Ep 1221 | Uncle Si Refuses to Let a Long-Lost Sister Walk Away from God & What Is Faith?

Summary

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Unashamed with the Robertson Family

Ep 1221 | Uncle Si Refuses to Let a Long-Lost Sister Walk Away from God & What Is Faith?

Date: December 3, 2025
Host: Tread Lively
Guests: Al Robertson, S.I. (Seth) Butler, James Robertson, Philip McMillan

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Episode Overview

This episode of "Unashamed" dives deep into themes of faith, family, and spiritual legacy. The Robertsons circle around a moving, true story: Philip McMillan's reconnection with his long-lost sister Kim, their emotional journey, and her embrace of faith after decades apart—all sparked by relentless pursuit and the power of connection, forgiveness, and the gospel. The conversation naturally expands to the meaning of faith, the significance of spiritual family, and the nature of Jesus’ mission, as the Robertsons reflect on key biblical passages and personal experiences.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Philip McMillan's Family Story: A Lost and Found Sister

• Backstory and Reconnection

  • Philip recounts how, twenty years ago, his sister Kim found him unexpectedly. After meeting only briefly, they lost touch for two decades.
  • Recently, after several failed attempts to reconnect, Philip received a Facebook message from Kim, which led to them meeting again and rekindling a sibling bond.
  • Quote: "She cries a lot...she's emotional. But I just said, I'm glad to know that I have a relationship with this person now who's been my sister all this time, but I didn't know." – Philip McMillan [09:13]

• Spiritual Connection and Conversion

  • The family’s DNA was discussed as more than physical—a spiritual connection that drew them together despite years apart.
  • Kim expressed longing for the joy she'd witnessed in Philip's life, leading her to learn about and then accept the Gospel.
  • The journey culminated in Kim being baptized by Philip.
    • Quote: "She said, 'I believe this, and there's been an emptiness inside of me that I need to feel.'" – Philip McMillan [09:42]
    • Quote: "She came to the building on Sunday. We went down, talked for a little while. She went down front. She confessed Jesus as lord and was baptized on Sunday." – Philip McMillan [12:10]
    • Memorable Encouragement from Uncle Si:
      "What are you waiting for? You've been searching for this your whole life, and now you found it. You're like a mule, backing up." – Uncle Si [10:57]

2. What is Faith? A Biblical Exploration

• Faith Beyond Definition
  • The crew discusses Hebrews 11:6 and Romans 4:17—faith seen as trusting in what cannot be seen and believing in God’s promises beyond material reality.
    • Quote: "[Faith is] being sure of what we hope for or certain...the evidence of things not seen." – James Robertson [16:45]
  • They highlight Abraham's faith, who trusted God's promise to raise Isaac, believing in the unseen.
• Courtroom Imagery and Faith
  • The Book of John is explored as having a courtroom feel: “It’s a trial jargon...this is the verdict...Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness.” – Al Robertson [17:55]

3. Forever Family & Spiritual Legacy

• Family as Core Theme

  • The episode is part of the "Forever Family" series, using Acts 2 as a blueprint for spiritual community across generations.
  • Stories intersect personal family with biblical family, showing the gospel’s power to transform and unite.

• Testimonies of Faith’s Ripple Effect

  • Al shares an impactful story of a man whose life changed a decade after watching a gospel video—underscoring how legacies of faith reach far beyond their initial moment.
    • Quote: "Dad's been gone now, almost a year, but he's still breaking through." – Al Robertson [13:20]

4. Human Longing, the Holy Spirit, and True Fulfillment

• Longing and Searching
  • Referencing U2's "I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For," the group discusses human yearning for something deeper, concluding only faith and the Holy Spirit can fill that void.
    • Quote: "If you hadn't found it through this and through what Christ did, you ain't ever gonna find [it]." – Philip McMillan [22:56]
• The Fruit of the Spirit
  • Uncle Si links Kim’s spiritual search to “the untouchable”—joy, peace, and other fruits of the Spirit, which are experienced but unseen.
    • Quote: "What she was searching for is the fruit of the Holy Spirit. Joy, peace, things that I call them the untouchable. And back to faith. You can’t see them, but you can see the result and you can feel the result." – S.I. (Seth) Butler [23:02]

5. Living Faith Out in Real Life

• Beyond the Law: Jesus and the Spirit
  • Discussions focus on how Jesus fulfilled the law by offering something more—a presence within (the Holy Spirit)—enabling believers to endure uncertainty, pain, and life’s unpredictability.
    • Quote: "If your focus is on Jesus and his presence in you, all of a sudden, even though you’re still going to experience fear, anxiety, worry, doubt...there’s a presence inside of me that I’m focused on that’s going to turn all those negative emotions...to faith." – James Robertson [27:59]

6. Jesus’ Power and Sacrifice

• Reflections on Christ’s Crucifixion
  • A significant portion is devoted to the emotions stirred by Jesus’ self-sacrifice, his suffering, and the injustice he endured—emphasizing forgiveness even for his executioners.
    • Quote: "When he was hanging on the cross, dying, he’s forgiven: 'Father, they don’t know what they’re doing.'" – S.I. (Seth) Butler [53:55]
  • The vast contrast between Christ’s authority as creator and his willingness to submit to suffering out of love is discussed at length.
    • Quote: "You have no idea the power Christ had...he could have done them in right there." – Philip McMillan [54:03]
    • Quote: "With just one thought and you’re burnt to a crisp." – S.I. (Seth) Butler [54:57]

7. Living in the Tension: Kingdom Citizens in the World

• Navigating Earthly Challenges

  • Al relates Jesus’ example of paying taxes (Matthew 17) with a coin from a fish’s mouth to living responsibly in the world, despite being part of a greater kingdom.
    • Quote: "Even though we understand larger than the world, we still have to live in this world. Trust me, every April 15th, I have the same feeling like, ugh...but you know what, Jesus showed me the example..." – Al Robertson [49:45]

• Earthly Power, Authority, and God’s Sovereignty

  • The team discusses Pilate’s limited authority, with Jesus reminding him that all power is allowed from above (John 19), and the ongoing folly of human governance.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Uncle Si’s Unyielding Encouragement [10:57]
  "You’ve been searching for this your whole life, and now you found it. You’re like a mule, backing up."

• On Spiritual DNA and Family [09:24]
  "There’s something there because we both share that DNA...and you feel it. You know it." – Al Robertson

• On Faith as Evidence of the Unseen [16:45]
  "There’s evidence of things I can’t see—which kind of turns on its head a courtroom setting..." – James Robertson

• On Seeking the Intangible [23:02]
  "What she was searching for is the fruit of the Holy Spirit...you can’t see them, but you...feel the result." – Uncle Si

• On True Treasure [37:21]
  "You was worried about a dollar bill, and I was giving you the keys to the kingdom of God." – Uncle Si

• On Christ’s Forgiveness [53:55]
  "When he was hanging on the cross, dying, you know, he’s forgiven: Father, they don’t know what they’re doing."

