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Unashamed with the Robertson Family
Ep 1222 | Jase Challenges Science on the Afterlife & Did Jesus Really Go to Hell?
00:57:08
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Commercial Narrator
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At New Balance. We believe if you run, you're a.
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Zach
Runner.
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Commercial Narrator
However you choose to do it.
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You'Re free to discover your way. And that's what running is all about. Run your way. @newbalance.com.
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Jason
I am unashamed. What about you?
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Host (possibly named Zach or Jason's co-host)
Welcome back to Unashamed.
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From your perspective, there's been, I don't know how many days in between podcasts from ours. It's been five minutes.
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Jason
Five minutes.
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Host (possibly named Zach or Jason's co-host)
So we're just want to pick right out where we left off because we're in some really good stuff.
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Jason
If you didn't listen to the podcast where we kind of introduced the law of thermodynamics and I didn't even bring up quantum physics, but I don't know.
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Host (possibly named Zach or Jason's co-host)
Jason's getting diving into some deep stuff. Zach, he's in your world today.
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Jason
Look, I spent an hour looking up the definition of quantum physics and it seemed like a lot of people trying to figure out what God created. So I'm in the quantum physician camp who set all this into motion. And my point was about reading about the law of thermodynamics. It's like to them, you can't create matter or destroy it. And even in death, it's like, well, there's energy. It just goes into the surroundings as heat and your body decomposes. But it doesn't really leave, it just changes.
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Host (possibly named Zach or Jason's co-host)
Well, it kind of. And by the way, so we're in John 19, the last few verses where Jesus is taken off the cross and put into a tomb. So that's where we're at in terms of our narrative. Yeah, but we're talking about this in a much bigger picture. And one of the things, Jason, when you read the AI in the last podcast that I was thinking when you were reading it is, is that it. It misses a component. I mean, like, yes, those things are true from the God perspective, but it misses this whole component of human existence that, you know, where is the, where's the, the moral clause, the, the love of music, the talents and abilities, you.
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Jason
Know what I'm saying?
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Host (possibly named Zach or Jason's co-host)
If it's just about the mass and the energy, where's that other stuff that really makes being a person so valuable. There's a bigger component here than just that.
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Jason
So we read on the last podcast, Genesis 1, that humans are a combination of dust or dirt and divine breath.
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Host (possibly named Zach or Jason's co-host)
He breathed Genesis 2, 6 and 7.
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Jason
Yep. And even other. Some obscure passages. You remember at first, people were living to 8, 900 years. And there's this obscure passage where he's like, my spirit will not contend with man forever. His days will be 70 years, basically, is what it says. So somehow you're like, well, what does that mean? Well, he just made it where we couldn't live as long, but he's in control of that. In him we live and move and have our being. And Acts 17 is. And even in Colossians 1 where it's like in Jesus, things hold together. I mean, he's holding things together.
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Host (possibly named Zach or Jason's co-host)
I wanted to mention one thing when you said that. I forgot to mention the last podcast when you said that about him breathing in that Genesis 2 picture. You see throughout the Old Testament, different times where the Spirit of God would come upon somebody, David or a different person, or Samson, different people that were doing God's will and work. But the only time you really see that same picture that we saw from Genesis 2 is when Jesus has resurrected, which we'll get to a little bit later, and he's there with his disciples and he's about to leave. And remember, he breathed his spirit into them. I mean, there's the only time you ever see that, like, physical picture of this happening. And this was done by a physical Jesus here on earth. It's pretty amazing when you think about it.
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Jason
Well, and that's why I wanted to set up for what we're going to talk about, because everybody wants to kind of talk about the controversial issues and what happens when we die. And are they looking down on us right now?
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Host (possibly named Zach or Jason's co-host)
Is there an in between place or.
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Jason
Did Jesus go to hell? You know, there's a couple of passages that are discussed there. So we're just setting the foundation. And one of them, I think you got to realize is when you go Back to Genesis 1:1, in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. That's where they're started. And you're seeing in the garden.
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The heavenly God space. Because heaven is used in two different ways in the Bible. Either the sky just up there with the stars, or where God is. And he created the earth. Well, in the beginning, God, heaven was with earth, with humans. He created the humans. He was there. It was. What is the word, Zach? Interlocked or interwoven and so you see glimpses of that all through the Bible, and you have death as an invader. It was not meant to be that way from the beginning, or it didn't start that way. But then death is introduced because of what happened. The decision that was made not to trust God, and that gets into a whole nother rabbit hole that we won't get into this choosing the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, which is why the evil one, the spirit of evil, was like, oh, when you eat of that, God knows that you'll be like him. But they already were like him. He was deceiving them. They were made in the image of God. But he was like, oh, there's something more you can determine for yourselves, good and evil, which they should have just trusted God because they had the gift of eternal life, which was a tree that they could participate in. When they sinned, they were removed from the tree. Death was introduced into this world. And so that's what it was.
