← Unashamed with the Robertson Family
Unashamed with the Robertson Family
Ep 1197 | The Robertsons’ First Encounters with Pornography
00:47:37
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- [00:02]
Jason
I am unashamed. What about you? Look, the last event I did, I had a guy come up, and he's like, I got a suggestion. He said, I'd like for y' all to do an episode on the P word. Now, in that moment, I was trying to think of what P word is not.
- [00:26]
Al
That's a dangerous thing appropriate to talk about.
- [00:29]
Jason
I had no idea what he was talking about. And I just said, don't take this the wrong way, but you're gonna have.
- [00:37]
Al
To tell him what that P word.
- [00:38]
Jason
What is that P word? And so he said, porn. And I was like, oh.
- [00:46]
Zach
I would say probably. One of the number one questions we get on the podcast is about when people are stuck in pornography addiction. And it is a scourge on our society. It's a real threat. I mean, it's touched every family in America. And so we're gonna. We're gonna spend the next 45 minutes talking about that because of our friends over at Covenant Eyes. Yeah, Al, you were wearing the. The frontline 21 hat and a few episodes back, and we're gonna give a few of these away. So if you want one, you got to Download the free Frontline 21 field manual. And they got a devotional as well@frontline21.com and leave a comment right here in the episode on YouTube or Spotify to tell us what you. Why you or the men in your family are frontline 21 men. A frontline 21 man is this.
- [01:33]
Jason
This is what is what it means.
- [01:35]
Zach
It's a man who embraces biblical masculinity. It's not something we need to run from, but something we need to run toward. Forged in responsibility, discipline, sacrificial love. He's a man who chooses moral courage over compromise, servant leadership over pride, sexual integrity over lust, brotherhood over isolation, stewardship over ways. That's the kind of men that we want to be.
- [01:59]
Jason
Well, look, you got to remember, I was raised in an environment. When we asked my dad a question, and I'll. I'll be. I'll start the vulnerability off here. I was at school in the third grade, Al, and one of my new little buddies, because we were. I was at a new school. That was the first year that we moved down on the river that I went to school, and I was in the third grade. And one of these kids said something. He said, I had vd. Well, I didn't know what that meant. And all his buddies laughed. So I went home. After the one hour bus ride. Al, you remember those?
- [02:45]
Al
Remember him?
- [02:45]
Jason
Well, I walk in there to my dad, and I was like, hey, this kid said I had vd. What is that? He said, have a seat here.
- [02:57]
Al
You talk about a softball to feel.
- [02:59]
Jason
My dad started the conversation off with a lot of words I had never heard before.
- [03:06]
Al
Chlamydia, gonorrhea, syphilis.
- [03:10]
Jason
I did not know that they were sexually transmitted diseases at that point of my life. And so the only thing I remember after that, after the speech on all the diseases and all that, he was like, there are things out there that will rot everything you have off. It was real graphic. I remember that part. And I thought, ooh, I don't want to.
- [03:38]
Zach
Probably not the best way to have to talk with your kid. You know what I mean? I'm just going to.
- [03:43]
Jason
Well, I'm just trying to set the tone for, like. I asked a simple question.
- [03:48]
Al
What is vd?
- [03:50]
Zach
You got both barrels.
- [03:52]
Jason
And so, look, I remember the part about rotting flesh and all that. And then he said, here's what I want you to remember. He's like, I want you to keep that thing in your pocket till you get married, and you won't have to worry about it. And I never forgot that. And I actually am thankful because I. I never thought about that again until I started dating. And, you know, the first time that I had a woman make a move on me, you know, in a way that I knew this was headed toward the wrong direction because it was way too easy. I should have just ran immediately, but. And all that, that speech just hit me right between the eyes. I started thinking about it. I was like, oh, no, I gotta go. You know, so. But. So I'm thankful for that. But it is an awkward conversation, but I do think it's got to be top two or three detriments to men, right?
- [04:57]
Al
Well, and the. And the main reason why is because it is the. It is the greatest lie I think probably the evil one has come up with in some time. I mean, you know, you think back, he's been doing this since the garden. We talk a lot about it. In terms of lying, Jesus said he was a liar from the beginning. He was a murderer. He's a thief. He kills, destroys. So he's had a series of lies that have worked through humanity in different ways. And this is not necessarily a new one, but I do think in the last hundred years, to take. Because even in our lifetime, Jason, you talked about this at some point. The first time you went with your buddies, somebody broke out some pornography. And back in our day, that meant magazine that that was how it was presented to people, and that's usually how it found its way in the hands of young boys and young men.