• On the Enduring Mission [58:04]
  "The human race is never going to learn. That's why we got a job job today." – James Robertson

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Episode Timeline

• [02:50] – S.I. Butler introduces the central study: contemplating the last day of Christ’s life.
• [04:00] – Philip McMillan shares his gratitude for spiritual mentoring and recounts the “lost sister” story.
• [07:10] – Kim’s sudden loss of contact, decades apart, and the moving journey to reconnection.
• [09:42] – The spiritual moment: sharing the gospel with Kim and her decision.
• [10:47] – Uncle Si’s direct call: "What are you waiting for?"
• [12:26] – Kim’s baptism by Philip and the emotional significance.
• [13:20] – Al Robertson: Legacy, faith stories, and “Forever Family” theme.
• [16:15] – Romans 4 and Hebrews 11: exploring the nature and logic-defying reality of faith.
• [22:42] – Cultural references: U2’s song as a metaphor for spiritual searching.
• [27:59] – James discusses how the presence of Jesus/Spirit transforms negative emotions.
• [36:00] – Jesus, the coin, and taxes: lessons on material security and living as dual citizens.
• [39:19] – Al and Si parallel Jesus on the cross and the thieves' responses.
• [46:46] – Faith is about believing beyond what the earth has to offer.
• [53:43] – The crew wrestles with the depth of Jesus' suffering, love, and the nature of true power.
• [56:46] – On earthly authority and God’s sovereignty amid politics and protest.
• [58:04-end] – Reflecting on humanity’s failure to “learn”—and why the faith mission continues.

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Tone and Style

• Authentic & Country-Warm: The conversational, good-natured banter characteristic of the Robertsons remains: down-home wisdom, laughter, and gentle ribbing.
• Intensely Personal: The story of Philip and Kim is told with vulnerability and deep emotion.
• Biblically Anchored: Every topic circles back to scripture, faith, and living it out.
• Urgent & Encouraging: The hosts and guests place urgency on sharing the gospel and helping listeners see their purpose in God’s story.

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Final Takeaways

This episode powerfully intertwines family restoration and spiritual renewal, demonstrating how God’s legacy extends through generations and unexpected reunions. The Robertsons openly wrestle with the challenges of faith—its mystery, its evidence, and its call to live as a “forever family” rooted in Christ, not only for themselves but for anyone willing to take that step, no matter how long it takes.

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Transcript

[Podcast Host]

So by 2050, more than a third of the world's young people will live in Africa, While less than 4% will live here in North America. So entire nations will be shaped by the children who are growing up today. And our friends at Tomorrow Clubs are stepping in to ensure that that next generation in Zimbabwe that they are discipled by the church and not the world. So today we're helping them focus on one of their greatest opportunities. It's called the Binga district. It's one of the most isolated and disadvantaged regions in Zimbabwe. Before Tomorrow Clubs arrived, Binga had virtually no kids ministry at all. And now local churches are discipling thousands of children every single week. 40 more villages are asking for Tomorrow Clubs support. And we want to help them reach 5,000 kids in these villages before the end of the year. And you could be a part of that. You can be a part of shaping the church of tomorrow. And in this forgotten corner of the world, what they're doing aligns perfectly with what we believe here at the Unashamed podcast, which is long term discipleship relationships, partnering with local churches and raising up the next generation in faith. So a hundred bucks trains a tomorrow club leader. 250 bucks covers a one time setup cost to equip a local church. And if God places it on your heart, you can actually sponsor an entire community for $2,000, which will launch and sustain the ministry in a new community for an entire year. Any amount will help. Every gift is matched for a limited time, doubling your impact. So join the [e-mail] Unashamed that's TomorrowClubs.org.

[Al Robertson]

Unashamed so no matter how you slice it, we're definitely in a divided time in our country. There's no way around it. We see it every single day and watch the news. And so I think in this time of division, we have to have consistency that speaking into the values that we believe in. One of our good friends, Tony Perkins, heads up an organization called Family Research Council. As a Louisiana guy, he's a pastor, he has our heart for Jesus. He even did a blurb in dad's book, Theft America's Soul. And it's just been there for us as a family and but also as a nation. So FRC is standing for what's right. They defend faith, they protect families, they remind leaders that biblical truth still matters. So when others compromise, our friends at FRC stand firm. Because if we lose our foundation, we lose the soul of our nation. Unashamed nation. You guys can help out FRC by defending what matters most by visiting FRC.org unashamed to learn more. Check them out.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

I am unashamed. What about you?

Look, I want to, you know, set the stage for today's study. First, we're going to go back in time. We're going back in human history, and we're going to take a look at the last day of the life and death of a human being. Amen. And since that day, the world has never been the same.

[James Robertson]

I actually agree with.

[Al Robertson]

I could not agree more. S bringing it today.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

Well, no, because moving over from junior.

[Al Robertson]

Podcast to the big table and watch it out.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

Well, yo, when I come up here, since I'm with Bible scholars, I got to do my homework.

[Al Robertson]

And we got, by the way, if you're listening, obviously s in the house because he led for us today. Philip McMillan is here, one of our favorites. Philip, welcome back. You have been on Unashamed in a while.

[Philip McMillan]

Yeah, it's been a while, Al, since I've been.

[Al Robertson]

We are always glad to have you. And you, before we get into this Bible study that SAI has set us up for, you were telling me a story before we got going that you've got to tell our audience because it's fascinating and it's the whole reason we're doing what we're doing. I mean, in this study.

[Philip McMillan]

Absolutely.

[Al Robertson]

Tell me that story.

[Philip McMillan]

So I'll start off with, I'm thankful for Phil and his life and Ms. K and his willingness to teach his children about the gospel because Jace was able to share it with me. And then my girlfriend and now my wife for 35 years. And all my children have heard it and my family members. And so they have got a reputation. They know if I come in, I'm going to be talking about Jesus. They know that. Right. And I learned that from Phil. And also me and Jason went on a wild run of about 200 people that we shared the gospel with.

[Al Robertson]

You know, you were one of the early. We've talked about the list many times on the podcast.

[James Robertson]

We had a list.

[Al Robertson]

You were one of the early ones on the list, which made you then one of the early entourage for Jays.

[James Robertson]

Well, I had a list and then. But then my best friend from high school, Blake, which was a friend of yours.

[Philip McMillan]

Right.

[James Robertson]

And I didn't know y' all knew each other. He had a list. And so we were going to a guy who was on the list.

And Philip was sitting in this little sports car on the side of the road. That's where I met you. We Basically picked a hitchhiker up and he never left.

[Al Robertson]

You're the hitchhiker? Never.

