Great Balls of Fire...

Summary

UFO Headquarters – "Great Balls of Fire..."
Hudson River Radio | June 8, 2026
Hosts: Linda Zimmermann & Michael Worden (feat. guest Brian standing in for Mike)

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Episode Overview

This episode of UFO Headquarters dives into the historical phenomenon of "Foo Fighters"—the mysterious orbs and lights that stalked military aircraft during World War II—and explores newly released War Department UAP (Unidentified Aerial Phenomena) files. The hosts also passionately critique Neil DeGrasse Tyson’s public comments on UFOs and the evolving mainstream narrative. Throughout, they contextualize both the historical and contemporary skepticism about UFO witnesses and highlight credible reports from well-documented cases.

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Main Discussion Points and Insights

1. Opening Rant: Scientific Dismissal vs. Credible Witnesses

• [02:31] Brian (standing in for Mike) launches into a critique of Neil DeGrasse Tyson (NDT), calling out his years of televised ridicule and dismissive commentary about UFOs and abductees.
• Notable Quotes:
  • "How big is your ego that you think aliens want to look up your butt?" – Brian, quoting NDT ([04:09])
  • "You do not treat people, you treat people with respect. They went through something. Don't say, oh, yeah, aliens. Why do they want to look up your butt? Oh, you're so funny. You're so funny." – Brian ([12:21])
• Tyson’s new book is framed as opportunistic; Brian accuses him of “cashing in” on a subject he long mocked.
  • "He should call it 'Take Me to Your Wallet'" – Brian ([05:28])
• Linda tempers the rant, noting that interpretation of comments can vary and emphasizes Tyson’s skills as an explainer, not as an experiencer. She points out that not every sighting is “aliens” and that leaping to conclusions isn’t scientific ([04:31], [09:03]).
• Brian stresses that based on decades of fieldwork, many witnesses are genuine, traumatized, and credible—worthy of respect, not ridicule ([11:10]).

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2. The WWII "Foo Fighters": Eye-witness Reports from the War

• [15:09] The episode's core topic is the release of historical UAP files, focusing on WWII and the mysterious "Foo Fighters."
• Foo Fighters: Described as unexplained lights, often red, orange, or green, that would pace, circle, and sometimes “interact” with Allied bombers and fighters across Europe and the Pacific.
  • "The Americans thought it was the Nazis. The Nazis thought it was the Americans. Even in the Pacific. Never been explained." – Brian ([15:03])
• Linda and Brian clarify the seriousness with which military authorities took these reports, highlighting chilling archival descriptions:
  • "Crews have been followed by lights that blink on and off, changing colors... fly formation with our planes... agitating and keep the crews on edge..." – Brian, reading 1st Tactical Air Force memo ([21:08]-[21:50])
• Detailed pilot reports:
  • Green and red T-shaped lights following maneuvers ([23:31])
  • Large orange or red glows that would approach, pace, then peel away—sometimes within 100 feet of aircraft ([25:00]-[29:35])
  • "For that light to pull up rapidly and travel out of sight...within 100ft it's following...that's probably the longest five minutes of that crew's life." – Brian ([29:23]-[29:35])
• Both hosts agree these were taken seriously, not dismissed, and often documented by high-ranking officers ([33:42]).

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3. Official Responses and Classifications

• [39:42] Discussion of War Department memos from the late 1940s, which demonstrate the seriousness with which military intelligence treated “flying discs.”
  • The “phenomenon reported is something real and not visionary or fictitious,” states a Wright Field memo ([43:38]).
  • Descriptions include disk- or elliptical-shaped craft, metallic surfaces, absence of sound or trails, and high maneuverability ([43:50]).
• Detailed procedures were established—forms, chains of command, and inter-agency cooperation—for collecting and analyzing UFO sightings by credible witnesses, especially military personnel ([45:33]).

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4. Post-war Civilian Sightings (Late 1940s)

• [47:07] The hosts cover UAP cases from 1948, including:
  • An “ice-cream cone-shaped” craft seen by a veteran pilot and executive in Louisiana—white-hot, silent, and moving steadily across the sky ([47:07]-[47:45]).
  • A “shiny dime” disk-like object hovering in broad daylight, witnessed by a Texas neon sign manufacturer and professional pilot ([49:07])
  • A strange, semi-transparent, undulating “amoeba-like” craft observed over California by a retired colonel and another witness, with each observer describing the shape differently despite standing together ([51:38]-[53:07]).
• The hosts connect these earlier sightings to contemporary Hudson Valley cases, noting the puzzle of different people perceiving the same UAP phenomena in dramatically different ways ([51:38]-[53:07]).

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Memorable Moments and Quotes

• "[Foo Fighters] didn't show up on radar. They could fly in formation...get within 100ft...seems to be at all different elevations. Damn. That is some scary stuff." – Brian ([33:42])
• "Maybe when you get older, getting socks and underwear for Christmas, you're like, this is cool." – Linda, referencing the “tube socks of ufology” analogy ([16:51])
• "It doesn't leave a whole lot of ambiguity in there." – Linda, on official reports describing disk shapes ([44:16])
• “Flights have been reported containing from three to nine objects flying good formation with each other and speeds of always above 300 knots.” – Brian, reading official memo ([44:22])

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Key Takeaways

• Historical seriousness: From the 1940s onward, UAP encounters were carefully documented at the highest levels, especially when credible military personnel were involved.
• Witnesses deserve respect: The hosts argue strongly for compassionate treatment of experiencers and criticize public figures who use ridicule for entertainment or profit.
• Phenomena remain inexplicable: Despite war-era advances and post-war scrutiny, many reported objects and encounters still defy explanation—both then and now.
• Consistency and credibility: Disk-shaped, maneuverable, and apparently intelligently controlled "craft" were reported by trained observers decades before modern “UFO waves.”
• Interpretation of evidence: The hosts encourage listeners not to leap to unfounded conclusions, but also not to dismiss what is inexplicable simply because “extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.”

