Our Wish List

Summary

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UFO Headquarters: "Our Wish List"

Podcast: UFO Headquarters (HudsonRiverRadio.com)
Hosts: Linda Zimmermann, Michael Worden
Date: August 10, 2026
Guest: Chris Burns

Episode Overview

This episode of UFO Headquarters, titled “Our Wish List,” is a collaborative deep-dive into the unresolved mysteries, elusive files, and long-lost witnesses in the world of Hudson Valley and Pine Bush UFO lore. Linda Zimmermann, Michael Worden, and returning guest researcher Chris Burns invite listeners to help track down key information and materials that could fill gaps in UFO history. The hosts also share the importance of preserving the legacy of past researchers and gathering lost records, all while peppering the discussion with local anecdotes, humor, and a sense of community.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Community and Unexpected Connections

[02:06] – [03:41]

• Brian, the studio engineer, shares a story about being recognized on the Palisades Parkway by a fan due to the “Hudson River Radio” logo.
• Demonstrates the passionate and engaged UFO community in the area.

"Are you the UFO Headquarters people? And I was like, yeah... Oh my God, I love that show. When's the next one coming out?" – Brian [02:13]

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2. The Episode's Central Theme: The UFO Mystery Wish List

[04:24] – [55:35] The majority of the episode is structured around the panel's “UFO Wish Lists”—files, witnesses, and unsolved cases they hope to find or learn more about. The intention is to reach a wider audience who might have leads or missing information.

a) Ellenville CE5 Group (Chris Burns)

[04:54] – [07:22]

• Circa mid-2010s: A group in Ellenville, NY, practiced CE5 (summoning UFOs) at a farm.
• The organizer has since left, and little documentation exists about the group's success and methods. Chris is interested in any details about members, activities, or whether the group still exists.

"There was a group of people meeting at an undisclosed farm in Ellenville, having great success manifesting phenomena..." – Chris [05:16]

Contact: [e-mail]

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b) Lost Files of Pete Mazzola & Jim Philo (Linda Zimmermann)

[07:29] – [10:46]

• Pete Mazzola: Staten Island detective, Vietnam veteran, founder of the Scientific Bureau of Investigation (SBI) and publisher of a notable 1979–1985 newsletter.
  • UFO encounter during Vietnam War allegedly saved his unit from enemy fire.
• Jim Philo: Collaborator from East Brunswick, NJ. Both conducted significant interviews and casework, with their unpublished material potentially lost.
• Linda is searching for any surviving records or contacts.

"If anyone has Pete Mazzola's files or Jim Philo's files...they must have had some amazing cases." – Linda [09:16]

Contact: [e-mail]

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c) Law Enforcement and UFOs (General)

[10:46] – [11:38]

• Increasing numbers of police and emergency workers discuss UFO/paranormal experiences openly, whereas decades ago such conversations would have been secretive.

"20 something years ago, no one would have told you this stuff...Now it's just like, yeah, they're talking about it openly." – Michael [11:01]

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d) Rick Moran’s Missing Research (Chris Burns)

[14:55] – [17:32]

• Rick Moran (Association for the Study of Unexplained Phenomena – ASUP): Focused on Shawangunk Mountains, military rumors, and anomalous underground noises, passed away after moving to Texas.
• Chris seeks any of Moran’s papers, data, or family connections.

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e) The Stormville Flyers: The Cessna Hoaxers – Ultimate Wish List (Linda Zimmermann)

[18:02] – [27:21]

• In the 1980s, major UFO sightings were frequent; soon after, a group of local pilots would fly Cessnas and ultralights in formation in those same areas, muddying the waters.
• Some members were allegedly paid to imitate UFO sightings, possibly tipped off by the FAA—potential government connections suspected.
• Many relatives know the truth but remain silent.
• Linda names several pilots (Ivan Hirsch, Peter Dine, Angelo Marifiotti, Rick Christensen, Jeff Bauman) and appeals for logbooks and confession.
• Impact: Their actions confused legitimate UFO reports; their silence persists due to vows of secrecy or possible legal liability.

"They were being paid by someone, probably the government...What the hell was the FAA calling these people to tell them to then, you know, mimic what had just been seen?" – Linda [22:58]

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f) Additional Drone/Plane Hoax Groups

[27:37] – [30:43]

• Chris describes a less organized group mimicking UFOs near Pine Bush from a small Orange County airstrip.
• Mentions anecdotal reports and hints on social media suggesting more such activities.

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g) Rumors of a CIA Airstrip Near Pine Bush

[29:50] – [33:36]

• Hosts discuss a rumored abandoned CIA airstrip near Pine Bush, NY, possibly once used for clandestine missions.
• Anecdotes of planes dropping people into fields; speculation about its use in the 1980s–90s.
• Plans for hosts to try to visit the site with museum and county connections.

"I was not aware of a CIA airstrip. That is intriguing..." – Michael [32:03]

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h) 1970s Public Officials' UFO Study Group

[36:06] – [38:49]

• Chris reveals that even before the famous 1980s wave, local public servants (possibly first responders from Montgomery, NY) were skywatching in the 1970s, with good equipment and camouflage.
• Suggests there may be undiscovered photographic evidence from this group.

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i) Research on Military Exercises and Convoys

[43:11] – [45:09]

• The hosts ask for information related to military presence in rural Hudson Valley—stories of night-time convoys, parachute drops, and exercises far from established bases.
• Could explain rumors or sightings that have circulated for years.

