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- [00:00]
A
Foreign. This is Travis Walton and you are listening to UFO headquarters. Welcome to UFO headquarters. Good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever on this marvelous globe that you may be listening from. Welcome to UFO headquarters. In. Boy, do we have a news breaking or earth shattering episode today. Linda's laughing already.
- [00:40]
B
Oh, earth shattering, yes.
- [00:42]
A
Earth shattering, maybe atmosphere shattering.
- [00:46]
B
Cosmic shattering, yes.
- [00:48]
A
But it's going to be an interesting one because a lot in the last week or so has been developing with government and UFOs and you know how the entire UFO field explodes the moment anything to do with the government and UFOs together get released.
- [01:11]
B
Stampede. It was a great. It was an online stampede to the War Department website and I let the initial wave hit and then I jumped in. And it's a lot. The latest government UFO document release. There's a lot there. So I figured now is the time to see what lying pieces of, you know, what the government has been all these years and what fascinating cases are out there. So have you had a chance to look at any of the releases?
- [01:54]
A
I started to. Unfortunately, you know, this is the finals weeks from my master's program, so I've got two large papers too.
- [02:04]
B
Oh, boy.
- [02:05]
A
As you know, my head is buried in books and writing.
- [02:10]
B
That's a good place to be.
- [02:11]
A
It's not so bad, but it's a lot of work.
- [02:15]
B
Well, I, I opened up the website to, to the files and the very first thing I saw just warmed my heart because I am a space race baby. You know, the early days of the Mercury, Gemini, Apollo. I mean, I lived for that. And the first thing I saw was an image from the Apollo 17 crew. Now I will buy lunch for Brian and or Mike if either of you can mention all three crew members on Apollo 17 without googling it. Anyone? No?
- [03:00]
A
Buzz Aldrin.
- [03:01]
B
I'm gonna be hungry next week. No, no. Eugene Cernan, Harrison Schmidt and Ron Evans were the crew. Ron Evans did not land on the moon. He stayed up in the command module. But so Cernan and Schmidt were on the surface and there's a picture taken by one of them on the surface of the moon of three lights in the sky over the moon. Now it wasn't Ron Evans in the command module. So what the hell were those three lights?
- [03:42]
A
And these are, you know, we talk about, you know, aircraft pilots being the top of the top. Astronauts are a step above.
- [03:53]
B
Yeah.
- [03:53]
A
And you know, the rigorous training they go through. And can I just add, like if I was an astronaut and I was the only guy that didn't get to step on the moon, I was that close. I know I might just have to put the suit on and change the mission. That would drive me nuts, like, so close.
- [04:13]
B
But I know I love.
- [04:16]
A
As much as I love military pilots and airline pilot reports, when I hear astronaut reports, it's like it's another level to me, at least.
- [04:27]
B
Yeah, yeah. And so there was the photo, and then there was some text which get this Apollo 17 crew says, there's a whole bunch of big ones on my window down there, meaning lights just bright. It looks like the 4th of July out Ron's window. We had light flashes just about continuously during the whole flight. Now, NASA asks them, could it be ice particles or optical illusions? Because there is something called cosmic ray visual phenomena. I had to look it up. There's something that astronauts get in deeper space with cosmic rays causing flashes of light. They're not quite sure the mechanism, but one of the Apollo 17 crewmen described. No, no, it's not that. There are several flashing rotating phenomena corresponding to physical objects in space rather than a purely optical phenomena. Okay, so what was out there on the way to the moon or the way back with Apollo 17? Nobody from Earth.
- [05:55]
A
No. And I would think that these astronauts were trained to differentiate between these optical phenomena versus perhaps something that's physically present.
- [06:05]
B
Yeah. By Apollo 17, certainly. You know, the initial ones, while we're seeing flashes of light, we don't know what that is. We're seeing little particles. You know, I'm sure they had plenty of footage, plenty of pictures, and like you said, plenty of training. You may see ice particles, you may see this or that. But what was the term? Flashing rotating phenomenon corresponding to physical objects. Okay, then.
- [06:38]
A
Yeah, that's very specific.