[Philip McMillan]

I just been hanging out.

[Al Robertson]

We had a Jason.

[James Robertson]

I had.

[Al Robertson]

We didn't know it at the time. We didn't know what the Almighty was doing because we were just going where we felt led. So we went to school, which you later went to the same school we did. And when we got out, we kind of took, you know, divergent trails because I went to work for the church. Jay's kind of just stayed on his, like, evangelistic track, reaching people. We're back to Del Commander. But we had kind of a two pronged approach because Lisa and I were more kind of that fill in the gap. We did. We did premarital counseling with you guys.

[Philip McMillan]

Oh, yeah. Yeah, y'. All. And Kellett.

[Al Robertson]

And Kellett. And then we all did your wedding. And then we kind of. That was our role. We were the walk alongside couple. And you and Jason. Others were kind of the point of the story.

[Philip McMillan]

And I'll never forget that because I'll be eternally grateful for everything that anybody's ever poured into me. And the wildest thing has happened in my Life recently. So 20 years ago, I get a call and my buddy Blake says, hey, somebody wants to meet you. I was like, okay. So we go to this place, and it's a girl and a tall guy. Everybody's tall to me. Sigh. But they come out and she says, hey, I'm Kim. I'm your sister. And I just.

[Al Robertson]

I was just like, wait a minute. Yeah, this is funny. You knew about the two brothers. You never heard about a sister at this point?

[Philip McMillan]

No, no. I mean. And this was 20 years ago. And so I was like, okay. So I walked up to her and she started crying. She cries a lot.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

And.

[Philip McMillan]

And she was like, you're my brother. We've got the same dad. And I was just shocked. So we talked for a while and we built a relationship. And I mean, I feel like I'm easy to get along with. Sai may not think so. We've been together for 20 years, but. But, you know, it was. It was strange. So I rode to my dad's house and I walked in and I said, rip, you got anything you want to tell me? He was like, about what I said about my sister? And he was like, oh, yeah, yeah, that's true.

[James Robertson]

Oh, wow.

[Philip McMillan]

I was like, wow. So we talked for a while, and I called her. We stayed in touch for two days, and we talked a lot, and it was really good. I thought it was Great. But she moved away and I didn't. I never saw her again. Her phone was off. I couldn't get in touch with her. Didn't know how to. And 20 years goes by and she sends me something on Facebook. And only reason I use Facebook is to put all size junk on there. But I don't even check the message part. So I checked it and it was her saying, I'd like to get to know you. So I responded nothing. Responded nothing. I sent her pictures of me inside all the events we've gone to. Just like, hey, you know, call me.

[Al Robertson]

Love to see you now. You're quite a famous person.

[James Robertson]

Well, no, you are basically size butler.

[Al Robertson]

Yeah.

[Philip McMillan]

You know, I hate to hear it that way, but. So, yeah, I'm sized. Do it all. I mean, I got a million stories about that. But anyway, so I'm sending her all these pictures for two years and never hear back from her. And so we actually attend church services with her real brother that I didn't know until David Bromley told me who he was.

[Al Robertson]

So that was just a happenstance that he happened to be there at church.

[Philip McMillan]

And so I got her number from him and called her and just tears cried, you know, and she was like, I couldn't get in touch with you. I don't have an account to get back into my Facebook. And I was like, wow. And so we got together and met, and she's awesome. She's wonderful. She's super smart. She cries a lot. She's emotional.

[Al Robertson]

Like me.

[James Robertson]

This is, like, up to date now.

[Philip McMillan]

This is up to date.

[James Robertson]

Like a week ago.

[Philip McMillan]

Yeah, this was like three weeks ago.

[James Robertson]

Three weeks ago.

[Philip McMillan]

And so maybe a month ago. And so we get together and we talk and we spend some time together. She comes over, she hangs out with us, with me and Alicia. We all go get our nails done, which is something. That was pretty funny. But she just. She called me and she said, just.

[Al Robertson]

One of the gals.

[Philip McMillan]

I mean, yeah, I mean, whatever, taking.

[James Robertson]

It from the team.

[Philip McMillan]

But I just said, I'm glad to know that I have a relationship with this person now who's been my sister all this time. But I didn't know. And.

[Al Robertson]

And you feel something, too. Let me interject at the DNA level, right, that's the way I was with Phyllis. Like, even though I didn't know her and I hadn't. Didn't grow up with her, there's something there because we both share that DNA side. That's a lot about DNA. It's in there strong. It's something there. And you feel it. You know it.

[Philip McMillan]

I do. I do, yeah. And. And so she said, I don't know where all this joy comes from, but I want to know. And I said, I can't wait to tell you, to show you. So me and Alicia shared the gospel with her. And we fired up the grill and ate good, and we heard the good message about Jesus. And she said, I believe this in tears. And she said, I believe this, and there's been an emptiness inside of me that I need to feel. And I thought about Hebrews 11:6. Without faith, it's impossible to please God, because those who come to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek Him. And she was earnestly seeking him. So me and sigh, we go off out of town for a week, and, you know, I didn't hear from her for a few days, and I was. I was down. I was like, I just don't understand, you know? I don't know.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

I know he was telling me the story, and I said, well, what's her hold up? Yeah, what's she balking for? Right? When he brought her down, son, he introduced her to me. I said, darling, you've been searching for something, and you say you found it. What are you waiting for?

[Al Robertson]

It's time to move.

[James Robertson]

That's. That's a verse.

[Al Robertson]

What are you waiting for?

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

No, no, you know, I said, what are you waiting for? You've been searching for this your whole.

[Al Robertson]

Life, and now you found it.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

You're. Now you're like a mule. You're backing up.

[James Robertson]

I never call a woman a mule, but that's okay. I get your point.

[Al Robertson]

It was accurate, but.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

Yeah, but it is. She said. She said, well, no, I'm through, but. I'm through. Balkan.

[Philip McMillan]

Yeah.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

So she said, well, hey, this would be the best thing you've ever done in your life.

[Al Robertson]

But so good though, Sack, because sometimes people do get to the edge of that place. And look, she's obviously probably been here off and on for many, many years, but you have nudge that by saying, you don't have to wait anymore. Just go ahead and take that step. You know? I love that.

[Philip McMillan]

Yeah. And so. And so she. The weirdest thing is, my older brother was like, hey. When I saw him, and we haven't even talked about this yet. And he said, hey, do you have Kim's number from 20 years ago when I told him who she was? I haven't talked to him about it. He just asked me before I could tell him, do you have her Number I'd kind of like to get to know her. And my eyes started tearing up and I said.

I've got a lot of.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

Stuff to tell you. No, no. Because that's what I was saying about DNA.

[Philip McMillan]

Yeah. He knew it.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

Okay.

[Al Robertson]

You feel something.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

Ok. Okay. You can't explain it. Okay. Because that's the same way with Phyllis.

