Ep 1218 | John Luke Drops Baby Bomb, Outs Willie’s Biggest Weakness & Christian Survives Killer Bees

Summary

Podcast Summary: Unashamed with the Robertson Family

Episode: Ep 1218 | John Luke Drops Baby Bomb, Outs Willie’s Biggest Weakness & Christian Survives Killer Bees
Date: November 28, 2025
Hosts: Willie, Zach, John Luke, Christian
Theme: Exploring stories of family, faith, and biblical lessons from West Monroe, Louisiana, centering on the legacy of fathers and sons through the lens of the story of David.

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Episode Overview

This episode of Unashamed focuses on family updates, humorous storytelling, and deep dives into Scripture, particularly the story of David as introduced in the latest “Unashamed Academy” series with Hillsdale College. The group reflects on generational faith, the strengths and weaknesses of their fathers, and biblical lessons about legacy, repentance, and calling, using both personal anecdotes and theological discussion.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Family Catch-Ups & Baby News

• The show kicks off with light-hearted stories from the Robertsons’ recent travels and family reunions, including a hilarious anecdote about a questionable couple's massage experience (00:06–02:05).
• John Luke announces a major life update:
  • “Since then, we knew we were pregnant then, but now we found out we were having twins and twin girls.” (06:02 – John Luke)
  • The group reacts joyously, noting that John Luke’s family will now have five kids—three girls, two boys, and that twins run on his wife’s side (06:07–06:51).

2. Humor: Chickens, Eggs, & Diets

• The conversation meanders into comical farming updates—chickens and tiny eggs, the struggle for fresh eggs on a high-protein diet, and the challenges of feeding a large family (07:00–08:28).
• Willie discusses diet woes: “If I eat, like, eggs from the store. Instant diarrhea… But fresh eggs, perfect.” (07:44–07:59)

3. Wild Encounters: Killer Bees

• John Luke shares a mishap involving honeybee hives during a prayer walk:
  • “Almost like there’s like a force, like a force field around me... And I walk past that beehive and I just get. I mean, annihilated.” (08:31–09:12)
• The segment blends faith and slapstick misadventure, comparing spiritual lessons to physical stings.

4. Bible Study: Transitioning into the Story of David

• The crew kicks off their new study module on David (10:10–). They praise the Hillsdale College courses for providing fresh, literary perspectives—especially Dr. Jackson’s.

• David’s Legacy:

  • Zach highlights the focus on David’s heart:
    • “The reason why David was a man after God’s own heart was simply because he had a repentant heart.” (04:40–05:14)

• Literary Insights:

  • The discussion covers how 1 and 2 Samuel's literary craftsmanship reveals a “divine inspiration”—notably, the setup of David’s story with detailed attention to generational flaws and blessings (12:29–14:26).

5. Fathers & Sons: Strengths and Weaknesses

• Willie challenges the crew to reflect on their fathers' greatest strengths and weaknesses (16:40–). Each shares candid personal insights:

  • Willie on Phil Robertson:
    • “My dad’s obvious greatest strength is his boldness… His greatest weakness… was his guilt from not being that person for the first 28 years.” (16:47–17:21)
  • John Luke:
    • “My dad’s biggest strength is, like, being present… Greatest weakness would be a lack of, like, a confession standpoint… not the transparency.” (17:21–18:35)
  • Zach:
    • “Your greatest strength is almost always your greatest weakness… His greatest strength is presence… His greatest weakness probably is just that, that he can be too attentive in the sense that… he could be, like, an enabler.” (19:02–20:09)
  • Christian (on Willie):
    • “His greatest strength is probably that drive and passion… His weakness—if it’s not whatever that thing is, he’s interested in the moment, like, he does not care.” (21:06–21:28)

• The humor and affection reveal the importance of generational reflection and honesty.

6. Core Bible Lesson: Foundations for the Davidic Line

Hannah, Eli, and the Significance of Mothers

• The group is struck by the fact that the story leading to David begins not with a father or son, but with Hannah’s faithfulness:

  • “Isn’t it ironic that all this about fathers and sons and the story actually starts with a mother?” (23:21)

• Hannah’s Sacrifice as a Model:

  • “She’s asking God to give her a gift. And then when she receives the gift, what does she do in return? She turns it back into a gift to God.” (25:14–25:45, Zach)
  • “A gift from God can only be gifted back to God.” (27:16–27:47, Zach)

• Nazarite Vow & Literary Structures:

  • Discussion on the Nazarite vow (no wine, no haircuts, no dead bodies) as taken by Samuel and historical biblical characters, and its symbolic significance (24:16–25:14).

7. Literary Craft in Scripture

• The group appreciates Dr. Jackson’s approach, focusing on the literary structure, motifs, and how first and second Samuel introduce David against a deeply flawed generational backdrop (13:30–14:26).
  • “From a literary perspective, it’s divine inspiration... the most impressive literary-wise in all of Scripture.” (13:17, John Luke referencing Dr. Jackson)

8. Lessons on Leadership and Failure

• The tragic story of Eli and his sons (Hophni and Phinehas) illustrates the dangers of spiritual leaders abusing authority and failing to restrain their children (30:16–34:19).
• Key point: God often raises a new line outside the expected one, showing God’s sovereignty (32:43, Christian).

9. Confrontation, Repentance, and the Role of Fathers

• Deep conversation about confronting children and loved ones—when, how, and why it’s necessary for growth and faithfulness (39:46–45:52).

  • “I think a father should lead in confrontation.” (43:39, Zach)
  • “Confrontation laced with the humility and the transparency of, ‘Hey, I see where you’re going, I’ve been in that position before.’” (43:54–44:58, John Luke)

