Ep 1211 | Jase Revisits His Final Throwdown with Willie & How Jesus Ends the Real Battles

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: Unashamed with the Robertson Family
Episode: Ep 1211 | Jase Revisits His Final Throwdown with Willie & How Jesus Ends the Real Battles
Date: November 18, 2025
Hosts: Al, Jay, Zach (with guest Paul Marty from Tomorrow Clubs)

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Overview: Episode Theme & Purpose

In this episode, the Robertson family reflects on memorable sibling battles—both literal and spiritual—centering on Jase’s infamous throwdown with his brother Willie. Through family anecdotes and biblical insights, the episode draws parallels between everyday conflicts and the deeper spiritual battles addressed by Jesus’ death and resurrection. The hosts dig into how Jesus brings ultimate peace and fulfillment to humanity, connecting personal stories to scriptural truths about the crucifixion, the fulfillment of Jewish festivals, and the transformation offered through the Gospel. A segment with Tomorrow Clubs highlights the ongoing mission to disciple children globally.

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Key Segments & Insights (with Timestamps)

1. Family Dynamics and Sibling Rivalries

[01:05–11:22]

• The show opens with the Robertson brothers recounting Willie's legendary role as big brother and prankster.
• Notable Anecdote: Willie once tackled a friend and filled his ear with Cheese Whiz during a prank war.
  • “Whatever your thing is, he’s going to times it by 10.” – Zach [03:19]
• Jase and Al recall a serious wrestling match between Jase and Willie over who got to use the oven, which ended with Willie being dropped on a five-gallon bucket of flour.
  • “There really wasn’t punches thrown. It was more of a grappling… I managed to lift him and drop him on a five-gallon bucket of flour which exploded.” – Jase [05:48]
  • The heated altercation was rebuked by a family friend, reminding them of the Christian call to love:
    “Well, that was a fine way for two godly men to act.” – Don Curly Foster, as recalled by Jase [06:52]
• Reflection: The brothers recognize these fights were rooted in pride and human impulse, ultimately fading as maturity and faith grew.

2. Jesus, Jewish Festivals, and the Crucifixion Parallel

[14:59–35:20]

• In-depth Scripture Study: The hosts continue their slow journey through the Gospel of John, particularly focusing on John 19 and the lead-up to Jesus’ crucifixion.
• Jase explores how John's Gospel meticulously places Jesus’ death within the Jewish festivals of Passover, Unleavened Bread, and First Fruits, pointing out the prophetic fulfillment in Jesus.
  • “I would argue that it’s John’s rabbit holes of connecting the dots to Jewish history… He seems to be purposefully mentioning this is Passover week.” – Jase [15:32, 17:59]
• The timeline of Jesus’ death and resurrection is discussed in light of Jewish tradition (Leviticus 23), emphasizing the spiritual symbolism over literal 72-hour reckoning.
• Connections are made between Old Testament festivals and Jesus’ work:
  • Passover: Jesus is the sacrificial Lamb.
  • Unleavened Bread: Jesus as the “Bread of Life,” sinless and pure.
  • First Fruits: Jesus’ resurrection as the first example of eternal life.
• “Don’t just get stuck on one thing about what Jesus is accomplishing. It’s multifaceted.” – Jase [31:03]
• Insight: Even expert religious leaders of the time missed this fulfillment due to hardened hearts and established narratives.
  • “They were the driving force in trying to eradicate him from the earth… That’s how off they were.” – Al [27:54]

3. The Suffering Servant and Biblical Imagery

[31:03–36:31]

• Zach brings in Isaiah 53, emphasizing Jesus as the ultimate suffering servant and “first fruits.”
  • “You realize, like, this is—he’s talking about the death of Jesus here… Jesus is giving his life up.” – Zach [33:05]
• The hosts weave together New Testament and Old Testament texts showing how Jesus embodies both judgment and redemption, bringing heaven and earth together for all people.

4. Personal Application: Heaven, Earth, and the New Creation

[36:31–44:22]

• Jase connects these themes to practical faith, highlighting that Jesus came from heaven to liberate humanity from the “bondage of decay” (Romans 8).
• “You can’t fix your problems from an earthly viewpoint. That’s why I came from heaven, to fix this.” – Jase [43:15]
• The conversation links spiritual transformation to everyday battles, encouraging listeners to see their struggles as part of a larger, redemptive story.

5. Tomorrow Clubs: Discipleship and the Next Generation

[46:46–56:52]

• Guest Segment: Paul Marty from Tomorrow Clubs joins to share about their mission of reaching 100,000 kids and teens with consistent discipleship by 2030, especially focusing on Africa.
  • “We are hoping to reach a hundred thousand kids and teens… by the year 2030.” – Paul Marty [48:33]
• The hosts affirm the importance of investing in children, noting personal experiences with camps and discipleship as life-changing.
• Addressing challenges: Paul discusses the lack of discipleship and societal neglect of children in rural communities; reaching kids young transforms communities.
  • “Reaching the kids with the gospel early and helping them learn to follow Jesus has made a tremendous difference.” – Paul Marty [51:31]
• Call to action: Listeners are encouraged to support Tomorrow Clubs at tomorrowclubs.org/unashamed.