[Al Robertson]

Yeah.

[Philip McMillan]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. And. And, and me and Kim automatically just are drawn together, you know, I can't explain that. But she. She came to the building on Sunday. We went down, talk for a little while. She went down front. She confessed Jesus as lord and was baptized on Sunday.

[Al Robertson]

By you.

[Philip McMillan]

By me. She was like, will you do it?

[Al Robertson]

And I was like, that's so good.

[Philip McMillan]

Yep.

[Al Robertson]

That's so good.

[Philip McMillan]

Yeah.

[Al Robertson]

So good. So, you know, family becomes such a theme for everything, and we see it in the scripture as well. And I. And I want to give a little shout out to the Family Research Council, some guys in D.C. tony Perkins is the leader of it. He's a Louisiana guy, he's a pastor. Amazing organization. They stand firm. They defend faith, family and freedom on the front lines. But they can't do it alone. They need us believers standing shoulder to shoulder with them or we risk losing what generations before us fought to protect. So we want you guys to check them out, help them out, be a supporter, give [e-mail] unashamed, that's family research Council. Check them out.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

The story and the legacy continue.

[Philip McMillan]

And this is what it's all about. This is why, you know, he did what he did.

[Al Robertson]

We're in a series now called Forever Family, and it's based out of Acts 2 and the idea of after all these years. Which brings us back to what we're talking about today. The story of Jesus still impacts. I told a story Monday about a guy that watched a video that dad did 10 years ago this past weekend and came to Christ because of the video that dad did. And his wife had been trying to get him to come church. He wouldn't come church. I don't think to do with all that. And then dad broke through. I mean, Dad's been gone now, you know, almost a year, but he's still breaking through. Yeah. And this guy came to Christ. His wife was nine months pregnant. He went. He went this past Sunday over in the Dallas area, got baptized, got married because they were living together and then had their baby daughter. Yeah, exactly. Made the whole thing. Right. And so that's why I'm saying the story, you set it up perfectly. It's the it's the greatest thing that's ever happened to humanity.

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[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

Right.

[James Robertson]

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[Al Robertson]

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[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

There'S nothing that. There's nothing that's ever going to happen. That. That is as earth shattering. Right. As his death. Burial.

[Philip McMillan]

And the greatest thing about this is even though we weren't together our whole lives, God has brought us together. And Chase has been sharing some scripture with me in Romans. But God calls things as if they weren't, as though they were. And I shared that with my sister Kim.

[Al Robertson]

Yeah.

[James Robertson]

Romans 4:17. Well, you knelt down. That was a couple Sundays ago. And you were telling me some of this story.

[Philip McMillan]

Yeah.

[James Robertson]

And I had just been reading with that. I actually found that verse because I was arguing with a hard head.

[Philip McMillan]

Was it sign.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

It wasn't me that time. It wasn't me.

[Al Robertson]

Well, size not the only.

[James Robertson]

Can I say that?

[Philip McMillan]

Not in this family.

[James Robertson]

I say that loving with comedy.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. And love.

[James Robertson]

And my. Because some of these things that we just say words that we say, like you quoted Hebrews 11:6. It's real hard to wrap your head around on exactly what faith is. I mean, we know the word and you can Give the definition. It's, you know, being sure of what we hope for or certain or the evidence. Because that verse, when you kind of look at the original language, it's kind of hard to define of things as the evidence of things not seen. Well, you just kind of, kind of stop and think about what does that exactly mean? There's evidence of things I can't see, which kind of turns on its head. A courtroom setting. And somebody's like, look, I'm sure I have evidence. And they're like, well, where's it at? So, well, you can't see it, but I'm sure of it. And it's called faith. Well, you know, that's probably not going to go well in our earthly material. I believe what I see.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

Well, that's not going to go over very good in the courtroom either.

[James Robertson]

But isn't it funny that even the Book of John is written in kind of a courtroom?

[Al Robertson]

It's a trial jargon.

[James Robertson]

It's like, this is the verdict, which is the same word for judgment. But the translators put, oh, that's verdict. Because it's the courtroom text. Light has come into the world, but men love darkness, so they don't want to come into the light. And so you see all this through faith. So that Romans 4:17, talking about the difference in living in faith, whatever that is, as best we can wrap our head around it, or under the law that the Jews had. And he makes this statement in comparison in Romans 4:17. I have to get my glasses on because I can't see, but I believe. I'm sure it's there through faith. He says, I want to read this because I've been on this for about three weeks as it is written. I have made you a father of many nations. Because he was talking about Abraham. Because think about it. He, in Hebrews 11 discusses that Abraham reasoned that God could raise the dead because God asked him to sacrifice his son, who through that generation, speaking of generations and offspring and DNA.

There would be generations of all people that would be blessed. Well, then God says, well, go sacrifice him. So here's Abraham through faith. He literally believed in something that was not believable.

[Al Robertson]

Right? Jesus hadn't been raised yet against all hope.

[James Robertson]

How does a guy reason into things? And I'm using the word reason on purpose. He's reasoned that, okay, I got to trust God and he's asking me to sacrifice my son. So let's walk up to him, which.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

Is something that was. That's unthinkable.

[James Robertson]

It's unthinkable. You talking about faith? Yeah, he concluded and he came up with a little slogan that caught on, which is because his son is saying, well, where? If we're going to do a sacrifice, where is the sacrifice?

[Philip McMillan]

Yeah, you're it.

[James Robertson]

And he's like, well, he just said the Lord will provide.

But that is faith acting out. So just now that I've given the context of that, he says he is a father in the sight of God, Father of faith in whom he believed. And then it has this statement, the God who gives life to the dead and calls things that are not as they are, as they are, or as they were, he calls things into being. There's another translation that are not. So that's kind of what faith is. And you fast forward that and you say, well, what does it mean to have faith? Well, it's just like what you experience. You have a sister that you knew nothing about and now you have a sister. Sister. Yeah, that's right, a double sister. And it's been called into being through something you could never really see or figure out, but through the same resurrection and death on a cross that God provided that unites people and makes them into a forever family.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

And the part like you was talking about is hard to believe is like he had nothing to do with it and had no knowledge of it. Philip did. Right.

[Al Robertson]

That's why the verse was at first, Peter, always be prepared to give an answer for the reason for the hope we have. You never know when that moment comes.

[James Robertson]

Well, the first part of that says, but in your heart, set apart Christ as Lord, which is the key catalyst for being prepared to give an answer.

[Al Robertson]

That's exactly right.

[James Robertson]

Which is why we speak about Jesus. And I was talking about, you know, this hard head that I was talking about, which I'm thankful for because it makes me study and realize that. Because we tend to make everything just about morality, you know, well, I need to do better, clean my life up. And Jesus, the message of Jesus just boils down to have a better life, you know, morally, which is provided there. We have a reason, but it's way more than that. You now have an answer or something to give. Someone who's just bumbling around through life didn't choose to be here. You know, we believe God made you and now here's the reason that you're here.