10. Hope and Challenge: Repentance as the Key

• Despite the failures of people like Eli, the group is encouraged by the Bible’s recurring theme of repentance and second chances, especially exemplified by David:
  • “The main characteristic of David was that he was a man of repentance… that’s a man after my own heart.” (45:52–47:06, Zach)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Her exact line was ‘crotch on the neck’... and then fingers in the crack.” (01:16–01:18, John Luke quoting family story; a classic example of Unashamed humor)
• “You can have some, but you’re just gonna have to… it’s going to take about a dozen.” (07:23–08:28, Christian on tiny chicken eggs)
• “If I eat, like, eggs from the store. Instant diarrhea... But fresh eggs, perfect.” (07:44–07:59, Willie)
• “I thought, man, it makes you think about your children... and am I doing what I can to make sure they follow God and follow exactly what the blueprint God has given me?” (11:17–12:28, Willie)
• "A gift from God can only be gifted back to God." (27:16–27:47, Zach)
• “It’s God raises up outside the line or the lineage or whatever you think it’s going to be. I mean, and isn’t that what he always did?” (34:26–36:05, Zach)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Family Story and Bella/Jacob Massage: 00:06–02:05
• Podcast Theme and Transition: 02:10–04:40
• John Luke’s Baby News: 06:02–06:51
• Chickens, Eggs, and Diets: 07:00–08:28
• Killer Bee Attack: 08:31–09:12
• Starting the David Study: 10:10–14:26
• Fathers' Strengths & Weaknesses: 16:40–23:21
• Faithfulness of Hannah and Literary Insights: 23:21–27:47
• Lessons from Eli, Sons, and Confrontation: 30:16–45:52
• Repentance as the Key Theme for David: 45:52–47:06
• Closing Thoughts (Encouragement to Join the Course): 50:00–end

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Episode Takeaways

• The episode masterfully balances comedy, vulnerability, and faith-based reflection.
• There’s a strong emphasis on the generational impact of pursuing a godly legacy and the importance of repentance, not perfection.
• Listeners come away challenged to reflect on their own families—strengths, weaknesses, and how they might “gift back” to God.

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Recommendation

Whether you’re a longtime fan or a first-time listener, this episode represents the Unashamed podcast at its best—honest, funny, and full of practical theology. The study of David, begun with a focus on generational transitions and the power of human and divine “gifting,” sets a solid foundation for the weeks ahead.

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[Skip past the ads, intro, and outro to focus on the good stuff—family, faith, and real talk.]

Transcript

[Willie]

I am unashamed.

[Zach]

What about you?

[Willie]

The other night? I guess it was two nights ago. We were flying in from Idaho and we run into Willie and Corey in the Admiral's Club. And so we're boosting, and then we go out there, and here comes Bella and Jacob. They're in from someplace. And Jacob started telling the story about them getting a couple's massage. I laughed so hard. In fact, Lisa was laughing so loud, the entire. Like, two gates worth of people are looking. We're over in a corner. And because she's got that super loud laugh, it was. I mean, he's so dry when he's telling a story like that. And. But what really tickled me was that Bella sitting there and she. Her face is glowing. She looks like Maddie, our producer, and just red, like, because he's telling all this stuff, you know, that happened during this couple's massage. You just have to ask him about it.

[Christian]

He told his last name.

[Willie]

Oh, you heard it. It was a wild story. Was that not hilarious?

[Christian]

That was.

[Zach]

So what happened?

[Willie]

Oh, well, I don't know how much of it is true. I don't know how much Jacob embellish. It sounded like a J story to me.

[Christian]

They went to the high couple massage. Bella booked it.

[John Luke]

And apparently at one point during the massage, this lady was like, straddling Jacob's head.

[Christian]

Yeah.

[Zach]

Which.

[Willie]

And her. He said her knees were past his head.

[John Luke]

I don't know how you would ever.

[Christian]

His exact line was crotch on the neck. That was what he said. And then fingers in the crack. Cries out of that. And fingers in the crack.

[John Luke]

He never could get to that point for me.

[Willie]

He said, I've never been so lubed in all my life.

[Zach]

So she had his. Her fingers in his crack.

[Willie]

That's what he said. But then he said, but I do have a big crack.

[Christian]

Well, that's what I said. I said, maybe she. She couldn't figure find where the back.

[Willie]

Ended and the crack that's right when there's a crevasse. When you're talking about the Grand Canyon, what are you supposed to do?

[Zach]

You gotta watch out. I'm kind of with you, Christian. I'm not. You ain't getting that far.

[John Luke]

No, that's what I'm saying. That was the confusing part to me was like, how did you end up. How'd you end up there?

[Christian]

Yeah.

[Zach]

Because he kept saying, lower.

[Willie]

Yeah, lower, please. More. And Bella's reaction was the funniest part to me because it had just happened.

[Christian]

Yeah.

[Willie]

That afternoon. So it was all still fresh. I Said, I can see your hair looks a little greasy.

[Zach]

Welcome back to the Unashamed podcast. Actually, this is Unashamed for Hillsdale. This is our Hillsdale Friday episode. I'm piping in from North Carolina, guys.

[Christian]

I'm. How are y'?

[Willie]

All? Well, it's not the same without you here, Zach, which is. We feel like there's a void, and we've all been talking about it. There's a void here. Don't you. There's like an intellectual hole. Yeah, right in our. In our podcast.

[John Luke]

Intellectual hole that you can only fill smallly from North Carolina.

[Willie]

Yeah, exactly.

[Zach]

Yeah. Well, I'm here.

[Christian]

I'm here.

[Zach]

I'm there in spirit, and I'm. And we have technology. This is how I normally come in the Unashamed podcast, so. But you are sending me some really bizarre AI pictures.

[Willie]

He just went there.

[Zach]

Yeah, I'm not gonna what they were, but, like, I will say that Christian. So I get on, and Christian's looking at.

[Willie]

Christians are pranksters.

[John Luke]

I thought I was off camera when I was laughing, I couldn't see myself in the little square.

[Zach]

Now you had your shirt over your mouth. And I'm like, at first, why is he acting that way? And then I see, like, you start. You're, like, jiggling, you're shaking, laughing, and I'm like, am I something wrong with me? So I'm not, like, looking at myself.

[Willie]

Getting all self conscious. He's, like, looking at himself.

[Zach]

Well, then I realized, like, he's waiting for me to pick up my cell phone because he sent me a text. And so I pick up my cell.

[Willie]

Phone, and he had already showed us the picture. And it's very funny.

[Zach]

A picture of myself that had been.

[Willie]

Well, as.

[Christian]

As.

[Willie]

I don't know about you, you guys, but I have been the. I wouldn't call it a victim, I guess, but a subject of many AI posts, especially when dad was sick and mom and most of mine, I was in, like, a Catholic, you know, whatever they call that with the white collar all black and, like, doing all these blessings. And Mom's on her deathbed. Dad's on his deathbed size already dead. You know, I'm doing last rites, and so all the pictures of me are in this. So once that, like, took off, that was the thing. But what's funny is none of them were me. They were close, but they weren't actually me. And there'd be a picture of me somewhere in there, and you'd see me, and you'd see the guy who's playing me. And it's just. I don't know, it wasn't that close. But that. That happened. Like, I guess it still happened.

