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Unashamed with the Robertson Family
Ep 1217 | Missy & Brighton Open Up About the Moments They Felt Abandoned by God
00:57:53
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- [00:00]
A
So no matter how you slice it, we're definitely in a divided time in our country. There's. There's no way around it. We see it every single day and watch the news. And so I think in this time of division, we have to have consistency that speaking into the values that we believe in. One of our good friends, Tony Perkins, heads up an organization called Family Research Council. As Louisiana guy is a pastor, he has our heart for Jesus. He even did a blurb in dad's book, Theft of America's Soul. And it's just been there for us as a family, but also as a nation. So FRC is standing for what's right. They defend faith. They protect families. They remind leaders that biblical truth still matters. So when others compromise, our friends at FRC stand firm. Because if we lose our foundation, we lose the soul of our nation. Unashamed Nation. You guys can help out FRC by defending what matters most by visiting FRC.org unashamed to learn more. Check them out.
- [01:07]
B
I am unashamed. What about you?
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A
Welcome back to Unashamed. I call this Jay's upgrade 2.0.
- [01:19]
B
This is awesome.
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A
Not only have we maintained Missy from the last episode, Zach is still gone. So we're, we're happy about that for, you know, for our anti Zach people.
- [01:31]
B
For you who listened to that episode, we're now nicknaming him one eyed.
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A
One eyed Zach because of his family photo pic in the wedding. But we have upgraded 2.0 to Brighton. Brighton, welcome back to Unashamed.
- [01:46]
C
Yeah, thank you for having me.
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A
So you're now a contributor.
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D
Is.
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A
Yeah, you're now a contributor to Unashamed People loved your episode you guys did in Nashville. Missy, you said it was fantastic.
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D
Fantastic. Fantastic. I didn't cry at any time while she was on it, but as soon as I quit listening to it and it was over, I shed a few tears. It was amazing, Brighton, it was amazing.
- [02:09]
C
Thank you. That's so nice.
- [02:11]
A
Well, what I loved about it, Brighton, was that one of the things that a lot of people said about you on the last episode, the time you were on, was how vulnerable you were to. To just tell about your life and yours and Reid's marriage and early life and just, you know, what the podcast admit to you. So it was really good. So we've been wanting to have you back on just to do a normal podcast and so we're excited to have you on today.
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C
Yeah, thank you. I didn't know that I'd been named a regular contributor now.
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A
That's right.
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B
Well, this is your third time, so I think, yeah, you're, you're, you're, you're official now. And this all started off from us coming kind of becoming Bible study buddies, which I do a lot of discipleship stuff with young men. And Missy had talked about this mentoring, but I never knew that I was going to kind of have that relationship with my daughter in law. But it's been very special to me because you ask great questions and, and come up with some great biblical thoughts on your own, which is very impressive.
- [03:12]
C
Yeah, thank you. I mean, you've been super helpful in my study.
- [03:15]
A
Well, and I love the idea that we're represented here by generational fai and that's important. I want to give a shout out to our friends at Family Research Council. We talk about them quite a bit because their whole idea is that the country was founded on the idea of generational faith. I mean, we were founded on Christian, Judeo, Christian principles. And that carries forward and that takes effort. And these guys are in D.C. they're making the effort for us. They defend biblical truth, they defend religious liberty. And they're there to try to make sure families understand that we do this going forward. And we love these guys for that. Their motto is Pray, vote, stand. And so we stand with them. If you want to help FRC keep defending what matters most, visit FRC.org unashamed to learn more. So, Bryant, we had talked about at the end of our last podcast, Missy told about the importance of mentoring and how she's began this process of. Well, you had three different, had three.
- [04:14]
D
Three, four different weekends actually. So of women your age.
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A
And so I would love to know your perspective on that. How, how do you mind telling us how old you are? You're not supposed to ask a woman how old as she is, but do you mind telling us?
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C
No, I don't mind. I'm 29.
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A
29. So Missy had said 22 to 32 is kind of her age range for that. But what, what do you, what would you add to that on being in that age range? The importance of finding or, you know, being willing to be mentored. How important do you think that is?
- [04:47]
C
Oh, man, I think it's so important even because like as a mom of three and being pregnant, it's so easy to just kind of get in the weeds of like daily tasks that I'm having to do in like making sure I'm stewarding the kids well and being a good wife. And I think it can be hard to just kind of lose focus of like where am I? Like what direction am I heading? And I even went to a baby shower this weekend and there was some older women there. And one of them, I just said how I was feeling kind of overwhelmed lately. And she just started like pouring out wisdom without even like thinking too much about it, it seemed like. So I think it's so important just to like have that little boost of encouragement and take a step back through like a mentor sharing with you, to kind of see like what direction you're heading here. Like that you, you have kingdom goals, I guess.
- [05:43]
A
Yeah. Because we talk a lot about the importance of community and peers and that's, that is important to have people you're sharing life with. All of us. We kind of did that together when we first started doing ministry because we're not that, you know, we're four years apart. And Jason, I have been to school together. And so we, those first, what, probably seven or eight years, we were doing house church together, raising our families every day. Every day we were doing something in ministry. But it is, and you mentioned this, that it's so important to not just have your peers to rely on, but then you need some wisdom coming in from people that have lived it a while. Right. And they've done some things like in Christ that can then add that on to you.
