pale. Oh, really, really pale to where I forget. She's talked about it on an episode, but her mom was like, whose baby is that?

[Jenna Woo]

How did this happen?

[Morgan]

Because her mom is a Latina. Like, so she. She was confused. She's like, my. Why is that baby so white? Like, they called her Casper when she was little because she was super pale. And I'm pretty sure she had, like, red hair.

[Jenna Woo]

Red hair.

[Morgan]

That's why. I know. So it's like, you never know what you're going to get. That little thing was just smooshed up in a. In a belly for nine months.

[Jenna Woo]

Popped out.

[Morgan]

Give her a break. Can be flat. Like, they can come out with cone heads.

[Jenna Woo]

They're not looking their best.

[Morgan]

You don't know what you're going to get. You got to give it some time to, like, you know, cook out of the oven.

[Jenna Woo]

I. Yeah, I think a bit like, the first view of a baby when they come out is not what they're gonna look like. Even in a couple months.

[Morgan]

No. Have you seen that trend on TikTok where I deleted my TikTok? Oh, good for you. Well, there was this trend, and it was mom's parents sharing pictures of their baby. And they were like, I thought my kid was so cute when they were born, but, wow, was I like, mom blind or whatever they call it?

[Jenna Woo]

Sure. Yeah.

[Morgan]

And cute picture, and you swipe, and it's an alien. It does not look like the same kid.

[Jenna Woo]

Yeah, babies are. Babies are kind of ugly sometimes.

[Morgan]

Babies are.

[Jenna Woo]

Babies are ugly.

[Morgan]

They're something. They're something.

[Jenna Woo]

Yeah. So to have that initial reaction of just, like. I don't know, just to accuse it, like, he just wanted a reason to get, like, he wanted out from parenting.

[Morgan]

It seems like that. And imagine, like, even if this is the case, like, this is still your partner of multiple years. You planned on getting married. They're postpartum, and you're just gonna do this to them. And granted, if there was cheating, I know you know he's hurting, but don't jump to conclusions before you have all the information. Like, just take a breath.

[Jenna Woo]

Yeah, but don't you think, like, if she had cheated and she was prepared for the baby to come out looking like the man she cheated with, it.

[Morgan]

Would have gone differently. Like, she would have maybe been like, don't be there when the baby's born.

[Jenna Woo]

Yeah. Like, she would have been mentally prepared for such a thing.

[Morgan]

Like, you heard that happening, though.

[Jenna Woo]

But then that story. Was it on Patreon about the guy, the woman calling her husband, and she, like, heard him having sex on the train, and he was just like, yeah, no, no, no.

[Morgan]

Oh, my God.

[Jenna Woo]

She could have done the same thing.

[Morgan]

But people. Yeah. Well, this episode was twists and turns.

[Jenna Woo]

But I believe her. I don't think she cheated.

[Morgan]

Let's. Let's see what the update says. But my vote is you got to get the test done and then be done.

[Jenna Woo]

I think. Yeah, you just do it to prove your point and show him that he is an asshole for doing what he's doing. But, like, he's out for sure.

[Morgan]

Yeah. There is an edit on this post. I decided to get the test done. I'll update you all when I get the results. I'm still angry, but I guess I understand him a bit better now.

[Jenna Woo]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. We don't understand him at all.

[Morgan]

Yeah, a lot of people were like, hey, his feels are. Are valid. And, you know, it's hard when a baby comes out not looking like you.

[Jenna Woo]

I mean, I could understand an initial shock of being like, hey, this baby doesn't look anything like me but like to jump to cheat? I don't know. That doesn't feel right.

[Morgan]

Even if you jump to cheating, it's a huge overreaction to abandon your partner in the hospital and move your stuff out when they get home from the.

[Jenna Woo]

Hospital because you have to until the test is done. I think you still have to assume it is your kid.

[Morgan]

A rational person probably would him.

[Jenna Woo]

He doesn't seem rational yet.

[Morgan]

He seems dumb, doesn't even stupid, doesn't even know how a big punnet square works.