[John Luke]

This one looked exactly like Zach's.

[Christian]

It was. I thought it was real when I first saw it. That's it.

[Zach]

Yeah. I'm like, I hope that doesn't get out on the Internet, because then people will think it's real. I'm not going to tell you what.

[Willie]

It better delete it for your wife.

[Zach]

It was high. I just say it's highly inappropriate. But the passes behind this, you have a chance to repent.

[John Luke]

You know, we're.

[Zach]

Hey, by the way, we're in a new story, or we're now in the story of David. This is. This has been really good. Where it's unashamed for hillsdale.com. you guys need to check it out. They offer a bunch of free courses. So now we've done Genesis, Exodus, and now we're into the story of David. And one of the incredible things that I've learned, not learned, but just, I guess, was reminded of, is the reason why David was a man after God's own heart was simply because he had a repentant heart. And. And that's a good opportunity for you to repent, Christian.

[Christian]

You can.

[Zach]

You can be like David and repent for what you did, and then we can.

[John Luke]

Are you.

[Zach]

You can find.

[John Luke]

Are you my Nathan?

[Willie]

I mean, this is the confrontation.

[Christian]

I think Zach is David, and Christian's the Goliath in this scenario.

[Willie]

I think that's right. So to the. For. For the audience. You guys, like, you just finished Exodus, and so for you, it's one week to the next. But for us, it's been a couple of months since we got together to record, so it's kind of like getting the band back together today. So we've been kind of having some fun with that. But I thought since it is a little bit of a gap for us. John, Luke, we hinted, I think, during the Exodus study that you guys were going to have a child or more, but we didn't talk anything about it. So now that you guys are kind of out there, tell us what's going on with you and your little family.

[Christian]

Since then, we knew we were pregnant then, but now we found out we were having twins and twin girls.

[Willie]

Oh, twin girls.

[Christian]

Big update. Life update. Twin girls.

[John Luke]

Twin girls.

[Zach]

I know.

[John Luke]

Three girls to two boys.

[Christian]

Three girls. Yep. Two boys. That's the crazy part. Twins is like, okay, that's crazy. But we've done the baby, We've had babies, and We've raised them to. Not to toddlers now, but we're going from three kids to five kids. I feel like that's another level.

[Willie]

So basically you're one exchange student from catching up with your mom and dad. I mean, you're right there in the neighborhood.

[Christian]

They'll have to be an exchange with the twins.

[Zach]

We don't have twins on the Robertson side that I know of. So that. Is that her side of the family that brought the.

[Christian]

That's her side. Yep, that's her side. Her sister just had twins, too, so.

[Willie]

Wow.

[Christian]

Now. So her parents are doubling up on grandkids.

[John Luke]

Do you feel like you're like all the chicks you've been like, is that going to help you with the twins, you think?

[Christian]

Yeah, literal chicks. Chickens that I have right now.

[John Luke]

Yeah.

[Willie]

I was wondering where that was going.

[Christian]

All the chicks you've been picking up, helping you out.

[Zach]

Inappropriate. My gosh.

[John Luke]

He has baby chicks.

[Willie]

More chickens. Unashamed for hills there.

[Christian]

I just called me out. Yeah.

[John Luke]

No, I'm saying. Yeah, we. We filmed about it on the show. You have a dope chicken coop.

[Christian]

Yes.

[Willie]

Oh, that's right.

[Christian]

Yeah. And I just got 10 more chicks.

[John Luke]

Thank you. Yeah. So I'm saying that's going to help you with all the. The, you know, having twins.

[Christian]

Well, having all of these animals that feeding and taken care of two more, it's like.

[Willie]

Are you gonna have eggs soon?

[Christian]

Yeah.

[Willie]

Oh, man. We need to talk when this is over because I can only. I can only eat fresh eggs now since I've done this PhD diet on this high protein and I cannot eat boiled eggs. Yeah. If I eat, like, eggs from the store. Instant diarrhea.

[Christian]

Really?

[Willie]

Yeah. But fresh eggs, perfect.

[Christian]

Yeah.

[Willie]

So let's talk later. What were you gonna say is that I don't.

[Zach]

You lost me at diarrhea. I don't know what I was gonna say. That's like, let's just get vulnerable.

[Christian]

So I've got. I'm a very impractical farmer, so my chicks that I just got are called seramas, are the tiniest chickens. So the eggs are literally this big. Ooh.

[Willie]

They're like, I need a lot of eggs.

[Christian]

So you're gonna have to. You can have some, but you're just gonna have to.

[Willie]

It's going to take about a dozen.

[John Luke]

Speaking of your farming, so we have two, like, honeybee, whatever you would call that.

[Christian]

Bees. Yeah. Hives.

[John Luke]

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, sorry. So we have, like, two hives that are kind of on, like, the back part of our property and a couple Weeks ago, I was like, you know what? I'm gonna just kind of prayer walk around here and, you know, put some oil out on our boundary lines and do this whole thing. So I'm doing this and I walk past the bees and I'm like, you know, the Lord is with me. I'm anointing my property. Almost like there's like a force, like a force field around me. And I walk past that beehive and I just get. I mean, annihilated. The oil spills everywhere. I got. I'm stung. I'm like, I was flat.

[Willie]

It hurts so bad. Yeah.

[John Luke]

Yeah. It quickly turned. Went from spiritual to a quick satanic attack.

[Willie]

More repentance. That reminds me of the story that my. My good friend Eddie down in Gulf Shores, he drives the golf carts for the Baptist church down there. And, you know, Eddie's pretty salty guy. He's a fisherman, you know, and so they were driving up the other day and he had a full boat on this golf cart, and he got two or three yellow jackets. Got him on this arm and hand. So he said a cuss word and all the people are like, we'll just get off and walk. I said, well, what happened? Eddie said, well, I'm on suspension.

[John Luke]

That's hilarious.

[Willie]

I guess you can't cuss on the golf cart. So, Zach, you ready to get into this?

[Zach]

Yeah. The story of David. This was really good. If you haven't signed up, I'm telling you, go take the courses with us. We're going to be doing lecture one and two today, which the first lecture is always intro from Dr. Arne. So that's just the intro to the course. And then Dr. Jackson, we're with him again. And then we get into the story of David. And I love the fact that he. He doesn't just jump into David. He starts with kind of the precursor to the story of David, because really understand David, you gotta. Gotta back up a little bit.

[Christian]

Yeah, and I really like that too.

[John Luke]

I thought that was awesome.