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• [02:31] – [12:39]: Rant on Neil DeGrasse Tyson, ridicule vs. respect, and public discourse
• [15:09] – [37:19]: Deep dive into WWII "Foo Fighters" – pilot reports, memos, critical commentary
• [39:42] – [46:46]: Reading and analysis of official Air Force/UAP documentation, 1947–48
• [47:07] – [54:16]: Examination of late 1940s cases; differences in witness perception; tying history to modern reports
• [54:35] – [57:46]: Final reflections, ongoing questions, and reiteration of the need for open-minded inquiry

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Conclusion

Through spirited debate, extensive quoting of archival sources, and practical experience, this episode frames the UFO debate as resting on the shoulders of credible witnesses—pilots, soldiers, and civilians alike—whose observations still have not been fully explained. While advances in science and technology may eventually unravel the truth behind such phenomena, the hosts insist that respect, open-minded skepticism, and continued investigation are essential. The episode ends with encouragement to “keep looking up”—and to support those who dare to report what they’ve seen, even when answers remain out of reach.

Transcript

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[Travis Walton]

Hudsonriverradio.com this is Travis Walton and you are listening to UFO Headquarters. Welcome to UFO Headquarters. Good evening, good morning, good whatever our UFO Headquarters fans out there, thanks for supporting us. Mike is off doing Mike things. He's very, very busy. So Brian, you're on the spot tonight to say or not say whatever you'd like.

[Linda Moulton Howe]

I am completely and totally unprepared for this, which doesn't diminish the amount that I'm looking forward to it. So I'm going to treat it like I do when we do Murder in the Hudson Valley. Like I don't know what you're bringing. So I just sit there with a notepad and a pen and I'm ready

[Travis Walton]

to keep dropping, strap yourself in and react. Or not. So I've been going through more of the UAP files releases from the War Department and I found a bunch of 1940s cases that I want to talk about tonight. But first, but first, I usually don't get steamed up on this show. I save that for Murder in the Hudson Valley.

[Linda Moulton Howe]

There's always plenty of steam.

[Travis Walton]

Yes, there is plenty of steam for tonight because I usually don't. You know, there's a lot of researchers, I use that term loosely, who say and do ridiculous things for money and they give the rest of us a bad name. But I don't call them out generally, let them do what they want to do. That's fine, that's on their conscience. But something happened recently that I can no longer hold my tongue. Mr. Neil DeGrasse Tyson, who actually went on one late night show with a Tinfoil hat with a point on it. And the host had a tinfoil hat. And for years and years and years has been ridiculing, making sarcastic remarks against ufology and witnesses. I pulled out a few things several years ago or I don't know how long ago. He just said, the evidence is so paltry for aliens to visit Earth. I have no further interest. It's like, don't bother me. I'm far too important. If you're abducted when the aliens aren't looking, grab something off the shelf like an ashtray and bring it back for proof, which shows a great grasp and compassion for people who have missing time and experience. Yeah, just grab an ashtray off the shelf. Okay. Call me when you have a dinner invite from an alien. Okay. You know, just these snarky things. Here's, here's. You'll love this one, Brian. I know you'll love this. How big is your ego that you think aliens want to look up your butt? Comments.

[Linda Moulton Howe]

I don't take these comments in the same tone that I think you're taking them because I have listened to a lot of his podcasts and all. He is known behind the scenes for being arrogant and stuck up and all. I've never met the guy, but I have listened. He's really good at explaining things about physics and all that, which is why I listen, because I'm a nerd. I did not interpret those comments, which I did hear from him the same way that you have.

[Travis Walton]

Yes, well, if you have interviewed abductees who are in tears and shaking and still traumatized after years from their experience, you do not take those comments in the same way. How many people witnesses has he interviewed personally? How many people has he sat across and heard their heart wrenching terrifying stories? No, it's all a freaking joke to him. Okay? And then of course, perhaps we've never been visited by aliens because they looked at Earth and decided there was no sign of intelligent life. Yeah, they're probably looking in your office, Neil. Yeah, that's like an old Star Trek thing. Beam me up, Scotty. There's no intelligent life down here. Yeah, okay, so everything's gotta be a joke. He said. He said there is no credible evidence. He mocked and shamed people, but now he can make a profit out of it. He has written the book take me to your leader and on the COVID there's people being sucked up into a ufo. I loved somebody's comment on Amazon said he should call it take me to your wallet because it's a clear cash grab they describe it. America's favorite astrophysicist has written the most entertaining and universally appealing book of his stellar career. A practical guide for dealing with alien visitors and explorations of how it might happen and. And a cultural history of our fascination with extraterrestrials. And Tyson says, ever since childhood, I've wanted to be abducted by aliens. What has happened? Well, with these congressional hearings and pilots and all this and the media taking it seriously, I think he woke up and realized, oh, crap, I'm not only on the wrong side of science, I'm on the wrong side of history. I'm being left behind because all I'm doing is mocking. And now it's serious. So he's saying, well, now there's credible witnesses. Well, guess what, Neil? There have always been credible witnesses, you asshat. You know, if you just wasn't. Were a scientist and studied the facts and interviewed people and reviewed cases, rather than making fun of everybody and just bloviating all day long on, you know, the World According to Neil. So the Kirkus Review said, it's Close encounters of the hilarious kind, a fun romp through the possibility of alien life forms. Of course, readers, some of them are saying, he's a grifter. It's a pile baloney. He's pontificating. Nothing new. Um, it's just infuriating that rather than admit he was wrong and apologize for all his insulting remarks over the years, he's just going to cash in on his ignorance because that's what egomaniacs do. I'm not going to admit I'm wrong and say, geez, I'm sorry, you guys were right. There is something to it. There are credible witnesses. Nope. I'm just going to cash in on a book. I'm furious. Many credible people in the field, this has been a breaking point for them, they're doing the same thing. They're railing against him. It's just you're supposed to be a scientist. When scientists find out they're wrong, they say, I was wrong. Now, I'm going to study this seriously, and no, I'm going to write a book and make a ton of cash and still laugh at everybody. But I just had to get that