- [06:41]
B
Yes, yes. So then we have a document from August 23, 1950, the Air Force Office of Special Investigations, OSI. Now, the OSI was started after World War II to track down Nazis who may have come in the country. Criminal investigations, counterintelligence. But guess what else they were looking into? UFOs. Here's a memoir to advise that. The OSI has expressed concern in connection with the continued appearance of unexplained phenomenon, described as green fireballs, disks and meteors in the vicinity of sensitive installations in New Mexico. 2. Dr. La Paz, Meteor expert of the University of New Mexico, reported that the phenomenon does not appear to be of meteor meteoric origin. In other words, not rocks flying through the atmosphere. Three, OSI has contracted with Land Air Incorporated in Alamogordo, New Mexico, to make a scientific study of unexplained phenomena. So 1950, we're only a few years out of World War II. There's a lot of sensitive things in New Mexico installations. And they're seeing dozens and dozens and dozens of these craft. This memo goes on to say that I think it was about 150 up to this point have been reported over sensitive installations since the Air Force started recording them in December of 1948. Green fireballs. Objects moving at high speed, resembling half moons, circles and disks emitting green light. Disks, round, flat shaped object or phenomenon moving at fast velocity and admitting a brilliant white or reflected light. Okay, 1950.
- [09:13]
A
They've got my attention.
- [09:14]
B
Yes, yes, here we go. Since 1948, approximately 100 observations of aerial phenomena referred to have been recorded in the vicinity of sensitive installations in New Mexico. They have been reported by different reliable individuals at approximately the same time. So we would say credible. Multiple eyewitnesses at different locations. It's fascinating. This, Dr. La Paz said, had a part here 10 reasons why they were not meteors. They're desperately trying to say it was just meteors. Now, we've all seen shooting stars. He said, why these were not. Many of them were moving horizontal. Shooting stars come down. They don't travel sideways. They are very low. The velocity was way too low, silent. Because if you've ever seen some of these, they blow up, they explode, and you hear these little booms. No variations in brightness. I mean, I've seen a lot of meteor showers. And they'll start out and they'll get really bright and then fizzle out. These maintain a constant brightness. They are not burning out. Their paths are not random. Like meteor showers usually come from a particular area of the sky. That's how they get their names. Because they're near a certain constellation. These are following similar paths as, you know, like over your sensitive installation. The green color is rare for a meteor. They're longer in view than meteors and no sparks or dust clouds. Often you get this scintillating trail from meteors. None of that. So it sounds to me that these were aircraft. And this Dr. La Paz cautions, well, you know, at these trajectories and speeds, these could be missiles coming from the USSR to New Mexico in less than 15 minutes. So they weren't missiles. But clearly they're worried that those. Those damn commies are.
- [11:46]
A
Yeah, and that's at the, you know, the beginning of the Cold War. I mean, that was the. The red scare.
- [11:52]
B
Yep, yep. So they actually, this project that became known as Project Twinkle, it was again between the Air Force and the Land Air Corporation. And for at least two years, they were studying this phenomenon. And over sensitive military and government installations. Yeah, they come. Coming right out and saying, disks. That's amazing. And then I found this. I loved it. It's J. Edgar Hoover. The director of the FBI is sending a communication to his special agent in charge, the SAC in Los Angeles, regarding flying saucers. This is October of 1950. You are instructed to discreetly determine through appropriate reliable sources of your whether Frank Scully, author of the book Behind Flying Saucers, is identical to the Frank Scully, who has been actively engaged in communist activities since the late 1930s in the territory of your office. So, in other words, forget aliens. Is he a communist? That's what.
- [13:19]
A
And. And. And was it really a concern that he was a communist or like an early attempt at a smear campaign? Let's discredit him completely. We'll label him a communist, which at that point would have been probably the equivalent of what we would call cancel culture today.
- [13:34]
B
Yeah, that's. That's exactly. You nailed it. Yes. If we can find out this guy is a commie, then. Then that discredits him completely. So why, before I get really deep into this, why don't we take our first break? Hudsonriverradio.com. Hudsonriverradio.com we could be worse.
- [14:11]
A
So we are back, and a very interesting communication there from J. Edgar Hoover about an author of a book about UFOs, and then, of course, his alleged communist ties going back to the 1930s of. You know, can't just be a year or two. It's got to be. We got to really stack this on. But I guess, look, you know, we look at it today how much they try to discredit authors and researchers in the field. So how much easier was it to do before there was an Internet, before there was any footprint that you could really follow about people, and essentially the government could say what they wanted to say. An informant told me he was a member of the Communist Party. He attended rallies with them. He's got a hammer and sickle flag and a picture of Comrade Stalin, you know, like. But.
- [15:04]
B
Yeah, exactly.
- [15:06]
A
Was it to just ruin somebody's reputation?
