251: Am I Overreacting?!

Summary

Two Hot Takes – Episode 251: Am I Overreacting?!

Host: Morgan Absher
Co-host: Justin
Release Date: January 15, 2026

---

Episode Overview

This episode of Two Hot Takes features Morgan Absher and co-host Justin as they explore Reddit threads and listener stories centered around the theme: "Am I Overreacting?!" They dissect some of the juiciest and wildest user submissions from relationship quandaries to workplace drama, offering hot takes, empathy, and humor along the way.

The episode covers a milestone in Morgan’s podcasting journey, reactions to pop culture moments (including the Golden Globes introducing a Best Podcast category), and four Reddit stories ranging from grieving widowers to shocking family secrets and workplace sagas—with a detour into one of Reddit's most bizarre cult classics.

---

Main Themes & Highlights

• Celebrating milestones in the podcasting community and Morgan’s career
• Dissecting hot takes on award shows and podcast legitimacy
• Deep dives into AITA, relationship, and workplace Reddit stories
• Navigating tough situations: grief, family secrets, betrayal, and office absurdity
• A now-legendary story about a man in love with a giant imaginary cockroach

---

Key Segments & Summaries

---

1. Podcasting Milestones & Golden Globes Discussion

[01:15 – 08:27]

Discussion Points

• Morgan reconnects with Justin after the podcast's holiday hiatus.
• Morgan shares her experience as a correspondent at the Golden Globes’ Spotify party and aspiring to meet Amy Poehler.
• Debate: The "Best Podcast" Golden Globes category win by Amy Poehler.
  • Morgan: Inspired by Amy Poehler’s interviewing style.
  • Justin: “She’s amazing... I do understand some people being like, she just started, or it would have been nice if it went to... a podcaster who built the forum...” ([03:47])
• Reflection on the state of Hollywood and podcasting’s rise post-writers strike.

Quotes

• "It almost validates podcasting as being this medium." – Morgan ([04:27])
• “People were commenting, and they’re like, Morgan, you manifested this.” – Morgan ([02:29])

---

2. Segment: Am I Overreacting? (Reddit Stories)

Story 1: Boyfriend Won’t Remove His Late Wife’s Ring

[09:21 – 18:47]

Summary:
A listener’s boyfriend still wears his deceased wife’s wedding ring, causing tension as their relationship deepens.

Discussion Highlights:

• Both hosts empathize with both parties.
• Justin: “This is hard because I don’t think either of them are wrong.” ([11:52])
• Morgan: “He’s just not ready. Grief is not a linear thing.” ([14:17])
• Consensus: It's an issue of compatibility, not blame.
• Reddit comments referenced, including insight from widows.

Notable Quotes:

• “He’s not your boyfriend, he’s her husband.” (Reddit comment read at [15:52])
• “I definitely wouldn’t move in… if you care for him… keep on dating. But if you can’t move past the ring issue, then I think you are just incompatible.” – Morgan ([17:53])

---

Story 2: Exposing a Sister’s Cruel "Burn List" Finsta

[21:14 – 33:34]

Summary:
A woman finds her sister maintains a secret Instagram where she ranks her fiancé’s family by who she hopes will die first, then exposes it to the fiancé.

Discussion Highlights:

• Justin admits to once having a “dark sense of humor” online but finds the sister’s behavior extreme, especially at 29.
• Morgan: “You’re giving psychopath… hoping his grandma dies so you can get the ring. Psychopath.” ([25:37])
• Both agree this is “breakup worthy” but debate the approach to revealing the secret.
• Emphasis on knowing who you’re marrying.

Notable Quotes:

• “Mean girls shit—burn book to burn list.” (Reddit commentary, [29:13])
• “She went on Canva and made a pyramid. It’s giving Dance Moms.” – Morgan ([31:56])

Timestamp Highlights

• [23:44] Story Introduction
• [27:50] Differentiating finsta/group chat/mean-spiritedness
• [31:56] Canva pyramid/Dance Moms reference

---

Story 3: Couple Discovers They Are First Cousins Before Their Wedding

[34:25 – 70:59]

Summary:
A woman and her fiancé, after years together, discover their mothers are estranged twins—making them first cousins—just months before their wedding.

Discussion Highlights:

• Both hosts staggered by the real-world implications: legal, ethical, emotional.
• Justin: “I don’t think you can get past this. They certainly can never have biological children together.” ([44:41])
• Deep dive into family history, generational trauma, and possible undisclosed abuse.
• Morgan: “I do think you have to go low contact, if not no contact… pursue other means of having kids. But we’re in so deep it wouldn’t change anything for us.” ([64:18])
• Justin: “If they do stay together, it’s not their fault… I want to know what they end up doing so badly.” ([49:03])
• OP’s dramatic update includes violence from her mother and acceptance from her fiancé’s family— unprecedented layers of family and psychological tension.

Memorable Moments:

• [46:53]: Historical examples (Einstein, Poe) and changing attitudes toward cousin marriage
• [48:53]: “So in one situation you’re hiding a secret, in another you’re cut off from your family… This is a no-win.” – Justin

---

3. Work Stories & “Nightmare Fuel”

Story 4: I Had My Coworker Arrested for Stealing My Chair

[74:02 – 79:30]

Summary:
A worker brings in an expensive chair, has it stolen by a coworker, and calls the police, resulting in the thief’s arrest (and their own firing).

Discussion Highlights:

• Both agree it was an overreaction, even if justified in principle.
• Justin: “At first with the title, I was like, okay, this is definitely overreacting. Then they were telling the story. I was like, you know what, I’m on their side. Then it got to the end and I was like, nope, I’m off again…” ([78:57])
• Workplace chair theft: a thing?

Notable Quotes:

• “It’s too much drama for a chair.” – Morgan ([79:15])
• “At what point do you also drop lower than their level?” – Justin ([79:25])

---

Story 5: Coworker Claims We’re Married—We’re Not Even Dating

[84:00 – 99:23]

Summary:
A woman returns from leave to discover a coworker has convinced the office they're married.

Discussion Highlights:

• Creepy, violating, and professionally damaging.
• Morgan and Justin support the OP’s response and critique workplace inaction.

Notable Quotes:

• “He’s publicly saying this… She’s trying to privately handle it.” – Justin ([86:21])
• “I think the conversations maybe would be fine. But the kill list is still where it gets tricky.” – Morgan ([31:22], about previous story but echoes workplace rumor absurdity here)

Timestamp Highlights

• [87:00]: OP’s confrontation in the break room
• [88:03]: Op’s update: retaliatory workplace dynamics

---

4. Reddit Lore Detour: Ogtha the Imaginary Cockroach Wife

[102:18 – 128:41]

Segment Summary:
Morgan introduces Reddit legend “Ogtha”—a poster who reveals he can only be intimate by imagining his partner is a giant intelligent roach named Ogtha (inspired by Kafka’s The Metamorphosis). The obsession deepens across years—he “marries” Ogtha, introduces her to his coworkers and parents, and describes her as his life partner.

Hosts’ Reaction:

• Justin oscillates between fascination, empathy, and horror, calls it “the romance of a century… the most faithful a man’s ever been to anybody.” ([107:49])
• Morgan: “I would be so distraught and grossed out if… my partner told me, ‘every time we have sex, I envision you’re a roach.’” ([109:41])
• Both agree the poster is likely struggling with serious mental health issues.
• Discussion about niche kinks, therapy, VR, and the uniqueness of Ogtha’s legacy in Reddit lore.

Notable Quotes

• “He keeps thinking it’ll go that way for him...” – Justin ([122:36])
• “For me, it is Ogtha forever.” (Ogtha poster, read at [116:53])

Timestamp Highlights

• [104:04]: Story introduction
• [106:50]: Depth of delusion revealed
• [111:40]: Update—“I married her... I’ve not had a real girlfriend again since...”
• [121:29]: Sidetrack about how VR/future AI could bring Ogtha “to life”

---

Memorable Moments & Quotes (With Timestamps)

• “I think she came up with a good compromise… Actually, it is normal to be jealous of a dead woman.” – Justin ([11:52])
• “He’s not your boyfriend, he’s her husband.” (Reddit user, read at [15:52])
• “She went on Canva and made a pyramid. It’s giving Dance Moms.” – Morgan ([31:56])
• "If I were to get realistic about it, I'd be like… something really off there." – Justin, on Ogtha ([126:30])

---

Notable Audience Engagement Points

• Morgan encourages listeners to submit work stories and “weirdest kinks/fetishes” for future episodes: “Please, if you’ve experienced something goofy along these lines, please put it in the comments.” ([127:37])
• Repeated curiosity for updates from story submitters: “OP, if you’re out there, would like an update.” ([20:29])

---

Episode Structure Map (Timestamps)

• [01:02] – Catching up & Podcasting milestones
• [09:21] – Reddit Relationship Story 1: Late wife’s ring
• [21:14] – Reddit AITA: Sister’s “burn book” about in-laws
• [34:25] – Reddit Bombshell: Engaged couple are first cousins, with update ([50:36])
• [74:02] – Workplace Reddit: Chair theft turns criminal
• [84:00] – Workplace Reddit: Coworker claims marriage
• [102:18] – “Ogtha” Reddit Lore Detour
• [129:19] – Episode close

---

Overall Tone

Casual, irreverent, candid, and empathetic—ranging from dead-serious to laugh-out-loud, with signature “hot takes,” genuine audience engagement, and memorable pop-culture references.

---

“Banger after banger today. Let me know what you want to see... And if you’ve got a weird story, tell us.” – Morgan ([128:41])

---

Bottom Line

This episode perfectly encapsulates Two Hot Takes’ blend of unfiltered advice, offbeat humor, and genuine curiosity about the complexities (and absurdities) of modern relationships, work life, and human psychology. Whether you want agony aunt realness, audience confessionals, or a crash course in viral Reddit folklore, you’ll find it here.

---

Transcript

[Morgan]

This episode is brought to you by Intuit TurboTax. Doing your taxes the old school stress spiral way. Endless paperwork, confusion and unsure if you're even doing it right. Yeah, we're leaving that in the past with TurboTax. Get matched with a dedicated full service expert who can jump in and handle everything for you even as soon as today it's the update tax finally needed. Way easier, way smoother and your TurboTax expert will still get every dollar you deserve. Visit TurboTax.com today. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Just like choosing a carrot cake recipe, if you know, you know State Farm has options to choose from to help you find coverage that best fits your needs. Sounds a lot easier than a coin flip. So talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state. Here we go.

[Justin]

Oh my God. Getting back in the swing of things.

[Morgan]

Back in the saddle again. We haven't recorded in here since like January. No, my God, we're in January, right? Since December, like 14th.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

I did one little episode in Minnesota to make sure you guys had something for New Year's. But other than that, we have been on hiatus.

[Justin]

I can't believe I'm here with Golden Globes correspondent.

[Morgan]

Oh, shut up.

[Justin]

That was so cool.

[Morgan]

It was so cool. For those that don't know, I hosted like a mini mic on a carpet for the Hollywood Reporter and like Spotify, their pre Golden Globes party and it was insane. Like I. I've never been able to do stuff like that. Like that other level of the party. Like obviously Spotify invites me to wrapped every year. But like this was so. It was just a different level. And so like seeing people like Nina Dobrev in person and I'm like, I'm like, nina, will you give a hot take? And she's like, no, sorry, it's just a different level. And I'm like, she's so much prettier in person. I think that's the thing about a lot of these people. They don't look how they look on photos or on the screens. They look better.

[Justin]

Yeah. And they already look good on screen.

[Morgan]

And they look good and it's just like you see them in person, you're like, oh no, you're an angel. Like, what the hell?

[Justin]

That's such a cool milestone.

[Morgan]

I literally. People were commenting, and they're like, morgan, you manifested this. Like, you talked about wanting to do this, and here you are. And I'm like, that's right. Okay.

[Justin]

We need to be, like, writing down our milestones in 2026. I feel like, because it's so easy to forget the cool things that happen and, like, the good moments.

[Morgan]

I know. We should do, like, a little jar.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

Like, okay, I did this. Write it down, put it in the jar, and at the end and have.

[Justin]

Like, 20, 26 on it. And then, like, add to the jar. And then at the end of the year, like, read them all back.

[Morgan]

I like that.

[Justin]

Wait, also. That'd be really good. They did the first. For the first time, the Golden Globes had, like, a best podcast category. Yes. Which is super cool.

[Morgan]

Really cool. Amy Poehler won.

[Justin]

I saw some hot takes about that.

[Morgan]

Yeah. I think a lot of people did. I personally, I love it. I. I went and saw her podcast live.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

And she had Maya Rudolph on. And, like, I don't know if I've seen anyone interview in the way Amy does. Like, she is so, so good. And, like, something I kind of picked up from her. Watching her is, like, be okay not getting an answer and letting the conversation just flow. Like, I feel like I learned some interview techniques watching her live show, but she's so, so good with everyone.

[Justin]

Yeah. I mean, she's amazing. She's so funny. She's so witty. She's so smart. And, like, I love her podcast. It's really good.

[Morgan]

It's really good.

[Justin]

I do understand some people being like, she just started, or it would have been nice if it went to, like, so someone who kind of is a podcaster and, like, built the podcasting forum rather than, like, a famous person who then made a podcast. Yeah. Which, like, isn't on her.

[Morgan]

No.

[Justin]

It's like. And I don't. I don't even listen to Call her daddy, but I. I could. I do think that that's a podcast that really, like, converted so many people to listening to podcasts.

[Morgan]

Put podcasting on the map for a lot of women especially.

[Justin]

So I. I can see why there's some discourse. All great options, though. It's exciting that that's, like, becoming a thing.

[Morgan]

I know it almost like, it validates podcasting as being this medium. And I could talk about this all day. I'm like, there's so much going on in, like, Hollywood and podcasting and how Hollywood since the writers strike has, like, it's kind of fizzling here. There's not a lot of jobs and people are struggling, and so they're now turning to these other medias, and so it's really cool. But one thing I did see about Amy winning is like, Amy, this woman, you know, she's been podcasting for 10 months and beats out her ex husband, a guy who's been podcasting for years. And I was like, who's her ex husband? Will Arnett. He has the podcast Smart List with Jason Bateman.

[Justin]

Oh, that is a pretty big podcast.

[Morgan]

It's you.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

I'm like, okay, Amy.

[Justin]

Wow.