[Linda Moulton Howe]

out because, well, I will say a point that he's made, and you'll probably agree with some of your experiences, is that people make the jump. They see something they can't explain, they don't know what it is. So it has to be aliens.

[Travis Walton]

Oh, all the time. Yeah. No, I mean that.

[Linda Moulton Howe]

For me, that's the Biggest takeaway from a lot of his arguments. And I get where you're coming from because I've never sat down across from somebody who's had that experience and all that. But that's also not really a scientific way of approaching it either. That's all.

[Travis Walton]

Well, the scientific way is gathering evidence, not ridiculing what's out, which is what

[Linda Moulton Howe]

you and my student. And you don't say, look, there's a speck on this picture. It's an alien. You don't do that.

[Travis Walton]

No, we do not do that.

[Linda Moulton Howe]

There are a lot of people who do. And I think that was the target of the ridicule. So I get where you're coming from.

[Travis Walton]

He's never taken this. I mean, he said the evidence is so paltry that I have no further interest. You know, he just.

[Linda Moulton Howe]

The whole thing about it being alien, he's always said that. I mean, he's acknowledged that there have been things that have been unidentified.

[Travis Walton]

It's the whole tone from tinfoil hat on late night TV to now take me to your lead. Oh, give me a break. So I am not the only one who has been in.

[Linda Moulton Howe]

I totally. I respect where you're coming from. Absolutely.

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[Linda Moulton Howe]

I think that also shows how comments can be interpreted a couple different ways, depending on how you're looking at it. You know, I haven't had the experiences you have either, going through.

[Travis Walton]

Yeah. I mean, I've spent decades on this. Seriously looking into it. Some people I interviewed, they're just nuts. They're making it up, they're hallucinating. Yeah, I.

[Linda Moulton Howe]

In every field. Every field, there are the cracks.

[Travis Walton]

I've dealt with more than my. But I've been in the trenches, boots on the ground, interviewing people, studying cases. And it's a serious topic that should be taken seriously.

[Linda Moulton Howe]

The jump from saying, I don't know what it is, so it has to be aliens, I would have to agree.

[Travis Walton]

Yeah, that's fine. But that's not what he's been saying. That is not what he's been saying. He's been, you know, he's been ridiculing people and just making light of it. And it's a serious thing. It has been for decades. And there have always been credible witnesses, but you have to do the work to sift out the credible witnesses from the not credible. And you can't dismiss the whole field. It's not worth my time because, you know, go f yourself, Neil. I am just so disgusted by this. You are fired up. I am fired up because he's been insulting to people like me, researchers like me. And he's the worst thing is the witnesses who have the courage to come forward and share some very traumatic and personal things. And then they got to take that crap from him. You know, his comments, that is, that is unconscionable. You do not treat people, you treat people with respect. They went through something. Don't say, oh, yeah, aliens. Why do they want to look up your butt? Oh, you're so funny. You're so funny. Sit down with some credible witnesses and be a scientist for once. So,

[Linda Moulton Howe]

yeah, all right.

[Travis Walton]

I had to get that off my chest.

[Linda Moulton Howe]

All right, so this summer, maybe I can actually participate in something, sit out in a field somewhere. We keep talking about that.

[Travis Walton]

Yes, we have to do some sky watching. And if you want to go and interview some people sometimes sit in. But all right, it's off my chest. I've, I've insult. I've, I've thrown my in. I am most, I am Most displeased, Mr. Tyson. Let's leave it at that. Let's get on to some real cases and let's take our first break so I can drop my blood.

[Linda Moulton Howe]

Take a breather. It's okay. Have a latte. It'll make you feel better.

[Travis Walton]

Hudsonriverradio.com

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[Linda Moulton Howe]

Hudsonriverradio.com your mom likes us.

[Travis Walton]

And we are back. And all is light and wonderful. I'm doing delightful.

[Linda Moulton Howe]

Blood pressure's back down to. Yes. Healthy. What? 170 over 110.

[Travis Walton]

I am cool, calm, and collected, and we will not mention the NDT word again. So let's get on to something serious. As I said, I'm going through a lot of these UAP report releases on the War Department site, and I have a particular interest, I always have, in the Foo Fighters of World War II. Yes, air crews and people on the ground were seeing strange lights around their craft. The Americans thought it was the Nazis. The Nazis thought it was the Americans. Even in the Pacific. Never been explained.