- [15:10]
B
Yep. So all these elements are in place, hiding things, discrediting people. Back in 1950. So. So what hope did we poor ufologists have in the. In the succeeding decades? So this really is amazing times we're living in now that we can openly talk about it. You know, there's people in the government who want this to be come out, but this I found. Okay, this is Weird. I have no explanation for this. It is from September of 1950. This. This memo. OSI Again, Air Force SAC, the special agent in charge of Philadelphia, called at 10:45am today and stated that yesterday evening, while two police officers were cruising in Philadelphia in their scout car, they saw through the windshield an object descending slowly to the earth, which appeared at first glance to be a parachute. When the officers first noticed the object, it was at treetop level and was described as being six feet in diameter. It landed in a field nearby. The officers and upon examining it, noted it gave off a purplish glow which was almost like a mist. How many times do we hear about mists around UFOs, particularly landed ones. The officers summoned two other police officers. After looking at the object for some time, they attempted to pick it up. That's rather brave of them. Or stupid. The object broke, leaving a slight odorless residue. Over a period of about 25 minutes, which the officers spent watching the object, it completely disintegrated. The officers further commented that the object was so light that when it hit the field, it did not even bend the weeds or the grass it fell on. What the hell?
- [17:31]
A
Yeah, like what could it possibly be made out of that? It had no impact like that and
- [17:38]
B
it disintegrated and it had a purplish glow. You know what this reminded me of is 50s 60s, there were these reports of angel hair. People would see UFOs and then there'd be this like filament, like stuff that would coat trees and houses and then it would just disintegrate. I have no idea what. Six foot, solid purple glow, but yet disintegrates and leaves no trace and doesn't bend the weeds. Yeah, they. They've stumped me. It stumped me. But I thought it was, you know, obviously they felt this was important enough. Enough to keep classified?
- [18:26]
A
Yeah, absolutely.
- [18:27]
B
I can't. Can you think of anything terrestrial that I don't even know where to begin? Something that gives off light?
- [18:36]
A
No, because even the thinnest of fabrics I think that we would have, would impact the vegetation, would somehow leave an imprint, would push it down. I mean, it rains just a little bit and I notice, you know, the grass is bent. So how can you put a large object on it and not expect to have any type of imprint or a footprint and it just dissolves, disappears.
- [19:02]
B
Yeah. So I would love to have an artist rendering of these four Philadelphia cops standing around this six foot purplish glow and then picking, trying to pick it up. You don't Know what the hell that is?
- [19:16]
A
Yeah. Sometimes us cops aren't the smartest. I'm not saying I probably wouldn't have tried.
- [19:24]
B
All right, you ready for more? We've got plenty more. This is from J. Edgar Hoover again, Director of the FBI, to the Director of Special Investigations of the Air Force at the Pentagon. Subject flying discs, November of 1950. There is so much correspondence going on here. For people who said that. Absolutely, they weren't looking into it at all. Mr. Aaron L. Hitchens, chemical engineer in charge of the chemical and physical laboratories of the Winchester Repeating Arms Company I'm so jealous of New Haven, advised the Bureau that on Friday, October 20, 1950, he, his wife and daughter, who reside at 495 Edgewood Avenue, New Haven. The other thing I like about these, it's not like the blue book files where everything's redacted. You've got names, addresses, You've got. You've got everything. Here he went, they went out of their home into the backyard. At approximately 6, 6:15pm his young daughter called his attention to a star which was moving. And Mr. Hitchens noted a sphere like object directly overhead that gave off a golden glow. The glow was very steady, not blinking, and the whole sphere itself glowed in the same consistency. He witnessed the object for about 20 seconds, in which time it traveled in the direction of New York City. It then veered in a southerly direction as if crossing to Long Island. He advised the object was approximately 10 times the diameter of Venus, which was shining brightly that night. So we can't blame Venus because he saw Venus in another part of the sky. Thank heaven for that. Clear night. Clear sky. He said that it was directly overhead. There was no sound at all. Where have we heard that? And it seemed to be no attachments or projections of any kind. Mr. Hitchens stated that the object was a complete circular ball. He had no idea as to the method of propulsion, but advised that at the time it seemed to change directions. So that's a good trick. A perfectly smooth sphere, no wings, no. No engines. The object left no trail of any kind. And. And Mr. Hitchens mathematically calculated its speed. Between 400 and 700 miles per hour, depending on its height, which he stated he could not compute accurately. He advised that he could not recall anything, any odors, and he had no idea to the construction of the object. Isn't it great to have a chemist?
- [22:53]
A
Yes, absolutely.
- [22:56]
B
Great observation. So again, this happened in October of 1950 in New Haven, Connecticut, which we know is on the fringes of the Hudson Valley activity Has had a lot of activity. Perfectly circular ball moving, veering off, moving fast. Great sighting.
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A
Yeah. And elements consistent, what we've heard, you know, throughout the Hudson Valley wave in different locations. So no coincidence. I think that it's New Haven.