[Morgan]

My goal is to meet her this year. She walked right past me at the Spotify party, and I'm just like, with Asia?

[Justin]

Oh, the one you went to last week? Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy. I mean, it's gonna keep happening. I know it's gonna keep happening.

[Morgan]

I know two people that I met and I didn't. I had not watched the show yet, but two people I met are Robbie and Nadine from Heated Rivalry.

[Justin]

Oh, I haven't seen that yet, but I know that you just did.

[Morgan]

It's so much more than people are giving it credit for. Like, I wanna go to bat and just, like, fight.

[Justin]

Cause you were sobbing.

[Morgan]

I was. The first four episodes. I'm like, I thought this was supposed to be good. I'm fudgeing, balling, and I'm. Yeah, I'm on my period right now, so, like, watching that, I'm like, I think if I watch it when I'm ovulating, maybe it'll be a different experience. But, like, I was. I was so sad, you guys. But, like, everyone, like, all the interviews I've seen, everyone's like, what about that steamy scene? And I'm like, no, this show is so much more than that.

[Justin]

It has it all.

[Morgan]

It has it all. And, like, coming from Minnesota and being such a hockey girl, like, I grew up on hockey. All of my best guy friends played hockey. That. That was my whole high school, college, my whole life.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

It's who I dated. It's just like. It's. It's so interesting. And, like, homophobia is something that, like, the hockey culture and the hockey world needs to get better with. And, like, there's been a lot of recent changes with, like, pride and taping their sticks with, like, rainbow tape and, like, trying to have LGBTQ plus nights.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

But then on the other side, there's players that are like, I'm not wrapping my tape. My stick in rainbow tape. And it's like, fuck you. And so I hope this show Kind of changes that and, like, empowers some of the players to just, like, be themselves. And.

[Justin]

Well, I've been seeing that.

[Morgan]

This is so good.

[Justin]

One of the actors was saying that some closeted professional hockey players had been DMing him. Being like, this was really helpful to me. And I think we have to remember that, like, even though we have progressed so much, there are still a lot of people who are in the closet because it would be dangerous for them to come out. And, like, even professional athletes, there's a very scary environment to. I don't know. I'm glad that they're doing it. It's cool. I think it's making some changes. I know.

[Morgan]

I hope it does. I think there's only been one hockey player that's even come out, and he was kind of speaking on this and maybe if you wanna look more into that, read that. But it is. It's just. It's really good. Great acting. I mean, Connor's Russian accent is in.

[Justin]

Does this take place in Russia?

[Morgan]

He's a Russian hockey player. It takes place in, like, Montreal and Boston, mostly.

[Justin]

Big hockey area.

[Morgan]

Unreal. Unreal show, though. I'm trying to get them on, so if you follow them on any socials, like, start tagging them.

[Justin]

Yes. Comment on all of their posts. You should be on two outtakes. You should be on two outtakes.

[Morgan]

Literally, that's how it actually works. Like, I feel like I've reached out to, like, a lot of people that people have been like, get so and so on. And I'm like, you guys, I've been trying. Yeah, it's hard. We're still flying under the radar over here on two outtakes a little bit, but, hey, but she's on 26 Globes. Maybe our year. But without further ado, let's get into today's stories. I have a theme. It's kind of a am I overreacting?

[Justin]

Theme.

[Morgan]

Just an assortment of chaos where people are kind of questioning, like, am I overlooking this or overthinking this or, I don't know, is it a big deal?

[Justin]

Usually you're not overreacting. That's my hot take. But we'll find out.

[Morgan]

Let's find out. Let's dive in.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Foreign.

[Morgan]

This episode of Two Hot Takes is presented by Credit Karma. When it comes to your money, Credit Karma keeps you ahead of the game. You can count on Credit Karma to keep up with your financial needs. As they evolve, they'll help you monitor your progress and give personalized recommendations so you can make strides towards your goals and Find your way to money. Make sure you're on the right track no matter where you are on your financial journey. Intuit Credit Karma Karma you can count on. I love tracking my score on Credit Karma. I actually found out that's how I missed a payment. Thanks Credit Karma. This is coming from our very own too hot takes. Subreddit 19 hours old. It is titled My boyfriend refuses to stop wearing his dead wife's wedding ring and wants me to just accept it. I've 32, female, been dating Mark, 38, male, for about a year. Mark was married before his wife died four years ago from cancer. It's obviously tragic and I've tried to be understanding about him still grieving. Mark still wears his wedding ring from her on his left ring finger the wedding ring finger while dating me. At first I didn't say anything because we were casually dating, but now we're serious, talking about moving in together and he still wears it every day when we go out. People assume we're married and he doesn't correct them. Last month I gently brought it up and said I'm uncomfortable with him wearing another woman's wedding ring while in a relationship with me. He said the ring is part of who he is and he's not taking it off. I said I understand that she was important, but wearing a wedding ring signals he's married to her, not available for a new relationship with me. He got upset and said I'm jealous of a dead woman and trying to erase his past. I suggested maybe he could wear it on a different finger or on a necklace, still keeping it, but not in the wedding ring spot. He said no, it has to stay where it is. Last week someone congratulated us on our marriage because they saw his ring and I had to awkwardly explain the situation. I don't want him to forget her, but I also don't want to feel like I'm the other woman in my own relationship. Am I asking for too much? I will say I read this late last night and I feel like my opinion has changed slightly. Reading it again, so I'm really, I'm curious.

[Justin]

This is hard because I don't think either of them are wrong. No, like I understand him wanting to do that. I also think she came up with a good compromise of like him putting it on another finger or around a necklace. And I also think, like, it actually is normal to be jealous of a dead woman. Like I think, how do you compete with that? Like, of course it's almost like this. Like I'll never compare. I'LL never measure up. But I don't think he's doing something wrong either. It does suck that it keeps coming up in these, like, awkward moments and awkward conversations. Oh, a lot.

[Morgan]

Like, it's coming up a lot.

[Justin]

Yeah. Because of course, people see the ring, and then it's like, oh, you're married. And then, you know, you have to do this thing every time. I've never been in a situation, like, for that either of them are in enough to, like, really put myself, I feel like, in the headspace of the reality of it. And I kind of feel like I understand both of them.

[Morgan]

I agree. And, like, we've had a lot of these stories over the years where we have had people that are genuinely jealous of a ghost or threatened by a ghost so much so to where they'll destroy every picture, video, everything of that other person, which is bad. That's bad. Especially because, like, there was one story where it was like, I think the daughter writing in, being like, my stepmom destroyed everything of my mom's. She threw it away. Blah, blah, blah. Like, that's really sad. Especially when there's kids involved and, like, that's their mom.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

With this one, I don't necessarily feel like she's jealous of a dead woman. It doesn't. It doesn't feel like she's trying to erase her. Like, other stories have. It genuinely just is kind of like, hey, like, I just want to make sure, like, you're open to us and this new relationship. And it does feel like you're closed off a little bit and holding onto the past and a past that, like, you can't have because she's gone. And then on the flip side, I'm like, hey, you might love him, but this is where he's at right now, and he's just not ready. Yeah. Like, grief is not a linear thing. Like, he's just not ready. And so you might have to accept him where he is or realize, like, maybe this isn't the right person for you right now.

[Justin]

It does come down to that sometimes. Sometimes it comes down to, like, this person's not wrong and this person's not wrong. It's really like, are you compatible? And could you both be okay in finding a compromise here and working this out? Yeah. And sometimes the answer is no.

[Morgan]

And I think the answer is no. Like, the compromise of maybe just, like, switch hands. Like, it's still on, like, your ring finger, but on the other hand, which is still meaningful, like, in Europe, in some places, that is their ring finger anyways.

[Justin]

I feel like this would be a situation where she would have to decide, would I be comfortable if we get married if he's always wearing two wedding rings?

[Morgan]

I know. Like, how would he even do that? Are we. We. We stack in?

[Justin]

Yeah. Like, he's.

[Morgan]

Granted, men's bands are different, but, like, we. We stack in.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

Like what? I don't know. It is interesting and, like, he almost.

[Justin]

Needs to find someone else who's lost a partner who can fully understand how he feels, or just, like, more conversations need to happen for them to, like, fully understand, like, the intricacies of their feelings about it.

[Morgan]

I mean, they also have only been dating for a year, and I get, like, you're 32, he's 38. Relationships, when you're older and established do move a little faster, but at the same time, like, I understand why he maybe isn't so willing to, like, take off this ring from his wife when you guys have only been together a year.

[Justin]

Yeah. Did they say. We've had conversations about it, and he's confirmed that he'll never take it off even if we get married. Even, like, if we progress. Yeah.

[Morgan]

Let's see if we have any comments from opinions. The top comment on this one is quite simple. He is not ready. Next one down. He's not your boyfriend. He's her husband. And that does have quite a few upvotes. Someone does respond to it this. I was widowed at 25, lost my partner and unborn child within 48 hours. It took me years to stop telling people. I was spoken for years for me to actually be ready to date. And every time I tried, it went up in flames. He's still her husband, and that's okay. That's a normal part of grieving as a widow. But it's not fair to her for him to be unable to admit it.

[Justin]

Wow. I mean, that insight's really helpful from someone who's been in a similar situation and lost somebody and said, like, yeah, this is a part I had to get through. But being in that phase does mean he's not ready to move on yet. I think that that's really helpful information, and that's probably what the girl was picking up on.

[Morgan]

This is really, really tough. I think it just comes down to compatibility, and I don't think they have.

[Justin]

It or just like, yeah, the time in life, like, may. That's what I was thinking when I was hearing it too. It's like, will he meet someone else who he loves so much that he does feel it's time to like, put that ring on another finger or do something like that. And I feel like you kind of have to wonder that. And it's probably harder to be him and be like, am I just feeling these things because this isn't my person, or am I gonna feel this way about everybody? Is it always never gonna measure up to the one who passed away? Very complicated. No one's an asshole here, though.

[Morgan]

No, no. And I don't even think you're necessarily, like, overreacting.

[Justin]

Oh, right.

[Morgan]

It's from am I overreacting Too Hot Takes sub Reddit. One of our own.

[Justin]

Ooh, ooh.

[Morgan]

One of our own out there. I would probably take a step back. I definitely wouldn't move in. I definitely wouldn't progress forward more in, like, big ways of commitment.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

If you care for him, love him, like, keep on dating. But if you can't move past the ring issue, then, like, I think you are just incompatible.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

I'm really curious what everyone thinks too, about the whole wrong time. Right person or right person, wrong time.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

And, like, so many people go back and forth on that, and they're like, you wouldn't get the right person at the wrong time. Like, the universe wouldn't do that to you. I'm curious what everyone thinks about it.

[Justin]

I go back and forth on that as well, because I'm like, I feel like with you and Justin, for example, like, it would have happened at any time in your life if you guys had met. Or do you not feel that way?

[Morgan]

Oh, no, we joke. Cause he's like, God, I wish I would have met you in college. Cause we were basically, like, going to the same bars. Like, I went to the University of Minnesota, he went to St Thomas, but the two colleges are so close, and you kind of, like, co. Mingle at all the bars. But I've told him, I'm like, if I would have met you in college, it never would have worked, ever.

[Justin]

Okay, so then that means there is such a thing as maybe right person, wrong time. Yeah.

[Morgan]

Because I'm like, I.

[Justin]

But also, college is so young. Like, I. I do feel like that's so different.

[Morgan]

I was just, like, in a different head space. I was dating hockey players and not for my own good. And I just, like, wasn't. I wasn't open. I. I didn't even. I feel like I didn't know who I was. And so, like, I think I'm more aligned with, like, the universe wouldn't give you the right person at the wrong time. I feel like everything happens. It was A lesson you grew, you love deeply, whatever you want to take away from it, but not the right person.

[Justin]

Yeah, but then I think the other thing can be true. If there's no, like, real reason, it isn't the right time. Sometimes people make up reasons it isn't the right time.

[Morgan]

That's true.

[Justin]

But then there really are, like, yeah, if I, if I had met people at different times in my life, I'm like, there's no way I would have ended up with anybody at that time. Yeah. But, yeah, no one's the asshole. I do think both of them in situations like this benefit a lot from finding groups of people who've been through the same thing or are going through the same thing. Because I think if you have no one else to talk to, the advice is almost worthless and it feels very isolating. So I think Reddit's a great thing for that.

[Morgan]

Also, no comments from op, no update yet. I mean, it is only, what is it, 19 hours old right now. Now, so still very fresh. But OP if you're out there, would like an update.

[Justin]

Sending love to you. You're not crazy.

[Morgan]

No, no. But moving along to this next one. Buckle up, buckle up. I. I feel like this one's gonna be. There's gonna be some hot takes that come out of this one, I think. Okay, this one is two days old. It's coming from off my chest. It's titled I told my sister's fiance about her secret Instagram where she ranks his family by who she hopes dies first.

[Justin]

I, like, choked.

[Morgan]

It's that bad.

[Justin]

Oh my God.

[Morgan]

I know how the title sounds. Just let me explain. So my sister, 29, female, has a finsta. Whatever. Lots of people do. I found it like a year ago because she accidentally logged into it on my iPad when she was over. And I saw the notification. It's private. Like 12 followers, just her friends. Most of the posts are just shit talking. Her job, random people. Jake, her fiance, 31, male. Like, she screenshots their arguments and her friends all reply king shit or whatever when she's being mean to him. I thought it was weird, but not my business. But a few months ago she posted this, like, tier list, question mark, question mark, ranking his entire family by the order she hopes they die. His grandma was first. She wrote a whole thing about how she, quote, gives off two more years max and I'm inheriting that ring. His 14 year old sister was on there. She said she has school shooter energy. Oh, I screenshotted it. I don't know why. I just Did. Anyways, last weekend, we were at a barbecue, and Jake is next to me talking about how much his grandma adores my sister and how she's so excited for October. And I just. I don't know, man. I showed him on my phone right there. He didn't say anything. He just walked to his car and left. Didn't even tell anyone he was going. Now everything is fucked. Wedding is paused. Whatever that means. My sister called me, sobbing and screaming at the same time, saying that I ruined her life over a joke. My mom keeps texting me about how I always do this, which, like, what does that mean? My dad just said that was a choice and walked away. Jake won't respond to anyone. His mom called my mom, apparently. I don't know. I'm getting everything secondhand because my sister blocked me. I feel sick about it, but also, like, was he just supposed to marry her, not knowing she ranks his family by death order for fun? Her friends all knew. 12 people knew. And just let him propose to her? I don't know. Maybe I should have just kept my mouth shut up. But also, fuck that.