[Linda Moulton Howe]

And the youngins are mystified that that's where the band got their name from.

[Travis Walton]

That's right.

[Linda Moulton Howe]

That's more in my wheelhouse. Oh.

[Travis Walton]

But before. Before that, I have to back up and interject something amusing. I was talking with my friend Art, Dr. Art, who was an early guest on our show, and he was saying, you know, he thinks these file releases, you know, something of a nothing burger. And he said, you know, it's like if your father leaves you a package and says, don't open this for like 75 years. And you're waiting and you're waiting, and finally 75 years comes and you're, you know, you're so excited, and you open the package and it's a pair of tube socks. So I said, in your estimation, these. These file releases are the tube socks of ufology. And.

[Linda Moulton Howe]

Yeah, but when you get older getting socks and underwear for Christmas, you're like, this is co.

[Travis Walton]

This is good. This is good. So I told him. I said, I'm telling that story on the air. Yeah, go ahead. But there's more than tube socks in here. I'm just going to read. And I also want to interject, I have a particular interest from a personal angle in World War II, because my dad was in the 1st Marine Division in Pacific in World War II, Iwo Jima, Okinawa.

[Linda Moulton Howe]

Wow.

[Travis Walton]

In fact, he was wounded by the wing of a kamikaze off of Okinawa. Severe head injury. They wanted to send him home. He was done with the war. Oh, hell no. Then over his bandages, he jammed his helmet and went back to with fighting with his men because he wasn't going to. That's a Marine? Yeah, that's the Marine. He was not going to leave till the war was over. So I've always had a very particular interest in the. In the world. He never really talked about his experiences, as most of them A lot of them would not. But I've read a lot of what the Marines went through in World War II. So, tough guy, tough guy. Okay, so March 13, 1945, an air ministry. That's in England, the Air Ministry. A memo, balls of fire. Red Bomber Command crews have for some time been reporting similar phenomenon. They thought at first maybe it was the German ME262, which was the jet fighter. You know, you're flying along in A, you know, B17, and an ME262 goes rocketing by with jet. You know, you're. Whoa. But this was something different. The whole affair is still something of a mystery. And the evidence is very sketchy and varied so that no definitive, satisfactory explanation can be given. All right, here's another memo. Request for photographs. March of 1945. A lot of these Foo Fighters, these strange lights following encircling aircraft, were kind of 44 to 45. There probably were some earlier. But they're requesting photos be furnished for pictures of the long cylindrical objects seen by the 107th Squadron pilots. Long cylindrical objects around, you know, their passing. Okay, could be several things. But again, these are the things they kept classified for some of.

[Linda Moulton Howe]

So they felt, especially World War II was known. I mean, secrecy was paramount with new technology and all that kind of stuff.

[Travis Walton]

So, yeah, you don't know what it is. Is it another, you know, Is it another V1, V2 type?

[Linda Moulton Howe]

At the time, the mindset wasn't it's aliens. The mindset is, oh, my God, this is enemy technology. That's so much better. How did they do it?

[Travis Walton]

Kind of thing. Exactly. Here's another one night phenomena. 2-12-45. And in view of the fact that pilots and crews are becoming slightly worried. That's British for you. We're becoming slightly worried by them. It is considered that everything possible should be done to get to the root of the matter. Again, January 16, 1945. Another subject night phenomenon. From the commanding General of the 1st Tactical Air Force. We have encountered a phenomenon which we cannot explain. Crews have been followed by lights that blink on and off, changing colors. The lights come very close and fly formation with our planes. They are agitating and keep the crews on edge when they encounter them, mainly because they cannot explain them. It is requested further information be furnished on this subject and including similar experiences from other night units. Before an investigation can be made, it will be necessary to have more complete information, such as colors of lights, their intensity, size, duration, and at what altitudes were they seen. Also, if the lights are observed at any specific hours, so they're doing the right thing. Let's get information. Is there a pattern? Are they only at 2am over Germany? Are they, you know, they don't know what the hell they're dealing with. I love the crews are being agitated.

[Linda Moulton Howe]

Yeah, I like that. Their teacups are rattling.

[Travis Walton]

I almost dropped my scone. Allied line, you know they. Over Allied lines. The direction of travel. Also it. Has it been noted on what part of the aircraft they are being seen? Are they around the wing, the tail, the prop? And how close do they approach? So they're. They're doing the right thing. Hang on one moment. The sun has apparently gone behind a cloud. So I can't, I can't see my notes. I have to turn on my light here. Okay, so Here is the 415th Night Fighter Squadron Tactical Air Command. So these are high level, you know, this isn't Joe the mechanic saying hey, I heard from. This is high level, you know. This is the Tactical Air Command in compliance with paragraph blah blah blah, the following extracts of sortie reports. So they have Garrett gathered from all of these different pilots. So I'm just, I'm just going to read through. It's a list of probably about a dozen of them, but. Night of December 14th, 15th, 1944, in the vicinity of Erstein, flying at 1,000ft, observed a large red light at 2,000ft going east, traveling approximately 200 miles per hour. The night of the 16th and 17th, December 44, 20 miles north of Breisach at 800ft, observed five or six flashing red and green lights in a T shape. Thought they were flak. Well, flak usually doesn't fly in formation. About 10 minutes later saw the same lights much closer and behind me. We turned port and starboard and the lights followed. They closed in to about eight o' clock at a thousand feet and remained in that portion for several minutes and then disappeared. So we have these green and red lights flying in formation, following as the plane turns. It's not flak, right? Flak comes shooting down.