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j) Early Internet Anomalies & Cyberspace Psyops

[45:16] – [48:13]

• Chris recalls a mysterious early AOL-era website claiming military investigators became sick during UFO encounters in West Searsville.
• The site's language almost parodied/imitated a psychological operation (psyop).
• Seeks the page's creator, known only by a nickname, for clarification.

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k) Northern Hotspot – Accord, NY

[48:29] – [49:59]

• Chris highlights the Accord area as a local hotspot.
• Interested in non-famous, general anomalous sightings there and stories from longtime residents (references to certain well-known families and residents without naming names).

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l) Preserving the Legacy: UFOS Group and Their Meetings

[50:26] – [53:19]

• Chris invites memories from attendees of the historic UFOS group, founded by Dawn Lay and others in Pine Bush.
• The meetings, now legendary, contributed much to local UFO lore and community.
• The group is referenced in pop culture (e.g., TBS’s People of Earth).

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m) Account of Group Missing Time Event

[52:22] – [53:23]

• Chris recounts an incident where a group of 20+ people experienced “missing time” during a skywatch—a classic but rarely mass-witnessed phenomenon.

"We did have an incident where everybody in a specific area seemed to lose like, an hour..." – Chris [53:16]

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n) Lost Material from George Lesnick

[40:41] – [41:56]

• Fairfield, CT police lieutenant Lesnick was deeply involved in both Connecticut and Hudson Valley UFO flaps in the '80s; rumored to have taped witness interviews (e.g., from Indian Point nuclear facility).
• Linda has tried but failed to recover audio materials from family contacts.

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3. Reflections on the UFO Research Tradition

[39:45] – [40:41]; [55:16] – [56:35]

• The hosts stress the importance of building on prior research, gathering oral histories, and responsibly passing data to future generations of UFO investigators.

"We're just temporary custodians today of moving the information forward...to pass that information on to...future researchers..." – Michael [39:45]

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Memorable Quotes

• Linda (on Stormville pilots):
  "After all these years, I've gotten so close. One woman was so close to tell me, but she said no, we were sworn to secrecy as kids. And she said, there's so much to tell, but there's so much not to tell." [23:58]

• Chris (on early Pine Bush history):
  "Reports date back to the early part of the 20th century at least, but modern history, I guess, kind of begins where Ellen Crystal’s book starts in 1980..." [36:06]

• Michael (on moving UFO research forward):
  "It is our responsibility today to remember…we're just part of a big, long, continuous process..." [39:45]

• Linda (on missing time):
  "Get 20 people together and all have a group missing time…you'll have something to talk about forever." [54:28]

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Notable "Wish List" Items (w/ Timestamps)

• Ellenville CE5 group knowledge: [04:54]
• Pete Mazzola & Jim Philo files: [07:29]
• Rick Moran’s research: [14:55]
• Stormville Flyers pilot confession/logs: [18:02]
• Pine Bush 1970s officials group: [36:06]
• George Lesnick/Indian Point tapes: [40:41]
• Info on military convoys/exercises: [43:11]
• Early Internet/website psyops: [45:16]
• Accord, NY non-famous sightings: [48:29]
• Memories from the UFOS group: [50:26]
• Large group missing time event: [52:22]

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Calls to Action

• If you have any leads or materials related to the above wish list items, contact:

  • Linda: [e-mail]
  • Chris: [e-mail] or visit pinebushanomaly.com

• Listeners are invited to submit their own wish lists or stories.

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Conclusion

The episode is a lively exchange of research hopes, urban legend confirmations, and a celebration of UFO investigating as a generational, communal project. The hosts and guest Chris Burns showcase their blend of curiosity, skepticism, and reverence for both the known and the unknown in Hudson Valley’s rich UFO tapestry.

"There’s so much new stuff to learn, but there’s so much old stuff that’s still, we can dig up. We can mine all of these collections, hopefully, if we can find them and if we can find these people..." – Linda [55:35]

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Contact info, show notes, and more at HudsonRiverRadio.com
Next ep: “CIA Airstrip Skywatch” – date TBA

Transcript

[A]

We the ones still showing up holding hands.

[B]

When times are done, show up for your community with be the people we

[A]

connect community organizations with. The millions of Americans ready to do their part.

[B]

Tap to learn more.

[C]

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[A]

Hudsonriverradio.com this is Travis Walton, and you are listening to UFO Headquarters. Welcome to UFO Headquarters.

[B]

Welcome to UFO headquarters. I have to tell you, Linda. This is Michael Warden with Linda Zimmerman. We have a special guest we'll talk to in a minute. But, Linda, as you may know, I just came back from another planet. I was in Iceland for 10 days, and you can feel. It really does feel like another planet sometimes.

[D]

All those photos were amazing. And those lenticular clouds, those were aliens.

[B]

I'm convinced that was the mothership.

[D]

It was the mothership on top of the mother.

[B]

I've never seen that before, ever.

[D]

Like that.

[B]

That clear. They looked almost fake. So very cool. If you want to go to another planet, go to Iceland. You can actually forget you're on Earth. Like, literally, that's what it feels like. But that's not why we're here tonight. We are here because we have a special guest. But we also have Brian, who's running the studio, of course, from his new location, which we're not allowed to talk about. It's top secret. It's our UFO headquarters. Supreme Headquarters.

[D]

But Supreme.

[E]

Supreme. Love it. I'm actually in Sasquatch territory.

[B]

Oh, even better.

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, Brian had an interesting story he related to us a couple days ago, which I think we'd love for you to share with the audience. Brian.