[Justin]

I have such conflicting. I have such conflicting feelings about this. First of all, I'm gonna be so honest right now. This is some shit I would have done. Like, what, When I was, like, 20, when I was, like, 19 and had a finsta in college, I was saying crazy shit on there. It's almost like. I'm so sorry. I'm sorry to say it.

[Morgan]

A deathless, though.

[Justin]

It's kind of funny.

[Morgan]

What? No, bad.

[Justin]

I'm sorry. I'm so. I know. I know it is bad. Like, but, like, the issue is she's 29 and this is a secret from her fiance. So it's like, why are you. Why are you still doing this? And why is, like, the person that you should be closest to, why is it a secret from him? I'm gonna say it. I understand having a FINSTA with, like, 12 people and putting some shit on there that you would like. It's almost like a joke of, like, ooh, this is where I get, like, crazy. This is where I say things that, like, are pushing the boundaries, but, I don't know, it's tough. So I keep going back and forth because I do think. And I'm sorry, I think the sister kind of was an asshole for showing him that. I think she should have talked to her about it and be like, hey, I don't think this is appropriate. You're keeping this a secret from your fiance. Like, I understand you have, like, A sense of humor that I don't really.

[Morgan]

Get, but I clearly don't understand.

[Justin]

Yeah, I don't know. What do you think?

[Morgan]

I completely disagree.

[Justin]

I know.

[Morgan]

Yeah, but that's good though. Like, I love when we disagree on this show. Actually. I do think, like you could have asked her, like, hey, I saw this. This is extremely fucked up. Like, are you good?

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

Like you just labeled a 14 year old as school shooter Energy. Like you're actually giving.

[Justin]

That was, that was bad.

[Morgan]

You're giving psychopath hoping his grandma dies in two years so you can get the ring. Psychopath.

[Justin]

I don't think she really hopes the grandma dies in two years so she could get the ring.

[Morgan]

I genuinely see I'm kind of getting the energy that she does.

[Justin]

Interesting.

[Morgan]

I'm getting someone who's like this like genuine mean girl. The world revolves around her. I think it's super unhealthy everything she's posting on there. Because there's one thing about a finsta and posting like a picture with you and like chopsticks in your mouth, pretending you're a walrus.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

About to blurb yourself on meatballs. I don't know, there's something different about that versus like posting your arguments with your fiance and this like mantra manifestation, kill, hit list. Like it's just like super deranged in my head. So I do think like you could have approached the sister, but I don't think asshole in any way. Like he did need to find out, probably should have came from her. But then again, like, would she have even told the truth? I don't know.

[Justin]

Yeah, it is really bad. The issue is that I know people with sense of, with like, who have.

[Morgan]

This sense of dark sense of humor.

[Justin]

And like have like meme accounts or like finstas or like things where like this fully is a joke to them. So I know there are people where it's like, this really wouldn't come from any. Like, I'm serious about this type of place. But then at the same time it's taking me back to when I was 19, not now, when I'm 29. So it's like to still be doing this and for him to have no idea, that's really hard. Like I was probably posting similar stuff about like guys I was dating at the time, but not like my fiance. Like people like I posted like screenshots with their names cut out of like conversations I was having on my finstar, like arguments and like making like snarky little comments about it. Yeah, I think that's and it's like to 12 people, like that's basically a group chat, but it's still not good. I know that's tough. And having the 14 year old sister on there is really tough too. Yeah, no, you're right. Yeah, it's bad. It's bad.

[Morgan]

I don't know though. I mean, some people might not think it's that serious, but I think regardless he should know, like totally.

[Justin]

I think like, and I understand him wanting to break up with her because of it. Because it is mean and it is like, I'm supposed to be your partner. Yeah.

[Morgan]

And I also think it's one of those things like you just need to know who you're marrying. Like, I think a lot of people and I don't know why I've been seeing it so much lately. People get married and then all of a sudden that switch flips and it's like, would she let down this guard after they're married? And then it's like it's too late.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

So I feel like he should know now.

[Justin]

Yeah. I think the only thing is that as the sister, I feel like it was a big jump to like immediately showing him like while he like at a party, while he was talking about not having any conversations, like. But I also fully agree with you that this is like breakup worthy. And if I saw something like that, I would certainly break up with my partner for it. My only thing was that I don't think she like meant it in I actually want these people like dead type of way. I think she was kidding. But it's also, it's also like, yeah, you wouldn't want to marry someone who jokes about your family like that.

[Morgan]

Nope.

[Justin]

No. No.

[Morgan]

Top comment on this one. You taught your sister a valuable lesson. 29. This is incredibly immature and you saved that Jake guy a lifetime of misery. Next comment. Yeah, sounds like mean girls shit burn book to burn list.

[Justin]

Yeah, exactly. It sounds like a teenager to like maybe early college age type stuff to do.

[Morgan]

It's honestly quite wild. I can't believe like everyone in the family too being like, that's a choice. Yeah, that's a choice.

[Justin]

I know. Yeah. I also think what you said was really important of like they could get married and he still wouldn't really know who she is. Like he might know that she has this type of sense of humor, but he wouldn't think. He's like making fun of her with it. Sorry. Making fun of him with it.

[Morgan]

No, I, I agree. It's.

[Justin]

And that's. It just can't really come back from that?

[Morgan]

No, we don't have an update on this one. It is coming from a Reddit account that is six years old, has a verified email. I will say the person is extremely active on Reddit in like a bunch of subs, like R slash ask, marketing, movie suggestions, confessions, blogging. So like they're very active Reddit user. But I mean six year old account, which kind of makes me like, if it's an older account, I'm like, it does feel more legit. It's not someone that created a throwaway and is karma farming.

[Justin]

This would be so specific to makeup.

[Morgan]

I feel it's very unique and I.

[Justin]

Definitely, like, I can see this happening.

[Morgan]

Yeah, 100%. And like, hey, you know, not everyone gets along with their in laws. That's fine, like whatever. But you don't put it out there like this.

[Justin]

I know.

[Morgan]

Go to therapy.

[Justin]

Let me ask you a hypothetical, okay. If it was in a group chat with her friends and she sent that text, would it be different than posting it on her finsta at all?

[Morgan]

Probably.

[Justin]

I think the conversations maybe would be fine. But then the kill list is still where it gets tricky.

[Morgan]

What's that conversation though? Like, even with friends, Like, God, Mikayla, his grandma has the prettiest ring. Two years top.

[Justin]

That's what I'm saying.

[Morgan]

I'm gonna get that ring.

[Justin]

I feel like, yeah, like posting their conversations and saying like something snarky about it in a group chat to friends. Like if you texted that it wouldn't be as like, oh, we can't come back from that. Yeah, but the killist is tough.

[Morgan]

Like she went on canva and made a pyramid. It's giving like dance moms. Like she made a fucking pyramid with this guy's family members and then was like, I know you're at the bottom. Two years to live, mid tier school shooter.

[Justin]

And this is.

[Morgan]

That's not even a funny fucking joke. Like, like you are. She's genuinely like, she should be evaluated by a psychiatrist.

[Justin]

I would never want to date someone who would do this. But I have had friends who would do this and they were very funny.

[Morgan]

We have very different senses of humor. I'm like, I'm scared. Send help.

[Justin]

Yeah, but she's not going to kill anybody. If he, if the grandma actually died, she wouldn't be happy about it. I'm so sorry, guys. You're probably so mad at me right now.

[Morgan]

This is someone, this is someone that like I could see her putting lead in grandma's like smoothies. No. Did you just see that? I just saw like a video about her. Her husband had been poisoning with her with lead and she ended up like passing out and having to be put on a ventilator. And then when they were like doing testing to figure out what was wrong, her body was so lined with lead, they were like, how is she even alive?

[Justin]

No, I did not hear about this.

[Morgan]

People are sick.

[Justin]

Sick. Yeah, yeah. And I think the joke is bad enough. I'm just saying. I. I think it's a joke.

[Morgan]

Maybe that will be the poll.

[Justin]

Yeah, Joe.

[Morgan]

Or no, she's dead serious.

[Justin]

I'm gonna lose this poll.

[Morgan]

Hey, you're maybe self aware or maybe I'm in the clouds. Who knows?

[Justin]

I don't know.

[Morgan]

This episode is brought to you by Hulu. Hulu's most addictive original series, Tell Me Lies is back and now streaming. Return to Beard College with everyone's favorite toxic couple, Lucy and Steven, as they and their friends face past indiscretions and destructive behaviors. From executive producer Emma Roberts. Every secret and betrayal has consequences. Watch the all new season of Tell Me Lies now streaming with new episodes Tuesdays on Hulu and Hulu on Disney for bundle subscribers. Terms apply. So this is coming from R off my chest 10 days old now. It is titled I, female 22, just found out my fiance, male, 22 and I are related.

[Justin]

No.

[Morgan]

And we don't know what to do throw away because this is a massive secret and we are fully expecting it to blow up in our faces. I never thought I would post here, but the holidays uncovered something huge and my fiance and I genuinely have no idea what to do. I grew up in a fairly large city in the south with just my mom, my younger brother and me. My dad died of cancer when I was 4 and my mom supported us by working as an accountant for a mid sized company. It was always just the big three as my mom would say. I've never known anyone from her side of the family. She has always been extremely private about her upbringing, but as I got older I picked up bits and pieces. Whenever we saw family, it was always my dad's side. My parents met as adults, but after my dad died, my grandpa really stepped up in my life. He took me to father daughter dances, came to baptisms and major milestones and was always present. When I asked about my mom's side of the family, I usually got short answers like quote, they're bad people or we live far away for a reason. As far as I know, my mom left home when she was around 17 and never spoke to anyone from her family again. My grandparents on my dad's side never met anyone from her side. Almost four years ago, I got into a great university far from home. My grandpa drove me down to campus and helped me move in. During orientation, I met Tom, not his real name. We clicked instantly. Same humor, same values and a connection I'd honestly never felt before. We became best friends and very quickly and soon started dating. Tom is also from far away, but our hometowns are extremely far from each other. Over the years, I spent some holidays with his family and he spent some with mine. My mom, my brother, and my grandpa who passed away around Thanksgiving this year, all adored him and were very vocal about wanting me to marry him. His family accepted me just as warmly last year. His parents even gave him a large gift to help pay for an engagement ring. He proposed this past August, right around the anniversary of when we met. We are planning to get married in June, shortly after we graduate. One more piece of context before the actual problem. Tom and I became sexually active about a month ago. We were both virgins when we met and had decided we wanted to wait until marriage. After he proposed, we decided together that we were comfortable taking that step, especially since I'm on birth control and and we were already planning a wedding. Our parents assume we are waiting, but no one has ever directly asked. Until now, this has not been a point of stress for us. Here is where everything falls apart. This past Christmas, I stayed with Tom's family. My mom and my paternal grandmother are in the middle of an argument and I did not want to be involved in it, and my mom was completely fine with me going elsewhere. While at Tom's family gathering, his mom's parents came over and we all had a big holiday meal. We opened gifts and had a great time. They even gave me several gifts with their last name on it. At some point during the evening, Tom's grandmother made a comment to his mom, who I'll call Melissa. She said, quote melissa, do you remember when you and Rachel got me that planter for Christmas? I leaned over and quietly asked Tom who Rachel was. He looked confused and said it was his mom's twin sister who disappeared years ago. He had never met her. I immediately felt uneasy. My mother's name is Rachel, although she has gone by her middle name my entire life. I also knew she had siblings, one sister and one brother. Tom had mentioned an uncle who passed away around 2010. At the time, I convinced myself it was just a strange coincidence. Later that night, people were moving around the house and Tom And I ended up sitting alone together with some wine. I whispered something like, I didn't know your mom had a twin. I think at that exact moment, it hit both of us about a year ago. While dating, we had already realized our mothers shared the same birthday. We thought it was funny and even mentioned it casually. Wants to his mom. We both started internally freaking out, but kept it together for the rest of the visit. The next day, I flew home to see my mom. Before I got there, Tom and I came up with a plan. I told my mom I'd been talking to my gynecologist about some issues with my period and that one of the intake questions asked whether there were twins in my family. I said I didn't know and I figured I should ask. For the first time in my life, my mom admitted that she was a twin. When I asked why she never told me, she went on a long drunken rant about how her sister Melissa was, quote, a literal demon. My mom is unfortunately drunk most of the time. She also mentioned cutting her family off completely when she was young. What is wild is that my mom and Tom's mom look absolutely nothing alike. One is tall and brunette. The other is short and blonde. At that point, everything clicked. We confirmed last names, which were the same. I also learned my mom's maiden name for the first time in my life, which I know is strange, but she is intensely private. Tom and I are first cousins. We have no idea what to do next. Our parents have never met, but they are supposed to meet at our wedding in six months. We've already built a future around each other. Tom has a great job lined up, and I've been accepted early decision to my dream law school in the same city. Our relationship is genuinely strong. We are best friends and deeply in love. Ending the relationship feels like throwing away the greatest joy either of us has ever had. Continuing it feels terrifying. There are obvious biological concerns if we ever want children. There is also the very real possibility of being disowned or pressured to split. Once the truth comes out, we are stuck and completely overwhelmed. What do we do?

[Justin]

Oh, my God. At first I was like, how is it at all possible that this wouldn't have come out sooner? Meeting everyone's families, I.

[Morgan]

So I thought about that. Justin's family and my family did not meet until our engagement.

[Justin]

Yeah, but twin sisters? That's crazy. They're lucky that they weren't identical. Twin sister. I mean, I guess then they would have known, but like, genetically that would have been. Then their siblings.

[Morgan]

Then they're like half siblings.

[Justin]

Yeah. No, this is hard. We had not this exact story, but we had, like, a finding out. I think they were more distantly related before. And I just feel like you can't. Like, you can't see.

[Morgan]

I'm okay with it. What? I know. God.

[Justin]

How did they ever get past this?

[Morgan]

I mean, they weren't raised as family. I think it's very different if they're raised as family. We had a story ages and ages ago where this couple found out they were actually siblings and they had both been put in the foster care system. Had both, like, what? Her. He had been adopted and she kind of aged out of the foster care. I forget the exact details, but they had been dating for six years. Done everything a couple does in six years, and they didn't want children anyways. And so I don't know if we ever got an official update, but, like, my take was overall, like, you weren't raised as siblings. If you never would have found this out, you would have been fine. It wouldn't have impacted your life. You don't want any children. You're good.