[Linda Moulton Howe]

Yeah, it's not going to chase you.

[Travis Walton]

No information.

[Linda Moulton Howe]

Right.

[Travis Walton]

December 22, 23rd December 1944. Patrolling at Angels 10 from Saraborg to Strasbourg North. At 600 hours saw lights coming toward aircraft from the ground. Upon reaching altitude of the plane, they leveled off and stayed on my tail for approximately two minutes. Again, you see lights coming up. You think it's flak coming up. Oh crap. They don't level off and then start following you. Lights appeared to be large orange glow. After staying with the aircraft for approximately two minutes they would peel off and turn away, fly along level for a few minutes, then go out. They appeared to be under perfect control at all times. All right. I could see where this would be very disconcerting.

[Linda Moulton Howe]

I would think so. Especially not knowing, you know, what kind of technology you're up against, maybe, or what.

[Travis Walton]

Yeah, yeah. Is this some sort of smart, you know, artillery shells that can follow heat seeking that can follow up a plane? Night of December 23rd, 24th, December 44, again observed reddish colored flames at considerable distance and approximately 10,000ft. Same night, approximately 10 miles south of Point X, noticed to northeast approximately 5 miles, a glowing red object shooting straight up, changed suddenly and then came over the wing of the aircraft. Then went into a dive and disappeared. All right. Yes. 26 27-12-44 at 145 hours, saw two yellow streaks of flame flying at the same level approximately 3,000ft off the port side. That's pretty close. 1,000 to 3,000ft off the port side of your plane. That's uncomfortable.

[Linda Moulton Howe]

Absolutely.

[Travis Walton]

Yeah. We also saw red balls of fire that stayed up for 10 seconds approximately 45 miles away. That's a good distance. That's a safe distance. After seeing yellow streaks made starboard vector lost altitude and the streaks disappeared from view. Called to see if there were any bogeys in the vicinity. They answered no, instructed to return. So he's doing evasive maneuvers to get away from these. They were instructed to get back on course, whatever their mission was. Notice several groups of light off port. While patrolling in vicinity of such and such vector, lights made distinct lines, somewhat like arrows. Okay. Again, no weapons that I can think of. Obviously they couldn't think of anything.

[Linda Moulton Howe]

Sure.

[Travis Walton]

Same night, While on Vector 090 during patrol, we observed airborne white lights. They were staggered evenly vertically and we could see them from one to four at swing at once they appeared stationary at 10,000ft. So again in formation, they move as one. One to four of them swinging around as one. That's a good trick. Same night observed light at same altitude while in vicinity of worms. Observer saw light come to within 100ft, peeled off and took evasive action. But light continued to follow for 5 minutes. Light then pulled up rapidly and went out of sight 100ft from your aircraft. This light, that's. You're probably thinking, I'm going down. Yeah, right.

[Linda Moulton Howe]

I mean that. Oof.

[Travis Walton]

Yes. And it following you for that's probably the longest five minutes of that crew's life. So within 100ft it's following and that

[Linda Moulton Howe]

five minutes from a pilot like that is going to be a real five minute. Like nowadays people's perception when their adrenaline is going full speed. Oh, my God. It was 10 minutes and it was 45 seconds.

[Travis Walton]

Right? Right.

[Linda Moulton Howe]

Which is understandable because, you know, time slows down when you're in a panic. But I think when you're dealing with a pilot, that five minutes is going to be much more accurate than.

[Travis Walton]

Yes, yes. And then for this light to pull up rapidly and travel out of sight. These are remarkable. I mean, we've heard a lot of Foo fighter cases, but this, you know, night after night, the following night, 27th, 28th, December 44, while on north heading in patrol area, noticed in vicinity Q13 78 lights suspended in the air, moving slowly and then would disappear. Orange in color. Lights appeared singly and in pairs. Observe these lights four or five times during this period. Same night, eight miles northeast of Luna Ville at 1910 hours. Saw three sets of three lights from red and white, one on the starboard and one on the port from 1,000 to 2,000ft to the rear and closing. Pulled up to Angels 8 and lights went out. Called churchmen to see if there was anything in the area. Reserved a negative reply. So he's got them on the right, he's got them on the left, he's got them behind. They're going out, they're going around him. Damn, he's move. You know, evasive action. These are not just, gee, I wonder what that is. This is like, oh, my God, pull up, pull down, get. They're trying to save their lives here because again. And nothing on radar. Nothing on radar. Night of the 31st, saw a group of lights flying through the air. This is 30 to 40 miles away. All right. That, that could be anything.

[Linda Moulton Howe]

Right?

[Travis Walton]

And here. Fine. Night of 1st 2nd January 1945, saw Foo Fighters north of Strasbourg and north of Severn. So they're calling them Foo fighters. I don't know when they first started, but this. He put it in the report. Saw Foo Fighters January 14th, 15th, observed a large orange glow in the sky five feet in diameter. That's not big, but it's big enough. That's what I was thinking. What is that five foot light? You know, just two more. Night of 29:30, January 45, sighted a Foo fighter about halfway between Wiesembourg and Landau. Foo fighter was off to the starboard and rear at Angel's. Two lights were amber and one was 20 to 50ft above the other. And of about 30 seconds duration. Foo fighter was about a thousand Feet away and following the lights were about a foot in diameter. Lights disappeared when Travel 34 turned into them. So apparently somebody else probably turned towards them and they took off. But I assume they appeared to be a foot in diameter from 1,000ft away. I'm not sure how to interpret but again, next time you're in a plane flying along, picture something just a, you know, a five foot ball of light a thousand feet from your plane moving towards you.