[Philip McMillan]

Absolutely.

[James Robertson]

You introduced to Jesus, now you have an answer not only for your life, but for life itself.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

Yeah, well, when you said stumble around, you're just being. You have no purpose.

[James Robertson]

That's exactly right.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

God didn't make anything without a purpose.

[James Robertson]

Us.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

Okay.

[Al Robertson]

That's right.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

Yeah.

[Philip McMillan]

There's a YouTube, a you2 song that I used to listen to when I was younger. I still haven't found what I'm looking for.

[Al Robertson]

You brought this up recently, did y'?

[James Robertson]

All. We've been going through rock and roll songs, resurfacing.

[Philip McMillan]

I. I come to the conclusion if you hadn't found it through this and through what Christ did, you ain't ever.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

Going to find was like, Kim, she was searching. Okay. And what she was searching for is the fruit of the Holy Spirit.

[Philip McMillan]

Yeah.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

Joy, peace, things that I call them the untouchable. And back to faith. You can't see them, but you can see the result and you can feel the result of it.

[Al Robertson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

So it's there, but, you know, it's like faith. How do you really. How do you tell me a definition of you really can't.

[James Robertson]

Very hard to wrap your head around. But when you. When I. I heard something not too long ago that I thought was profound, because in this difference in trying to live under a written law versus which.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

You never can do, which you can't do perfectly, you can't pull off.

[James Robertson]

And then that's why you figure out why Jesus started with that sermon on the Mount. Because all of a sudden he's using another phrase that's hard to wrap your head around when he says, look, now, I didn't come to abolish the law. I came to fulfilling. Everybody's like, yeah, what does fulfill mean? But. And meanwhile, he's also. Also introducing a coming kingdom. And when asked about that, he's like, well, you won't say, here it is or there it is. Like, you can point to it. It's among you.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

Yeah. It's not of this world.

[James Robertson]

That's Luke 17, 20 and 21. It's in your midst. And so then when he promises this Holy Spirit, and you're like, well, how do I see that or receive that? I mean, it's hard to wrap your head around. But you just think about it. You're still going to have all these emotions because we're emotional beings. And it's hard to interject your emotions and the unpredictability of life with a written law because we get into situations where. And I'm sure they did, too, which is why they had all these amendments to the law. They're like, well, what happens if this happens? Just something. Whatever the scenarios, which happens every day. I mean, I was even driving over here, I felt like I was in a parade because I cut a bunch of brushing. How far is it extending out my truck?

[Al Robertson]

It's further than the legal limit, I'm sure.

[James Robertson]

I might try to get a red flag.

[Al Robertson]

It's like another vehicle behind Jason's vehicle.

[James Robertson]

But there's people rolling down the window blowing, blowing the horn at me. You know, what you got there? You know, it's been, hey, it's a bunch of bamboo. It created a parade, but everybody lived to tell about it. But I'm just saying things happen in life, and so you're trying to apply it, but things that happen that, that are painful or bad, all. All of a sudden you have all these emotions.

[Podcast Host]

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[James Robertson]

And they're, you know, fear or anxiety or you get, you know, you go to the doctor for a checkup and they're like, oh, sorry, we found something. And all these things flood in your mind. Well, the difference in trying to go look at the manual and seeing how I'm supposed to respond to this and what, what Jesus offered is, now you have his presence inside of you.

[Al Robertson]

That's it.

[James Robertson]

And you have four letters that show how he operated and his character and all these situations that come up. So my point about what I heard is if your focus is on Jesus and his presence in you, all of a sudden, even though you're still going to experience fear, anxiety, worry, doubt, all these things that you see, then there's something that you're like, oh, wait, wait, I have a presence inside of me that I'm focused on that's going to turn all those negative emotions in fear to faith, you know, being negative to being positive. Even though you don't see it, you're like, it's kind of like the Abraham story. Oh, I'm trusting there's some answer in God's plan that will make sense. So even though I don't see it, I'm going to trust him in this moment. And then that gives you that peace that you're talking about, that joy, despite what you're going through. And I think that's the difference in what we have in the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

Well, when you say that, I always go back to where I started this. Okay, about we're going to read about the life and death of one man. That man knew what you got to look, think of this. That man knew what everything he was going to have to go through.

And then you said it. He's present in us.

You know, so that's a powerful thing I always look at, you know, Jesus is not given enough credit for being a human being.

[James Robertson]

I agree with that, sir. And we have his spirit, you know, which. Then it gets into another thing that's hard to wrap your head around, which is this being that we follow, that we surrender to, is a community. But he's one.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

Yeah.

[James Robertson]

So that, you know what I found fascinating?

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

A big community.

[James Robertson]

I was just reading through John in preparation of this. Nothing specific, but, you know, it keeps coming up. He keeps referring to his Father, and I thought, he seems to say that a lot in the book of John. So I looked it up 140 times. 140. He's like, I'm from the Father. I only do what the Father tells me.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

Yeah, but that's what his purpose was.

[James Robertson]

Well, it was, but it just, it was, it was eye popping. I mean, you throw in another 30 in first John, and I'm like, almost half of the times Father is referenced in the New Testament is in the Book of John. And this relationship that he has, and he spent three chapters introducing that he's going to give his spirit, the Holy Spirit.

[Al Robertson]

And you're right, it's not accidental that he's using family as his point of reference for being here. I mean, he keeps putting it in a father, son and spirit, reference of community, family in the sense of three. And yet we know also they're one because of what he started out in John 1.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

Well, the unity.

[Al Robertson]

And the unity of. Exactly. Which we keep bringing that back to. I was going to say this, Phil, we mentioned, you talked about the U2 song that some of these, like, secular songs that really have spiritual themes, but how people in the world, they don't even know Christ yet, will understand that somewhere subliminally. You know, like, deep down, we were in South Africa, and this group we were with, they would sing the opening part of that song. And they were an acapella group, but. And this kid was very talented. He sounded just like Bono singing this song, you know, still haven't. And this audience was singing because everybody there knew now that most of these were not Christians, but they all knew Bono and they knew you, too. And they would be singing this song, and all of a sudden he would leave. When he got to that point, still haven't found what I'm looking for Then he would. He would go, here. Open the eyes of my heart, Lord Open the eyes of my heart I.

[Philip McMillan]

Want to see that's good.

[Al Robertson]

And all of a sudden, they didn't know the words of that, but the words are there. And they started singing along. This is to see you high and lifted up Shining in the light of your glory Pour out your power and love Holy Spirit.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

Wow.

[Al Robertson]

And then we sing Holy, Holy, Holy.

[Philip McMillan]

Now that is a good.