[E]

I. I just thought it was funny. Yeah. I was on my way up to Sasquatch territory. You know, are in the process of moving, and I'm sitting on the Palisades Parkway, dead stop, nobody's going anywhere. And this guy next to me just starts freaking out, asked me to roll down the window, and he goes, are you the UFO Headquarters people? And I was like, yeah. Cause the Hudson river radio logo's on my truck. And I was like, yeah, yeah. Oh, My God, I love that show. When's the next one coming out? Happiest guy in the world. Happiest could be just one in a million chance. And I couldn't get his name. There was a lot of noise and we started moving a bit and all that. But there is a happy guy that was sitting on the Palisades that I know is hearing this right now. It was in a white Jeep. He was in a white Jeep Wrangler. So I appreciate it. I'm sorry we didn't get a chance to chat a little bit more, but that was very. A cool and surprising interaction.

[D]

I love it.

[B]

So what you're saying is the guy has good taste because he likes our show and he likes Jeep Wranglers, as everybody knows I'm a fan of.

[E]

So, yeah, there you go.

[B]

Thank you, whoever you are. Thank you. We really appreciate that. That support and that. That you listen and feel free to send out those messages. Say, hey, this is who. This is me.

[E]

Yeah, definitely.

[B]

I was the Pip guy.

[E]

Yeah. If you're familiar with the north end of the Palisades Parkway on a Friday night, I made a bad decision to leave, but I didn't have much of a choice. But yeah, it's. You're going to be sitting for a while. And I was. But here we are.

[D]

Here we are. Excellent. All right, so we do have a special guest. Our return. Is this two or three now, Mr. Burns?

[A]

I think it's three.

[D]

Three. Yeah, yeah, yeah. At least. Great. Well, we are very happy to have you here.

[A]

Yeah, you can call me Chris. Yeah, let's.

[E]

We can.

[A]

We can stop the formalities. It's the worst kept secret. And you. Apologies.

[D]

Okay. Hi. Because I. I even wrote myself a big note, Mr. Burns, because I didn't want to give out your identity. All right, so drum roll, everyone. Yay. It's Chris Burns.

[B]

Welcome, Chris.

[A]

Thank you. Good to be back. Thanks, everybody.

[D]

So we have a wish list and we'd been talking about this. We're always. When we're talking ufo, you know, I wish I knew where this person was or I wish I knew where this collection was. And so I thought we'd have an episode where we just put it out to the public. If you know these certain things we're looking for, please get in touch with us. So without further ado, Chris, would you like to kick us off? Do you have.

[A]

Ooh, okay, let's see. So everything that I have, my list is going to be very New York and Pine Bush oriented, since that's how I occupy My time right now. I'm going to start with a little north of Pine Bush, Ellenville. Found out about five years ago that in the mid 2010s there was a regularly meeting what's called a CE5 group, which is kind of taking liberties with hynix rating of UFO experiences. But CE5 is in essence summoning UFOs and unbeknownst to, as far as I know, the community south of Ellenville, which, you know, was still active at the time, there was a group of people meeting at a undisclosed farm in Ellenville having great success manifesting phenomena, and there's very little known about it. I know the person that kind of organized it. He's been very hesitant to talk about it. So I'm going to respect his feelings about that, not mention his name. But he has since left that community. He has no contact with anybody. And I'm wondering if it's continuing or did continue. So if anybody out there knows anything about the Ellenville CE5 group, please contact UFO headquarters.

[D]

Yeah, do you want to give out a contact for yourself?

[A]

Sure. I've got an email for my. My research efforts. Pbmysteriesmail.com okay, we'll mention that again at

[D]

the end for some people who just. Wait, what was that?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[D]

So. Pbmysteriesmail.com okay. Yeah, yeah, that's fascinating that. I would love to be able to speak to some of the people who did it and know the location where it is in relation to the. You said it was a farm, so it wasn't up in the mountains. I. There.

[A]

The best I can say is yes, it's a farm. Close enough to a major thoroughfare that you can hear traffic. That's all I know about it. Yep.

[D]

Okay. Oh, a real mystery. I love it.

[A]

Yeah, I love it. So it's interesting. There was a subculture within a subculture know for the. The UFO topic up there.

[D]

Okay, okay, let me do a shorter one. I've got a. I've got a longer one and two short ones. I'm sure I've mentioned him before and I wrote about him in my books. Pete Mazzola, he had started the sbi, the Scientific Bureau of Investigation. He had put out a newsletter, I think about 30 issues from 1979 to 1985. It was called the SBI. There was some good cases in there. He was a police detective on Staten Island. What is it about this field that draws the cops? Unfortunately, he died in 87, fairly young in the. Why he was so interested in this field? Is he Was in Vietnam from about 65 to 70, a lot of years in Vietnam. And he's out in the bush one day out in the jungle, and he and his men were pinned down by the enemy. He absolutely swears that a ufo, I believe it was a circular ufo, comes in very close, very low, and it's just sitting there. And the enemy was shelling them, the Viet Cong were shelling them, but the shells were not making it to his men. It was almost as if they were hitting the UFO or there was some sort of field. And that will certainly get your attention if you think you're about to die and a UFO is blocking fire. And then it just, it just took off. And of course he survived. So he did some very good work. He had a few, I think small. He also worked with a man, Jim Philo, or Philo F. It's like pillow with an F, F, I, L, L, O, W from East Brunswick, New Jersey. He passed away in 2017. I would love to find if anyone has Pete Mazzola's files or Jim Philos files, because I'm sure what they published is not in as in depth as the interviews they conducted. And they were, you know, the late 80, you know, early 70s. Excuse me, late 70s, early 80s, prime time in the Hudson Valley in northern New Jersey. So they must have had some amazing cases. So anybody who knew Pete Mazzola or Jim Fillo knows the whereabouts of their files, information, whatever, please get in touch and you can get [e-mail] so that's. So Mike, what do you think of that Vietnam story?