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|---------|-------| | [03:19] | Zach | “Whatever your thing is, he’s going to times it by 10.” | | [05:48] | Jase | “There really wasn’t punches thrown. It was more of a grappling… I managed to lift him and drop him on a five-gallon bucket of flour which exploded.” | | [06:52] | Don Curly Foster (via Jase) | “Well, that was a fine way for two godly men to act.” | | [15:32] | Jase | “I would argue that it’s John’s rabbit holes of connecting the dots to Jewish history.” | | [27:54] | Al | “…They were the driving force in trying to eradicate him from the earth… That’s how off they were.” | | [31:03] | Jase | “Don’t just get stuck on one thing about what Jesus is accomplishing. It’s multifaceted.” | | [33:05] | Zach | “You realize, like, this is—he’s talking about the death of Jesus here… Jesus is giving his life up.” | | [43:15] | Jase | “You can’t fix your problems from an earthly viewpoint. That’s why I came from heaven, to fix this.” | | [48:33] | Paul Marty | “We are hoping to reach a hundred thousand kids and teens… by the year 2030.” | | [51:31] | Paul Marty | “Reaching the kids with the gospel early and helping them learn to follow Jesus has made a tremendous difference.” |

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Takeaways for Listeners

• Faith in Practice: The Robertsons share that maturity in faith leads to new approaches to conflict, informed by a deeper understanding of Jesus’ purpose and example.
• Scripture as a Connected Story: The episode models how digging into the Bible’s historical context and festivals deepens understanding of Jesus’ work and its relevance today.
• Investing in the Next Generation: Both personal stories and the Tomorrow Clubs segment highlight the importance of reaching and discipling children for long-term spiritual transformation.

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For More

• Support Tomorrow Clubs: www.tomorrowclubs.org/unashamed
• Listen to full episodes and past stories: Subscribe to Unashamed with the Robertson Family on Apple Podcasts or YouTube.

Transcript

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[Jay]

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[Al]

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[Jay]

I am unashamed.

[Zach]

What about you?

[Al]

Welcome back to Unashamed. We're back in our boxes. I'm in the Southern Lair. You can take a drink, Zach, with our Take a drink new drinking game. Yeah. From our.

[Jay]

Oh, did y' all like that from the last.

[Al]

I thought that was really good. Was it Lance?

[Zach]

Lance? Yeah, I sent him a little. I sent him an Instagram. I think he's off of Instagram right now, so. Because he didn't respond to me, but I said, hey, you need to check out whatever this. That one aired. So we'll see when he gets back.

[Al]

On Southern Lair was one of.

[Jay]

The.

[Al]

One of his buzzword. One of his drinking words.

[Jay]

Zach, you. What you got to remember is not everybody stops what they're doing when you send them a message. Well, that was a joke. I was just creating some tension before we begin.

[Zach]

All the tension's already there, Jay. It's good tens that it's healthy tension.

[Al]

Zach is a big boss. He's got a lot of people that work for him. He's used to people just snapping to attention.

[Zach]

No, I'm not used to that. I'm used to people just. Yeah.

[Al]

When you. So, yeah, go ahead.

[Zach]

Yeah, I'm a different kind of boss. You know, somebody. When Willie showed up on. On the podcast last time, one of the comments said something like, we see how Zach cowers down like a little baby when the real boss shows up.

[Jay]

Now that was a good comment. I would have. What do they call that? Thumbs up it or whatever.

[Zach]

You gave that a thumb up I'd.

[Jay]

Have given that a thumbs up or, you know, haha. That was. That's good entertainment there.

[Zach]

That's good TV right there. I don't care who you are.

[Al]

And it is funny because the way Willie is, that's one of the things people ask me. You know, they ask about everybody kind of like behind the scenes on the show. And I'm like, you know, Willie had the. Had to be the guy on the show to like try to crack the whip, get everybody to work, you know, all this stuff is it. But he's the one. He's the biggest prankster of us all and would, you know, you don't get to see that much on the old little Duck show. Jays. But he, he's. He's the one that has that personality more than all of us, you know, so he just kind of had a role to fulfill.

[Jay]

Yeah. Not that it's. His pranks are any fun. It's usually no. At the detriment of whoever the prank is on. That's why I didn't. I'm like, some pranks are not funny, they're disturbing. And most are.

[Zach]

Yeah. I don't know the statute of limitations on this, but when he was running Camp Chioka, there was a certain individual named Cliff that was always hanging around Willie because, you know, Willie always had an entourage. And they were. They got in a prank war. And I can't remember what Cliff did, but whatever it was Willie, here's problem, here's the problem with pranking Willie on the other. Whatever your thing is, he's going to times it by 10. And so he chased.

[Al]

He knows no limits. He knows.

[Zach]

I still think about this. We talk about this probably twice a year at my house. And Willie chases Cliff down. He tackles him. And I don't know why he had this on him, but he had a can, a little canister of Cheese whiz. Willie had a can of Cheese Whiz on him and he took that Cheese whiz and he put it in Cliff's ear and he. He started pouring Cheese Whiz all in his ear.

[Al]

That's dangerous.

[Zach]

That's what I said.

[Jay]

That's what I mean. Problem with that story is you're like wondering, willie had a can of cheese with on him.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Jay]

That's just standard operating procedure.

[Al]

He never left home with, why would.

[Zach]

He not have a can?

[Jay]

Yeah, he bypasses the crackers and he cocks his mouth sideways and just goes just straight in. I've seen him do it many times.

[Zach]

It's Cheese Whiz man.

[Jay]

So he might like your burgers. Zach, some cheese wheels. On it.

[Al]

Well, Jason, Willie are the only two people I've ever seen that, that literally had a fight. I mean a serious fist fight over food over who got to use the.

[Jay]

Call it a wrestling match. There really wasn't punches thrown. It was more of a grappling. I've told this story before on the podcast. If you go deep into the archives, you'll find it. But no, it wasn't about the food. It was about the timing. Who's on first, what's on second? It. I had a. I had a pizza. I mean, Willie had a pizza that he wanted to warm up. Frozen pizza. I didn't eat that kind of junk back then. But I was making some toast. I was in the process. Well, toast takes one minute.

[Al]

Cause you just brawl it.