[Justin]

Yeah. I just feel like the issue is. I think it's more complicated if there was. I think the one we read, they already had kids together or something. Like, they were already married. It was already, like, way down the line. This is like, they're not married yet, and all of their family is going to find out. So, like, not only do they have to personally get over it in their head, everyone else is gonna know. If they do ever have children, even if they adopt, they're gonna find this out one day. It's like this lifelong, like, scarlet letter almost on, like.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Justin]

And then also. Yeah. I don't know. I think you'd have to have a really honest, like, internal conversation with yourself of, like, will I ever fully get over this? Yeah. Because I wouldn't. You know, I. It's like cheating. It's like if you. If some. It's not like. Well, kind of like when a partner cheats on the other one and they decide to get back together, you have to be like, will I conceivably ever really get past this? And then it's, like, not fair to keep doing it. If I feel like this will always be a thing.

[Morgan]

1,000%. Yeah. Can I develop amnesia and forget it happened? Or at least, like, enough to move forward and be intimate and this and that. It would be tough. I think on the story where they found out they were siblings, she did mention she's like, like, touching each other now is kind of, like, gross, but I feel like, oh, God. People are just screaming in their cars and houses at the gym. Siblings is a lot worse, obviously, than first cousins.

[Justin]

We're getting a lot of mean girls references today. Like, no, he's my second cousin.

[Morgan]

Yeah. And that's the thing. Like, everyone's like, oh, we're someone. Recently was like, we're third cousins. And I'm like, I don't even know what that means.

[Justin]

No, I don't really understand the cousins.

[Morgan]

Or, like, the second cousins once removed. What?

[Justin]

No, I've had our. I've had discussions with this. With my mother about this, and I don't really understand it, how it works. I think, well, I would if, you know, I looked at a diagram of it. But I don't know. I just don't think. I don't think you can get past this. I mean, they certainly can never have biological children together. So that's a whole other thing of, like, can we get past that? Like, can I?

[Morgan]

If having kids was, like, one of their dreams, am I okay with that?

[Justin]

And then also, like, it's not only like, you have to get past it, but then all of, like, all the time you spend with your family, you're probably constantly, like, in your head thinking, they know that we're related. Like, everyone knows we're. Like, it just. It's such a barrier to put on, like, the freedom of how you live your life and express things with your partner and, like, the family that you eventually built. Like, oh, my God, imagine being like a child even. Even if you were adopted and being. And then later you're 18 years old or however old and you find out that your parents are related. And then it's like, now they have to probably try to keep that a secret from people they date so that people don't look at them differently. And it's like this huge family secret when you're not even married yet. Like, you don't have kids together yet. I know.

[Morgan]

And times really have changed because I. You always see this. Like, Albert Einstein married his cousin, and he was awful, by the way, Edgar Allan Poe.

[Justin]

And by the way. And by the way, Einstein's wife did his math for him and he's talked about that.

[Morgan]

Isn't that crazy? Yeah, I mean, that's. So many men. Look at Scott Fitzgerald. So many women have written Zelda's writing and then put her in a institution.

[Justin]

Yeah. Don't even get me started.

[Morgan]

Crazy. But there was another person that, like, I think Edgar Allan Poe married his cousin. Oh yeah, they were doing that all the time when. And she was like child bride. It was really bad. Really, really bad. And obviously times have changed somewhat more positively in some areas and regards. So I'm like, okay, well there's a lot of billions of people out there. Maybe a move on. But at the same time I think even if these two moved on, they would always wonder what if? And that would always be the one that got away.

[Justin]

I think they'll be wondering either way. It's tough. It's tough. I'm not saying that they've done anything wrong because obviously like they did not know. This sucks. This is like a horrible situation.

[Morgan]

Fucking people in the world. And they are from two very different homes.

[Justin]

Your parents, your mothers are. And everyone is going to know the moment you have the wedding.

[Morgan]

You could just elope and not have a whole wedding.

[Justin]

Then like think about how like beautiful and perfect your wedding day is now. Imagine that day. But you're stressed that everyone's gonna find out the whole day that your siblings. Oh yeah, nope's cousins. But I don't know. I know.

[Morgan]

Just.

[Justin]

Yeah, like there's just so many things. There are so many things you're signing up for genetically and emotionally and signing them other people up for by doing this. And again, it's not their fault like this. I just, I. I don't know.

[Morgan]

It's tough, it's.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

We do have some comments from op. Yeah. So I have comments right now sorted by Best on the post. The one at the very top says I'm sorry, that sounds incredibly painful. And also the plot of a movie. Yeah, OP responds. I certainly feel like I'm living in a horror movie. There's another comment here from someone. As I've said above, the cousin thing is one thing, but your mother meeting her estranged twin at your wedding is going to cause absolute carnage. This must be aired before the wedding and you need to face the possibility of your mother making you choose. You say she's drunk most of the time, so I'm guessing she isn't the best mum, else you wouldn't have added that information. Tom's mother also needs to know. Or there's another option. You tell your mother, she demands you choose. You choose Tom disinviting your family to the wedding. You say nothing to Tom's mother. It is not recommended. But this is all going to go disastrously wrong. I think if I could accept he was my first cousin, I would just elope and keep the family separate as far as possible.

[Justin]

So in one situation you're having a secret from your family the rest of your life. Yeah. And the other situation, one of you is cutting off your family for the rest of your life.

[Morgan]

Like, it's a no win.

[Justin]

This is no. There's no good situation. Or. Yeah, you break up with currently the love of your life and it just fucking sucks.

[Morgan]

I know. OP responds to that and says, I fear if we tell our mothers, then our whole support system will fall out beneath us. If we don't break up, it's almost like we have to be willing to break up if we tell them and neither of us want to break up at all.

[Justin]

It's an impossible situation. I don't blame them. And if they do stay together, it's not their fault that they're in this situation. It's just. I want. I want to know what they end up doing so badly.

[Morgan]

I know. So someone does say, do one of those DNA tests and see how much DNA you share. My grandparents found out they were third cousins after they got married. Their parents knew as well. Not quite the same, but they made it work. OP responds, this is good advice, but there's also some blissful ignorance here. Like, at what percent do we draw.

[Justin]

The line doing it by 5% versus 6% versus.

[Morgan]

I mean, we only have 23%. We're fine.

[Justin]

That's so. That's quite a lot.

[Morgan]

It's like. It's like kind of like one of those things. Like, what's the point in knowing that? Like, hey, we're first cousins. It is what it is.

[Justin]

Like, yeah.

[Morgan]

Yeah. The DNA percentage could vary, but, like, does it make it any easier mentally to digest? I don't think so. So we do get a bit of an update.

[Justin]

No way.

[Morgan]

It's a little bit of an edit here. I didn't expect this to get so much attention. Are you kidding me? Look at this story. But I appreciate all the kind words and encouragement. I also appreciate everyone who reached out kindly in my DMs. Sorry I haven't responded yet. As you'll soon read, my life is a little upside down. I wrote the original post in the early afternoon. At the time, my mother was out buying my brother new clothes for his upcoming semester. I decided I would confront her after dinner. Tom and I agreed that I would tell my mom that night and then we would figure out how to tell his parents. Dinner came and I wasn't eating. My brother kept asking why. So I eventually gave in and told my mom I had something important I needed to talk to her about privately. She seemed to recognize the seriousness of my tone and told my brother to go to the gas station to buy scratchers. When he left, I told her everything, starting with quote, this is really big news, but I want you to know that I intend to continue my relationship with Tom. I told her I'd been at Tom's house and learned that Tom's mom had an estranged twin and that I was confident it was her. I said the full legal names of Tom's mom and his maternal grandparents. I knew I was right by the shade of red. My mother turned. She kept saying what? And is this a fucking joke? I even showed her Tom's mom's Facebook. My mother has no social media and never has as far as I know. At first my mom went silent while I sobbed. Then she erupted. She told me I needed to leave Tom immediately and never speak to him again. I told her I wasn't going to do that. She started yelling about how Tom's family was spreading lies about her to me. They do not even know she was being paranoid. I told her I didn't need to tell them anything, that she could keep this secret and simply never meet them. Since his family is paying for the entire wedding, I suggested she not attend so she would never have to interact with them. That suggestion was not taken well. Yeah, she called me every name in the book. Whore, liar, bitch, cunt, et cetera. She screamed at me until she was blue in the face and told me she would not allow me to return to school for my final semester. Around this time my brother came home. He is a pretty low key guy and does not handle conflict well so he went into the adjacent living room and scrolled on his phone. I told my mom I would marry Tom regardless and that if she chose to not be a part of my life, that was her decision. She called me ungrateful and continued screaming. Things escalated again when she demanded that I hand over my phone. Long story. I am actually on Tom's family's plan. She also demanded that I go to my room. I said no, that I am an adult and she threw a 3/4 full bottle of Botanist gin at me. It hit my arm and shattered on the floor. This is when my brother stepped in and pulled me out of the house. We could hear her breaking things and swearing as we stood outside. Since my flight is scheduled early in the morning, my brother drove me to his friend's apartment near the airport. He works at the airport and lives about 15 minutes away. I'd never met this friend before. My mother texted me multiple times Asking where I was and calling me awful names again. But nothing else happened. I'm writing this now from the airport, waiting to board my flight. I have a bruise on my arm, but it is not serious. Tom thinks I should have called the police, but I could just not do that to my mom, even if that ends up being the last time I ever speak to her. My brother brought all of my belongings to me around 2am and then took me to a hotel connected to the airport. He is a saint. This is only half the update. After I left the house, during the drive to my brother's friend's place, I called Tom hysterically. He told me he thought he should tell his parents, and I agreed. After we hung up around 10.30pm, Tom pulled his parents aside and told them everything. They had seen pictures of my mother on my Instagram before and had not recognized her. But once they looked again, they confirmed it was the Rachel that they knew. Melissa cried and cried. Tom's dad. I'll call him. Richard said the situation was very strange. They asked Tom a lot of probing questions, including whether we had been sexual and whether my mother knew. Tom told them everything. They were disappointed in him, but they did not dwell on that. After Tom explained what had happened with my mom earlier that night, Richard and Melissa completely changed their tone. They told him they still supported our marriage but needed to make a game plan for how to handle this moving forward. They texted me, saying incredibly kind things, telling me nothing had changed, that I was still their daughter and that they loved me. Melissa also shared why my mom became estranged from them. Now this is only her side and I may never hear my mom's, but apparently when my mom was in high school, she started to unravel emotionally. She would yell at her mother constantly and accuse her of favoring Melissa. Their father was the coach of the girls basketball team, which Melissa played on. But my mom did not, and my mom felt rejected by both parents. During their senior year, my mom ran away with an older boy, not my dad. His family knew my grandparents well, so they assumed she was safe. But my mom told them she would never speak to them again, and she kept her word. The last they heard about her was three years later when the boy's parents said that they had broken up and she moved to another city. This was the city where she later met my dad. They wrote letters she never answered and eventually respected her wish for no contact. All of this came secondhand from Tom, who heard it from his mom while I was coming down from hysteria in an airport hotel. Room at dawn. The details may be fuzzy, but that is what I know how I'm doing. I'm heartbroken and scared. I've only seen my mother be violent once before when she threw a brick at my brother for sneaking a girl in. I was always the perfect child and now I cannot imagine her ever speaking to me again. It feels like I chose the people she felt rejected by over her. My heart breaks for my mom, but I love Tom and I do not believe it is fair to either of us to abandon this love. I am also scared of what she might do next. She went to my grandmother's house and my brother's girlfriend's house trying to find me. My brother refused to tell her where I was. She knows where my apartment on campus is. I have considered moving in with Tom for safety, but his parents asked us to stop being intimate until marriage and I do not think they would approve of us living together. That said, they have both been incredibly kind. They paid for my hotel stay. Tom was nervous about me staying at my brother's friend's apartment. I was mostly afraid of the roaches. They are texting me as I write this, sending florist options and talking excitedly about our wedding. Overall, I am okay, but I am terrified of the unknown. How is Tom doing? He's very anxious being away from me and incredibly grateful to my brother. He wants me to block my mom's number, but I'm not ready. He encouraged me to make an appointment with my therapist and we are hoping to attend a few sessions together. He has apologized endlessly and feels like he should have figured this out sooner. But it's not his fault. If we had known earlier, we might never have had the love we now share. And I believe that love is worth it. This morning, his father warned him not to share this secret with anyone. Tom is nervous about how our grandparents would react if they found out. If anything else happens, I will update again. We are still reading all of the comments. The encouragement, especially from those who urged us to tell our parents, gave us the strength to do the right thing. Even though I regret telling my mother, I think it was better than lying and creating a long term deception. Thank you all for the support. Feel free to ask any questions. It genuinely helps us think through every angle.

[Justin]

Wow. I mean, talk about originally an impossible situation, then another impossible situation. On top of that, with the parents.

[Morgan]

Like, God, yeah, what do you do?

[Justin]

The mother's reaction was abusive. That was awful. But then it's also the tragedy of her life in general, of already being the black sheep in the family. I know that the twin dynamic can either go so well and they're best friends and everything's amazing, or it's the opposite of always comparing yourselves and sort of there being the golden one, and then the one who kind of feels like they never measure up. And then she gets married, and then he dies, and then her daughter also chooses the other family over her. And then that family has the perfect reaction, and they're so supportive and they're so wonderful while she's, like, you know, throwing things. And it's just. It's very tragic all around.

[Morgan]

I know. And I think what's interesting here is that their tone shifted kind of the minute they found out the mom's reaction, which I get, like, that's horrible. That was abusive. We're gonna support you.

[Justin]

But it almost feels they're once again positing themselves as, like, the perfect family.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Justin]

And the only problems that happened between them was because she was such a.

[Morgan]

Mess, she unraveled emotionally. Yeah. To me, I'm like, there's so much going on here that it's like. It's hard to, like, pick out what you even focus on with this one.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

But that does kind of ring bells for me, because I'm like, why are you trying so hard? Like, you just found out your first cousins, and yet you're still sending her florist options.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

Like, why are you trying that hard?

[Justin]

I'm holding on very quickly.