[Linda Moulton Howe]

Yeah. I'm more worried about the gremlins on the wing first.

[Travis Walton]

You and William Shatner. Okay. And in one last thing. In every case where pilot called ground control and asked if there was a bogey aircraft in. In the area received a negative answer. So they had no idea what they were. They're calling. Look, I've got this. Here is it. You have an aircraft coming at me. Nope, we have. So they didn't show up on radar. They could fly in formation as the one guy said, perfect control. Get within 100ft of your craft. Seems to be at all different elevations. Damn. That is some. That's some scary stuff. That is some scary stuff. So that's what I have. That's what was in this latest release. And they have no explanation. They've.

[Linda Moulton Howe]

How many different things have come about. I haven't looked into it nearly as much as you but you know, things like plasma because of superheated air and all that stuff. Stuff which kind of makes sense I guess depending on their speed and might explain following them in formation because it's coming off your aircraft. But yeah, not all of it.

[Travis Walton]

Not T shaped.

[Linda Moulton Howe]

Right. Right.

[Travis Walton]

Going to your starboard, going to your right and taking off, coming back.

[Linda Moulton Howe]

Right. Right.

[Travis Walton]

That's. Yeah. The perfect control though. Yes. Some of them I saw lights 40 miles off, you know.

[Linda Moulton Howe]

Okay, thank you for reporting it. Keep it coming.

[Travis Walton]

Yeah, I saw something 5ft in diameter, 100ft off my wings circling my craft. I evasive action and it's following me. Okay, that's. That will get your attention. So why don't we take our second break and then I have some other 1940s cases to ramble on about. This is HudsonRiverRadio.com your local Rockland county station.

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[Travis Walton]

This is hudsonriverradio.com. And we are back. So what do you think of Foo Fighters?

[Linda Moulton Howe]

It's fascinating. It really is. When, you know, I mean, a time of such stress worldwide and what these guys were doing. And to me, pilots, you know, the guys on the ground, I can't even imagine pilots not that far behind. The amount of stress that they were under and the job that they did is just amazing. And then to add this on top of it. Yeah. Not knowing what you're dealing with on top of everything that you know you're dealing with.

[Travis Walton]

That's right. The fear of the unknown.

[Linda Moulton Howe]

And, you know, I've always been, you know, a big part of World War II history for me was the innovation that happened. And just on the music side that I do over there, you know, like recording technology and all that kind of stuff that came from all of this. So much that we have now came from the necessity.

[Travis Walton]

Oh, absolutely.

[Grainger Announcer]

Yeah.

[Travis Walton]

The technology increase. But even with all that technology increase and the. The Nazi rockets and jets and, you know, secret weapons and all that, nobody could explain it. And at the same time, the Luftwaffe pilots are saying, oh, God, what do the Americans have? What are these lights following us? You know, so after the war, of course, they find out both sides were equally baffled and terrorized by these. Correct me if I'm wrong, somebody get in touch with me. But I don't know of any of them ever harming an aircraft in any way or downing an aircraft. It just seemed they were observing and terrorizing.

[Linda Moulton Howe]

Right, right. I mean, I think at this point, the ones that were following the aircraft that closely have to be an anomaly being caused by the aircraft either, you know, I don't know, just thinking, I don't know, the friction, pieces of metal coming off and burning up because of the friction, that kind of, you know, I don't know.

[Travis Walton]

Did it happen to civilian pilots over the US or other countries then?

[Linda Moulton Howe]

I don't know. But I don't know if they were going at the same speed either.

[Travis Walton]

Yeah, I don't know about this happening post war or I don't know. You know, obviously it was weird and unsettling enough that they saved all these files and you know, you had commanding generals saying could we please find out what this is? Our crews are freaking out here. But post war there was in these files. I thought some of these were very interesting, you know, Whereas for the most part the government even early on was nothing to see here. Move along. Well, here's a memo from 47September the subject opinion concerning flying discs, okay? Wright Field, which became Wright Patterson. So you had people from the aircraft laboratory, engineering divisions, Air Institute of technology, chief of engineering, aircraft power plant and propeller laboratories. So all these people are like, come on, let's all get together and what's going on? So here's the official opinion. The phenomenon reported is something real and not visionary or fictitious. That's a big statement. There are objects probably approximating the shape of a disk of such appreciable size as to appear as large as a man made aircraft. Some of it could be natural such as meteors, but obviously not maneuverable disks. The reported operating characteristics such as extreme rates of climb, maneuverability, particularly in role and action, which must be considered evasive when sighted or contacted by frame. Friendly aircraft and radar lend belief to the possibility that some of the objects are controlled either manually, automatically or remotely. So they're maneuvering and they're evading those who are. Yeah. I don't know how friendly they would look upon it if jet fighters armed to the teeth are pursuing them. Hey, we're friends. I'm locked and loaded. Another common thing, metallic or light reflecting surfaces, absence of trails, circular or elliptical in shape, flat bottom and domed on top. This is an official document here. Normally no associated sound. How many times have we heard that in the Hudson Valley wave level flight speeds normally above 300 knots are estimated. The possibility that some foreign nation has a form of propulsion, possibly nuclear, which is outside our domestic knowledge. So that's a huge concern. Oh, what if the Russians have nuclear powered ships that are flying can fly circles around U.S. headquarters army air Forces issue a directive assigning a priority security classification for A detailed study of this matter and goes on. We want all these agencies involved. They are taking it very seriously. They are clearly disk shaped. They are maneuverable under intelligent control. And again, they talk about metallic. Let's see, this is kind of size estimates. Estimates place them somewhere between the size of a C54 or constellation. Those are big aircraft. So the disk the size of a C54 or a constellation. And again, they're saying they have flat bottoms, they have domes on top and they're discs. Okay, pretty descriptive.