- [05:50]
Jason
I was gonna. I'm glad you brought that up, because our culture has definitely changed. And, you know, in my mind as a kid and teenager, pornography was the magazines, which my buddies, all through middle school and all there was. You know, they'd bring a magazine up, you know, and I'm like, huh? I mean, they're just holding it up. It's like, not like I'm. I mean, you. You can't unsee what you said. They hold it up.
- [06:19]
Al
You look.
- [06:19]
Jason
It's like, wow.
- [06:20]
Al
Because in their minds, they had discovered this. And they were like, we want to just show everybody what we've discovered.
- [06:27]
Jason
But, you know, in. In my world down there on the riverbank, there weren't any magazines around. You know, we had three channels on the tv. So, you know, know, we were protected from that, which I'm thankful for.
- [06:39]
Al
Me too.
- [06:40]
Jason
And now, through technology and just TV and you. There's so many channels, and it's just not hard to find that. And.
- [06:51]
Al
And that's why I'm saying the. The lie. And the reason I called a lie is because it's. It's not real. It. It's. It's a real person. It's real people that are. Used to be on the pages. Now they're on the Internet or the phone or, you know, wherever people go to find pornography or it finds you. But the lies just now spread in a larger way and then gets to people at a younger age. I mean, that's what's happened. But the reason I called a lie is because it's not real. The real thing is a real person, you know, the real person that. That you get into the bed with at night. Your wife, your husband, your. You know, what God has created and is a beautiful good thing. And it's funny because you started this out by talking about this kid bringing up what happens when it's not beautiful and it's not good and it's diseased or what, you know, all the bad things that come as a result of this lifestyle and behavior. But that's the. That's the lie of it. And so, you know, I just. That's the thing that got me finally, because I struggle with this young. I was exposed very young. I would say probably 7 or 8 years old, because pornography. Pornography. Because, you know, we lived in this bar and Jace was too young to remember, but there were people that would always be around and so that's where I saw. It was other kids that were older than me that had it, just like with you. But I was so much younger even than what you're describing. And so, you know, I was drawn to it. I just thought, oh, yeah, this is like, man, this is something. This is good. And so then that lie embedded that in me. And so then I spent many of my younger years, even once married, just believing the lie and that, you know, then it was easier to find it. So you looked it up, and then it became a video, and then it became something you watched.
- [08:33]
Jason
So it was bad luck for you because, you know, I was smaller, even though I have a few memories. You know, I mean, I'm like, my parents made this transformation when I'm in third grade, new school, wilderness. But you were a teenager, you know, 12, 13. And so the damage had already been done. But what I was going to say is even that the exposure now has turned into just something. I mean, I kind of remember the first time I heard a sermon. It was three B's. About kind of. As a teenager, the problem is your bill fold. You compare yourself to other men on how much money you're gonna make. And so that was kind of the driving force, or what you do on the ball field. You want to have this kind of conquering mentality. But then it was also the bedroom. So it was like. That was the biggest temptation of, like, all my buddies as a teenager. It was like, oh, it's just trying to conquer a woman, you know, in high school or even in middle school and do something with it and then tell all your buddies about it, you know, and it's like that. But now it's, you know, to think of another B word. It's more of a Bewitched.
- [09:58]
Al
Yeah, that's it.
- [10:00]
Jason
Illusion.
- [10:00]
Al
That's a great word of just.
- [10:03]
Jason
Yeah. And it's kind of got a demonic.
- [10:06]
Zach
Yeah, because I think what happens is I was like you, Al. I was very young when I was first exposed to porn. What's interesting about that? And we were. We tried to get Dr. Trent Langhofer on the podcast, but he had a schedule conflict. But we definitely. We will have him back to talk about this subject. But he said. Told me something one time that, I don't know, it was liberating for me to hear it, but it was also kind of painful for me to hear it because I thought about my own life. But I was exposed to pornography at a young age. I was 11 years old. And I remember it. I mean, it was Like a moment. And it was an older guy, like a 17, 18 year old boy that I was at my friend's house and his brother came there and said, have you ever seen a porn? And I was like, I don't even know what that is. And he had a videotape and he put it in the back in the day. He had videotapes, VCRs. He put that in the VCR and I was like, whoa. And it was a dopamine hit like I had never experienced. And Trent said something years later that just made so much sense to me. He said, early exposure to pornography. And by early exposure it was pre puberty if you were exposed to that kind of pornography. He said, I had the same effect on you as being sexually molested. And it made a lot of sense to me because that was an imprint in me that I dealt with for years. And I never told anybody. I didn't tell my dad, I didn't tell anybody. I was so filled with shame and I enjoyed it. So you feel guilty because it is desirable and you had this intense, like, feeling and then you feel guilty about it and then you feel shameful. Then you. And then it just started for me, a cycle of hiding. And I think that that early exposure was probably like. That set me on a trajectory of sin for many years. And so this topic, you know, is super important to me because also being in college ministry for as long as I have, like, this is. This was the dominant issue. And like, nobody talk. Well, I think we're getting better about this, but in a lot of settings, nobody wants to talk about this, but this is really probably the frontline battle that men are facing with right now in 2025, and women too, for that matter. It's not even isolated now to just men.