- [06:22]
D
So no doubt about that. I think about. I was even asked this last weekend, did I have a specific time during the day that I would devote myself to quiet time with the Lord when my kids were little? I said no, I did not. Because our school was 30 minutes away. We had to get up at 6:30 in the morning, get the kids up at 6:30 in the Morning. It's just, it was just that when you, when you said, I'm feeling overwhelmed with three and you're pregnant. Those days are just, I remember every 60 second increment mattered, like getting them in the car, getting them strapped in, getting them to the school. Those were such hectic days. And I remember feeling kind of a weight of guilt that I was spending enough quiet time with the Lord. And one of my mentors during a class time at church said, it's so difficult when you are raising littles, but when you have that baby on the changing table and you are wiping that little honey, you can have some quiet time with the Lord right then in that 30 seconds to 60 seconds, just thanking him for this child, asking him for wisdom in raising this child. He doesn't require large sets of times that you don't have. He just requires, requires an ongoing relationship, because that's what he wants from you. And so I thought that was really good wisdom when I was feeling so overwhelmed as well. And I passed that on to others.
- [07:47]
A
Now, Brighton, I'm assuming that. Who's taking care of your kids and dogs right now while you're on the podcast? I'm curious.
- [07:54]
C
Reed's downstairs taking care of him.
- [07:58]
A
I kind of knew that audience because I saw him earlier in the room. He's also our tech guy, too, so he was setting up for him. So. So speak to that, Brighton, before we. We're going to get into some text in one of the most incredible, amazing sections of Scripture, which is in John 19 and then later in 20, when our Lord and Savior was crucified for our sins, which is so important. But I want you to speak to the idea, especially to a lot of young moms and dads out there, as to what you do, practically, because you listen to our podcast. You're obviously. And you don't just listen. I mean, you're active, because I've seen your notes. You're right there with us. You're studying. So how do you. How do you manage that with having a family? Because a lot of people say, well, it just can't be done. I just got too much going on. There's no way I can do kind of what Missy just described. How do you do it? What's a practical way? Do you get up earlier? Do you. How do you manage that? To be able to still have Bible study and be in depth and to listen and yet still raise your kids and do what you do and be there for your husband as well? How do you do that?
- [09:02]
C
Yeah, totally. I mean, it's definitely not perfect. And I will say that I used to be that person that was like, there's just no time for me to do it. But then if there's not any time, when am I ever gonna start doing it? And I think it was, like, kind of intimidating to start because I had never really studied the Bible. And so listening to the podcast helped me just kind of get a jump start and, like, have a place to start. Otherwise, I'm opening the Bible. And, like, I don't really. Like, I understand it, like, for what it is, plainly reading it, but, like, I'm not getting any of the depth from it. And so I just had to start. And I think I mentioned this whenever I was on last time. I had to start when Reed was out of town because I was like, I feel like I am just spiritually starved and physically, like, in all areas. Like, I just feel like I'm failing and so not that that looks perfect. Now I will say, especially since being pregnant, I've slacked a lot. But I do notice in my attitude and I feel like, especially how I am as a wife, like mostly in the category of wife, do I see when I'm not in my Bible, because it's easy to like give everything you have to your kids and kind of then just like leave the scraps for your husband like when he gets home at the end of the day. But I am not good at waking up early since being pregnant, I feel like I just need the full time that I'm sleeping. So I usually take the time when my kids are napping to study.
- [10:41]
D
Can I just add to that? Because I'm going to brag on Brighton for a second because she is such a good mom. She's so intentional that she puts her kids down 3, 2 and 1 at 12:30 in the afternoon and they sleep until 4 and then they go to bed. Fran goes to bed at what, 6:45 at night and sleeps till 7 in the morning. And same with, with Maris and David. And so she's, that's not just, oh, you got lucky. She trained them to do that. And so I remember when she did Maris the first time when Maris was sleeping that afternoon and Jay said, wow, that's really amazing that she's doing that. And Brighton said, it's really amazing for me because I feel like I'm a better mom if I have those three hours in the afternoon to just kind of reset and refocus. And now she's using some of those afternoons intentionally to listen and to study to the podcast and get caught up. So I think it's amazing.
- [11:42]
A
I always love Christmas Eve at our house. And you know, when you think about it, a lot of times there's toys that'll break before the night is over, you know, and so these things, you know, that are important in the moment and bring joy aren't always very long lasting.
- [11:56]
B
Yeah, well, one, one thing kids love is to read books. I mean, you're teaching through godly books of what it means to be a part of God's forever family.
- [12:07]
A
That's why we love Brave books. They help parents raise strong families. They teach biblical values through powerful faith filled stories. Each month, Brave sends out a new book that teaches lessons like courage, forgiveness, and standing firm in your faith. Jace, Missy has written one of the brave books you have there in front.
- [12:25]
B
Of you because you're my family.