[Jenna Woo]

I don't think I do either but like I know it better than he does.

[Morgan]

Lot of other comments OP does reply to a couple of them. Someone goes, you're going to need a DNA test for child support so you may as well get one now. What you choose to do about the relationship is up to you, but you're going to need the child support. And OP goes, wow, I've been so caught up in this whole drama and taking care of baby, I hadn't even thought about child support. You're right. I'll get the test done if only to make sure baby gets the best life possible.

[Jenna Woo]

Yes.

[Morgan]

Someone else goes, people are surprisingly ignorant of how genetics work anyways. Get the paternity test just for his peace of mind, but understand that your relationship is irreparably broken and that he may sadly never show your daughter the sort of love or affection a father should show his child. This is a heartbreaking situation. I feel most for the baby and you of course, but that little girl is going to face a lot of challenges in life looking like a black child to white parents. Talk to your more black looking relatives about this and do research on how to talk to your daughter about her ancestry and prepare her for for some of the more stupid, bigoted, ridiculous things people are bound to say.

[Jenna Woo]

And I hate that that's so stupid.

[Morgan]

It's just disgusting.

[Jenna Woo]

Like who cares?

[Morgan]

Just people are people. Like what? I don't the hierarchy and like it's still a thing all over the world and like certain like like class systems are still a thing places and it's just like it's. I want to get to a place where world peace like is actually like a thing. It's crazy.

[Jenna Woo]

Yeah, we gotta, we have a lot of changes to do before we get peace happening but yeah, world peace sounds great.

[Morgan]

World peace love it. So we do get an update. Thank God comes five days later. Hey guys. First off I want to say thank you to all the original commenters. Who helped me see my significant other's side and calmed me down enough to take the test. Well, the results are in and of course she's his. The whole process was absolutely ridiculous. I got an appointment with the doctor and texted significant other the time and location. He didn't answer but showed up and the entire time he didn't say one word to me and he didn't want to touch or even look at baby and left as soon as they'd taken his sample, despite the doctor asking him to stay so we could go over a few things. Once he left, I just broke down and I must say the doctor was really nice. Didn't judge me or accuse me of anything, just calmly went over how the test works and told me babies are often born darker than they actually end up being. Baby was an absolute champ, barely fussed when they drew her blood. I got the results yesterday. I texted significant other the news and asked if he wanted to come over and open it with me. After almost half an hour he finally responded yes, he'd like to come over. I'm thinking he either sent it while on his way or or he's not staying very far away because he was here in about 15 minutes. Well, we opened it and read the positive test together. He turned white like a sheet and then just started bawling. I had to shush him because he was crying so loudly and finally I got an explanation for his flip out. I mentioned in a comment on the old post that he was an only child to very old parents. His dad died a few years ago and his mom lives alone a few hours drive from us. I haven't met her often but she seemed pleasant enough. Turns out she hates me, absolutely hates my guts and always has. I had no idea about this. She always acted kind of snobby, sure, but I had no idea she disliked me this much. When significant other called her to tell her the good news eight months back when we discovered the pregnancy, she started crying. He never told me this. And as the months passed she continued being super negative about the whole thing and saying she doubted the baby was actually his. I was below them. Poor people cheat because they're raised in a fucked up environment. What the fuck? And instead of talking to me about this significant other kept silent while constantly doubting me more and more. Baby being black just put the final nail in the coffin that his mother was right and I was a good for nothing cheating bitch. After telling me all of this, we just sat in silence for a while.

[Jenna Woo]

We're just taking his mother's accusation with no proof or anything to heart like that. I'm so confused.

[Morgan]

Also, fuck her. Yeah, poor people cheat because they're raised in a fucked up environment.

[Jenna Woo]

That was like that was her reasoning. I don't understand.

[Morgan]

Okay lady. Finally he asked if he could hold the baby. I was still angry as hell, but decided that holding her was his right. He's her father after all. I went and got her from her crib, let him have her, and he started crying again, which scared her and she started crying too. So they were just sitting there bawling together for a while. Finally he stopped, handed her back, and asked if he could come home.