- [23:33]
B
Yeah.
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A
Like you said, very close.
- [23:36]
B
Yep, yep. So here's something from September of 50. So they're all around 1950, early 50s, in the file I, I opened and I didn't see any reason to go. There was so much in this one file. So. But this is great because we're seeing what was going on the whole time. The government says there's nothing to it, we're not looking at it. Well, how about this memo from Denver? Well, it was the Denver office. A construction worker at Los Alamos, New Mexico, a rather sensitive installation at Los Alamos reported that a strange blinking object soared over a highly restricted area of the Atomic Energy Center. Oh, there's a slight cause for alarm. Lee Robinson of the Armex Construction Company sent the Denver Post a copy of a mimeographed form which he used to report the object to the aec, the Atomic Energy Commission. The form had been prepared by the AEC for reports of unidentified aerial objects at Los Alamos. Okay, let's stop for a moment.
- [24:59]
A
That's a lot to take in right there. That they had their own form prepared.
- [25:04]
B
Thank you.
- [25:04]
A
For that location specifically.
- [25:07]
B
Yeah. Why did they need that? You wouldn't do that for an occasional random report.
- [25:14]
A
No. And that's not a, that's not a common aspect of ufology that, that really opens up a can of proverbial worms, doesn't it?
- [25:24]
B
Yeah. Oh, I just filled out an Atomic Energy UFO report form. They had mimeographed report forms. I love it. Okay. The original three page report was submitted to the Atomic Energy Security Service September 12, the day that Robinson and eight other employees say they saw the object. He said they were all eating lunch when the unidentified object passed over. He said it was not a balloon or a conventional type of aircraft. It appeared to be at an altitude of about 20,000ft. It alternately flashed bright and black at intervals of 2 seconds and was visible for 3 minutes and 40 seconds. That's a long sighting when something racing overhead for a few seconds. He said the AEC is highly concerned with unidentified aerial objects over the project. Wow. Again, no order, no odor, no particular means of propulsion evident. So the AEC is sweating bullets about UFOs.
- [26:51]
A
It's. To me, it's interesting because the. One of the long standing theories, you know, in ufology has been that the uptick in UFOs seems to coincide with our, you know, discovery of the ability to split the atom, you know, nuclear energy, nuclear bombs. And here the Atomic Energy Commission has their devoted report form because it must be a. It can't be a one off if you have a form for it.
- [27:19]
B
No. And they are highly concerned about all these UFOs buzzing around Los Alamos and other places. So I thought this memo was interesting From October of 1950 when Special Agent Edward Sanders was speaking with Major General Joseph Carroll of OSI again the air Force Office of Special Investigations. At which time General Carroll advised that as far as he knows and is able to determine, the Air Force is not working on any type of flying saucer or flying discovery. They are working on high altitude rockets and jet aircrafts. He said perhaps some of those could be misinterpreted. But he said that there is. They absolutely do not explain all the flying saucers people are seeing. This is coming from Major General and that he said that their reports have been. Now they are being concentrated at right field, which would become Wright Patterson. I wonder why they chose that location and that they would keep the FBI informed. Interesting conversation that they. So speaking of. I'm just going to keep powering through because we have a lot. You're good?
- [28:56]
A
I'm good.
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B
Okay. This one is from the FBI from the SAC in Knoxville. And it is about a radar report. Radar detection of unidentified objects over Oak Ridge, Tennessee. Ring a bell? Oak Ridge. The people who brought you The Manhattan Project. Yeah. Uranium and plutonium production for the atomic bombs for the Manhattan Project. There probably wasn't. It was probably one of two most secret locations during. During World War II. Advises that at 11:25pm October 12th their radar picked up 11 objects and perhaps more traveling across controlled area of the atomic energy installation at Oak Ridge. Altitudes of the Objects varied from 1 to 5,000ft. Courses from Southeast to south to southeast. And density. That means the strength of the radar return gives an idea of the size of the object. The density from the reading they said it compared to the size of a C47. Now the Douglas C47 Skytrain. I had to look up 96 foot wingspan. Those were used as troop and cargo planes during World War II. And they were the ones towing the gliders. Yes, that's a substantial hunk of aircraft. There were 11 or more of them. Fighter plane attempted to intercept and couldn't catch them. And the end of the memo says no reasonable explanation for radar readings have yet developed. Although operators are experienced, reliable personnel and the radar set is in perfect operating condition, so you can't say, you know, some new guy messed up or it's not calibrated. So here we are in 1950 with 11 C47 UFOs at 1,000ft. That's low for a regular C47, let alone 11 UFOs going over your atomic energy sites at Oak Ridge. Is this amazing stuff?