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Zach
It was a tree, but it. But it was a relational.
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Unbridled relational connection with. With the source of life. So it wasn't. It was a quality of.
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Jason
Better answer, Zach. Yeah, better answer for that. What it was. So I wanted just to mention a couple of verses. When the book of Hebrews, when he talks about. In the past, he spoke in various ways, but now he has spoken to us by his son. This is chapter one in verse two and three, whom he appointed heir of all things. But verse three says, the sun is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, he became a man. Hebrews 2 talks about that, and it goes into detail about why he became a human God as a human. He says that in verse 14, he says, since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity. So that by his death, which is where we're at in John 19, he might destroy him who holds the power of death. That is the devil. That's why we went back to Genesis 3 and saw where all this began. And we're not making this connection up. This is a narrative woven from Genesis to Revelation about heaven and earth coming together. So when you go back to where we're reading in John, just to remind you that in John chapter two, this was profound because he goes to the temple and clears it out in verse 12. We've gone through this, but it deserves to be brought back up as a foundational here, because what was the Temple. How was the Temple at Jerusalem functioning in the Jewish world? It was the place where people met with God, we are back to this heaven and earth coming together. There were all sorts of rules about that engagement. So when you get to chapter two and verse.
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18:18, the Jews demanded of him, what miraculous sign can you show us to prove your authority to do all that? I mean, he had just cleared out the temple. They were like, who do you think you are? Jesus answered them, pay careful attention to this. Destroy this temple and I will raise it again in three days. So we're going back to the prediction of where we are now. In John 19, the Jews replied, It has taken 46 years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days. But the temple he had spoken of was his body, his human body.
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Zach
Let's think about. Just think about that for one second, though. Just the illegitimacy of their thought process. Even in that statement. It's taken us 46 years to build this temple. They. So that's not true. Like, they're. They're so focused. So what if you go back and read this? They didn't build the temple. The temple was built by Cyrus, and they were under that. What was the Herodian expansion? But. But it is interesting to me that it seems like they're focused clearly on their own. What they actually built themselves, which is kind of goes back to the garden. That was the real lie, that you can actually be God. You can build this thing, that you're the builder, not him. So you see that even in their own argument with Jesus, didn't understand what he's saying anyways. But you see, in their own thing, they're not even under their own system.
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Host (possibly named Zach or Jason's co-host)
And it also, that wasn't the first temple. I mean, Solomon had built the first temple even before them. And before that, it was the tabernacle in the wilderness.
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Jason
Yeah. So then it says, after he was raised from the dead, verse 22 of chapter 2, his disciples recalled what he had said then. They believed the scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken. So now look at John 5, because he had already introduced the same principle, but now we're making sense of it. So in John 5, 19, and you remember, this all happened because he gave a glimpse of heaven on earth by healing a guy impossibly that no surgeon could have done. He just, bam. But he did it on the Sabbath, right? And so the Jews, what are you doing? And look, he goes through the same line of thought, verse 16. So because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, healing a guy, showing heaven on earth, which is what he prayed for in Matthew 6, that his kingdom would come on earth as it is in heaven. Jesus said to them, my Father is always at his work to do this to this very day. And I too am working. They're like, God's working on the Sabbath. This can't be true. And you're claiming to be his son. For this reason, the Jews tried all the harder to kill him, which they eventually pulled it off. Where we're at in John 19.
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So because he was making himself equal with God, that's verse 18. So verse 19. Watch where he goes with this. Jesus gave them this answer. And this is very dense conversation. But just think about it on where we're at now in John 19, I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself. He can only do what he sees his Father doing. Because whatever the Father does, the Son also does. And here's A key verse. For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Which this makes more sense. What? I skipped over John 3:16. But God sent his Son into the world to save it. For God so loved the world. So then it says, yes, to your amazement, he will show him even greater things. For just as the Father now look where he goes with this, raises the dead and gives them life, and even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son. So that's all these verses where Jesus says, oh, God has given me people into my hands. This is where it comes from. He's given him the authority that God has the Father up until this time to make the call on that to give life and death, right?
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So then it says that all may honor the Son, just as the honor the Father. And I love this Last sentence of 23 5. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him. I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. So this is his authority in detail and will not be condemned. He has crossed over from death to life. I tell you the truth. A time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son to have life in himself. So God has given over the authority to Jesus of life and death, and he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of man. Then he says it again, do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out. Those who have done will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned. By myself I can do nothing. I judge only as I hear. And my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself, but to him who sent me. But in this narrative you kind of have this where what Zach deemed. I don't know where he got it from. This now not yet.