[Jenna Woo]

No, don't do it.

[Morgan]

I was kind of taken aback. I didn't expect him to just flat out ask that already. I laid out everything I said in the last thread. How insanely disrespectful and childish he'd been, how he'd horribly broken my trust, hadn't talked to me about his mom's poisonous and ignorant comments, completely ignored me for three days, not telling me where he was or if he's even alive. And then he just waltzes in and wants to start living here again. I told him if he ever wanted to have some inkling of a chance of mending the relationship, we had to go to couples therapy asap. From now on, he will answer my calls and messages unless there's an emergency. He will not be staying here for a while, and finally he needs to tell his mom to back the fuck off. She will not be seeing Baby until she apologizes to me in person. He immediately agreed and finally told me how sorry he was for this whole fiasco. I'm not sure if I can forgive him for this, but I'm gonna try. We had an amazing life before this and I hope that with a lot of work we can have it again. Significant Other also finally told me that he was staying in a hostel, but it's not very expensive so he can stay there for a while longer.

[Jenna Woo]

Good.

[Morgan]

Baby is doing great considering how many stress hormones she must have been drinking from me these last few days. Her hair is falling out, but the doctor told me it was normal and babies often lose most or all of their hair when they're born. Okay, thank you for all your help on the last thread. My mom agreed with many of you and thinks I'm absolutely nuts for trying to work things out, but I think it'd be best for everyone if we at least give it a shot, especially Baby. Too Long didn't read I'm Not a lying whore. Cause mom is a bitch. We're trying to work things out.

[Jenna Woo]

That was really good. I really liked that.

[Morgan]

And that's the bottom line.

[Jenna Woo]

I'm a nut. Okay. Okay. I was about. I'm like, not on his side at all. I don't care, like, why he did what he did. I'm like, there's not really any redeeming qualities. However, I like that she put her foot down. She has very, like, strong boundaries. And I understand wanting to make it work because it would really suck to raise a kid alone.

[Morgan]

It's definitely harder. And I mean, he's got his answers now. There's no question going forward. There's no holding anything over her head because baby's yours, dude.

[Jenna Woo]

Nothing to.

[Morgan]

This is just genetics.

[Jenna Woo]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

And you now have it all out. In terms of the mom, would I be able to forgive this? No. But I'm not in her shoes, so.

[Jenna Woo]

You know, I would say no too. But if I was in the relationship, you know, it'd be a lot harder to just, like, cut it off.

[Morgan]

It would be. I mean, I've seen a lot of really bad, toxic relationships in my life and a lot of them growing up. So it was, you know, for me, it was. It was hard, like, finding out what a healthy relationship was because I'd never seen it really demonstrated for me as a kid.

[Jenna Woo]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

And it's hard because I. I think, you know, people find reasons to stay and it's.

[Jenna Woo]

It's easy to.

[Morgan]

It's easy to find those reasons. It really is. So for her to be strong and at least say, like, no, you're not coming home for doing couples therapy.

[Jenna Woo]

Her boundaries are great.

[Morgan]

Her boundaries are really good. And I commend that because how easy would it have been for her to be like, yeah, move in because I need help, New mom, postpartum, Dealing with that on your own.

[Jenna Woo]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

And it does make sense. Like, if your relationship was amazing, perfect, everything was great up until this one granted. Huge thing. You wouldn't like, look back and be like, rose colored glasses. I want to get back to that. We can get there. His mom was the problem. His mom was the real problem.

[Jenna Woo]

Easy thing to like, push off to the mom.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Jenna Woo]

I still hate him. She should consider divorce. I think she should think about that a little bit more.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Jenna Woo]

But it's not my decision.

[Morgan]

No, no. I'm curious what you all think about this one. What you would do if you were in OP's shoes. And OP, if you're out there listening, I'd love another update. This original post is 10 years old now. Oh, 10 years old.

[Jenna Woo]

Oh, I don't know if we're getting an update.

[Morgan]

You never know.