- [31:53]
A
Yes, this is. I mean, the fact that they sat on this stuff for as long as they have, you know, with nothing to see here, and then all of a sudden and, you know, are they. Are they trickling this out? What else are they holding?
- [32:08]
B
Yeah.
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A
Is this just a tease?
- [32:11]
B
You know, and this is just a few pages I took from one of the many files released. All right, this is. This just, you know, made my little sensors go off and I couldn't find anything else. More about it. Urgent from the FBI in Richmond, I assume. Richmond, Virginia. I don't know. Can you think of another f. Where? Another Richmond?
- [32:43]
A
No. Probably. I would think Richmond would have an office.
- [32:47]
B
Yeah. Yeah. And this is to the director. So again, J. Edgar Hoover had these things crossing his desk all the time regarding flying saucers. This office, very confidentially advised by Army Intelligence in Richmond that they have been put on immediate high alert for any data whatsoever concerning flying saucers. We are not aware of the reason for the alert, but any information whatsoever must be telephoned by them immediately to Air Force Intelligence. CIC advises data strictly confidential and should not be disseminated. What the hell? So this is December 8th, 1950. Army intelligence contacts the FBI. You know, it's some emergency alert. What. What was going. The only thing I could find was that two days earlier, on the afternoon of December 6, 1950, was the El Indio, Texas incident, where there was, I will say, an alleged crash. There was a fireball. All these witnesses. It started a brush fire. It was on the Texas Mexico border. Army witnesses saw the army come in and take something away. Was that why everybody was put on alert? Would you be put on alert if. For UFOs, if it had been a conventional aircraft crash?
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A
Right. It doesn't add up. I don't think.
- [34:41]
B
Yeah, maybe it's something complete, but I was trying to see what was going on in the world at that point. But very confidentially. Shh. Don't tell anybody, but as soon as you hear any UFO stuff. Yeah. I mean, you could spend a whole episode, you know, breaking down that. I have a few more, but why don't we take our second break, and I can take a deep breath. This is hudsonriverradio.com, your local Rockland county station,
- [35:22]
A
Hudson riverradio.com. So I'm hoping, Linda, that you've been able to get a few deep breaths in over the break. You have been reading a lot. And I just have to make an observation that there's already quite a bit of material from the time period, you know, the late 40s into the 50s of UFO documentation. But this really changes the narrative because it really shows that there's so much more depth and breadth to this whole phenomenon that the government has known about, has lied about, and has tried to downplay and essentially dismiss everybody, whether they are the kookiest of researchers or the most serious of researchers. And here, the whole time they've been sitting on, you know, the treasure trove and this is what they're just letting us see.
- [36:31]
B
Yeah, that is a really great way to do it because their narrative. Well, that was just Farmer Joe who thought he saw, you know, a UFO when it was a weather balloon. These are military people seeing this. People at sensitive atomic energy installations. Yeah, the jig is up. Government. Not that I ever believed them, but to. And this is just me going through one of the files and pulling out a handful of stuff. It's an amazing amount. So let's go to Alaska now. Fort Richardson, Alaska. This is December of 1950. Again, so much was happening. Air command reports military jet pilots in the vicinity of Fairbanks, while over weeks international field at an altitude of 8,000ft, observed a flash of light yellow in color at an altitude between 25 and 30,000ft. Horizontal distance to the object was approximately 50 miles. Soon after a flash, a dark brown smoke appeared to rise or climb at an angle of 40 degrees. At the leading edge of the smoke, at approximately 100ft appeared an object either cigar shaped or a fuselage without wings. How does that happen? Traveling at quote, a terrific speed, pilots started a pursuit. Pursuit continued until the pilots reached a certain area and lost sight of the object. Meanwhile, the object gained altitude and speed and disappeared from approximately 50 to 55,000ft. So they said they saw. They are assured of the shape because it was perfectly silhouetted against the sun. Daylight sighting jet pilots in pursuit either cigar shaped or a fuselage without wings. And they can't catch up to it in their jet fighters. And it takes off basically going up and up, up and away. Yeah, tremendous. Just I was like a little kid in a candy store with these files and I was like, oh, just one more, just one more. And I couldn't stop myself. So I'M just gonna read. I have a few left. I mean, you're good to keep going.
- [39:38]
A
Let's do it.