[Al Robertson]

It was so good. It was like he would be. And we'd see it night after night. We're doing these concerts and speaking and we would share the gospel with them, but I would watch them. Every time they're singing, they're singing. All of a sudden they just open the eyes of heart and they're like, whoa, what does this mean? Like, we just left you two and went to something else. But that's the whole deal. And unless you. Unless you're allowed to see that glimpse of what Mike can be, you won't take that step and that chance. And it's hard. It's hard to step out of something you've never known before. I mean, you know, that's to get the Holy Spirit, as you described, James, that takes a huge step of faith to do that because you don't know anything about it.

[James Robertson]

Well, especially when you're living in a world that you deem success and is acquiring as much wealth.

[Al Robertson]

Yeah.

[James Robertson]

Or property or power. That's why people are so devastated when they lose their job or.

[Al Robertson]

Right.

[James Robertson]

Because they're all.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

Yeah, but when you get right down to it, all that stuff that you're talking about acquiring for here don't mean nothing.

[Philip McMillan]

No, exactly.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

And that's. It has no. There's no power there. There's no peace, no joy. No. None of the stuff is good that comes from God. You can't get it here on this earth.

[Philip McMillan]

And si. That's a good point, because one thing that I was telling Kim is now your focus can change. Not on what you were looking for, but you found that now everything in your life, you're all forgiven. You're forgiven for everything that's happened. And so you can focus on love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness. All these things you're talking about. Your focus has got to change on him, not on yourself.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

Who sings the song. If I've got Jesus, I've got G.

[Philip McMillan]

Yeah, that's been fuller.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

Okay.

[Philip McMillan]

We met him at God behind bars that.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

He says, if I've got Jesus, okay, I've got it all.

[Philip McMillan]

Yeah.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

Then you need nothing else. Yeah.

[James Robertson]

Yeah. Your brother passed that on to us when he, you know, later in life he realized, you know, when his health started declining, he was like, yes, we did. I need a little meeting over my, you know, my finances and what's going on.

Well, I was actually surprised at how little was left. I was like, phil, where did all your money go? He's like, okay, gave it away. And he put his hands up like this.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

I had nothing to do with it.

[Al Robertson]

Yeah.

[James Robertson]

I mean, I think Phil, the amount of money he spent just on land project. But I was so kind of shocked, you know, and I thought, well, we probably should have had this conversation a little earlier. And. But Phil then quickly said, he's like, well, you can't take it with you. And he. He had a good perspective.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

Yeah.

[Al Robertson]

Not only that, you never seen a hearse on a. On a. Took to a U Haul, have you?

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

Well, not only that, okay, It. It can't make you happy. Okay. There's nothing.

I don't even know how we have desires, okay. And if you could fulfill, feel every desire you had, you would still be longing.

[Philip McMillan]

Yeah.

[James Robertson]

Yeah, exactly.

[Philip McMillan]

Still be thirsty.

[James Robertson]

Somebody told me if you can burn it up. It's not that important. And you're like, wait, what, what does that mean? Because you can't burn us up. Technically we have the Holy Spirit of God that Romans 8, 11, you know.

[Al Robertson]

Well, I was thinking about sigh with the I'm. I'm working already ahead for a Christmas Eve lesson that we're going to do here because we traditionally do a Christmas Eve service that I love and Kel and I have been doing it together for 20 years. And I was looking at those gifts, you know, that the wise men brought.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

Yeah.

[Al Robertson]

You know, back in Matthew 2 and kind of looking at the implications behind those gifts and it was interesting because the first one was gold, which is fit for a king. You know, that was the idea because it was like he deserves what is.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

A gift for a king.

[Al Robertson]

Exactly. But I thought about it from Jesus perspective. I'm sure that Mary and Joseph appreciated that. That probably got him through the lean years, got him to E. Egypt and back when they were running around from Herod. But at the same time, Jesus never put security in gold. He didn't have anything the whole time he was here. He was literally a homeless guy. He said, I don't even have a place to lay my hand. So I thought about it is as good and honoring as a gift that that was. When you think about it in terms of security versus Jesus himself, it means nothing because you can have all the gold in the world and what's it going to do for you at the end of your life?

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

I have a personal experience about that. When I went to Tulsa and spoke to the guy in jail, I preached to him and I hit a nerve. Holy Spirit picked him and he jumped up my face and here comes the deputies fixing to whoop his head, you know. And I said, guys, ho, ho, ho, ho, we're good, we're good. I said, dude, I said, I've just shared with you something that is worth more than gold and silver. I said, and then you get up in my face and said, hey, you're a TV star, you got all this money. Hire me a lawyer and get it. I said, and you brought up a dollar bill when I was sharing you with you where you will spend eternity.

[Philip McMillan]

Something money can't buy.

[Al Robertson]

That's so good.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

I said, dude, I said, one of these nights you're going to be in that six by six by yourself again.

And I said, you go, remember what this old crazy man told you. I said, you was worried about a dollar bill. Yeah. And I was giving you the keys to the kingdom of God.

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[James Robertson]

They look like jeans, but they feel like pajamas, which is awesome.

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[Al Robertson]

So, Sal, you'll appreciate this a couple of podcasts ago because we're in this text, Jesus on the cross. And what you just described was my perspective on the two thieves hanging on either side of it. Remember when they had that little discussion.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

One of them was mocking him and.

[Al Robertson]

Remember what he said? He said, I thought you were the crack. Get us out of here.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

Save us.

[Al Robertson]

Get us off of this cross. So he wanted to be saved in the moment. But then that other guy said, hey, we deserve to be here. He doesn't. And then he looked at him, said, will you take me with you to paradise? He understood the bigger picture.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

Oh, no.

[Al Robertson]

So you had two criminals hanging there. One wanted the moment and one wanted eternity. I mean, that's the difference in the Two. That's what you just described.

[James Robertson]

I have to bring this up, another illustration of this. Reading this last night, you remember in Matthew 17, where they had this guy with a demon. He had seizures. And Jesus disciples went and they couldn't heal him.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

Nobody could control him either.

[James Robertson]

Yeah, they couldn't control him. They couldn't heal him. And so they asked Jesus, and this is 17.

Verse 15.

They said, or verse 16, I brought him to your disciples, but they could not heal him. And then. So Jesus gives a little withering rebuke. He's like, how long am I going to have to put up with this unbelieving and perverse generation? Bring the boy to me. And he rebuked the demon. He came out. Well, then the disciples came to him in private and they said, why couldn't we do.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

Why couldn't we do it?

[Al Robertson]

Power Adams.