- [12:28]
A
Hers is about unconditional love. I'm holding one here that Jeff and Jessica have written called Dear Valor and it's a story about adoption. And so these are great books. And when you subscribe, you'll not only get a new book each month, plus you're going to get Missy and Jeff and Jessica's books for free. As a bonus, you'll also get access to Brave plus, which is their new streaming platform which is packed with safe uplift shows like Iggy and Mr. Kirk with our old friend Kirk Cameron. So it's a great gift for your kids, also for your grandkids to enjoy with them year round. Visit bravebooks.com unashamed to get this exclusive offer and use the code unashamed for 20% off your order. That's bravebooks.com unashamed Raise them with truth. Raise them brave.
- [13:19]
C
And I will say I feel like I look at it like there's all these different categories that I can be doing. Like, I mean housework is such a big one, I feel like for moms. But when this weekend when I was talking about earlier how older woman in my church was really pouring into me, she put it in a really good way that as moms, so much of our job in wife's is lowering our expectations for everything. Like it's not all going to be perfect. So I have to lower my expectations for the housework and the cleanliness, lower my expectations for my kids, lower my expectations for my husband and myself.
- [13:58]
D
Just drop the bar.
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C
Yeah, like no one's going to be perfect. And so if I'm going to choose to study my Bible during nap time, then maybe I don't get the laundry done and maybe the house is messy when the kids wake up from nap because I also want to rest for a little bit too, which is really.
- [14:18]
A
The whole 10 the Martha Mary tension. Right from those episodes where you saw those two sisters with Jesus. I mean one was definitely the let's make sure everything's taken care of person. The other one's like, it's important for me to sit and listen to Jesus and be at his feet. And he appreciated them both. But then at the same time he had to chide a little bit and say, look, you got to put first things first. Right? I mean that's kind of the, I.
- [14:41]
B
Mean this is going back to Genesis 3, even in the garden where in the curses that are being doled out. But that Genesis 3:15, which is where we kind of go back to the introduction that God would somehow come to this earth as A man from the woman's offspring, and this kind of spiritual battle would occur, that Jesus would ultimately win. But I just think the. There's something powerful about God choosing that way. Because just listening to Brighton talk is so exhausting. Can you imagine having. Because now.
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A
Now I. Brian, Jason's exhausted just listening to.
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B
I feel like I need a nap. Just because she went through. Because we all know when I was. When Missy, you know, had our little kids. And because you realize now I think I've reached an age where I realize I was just another form of a kid from her perspective.
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D
You know, I'm glad you said that, actually.
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B
I'm not saying that, because I know Reed. I know.
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A
And you famously went off and left your kids at home, you know, on their own, on multiple times.
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B
Two times out of 10 million. But it wasn't technically a percentage.
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D
And it wasn't Reed.
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A
No, it wasn't Reed. It was quiet.
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B
Just to show you how.
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C
Well, you couldn't leave Reed anywhere.
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B
Yeah, well, that's right. Cause Cole was so quiet. And I mean, Reed would have said. He would have just been on my heels, which he was. But. But. But having said all that, babe, after all the panic of me leaving young Cole, when the neighbor went over there, he's sitting there with his little backpack, and he's packed up, and he's just.
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D
Sitting there waiting on arrive like a gentleman.
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B
Waiting. He.
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E
He.
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B
He got it.
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D
So not the goal.
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B
It's not the goal. But. But anyway, I just wanted to bring that out. Cause I think a mother's love and the way the Bible highlights that in that way, I mean, the creator of the universe of all. I mean, could have just popped out of the sky. I mean, to come out through a woman is just absolutely incredible.
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A
Through. Well, and I love the idea, what you're describing, Braden, that it takes effort. And it takes effort to be spiritually minded as much as it does to take care of your family and to be a good wife or a good husband. It takes effort in all those areas. But you're not just going to magically, all of a sudden, have a more spiritual view of the world unless you spend time with God, unless you build that relationship. So important.
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B
You said that one of the motivating factors for you getting into the Bible in a deep way was wanting to train your kids, which you have a lot of them.
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C
Yeah, it is. Because I feel like that if you don't have, like, a biblical foundation for, like, how you're disciplining your kids, it's easy to Sit there and question yourself, which you do that anyways. Like, am I doing this right? Is this the right, like, like way I'm supposed to correct them? But then when you have that biblical foundation for parenting, you can like, trust in the Lord in that and know that he's promised that it's going to be fruitful in the end if we trust in him and follow his commands.