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Heaven on earth, reality of resurrection. And before this blows your mind later on in other passages, you clearly see this as happening now in what Jesus was predicting. Think when Ephesians 2 and Romans 6, if you read that and be fair with it, and I'll just give you an example, let's take the Romans 6, where you can have what Jesus is bringing is a resurrection, a death, and a resurrection as a present reality. And you say what do you mean by that on the planet right now, heaven and earth coming together as a present reality through Jesus? Look at Romans 6. He asked a question. He's talking about sin and understanding God's grace. And there was a conclusion being reached that, well, if God has forgiven us of our sins, well, let's just go out there and do a bunch of sin.
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Host (possibly named Zach or Jason's co-host)
And if grace is bigger than sin, let's just put it to the test.
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Jason
So he asked that question, what shall we say then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means. Now look, we've read this verse so many times that we miss the reality of it because. What's this next phrase? We died to sin. How can we live in it any longer? What do you mean? He's talking to people who are alive. How can you die and be alive? He says we died to sin. Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death. But watch. We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that just as Christ was raised from the dead, we too may live a new life.
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It's a present reality. He does the same thing more graphically in Ephesians. And this really blows your mind. Your head feels like it's going to explode. In Ephesians 2, he talks about the evil one. And then we were living in captivity. This is Ephesians 2:2. Well, let me just read it. Two. One, you were dead in your transgressions and sins in which you used to live, when you follow the ways of the world and the ruler of the kingdom of air. Remember in Hebrews 2 we just read that that's why Jesus came, was to destroy his power.
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Host (possibly named Zach or Jason's co-host)
The Spirit, who is the same one who was there in the garden, Same.
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Jason
One who was there in the garden. The Spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of the sinful nature and following his desires. We were by nature objects of wrath. But because of his great love for us, God who is rich in mercy, look at these next three words made us alive. Well, when did we die? What's he talking about? So now you're realizing that when Adam and Eve sinned, that death showed itself in many ways in relationships. All of a sudden, Adam and Eve, they were sewing fig leaves together. They felt shame. It not only affected their relationship, but their relationship with God and their connection to God, spiritually and ultimately physically. Because once they left the garden. They died physically. Just think of all the things that happened. But now God made us alive with Christ even when we were dead. In transgressions, it is by grace you've been saved. Here's the key. And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus. It's so funny to listen to pastors try to explain this as a future occurrence.
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Host (possibly named Zach or Jason's co-host)
It's very present tense.
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Jason
It's a very present reality because your Savior is at the right hand of God and you're there with him even though you're on earth representing him.
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Host (possibly named Zach or Jason's co-host)
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Jason
It just really makes you value life.
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Host (possibly named Zach or Jason's co-host)
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Zach
I think that's the. That when you go back to John 2, you see this in John 2, going back to this whole temple conversation. Because if you think about the temple, this is a little history of the temple. You have the original. Well, you had the tabernacle first that the Moses built. And when Moses constructed the tabernacle, or he didn't actually construct it under his command, they. The way it was set up, once you go into like the. The holy of holy place, which is where the presence of God would be like, this is where if you ever want to be with God and you Want, if you ever want to be seated with God, then the question you have to ask yourself is, where is God seated? And in the tabernacle, God was seated on top of a seat called the mercy seat, and it was behind the holy of holies. And so they would make the sacrifice of the blood of goats and bulls, they would put it on the, on the altar, and then they would be able to go into the holy of holies once a year. High Priest Only then when they build the, the actual temple itself, which was a, a permanent structure of the tabernacle, the tabernacle is just mobile. Well, then Solomon builds the actual temple. But same basic premise. If you want to see where God's going to dwell, he's actually going to, he's going to be behind the holy of holies, behind the veil, behind the curtain. Where is he going to be seated? Because I want to be seated with him. Where's he going to be seated? He's going to be seated on the mercy seat. What's the mercy seat? On top of the Ark of the Covenant. So then what happened is this is like a big, big issue. If, if you just really run the history of Israel out, a big, big issue that they had was that once the Babylonian invasion occurred, they destroyed the temple and guess what else they, they took and they'd never be seen again. The Ark of the Covenant, which had the mercy seat on which God sat. So by the time you get to this Herodian expans.
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That'S, that's the second temple that was built by Cyrus, who was, he was Persian, right? And so Cyrus builds that, that second temple, but there was no Ark of the Covenant left. That was gone, never to be seen again. There was no mercy seat. There was no place for God would sit. So there's, you don't really see in scripture the presence of God filling the temple like it did in solid, like he did in Solomon's temple. You never see that again. So when you get to John 2, they should have been like, man, we got an issue anyways, because the problem is we don't even have the Ark of the Covenant back there. That room is empty. You go behind that curtain. Guess what's back there? Nothing. There's nothing back there. So when Jesus is saying, re destroy this temple and rebuild it in three days, talking about his body, and they're so focused on not only the second temple, they're focused on the expansion of the second temple behind the curtain to which there is nothing. There's no, there's no, there's no mercy seat. There's no place for God to sit. Jesus then becomes that. And so this is so key that without Jesus dying, then there is no, like, there is no place, there's no, there's no connection for us to have with God. And I think that's the key point of it, why he says that at the beginning of John chapter 2 and to your point, when we're now in John 19 about the death of Christ, he is literally talking about the destruction of the temple, that he's going to raise up his own body in three days.