[Linda Moulton Howe]

It doesn't leave a whole lot of, you know, ambiguity in there.

[Travis Walton]

Flights have been reported containing from three to nine objects flying good formation with each other and speeds of always above 300 knots. What is 300 knots in miles per hour? I should have looked.

[Linda Moulton Howe]

You know what, we can, we can solve that one.

[Travis Walton]

All right, and while you solve that, while I'm reading the last thing here, the disks oscillate laterally while flying along, which could be snaking. I don't know what that means.

[Linda Moulton Howe]

I don't know. 345 miles an hour.

[Travis Walton]

Okay, so they're always traveling above 345 miles per hour, which is a good minimum clip back then. Here's another memo. This is from February 48. It is the Air Force policy not to ignore reports of sighting and phenomena in the atmosphere, but to recognize that part of its mission is to collect, collate, evaluate and act on information of this nature. In implementing this policy, the Air Materiel Command has been designated for the Air Force to collect, collate, evaluate and distribute to interested government agencies and contractors all information concerning sightings and phenomenon which can be construed to concern for national security. So they're worried. Seriously worried. Again, in these reports, location and time, weather names, occupations, addresses, photographs if available. The number, the shape, the size. So these are all things that are in our present day UFO reports. As of 1948, the Air Force was distributing these. Remember we covered that, I think in the last one that, you know, in New Mexico there, the atomic Energy. Oh, here's our UFO reporting form. You have what?

[Linda Moulton Howe]

It happens so often you made a form, you know, that's the first clue.

[Travis Walton]

That's right. And then I just have a couple of cases that they included. This is in Ascension, Paris, a parish outside of New Orleans. Are you familiar with.

[Linda Moulton Howe]

I've been there. Okay. You know, I wasn't specifically looking up. I guess I should have been.

[Travis Walton]

No, wherever you go, you need to look up. This is October of 48. RB1 willingness, president of United Land Company at 219 Dry 80 Street, New Orleans. And he has considerable flying experience. He sees a craft that is ice cream cone shaped. I dealt with one of those in Pine Bush.

[Linda Moulton Howe]

I've heard that before.

[Travis Walton]

Yeah, very rare. I think I could count the cases on.

[Linda Moulton Howe]

When it gets too hot, that's it, too hot.

[Travis Walton]

And this was white hot. An ice cream cone approximately the length of a passenger aircraft. And it goes on and describes the time is very, very good report. And he said no noise, no trail, traveling in a straight line from west to east, neither gaining nor losing altitude. So a level flight, no visible means of propulsion and you know you can go. The object displayed no lights other than what appeared to be like a heat emanating from it. Very good, credible witness. So you can look up this case in In Louisiana of October 48, Santa Fe, New Mexico. I think we did about 10 New Mexico cases this last year. September 23, 1948, Santa Fe, New Mexico. A rubble Angier. How do you have a name of Rubble? Ruble. R U B L E A Ruble Angier on Proctor street in Waco, Texas. He's a neon sign manufacturer. I bet he made some cool stuff.

[Linda Moulton Howe]

Oh yeah.

[Travis Walton]

He's been a pilot since 1928. Professional pilot for 20 years. He sees the glint of something in the sky while watching another aircraft. He says it's perfectly flat in appearance compared to a dime in the sky. This is a daylight sighting just hanging there. It didn't seem to have much motion. It's a long detailed. I won't go into all of it. He judges the altitude. I mean again, a pilot of 20 years seeing what he described as a shiny dime up in the sky at least 100 to 150ft in diameter. That's a big honking dime. In other words, disc shaped silver cited in daylight so you can look, you can get all the details there. And one last one. September 23rd again, 1948 at approximately 1200. So that's noon. Correct. Castro's ranch, four miles due east of San Pablo, California. Okay. It gives the names Horace Eskins. It's hard, some of these things are blurred. He was a colonel, a retired colonel in the U.S. army living on Esther Drive in Walnut Creek, California. So, you know, should be decent observer. Was observing an army bomber when he observed an unknown flying object above the bomber. Okay, interesting. The body of the craft was transparent and a dirty gray color. This is weird. Undulating with the center portion appearing spherical, having the shape and depth similar to a globe. But around it was like an amoeba. Like, undulating thing. We've heard these before. People describe them as like amoebas or squid. You know, these undulating things, those flocks of birds that.

[Linda Moulton Howe]

You see the videos where they're all kind of.