[James Robertson]

And he's like, because you have so little faith. Talking about kind of believing in the things that are not and all this. And there's a controversial verse that's left out in some where it's like, this kind can only be driven out through prayer, which is a strong statement for prayer. But then Jesus gives a little speech, and in that speech, he says that if you have the faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, move from here to there, and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you. Which is one of the most profound statements in the Bible. And the point is, it's who your faith is in and not the surroundings or the method. I think that's the bottom line.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

What you're reading right there was what I was having problem with after I done the study, after I got Phillips outline from Al.

[Al Robertson]

Yeah.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

Because I was saying, wait a minute. Why is this bothering me so much? And I think deep down, you know, because I looked at it. For 77 years, Jesus has been a. I don't even know, used the word maybe anchor in my life.

[James Robertson]

That's a good word.

[Al Robertson]

Biblical word.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

Okay. And. And I'm looking and say, wait a minute. Why is this bothering me? Reading about his. His life and death, the day. His last day on earth. Yeah. And I think it's because, hey.

That'S really the foundation of my life.

[Al Robertson]

Yeah, that's it.

[James Robertson]

Well. And it defines the love of God. It's a. It's the love of God with all this power, Creator.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

Because he was telling his disciples, your belief is not solid.

[James Robertson]

Well, look, I want to read this next verse because I think it clarifies what we're talking about. So. So he makes that statement, nothing be impossible for you. And then the next paragraph says, when they came together in Galilee, he said to him, the Son of Man is going to be betrayed into the hands of men. They will kill him, and on the third day, he will be raised to life. And here's. Here's the kicker. And the disciples were filled with grief, which is what I was saying earlier. We're emotional beings. They never got past the. They just heard him say, nothing's going to be impossible. Oh, this is exciting. We're going to take over the world.

[Al Robertson]

And then he's like mountains.

[James Robertson]

And look, the Son of Man.

[Al Robertson]

Me, he's talking about seven and third person.

[James Robertson]

I'm going to be handed over to other men and be killed, betrayed, which is worse than being killed.

[Al Robertson]

And he didn't even say it in the moment, but he by one of you, which will happen later.

[James Robertson]

Now he throws in, he's going to be raised alive. But they never got to that point. Their brain switched off because they're filled with grief, which is another emotion that comes from. They have their trust in something earthly and they're like, well, wait a minute. You're going to be betrayed. This is not our plan for you. This is not good. And to get back to the illustration about money, then the story goes to this well, after Jesus and his disciples arrived in capernaum. This is 17. It's a fascinating story. And we're all fishermen here, so I really love it. In verse 24.

The collectors of the 2 drachma tax came to Peter and asked, does your teacher pay the temple tax? So they're trying to create a scenario because since he has a movement that somehow he's in defiance to Rome and they're teaching, trying to create some.

Tension. Yes, he does, he replied. When Peter came into the house, Jesus was the first to speak. So somehow Jesus was aware of this conversation without being present. What do you think, Simon? He asked from, now listen to this question. From whom do the kings of the earth collect duty and taxes? From their children or from others?

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

Which.

[James Robertson]

It's an unusual question from others, Peter answered, because you think about it, in life, all these powerful people, they. They ain't worried about your kids paying taxes. I'm sure they'll find a loophole somewhere in there. And then.

From others, Peter answered, then the children are exempt. Jesus said to them, but so that we may not offend them, go to the lake and throw out your line. Take the first fish you catch, open.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

Its mouth and get the money, and.

[James Robertson]

You'Ll find this gold coin, a four drachma coin, take it and give it to them for my tax and yours.

[Philip McMillan]

What a story.

[James Robertson]

There's the creator of the universe. He don't have any money. He don't have a house. He's nothing materially.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

He's homeless.

[James Robertson]

But it's not that he couldn't have it. And he proved that in such an odd way that how could you even make this up?

[Al Robertson]

The question is, James, did he put, did somehow supernaturally, he put the coin in that fish's mouth or did that coin scoop the fish? Scoop up that coin. And Jesus knew.

[James Robertson]

It's the greatest, it's the greatest treasure find of all time.

[Al Robertson]

Then you could eat the fish. After you paid the tax of the.

[James Robertson]

Coin, you get the fish.

[Al Robertson]

It was a big opelous catfish.

[James Robertson]

You pay the taxes and. But he, but he's making a point here about you. You, you missed the point if you miss this question. He asked about the kingdom of God and children. He's the son of God.

[Al Robertson]

Yeah, that's a good point.

[James Robertson]

He's the son of God as the son of man. But he's like, I don't have to pay taxes. I. I'm going to be raised from the dead. Which you missed that part.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

Not only.

[James Robertson]

And money, money can't do that.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

You're talking to the creator of the.

[James Robertson]

Cosmos, but he's like, dummy, but as a son of God, we're going to pay the tax and play along with this little game.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

Be ours. Oh, I'm going to obey the law.

[James Robertson]

Yeah, I'm going to obey the law. And then he launches into a whole chapter, Matthew 18, of talking about who's the greatest in the kingdom of heaven and it's the children. Which is his whole point for telling this whole story about there's nothing impossible, but you have all these emotions and then the earth on the earth, it's not going to look like we're winning. I'm going to be handed over. I'm going to be. And that's why you have a choice. We're in John 19. You could go through, you know, the facts that there's actually Roman documentation from a historical viewpoint, even Josephus, that, oh, there was a guy here named Jesus and Pilate handed him over and killed him. And that's fascinating to people out there because they think, oh, I thought the Bible was just some kind of made up story. No, there's historical documentation backs it up. Yeah. But we tend to focus on that, on the story, rather than these kind of things that set it up that he's like, there's a mindset that you have to get into through faith where you're literally believing beyond what the earth has to offer.

[Podcast Host]

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[Al Robertson]

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[James Robertson]

He does it there with multiple miracles. Healing a boy that has these seizures, paying taxes with a coin that he provided in a fish's mouth down somewhere. And he's doing it all by telling an illustration about, yeah, we're the children.

[Al Robertson]

But he's also teaching us a principle that even though we understand larger than the world, we still have to live in this world. Trust me. Every April 15th, I have the same feeling like, ugh, because I hate sending that money to the government. But you know what I do to not offend them because I'm a US citizen, I do it. The reason I don't like to do it is because I would rather give that money away as a kingdom member to people that I know could benefit and expand the gospel. But you know what? Jesus showed me the example. You live here. This is where we're at. We're impacting people because we're already part of the kingdom while we're here. Because that's what he was trying to show them. This is what it's about. I want to mention this side because we're in our last segment that you talked about being upset and how this affected you reading this text this time. And, you know, every time you go in and kind of do a deep dive into the story, especially the scourging and then the crucifixion of Jesus, because it's so brutal. But I want to say this because this particular time I mentioned this a while back, I was very angry reading this. I took it this time, this particular study, because we've been studying John, and I was angry because of these religious leaders that were so smug and just full of pompous piety, and they just rejected him. And, like, these are his people. Like, these are the nation of Israel.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

They had the books and the law.