[Morgan]

Why are you being so supportive? It. It almost makes me feel like something else is up here. And I do think there's a lot more to the mom's side. Like, I genuinely don't think someone runs away at 17 from a loving home.

[Justin]

Right.

[Morgan]

Like, there probably was a lot to, like, you were the golden child. She was the black sheep, and she left. And there's a comment here that OP Responds to, and someone is like, odd man out here, but your mom's past behaviors, decisions, and reactions are. Are very reminiscent of SA from a family member. And so, like, people are really diving into this to just be like, no guarantees. Like, not saying that is what happened, but, like, there's alarm bells on both sides.

[Justin]

I agree. I think there's something about the almost, like, too perfect reaction, too perfect family. And a lot of the time, like, victims are the ones who seem crazy and awful and unlikable because they're the ones whose lives were affected, whereas, like, the perpetrator is usually fine. Like, they're not facing the effects of abuse. And so, yeah, victims aren't likable. And that's why, like, the very charming, like, perpetrator always seems to, like, get away with it in situations. And I'm not saying that that's what happened here. Obviously. We're kind of, like, taking leaps to get here. But again, like you said, the immediate switch up of, like, oh, she's reacting like that. Like, if she had had the perfect reaction and been like, oh, I'm accepting, like, this is fine. I'm gonna support you no matter what, would then they have done an opposite to that.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Justin]

I don't know. Yeah, it's almost like one more win against her that now they get her daughter, and that's, like, a boon. I don't know if we're off base here. I don't. It's just.

[Morgan]

Yeah, I definitely, like, the reaction is insane. It wasn't okay, but I completely understand it. At the same time, like, I'm putting myself in the position of, like, my family life and my home life was so bad that at 17, I left everyone and everything I knew.

[Justin]

Right.

[Morgan]

To just move away and start a life on my own. Like, yeah, that is extremely hard. And I would imagine things were horrible.

[Justin]

And it sounds like the other fam, like, they're very well off. Like, she didn't gain anything by running away from them. She could have had the financial support. Like, she can't afford to pay for the wedding. And then hearing that from the daughter of, like, oh, well, then maybe you just shouldn't come. You don't come to the wedding. They'll be at the wedding with me. Like, that's nightmare. Feel like that's crazy.

[Morgan]

I am just a story perplexed.

[Justin]

I know. And again, it's so much easier, I think, to have opinions on these first cousins getting married as people who aren't in the situation, obviously, like, being actually in that situation is so much more difficult than it is to have an opinion on the Internet or on a podcast. So, like, I can't really, like, judge them for that. I know. It's just like, ugh, this is tough. It is.

[Morgan]

It is so, so challenging. And, like, Justin and I, we've had a story where, like, he's been the one sitting across from me reading similar vibes. And, like, I think we've even kind of talked about, like, what would we do today if we found out we were related? Like, what would we do?

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

And for us, like, it wouldn't change anything. Like, pursue other means of having kids. But, like, we're in so deep right now that like, it wouldn't change anything. And that's kind of where they're at. I don't know how to proceed forward with Mom. Like, I think if she continues to be very aggressive and abusive. Like, I do think you have to go low contact, if not no contact. But I would really try to have an honest conversation with her and be like, can you please tell me your side? Like, why did you leave? What happened? Because I, like, I want to understand why your reaction was what it was. Like, I didn't feel good about that. Like, you threw a bottle at me. That wasn't okay. I just want to understand where you're coming from and try to, like, hear her out. I mean, there's some dark shit here. Something's off. Something is off. I don't know what it is, but something just feels off. And after that, after that conversation and giving her her time, and obviously you're. It's a phone call, like, which is also probably safer and easier for you. But after that, then you can proceed forward. And, I mean, you're. You're like, OP is like, steadfast. Like, I'm marrying Tom. I love Tom. Our love is worth it. And, like, that's how you feel today. Then you have to proceed forward, and that is what it is. A lot of people did comment, make sure marriage to your first cousin is legal in the state you're in. OP did respond, it is legal in their state, not the state Tom is from.

[Justin]

Wow.

[Morgan]

They never planned on living there anyways, so no issue. But, like, that is another consideration of.

[Justin]

Like, there are so many more levels to, like, can I just emotionally get past this?

[Morgan]

Yeah. The one line that did kind of, like, throw me for a loop here is like, quote, tom is nervous about how our grandparents would react if they found out. And that's where you're like, my grandma is his grandma, but we're getting married. Like, that was the only line that was like. But they're also not a lot grandparents like that.

[Justin]

For me, I'm gonna be honest. It's really tough.

[Morgan]

It's a tough one.

[Justin]

And then even on top of that, I feel like she will be committing to not having a relationship with her mother. I believe once she marries Tom and is really integrated into his family, that's sort of it. They'll probably discourage her making up with her mother. Tom already wants her to block her mom. Like, I just don't know. Like, not only is it weird for them that they're related, but she's also leaving that part of her life. Behind.

[Morgan]

I know. And I think a lot of people, too, would be like, well, you know, she did mention her mom is a functioning alcoholic, and blah, blah, blah. And it's like, yeah, I think, like, parents can be super unhealthy, but, like, it also can still be hard to cut them off. Like, that's not an easy thing she's doing. And OP does provide another comment here, kind of, because people were asking, like, what's your mom like? Not really a loss. Like, they were kind of implying, like, you're maybe better off just marrying Tom and not talking to her. And OP Responded to someone is like, thank you. This comment's very kind. My mother is a functional alcoholic who cuts people off very quickly. She starts a lot of drama. But she has always loved me and provided for me. I was valedictorian of my high school class, and I honestly could not have done it without my mother, who did everything she could to secure me the best tutors and resources. That being said, I fear her reaction will be harsh.

[Justin]

And as a single mother, I don't know, it's just hard because I can see how the mother ended up where she is today. And it's like, after so much tragedy, and it's like, at what point do we give up on people like that and just be like, well, you've become a part of the system of abuse.

[Morgan]

Too, so, yeah, this is so fucking hard. Where do you guys fall on this one? Are you team move forward, get married, Just let everything land where it's gonna land? Or are you kind of in the boat of, like, yeah, this is gonna be a big heartbreak, but it's probably best if you just go your separate ways and move on.

[Justin]

I would put off the wedding. I would move it later.

[Morgan]

I think that's a good idea.

[Justin]

Give it time to be like, okay, we think we feel this way, but if a few months pass and we're starting to be like, okay, this actually is weird, or, like, I am feeling things that, you know, it's. It's so soon to know how you're actually gonna feel about it.

[Morgan]

Very true.

[Justin]

I would be like, wait a year. See how we feel over that year. If we really do get past it and, like, the people that we love and our family around us, like, they also don't seem weird. That's one thing.

[Morgan]

But, yeah, that's a really good point. And then I. It begs the question of, like, are they getting married so young, so shortly after college for religious reasons? And, like, obviously they were waiting until marriage. They've Hooked up maybe once or twice. Like kind of by the sounds of this very religious, conservative family, like, don't live together, no sex. Have you been intimate? So there's kind of that context playing.

[Justin]

There and the mom being like, I'm gonna take your phone away. I'm not gonna let you go back to school. This was very. There were, like, some comments where this really felt like young people.

[Morgan]

Yeah. And OP Even says, like, my mom is very conservative as well. Like, Tom's family is very conservative. So there are some comments from OP Kind of alluding to that. But I guess, like, that is interesting. Cause it's like, okay, you've waited this long. Hold off sex for a few more months. See if you guys can, you know, be okay with this. But at the same time, you do get married, you do start having sex. That's when you start having a problem of, like, this is when it gets hard for us is the intimacy side of it.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

Because we know we're cousins now and.

[Justin]

Tom will need to get a vasectomy.

[Morgan]

OP does say we are firm on, like, going the adoption.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

Route.

[Justin]

Like, we're. It's good that they've, like, tackled that conversation already.

[Morgan]

A lot, A lot of comments from OP you guys. I've really gone into most of them, but God, I know.

[Justin]

What a doozy.

[Morgan]

What a doozy. I can't believe it. I will say the comments on the Best of Redditor Update were, like, talking about how the roaches were, like, their favorite part of it. Like, I was mostly afraid of the roaches.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

And then they go. I really, for just a second thought, oh, that's nice that the roaches are so involved in the wedding planning. And someone replies and goes, haha, Ogtha has nice and thoughtful relatives. And then someone goes, ogtha mentioned.

[Justin]

Who's Ogtha?

[Morgan]

I have no idea who Ogtha is.

[Justin]

Original. No, no.

[Morgan]

So this is apparently some Reddit lore. Oh, we might be taking a little bit of a detour here and learning about Ogtha because I think you're gonna love it. I think you're gonna love it.

[Justin]

Is there any chance I could pee really fast?

[Morgan]

Oh, we are totally taking a pee break because I'm gonna pee my pants.

[Justin]

I've had so many drinks.

[Morgan]

So when we continue, Ogtha, upon further review, Ogtha is definitely good, but it is a little long. Oh, it's a story. It's another Reddit post.

[Justin]

Oh, okay.

[Morgan]

It's Ogtha. O G T H A. Ogtha. Ogtha. I mean, if you literally Google Ogtha The Reddit post about it is coming up.

[Justin]

I can't believe this has never come up before.

[Morgan]

Yeah, I'm. I've never heard this story. There's not really a pronunciation for it that I'm seeing, so I have no fricking idea. But because it is a bit longer, I'm gonna read two more shortish ones and then we will circle back. We're gonna get into that because I feel like it'd be, by the looks of it, a good one to kind of cap us off.

[Justin]

Wow. I'm excited.

[Morgan]

Based on the title, I think you're gonna love it. I think you're gonna love it. Okay. I'm so, so, so excited for this next one. I saw the trailer for this movie, and I was immediately like, yes, I need to see it. And I'm not even a horror, like, Scary Movie Film Girl. Like, everyone knows that, but this has Rachel McAdams in it.

[Justin]

Wait, okay. Yeah, I saw this trailer.

[Morgan]

Okay. Doesn't it look insane?

[Justin]

I was very confused at first because I thought it was gonna be, like, a classic workplace. Oh, you know, drama. And then I was like, oh, it.

[Morgan]

Looks so, so, so good. Yeah, I literally. You guys, go watch the trailer for this movie. It's called Send Help, and it is just so good. And Rachel McAdams looks amazing. It looks like she's gonna get so into this role, and, like, she's just such a good actress. And I'm pretty sure, like, Dylan o' Brien is in it too.

[Justin]

Oh, yes. Yes. I was confusing him in my head. I thought it was one of the Franco brothers, but no, I think it is Dylan o'.

[Morgan]

Brien. Yeah, Dylan o' Brien's in it. It's just. It looks so, so, so good. So this next story is actually brought to you by 20th Century Studios.

[Justin]

Oh, my God.

[Morgan]

Hey, guys. So it's from Sam Raimi, director of the Evil Dead, and Drag Me to Hell comes Send Help. It's about Linda Little Rachel Mike Adams, an overworked and overlooked employee who ends up stranded on a deserted island with her absolute nightmare of a boss. So this next one, we're getting into a work story. I hear you guys. You've wanted more work stories. We're gonna see what a nightmare work situation looks like in the Reddit world right now. Yay. Yeah. Okay, so this one is coming from Aitah. It's two months old. Someone actually sent it to me on Instagram, which I really appreciate because it's a good one. It is titled Someone at Work Stole My Chair. So I had them arrested.

[Justin]

Oh.

[Morgan]

I got a new job in sales working for a company that sells access control systems, CCTV systems, etc. The chair in my cubicle was uncomfortable as fuck. So I, day three, brought in my own Herman Miller Aeron chair. On day four, it was missing. I looked around and another sales rep was sitting in it. I asked for it back, but he basically told me to fuck off. I went and spoke to the owner of the company. He told me that the chairs aren't reserved. They are first come, first serve. I explained that I own the chair and it cost me $1,800.

[Justin]

Oh, my God.

[Morgan]

He told me that I need to come in earlier. If I want that chair, I'm taking it home. Then the owner of the company is telling you also, go fuck yourself. The next day, the same guy was sitting in it. When I got to the office, I told him to give it back or I was going to call the cops. He refused, so I called the cops. It was quite the scene. But in the end, he admitted that he took my $1800 chair. I was prepared. I had the receipt which showed the serial number.

[Justin]

Wow.

[Morgan]

Yes. Aeron chairs have serial numbers. They asked me if I wanted to press charges. My new boss said I would be terminated if I had him arrested. So I said, absolutely, I want to press charges. My new boss fired me on the spot.

[Justin]

Oh.

[Morgan]

So I carried my chair out with me as I was leaving, and yes, the cops arrested the dude who took my chair. He admitted to it. The dude who took my chair has been in the industry for about 15 years, but he's going to lose his security license, which means he won't be able to work in the industry. He's going to lose his job. I don't give a shit. He shouldn't have stolen my chair. Am I the asshole for making this dude lose his job?

[Justin]

They had me. Then they lost me.

[Morgan]

You had me in the first half.

[Justin]

Obviously, this wasn't like these people sucked. And initially calling the cops, I was like, you know what? Sure, I'm on some petty shit today. Like, well, I don't know, actually, but, like, you tried everything else. I do feel like after he admitted to stealing the chair, there maybe could have been some, like, middle step before pressing charges of, like, coming to some kind of agreement. But I don't. I don't know. I think. I think they maybe took it too far. I probably would have just taken the chair home or gotten it engraved with my name or something. Or, like, taken it to HR or. Yeah, I Think. I think they did overreact.

[Morgan]

Like, oh, this escalated quickly.

[Justin]

For fun. I want to be like, yeah, haha. Like I'm on your side. Get crazy with it. But in real life, I do think, I think that's a bit much also.

[Morgan]

Like, I understand the chair sucked. You wanted to bring your own chair in. 1800 chair. Like, if it wasn't that guy stealing it, like, who's to say that someone wouldn't have stolen it and taken it home and out of the building? Like, it's a risk. Okay, he shouldn't have taken your chair. The boss. Not a good boss. Nightmare of a boss. Not having your back and going up to him, being like, hey, John, you know, so and so brought that chair in. Take any other chair, Take any other chair. Guy, bad boss. But to call the cops, have him arrested, lose his security clearance. I think you went too far. Now you've kind of.

[Justin]

I know.

[Morgan]

Come the nightmare. Power tripping.