[Jay]

Yeah, but I was making it when he came in and I had the oven on Broils. I'd already to me started the process. Well, he grabs a pizza, turns the oven on, 466 his pizza in there. I said, nope, I was here first. This would take one minute, then you. So when I went to take his pizza out, he shoved me and two minutes, two minutes later. Oh, Jace had the upper hand after I managed to lift him and then drop. Drop him on a five gallon bucket of flour which exploded and it was.

[Al]

A belly to back souffle.

[Jay]

Oh yeah, it was well done. And of course no parents are there. We were grown men. I mean he. I was, I was there 19 years old and he was 17.

[Zach]

So y' all were.

[Al]

You were.

[Zach]

You were following Jesus at this point?

[Jay]

No, we got rebuked immediately. Don Curly Foster, who was a family friend that Phil had brought to the Lord, he said, well, that was a fine way for two godly men to act. Which he was being sarcastic. So then that kind of convicted me, you know, because I thought, oh, he's right. But I don't like it. And then Willie like took off. Got. Got the keys to the only car we had took off and he's like, where's he going? I said, oh, he'll be back in a minute. You know where he runner.

[Zach]

He's a runner.

[Al]

He's a runner.

[Zach]

That's what he did when dad slapped him in the face when he gave a Grant a can of Coke. But it didn't have coke and it had Copenhagen spit and Grant took a swig of it.

[Al]

Grant was speaking of, speaking of pranks.

[Zach]

Grant was about 3, Willie was about 15, and Grant's never been the same.

[Jay]

And he probably never dipped snuff. And just like then, Willie has never shoved me again. So we have.

[Zach]

When dad slapped him, you know what he did? He took off running.

[Jay]

He's a runner.

[Zach]

He's a runner. But what's funny about it, if you hear Willie tell that story, Willie casts himself as a 4 year old child and my dad, who cast as a morbidly obese, giant, abusive uncle. It's hilarious when Willie tells the story, it's pretty funny because it's like not what happened, but it's very funny. That's very.

[Jay]

He kind of tells the story about the fight. You know, that's basically what happened. I think 20. It took him 20 years to say, yeah, you know, Jason is more scrappy than he looked. I think he was surprised that. But we were into wrestling a lot. So I was like, if I ever can get this joker and use his weight against him. So with everything I had, I lifted the beast and then I just collapsed backwards. I was trying to get him to hit the table, but during the jostling, he just came down on that, that can of flour, which. Which actually from a movie making standpoint, just had an incredible effect because when the flower loaded, it just launched into the whole living area. I mean, the place smelled like flower for a couple of years because of mom.

[Al]

Mom came in, she was livid, she was not happy.

[Jay]

So then I jumped on him and did the old carpet burns to the face, which was brutal. And I shouldn't have done that because it actually looked terrible for about a week. And I got in the most trouble just because of the way he looked. His face looked like he got in a fight with a carpet and lost.

[Al]

Next time we have him on, I've got to get him to tell his version of it because I'm sure it'll be different.

[Jay]

That was it. And I mean, I didn't. I'm not defending, you know, we should not have done that. All men shall know you by your love for one another. And we defied that in every way possible.

[Al]

Because then that was probably the last fight you ever had though, right?

[Jay]

Oh, that was. That was it. And then I. But I didn't realize at this point. We fought every day for years, but, you know, we couldn't really hurt each other because we were little kids. But when I realized that we destroyed the kitchen, I threw his pizza out in the yard after he left, you know, I ate my toast. And then I thought, yeah, we might ought to make an adjustment and in how we Handle conflict.

[Al]

But you usually remember the last one. It was like the last spanking I ever gave my girls was on Christmas Day of all days because they were, you know, fighting over what they didn't get or got. I can't remember the setting, but they remember it. But it was the last one they ever got and they still remember it. So I guess it's the same thing. Yeah. So yesterday, Lisa and I celebrated 41 years of marital bliss. And it was, it was really funny because at this, I mean, I'm 60. Lisa will be 60 in January. And we worked out and rode bikes. I thought, who would have ever thought if at 41 years that we would be in this place in life? Because she wanted, she's working on her. She calls a mama arms. She wants to try to work her upper body a little bit. So I was going. Taking her through some of the paces that I've been doing since I've lost this weight. And so we worked out on our 41st anniversary. So. Zach, there's always hope.

[Zach]

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[Jay]

Yeah, well, you reach a certain point where it's just if you want to maintain your lifestyle, some sort of physical ability. Because look, my last four days have been a blur. We've had Little man, which means I'm getting up at 6 o' clock despite still going to bed because I'm studying after he goes to bed. And I had about a lot of speaking engagements in between. They were all local, but it was just great. I mean, I think the most fantastic thing I did was three or four days ago I spoke at an FCA meeting before school at a junior high. I wish I had taken a picture because when I left I thought, why didn't I just turn around and like, do a selfie so I could have shared that with you. I would say there was 250 to 300 junior high age at 7 o' clock in the morning in our hometown. I didn't even know that many people went to that school or we had that many. But there I think it was half the school. So. Yeah, but I thought, now I realize they can't drive, so they were dropped off.

[Al]

But still they still have to choose to come.

[Jay]

Yeah, and they still had to choose to listen because they usually, they usually say, look, here's what the guy who introduced me said. He's like, usually the speaker speaks 10 minutes. I mean, this is junior high and it is seven o'clock in the morning. But I've heard your podcast. So we're going to give you the full allotment of our time for this gathering before school, which was 22 minutes. So I took 21 and a half minute. But I was, I was shocked at how well they listened. You know, I mean, they were typical junior high. They didn't laugh at my jokes, which I knew they weren't because I taught junior high at our local church for 12 years. So, yeah, it was, it was fantastic.

[Al]

That's pretty awesome, Jay. Well, y' all ready to get into John?