- [39:39]
B
All right, back to Oak Ridge. Oh no, this is now we're in February of 51 and it keeps going between 8:20 and 8:30 hours on December 18, 1950 on the turnpike, within a controlled area approximately one mile from the White Wing entrance of the Y12 plant. I guess that's a sensitive area of Oak Ridge, but then again, what isn't? Eight witnesses. They give the full names, occupations and addresses. A Dr. Miller, a Dr. Calkins, a Lt. Col. Hood, a Commander Rebar Major cars. So we have doctors, probably PhD, physicists and high ranking officials see a light emanating in the shape of a circle of an intensity much greater than that of a bright moon, giving the impression of form in connection with the light. So it's, there's a solid object there. The light was white in appearance and did not show any signs of refraction into a band or continuous spectrum. What does that mean? I don't, I thought. I don't, I don't know.
- [41:13]
A
But very, very descriptive scientific explanation here. Someone who reported this knows what they're talking about.
- [41:20]
B
Yeah, yeah. The object was traveling in a northwesterly direction and appeared to diminish considerably in size during the 30 seconds. Well, because it's, it's moving away the object to another group. So there are other witnesses. They only saw the bright reflection of the sun off an apparently metal surface. Okay. And it goes on to list and it gives the times and the, the. There was radar contact for six minutes. They give you the times that at first the Atomic Energy Commission reported aircraft over the area, but no paint. That means they didn't paint or they didn't get a radar return. By 8:39 they got paint. I love that term. So they know the objects are there. And by 8:45 they had lost contact. Fighter interception was attempted with negative results. Again, we have an object over Oak Ridge Radio, you know, radioactive substances being created there. They have radar, they have reliable witnesses, they scramble fighters. They can't catch it. Weather balloon? I think not.
- [42:54]
A
Took your words right out of my mouth.
- [42:59]
B
I just, I just love this. It's like. It's like swimming in a pool of redemption. It's like, you know. Right.
- [43:09]
A
I like that.
- [43:13]
B
Let's go to Canada now. St. John's Newfoundland, at the Pepperell Air Force Base, February 51. Unidentified object seen at 505510 February, gives the directions by the crew from a Navy crew originally seen as A heavy light in the distance. On the surface, the yellowish light, like fire in color, approached rapidly and grew very bright with a large semicircular shape. And it gives the course. The speed was terrific. Seen at an angle of 45 degrees. Blah, blah, blah. The crew all experienced North Atlantic flyers. And it gives their name, Lieutenant Kroger, Lieutenant King, blah, blah, blah blah. They saw the object for a period of seven to eight minutes as the plane was flying at an altitude of 10,000ft. So now we're in Newfoundland, Canada. An experienced Navy crew, fliers 7 to 8 minutes. A semicircular object. Comments? Anything?
- [44:43]
A
Oh, I've got a quite a few I'm saving for the end.
- [44:45]
B
Okay. Okay, I've got two more. Bear with me. I could have had 100 more. Okay, this is from the SAC, the FBI special agent in charge in Memphis, Tennessee. We're now in April of 52. The subject of the memo. Unknown Object flying objects, Nashville, Tennessee. Okay. Lieutenant Commander Melvin Michael Kuhn, U.S. navy, advised the SAC that at approximately 2:15pm was the following incident. Mr. Kuhn stated at 10:20pm on March 13, 1952, while standing in the backyard of his home at 1900 Graybar Lane. I have to Google that. I want to see right where it was. And looking towards the moon, which was in the southwestern section of the sky, he observed an object which appeared to be 20 degrees above the horizon. Kuhn described the object as being circular in shape, approximately one half the size of the moon. Deep bright blue in color, a very vivid blue. He stated the object had a slight reddish fringe on the aft end. The object appeared to be moving northwest to southeast. Let's see. He said there were no clouds in the sky. The stars were out, the moon was full. He could only describe that it appeared to be a very high powered spotlight on a cloud. But he did not believe this could be the cause because there weren't any clouds and there were no spotlights. But a very interesting, you know, the way that movement would be. So again, a lieutenant commander in the Navy in Tennessee seeing this circular object, intensely vivid bright blue. That's. That's kind of rare in UFO world. All right, I've got one left. And we are. Guess what? Another atomic energy site, the Savannah River Plant, this time which produced tritium and plutonium. Okay, you don't want flying disks over your.
- [47:32]
A
Definitely not.