- [12:29]
Al
I agree. And remember, our good friends at Covenant Eyes are sponsoring this episode. They've got a new thing they're doing called Frontline 21. You can download the field manual and the devotional frontline21.com and that's doing this whole podcast about this subject because like the gentleman told you, it does affect us all in some way, one way or the other. Even if you. And it's a blessing if you never did get into it. But as we know, most of us have been exposed at some point. I didn't realize that, Zach, what you said about what Trent told you, but that's a great way to describe that, what happens. Because you should not be exposed to that at that young age. And yet you are. And that's the lie of it. And that's why the seed is planted. And so. But look, it's fake. And that's what helped me to later in life realize that. And it took. It took till I was, you know, I don't know, maybe in my 30s, before I began to realize that when I had daughters. And then I began to think, you know, what if somebody were looking at my daughters or my wife in this way? And how would that make. How would I feel about that? Because I started just like. Then you start thinking like Jesus thinks, like empathizing that man, this is someone's daughter. This is someone's wife. This is someone's girlfriend. This is someone's sister. You know, it's not right for you to look at her this way and to think the thoughts that you're thinking. And that's when I realized it was just all based on such a fragile lie that if you just could somehow get truth into your mindset, that that's not what you want to do, then. Then you break that stronghold. It's like any other thing for truth.
- [14:13]
Jason
I think it goes back to the foundation of the creation story, when God said, it's not good for man to be alone. And so he created a woman. And here we go, male and female united in marriage. The two become one flesh. Well, everyone that's been married, you realize, well, that comes with some difficulty. I mean, sure, I mean, sex is great. It was God's idea. I mean, he put in men that appeal to be visually stimulated, you know, but then here you are, you know, you fast forward to now how available pornography is. And now you have an illusion by yourself and just letting your mind, you know, go wild. Well, that's going to hurt your ability to have a real relationship.
- [15:09]
Al
That's it.
- [15:10]
Jason
And so it kind of goes back to that. It's not good for man to be alone. And what makes it worse is now your idea of reality has been tainted because all that difficulty and winning your, you know, your wife over. And even. Even as you're married, you have this. I don't know how to describe it, but it's. It's a combative relationship because you're. It brings out the best in you, but also the worst. So those are the moments where you're, you know, throughout that difficulty in that process that never stops. I'm married 35 years. You know, we're still having tiffs here and there, but that. Working it all out, that's what provides the foundations. And this, it just enhances the relationship. And Brings out the best in sex and what it should be and, you know, having a safe place to be.
- [16:05]
Zach
Yeah. Well, I'll say this, though. Like, I think one of the things that I tried to attack this battle in my own life with, and this is I think you have to have truth, but it's not just truth. And the Bible does say that we're liberated by truth, but the problem is, is that truth alone, it won't transform you. And I'll give you an explanation of this, that there's a Barna. I'd looked this up. The Barna research found recently that 67% of pastors. Pastors have reported engaging with pornography at least some point in their life. 18% say they are currently struggling with it. 75% of Christian men, 40% of Christian women report viewing pornography at some level. So this is not something that's, like, rare. And even in the church, you can know that it's wrong. You can know the devastating effects of it. You can know that it's making you depressed, anxious. You can know all the right things about it and still be controlled by it. And so it's one of the reasons why this frontline 21 thing, I want to stress it, and there's other things, too, but this is a. You have to break the rhythm, right? You have to get into a different rhythm. Rhythm. And the way that you overcome pornography addiction, first and foremost is, I think, very clear in James, chapter five. You have to confess. The Bible says to confess your sins so that you may be healed. I never could find any real liberation from any kind of sexual sin in my life. Lusting porn. Name whatever it is until I confessed it. And I'll add this to it. It's not just confessing, because I can confess to my buddy, and that's good, and that's helpful, but he's just kind of. Yeah, we all deal with that. It's a whole nother thing to confess to your wife, to the one that you're violating, because that has. Now you got skin of the game. And, I mean, I never could find real liberation without confessing to Jill. And that's when we really, truly found a breakthrough in our marriage, was when I opened up that part of my life and said, hey, I'm dealing with. I'm lusting after women that aren't you. And she was devastated by that. And it really hurt our marriage in a lot of ways, temporarily, but that was the birthplace for us of intimacy. And then after the confession, you have to find new rhythms. You really do but you can find freedom from it. But you have to enter into a different rhythm because we are what we consume. And so if you're consuming TikTok every day, and that's why I'm like, maybe I'm out there on a limb here, but I don't like video games because I don't want to train my mind and my kids minds. I don't want them to be trained for that dopamine hit of video games and TikTok and Instagram. If you're constantly consuming that, then you're setting your brain patterns up to. And then you get into porn. So it's a rhythm thing. But if you can change your rhythm and what you consume, if you consume something different, then you will become something different. You will. You will worship what you behold. And so if you're beholding entertainment, then that's what you will eventually begin to worship. So I think it's more than just truth. I think it's truth coupled with discipline.