[Justin]

I agree, I agree. I was like, at first with the title, I was like, okay, this is definitely overreacting. Then they were telling the story. I was like, you know what? I'm on their side. Then it got to the end and I was like, nope, I'm off again. That's like, it's too much. Too far.

[Morgan]

It's too much.

[Justin]

I feel like there has to be a better way of dealing with the assholes. And like, my petty response to that would honestly just be taking the chair back home. It wouldn't be like, okay, I'm gonna lose my job. You're gonna lose your job. Like, you're also maybe gonna go to jail. The police are involved. Like, that's.

[Morgan]

It's too much drama for a chair.

[Justin]

These people are assholes. But at what point do you also drop lower than their level?

[Morgan]

You know, I know this is a. I feel like this is gonna be another divisive. Divisive.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

One where people are like, I don't know, because the boss, horrible. But again, like, you kind of were so aggressive and like, yeah, I don't.

[Justin]

Think we should be calling the police on people so willy nilly in this world that we're living in. I don't know, it is weird. Again, there must have been other ways of making your point.

[Morgan]

Honestly, get a leash on it. Yeah, like you do you remember in.

[Justin]

Like a bike lock or something? Now, them overreacting doesn't negate the other two being assholes.

[Morgan]

No, no.

[Justin]

Like, let's be clear about that. Like going to your boss and being like, hey, the chairs here are really uncomfortable. I've got. I've got back issues. Yeah, I want to bring my own chair, but I don't want anyone else to steal it. I spent a lot of money on this. Is there a way that we can make this work or you get more comfortable chairs for the office? I know this person kind of is a diva though. Like needing an $1800 chair.

[Morgan]

Top Comment says this due to lower back issues. I always provided my own desk chair and made sure it was clearly marked that it was my personal property.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

I also used a bicycle cable.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Wow.

[Morgan]

To secure my chair to my desk. At the end of the day, one co worker had his chair disappear. So he sent an email to the entire global company address book. It was hysterically funny to read the response emails.

[Justin]

Wait, is this a thing? Like, please let us know if stealing chairs at the office and bringing your own chair and then that chair getting stolen. Let us know if that's the thing. I know about the food. I know that bringing your own food and putting that in the company fridge and that getting stolen is a big thing.

[Morgan]

That's huge.

[Justin]

But let me know about the chairs.

[Morgan]

That's huge. Someone. I think it is. Cause someone else responds, I worked in a call center years ago and had a coworker who crazy glued a big old sign with large letters, blanks, chair do not touch. It worked. No one touched her chair.

[Justin]

Right, because then you're the asshole in a chair with a big ass sign on the back that says so and so's chair.

[Morgan]

Oh, I'd literally get one of those like license plates with my name on it and like zip tie it.

[Justin]

Screw it in there.

[Morgan]

Screw it in there. Like, I would be aggressively making sure that people knew that this was my chair.

[Justin]

And that would be petty, but it wouldn't be getting someone fired and calling the police on them.

[Morgan]

It feels like an overreaction to me. But again, like the boss kind of instigated it where it was like, if you have him arrested, you're fired. And then I feel like OP has one of those personalities that's like very.

[Justin]

Like, you go low, I go lower. Yeah.

[Morgan]

Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, a little bit. Clearly, this is a story of a nightmare fuel. But a deserted island has to be worse. Directed by Sam Raimi. Sent Help is the ultimate work trip from hell. It's a real killer. Only in theaters and 3D January 30th.

[Justin]

Oh, wow. I didn't realize it was coming out so soon.

[Morgan]

Shall we go? Yeah, it's gotta have the little footstools. Yeah, little recliner. Is it weird if I bring my own blankie?

[Justin]

No, I always do. And I wear fuzzy socks too.

[Morgan]

Okay, I just need something to cover my eyes during the scary part. I just want to see Rachel McAdams. Okay, moving on to this next one.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Chronic migraine.

[Justin]

15 or more headache days a month, each lasting four hours or more, can.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Make me feel like a spectator in my own life.

[Morgan]

Botox Anabotulinum toxin A prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine. It's not for those with 14 or fewer headache days a month. It's the number one prescribed branded chronic migraine preventive treatment.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Prescription Botox is injected by your doctor. Effects of Botox may spread hours to weeks after injection, causing serious symptoms. Alert your doctor right away as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems or muscle weakness can be signs of a life threatening condition. Patients with these conditions before injection are at highest risk. Side effects may include allergic reactions, neck and injection site pain, fatigue and headache. Allergic reactions can include rash, welts, asthma symptoms and dizziness. Don't receive Botox if there's a skin infection. Tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, including als, Lou Gehrig's disease, myasthenia gravis or Lambert Eaton syndrome, and medications including botulinum toxins, as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. Why wait?

[Morgan]

Ask your doctor.

[Justin]

Visit botoxchronicmigraine.com or call 1-844botox to learn more.

[Morgan]

Do we want one more work one?

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

Keep on a little work train here.

[Justin]

I feel like we don't do that many work ones.

[Morgan]

I know, and people have been asking for them. So I feel like this is a good one. And the title really intrigued me. I haven't read it at all, but the title, I was like, I think it's gonna be good.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

So this is coming from our friend direct Caterpillar 77. Posting it.

[Justin]

God, every time he puts together a story, it's magic.

[Morgan]

I know again. And then you see direct caterpillar 77, you're like, okay, bet like it's gonna be good. So this one is titled, my co worker told everyone we're married. We're not even dating.

[Justin]

Oh, no. Scary. You're in danger, girl.

[Morgan]

Last year I left on a leave of absence for a few months to take care of my elderly parents. Then I returned to work. Apparently during that time, one of my co workers began telling people we were married. Not as in work wife, as in legally married. And everyone believed him. Honestly, I had no idea he had any feelings for me and I don't think he knew I would be coming back. I'm an introvert. I keep my personal life private and don't talk much about myself. But the fact is I have a husband, not him, who I've been married to for 10 years.

[Justin]

10 years.

[Morgan]

10 years. Not wanting to cause him embarrassment, I privately went to our boss, explained the situation behind closed doors and asked for a department transfer. Even though he's never sexually harassed me or made a move on me, I'm very uncomfortable being around him right now and don't want any contact with him. My boss agreed, said she would speak to him, and though she didn't have the authority to move me to another department, she would see to it that we wouldn't be put on a team together and kindly offered to adjust the schedule so he wouldn't be in the office at times when I was there. I've tried to handle this whole mess as discreetly as I can, but today I lost it. He walked into the break room while I was in there and I basically yelled at him in front of everyone there, saying I'm not his wife and to stop telling people we're married. I know this was not the most mature way to handle the situation, but I was at my wit's end. What do I do? So this is originally getting posted on Ask a Manager.

[Justin]

Okay. Yeah.

[Morgan]

And Ask a Manager is like that blog with Alison. She is like the all being managerial woman. She knows all HR expert. I don't think she overreacted at all.

[Justin]

He's publicly saying this to whoever.

[Morgan]

Like a creep.

[Justin]

She's trying to like privately handle it. She's offering to change departments herself. Not even like, he has to leave or he has to change departments. Like, this very much is not an overreaction. I would also snap and it causes confusion for your relationship. It's also like, potentially scary. Is it because he's obsessed with her? Is it coming from like that type of place? Is he just trying to seem cool? Like, what you don't know. And it's scary not knowing very. And either way, it's like, why am I, like, what's your fixation with me?

[Morgan]

Why me? Yeah, you don't know me.

[Justin]

Why? And he's not even getting fired. Like, I don't even think him getting fired for that would be an overreaction.

[Morgan]

A lot of companies have like policies about working with your spouse or someone you're dating. So what if this impacted OP negatively at work because of that? Yeah, like, it's just. It's not okay. So Allison actually asked our writer, what did the coworker do when he was getting yelled at? And the writer responds, I think he was in shock because he said nothing but immediately left the room. However, there was definitely a palpable tension between me and my colleagues who had witnessed the whole thing. As I said before, I didn't want to cause a scene or embarrass him publicly. Unfortunately, I was in the moment and I let my emotions get the best of me. I fear there can be no good resolution to the situation. Either I've just exposed him as a liar to my coworkers, or they think I'm the one lying, since he'd apparently been telling people we were married for quite some time.

[Justin]

Oh, that's scary.

[Morgan]

Since I can't transfer departments, I'm entertaining the idea of putting in my two weeks, but I'm still emotionally reeling from what happened, and I don't want to do anything impulsive or make the situation worse.

[Justin]

Yeah, no, the fact that he's been saying this for a long time. At first when I heard this story, I thought it was she left the company or something and then came back. So she thought he was in the clear to be like, oh, and by the way, like, you know, my girlfriend goes to another school type thing. But it sounds like he's been planting this seed for a long time and that's just like a very scary personality. Like, to just confidently lie to people about being in a relationship with someone who works with them. Like, say you're in a relationship with a completely made up person that no one knows if you're gonna lie about dating someone.

[Morgan]

I know.

[Justin]

I do feel like more conversations have to be had to, like, get to the bottom of why? Where this is coming from.

[Morgan]

Yeah. Cause, like, what is the root of this? Like, we've had people lie in the past that their sister was their girlfriend.

[Justin]

Right.

[Morgan]

I think. I think that's what it was. Because their sister, like, everyone thought she was hot at work. And so the OP wanted to look cooler in front of everyone. Yeah, Weird. Weird. All weird.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

I don't know. But yeah. What is the core reason here? So there are comments on the Ask a manager blog. Someone goes speechless, jaw gaping. Next one. Me too. I can't imagine what would possess someone co worker to do such a thing. Even more so, I can't imagine how coworker thought this would pan out. Seriously, how did he expect her to react? Op, I'm angry for you by the way. You did nothing wrong. Even the blow up was in my opinion legitimately called for. And OP does respond yes in the comments. I am OP and thank you all for your reassuring and empathetic responses. I like to assume the best in people that maybe he just had a crush that spun out of control. Or as one of you had said, perhaps he has low self esteem and wanted to prove he was likable or normal. That's why I felt badly about handling it the way I did. Though I know he is the one at fault here. That said, we are both in our 40s and so I feel someone that age theoretically should have outgrown that high school insecurities type behavior. I've been able to avoid him since the incident without feeling too much like I'm walking on eggshells and my boss, with my permission, also informed her boss and they've both been very supportive.

[Justin]

Supportive? But he's still in the same department as her.

[Morgan]

Yes, right. And we get an update that comes eight months later.

[Justin]

Wow. Mm wow.

[Morgan]

I didn't expect my question would even be published, let alone receive so many supportive comments from the Ask a Manager community. I only wish my bosses and co workers could have been that understanding.

[Justin]

Oh God.

[Morgan]

About a month after the break room scene I still felt like I was walking on eggshells to avoid my husband and I noticed the attitudes from my manager and coach co workers changing for the worse.

[Justin]

I and I could have told you this might happen of immediately she's like seen as the in this situation. What? Yeah.

[Morgan]

Oh how?

[Justin]

Yeah how?

[Morgan]

I would have brought in a big ass picture of me and my husband and put it on my desk. Multiple pictures.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

I would have been like no, this dude is crazy. How did this get flipped on her?

[Justin]

Because that's how it works in this world.

[Morgan]

I ended up leaving for a similar job that pays better and is just a healthier environment overall. I hate how we call everything and everyone toxic nowadays, but that truly was a toxic environment in retrospect, and the lack of support from management and HR was finally the big red flag that sent me packing. Some of the commenters mentioned stalking and safety because the man seemed a bit obsessed. While I've seen the guy a few times around town, there hasn't been any interaction between us and I don't think he or any of my former co workers know where I work now. Nobody's attempted to contact me and I can breathe easier. I wish everyone at my old job well. I hope they can learn from this situation and I thank everyone who commented on for Their encouragement.

[Justin]

Yeah, what the heck? I.

[Morgan]

It's cr.

[Justin]

I know a girl, and, like, just to speak to this being a very plausible situation, I know a girl who was just last week on her close friends posting about how she'd found out that multiple guys in her area had been, like, lying to people, that they'd slept together, that they dated, and just how, like, violating it feels to have people, like, talk about having an intimate relationship with you when you haven't as, like, a form of bragging. And it's like the reality of it is so much more violating than it just sounds in a story like that.

[Morgan]

It's horrible. Especially when you, like, find out about the intimate details of what got said. Like, this happened to me in high school, and I didn't find out until I was in college that this ex boyfriend was spreading all these rumors. It's just like.

[Justin]

It feels like worms crawling on your skin. It's so icky to be used like that. I don't know, as, like, a prop to somebody else's story. And honestly, that's like, the best case scenario for him is that he was just doing that to brag and seem cooler because him being obsessed with her in this scary stalker way is even worse. So there's really no situation here where he's just this, like, good faith, like, sweet guy who made a mistake. I mean, he'd been spreading that for a long time and using her to, like, prop himself up in that story. And then even when this all came out, he didn't do the right thing and be like, I'm so sorry. That was weird of me. I had a crush on you or whatever. And I. And I accidentally said it once, and then the lie got out of hand. Like, he should have come forward and apologized, switched departments, left the company, whatever, when that happened. But instead, this, like, got turned on her for, like, embarrassing him. And, like, well, he's been doing that to her.

[Morgan]

I also just. I still don't understand the lie. Why. Why not say, oh, we're dating. Yeah, like, why did you jump to marriage? And I do think it's kind of weird. She's seen him around town a few times. Like, unless it's a really small town, but, yeah, that is still kind of weird to me. And again, a bad boss. What is up with these bad. Bo?

[Justin]

And I already was. Like, when she said they were being supportive, I was like, how supportive are they really being if they're saying you could switch departments and change your life because of this lie about you? And nothing's actually being done about him. How supportive are they really being?

[Morgan]

And I am curious, more so the HR perspective on this. So Alison's response was, don't quit your job. You were in the right, he was in the wrong. It's understandable that you lost it. Ideally, of course, you would never lose your cool at work or cause a scene, but he's the one who did something wrong here. He should be exposed as a liar. And what the hell is wrong with your co worker doing something like this?

[Justin]

Yeah, why is he allowed to publicly say that about her, but she can't publicly respond to it and be honest? Like he's allowed to publicly lie about her, but she's not allowed to publicly be honest about him?