- [47:33]
B
No. Savannah River Plant Atomic Energy Commission. I guess they used their mimeographed forms for this subject flying disc at approximately 10:45pm May 10 last. So this is 1952, four employees of the Dupont Company employed on Savannah River Plant near Ellington, South Carolina saw four disk shaped objects approaching the 400 area from the south, disappearing in a northerly direction. At approximately 11:5pm above mentioned employees saw two similar objects approach from the south. So we now have six of them. At approximately 11:10pm one similar object approached from the northeast and disappeared in the southwest. One more object at 11:15 traveling from south to north. That is eight disk shaped object buzzing back and forth over the Savannah river plant had it a gold yellow color. All of the objects were traveling at a high rate of speed without any noise that they were, and I love this, they were traveling at an altitude so low one of them had to rise to pass over some tall tanks. So that's very, very low. Again, high rate of speed. Savannah office is not actively conducting investigation in this matter and is furnishing this info to the FBI for whatever action they deem advisable. Like hell they weren't studying this. They have this whole report.
- [49:40]
A
So.
- [49:42]
B
Wow, wow. That is just me doing one small section of this document release. And like you said, it changes the whole government narrative. All these years and we're going back 76 years that this stuff has been known by the government. Actively investigated, actively pursued by investigations and jet fighters and of great high concern to atomic energy plants.
- [50:20]
A
So I have a feeling I'm going to be going down the rabbit hole once my semester ends. Yes, that'll be my summer. My summer fun. I did have a few observations, just things that I was jotting down as you're talking. The first thing I wanted to note is that the Soviets tested their first atomic bomb in August of 49. So it's interesting if we're suddenly seeing an uptick in these unidentified objects in the early 50s into the 1950s like that. I mean, could be a coincidence. It may not be a coincidence. But why are they around all these atomic related sites all of a sudden? The other thing is these reports are so thorough, they're so detailed. The descriptions, what the witnesses see, what they hear, they're not just saying I saw an orb in the sky going pretty fast. You know, these are, these are witnesses who are credible. They're in a position to know advanced information. They're pilots, they've got a lot to lose.
- [51:32]
B
Yes.
- [51:32]
A
And the other interesting thing is no one calls them or suspects them to be aliens. Not once. Do you see? Oh, it's, it's a spaceship from Mars, it's Venus, you know, the Venusians coming to Venetians coming To attack us. You don't even see it being referenced as a Soviet spy craft. You have this genuine. I think the more you read, the. The sense I got was this was a. They genuinely had no idea what was going on. They didn't know what to think. It may be in the back of their head, they thought, are these from outer space? Are these the Russians? But in their reports, there genuinely seems to see this very objective. These are the facts. I'm not drawing a conclusion, not telling you what it could be. I'm telling you what I saw, what I observed. This is just simply the truth.
- [52:30]
B
And they're afraid.
- [52:31]
A
Yes. And I think that is fascinating. That's the theme I'm seeing coming out of just the handful of reports that you're reading. So I can't wait to see what more of these start to bear out and the trends that we see early on in these investigations.
- [52:49]
B
Yeah, it just, it's, it's not your father's bluebook reports. Like you said, these are a higher quality. They are unredacted. You've got names, dates, addresses, who these people were, their credentials. And yeah, these reports are all professionals. Yeah, whatever. Yeah. Whether they're professional pilots, military, FBI. It really was a pleasure reading them. And it was so exciting because, you know, I gotta get to the next one. What is the next one? Are you kidding me? I gotta print this one. I mean, this is just remarkable, this tiny fragment I've read. What else is out there? What else is in this, you know, document release?
- [53:43]
A
Yeah. And, you know, there might not be a smoking gun, as in, you know, there's going to be a report that talks about an alien body being observed and dissected or recovered. You know, maybe, or maybe not. That's somewhere buried in a report. But I think it's the, the cumulative, it's the quality of the reports, the time frame, the witnesses. This is going to do more to boost UFO investigations, or UAP investigations as a credible field of study. Because we're going to go back now and say, look, you've claimed for decades that this is all just a bunch of nonsense. It's Venus, it's swamp gas, it's whatever. Now we're seeing that in reality, you built a very solid foundation for us. You just kept it hidden and made us, made us think we were on shaky ground. But the whole time we've been on really good foundation and now we can prove that. So now what are we going to do with that going forward? This is where I think is going to be Very interesting.
- [54:54]
B
Yes. And you and your mimeographed forms lying like.
- [55:01]
A
Yeah, I can still smell the mimeograph.
- [55:04]
B
I was going to say, remember the story, smell of the mimeograph.
- [55:09]
A
First thing we would do in school is when they handed them out, you pick it up and smell it. That's. It wasn't good for you, I'm sure.
