Podcast Summary: Unashamed with the Robertson Family

Episode 1223 | John Luke Explores the Principle of "No Kings" & How Parenting Can Shape a Nation’s Future

Date: December 5, 2025
Hosts: Zach, Alan (Al), John, Lou
Topic: The biblical principle of “no kings,” Israel’s desire for a king, lessons from the period of the Judges, and how parenting and leadership shape nations and faith.

Episode Overview

This episode navigates the scriptural and practical implications of Israel’s demand for a king—contrary to God’s original design—and examines how leadership and parenting contribute to shaping future generations and even whole nations. The Robertsons dive deep into parallels between biblical stories and modern culture, drawing lessons for faith, family, and civic life. The tone is conversational, heartfelt, and laced with humor and relatable anecdotes.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Foundation of Classical Christian Education (00:06–02:22)

• Al shares his experience at a classical Christian school in Idaho linked to Hillsdale College, highlighting their character-building and classical Western curriculum rooted in biblical teachings.
• Zach discusses the trivium approach (grammar, logic, rhetoric) and value in building strong foundations.
  • Quote:
    “One size doesn't fit all, so it's kind of a problem and it doesn't allow to interact with the material… these courses are great what we're doing here.” – Zach (02:34)

2. Understanding Israel’s Desire for a King (04:20–09:29)

• The group traces Israel’s transition from Judges to kingship, emphasizing that God never intended Israel to have a monarch (“no kings”).
• They discuss the cyclical sin-repentance-leadership-victory-apathy pattern during the time of Judges.

Cultural Envy and the Demand for a King

• Zach draws a parallel to modern “no kings” protests in his town and ties the biblical narrative to Genesis 11–12 (Tower of Babel, rise of nations).
  • Quote:
    "The very thing that God created them for is now the thing that they don't want to do… We want to be like everybody else. So give us a king like every other nation." – Zach (08:02–09:29)
• Israel’s demand was driven by wanting to resemble other nations, not trust in God’s design.

3. The Ark, Dagon, and Superstitious Kingship (11:50–13:22)

• The Philistines capture the Ark, placing it beside their god Dagon, only to find Dagon destroyed by miraculous events—showing God’s supremacy over idols.
• John considers ancient pagan gods as more than just stone idols, potentially demonic entities.
  • Quote:
    “If you can't believe in something bigger than what you would nail to the floor, then you're really probably not looking big enough.” – Alan (13:12)

4. The Failure of Leadership—Eli and Samuel’s Children (14:38–17:53)

• Lou and John probe the phenomenon of righteous parents with unruly children and vice versa, reflecting on both biblical examples and their camp experiences.
  • Quote:
    “Sometimes it just... people just are who they are.” – John (16:57)
• Alan emphasizes personal responsibility for faith, regardless of one’s family history, and highlights breaking generational curses.

5. The Priority of Parenting Over Ministry (17:53–21:06)

• John raises the question: Did Eli care more about his ministry than his sons?
• Alan acknowledges the trap of prioritizing ministry over family, drawing from his own struggles:
  • Quote:
    “One of my biggest mistakes was that I elevated the bride of Christ, the church, above my own bride.” – Alan (20:03)
• Zach reframes the focus of spiritual stewardship, starting with oneself and rippling outward:
  • Quote:
    “Before I worry about my own house, what's going on in my own heart. And so it all starts here in us, and then it moves out.” – Zach (21:51)

6. The Ark as a Symbol—God’s Presence and the Dangers of Unholy Contact (22:54–25:45)

• Zach explains the symbolism of the Ark’s contents and contrasts Israel’s invisible God with pagan idols.
  • “God's presence alone consumes the idols of man. I mean, to me, that is one of the most powerful texts in scripture.” – Zach (25:45)
• Alan links this to Hebrews 12:28:
  • “Our God is a consuming fire…too powerful for us. Without the sacrificial acceptance through Christ, we can’t stand up in the presence of God.” – Alan (25:45–27:00)

7. Divine Judgment and Human Response (27:00–29:17)

• The plague upon the Philistines, linked to mice and possibly bubonic plague, leads them to return the Ark with golden offerings.
• Lou wonders what happened to the “five golden tumors and five golden mice,” injecting humor.