[B]

That's. Yeah, I was just thinking I kind of got distracted a minute for what you did kind of bring up about law enforcement and UFOs and how that just seems to be a very common thread lately. I've bumped into a few people in the law enforcement field, not necessarily local, who were all fascinated by UFOs, the paranormal. And I'm like, you know, 20 something years ago, no one would have told you this stuff. 30 years ago, maybe, maybe in confidence. But now it's just like, yeah, they're talking about it openly. I think it's that natural curiosity we have, that inquisitiveness. We're never satisfied with what we see. We always want to know more. We always want to know the truth, get to the bottom of things. And what is the greatest mystery we can think of is what's out there and what's going on.

[D]

So, yeah, and you're out at all hours of the night. In all kinds of conditions. So you're out there seeing things.

[B]

We are definitely.

[D]

So yeah. Yeah. So why don't we take our first break and then dig into some more wish list

[A]

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[E]

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[A]

Hudsonriverradio.com we could be worse.

[B]

So welcome back to the Paranormal Wish List episode here. And this is a good one because I have not had really a chance this week. Just a lot of crazy things went on at home where I didn't get a chance to do my own personal wish list, which might be a good thing. But I'm very interested.

[D]

Would that involve tall Nordic women?

[B]

I will not confirm or deny plead the fifth, but I may have to go back to the Nordic countries to investigate further. Okay, but this is a great because I'm learning, you know, like just interested in what these collections could be and what these groups are that are meeting out there and would love to hear from those people because what are they experiencing and where and how can that relate to everything else that's been going on in the region, the Hudson Valley, pine bush, you know, everywhere around us. Really?

[D]

Yeah. Yeah. So Chris, do you. Would you like to do another one?

[A]

Yes. Or two or ten? Actually one that's we can connect to. I'm going to mispronounce this last name. The two researchers you were looking you mentioned before the break, I can Connect to that. Let me find my notes.

[D]

This is known as dead air, Right?

[A]

Apparently I've deleted them. Okay, so there was a researcher by the name of Rick Scott. Sadly, he is no longer with us, which is a bummer. I'm sorry. Rick Moran. Here's my notes.

[D]

How's that last name spelled?

[A]

M O R A N. Okay. His group was the association for the Study of Unexplained Phenomenon. And he concentrated actually on the Shungam Mountains. And I do remember meeting him around, I want to say 2000 or so, maybe later than that, but I didn't interact with him much. He moved down to Texas and sadly and sadly passed since then. And his organization is still going. They. They talk glowingly about him. I've read some stuff he wrote that it was. To be missing. So I'm putting the word out there to anybody that knew Rick Maran when he was up in the Hudson Valley or anybody from his family or extended family that might know where his research materials might be, we'd be super interested in them.

[D]

And what was the organization again? I'm sorry.

[A]

It's association for the Study of Unexplained Phenomena. So asup.

[D]

Okay, okay. So asup, did he have any kind of a newsletter or anything like that?

[A]

He just had a website that unfortunately is no longer wander up, but you can dig some saved pages up from archive.org the Wayback Engine.

[D]

Yes. Okay. All right. Yeah, that sounds. I'm not familiar. I. I have not run across anything from ASUP to my knowledge, but. And where did he operate out of in this area?

[A]

I'm not sure where he came from, whether he was New Jersey or New York or Connecticut, but it was very, very close by. He did not have to travel much. And yeah, he concentrated on, you know, the rumors of military activity and underground building and noises in the Shangun Mountains,

[D]

which is just north of Pine Bush. For people who don't.

[E]

No.

[D]

Correct.

[A]

Yep.

[D]

Yeah. So the. We're back to Pine Bush, Ellenville and the mountains in the. In the area.

[A]

Yes.

[D]

So, yeah, that's good to know that people were working on these areas. But it's sad that their material is missing.

[A]

Yes. Which we hear all too often.

[D]

Yes, yes, we do. All right. Do you have another one you'd like to do before I get into my big fat wish?

[A]

Oh, do the big fat wish. I'm very.

[D]