[Zach]

Let's get into John.

[Al]

We're. We're in John 19. For those of you that have been following along, it's. We kind of taken our time through the Book of John because we're trying to get this higher view, I guess is the way of looking at it. And, and you know, you. Because we're in the narrative of Jesus crucifixion. And so just rather than just read it, we've kind of been doing Jace's rabbit holes as we go along this process to be able to really see the significance of this because this is, this is the heart of the story of Jesus and what he did for us.

[Jay]

I would argue that it's John's rabbit holes of connecting the dots to Jewish history. And we're just for the first time kind of approaching the book that way. I mean some of my study time was trying to kind of figure out because we're right here at Jesus fixing to die. And you know, he predicted that he would die, be buried and be raised in three days. Well, if you go look up these scholarly views of all that, you will find so much disagreement over why he said three days, when if you look at all the accounts, doesn't seem like three days. I mean, because you got Friday, he dies, Sunday he's risen. So technically we're thinking about our three 24 hour time periods. Right. And if you try to make all that fit, you're going to be very frustrated.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Jay]

So now I think I've, you know, got a few things figured out on that which at some point we can get into. But to my point, I think what you have in mind is what Jesus is fulfilling during these three days from the Old Testament and the Jewish history. Because there's a reason he's giving you the timeline as we go along. Because Al, when we get to John 20, the first verse says on the first day of the week. Early on the first day of the week.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Jay]

So you know that he's given some reference for a reason there. Right. What's the implications? Which in my mind I'm like, oh, we have a new creation being launched here. Death. Death has now been dealt with.

[Al]

Well and even the events that we're going to read about today, they, everything was geared towards the Sabbath and you know, that was why they broke their legs. The, the two guys with him. And they didn't break his because he was already dead. I mean there was a lot of implications and prophecies that were fulfilled in the way it went down. So there was, the timing of it was important.

[Jay]

Well, let me just give you that since we've, we're. I guess I brought this up and then you echoed that. But yeah, he seems to be purposefully mentioning this is Passover week. And in my attempt to look at all these, you know, with the three days being buried, three days, what I found was, is a fulfillment from. I wrote this down somewhere, Leviticus 23. And I really believe these three festivals that seem to intertwine at Jesus's deathbell and resurrection that are mentioned in Leviticus 23 is quite interesting. I mean, y' all probably know where I'm going with this, or maybe. No.

[Al]

Yeah, and. Well, I know where you're going. And there's a couple of more that. Because I wrote one down. I didn't write it down. I think Exodus 34 was another one where there was some significance to some of the Old Testament timing that timed into what, exactly what he was doing.

[Jay]

So. So the Jewish tradition, they would have the Passover celebration, and when Jesus died, this was like, not only was it just a Sabbath, but it was like the annual Sabbath festival. And then after that. So the day after the Sabbath, you had the Passover and the unleavened bread. I'm not sure what that was called. The Feast of the Unleavened Bread. First of the unleavened bread. First the feast of the unleavened bread. And then you had the waving of the first fruits. And so you see this in Leviticus 23, and you're like, how interesting is this going to be? It's really going to be quite interesting because when you just read it in Leviticus 23, verse 3, it says, There are six days when you may work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, a day of sacred assembly. You are not to do any work, whether you live. It is a Sabbath to the Lord. So before I continue reading, I'll just echo that. What I said about this, this goes back to when God created the earth. So you remember, he made man on the sixth day. And that's why it's significant where when Pilate said, here's the man. Well, this is the sixth day of the. Of the week when this is happening. Isn't that fascinating?

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Jay]

I mean, do you think he's not doing this on purpose? So when you. When you read Genesis 2, after he makes man, it says, verse 1. Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array. By the seventh day, God had finished the work he had been doing. So on the seventh day, he rested from all his work. And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy. So he set it apart, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

[Al]

So.

[Jay]

So there's that, because then you have the sabbath. And then 23 of Leviticus in verse four gets to the unleavened bread. These are the Lord's appointed feasts, the sacred assemblies you ought to proclaim at their appointed times. The Lord's passover begins at Twilight on the 14th day of the first month. So that's kind of the way they did their days. So like they would, you know, from sunset to sun up. So technically like on the Sabbath they would start at sunset Friday and to sun up Saturday, right?

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Jay]

So then it says verse 5, the Lord's Passover begins at twilight on the 14th day of the month. On the 15th day of the month, the Lord's feast of unleavened bread begins. Well, just think about all the times Jesus used this as an analogy.

[Al]

Yeah, Bread of life.

[Jay]

John chapter six. Well, it makes perfect sense when you think about when he said, I am the bread of life.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Jay]

And so then that's for seven days you must eat bread made without yeast and which is goes back to the passover because they had to leave in such a hurry. It's like you don't have time to put leaven in the bread. And then it kind of represents sin, just a little sin in the camp and it spreads. And this, this kind of thinking.

[Al]

One of the things I always say is that the creator of the cosm cosmos chose to come to earth. He could have come any way he wanted to, but he chose to come through the womb of a young woman named Mary. And from her perspective, it was an unplanned pregnancy because she certainly wasn't planning on having a baby. Today, countless mothers face that same moment of decision when they see their baby on an ultrasound. They're scared, they're unsure, and their moment to say yes could pass. But you can make a difference right now to help them say yes. Because of the generosity of listeners like you, Preborn Network clinics can provide immediate support. Maternity clothes, diapers, counseling. So much more. Helping thousands of mothers embrace life. Over 380,000 babies have been rescued through pre born. Yet there are still thousands more denied the chance to live every single day this holiday season. Don't let another life be lost. Be the hope for hurting mothers and at risk babies. Just say yes to life. Today there are babies in their mother's womb who need our help right now. As the year comes to a close, your tax deductible donation can be the difference between life and death. Would you consider a leadership gift to save babies in a big way? Your gift of 5, 10 or 15,000 could be used to save countless babies for years to come. To donate, dial £250. Say the keyword baby. That's £250 baby. Or you can donate [e-mail] unashamed. That's preborn.