- [18:06]
A
Generational faith. So I woke up. Well, actually last night someone sent me an email of a story about a young man who had given his life to Christ this weekend. And his wife is nine months pregnant. Well, she's his wife now. She was his girlfriend as of two days ago. Nine months pregnant, baby due today as we're recording. And had been trying to get him to come and meet with their church. And he was unwilling to do it, but he found a video of our dear old dad. And I was thinking about this when Brighton was talking here you're talking about your guys grandchildren. And dad had done this video. He spoke at a church in Dallas years ago. And this guy came across it this weekend. And so his wife's been trying to get him to come. So imagine this. She's had her little small group praying that, trying to get him to come to Christ and you know, hopes like we all do, that our family's going to know more about Jesus. But it was dad's lesson that he did that impacted this guy and just broke through. And so all of a sudden, when the wife gets home, he's like, I'm ready. I'm ready to do this. I just listen to this guy, Phil Robertson. He's not even alive anymore. I mean, just think about the power of the gospel and it goes beyond even death. And he's like, I'm ready to do this. He said, but look, we got to get married. We got to get married before this baby's born. I got to get right with God. I want to be baptized, and we got to get married. And so yesterday they went to this church, you got baptized. And they sent me a video of it. It's very neat. And then they got married and today they're having their child, which is awesome. You think about a life change in a weekend. And then it led three other couples who knew this couple, who were, who were living together to say, you know what? We need to get all in on our commitment, which means we need to do this right. And so I just, I love that idea that what we're talking about here and we're represented with all these generations on this Set with dad's memory, with Brighton, with you, your children. The idea that the gospel and the good news of Jesus and what he's done for our lives carries on for generation to generation to generation.
- [20:22]
D
Well, even in real time right now, for your children at such young ages to understand that they have to be downstairs right now, and they have to be a bit more quiet. They can't be upstairs playing in the playroom because mamas do a biblical podcast with Jayrock and Lulu, you know, so for them to understand that this is important enough where, you know, our routine might be out of whack a little bit, but Mom's doing a Bible study, and that's amazing to me for them to know that. And that's what was happening in our home that Reid has talked about recently, that he kind of took for granted, too, of how much Bible study was going on in our home when he was growing up. And so I love it. I hope for. I hope all of our children take that for granted, because then when they get older, they just think it's what you're supposed to do.
- [21:11]
C
Yeah, totally. And even if, like, you're. Because we're not doing it perfect. But I even think about. We lead Bible study at our house every other Tuesday with another couple. And that is a lot of work right now.
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D
Yes.
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C
Getting everything ready. And then especially if Reed's leading, because then he's studying all the way up until it starts.
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E
And.
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C
But I think it's so good and gonna be so rewarding when our kids have those memories of us, just like Reed does. Like what you were just saying with y'.
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D
All.
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B
I always like it when Reed. He'll send me a question about something. And I figured out now it's usually the same day that y' all are doing your small group. So I'm like, okay, he wants to run.
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D
He needs it right now.
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B
He want.
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C
Not long ago, and he didn't know context. And then you. You sent, like, a long response. And then a couple hours later, he started laughing because all you sent was, how'd it go? But he didn't even say that we had done Bible study.
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D
You just knew.
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A
He knew.
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B
And then he called me.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And he's like, I got you on speaker. But I like that. That we're doing this as a family, which is. Is, I think, the way it should be. And, Al, kudos to that church where you told that story. But I kept thinking, well, kudos to them for not running these people off for living in sin. And, you know, our dad I know our dad is no longer with us, but he had a gift from God about meeting people, being real blunt with Jesus and then the implications of this decision. He just had a way of saying things that you would think would hurt their feelings or.
- [23:02]
A
Because he would be like, now, now.
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B
Look, you will not come to Jesus. Great. Now when are we going to sign on the dotted line?
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D
You can't keep getting in this girl's britches.
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A
Yeah, but even he would even look if he had been talking to this couple, if they had been actually his living room. He said, now, this is your wife? You're married to this woman? Well, no, we're living together. Well, right off the bat, we've got a problem. You know, it would just be very open about it. But you're right, Jase. It was where they were. They were welcome to be there to hear the good news of who Jesus is. It wasn't like, go away and come back once you know better.
- [23:44]
E
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- [25:05]
B
Well, when I started sharing Jesus with my friends at 16, I would bring some of them down there because they would want to hunt or fish. And it was so crazy, I had to start warning them because, like, My dad would ask them questions when they came in. What are you into? Are you dating any of these girls?
- [25:22]
D
And if they said, he did that to his grandchildren, too, he did that to everybody.
- [25:26]
B
But they would say, yeah, I'm dating a girl. And he'd say, are you getting in her pants? Well, look, you ask somebody point blank if they are. It's such a shocking question.
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A
They answer the truth.
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D
They do answer the question.
- [25:38]
B
Or they paused, and if they paused, he'd say, come over here and sit down. Let me share something with you. But then he would talk about Jesus and he would ask questions that, you know, their parents should have been asking is like, where's this headed? I mean, if they were, you know, living in sin, he was like, well, this is your plan. You don't even have a job. I mean, what's going to happen here? There's nothing good. And it's so amazing how it made people take a look at their life, take a look, you know, about what they think about God, the Creator, the Bible. And then you just start, you know, let God make these changes in your life.