[Willie]

I will say this just inside baseball to unashamed nation. Dr. Jackson is watching all the podcasts because he texts me every Friday after they air and gives me a little summary of what we talked about. But he is loving what we're doing. So just so you guys know, just you're out there watching. And Lisa, Will was started watching, and so she watches the lecture and then goes and watches our podcast about it. And she said it's fantastic. So. And she doesn't give a lot of high compliments to our kind you know, so. So anyway, it's working out pretty well. Yeah, I thought the same thing was great. I love that he went. Went back to do it and he calls it Shepherd Father and king is the.

[Zach]

Is the arch.

[Willie]

But I thought about it, how difficult it is to put. David is such a larger than life, almost larger than Bible character figure that, you know, because you think about all the things that we don't talk about. We'll get into it a little bit later in some of the lectures. But he's not just shepherd, father, king, music poet, warrior, strategist. He's flawed, he's forgiven, he understands the page. He wrote most of the songs. So you just think about this guy. I mean, what he accomplished in his life. But then everything that led up to it. But Jackson's take, which I think is really good, is that there's an arch over this concept of father and son and pressing forward, generational blessing and quite frankly, the lack of it that's here. But I was personally challenged by that just right off the bat with the whole study, because I hadn't thought about it in those terms. And I thought, man, it makes you think about your children and in my case, now my grandchildren, and am I doing what I can to make sure they follow God and follow exactly what the blueprint God has given me? And so, I mean, it's been super challenging.

[John Luke]

Yeah.

[Willie]

For me.

[John Luke]

Yeah. I thought it was so cool how we started with Hannah and Eli and. Because there were so many things he talked about in that beginning section with the cloak and with all those things and tying it back to, you know, when Samuel dies and with Saul. And there were so many things that he had talked about that I've never thought about. But the thing that I thought was cool. So when he was here with us talking about Exodus, we were talking about what's your favorite portion of Scripture? And he talked about first and Second Samuel. And he just. He was talking about how from a literary. You know, he's. He's. He's like a professional in literature. And he was talking about how from a literary perspective, you know, that it's divine inspiration when you just read first and Second Samuel. And whenever I read first and Second Samuel, I'm thinking about, you know, David and Goliath and all the things David did. But the way he was breaking it down with, you know, the way that it's written, it's such a beautiful piece of text. And I've never heard anyone really hone in on how impressive it is from. From a literary Standpoint. And he was just saying it's the most impressive literary wise in all of Scripture.

[Willie]

Yeah. Which is. Which is true.

[Zach]

You get those first four chapters in First Samuel. And, you know, Dr. Jackson made the point, like, I mean, think about how much is packed into just those four chapters. And I, you know, I love his approach because it's not how I typically approach the reading of the Scriptures. I typically. He says at the beginning, hey, if you're looking for, like, an exegetical, like, pursuit here, that's not what this is. He is looking at it as a literary device. And, And I think that. But for me, that it's opening up other senses to the story that maybe I don't typically use. I found it very helpful. Yeah. And then when he made that point, these first four chapters, I mean, just look at how much is in the first four chapters of First Samuel. I was like, yeah, that is pretty incredible that you can put that much meat in such a short span of text. It's very impressive.

[Willie]

Well, I think that, to personalize it, like, to your point, Zach, when you also, if you approach it that way, you kind of get out of the. Some of the chronological issues that you get with some of the ancient texts. And he mentions that because we're going to hit that a couple of times in future lectures where things seem repeated and you're not sure exactly how that. How that broke down. But I had a question for you, because I think part of this podcast is part of the appeal of what we're doing is taking something, a story and a narrative, and not only just looking at the facts of it, but also the person of it and how it impacts you. And so I had a question for y', all, and I had. I hadn't. Audience. I have not asked them this, so I'm asking them on the, on the jump. But I couldn't help but think about my own father when thinking about this concept of fathers and sons. And because you see these men, and they have so many great qualities and even the ones who have severe flaws and children, I mean, Eli had a lot of problems, but then he also had a lot of tremendous, amazing abilities and all these things. So I want to ask you, and let you tell the audience, because I was thinking about three out of four of us, our fathers have been on this podcast. Your dad's the only one that hasn't been here. But two questions, and I'll start, since I'm throwing it to y', all, what is your father's greatest strength and what's his greatest weakness. Because either way, those two things are gonna come out. And I'll start, because, you know, obviously on this podcast, everybody knows dad, because this was his podcast originally. But my dad's obvious greatest strength is his boldness. Was his boldness and his sense of neither left nor right. Like, everything was this linear line with him. It was black and white. It was, here's what it is. Here's what the Almighty says. Here's what I'm going to do. Greatest strength. I mean, it was his North Star for most of his life. His greatest weakness, in my opinion, was his guilt from not being that person for the first 28 years of his life. And when we did the movie, I think it came out even stronger some him trying to wrestle with that. And then when Phyllis came along, he kind of went through another wave of it. And then right toward the end of his life, when the governor part of your brain begins to start breaking down with what he had, then that seeps out. And so there were these moments where he would look at me especially and just say, you know, I just. I wasn't a good guy. I mean, I made a lot of mistakes. And it was interesting because here were his sons. You talk about father to sons rallying to their dad and saying, but, dad, man, you're a great man. God did great things because of what Jesus did for you. You've preached a thousands. You know, we were just, like, pumping in this idea that, you know. But I think that weakness was always something he struggled with, was the idea of the man he was. It was just hard for him to imagine. So that's my take. Who else?

[John Luke]

Yeah, I feel like for me, my dad's biggest strength is, like, being present. Like, we don't live in the same place, but either I'm calling him or he's calling me. So we talk every day. I talk to both my parents probably multiple times a day. But present from the standpoint of he's always asked me how I'm doing or what do we have going on. So he's never out of the loop of things we're doing, which is really cool, because, you know, not living in the same place and having a, you know, a father that still calls you and talk them through those life things is great. I would say biggest weakness for my dad would probably be a lack of, like, a confession standpoint. Like, there's. There's been rare times where my dad's been like, hey, I'm really sorry, that, or, hey, when I was your age, these are Things I struggle with. I want to kind of help you here. So probably that. And that's probably just from his dad, you know, and just the whole lineage thing. So with me, with my daughter says something I want to be better at of if I, you know, lash out here or if I struggle in an area here, being quick to be like, hey, I'm sorry that I did that, and I don't want to be that person.

[Willie]

So that's good.