[Jay]

So verse seven, on the first day, hold a sacred assembly and. And do no regular work for seven days. Present an offering made to the Lord by fire, and on the seventh day, hold a sacred assembly and do not do no regular work. Well, then in Leviticus 23, it goes to the first fruits. The Lord said to Moses, speak to the Israelites and say to them, when you enter the land, I'm going to give you, and you reap its harvest. And bring to the priest a sheaf of the first grain you harvest. He is to wave the sheaf before the Lord so it will be accepted on your behalf. The priest is to wave it on the day after the Sabbath. So you see those three days, I just gave them to you. That's more the point in what Jesus is fulfilling. He becomes the rest. Just think about the verse, come to me, all you who are weak and heavy laden. Yeah. Weary and heavy laden, and I will give you rest. You think about the Hebrews chapter three and Hebrews chapter four. You know, this rest that Jesus provided, and he calls it today, which is interesting, because it's like every day you rest in Christ because of the righteousness he provided through his death on a cross and the sacrifice. So that's basically it. And then. So you say, well, what's the significance of the first fruits on the third day? Well, that's why Paul in First Corinthians 15 made this statement. Just think about how this makes more sense now. First Corinthians 15 says 22. For as an Adam, all die, so in Christ, all will be made alive, but each in his own turn. Christ, the first fruits. Well, you see how that's.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Jay]

Being played here through the story of Israel, through the Exodus, the new Exodus. I mean, I think it's just fascinating.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Jay]

And it makes you realize that the. That the whole Bible, what we're calling rabbit holes, is a story within history where ultimately God became a human from the nation of Israel. But Gentiles would be grafted in because the things he dealt with are prevalent to all humans. Sin, death, the evil powers that are against humans. So that was kind of my take on the three days.

[Al]

No, I think that's good, Jay. And what's amazing about it is that. And we've said this all through this study is the. These. These people that were insisting that he'd be crucified were experts in the Scripture and studying and. And knowing the Torah and knowing the Book, and they should have seen all that. I mean, like, this is all happening. It's all fulfillment. It's exactly as it should have been. But it shows you when you're blinded, you know, by a narrative that. That you're just so convinced this. That this guy's a charlatan, that they missed the entire thing. I mean, what you just said, everyone in that day should have known and seen, because it was very clear.

[Jay]

Yeah.

[Al]

As to how it was supposed to happen. But they didn't. I mean, they. They. Not only did they miss it, but they were the driving force in trying to eradicate him from the earth. I mean, that's how. That's how off they were.

[Jay]

Well, I bring this up because I think what we tend to do when we get to this part of God's story is we just focus, like here in America on, well, he died for our sins. But I just showed you the three fulfillments, which is really the only way to make sense of, like when he. When he gave that illustration about Jonah, because he says he tells the story of Jonah where he swallowed the fish for three days, but then he. Then he appeals it to what he's going to do. He prophesies it.

[Al]

Right.

[Jay]

Because this is the verse that causes people problems. Because he said, so the Son of Man will be dead three days and three nights. He actually uses that phrase. And so people, when they do the math, they're like, well, wait a minute, it was three days. But to say three days and three nights, it doesn't seem to fit if you read all the accounts.

[Al]

Right.

[Jay]

And so I think the. The more important point of what they're saying is, is the multifacetets of what he's accomplishing through his death, as in fulfillment to what happened in Exodus with the Passover and what all this means and how it relates to humanity.

[Al]

So.

[Jay]

Because I just went through those three things. Well, not only did he die for our sins, but he also liberated us from the powers that hold us captive, which is. That is Pharaoh and the nation. And not only did he do that, but he's also becoming the first fruits from the dead, which is not the only place in 1 Corinthians 15 that also says that in Colossians 1. And there's. There's other places which was a. It was the fulfillment of that. Oh, given the fruits. Because from the earthly fruits. Well, God was providing that also, you know, think of all the verses, it says, does he not give rain? And the crops come up? And there's so much in the Bible about fruits. And I mean, this is all coming from God also in a physical way, which to me, what makes this all exciting is when you get to something like Romans 8, and then you're seeing that not only are we liberated from our bondage decay, because we have the spirit. If the spirit is living in you, the one that raised Jesus from the dead, which is Romans 8:11, it will give life to your mortal body, but then he goes to the whole creation, the earth itself, later on in Romans 8. So it's just fantastic. Which is where you get this idea of a new heaven and a new earth, a new creation. So that's why I was just wanting to point this out. Don't just get stuck on one thing about what Jesus is accomplishing. It's multifaceted is the way I would put it.

[Zach]

Did you mention. Did you mention Isaiah 53?

[Jay]

I did not.