[Morgan]

The post goes on to say, I think you'll feel much better if you go and talk to your co workers who were there. Say something like, I want to apologize for losing my cool in the break room. When I returned from my leave of absence dealing with a family issue, I found out that Derek has been telling people we are married. We've never had any involvement at all. So this was really bizarre. Feels violating. I'm at my wit's end. And then I'm curious what the response to the update was.

[Justin]

Yeah, in my dream world they would have had like a face to face showdown where he would have said exactly why he did this. Yeah, but it sounds like what they're saying is she confronted him and then we kind of don't really get the information of what happened after that before she left the job.

[Morgan]

Well, and the thing is, Allison usually like will point to HR rules or like, oh, that's a harassment, that's a blah blah, blah, like you should go to hr. But it doesn't even seem like anything was pointed out. There was no update response from Allison in regards to OP's update. So it's kind of like there wasn't maybe even legally anything that could be done. It's like, oh, that's an office rumor. He's not sexually harassing you. It is what it is. Sorry.

[Justin]

Yeah, because it's such a. Like what falls under that category. This is such a unique situation. It's probably not written out in the rule book.

[Morgan]

So that's so crazy. Bad boss. I just like shitty job. But honestly worked out for the better here. Like, yeah, OP left a toxic work environment, went to a similar job, is getting paid more. So unfortunate stress that they had to deal with. Not their fault, but worked out for the better.

[Justin]

Yeah, I mean that's a unique one. That's, that's a. A different office rumor. Because he had to, like, at least be a little stressed that he'd be confronted with the truth of it if they're in the same department. And, like, he's been spreading this for a long time. How did he feel so comfortable lying like that?

[Morgan]

Cockiness.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

Audacity.

[Justin]

Did he just think she was so nice that she wouldn't say anything like.

[Morgan]

Or he would just brush it off like, you guys, sorry about that. She really doesn't want anyone at work to know we're married. Sorry. Wow, she's just a little crazy today. That's diabolical. Sorry, guys.

[Justin]

I'd be like, here's my lock screen photo of me with my real husband. Here are wedding pictures.

[Morgan]

Dude. That's like, I would have immediately brought in, like, pictures of me and my husband. I would have gone to office max.

[Justin]

Just, like, around your desk, blown them up.

[Morgan]

Yeah, I would have made a poster of it. Like, our wedding day picture. Like, I don't know. Yeah, Like, I would have been like, I think in my response, sometimes I can be a little passive aggressive versus having hard conversations. And that is where I would have.

[Justin]

Been a little more aggressive.

[Morgan]

Passive aggressive.

[Justin]

Passive aggressive. Yeah.

[Morgan]

Print out the pictures. Put them up everywhere. My husband. My husband. Not Jeff. My husband. Not that guy. Like, I don't know.

[Justin]

I mean, that response would have probably worked for her, though, because then she wouldn't have seemed crazy to all these people. Not that she was crazy. That's just like, unfortunately how people spin things. Sometimes.

[Morgan]

I wonder what the workplace, like, rumor mill said after.

[Justin]

Yeah, I know. Because now he gets full kind of control of the narrative, the way it goes.

[Morgan]

But also, what if he wanted to date? What if a new co worker gets hired and what if he wants to date him? Yeah, like, you're screwed now you're married. Why?

[Justin]

Why would you do this for 10 years too? Like, it's not even like a secret that she's married or it's like a new thing that she's in a relationship with someone else.

[Morgan]

A decade, decade long marriage.

[Justin]

I am very curious about office rumors in general now. Like, if there are any other stories that people have about, like, a really weird rumor about them that was spread in the office or like, one that's been going around or if, like, one of their co workers confronted a different coworker about something. Yeah, I would love to hear that.

[Morgan]

I've got. I've got a theme coming up. I think, like, you guys still want a work theme, right? I know someone said work. Someone messaged me and they're like, can.

[Justin]

You please not safe for work.

[Morgan]

Do that one. So, yeah, work stories, but not safe for work. And then someone is like, can you do like a school teacher?

[Justin]

Oh, I like that too, because I do like, like classroom, classroom, drama, college. Like, yeah. So it would be even less crazy if it was like two college students and the guy was spreading rumors in his lecture, like, oh, yeah, I'm dating her, but that would still be crazy. But like doing it in a professional, like, work environment about someone in your department.

[Morgan]

No. It's so weird. The audacity.

[Justin]

And it works for him, so no wonder.

[Morgan]

Insane. I do have one more work story that is going to go on the first bonus episode for January.

[Justin]

Wow.

[Morgan]

Also has to do with a picture. Am I wrong for not removing a photo from my desk after my coworker made it weird?

[Justin]

Oh my God, you can't leave us hanging.

[Morgan]

The workplace tea is starting to pipe.

[Justin]

And everyone's back at work after the.

[Morgan]

Holidays too, so I know.

[Justin]

It's good timing.

[Morgan]

I know. So if you have any personal work drama you want our takes on, go over to the Too Hot Takes subreddit, post it there and I will make sure we get a good work theme together for February. That'll be good. That'll be good.

[Justin]

Experience A membership that backs your business journey with American Express Business Platinum.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

When you pay with membership rewards points.

[Morgan]

For all or part of an eligible flight booked with a qualifying airline through.

[Justin]

Amex Travel, you can get 35% of those points back up to 1 million.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Points back per calendar year.

[Morgan]

American Express Business Platinum.

[Justin]

There's nothing like it.

[Morgan]

Terms apply.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Learn [e-mail] Business Platinum On December 12, Disney invites you to go behind the scenes with Taylor Swift in an exclusive six episode docu series.

[Justin]

I wanted to give something to the fans that they didn't expect. The only thing left is to close the book.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

The end of an era. And don't miss Taylor Swift the Eras Tour, the final show featuring for the first time the tortured poets department. Streaming December 12, only on Disney.

[Morgan]

But moving on right to Ogtha.

[Justin]

Oh my God. Okay, I'm so confused that, like, this hasn't even come up for you before.

[Morgan]

No, and I'm sure it has on like other Reddit pods. I mean, the original post is from 2014.

[Justin]

Wow.

[Morgan]

So it's a little vintage.

[Justin]

Let's get in the headspace of 2014.

[Morgan]

Remember the story you were on? It was the first episode I think you ever came on. Really? Bonded us as friends. About the bug. The bug guy, yes.

[Justin]

That is immediately where I went with it.

[Morgan]

So we do appear to have another bug guy.

[Justin]

This is perfect. I know. I'm gobsmacked at the perfection of this whole situation.

[Morgan]

I know.

[Justin]

If you guys don't know, like, this was one of my favorite stories. This was what, like four years ago? At least. At least four years ago, at least. I went on two outtakes for the first time. We were at your dad's condo at the time, on a couch, I think, chillin'. And there was this story about a guy who was method acting a Beatle part in a play. And we really tried to, like, find the. I think someone eventually found the play and sent it.

[Morgan]

Yeah, the play was Metamorphosis.

[Justin]

Right.

[Morgan]

And it was real. Just wait, you guys. We are coming a little bit full circle, but time traveling, so this is gonna be good.

[Justin]

Wow. Every four or five years we need a bug.

[Morgan]

We need a bug every four years. Yeah. It's gotta happen. So the post is titled Today I fucked up by admitting to my girlfriend that I pretend she is a giant cockroach when we have sex.

[Justin]

Wait, this is a fetish. This is like. Sorry, okay.

[Morgan]

Ever since I was a teenager, I have had very intense fantasies.

[Justin]

I.

[Morgan]

About having sex with a giant roach.

[Justin]

This is not that. This is not that unusual, by the way. This is not that unusual. I hate to break it. No, literally. On my old podcast with Matt, we had a story about a guy who was role playing. Like, you pretend to be an ant or. No, you pretend to be a big human that's about to smash me, and I'm a little ant and your really big foot is about to step on me. And I'm like, ah. I'm so small. Like, don't step on me. Like, this is a thing. I've heard it before.

[Morgan]

It started in 9th or 10th grade when we read the Metamorphosis by Franz Kafka.

[Justin]

No.

[Morgan]

As I started to think more and more about the roach creature that the character had become, I started to imagine what it would be like if a woman turned into the roach instead. I found this idea very arousing. I would not be repulsed or frightened of her, as the characters in the story are. I would take care of her. Then my thoughts started to get sexual with the character. Eventually, I sort of dropped the bit about her having been a human woman first. And I kind of imagined this fictionalized roach species. They are giant roaches the size of a person and have complete intelligence. I kind of over time, conjured up an imaginary friend of sorts of. She was one of these roaches and her name was Ogtha. I would fantasize about her often whenever I masturbated, I'd be imagining elaborate scenarios of me and Ogtha making love.

[Justin]

It's not even a sexy name.

[Morgan]

When I started to have actual sex, I found I could not perform if I wasn't thinking of Ogtha. So basically, now every time I have sex with a woman, I am pretending that she is actually Ogtha, not just think about Ogtha. I concentrate intently to visualize that I actually am doing Ogtha, doing Ogtha. I don't want to think about the girl at all. There is only Ogtha.

[Justin]

We like. Romantic.

[Morgan]

Of course, this sex can never be as exciting as my fully imaginary sessions with Ogda. There are things that her multiple appendages and antennae allow for that a human woman could never match. So anyways, I've been in a relationship with my girlfriend for about a year. Three or four times I have tried to have sex with her and not pretend she is Ogda, but I just can't do it.

[Justin]

And every other time, he's imagined Ogtha. Okay, awesome.

[Morgan]

So essentially every time we have sex, I'm imagining she is Ogtha. I finally confided this to her the other day and I was blown away by her reaction. I thought she might take it a bit badly at first, but that she'd get used to it. No, I have never seen such a look of disgust before. Outraged is not an understatement. She is not even returning my texts now.

[Justin]

Shocking.

[Morgan]

I'm afraid that she's actually going to break up with me. And also that is going to tell people about Ogda. I don't know how I will face anyone. This is going to sound silly, but I also feel guilty about feeling shame. As if Ogda will be saddened by this. Even though I know she is imaginary, I just don't know what to do at this point.

[Justin]

Can I tell you, like, once again, I'm warring with myself about this story. On one hand, I think it's the romance of a century. Like, I think that. I think that like OP and Oktha should have a movie. Like there should. Like he. He cannot. This is the most faithful a man has ever been to anybody in the history of the world. Can't imagine being with anybody other than Ogtha. Like, Oktha is all. All you dream about, all you think about. This is like. This is like the greatest love there's ever been. At the same time If I were.

[Morgan]

The girlfriend in this situation, can you imagine hearing that?

[Justin]

The fact that he's surprised, like, a little bit. He's like, yeah, like, at first, of course, she'd be like, a little upset, but I imagine she'd get over it. And then he's more worried about Ogda's feelings than her feelings. This is like. This is almost like the AI girlfriend trend of everything, like dating, chatgpt or whatever is going on where it's like, there's this idealized woman who doesn't talk back to you and only, like, ever does what you want and says what you want her to say. Except in this version, it's. Is it a cockroach? It's a cockroach.

[Morgan]

Cockroach.

[Justin]

And I can't believe. I can't believe that this goes back. He should date the actor who's method acting as the roach for metamorphosis.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Justin]

They could both find happiness with one another.

[Morgan]

See, I do think there's someone out there for him. Right. I do think he needs to be a little bit more upfront with his fetishes versus, like, I would be so distraught and grossed out if. If my partner told me, every time we have sex, I envision you're a roach.

[Justin]

Yeah, it. I mean, a roach is especially bad. But if they said that about anything and you're in like, I envision you as anything else. No, every time I have sex with you, I envision you, envision you in any other way, I would be like, that's hurtful.

[Morgan]

Yeah, it's like really weird and hurtful.

[Justin]

And like, oh, you don't actually want me. And he also said that just want.

[Morgan]

A woman to plug and pretend is a roach. Yeah.

[Justin]

And he said it's never as good with her as it is when he can imagine Ogtha by himself.

[Morgan]

It's just you only have two hands, though. That's the thing. Like, how are you imagining all of these?

[Justin]

Well, you've got a lot of fingers, appendages, and.

[Morgan]

Antenna. Antennae. Antenna. Maybe he brings in props.

[Justin]

Maybe there's prop play. I think he has to. Yeah, that's true. If I'm getting really serious, I do think he needs to get help. This is like a detrimental.

[Morgan]

He's Pavlov'd a bit too hard.

[Justin]

And I think. I don't know if we talked about this before with fetishes of like. I think it can become a problem and you need to talk about it with your partners very early. If there's no other way for you to have sex. Like it's one thing to be like lightly interested in something and like oh yeah, I like this or I like that. But if you cannot have sex unless you imagine them as this roach, Ogtha, you've gotta go to Reddit, you've gotta go to forums, you've gotta find someone out there who's also got that same fetish or you need to get help because there's no other way forward.

[Morgan]

I think a qualified therapist is a non negotiable. But yeah, I would say like if you're gonna start dating again, maybe go to bug groups and go to like sure, like the zoo and observe the bugs and maybe you' find your person.

[Justin]

Someone else observing the bugs that's into.

[Morgan]

The bugs and wants to be a bug. And I don't know, a bug's life could be for someone, but it ain't for that girl.

[Justin]

I was going to say a bug's life has gone triple platinum in his house. Ants the movie triple platinum in his house.

[Morgan]

Well, I'll tell you what Mikayla. Okay, we get an update of course. Yeah, of course.

[Justin]

Cuz it wasn't enough. That perfect story wasn't enough. There's got to be more.

[Morgan]

An update comes six years later, 2020.

[Justin]

This was around the time that we read the play.

[Morgan]

So first post was October 3, 2014. Second post is May 16, 2020.

[Justin]

Oh my God.

[Morgan]

Five and a half years later. Oh, five years ago I submitted the story of me telling my then girlfriend that when we made love I was envisioning her as a giant roach. You might think of a scene in Blade Runner 2049, which my original Today I fucked up predates by the way, where the main character makes love to a prostitute but his hologram girlfriend kind of holograms over the body of the actual person.

[Justin]

Oh yeah, great.