All right. Let me do the big fat wish. Those of you who have been listening to me or reading my books over the years that the bane of my ufologist existence Were the Stormville flyers. Stormville Airport in New York, where a group of pilots flying Cessnas who called themselves the Martians and also a group flying ultralights, which are those little weed whacker engine go karts that are very dangerous, are illegal to fly at night. But that didn't stop them. I have come very close to speaking to some of the flyers that I've gotten to. Sons and daughters, very close friends. I know that several of them, if not all, were being paid to hoax being UFOs. For those who are maybe or, you know, don't know the background. During the 1980s, there were these massive silent craft. And often right after these craft were seen, the Stormville flyers would take off, follow the same path, and then they could say, oh, it was us. They got such a kick out of hoaxing, flying information, pretending to be, you know, UFOs. People who saw both said there were the giant silent craft and then they said, then there were the idiots pretending to be UFOs. Not really fooling too many people because ultralights are extremely loud and Cessna's, you know, Cessna's flying in formation, if they're up really high, can look solid, but at down low you can hear them. So they were being paid by someone, probably the government. And also I got it straight from someone who knew them very, very well. Related. The FAA would call them and say, we just had a giant triangle fly over Carmel and 84 going south to north. And within an hour they'd be in their planes or ultralights and they would be flying over Carmel, south to north. And I am so glad I finally learned this information because so many people over the years would tell me, we saw this amazing craft. It was, you know, the size of a football field. It was silent, it just hovered. And then, you know, like an hour, hour and a half later, these planes flying in formation would. They said it was like they knew exactly where to go. That's because they knew exactly where to go. So I'm going to get all steamed up. What the hell was the FAA calling these people to tell them to then, you know, mimic what had just been seen? Clearly they were trying to muddy the waters, which unfortunately they did. But I have some names. I have one name I dug up myself, was one of the pilots names was Ivan Hirsch. I tracked him out to, I believe it was Arizona or New Mexico. I wrote him a letter saying, hey, don't you think it's time to come clean? You know, I have some questions. Unfortunately, I got a unopened envelope returned stamped deceased so, yes, but there was an article in the newspaper, November 1, 1984, where state police followed the Cessnas to. To Stormville because they had violated Westchester County Airport airspace. So state police followed them back, and the names were Peter Dine, D I N E who at the time lived at 279 Lakeshore Drive in Putnam Valley. Angelo Marifiotti, who lived on Wagon Trail Road in Stormville. So all of this was published, and the information came from a state trooper, a Rick Christensen, C R I S E N S O N no address given. Jeff Bauman, B a u G H M A N at 102 Cherry Hill Drive, Pipy. So when confronted, when, you know, reporters confronted them when they got this list, they all denied it. No, we weren't flying in formation. Yeah, you were the father of Jeff Bowman. Lan Bowman actually broke the code of silence. So many relatives told me they were sworn to secrecy. As little kids, you can never talk about this. So he did say, look, we're, we're not nuts. We're experienced pilots. We enjoy flying information. You know, it's, it's all fun and games. Yeah, yeah, it was a cover up. It was a cover up. They only stopped when they started getting threatening phone calls. And there was a story of a pregnant woman who saw what she thought was a UFO and almost drove off the road. And they realized, oh, boy, we have some legal liability here. You know, they're playing this hoax and they almost drive a pregnant woman off the road. So I would love for, if someone had the guts, if you're still alive, talk to us. Why are you not talking? 40 years later, is there still some sort of le. Legal liability? Were you really breaking the law in some way? We don't even know. I'd love to see log books so we can see the night of July 24, 1984, over, you know, the nuclear plant. Did you get tipped off and an hour later you flew that same course? Children, wives, somebody talk. I think after all these years, I've gotten so close. One woman was so close to tell me, but she said no, we were sworn to secrecy as kids. And she said, there's so much to tell, but there's so much not to tell. So that's my biggest, biggest wish list. Who was calling you? Why were they calling you? How much did they pay you? How often did you go up? What was behind all of this? So that's my number one wish list. I rest my case.

[B]

I love that one.

[A]

Yeah, that's stunning.

[B]

To interview one of those either pilots or Someone with direct firsthand knowledge of what a pilot told them would just be, I mean, I hate to say epic, but it would be epic. And if they are listening or thinking about it, you know, anonymity is guaranteed. You know, you don't have to put your name out there. You can come forward, talk to us, but we're not going to run around and say, hey, this is what this person said, you know, if that's something you're concerned about. But even with being sworn to secrecy, at some point, when does the truth outweigh keeping something hidden for this long, you know?

[D]

Yeah. And all these whistleblowers now are getting immunity, correct?

[B]

Yes.

[D]

You know, if they signed a nondisclosure, they're freed from that. I believe there are legal steps. You. So if you signed a non disclosure back in 1983, 84, I think you can do something legally to be released from that. We just want the truth. We know the truth, but we want, we don't know the whole truth. We don't know why, we don't know why the government was covering this up. And you know, the other thing, they were up there a lot, flying around. I bet they saw the real deal themselves.

[B]

Right, right.

[D]

Everybody for, you know, five, six years, we're seeing these giant craft. I would love to have seen somebody in one of these little dinky ultralights come across something the size of a football field in front of them. Maybe that's why they stopped, why they're

[B]

on their flying lawnmower, you know?

[D]

Yeah, that's right. Right. And you come up to an alien battleship, you think, huh, maybe it's time I stay home and watch tv. So that's my huge wish list. So, Chris, you got another one?

[A]

I do, and it's kind of connected to that, not, not directly, but in spirit. So in the 1990s, during the glorious period where a lot was happening in Pine Bush and the monthly meetings were going on at the vfw, we started hearing little whispers of the same thing. Formation of planes flying around, obviously attempting to mimic a UFO sighting or, you know, create the impression of a UFO sighting. One of the regular members of the, the group did. In fact, he, he was able to actually track down when this collection of planes landed. I've heard kind of hints dropped in comments on Facebook and YouTube that, you know, people, oh, people know exactly what caused, you know, the, the, the sightings from West Searsville. Nudge, nudge, wink, wink. And, and then I, I, someone wrote a nice essay which referenced that as well. And that he knew one of the pilots that participated in that. It. This group originated from a small Orange county airport. I don't think there was. It was any structure like there was with the Stormville seven. I think it was just guys having fun. That's the impression I get. But certainly I would love to hear from anybody or a family member and you know, in the same. In the same way, we'd love to hear from anybody connected with the Stormville seven.

[D]

Now, was that the small airstrip just north of Pine Bush?

[A]

That's a good question. There were. I'm blanking on the name of the one. I thought it was west of. Of Pine Bush.

[D]

But it was just an airstrip. There was no tower or.

[A]

No, it was. Yeah, it was just an airstrip and I don't even think it's operating today.

[D]

Yeah. Were these Cessnas?

[A]

I believe so, yeah.

[D]

Okay. Okay. Now what do you know, if anything about there was supposed to be a CIA airstrip there? There was.