- [19:18]
Al
Yeah. And it takes you back to the truth because that's what confession does, Zach. Because then it allows you to be honest and truthful to the person you love the most. I do like that you said that. It's not just about us. Part of that is us, you know, obviously as men adhering to what these guys are talking about. But it's also then training your. Your. Your sons and your daughters, but especially the sons in a different way. We had the. We had the professor on from New York, I can't recall his name right now, that wrote the book about this. And when he.
- [19:56]
Zach
Jonathan Height.
- [19:57]
Al
Yeah, Height. We didn't talk specifically, maybe we talked a little bit about pornography, but we talked a lot about the effect of social media, the phone, early exposure. Certainly this is part of that. Zach, you remember you and I read a. We were going to Washington D.C. one time for an event or something, and we picked up a Time magazine in the airport. And I picked it up because on the front thing it said, you know, pornography is destroying America or something. And it got my attention because I recognized the author of the article because she had done an article on dad a year earlier or so for Time magazine. So. And so we read it together on the plan, you and I, and it was really interesting because there's now there's been. The phones have been around long enough and the computers that now they can. You can have studies for people, you know, so outside of Christianity and everything we're talking about. And so this article was about porn's effect on boys and Young men. And there was this. Now there's this new thing. And this was a few years ago, so I'm sure it's worse now. It's called pied. It's porn induced erectile dysfunction. And these were young men who had been exposed from very early ages of consistent pornography on their phones, on their, whatever, computer. And so then they're in their 20s, so now they're like, having relationships with women, you know, whether they're marrying them or just living together, whatever. But they're impotent. I mean, they can have sex with a real woman because the only way they could function is through this fake computer. I mean, through something they were watching, to your point, Zach, earlier, that you were saying, so again, this just shows you the extension of how powerful this delusion is in this lie. And what they were saying was these young men now were like, banding together and saying, we got to do something about this pornography. We got to do, because not in.
- [21:50]
Zach
The name of Jesus.
- [21:51]
Al
Not in the name of Jesus, right?
- [21:52]
Zach
They're like, we want to have sex and we can't anymore. So we're banding together because we know the effects of porn are hurting our sexual vitality. And it's staggering to think about that, that young men sexually impotent because of pornography addiction. And that's. And look, if you're hearing that and you're like, that's me, here's what you need to understand, though, is that even that can be redeemed. One of the things I learned, because I used to work in neurochemistry, I worked for a biotech company, I spent 15 years selling treatments for different types of psychiatric disorders. And your brain has. Inside your brain, you have these things called neurotransmitters. And you have dopamine, serotonin, norepinephrine. And these neurotransmitters are what regulate your moods and everything. And so what happens is there's one called dopamine, which is like a. That's like your pleasure neurotransmitter. And so when you feel joy, you feel happiness, when there's sexual arousal, that's dopamine. What happens with, like, if you take crystal meth, for example, then you have a surge of dopamine that's released in your synaptic cleft in your brain, and that's why you get that intense high. Well, you get the same exact type of dopaminergic release in your brain when you consume pornography, particularly when you reinforce that with masturbation or something like that. And you become addicted to it. You say, well, how do I get out of that? I mean, if I. If you're training your body to respond to sexually in a certain way, and then. Yeah, then when you get in the real situation with your wife, you know, you can't perform because.
- [23:31]
Al
Why?