[Zach]

I think it's an interesting thing too, connecting it with the fruit, because that's obviously Jesus is the suffering servant in Isaiah 53. And it's when Pilate, like you realize, I have the authority to kill you. And Jesus, like you, have no authority except what's been given to you by my heavenly Father. Which I think is a nod back to Isaiah 53, which is. I was going to say that earlier, but then you were mentioning the fruit and Jesus being the first fruit. Listen to the language in Isaiah 53, this prophecy. Who has believed what he has heard from us, and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed? For he grew up before us like a young plant and like a root out of dry ground. You get to picture even in this, even in the suffering servant of a plant that's emerging. And that fruit's going to come from whatever this suffering servant is, whoever he is. He had no form or majesty that we should look at him, and no beauty that we should desire him. He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. And as one from whom men hid their faces, he was despised and we esteemed him not. And then he just goes on and on. And you start to. As you read through this, you realize, like, this is like he's talking about the death of Jesus here and what's going to happen to Jesus in that verse 10, going back to who really had the authority and the sacrifice that Jesus made, Jesus is giving his life up. And the point is, verse 10 says it was the will of the Lord to crush him. So when Pilate's like, do you realize I have the authority to crush you? Jesus is saying, actually it was the will of the Lord to crush him, and he has put him to grief when his soul makes an Offering for guilt. He shall see his offspring and shall prolong his days. The will of the Lord shall prosper in his hand. And so Jesus is that suffering servant. In Isaiah 53, he is now in the act of actually being the suffering servant. And the imagery there in Isaiah 53 starts with the imagery of a plant that grows and sprouts and produces fruit. And it's the first of its kind. Obviously, no one in every day. It's the new Adam, it's the new Exodus, it's all of it in Jesus.

[Al]

Well, and it's a good point, because ultimately then that passes on to us as fruit bearers when we're renewed, even on earth. I mean, before the resurrection, which is. Which is a crucial thing for us as well. So you're right. That imagery is all over the place. And you look back at those Old Testament verses where he's called the root, the branch. Yeah. All those different things as well. So that's. And then we have.

[Zach]

And then we abide in him.

[Al]

What.

[Zach]

I was curious. Al. What were you. You had mentioned Exodus 34. So how was. What was your.

[Al]

Well, actually. Actually, I went back and looked at that. I was. I was doing some.

[Jay]

It's.

[Al]

It is in this text. I was looking into the myrrh, you know, this. You know, the thing that was mixed with his wine that they tried to give him to drink. And that took me back to this altar of incense. So it was a different point than I thought it was. But it is amazing how that is all over the place, too. The deeper I went. I went into a Jay's rabbit on that, because I was looking at the birth of Jesus, like the gifts, you know, they were brought by the Magi. And this myrrh was all over the place. And I. I still haven't qu. What it means because I'm still working on the. The. The background of that particular thing. But it was also present at his death. And. And you see it first brought up in Exodus. It was. It was part of the incense that went on. So I haven't. I haven't come to my conclusion yet, but I. But I will. But it was interesting that so many of these, like, little bitty details that John brings in, as Jay said, they're. They're crucial because these were tipping points to what should have been recognized but wasn't. Yeah. And. And they didn't really recognize that, I don't think, till later.

[Zach]

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[Jay]

Well, Exodus 23 is. Echoes what I read in Leviticus. Is it 23 also? Yeah, yeah. Exodus 23. So it's there if you go there. Yeah. He has the Sabbath laws in verse 10. For six years you are to sow your fields and harvest the crops. Which. Same, same idea. But during the Sabbath year, let the land lie unplowed and unused. Then the poor among you, your people, may get food from it. And then look, the next paragraph. The three annual festivals, verse 14. The three. Three times a year you are to celebrate a festival to me. Celebrate the feast of the unleavened Bread for seven days, eat bread made without yeast, as I commanded you. So, I mean, you get the idea, the same concept. But what kind of hit me is I went back and read John 6, and if you. Especially since he said, here's the man. If you kind of go back to where we've been, because I keep getting asked questions from. From people about this who are having. They have a different view of this narrative for whatever reason. And. But I keep going back to what we've already studied and what I noticed in John 6. I mean, this is quite fascinating because it echoes John 3 when he says, and it's kind of an idea, which is another facet of what Jesus is accomplishing, which is bringing heaven and earth back together. And maybe we didn't make this point as good as we should have. But if you go back to chapter six in verse 31, of course, he's speaking about, what is the work. This is in response to a question of verse 28. They asked him, what must we do to do the work God requires? And Jesus said, well, the work of God is to believe in the one he sent. Yeah, I'm sure that was a mic drop moment. Like what? But when he gets to 31, he explains that, which is echoing my point here about why he chose the Passover and then fulfills also the unleavened bread festival and also the first fruits. He says in 31, our forefathers ate the manna in the desert. As it is written, he gave them bread. And here's the key phrase to understand all this. From heaven. This is coming from heaven. You're trapped on earth. To get back to my Romans 8 passage, you know, the earth is in a bondage of decay, and so are the people. That's why it says in Romans, as in, you know, when Adam sinned, he in a way brought death to all men. We're trapped in this decay. So watch what he says. So from he's from heaven. And then it says, Verse 32, I tell you the truth, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world. So you see, it's from heaven coming to the earth to fulfill this problem. So they said, from now on, give us this bread. And he's like, I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry. He who believes in me will never be thirsty. But as I told you, you have seen me and still don't believe. All that the Father gives me will come to Me. And whoever comes to me, I will never drive away, for I have. And here's this phrase again, come down from heaven, which he says it over and over. Verse 41, I am the bread that come down from heaven. They're like, how can you say verse 42, that you came down from heaven? And so back to what I'm reading. In John 6:39, it says, and this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of them that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life. Well, that's the liberation from the bondage of decay. And so, just to piggyback that to John 3, so you remember the conversation he had with Nicodemus. Here's the Jewish leader. He sees the signs and he's like, I mean, the only way you could do that is if you were from God. And then Jesus has that famous line, you can't see the kingdom of God unless you're born again. And he's like, well, how can I be born again? And he said, I tell you the truth, unless he's born of water and spirit. Then he makes this statement that's very controversial in the religious world because people have different takes on it. But it's like, flesh gives birth to flesh, but the spirit gives birth to spirit. Well, then he clarifies that with this same idea in John 6 when he gets down to in John 3, where he says, Verse 12, I have spoken to you of earthly things, and you do not believe. How then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? It's the same narrative. So the flesh gives birth to flesh. Man was made from the dust. You're claiming that you're right with God because you're from the nation of Israel, God's chosen people. But it's an earthly. You have an earthly existence. I'm speaking to you of heavenly things. So then verse 13 says, no one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven, the Son of man. Why is he saying this? So I think you can only figure it out when you read that verse that we read a couple podcasts ago about First Corinthians 15. Here is the point. The point he's making is First Corinthians 15:47. After reading John 3 and John 6. The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man came from heaven. It's the same identical narrative in John 3 and John 6 about, you can't fix your problems from an earthly viewpoint. That's why I came from heaven, to fix this. It's not about eating this bread. You know, in John 6, they were just. He said, you're not even coming for the signs. You're coming because you like that bread and fish.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Jay]