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Jason
Exactly. So I want to read one more and then we can get into all the controversial issues and hopefully give you an answer. So the next one I'll read is in Romans 8. And you see the same concept of now and not yet in Romans 8. And I encourage you to read the whole thing. But I'm just going to pick out the two paragraphs that address the issue at hand. So verse nine of Romans chapter eight. You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature, but by the spirit. He's talking about there's no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, Verse one. So there's your phrase where heaven and earth come together in your life is being in Jesus. And he provided that, just like Zach so eloquently explained on a cross and through an empty tomb and given us his Spirit. So verse nine, if the Spirit of God lives in you, so you, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature, but by the spirit. If the Spirit of God lives in you, that's. That's just, just think about that. And if anyone does not have the spirit of Christ, he doesn't belong to Christ. Because immediately we want to say, what about that? We want to get into the heaven and hell.
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Kind of dynamic of. That's what the Bible is about. Most churches do that, but it's just simply not true. The Bible is about heaven and earth coming back together. Hell is a part of that because people who, what about people who say no to Jesus? Well, what happens? Well, they're separated from Christ. And if they live their whole life in that mode, well, it's the same concept as the now and not yet. You experience hell on earth and hell forever. And watch how this works. It says, but if Christ is in you now, watch this. Your body is dead.
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People are like, what does that mean? Oh, you're a zombie, you're dead. You're like, oh, no, I'm working out, I'm eating right. You're a healthy dead. But Your body is dead, dead because of sin. It's coming to all. Yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. But here's the key verse before you get all morbid and depressed about verse 10. If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his spirit who lives in you.
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Host (possibly named Zach or Jason's co-host)
That's where AI missed it, right there.
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Jason
They didn't know that was possible.
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And he goes on to say, not only because if you have a new body, what do you need? Well, you got to have a place to live. And most people say, oh, well, we're going to live in heaven together. Well, I'm not sure why they think Paul wrote Romans 8:18. Because then he starts talking about the creation waits. This is verse 19.
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In eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. Well, now we're talking about the not yet part. For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, in hope that the creation itself will be liberated. From what? The same problem humans have. Bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God. And I'll Skip down to 23. Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the first fruits of the spirit, that's now grown inwardly, that's now as we wait for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. Whether you're in a dustbuster or whether you got hit by a nuclear warhead. Like, you were right at the tip of that.
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Host (possibly named Zach or Jason's co-host)
Yeah.
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Jason
And just were. You were incinerated. We've already said, even science agrees with us on this. Oh, it can't be created or destroyed. It just takes on another form.
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Zach
Well, the question I got.
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Jason
Where do you think they got that from? Where did that come from?
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Zach
Right there. Romans. Right there in Romans. I mean, you read what you just read. Think about what he just said there. Liberated from its bondage to decay. Now, that is a lot. That is the second law of thermodynamics. That if you read the second law of thermodynamics is it basically says that things are in a bondage to decay. I mean, that's almost verbatim what it says. It says that things have the entropy, things decay over time. So this is a law of the universe that Paul's speaking of that, that somehow he knew right through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. And we also know that it's not a good thing that we need to be liberated from that. I was thinking about this, though, this week, because I'M preaching on presence on Sunday at our church and I was really trying to think about this idea of presence and I think I've come up with what I want to say. This doesn't apply to God because God is spirit and it doesn't apply to him. But if you think about what it means to be human, as we've said, already said many times in this podcast, humans have bodies with spirits. So humans are the connection of the physical and spiritual world. We're the intersection. We're the temple where, where the vortex. We're, we're where it happens is it is in the body of humans. And so what that means is when it comes to us, presence requires persons and it requires place. Yeah, like, like they're, that we're connected with each other, we're connected with God and that happens in a place I, I, we can't like, we can't get away from, that we don't exist. We can't, Bill Smith would say it like this, that we, we can't exist. Eternally separated from the body. Now we will be separated and we will exist in that state for a time period. But that is not who we are.
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Jason
So here's your options. Look, now I'm going to give you this off the top of my head, so you. Because now we're going to get into maybe some of the more controversial things. But so I'm going to do this off the top of my head. So I'm saying that as a caveat if I misspeak. But as far as I know, the death was referred to in Hebrew in the Old Testament as she. Oh, the grave.