[John Luke]

Greatest strength would be presence, and he always is interested with what we're doing. And then weakness would be that. You know, that was the transparent part. Yeah, yeah. Not the transparency.

[Willie]

That's good.

[Zach]

You notice that. That Phil is gone, so Al has no repercussions for confessing his dad's greatest strength or weakness.

[Christian]

Yeah.

[Willie]

Which is why.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[John Luke]

Yeah.

[Zach]

So, dad, if you listen to this podcast.

[Willie]

Yeah.

[John Luke]

I'll get a call in, like, three months, and I'll be like, what are you talking about?

[Zach]

Why have you never told me this, man? We're, like, we're unpacking.

[Christian]

Well, my.

[Zach]

You know, I've always said this about, like, strengths, that your greatest strength is almost always your greatest weakness. And they. They have a weird relationship. So the thing that you're really good at, it's like that gets an overdrive, and it can become your weakness. So for my dad, I would say that's definitely true, that his. I would say his greatest strength is what you just said, his presence. He is very present and available for people, and he's always been that way. Like, my dad will take time with anybody. I'm not like that.

[Willie]

I'm.

[Zach]

I'm all. My mind is always, like, moving, and so I have a hard time sometimes, like, being present in the moment and attentive. Jill tells me that all the time. So, I mean, here, speaking of confession, my dad's not like that. I mean, he is present, available. He's tuned in. If you're talking to him like he's talking to you, and he's in that moment. I think his greatest weakness probably is just that, that he. He can be too attentive in the sense that he. I have to. Like, he could be, like, an enabler.

[Willie]

Yeah.

[Zach]

I mean, because he's just. He just is. I mean, he's going to take it your word. He's going to always be there for you. And there's been times I'm like, dad, you probably need to let that one go. You know what I mean? That's not good for you. So, yeah, if that. I hope that was didn't offend you. If you listen to the podcast. Let's throw Willie under the bus.

[Christian]

Yeah. He's probably not gonna listen to this podcast.

[Willie]

He's never gonna worry about.

[Christian]

Yeah, let's send it to him. Yeah.

[John Luke]

Even if this got clipped and sent to the group message, he still.

[Willie]

He still didn't listen.

[John Luke]

He still wouldn't listen to it.

[Zach]

Wow. There was. Hey, there was. When we did Willie's 50th birthday party and we had the roast. I. I just remember everybody was afraid to roast him except for me and John Luke. And John Luke's was a little stinging. I mean, it was like he went there, so.

[Willie]

But the oldest son can do that.

[Christian]

I know I can. Yeah. Well, I think that's. That's one thing my dad taught me is you gotta go all the way.

[Willie]

Exactly.

[Christian]

Don't go halfway. His greatest strength is probably that drive and passion about whatever he's doing in the moment. Like, if he has an idea for something, he's 100%. That's. That's it. And I think that kind of goes along with his weakness of if it's not whatever that thing is, he's interested in the moment. Like, he does not care.

[John Luke]

And there's no having a conversation. Conversation like a. Like a. Like a critiquing what that thing is.

[Christian]

Oh, yeah.

[John Luke]

No, there's no point. Hey, have you thought about it from, like, a different. You know, it's like, no, this is what we're doing. This is what it is.

[Christian]

This is what we're doing. This is it. Yeah. And then once his mind shifts from that, whatever that project is, totally done with it. Never bring it up again. Don't talk about it. He doesn't care about it. Whatever it is, it's fine. He's on to the next thing. So he's very passionate about what he's interested in the moment, and he obviously, he's done. Had a lot of great success being all in on that.

[John Luke]

Yeah.

[Willie]

No, that's good.

[Zach]

So now that we've opened up three father wounds that have to be mended.

[Willie]

Later, well, we find that sometimes. Some good counseling on the Unashamed podcast as well. I do think, I find it interesting that it's. That the whole context is about passing forward fathers to sons. It's kind of like what we just talked about. And I love what Christian said you said. You articulated what I think we all try to do, and you see something, even a perceived weakness, and you say, I want to build on that and be stronger and be better. Instead of what we're seeing in these contexts where there was something really good and holy in the sense of letting God be in control. And then, of course, the Son's not adhering to that at all, but then turning something totally different and immoral in some cases and a lot of other stuff. But isn't it ironic that all this about fathers and sons and the story actually starts with a mother? It actually starts with the mom. And, you know, it mentions the man that she's married to, and she's one of two wives. The other wife has several. A lot of children she can't. Hannah can have children, but he dotes on her because of that and gives her a double portion of these sacrifices and everything that's going forward. But it's her faithfulness that really starts to me, the whole thread of this whole discussion that we're going to have all the way through David, this idea that faithfulness to God is the arch. That's what we're trying to get people to do. And we're trying to get our families to do it generationally. But to do that, each level has to look at the ones that raised them and say, okay, I see your blessing and your faithfulness, and I'm going to raise that up this level. And that has to be what's there and that. And I think that's what the whole purpose of Hannah dedicating and basically giving Samuel over to God is exactly what that means. Because it was the thing she cherished most, and yet she was willing to give him to God. I mean, what does it say, Lent him. Lent him to God. Which is a great way of doing this. I just thought it was fascinating that.

[John Luke]

Yes, she made that Nazarite vow, right.

[Willie]

Which you see throughout Scripture. I looked it up. It's. It starts in Numbers six is the chapter, and I won't read it, but the whole thing is about it. And there was basically three things for the Nazarite vow. There was no. No drinking. It was the wine. Anything produced. There was alcohol that they couldn't drink. No haircuts, which a lot of people we know, they're good for that. But then there was the interesting one you don't read about much is no dead body. You couldn't be around any dead bodies. That was part of the Nazarite vow. If you did, you had to cut your hair and go through all these things. And then, of course, Samson in Judges 13, as well as John the Baptist in Luke 1 are, I guess, two of the more famous Nazarite Vow people. But it doesn't really go into explanation to number six, other than just making the vow that you were going to do this, as to why those particular three things. I mean, it's kind of weird, isn't it? I mean, like, all the things you make a vow to and that it would be these three things that would mark that vow.