[Jenna Woo]

You never know. That'd be cool.

[Morgan]

They could be out there so long ago. Yeah, they could be out there like, hey, yeah, we've got a 10 year old and we're doing great. We've had two kids after. Like you never know. So op, if you're out there and you hear your story, let us know. Let us know. This episode of two Hot Takes is presented by State Farm. Whether you're debating scrolling on your phone for hours or rewatching your comfort comedy movie for the tenth time, or both, choices are important when it comes to choosing coverage. A State Farm agent can help you find options that are right for you. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there Discover Ralph's Club New York the new fragrance by Ralph Lauren with black currant, vanilla and sandalwood. This scent embodies the sensuality and confidence of Usher. Like the city that never sleeps, this masculine Fragrance lasts for 12 hours. Ralph's Club New York Ralph Lauren shop now@macy's.com but moving along to one last one for us here. Okay, this is. This is an interesting one. Threw me for a loop when I first read it.

[Jenna Woo]

Scary when you smile before when you say you smile and you say this is interesting.

[Morgan]

It's coming from Best of Redditor Updates titled I found out how my roommate treats my cats when I'm not home.

[Jenna Woo]

Oh I'm stressed.

[Morgan]

I, 24 female, live with my cousin, 30 male. I have three cats, one adult cat and two 12 week kittens. And whenever I am home he will be mean to them in a very joking and lighthearted way. He'll call them names fat ass, dumbass, etc. But it's in that bullying as a love language type way. And I've never been afraid of him actually mistreating my cats, especially because they clearly adore him. He plays and roughhouses with them, he pets them, but he never gets all lovey dovey the way I do with them. Or so I thought. I live in a two story townhouse with my bedroom being on the second floor and I always keep my door open so that the cats can go in and out. Yesterday morning I'd woken up but not gotten out of bed yet and my two kittens were playing on the landing just outside of my bedroom door. I hear my cousin start to walk up the stairs and I stayed as quiet as possible. I knew he thought I wasn't home, because when I am home, he always calls up to ask me if he can come up. I have given him permission to go in my room when I'm not home to play with my cats. My door was cracked open about a foot, and I see him reach his arm. He says, scoop, and grabs a kitten. Then I hear about a minute straight of kissy sounds and baby talk. Mmm. I'm just quietly watching from my bed, trying not to let out a giggle, when he suddenly stops, slow turns, and makes stunned eye contact with me through the crack of my door. When he realized I heard slash saw the whole thing, he got embarrassed and said, quote, oh, I. I saw them running around up here and thought I'd come play with them. I laughed and said it was totally fine. But he retreated back downstairs to put his tough guy Persona back on. The photo above is one he just sent me. Having a cuddle session with baby George Tldr, my male roommate pretends to be indifferent about my cats, but secretly baby talks and loves on them when I'm not around.

[Jenna Woo]

As you should.

[Morgan]

And then the kitty picture. It's like the cat laying on his lap. And he texted this person and said, he's been here like this for 20 minutes.

[Jenna Woo]

Very cute.

[Morgan]

He's so sweet. OP responded, so sweet. So adorable.

[Jenna Woo]

I mean, how can you not love a cat? Multiple cats, kittens, Kittens. So cute.

[Morgan]

Oh, my gosh. Okay, remind me to tell you this, because I do. Well, I'll just tell you now because I might forget. So the other day, we're at the farm working, like. And you guys. I went from our bachelor bachelorette trip that Justin and I took. We went to Minnesota straight after that for two weeks and just worked on the farm two weeks straight. From the time we woke up until, like, midnight 1:00am that's crazy. I am sore in places I did not know existed. I slept for, like, 24 hours yesterday to, like, basically recoup after this trip. I was. I was so wiped. But my grandma pulls up, and we're sitting there, and we're like, oh, what is that noise? And she had. She had made a comment. She's like, I think there's a cat here. Like, on the farm. Like, a cat must have showed up. And all of a sudden we're, like, planting stuff, and I'm like, I think I hear a cat. And I'm thinking, Justin's punking us. I, like, assume he's in the woods meowing, and I hear this cat noise.