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Host (possibly named Zach or Jason's co-host)
Yeah.
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Jason
In the New Testament is Hades. So you have.
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Host (possibly named Zach or Jason's co-host)
This is a Greek thought for the same idea.
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Jason
Same idea. Now, to my knowledge, hell's never mentioned in the Old Testament. It's not in there. You're like, wait, what?
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Host (possibly named Zach or Jason's co-host)
No.
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Jason
So in the New Testament, it's mentioned, but it's the Greek word gehenna, which I don't know how to pronounce that in the Hebrew version, but you may know more about this. But that was a place, Valley of. What was it called?
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Host (possibly named Zach or Jason's co-host)
Valley of Valley.
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Zach
Yeah, it was Valley of.
- [34:39]
Jason
And it was basically a fire pit slash trash dump. And that's kind of the word for hell.
- [34:47]
Host (possibly named Zach or Jason's co-host)
That's where cursed things were taken. Dead bodies that were outside of consecration. It was a dump of dumping ground.
- [34:56]
Jason
So what's fascinating is. So there's your two options as far as the words for grave and hell. But then also you see it depicted as in the New Testament as either if you're in Christ and it's only mentioned three times, where when you die, you go to be with Christ three times. You have the thief on the cross, he says, today you'll be with me in paradise. You have the second Corinthians 5, when he's kind of wrestling with I'm a tent, but I'd rather be home with the Lord. And I think Philippians one is the other. He's like, I'm in. I'm stressed out. Do I want to go home and be with the Lord, or do I want to remain here with you in this prison?
- [35:44]
Host (possibly named Zach or Jason's co-host)
Stay in the body.
- [35:45]
Jason
Yeah, stay in the body. So you have that thought, which I think is comforting, but everybody who dies goes to the grave. So your body.
- [35:58]
Decomposes it. And so your spirit goes to be with the Lord. And you're like, what about the spirits of people outside of the Lord? So you have the. The chapter in Luke 16 where Jesus gives the analogy of which he uses grave there, not hell, so, but of the rich man and Lazarus. So you kind of see that going on. Now, is that a literal interpretation or was he just giving you a picture of the afterlife? Parable kind of looks like it's using real people given a picture of the afterlife. So. And hell's only mentioned if you take out the different Gospel accounts where he brings up hell, which is this word for Gehenna, only four times in the New Testament. Now the other times it's imagery. So you got lake of fire, which is in Revelation.
- [37:02]
And you have darkness, gnashing of teeth, all this imagery, these kinds of things. You have the second Thessalonians one where it says you're shut out from the presence of the Lord and it deems there everlasting destruction. So people say, well, does that mean I'm destroyed forever or I'm forever destroyed? Well, both are bad. So having said all that.
- [37:28]
Host (possibly named Zach or Jason's co-host)
Where did.
- [37:28]
Jason
Jesus go during this three day period? He experienced death for us, which really, it wasn't a three day period.
- [37:37]
Host (possibly named Zach or Jason's co-host)
We've actually, yeah, it's actually closer to just a few hours.
- [37:41]
Jason
You only have two passages where I'm giving you all of the information about the two places you can go, if you want to call them places, giving you all the information about it's either hell or you're with the Lord. Which is fascinating to me because I've already said from the other verses, we're in heaven now as believers. Now I know that's, you know, that may cause you some uncomfortability, you don't hear that, but you read it for yourself. And.
- [38:19]
It seems to me that's a present reality. Now I just picked out two verses, Romans 6, Ephesians 2, there are many others.
- [38:26]
Host (possibly named Zach or Jason's co-host)
He said, you seated us in the heavenly realms.
- [38:29]
Jason
I mean, and you say, well, what about the second one? Because even in John 5, that second part, that was this, that is the not yet part. So what happens there?
- [38:41]
How does that go down? I, I, I'm a new heaven and new earth. I believe God in Revelation 21 and chapter 22 is coming down. When Jesus comes down in 1 Thessalonians 4, I believe we're meeting him in the air, kind of a welcoming, and the earth is made new, whatever that means. And heaven and earth will be together again.
- [39:06]
Host (possibly named Zach or Jason's co-host)
Dead in Christ will rise first. After that we are still alive or left, caught up together with them, the resurrected in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. So we will be with the Lord forever.
- [39:16]
Kim Bright
Yeah.
- [39:17]
Jason
So what I'm saying is the idea of us being separated from our body and having some existence in heaven in a spiritual non body state where the earth is not involved. I just believe. What?
- [39:34]
Host (possibly named Zach or Jason's co-host)
It's not biblical.
- [39:34]
Jason
I believe it was made up. I mean, I just think it was made up.
- [39:38]
Zach
What part was made up? Say that again.