- [23:31]
Zach
Well, because you've got this addiction that you're literally physically and chemically addicted to the pornography and so how do I get out of that? Well, the first thing you do is you stop. And you can actually, I mean, but it does work.
- [23:46]
Al
BOB Newhart COUNSELING Just stop it.
- [23:50]
Jason
Well, I was going to share one story because I was going to say that when you went the same place I was going to go, I think the porn leads to masturbation. And then you're in this trap where you have this fear of rejection from an actual woman that develops. And I was going to tell this story. I mean, back when I went through about seven, eight years of playing every kind of intramural ball game you could play. And I was so competitive. You remember those days, me and Willie were on all these teams and football, baseball or fast pitch softball, but. And we were so competitive, we would have. We didn't care who they were. But if you had talent, you know, we wanted to win. We had this guy who was just like, you know, good looking guy, athletic, one of the best players on our team. Not a believer, but he had skills. So it's like, come on. And he was dating, I mean, one of the hottest women you. You could ever imagine. Just looked like a Barbie doll. And as we played and look back then, I was pretty aggressive about sharing Jesus. So I took a couple of shots at him, you know, because I could just tell by the way he talked. But, you know, I could tell it was a tough sell for him because he's, look, he's got this hot girlfriend, he's one of the best players on the team, he's had a great job, making a bunch of money. He just wasn't interested. But I said all that to say this. After three or four years, he marries that woman. They got divorced two weeks later. And I'm like, what happened? I mean, how do you get divorced in a couple weeks? And so I made it a mission to figure that out. I was like, I mean, because I was trying to help. I was like, these people need Jesus. And the story I got, who knows whether it was true, but the story I got was on their wedding night. Shockingly, this was the first time that they had actually had sex, you know, and he could not perform because of the same things we're talking about. And he was so embarrassed. He's like, I can't do this. And got divorced, walked away and walked away. And I just thought this is, this is what happens when you're in your own little world in pornography and all this, and you're just kind of self reliant and you have now the hottest woman you could find. And it didn't matter. I mean, that's how much of a delusion it was. But it really affected me in a positive way about thinking this is where it all goes wrong here. This is the lie.
- [26:38]
Zach
What you got to have that vision in your mind of what this leads to. So truth does matter in the situation. So I think you start with that. Like you start with, this is a lie from the pits of hell and the end result of it, I mean, think about what pornography is. You're literally like essentially consuming sexual arousal with an image. You have no skin in the game. There's no fear of rejection. Like, look, for me to have sex with Jill, and I mean now we've been married for, you know, 25 years. If I want to have sex with Jill, let me tell you what, what has to take place. One, I, I, I better start like treating her nice that day. I better see, I better like. It's a process. It ain't just a snap the finger. There's no like, you know what I mean?
- [27:24]
Jason
You have to embrace the process.
- [27:26]
Zach
You got embrace the process and you got to think in advance. Hey, what do you, hey, tomorrow night.
- [27:31]
Al
Jason goes and catches fish. And you know, he's got all his ways too.
- [27:35]
Jason
It wasn't the plan. What I'm saying is you have to document when, when, once that happens, you look back and think, how did we get here? You know what, I caught those fish.
- [27:51]
Zach
I caught the, cleaned them, you know.
- [27:52]
Jason
I cooked them, I served them to her on a platter.
- [27:58]
Al
Marriage, is that called foreplay?
- [28:00]
Jason
Well, you have to take a shower because now I smell like fish. But I cleaned up and boy, I'm looking around thinking, you're like, this is, this thing went down a nice road. I need to figure out how to do this again without making it that noticeable. And so I, you know, you know.
- [28:19]
Zach
It'S funny, that is, I, you learn the little tricks like so my beard will grow up my face and Jill hates it. So if I shave it down to here, she likes that. And so if I look, if I'm thinking that way, then what, I just shave it all up and she'll say, oh, you look nice, or whatever, but. And even that's not a guarantee, right? I mean, so, like, you have skin in the game.
- [28:38]
Jason
It's not a guarantee for you, but for me, Zach, look, I did. Now, I know we're speaking to older gentlemen now, but I have that strategy in my pocket because we're all different and we all bring different sets of baggage to a relationship. But my wife and I, we've only been with each other, which is great. That's the way God designed it.
- [29:04]
Al
It's the best.
- [29:05]
Jason
And, you know, I'm sorry if you didn't go that way. Jesus died on a cross to have a new beginning. So I'm not making light of that. But you say, what's your problem? Well, there is a problem, because the evil one is always going to come at you in whatever situation there is. So with us, there's a curiosity, because we've never been with anyone else. And so that's the first thing that pops in your head, just like, oh, because I've had women since I've been married, especially when we became famous, you know, make a move. I mean, like, just go, right. Cut to the chase.