- [26:14]
A
Well, Jace, we've talked about it so much. The idea behind beyond just the idea of knowing the law and that I'm a law breaker, the idea that I have a conscience that tells me inwardly things that I know don't seem to be right versus things that are wrong. And everybody has that. And some people can really push that far away, but for most people, it's right there. And this young man who we mentioned earlier, I mean, dad broke through, but I can guarantee you he's known all along he needed something more than what he had. And then when someone finally showed him what that was, it was like, well, I got to do something about it today. And they did. And praise God for this. I want to hear more about their story, too. All right, I want to get into this text because we got half our podcast left. I want to get y' alls take on it because this is the pivotal part. And obviously, Brighton, you've been. I don't know if you're caught up to where we are in the text, but we've set up this whole thing. We spent a long time in these last few chapters because there's been this sort of mock trial that's gone on, and every force that was around Jesus has seemingly been working against him. You know, Pilate being the kind of the biggest role, but then others as well. And so now we're at this pivotal moment where first we call it the halfway death. Pilate has him scourged. And it's a terrible, awful thing that happened. If we watched the Passion and Mel Gibson really showed us visually how brutal this idea was, that the beating that Jesus took, and the idea was to make you wish you were dead. I mean, that's the idea. It's a humiliation tactic. But now he's turned him over to be crucified, which is another whole round of humiliation and terrible things. And so this is where he's at. And so he's hanging on the cross, and that's where we're at in our text. But I wanted to ask you both this. Like, when you think about this whole scene of what Jesus did, and there's a lot of specifics in here about things he said and all that we'll get into at some point. But how just the crucifixion itself, the scourging, I mean, how does that personally impact you either when you watch it, when you read it, when you talk about it? I mean, how does that impact you personally? Brighton, we'll start with you. Just the idea of what Jesus went through for you, for your sins. For my sins, for the sins of the world.
- [28:41]
C
Yeah, I feel like that it's a little unimaginable, honestly, to think of that he did that for me personally. And when I've been studying, I've been thinking about, like, what. What's like the ultimate purpose of why he did this. Like, it is for our sin. But why is like, sin a problem? Because when you think about going back to the garden like now because of sin and because of the curse, we can't dwell with God anymore. And all of these things that they were doing in the Old Testament were never going to be enough. You had to continue to make sacrifices and continue to have offerings. And like, I did a lot of study on the day of atonement. And Jesus now here is willing to be the final passover lamb and the final atonement so that we can forever dwell with God. And I feel like for me that puts it so much more in like a loving. Like God is so loving and merciful that he would do that because he wants to come be with us. And it's not some. Like, it just feels so much more personal than it being this far off thing that he did for like the whole world. Like, he wants to walk with me daily and for me to be able to have access to him.
- [30:08]
D
I think about some of those moments when he was being scourged, when he was standing there, when he was. When Pilate was trying to explain to him that the authority was his. Why wouldn't he want to talk Pilate into helping him? And Jesus knowing he is all things, he's created all things. He's created everyone. There is no time and space that is bound unless it's bound by him. And it's like it's so now that when you understand who Jesus is, it's. It makes me feel sorry for Pilate because he didn't understand that. The high priests, it makes me angry at them because they had been waiting and praying for this to happen. And when it finally did, because it wasn't their idea and it wasn't on their terms, they were going to sacrifice this man who had done nothing but speak. Nothing violent was Jesus ever did, of course. Reminds me of someone else recently who was murdered for their own words. But again, going back to being personal, he could have said, you know, I know that there's no other way for these people to get back to the Father because we cut ourselves off. We are no longer holy. We can't be holy without Jesus. There is no other way. But, Father, I just really don't want to do it. And they're just not worth it, you know, they are the scum of the earth. They are bad, terrible. And he. He didn't. He. He chose to go along with the Father's plan and the Father's will, even though it was gonna just. He was gonna suffer so much. That's how much he loved us. Yes. There was no other way, but he could have said no. And, man, I'm so grateful that he said yes.
- [32:15]
A
That'd be a whole different story then, wouldn't it?
- [32:16]
D
Yes.
- [32:17]
A
I kind of took it like you, missy. It's because I knew that they. They knew. They had the prophecies, they had the prophets, they had all the scriptures that Jesus had been mentioning the whole time, and yet they chose to not believe that he was who he said he was. And in fact, even the high priest predicted earlier in John 11 that for the death of one man, it would be better for Israel. And it was true. It was true, but for all the wrong reasons that they had. So I'm like you. I reserve more ire, I guess, towards them. But then at the end of the day, I look at my own life and think, you know, I needed him just as much as those.
- [32:52]
D
Oh, I'm so grateful I'm on this side of it. I don't want to second guess myself of being in that exact moment in time and understanding who Jesus is. I'm glad I wasn't there. I'm very thankful to be where I am today. And that goes back to Acts 17. God put us in the exact time and place where we were supposed to be so that we will search for him and possibly reach out and find Him. So that's just amazing to me.
- [33:19]
B
Well, y'. All. Y' all brought up two points that I've been studying. And this was not planned. But when he quotes Psalm 22 on that, My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Because there's like seven statements he made.
- [33:34]
A
What I found fascinating. We only get three in John, but you read the rest of them.