- [39:40]
Host (possibly named Zach or Jason's co-host)
Where. That you can somehow be apart from your body in eternity with Christ.
- [39:45]
Jason
Yeah, well, we're going like that.
- [39:47]
Zach
Not forever, not forever, but I would say that I think, I mean, I am confident in the fact that. I think that those who have gone on, like Phil, like my mom, that they are in a better state currently.
- [39:58]
Jason
Well, they're with the Lord. That was the point.
- [40:00]
Zach
They're with the Lord.
- [40:01]
Jason
You may not have been listening during that time, the three times that's referenced what happens when you die? And my point was you're with the Lord.
- [40:11]
Zach
Yeah, yeah. And they're. And they're acting as a great cloud of witnesses. I do believe that they are.
- [40:16]
Jason
That's another one. That's a good one.
- [40:19]
Host (possibly named Zach or Jason's co-host)
And there are some examples where the spirits of those gone past broke back through. We did One Zach in First Samuel.
- [40:29]
Jason
Hebrews 12 has that reference. Remember, it said, where you've come, it said, you've come to the spirits of righteous men made perfect.
- [40:38]
Zach
And I think it's key, I think you mentioned this on the. The first Peter passage, that when Christ dies, He. He does go into Sheol or, or like the realm of the dead. But, but I would probably agree he doesn't go into. To Gehenna, that place of torment that Christ goes in. Because. Because when Christ goes, When he dies, we. We see that he has a purpose in his death when he. When he does go there to preach to those who are in prison. So he's not there suffering, he's in there preaching. And, and it's a proclamation of a victory.
- [41:11]
Jason
That's the first Peter 3 passage, if you want to go look that up. We talked about that before we started. It was like, well, did he go, you know, to hell?
- [41:20]
Host (possibly named Zach or Jason's co-host)
I'm not so sure he really went there. But if he did, I agree with Zach that it was with a purpose to proclaim.
- [41:27]
Zach
But I want to. I know we're going to run out of time here, but. Because we have a guest coming on. But I did want to give this quote from one of my favorite books, the Great Divorce, because it helps me understand this is not a theological like dissertation or anything. It's just more of a meta view of understanding the nature of Hell versus heaven in more of an eternal state. And if you read that book, you get the picture of, like, it's how you perceive the world around you in some respect. And he says that hell is a state of mind. You never said a truer word. And every state of mind left to itself, every shutting up of the creature within the dungeon of its own mind, is, in the end, hell. So you get this picture of hell when you think about separation from God. What does that really mean? I'm separated from God's revelation of true life, and I'm shut up inside myself. You kind of get that pass in that Romans passage where he defines wrath of God being left to your own vices. But listen to how he contrasts that with. With the concept of heaven. But heaven is not a state of mind. Heaven is reality itself. All that is fully real is heavenly. For all that can be shaken will be shaken. This is the Hebrew passage, right? And the. And only the unshakable remains. That's why the kingdom of God is unshakable. When. When everything shakes, all the fake stuff falls off. But if you're in hell, it doesn't fall off of you. You actually. You're in the vortex of things that are shakable, that are fake and not real, and you're left to your own vices. Heaven is to actually be in reality and to experience the presence and the fullness of the God who made you. But you can only experience that if you're in reality.
- [43:12]
Host (possibly named Zach or Jason's co-host)
So that really describes Hebrews 12, which you mentioned, is that picture. And then even in Hebrews 13, you see the other side.
- [43:21]
Jason
I wanted to say CS Lewis would agree with that when he made this quote, Hell is God honoring human freedom apart from God. He said that in the Great Divorce.
- [43:32]
Host (possibly named Zach or Jason's co-host)
So we talk about. So I guess the takeaway. And then we'll pick this up next time because as Zach said, we have a guest is we're centering more on heaven or hell as the idea of presence or lack thereof versus place, which is where most people like to talk about. So we'll pick it up next time. Got a guest coming on, talking a little bit more about our bodies in this next segment. So we'll see you next time with this discussion on Unshamed.
- [44:00]
So Zach and I were part of PhD weight loss this past year. I've lost 73 pounds on my diet, which has been a great blessing. And the beautiful thing is you're not hungry all the time while you're doing it. It's high in protein. It's low in carb. You don't have all the workouts that you have to do. There's no risky drugs. I don't have the shots, I don't have the side effects. Just a smarter science based system that works. If you're watching this on YouTube, this is a picture of me at the beginning of the journey. And here I am now quite lean. So I've been on the program now for 45 plus weeks. So it's a great blessing. My health is better. I don't have a CPAP machine anymore. All my meds have been cut almost completely out. So it's a great thing. It's a great time to get it done. Now's a good time to start for December only. They're adding two free weeks to your program just to help you get started. Now mention the code two weeks and they'll waive your consultation fee and even cover the cost of your food. Call PhD weight loss today and breeze into 2026. Already working towards your goals. 864-644-1900 or you can visit myphdweightloss.com that's 864-644-1900. Mention code two weeks or you can visit my PhD weight loss.com if I can do it. So can you. Be sure to tell them you heard about them from the Unashamed podcast and get started today.