But he's like, you got your fill. Well, exactly. But you refused to come to me. So back to First Corinthians 15, verse 48. As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth. Well, what's going to happen? You're going to die. The context, First Corinthians 15 is the resurrection. Yeah. And as is the man from heaven, so also are those are of heaven. And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man. So, and we did that take on that. So shall we wear the likeness of the man from heave heaven. I mean, it's over and over. But if you don't apply that heaven and earth contrast, then we get off on all these sorts of doctrines on what flesh giving birth to flesh actually means. And you know, we're debating on what we need to do to respond to Jesus in this text. That was not his point. His point was I came from heaven and I'm here on earth. You need to listen to me. I'm sent from God. I got this. I'm going to make all this make sense and ultimately destroy sin, death, and the powers that contribute to those two things.

[Al]

Now that's really good, Jason. We, we're going to take a break and we come back. On the other side of the break, one of our partners for our podcast is this story of Jesus. Their whole mission is to share that with kids around the world. So we're going to, we're going to have a conversation about that when we come back from the break. So, J, tell our audience what happens when it's when your little dogs line up and it's time to eat.

[Jay]

I witnessed it this morning. I got out the bag of rough green Little Beatty started shaking and yeah, they were excited.

[Al]

It's excitement, right? And my dogs do the same thing. And one of the things I've noticed about in my dogs is that their coats have been shinier, they seem to be healthier, seem to be much better reactive since we started the rough greens. And we've all seen it, right? The tough moments when your pet is sick, you go to the vet, the bills are starting to stack up. You can't figure out what's going on. You got to come back and forth. It's always something. It could be itchy skin, stiff joints, upset stomachs, ear infections, all kinds of things that affect your pets. Most of these issues start in the same place. A worn down immune system from years of processed food. And that's why our good friend Dr. Dennis Black set out to fix this problem when he created rough Greens. It's packed with real live nutrients that help your dog feel better from the inside out. And it's no wonder that they call it America's number one dog supplement. Thousands of pet owners are finally breaking the vet visit cycle and seeing the difference for themselves. You can be one of those people as well. Right now. You can try it for yourself with a free Jumpstart trial bag. You just cover the shipping because the best doctor visit is the one you never make. Go to roughgreens.com use the promo code Unashamed to break the cycle today. That's R u f f greens.com promo code unashamed. So welcome back to Unashamed. We have one of our sponsoring partners, which we have amazing sponsors. Would you agree, Zach? I mean, we have some folks that I think since kind of we went out on our own, we're able to really partner with people that kind of have the same heart we do.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Al]

In terms of the gospel. And. And Paul. Marty is one of those guys from Tomorrow. Close. Welcome, Paul, back to the podcast.

[Paul Marty]

Oh, great to be with you guys. Thanks for having me.

[Zach]

If you're watching, by the way, I got. I did. Had to put a coat on Paul. You didn't. But, yeah, I feel bad because you're from Minnesota. And he was. I said, it's so cold here. And he was like, well, how cold is it?

[Jay]

I said, about.

[Zach]

About 25 or 30. He said, it gets 30 below or where he's from. So he, he didn't have a lot of compassion for me.

[Al]

No, no, Zach, it's. Yeah. I was like, hold my popsicle and watch. Yeah, exactly. Speechless.

[Jay]

Because he doesn't want to state the obvious. That Zach now looks like he needs a hug. Yeah. He just.

[Al]

He's got his park on.

[Jay]

Yeah. Parker, I would never do that, even in public because people would say for.

[Al]

A sec, sitting there in front of a nice roaring fire behind him, you know, if you're watching, you see that. So. So, Paul, tell us, tell us a little bit about what you guys are into at Tomorrow Clubs. You. You guys have been sponsors for a while on the podcast. We love what you're doing. Obviously, we have a heart and a love for Africa. I've been there several times to different countries. It's, you know, but. But you guys are all over the world. But tell us a little bit about kind of what's. What's going on right now with Tomorrow Club.

[Paul Marty]

Where to start with that? I guess maybe I'll. I'll start with our. We have a 2030 vision, which is something new. We are hoping to reach a hundred thousand kids and teens, having them be a regular part of Tomorrow Club meetings every week by the year 2030. So that's 100,000 for you guys. 100,000 kids.

[Jay]

Yeah.

[Paul Marty]

Yeah. So that's our new vision. We're excited about that. And most of the growth we feel is going to happen in the continent of Africa because it's so ripe for growth. It's just amazing that, I mean, there's so many things about that that make it a tremendous opportunity. In fact, the Barnard research predicted that by the year 2050, a third of the children in the world are going to be in Africa. And just in global Christianity in general, so much of that has moved to the South. By the south, I don't mean Louisiana, I mean the Southern Hemisphere. In fact, about 66 out of 100 Christians are now in Africa, Asia and Latin America. So, yeah, so we think that's where Christianity is headed and we want to reach the young people there with the gospel.