- [33:37]
B
Yeah, well, what I find fascinating is because someone wrote a book one time that I looked up and basically made a point that when Jesus said those things, you can find those things in the psalms and Psalm 22. There's a case where you can find most of them. Just to point this out, Psalm 22:1 says that, oh, God, my God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from saving me, so far from the words of my groaning? But if you read Psalm 22, you see that it's about in the midst of suffering, having the confidence that he's not going to abandon him. And so it kind of makes sense when he's on the cross, if in preparation, all those times that he would go off alone to pray and to meditate. And you're like, what was he doing? What was he doing? So they were making the point. He was reading Psalm 22 a lot, probably had it memorized. And that's why I think he says those things. Because if you read that whole Psalm, you realize he wasn't trying to say, oh, I don't want to do this. He was saying in the worst of the worst, because I'll read the next couple verses. Look what it says in Psalm 22. It says in verse 2, O my God, I cry out, but you don't answer by night, and am not silent. And then verse three is very powerful, yet you are enthroned as the Holy One. You are the praise of Israel. In you, our fathers put their trust. They trusted and you delivered them. They cried to you and were saved. In you they trusted and were not disappointed. So it does that throughout the whole psalm. So when you get to verse 15, when it says, my strength is dried up like a potsherd, and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth, well, there's another thing he said. Remember when he said, I'm thirsty.
- [35:35]
A
I'm thirsty. Yeah.
- [35:36]
B
Yeah. And he's like, I'm surrounded by dogs. A band of evil men has encircled me. They have pierced my hands and my feet. I can count all my bones. People stare and gloat at me.
- [35:51]
E
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- [37:18]
B
And then here's another quote. They divide my garments among them and cast lots for my clothing. But then watch the positive. But you, O Lord, be not far off. You just referenced that. O my strength, come quickly to help me deliver my life from the sword, my precious life from the power of the dogs. Rescue me from the mouth of the lions. And so he continues to do that. And then at the end of the Psalm, it's very powerful because it says in verse 22, I will declare your name to my brothers in the congregation. I will praise you. Which reminds me of the Hebrews passage where he's talking about, he became part of the human family and called them brothers. And then it says, verse 24. For he has not despised or disdained the suffering of the afflicted one. He has not hidden his face from him. He has listened to his cry for help. From you comes the theme of my praise. In the great assembly before those who fear you, I will fulfill my vows. And it's really a wonderful picture of how, going back to the garden, which. What Brighton said, here's his son listening to his voice during the whole process, which is why he said over and over and over again, I listen to my father. I'm only doing what he tells me to do. I'm going to trust him in the process, which is the opposite of what Adam and Eve did. He was like, here's the process. Don't go to that tree in the middle of the knowledge of good and evil. But they couldn't help it because it was right there and it was so appealing and it was so easy, and they chose not to trust him in the process. So another thing I wanted to bring up is in John 19, I had never noticed this when the crowd was hollering, crucify him. In John 19:15. This is the only time in the Gospels that another saying is said which is, take him away. The significance of that, when I looked into that is in Hebrew, that is the phrase for that Azazel, which Brighton and I talked about in our own private discussion on this, because she brought up the Passover and why he chose the Passover. And I got into those three festivals that are combined in the three days, which is the Passover, the day of the atonement, and the unleavened bread. And then the resurrection was the celebration of the first fruits, which points to the resurrection. And in the Jewish day, which I've learned, I don't think we've talked about, but they considered any part of the day the day. And so this was like a 26 hour period, because they had the hour before the day, then any part of the day would include the day and then the hour after. So you combine all that, you can look that up and you'll see. But he covers. He covers all three of those significant celebrations and festivals. But in Hebrew, that take him away is the scapegoat clause. Now, you know, I may just be inventing that, but I think in a way you're seeing this play out that he became the scapegoat, which in that, in that tradition was to take the sins and put it on a live goat, send it out to the wilderness, where imagery of this is not where humans Belong or the same deal with the sea or whatever. And I found that fascinating that all these things are coming together from creation and they didn't.
- [40:58]
C
I studied a lot on, like, the two goats, and I thought it was so interesting how to think about, like, they didn't kill the scapegoat. They just confessed all the sin on it and then sent it out into the wilderness. And then, let me see, Leviticus 16. Well, 16 is where it explains a lot of, like, what they were actually supposed to do on the day of atonement. But then, let me see, verse 21, I found this that he says, which is also the person who's confessing over the scapegoat is the high priest. So in this chapter, it's Aaron, the brother of Moses, which Jesus will ultimately become the high priest. So he's confessing over all the iniquities of the people of Israel. So not even just for individual sins, but for the whole nation of Israel and all their transgressions, all their sins, he shall put them on the head of the goat and send it away into the wilderness. And this is the phrase I did a little more of a deep dive on. By the hand of a man who is in readiness. And a man who is in readiness. When I looked up that phrase. Well, Reed looked it up too, actually, and he said that that's the only place where that phrase is used in the Bible. But it's a man who is, like, called for that purpose, which you would think is foreshadowing Jesus. And also, I think it's significant that it says by the hand, because do you remember that passage in Exodus? I think it's Exodus 13 that says that God delivered them out of Israel. I mean, out of Egypt, with a mighty hand. And it says a mighty hand over and over and over again.
- [42:47]
A
It's everywhere.