- [45:34]
So welcome back to Unashamed. We've been talking about the power of the body and eternal life. And we have one of our favorite guests on Kim Bright, who's the founder of Bright Core Nutrition, one of our partners that we love, getting a chance to talk to and find out what's going on in her world. And she always, Kim, you always bring something that I've never thought of before to our podcast to think about health and how to do better. And before we came on air, you were congratulating Lisa now on 41 years of life together. And the blessing of this life in Christ is that we want to try to do the best we can right while we're here.
- [46:14]
Kim Bright
Amen to that. I mean, I don't think he put us on this earth to go around being sick and flabby and overweight and, you know, it's, you know, everybody's got to get it all together and let's get healthy and, and let's live longer.
- [46:29]
Host (possibly named Zach or Jason's co-host)
Well, since you were on last time, I have been taking kimchi, which has been really great. I will say it's probably been, I don't know, it's probably been a month or so since we've had you on, so it's been good for me. It took me a while to finally get caught up in my own nutrition, to add this to my mix, and it's been really good. I want to ask you, because one of the things you sent ahead was this. You always kind of give us a thing about different factors that are out there working against us. And you sent some really intriguing things to us this time about microplastics. Can you tell the audience a little bit about that and sort of the inherent danger that's there and some of the things we can do to combat that?
- [47:11]
Kim Bright
Yeah, I think so many people aren't even aware of this because it's one of the greatest threats to our health, and it isn't something people think about, which is microplastics. And these are tiny plastic particles. They're smaller than 5 millimeters, and they form when larger plastic items are breaking down through sunlight, friction, heat. They're found everywhere, Al, in our oceans, in our rivers, the soil, the food, drinking water, even the air. They're probably there in the swamp in Louisiana, you know, amidst everything else. And because these particles are so small, they easily move through the food chain, and they're entering our bloodstream and our organs. And it's so sad, because humans are now inhaling, on average, every breath we take each day, we're inhaling 68,000 microplastic particles. And again, these microplastics are found in 94% of our water in the United States, 88% of our meat and seafood and other protein sources. And humans are ingesting six times more microplastics than they did in 1990.
- [48:18]
Host (possibly named Zach or Jason's co-host)
Yeah. And it's something that really people don't even think about. Right. I mean, you know, and yet it's out there happening. Tell some of the negative things it does to your body.
- [48:29]
Kim Bright
Well, right now, there's been studies out that show that our brains are now 99.5% human and 0.5% plants. Plastic. They found 7 grams of plastic in our brain. Now, that's the equivalent of a plastic spoon. And this is having devastating impacts on our health. And let me tell you how frightening this is, y'. All. Microplastics, when they're found in blood clots, they're linked to higher risks of heart attacks and strokes. And if microplastics are found in your veins or your arteries, you're 4.5 times more likely to die from heart attack or stroke. And microplastics, and this is important, too, because I know you're all working out on your anniversary there. Microplastics. It devastates our ability to retain muscle mass, and it even is impacting our bone density, making it weak and brittle. It goes right down into where, you know, the bottom of the bone there, and just breaks it all up. They're affecting our reproductive ability, our sperm count. So people are having less children. And here's the most frightening thing of all. They're altering our DNA. They're causing DNA damage. And this is concerning because it's the leading risk factor for diseases like cancer.
- [49:46]
Zach
How does the kimchi play into this whenever you. I've been taking it as well. But is it. I know it's associated with a lot of the inflammation in the gut, and. But how does kimchi one help counterbalance, I guess, the microplastics?
- [50:01]
Kim Bright
Well, it does is. I was so excited to find a study that was published.
- [50:08]
That showed kimchi actually degrades the most toxic chemical in plastic, which is bpa, and it's degraded by a certain strain that's found in kimchi. It has over 900 different unique strains. But this strain is found in kimchi, and it's called bacillus pumilus. And it's, as I said, uniquely found in kimchi. And that led me to look at another study that was done just recently in 2025, and it showed two other lactobacillus strains that were found in kimchi that can actually absorb the microplastics and then excrete them in vivo. That means in something living. This was bacillus parkassi and bacillus plantarum. And this is just one of many studies that are shown as the powerful benefits of kimchi, because there's so many other studies I've read out there that show it reduces obesity, it reverses hair loss, it thickens hair, it improves cardiovascular health, lowering the triglycerides, lowering blood pressure, and helping balance out blood sugar. There's just so. So many health benefits, Zach.