[Al Robertson]

They had it all, and they just ignored it. And they played it politically to the. I didn't even give Pilate a pass more than I give those guys a pass. And he said, they're the ones that are guilty of a greater sin. They should know more.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

Yeah, I got a question about that because, you know, was it because of Pilate was afraid because he said, hey, I find no fault with this man.

[Al Robertson]

Definitely. In fact, it says it. It says it well.

[James Robertson]

And his wife was having these mysterious dreams and saying, hey, you better. You better get away from.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

Don't mess with this man.

[Al Robertson]

Here's the verse John 19:8. Because they said, we have a law. And we spent a whole podcast on this one. And according to that law, he must die because he claimed to be the Son of God. So this is what the Jews tell Pilate. And listen to what the pilot was just talking. When Pilate heard this, he was even more afraid. So that tells you right there, he had already been afraid.

[James Robertson]

Well, they took a law about you couldn't blaspheme God, and then they interpreted it to say, well, he's blaspheming God because he claimed to be the Son of God.

[Al Robertson]

And they never considered, what if he.

[James Robertson]

Is God, which basically all he did.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

That's the part that makes me angry.

[Al Robertson]

Hey, you know, me too.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

It's okay, is they had the prophecies about the Messiah coming.

And yet he arrives and then.

The thought, don't even hit it, he's here.

[James Robertson]

Well, he was from the wrong neighborhood. He didn't have any credentials.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

It's the thing about, hey, they had a different perspective of what's going to happen.

[Al Robertson]

A narrative.

[Philip McMillan]

You can't read Isaiah without knowing who Christ is afterward. I mean, you know, oh, we have.

[Al Robertson]

Done so many Old Testament references into this study because it Is everywhere. All over the prophets.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

I'm like you. There's a lot of times that I've got so mad. But then I look at this. Okay. The evil and the barbarian barbaric ism.

[Al Robertson]

Yeah.

[James Robertson]

I think you just invented a new word.

[Philip McMillan]

Barbaric.

[James Robertson]

I like it. We got how.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

Evil is. The way I look at. It's cruel what they've done to him. Cruel.

[Al Robertson]

Very cruel.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

Okay. And like, here's the thing that gets me though.

Jesus knew what he was going to have to go through.

[Al Robertson]

Yeah. And he still is there. 53.

[Philip McMillan]

Yeah.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

He still bore up through it. And when he was hanging on the cross, dying, you know, he's forgiven Father. They don't know what they're doing.

[James Robertson]

Yeah. Which is a key moment.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

Well, not only that, but I just. Look.

You have no idea the power that Christ had.

[Al Robertson]

Yeah.

[James Robertson]

I can put a coin in a fish's mouth, he can then catch.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

I'm just saying. Oh, my goodness.

[Philip McMillan]

You know.

[James Robertson]

But you see it today.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

Have any idea what you're fooling with? Yeah.

[Philip McMillan]

No. He could have done them in right there.

[James Robertson]

So.

[Philip McMillan]

But he thought about us and this is the whole reason. Well, that's why that word became flesh, was to do what he was doing.

[Al Robertson]

And that's why he told the apostles.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

That's why.

I'm like James, he said he hang up on stuff. I'm hung up on the man Christ Jesus. Yeah.

[James Robertson]

That's a good thing to be hung up on. Creator of the universe becoming a man.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

And I said, you don't even know.

[James Robertson]

He could have smoked you and still can't.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

What's just one thought and you're burnt to a crisp.

[James Robertson]

Yeah. Which is why the Old Testament is filled with a lot of that going on.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

He goes the other way.

[Al Robertson]

Remember what he said about the soldiers? Right in Father, forgive them. They don't even know what they're doing. It's one of the things he said from the cross. You think about the statements he made at the cross, how much it was focused on everything but him. I mean, he was talking about Mary and John. He was talking about the criminal. He was talking about the Roman soldier. I mean, he's looking from this vantage point of being nailed to this cross, knowing he's about to die. And his thoughts, even at the very end about everybody else.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

Yeah.

[James Robertson]

But it's the same power going on today. Look at any government. Look at our government. It's this cancel. We, you know, we invented a word like. Well, this was. This is the cancel culture that Jesus was a threat they counseled him. We. We even use the same dialogue even in politics. They're like, oh, we crucified him. He's never coming back over there.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

I need a little knowledge here, okay? Because when Jesus is piling his question in Jesus, and Jesus tells him, hey, you know, no.

I wouldn't even be here unless someone else had allowed it, had allowed you to even be asking me these questions.

[Al Robertson]

Right. Because. Because Pilate thought he was in charge of the situation, but he really.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

But he was.

[Al Robertson]

Yeah.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

Okay. And I look and I say, well, wait a minute. Is he referring back to. The Father has done this.

[James Robertson]

I think he was saying, the Father set up this government establishment that you claim to be charged. Yeah.

[Al Robertson]

In charge of.

[James Robertson]

He set this all.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

Okay, because I was.

[James Robertson]

Imagine a world.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

Yeah. Because he said he's the one with the more sin.

[Al Robertson]

Because Paul affirms that in Romans 13 when he says God establishes earthly authority. I mean, it's like he puts them in. He puts them in places. And so we look at that, and that bothers us because we're like, well, how could this be this terrible regime? But if you read the Old Testament, God has used his will throughout evil leaders for many, many, many generations.

[James Robertson]

Well, even our country, you know, a couple thousand years later. I mean, if you listen to these historians, I mean, we crafted our constitution, our Bill of Rights, all on basically what happened in Sparta, Athens and Rome.

[Al Robertson]

That's right.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

I mean, here's what I thought. This whole three or four days, I'm watching Fox with all these protests.

[James Robertson]

What are they protesting? I had no.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

They don't know.

That's what gets. They don't know is just like in the days of the Romans. They don't know either.

[Al Robertson]

Well, the latest one is no king. And we're like, yeah, we're all. We're with you.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

Yeah.

[Al Robertson]

We're not for kings either.

[James Robertson]

I mean, I don't know why we have a king.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

We never had a king unless you had Jesus.

[Al Robertson]

Jesus is the king.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

Right. But I. I look at this and I just said, oh, you know, the human race is never going to learn.

[James Robertson]

It really isn't. That's why we got a job job today.

[Al Robertson]

All right. We're out of time, man. That went.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

Wow.

[Al Robertson]

Yeah, that's.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

Well, I knew I was gonna have fun and learn a lot.

[Philip McMillan]

Oh, my goodness.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

Awesome.

[Philip McMillan]

I thought we were fixing it to get really get started.

[S.I. (Seth) Butler]

Yeah. It's over by the time we get cranked up. We gotta shut it off.

[Al Robertson]

It's always good to have you boys.

[Philip McMillan]

Thank you all for having us on here, guys.

[Al Robertson]

Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcast and don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.