[Travis Walton]

I guess. But he said semi transparent with a globe in the middle of it, very fast speed that he couldn't even estimate. And he was standing. It's a long description, but he was standing next to someone else who saw the same thing. But he said that it looked rectangular outline with sharp corners, but had some sort of translucent, undulating material around it. And they even say these guys were standing right next to one another and had conflicting reports. One saw a sphere, the other saw a rectangle, but they both saw this amoeba, like, stuff around. Maybe it was a mist, maybe it was plasma, who knows? But this reminded me so much of the pine bush story where there are. Our two friends were standing there, and one saw what looked like a long red bar, and the other saw what looked like a merry go. No, a. What's the thing that goes around? The Ferris wheel. Ferris wheel, sorry. Like a Ferris wheel on fire. And they're standing right next to each other, like the case in. Nearby here, where in the 90s where some people saw a black triangle, others saw a brightly lit disc. They're standing shoulder to shoulder and they see different things. So I thought this was. And this is 1948, where two very reliable people, one of them, a retired colonel, is seeing. And it's interesting, it's over a bomber. It's like, kind of following it. So, yeah, you can go to the War Department, look up the UAP document releases. You can read all of these. It would take another hour to read them all. But I want to give people an idea of what's in there and how much was going on. We're talking 44, 45, 48. A long time ago. And the government was hanging on to these as classified information. And they're great reports by credible witnesses.

[Linda Moulton Howe]

Yeah. Just all through World War II. The. The amount of data that was collected and actually used is something I think that gets overlooked, you know. So all these reports and all that, they were all collected. You know, I don't know how long it took to sort and go through and.

[Travis Walton]

Right.

[Linda Moulton Howe]

Make heads and tails of it, but, yeah, they did.

[American Express Announcer]

Yeah.

[Travis Walton]

Neil Tyson back in the 40s, very credible pilots were seeing this stuff. You want to make fun of them? Sorry I had to bring that up again. I'm still steamed.

[Linda Moulton Howe]

You were doing so well.

[Travis Walton]

I know. I couldn't Have. But these are such. Credible. Their lives are on. Like you said, their lives are on the line. They got to put up with the

[Linda Moulton Howe]

people that go, we don't know what it is, so it has to be. And then they fill in a blank.

[Travis Walton]

He goes beyond that in ridicule, but. And nobody was saying they're aliens here, but these are credible. No, these are credible. Inexplicable. And worried the hell out of Cruz because you want to get home alive. You don't know what these things are and what they're going to do to you. And obviously all the way up to tactical command, air Command, we got to find out. We got to protect our crews, what the hell is going on. And no one had answers. And to this day, no one has answers for a lot of it. Some of it, like you said, may was some natural phenomenon, but a lot of this. Nope.

[Grainger Announcer]

No.

[Travis Walton]

So, yeah, so I can't wait. I don't know when the next document drop is supposed to occur, but.

[Linda Moulton Howe]

Oh, I have my opinions on that. I get fired up just, you know, when the next other file section is about to be released, you're going to see a giant dump of other distracting kind of things.

[Travis Walton]

Yeah. I'm hoping we get beyond the tube sock files and let's get the real meaty things out there. But some of the videos. I don't know if you've watched any of the videos.

[Linda Moulton Howe]

I've seen a few. I've seen it.

[American Express Announcer]

Yeah.

[Travis Walton]

Some. They're going in the water, out of the water.

[Linda Moulton Howe]

90s and later. I've seen. Seen a few of those.

[Travis Walton]

Yeah. Some of those.

[Linda Moulton Howe]

They.

[Travis Walton]

And they just. They're moving along and then they are rapid. Rapid acceleration. I mean, if you were a person in that. And it took off like that, they scraped you. Yeah. Scraping you off the wall of your aircraft. So it's. It's not the smoking gun, but it's good stuff. It's good stuff and it's worth. Take the time. And if you don't want to sit there like I do, going through every file. There's a bazillion people on YouTube and everything, all these other platforms that are gathering it, collating it and giving you, you know, enough to.

[Linda Moulton Howe]

That's good stuff. Because there is an explanation for everything. We just don't have it yet. So don't fill in that gap with, no, it's not this. So it has to be that.

[Travis Walton]

Right.

[Linda Moulton Howe]

Without.

[Travis Walton]

But when a fighter pilot is saying, what the hell is that? We can't do that, then that takes that Puts it up a notch.

[Linda Moulton Howe]

It does. It doesn't explain what it is, obviously, which is the whole point of the discussion today. But, yes, yes, it's the. The ones who fill in that blank with what else could it be that. Then you lose me.

[Travis Walton]

Well, I think in retrospect now, how many years ago was the 1940s that we did not have the technology for doing the things those things were doing, you know, around our conventional aircraft, you know, puttering along with its propeller engines. And these things are literally flying circles. We didn't have that. The Russians didn't have that. Nobody in Europe had that. So what the hell?

[Linda Moulton Howe]

All right, keep plugging away. We'll figure it out. Maybe I'll be serving coffee when you guys do all the hard work in the big reveal.

[Travis Walton]

Sounds good. Sounds good. All right. Take us out.

[Linda Moulton Howe]

Me, I never. Take us out of ufo.

[Travis Walton]

You take us out of ufo.

[Linda Moulton Howe]

Oh, my God. I should have written down what Mike usually says.

[Travis Walton]

Oh, make up your own.

[Mistplay Announcer]

Make your own.

[Linda Moulton Howe]

Me, I do appreciate it. It's good to see you fired up every once in a while. Every time we get together, we find something that gets you good. Thanks for having me. Thank you all for joining Linda and your guest co host here on UFO Headquarters. We will see you next time. Maybe I'll be here, maybe I won't and. All right, keep looking up. See ya. Hudsonriverradio.com

[Grainger Procurement Manager Announcer]

Grainger knows. When you're a procurement manager for an office park, you're not managing one building, you're managing all of them. And to stay ahead, you need to see through walls and around corners. Lights about to fail, filters ready to clog H Vac on its last leg. If you wait until something breaks, you're already behind. Count on Grainger for quality products, easy reordering and 247 support. Call 1-800-granger click granger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.