[Zach]

So I think it's cool. The way we've actually done this whole study is we started in Genesis, you know, then we went to Exodus. Now we're in the story of David. I don't think we planned like that at the beginning when we. And by the way, if you haven't done those, I would say go back and do the Genesis 1, then do the Exodus 1, and then come into this one with us. You can sign [e-mail] that's unashamedforhills.com but what I love about the story is when you see what's happening here in First Samuel is she's asking the Lord for a gift. And Dr. Jackson brings this up and I thought was really beautiful point that she's asking God to give her a gift. And then when she receives the gift, what does she do in return? She turns it back into a gift to God. And I thought, man, will you see that in the garden? That was the original role of Adam, right? The priest. He originally was a priestly role. And so he was to take the blessings from God, and then he poured them back into blessing, back to God. So it's that song that we sing. Every blessing you pour out, we just take that and we transform it. We turn it back into praise. And so you're seeing that here in this moment, the way that Hannah views this gift from God, she's not taking this gift and hoarding it up. She's taking this gift and then turning it back into praise and offering to God. I thought that was such a beautiful point.

[Willie]

And also it's interesting you just brought that up because in number six, which is this whole chapter about this Nazarite vow, you know what the last three verses of number six is the very famous blessing text. Lord bless you. Lord keep you. Lord make his face shine upon you. That's the way that chapter ends. Oddly. I mean, it just. You know what I'm saying? It comes out with this great blessing. So it's just what you were talking about. That's what she turns around.

[Zach]

It's the Eucharist. I mean, it's like a Eucharistic view of the world. But he said that this, he said something like a gift from God can only be gifted back to God. And I think it's in that, that you actually see the role of humanity like this. What she's actually doing here is she's showing us, Hannah's actually showing us what is our role as humans. And it's to receive gift and then, and then give that back to God as gifts.

[Willie]

There's a Paul Stevens who's a guy that's been on the podcast a couple of times, and he was the first guy that dad ever led to Christ. He was a teenager. Dad had just was a brand new Christian teaching at Watchtower Christian, and Paul was a student. And so we've had a lifelong relationship. And when Paul has two boys and his youngest, one, Jake, had a pretty severe case of juvenile diabetes and found this out like in, I guess it was about middle school age. And so Paul and Kim were just, you know, distraught, not sure what was going to happen. Would he even survive? You know, how would this affect his life? And he said he was just wrestling with this idea and one night he couldn't sleep. And he's just praying and he said he just got up and he went down. It's the middle of the night, his family's asleep. And he got down on his knees next to Jake's bed and he just, in that moment, he just said, God, I'm giving him to you totally. He's yours. I can't control this. I can't do anything about it. And so I am giving him to you. And whatever you do, I'm going to accept and accept that as your will. And then he said he was so overwhelmed by that feeling of that there was a relief and a burden lifted off. He went over and knelt by Zach's bed in his room, his other son, and did the same thing. And then when he went back to bed, he had the same prayer for his wife. And he just talked about the sort of cathartic nature of that, like to give his family to God. It came out of a situation where you're not sure what's going to happen. And so that story has always impacted me so deep because I thought, what an act of faith in a moment where you're scared because this is your kids and your wife, the ones you love most on earth, that you would just say they're yours. I cannot, I know I cannot control the outcome of what happens. And I think that's what I see in this is that sort of faith in what she does. And what's ironic is when she's having this moment of prayer, he thinks she's drunk, remember? I mean, he lies, like. And I wonder because his family was such a mess, maybe that's what he thought. Look at this drunk lady over here. And it reminded me of Zach of Acts 2, whenever the first gift of tongues, and they were like, what are you drunk? It's nine o'clock in the morning. What are you people doing? So it's like, people miss a lot of times this beautiful act of faith just because they're so used to just worldly, carnal stuff, you know.

[John Luke]

Why do you think the Bible talks? Because, I mean, it talks about a pretty decent bit at the beginning of 1 Samuel, but like Eli's sons and talking about how wicked they were and kind of honing in on that. Why do you think the Bible. Because obviously there's a bunch of sons from, you know, from priests and people in the Bible that are never mentioned. But, you know, with Hophni and Phinehas, I don't know why y' all thought maybe they're single.

[Christian]

I kind of have a note on this. I thought it was interesting that whenever Hannah goes and then Eli says, oh, you're drunk. That Eli had no idea what God was doing in the world. Like, to me, it seemed like what God was doing with Hannah and Samuel was preparing the way for, to raise up a new prophet. Because obviously at this point, Eli should have known, oh, God's doing something here.

[Zach]

But he didn't.

[Christian]

He says, you're drunk. He totally passes off. Which means even at this point, way earlier, even before the sons die and things go on, Eli is already not in line with God's will.

[Willie]

Yeah, yeah, no, and I think that's a great point because that may be one of the answers to your question, Christian, is because if he can't not only see that because he's the prophet, he's the guy that's supposed to be seeing these things, but then he can't even see it in his own kids, what's happening, and he has to wait until someone comes and reports it to him. But I think one of the reasons why it's mentioned here, to be honest with you, having been a pastor for many years myself, is because when people take advantage of a spiritual position, they're put in, because these are the sons, these are supposed to be the priests themselves. And when they're taking that position of authority and instead using it for immoral, terrible things that are destroying families, I can promise you, just like it does in today's culture, when a pastor, when someone, a spiritual leader, an elder in a church or a leader has these sort of things going on in their lives, it destroys not just the people they're involved with, but many, many others who question their faith and everything else. So I think it's one of the greatest acts of disservice to God that you can do to take that position that he's put you in to lead people to something better and then to use it to your own sinful devices. I mean, what they were doing was really bad, and it was not a good thing, for sure.

[Christian]

I was thinking, too, what the text is kind of showing here is that God will raise up someone outside of the line. Like, that's what we see with Saul and David later is you've got Saul as King Jonathan should be next in line. But whenever Saul's house was falling, God was raising up a new line. And that's what happened here with the prophets. Like, in Israel's mind at this point, Hophni and Phineas were going to be next. And like, oh, they're getting set up as the next prophet, but then they get killed and God's already got a plan to raise up someone new.

[John Luke]

Yeah, because I thought it was cool because when Dr. Jackson was talking about, you know, the literature part of it, when he is. When it's getting reported to Eli about what happened, I can't remember what the very first thing he said was. But then it's, you know, we were routed against the Philistines. He was honing in on the order of which this was relayed to Eli. It was something. I cannot remember what the first one was. But then we were routed. And then it was, your sons have been killed. And then it was, oh, and the Ark of the Covenant has been stolen.

[Willie]

There was actually four. Israel fled before then. Israel was routed, then the two sons were killed, and then finally the Ark.