- [42:48]
C
Yeah, yeah. And then at the resurrection, when he shows them their hands. I think you guys have talked about that on the podcast before. But just like the sign of liberation and freedom, and for him to send that scapegoat away into the wilderness by the hand of a man in readiness, and the goat shall bear all their iniquities on itself to a remote area, and he shall let the goat go free in the wilderness. So it's doing just so much more. Like, it's the presence of sin is being completely removed from Israel for just that day, for. For that year, I guess. Whereas Jesus is doing it for all of eternity, you know, and then.
- [43:33]
A
You're right, Brian, because the interaction, the intersection of the Passover and the scapegoat do come together in Jesus. Because you remember, Pilate tries to politically fix this by saying, oh, well, we get to release somebody.
- [43:50]
D
One person, one person.
- [43:51]
A
So why don't we release the king of the Jews? Because this is your guy. And they're like, no, give us Barabbas. And so they asked for another scapegoat. Who's Barabbas? But he's not worthy. I mean, he's worthy of sin because he was a sinner, but he's not worthy to be the Passover and the scapegoat. But only Jesus is. I want to bring this up, Jace, because you mentioned, mentioned about the prophecies. I'm so glad you went to Psalm 22. But there's two more that add to your point. In Psalm 69, which David also wrote, he says, they put gall in my food and gave me vinegar for my thirst, which is another one of those Messianic references. And then in Psalm 30, actually in Psalm, let's see, 31:5, he says this, Free me from the trap that is set for me, for you are my refuge. Into your hands I commit my spirit. Which of course is the last thing he says before he says it is finished. And I love that idea because remember, he's underneath the sign that says king of the Jews, that Pilate has mockingly put on him, that the Jews are saying, we don't want that say he claims to be the king of the Jews. He's really not, but he really is. Here's David, who is in the Davidic covenant. We know that from Psalm 72 that that goes forward all the way to Christ. And so now all these quotes that he's given on the cross, he's going back to that idea, I am your king. I was born to be the king. That's what he even told Pilate. Right?
- [45:17]
B
And to Brighton's point, I mean, he said the same thing in the book. In John wrote, In John 3:35, the Father loves the Son and has given all things into his hand, and then he repeats it before he washes their feet. Jesus knew that the Father put all things in his hands, or it's translated under his power in some translations, and that he had come from God and was returning to God. So I think you're right, because Egypt in a way, represented this empire of captivity, which when you get to the New Testament, you see, not only was this a battle against Rome in a kind of indirect way because he'd been handed over, but these corrupt Jewish leaders, but also the spiritual forces of evil. That's why Jesus was quick to say, think John 16 when he said, you know, in sin and righteousness and judgment. And when he got to judgment, he says, because the prince of this world, meaning the evil spiritual existence of the evil one and all that it's about will be condemned. So it was a lot more going on. I'm glad you brought that up. And I think Jesus is hitting on that as you see it unfold.
- [46:38]
E
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- [48:09]
D
Well, there, you know, you're talking about the broad, the broad scope of what it means just in the humanity, the scope of humanity, but bringing it back down to that individualized what does the crucifixion mean to me specifically Back to John 19, when one of Jesus sayings is, my God, my God, why have you forsaken me? That was his humanity crying out in a question. He wanted an answer. You know, and we've talked about this recently, but you know, in John 11, when Lazarus died, you know, Mary, Martha had the. Had the ends with Jesus. They were friends with Him. And so when they sent word to him to come and to heal their brother and Jesus didn't show up. Not only did he not show up, he didn't show up till four days after Lazarus was dead. What were those four days like to Mary and Martha, who. They thought Jesus was their friend, not just their Savior. They knew he was their Savior, but they really thought that they were special to him. And they felt abandoned those four days. They felt abandoned by their God. They didn't know he had bigger plans. They didn't understand it. But to even go back in our circumstance with Mia, when we found out that she had a cleft lip and palate, I'll say this. When I found out that she had a cleft lip palate in my womb, I thought that God, where were you weeks ago when her mouth was being formed at 8 to 10 weeks old? Where were you? Why did you abandon me and her? And I actually had told Chase. I don't know if I'd ever told him that, but I've told other people, like, there was a lot of things going on in the world. Were you distracted by the war in Iraq? You know, like there was big things happening. Why? Maybe you just didn't think we were special enough. And so to understand now, 22 years later, he had a much greater plan for Mia, who is amazing right now and then. But for Jesus to actually ask that in a moment of suffering, his own feeling of abandonment, and we all know he knew the bigger picture. That's how personal that was to him and to me now, too.
- [50:34]
B
I'm glad you brought that up, because the couple of passages that I skipped over in Psalm 22, it actually kind of says what you just said, because he, in verse seven, it says, all who see me mock me. They hurl, insult, shaking their heads. He trusts in the Lord, Let the Lord rescue him. Let him deliver him, since he delights in him. And then here's this deliverance that always happens in the Psalm. Yet you brought me out of the womb. You made me trust in you, even at my mother's breast from birth I was cast upon you from my mother's womb. You have been my God. Do not be far from Me, which is that again, I think that's the thing that the evil one tries to use in the temptation process, that God's way off can't relate. Why is all this bad stuff doesn't.
- [51:24]
D
Care about us personally? Exactly.