[Zach]

Yeah. One of the things that really drew us to you guys is that, and we talk about this on the podcast a lot too, is it's not, you know, we talk a lot about salvation and what we're saved from, but so often we don't emphasize enough who we're saved to. And we're actually saved to a life in Christ. And to really experience that it is a, it's kind of a longer term play. It's like we're looking. What does real discipleship look like? And what it really looks like is a long obedience in the same direction as I think Eugene Peterson said that earlier, or Nietzsche or somebody. But it's true. It's a long obedience in the same direction. And that's what we love about you guys, because you're not just trying to get people to an altar call, you're actually walking with these people for years. And some of my favorite stories that I've heard out of the Tomorrow Clubs is that those ones where you have somebody comes in from off the streets and they come in maybe for a soccer game, they end up developing relationship with, with the leaders in that Tomorrow Club and then those kids end up finding a relationship with Christ and then they end up leading a Tomorrow Club. So that's pretty common for you guys, correct? I mean, you guys are kind of seeing that turnover quite a bit.

[Paul Marty]

Oh yeah. That's one of the awesome things about it, I think there's so many of our current leaders started out as Tomorrow Club members and you know, grew and grew in over the years and their relationship with Christ and are now leading others, other young people to, to God or they're involved in discipling others.

[Al]

Have you experienced persecution or some of the, the places you've been in, in Africa? Because Jace, we were talking about, was it Nigeria? Yeah, there was.

[Jay]

I was wondering that too, because I think now when you hear the word Africa, because this, there's this onslaught going against Christians now. So I was just wondering, you know, your take on that or how are y' all being mindful of that?

[Paul Marty]

Yeah, you know, in. In Africa that we work. We work in Zimbabwe and South Africa, but, you know, both of those are. They're Christian nations, and I know, like, countries like Nigeria. Even though, you know, there's. There's so much. There's so much growth in Christianity, there's also so much persecution. But I think what we. What we face in the places that we work is more just. Well, basically just a lack of discipleship. I think, you know, they're. They're Christian nations, but they're. They're really just not reaching the kids. There's typically. Typically, there's. There is a church in most of the places that we work, and we work in really remote communities. I mean, a lot of. Most. For some reason, God's called us to. To work in. In places where other people aren't serving. So what we've, you know, what we basically are facing is just kind of just that. That lack of discipleship. And in these communities, too, I mean, there's. There's all kinds of problems. I think of in Zimbabwe, a lot of the communities that we work in, and these are rural communities where life is really tough. But one of their biggest issues is teen pregnancies and early marriage. And it's just amazing. Reaching the kids with the gospel early and helping them learn to follow Jesus has made a tremendous difference in the communities. In fact, one of. There was a pastor I talked with in one of our last trips who. Who said, and I just. I love this because it just sums it up. He says, you know, as a church, sometimes you neglect children. You don't give them much time. But the vision you've brought has changed our mindset. We're concentrating more on children, and we realize it's going to change our community.

[Jay]

So.

[Paul Marty]

And I think that's, you know, that's just typical of what we see in the communities that we're working, that, you know, the churches just aren't mindful of how powerful learning to follow Jesus at an early age is and how much it can really change the course of their community.

[Al]

Well, and it kind of goes along with, I know my forays into Africa. There's kind of a mindset there of survival of the fittest. And it's almost like children don't even get recognized much until you've kind of made it through those early years. And so I don't know if that's part of it. Why that neglect is there that you're describing that you wouldn't pour into that. I know that. I noticed the same thing, that it tends to be adult oriented when, as we know from our experiences with camps. I mean, Zach and Jason and I have tremendous experience with our own camp experiences as young people and how powerful that was. I mean, to get that seed planted in a young age. And even if you wander from the truth, as I did for a few years, you know, the way back, you know, because it was planted in you. Do you guys see that in Africa as well?

[Paul Marty]

Oh, yeah, absolutely true. I mean it's, it's really, you know, just be seen and not heard. It's, you know, as far as their, their attitude towards children, very adult oriented and you know, we're trying to change that and, and it's, it's working.

[Jay]

It reminds me of our childhood. You know, our parents moved out in the middle of nowhere because they had come to Jesus. But then, and the sound of that was great, but in order to make a living. When I look back on being kids, they weren't around much because we were just scraping together. And so I think you've times that times 100. And you got some of the communities you're going where they're just so focused on survival that the kids get lost in the shuffle.

[Paul Marty]

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

[Al]

We're super excited to be partners with Tomorrow Clubs. We love what you're doing for us to help us get the gospel out through the podcast. But also we're excited that Unashamed Nation gets to be a part of what you're doing. So 2030, that, that vision, we're a part of that.

[Zach]

Hey Paul, why don't you give us a place we can send people that want to be a part of this. I would encourage everybody to give. We'll also put the link in the show notes as well. So you guys can, can click on the link that Paul's going to give us. But this, this will be a place where we all can go and give to the ministry here. And yeah, we want to see this happen. We want to see 100,000 children reach for Christ by 2030 in the continent. A lot of this going to be in the continent of Africa, but all over the world. So I want you to partner with us, Paul. Where can we send people to?

[Paul Marty]

Yeah, you can send people to tomorrowclubs.org unashamed. So that's tomorrow Clubs.

[Zach]

And we love the fact that you guys, you guys are very efficient in what you do. I like to say you throw nickels around like manhole covers, you're not wasting a lot of money. You guys are very lean. I mean, the money that people give is going straight to these kids, and it doesn't take a lot either. So we really pray that you'll be successful, mainly because we want to see these kids come to know Jesus. So thank you for being a part of the Unashamed family and and we're just thankful to have you on this this afternoon.

[Paul Marty]

Oh, well, I'm so thankful to be here. Thank you guys for what you do. You're awesome.

[Al]

Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.