[John Luke]

But he was talking about that from, like. Because I just would have just read that as just. Yeah, the thing. But he was talking about the literary tools and how, you know, it ended with the thing that was most important to Eli and those things. I thought that was cool. But, yeah, that was a crazy. And then he just falls over and dies.

[Zach]

It's kind of like he said he.

[Willie]

Was old and heavy. I was like, well, I can relate to that.

[Zach]

Well, it's interesting that when. When I was reading this and going through the text, it was interesting. You think, why bring the Eli sons into the. How do they play into the Big story. I love what you said, John, Luke of that. It's God raises up outside the line or the lineage or whatever you think it's going to be. I mean, and isn't that what he always did? I mean, if you just go through the Bible and you look at all the main characters, it's not the people it's supposed to be. It's not Esau that got the blessing. It was Jacob. It was Joseph who ends up being the slave boy who ends up leading all of Egypt. He's second command. And even then, even in that story, it wasn't even Joseph through which the line of, of Jesus came, didn't come through Joseph's lineage. It didn't come through even Benjamin's. It came through Judah. It's always the, it's never the guy you think, and you're seeing it here. You think, well, Eli's in this position where he's serving as high priest. He's, he's, he's the judge. I mean, he's the guy. His sons are wicked. He's not a horrible guy. It's not. He failed to restrain his kids. That was bad. But I think the point of it is this. And you're going to see this continually, as you mentioned with Saul and David, it's that God doesn't need you, he doesn't need me to accomplish his will. So that's why the kingdom and the coming of the Christ, it's always in this weird pattern of like it's just coming in these. God's going to raise it up no matter what happens. And even in the story of where this ends, where they stole, where they steal the ark, which is kind of crazy to think about. We just got through Exodus, which. The whole point of the book of Exodus was the building of the tabernacle and the ark of the covenant sitting in the holy of holies that only the high priest could go into once a year on Yom Kippur. And you know, when he made the atonement for the people and all that. So the centerpiece of their whole thing, the whole Exodus story, which he brings up again here as well, repeatedly throughout 1 and 2 Samuel. But they steal that the opposing powers steal this. And without any help from Israel, the ark itself defeats these foreign armies. Just God's presence being among them. As we read later, I think that's the point. God's in control. He doesn't need us to make his story fit. The story's going to work whether we are involved in it or not.

[Willie]

Well, and to your point about Samuel not understanding him, being dedicated, and, you know, we don't know when that was. She said she wanted to wean him. You know, I don't know at what point, you know, he comes in and, like, he's in the temple. But you remember when he gets the first call from God and he does the Hanini, you know, here I am. And. But he thinks it's Eli calling him. So he's like. He goes in, he's like, here I am. He said, I didn't call you. Go back to bed. And so then it happens again. And then he comes back. Well, now Eli understands he's. He's been called by God. And so he tells him, when he calls you again, you say hineni to him, and he'll tell you what to do. So it's like, you see this teaching moment, and the reason why is because he's outside, he is an outsider. And so now he's having to learn this. So he gets that third call, and he gets the here am I. What's funny is then he gets basically the bad news. His first prophetic message as a pretty young person apparently is, oh, by the way, go tell him it's over. And, like, the sons are dying. It's like, oh, wow, what did? My first sermon that I get to give is, like, the worst thing ever. And remember, he was afraid. He didn't even know how he was going to tell him. But to the point of Eli still having a good heart, even though he was a man of flaws, he said no, you tell me what he said, because he said it to you for a reason, a purpose. And remember when he tells him, he's like, God's will be done. I mean, he's okay. He didn't back away.

[Zach]

Yeah. So you say, well, what does this have to do with David? Because, I mean, if you're not familiar and you didn't listen to the lecture, you went, wow, I thought we were talking about David. Well, we're setting the stage for David, because what's going to happen is. Well, what happens here in the first four chapters is when the Ark of the Covenant gets stolen by the Philistines. And then we'll talk about that later. But when the news comes back to Eli, he's like, his kids are already dead. And he's more concerned, though, about the loss of the Ark of the Covenant. And so he. He falls back and breaks his neck, which I'm like, man, it's such a horrible, like, tragic way to go, you know? What I mean, but Samuel is going to take his place. And then Samuel later on will be the one that goes and essentially facilitates Saul becoming the first king of Israel. And then David comes in to soothe Saul, but Samuel also picks him, and then David becomes the second king. So that's the. So we're just going to go through that lineage. But right now, we're just in that first part. So if you're wondering what it has to do with David, it has everything to do with David. We're just setting the stage here.

[Willie]

There was another thought that I wanted to bring out and get you guys to get your take on. It was this idea about confrontation, because we just talked about, you know, young Samuel getting this message and then confronting Eli, who is his mentor now and still is the judge over Israel. I mean, even though he's lost his capacity to do it in name, at least, he's still there. And even before that, remember, the elders come and they confront Eli about his kids. So there's a couple of different stories here where there's confrontation that takes place. And by the way, make sure and go to unashamedforhillsdale.com to sign up for this course. It's no cost. We're loving it. You're going to enjoy it. It goes right along with what we're talking about on the podcast. But. So they come to him and they say, you know, your children are terrible. Here's what they're doing. There's this confrontation that happens. And I just wonder what you guys thought about that. Like, so many times. It's. It's hard to have a hard conversation about truth and behavior or something that you. Maybe you're falling short in. And, you know, who's going to love you enough to have that conversation? Because it's not easy when you have a confrontational conversation. Zach, I couldn't help but think about. I mean, my dad had that conversation with me when I was 16. It did not go well, you know, because I wasn't ready to listen. But it was interesting because Zach's mom had a similar conversation with. With a pastor in tow with dad that did not go well because he wasn't ready, you know, and you see that here. You see this idea. You've got to be ready to, like, say, okay, I'm going to go all in. And then, Zach, you and Jeff, there was a conversation I had with you guys when you are in college, you know, by Willie to first to Jeff and their family, and then later Zach's family to him. Same thing. But they were ready. And so it's just kind of interesting. Like, how do you know when to have that conversation? Like when you see somebody heading, do you, what do you try to get in there early before it gets bad? Are you trying to wait to see how it plays out? I mean, how do you determine when is the place where hopefully we can provide some fork in the road for somebody that says where you're heading is terrible. You know, this is going to be a bad thing if you keep going on the course that you're on. And I just think it's part of our role and responsibilities, not just for our kids, it's for anybody that we love and care about. Right. I mean, Zach had turned us around. Right.