- [51:26]
B
And in this moment, you're seeing Jesus live perfectly, do everything right, introduce this kind of heaven and earth concept coming together. Here's God healing diseases through. Through a man and helping people and taking on corruption and all this. And what happens? Oh, it's wonderful. They ride off into the sunset and all the people are following him. No, they. He gets killed. He gets.
- [51:53]
D
And his best friends abandon him.
- [51:55]
B
Yeah. Everybody leaves him. I mean, it's like, what. What's happening. Which I think is why he brought up this holy spirit that's going to be in you. Because now you're going to be able to discern in your body, in your thinking, in your reasoning as a new creation of how to deal with all the things that go bad, living in a world that's corrupt, even being a new creation. So, I mean, it's a wonderful. I mean, it's. It's too great to not be of supernatural origin and make sense of life.
- [52:30]
D
You truly can relate to us, which is just a comfort in itself.
- [52:33]
A
Right now, I want to ask you one last thing, because we're almost out of time. Mary is here. His mother. In fact, N.T. wright, makes an interesting point that she was also there, the very first sign, the water to wine at the wedding. Because we're talking about wedding in the last podcast, Cole's wedding and this great occasion. Everybody's excited, and she comes to him and wants him do something about. They ran out of wine. And he's like, why are you troubling me, dear woman? It's not my time. Well, now it is his time. And guess what? She's right there. She's right there watching her son, who's been scourged, who's now on the cross. Miss, you have two sons. Brighton, you've got a son.
- [53:11]
D
Well, can make an announcement, Brighton. Yeah.
- [53:14]
C
This baby's another boy.
- [53:15]
A
Okay. Well, there you go. I didn't know if you were ready to go there. So you will have your second son. So tell me this as a mom, Brighton, putting yourself in Mary's position, that this is your son, you know, your firstborn in her case, and now you're watching him go through this and you know, you believe he's the son of God. I know Mary believed his claims absolutely. But here he is now dying. So put yourself in her shoes. How do you deal with that as a mom to have enough trust to say that this is worth it? When you're watching something like this, what would you think?
- [53:52]
C
Yeah, I think it's like, totally unimaginable putting. You almost can't even think about putting your own child in that position. But I think it shows the level of trust that she had in the father and in her son and what they were doing and the ultimate purpose for all of this. But I'm sure she had so many thoughts in her head of, is this the only way? That's what I would be thinking. Like, surely there has to be another way. Or save him right now from this. Like, don't let this go through. And even in those days, waiting, I think that that too would be like, so even. I don't know. It's like there's no words to even describe what the waiting would be like. But you know, and you trust in the ultimate plan. So it's hard to even put yourself in that position.
- [54:47]
D
Maybe, like, if you know when someone does die unexpectedly and you know that firsthand in your own family. Brighton. But the first thing that parents usually ask is, did they suffer? Because the loss is one thing, but to imagine the suffering beforehand is unimaginable. And that would be the worst. To be a mom and watching the suffering, knowing that he was. Was born to die, and you had your part in that, and you were used as a tool for that. But to watch your child suffer for hours and hours and be spit on and be hated so much, and there's nothing you can do or should do about it, would be very helpless feeling, except embrace it.
- [55:34]
A
And it is interesting that one of the things Jesus said from the cross was about his mom. When he told John, he said, well, woman, behold your son. Son, behold your mother. In the sense that he is asking John, we assume it's John to take care of his mom.
- [55:48]
D
And she stayed. Yeah, she didn't. I don't know if I could have sat there and watched that all the way through. She stayed and watched. I know she never left her thing. Would you say that? No, I wouldn't have left. I would have been there the entire time as well.
- [55:59]
B
Is processing this. Which is what leads us to Christ. Yeah. This is how God chose to lead humanity. This story. Because when you think about it, it's the greatest story on explaining evil in the world and what God's going to do about it. Because that famous verse in Romans 8, 3, 4, when it's like he came down here to condemn sin itself, which is we talked about the goat carrying them off and free us. Think about all the times Jesus has freed us from all sorts of things. But it's also the greatest love story. He spent this whole last section talking about love one another. I'm going to show you washing the disciples feet and promising the Holy Spirit. And then it's the greatest comeback story. I mean just all of those things, once you kind of see it happen and then think, what does this mean? I'm sure his mom thought, I mean it just made her smile thinking, okay.
- [56:57]
A
And just imagine when she got the word he was resurrected, somebody told her he's back. And what that must have felt like. Remember what she said at the very beginning. We'll close with this in Luke 1:38. May it be to me as you have said so she was a special vessel and that's. That's important. But I want to hear Yalls take on that too. It's been a blessing having you guys on. We could just keep going for another two more podcasts, but we'll have to do this again. Brighton, thank you so much for taking the time. Thank you for being.
- [57:24]
C
Thank you for having me.
- [57:25]
A
Yeah, thank you, Missy.
- [57:26]
D
See you in a couple days, Brighton. Yeah, see you.
- [57:29]
A
See you next time.
- [57:30]
B
See if Reed is still sane.
- [57:33]
A
Good for him.
- [57:35]
B
He's going to appreciate what you do.
- [57:39]
A
Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.
- [57:54]
B
It.