- [29:42]
Al
And one time, on a cruise ship, we were taking pictures, right?
- [29:46]
Jason
Let's not bring that up. No, my wife got mad about that.
- [29:50]
Al
I think she. In front of Mrs. She was like, I'm gonna sit on his lap. And Missy said, oh, no, you ain't.
- [29:55]
Jason
I've told that story. And I didn't respond well because I told her. I was like, well, the only reason you're so mad is because she looked like a supermodel. Which I thought that was part of the context. But don't ever. That was a bad move because she really got mad when I said that. But. But what I was gonna say is. What was I gonna say?
- [30:16]
Al
Sorry, Jace, I threw you off there.
- [30:18]
Jason
Yeah. What was it going to say?
- [30:19]
Al
While you're thinking of it, don't forget Download the free Frontline 21 field manual and devotional. This episode is about what the guys at Covenant Eyes are doing on frontline 21. It's frontline21.com.
- [30:31]
Zach
Yeah, because we're talking about porn. But honestly, porn is.
- [30:34]
Al
Is.
- [30:35]
Zach
Is like the most visceral part of this. But what we're really talking about is. Is biblical masculinity. And. And if you look. If you want to subjugate a people. And our church, we've been in the book of Exodus, and the first thing they did was they neutered the males. They Tried to kill all the males. If you shut down masculinity, then you can subjugate a people. So I think the enemy intentionally, he's targeting us. He's trying to get us to lull us into porn, to lull us into video game addiction, to lull us into apathy. And just the things that just would just make us not be who true men are. Have moral courage, servant leadership, brotherhood, stewardship. This is the call. That's why I love this frontline 21 ministry. Because it's more than just like getting off porn. What it is. It's about becoming a man.
- [31:24]
Al
Yeah, we made it, all of us realize that, that it takes effort to, and it should take effort to have an intimate relationship with another person. I mean at the level you have in a marriage. And so this is a cheap fake version of that. Because if it only ends in seconds of release that have no quality to them, then what has it? I mean, that's why you feel empty and hollow. And you guys out there that are listening, you know this to be true. Why do you feel so bad after that happens? Because you realize how fake it is. It's not real.
- [31:59]
Zach
Your body's not designed for that. Like actually your body is not designed to be able to have sexual conquest like that. You're not designed this way. Which is why that's what's leading to just this overwhelming depression that people feel. Men feel. Men feel extremely depressed and shame ridden. Anxiety disorders are through the roof. And I think one of the primary reasons is because we're giving ourselves over to this idolatry of pornography addiction and it is wrecking us.
- [32:30]
Al
Well, here's what Jesus said about it. Matthew 6:22. And again, it's interesting because he doesn't say the word pornography, but you tell me if it's not in this context. The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are healthy, and he's not talking about glaucoma here, he's talking about what you're looking at. Your whole body will be full of light. But if your eyes are unhealthy, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness? Now if that's not porn, if he's not talking about what we now see as that, I don't know what it's talking about.
- [33:04]
Jason
You see where my Bible is?
- [33:05]
Al
Yep, there you go.
- [33:06]
Jason
Well, we didn't talk about it before, but before I read this, what I'm going to read, I wasn't going to Read that verse. But I was going to go to the Sermon on the Mount, but I remembered what I was going to say is, you have to have an exit strategy for when this comes up, because half the people on the planet are women. You're going to see them before you ever get to porn. You're going to have an opportunity to lust. So you have to have an exit strategy. And whatever that is in your mind. I mean, for believers, it has to be, of all the women on this planet, God has given me this woman. She's mine. And I've made a vow to God. And that's why even in the wedding vows and the marriage vows, I don't remember anything about that wedding ceremony, except two things. I remember when she came out and they were playing the music, and I thought, oh, my goodness. I mean, wow. Yeah, I remember that. And just a physical feeling came over my body. Like, of all the women on the planet, I have one that's saying, she's.
- [34:23]
Al
Giving herself to me.
- [34:24]
Jason
Oh, yeah, let's do this. And I don't want to ever forget that.
- [34:28]
Al
Yeah, that's good.