[A]

Yep, there. Yeah, there was. And that we actually had the opportunity to sit at that abandoned airstrip to Skywatch for a period of time and I'd say like 2002, one of the. The OGs of the. The group, the late Tony Stevens, whom we used to call Smooth, or Smoothie, he got permission to open up the gates and we could go in. There was a wonderful place to see a full open sky. It was great. That has history, and I'm not very clear at the history. I probably shouldn't guess at this point. I need to follow up on that. It's certainly, certainly interesting.

[D]

Do you know the years that it was operational? Was it operational in the 80s and 90s, to your knowledge?

[A]

I don't think it was. You know, I'm going to take that back. I was going to say that it wasn't operational in the 90s, but actually now I do think it was.

[E]

Okay.

[D]

Because, you know, we've talked to people we know, people who said they've seen the planes and people being dropped out of them into the fields. Right. As well. So. So we'll add that in addition to this other. These Cessnas flying out of the small airstrip, if anyone knows anything about the CIA airstrip. What I'm sure nothing good was going on there wasn't. It wasn't all above board. Who knows, maybe they were running drugs from Central America. But that would be interesting to know. So anyone with the knowledge of the airstrips or airports around there. So, Mike, anything you want to add to this section?

[B]

The CIA got mentioned. I Don't know what I'm talking about. I'm just. La, la, la, la.

[D]

No, you know nothing.

[B]

I know nothing. I just. I was not aware of a CIA airstrip. That is intriguing. And what. What connection that does or doesn't have to what we've been talking about this past, you know, the. With the airships or the. Not the airships, the. The airplanes. I'm really losing it tonight. See, I'm all nervous now about the CIA thing.

[D]

So, Chris, do you know whereabouts. Can you give us some more definitive location on that CIA airstrip?

[A]

I want to say the plot that we went to, and I'm pretty sure it was that plot that the CIA did use, is a little up Albany Post Road from Angry Orchard.

[D]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah, it's in that. That general area and I think they're.

[D]

Yeah, we need to go there.

[A]

Yeah, I wish we could get in. I don't. I don't think we can because it would be a perfect place to, you know, to sit out. And I'm not sure who would. Would who we could approach to to see how to. To get in there.

[D]

Well, let me talk to Lance at the Pine Bush Museum and see with his county connections, maybe it's county owned now and we can get a key. Yeah, okay, that's.

[C]

Oh.

[D]

Oh, okay.

[B]

I'm game for that. That'd be a great sky.

[D]

Yes.

[A]

Yes.

[D]

And Brian, can you set up some equipment there to record live?

[E]

Twist my arm.

[B]

No.

[D]

Okay, we can make that former CIA ground. All right, well, why don't we take our second break at this point? This is HudsonRiverRadio.com your local Rockland county station.

[F]

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[B]

this is hudsonriverradio.com. So to all of our listeners out there, what's your UFO wish list? You know, we'd love to hear from you. Write to the show, let us know what's on the top of your wish list. And do not say Nordics. I've already got that covered. Anyway, back to you, Linda. I'm sorry, I had to.

[D]

Well, I just. Chris, do you have another one lined up? I just have a short one, but if you have another one, I do.

[A]

This one's a biggie for me. So this is all about kind of Pine Bush era history. So, you know, reports date back to the early part of the 20th century at least, but modern history, I guess it kind of begins where Ellen Crystal's book starts in 1980. And for years that's kind of what I thought was the, you know, the start of the, the story. But however I was, I was clued into that. In fact, there were at least one informal group in the 1970s who apparently staked out looking for phenomena. And I have to give credit where credit is due. That was clued into me by my friend Dawn Lay, who is massively important in the Pine bush history and someone I talked to about five years ago, Jane Allison, who's extremely kind with her time, she was in the area around 1980. And yeah, so I'm going to be deliberately kind of cagey with information about it because if anybody knows about the group and can reach out with information about them, it definitely concentrates on public servants for Montgomery, who apparently were well equipped with cameras and very well camouflaged. So that also brings up the possibility that there are more photos out there of the phenomena, of which there are only a handful from 1980, 1981,

[B]

and

[A]

it'd be super, super interesting to get in contact with anybody who might know anything about that.

[D]

Yes. 1970s group of public officials who were. Now you're not saying that they were doing this on the public dime. They were just.

[A]

Oh, no. Nope, nope. Yeah, I think it was just a personal interest, but yeah. And. And considering what was also happening at the time in that area that they were staking out, which was the same area that we staked out in the 1990s. Yeah, it's.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

It would be incredible to get any information about that group.

[D]

Yeah, I'll have to talk to you off air. I have an idea I want to. Somebody I want to mention to you with that.

[A]

Oh, love that.

[D]

But yeah. So again, 1970s people from Montgomery in the area who may have been first responders of some sort.

[A]

Could be.

[D]

Could be. So, yeah, this is, you know, so this is nothing new. What we do is nothing new. We've had generations before us doing the same thing and all that information, where is it? What did they see? What did they know? So. Excellent, Mike, anything you want to mention on that?

[B]

No, I want to just kind of bounce off what you just said about generations before us. But, you know, we're just a temporary custodians today of moving the information forward. Sounds kind of corny, but it is true. And to pass that information on to the future researchers who hopefully, if we can't get the answers, can build off of the work everybody's been doing and maybe get closer to the truth. I'd like to know the truth in my lifetime, but I mean, ultimately we're part of a long process. Just like the people for decades who have worked before us and left behind missing works and volumes of their research. Where is it? You know, we got to just move forward. But it is our responsibility today to remember that, that we're just part of a big, long, continuous process and we have to do our best today. It sounds corny, but. No, it's, you know, it's the truth though. It's any type of historical or research driven stuff. And that's what we're doing.