[Zach]

Turned me around for sure. I think as a father, I think your role as a father is to continue to push your kids and to confront them. I don't think it's a one time thing. I think it's a spirit of confrontation and calling them to confession. Eli's sin was that he did not restrain his own children. It's one of the arguments that, like, you know, this big faith fad right now with what's called gentle parenting. I don't, I hope you guys don't do that. Y' all might do it. If you do. I think you should do it.

[Willie]

If you do it, then you just got confronted by Zach.

[Christian]

This is a confrontation right now.

[Zach]

This is a confrontation. I mean, but you got, you have to restrain your, your, your children because what you're doing is you're actually teaching them that there are boundaries that exist, that. And so what you're doing as a parent is you're, you're doing that in a, in a, an environment that's controlled, while you can still kind of control what's outside the boundaries. So that when they do go outside of it, it's not horrible. In this case, I mean, this got so bad with Eli's kids that they were just, they were in positions of power and authority and then they were using that to abuse God's kingdom and God's people and God's church, you know, Israel. And so it got so bad that, I mean, the only answer was calamity in the end. And so I think that we, I think a father should lead in confrontation.

[John Luke]

Yeah, for sure. And I think most confrontations too, you know, at least for me. And even like, you know, with Phil talking to you when you're 16, I think confrontation laced with the humility and the transparency of, hey, I see where you're going I've been in that position before, you know, and I think for me, when I was going down that path, I had people telling me not to do it, not to do it, rather than, hey, don't do this because I've been in your position. This is where it led me. So I never. My confrontation was never met with like a personal. This is why you don't want to go down this path. It was. And that's why I didn't have the ears to hear it, because it was. It was always, this is. This is not what this. You should not be doing this. You know, X, Y and Z. So for you with Phil, it was like, hey, I know where this leads. I know this is not what you want. And I think the confrontation. Confrontation. For the sake of confrontation, it's necessary. But I think if you can intertwine it with that humility and the transparency of, look, I've been in your position. So even for Eli, if he's talking to his son, hey, when I was your age, I used to maybe want more power or I used to do these things, but I. This is not where you want to be. And. And kind of having that more figuratively role rather than just for the sake of confrontation. So.

[Willie]

Yeah, or just start quoting Leviticus or, you know, giving us some book, chapter, verse. Yeah. Because it's. The realities are it ultimately led to their destruction. And I mean, you guys got young kids, so everything you do is put guardrails up to try to make sure, you know, they don't get seriously hurt. They don't, you know, bad things don't happen to them. And so that continues on into their. When they become adults, when they become Christians. I mean, you're still having that. You're the guy and your wives are the. Or the gal that try to make sure that the guardrails are there that keep them from making catastrophic mistakes. Because that's what we're talking about here. These guys wound up dead.

[John Luke]

Yeah.

[Zach]

Because that's what scared me about. Like, I'll be honest, when I was reading this and listening to the lecture on it kind of was one of those moments I was like, ooh, this kind of scares me.

[Willie]

Yeah.

[Zach]

Because Eli was not a horrible villain.

[Willie]

He wasn't.

[Zach]

I mean, he wasn't a villain. In fact, you think when. When the verdict was cast down and Samuel's like, this is what's going to happen. You know, he's like, all right, I submit to it. And so you see his faithfulness, but you also see. So that was the Scary part is like, man, I want to be faithful. But I think the encouraging part of this lecture for me, and I wanted to say this is when he talked about David, which he doesn't really get into a whole lot about David in this particular lecture, but he says that the main characteristic of David was that he was a man of repentance. He was a man of repentance. And I thought about that, that framework. And like, basically it's like you're gonna just. It's like basically try hard, you know, try to try to do what's right. And then when you don't repent. And that was pretty much David. I mean, he just. And, and, and that. And God said, that's a man after my own heart. And I think it was that, that spirit of repentance that David continued to embody over and over. And look, was he a great guy? No. He made a lot of mistakes, but he was repentant. And I think that's the key.

[Christian]

Yeah. I had to note on this, this reading through the Bible that we've been doing through Genesis and Exodus. And now the thing that's been hopeful to me or encouraging to me is how many times God warns them, gives before he causes a destruction or gives them the opportunity to repent. Because I think that that was one of my notes on Eli. Here is one of the discussion questions from the class is what could Eli have done differently regarding his sons? And we've already said have that conversation, but God actually told him, gave him an opportunity to do that. In chapter two, when the man of God or the elders came in and confronted him about the sons, I think that prophecy or that prompting from God was God telling Eli, look, I'm giving you a chance. Do something about your sons, make it happen. And then he doesn't. And so in the next chapter, some time has passed, and then Samuel gives that prophecy. And I feel like that's God saying, not just talking to Eli, but talking to us and saying specifically, I gave Eli a chance. He didn't hear the warning. Now this is what's going to happen. Like the prophecy that what I told you was going to happen in chapter two is now happening right now. Because you did not heed my warning the first time.

[Willie]

Yeah. And even for him, I thought the tragedy was here. He was 98 years old. He's at the end of his life, and he has given his life in service to God. And he definitely has made mistakes. He definitely should have done more to restrain his children. But his death was directly caused by grief because of what happened. I mean, he fell out of that chair and he broke his neck because of the words. He got hurt. And just think about how sad that is that the last word you would hear on earth is that you lost your sons and that the presence of God had now left your country and everything that you had spent your whole life leading and trying to do better. And so it is. It was a very tragic tale, but it's also hopeful in the sense that God was faithful and does give us an opportunity to do the right thing. And it's just really a question of whether we're going to step up and do it or not. Which, again, I took it as a real challenge for me because now I'm in a more patriarchal role than you guys are. But even at the beginning where you guys are, I mean, it's so important to provide that community for your kids. You know, try to put as many things in their lives as you can do possible to make sure that they stay on a pathway, at least where they have an opportunity. They don't have to choose one day, but you just want them to make the right choice. So remember, join us every Friday. Unashamed Academy Powered by Hillsdale College. Unashamedforhillsdale.com is where we are. Zach, you want to say anything to wrap us up?

[Zach]

It's free. You can take the course for free and take it with us.

[Willie]

Leave it to Zach to recognize the free.

[John Luke]

I've truly learned so much from taking this course.

[Willie]

It's really good.

[Christian]

Yeah, I have to.

[John Luke]

Not only have I learned material, but even just helpful ways of reading the Bible that I haven't, you know, thought about in the past.

[Willie]

Yeah, I think you're going to love it, so we encourage you to do it. Thanks for joining us for the ride. We'll see you next time. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.