- [34:29]
Jason
Because I'm like, she's mine. And the other thing was, when I was asked, you know, around the preacher, which was Ray Melton, who used to preach at the church where you preach at now, Al, he said, this is a vow to God, you know, because I just never thought about, I promised God. And so I think those two vows or that feeling I saw has to present itself because there are going to be opportunities. And we all screwed up, you know, and we're confessing our faults here. But that was the exit strategy at some point. What am I doing? This is my woman. And our dad famously used to say that, hey, sex is in. Go find you a woman. I mean, how many times he'd tell young bucks that he's like, find you one. Work at it. You know, take a shower, do whatever you got to do. But I'm sure you'll find one and then get after it. Just funnel all your passion right there. So I do think that's important. But I'm glad you brought up Matthew 6, because I was led to Matthew 5, and I don't know, I've never heard this kind of given in this light. But when you think about it, really trying to figure this out and how God can help us in this is what I'm getting at. He brings up this idea in verse 27 of chapter 5 where he says, you have heard that it was said, do not commit adultery. But I tell you, anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. And I wanted to bring up those last three words there in his heart. Because when you read Matthew 6, 23 or 22 and 23, the eyes, the lamp of the body, if your eyes are good, your whole body will be full of light. But if your eyes are bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. Well, you know what the verse right before that says? For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. Well, the other place heart is mentioned is in the Beatitudes when he says, blessed are the pure. And I looked that Greek word up. Clean, clean in heart, for they will see God. So really this is about your heart, what's going on in your decision making process deep down in your soul. Cause it's the only way to make sense about what he's fixing us at. When he said, you've heard, that was said, don't commit adultery. But I tell you that if you look at a woman lustfully, you've already committed adultery with her in his heart. And then he comes up with the most graphic language imaginable in the entire Bible. And it's hard to wrap your head around this. He says, if your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. So whatever he means, he's saying, this is serious. This can control you and take over your life. It's better just to gouge your eye out. But you're like, well, why is he using this graphic illustration? And let me read the rest of it. It says it is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And immediately, I think, no one ever says this, but you're immediately thinking, well, I know which part of my body is the problem here, you know, but he was saying he was making a point. I'm not talking about that, about, you all know, adultery's wrong, but he's taking it further. And he brings this idea of the heart because really that's what has to change to get you out of that. He made a graphic illustration about cutting things off. But he's basically saying that's not going to do any good.
- [38:29]
Zach
Because his point is it's not your eye that's causing you the problem.
- [38:33]
Jason
That's the part you have to have a heart transformation. And really, then that really starts getting into the good news of Jesus. And I'm reminded of that prophecy. I think it's in Ezekiel 36, where he's like, I'll give you a new heart. And he talks about giving us the Holy Spirit. I mean, this is. This is cutting edge. Being transformed in Christ. He's got to move in here and make some changes, which is why you.
- [39:06]
Al
Have to go back. You have to go back to heart first to then make a decision to affect eyes, to then affect every other part of your life. And don't forget, you can Download the free Frontline 21 Field Manual and their devotional Frontline21.com Our good friends over at Covenant Eyes. And they get. I'm assuming they get their name from one of my favorite passages, which is job 31, which job was an ancient man. But, you know, you learn a lot from the ancients. Because when you were talking a minute ago, J. I thought about Joseph, his declaration in Genesis 29 when he said. Or Genesis 39 when he said. When Mrs. Potipher was trying to get him to sleep with her. And he was like, how could I do such a thing? And sin against God? So he had made that same vow to God too. And even though she was technically his boss and he was a slave, he was like, no, I mean, I'm not going to do that. But I want to read these two passages together. Job 31. 1. I made a covenant with my eyes. This is that idea. The covenant you make is your heart. But he says, then that affects my eyes. To do what? Not to look lustfully at a girl. So he's saying, I'm making this decision, but then I want to read what happens later. Because this whole chapter in Job 31 is about character. He says, if my heart. There you go. Jace has been enticed by a woman. Or if I have lurked at my neighbor's door, then may my wife grind another man's grain. I don't even know what that means, but it sounds terrible. And may other men sleep with her. And so you get this idea that, you see, it's always this point where it starts someplace and it goes someplace really bad. And you know you're following the lies of the Evil One when you get on this train. And that's why these things will happen. It'll. It'll start out with just a little bit of pornography, and then it wounds up some social media contact and singles looking for somebody and blah, blah, blah. And the next thing you know, your marriage and your family are destroyed. And so that's when you know the Evil One has done his best work when he does it.
- [41:10]
Zach
And I'll add this. I'll add this Al. And we've all. We. We've all done a ton of marital counseling as being in the church over the years. I've never done one. I've never been involved in one broken marriage where pornography wasn't involved. That may be just my experience. I don't know about y', all, but that has been my experience.