[Jenna Woo]

Is he really good at meow sounds?

[Morgan]

I had no idea. But in my head, I'm like, we're planting these planters kind of in the parking area of the farm. My grandma's car is nearby. And I'm like, grandma, that. That meowing is coming from your car. It's coming from your car. I open all her doors. I pop the.

[Jenna Woo]

Is it in the engine?

[Morgan]

We're looking everywhere in the engine. We can't find anything. Sure enough, my mom calls me a couple hours later. You were right. There's a cat in grandma's engine.

[Jenna Woo]

How does that happen?

[Morgan]

This kitten must have been hitchhiking with her for at least a day or two.

[Jenna Woo]

How does it survive in the engine?

[Morgan]

I don't know. Cause it gets hot in there.

[Jenna Woo]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

And my mom.

[Jenna Woo]

How far was she driving?

[Morgan]

She doesn't go too far.

[Jenna Woo]

Okay.

[Morgan]

She's 81, so, you know, she's doing great. She goes to, like, church and, like, you know, bops around.

[Jenna Woo]

She's not taking road trips.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Jenna Woo]

Okay.

[Morgan]

But my mom was like, it must have been stuck in there for a while. Cause it's pretty skinny. I'm like, oh, my God. So we don't know where she picked it up. And my mom.

[Jenna Woo]

It picked itself up.

[Morgan]

My mom, like, really tried to get it out of there and, like, brought out cans of tuna and. Yeah, all sorts of stuff.

[Jenna Woo]

So is it got out your grandma adopting the.

[Morgan]

Oh, I wanted to adopt it, but it got out and then ran away? No. So it's out there somewhere.

[Jenna Woo]

Oh, that's a bummer to that story. That's a bummer ending.

[Morgan]

Hopefully it sticks around the cat. I thought. I literally thought the cat distribution system had finally worked for me. Lo and behold, it runs away.

[Jenna Woo]

No, I'm. That's actually the most disappointing, heartbreaking story ending to a story I've heard all day.

[Morgan]

Well, we have an update on this one, though. Oh, perfect. So it might. It might shape up. Okay.

[Jenna Woo]

Okay.

[Morgan]

Why do you look so traumatized?

[Jenna Woo]

Because the ending to your story was sad.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Jenna Woo]

And then you said, shape up. I don't know. I thought you were gonna go somewhere else with it.

[Morgan]

My roommate killed my cat.

[Jenna Woo]

You never know. You said this was ups and downs. And we're up right now. We're super up and down.

[Morgan]

When it's up and it's up, then it's up and it's stuck. Have you seen the cardi b trial clips?

[Jenna Woo]

I think I'm offline.

[Morgan]

Oh, my God. I'm gonna send you a recap. So good. So this update is coming two and a half months later. A while back, I made a post about how I caught my roommate baby talking. My cats and I have a new adorable development. A couple of months ago, I went on a family vacation, so my roommate took care of my cats while I was gone. During that week, he accidentally started a new routine with them.

[Jenna Woo]

Oh.

[Morgan]

Each time he would fill their food bowls, he'd stand there and give them pets and scratches while they ate. After a couple of days, they decided that this is now a requirement. Only with him, though, they don't make me do this now. Every day when he gets home, they run to the door to excitedly greet him, and then they run to their food bowls. They'll sit there and yell at him until he goes over and give them their pets while they eat. The funniest part of it is that they free feed. I just keep their bowls full so they can eat whenever they are hungry. I know some people frown upon that, but with my work schedule, it's too unpredictable to keep them on a consistent feeding schedule. And none of them are overweight, so it works for us. Even though they have constant access to food, they'll wait for him to get home from work to have dinner so that he can give them their scratches.

[Jenna Woo]

That's so sweet.

[Morgan]

So sweet.

[Jenna Woo]

I love kitties so much.

[Morgan]

And we ended on a happy note today.

[Jenna Woo]

That's really nice. Thank you for that.