8. Israel’s Inaction and Unholy Demands (30:03–32:51)

• Zach points out Israel contributed nothing to their victory over the Philistines, yet still demanded a king.
  • Quote:
    “Not one shred of contribution from Israel...and then all of a sudden, on the backs of that, they look at the Philistines and say, ‘give us a king.’” – Zach (30:33)
• Alan reflects on the symbolism of the Ark’s contents: the rod (power), manna (provision), and tablet (protection through law), showing God's holistic presence.

9. The Irony and Warning of Israel’s Demand (32:51–33:57)

• Zach and Alan revisit how Israel, through Samuel, was warned they would become slaves to their king—effectively returning to Egypt in spirit.
  • “Yahweh, through the prophet Samuel, is pretty much like... that's not what you want.” – Zach (33:32)

10. Saul’s Selection and Human Complexity (34:11–38:59)

• Lou questions how Saul’s search for donkeys reflects indecisiveness; Alan and Zach see this as part of his reluctance and humanity, not outright weakness.
• Zach spotlights that biblical characters are multi-faceted—Saul is both good and deeply flawed.
  • Quote:
    “Being a human... we have our stuff. Even Eli... he’s submitting to God… I think that's the lesson: there’s a complexity to human nature.” – Zach (36:43)

The Difference Between David and Saul

• The group concludes David’s defining quality was his repentant heart, particularly illustrated in Psalm 51, in contrast to Saul’s lack of repentance.

11. Casting Lots and God Granting Misguided Wishes (38:59–43:10)

• Lou and John ask about the practice of “casting lots,” which Alan describes as allowing God (or gods) to decide—often used to identify guilt, but here ironically to select a leader.
• Zach references C.S. Lewis on the dangers of God letting people have their own way:
  • Quote:
    “There are two kind of people... those who say to God, ‘thy will be done,’ and those to whom God says, ‘thy will be done.’” – Zach (41:20)

12. Samuel’s Regret and the Weight of Leadership (43:18–45:31)

• Lou and Alan discuss Samuel’s attachment to Saul and feelings of responsibility. Even Samuel, like others before, fails to select a successor without bias.

13. The Corruption of Power: Saul’s Transformation (45:55–48:31)

• Zach highlights Saul’s immediate slide into tyranny, referencing his violent threats and how power can corrupt.
  • “He almost immediately shows, like, tyrannical behavior… an obsession and a demonic possession that accompanies those who would seek to contain the power that they've been given at all costs.” – Zach (46:05–48:31)
• They recommend “A Tale of Three Kings” for further perspective on leadership and power dynamics between Saul, David, and Absalom.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “If you can't believe in something bigger than what you would nail to the floor, then you're really probably not looking big enough.” – Alan (13:12)
• “Just because your parents don't have faith or you weren't raised in a Christian home… doesn't mean you have to be bound to that.” – Alan (15:02)
• “Before I worry about my own house, what's going on in my own heart. And so it all starts here in us, and then it moves out.” – Zach (21:51)
• “God's presence alone consumes the idols of man. That is one of the most powerful texts in scripture.” – Zach (25:45)
• “There are two kind of people... those who say to God, ‘thy will be done,’ and those to whom God says, ‘thy will be done.’” – Zach, referencing C.S. Lewis (41:20)
• “He almost immediately shows, like, tyrannical behavior…an obsession and a demonic possession that accompanies those who would seek to contain the power that they've been given at all costs.” – Zach (46:18)

Important Timestamps

• 00:06–02:22: Discussion of classical Christian education and character building.
• 04:20–09:29: Setup of Israel’s historical journey to kingship.
• 11:50–13:22: The Ark vs. Dagon—God’s superiority over idols.
• 14:38–17:53: Challenges of parenting and generational faith.
• 17:53–21:06: The pitfalls of prioritizing ministry over family.
• 22:54–25:45: Symbolism of the Ark and God’s unique presence.
• 30:03–32:51: Israel’s lack of contribution and demand for a king.
• 34:11–38:59: Saul’s introduction and the complexity of biblical characters.
• 38:59–43:10: The implications of casting lots.
• 45:55–48:31: Saul becomes king and the corrupting nature of power.

Conclusion

This episode masterfully connects ancient Israel’s journey to modern faith, parenting, and leadership. The Robertsons emphasize that desiring what other cultures have, ignoring God’s guidance, or prioritizing ministry over family, often leads to unintended consequences. Above all, a heart that repents—like David's—is the lasting legacy, not positions of power or national conformity.

For more in-depth biblical study, listeners are welcomed to join the free online course with Hillsdale College via unashamedforhillsdale.com.