- [51:15]
Zach
Yeah. So interesting.
- [51:16]
Jason
Yeah.
- [51:17]
Zach
You know, I think we. Everyone wants to reach for, like, a pharmaceutical first, but I'm like, it's kind of, you know, don't start there. Start with some of these other alternative medicines that have such a long history, especially kimchi. I mean, it's been around for. I don't know. I mean, I started eating at first, Kim, but my wife, she kind of put the kibosh on me eating it in the house. So that's when I found out about. Because of the smell yeah, yeah, it does smell bad. So she's like, don't eat that in the house. And I know. So it's, it's been for me, but it, but I was getting a great health benefit from it. So once I found out. You get it, the capsule form, I was like, oh, this is, this is perfect for me. So I was already on the train before we even met, so.
- [51:57]
Kim Bright
Well, that's good to hear because you know, kimchi's been around for centuries and, and they've, they've shown over in Korea how important a food this is. It is the superfood of all fermented foods. So kimchi has been around for a long, long, long time. I mean down south here we have chow, chow and things like that and sauerkraut and pickles, but they're not the same as kimchi. They do not have over 900 different unique bacterias. They've got a lot of good healthy bacteria, but they don't have over 900 unique forms. And we've got to protect our gut because it's an onslaught of these microplastics coming at us every single day from every angle. And this is the only thing that I've read up on anywhere that can degrade these plastics that, that we're taking in. And some of them are so tiny we can't even see them. Those are called nanoplastics as well. So people don't even realize they're being inundated every day with all these microplastics.
- [52:52]
Zach
It's almost impossible to get away from it too because I mean that's in everything that we eat now. So it's like, it's not as you can't really, we've tried to find like the diet that you could eat that, but it just a full time job trying to keep up with the diet side of it. So this is, if you're like us busy, I mean you're not going to be able to do that. So this is for me, it's like a good solution.
- [53:11]
Kim Bright
Exactly. And you don't have to deal with the taste or the odor. And there's so many other benefits from it other than the microplastics. As I went over, I mean it really does affect every single organ in our body when we're taking care of the gut and eating the kimchi. And that's why we wanted to make it easy for people, you know, to get on a daily basis. And that's why we decided let's create Kimchi one, which is a capsule, you know that you can use every single day and not have that odor or the taste, bad taste. And a lot of people out there are on low sodium diets and they can't have regular kimchi because when you make kimchi, it's loaded up with sodium or you buy it from the store. So unlike the store bought, we've, you know, we've taken most of the sodium out and it's 100% made in the USA. It's all natural, non GMO. And you guys, there's so many success stories that we've had with it. Digestion, regularity. People had problems with their immune system. And 70 to 80% of our immunity is in our gut. And these people told us, you know, they used to get sick all the time and now they're not getting sick. So the other thing too is people were just lack of energy, chronic fatigue, and they're calling us and saying, hey, I've got energy like I cannot believe. And they feel better overall.
- [54:37]
Zach
Well, you know, go ahead.
- [54:39]
Host (possibly named Zach or Jason's co-host)
Now, I was just gonna say it's definitely. I've noticed everything you said in terms of regularity, immune system myself, so I can speak to this product. It's great. Kim, anytime you come on, you always give our viewers and listeners a pretty good deal. Have you got something for us today?
- [54:55]
Kim Bright
Yes, I do. We can give them 25% off order of Kimchi One using the code UNASHAMED. Go to mybrightcore.com unashamed or get up to 50% off and free shipping when you call in. That's 888-404-9677. And again, you guys know I've been an educator on this for almost 50 years now and helping so many people. I've directly, you know, counseled 15,000 people. So I want y' all to call so we can make sure that this is the right product for you and you can ask your questions. And I'll tell you what, it's Thanksgiving and we're thankful for you guys and everybody. But let's throw in for the first hundred callers that call today, a free bottle of Fortify. Now, this is incredible. This Fortify contains all nine essential amino acids to protect against cell damage, to retain muscle mass, boost hormone production, and support your brain chemistry. And normally, we're not giving away such an expensive product as a gift, but we want to support people during the holiday season. So if you can call us at 888-404-9677, get that up to 50% off, get free shipping, and get this incredible fortify to really help your body with all those things I just mentioned, as well as the kimchi, I think you'll be real happy.
- [56:28]
Host (possibly named Zach or Jason's co-host)
Well, Kim, it's always a blessing having you on our podcast. You're a great partner and a great sponsor. You're also a great living example of not only a believer in Christ, but also one who wants to steward what God has given us in a better way. So thank you for all your do all you do, and thank you for being on with us today.
- [56:45]
Kim Bright
Well, God bless y' all and healthy. Happy Holidays.
- [56:48]
Host (possibly named Zach or Jason's co-host)
Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.