[Morgan]

So he can pretend he's making love to his hologram. That is what it was like with me and Ogtha. But instead of a hologram it was just my imagination. In the five years that have passed since this topic was posted, I decided to stop fooling myself and I just committed to the love of Ogtha. I know she is not real per se, but in my head she is an actual personality and I am in love with that personality. I don't care if she is a roach or if she is imaginary, the love is real. Call me deluded, but it's harmless. It makes me happy. I have not had a real girlfriend again since that incident five years ago. But occasionally I have had one night stands via online apps with the understanding of it being one night in advance. And on these terms, I always envision the woman is Ogtha, my sensual roach queen. Now, I mean no offense to the women, of course, and even a gentleman once or twice. The many appendages of Ogtha make translation to human gender almost irrelevant. I just envision they are Ogtha and no haha, I've never confided to them about it. I learned my lesson. The thing about it though, is that I became so in love with my Ogda that I married her. I even did a little ceremony in my living room. I recited my own vows and she recited hers. I even went on a honeymoon, which technically you could say was a solo vacation to New Orleans for work. But in my mind, Ogtha was with me the entire time. In my mind, I think of her as my wife.

[Justin]

Tears in my eyes. Beautiful.

[Morgan]

Now here is where I fucked up. I got so used to thinking of her as my wife in my head that a few months ago at work, I nonchalantly said my wife in some innocuous sentence. I think it was something like, oh yeah, me and my wife love that show. In regards to Chopped. So now everyone was asking me about my wife because they'd never heard I was married or even dated anyone.

[Justin]

So then he just said it was his co worker. And then. And then the. It's all connected. Everything is connected.

[Morgan]

Everyone kept pestering me, wanting to know about her, wanting to see pictures. I became full of panic. I did the only thing I swore I would never do again. I talked to other people about Ogtha. In real life. My guy, my guy, my guy, my guy.

[Justin]

No, even in this scenario, you lie. In this situation, you lie.

[Morgan]

Dude, I can't even read this. I'm so uncomfortable.

[Justin]

What happens next, because right now I'm on board with him. I'm like, okay.

[Morgan]

We were at a team lunch and I just let it all spill out. I told them about how I became enamored as a teenager with the Franz Kafka story. How my fantasy evolved into an actual imaginary entity with a personality. And how I slowly began to grow in love with her. What started as a mere sexual attraction to giant roaches blossomed into a whirlwind romance. And that she became the love of my life, even though her existence was in my own mind. At first they thought I was doing a creepy joke, but I convinced them I was telling the truth. Well, they were afraid and disgusted. I have been a pariah at work ever since. Everybody steers clear of me. We used to have A good social life. Now people only speak to me for work related reasons. Even working virtually now. Nobody sends me a slack message unless it is about work. I even heard a rumor that people went to hr, but they were of course told nothing could be done. I've lost my good work friends because of this and it is indeed jeopardizing my career because my bosses think I am insane. I've ruined my friendships and future career prospects due to my honesty. I am thinking of starting to look for a new job. Although it is difficult in the current environment. Covid.

[Justin]

Oh yeah.

[Morgan]

I can start fresh elsewhere though. No matter what. I will be staying with my wife, Ogtha. For me it is Ogda forever.

[Justin]

I mean that's his girl and he's.

[Morgan]

Gonna stand beside her if you must know. I do hope that even if I am an old man, that one day the technology is invented to extract the Ogda personality from my mind and implant it into a real external body, either of a genetically engineered or a mechanical nature. And me and Ogda can experience genuine physical connection. But if she must remain within me, that is fine. Her love keeps me warm on the coldest of nights. Thank you.

[Justin]

Like fuck. Like it's beautiful. Like lo. You think it's beautiful? Like, I mean this is.

[Morgan]

I'm uncomfortable.

[Justin]

I'm.

[Morgan]

I am deep. I understand where his co workers were at hearing this. I'm visually described. Yeah, I'm impressed with his imagination.

[Justin]

Right. And his ability to sustain the sustainability of it all. What I will say is like if you're. I feel he did the right thing. I think maybe the better thing would have been therapy. But this is the second best thing, right? Because he can't keep lying to a girl he is dating and imagining Ogtha.

[Morgan]

No, his only option was to be single. If you can't.

[Justin]

Right.

[Morgan]

Move beyond.

[Justin]

He's not single, he's married. So jot that down. No, and I want to just say that I like I have to believe and I'm so sorry but someone listening to this podcast has had a. Had a one night stand and been imagined as oktha. Just like numbers wise. Like someone listening right now. I do believe either you or someone you know has had a one night stand with the guy who's picturing you.

[Morgan]

As his Beatle wife. Dude, like I just don't understand. Like I would just like be so lonely.

[Justin]

And I get.

[Morgan]

He's not lonely. He has oak. The.

[Justin]

He's married.

[Morgan]

But like this guy feels like he's like taking some Bradley Cooper type magical brain pill that Lets you open the other 90 of your brain and like he is going into another realm with his imagination. And how right Ogtha is.

[Justin]

Or he's using less of his. It's hard to know for sure. I. I bet he is having just genuine mental illness. Oh, what was I saying? I bet he's having a field day with generative AI right now. He like he is having a robot pretend to be. OK, the 100%.

[Morgan]

I could see him coming back. We're actually due to an update.

[Justin]

It's five years.

[Morgan]

It's at that point due for an update.

[Justin]

Technology has come a long way. He probably doesn't have a physical oktha.

[Morgan]

But I mean, after 10 years with the VR goggles.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

And what you can now generate true. Like there is VR porn, right? And it is like. Have you ever been in it?

[Justin]

VR porn? Yeah. Have I been in.

[Morgan]

Have you been in VR porn?

[Justin]

No, I haven't been. I don't even watch regular porn. I've never been in VR porn.

[Morgan]

It's very real. I have VR. I have a VR headset. If you want to just.

[Justin]

Just like to I.

[Morgan]

To just look. No, you don't have to do anything. But you can just look.

[Justin]

I have my own feelings about that.

[Morgan]

I don't do anything.

[Justin]

I have my own feelings about that.

[Morgan]

I don't want to look. But it's real people and they record it within a VR camera. And so it's like you let them.

[Justin]

That's between them. That's between them. I don't need to be there.

[Morgan]

Okay. For research purposes. I need someone else on this podcast to like just stick their head in it for one second.

[Justin]

I also have my own imagination and that works for me. I don't need to be in the room. I don't need to be in the room with them. I'm like, what am I doing here? Like, they're having their fun.

[Morgan]

No, it's just you are them. Like, you are in the goggles. You're them.

[Justin]

Yeah, yeah. But I'm not though. And I know that. So it's like. It's a little tough, but.

[Morgan]

Okay, so he could literally create Beetle porn.

[Justin]

I think so. I think so. Because I think we're at least at the point now. But I also then wonder, like, okay, and here, imagine this scenario. He creates a VR ogtha, but she starts to like, have some of her own thoughts and he falls out of love with her.

[Morgan]

I think that would be the ideal situation. Cause then he could finally move.

[Justin]

I think that is what happened. I think there's so much of this is just the fact that he gets to project. I mean, there's the sexual component, but then there's also this emotional component of like, I get to create whoever I want this to be, whatever I want her personality to be. And if there were even a little bit of her thinking for herself, it'd be over. It'd be over, I hope. Because it would fit his delusion. It wouldn't fit his like fantasy delusion.

[Morgan]

I would love a recent update from OP we are now at that five year mark. It's kind of time. We do have one more post from OP okay, that came after the co worker thing.

[Justin]

Around that. Around that same time or later.

[Morgan]

Yep. Third post titled Today I fucked up by telling my parents that I am married to an imaginary giant roach.

[Justin]

I mean, it's about time you tell the parents.

[Morgan]

I love Ogda and she loves me. Some time ago I married her. Now, from a strictly legal sense, no, I am not married per se, but me and Ogtha, we consider our relationship to be marriage. I'm devoted to her and her to me. I revealed this to my co workers and it did not go well. But I thought my parents had a right to know. Last evening I revealed to them everything about Ogtha and told them we were married. I even allowed Ogtha to speak through me to them so that she could finally meet my parents after only seeing them from afar. I knew my parents would find it unusual at first, but I thought they would come to understand and be happy for me.

[Justin]

He keeps thinking that. He keeps thinking that it'll go that way for him.

[Morgan]

However, I fear they think me deranged. My mother actually cried and not tears of happiness as I expected. They even encouraged me to seek counseling. I explained to them what I am experiencing is real and encouraged them to read through the Tulpa Reddit. It has created a very bad situation for me and now I fear my relationship with my parents is quite ruined. They keep insisting I seek counseling and are threatening that if I don't, they will no longer assist me with my student loans and will not welcome me at Thanksgiving. I feel they are overreacting, but at the same time I wish I had just kept my marriage a secret. I do consider it now to be a fuck up to have been truthful with my parents. They are in some ways traditionalists and are simply not ready to understand how entities can exist without physical form and share a mind. It breaks my heart, but I wish I had been deceitful with my family. For the record, I will never divorce Ogtha. And with our love, I know I can survive anything. But I wish I had never been truthful with my parents.

[Justin]

I mean, he sounds delusional, but you have to put yourself in the mind of someone who's been with Ogtha for many years now.

[Morgan]

Like, ultimately 10 years.

[Justin]

At a certain point, you have to convince yourself it's not that crazy, right? Like, you have to, in your mind, be like, no, this is semi normal. Like other people. Surely if they. If they love me, they'd understand.

[Morgan]

I genuinely think OP is dealing with some mental health issues.

[Justin]

I would be so curious because with that I was like, well, it seems like unless he tells people, it's not really affecting his life. He went to school, got a functioning. Seems to have a job, seems to not have any other addictions that didn't last long. Right? So then it's like, why did you start telling everyone? So then it's like, I wish I could hear from a third party because someone else might be like, no, he's a recluse. And like, he doesn't have a social life because of it. An ex wife, you know, it's hard when you're hearing it from OP's perspective.

[Morgan]

You just envision OP, like, talking to themselves. But it's Ogtha.

[Justin]

And it's just like, yeah, and okay, speaking through him, to his parents.

[Morgan]

It's. It's evolving as time goes on, which is kind of scary. Like, how much it's escalated to like, oh, you had a normal life and you got a girlfriend, and then you just kind of envisioned having sex with Ogtha as you were having sex with your girlfriend. But now it's like, no. Like, you are one entity and she talks through you. And that's where I'm like, oh, no, no, no. This is. This is beyond I almost any imagination.

[Justin]

This could happen to anybody in, like, a way that anyone could probably, like, fall into a cult. Like, I. I could see the progression of, like, fixating on something and then it slowly, like, taking over more and more of your life. Maybe not oak that specifically happened to anybody, but like a delusion. It's like you have to catch it early enough to cut it off before it's all consuming. Like, if he'd gone to therapy about the beetle thing when he was in. In high school.

[Morgan]

Yes.

[Justin]

He probably could have cut this off and had, like, a normal relationship.

[Morgan]

I agree.

[Justin]

But it's too late now. He'll never forget Oka.

[Morgan]

He will never divorce Ogtha.

[Justin]

We need to see this play. We need to see metamorphosis.

[Morgan]

I know I, like, need to, like.

[Justin]

The power of it is almost terrifying.

[Morgan]

I need to understand how it's captivating people so much. Like, multiple people have been captivated by this. This roach, this beetle, whatever it is. Wow. That was a detour I did not expect to take today.

[Justin]

So glad we did.

[Morgan]

Are we, though?

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

I don't know if I am, to be honest. I'm gonna have to think about that.

[Justin]

I'm, like, ultimately not that bothered by it. I think if I were to get. If I were to get realistic about it, I'd be like, okay, he's. There's something. Something really off there.

[Morgan]

I need to, like, hear more stories about other weird fetishes. Like that Antoine that you shared. Like. Yeah, that intrigues me.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

Joe Santa Gardo. Like, I think when he came on his initial episode way back when, like, he told me that he, like, talked to some lady that made, like, shit sushi. Like, I need to.

[Justin]

I can't get behind that. I can't get behind that.

[Morgan]

I need to, like, hear other weirder stories. But I tell the. This feel better.

[Justin]

The ant thing wasn't even us reading a random story. It was a conversation Matt had with somebody asking him to roleplay as the ant. Or they were the ant. So it's slightly different because they were the ant in that scenario.

[Morgan]

That's insane.

[Justin]

I've seen it a few times. I've even had people in my DMs be like, sometimes I imagine that I'm really, really tiny and I'm on the palm of your hand, and then you slap me against a wall. I've gotten that more than once. Not exactly that, but like a tiny. A tiny fetish.

[Morgan]

Please. If you've experienced something goofy along these lines, please put it in the comments. You can go on YouTube, make an anonymous account and just.

[Justin]

I'm so tiny. Don't step on me.

[Morgan]

Ah. Just put it right there. Like, I don't know. You like to be tied up with dirty socks. I don't. I don't really care. I just, like, I need. That's probably not that bad. I need something that's, like, on Ogtha level that makes this feel better. And I'm just genuinely curious what's out there now.

[Justin]

Yeah, yeah, I know.

[Morgan]

There's, like, the leather pony fetish and people gallop around in a ball gag with a leather horse head on.

[Justin]

I think what sets Ogtha apart is how, like, unique and one of. One of a situation it is.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Justin]

Because she is, you know her own thing now. I do wonder maybe someone out there read that story. And now they also love Ogtha. I don't know. She's very desirable. She. She knows how to hold down a man.

[Morgan]

We're done. Okay, y'.

[Justin]

All.

[Morgan]

Love ya. We're headed over to Patreon. I got Jenna sitting behind the camera here, ready to go. Thank you for joining us on another crazy episode of Two Hot Takes. I mean, man, it was banger after banger today. Let me know what you want to see. We've got some really good guests coming up soon. I'm headed to New York. I just ran into Joe at that pre Golden Globes party. Said hi, said come on the pod. So fingers crossed, y'. All. But let me know who else you want to see if they're New York based and I'll see what I can do. But on that note, until next time, bye.

[Justin]

Bye.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

This time of year, everyone talks about going dry. But at Athletic Brewing Co. We're skipping that because we prefer going athletic, which isn't dry at all. From crisp goldens to hoppy IPAs and limited releases in between, you'll find something that fits your style. Every single non alcoholic brew is packed with flavor and the same craft experience you love. So yeah, you could call it dry, but there's really nothing dry about it. Find your new favorite near [e-mail] Athletic Brewing Co. Fit for all times.

[Morgan]

There's a world where legends race across the city skylines. Romance blossoms in glittering ballrooms. And there's magic around every corner. It's a world known to many as Great Britain. You've seen the action on screen. Now visit the real star of the show. Visit Great Britain. To discover more, go to tripadvisor.com Great Britain.