[D]

Yeah. Anybody in this field, how do you start reading and talking to people who've already done it? You know, reading things already published. And then if you're lucky and you do your work, then you start going out and sky watching and interviewing witnesses and. Yeah, building on that. So that's a good segue to the last of my. Well, I have a big wish list, but for tonight. George Lesnick L E S N I C K what a surprise. He was a police lieutenant in Fairfield, Connecticut, and he's mentioned a couple of times in the book Night Siege, which is all about. It was, you know, a great book about that Hudson Valley wave in the 1980s. And he worked with that group. You know, soon as things were happening, you know, the next day they were interviewing people. I think he was part of the interview of the. The witnesses, the security guards at Indian Point nuclear facility, which. Did you hear they may be restarting?

[A]

That would make sense. Yeah, that would make sense with the AI need. Definitely.

[D]

Yeah. So we may not have seen the last of Indian Point. And I would be very interested to see what happens at Indian Point once it. The nuclear reactors get up and running again. But I. So George Lesnick, I only heard good things about him. I did speak to his son, I think, in Florida several years ago, who said, yeah, I've got some tapes and interview. I'm like, ah. And I never heard back. So relatives of George Lasnick, if you. Friends. Wow. Can you imagine listening to an audio tape, you know, a little cassette tape of one of the guards at Indian Point, like two days after it happened? Any of those. So, yeah, that's a big. That's a big wish list there. So that's. That's it for my wish list. How many. How many more dozen do you have, Chris?

[A]

Oh, I got a lot.

[D]

How about it?

[A]

Do we have a. Okay, let's see. We kind of touched on this. You mentioned stories of military activity or military exercises in the fields where soldiers use parachutes in. You know, along with this, also stories of trains of buses going down Route 52 in the middle of the night. So a lot of stories, a lot of rumors that might have basis in reality, but might have completely conventional, you know, reasons for doing so. If anybody has any information that could clear that up, especially people who took part part in that, that would be very helpful if they reached out to us.

[D]

Yeah, there was a fireman I had interviewed. I'm sure I told you that late one night. These, you know, Humvees and military vehicles are big convoy. What are they doing going through Pine Bush, Montgomery? Where are they coming from? Where are they going to in the middle of the night? I'm more interested where they're coming from. You know, in the direction of the Shawangun Mountains, of the direction of Ellenville. It's not like they got off the New York State Thruway. You know, they had to have come through some pretty rural area to get going wherever they were going. So, yeah, that's. That would Be very interesting if people know of military exercises, military convoys, a military presence where there's no obvious military base.

[E]

We love it.

[D]

We love a mystery.

[A]

Yes. Yes, we do.

[D]

All right, what else do you have?

[A]

Okay, one weird one. So. And this actually ties into.

[D]

Oh, wait, I'm sorry, we don't do weird on this show.

[B]

We're way too normal for that.

[A]

So in the early days of the Internet, for the majority of us, in the glory days of aol, you know, kind of online chatter and online websites started popping up about Pine Bush. And one popped up that alleged that they were, you know, going in line of what we were just talking about. There were military investigations of the UFO phenomena on West Searsville Road that resulted in participants becoming sick on scene. And this website featured, I want to say, like three or four photos that were supposed to represent the phenomenon and that were similar to what the sky watchers were also capturing at the time. But of notice there was language on the page which kind of suggested that the page was. And then. And the story on the page was a psyop. It was all very weird and it stayed up forever because a lot of these pages would pop up and disappear within months. And I was never able to. I think I wrote to the email contact on there, never heard back. A while later, I was able to get to other pages connected to that one. It was this, you know, early AOL era site on science and history and politics that seemed to originate out of the Philadelphia area. And so the person that, that program, it did have a nickname. They didn't give their name, but they did have a nickname and were represented by kind of like an old timey 1920s portrait photograph. If this is, I mean, so it's a long shot, but if this person is out there, could, could you contact us with your, your nickname? Because I would love to talk to you about what, what all that page was about.

[D]

Yeah. What would be the purpose as a psyop to mention that? I don't. Who knows? Or they're just, they're just, you know, yanking everybody's chain. But that's, you know, certainly it wouldn't be the first group of people to get. Or people not just group individuals to get sick by contacting this kind of phenomenon. Yeah, yeah, there's a little place called Skinwalker where that happens all the time. But yeah, that's. That's fascinating.

[F]

So.

[D]

So we will know it's you if you say the right nickname.

[A]

Yes.

[D]

Oh, we're all kinds of enigma and secrecy tonight. This is, this is Great. We should have had code names when we. All right. Do you have any others?

[A]

Oh, boy. Let's see. I'll do a.

[D]

How are we all doing for time, guys? So we're. We're good. We're good. Okay.

[A]

I'm going to go north again. So we. We know a bit of history, UFO history concerning Ellenville, but for. For me at least, it gets a little hazy once we go north. So Cragsmore, Napanok and Khongson, and especially Accord. And I'm very interested in Ackard because to me, that's the top of the larger hotspot. Now, those who know Acord is notable in UFO history, and I won't say why, but, you know, if, you know, you know, I'm not necessarily interested in that. I'm interested in anything besides that. So if you know of anything supernatural, UFOE concerning Accord, I would love to hear.

[D]

Yeah. Particularly the people who lived on the same street as the certain residents which we were not mentioning.

[A]

Yes.