- [41:29]
Al
Agreed. It's always a factor. And, and again, typically on the male side, but not always, unfortunately. Zach, you mentioned that a minute ago. Unfortunately, one of the sharpest increases over the last probably two decades have been women now viewing pornography as well. And for whatever reasons, maybe differently, maybe connected. But again, these emotional affairs, I can't tell you how many times it starts there with the pictures back and forth now. And there's just. What's happened is the evil one has taken technology by storm and now it's just new ways.
- [42:05]
Zach
Well, I think it's that dopamine addiction, which is. I know we're running out of time here, but if you're stuck in this, because I. I know there's a lot of people listening right now. They're like, feeling the conviction of the Holy Spirit. They're like, that's me, that's me, that's me. And you're trying to hide that. You're trying to suppress that. You're like, don't listen. Don't let it convict you. My first advice to you is this, Let the Holy Spirit convict you. Yes, I know it's scary, but let him convict you. And then two, repent. And then two. You got to confess this to somebody. Particularly if your spouse, or if not your spouse can't do that yet. Then start with a pastor, start with somebody, and then do something different. That's why this frontline 21 ministry. Do that. Go download it. Go do a 21 day devotional and enter into a season of prayer and see if God doesn't start to change. You got to move.
- [42:53]
Jason
I want to say this. So what was that verse you read, Al, when you said. I don't know what that mean about the grain?
- [42:58]
Al
Oh, that's 31 10. May my wife grind another man's grain.
- [43:02]
Jason
Of which book?
- [43:04]
Al
Job. Job 31:10.
- [43:06]
Jason
So I wanted to bring this up because when he gave those Beatitudes, he was introducing the kingdom of God. This is what we're supposed to look like. And we're supposed to be clean in heart, pure in heart. And you remember how it starts out when he's like, blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Being a part of the kingdom. And it made me think of when they were questioning God's choice of picking a king in David. And there's an obscure verse there in 1 Samuel 16, 7 that says, man looks out, looks at the outward appearance of a man, but God looks at the heart. And that same word came up in Job about the heart. And I wanted to zero in on that because in Zechariah 9, which is quoted about the coming King Jesus, he would come riding up on a donkey. This is real interesting. And I noticed this last night because it sent me down this rabbit hole of changing your heart. He goes on to say in the end of that chapter, the Lord God will save his people because King Jesus would come and he would bring his kingdom. And he gives you the attitudes of the heart that we as men should portray. And after he says that in Zechariah 9, 16, in verse 17, it says, how attractive and beautiful they will be. Talking about the shepherd who's saving his flock. They will sparkle in his land like jewels in a crown. But listen to the last two sentences of Zechariah 9. How attractive and beautiful they will be. Grain will make the young men thrive and new wine the young women. And it gives you this picture that in the kingdom and in the flock and this transforming of new hearts, it will give men the ability to truly be men and thrive. And women will be the celebration of that. And it goes back to that context of the marriage covenant. God's way is the best way. If everyone performed that way. If everyone performed that way. Just think of how our culture would be if there was one man and one woman for life and they had kids and they trained them in that. There would be no sexual disease, there would be no jealousy, there would be no porn, there would be no. It would all be gone. So I just wanted to bring that up to say, you have to think about the big picture in this and.
- [45:40]
Al
You can be renewed. Remember, it's frontline21.com and I wanted to close out with this. They have their five shields. And Zach mentioned this earlier, but I want to mention it again. So good Moral courage. Stand for Biblical truth against cultural compromise. Our culture is swamped with this, but we're going to be different. Servant leadership. Lead through sacrificial love. Guiding and protecting others. And that starts with you, but that's all. Also your family. Sexual integrity. Live with moral wholeness that builds trust and rejects hidden compromise. That's what Zach was talking about. It's a lie. Brotherhood. This is how we help each other commitment to accountability, shared mission with men of conviction. That's what this podcast is about. Unashamed. And then stewardship. To use strength, resources and influence to protect, provide and build. So you can Download the free Frontline 21 Field Manual devotional frontline21.com these guys at Covenant Eyes have been doing it for many years. They helped me 25 years ago, you know, to be a better man. And so that continues on to this day. So I'm glad we dedicated an episode to this. I know a lot of you have been asking about it. Look, it's like anything else. Change is made when you allow the Holy Spirit to change your heart. And then that affects your eyes. What you look at, what you see. And then it affects every other part of your life. So that's the step you have to take. So it starts with that. Check these guys out. They can help you. I promise they will bring accountability in. But it's the Holy Spirit's going to make the change. So we appreciate you guys being a part of this episode. It's very important. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.