- [55:16]
B
Probably explains a lot why we are. But. Yeah. So, yeah, I am very pleased these were released, and I'm sure they're supposed to be. I. People in the know are saying the best is yet to come. There were videos, There were still photos. Not as many as I was hoping for, but this is the tip of the iceberg, apparently. And we see that, you know, 75, 76 years ago and more, the U.S. government was extremely concerned with the military, with investigating agencies, with atomic energy sites, and with good reason, because there's these disks that are zipping around with impunity. Jet fighters can't, can't catch them. They have them on radar. They have reliable witnesses. And like you said, nothing to see here. All you tin foil hatted nuts, you know, Damn. So.
- [56:24]
A
And they're taking them seriously.
- [56:26]
B
Yeah.
- [56:27]
A
The Atomic Energy Commission to actually have a form to report these.
- [56:32]
B
Yeah.
- [56:34]
A
That's not a. Just, hey, send me a memo on what you saw. Obviously someone sat down. They had to have enough of these reports coming in to say, okay, we need an official way to track these, to document the information, to make it consistent.
- [56:51]
B
Yeah. And that's just over Los Alamos. You need a form just for Los Alamos sightings.
- [56:57]
A
So what is the level of seriousness that they're taking these, I think speaks volumes also to the value of these reports.
- [57:07]
B
Yeah. Yeah.
- [57:08]
A
So I'm excited by this because again, I have not had time to go through and look at these. And just listening to you read them, I'm like, oh, the semester's got to end. I got to dig in. I got to dig in. I got to dig in.
- [57:22]
B
Yeah. I mean, I think there may be more of these episodes in the future. Maybe not. I, I, I couldn't stop. I finally had to, you know, stop, stop printing these. I can't, I can't read anymore.
- [57:34]
A
Well, I think people are, I think people are going to enjoy them because, you know, there's probably so many interesting ones buried.
- [57:43]
B
Yeah.
- [57:43]
A
In there that just are again, they're going to start filling in gaps that the government told us didn't exist.
- [57:50]
B
Yeah. So I hope people, you know, you don't need any special passwords or anything. Go to The War Department website, UFO document release, and there's a whole bunch of files. I just, I picked one at random, opened it up, it was hundreds of pages and I just sat there, you know, scanning, you know, reading through and said, oh, this one's good, this one's good. And like you said, these patterns develop very quickly. That a whole hell of a lot was going on. And they were highly concerned, to use their terminology. So I know I bombarded everybody, but I think it was important to set the stage that this is a small fraction of what was going on. And these are highly significant reports, each and every one of them. And I still want to know what that urgent, you know, everybody on high alert from the Richmond office that the army be on high alert. What. What's going.
- [58:59]
A
And you know, my mind just keeps analyzing this in so many different ways. The seriousness of these reports almost to me explains the buffoonery of Project Blue Book. Yeah, like, like it's almost as if bluebook went out of their way to, ah, look, nothing to see, just look away.
- [59:22]
B
Yeah, that's a great point. Yeah, it was. I said, this is. These are not Blue Book and these are not stupid excuses for them. This is the real deal.
- [59:35]
A
And you know, how many times have we have we read these bluebook reports and shook our heads over the ridiculous conclusions.
- [59:41]
B
Yeah.
- [59:42]
A
And thought, where do they pull this from? And now to me, this almost makes Blue Book make perfectly good sense. Now I know why they pulled out these ridiculous explanations. And again, this is going to fill in a lot of gaps. And I think it's just like you said, this is the tip of the iceberg of information. Who knows where this is going to lead?
- [60:03]
B
Yep. Good time to be a ufologist. Except if you're disappeared or killed, you know, from, from our last episode. But. So I think we've inundated people enough they have to sit and maybe listen two or three more times through this episode because I, I know I bum. Like I said, I bombarded everybody with a lot, but I really wanted to drive home the point. This was. Activity was intense, it was frequent, it was all over the place and the government was scared. They were worried. So take us away in your own inimitable style.
- [60:45]
A
Well, hopefully, if you are listening and you enjoyed this episode, not only are you going to listen to it again, but you're going to share it with your favorite people in your life that needs to hear about UFOs and the new disclosure going on. If you're new to the program, we welcome you. We thank you for joining us. Binge listen to us on your favorite podcast platform. If you've been with us for a long time. We are extremely grateful and humbled by your continued support, your continued listening. And without anybody listening, we wouldn't do this. Okay. Yes, we would it then we would just talk.
- [61:19]
B
We'd still do it. We.
- [61:20]
A
Yes, we would.
- [61:21]
B
But we'd probably do it over a Chinese buffet.
- [61:24]
A
But we're glad that, that you're listening, too. So again, I'm going to say, usually I say keep your eyes on the sky, but today I'm going to tell you to keep your eyes on the government releases. You might see more.
- [61:39]
B
Hudson Riverradio.com a favorite among shut ins and dogs.