[D]

Because those residents have said things were going on long before that certain resident moved in and continued afterwards. Yeah. So I'm sure there's people around the country in the world, like, what are they talking about? Look it up. You will find it. You don't feel comfortable mentioning names here. Okay.

[A]

Yeah. You know, being. Being, you know, hopefully considerate to. To those in on that. That plot. So.

[D]

Yeah, yeah, so, yes, definitely. Accord, Major hotspot. And. Yeah, that's a good one. That's a good one for that whole area. All right. Any others?

[A]

Got just one general one.

[D]

Okay.

[A]

I would love to hear of anybody that just has memories of the UFOS group that was formed by Dawn Lay and had my buddies John and Su Man, Jim Smith, Anthony Smooth Stevens, and Bill and Sue Wyand headed over the years. Any memories about attending those meetings would be super, you know, super valuable to me. It really has attained kind of a legendary status in kind of New York, you know, esoteric history. It also has spilled over to pop culture at large. You know, referencing that TBS series, I think it was People of Earth.

[D]

Was that People of Earth? I love that.

[A]

Which is a great series and a nice kind of, you know, affectionate look at UFO culture. Very upstate New York. But the group was just fantastic. And all credit goes to dawn, who was the perfect host. And she's like the nicest person you could possibly meet. And she greeted everybody with this huge smile and just made people feel comfortable talking about things. And then when I joined, it was about three years after it started, so I Can't imagine what I missed. But when I started, it was really all about what was happening at the time in the area in. By Bush. Yeah, it was just tremendous.

[D]

Was this the group that you were with when there was a bit of a missing time phenomena?

[A]

No, that was a. That was a smaller. A subgroup of that. Yeah.

[D]

Okay. Can you mention that? Do you feel comfortable mentioning that story? Yeah, just. I think it's good. You.

[A]

Let's see. How do I put it? It was a small, you know, like, private gathering of people that had been involved and put themselves, you know, in the places where phenomena was happening. And it brings up the. The saying, be careful what you wish for.

[D]

Exactly.

[A]

And yeah, it's, you know, just in what. What happened in those days was if you. If you wanted phenomena, you kind of got phenomena. And we did. We did have an incident where everybody in a. In a specific area seemed to lose like, an hour. So I. I make no. I make no claims as to what could or could not have happened. It's just interesting. It's just one of those things that was very interesting about how many people

[D]

were involved in that.

[A]

Oh, God, 20 plus, I want to say.

[D]

So more than 20 people lost an hour of time?

[A]

Yeah, I think. I mean, and it was so uncomfortable. We didn't really talk about it much at the time it was brought up. We all noticed it. And not knowing how to handle what. We just continued on with the evening. And then.

[B]

That's fascinating.

[A]

Yeah, we talked about it later. There's a lot of that. That's the whole thing. Like, that's what fascinates me about comparing pine bush to other places that would be considered thin areas. Because you hear the same things, and you're like, oh, yeah, I recognize that.

[D]

Ah, we've been there, done that in pine bush.

[A]

So.

[D]

Well, things are still happening in pine bush. I can. I can attest to that. And recently, there are still strange things to be seen, so everywhere. And, you know, the Hudson Valley in general, Pine Bush, specifically. So, you know, it's great to sit here and listen to us, but once you get out and see if you can see something, see if you can experience something, get 20 people together and all have a group missing time, you

[B]

know,

[D]

you'll have something to talk about forever. You don't know what you're talking about, but, you know, something happened, so. All right, Mike, any. Any wishes come to you as you've been listening to all this?

[B]

No, I think this has been a great episode. And I found some things I was, you know, While we were talking, I looked up a few things that, that Chris had mentioned, and I've got some reading I'm going to be doing tonight that I was looking at, so I encourage people to do that also at home. You know, it's amazing. Some of the names that, that you mentioned on both ends are names that have come up before and have done a lot of work and they've left some, some trail behind them that you can sort of pick it up on. And I encourage people to do that. Don't just take our word for what we say. You have to, you have to read it, you know, make your own conclusions.

[D]

Yes, definitely. So, Chris, you want to give that email one more time and your website.

[A]

Yep, it's pbmysteriesmail.com and I have a research project just concentrating on Orange and ulster counties called pinebushanomaly.com

[D]

Excellent. All right, well, I think that's my wish list for now. And like Mike said, if people have some other wish lists, please let us know. And if the CIA comes knocking on your door, you don't know me. You heard nothing. But yeah. I hope everyone enjoyed this episode because there's so much new stuff to learn, but there's so much old stuff that's still, we can dig up. We can, we can mine all of these collections, hopefully, if we can find them and if we can find these people and, and dammit, you Stormville flyers, man up and come and talk to me. And that's it for me. All right, I was gonna say.

[B]

I agree. Man up. We want. Yeah, we want the truth. Now it's time to talk.

[D]

So, Chris, thank you so much for doing this again.

[A]

Well, thank you for having me on. This is great.

[D]

I had a. Yeah, and maybe something great will. Will come of it. And we, we have a date to go to that CIA airstrip, if we can find it. I'll talk to Lance and Mike. Brian, you guys are in?

[B]

Absolutely.

[E]

Oh, hell yeah.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

Name the date and the time.

[D]

All right, sounds good. All right, well, thank you everybody and Mike, take us out.

[B]

Thank you for another great episode and joining us tonight. Thank you, Chris. Thank you, Linda. Thank you, Brian. Thank you everybody that's been with us. Whether it's from the very beginning, you're just new to listening to us binge. Listen to us on your favorite podcast system. And until next time, keep your eyes on the sky.

[A]

HudsonRiverRadio.com, a favorite among shut ins and

[F]

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