[Morgan]

I know. I think a comment that really has stuck with me lately is on the Angela episode, someone came over. They were a smosh viewer. It was their first time with two hot takes.

[Jenna Woo]

Oh.

[Morgan]

And they were like, damn, these stories are a lot darker over here.

[Jenna Woo]

You gotta be careful here.

[Morgan]

Watch out. Watch out, guys.

[Jenna Woo]

You know what? I'm immune now.

[Morgan]

Are you?

[Jenna Woo]

I think so. Yeah.

[Morgan]

You've edited a lot.

[Jenna Woo]

And I'm. I also have the paranoia brain. Like, I'm like, oh, what's. They're cheating. Someone tells me something. Oh, they must be cheating.

[Morgan]

Okay, do you want a happy update? And again. I know, I know. We've talked a lot about Patreon on this episode. Just encouraging you guys all to come over because there's three full bonus episodes a month now.

[Jenna Woo]

It is so fun over there.

[Morgan]

It's so fun. So we had an episode. It was me, Justin, and Lauren, and there was a story about this woman who was writing in after her husband accused her of killing his sister.

[Jenna Woo]

Oh, yeah.

[Morgan]

Someone sent me the update. The last update that I couldn't find. She ended up. And I need to, like, patch this in for my Patreon people. She ended up Getting into the icloud, went through all of his messages and couldn't find anything.

[Jenna Woo]

So we don't even know what the.

[Morgan]

So we have no idea.

[Jenna Woo]

So he was just making up stuff?

[Morgan]

Yeah, we initially on, like, Patreon, we thought incest. Like, a lot of people were like, they must be hooking up. Like, these messages would be really bad if he thinks that OP would kill his sister over finding them. But OP didn't find any messages of the sort. So even more confusion now.

[Jenna Woo]

Well, what if he deleted? He deleted. That's what I'm saying. Because, like, maybe there's a way to go, like, see deleted things, but maybe not from there.

[Morgan]

I know I'm gonna be doing a full update episode very soon from stories we've read in the past that have since had updates to updates we might have missed or didn't have access to. But someone had a screenshot and sent me. Whoa, it's coming. It's very, very hard to put together. And the last time I did it, we kind of gave a quick recap of the story, and some people didn't like that. And so people were like, if you could just include the reading and then read the update again. But that's a lot of editing to put on you.

[Jenna Woo]

Yeah, guys, don't make me do that.

[Morgan]

Don't do that to Jenna. So I'm still working out the kinks of doing it. And also, just finding these updates is really tedious. When. Sure, we've read. I'm on. I'm on my master, like, master Reddit spreadsheet that I have, and on the stories tab, and it hasn't been updated in quite some time. There's over scared. There's over 1300 stories we've read.

[Jenna Woo]

Yeah. I'm not going to lie. Every time I edit, a story goes in one ear, out the other. Well, I couldn't tell you.

[Morgan]

It really trips me out when everyone's like, you've read this, You've read this? And then I search it in my. My document that has all the links and all the titles, and I can't find it. So then I start going crazy, and I'm like.

[Jenna Woo]

No, I feel like if you bring up the story, I would remember it, but, like, if you would be like, what were the stories last week? I don't know.

[Morgan]

Couldn't tell you.

[Jenna Woo]

Couldn't tell you.

[Morgan]

Couldn't tell you. Just enjoy the ride, my friends. But that's all I got for this episode of Two Hot Takes. Thank you so, so, so much for being here. And head over to Patreon if you want even more content. Price for the top tier did go down. You get a whole extra bonus episode every month.

[Jenna Woo]

And yeah, you do.

[Morgan]

It's been good. It's. It's been really good. This month is going to be wild. I'm like knocking them all out before the wedding and traveling for a mini moon after. So it's going to be good. It's going to be good. But until next time, bye bye, guys. Bundle and safe. With Expedia, you were made to follow your favorite band. And from the front row, we were made to quit quietly. Save you more Expedia Made to travel Savings vary and subject to availability. Flight inclusive packages are atoll protected.